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Spain confirmed as host of COP25 climate summit, but Madrid hotels are full and flights expensive

Saturday, November 2nd 2019 - 09:15 UTC
Full article 40 comments

Spain will host the COP25 climate summit in December, the UN said on Friday, after Chile abandoned plans to hold it due to deadly anti-government protests. Some 25,000 delegates had been expected in Chile for COP25, including teenage Swedish activist Greta Thunberg. Read full article


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  • Think

    Just heard this Argie song..., sung yesterday by tens of thousands hermanitos Shilenos on the streets of Santiago...
    Enough to make an auld man nostalgic...

    Nov 02nd, 2019 - 10:28 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Chicureo

    Madrid is a delightful and far away enough alternative venue for the friends of our endangered world. There they can easily find vegan tapa bars serving organic wine... I'm personally feeling schadenfreude that it's being hosteted in overbooked Madrid and freude it's no longer in my country. Something euphoric...

    Nov 02nd, 2019 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Ayyy..., ayyy..., ayyy...,hermanito...
    Sometimes you make me worry for mi Shile querido...
    Luckily there is another class of Thinking Shilenos near you that luuuuv Shile as much as I do...

    Nov 02nd, 2019 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    Why are hotels full in Madrid in the dreary middle of winter? Should be the ideal time for Spain to host. And Greta Thunberg is the first environmental activist I've heard of who refuses to fly. Really makes you think.

    Nov 02nd, 2019 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Madrid is pleasant this time of year. I admire anyone willing to embrace the challenge of sailing the open ocean, but it's been already explained that a beautiful sailing trip leaves a larger carbon footprint than a commercial airline flight. It's all about “ smoke and mirrors” and nothing about the reality.

    Nov 03rd, 2019 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think


    Have you ever heard of a “thing” called...: “Symbolic Value”...?

    Well..., that's just one of the “things” sweet little Greta Thunberg has plenty of...: “Symbolic Value”...

    How to explain “Symbolic Value” to a Shilean milico that has sworn to defend his Country...?
    Well..., It's like when a Richy Rich Economy Minister of a Country has invested his Monies abroad AND uses his political position to advice his Richy Rich Connationals to do the same...

    Yuppppp..., that's...: “Symbolic Value”...


    Nov 03rd, 2019 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    Think has solar panels but flies to Europe a lot. I wonder which of the two of you has the bigger carbon footprint?

    Nov 03rd, 2019 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    No doubt myself. As I've said before, I invested in solar for my home some time ago, and perimeter lighting at most the farms are supplemented by solar, but THINK lives in my opinion far more austere.

    Nov 03rd, 2019 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    If we went by national averages, then Enrique would have much the highest, but individual factors probably make more of a difference. Studies in the UK show the people most concerned about climate change have the biggest carbon footprint, which is ironic but good news for improving things.

    Nov 03rd, 2019 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    It's ironic that solar power is being more used by the largest carbon polluter in the world. This graphic is very interesting.
    Probably the best solution for my country is LNG generated power to augment our extensive wind and solar production. (Wind is fascinating, but is proving in Chile to be far more expensive than earlier forecasted.)

    Nov 03rd, 2019 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Why is that ironic? It's a good thing, isn't it?

    Your solution for Chile sounds similar to what the UK is doing, with the exception that we are supposed to be building more nuclear power plants to replace the ones that are due for decommissioning. You're not a fan of nuclear power?

    Nov 03rd, 2019 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think


    You find windenergy harnessing technology fascinating..., huhhh...?
    Have a look at this freaking good Spanish idea... you tech-nerd...
    I Think it's brillant...!

    Nov 03rd, 2019 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Chicureo

    Estimado THINK & DemonTree

    Not a fan of current conventional nuclear power in my land of earthquakes, Tsunamis and volcanos. I'm really fascinated by the vortex concept.
    (Makes me regret my country's habit of dumping millions of carbon occasionally onto the Argentine Patagonia...)

    Nov 04th, 2019 - 12:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    That's reasonable; Japan is in a similar position and all their precautions were not enough at Fukushima. Germany on the other hand is geologically stable but got paranoid and eliminated all their nuclear power stations. Now they are forced to buy extra power from France... which is mostly nuclear generated.

    Are you also against hydropower? Giant dams would seem to carry similar risks in an earthquake prone country.

    Bladeless wind turbines seem like a great improvement. Less obtrusive, no harm to wildlife, and don't leave giant, difficult-to-recycle blades to dispose of when they reach the end of their life. It's great how much the technology is coming on.

    Nov 04th, 2019 - 07:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    By the way..., Shicuréo...

    You asked the other day about the Flamengo - River match...
    Here is the opinion of River...

    Viva River...
    Viva el Colo Colo...
    Tolerancia y compasión con los rotos compatriotas de la U...

    Nov 04th, 2019 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    I couldn't find anything recent or with viable prototypes on Youtube for this vortex thingy. Not a great sign. I'd like to know how they turn the oscillation into electricity, it's hard to imagine you can get much power out of a comparatively small motion. Also the tube seems to be made out of carbon fibre, so you've still got the recycling problem. That stuff may as well be asbestos if the fibres get into the air.

    Nov 04th, 2019 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Estimado THINK
    Thanks for the game update. I checked on the vortex concept and I can't find any proposed projects for Chile. I'm still fascinated....

    Perhaps you can better explain to young DemonTree, why we both agree we're completely-completely-completely in rare agreement about being against hydroelectric projects in Patagonia.

    Nov 04th, 2019 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Sorry Shicuréo..., but..., as you know..., I try to avoid as much as possible any direct interaction with Turnips on my list..., and the young lad made it into that list recently...

    About your beloved 5 billion gigawatt ultra-high tension towers...
    I'm happy to inform you that I recently drove the full lenght of the X25 to indulge in a Chupe de Locos and some Sahne Nuss without seeing one single one...

    Want the Shilean Red Cross update now...? 25 dead civilians... ~ 3,000 injured Civilians...

    - I'we shifted from the bad Shilean Television coverage of your “troubles” to the Argie channel transmitting live from the streets among the cabrxs chicxs and the tear gas...
    - I must say..., i have NEVER IN ME WHOLE LIFE seen Argentineans been so welcomed in Shile...
    - Something is indeed changing..., hermanito...

    En el 49avo aniversario de la asunción de Allende..., lo saluda atentamente
    El Think...

    Nov 04th, 2019 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    What a joke, he spends half his time on this site replying to 'turnips'.

    Hey Mr Rude, if you want to avoid 'interaction' with me, you could try NOT butting into a conversation I'm having with someone else.

    So what is your objection to hydropower? I can see several problems with it, but I know it's very popular in South America.

    Nov 04th, 2019 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo


    Unfortunately THINK has a better perspective, but the originally proposed Chile hydroelectric projects would require the damming of some beautiful Patagonia valleys causing great ecological changes. THINK has a dim attitude about economic progress, but in this one subject I tend to agree with.

    This past 7 months, my farm's electrical cost has increased over 9%, but it still does not make economic sense to invest/convert to solar. (Even if you run on a 20 year payback on investment, it still doesn't make sense.)

    Nov 05th, 2019 - 03:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    I know how you feel. A few months ago I was reading about how the Itaipu dam between Brazil and Paraguay drowned a national park with 7 huge waterfalls, now gone forever. Not to mention the thousands of people who lost their homes when the valley was flooded. People say hydro-power is green but it still has big consequences for the environment, and it's killed a whole hell of a lot more people than nuclear power.

    I always heard solar panels would pay for themselves over 20 years in the UK (that's still longer than many people would stay in a home), but probably electricity costs more here, and a farm is very different to a house. But otherwise Chile has a big advantage, with empty deserts to put the panels in and a LOT more sun. It's got to be easier for countries with more space and lower populations to be sustainable in general.

    Also from today you need a licence to own a drone in the UK. They've got way overzealous, I bet you don't have to worry about stuff like this in Chile.

    Re Think, I used to respect him, but a few months ago he did something that really pissed me off. That wasn't the only thing, but since he showed he doesn't give a shit, I haven't exactly cared about sparing his feelings and that's probably why he's in a snit now. Sorry you ended up in the middle of it.

    Nov 05th, 2019 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Well..., well..., well...

    It's official now..., the Libertadores Cup final in Santiago has been cancelled...

    Still unoficcial though widely accepted..., the list in the hands of the UN..., the OAS and the IRC with the names of 30 “dissapeared”...

    Wonder when Shicuréo will start asking for a military international intervention in Shile against those 15 years old Venezuelan schoolgirl mercenaries destroying Shile...

    Anyhow..., not everything is bad news... The TELETON is still on...:-)))
    There the rich will have a magnific opportunity to redeem themselves and send those unruly proletarians back were they belong...

    Viva Chile..., mierda...!

    Nov 05th, 2019 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo


    I spent the day in Santiago with Madam Lafarge. Lunch with friends and the curious selection to watch the movie: The Joker
    The message was not missed how it related to Chile.

    Estimado THINK

    Glad they moved the venue as well as cancelling league weekend games.

    Nov 06th, 2019 - 03:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Estimado Shicuréo...

    You spent the day in Santiago with Madam Lafarge and did not miss the “message for Momio-Shile” after watching the movie: The Joker..., huhhhhh...?

    May I respectully ask you which of the many “messages”..., genially conveyed on screen by young actor Mr. JOAQUIN PHOENIX as the YOKER..., you didn't miss...?

    By strange “coincidence” (you may remember what Einstein didd Think about coincidences...) a similar episode to the METROPOLIS METRO scene played yesterday at Santiagos streets protagonized by ALEJANDRO GOIC..., an excellent Shileo/Swede actor...

    Anyhow..., Shicuréo...
    My respects to your long-suffering wife..., take care and please check that your fridge is one of the new models that can be opened from the inside before replicating that GENIAL scene from the film...


    Nov 06th, 2019 - 09:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Estimado THINK and DemonTree

    Watching my President announcing a subsidized minimum salary. Menwhile the truck drivers are planning to shut down the roads over tolls. Joaquin Phoenix deserves an Oscar. The movie is self explanatory and obviously leaving the cine with my wife, the fate of the Wayne family was on our minds.

    By the way, we support the limited changes of the new proposed water laws, but the radical proposals obviously we'll fight in the congress as well as in the courts.

    Enjoy your days of schadenfreude, your days lie in the next few months...


    Nov 06th, 2019 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    I'm certainly enjoying the impajaritables events..., me dear hermanito Shileno...
    But..., I am no Pato Malo nor Huemul, yá...? Mine ain't nica no “Schadenfreude”..., yá...?
    Mine is a much lesser known and/or used Teutonic word that reads...: “Verbesserungsfreude”...


    Nov 06th, 2019 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Unfortunately I haven't seen the Joker movie, we don't go to the cinema very often any more. Sounds like you enjoyed it, but isn't it a bit risky to go to Santiago with the protests going on?

    I hadn't heard they were changing the water laws, what are the radical proposals?

    And I certainly don't feel any schadenfreude. Protests are necessary sometimes but that it got to this boiling point is a sign democracy/government was not working to deliver the kind of society people want to live in. Though Chile has its own unique conditions, that's not a problem restricted to any one country.

    Nov 06th, 2019 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo


    Santiago is not dangerous, nor did we feel threatened, but it has been very disheartening to see glass fronted buildings now being rapidly covered with corrugated metal panels (backed by plywood) installed in neighborhoods that was considered safe.

    We had lunch yesterday in a packed upscale restaurant and the traffic was our only discomfort. It's interesting to note that black truffles (from Chillan) and razor perimeter wire is completely sold out. The more fortunate segment of society has not been affected, but they are now more vigilant.

    As for the Joker, my opinion is that most audiences will find it a misery to watch. I would suggest you save your movie night for a more pleasant option.

    Nov 06th, 2019 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    ***“The more fortunate segment of society has not been affected, but they are now more vigilant.”***..., you say...

    Well... I Think that the more fortunate Anglo/Shilean segment of society has been severily affected in one of their most traditional strongpoints..; their semantic haughtiness...

    Just look what's happening with Andrés Cháüi or Felipe Uár...!

    Nov 06th, 2019 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    I'm glad you weren't in any danger; seems like quite a few bystanders have been caught up in these protests, along with the police and soldiers getting trigger-happy.

    Not sure it's really a good thing the 'more fortunate' part of society is unaffected. Seems kinda like living next door to someone but being in a different world, and isn't that one of the roots of the problem? Also, why truffles?

    Re The Joker, fair enough. I find current events depressing enough without watching miserable films as well.

    Nov 06th, 2019 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Estimado THINK

    Oh I have to agree that our “haughtiness” has been deflated like a kick in the teeth. However, we will never realize the paramount narcissism of our Argenitine brothers...


    I support strict enforcement of our current laws, with a priority for municipal use for the people. I also strongly support stricter allocation and more punitive enforcement of farmers abusing, especially outright theft of allocated water rights.

    Elimination of private ownership of water through governmental “reform” is outright theft. Fortunately, the large mining companies are on our side and they have the unlimited resources to legally fight in our courts.

    The farming companies involved in theft and unscrupulous legal maneuvers to unfairly acquire water need to be severely punished. Especially in the areas north of my valley.

    Nov 06th, 2019 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think


    1) A couple more of precise delivered kicks on the criadillas would do you no harm.., I Think...

    2) As I always tell the foreigners that ask me about the plight of being Argentinean...; It's cold and lonely at the top... ;-)

    Nov 06th, 2019 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Elimination of private ownership isn't theft if the government compensates the owners in a reasonable way. If the volume of water is much reduced in some areas since the quotas were determined, or they were overestimated/sold in the first place, it might be very necessary to reduce them.

    But obviously better enforcement including fines that can't be brushed off as a business expense has to be the first priority, there's no point changing the laws without that.

    Incidentally, I've never eaten truffles. Are they worth the price?

    Nov 06th, 2019 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    For Shicuréo..., that luuuuvs the USA and has served in Watchington...:

    ***“ Elimination of private ownership of slaves through governmental “reform” is outright theft. Fortunately, the large Cotton Companies are on our Confederate side and they have the unlimited resources to militarily fight in our fields...”***
    Robert E. Lee

    Nov 06th, 2019 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo


    Well things are definitely becoming more difficult for everyone. At this moment several main highways are blocked by a truck strike to reduce tolls. Meanwhile, a major protest has erupted outside the tallest building in Latin America with is large shopping center closed.

    (My reference about truffles is because the increasing demand for luxury goods here remain.)

    Regarding THINK's comment being “at the top”... Do you know how an Argentine commits suicide? He jumps off the top of his ego...

    Nov 06th, 2019 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think


    1) Very considerate of that large shopping center placed under the tallest building in Latinamerica to provide gratuite corrugated iron and plywood sheets to protect our cabrxs chicxs from police brutality...

    2) You know perfectly that we Argies couldn't possibly commit suicide by jumping off the top of our ego...
    We would keep hovering for eternity and eventually die of boredom...;-)

    Nov 06th, 2019 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Are the tolls unreasonable or is it a case of a group jumping on the bandwagon to promote their own interests? I don't really understand why the protests are still continuing when the President already promised so many changes. Maybe people just realised they have a lot of power and want to push it as hard as they can?

    I suppose the high demand for luxury goods is a symptom of the inequality in Chile. Living in poverty is less tolerable when your neighbours are splashing the cash around...

    I heard that joke about Argentines before. Also that a good way to make money is to buy one for what he's worth, and sell him for what he thinks he's worth.

    Nov 06th, 2019 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Estimado THINK

    Looks like Piñera's offer of a 350k minimum salary is not going to calm the storm. I also predict they really have no idea on implemitation complications nor the predictable fraud. Sadly those new protective barriers are staying up for weeks to come...


    Yes, truffles are well worth trying, but it's an expensive habit. The aroma of truffles is so strong, you can place one in a plastic box with fresh eggs, and the eggs will absorb the essence. Tiny shavings of the fungus changes the flavor dramatically of many dishes.

    A school friend of Madam Lafarge is married to an apple farmer in Chillan who began the complex and mystifying cultivation of black truffles 6 years ago, and today it's become a promising side-venture, including producing truffle infused virgin olive oil. Demand far exceeds supply.

    Nov 06th, 2019 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    If they were easy to grow then everyone would do it, and probably they'd be no more an exciting flavour than chocolate is. Maybe I'll try them sometime - don't really go to that sort of restaurant. Even if I had the money, my parents didn't bring us up to spend it on unnecessary stuff and it's a hard habit to break.

    Nov 06th, 2019 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Piñera's offer of a 350k minimum salary is going to infuriate the storm further..., I Think...

    By the way..., IMHO..., wild truffles are highly overrated...
    Yessss..., some shavings on top of a good Risotto alla Milanese do give a definite olfactive Erlebniss...
    But quite honestly..., you get almost same experience by opening the gas stove for ~15 secs...

    Bloc de Foie Gras D'Oie Truffe..., on the other hand..........., yummmmmmmmy...

    Nov 06th, 2019 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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