MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Eclectic Bolsonaro declares he would no longer speak to journalists, following criticism from reporters union
A frequent and fiery critic of Brazil's media, President Jair Bolsonaro declared on Wednesday he would no longer speak to journalists. Bolsonaro made the remarks outside his official residence in Brasilia where most mornings for the past year he has fielded questions from reporters and greeted fans. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesWhat a wimp. UK tabloids are 20 times as vicious as the Brazilian media; Meghan Markle got savaged by the them for the terrible crimes of not wearing a hat and daring to touch her baby bump in public.
Jan 23rd, 2020 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse +1If Bolsonaro doesn't like it, maybe he should go hide out in Canada, too.
DT
Jan 23rd, 2020 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fact is, Bolsonaro speaks his mind...and each time he expresses a contrary opinion, or disagrees with a journalist, or is sarcastic, it's considered an “attack”...according to the 'sensitive' media ;
They can obviously dole it out, but can't take it when he fires back at them....it takes two to start a fight, and they love to provoke him, get him to speak out, to then use it against him...and chalk up one more Brownie point for themeslves.....so perhaps if he does shut up it'll be the best for all.
As to calling him a wimp, you have the right to your opinion, but try seeing it from a different point of view....for a change...WHO decided to start counting and went to the bother of concocting this silly report ? WHO divulged it until it grew whiskers ? WHO are ones feeling “offended”....on all 3 counts, the press.....So, I'd say, 'they ' are the wimps.
The press is rarely totally impartial and as they say here, loves to 'pull the embers towards their sardine'.
And to be quite frank, do they have nothing better to report on ? have they run out of matters of importance to the people and have to resort to irrelevant issues, such as worrying about what colour underwear Bolsonaro uses ?
“As to calling him a wimp...”
Jan 23rd, 2020 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I was joking, but to be honest the UK press couldn't have been more biased against Corbyn, and he's never threatened to take his ball home or put journalists in jail. It does make B seem overly sensitive. Our tabloids really are 20 times worse; they're 80% invasive and mean spirited celebrity gossip and 20% right-wing propaganda designed to benefit their billionaire owners.
The Tories hardly needed fake news in the last election with most of the media shilling for them night and day (although they created some anyway). No one cares about the truth anymore.
As for Brazil, maybe B claiming to be a 'person of peace' was meant to be ironic? It's hardly surprising the press dislike someone who threatens them with jail or taking away their licences.
PS. What colour is his underwear? According to the Daily Mail, Prince Harry wears boxers from 'upcycling' brand Sir Plus. Guess they didn’t find anything better to report on...
DT
Jan 24th, 2020 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“tabloids” , by definition, are not the best sources of information....
Bolsonaro, has his heart in the right place - most of the time - but he is susceptible to influence when it comes down to defendng his son Flavio ...which I do NOT like ; he has done two things recently which I definitely don't agree with : - one, not fighting harder to get Congress to reinstate jailtime after conviction in the 2nd lower court (which as mentioned before, is simply to allow the culprits to remain free while they appeal, and the appeals can take years to be ruled upon, in effect meaning total immunity from prosecution (murderers rapists, drug gang leaders etc, still get jailed after conviction in the 1st lower court....just as well) ; and two, his not vetoing the so-called “juiz de garantias”, instituted by STF prez Toffoli (STF legislating...again ??); Moro advised him to veto it, but B, I believe influenced by his desire to protect his son, went along with it. This 'juiz de garantias“ in practice, means that one judge supervises the investigation - obverseeing search warrants, preventive jailtime, and other bureacratic proceedings, and a different judge, not familiar with what went on under the first judge, to examine the evidence/ acquit or convict.
Brazil's judicial structure is far from being able to deal with the millions of cases, which generally speaking, will translate into even further delays, prolonging possible detention.
”It's hardly surprising the press dislike someone who threatens them with jail or taking away their licences.”
That is pure bs....first of all, besides the fact that by now they should be accustomed to his outbursts (a dog that barks doesn't bite), he does not have the power to take anyone's licence away....he may try, but between him and removing a licence is a lengthy legal process, and which would have to be very well-fundamented if not to die before it even took off. The Press likes to dramatize, but it can't be taken too seriously
No one who'd rather his son be dead than gay has his heart in the right place.
Jan 24th, 2020 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse +1The 'juiz de garantias' sounds like a good idea in principle, so what's the problem? It's still cheaper than a jury trial, which most other countries do.
“That is pure bs”
Glenn Greenwald was charged with cybercrimes 3 days ago. That's action, not just talk, and no ordinary journalist can feel safe in Brazil.
DT
Jan 25th, 2020 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unions, coca growers, some of the rich*...these* no doubt, to continue benefiting from shady deals with govt.
Bottom line in politics is that they’ll all protect each other’s butts (in detriment of the population), ‘cause one day they might be in a similar situation.
When someone's sufficiently educated to understand the pros & cons of a cause, cadging a lift is neither here nor there. When they’re convinced (by leftist unions ‘n political parties), to leave their house for money, to participate in protests they don’t fully understand, they’re manipulated, pure ‘n simple.
“yellow vests protesting pension reforms right now”...besides not being so very different, fact remains tt most ‘old’ pension systems are no longer able to cope with the system’s demands….fully understand protestor indignation, but by simply refusing to acknowledge the situation now, means that when/if they eventually do (or before), the impact will be far worse.
(Fm previous post) : “to be honest, UK press couldn't have been more biased against Corbyn, ‘n he's never threatened to take his ball home / put journalists in jail”
While an (opposition) MP, you can say things the prime minister shouldn't....problem with B, he acts like he was still in Congress. Just fyi, Lula threatened a journalist with deportation....
“...rather his son be dead than gay...” Agree 100%, but what’s that got to do with B ?
“...sounds like a good idea in principle..”..if you don't unstand what's behind it, perhaps. Besides having nothing to do with jury trials (heinous crimes, i.e., murder, rape) it’s an artifice introduced to make conviction even more difficult in that the process never ends...which fully attends most politicians. And, the number of judges would need to at least double, if not triple, to attend such a structure. Besides cost, hardly feasible in Brazil.
GG wasn't indicted...only named for possible investigation due to evidence tt he participated in /oriented the cyber attacks with the hackers.
“These no doubt, to continue benefiting from shady deals with govt.”
Jan 25th, 2020 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Indeed:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ayman-asfari-boris-johnson-tory-donor-oil-deal-syria-war-a9122136.html
And in the UK the donors can buy their way straight into Parliament. Saves the trouble of rigging elections like in Latin America:
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-donors-house-lords-peers-theresa-may-boris-johnson-labour-a9231061.html
I don't see a problem with political parties or unions convincing people to go on a protest. It's not much different to persuading them to vote for a particular candidate. Where's the evidence anyone is paid to attend, or especially that it's a regular thing?
I don't know enough about the situation in France to say whether the reforms are reasonable, but the protests certainly have got violent and the police have been violent in return.
“problem with B, he acts like he was still in Congress”
Yes. Speaking out against authority is one thing; it's different when you are the authority. And in addition a president is supposed to represent their country to the world, so a certain amount of diplomacy is called for. RE Lula, was his bark also worse than his bite when it came to that journalist?
“what’s that got to do with B ?”
It was one of the controversial things he said before becoming president, along with supporting torture and wanting to cut down the Amazon.
I compared the new law to jury trials because it seems to be aimed at increasing impartiality, by ensuring the judge has not been involved in a case before deliberating on it. It's not obvious they'd need more judges, either; they could simply switch to work on a different case at that point and a colleague would take over. It's the same amount of work either way, isn't it?
“GG wasn't indicted”
Really? The US media is all saying 'American journalist charged by Federal prosecutors in Brazil'.
”Can the president of Brazil jail the Intercept’s Glenn Greenwald for publishing leaks?
Jan 26th, 2020 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse +1In Brazil, as in the United States, the constitution protects expression from government interference and prohibits Congress from writing any laws that hinder press freedom. In 2009, the Supreme Court revoked a dictatorship-era press law that imposed severe restrictions and penalties on journalists, including imprisonment. In a milestone ruling, the Court recognized the freedom of expression, including the right of journalists to publish information of public concern regardless of its origin. “The ruling also reinforced citizens’ right to information, and it has guided the following decisions of the Supreme Court and lower courts,” Taís Gasparian, a Brazilian media attorney ... says. “Confidential information and documents have been leaked to the media before, and the Supreme Court has ruled that it is not up to the press, but to those who possess the information, to protect confidentiality,” Gasparian says. “The press has the right, and I’d say the duty, to publish content that is newsworthy and of public interest.”
Under Brazilian law, the act of intercepting information and the act of publishing it are distinct, according to Walter Vieira Ceneviva, a media attorney and former president of the Press Freedom Commission of the Brazilian Bar Association. “Even if the origin of the information turns out to be criminal, this does not associate the journalist with the crime,” he says. “And there are no legal restrictions to the journalist’s right to publish information of public concern that has been illegally obtained by a third party.”
https://www.cjr.org/analysis/the-intercept-greenwald-brazil-soccer.php
DT
Jan 26th, 2020 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So, if that can happen in the UK, despite (presumably) better legislation to fight corruption, imagine Brazil...with 50% of Congress 'n other politicians in the game for personal benefit.
“don't see a problem with political parties/unions convincing people to go on a protest” or “persuading them to vote for a particular candidate”
Presume you mean convincing them through talking, explaining ideas, etc....not through plain bribery....and isn't getting someone to “vote” for you, the name of the game ?
“..where's the evidence anyone is paid to attend...” ROFLMAO. It's notorious ! those protesters don't even deny it 'n aren't in the least bit ashamed...their excuse ? “I have to eat, don't I ?”. These are people who don't even have 2 pennies to rub together..
When the toad was locked up, 5,000 of them were bussed around Brazil to protest anywhere (the PT thought ) they could be useful.
“Re Lula, was his bark worse than his bite when it came to that journalist?”
More or less. He tried to deport him, but the Law said NO. The media recvd USD billions in govt propaganda...so they only reluctantly criticized him when they could not afford to remain silent....such as near the end of his 2nd term (after the 'mensalão') and during Dilma's reign, because the shit became too obvious to ignore.
“..was one of the controversial things he said before becoming president”...IMO, just campaign rhetoric, that went in one ear 'n out the other...except of those who get offended at anything...he never tried to enact anything based on it, and afaic, I only care about what he actually does, as Prez.
Altho there's still no definitive decision whether jury trials will be affected by it, understanding is that they'll be excluded, so there, nothing should change. The reason behind it is to protect people charged with coruption i.e., politicians (Flavio B)
GG was denounced by a Fed prosecutor, different to being charged...a judge will decide to indict, or not. US media is wrong.
“Glenn Greenwald: ‘Does the Law in Brazil Even Matter Anymore?’
Jan 26th, 2020 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Some have tried to draw a distinction between his case and that of Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, who was charged with helping whistleblower Chelsea Manning escape detection. In the popular mindset, Assange helped Manning “steal” military secrets by agreeing to help her crack a password “hash,” making him guilty of actual cyber-skullduggery in a way Greenwald is not.”
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/glenn-greenwald-indictment-brazil-jair-bolsonaro-941721/
“So, if that can happen in the UK... imagine Brazil”
Jan 26th, 2020 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse +1We were originally talking about Bolivia, but that is all speculation. Neither of us has any idea if the last government, the current one, or the many that came before were corrupt or what they might have been involved in. I did see Áñez has decided to stand in the election, after originally saying she wasn't going to. Power seems to be addictive...
“Presume you mean convincing them through talking, explaining ideas, etc”
Yes. Saying it's notorious they are paid to attend is the worst evidence, plenty of things that 'everyone knows' turn out not to be true. Why would they even need to pay anyone, aren't there tons of (poor) people in Brazil who still love Lula?
“IMO, just campaign rhetoric”
If someone tells you who they are, you should believe them... that's cold, and very far from the worst thing Bolsonaro has said over the years. I know you like his financial policies, but from his own words, he's not a good man. And those comments didn't go in one ear and out the other for the religious and homophobic groups who gave him their support in the election. They take it seriously and expect him to do something about it.
I just read a description of the new law, it says it won't apply to jury trials or cases in the higher courts. Would Flavio's case be handled in the first instance court? The law reads exactly as a response to Moro's actions in the LJ investigation and the doubts over his impartiality raised by the Intercept leaks. This change would prevent such a situation arising in future.
I also checked yesterday to see what the Intercept wrote about GG; you're right. I don't think there's an equivalent in US (or English) law, which is probably why they said he'd been charged, but it's bad reporting all the same. D'you think the judge will approve the charges? Seems highly unlikely Greenwald has committed a crime.
DT
Jan 26th, 2020 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry for confusion....fact is that BOL or BZL, the shit's much the same...only the flies change.
“Neither of us has any idea if...”....speak for yourself....always ready to trust 'n to forgive ....if you'd grown up here, you wouldn't be so trusting.
Ever since the toad was locked up, his popularity has been waning...even just before he was imprisoned, and Dilma was kicked out, turnouts to PT's political rallys were getting smaller 'n smaller....and it's becoming even more evident now....he probably still has a considerable following, but not what it used to be. The PT always claimed that if they lost an election, the Bolsa Familia would be terminated....people have finally realized it was bs.
“If someone tells you who they are, you should believe them...” Really ? perhaps, but NOT necrly in politics....don't they all promise the Earth, that they are the most honest person in the world, and then it turns out to be a big lie ?
I like P.Guedes' financial policies....just as well B let's him get on with most of it.
B's problem is that he goes overboard when trying to make a point.....more that than being a 'bad' person...IMO.
Homophobic groups that never took his words seriously, still support him...so, not ALL believed his nutty declarations....
The “juiz de garantias” is still not Law....the the Brazilian Magistrates Association and other such entities were dead against it, even Toffoli eventually realized it might not work....and now FUX has postponed it, indefinitely - subject greater study.
Only the lawyers association, and whose Prez is a declared commnist - supported it - obviously !
Presume Flavio's case would start in the 1st lower Federal court, as his present immunity does not cover crimes committed before his current term.
The Intercept and the left in general, would obviously insist Moro was biased....I don't think so, and see no point in discussing it further.
Re GG, unlikely? don't know, but think it's possible...evidence is appearing...
“speak for yourself”
Jan 27th, 2020 - 12:22 am - Link - Report abuse +1You're an expert on Bolivia now? You've been there once and that was 40 years ago. The only time it even appeared in the news was stories about gas or when someone was talking about socialism.
“turnouts to PT's political rallys were getting smaller 'n smaller”
People attended the rallies without getting paid, then, or there's no reason for numbers to drop. So why not protests, too?
Re Bolsonaro, are people supposed to think better of him because he'd lie about something like that? You're too ready to trust and forgive him. Just because you voted for someone doesn't mean you have to like them.
Why would homophobic groups support him if they don't believe what he says?
“Only the lawyers association, and whose Prez is a declared commnist - supported it - obviously !”
The guy who was charged with libel for criticising Moro by the same prosecutor who denounced GG? That case was dismissed by a federal judge.
Last I heard there was no new evidence against GG. But the guy was a lawyer before he became a journalist and he already published the Snowdon leaks, he's knowledgeable enough to know the law and make sure he doesn't cross the line.
“Brazil filed charges Tuesday against Glenn Greenwald. He's a Pulitzer Prize-winning American journalist who lives there and a prominent critic of President Jair Bolsonaro's right-wing government. Prosecutors say Greenwald helped hack the cellphones of Brazilian officials. ... The federal police,... conducted a comprehensive investigation and found that I had no involvement of any kind in the hack, principally because the first time the source talked to me, he had in his possession all the information that he gave to me, making it logically impossible for me to have been involved. ... This particular prosecutor who nonetheless brought these charges is notorious for abusing his office. ... But obviously, the first thing I did when I was contacted by the source was sit down with our team of Brazilian lawyers to try and understand the similarities and differences between Brazilian law on the one hand and American and British on the other, which I was very familiar from my work as a lawyer but also the Snowden case.”
Jan 27th, 2020 - 01:59 am - Link - Report abuse +1https://www.wfae.org/post/journalist-glen-greenwald-cybercrime-accusations-brazil
JB
Jan 27th, 2020 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse +1You might be interested in this very unsympathetic article about Evo Morales's wealth:
https://panampost.com/mamela-fiallo/2019/09/27/evo-morales-fortune-un/?cn-reloaded=1
The important part:
“While the average Bolivian was in dire need, the president’s net worth increased by 221% from when he assumed the presidency. In 2006, Morales reportedly had 127,000 dollars. Later, in 2015, his net worth was close to half a million dollars, and this trend continues.”
Wow, half a million dollars. Our old house is worth more than $127,000, and the new one cost more than $500,000 (the bank owns most of it now, but that should change by the time we're sixty). How does your own net worth compare to a former president's? If Morales was stealing he's extremely bad at it!
DT
Jan 27th, 2020 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Expert” on Bolivia now ?“ NO WAY...you misinterpreted my words...you might believe you've 'no idea', but based on Morales actions against Petrobras in 2009/10, 'n Lula's inteference which ended up greatly favouring Bolivia, in detriment of PB 'n Brazil, I have plenty reason to suspect corruption went on behind the scenes..
The way the 'incident' was settled, raises eyebrows...too bad yr media was not too interested in divulging the details...besides, give me some credit for living here 'n being accustomed to S.American politics 'n corruption.
Just b4 Lula was locked up, he went on several ”caravans” around the country trying to prop up support. They were dismal failures. Apart from his 5,000 faithful, paid followers, they attracted VERY few locals, 'n in various locations he was actually booed...but that means nothing, right ?
Look, I'm not trying to convince you 'why' he lost support, am simply stating he did.
Wouldn't say B LIED when he gave homophobic declarations....good or bad, he was truthful abt his feelings...he isn't obliged to like the LGBTQ movemt. What WOULD be unacceptable would be official action, or laws, to discriminate it - which hasn't happened, so what's the big deal ? Many have now realized it was just campaign rhetoric, nothing more...and life goes on.
I'm not ready to 'forgive', or to forget, anything....I don't 'love' B, 'n I WILL criticize him whenever he pisses out the pot...don't agree with all his policies, but when I think of the alternative...
Felipe Santa Cruz (Prez of OAB) was charged with libelling Moro, but he soon backed down, trying to wiggle out of it by declaring he criticized M's legal posture in some cases but wasn't accusing him of any crime...Sure, 'n the tooth fairy exists.
The 1st charges against GG were dismissed by Fed'l judge abt mid 2019....well b4 the current evidence (orienting the hacking / money laundering) appeared a few weeks ago.
The current evidence IS new, 'n since when are all lawyers law abiding ?
Okay, you're not claiming to be an expert. What exactly happened in 2009? Really can't find much in the English language press, besides the fact it was 10 years ago. Can see why you'd be unhappy if the result favoured Bolivia, but for Bolivians there's a big difference between getting an advantage for the country and the government enriching themselves. No reason for them to object to the former, is there?
Jan 27th, 2020 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What did you think of the article I linked? They make a big deal of the fact Morales gained a few hundred thousand dollars over 9 years - an amount that would be just enough to buy a 1 bed flat in London - and that poverty in Bolivia barely fell between 2016 and 2017. Meanwhile it rose by 4% in Brazil. Seems remarkably biased to me.
Re Lula, wasn't denying he's lost much of his popularity. Just want to know how much evidence there is that people were paid to attend protests over various issues. It's such a convenient reason to ignore them, it makes me suspicious.
“he isn't obliged to like the LGBTQ movemt”
Or to love his own kids apparently, depending how they turned out. You were happy enough to agree with me when you didn't know who said it. He has taken some actions, too, removing LGBT concerns from the human rights ministry and all mention from school textbooks. He can't do much more cause the courts would overturn it.
The charges against Santa Cruz were dismissed by a judge, and the Intercept implied the prosecutor who raised them was more interested in defending Moro than upholding the law. Also said the Federal Police published a report in December that GG hadn't broken any laws.
“since when are all lawyers law abiding ?”
GG likes to f*** with the powerful and knows he'll be under scrutiny and they'll be trying to get something on him. Knowing you'll be caught is a great incentive to avoid wrongdoing.
DT
Jan 28th, 2020 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To keep it simple : In '95, PB bought 2 refineries in BOL (US$ 102 mi). Planned to invest USD 1,5 bi over 10 years (eventually represented 18% of BOL GDP). B4, 'n in 2005, while campaigning, Morales promised he’d nationalize the oil industry (“Comrade Lula will give them back to us”). PB (still privately controlled, 51%) became concerned.
End 2005, Lula backs Morales candidacy. Morales took over in 2006, 'n said he wanted renegotiate the return of the refineries. PB asked for USD 200 mi, and in May, Morales agreed to pay 2 x USD 56 mi (well below market value). Still in May, before 1st payment was made, Morales nationalized them, 'n the army (literally) invades the refineries, to take possession. He then signed a “Supreme Decree” alleging “inadequate 'n irrational benefits” for PB, in “flagrant violation of Law”. PB decided to negotiate.
Was unable find info on 1st paymt (when/IF paid), but seems in 2007 the 2nd installment of US$ 56 mi was paid. PB had invested, besides the USD 102 mi (purchase), another USD 80 mi, and spent US$ 279 mi with legal fees, 'n at the end - 12 yrs later - provided all was paid - a max of USD 112 mi.
In 2007 Lula nationalized PB (again) - through an accounting gimmick whereby the Co. didn’t see one penny - took control, 'n then filled all key positions with his ('n PMDB) 'people'.
What's absurd, is that in Oct 2015, during a lecture for leftist political parties in SP, Lula proudly admitted he had (virtually) “donated” the refineries to Morales….the loss to PB, of 100s of millions of USD, indicates that Lula treated public assets as if they belonged to him. He went on to say that in discussions with Morales, prior to his election, they had agreed to and “combined” the refinery takeovers.
Regarding the article, no surprise…low salary etc, just politics, knowing he’d make up for it elsewhere…his VP ‘s assets increased 15 times …but, even they probably have no idea of how much he has stashed away. Whole thing stinks.
Need space
“Need space”
Jan 28th, 2020 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your assertion needs proof otherwise the view is that your claim is false; because of your failure to meet your burden of proof.
“Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy; States of Affairs; First published Tue Mar 27, 2012
Philosophers connect sentences with various items, such as thoughts, facts and states of affairs. Thoughts are either true or false in an absolute sense, never both or neither.”
plato.stanford.edu/entries/states-of-affairs/
Interesting. Based on that I managed to find some info on the nationalisation, including that other foreign oil/gas companies (Repsol, BP, Total) were also affected and forced to renegotiate contracts. I wanted to know if any of them got a better (or worse) deal than PB, to see if Lula really was overly generous, but couldn't find any specifics. Can you find an account of this lecture Lula gave? I'd like to see what he said.
Jan 28th, 2020 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Weird to think that to Bolivians Brazil was one of the developed countries exploiting them. But I still think the same as what I said before: can see why Brazilians would be unhappy with Lula over this, but its not an objection for Bolivians.
Re the article, do you agree it was biased? The author sure made a lot out of a little, if she had found anything worse she definitely would have mentioned it. Should have been looking at the newspaper's own country's dodgy financial services companies, but then Morales wasn't in the Panama papers, unlike many other politicians around the world
DT
Jan 29th, 2020 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Besides many news reports on Lula's “generosity” with BOL, the following video “https://youtu.be/7rFO7bBH3Z0” shows Lula admitting he/ Morales had met to discuss PB's future in BOL, prior to Morales' being elected, ‘n Lula's promise to go easy on him. Sounds like it was all premeditated, to strengthen Morales’ candidacy, as well as the Bolivarian movement.
Yeah, the article was a bit strange...not too sure what its point was...but still believe Morales was corrupt, probably to a far lesser extent than Lula, 'n Chavez /Maduro in oil rich VZ, as his country was 'poor' in comparison. I’m confident Lula profited from the refinery “deal”...but you believe Morales didn't ?
Fm previous post : many ‘protesters’ confirmed they only went because they were paid to…no one , not even the unions/PT deny this…all the evidence needed.
B’s private life, ‘n his radical personal views, as long as they don’t become law, or don’t impact society, are irrelevant to me – only care about what he does in his official capacity as President.
Removing LGBT concerns from HR ministry ? what ‘concerns’ exactly ? did he pass any laws discriminating them ? and afa removing all mention frm schoolbooks for the very young, should damned well think so - plenty of time to learn about it later.
What the Intercept “implied” is no surprise to anyone…but what proof does GG have ? Gollum will believe it, not me…GG’s intention is to throw shit in the fan and hope some sticks.
The FP report, published Dec, was compiled before the new evidence was found in the hacker’s computer…and a judge has to dismiss or accept the MPFed’s case when /if presented. Don’t care what GG likes, or does, as long as he acts ‘within’ the law….looks like this time he may have crossed the line.
“Knowing you'll be caught is great incentive to avoid wrongdoing”…doesn’t seem to intimidate the politicians…they pass all sorts of laws to protect themselves, 'n after being charged/out on bail, many continue their schemes.
So first Lula says something about enemies - you have to treat your enemies the way you'd like them to treat you? I don't understand the relevance. Then he says it was difficult for Morales because the 'backward elite' in Brazil was hard on Bolivia? And he met with Morales before the latter was in government and Morales asked him how he'd react if Bolivia nationalised PB, and Lula said it was Bolivia's oil and gas and he respected their sovereignty. Is that about right?
Jan 29th, 2020 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So he was trying to help out his ally? Definitely not putting Brazil's interests first. As for profiting from the deal, PB could have saved a hell of a lot of money if they'd been able to bribe Morales not to nationalise those refineries...
The article was written by a 'co-founder of the Cuban Libertarian Party', so you can guess she's very opposed to the Bolivarians. Can't blame a Cuban for hating the left, really, but explains the bias.
Re protesters, could only find one instance: https://epoca.globo.com/tempo/noticia/2015/03/manifestantes-de-campos-bafirmam-ter-ganhado-r-80-para-ir-atob-no-rio.html . Are there really other examples?
Removing LGBT concerns from any ministry would be to make sure they are ignored, allow discrimination etc. And if you don't educate kids they'll just learn a lot of rubbish from the internet and not understand what's happening to them. They didn't just ban it for the very young but from all school books. Anyway, I'm not about to forgive and forget B's 'radical personal views', and I still think he's over-sensitive about the press. He's one of these people who claim to like plain-speaking and then get all offended when someone does the same to them.
“looks like this time [GG] may have crossed the line.”
Or the government wants to harass him and scare off other journalists who can't afford expensive lawyers. The politicians are different because they don't believe they'll be caught, or they think they'll wriggle out of it if they are, and they usually do.
DT
Jan 29th, 2020 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's about it...old news reports are somewhat more complete, but the video gives you the gist of it.
Morales campaign was based on the nationalization of the oil industry....couldn't very well back out.
Google “Manifestantes recebem R$ 35 para ir a ato a favor de Dilma em SP”.....it was already happening by the end of Dilma's first term, 'n the police followed up on leads and found evidence that far left parties (PSOL) and some unions were also paying people to stimulate violence (black blocs).
Re LGBT, removing what ??? unless laws have been passed to discriminate them, which haven't, where's the concern ?....kids will hear of it 'n ask questions about the movement, but no need to throw it at them at a young age, in school....they'll have plenty of time to become familiar with it, form their own opinions, when they are a bit older....and afaik, schools are not teaching it's a bad thing...simply think it's a theme they should be introduced to them naturally, in everyday life....not promoting it, nor condemning it....it's just a fact of life.
Trying to guide people into thinking it's great to be transgender, makes no sense to me....if someone, at some point in life decides to assume a different sexual orientation to their biological sex, so be it....no big deal, 'n definitely means nothing to me.
B's over-sensitiveness about the press, was shared by Lula and the PT....If I had more space I'd send you a short article on the PT vs press....Lula still got away with much more because he gave them billions in State advertising.
To what extent GG got involved with hackers (a fact), and possibly even oriented them, remains to be seen...if he did, he deserves all the harrasment he gets, in the same way his selective reports harrassed Moro 'n others by divulging contents of 'supposed' private conversations, which were illegally obtained.
Even if you don't agree with the way our legal system is structured, it'll still favour GG...I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
I can imagine Corbyn doing and saying something similar... probably part of the reason he wasn't elected. Corbyn wouldn't take a bribe though, he's an idealist.
Jan 30th, 2020 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0True that Morales promised to nationalise gas and oil. If he wanted money from the deal he could have offered PB more compensation at the taxpayers expense, on the condition he gets a cut - isn't that how it works in Brazil? But in reality PB took a big loss, they're not gonna reward him for that.
That same headline is on loads of different news sites. Wonder who first reported it? And CUT is a union? It says they called for more policing on that occasion, which is a little surprising. Think's grandkids are in those black blocs according to him...
“unless laws have been passed to discriminate them, which haven't, where's the concern ?”
What if your boss fires you for being gay, or your landlord throws you out on the street? Or people attack you on the bus? That happened to two women in the UK recently, and the UK is a lot more progressive than Brazil. Then you want the government to do something about it, not just sit on their hands. In Brazil it has been mostly left up to the courts, AIUI. As for schools, better to give children the facts in an age-appropriate way than let them learn from rumour. I think it's mostly religious people who don't want their kids to learn any facts that contradict their beliefs. In America they teach that condoms don't prevent pregnancy or block HIV and then wonder why so many teens get pregnant or catch STDS.
Has Lula said anything controversial on a par with B?
GG lives in a fortified house and can't leave without security guards and an armoured car. He's received multiple death threats, against his kids too. Do you think he deserves that kind of harassment as well as all the legal investigations?
DT
Jan 31st, 2020 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re Corbyn, “he's an idealist”. Sure is, but that doesn't make him an “ideal” choice.
”(PB took a big loss,) they're not gonna reward him for that”. And since when were PB's interests a concernt under Lula ? it was simply a means ($$$) to reach his objective ...another ex., the Pasadena refinery deal, in which PB took a USD1 bi loss. IMO, Morales was rewarded for going along with a farce which allowed everyone to get a cut...except PB
“Wonder who first reported it?”...does it matter ? what DOES though, is that NO ONE ever tried to deny it...they'd become the laughing stock of the world.
Yes, CUT is the main union that aggregates 100s of other, leftist unions. It is used politically by the PT, PSOL etc, and like most of them, are liars 'n masters of manipulation.
“What if your boss fires you for being gay”. You know / understand very little of Brazilian Law....as shitty as you may think it is, if anyone fired someone for being gay, simply because of their sexual orientation, they would be prosecuted into oblivion.
If some nut case decides to attack a gay fellow on the street, that is their own very particular problem, and these cases of homophobia have been occurring for years...well b4 B, and Lula (despite the left's promotion of it). It is simply one of the bad reactions of (a 'macho') society that is basically conservative when it comes down to sexual issues. The fact many more people are being open about it, has caused a regrettable backlash, but only from deranged idiots.
And what is the right age to “teach” children the facts of life ? 5, 6, 10 ?
Lula's controversial remarks were usually swept under the carpet, on account of his popularity and his 'funding' of the media.
Re GG, that's a wee bit exaggerated....in this country, if you are a prominent person on either side of political spectrum, you could easily receive death threats...it's not uncommon. Didn't a leftist fanatic try to assasinate B ?
Yeah, GG brought the investigations upon himself..
Morales got what he wanted anyway; to keep his campaign promise and two refineries cheap. And he hasn't been accused of corruption, unlike Lula, and Temer, and like 6 Peruvian presidents. I'm gonna wait until there's some evidence against him before assuming anything.
Feb 01st, 2020 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re source of the story, thought you didn't trust the mainstream media? It's nice to know where the stories you read are coming from.
In America you can get fired for any reason in some states. Did Lula's government pass anti-discrimination laws? Or is it in the constitution? If so then B can't really do very much, right? And the streets in Brazil aren't safe for anyone, but apparently some are in more danger than others... like GG. B was stabbed by a fanatic and Marielle Franco assassinated by a couple of ex-cops/militia members, so I think GG is right to take the threats seriously. I wouldn't want to live that way, but they don't have much choice now.
As for facts of life, I think you can teach children at any age, if it's done in an age appropriate way. But they definitely need to know by puberty, which seems to be starting earlier and earlier.... Since you're still here I may as well tell you; we're expecting a baby in a couple of months. That's what I meant by a surprise. Soon I'm going to have a lot less free time...
DT
Feb 01st, 2020 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Morales 'hasn't been accused of corruption'....yet.....but as they say here, I think “his potato is baking”...
Never said he IS guilty...just that “I” suspect his is...based on the refinery deal alone ....all very suspicious.
“Re source of the story, thought you didn't trust mainstream media?” You trying to say now that I trust the MSM ? if so, just fyi, just abt every source reported on it...even those that traditionally backed the PT...watch the 2015 video distributed by the Folha de SP
https://youtu.be/ffCegdX9ekA
We're not talking abt America...you were concerned about it in BRAZIL...due to B.
The way in which just abt every single social issue was dealt with in the 1988 Constitution, yes....it foresaw that discrimination related to 'origin, sex, race,colour, age' and 'any other form of discrimination' will be punished with jailtime if found guilty.
As an individual, the Prez has relatively little power to pass laws...everything needs to go through Congress, so B, or even the Petista govts, can't / couldn't just legislate as they wanted (reason why Lula bought votes in Congress, i.e., 'mensalão').
The fact a law against something exists, might be a deterring factor for some, but will guarantee nothing, other than, if caught and proved guilty, you'll be screwed.
Look, GG clearly broke the law...or do you think that conspiring with hackers to invade social networks (or APPs) to divulge supposed private conversations, without a prior warrant, is legal ? he thought he was being smart, but I suspect he regrets the position he has put himself in...I'm not saying he shouldn't take the threats seriously, just that he brought it upon himself.
“in an 'age appropriate' way”....well that says it all, doesn't it ?
Considering 'puberty' starts on average around 9, 10, 12 years old, when natural curiosity occurs, teaching sex education then, is ok....at 5, 6, or 7, it's not...too early.
Well, congratulations on the baby !!! GOOD LUCK !
Jack Bauer Proof less & Truth less
Feb 01st, 2020 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“GG clearly broke the law...” No he did as has clearly been shown.
“The press has the right, and I’d say the duty, to publish content that is newsworthy and of public interest.”
Under Brazilian law, the act of intercepting information and the act of publishing it are distinct, according to Walter Vieira Ceneviva, a media attorney and former president of the Press Freedom Commission of the Brazilian Bar Association. “Even if the origin of the information turns out to be criminal, this does not associate the journalist with the crime,” he says. “And there are no legal restrictions to the journalist’s right to publish information of public concern that has been illegally obtained by a third party.”
https: //www.cjr.org/analysis/the-intercept-greenwald-brazil-soccer.php
”Prosecutors say Greenwald helped hack the cellphones of Brazilian officials. ... The federal police,... conducted a comprehensive investigation and found that I had no involvement of any kind in the hack, principally because the first time the source talked to me, he had in his possession all the information that he gave to me, making it logically impossible for me to have been involved. ... This particular prosecutor who nonetheless brought these charges is notorious for abusing his office. ... But obviously, the first thing I did when I was contacted by the source was sit down with our team of Brazilian lawyers to try and understand the similarities and differences between Brazilian law on the one hand and American and British on the other, which I was very familiar from my work as a lawyer but also the Snowden case.”
https://www.wfae.org/post/journalist-glen-greenwald-cybercrime-accusations-brazil
“just abt every source reported on it...even those that traditionally backed the PT”
Feb 01st, 2020 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's what I was wondering, it makes it more convincing than if only opposing media published it. I saw that B has also been funding the media to advertise the pension reform:
https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/poder/2020/01/propaganda-paga-pela-presidencia-ficou-com-apresentadores-de-tv-prediletos-de-bolsonaro.shtml
Seems like when they drew up the constitution they wanted to cover all the bases. And make it harder for a later government to undo them, after seeing how the military acted while in charge. IIRC B tried to legalise guns with something like an executive order and then Congress blocked it. Is that what you're talking about?
Re GG, the hackers clearly broke the law, but publishing the information they gave him isn't illegal, and neither is talking to them. So far as we know he wasn't involved in the hacking and hasn't done anything wrong. Do you think B also brought the attack on himself with all his controversial statements attacking sectors of society?
What were they teaching kids at 5, 6 and 7? We started sex ed at school about 10 I think, but we didn't get the demonstration of putting a condom on a banana until high school. Nowadays they say you shouldn't force young kids to eg kiss or hug relatives if they don't want to, so they know they have control of their own bodies and don't have to let adults do whatever they want. It's supposed to help protect them against paedophiles.
And thanks, I'm excited but also really nervous, kids are such a big responsibility. Do you have any?
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