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Montevideo, December 4th 2021 - 20:03 UTC

 

 

Cristina Fernandez: Argentina will not pay “even half a cent” of its IMF debt until the country exits recession

Monday, February 10th 2020 - 08:56 UTC
Full article 67 comments

Argentine Vice President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner said on Saturday in Havana that the government will not pay “even half a cent” of its debt back to the International Monetary Fund before the country has exited recession. Read full article

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  • tallison46

    Here we go again..... They will NEVER get ahead this way

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • pgerman

    @tallison46

    I don't know who are the people you refer as “they” but let me remind you that 41% of the argentine popullation voted for Macri. I can say, whitout any doubt that 50% of the aregentine popullation consider CFK a clown and are totally against this kind of messages.

    They, this 50%, consider that debts must be honoured.

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Jack Bauer

    Must say, CFK's comment really does wonders for international investor confidence.....not to mention that it looks like a signal that it is she who wears the trousers in the Fernandez relationship.

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Chicureo

    Jack,

    Do you remember: “este país não é sério.”

    If an apparition of Charles de Gaulle would be asked today what he thought of Argentina's intransigence about paying its debts, I imagine he would comment: “This is not a serious country!”

    Other than China or Russia, where does she expect the next loans to come from?
    Venezuela and Iran seem to be broke...

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    My dear Shicuréo...

    You should inform yourself a bit more and drink some less of that tannin rich Shilean wine...

    Things are a teeny weeny different this time...

    The Argie negotiators ar quite more pragmatic...

    And the IMF can't explain..., to friend or foe...,why on Earth they totally disrespected their own statutes and took the incredible “Moral Hazard” of lending..., without any supervision..., ~60% of their capital..., some 60,000,000,000 U$D to an inept and already bankrupt Argie administration...
    - (The Progrom is..., by the way..., ongoing in the IMF..., five of the top fat cats involved in this scandal are already no more..., maybe some IMF history will be written in the next few months..., don't change channel ;-)

    BTW...:
    How do you THINK things are going at home...?

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Chicureo

    Estimado THINK

    OH I completely agree IMF can't explain why they loaned more money to a notorious deadbeat debtor, but that's far beyond my paygrade.

    As far as your next door neighbor, we are going through a difficult year with a serious decline in our economy. Downtown Santiago still suffers from non-working traffic lights and many storefronts remain with plywood/metal sheet coverings.

    Our Peso has experienced unusual instability. We expect continued protests after the summer vacation. Our independent central bank remains stable and long term forecasts are positive.

    The farm export sector is generally booming. High unemployment has resulted in plentiful low cost labor and revenue is earned in US Dollars. Like I said before, the social unrest aftermath has most harmed the underprivileged, but the upper middle class are just getting richer.

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    JB
    I was thinking the same. Or else she is the bad cop and Alberto the good cop... he seems to be a lot more pragmatic.

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Woooooow...

    All just right then...?
    Summer holidays in Shile and almost all Shilean politicians guatita al sol in Maiami...!

    Reminds me of that French summer of 1788... Louis XVI & Marie Antoinette enjoying pretty Versailles...

    -Then came Maxi Robespierre...

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Chicureo

    Estimado THINK

    The problem is that all the young children of bourgeoisie will not have interrupt their beach vacations, to join in the street anarchy festivities until March.

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    Hear hear. Speaks Cristina and the usual suspects reappear presto.

    Absolutely. What Cristina Kirchner is saying is, Argentina must negotiate a way to pay back the horrendous debt left behind by the previous government in a 'sustainable' way, that is, without sinking he domestic economy into recession. The same was said, perhaps in more diplomatic terms, by economy minister Martín Guzmán and president Alberto Fernández.

    Fact is, the IMF has shown willingness to consider the country's situation. We must remember that the loan to Argentina was the IMF's largest to date to a single country and that it was granted in record time, without the usual technocrats' technical evaluations. Loaner and borrower's shared responsibility cannot be denied.

    What's more, those linked to the loan are now being quickly removed. First, of course, was Christine Lagarde, followed by now former chief of mission to Argentina Roberto Cardarelli and by U.S. economist David Lipton, who was key in the granting of the $56-billion loan to Argentina. Don't look for this information in the English-speaking media though -- read the Argentine newspapers. The changes may help a review of the circumstances in which the IMF decided on the loan at a time when it was more than clear that the Macri government had no plan and that the loaned money would just increase the flow of capital flight -- as it happened.

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Think

    Shicuréo...
    Must say..., you taking the piss of the ~230 years old French Revolution..., whilst sharing bed with Mme. Defarge...,is quite brave...
    But..., taking in consideration your own ~50 years old life experience..., I Think that taking the piss of El Chile Despertó is a tad foolish...

    Sr.Massot...
    Jupppppppppp....
    I Think we will soon witness an IMF first...!
    A substancial haIrcut on a IMF loan granted to one of its members...
    Saludos cordiales...

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Jack Bauer

    Chicureo,
    Yeah, I remember to whom the phrase “Bresil n'est pas un pays sérieux” was attributed to.....De Gaulle, but in fact, just to set the historical record straight , it was a Brazilian ambassador to France in the early 60s, when he was summoned by De Gaulle to clarify what the hell was happening over an incident known as the 'war of the lobsters' (France fishing lobster in Brazilian territorial waters, surrounded by a certain hostility and fake news)....the ambassador, highly critical of Brazil's foreign policy, when questioned by a Brazilian journalist on his way out of the meeting, refused to comment on it, however did coin the phrase, which became more well-known after De Gaule repeated it....seems the French love it, even Macron has repeated it...LOL

    But you're right, looks like Argentina - namely CFK - is embarking on the same policies she and her late hubbie put into practise before....with disastrous results...(it'll be interesting to see what happens....but I'm sure Reekie will defend her policy, even if it means - as you well said - not knowing where the next loans will come from); Then again, China might offer to loan a few billion (even if only to push the problem further into the future), provided the guarantee is a few 100 thousand square kms of agricultural land...that would be pragmatic)

    It's no surprise she's come back with a lot of the 'same stuff'...filling govt posts with her old cronies, refusing to pay foreign debt and loans, and of course, the stealing back home...

    Don't expect much to change, but I think Alberto had better watch his back.....he may end up “'suicided'”, like Nisman.

    DT
    Whether good cop or bad cop, she's doing Alberto no favours by shooting her mouth off.......perhaps it's just habit, not used to being # 2.

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • DemonTree

    EM
    “Don't look for this information in the English-speaking media though”

    You mean like here?

    https://en.mercopress.com/2020/02/08/new-imf-chief-georgieva-reshuffling-top-jobs-deputy-lipton-to-be-replaced

    It hasn't exactly hurt Ms Lagarde's career, anyway. She's now head of the ECB.

    And I'll believe the IMF will take a haircut when I see it.

    JB
    I agree, Alberto's more conciliatory approach seems to be showing results, and she's acting like she's still President herself. It's undermining him.

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Estimado THINK, Jack and DemonTree

    Interesting history information about Charles de Gaulle... ...Lobsters...

    In the end, all of this never ending telenovela tango will be repackaged through political intrigue and dramatic creative theft. IF they can indeed achieve a inconceivable substantial “haircut” to their debt obligation, I'll have to tip my Phrygian-bonnet-rouge to their delirious audacity.

    Madame, sans bonnet-rouge, is planning dinner to include a paper-thin beef carpaccio drizzled with avocado oil and lemon juice, finished with mustard infused capers, thin slivers of sweet red onions and topped with a few shavings of goat cheese. Dessert is Flame Seedless from our current harvest. ...I'm still debating on the wine pairing.

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    TWIMC...

    - Funny to see the above Anglo Turnips Think about the Bad Pig -Good Pig concept...
    Without realizing that this is a bridge game and that Cristina & Alberto are freaking good partners...

    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Chicureo

    Estimado THINK

    Are you referring to a bridge game, or is it perhaps a Ponzi scheme?

    Waiting for the sunset and enjoy the beautiful evening. ¡Saludos!

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Estimado Shicuréo...

    If you cared to borrow some of the intelectual honesty your media naranja surely could loan you without interests..., you could clearly see that the Ponzi Scheme was indeed played by the previous Argie Administration and the IMF...

    The current one is definitively playing Bridge...

    Feb 10th, 2020 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Chicureo

    Estimado THINK

    It has been said: ”The real test of a Bridge player isn't in keeping out of trouble, but in escaping once he's in.”

    I've never played the game, but as a youngster I quickly learned you can only bluff your poker opponents when they're gullible.

    Personally I hope your country pulls it off...

    ...but I suspect it's not in the cards...

    Feb 11th, 2020 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • bushpilot

    This was just a little comment by CFK that MercoPress knew would get some attention from its readers.

    Most Argentines probably view her as an insignificant old windbag and this was just her passing a little wind.

    From all the way up in Canada, you don't even smell it.

    Feb 11th, 2020 - 01:05 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • DemonTree

    JB
    You know, Think and Terry do have something in common. They're both hypocrites who can't see the beams in their own eyes, who pretend to care about evidence but in practice prefer childish insults.

    Chicureo
    If the farm ever doesn't work out, you could start a cooking show together. Just reading your descriptions makes me jealous.

    Feb 11th, 2020 - 09:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Linda foto de la yegua..., feliz junto asu potranca...!
    https://fotos.perfil.com/2020/02/11/trim/1140/641/cristina-and-florencia-in-cuba-914519.jpg

    Feb 11th, 2020 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Jack Bauer

    EM
    (not intended to get a reply out of you, but simply call other's attention to yr bs) :-

    CFK : “Argentina will not pay “even half a cent” of its IMF debt until the country exits recession”.....which, according to your very personal interpretation, means “Argentina must negotiate a way to pay back the horrendous debt left behind by the previous government in a 'sustainable' way, that is, without sinking he domestic economy into recession”.

    Okaaay, noooow I understand...she really means 'she won't pay one cent of Argentina's debt, to anyone...for as long as it pleases her'.
    Thanks for clarifying....but how do YOU know ? Ah sorry, I forgot....you have a direct line with CFK and she told you....my bad.

    Chicureo
    Glad to see you can still put aside a lot of the bs on here, and focus on your unquestionably refined palate....salud !

    DT
    Stink's insight “...without realizing that this is a bridge game and that Cristina & Alberto are freaking good partners”, is mind-boggling....but, partnership in crime can be freakin' good....or freakin' bad.....
    Chuckle..., chuckle (as the turnip says...or is it 'capisce' ?...)

    Yeah, unfortunately he and Gollum both wallow in the same garbage...can't take either of them seriously.
    (be patient, shouldn't take long for Stink's reaction....)

    Feb 11th, 2020 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Ché Shicurėo...

    Whilst enjoying the above picture of our national mare and her filly..., my AI bot suggested this story..., unknown to me...:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J6pfrXEmKl8&t=297s

    Makes one Think..., huhhhh...?

    Feb 11th, 2020 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Enrique Massot

    It looks like Cristina Fernandez' name acts like a magnet to MP keyboard warriors, many of whom are now closely paying attention to whatever she may utter about Argentina's foreign debt and whether this is a sign that she is the real power behind Alberto Fernandez.

    No bad for people who, for the last four years, had little to say while Mauricio Macri deregulated capital flows, disrupted the domestic economy and indebted the country faster and deeper than ever before.

    Feb 11th, 2020 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Monsieur Massot...

    How comes that your comments in here usualy get more negative Anglo votes than mine...?
    Must be because of your French descendence...
    I'm kind of jealous... ;-)

    Feb 11th, 2020 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    JB
    The two Fernandez's are allies today, but Alberto was in Nestor's government more so than Christina's, and according to Wikipedia he supported Sergio Massa against her successor in the 2015 election. Shows they haven't always seen eye to eye. Who knows what the relationship is really like now?

    Think likes to pretend greater knowledge than he has; I remember him predicting the downfall of Macri in 2017 and then Macri's party did really well and gained seats.

    As for Bridge, I had an ex at Uni who played it. Always thought it was a game for old ladies until then.

    Think
    Enrique gets more downvotes because he's sincere...

    Feb 11th, 2020 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    EM
    “It looks like Cristina Fernandez' name acts like a magnet to MP keyboard warriors, many of whom are now closely paying attention to whatever she may utter about Argentina's foreign debt”.....“now closely paying attention to whatever she may utter” ? LOL....really ? being one of the headlines, one can hardly miss it, like all the others...
    Quite frankly, commenting on her is as important to me as a fart on a curtain rail.....fact is I don't care about her, one way or the other. She's an Argy problem.

    DT
    If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Alberto on opposite sides (to CFK) regarding Nisman's death ?
    Afaic, their relationship is one of mutual convenience, and will stay that way until it isn't anymore.

    Think has little of interest to say, always beating around the bush to see what'll fly out of it.....just as much chance as getting it right, as getting it wrong.

    Don't doubt for one second that Reekie is sincere....he believes what he says, even though he's not always right.....Think always tries to be smug, for ex., his comment on the 'votes', which he naturally presumes are “Anglo” votes....
    I think it makes more sense to disagree with, or show support for an idea/opinion, by commenting on it, rather than to 'vote'...but as jealousy is a nasty sentiment, and if it'll make Think happier, I think I'll start to give him points...up and down...just to avoid accusations of being biased.

    Feb 11th, 2020 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • sunpacy

    1st this article lied, CFK didn't said that at all. In the other hand the only comment she did about the IMF was why the IMF by their BY Laws don't allow the debtors when restructuring the debt ask for a take away or in the interests or in the main debt but in is BY LAWS the IMF allegedly does not lend money to be used as a currency leak that was what Argentina did or the IMF lent it money to Argentina knowing that Argentina used that money to finance its currency leak. Why the IMF enforces some rules and others do not that was the only thing she said. Alberto Fernandez in the other hand said to the IMF that he is willing to pay everything but not by the suffering of the Argentinean people he said let us grow and we will pay I wont cut pensions, education programs, or health programs de creditors are not Argentinean priority, Argentinean people are. And Jack Bauer don't worry Alberto Fernandez already got several investors from Europe China and Russia. Is hard get investors from US because US and Argentinean economies do not complement well US and Argentina have similar industries so they compete and also America only invest in currency speculation, financial industry and this new government don't care about that anymore the former President Macri loved that Argentina came back to an industrial matrix economy

    Feb 12th, 2020 - 04:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Ahhhhhh...

    - Those Turnipy Anglo political/financial “experts” saying just a couple of days ago that Mme. Cristina Elisabet Fernandez de Kirchner wasn't teamworking...:

    https://en.mercopress.com/2020/02/12/argentina-delays-bond-maturity-date-from-13-feb-to-30-sept-the-country-will-not-be-held-hostage-by-foreign-investors

    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    Capisce...?

    Feb 12th, 2020 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    JB
    ”wasn't Alberto on opposite sides (to CFK) regarding Nisman's death“

    Not sure. Not on her side, but not exactly opposite either, I'd say. And who knows what their relationship is really like, none of us have insider knowledge. If you asked the Argentines posting here you'd probably get a bunch of different answers.

    ”Don't doubt for one second that Reekie is sincere....he believes what he says, even though he's not always right”

    Exactly. Think has a thing against 'Anglos' - unless they support Argentina on the Falklands. Way more important than being a troll or racist creep in his eyes.

    Agree about the voting, I usually reply if I disagree. Not always if I agree with a comment; depends if I have anything to add.

    Sunpacy
    All the papers are reporting she said that. Argentina paid off the IMF in full last time, but maybe the IMF will agree to a delay.

    Macri's government did create currency controls after borrowing from the IMF, but it doesn't seem to have stopped the outflow of capital. And Alberto obviously doesn't have enough investors yet since he had to delay a bond due this month until September. Not his fault though, Macri turned to the IMF earlier for the same reason.

    America would be happy to invest in oil in Argentina, I reckon, but the farming sectors do compete. Doesn't the left oppose US investment anyway?

    Feb 12th, 2020 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    DT
    After Nisman's death, several newspapers (foreign and local (Argentine), reported that Alberto F was skeptical about the official version presented by the CFK administration, i.e., suicide - (one indication, if truthfully reported, was that there was no GSR on the hand that presumably held the gun) - but very recently (Jan 2020) he had a 'change of heart', and declared he saw no reason to not believe Nisman shot himself....what changed ? or is it just politics ? (rhetorical question).

    Agree, ask 10 Argies and you'll probably get 10 different answers, but I think they could be easily grouped into 2 ideological sides, those for, and those against Peronism.

    Have no idea why Stink has it in for Anglos ....would it be because they did a better job than the Argies in building a lot of Argentina's infrastructure, and is bitter about it ? but I'd say he felt he was vindicated when Peron came along, nationalized it all, and dragged Argentina into the shite....And, am sure he believes all the BS about the “Malvinas”, and refuses to acknowledge historical fact. One is born every minute.

    sunpacy
    I can't contest your allegation that the article lied, as I was not in Havana when CFK allegedly said it, however, what is your source, that permits you to categorically state she never did ?......as to the rest of your rambling, a bit confusing, nevertheless I got the gist of it.

    “And Jack Bauer don't worry Alberto Fernandez already got several investors from Europe China and Russia”....thanks for the concern, but I hope that Albertito won't have to lower his pants and bend over to please China & Russia.
    I believe that the USA would be a more natural trading partner, and if it isn't, it's Argentina's loss. Agriculture obviously would be a point of conflict, but bilateral trading is not limited to that. One reason why, IMO, as long as Mercosul prohibits its members to negotiate alone, outside the group, Brazil should leave, and sign a trade treaty with the USA.

    Feb 12th, 2020 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Geeeeeee....

    I feel like poor brownish Meghan..., with those Engrish Anglo Turnips anal-izing me every move...!

    Chuckle..., chuckle..., rechuckle...

    Feb 12th, 2020 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Jack,

    I assume you've seen the Netflix documentary about Nisman.

    Enjoying the beautiful Aconcagua Valley this afternoon with a delicious empanada and iced pear cactus juice. (Madame is in Viña with the grandchildren.)

    We've finished the Flame seedless and starting with our Thompsons. The North American market is outstanding, but we'll still be sending a few to Tesco UK.

    One of the best reasons Chile overcame it’s debt problem was by encouraging exports that are not taxed. Only the net profits are eventually taxed, which is highly advantageous especially now with a strong US dollar.

    I feel the debt problems of my neighbors across the other side of the majestic Andes are nearly impossible to resolve. (Although they have high taxes — tax evasion is a national sport.)
    I recall reading somwhere Earnest Hemingway was asked what it’s like going broke.
    I don’t know if he was actually asked that, but I recall he allegedly responded and I paraphrase, “At first you go broke very slowly and then very quickly.”

    May it be a similar case with the Argentine government slowly realizing they’re busted and they quickly begin to blame each other, like they’ve historically repeated since Juan Peron.
    I’ve always suspected and hoped that another dynamic leader will finally inspire their countrymen to achieve greatness and perhaps they will eventually lay bare just how corrupt many of those at the levers of power are.
    Then they will unexpectedly adopt the unpleasant solution of working harder, eliminate their blatant systemic corruption and expect less from their politicians.

    Tonight's dinner will be fresh baked maraqueta bread with red sweet pepper goat cheese and an ancient Santa Rita 1982 Merlot. (It may be terrible, but I have high hopes…)

    I have to wait for another sunset to know.

    Feb 12th, 2020 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    JB
    Apparently Alberto F most recently said he found it hard to believe it was suicide, but there was no evidence it was murder. There's a man who doesn't want to commit himself.

    “they could be easily grouped into 2 ideological sides, those for, and those against Peronism.”

    Yeah. Peronism was divided for a while, allowing for Macri's election, but they have made up again for now so they'll probably agree. It was a clever move for CFK to put herself forward as Vice-President instead of directly seeking another term.

    I don't know what Think's problem is, either. Don't really understand prejudice.

    Re trading partners, Brazil is currently Argentina's biggest, you probably don't want to encourage them too much to increase ties with the US. ;) But Brazil also competes with the US in food exports, is that not a significant part of the economy?

    Chicureo
    “Then they will unexpectedly adopt the unpleasant solution of working harder, eliminate their blatant systemic corruption and expect less from their politicians.”

    Lol. But I hope you mean less hyperinflation, defaults and IMF loans...

    Has the sun set in Chile now? It's been down for many hours here - you could send me your ancient wine. ;)

    Think
    That's Princess Meghan to you.

    Feb 12th, 2020 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree

    A respectful question to you: Is the former duchess still a princess?

    I just opened the bottle 25 minutes ago and decanted. Although the cork was in terrible condition, the contents were very satisfactory.

    I wish I could share the experience as the combination with the cheese enhanced the first goblet and it truly is a fabulous evening. I raise my glass, CHEERS!

    Feb 12th, 2020 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Ooooooooooooops...

    Seems that the armonious Cristina & Alberto political couple has just been “ménage à trois'ed” by economy minister Guzman...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QFU9gpiAYzk

    Feb 13th, 2020 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Chicureo
    So far as I know she's still a princess and still a duchess. They agreed not to use some of their titles but they still have them. Same with Camilla, she's officially a princess although she's never called herself that. Titles are weird, we should probably abolish most of them and just keep the lowest level as a harmless reward for people who have achieved stuff.

    Can't blame Harry and Meghan for wanting to leave, the tabloids here are vicious and it can't be much of a life cutting ribbons and shaking hands with dignitaries. They probably want to do real jobs and be able to express their opinions freely.

    Glad your wine was good. I had some from 1979 once, one of my friend's relatives bought a few bottles for him the year he was born and his parents kept it all that time. But that was over 10 years ago now so yours was definitely older. Don't remember what kind of wine it was anymore, unfortunately.

    Feb 13th, 2020 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Chicureo
    Don't have Netflix, but how did the documentary portray his death ?

    That's right, keep up the news on your well-prepared menu ; If I didn't appreciate my wife's cooking - simple, tasty 'n nutritive - I'd say I was envious...well, maybe just a bit...LOL.
    Glad to see your '82 merlot was 'very satisfactory' ; obviously was kept in ideal conditions over the last nearly 4 decades. Hope the cork didn't desintegrate.
    As to your Andean neighbour's misfortunes - on which there's a long list - it comes down to bad politics...not only in the last 4 years, or 16, but in the previos 50. Either the political elite changes its mentality, or nothing else will change.

    DT
    Alberto was just doing what 99% of politicians do...supporting whatever benefits them, at the time.

    When CFK announced she'd run as AF's VP, I thought exactly that ...just a strategy to get back into power without opening herself to direct attacks.

    Re Think, neither do I...but he does have a problem...a few posts ago he chuckling over the 'boobies' of Amazon indians...now he's on about being anal-ized ....and 'ménage à trois'....
    sounds like a wee bit of frustration seeps through in his many unwarranted, disrespectful comments.

    While it makes sense to trade with ARG (proximity, 'n despite Mercosul not working particulary well), China is Brazil's most important trading partner (provides the largest surplus).
    ARG has always been an unstable partner, frequently demanding renegotiations when they can't meet their obligations (within Mercosul).
    The USA is the 2nd, and Germany the 4th. Basically it makes sense to trade with countries whose economies are doing well. While both Brazil and the US have gigantic agribusinesses (and compete in certain sectors), there's plenty of other stuff Brazil exports to the US ...soy beans, corn, iron ore, steel, cellulose, paper, lumber, resins, beef, chicken, chemicals, autoparts, chocolate, coffee, FOJ, footwear, leather goods, and other semi-manufactured goods.

    Feb 13th, 2020 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree

    We have still have a few bottles from the 1960s. Unfortunately Chile used inferior corks until the late '70s so we're always uncertain of bottles until opening.

    Following a family tradition, we hoard wine. About 20 years ago, it became truly evident that the new vintages were superior to the ones bottled in the '80s, but we bought an enormous ridiculous quantity —pre-1999 that will probably outlast my children.

    And yes, we've set aside birth vintages of our progeny for the coming decades...

    Saying all that, our normal enjoyment is red vintages post 2014. Whites are all recent.

    Thanks for the aristocracy clarification.

    Feb 13th, 2020 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    JB
    CFK had a lot of fans but also high rejection, I think her running as vice was a lot more palatable for the second group, and AF was a fresh pair of hands.

    By his own account Think is about 190 years old, and lives alone on a horse farm, so it's hardly surprising.

    Argentina does seem awkward as a partner, the K's were supposed to be in favour of Lat Am integration but not so much when it came to trade within Mercosul. What do you think of the trade deal negotiated with the EU? France and Ireland aren't happy with the rules on beef, and AFAIK the EU is still very protectionist over sugar. It's a big industry around here, there's a sugar beet factory near my office, stinks of burnt sugar half the time.

    Chicureo
    Shame about the corks. I've barely seen a real one in years, bottles these days either have a plastic cork or screw tops, which are much easier. Last time was when I bought a Portuguese wine - I believe they grow cork there.

    The birth vintages are a nice idea, but you need somewhere to store them - I'm guessing you have them in your farmhouse? My parents got me a set of coins which is a bit more practical. They're twice the size of the modern ones, but that's inflation for you. It's strange to think those huge wads of pesos we got out of cash machines in Argentina were worth as much as dollars once...

    Are your birth vintages wines you grew yourself? That'd be pretty cool.

    Feb 13th, 2020 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree

    Other than a few amateur wine making attempts, we have never made wine. However we've grown wine grapes for over three generations.

    We have belowground cellars at the farm and in Chicureo — which is admittedly ridiculous, but such is life.

    Our legacy farmland was heavily concentrated for traditional row crops, but we converted what was not seized, over to wine and table grapes in the mid '70s.

    In the late '80s we gambled on avocados and now we have only vineyards on the valley floor where winter/spring frosts are common.

    Our Cabernet, Carménère and a few Cabernet Franc are all sold to a winery. (Concha y Toro, Santa Rita or Viña Errázuriz.)

    We thought about changing our table grapes to wine because of anticipated rising labor costs, but fortunately we didn't and they're still very profitable. (Why I argue with THINK that the recent unrest has only hurt the disadvantaged.)

    I’m again dining this evening as a bachelor, with a roast beef sandwich accompanied with a 2017 Viña Arboleda Carménère that is truly outstanding.

    ¡Salud!

    Feb 14th, 2020 - 12:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • sunpacy

    “sunpacy
    I can't contest your allegation that the article lied, as I was not in Havana when CFK allegedly said it, however, what is your source, that permits you to categorically state she never did ?.”

    Jack The article lied because in any moment of her speech she said that “Argentina will not pay half a cent” if you understand spanish you will see the video that is in YOUTUBE and you tell when she said that. The other thing that you said I am rambling IMF only apply the rules of their own BY LAWS when those rules do not harm them themselves. The IMF by laws do not allow debt or interest reduction, but also their By laws don't allow to lebd money to countries that used those dollars for currency speculation and they lend and lend and lend to Argentina in levels that they knew Argentina wont be able to pay and watching Argentina using the money for currency speculation. Basically Cristina is saying is IMF are to blame too for the debt which make the debt illegitimate so Argentina before pay must investigate the contracts and conditions of that deal. No for nothing everyone who handle that money to Argentina do not work any longer at the IMF no Legarde no David Lipton both responsible for this fraud.

    Feb 14th, 2020 - 02:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Sunpacy
    Minute 34 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P7NeXIRLpc . She was saying that state investment was always essential in Argentina to get out of recession. Didn't say IMF debt specifically, though. Both things were in her speech, what you mentioned about IMF bylaws came earlier.

    Chicureo
    So you could get wine made with your grapes, but by someone else. You never considered starting your own wine-making business?

    Cellars are really rare in the UK, don't know why. All American houses have them, judging by the TV. They're not exactly big wine drinkers, though. Too many puritans, perhaps.

    I'm surprised you get frosts so far north, and near the sea. Suppose it's Europe that has an anomalous climate, really. There are vineyards even in England, but most years there is not enough sun in summer for good wine.

    Why do table grapes have a higher labour cost than wine grapes? Something to do with how they are picked?

    Wish I had someone to cook for me... I'm alone for the next week and I can never be bothered when it's just me.

    Feb 14th, 2020 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree

    As the rest of central Chile, the Aconcagua Valley is a patchwork of micro-climates. Mother Nature can be a real bitch during spring and severly damage the crop. Since the late '70s we've suffered three devastating late Spring frosts that completely destroyed our grape crops.

    Although wine machine harvest is an alternative, we hand harvest our wine grapes. It's a simple operation as they are just cut and dumped into large gondolas directly destined to the winery.

    Table grapes, including pre- harvest require substancial handwork in thining the individual bunches, and folage management. The intense hand labor takes place in the harvest, were the bunches are carefully trimmed and carefully packed in boxes. Once palletized, the grapes are rapidly pre-cooled and the placed into coldstorage until shipment.

    Making your own wine requires an enormous capital investment which would have been incompatible with our family financial model. In 2002 I bought out my cousins interests in the farm and assumed a tremendous debt to convert over to avocado production.

    It was at that time a very uncertain and risky decision.

    Feb 14th, 2020 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    DT
    “CFK had a lot of fans but also high rejection”...I agree....and to counter the rejection it was better to stay in the background. Now that she's in, wonder for how long she'll be content to sit in the back seat..

    Remember Stink talking about his sheep....wonder if he ever indulged in bestiality ?

    Perhaps the K's idea of integration was more political, along the lines of the Foro de SP, and trade a a sloppy second...that's why CF got on so well with Lula.....who knows ?

    The details of how the trade deal with the EU will work exactly still need to be sorted out...true that a few EU partners aren't happy, and while it's only normal to want to maintain a certain level of independence (protectionism ?), got to be careful that the benefits, both on an individual level (as much as they can) and the collective level / overall, are reciprocal. Some will benefit more than others, some will have to sacrifice more....it's the way the cookie crumbles.

    ”(wine) Cellars are really rare in the UK, don't know why. All American houses have them, judging by the TV.”

    Big, climatized wine cellars, only millionaires.....wine refrigerators are pretty common, those that hold up to about 40 bottles....while the US is the largest consumer overall (consumption in 2018 was 3,26 billion litres), Portugal has the largest consumption 'per capita', over 60 litres /year, but can't forget that the tourists probably contribute to that.
    Those in the US, that make a habit of drinking wine, do drink quite a bit, far more than the average, of 12 litres/year. I consume about 55 litres / year, so I'm helping to increase the Brazilian average, which is a paltry 2.5 lts.

    sunpacy
    Ok, tks for the video...“Basically Cristina is saying is IMF are to blame too for the debt which make the debt illegitimate”....well, that is relative, it takes two make a fight....however, agree that the IMF was kinda irresponsible to lend ARG so much....if not all spent, why don't they give part of it back ?

    Feb 14th, 2020 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Jack

    Our farm cellar was essentially used for storing fruit, vegetables and even cured meat a century ago. It maintains a relative even year round level of temperature and humidity.

    Feb 14th, 2020 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Chicureo
    Sounds awful, I've lost a few plants to late frosts, can't imagine losing everything. How cold does it get there?

    Thanks for explaining the harvesting, makes sense you have to take more care with the table grapes. Sounds like your risky decision is paying off, anyway.

    Are you gonna say how much wine you drink in the year? You seem to have a different bottle every evening...

    JB
    I'd rather not wonder about Think, thanks.

    Yes, the K's were definitely more interested in political integration. But considering they wanted to be less dependent on the US, and EM's 'central countries', it would've made sense to build trade links with their Mercosur allies.

    Problem for the EU is they need to keep 27 different countries happy, and balance the costs and benefits for each. France isn't going to vote for a deal that lets Germany sell more cars but hurts their own beef industry. At least Mercosur only has 4 members to argue over things.

    Okay, American houses don't have wine cellars, but they all seem to have a basement. Though that may be the *least* climate controlled part of the house, given they also all have air conditioning. Does wine really need to be kept in a fridge? What about just a cool part of the house?

    Don't think I'll be drinking much for a while, but my wine consumption was probably closer to the Brazilian average than yours. What do they drink instead, Cachaça?

    Re the IMF loan, they did give part of it back. AF refused the last $11 bn, and the IMF had put some on hold before that so now they owe 'only' $44 bn instead of $57 bn. The downside is they couldn't pay off the last lot of bonds and they've given themselves a very short deadline to get an agreement with creditors. Plus they want to continue to run a deficit for the next few years, so they'll have to get money from somewhere.

    Feb 14th, 2020 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree

    From my personal experience, Jack's countrymen consume vast quantities of beer. Always served very cold.

    Our farm early spring nighttime temperature lows average 4-7 degrees, but we've actually experienced as low as -5 degrees. (That is why our avocado trees are on the frost free hillsides.)

    We have real time sensors that track the chilled air roll down the hillsides and settle on the valley floor, where it results in frost damage.

    As far as wine consumption, we easily go through 6-7 bottles a week. (Depends on the number at our table, as Madam for example, arrived from Viña for lunch with company.)

    Feb 14th, 2020 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    I've never seen a Brazilian beer, do barley and hops even grow there? Can understand wanting it cold though, in that climate.

    Your spring lows are surprisingly similar to ours. I'm guessing the summer highs are not, however. It's a similar latitude to BA, right? My partner somehow managed to get burned there on a cloudy day.

    The sensors sound very high tech, but what can you do if you detect cold air coming down? Put a giant blanket over the field?

    And you really do have a different bottle of wine every day! Easier to get through it if you have guests. Here they've started selling tiny bottles in the supermarkets, which is much more convenient if you're the only one drinking, but the selection is very limited unfortunately.

    Feb 15th, 2020 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Chicureo
    Advantage of underground cellars is the relatively cool, stable temperature 'n humidity, at no extra cost.

    DT
    “...wanted to be less dependent on the US etc...” Don't see how a good trade relationship with any country can be harmful, or lead to paranoia of 'being dependent on“...

    Soundest policy is to trade with as many countries as possible, 'n that alone, reduces dependence on any single one of them ; the US used to be Brazil's main trading partner, but Lula, claiming 'too dependent', ”abandoned“ the US by relegating it to status of no longer a top priority...'; so what did he do ? he prioritized trade with other countries with little or nothing to offer in return, purely in function of political alignment.
    China's become Brazil's top partner, 'n in the process has ruined some of Brazil's traditional industries.
    Brazil started becoming less protectionst in early 90s ; before that, imports were generally restricted to what Brazil couldn't supply itself, even if technologically backward.

    While Mercosur, in concept, makes sense, it's still full of problems, 'n does not allow its members to sign bilateral agreements with others...which is detrimental to Brazil.

    ”would've made sense to build trade links with Mercosur allies”....It did, still does, but ARG unfortunately rarely keeps its end of the deal.

    Despite the EU's maturity in comparison with Mercosul, can well imagine the problem of keeping all 27 members happy.

    Most basements I've seen in the US ('n Canada) are used as storage or as extra living space, not wine cellars.
    Wine's best kept at controlled temperature (red,17° C; white, 5-7), 'n away from heat / light. If you don't have wine fridge, lie the (corked) bottles on their side in a cupboard in the coolest place in the house.

    Beer, # 1 = consumption's 2 billion litres / year ; 'cachaça', # 2, at 1.3 billion litres/yr...taken pure, or in 'caipirinhas'.

    Ok, regarding the IMF etc, still a big problem...let's see how it turns out.

    Feb 15th, 2020 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    JB
    “Don't see how a good trade relationship with any country can be harmful”

    You answered the question yourself; trading with as many countries as possible is the best option. If you rely too much on any one, you can suffer when they have a recession or elect Trump (or CFK) and slap tariffs on your exports. Also if the other country has a much larger economy they're going to have more power when trying to negotiate a deal. Being dependent on China isn't any better than being dependent on the US, though.

    I don't agree with CFK that state investment is the only way out of recession. There's also exporting, but that's not a promising option right now with Brazil also in recession, China in the doldrums and America all protectionist. Argentina is kinda stuck.

    IMO not allowing bilateral deals is a problem mostly because of Argentina - they love electing protectionist governments who aren't interested in multilateral (or any) deals, so what's the point of them being in Mercosul?

    I don't know why they don't build basements here for the same purpose as in the US - would make sense what with the government-mandated cramped housing. Maybe they're expensive to dig out or maybe it's just custom. Are they common in Brazil?

    The new house came with a broken fridge, which we put some drinks in. No idea what temperature it is, but definitely not the right one. Does wine still need to be on it's side if it doesn't have a real cork? Cos the only wines that still have those are the sparkling ones.

    Re the IMF, we'll soon see if the new government is able to make a deal or not. Otherwise there'll probably be another default, and won't that be fun? And Sunpacy has not returned... wasted my time finding that 'half a cent' line in the video for him.

    Feb 15th, 2020 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    DT
    While I agree that “trading with as many countries as possible is best option”, I'd rather depend on the US than China, for the simple reason that China's exports to Brazil, are non-essential...stuff that Brazil used to produce but whose industries couldn't compete with China's manipulated currency 'n salary policies...imports from the US on the other hand, did not the cause the closure of Brazilian factories.

    Agree, state-investment, while necessary in certain areas - in which private investors aren't interested, due to low return or 'programmed losses - is not the way to go, unless the economy is basically state-run...and, there's tons of money in the safe.

    Government should stick to public services...health, safety, education, popular housing, social programmes etc (sometimes, infrastructure)...the private sector is usually better prepared/more efficient in the other areas, providing better service (presuming the State's regulatory agencies do their job to avoid abuse), with the exception of, I remember you commenting on, UK railroads.

    That's why I think Brazil should leave Mercosul...the other main partner just lets us down all the time.

    No, basements are very rare...but would imagine no more expensive than digging a pool 'n putting a floor over it...perhaps someone who's familiar with them might invest in a basement when/if they build their own house...and if it's on high ground.

    Only wine corked with real corks (fm the cork oak tree), need to be laid down....the plastic/other corks are too dense /don't allow any air in, so they produce the same effect as screw caps. Put a thermometre in yr broken fridge to check the temperature.
    Aged wines, or with a long 'shelf-life' (usually expensive) still invest in real cork. As most wine produced today is 'young', to be consumed within 3 or 4 years (red), or 2 (whites), screw caps do the job 'n are much cheaper. If good quality real corks were used in cheap wine, they'd cost more than the wine

    Feb 15th, 2020 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree & Jack

    I'm impressed that Brazil has acheived lower crime rates.

    You can safely store any wine for easily a few months standing up without worry. Warm temperatures and sunlight however are very detrimental.

    As I earlier posted sometime ago, Brazil can grow virtually almost every crop imaginable. Once I flew in a private aircraft at a relatively low altitude on a fairly cloudless day, from Sao Paulo to Petrolina. Although I knew the geography, the visual experience was spectacular.

    The farms I saw from the air were endless. (BTW they grow a lot of hops and barley in the south.)

    Regarding temperatures, we have real-time wireless monitoring of numerous locations in our fields, reporting soil moisture, air temperature, humidity and UV intensity. We even have alarms to automatically advise us of abnormalities. (We also have the capability to monitor in the air with our new UAVs.)

    They actually sell close-mesh netting that’s very effective to combat freezing and in the old days they used scattered bonfires, but today we use irrigation micro-emitters to raise the humidity during critical periods. (Some growers are even utilizing specialized bacteria.)

    Experiencing a massive crop loss due to frost, is a hard punch to your gut, but watching it happen in real-time… —the dreadful helplessness you feel is horrible…

    Anyway, it’s past now sunset and I’m again enjoying conjugal company sharing a spectacular 2014 Don Maximiliano.

    ¡Saludos!

    Feb 16th, 2020 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    JB
    China has that effect on most countries, unfortunately. They don't even need trade deals, their exports are just cheap. But was the US even buying the raw materials that Brazil exported to China? AFAIK most of the increase was due to growth and higher demand in the latter.

    I didn't say state investment was never the way to go, just that it's not the only one. For example, China, having built up their economy through export, is now trying to increase domestic demand, to make it more self-sustaining. As for the railways, the government didn't do a good job running them either, but there's something a bit wrong when half the franchises are run by publicly owned companies from other countries, who get all the profits. Not to mention South Western Railways still have a contract somehow, although they've been a disaster from the start.

    Probably if you just dig a hole and put a floor over it it would flood. About a foot of the side wall of our old garage was below ground level and in winter water would ooze through after heavy rain. Brazil has a rainy season, that could go badly...

    “Only wine corked with real corks, need to be laid down”

    That's what I thought. Screw caps are much more convenient, too. Avoids those awkward times when you don't have a corkscrew, and easy to put back on if you don't finish the bottle. Most of the price of cheap wine in the UK is tax, though. £3.06 on a £5 bottle.

    Chicureo
    That flight sounds amazing. My flight back from Argentina passed over Brazil and it was pretty spectacular even from that height. I saw a chain of mountains that formed a perfectly straight line, never could work out what they were. Also flew over Petrolina and laughed at the name. Just before sunset the light was reflecting off thousands of rivers and lakes in the Amazon, and then we passed out to sea and the crescent moon came out, lying flat on its back.

    I'm amazed you can use bonfires to keep your crops warm. Here they cover fields in low tech plastic sheeting.

    Feb 16th, 2020 - 12:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Chicureo
    A Don Maximiano 2014 ? superb wine and a great choice....as I said, here about US$ 140...only on very special occasions...like the wife's birthday.

    DT
    The main raw materials we sent to the US in the 80s/90s, were iron ore, steel plate, cellulose, resins, chemicals, newsprint....later on, when China came into the picture, they started buying soy beans, iron ore, steel products and a lot of agricultural stuff, but afai remember, what China started to buy did not 'impact' Brazil's sales to the US.

    “I didn't say state investment was never the way to go, just that it's not the only one”

    I'm not contesting that, I agree. But the State needs to prioritize areas typical of non-profit public services, allowing the private sector to look after what they are better at.
    It's notorious that the State is not a particularly good administrator, allowing a lot of waste (after all, the general mentality is the money is not generated by them, so if wasted, too bad), not so common in the private sector...and taxpayers money needs to be spent diligently.

    That is the big Chinese headache....spread the wealth to 100s of millions.

    If a public service, or a concession is not properly run, govt needs to intervene to get to the root of the problem / find solutions.

    Even pools need to be waterproofed so as to avoid leaks..if the water table is high, or it's in low lying ground, you can have problems (flooding).

    Seems your (overall) tax on wine is no higher than ours...we have so many obscure taxes built into the consumer price, all in a kind of grey area, you never know what your paying, unless you know the price at origin.
    The problem with half-bottles, besides the smaller variety, is that the price is usually higher than 50% of the full bottle (normally 750 ml - but have seen 1 litre bottles fm Chile).
    Magum (1,5 litres) or double magnum bottles (3 litres) are great for parties, and funnily enough, proportionately more expensive than their multiple of 750 ml bottles.

    Feb 16th, 2020 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Jack & DemonTree



    I again a bachelor again today. We still have another week or so to finish our Thompson Seedless. Quality has been exceptional this season.



    On Valentine's Day we celebrated with an Almaviva 2014 red that truthfully not anywhere as nice as the Don Maximilliano.



    The Baron Philippe de Rothschild and Concha Y Toro joint venture has always claimed to be a “super premium”, but truthfully we will never buy them anymore.



    Screw top caps for wine bottles are practical, but I'm a traditionalist. The U.K. Was responsible for convincing the wine industry to transition to screw caps, but the Americans and Chinese seem to prefer corks.



    A couple of years ago, Madam Defarge brought home a “bag-in-box” Chardonnay that she kept in the refrigerator. The system works well, but the wineries use inferior wine in Chile.



    Using field fires in Chile to battle fire protection was abandoned when we learned to use advanced farming technology. Even if the water freezes from the micro-spray irrigation method, the foliage and fruit buds will sustain because the temperature will modulate at 0 degrees as the water freezes. (Damage occurs below -1 degrees.)



    Another technique is to use a tractor pulled blower spray unit through the most susceptible areas to move the cold air.



    Our wireless monitoring system is from California. https://www.davisinstruments.com/usecase/agriculture/ Another Israeli company provides comparable soil and foliage monitors that integrate into our system. We're still stymied trying to incorporate the UAV-drone sensors feed into the software program — for the coming winter.



    When we purchased the hillsides in the mid'70s, there were countless boulders that were larger than an automobile. The solution of my father and uncle was to build enormous bonfires alongside the monstrous rocks during the winter days; then allow the cold nights to cause the cooling boulders to break in pieces. Very primitive, but effective. (

    Feb 16th, 2020 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    JB
    Better for Brazil that the exports to China were added to the US ones, rather than replacing them. Helps explain the boom during that time period. Brazil is competing with the US to sell China aricultural products though, things might get tougher now the US and China have signed a deal.

    It makes sense for the state to take a hand in areas essential to the economy, like oil in Norway or copper in Chile. Part ownership of companies without too much political interference seems to work pretty well. Also for natural monopolies it can make sense to have the state run them. It may not do a better job than a private company, but at least it gives the customers/voters some control over it.

    I think they probably will re-bid the failing rail franchise, just takes time. But the government seems unwilling to recognise when something isn't working. In the previous round of franchises the East Coast Main Line had to be renationalised, and the government-owned service had one of the better records. Nonetheless they handed it over to another private company in the next round of franchises, and the same thing happened again. Maybe they'll learn their lesson this time?

    Spreading the wealth is really a problem for most middle income countries. Brazil has especially high inequality and it's always lead to problems. Hell, it's becoming a problem for developed countries now, as globalisation and automation lead to the loss of secure jobs and wealth becomes increasingly concentrated at the top.

    High taxes in Brazil help explain why wine isn't drunk much. Still doesn't seem right that consumption taxes are as high in Brazil as in rich countries. Any chance Guedes will lower them?

    I'm guessing the giant bottles cost more because there is low demand and they require different equipment to manufacture, fill, and transport. They might not even use less glass, since they'd need to be proportionately stronger than small ones.

    No room to reply to you, Chicureo...

    Feb 16th, 2020 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree & Jack

    Yes, I too ran out of space.

    Although Chile nationalised our copper industry, it allowed new private investment that produce more copper than our state owned company at lower costs.

    I'm bored, as everything is going well without supervision.

    Tonight's dinner will be an empanada, grapes and a humble 2018 Viña Santa Rita 120 Carménère that we bought at less than $26k pesos a case, or about US$2.70 a bottle.

    Feb 16th, 2020 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Chicureo
    Which is better at producing profits for taxpayers, the private copper producers or the public one?

    Your wine costs less than the duty in the UK, let alone adding in the VAT, transport and the cost of the wine itself. Still, it's worse in Scotland; with their new minimum pricing a bottle of wine that strength would cost over £5. Too bad they can't do the one thing that would really reduce boozing: improve the climate.

    Box wines have improved a lot in recent years, they used to have a terrible reputation but seem to be just as good as bottles these days. Maybe your wineries will catch up.

    I presume the micro-spray only works if the temp is not too far below 0? Otherwise I imagine you'll end up with something like this:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e0/d7/3b/e0d73b2172c7720ef8e44eaaf89b2d32.jpg

    Using bonfires to break up the boulders is a clever trick even if it's not high-tech. Sometimes the simple things are the best.

    I made pasta for dinner. Not very exciting but better than a ready meal.

    And I hope you stay bored if that is the reason. ;)

    Feb 16th, 2020 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree & Jack

    Making pasta is a wonderful option if it's done properly. It's the fine details of preparation and how it's dressed.

    Bulk wine from Chile in enormous bags are exported for distributers to package as they wish.

    Regarding your photograph: As long as ice continues to form, the temperature contact point remains at 0 degrees. Once the air humidity drops and the micro-spray of water stops — the damage occurs. Even the bacteria present on the foliage affects the ice crystal formation.

    A grower can only fight in a narrow temperature spectrum. Minus 3 degrees is a death sentence and c'est la vie...

    CODELCO remains a major revenue source for Chile, but it suffers from mismanagement, but the private mining companies compliment the economy in taxes and wages that are very important for my country's economy.

    My jaded take on income disparity is to provide economic opportunities for the poor to improve their lives. As I've mentioned before' the greatest disservice to the lower income wage earners, was our former President's program to accept a large influx of non-Latin immigrants resulting in higher unemployment and depressing wages.

    I opened the Carménère as the case had not even been opened and it's definitely too young. It needs to rest for another 4 to 6 years.

    I'll still be drinking the remainder tomorrow. Cheers!

    Feb 17th, 2020 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Chicureo
    Have had a couple Almavivas in the last year, 'n imo, not comparable to D.Maximiano.
    Regarding the screw cap, may have been an English dude who invented it, but the push for use on wine bottles occurred in Australia (70s/80s, Yalumba, Penfolds)...While the real cork may be seen as 'romantic', can also be a nuisance. But you can't discuss preferences.

    The problem with the BIB is that it was initially used for cheap wines....the stigma stuck . Later on, after realizing its convenience (restaurants, 50 litre boxes, wine by the glass), it was used for slightly better than 'entry' wines (not expensive, or long shelf-life wines) ..but it's very convenient, just open the fridge 'n press a valve. And today, in many cases, just as good as some bottled wines (mentioned by DT).
    The Santa Rita 120 carménère might be humble, but at US$ 9/bottle (here), very enjoyable.

    DT
    “and wealth becomes increasingly concentrated at the top”...agree, and even in China that has happened...and they've got a monumental task ahead of them to make their capitalism more palatable.

    Wine drinking is very small in Brazil, not only because of taxes, because you CAN buy cheap wine - US$ 4 or 5/bottle - but because it requires a more refined palate to enjoy it, and, 'pinga' ('unclassified' version of 'cachaça') is very cheap (US$ 2/bottle) 'n makes you drunk much faster (what many look for)...you can buy good cachaça straight from the source (abt USD 8/bottle) and there are quite a lot of special cachaças, in the USD 20 range...and you can go beserk 'n spend up to USD 100-200 for very famous, premium cachaças (imo, no better than the far lower priced ones, just snobishness).

    The magnum wine bottles are normal glass...I have a few. Re manufacturing, don't see that as a problem...paying double the price when you only want 750 ml might be a problem...filling them would require (adjustable ? or) different equipment. Transport itself would make little difference, but special packaging would

    Feb 17th, 2020 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Jack & DemonTree

    Feb 17th, 2020 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    Chicureo
    I expect Madame Defarge would not approve of me using pesto from a jar. :)

    It sounds like your farm is unfortunately vulnerable to climate change, either a slightly colder spring, or drier weather. Do you have any plans for if/when it happens.

    “CODELCO remains a major revenue source for Chile...”

    You could be a politician with that answer. ;)

    Re income disparity, that's why you need unions as well as jobs, to ensure workers get a fair share of the wealth they are helping to create.

    JB
    Wow, that cachaça is VERY cheap. When I was young I preferred what would get me drunk fast and cheaply, but now it's just the opposite. I want something good so I can enjoy the taste, and if it's too strong that limits how much you can have.

    I expect the adjustable or diff equipment is the main extra cost for magnums. Would be a much smaller production line so you don't get the economies of scale. If they're normal glass, does that mean they're easier to break? There was a story in the news about a man who bought a £30,000 magnum of champagne in a club and dropped it on the floor.

    Feb 17th, 2020 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Another beautiful sunset here. Your story about the dropped Champagne is frightful.

    DemonTree & Jack
    Its sunset now and I've returned to yesterday’s open Carménère that’s nicely mellowed, but convinces me the remaing 11 bottles need to rest until 2027-28.
    Regarding cheap liquor, although wine was cheap, Pisco was the cheapest and preferred drink of my youth. (Pisco is the evil cousin of Cachaça.)
    I personally have no problem with unions, but the labor oversupply is so disporportate to demand, collective bargaining is futile.
    You may not believe me, but we prefer to pay well above the norm because we are able to select the best workers. We obtain in result higher productivity and less theft. (That applies to year-round and seasonal laborers.)

    ¡Saludos!

    Feb 17th, 2020 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Chicureo
    Am surprised that your ‘humble’ 2018 Viña Santa Rita 120 Carménère would last so long, even under ideal conditions…hope it does, for your sake !

    DT
    “Wow, that cachaça is VERY cheap. When I was young I preferred what would get me drunk fast ‘n cheaply, but now it's just the opposite”.
    The $ 2 'pinga' (can't be classified as 'cachaça') does the trick, but it's rotgut....guaranteed to give you a hangover and a splitting headache, if you have too much.
    Glad to see that your palate has become more refined with age.

    Regarding the magnum/double magnum bottles, economy of scale (demand) as you said, most likely accounts for higher price. I wouldn't say 'easier' to break, perhaps even harder to break….the glass is proportionately thicker.
    A few years ago I bought some Montes Alpha cabernet-sauvignon magnums...Have drank them all, but kept one empty bottle as a showpiece in my bar. Got home one day, to discover it had gone to the garbage...wasn’t very pleased.

    And what was wrong with the guy who broke the £ 30,000 magnum ? didn’t he like champagne, or was he testing it to see how resistant the bottle was ?

    Not long ago I was getting some whisky out of the bedroom closet and accidentally knocked over a bottle ( a Jameson Caskmates)…it fell 7 feet to the floor 'n landed on its head …only the cap was dented…a real miracle for which I was thankful…would’ve been a terrible waste.
    The other day was reading an article on whisky, when corks are used for closure - it read (re corks) :: “That's fine for wine, but the higher proof of whiskey will tear into the cork and chew it up. Then again, stand them up, and the cork may dry out and no longer seal the bottle, letting the whiskey evaporate and go stale and nasty and cloudy”.

    Think I'll lay all my unopened whisky bottles, with a cork, on their side...several corks of (old) bottles (of J.Walker Green Label, Robbie Dhu, Cardhu single malt) broke when I opened them, but champagne corks saved the day.

    Feb 19th, 2020 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    JB
    “Glad to see that your palate has become more refined with age.”

    I also have more money compared to when I was a student. :) And don't recover from overindulgence as quickly, sadly. Do you know about the splitting headache from experience?

    Shame about your magnum bottle. I've seem empty ones displayed in pubs for the same reason, along with even bigger sizes. The fool who broke the bottle just dropped it trying to get the cork out. Probably got excited and had sweaty hands. Not sure it's even true, I found the same video on different news sites claiming to be from different places with different prices given for the bottle.

    One of my friends once dropped a bottle of wine on the tile floor of his kitchen from chest height. We were all happy it didn't smash until we realised it had cracked the big tile it landed on - luckily he had some spares, but much more annoying and expensive to fix than cleaning up some glass and wine.

    Chicureo
    My partner has been skiing in the Pyrenees, luckily at one of the few resorts that still has snow. Apparently it is basically summer there; too hot even skiing in a tshirt and the remaining snow is solid ice in the morning and slush by afternoon. Next week is forecast to be even warmer and no snow predicted... wonder if any of those resorts will still be open in 10 years' time?

    Feb 19th, 2020 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    DT

    Slower recovery is a fact of life...inevitable.

    As a teenager and in my twenties, I had my fair share of them......the worst is when you put your head down on the pillow and it seems that the bed takes off and flies unevenly through space...felt a bit like riding a virtual mechanical bull.

    Every time I had too much, I knew that would happen- never let me down - I used to force myself to drink a litre of water...worked more or less.

    Feb 19th, 2020 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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