MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina's National Sovereignty Day: “We won't trade the islands for vaccines,” President says
Argentine President Alberto Fernández Friday insisted the Malvinas (Falkland) Islands belonged to his country, which would never trade them “neither for vaccines nor for debts.” Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThe reason hundreds of Argentines died on the Falkland Islands was because a dictator in Argentina sent them there to attempt to steal a land that did not and never has belonged to them. So stop whinging about your losses, they could have been so easily avoided.
Nov 20th, 2021 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse +7Your country caused the loss of British servicemen and women and civilian lives dont ever forget that.
If Argentina thinks they will not stop untill the can succesfully steal our land maybe Britain should treat your regime the same way they and north America treated another dictator who tried to steal Kuwait.
Remember if there is a next time you attempt to steal our land, our protectors will take the fight to your doorstep.
Do you so want to be overthrown in the same way Sadam was in Iraq.
So keep whinging for as long as you like but never forget that this time we are much better protected then we were in 1982.
You couldn't fight your way out of a wet paper bag, you gormless whiskery twat.
Nov 20th, 2021 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0What Islands does Argentina have to trade?
Nov 20th, 2021 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse +3The English Pirate.
Nov 20th, 2021 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Neither could the Argentines fight their way out of a paper bag because they were all wrapped up in white flags.
What a pathetic statement from the Argentine goverment, grow up.
Nov 20th, 2021 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse +3“The lives of hundreds of Argentines were left on those islands,” Fernández argued.” But many more were killed during the “Dirty War”. In fact more Argentines have been killed by their own armed forces than by the Brits.
Nov 20th, 2021 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +5Wow, are you the so called haters?.
Nov 20th, 2021 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse -2“I want to steal your home from you. Why all the hate?”
Nov 20th, 2021 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“My thievery caused bloodshed. Why all the hate?”
“I want to steal your home from you.” Who said that?.
Nov 20th, 2021 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse -3“My thievery caused bloodshed”. Like Iraq?.
Off topic. I need help for a homework. Can anyone of you confirm me if the people listed below were born in Britain?. Thank you:
The Royal Falkland Islands Police, Jeff McMahon
Fire chief Gardner Fiddes CMgr FCMI
Director of Emergency Services, Andy Bell
Falklands Chief Justice James Lewis
Governor of the Falkland Islands, Nigel Phillips
Falkland Islands Senior Magistrate Sarah Whitby
Director of Emergency Services and Island Security and Principal Immigration Officer Ms P amelaTrevillion
Director of Education Marie Horton
Director of Health and Social Services David O’Neill.
If you weren't trying to steal the Falkland Islands, you would not be asking about those people.
Nov 20th, 2021 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Thief.
bushpilot, what?. It makes no sense. Thief?. It is you that is stealing oil from the poor iraqians after having killed millons of civilians, invading them without the most remotelly proof. And you have to have the nerve to invade a whole nation that did not atacked you.
Nov 21st, 2021 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse -4Malvinas, its a territory that were administered by Spain and later Argentina from 1776 to 1833, when the british invaded with the excuse that 60 years before they set foot on there. And we have protested for the occupation ever since.
About the war?. we lived under dictatorship 40 years ago and our dictatorship used the british that wanted to expell the civilian scrapmetal that worked in South Georgia as an excuse to recover the islands with a number of almost 1000 casualties between british and Argentines. Perhaps the two month war was more terrific than the 10 years occupation of Iraq isnt it?.
.Now please, my history teacher wants to know if the people listed below were all born in Europe:
The Royal Falkland Islands Police, Jeff McMahon
Fire chief Gardner Fiddes CMgr FCMI
Director of Emergency Services, Andy Bell
Falklands Chief Justice James Lewis
Governor of the Falkland Islands, Nigel Phillips
Falkland Islands Senior Magistrate Sarah Whitby
Director of Emergency Services and Island Security and Principal Immigration Officer Ms P amelaTrevillion
Director of Education Marie Horton
Director of Health and Social Services David O’Neill.
In 1811, Spain only claimed the Island of Soledad.
Nov 21st, 2021 - 12:43 am - Link - Report abuse +2In accordance with the Convention of 1771.
https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2021/02/1775-to-1815.pdf
Argentina is not Spain.
Buenos Aires (not the Confederation) were trespassing in the 1820s. Given two written warnings in 1829 & 1832 (which they ignored), before being legally ejected in 1833.
Put simply, Argentina was never in the game.
Liberato.
Nov 21st, 2021 - 12:45 am - Link - Report abuse +3You and I know very well that everyone of those you listed are not Falkland Islanders.
It makes no differance who we islanders employ.
What it does prove is that our country is made up of many nationalities . Not all British as you hint at. What it does also prove is that the Falkland islanders can and do choose who they believe can contribute the best to our development.
The other fact is we are very good at everything we do.
We do not have a national debt like our much larger neighbour.
We do not have poverty like our nearest neighbour does.
We do not claim anothers territory like our greedy neighbour does.
We have never invaded another peaceful neighbour as our aggressive neighbour has.
We dont lie to our people as our neighbours does to their own people.
We have never indoctrinated our children as our neighbours have done.
So you can stop twisting the facts.
We islanders of mixed cultures have permantly resided here since 1833 a time when even Argentina did not exist in the land that today we know as Argentina.
Remember aggression does not pay. You were taught that lesson in 1982. Have you not learned from that stupidity.
Probably not.
I wonder just where your country would be today had British, Scottish, Welsh and Irish adventurers had not settled your land. Very likely would not have lasted as long as it has.
So while you make notes of some of our heads of departments you need to reflect on just who is running your country. Certainly not spanish Argentines that's for sure.
In 1811, Spain only claimed the Island of Soledad. Nope. By 1811, Spain was the first and only power to administer and control the whole area. Even british fishermen had seek permision to fish to them.
Nov 21st, 2021 - 01:10 am - Link - Report abuse -4By 1833, Britain have never administer nor settled in any part of the Malvinas except Port Egmont in Trinidad Island until 1774. And only once they set foot on the Gran Malvinas, the western of the two bigger islands.
So trespassing in the 1820s????. Since 1774 the british were non existance there, nor there was no claim nor protest of any kind. The first time the british set foot on Soledad Islands in Soledad Port or Port Louis was in 1833 when they invaded.
And the first time the british controlled the seas around the Malvinas was after the 1982 conflict.
Falklands-Free, You present yourself each year in the Decolonization Committe trying to convince the UN to visit the islands to see your community and your “self-governed” territorie. Becouse that is the question right?. The UN says you are a non self-governing territorie administered by Britain and you says you are not.
Imagine what would happens if that day comes where a team of UN observers goes to the islands accepting your invitation and see that all and each position of the government is occupy by a people brought from Britain?.
Now imagine what would happens if the Principal Immigration Officer is argentine and only gives residence permission to argentines. In a low population you would think it wont change anything?.
So you claim you self-govern yourself. But all jobs are taken in Britain. Why not claim being autonomous instead of lying in such a way?.
There is no intention to insult in any way. Just debate.
The Instructions +
Nov 21st, 2021 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse +1“Prior to verifying the abandonment of the establishment that you are leaving, nail in the place that you consider most appropriate the coat of arms of Spain, if it wasn't already there, and write in the proper place, not exposed to the elements, with uppercase letters the following - “This island with its port, buildings, dependencies and everything else inside belongs to the sovereignty of Sr Don Fernando 7th, legitimate King of Spain, and the Indies and the date” - having written such august name and (posted) in several places of the establishment, this act to be verified by both the captain and the chaplain to give it all the possible solemnity; everything as agreed in the War Council celebrated today in the house of Sr Governor of that place. … Jose Maria Salasar”
The Notice =
THIS ISLAND WITH ITS PORTS, BUILDINGS, UNITS AND CONTENTS BELONGS TOTHE SOVEREIGNTY OF SR. D. FERNANDO VII KING OF SPAIN AND THE INDIES,
SOLEDAD OF MALUINAS 7 February 1811 Governor Paul Guillén.
THIS Island, Libby. Soledad. In accordance with the 1771 accord and, I suspect, half an eye on the 1809 Anglo-Spanish Treaty.
https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/88740.pdf
British fishermen did NOT seek permission to fish there. And before you waste my time with Enrique Jones, he was not a British fisherman. He was a Buenos Aires fisherman where he lived from 1812 until 1861.
In the first place, no one is offering to ‘trade’ anything with Argentina over the Falklands. Why would they when Argentina don’t even have a legitimate claim in the first place. You get nowt for nowt.
Nov 21st, 2021 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse +1In the second place, the reason they lost their lives is because they invaded someone else’s territory. The reason they are still there is because Argentina refuses to accept them back.
Now they have all been identified, if Argentina continues to refuse, perhaps it is time to look at burial at sea, end this farce once and for all.
Lorton, The british stole the plague placed in Port Egmont in the english invasions, why isnt any photograph of it?, or the spanish one in 1811?.
Nov 21st, 2021 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse -1https://www.falklandsbiographies.org/biographies/clayton_samuel
The brief and hidden settlement made by the british in Trinidad Island from 1765 to 1774 were not exclusive, something important for its territorial integrity. They did not moved from Port Egmont and did not contested spanish total control of the area(including Trinidad Islands) for the rest of the 46 years that the spanish administered the islands, alone. Even destroying Port Egmont and watching that nobody elses decide to place any other settlement.
The spanish total control were not contested. nor were the argentine one until 1829. What is even proven by many british diplomatic of the era like William Molesworth or the Duke of Wellington when the foreign office sended to him all papers regarding Malvinas he said that Spain restitution only Port Egmont that they abandoned 60 years before.
About the fishermens. Henry Jones permit was in 1813, being commisioned its ship brig. antelope under argentine flag in 1815. There were others argentine permits to british ships and north american ships.
But again, a british port made in a territory already discovered, claimed and settled. Abandoned in 1774 without claiming nor protested by the total control of another power than named like 32 spanish governors while the british didnt even had one, you think it gives rights to Britain to invade in 1833 a friendly nation that recognized as independent few years before?. Britain did not reasserted its claim when the spanish left, even when they lost the ship Isabella. Did not protested by the Argentine official ceremony of possesion in 1820 (even when published in The Times of London). did not protested when recognized Argentina in 1825. So your excuses of the fishermens administering Malvinas leave it to your “book”.
You have no history and no present in the colony!.
@“Liberato”, What has the Spanish Claim got to do with Argentina ? Argentina Did Not inherit anything from Spain there is NO Paper work date relevant which backs Argentina`s Inherited Sovereignty Claim !! It only Assumes that. Considering Spain still had an active Claim on Port Louis in 1829 that makes Argentina the Usurper!!
Nov 21st, 2021 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Dirk Dikkler, you are assuming that Britain had in 1833 sovereignty rights since 1774 while they did not even had sovereignty rights in 1774.
Nov 21st, 2021 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Now please, the UN has told me that this time they really wants to go to the islands and meet the self governing people with rights to self-determination. But they need to ask you guys if all these branches of the colonial regime are managed by people born in Britain:
The Royal Falkland Islands Police, Jeff McMahon
Fire chief Gardner Fiddes CMgr FCMI
Director of Emergency Services, Andy Bell
Falklands Chief Justice James Lewis
Governor of the Falkland Islands, Nigel Phillips
Falkland Islands Senior Magistrate Sarah Whitby
Director of Emergency Services and Island Security and Principal Immigration Officer Ms P amelaTrevillion
Director of Education Marie Horton
Director of Health and Social Services David O’Neill.
I’ve stated my own opinions before that territorial claims don’t matter in the 21st century, it’s the people living on the land that decides it’s fate, sure Liberato you will try to “gotcha” me with Chagos and Scotland as if my position contradicts my opinions on those which actually don’t.
Nov 21st, 2021 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Just so you don’t throw Chagos and Scotland in my face:
I believe the Chagossians should be returned and given a binding referendum on whether to join Mauritius officially, stay with the UK or become their own state.
Scotland had a referendum in 2014, my opinion is to wait until ATLEAST 2034 before the next referendum should be held and even then, I believe if the Scots vote for independence then fair on them and good luck, I just don’t like the constant anti-English sentiments from the SNP.
In conclusion I believe it’s the people that decide a land’s fate no matter what, claims be damned.
Frankly the basic logic behind all this “political drum beating” by the Argentine government is to distract the polulation from other far more important issues, like inflation, poverty, insecurity and a very long etc.
Nov 21st, 2021 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse +2It should be left to the polulation that live on the Islands to take their own decisions as to which country they wish to belong to.
The fact that the current “office holders” are British or born on the islands is totally irrelavant. They must be living there to hold the offices they are holding. No doubt if they are not doing a good job, come elections-time the population will cast their vote and they would be removed from office. End of story.
Rambling libby.
Nov 21st, 2021 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Photos? Seriously. 1774? 1811? I do so love to see an argie making claims for Spain, that Spain never itself claimed.
The evidence is quite clear - it's in the Spanish archive. Enjoy.
https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/88740.pdf
Zaczac121, “... it’s the people living on the land that decides it’s fate”. Wow how sweet, it is very noble on your part to think that way. It is what we all want after all.
Nov 21st, 2021 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse -2So by people you mean the british.? If your answear is yes then why the “referendum” if Argentina and the world knows that the british living in Malvinas wants to remain being british?.
You can have a valid proposition saying that it doesnt matter if they are british or congolese. That they lived there for generations and have the right to remain there. Ok, but the difference is that if they are british, then there is not a third party in this dispute.
If you say that they are not british, then how is that 98% of the population is of british origins. Why all branch of the colonial regime is composed by people directly imported from Britain?. Why organize a “referendum” asking a population almost entirelly of british origins if they wants to remain being british?.. 3 votes against in the referendum???. Im sure it was the last 3 votes made, when they realized it would be very ridiculous to have a 100% yes votes.
Like i said before, you care becouse it is YOUR people. And the UK cares becouse there is huge amount of land and sea to exploit, including the Antartic.
We all hope for a better future. And Argentina have ceded land in the past and nobody its against new nations formed. The problem is called colonialism. When a nation impose colonialism in your territory with its own people. They could have legitimated the colony in Malvinas by opening their frontiers. But unfortunately, they will never do that. And we all knows why.
Scotland have no sovereignty dispute and no colonial situation. Nobody is questioning the UK's democracy.. But if you think that chagos was an error, Iraq, was an error, but the Malvinas dont. Then you have being eating to much propaganda. There are nine more territories under british colonialism with no sovereignty disputes at all.
The British, MercoPress and Falklanders are the biggest liars on the planet. I salute the Argentine who are making an example of principle, inspiring the world to stick to their guns when they know they are right about an international territorial issue. No matter how many times they may loose a battle against superior forces, one day the dialogue and diplomacy will finally be respected, powerful countries will learn to respect those that don't believe in war, and maybe peace fill finally come to this world. Just like China is right about Taiwan, just like Palestine is right about Israel, just like Iraq is right about Kuwait, just like Venezuela is right about Essequibo, and Guatemala is right about Belice, so is Argentina is right about the Falklands being their Malvinas Islands.
Nov 21st, 2021 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse -4English is the language of the biggest usurping deceitfully arrogant lying bullies of the world, and each day, more people in the world know it.
Liberato keeps banging the same drum repeating the same names because he literally does not understand how our system works.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse +3Positions are advertised in many parts of the world and are filled according to their criteria.
He thinks that everyone of us living here are of British origin. What a total load of utter rubbish. We are a country of many nationalities that call themselves Falkland Islanders, not Britain's or any other nationality. We happen to wish to remain a part of the British system. The alternative was to become Argentines and we clearly do not want to become them.
Say whatever you like about the nationals living here that are here at the direct invitation of the people of the Falkland islands and even include Argentines.
Truth is Argentina has never had a legal claim to our country and is basing their argument on a country that they broke away from because they resented alliances with their former Spanish mother country.
Argentina then went on to remove all indigenous people from their land to expand their empire and as it happens the Falklands looked like another easy target. They made a mistake thinking they could just rock up and steal this land and they got kicked out.
Just as they do they threw a tantrum because they do not like being told they cannot have everything they want.
Not once have they ever considered the rights and wishes of the people of the Falkland Islands because they are indoctrinated to believe that we are all British implanted people and that is clearly not true. More than sixty different nationals from all over the world have made the Falkland Islands their home and raised their families as Falkland islanders.
No our chosen leaders do not go to the UN to beg for our existence they go there to inform the UN of their aggressive Argentine neighbours that want to steal our land. Who invaded a peaceful nation and who wants to be left in peace to decide their own future.
We are the ones who will decide our destiny not Argentina
Your “system” is nothing but a clever and intricate well thought out front. A mask designed to paint over the fact that you are colonial expansionist bullying robbers. You are disguising your “loots” like that of Gibraltar and Malvinas with formally proper appearing administrations in order to fool public and international opinion, but underneath it is one single reason; to more effectively steal from those who cannot defend themselves because now you are in cahoots with America ripping off the world, raping cultures and peoples future patrimonies.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 12:45 am - Link - Report abuse -3Still smoking that shit, Pat?
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 01:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's addling your few remaining brain cells.
Falklands-Free you wrote like 3 paragraph talking about how evil Argentina is. Ok i take it. Lets assume that Argentina is the bully, bastard, bad at economics, thieves, etc. But what Argentina says is not different to what the United Nations says. That the islands are a non self-governing territorie under a UN process of Decolonization, which the administering power is the UK. And the the only way to end the special and particular colonial situation is through negotiations between the UK and Argentina.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 01:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your closest ally, the USA. recognize a De Facto british administration but takes no side regarding sovereignty.
Ergo, Its Argentina's fault? UN fault? or its the USA's fault?.
What 'special and particular colonial situation'? The UN has never used those terms. Only Argentina uses those terms. And before you waste time, no the C24 is not the UN.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 01:34 am - Link - Report abuse +2But then the C24 doesn't recommend its own Falklands resolutions for adoption by the UN. Which rather makes its views irrelevant. But then the UN fully supports the Islanders right of self-determination, and that rather renders Argentina irrelevant.
To quote the recent Chagos AO from the ICJ - ”“... respect for the right to self-determination is an obligation erga omnes,..” (an obligation for all)
“The ICJ ruled that the adoption of 1514 marked the crystallization of the right to self-determination in CIL. The Court also took the view that the subject of this entitlement — the ”people“ — must be defined by reference to the colonial unit as a whole.” [ The Chagos Advisory Opinion and the Decolonization of Mauritius Stephen Allen April, 2019 in American Society of International Law. CIL = Customary International Law]
Argentina, is impotent. Only the Islanders can decide their future.
lorton, quote1:“ the C24 is not the UN.”. Ahh ok they are a foreign source right?.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 02:05 am - Link - Report abuse -1quote2:“ C24 doesn't recommend its own Falklands resolutions for adoption by the UN. Which rather makes its views irrelevant”. Ok Irrelevant the body in charge of decolonization?.
quote3:“ the UN fully supports the Islanders right of self-determination”. Great, so the islands are out of the list then?. Ohh they do not delist them becouse they didnt choose independence....right.
about Chagos ICJ:
https://www.icj-cij.org/public/files/case-related/169/169-20190225-01-00-EN.pdf
page 38:
The right to self-determination under customary international law does not impose a specific mechanism for its implementation in all instances, as the court has observed:
“The validity of the principle of self-determination, defined as the need to pay regard to the freely expressed will of peoples, is not affected by the fact that in certain cases the General Assembly has dispensed with the requirement of consulting the inhabitants of a given territory. Those instances were base either on the consideration that a certain population did not constitute a ”people“ entitled to self-determination or on the conviction that a consultation was totally unnecessary, in view of special circunstancies”. (Western Sahara, Advisory Opinion, I.C.J. Reports 1975, p. 33, para. 59)
So, the right to self-determination its applicable to all the peoples of the non self governing territories. And it is a fundamental right that Argentina have always supported while the UK “abstained” in its voting. But, You have to have a people to have that right. Not people, but A people.
Last quote:“Argentina, is impotent. Only the Islanders can decide their future.”. Right... Im forgot to check in the UN web but, Is this the Third international Decade for the Erradication of Colonialism in all its forms?. Or the Fourd?.
Cheers.
Did you not read what you wrote?
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 02:41 am - Link - Report abuse +1No, there is no specific mechanism for implementing the right of self-determination. In other words, there can be more than one way of implementing the right. And, while the UN GA can dispense with the requirement of consultation, that is not the same as dispensing with the right of self-determination.
As for people, you missed the point of the quote I presented. A/The people is determined by reference to the colonial unit (NSGT). In other words, the people of a NSGT are THE people of the colonial unit for the purposes of the right in Res 1514 of 1960. And that, clearly, confirms that if there were no 'people' (eg South Georgia) then a territory could not be listed as a NSGT. Just as was stated in Resolution 567 (IV) of 1952 - “1. The territories which are covered by Chapter XI of the Charter are those territories whose people have not yet attained a full measure of self-government...”.
So, all the listed NSGTs have the right to self-determination, respect for which is an international obligation. As confirmed by the Chagos AO.
Conclusion: Argentina is impotent as only the people (Falklanders) of this parrticular colonial unit (Falklands NSGT) can exercise the right of self-determination.
Simple enough, even for you, Libby.
If Argentina thinks otherwise, it is free to lobby the UN to have its own question put to the ICJ. Somehow, I doubt it will.
Lorton, “...In other words, there can be more than one way of implementing the right”. Yes, on the General Assembly considering that a certain population constitute a ”people“ entitled to self-determination.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 03:26 am - Link - Report abuse -1About the quote you made earlier, they were talking about partitioning a NSGT like Marutious or Western Sahara. Here is the link you forgot to post:
https://www.asil.org/insights/volume/23/issue/2/chagos-advisory-opinion-and-decolonization-mauritius#_edn16
quote2:”confirms that if there were no 'people' (eg South Georgia) then a territory could not be listed as a NSGT”. If there were no people, we would be talking about a sovereignty dispute only. But again, a people does not means, A people.
Did you read what i quote from the ICJ that the General Assembly does not consider all populations as a ”people“ entitled to self-determination?.
You should read the link i gave you where the ICJ determine the nature, content and scope of the right to self-determination....:
point 144. Right before what i quoted in the previous post.
Cheers.
Wrong, Libby, the ICJ DOES consider all the NSGTS as having the right of self-determination.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 06:13 am - Link - Report abuse +1There are NO exceptions.
Go learn to read.
Liberato
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 09:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is crystal clear that you alone are denying the rights of a people. You dont want to know the other side of the story.
Argentina uses the UN and the C24 as their only hope of achieving their goal. That goal is not based on negotiations with those concerned but a one sided challange to remove a people from their land.
In other words ethnically cleanse a population because they are living on a piece of very important land that Argentina wants to control.
The reason for that control is access and wealth.
Access to one of the most important places on the planet. Antartica which you so want to exploit.
The Falkland Islands are an important gateway to that continent and to control these frontiers gives Argentina more power to challange the entire southern hemisphere of other nations who use it.
The other reason is the overpowering need for wealth. Something Argentina has been lacking since before 1982.
It is abundantly clear that Argentina does not care for the well being of others but their total greed of power, that clearly show by the living standards of their own people. People who are in poverty and remain suppressed by the rich aggressive powers that govern them.
You preach about how unjust Britain is towards the world, yet you refuse to acknowledge how unjust your country is to both it's own people and other neighbours.
The whole region of south America would actually be far better if Argentina had never existed.
Argentina is a rogue country .
Argentina is no differant to all those other rogue countries who are trying to dominate the world.
Thank goodness there are those countries fighting to stop these rogues succeeding.
What in life do you personally hope to gain by removing us from our country.
I doubt you actually know the answer to that.
Libby is in denial.... a few pertinent quotes:
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 10:24 am - Link - Report abuse +2ICJ =
“The Court considered that the peoples of non-self-governing territories are entitled to exercise their right to self-determination in relation to their territory as a whole, the integrity of which must be respected by the administering Power. ”
HSC =
“Moreover, the ICJ afforded the self-determination to peoples of a non-self-governing territory. This explicit correlation suggests that the right to self-determination and the right to decolonise were interconnected. This clearly identifies the right-holder as peoples ruled by colonial governance, thereby indicating that other peoples in non-self-governing territories are also intrinsically entitled to freedom from colonisation on the basis of the right to self-determination ”
From Libby's own link-
“The ICJ ruled that the adoption of 1514 marked the crystallization of the right to self-determination in CIL.[16] The Court also took the view that the subject of this entitlement—the ”people“—must be defined by reference to the colonial unit as a whole. ..”
Point 144? =
144. The Court will have to determine the nature, content and scope of the right to self-determination applicable to the process of decolonization of Mauritius, a non-self-governing territory recognized as such, from 1946 onwards, both in United Nations practice and by the administering Power itself. The Court is conscious that the right to self-determination, as a fundamental human right, has a broad scope of application. However, to answer the question put to it by the General Assembly, the Court will confine itself, in this Advisory Opinion, to analysing the right to self-determination in the context of decolonization.
That was talking about the ICJ's objectives in the Chagos case.
Libby, your two brain cells are not talking to each other.
Librato,
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Yes indeed those Administrative Heads you name are indeed contracted from overseas. BUT the Policy and What money is spent on what project is decided by our ELECTED Legislative members - same as in your Country. The Civil servants produce plans and advise to the elected Govt within their speciality section - and the Elected Govt may or may NOT take that advice!
Guess you do not understand how democracy works? No - you wouldn't - as you believe today in the 21st century - in good old fashioned Colonialism - take somethig that is not yours and to hell with the people who live there.
The old world got rid of its old fashioned Colonial beliefs many many years ago and has moved on.
Falklands-Free, “Argentina uses the UN and the C24 as their only hope of achieving their goal. That goal is not based on negotiations with those concerned...”. So Argentina's might. The UN requires negotiations between Argentina and UK.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“...a one sided challange to remove a people from their land”. When did i said that?. are you ok?.
“In other words ethnically cleanse a population ...”. What???? Am i gonna be in the “axis of evil”.
“Argentina is no differant to all those other rogue countries who are trying to dominate the world.”. Really?.
Lorton, you are going in circles. First, all what you quoted are correct, but incomplete and taken out of context. In the ICJ consultation, When i mentioned the scope of the self-determination right, i quoted before that it says that for the UNGA, not all populations are peoples entitled to self determination. So based on that, all the peoples of the NSGT have self-determination rights.
In your second paragraph, you suggest all NSGT are people entitled to freedom from colonisation, which is one form of colonialism. The people living in Malvinas are not colonized. Do you think all NSGT are people that are being colonized?.
“Libby, your two brain cells are not talking to each other”. You wants to “win” a debate that you already lost. If you think that all NSGT have to be independent in order to be delisted, it goes in contradiction to all resolutions made by the UNGA and the UNDC regarding Malvinas. Negotiate Malvinas as requested and then do what you want.
Islander1, “Your” “ELECTED Legislative members” are also composed by a mayority of people imported from London.
“Guess you do not understand how democracy works?”. I do underestand. As you underestand how a colonial regime works.
“in good old fashioned Colonialism”. That is a form of colonialism that do not apply to Malvinas.
“ take somethig that is not yours and to hell with the people who live there.” Who said that?.
So Liberato.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Explain to us non existent born and bread islanders, just what is it you really want with our Country.
From where I am sitting Argentina has done little to manage succesfully the Country they have already occupied.
So do tell us ignorant squatters just why you so want our islands given that every piece of intelligent history clearly shows that Argentina never ever had a legal claim.
Enlighten us. I am sure you are intelligent enough to do that.
Oh and dont mention the British. They are eight thousand miles north.
I am interested in only why you think that almost 3500 Falkland islanders have no tight to live here.
Explain exactly why you think you have that right to occupy land that has never belonged to you.
Many islanders who's home this is would really like to know. For over 170 years no one in Argentina has yet been able to answer those questions. Maybe you would like to make history and be the first to do so.
Falklands-Free, “Explain to us non existent born and bread islanders”. You are not a non existance born. You are a population that do not constitute a people with self-determination rights.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“what is it you really want with our Country”. The only country recognized by the world is the UK, and the only thing we want is for them to comply with United Nations resolutions and negotiate sovereignty to solve the dispute so the UN can continue with the process of decolonization.
“Argentina has done little to manage succesfully the Country they have already occupied.”. So you suggest that sovereignty rights are only eligible to nations that can run succesfully in the economic arena?. Like the UK for instance?.
“why you so want our islands given that every piece of intelligent history clearly shows that Argentina never ever had a legal claim.”. You are like what? eight generation?. There are people in continental Argentina that goes way beyond that number. For example the descendants of Malvina Vernet that was born there before you all lot invaded in 1833. There were marriage too.
“Oh and dont mention the British. They are eight thousand miles north”. What nationality do you have?.
“I am interested in only why you think that almost 3500 Falkland islanders have no tight to live here.”. You have all the right to be there. I never suggested otherwise. And if you were born there, you are Argentine by right of birth.
“occupy land that has never belonged to you”. It is only your opinion. My opinion is that they belongs to my country.
“For over 170 years no one in Argentina has yet been able to answer those questions”. I hope i can help you.
Sovereignty negotiations does not means:
- We are gonna expell islanders.
-We are gonna go to war again.
-A direct transfer of sovereignty either.
-A direct change of culture.
Sovereignty negotiations means to negotiate a way to discuss the problem and solve it permanently. Be it Arbitration, an ICJ rulling, etc.
No more space to write.
Liberato.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse +2I am a true falkland islander by birth right. My ancestors extended all the way back to Vikings.
We have been born to this land no other just as your people done when they occupied Argentina. I would love for our case to be taken to the ICJ because we know that we would win and Argentina would never accept that ruling .
Why should I want to become Argentine . I am happy to accept having a British way of life just as many foreigners have become by depol. They raise their children as my ancestors done as Falkland Islanders with British language and constitutional workings because that is what we chose to be.
We could have just as easily said we wanted to be French or even Spanish but what we have never wanted is to be Argentinians. There is a differance.
This differance has gone on for far to long and it is time for Argentina to do as Britain has done and let us choose our own destiny. Is that acceptable to you.
Because right now you refuse to negotiate with the people of the falkland islands and always say we dont exist and will only talk to Britain who has already accepted our self determination.
Why cant you do the same.
No you wont because you want the place as your own.
“I am a true falkland islander by birth right”. Yeap, But taken away the UN, or Argentina if you like. The USA recognize a De Facto british administration, not a country. So You are asking to be recognized as a different people than those living in the UK. But at the same time, you are almost 100% of british origin, wanting to make a referendum on those people, without even consulting the UN that is in charge of your decolonization.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -1And not only that, all branches of the colonial government are run by people contracted in Britain to work in the islands. So in conclusion, you are not helping much to change your status quo and i dont really think that you want to change.
“ I am happy to accept having a British way of life ”. Great, but dont pretend to be something else. You can easilly say “Hey, im british and we lived here for centuries” and thats it.
“We could have just as easily said we wanted to be French or even Spanish”. Do you believe it?. Please go ahead and tell the british government that you all wants to be spanish. Even better, if you still live there, go to the globe tavern and scream in spanish “Las Malvinas son españolas”.
The 60 nationalities you claim exist represent nothing in your own census. We can discuss it.
“This differance has gone on for far to long and it is time for Argentina to do as Britain has done and let us choose our own destiny. Is that acceptable to you.”
Argentina will never relinquish its claim, even knowing that probably will never recovers them. Becouse we cant support colonialism. And the UK has not convinced even its closed ally of it.
The only one who has “accepted” your self-determination its the colonial power.
And you dont even have to negotiate with Argentina to unilaterally being recognized as a people different to those living in the UK. You just have to open the South American islands to south american people. Eventually, time will help. But, I sincerelly doubt you ever will. There is colonialism for some reason.
Going back to my point, Liberato, you said I support the self determination because they are “British” despite the fact I said EVERYONE should get the right to self determination, the Falklands could vote to join Argentina for all I care, it is their choice not Argentina’s to make. You keep trying to deny fundamental human rights just for your own country’s colonial gain.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Zaczac121, There are people that were born on argentine bases in the Antartic and people that even got married there. Do you support their right to self-determination in the Antartic?. If not why?.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Liberato. You are a confusing person. One part of you says we are not allowed a say in our own future yet you also say we are not allowed to be our own people.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse +2What is most interesting is that you the very Argentine people broke away from your very own spain because you felt you had a right to determine your own future.
So on that bases if we were to claim total independence would you honour our choice after all is that not what your country did.
No of course you would never allow us to declare independence because all you want is to take control of our land.
That is the exact same approach you used when you took the land away from the indigenous people. It is in your genetics to possess everything.
Yet you actually believe that taking those innocent peoples land was the right thing to do with no possibility of ever giving it back to them. Yet you say Britain must give back to you our land that actually never belonged to you in the first place.
You could not make it up.
If the Falklands wasn't a colony. Libby, it wouldn't have qualified for listing at the UN as a NSGT. To do so, the territory needed to be a colony, and have a people.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +1And yes, as prof Willetts has stated, the only result acceptable to the UN for delisting is independence. I thought that you had read it.
And the UN has not called for a negotiation since 1988. Negotiations took place in 1989/90 and there has been no call for talks since that time. The UN clearly believes the matter to be settled.
And, Antarctica is covered by the Antarctic Treaty. Getting born somewhere doesn't even convey an automatic right of citizenship, let alone self-determination.
As for arguments, Libby, you have yet to win a single one.
Liberato, the Antarctic treaty states clearly that no nation can own Antarctica and it’s impossible to live there permanently so even if a child was born there or two people got married there, they can’t sustainably live on the continent permanently without outside supplies which is the exact opposite of the Falklands which has a permanent population and is self-sustainable
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +2TiTMonde (He’s a complete TiT)
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0‘China is right about Taiwan, just like Iraq is right about Kuwait, just like Venezuela is right about Essequibo, and Guatemala is right about Belice, so is Argentina is right about the Falklands being their Malvinas Islands.
Yes, talking about:
‘colonial expansionist bullying robbers’.
And:
‘ripping off the world, raping cultures and peoples future patrimonies’.
Spot on there, just got your words mixed up a bit.
Liberato
Argentine bases in the Antarctic are all located on British territory, so under British law the children born there take the nationality of their parents.
Unfortunately for them, being born on British territory does not give automatic British citizenship.
Subject to immigration controls when they reach 18, no joke.
Falklands-Free, “You are a confusing person”. Indeed you are very confused. I have tried to be objective the best i can and i get a bunch of “we want to expells you”, “we dont recognize the existance of human lives”, “we are thieves”, “ we want to ethnically cleanse a population”, “we want to dominate the world”, etc.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know the war made us enemies back then, And it shouldnt ever happened. But this conflict started in 1833. Diplomatically, we tried everything. We have no fear and no animosity towards the British, if you know Argentina, you will find out we are very anglophophile. Except when it comes to Malvinas or the hand of god.
Britain have written the world's frontiers since ancient times, even in South America. They dont need us to aprove the formation of a new people. The problem is that they dont want a formation of a new people. They want to give Malvinas to themselves. That is what we will never accept. You can say that you pay british that comes from the other side of the planet to do your jobs. For us, to see you having a population of almost 100% of british origins is not natural, its not Australia.
You are invited to come here the times you want, no problem, but the sovereignty dispute is discussed in the UN and Argentina have always showed willing to negotiate.
Lorton, “the only result acceptable to the UN for delisting is independence”. I guess we are gonna have to wait then another Decade.
“the UN has not called for a negotiation since 1988”. What happened then?. Why the UN believe the matter settled while they remain the topic of Malvinas on its UNGA agenda each year?.
“Antarctica is covered by the Antarctic Treaty”. So, a treaty limit a fundamental human right of self-determination?.
“Getting born somewhere doesn't even convey an automatic right of citizenship, let alone self-determination.”. So it is about citizenship? So the british “self-determination” right in Malvinas is based on the british presumption that the islands are british?.
Self-determination is the right of the inhabitants, although the Islands are indeed British.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Argys born in British Antarctic Territory are not inhabitants, they are illegal immigrants.
The Falklands are not on the UN agenda every year, Libby. The subject is only on the provisional agenda, but needs to be called. To quote the latest UN working paper on that -
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +2”74. In its resolution 58/316, the General Assembly decided that the item entitled “Question of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas)” would remain on the agenda for consideration upon notification by a Member State. As at the date of the issuance of the present working paper, no such notification had been received. ”
https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/working-paper-2021.pdf
Every year there is an opportunity for ANY member of the United Nations to call for a GA debate. There has been no call since 1989, and no successful call since 1988 - which led to the last UN Resolution on the subject.
So, since 1989 no member of the UN has called for a discussion - not even Argentina.
What happened in 1989, of course, is that the 1988 resolution was complied with and there were negotiations in 1989/90.
The matter is now settled.
What should Argentina and the U.K. negotiate about? The only solution possible for Argentina is to “exercise full sovereignty” over the F.I. (and also other uninhabited archipelagos even less connected to Argentina) and “integrate” them into the TDF Province. That solution is, for obvious reasons, totally unacceptable for the islanders. And the U.K. has promised not change the status of the Islands without the consent of its people. So sending delegates to a negotiating table is just waist of taxpayers' money on both sides. Instead there should be proper peace negotiations to end this stupid conflict once and for ever. Argentina must accept that they will never take over the Falklands. It is just a dream which they must wake up from. But it seems to be the only thing uniting its people, so it is used by politicians of all colours to draw attention away from Argentina's real problems with its economy and oversized bureaucracy. This was a hundred years ago a “land of the future”, but its politicians (both civilian and military) have made it a mess.
Nov 22nd, 2021 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Forgot to mention, Libby, that the people of Antarctica do have the right of self-determination.
Nov 23rd, 2021 - 12:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Subject to being listed as a NSGT at the UN, of course.
Lorton, thats exactly what i was explaining to you many times now. So, what you are saying is that the matter is closed becouse of Argentina and the UK not calling it for being treated in the Assembly?. Becouse are two difference things. One thing is that Argentina and the UK decided not to call the topic of the Malvinas question in the UNGA and another thing is that the UN considered the matter closed while insisting in keeping the topic on its provisional agenda each year.
Nov 23rd, 2021 - 01:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Back to Antartica. So the british “self-determination” right in Malvinas is based on the british presumption that the islands are british?.
Swede, “The only solution possible for Argentina is to “exercise full sovereignty””. Of course that is the Argentine position like the british position is that that never happens. But dont you worry about Argentina. The status quo is purelly British. The ball is in your hand, not ours.
Libby, no. You still do not get it. The matter is closed because of the deal that Menem did at the UN in 1989. The question is not being called, because the UN has nothing left to say. The UN recognises the islanders' rights of self-determination. That is end of it.
Nov 23rd, 2021 - 01:41 am - Link - Report abuse +2Try this - https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2018/06/hurd-says-settled-december-1994-in-fi-newsletter.png
Again, no. The Falklands have been listed as a NSGT at the UN. The right of self-determination as a NSGT was granted by UN resolution 1514 in 1960. All the UN's doing. The UK may have sovereignty, but the Islanders right of self-determination is a separate matter. That limits the UK's actions as sovereign. So the reality of the situation, in international law, is that the Islanders have the power to decide their future, not the UK.
The ball, is actually in the Islanders hands.
The ball is indeed in our hands and we islanders through a referendum that Argentina refuses to accept made it abundantly clear what The Islanders want. They want the right to remain aligned with Great Britain and be allowed to determine their own future.
Nov 23rd, 2021 - 09:59 am - Link - Report abuse +4Argentina refuses to let that happen and to this very day still place trade embargo on the islanders in the hope they will persuade them to change their minds.
The Falklands inhabitants are a resilient people and continue to prosper and grow inspite of all their efforts to hinder the islanders development.
Argentina may forever lay claim to our homeland but they will never break the will of the people of the islands.
Libarato can squeak all he wants it wont convince us to accept Argentine rule.
He is right in one thing. Argentina should never have invaded our land.
He is also right in the fact because of that brutal invasion we islanders will never again trust Argentina no matter how much they try to reform.
They have had almost forty years to change their stance but they have in fact continued their act of aggression towards us.
The longer they keep up this aggression the less likely chance of getting the islanders to become closer to them.
They are cutting of their own noses to spite their own faces. Yet they cant see it.
Argentina should learn from Germany. Germany had a megalomaniac dictator who invaded Poland in 1939. The consequences were terrible. First of course for the countries occupied by the Nazis. But in the end also for Germany itself which was bombed to rubble, divided into occupation zones and losing vast territories in the east. But they had to accept the result of a war they themselves started, The country was divided in two states for over forty years. But after the end of the cold war Germany could be reunited. They dropped all territorial claims to became one of the most democratic countries in the world and friends and allies with most of their former enemies. And remember: Millions of Germans who had lived many generations in the east were expelled and transferred westward after 1945. After 75 years Germany has accepted that. They are not calling the Russians and Poles now living there a “transplanted population” without rights. Argentina is still after nearly 190 years whining and whining over a small contingent of military persons and families, who had lived in the “Malvinas” for some ten years years and expelled in 1833. Grew up and accept the fact. Take care of your already large country.
Nov 23rd, 2021 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Seems liberato has been deflated somewhat. Maybe away trying to find new false evidance to spout about.
Nov 24th, 2021 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Falklands-Free, I dont know what you refers to “false” evidence. All i said was objectivelly. It can be verified and discussed. And with links.
Nov 25th, 2021 - 12:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0I mentioned that all jobs in the field of education, health, the judiciary, engineering and governmental are requested in Britain. Can gives links.
I mentioned the list of the branches of the colonial government where are named only Britain born people:
The Royal Falkland Islands Police, Jeff McMahon
Fire chief Gardner Fiddes CMgr FCMI
Director of Emergency Services, Andy Bell
Falklands Chief Justice James Lewis
Governor of the Falkland Islands, Nigel Phillips
Falkland Islands Senior Magistrate Sarah Whitby
Director of Emergency Services and Island Security and Principal Immigration Officer Ms P amelaTrevillion
Director of Education Marie Horton
Director of Health and Social Services David O’Neill.
I was told that besides that, all decisions were made by the legislative assembly and i responded that most of that “Legislative Assembly” was also composed by people born in Britain too. And i offered to give proofs.
I said that even beyond everything we discussed, Argentina only required for sovereignty negotiations. Something all the British side including islanders refuse.
I also said that beside what Argentina request. It is not different to what the UN request. So blaming Argentina for the status that the UN or even the USA grant to the islands has no sense. You should first convince them instead of blaming Argentina that only is asking for peacefull negotiations.
Negotiations?
Nov 25th, 2021 - 02:58 am - Link - Report abuse +3We talked. From 1966 until 1982, when Argentina chose trial by combat - and lost.
There is nothing left to be said.
The UN? The UN has said nothing since 1988. No UN resolutions and no call for a debate in the General Assembly. The UN is not requesting talks. The UN is silent.
The matter is therefore settled. On the issue of sovereignty, there is nothing left to be said.
Unless Argieland fancies its chances at the ICJ.
What are the chances of that?
The Argentine Government have no islands to trade.
Nov 25th, 2021 - 09:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0No one has ever brought up the idea of debt or sovereignty trade off except the Argentines,
The Argentine politicians know very well they will never get hold of the Falklands, but they just use it to whip up nationalism to deflect from the real issues facing the country,
Liberato. You dont know the meaning of peaceful negotiations. 1982 proved that.
Nov 25th, 2021 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse +3Furthermore it is only Argentina who wants negotiations because Britain and the Falkland Islanders have already made it abundantly clear what we the Islanders want.
It's time you stopped blaming Us and the UK for lack of negotiation.
It is time that the whole of Argentina grew up and started listening to the other side of the story.
Fact is we have made our choice yet Argentina still wants to negotiate. Negotiate about what. The only negotiations you want is to secure sovereign rights over anothers homeland . Nothing more , nothing less.
We have repeatedly made it abundantly clear where we stand and yet Argentina refuses to accept our wishes.
That in your books is not negotiable because you want only one outcome no matter how many times any of us tell you what we want.
Your country is living so far in the past that it is in self destruction mode and you actually cannot or dont want to see it.
Moaning about colonisation will get you absolutely nowhere because in the eyes of both Britain and the Falkland Islands people your country wants to colonise us as well.
For a country that claims they want to see the end of colonialism you are not making a very good example of it are you.
You preach about letting us live as Argentines which we have repeatedly told you we dont want to be Argentines.
By your very statement you are in fact offering us to remain on our islands as colonist of Argentina.
So laughable is it not.
Far better to let the people of the Falklands get on with their lives.
To think that had you not invaded us we could very well have been trading with you and both parties could prosper and grow together. You chose to isolate us. Invade us and loose every financial opportunity offered and you are now regretting your actions so want to restart new negotiations.
Ain't going to happen though is it.you blew every chance you ever had of respect.
Lorton, “The matter is therefore settled.”. Congratulations then. Long live the status quo!.
Nov 25th, 2021 - 11:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Judge Jose, The sovereignty dispute started in 1833 when the british invaded and Argentina inmediately prostested. So the “they use it to whip up nationalism to deflect from the real issues facing the country” i think its wrong.
Falklands-Free, there were many “peaceful negotiations” and at least in two occasion a british willingness to recognize argentine sovereignty and ceding the colony. Of course many of those negotiations consisted on the british dilating the conversations or just purely demolished by the lobby of the feudal FIC.
Im not going to justify a military dictatorship for a war that cost both sides too much just to gain political redit. But after many unsuccesfull negotiations both side knew, diplomacy, would not last forever.
“It's time you stopped blaming Us and the UK for lack of negotiation.”. The UN have many times congratulated Argentina for its efforts to solve the sovereignty dispute. After all, it is the UN that request negotiations between the UK and Argentina and its only Argentina that sits on it waiting for its counterpart.
“Moaning about colonisation...”. Really?. No one has accused ever Argentina of been colonialist, ever. And if you see the way in which Argentina has always voted in all UN resolutions regarding decolonization, you will see where the values of Argentina stay.
“You preach about letting us live as Argentines which we have repeatedly told you we dont want to be Argentines.”. This is like the Antartic example where argentines that were born there can not claim self determination rights on there becouse they do not constitute a people different to those living in Argentina.
You do not and will not want to be argentine, for the simple fact that you are british. And a british generally, will want to remain been british. A French will not like to be either an argentine, he would like to remain being french. BECOUSE he is french!!!!
Liberato . It is abundantly clear you have no respect for the requests by the British and Falkland Islanders in the Un or Any other forum.
Nov 26th, 2021 - 12:43 am - Link - Report abuse +1What part of we wish to remain British and live the lives of our choosing do you not understand.
You harp on about 1833. Your lot tried to illegally settle a land that was not yours to settle. You were asked to leave and the records clearly show that the Argentine garrison left peaceably without a single protest.
Most of the civilians chose to align them selves with Britain and indeed there are living realities of those people here on the islands today. They dont claim our country to be yours.
To be perfectly honest the human race has moved on since 1833 and now pretty much every country has established their playing fields and have stopped fighting over the past. They are living in the future.
Argentina and a few other rogue countries have decided to live in the past and would rather cut their noses of to spite their faces.
You clearly come accross as a person who will not accept logic but wants power of control.
For the record again, Britain has repeatedly stated in the UN they will do nothing against the wishes of the people of the falkland islands. That shows huge respect for a people. Argentina does not have that same respect otherwise they too would except the wishes of the Falkland islanders.
We islanders do not seek the permission of the UK to run our economic affairs. We run our country as we please.
Happens that Britain believe in our right to self determination. ARGENTINA the so called peaceful nation does not recognise that right.
You can twist every conversation whichever way you want but at the end of the day we islanders will not become a part of Argentina so start getting used to the idea. Your country might be a better place if it was not so aggressive to other people.
Remember Britain did not remove the illegal settlers by force in 1833 but Argentina tried that using force in 1982 and got severely beaten.
sta·tus quo
Nov 26th, 2021 - 01:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0/ˌstādəs ˈkwō/
noun
the existing state of affairs, especially regarding social or political issues.
Last letter from the UK to the UN
https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2021/10/letter-dated-29-sept-2021-in-english.pdf
Falklands-Free, i twist a conversation????.
Nov 26th, 2021 - 03:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0quote1:“ It is abundantly clear you have no respect for the requests by the British and Falkland Islanders in the Un or Any other forum.”. And the respect of the United Nations that considers the Malvinas and other nine territories to be under british colonialism?. Is it Argentina's fault that the British and Falkland Islanders (also british) claim in the UN that they are something the UN considers they are not?.
quote2:“ You harp on about 1833. Your lot tried to illegally settle a land that was not yours to settle”. By 1833 not even your monarchy thought they had even the suspicious of having any right to it after 60 years of abandon without any claim nor protest. They settled in an already settled land and founded a port in Trinidad Island. They didnt moved from there until they left. The first time they landed in Soledad Islands was in 1833 when they invaded.
quote3:“...the Argentine garrison left peaceably without a single protest.” Britain was a friendly nation that had signed a treaty with Argentina 8 years before 1833. Argentina were not going to start a war with a “friendly” nation. Althrough they refused to raise the flag in protest and was ready to defend the territory if not for the many british in our ranks and the superior military of England.
quote4:“Most of the civilians chose to align them selves with Britain”. The garrison, soldiers and families had to forcible left. Those that could stay. Rebelled and even raised an argentine flag in protest. Some of them were taken to Britain to be judged without the justice recognize any jurisdiction of Britain on there.
Incredible quote5: “You clearly come accross as a person who will not accept logic”. The logic dictates that if you ask the french if they wants to be german or french, they will always choose France. In a population of a 98% of british origins its the same logic.
You talk about british as them and your passport says you are british no “falklnder”
“By 1833 not even your monarchy thought they had even the suspicious of having any right to it after 60 years of abandon without any claim nor protest.”
Nov 26th, 2021 - 03:33 am - Link - Report abuse +1Strange then that we protested to Buenos Aires in 1829 and 1832.
There was a dispute between Spain and Britain. Spain acknowledged British hegemony in the western islands in 1771, and sovereignty over all the islands in 1863.
Argentina was never anything but a trespasser in the Falkland Islands.
Argentina was never in the game.
Lorton, by 1820, Argentina took formally posesion of the islands. Raised the flag and informed all nations. BY 1825 the UK signed treaties with Argentina without any claim, nor protest of any kind for a territory they had left 51 years before.
Nov 26th, 2021 - 04:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0By 1828 Vernet was already granting fishing permits.
By 1829, George Murray (minister of war) wrote to Arthur Wellesley, Prime Miniter and 1st Duke of Wellington to recommend that in view of the loss of spanish power of the colonies of South America, it would be the best time to recapture the possession of the “Falkland Islands”. Being replied by the PM as this:
“It is not clear to me that we have ever possessed the sovereignty of all these islands. The convention certainly goes no farther than to restore to us Port Egmont, which we abandoned nearly sixty years ago.....That which i would recommend is that the government of Buenos Ayres should very quietly but very distinctly be informed that his majesty has claims upon Falkland Islands....”
They knew they had no rights to be there but they needed that strategic colony.
quote:“There was a dispute between Spain and Britain”. There was no dispute. The convention in 1770 restaured only Port Egmont conserving spanish rights. The british left, leaving the first and only power (Spain) to control the islands and its surroundings.
“Spain acknowledged British hegemony in the western islands in 1771”. By “western Islands” you mean Trinidad Island. Which is the only place where the british were. And i doubt that Spain ever recognized any hegemony if they expelled them in the first place under spanish orders.
They returned Egmont saying that the way they were expelled, was never ordered (obviously to avoid war). But did not recognize any british right whatsoever to that land.
quote: “and sovereignty over all the islands in 1863” Again you to restort to own inventions Lorton?. Really?.
Trespasser????. By 1829 British government was 55 years extint in that part of the globe.
Libby
Nov 26th, 2021 - 07:40 am - Link - Report abuse +2Argentina did not exist in 1820. Not recognised by Britain until 1823.
And the United Provinces did not claim the islands in 1825. We asked what was being claimed, and Buenos Aires published their response in London in 1825. It's here - https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/an_account_historical_political_and_stat.pdf
Vernet had tacit British permission from 1826 until 1829, after which, he didn't.
Wellington? “It is not clear to me that we have ever possessed the sovereignty of ALL these islands.” So he knew that we possessed the sovereignty of the western Islands.
The Spanish recognised British possession of West Falkland in 1771. As for supposed conservation (reservation?), I quote an American -
“The reservation was a nullity, inasmuch as she (Spain) had no claim, either by prior discovery, prior possession, prior occupation or even the shadow of a name. The restoration of Port Egmont, and the disavowal of the act by which she was temporarily dispossessed, after discussion, negotiation, and solemn agreement, gave to the title of Great Britain more stability and strength; for it was a virtual acknowledgement, on the part of Spain, of its validity. Great Britain might then have occupied and settled all the islands, and fortified every harbor, without giving to Spain any just cause of umbrage.”
[Francis Baylies to Manuel Vicente de Maza, July 10th, 1832]
And another - “A treaty between Spain and England was concluded, whereby the latter gained quiet possession of Falkland Isles.” [The Universal Chronologist and Historical Register from the Creation to the years 1835… Henry Boyle 1835]
And no, I mean Gran Malouine (West Falkland) as stated in the 1771 convention by Spain - “... at the island commonly called Great Malouine, and by the English Falkland's Island,...”
I must also remind you that Argentina is not Spain, and that Argentina was never in the game.
Britain arrived in 1765. We never left.
Do try to learn the real history.
So liberato.
Nov 26th, 2021 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse +1You deny the fact that when Britain actually had a settlement at Port Egmont during the time France also had a settlement at Port Louis , Spain never invaded Port Egmont and that the British abandoned the settlement. So this factual statement is untrue.
1770: Falkland Crisis: Five Spanish ships arrive at Port Egmont with over 1400 troops under the command of General Madariaga. The British are forced to abandon Port Egmont and threaten war.
That clearly shows that a spanish force seized Port Egmont from the British but you will counter that as you do every comment ever made.
The fact is the dispute over the islands was between France and England.
Spain got invited into the argument and then Argentina who was a breakaway country of Spain decided there was a possibility to sneak in and establish themselves on the islands under the guise they inherited the Falklands from Spain who forgot to do their homework that France had no legal right to transfer the islands to spain because they had already realised that Britain was the rightful owners.
1780: Sealers occupying Port Egmont are evicted when it is destroyed by the Spanish to prevent the British from returning. So no mention of Argentina at that time.
Let us not forget Argentina broke away from Spain loosing all its rights to any spanish governance and protection.
The Falklands became a mythical idea that they were transferred when Argentina broke away from Spain. Remember Argentina did not exist in Patagonia at that time so it is interesting to see such a claim on the Falklands that they were so far away from. They still had to remove an indigenous people to expand their territory. Something they continue to attempt to do today over a territory that had never been theirs.
You can twist and try to rewrite history but nothing will allow you to take possession of our country. Get used to it.
I ran out of space before, but I should deal with this nonsense of Trinidad/Saunders Island.
Nov 26th, 2021 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse +1Port Egmont was (and is) a harbour.
A harbour is a body of sheltered water. In this case, sheltered by three islands - Kepple, Saunders and West Falkland. This is clearly made out in the 1770 chart published by Carrington Bowles and based upon the survey work in 1766 of McBride.
Port Egmont was not an island at all. It was all of Grand Malouine.
https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/egmont-1770.png
Quote Liberato “By 1825 the UK signed treaties with Argentina without any claim, nor protest of any kind for a territory they had left 51 years before”
Nov 28th, 2021 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse +2November 1849 - Convention for re-establishing the perfect Relations of Friendship between Her Britannic Majesty and the Argentine Confederation signed in Buenos Aires
“Under this Convention perfect friendship between Her Britannic Majesty's Government and the Government of the Confederation, is restored to its former state of good understanding and cordiality”. PERFECT FRIENDSHIP - NO OUTSTANDING DISPUTES
May 1866 Vice-President Marcos Paz opens Argentina's Congress and refers to an old dispute with some British citizens “The British Government has accepted the President of Chile as arbitrator in the reclamation pending with the Argentine Republic, for damages suffered by English subjects in 1845.
This question, which is the only one between us and the British nation, has not yet been settled” NO OTHER OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS WITH THE BRITISH NATION
1869 – Message to Congress - President Sarmiento announces
“Nothing is claimed from us by other nations; we have nothing to ask of them”
NOTHING TO ASK OF ANY OTHER NATION
1941 - Argentina’s President restates Argentina’s claim to the Falkland islands in his Message to Congress - first official claim in 91 years
91 YEARS WITHOUT RAISING THE ISSUE
Liberato has gone quiet since my last comment guess he is rewriting or researching more Argentine propaganda history.
Nov 29th, 2021 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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