MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Chile, once the darling of foreign investors, struggling with coronavirus, inequality and poor public services
Chile's government is struggling to control a coronavirus outbreak that could revive mass social unrest as its hospital system comes under increasing pressure. With a population of 18 million, Chile is reporting new Covid-19 cases at a pace comparable to that of Spain at the peak of the virus' spread in March, on a per capita basis, and resources are close to maxed out in Latin America's wealthiest economy. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesWow!
May 29th, 2020 - 06:08 am - Link - Report abuse -1“...fighting to...protect workers' jobs, household incomes, the survival of companies, and to reactivate our economy and our capacity to get back on our feet... deserves a great national agreement,” Mr Piñera said.
It appears the darlings of old Milton Friedman's monetarist theories are now realizing the virtues of Keynesian economic reactivation principles.
Of course, the proof will be in the pudding.
@ reeky: “...old Milton Friedman's monetarist theories...”
May 29th, 2020 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +1----------
It's curious and telling that reeky prefers the opposing [Argentine] model that provides massive levels of political and social corruption, a currency that devalues visibly each week, 50 percent annual inflation, and some 40 percent of the population living in poverty.
Marti Llazo
May 29th, 2020 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Milton Friedman's monetarist theories and his Chicago Boys disciples saved my country from complete financial ruin — greatly caused by our glorious Marxist socialist visionaries that Enrique loves to praise, almost as much as his highly successful Venezuelan progressives which he admires.
Nothing more offensive than a free market capitalistic economy and an independent central bank with prudent fiscal spending — makes Enrique's blood boil and him shouting ¡Viva la revolución!
Pathetic!
“Nothing more offensive than a free market capitalistic economy and an independent central bank with prudent fiscal spending”
May 29th, 2020 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Hmm. He doesn't seem to mind living in a country with those things...
@chicureo
May 29th, 2020 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Actually I don't think Reeky shouts ¡viva la revolución! so much as ....Hasta la victoria siempre, camarada. Or maybe... hasta el fracaso...
The unambiguous recurring failures of Argentina's economy and its rejection by the OECD (which brought in Mexico and Chile) should be ample evidence of Reeky's unwavering permanent cheering for the wrong horse.
Marti
May 30th, 2020 - 01:55 am - Link - Report abuse +1Enrique longs for the patriotic hymnal of my teens:
“Venceremos, venceremos,
con Allende en septiembre a vencer.
Venceremos, venceremos,
¡la Unidad Popular al poder!”
My heroine said it best of all:
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
The Venezuelans can reliably confirm this profacy...
Chicureo and Martillazo, united to fight the leftist invasion of the MP Comments Section, sound like old relics of a bygone, Cold War era during which the simple mention of the dreaded “S” or, God forbid, the “C” word that make them apoplectic.
May 30th, 2020 - 05:06 am - Link - Report abuse -3Anyway, I realize Chicureo needs some help to divert attention from the damning information contained in the above MP story that resumes well the current state of the former free-market success story country.
And the argument he believes will send shudders through MP readers is what? Well: nothing else than a good, old mix of scarecrow words such as socialism, communism, Salvador Allende, Unidad Popular and so on. You get the picture.
Marti gives a hand talking about Argentina -- which by the way is faring pretty well against the coronavirus pandemic under the guidance of the fresh government of Alberto Fernandez.
But let's go back to the topic at hand. I believe MP's headline is self-explanatory:
“Chile, once the darling of foreign investors, struggling with coronavirus, inequality and poor public services.”
Poor Chile! Or rather, poor Chileans. Did you know that, among other peculiar things, Chileans cannot collect rainwater for their own use? If they did, they could be charged. Why? Because Chile, under the dictatorship of Pinochet privatized the whole thing. So if you got money you get water -- you don't you get thirsty.
That was the underlying problem with Chile's mythological economic success story. A deep, crude, cruel inequality hidden by the global numbers.
Well. If the demonstrators are unhappy, they should tell them they are so lucky to have been delivered from Socialism. I am sure they will be so veeeery thankful for that.
You only want to talk about economic problems and suffering in free-market economies.
May 30th, 2020 - 01:08 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Economic problems and suffering in socialist economies does not need to be brought up.
They have empty wallets and are only able to get food through government handouts.
In those socialist countries, people suffering there, can be thankful at least they are faring well pretty well against the corona virus pandemic”.
I am sure they will be so veeery thankful for that.
@Reeky
May 30th, 2020 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +2That last Reeky comment was so full of shite that it's laughable. He seems to forget -- and let's say it again--- that some 40 percent of the Argentines are living in poverty.
Let that sink in. It certainly won't get past Reeky's filters.
His notions about water law practices in Chile are also off the mark. I personally own two properties in southern Chile which have totally free, gravity fed water from local mountains. Free. No state fees, no permits, no bureaucracy stealing funds as you would have in Argentina. Likewise I've visited water harvest projects in the north of Chile which are totally unregulated. So Reeky again is simply lying to us. Larger water projects where there are scarce resources are indeed sometimes regulated, as in the civilised nations. But it's also a sometimes.
Even before the pandemic, the chilenitos enjoyed considerably higher per capita GDP than Argentina, with lower tax rates. And a great deal less corruption eating up the rest. Of course, no one will ever be able to get Reeky to understand how much peronist corruption keeps the country from any hope of being successful, solvent, or respectable.
Marti (or should I say vecino) and bushpilot
May 30th, 2020 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Obviously from personal bias, in my opinion — Chile is the least corrupt and modern country in South America. (There are several videos on YouTube advising our fellow Latin American visitors to educate them that bribing our Carabineros will result in prosecution.)
Also, the supposed “unfair” laws Enrique refers to is mendacious, because prior to the new water legislation in Santiago — raw sewage was dumped into the Rio Mapocho that runs through the heart of our capital — and prior to the modern sewage treatment plants, the filthy water caused illness (including Typhus outbreaks downstream) which made the vegetables grown unsafe for consumption.
It's also interesting to point out that the supposedly unfair municipal water/sanitation legislation was passed DURING the democratic Ricardo Lagos presidential administration. (Noteably, Lagos was, and remains a socialist.)
Finally, I ask Enrique to submit a single Latin American country that is as progressive and successful as mine. (Costa Rica and Panama deserves consideration. And I do love Uruguay, but I've known them personally and know their unfortunate flaws.)
And of course, IF it wasn't for corruption and political stupidity — Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, Colombia and Peru all should have been some of the wealthiest countries in the world, by far!
I'm happy that Enrique's family enjoys the security and wealth of Canada, where I was briefly posted during my naval career and I sincerely have great affection. I do think Enrique should move himself to the modern metropolis of Caracas were he will find a self-imposed paradise...
Or perhaps he should come to my humble country and experience just how ugly it truly is: https://youtu.be/3MtdmoxZgRM
There is a large Venezulean diaspora here that I'd love to introduce to Enrique, because I'm certain they'd all like to beat the shite out of him...
I am not understanding the title.
May 30th, 2020 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't see why the phrase, “once the darling of foreign investors” was inserted into it.
Nowhere in the article is foreign investment mentioned.
What does a supposed decline in foreign investment have to do with the topic of the article?
Or is it because serious journalism resorts to eyecatching titles to get people to read the article regardless of how well the title describes the topic?
Have the current problems in Chile resulted in less foreign investment more so than to other countries in the current global depression?
Is foreign investment now being directed towards other South American countries?
For example, is another country, perhaps Argentina, the new “darling” of foreign investment?
bushpilot
May 30th, 2020 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Regarding your last sentence, the rumor on the Latin America dance floor, is the sexy porteña with the sultry look in her eyes wearing a tight dress is a thieving whore with the clap...
I assume you know about my country's recent presidential history of Bachelet - Piñera - Bachelet - Piñera... In a move to advance social progress, Bachelet substantially increased taxes which resulted in a severe slowdown of investment by both Chileans as well as foreigners.
The specific special tax shelters specifically to attract foreign investment were eliminated at just about the same period both Peru and Colombia — created highly similar laws designed to attract foreign investment (including from Chile) that was very successful. (Obviously, the stabilized political environment it those two countries helped as well.)
During Piñera's second presidency, several of the investment incentives returned and although his initial plan was to lower capital gains taxes — after the riots early this year... taxes will now increase.
So I sadly would agree that Chile WAS the darling, but now just simply a wallflower at the dance. Fortunately for Chile, many of the remaining dance-partner-thieving-whores have a really bad reputation.
Saying that, individuals with fixed investment assets with almost all their operating costs in Chilean pesos and earn their profits from exports in US$ due to the current exchange rate will probably realize enormous return on investment.
¡Salud!
@bushpilot: “....is another country, perhaps Argentina, the new “darling” of foreign investment?”
May 30th, 2020 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +1-- Not for anyone with responsibility and common sense. Argentina's anti-business government (read: peronist) have no plan or even concept for how to get the country out of the pit in which it has been for many years, largely due to industries that not competitive and are essentially sheltered workshops. That pit looks a lot like “chronic recession” and recession is what is in store for Argentina for most of the next decade unless monumental changes are made, and no such improvements are likely. Other than the usual pattern of theft. When things are not going well, which is most of the time, Argentine governments take to overt theft, which doesn't sit well with investors with long memories. Sometimes that takes the form of converting dollar accounts (always at risk in this country) and forcibly converting them to worthless pesos at rates only convenient to the government. And with the rapidly crashing AR peso, that is a real possibility. That would be a way to add to the already overwhelming rates of poverty in Argentina that peronism has produced.
Other forms of Argentine theft include expropriation of both domestic and foreign investment, such as CFK did with Repsol -- and ended up with considerably increasing Argentina's national debt after the peronistas discovered they could not get away with it and would have to pay several billion dollars for this “nationalisation” of private holdings. In theory, Argentina's creditors should demand properly valued and unencumbered portions of the shares of those many nationalised industries but there is little chance of such a thing happening.
So while Chile has ceased to be the safe investment place, Argentina has gone one step further in the wrong direction, and made itself a permanent pariah for the world community. Winter, and hunger, are on their way.
Look to Asia, and not Latin America.
So much fluff comments about anything but the content of the above story.
May 31st, 2020 - 12:53 am - Link - Report abuse -1This is a good show of the real mindset of individuals such as Chile president Sebastián Piñera, who out of concern for the “economy” has inefficiently managed the coronavirus pandemic leading to much more death and suffering than it should it been.
All the same, neither Chicureo or Martillazo utter a single word about those killed or maimed by Chilean riot forces -- and they do not care a bit about the reasons these Chileans are descending to the streets, risking their lives and their eyesight. As far as they are concerned, keeping the status quo is what counts.
No sir. They talk about tax shelters and Chicureo speaks about how great life is -- he lives in an island -- good for him -- and worries not about those who are not that lucky.
Seeing what goes on in Brazil and Chile, Argentines are shuddering thinking at what may have happened had the pandemic hit during former president Mauricio Macri's tenure.
Instead, current president Alberto Fernandez has his priorities in the right place and as a result Argentina has avoided a major health crisis. Meanwhile, governments that prioritized “the economy” failed. Could not avoid large GDP reductions. Martillazo's gloom and doom predictions won't materialize, because Alberto cares -- it's that simple, but Chicureo, Martillazo and their ilk can't just fathom it.
Oh, and talking about Chile's privatized water: There are many publications available about the topic, but I just chose a BBC story about it, in hopes Marti accuses the publication of having become socialist or worse. Here's the link -- not for Marti or Chicu but for other interested, curious readers:
https://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-51622758
I'm currently savoring a wonderful Viña Laura Hartwig Cabernet this evening and I have to completely agree with Enrique about the tremendous undeniable social injustice and police brutality happening now in the Americas.
May 31st, 2020 - 03:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm watching it on television tonight. Although the BBC terribly misspelled Florianópolis using “Minneapolis” and it's obvious that Bolsonaro has lost control of his country. (I never realized that Brazil had TARGET department stores.)
Those brutal Brazilian riot police ordered by Bolsonaro obviously demonstrate that people are justified in burning buildings due to social inequality. Those Brazilian rioters are frighteningly concerning as they are not maintaining proper COVID-19 social distancing.)
Also, I'm fascinated how our progressive cousins' Ministerio de Salud statistics are far lower than ours. (Of course, Argentine government statistics have always been a paragon of truth.)
However, I do need to politely correct Enrique who's confused about who was the Chilean Minister Public Works (and later president) who PRIVATIZED public utilities and so much more, that today is being blamed upon Pinochet.
“In 1988, Ricardo Lagos Escobar helped put his country on the road to democracy.”
https://www.joc.com/chiles-ricardo-lagos-paves-way-nations-future_19940918.html
(Read and you'll understand why I think Enrique is full of mendacious bullshit.)
By the way, that “Island” Enrique refers to is progressing well and I have high expectations of an indoor bathroom facilities installed in two weeks time. He's correct that life is currently great.
We should all be thankful for the opportunity to improve your own life as well as those people you care for.
I do indeed embrace the British SAS motto: Who Dares Wins
¡Saludos!
Now, this is Chicureo at his best. Read this:
May 31st, 2020 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”I'm fascinated how our progressive cousins' Ministerio de Salud statistics are far lower than ours. (Of course, Argentine government statistics have always been a paragon of truth.)
Could it be that our distinguished commentator is raising doubts about Argentina's statistics? Well: let's all agree to say that Covid-19 statistics must be taken with a grain of salt, due to low testing numbers and other factors of the current pandemics.
However, and without boasting about these painful statistics, we cannot obviate the fact that Chile is not faring particularly well under its current public health authorities. In contrast, Argentina has so far succeeded in preventing widespread contagion in most areas, with a hot spot in Buenos Aires city and its metropolitan area.
Let's see: Chile, population 19 million: 99,688 cases, 1,054 deceased.
Argentina, population 45 million: 16,214 cases, 530 deceased.
I believe Chicureo, as denialist in-chief, has not even bothered to read the story above. How on earth could what he calls “the most modern country in Latin America” be brought to this point?:
“...the situation has highlighted the inequality and poor public services that drove millions of protesters to the streets last October. In Santiago, the nation's capital, 95% of intensive care beds are occupied, and hospital patients are being airlifted to other parts of the country. The country witnessed a record jump of nearly 5,000 confirmed cases on Monday, with another rise of nearly 4,000 on Tuesday.”
Pity on the Chileans for having elected a president who fears for the economy but cares much less about those who make that economy possible.
But does Chicureo care about that?
You read -- you judge.
Enrique Massot
May 31st, 2020 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse +1In reference to your continuous misleading and highly mendacious post:
“Let's see: Chile, population 19 million: 99,688 cases, 1,054 deceased.
Argentina, population 45 million: 16,214 cases, 530 deceased.”
I would add that latest Chilean Ministerio de Salud COVID19 statistics include reporting 57 cases in the last 24 hours — 57 deaths in the last 24 hours — 42,727 fully recovered.
Frankly, I'm very impressed that your Argentine brothers are so successful in reporting far lower cases, especially since the ethnic mix is not that different from ours and certainly Buenos Aires has a large number of international travelers from throughout the world. (A curious paradox isn't it?)
So please explain how are such such a extraordinary difference in statistics? Is it indeed the case that Argentina's Ministerio de Salud is far more effective in their actions than Chile's?
If you have such high confidence in Argentine statistics are indeed so remarkable, I highly applaud your optimism. I like my Argentine cousins and certainly hope that some how they have denied mathematical and medical logic.
(Perhaps you can explain why Argentina can no longer find ANY buyers for their bonds — not at any ridiculous high rate of return!)
Besides the highly reputable and reliable BBC reporting regarding the social unrest in Florianópolis (erroneously misspelling as “Minneapolis”) that makes it's obvious that Bolsonaro has lost control of his country — I would gently remind you that I proved your mendacious claims about Pinochet privatizing public utilities — as it was-in-fact democratically elected Ricardo Lagos who proudly privatized water in Chile. (I would also point out that it was applauded internationally as a very prudent and important legislation.)
“In 1988, Ricardo Lagos Escobar helped put his country on the road to democracy.”
https://www.joc.com/chiles-ricardo-lagos-paves-way-nations-future_19940918.html
I love my Argentine cousins, I but don't trust them.
Chicureo:
Jun 02nd, 2020 - 06:01 am - Link - Report abuse -1“I proved your mendacious claims about Pinochet privatizing public utilities.”
Chicureo: They say, a best defense is a good attack. But you need all your ducks in a row.
From The Guardian, Sept. 15, 2016:
“The process of water privatisation in Chile which began in 1981 under General Pinochet established a model for water management that strengthened private water rights...”
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/sep/15/chile-santiago-water-supply-drought-climate-change-privatisation-neoliberalism-human-right
However, according to Wikipedia:
”Under the government of Christian Democrat President Eduardo Frei, the law was amended in 1998 to promote (water) private sector participation.“
Chicureo dixit:
”...it was-in-fact democratically elected Ricardo Lagos who proudly privatized water in Chile.“
And noted Wikipedia:
”The Socialist Presidents Ricardo Lagos (2000–2006) and Michelle Bachelet (since 2006) maintained the basic institutional structure of the sector established under previous governments based on private service provision...“
Said Chicureo: ”(Chile's water privatization) was applauded internationally as a very prudent and important legislation.)“
The Guardian, Sept. 15, 2016:
”...a new poll suggests that 74% of Chileans support a return to the public ownership of water (but) the Chilean private sector (said) the proposed reforms had “a clear intent on expropriating [private] water rights.”
Here you go.
What reeky fails to recognise is that the civilised nations regard scarce water resources as needing controls to avoid excessive exploitation. In that respect Chile's policies are in keeping with the best practices internationally. That the usual lumpen in any country might wish to vote for free this and free that without any controls is hardly unusual and conceding to this sector is what has gotten Argentina into much of its trouble and bankruptcy.
Jun 02nd, 2020 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse +1The Guardian, like most ultra-leftist rags in the UK, deliberately mis-characterises the nature of water use and controls in Chile, as does Reeky.
Reeky would misrepresent every aspect of failed Argentina and this area is no exception. He decries the privatisation of water in Chile and yet when we see that private water companies in Argentina are not unlike those in Chile. Buenos Aires has the private supplier, Agua y Saneamientos Argentinos (AySA), not unlike the suppliers for Greater Santiago. Even the peronist government in 1980 saw the need to privatise water services since the previous state-run agency did such a poor job. AySA remains a private water supplier in Argentina to this day. The difference is that the current peronist governments make investment in water supply nearly impossible due to price controls, with the result that services suffer and the infrastructure has fallen into disrepair, although AySA has borrowed a great deal in order to keep up with its obligations.
So reeky is essentially lying to us all, again.
Marti
Jun 02nd, 2020 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would add simply that each freely democratic Chilean government this century has been active in adjusting the legislation relating to public utilities, but the socialist Ricardo Lagos was indeed the key individual in my nation's embrace of a modern water and sewage infrastructure.
Many Argentines also now see through the COVID19 coverup there, which is prevalent throughout Latin America. This plague does not discriminate politically and depending on your news source, you can prove your opposing argument on each side.
I was always taught that Chileanos could never be satisfied with true economic progress, and later learned it was the same case for ALL Latinos. Yet, after reviewing the recent unrest in the USA, it's obvious it's a universal unfortunate aspect throughout the Americas.
ML
Jun 03rd, 2020 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Even the peronist government in 1980 saw the need to privatise water services...”
“So reeky is essentially lying to us all, again.”
Hey, Marti: As we say in Argentina, you are pissing out of the can. In this case, you were off by one decade.
In 1980 Argentina still had three more years of military junta government to endure. In 1983 Raúl Alfonsín, the father of our democracy, was elected and we were finally able to bid bye bye to the last military regime and say “Nunca Más” to a sad, sinister epoch.
It wasn't until 1989 that we had Carlos Menem as a Peronist president, who became famous for selling -- for peanuts -- “the jewels of the crown,” that is, the state enterprises, some of them later re-nationalized by another Peronist government.
Oh, and I had a good laugh reading your characterization of The Guardian as being like “most ultra-leftist rags in the UK.”
However, I went to check Wikipedia and here's what they wrote about The Guardian:
“The paper's readership is generally on the mainstream left of British political opinion...”
So I'll give you this partially, but I think the term “ultra-leftist” is sensationalist -- not a fair characterization -- due to your point of observation located way, way at the far right end of the spectrum.
I also thought this paragraph from Wiki was interesting:
“In 2016, The Guardian led an investigation into the Panama Papers, exposing then-Prime Minister David Cameron's links to offshore bank accounts. It has been named ”newspaper of the year“ four times at the annual British Press Awards: most recently in 2014, for its reporting on government surveillance.”
It nowhere says The Guardian tells lies. As for telling lies, I can cite one Argentine newspaper -- Clarín -- that is unafraid of twisting the truth and other times tells straight lies.
And that paper is not leftist by any stretch of the imagination.
The problem with nationalised/state run industries is that they never work very well, anywhere, ever.
Jun 04th, 2020 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hopelessly inefficient in manufacturing but who cares, they don’t have to turn a profit.
Or where it’s a state owned oil/gas company that can’t fail to make a profit, it’s generally worse in terms of efficiency.
Added to this the problem in many places of corruption, not least in S. America where as far as I can see, no one has ever attempted to put a stop to it.
Although I can well understand in places like Venezuela and at times Argentina, it may be the only way to survive.
Having said that, I strongly (like most people here) support our NHS, with a place for private providers in the system. They can turn up in the hospital car park with a trailer and do more cataract operations in a day than the hospital could in a month.
I am also not at all convinced that privately owned utilities (gas, water, electricity) are best. After all they have to pay shareholders dividends, simply taking money away from investment.
Within nationalised utilities and railways it is possible to have a competitive system by comparing one region against another and adopting best practice.
Pugol-H
Jun 05th, 2020 - 02:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0But again you live in a civilized governed country. And public utilities owned by the municipality or nation, makes perfect sense. I would also mention that any UK politician of yours proposing your NHS should be exiled — like the troublesome little Corsican.
Despite Ricardo Lagos' political leanings, the gentleman has served my country well and yet remained loyal to his beliefs.
His pragmatic decision was to modernize city services by utilizing strictly regulated privatization. This resulted in a successful highly costly needed upgrade without burdening everyone with increased taxes and maintaining our fiscal budget.
Yes, different situations, “horses for courses” as we say.
Jun 05th, 2020 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The NHS was a “sacred cow” before this pandemic, anyone proposing to “mess” with it now would probably end up with their head on a spike on London Bridge.
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