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Montevideo, September 27th 2022 - 21:42 UTC

 

 

Johnson tells Fernández Falklanders and Ukrainians entitled to self determination

Monday, June 27th 2022 - 19:35 UTC
Full article 97 comments

President Alberto Fernández Monday told British Prime Minister Boris Johnson that more Britons were living in Argentina than in the Falkland Islands, but that did not change an iota the Conservative's leader stance that there was nothing to talk about in that regard because Falkland Islanders, like all people, have a right to self-determination, according to his post-meeting comments to the press quoted by Clarín. Read full article

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  • Tænk

    Hmmmmmm...

    Article's title says...:
    “Johnson tells Fernández Falklanders and Ukrainians entitled to self determination”

    I say...:
    - What did Johnson tell Fernández 'bout the entitlement to self determination of the ~6,000,000 russophone and/or russophile Ukrainians...?



    Johnson and Fernández agreed to work on a number of issues of interest to both the UK and ArgentinaPresident Alberto Fernández

    Jun 27th, 2022 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse -6
  • Swede

    Russophone Ukrainians do not necessarily want to join the Russia of Mr. Putin. The Ukrainian President (one of the greatest leaders of our time) himself comes from a Russian speaking family and the tv-series “Servant of the People” is staged in Russian. A majority of Ukrainians voted for Independence in 1991. 30 % have relatives in Russia. Some of the Russophones may have been russophiles a year ago. But the number of “russophiles” has drastically dropped since February this year. The leadership in the Kremlin has destroyed the friendship between the countries for generations to come.

    Jun 27th, 2022 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Chicureo

    I agree that the Ukraine leadership has indeed has shown extraordinary courage during the current crisis, but most of the disputed territory seems to now to be lost.
    Russians excell in playing chess...
    Meanwhile, Chile is receiving a wonderful snowfall here in the Andes...

    Jun 27th, 2022 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    What did Johnson say?

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-meeting-with-argentinian-president-fernandez-27-june-2022

    Jun 28th, 2022 - 12:30 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Falklands-Free

    Everything we hear or see is political hype by all countries leaders. Each one jousting for a better position on the world stage.
    Meanwhile the innocent are getting the worst deal. Ukrainian people are being killed every day this war has been going on. Argentina has starved half it's people because they have syphoned most of the money away from where it truly is needed.
    Many other countries are repeating similar patterns.
    Is it not time in this world to stop squabbling among ourselves and start to rebuild the respect we all had for one another . Over population has been the root of tragedy throughout the world. Starvation has driven many over the edge.war has devastated peoples homes adding to the misery.countries just like Argentina trying to control the smaller countries using bullying tactics that are almost equivalent to actual war.
    Maybe the most sensible thing to do is find a deserted island and put all the power hungry leaders together on it and let them fight among themselves for awhile. Then maybe the world will become a better place for all humanity.
    Money is the root of all evil with religion a close seccond. It brings out the evil in people.
    That is why we see so many unhappy Argentines having a go at everyone. They are living in very hard times.
    To think how much happier they could all be if they were to remove that sovereignty chip from their shoulders. The south atlantic region would again shine I am sure of that.
    It is a proven fact that good trading relations does more for humanity than any war.
    Oh for the day man discovers alien worlds. That will be the wake up call humans need to stop all this human tragedy that surrounds us.

    Jun 28th, 2022 - 06:49 am - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Tænk

    Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

    - If we just were to ignore the Brain-washed, Self-centered, Anti-argie Kelper-taliban rant in Mr. Falklands-Free comment above..., one could say that he makes a looooooot of sense...!

    - More sense than 99,9% of them comments appearing here at MercoPress... (including mine...)

    “Chapeau”..., young man...
    Keep Tænking and evolving...
    You may end becoming a decent Kelper geezer worth sharing long silences with...

    El Tænk...

    Jun 28th, 2022 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Martin Woodhead

    Argentina lost 1833 it lost in 1982.
    You lost

    Jun 28th, 2022 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free you trully live in a bubble. You are saying that becouse we have economic problems we resolves it by bullying other “nations”????.
    First, you are not a nation for anyone in this world except for the UK, You are a british colony. And that status is not invented by me, it is a status asigned by the United Nations.

    Secondly. When we have an economic problem, we suffers them alone. You british are in war every five years and dont tell me it is for “liberating” people. Now training for ww3 against Russia?.
    Third, you talking about innocence????. What was the strategic interest in adding Ukraine to NATO?. Ive never seen in my life the use of NATO orgnanization for defenses purposes.

    If you want to defend the innocent, why dont you tell your government, the UK, to return Diego Garcia to its owners instead of claiming they are protecting the “world” with the military base.
    Why dont you tell the UK to return Malvinas or at least open their inmigration to anyone who wants to reside there or invest there?.
    Why dont your government colaborate with the United Nations in decolonizing the ten territories under british colonilism in this 21 century?.
    Why dont you tell your government to stop exploiting Iraqs natural resources while you are at there?. Are iraqians population still guilty of having no weapons of mass destruction 20 years ago for you to keep stealing their oil?.

    We might be in economic problems. But we have a 2 month military conflict in almost 2 centuries. You have been at war every 5 years. And you talking about innocence?.

    Jun 28th, 2022 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse -5
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato.
    Couple of points that need correcting because they are not truths.
    First we are not a colony of Britain as you sugest. We are a British overseas territory that wishes to remain aligned with Britain.
    Argentina will in effect be colonising us against our wishes .would that mean Argentina would give the islanders their independence. I doubt it so it would be a colony stalemate by world standards.
    Seccond.
    We the people of the Falklands run our own economy independent from Britain. We have a British military garrison stationed here to ensure that Argentina can no longer threaten our life that we have chosen.
    We are not Britsins, we are for the world to know Falkland islanders of many generations.
    Third.
    You need to brush up on your outdated homework. We are not controlled by Britain when it comes to imigrants. In fact Britains have to apply for falkland status to live here or have sufficient work permits. We have a multicultural society from all over the world which also includes Argentine citizens many who came here after 1982 and made this place their home living as Falkland islanders.
    Fourth
    We have no input into what the British Government does in other places in the world just as they do not control what we do on our islands.
    As for investments we have many investors from many places around the world including Argentines who have come here and invested their money in a fishing company as one example.
    So before you try to twist the facts why dont you start useful dialogue with the islanders. You would not need to second guess us.
    As for the UN suggesting we are a colony, again you need to do the research. They accept that we are a British overseas territory by our own choosing.
    Stop being a looser and start learning just how succesfull we have become as a small country.
    We rose out of the ashes of 1982 because Britain supported and protected us to make those choices.
    We have one of if not the best fishing industries in the world.

    Jun 28th, 2022 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free, nope, You claim you are a british overseas territory and you claim to be a nation. But that does not mean you are not a colony and not a british territory.
    https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/nsgt/falkland-islands-malvinas#:~:text=The%20Falkland%20Islands%20(Malvinas)*,Charter%20of%20the%20United%20Nations.
    That is the Malvinas official Status on the UN. In it, it is stablished that the islands are a non self-governing territory which its administering power is the UK. It is also stablished that its sovereignty is under is disputed. Need the NSGT list?.

    Quote:“Argentina will in effect be colonising us against our wishes”. I really dont see how a territory under colonialism will be colonising. Keeping the way they are perhaps?.

    Quote2:“We are not Britsins, we are for the world to know Falkland islanders of many generations.”.
    Did you see each year the decolonization committe where descendants of Vernet and many other Argentines goes to speak in the same way as the representatives of the colonial regime in the islands?. Well, those Argentines are descendants of other Argentines that lived there and were born there before those many generations you assume you have.
    This year, Ana Clara Vernet humbly wanted to give islanders her records of its ancestors living there, but was rejected arrogantly by “islanders” calling her a myth or something like that.

    quote3:“In fact Britains have to apply for falkland status to live here ...” Like these gentelments?:
    Director of Health and Social Services Thomas (Tom) Bale from the British Forces South Atlantic Islands
    The Royal Falkland Islands Police, Jeff McMahon
    Fire chief Gardner Fiddes CMgr FCMI
    Director of Emergency Services, Andy Bell
    Falklands Chief Justice James Lewis
    Governor of the Falkland Islands, Nigel Phillips
    Falkland Islands Senior Magistrate Sarah Whitby
    Director of Emergency Services and Island Security and Principal Immigration Officer Ms PamelaTrevillion
    Director of Education Marie Horton

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse -5
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato.
    We have been down these roads many time reading identical rubbish that you quote.
    The facts are that No, there are no descendants of those you claim were born here. We have had many visitors on short stays give berth to babies, we don't hear them claiming they are descendants of The Falkland islands. That is only your indoctrinated thinking.
    It is clear that no matter what any islander says , in your eyes it is all unbelievable. You wont event accept that by claiming what has never been proven is yours is anything but fantasy.
    Your insight into the UN description is but one aged statement of it's time. Even the UN have moved on and dont dwell on the past like you do.
    Your dispute has always been with Britain because of the past that Argentina and Britain has and you and your likes simply dont want to move on.
    Times have changed. I dont see you appologising to the indigenous people of Patagonia. That is because those people did not defeat you as Britain has done.
    This whole charade about sovereignty is the only piece of a past that you cling to , just to keep the hatred towards Britain alive.
    While you are doing that you are destroying the very land and people of Argentina.
    Every leader in Argentina wants just as you do only one outcome to take what you know is a British piece of territory because it is there way of trying to get one over a much more powerful country
    What you are failing to recognise is that these very islands are home to three and a half thousand people who while wishing to remain a part of a British overseas territory, also have human rights on their side. Of course human rights does not exist in Argentina as has been recorded. Twenty thousand dissapeared varifies that fact and you cant hide from it .
    So stop repeating so much untruths and start real dialogue to make real peace among people.
    That is not a part of your teaching so doubtful you will ever change. Indoctrinated people seldom do.

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 08:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tænk

    Mr. Falklands-Free...
    An addition of what I wrote above...
    Please inform yourself and keep Tænking and evolving...

    Fact 1...:
    - Just in the southern Argie provinces of Santa Cruz and Chubut they are currently some 120 resident families wich family trees clearly show their Jock..., Paddy..., Taffy and Sassenach ancestry WITH TWO, THREE, FOUR OR MORE Kelper generations on their backs...
    - I personally know some 5 or 6 of them...
    - More than half..., proudly bear their Anglo surnames ubiquitously present today...east & west in them windblown Malvinas islas....

    Fact 2...:
    - Our dispute has always been with Britain because of the historic aggresive, colonial attitude of the UK against Argentina...
    - Our current dispute with the UK is about the control and usufruct of some 20,000,000 million square km. in the South Atlantic and Antarctica..., including them British occupied Malvinas Islas...
    -Now..., if you happen to have one..., take a gooood look at your passport...
    - Our current dispute is indeed with the UK..., of which ya Kelpers are citizens of... Simples...

    Fact 3...:
    - About human rights in Argentina...
    - A sad period of ours..., luckily superated during the last forty years...
    - Please make me aware of - ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THIS PLANET - that has put the whole of their Military Farces Top Brass under trial and sentenced thousands of them to loooong imprisonment terms for their human rights violations..., prisons where many of them ended their days...

    - So..., as you yourself write above...:
    “Stop repeating so much untruths and start real dialogue to make real peace among people.”

    Capisce...?

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Judge Jose

    Again Libby repeating the same old nonsense that has been debunked 50 times already .
    and as for Taenk in his own words, pffffffffff,

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 10:27 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free: quote1:“Your insight into the UN description is but one aged statement of it's time. Even the UN have moved on and dont dwell on the past like you do.”.

    The UN still keeps the islands under its decolonization process. No matter how many times you claim to be a self-government. In all the history of the UN, there is not one single Malvinas resolution that do not recognize the sovereignty dispute, the colonial situation of the islands and the need to put an end colonialism in all its forms by negotiating sovereignty between Argentina and the UK. There is also not one moment where the Malvinas islands had other status in the UN than a Non Self-governing Territory.

    Judge Jose, nothing was debunked. You guys claim that the UN keeps the islands under the colony list becouse of burocracy. Becouse islanders did not choosed the three options for delisting of the decolonization process. There is no excuse more pathetic than that. The FACTS are on the same UN webpage. Try to visit some time.

    These are practically all branch of government in the colonial regime in Malvinas. Why dont we guess where they comes from to see the composition of the cosmopolitan “new nation”?.:
    Director of Health and Social Services Thomas (Tom) Bale from the British Forces South Atlantic Islands
    The Royal Falkland Islands Police, Jeff McMahon
    Fire chief Gardner Fiddes CMgr FCMI
    Director of Emergency Services, Andy Bell
    Falklands Chief Justice James Lewis
    Governor of the Falkland Islands, Nigel Phillips
    Falkland Islands Senior Magistrate Sarah Whitby
    Director of Emergency Services and Island Security and Principal Immigration Officer Ms PamelaTrevillion
    Director of Education Marie Horton
    John Birmingham MLA
    Mark Pollard MLA

    PD: Let me know if that list needs to be updated.

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Judge Jose

    Libby you have got an obsession on which people do certain jobs, it is irrelevant, in the UK the head of the bank of England was Canadian, our clown of a prime minister was born in the USA. the people you have named report to the Falkland Islands government, that is who employs them, The Falklands could have independence tomorrow if they wanted it and that would be the end of your c24 committee obsession, move on with your life,

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Liberato

    Judge Jose, not all branch of government officials of the UK were born in the USA or Canada. Dont you agree?.
    A unilateral declaration of Independence will not grant the colonial regime the delisting of the decolonization process. But even if so, you fail to recognize the current status they have NOW and even try to convince others of the opposite.
    Instead of making theories of what would happens if the colonial regime declares unilaterally “independence”, why dont you recognize the current process of decolonization of a territory under british colonialism and recognize the multiple and insistence request by the UN to the UK and Argentina to negotiate sovereignty so they can continue decolonizing?.

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Judge Jose

    Another bonkers reply Libby, the Falklands have the same status as territories such as Bermuda,Virgin Islands etc, all could choose independence when ever they want, they choose not to, the FIG run the country not Britain, why is that so hard for you to understand, when you have a population of only 3500 then your pool of skills is limited and you look elsewhere until you have enough of your own resources, again i say to you stop wating your life on a fantasy and a myth, there are far more important things in life,

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Falklands-Free

    All of you with your arrogance of the islanders being part of a British overseas territory is done by choice not colonialism as you keep saying. Yes we could become independent but we choose not to for one very good reason. The aggression from Argentina who would never support our right to be independent because the only outcome you ever want is total sovereignty and that will never be on offer.
    Time to stop chasing elusive dreams.
    I notice one comment saying there are several generations of Irish Welsh and Scottish in Argentina with Falklands connections. But not of Argentine origin and after 1833.
    So dream on.

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tænk

    TWIMC...

    - “But not of Argentine origin and after 1833.” ..., Mr.Kelper triumphantly says above...

    - Nope..., the Imperial Royal Navy took good care of the ethnic cleansing..., I say...

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Terence Hill

    “Our dispute has always been with Britain because of the historic aggressive”

    Is a false flag argument, according to the UN.

    “.. It is therefore not surprising that the General Assembly declared in 1970 that the modem prohibition against the acquisition of territory by conquest should not be construed as affecting titles to territory created 'prior to the Charter regime and valid under international law'..”
    Akehursts Modern Introduction to International Law by Peter Malanczuk

    “The UN still keeps the islands under its decolonization process”

    Then it is ultra vires, since the Islanders are legally decolonized
    with the completion of the Referendum .

    ”Decolonization (American English) or Decolonisation (British English) is the undoing of colonialism ... The fundamental right to self-determination is identified by the United Nations as core to decolonization, allowing not only independence, but also other ways of decolonization. The United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization has stated that in the process of decolonization there is no alternative to the colonizer but to allow a process of self-determination.”

    and according to

    “UN Charter; DECLARATION REGARDING NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES; Article 73; Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for ..peoples have not yet attained .. self-government recognize the principle ..b. to develop self-government, ...”

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Liberato

    Judge Jose, quote1: “ the Falklands have the same status as territories such as Bermuda,Virgin Islands etc...”. Exactly, they are all territories under the UN decolonization process. In other words, they are colonies of Britain.
    List of Non Self-Governing Territories under the UN process of decolonization:
    https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/nsgt
    It is not hard for me to underestand. You claim one thing, The UN claim the opposite thing and Argentina claims the same thing as the UN, except for the sovereignty dispute where the UN takes no sides regarding sovereignty rights.

    Falklands-Free, there is absolutely no agression from Argentina. You have the latest military patrol boats custoding the unilaterally declared post 1982 as the Malvinas exclusion zone and a huge milirary base, with periodic trainings. So, no argentine navy putting pressure there, no argentine fishing passing over there and no military threats of any kind coming from Argentina. What you consider an agression, is the continue arrogance by the colonial regime, claiming to be treated as a sovereign nation. And when the results are obviously the correspondent with a colonial regime, they consider it as agression.
    But we are ok with the Status quo. We will always claim what is ours, and you simulate you are a new nation, a republic or Narnia.

    Terence Hill, Again with your conquest theorie?.

    Quote:“ the Islanders are legally decolonized with the completion of the Referendum .”
    Legally for the UK only. You guys have a great trouble in differenciate between laws and international laws. Internal Law is what you claim of Selg-Government and the referendum and bla bla bla or what Argentina claims through its laws. And international law, is when the UN dont recognize any referendum and ask the british to inform the progress on NSGT ( the COLONY)..

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Judge Jose

    Libby , a BOT is not a colony, Continue wasting your life on your fantasy and myth,

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Judge Jose,For the UN it is.

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Terence Hill

    “What Argentina claims through its laws.”

    National constitution enacted in the latter part of the twentieth century for the sole purpose to bolster a previously failed false claim, is still of no effect.
    In fact, it’s pathetically laughable.

    “For the UN it is.” On the contrary it is not.

    With the completion of the Referendum .
    ”Decolonization (American English) or Decolonisation (British English) is the undoing of colonialism ... The fundamental right to self-determination is identified by the United Nations as core to decolonization, allowing not only independence, but also other ways of decolonization. The United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization has stated that in the process of decolonization there is no alternative to the colonizer but to allow a process of self-determination.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decolonization

    and according to

    “UN Charter; DECLARATION REGARDING NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES; Article 73; Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for ..peoples have not yet attained .. self-government recognize the principle ..b. to develop self-government, ...”

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato,
    The reason there are no Argentine patrol boats in the Falklands waters is not because you proclaim to be peaceful but because there is a British deterrent to stop that from happening again.
    Your lot certainly were not very peaceful in 1982.
    Quite the opposite.
    Your government can never be trusted again and that is proof of the continued aggression shown towards the islanders. Kind of defunks your theory of peace..
    The people of the Falkland islands stopped being a colony when the voted in 2013 with a total of 99.8% of the people saying they wished to be A british overseas territory. No mention of a colony. However Argentina refuses to accept that referendum because they know to do so they no longer have a case. We are today a self governing people. Protected by Britain to ensure we live the lives of our choosing.
    Nothing you can do even in the UN to change that either.
    So contrary to your mythical beliefs. We are no longer a colony thus fulfills the C24 and the UN requirements.
    But of course your country will never accept that decision and will continue to raise your claim no matter what is decided. The ICJ is your only course left to take now but you wont go there because your case is flawed.
    I reckon a hundred years from now, if of course Argentina still exists, this issue will be brought up by people like you.
    Our population will likely be a hundred times bigger by then. Weakening even further any attempt to steal our land.

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Monkeymagic

    ”Did you see each year the decolonization committee where descendants of Vernet and many other Argentines goes to speak in the same way as the representatives of the colonial regime in the islands?. Well, those Argentines are descendants of other Argentines that lived there and were born there before those many generations you assume you have.
    This year, Ana Clara Vernet humbly wanted to give islanders her records of its ancestors living there, but was rejected arrogantly by “islanders” calling her a myth or something like that.

    Except that entire paragraph is complete nonsense.

    Luis Vernet was not Argentine, he was German and he married a woman from Montevideo so she wasn't Argentine either....so their children, a mix of Uruguayan and German.

    Vernet first arrived on the islands in 1828 having sought permission of the British government to go there, and left by his own accord in 1831 leaving erm...Matthew Brisbane in charge of his business. Brisbane was British.

    So Ana Clara Vernet knows she is talking bollocks, her ancestor is not proof of an Argentine community, but a German/Uruguayan business, for 3 years, before he left voluntarily.

    When accurate evidence is presented of a proper Argentine community, who lived on the islands for generations, who had their livelihoods stolen by the British is presented, perhaps people might take it seriously.

    When blatantly misleading bollocks is spewed it will be laughed at.

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Liberato

    Terence Hill, Have you ever read any UN resolutions regarding Malvinas?. Of any UN body?.Ever?.
    The self-determination right and its importance for decolonization its something we all agree. Argentina have always voted in favour of that right, instead of ....you know who. But it is not applicable to the Malvinas inhabitants becouse they do not form a people distinct to those of Britain.
    A people entitled to a self determination right is more important even than a sovereignty dispute. Becouse it is a people that evolved through waves of inmigration, isolation or culture. But, again, it is not the case of Malvinas.
    In the Chagos consultation of the ICJ, it is very defined the scopes and limits of the right to self-determination. You should check that out.
    In resume, stop shooting in the open, go read any resolution regarding Malvinas to underestand the opposition of the UN and Argentina to the status quo imposed in the colony of Malvinas.
    .
    Falklands-Free, quote:“The people of the Falkland islands stopped being a colony when the voted in 2013 with a total of 99.8% of the people saying they wished to be A british overseas territory. No mention of a colony”.
    I wonder who would mention a colony within an illegal referendum made by the colonial power, without the assistance of the UN body in charge of monitoring its decolonization?. One of the aims of the Decolonization Committe is to assist to organize referendums to the peoples of the NSGT. In other words, a referendum made by Britain to its own citizens asking them if they would like to remain being british.

    Monkeymagic, Vernet was Argentine and was even governor of Malvinas. He did not sought permission of the British government to go there. Where did you get that idea?. About brisbane there were many britons working for Argentina, the same with germans, french, etc.

    Jun 29th, 2022 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Monkeymagic

    Vernet was born in Hamburg and didnt even go to South America until he was 30.

    He sought permission from the British consulate in Buenos Aires in 1828, as he was fully aware of the British claim to the islands.

    So I repeat, a German businessman who sought British permission to go to the islands in 1828, left them voluntarily in 1831, leaving British Matthew Brisbane in charge of the business.

    I could call myself Governor of the moon, it doesnt make it true.

    The Vernet community was a private enterprise lasting 3 years, not an Argentine community, ending when he left the islands. The Mestevier escapade lasted 3 months ending when his own crew murdered him and raped his wife.

    I am sorry the historic facts do not suit the Argentine narrative.

    As for the idea that the Falkland community is denied self determination by the fact they are not distinct from Britain, if this were true (which it isn't), then you destroy your own argument as they would not be a colony but a integral part of the UK.

    Every which way you argue it, Argentina has zero claim and zero rights.

    There has NEVER been an Argentine population
    There was NEVER a usurpation
    The Falkland Islander community is either British or Falkland Islander NOT Argentine

    Decades of lies, which you have swallowed whole.

    Jun 30th, 2022 - 05:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Argentine citizen

    Johnson's comparison is too stupid, in fact it makes him quite ridiculous because it contradicts the English position.

    The United Nations right to self-determination applies to very specific conditions.
    The islanders have the same right to self-determination as the 6 million Ukrainians who live in Donestk and Lugansk in the Donbass region and who perceive themselves as Russians. That is, it is inapplicable.
    Russia becomes the United Kingdom, and the islanders are the citizens of Donetsk, Lugansk and Crimea who perceive themselves as Russian.

    the fact that they perceive themselves as russians means that russia can annex a part of ukraine? Clearly not, because the territorial integrity of the countries is inviolable

    Jun 30th, 2022 - 07:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tænk

    Sr. Argentine citizen...

    You just put your finger on the top double standard treat in Engrish politics...:
    - “What's good for the foreign goose AIN'T good for the Engrish gander.”

    - Don't get me wrong though...
    Them Engrish individuals (Kelpers included) have may a good trait as their automatic apologizing nervous tic..., their talking mostly 'bout the weather..., their finding queue-jumping to be the ultimate crime...., their dry jokes..., etc..., etc..., etc...

    That's why we patiently bear with them (as Gandhiji did...) and wait for their unavoidable retreat from the last pathetic remains of their once mighty Empire..., based on the value of money..., haughtiness and their disrespect for all foreign... ;-)

    Capisce...?

    Jun 30th, 2022 - 08:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    ”The self-determination right ... But it is not applicable to the Malvinas inhabitants becouse they do not form a people distinct to those of Britain.”

    Aren’t you the proven liar.
    So, you claim, but are unable to provide one iota of proof. Whereas it is perfectly clear who is entitled to the right.

    “The United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization has stated that in the process of decolonization there is no alternative to the colonizer but to allow a process of self-determination.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decolonization

    Further, supported by ICJ rulings.

    ”is that the right of self-determination, which the ICJ found to be jus cogens in the East Timor case, is a right of all peoples, not only of those in a colonial context. ... “
    Western Sahara; “The validity of the principle of self-determination, defined as the need to pay regard to the freely expressed will of peoples, ...the subsequent development of international law in regard to non-self-governing territories, as enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, made the principle of self-determination applicable to all of them”

    Jun 30th, 2022 - 09:52 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Falklands-Free

    Monkymagic, you are wasting your time trying to have dialogue with the likes of .liberato and those associated with him.
    That is one person that is so out of touch with the truth.
    You could produce all the records of Vernets documented birth death etc. He would still deny it.
    Fact is he and his lot are living proof of just how powerful indoctrination really is in Argentina.
    In all the years of working the internet, I have come to realise that those sort of people are implanted by Argentina as propaganda trolls.
    They will never accept that there are two sides to every story.
    They prattle on about decolonisation on the one hand but refuse to accept that we are a people in our own right on the other.
    None of us are as they say implanted. Our ancestors came from all over the world to start a new way of life.
    Just as did many people who migrated to Argentina. They also sought a new life.
    That still goes on today just about everywhere in the world.
    Argentina as these morons want us to believe are not the centre of the universe. They are in fact the left overs of a once powerful Spanish culture that did not like the way their mother country was heading so broke away.
    Happens still today in many parts of the world.
    The only real part is the entertainment they bring us when they start their ranting.
    Would be a very boring life not having their whinging to make us laugh.

    Jun 30th, 2022 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    Argentine citizen
    According to Ban Ki Moon, all the NSGT listed with the UN have the right to self-determination, it’s in the UN charter, decolonisation declaration (UNGA 1514) and subsequent UNGA resolutions (like 2065).

    Territorial integrity of countries is not inviolable, hence Eritrea, South Sudan, Serbia, Montenegro, East Timor and Kosovo exist.

    Cession is possible but there are steps to follow, you have a free and fair referendum for a start.

    Of course in Crimea and Donbass self-determination ‘is not applicable to the Russian inhabitants because they do not form a people distinct to those of Russia’, according to Argentina and Liberato they are an ‘implanted population’.

    Academic now anyway, Russian speaking, Russian inhabited Ukraine no longer exists, it has been completely destroyed whilst being liberated by the Russian army.

    Jun 30th, 2022 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Terence Hill

    “Territorial integrity of countries is not inviolable,”

    Apparently, they are.

    “Charter of the United Nations
    Chapter I — Purposes and Principles
    Article 2(1)–(5)
    The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.

    4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.”

    This is only applicable to events that occurred post UN Charter. Thus, it is not applicable retroactively to 1833.

    Jun 30th, 2022 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Pugol-H

    ‘Cession is possible.’

    ‘Hence Eritrea, South Sudan, Serbia, Montenegro, East Timor and Kosovo exist.’

    Anyway, ‘territorial integrity’ does not apply here, as the Islands are and always have been British and never legitimately been part of, or occupied by Argentina, in any form, they cannot ‘disrupt’ the ‘territorial integrity of Argentina’.

    Liberato
    UN says the ‘inhabitants’ of the NSGT have the right to self-determination.

    ‘Inhabitants’ is defined as, ‘a person or animal that lives in or occupies a place’.

    There is no ‘applicable’ to some but not others, mentioned in any UN document anywhere.

    Your view (to which you are of course entitled) of who does and does not have the right to self-determination, is simply not supported by any evidence.

    Perhaps it is you should read some UN resolutions.

    The clue here is in the names.

    Malvinas, from the French Malouines, named after the French port of St Malo, where the French settlers came from who founded the first (European) settlement in 1764.

    Before this there was no name in Spanish or French for the Islands.

    Falklands, after Vicount Falkland in 1690, before this the English had called them Hawkins's Maidenland since 1592.

    Vernet asking permission from the British is in Wrongapedia, so it must be right!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Vernet

    ‘Luis Vernet (born Louis Vernet; March 6, 1791 – January 17, 1871) was a merchant from Hamburg of Huguenot descent. Vernet established a settlement on East Falkland in 1828, after first seeking approval from both the British and Argentine authorities’.

    As I have said before, you cannot have an Argentine Governor of a British territory.

    Jun 30th, 2022 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Terence Hill

    “Territorial integrity of countries is not inviolable”

    4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.”

    Yes, there are well documented instances of cessation, (which is nothing to do with Article 2(1)–(5)) but that is from an internal population. While territorial integrity involves an act of force by a foreign nation which is barred under Article 2(1)–(5).
    Close but no cigar.

    Jun 30th, 2022 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Liberato

    Wow i got a little late.
    Monkeymagic, quote1: “Vernet was born in Hamburg and didnt even go to South America until he was 30.”. So....?. did all argentines were born in Hamburg?.
    quote2: “He sought permission from the British consulate in Buenos Aires in 1828”. What permission? what did the “permission” said?. Was a permission requested to the british government?.
    quote3: “The Vernet community was a private enterprise lasting 3 years, not an Argentine community”. The vernet community?. His enterprise was privatelly requested to and authorised by the argentine government, and was later named governor also by the government.

    quote4:”As for the idea that the Falkland community is denied self determination by the fact they are not distinct from Britain, if this were true (which it isn't), then you destroy your own argument as they would not be a colony but a integral part of the UK.“
    It is true and its population are indeed part of the UK, but the islands are not. Thats why it is a bilateral issue and not a trilaterall issue.

    Terence Hill, obviously you did not readed UN resolutions regarding Malvinas or the ICJ advisory opinion in the case for the chagossians . PAge 37 and 38.
    quote:”This is only applicable to events that occurred post UN Charter. Thus, it is not applicable retroactively to 1833.“. It is the same excuse the british used in the chagoss case of not respecting the territorial integrity of Mauritious.

    Pugol-H, quote:”According to Ban Ki Moon, all the NSGT listed with the UN have the right to self-determination”. He is gone and didnt said that. He said that it is the impression that people should be able to decide their own future.

    Too many opinions and we cant agree on the most simple facts. The current situation under the UN of the Malvinas islands. I can give you the list of Non self governing territories under the decolonization process and you still claim they are self-governed and not a colony. AMAZING!!!!.

    Jun 30th, 2022 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Terence Hill

    “Obviously you did not readed UN resolutions regarding Malvina”s

    I’ve read the most pertinent one. Which puts the kibosh on all Argentine pretensions.

    “.. It is therefore not surprising that the General Assembly declared in 1970 that the modem prohibition against the acquisition of territory by conquest should not be construed as affecting titles to territory created 'prior to the Charter regime and valid under international law'..”
    Akehursts Modern Introduction to International Law by Peter Malanczuk

    Chagoss is possibly germane to a UN Charter challenge.
    There is nothing in in the Charter that can be retroactively applied to 1833, as the UNGA declaration of 1970 indicates .

    Jun 30th, 2022 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Judge Jose

    What is amazing Libby is the constant waffle that you repeat over and over again, you have been given fact after fact on countless threads that Argentina was never in the game, just because you cant accept it doesnt mean its not true, your indoctrination will never allow you to see the truth,

    Jun 30th, 2022 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Islander1

    Liberato,
    For Information - all the people you list several times- with the exception of the Governor- are here on WORK PERMITS
    That means they have no right to buy property or remain after the end of their job here. If they stay here for I think 5 years minimum- they can apply for a Permanent Residence Permit- they can then live here permanently and buy property.
    To have a Vote etc- they have to be here for a bit longer and then apply for Falklands Status - ie become an Islander.
    These same set of rules apply be you British- Canadian- Chilean or Argentine etc. NO discrimination or favouritism.

    The Governor is appointed by the Queen as her Representative here - so no he has no Work Permit. But neither has he any rights of permanent abode etc once his term is over. He would have to retire first and then apply as a private person for a work permit and have a job to come to.

    Jun 30th, 2022 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Terence Hill, we have discussed this many times before. Conquest does not apply to the Malvinas case. Argentina was not at war with Britain.

    Judge Jose, you have no facts. You claim the islands to be self-government and i show you a link of the United Nations with a list of Non Self-Governing Territories with Malvinas on it. A Non Self-Governing territory is quite the opposite to a “Self-Governing territory” dont you think?. And what is your reply?: Please remind me one more time.

    Islander1, What kind of vote do you think they need?. Or what kind of status do you think they need?. All branch of government are in power of people born in the other side of the world. Specifically in Britain.
    The Education, Justice, Health, Infrastructure, Security, Defense, government, Foreign Relations, Financing, Banking, Housing, Exports, Imports, Inmigration, Emigration,etc. ALL depends on people born in Britain and contracted in Britain to work there, to make your house, to send you the car they later sells to you, the teachers that your sons are going to learn, etc.
    What are the Falkland Islanders?. Employees or young retired living of their pensions with shares in the fishing industry taken unilaterally to Argentina?.

    I live in Argentina and was born here. But if every branch of my government and society is run by people contracted in Madrid, born in Spain, with most of the companies located in Madrid, i would assume for sure that im not the local boy here.

    quote:“These same set of rules apply be you British- Canadian- Chilean or Argentine etc. NO discrimination or favouritism.”.
    Without mentioning that the guy who controls inmigration was born in Britain, the jobs are posted in Britain, and requested to british and people of the BOTs. The several judges and magistrates that decide if you crossed a red light or want independence, are brought from Britain. And mostly paid by the feudal FIC. . Your “constitution” was written in Britain, with british lawer under brits law

    Jul 01st, 2022 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Judge Jose

    Twisted facts, untruths, waffle, denial of reality and complete irrelevant statements of an indoctrinated man, no point in discussing anything with you and your obsession, as Falklands Free said its a wate of time,

    Jul 01st, 2022 - 06:45 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Terence Hill

    “Conquest does not apply to the Malvinas case. Argentina was not at war with Britain.”

    Yes it does as I have shown innumerable times.

    Hans Kelsen, in his book General theory of law and state he writes:

    “if the conquest is firmly established. Taking possession through military force of the territory of another State against the latter's will is possible, however, without any military resistance on the part of the victim. Provided that a unilateral act of force performed by one State against another is not considered to be war in itself (war being, according to traditional opinion, ”a contention between two or more States through their armed forces” and hence at least a bilateral action) annexation is not only possible in time of war, but also in time of peace. The decisive point is that annexation, that is, taking possession of another State's territory with the intention to acquire it, constitutes acquisition of this territory even without the consent of the State to which the territory previously belonged, if the possession is “firmly established.” It makes no difference whether the annexation takes place after an occupatio bellica or not.”

    Jul 01st, 2022 - 10:09 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Liberato

    Judge Jose, you have no facts. You claim the islands to be self-government and i show you a link of the United Nations with a list of Non Self-Governing Territories with Malvinas on it. A Non Self-Governing territory is quite the opposite to a “Self-Governing territory” dont you think?. And what is your reply?: Please remind me one more time.

    Terence Hill, quote:“Hans Kelsen, in his book General theory of law and state he writes:”. You took a part of what he wrote but you never finish reading fully that same text and have already corrected you before about it. If you continued reading he specified that it is possible to annex a territory from other nation without war. But that it was illegal. In page 214 of that book you quoted, he define conquest as, and i quote: “the case of taking possession of enemy territory through military force in time of war”. He then says that anexation of another state territory without war is possible, but it “implies a violation of international law.”.
    Please read that page and check your own source before talking. Becouse it definitelly does not support your view, it supports mine.

    Jul 01st, 2022 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Terence Hill

    “But it “implies a violation of international law.”

    It does no such thing otherwise you’d be able to quote it, like I can.

    “The decisive point is that annexation, that is, taking possession of another State's territory with the intention to acquire it, constitutes acquisition of this territory even without the consent of the State to which the territory previously belonged, if the possession is “firmly established.” It makes no difference whether the annexation takes place after an occupatio bellica or not.”

    Jul 01st, 2022 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Judge Jose

    Once again. Libby, i dont give a flying fart in space if the Falklands ,Bermuda, Virgin Islands, Turks and Caicos, etc are on the UN list that was written donkeys years ago, its not that important , all these Territories self govern themselves, London has no say apart from defence, they could come off the silly list tomorrow either if they chose independence or went down the French and Dutch route and chose to be incorporated as part of the UK, its not that important, what is important is that the people who live in these territories decide what they want. your obsession with the word colony is crackers as is the where people come from to work in the islands, Argentina will never get the Falklands unless the people who own them choose that road, instead of constant bullying why dont you and your crazy government go on a 50 year charm offensive , all your dubious claims in the past have been debunked over and over again by various people, but you just cant help yourself, on this thread i am done with your nonsense, as Falklands Free said, you are a lost cause,

    Jul 01st, 2022 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Liberato

    Terence Hill, you put the same paragragh you quoted in google and it will appears the google books in page 214 of the book of Hans Kelsen: General theory of law and state, where your text comes from. In that same page where you quoted that paragraph it continue with what i quoted.
    Google does no alow me to copy and paste the text from that page, but if you are going to quote a book and when i prove you wrong you discredit me without having 1 minute to check your own quote in the same page you took the text, then you are to lazy to even have a minimun debate. Im not gonna by a book online just to copy and paste.

    Jul 01st, 2022 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Swede

    If Argentina absolutely want to take over the F.I. and two more (uninhabited) archipelagos in the South Atlantic why do not they go to the International Court of Justice? I think it is because they do not even think that they would win such a case. They do not even believe in their own arguments

    Jul 01st, 2022 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Terence Hill

    “Google does no alow me to copy and paste the text from that page”

    You have access to same features that have. I prove, while you don’t.
    If that were true you would have proved it. No proof, no truth.

    “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Christopher Hitchens

    “An assertion is a statement offered as a conclusion without supporting evidence. A simple assertion is not an argument.”

    Jul 01st, 2022 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Pugol-H

    Let us review:

    “‘Territorial integrity’ does not apply here, as the Islands are and always have been British and never legitimately been part of, or occupied by Argentina, in any form, they cannot ‘disrupt’ the ‘territorial integrity of Argentina’.”

    Hence Article 2(1)–(5) is irrelevant.

    ‘Cession is possible.’

    Ergo.

    ‘Territorial integrity of countries is not inviolable’

    It’s really not complicated, do try and keep up.

    Liberato
    All the BOTs listed as NSGT by the UN are self-governing democracies, with constitutional arrangements they have chosen by popular votes. With the option to change to full independence, or association with another country, or whatever.

    I don’t know how much more de-colonised they could be, with being forced into independence or colonised by another state.

    Which is what this is all about, arguing the Kelpers do not qualify for their rights under the UN charter/decolonisation declaration, despite all the evidence to the contrary and none in support of the assertion, simply so they can be dispossessed in colonial fashion.

    Not to mention stealing the rest of the S. Atlantic/Antarctic as well. Which is a fundamentally different issue as they have no permanent population and therefore no issue of de-colonisation or self-determination.

    Here:

    https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/about

    A most informative read, with links to all the relevant UN documents including General Assembly resolution 1541 (XV).

    And no mention anywhere of ‘applicable’ to some but not others, the complete opposite in fact they stress the rights apply to everyone.

    Jul 01st, 2022 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Terence Hill

    “Territorial integrity of countries is not inviolable”

    It is according to the UN Charter it is violation that is attributable only to state acts, while cessation is a result an internal political division. The old apple and oranges. Domicile citizenry versus an external nation.

    Jul 01st, 2022 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Liberato

    Terence, this is what u quoted:” if the conquest is firmly established. Taking possession through military force of the territory of another State against the latter's will is possible, however, without any military resistance on the part of the victim. Provided that a unilateral act of force performed by one State against another is not considered to be war in itself (war being, according to traditional opinion, ”a contention between two or more States through their armed forces” and hence at least a bilateral action) annexation is not only possible in time of war, but also in time of peace. The decisive point is that annexation, that is, taking possession of another State's territory with the intention to acquire it, constitutes acquisition of this territory even without the consent of the State to which the territory previously belonged, if the possession is “firmly established.” It makes no difference whether the annexation takes place after an occupatio bellica or not.”“

    And this is what i quote which is right next to what u quoted:

    ”If the extension of the efficacy of a national legal order to the territorial sphere of validity of another national legal order, the efficacious anexation of a territory of one state by another state implies a VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW, the guilty state, as pointed out, exposes itself to the sanctions provided by general or particular International Law.“

    It continues by saying that it can still anex a territory belonging to another state by the execution of a treaty of cession.

    Next time, if you are not going to read the book, at least try to read the whole page. And for your information, if one pointed a quote with the source where it took it, it does not necesarilly needs to quote it textually. thats why exist the link to the source, so you lazy can read it out.

    Pugol, quote:”All the BOTs listed as NSGT by the UN are self-governing democracies”. Thats what the colonial power says, not the UN that list them as NSGT.

    Jul 01st, 2022 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato. You are still at it.
    Give it a rest. You can try and twist every piece of information ever written but it wont change the situation. We are staying just as we are so get used to it.
    Now go and have a nice cuo of good old English tea. It will do wonders for that addled mind you possess.

    Jul 01st, 2022 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free, i dont know how can i twist by copying and paste textually a whole page of a book?. You may be right that i have an addled mind after reading your comments like that a Non Self-Governing Territory is actually a “Self-Governing Territory”!!!. Undercover perhaps?.

    This is a perfect moment for a tea or mate with scones or cake. Out of work, relaxed.Back at home. Good Weekend.

    Jul 01st, 2022 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Pugol-H

    Liberato
    ‘Self-governing democracies’ is what the territories concerned say they are.

    You do not have to believe ‘the colonial power’, they have their own elected assemblies and speak for themselves.

    Not that many people listen to what they have to say.

    As for the UN still listing them as Non Self Governing, as I understand it and I stand to be corrected, I do not speak for them, they consider it offensive to say the least.

    With C24 members like, the Russian Federation, Syrian Arab Republic, Iran (Islamic Republic of), Iraq, Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of), Cuba, Bolivia, Ecuador and Nicaragua, they are never going to de-colonise any of NSGT they are supposed to be guiding towards independence.

    And the territories know it, but they are forging their own paths anyway.

    Jul 01st, 2022 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Pugol-H “Self-governing democracies’ is what the territories concerned say they are”. So Cuba and Venezuela are democracies, the same with Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea?.
    So if Argentina declare that the whole Antartic is argentine becouse the people living there says they are argentine, the land becomes “argentine”?.

    quote:“they have their own elected assemblies and speak for themselves.”. Actually, the speaker of the “legislative” assembly Keith Biles was born in the colonial power, along with some members of the legislative assembly. Along with the executive and governor. Along with all the judiciary, teachers bankers, fire fighter, police chief, doctors, ingeneers, militaries, etc.

    Pugol, Britain dismembered Mauritious just before letting them independize and to this day. They keep the colony under the excuse of “protecting the world”. The c24 are not keeping territories that are under british colonialism in the NSGT list, just for political purposes. They keep the same stance as the General Assembly over all these years. I definitely prefer Cuba in the decolonization committe than the UK, the USA or Spain for instance.

    You mentioned before the options for decolonization. Did you read the pre requisites for those options established on res 1541?.

    Jul 02nd, 2022 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato. How can you decolonise a people that have already accepted they are no longer a colony but now a British self governing overseas territory.
    Once you accept that reality the rest will quickly fall into place.
    Not a single Argentine has ever answered the question why you insist on taking our land. Given the historical facts on both sides Argentina actually did not exist at the time you first made a claim.what is your real agenda. Answer that or do we already know the answers.
    Could it be that you want to exploit the entire region for yourselves. Could it be that you have a score to settle with Great Britain through your mother country Spain before you became independent.
    Could it be that Antarctica is in fact the ultimate prize.
    Either way we islanders are not the ones you are interested in.
    Could it be that Argentina has never been able to truly sustain itself and you are jealous of how succesful these islanders have been.
    I am old enough to remember the time when your claim was literally just the Falkland Islands. What possessed you to then include everything British in the region.
    Quite clearly South Georgia the south sandwich Islands or Antarctica do not actually sit on your so called continental shelf. So what was the motive.
    There is only one motive and that is anything Britain possesses in the south Stlantic must be stopped.
    Argentina is not at all interested in the islands as a country because they did not want to be here in 1982.
    It is time for you to stop chasing paper dreams and started asking your indoctrinators just what truly is this mythical claim really all about.
    If they wont tell you then you will know you have been deceived the whole of your life. Find that indisputable document of evidance that you ever owned this territory. While your at it find the legal proof you actually own all of Argentina.

    Jul 02nd, 2022 - 04:01 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Tænk

    TWIMC...

    The FICS (Falkland Islands Community School) pupil above says...:
    “”Not a single Argentine has ever answered the question why you insist on taking our land. Given the historical facts on both sides Argentina actually did not exist at the time you first made a claim. What is your real agenda? Answer that or do we already know the answers?
    Could it be that you want to exploit the entire region for yourselves? Could it be that you have a score to settle with Great Britain through your mother country Spain before you became independent? Could it be that Antarctica is in fact the ultimate prize?”

    CNBA (Colegio Nacional de Buenos Aires) pupil frantically raises his hand...
    -This single Argie has answered your questions as late as some lines above in this thread...
    I'll repeat them for the lazy ones :
    (“Fact 2...:
    - Our dispute has always been with Britain because of the historic aggresive, colonial attitude of the UK against Argentina...
    - Our current dispute with the UK is about the control and usufruct of some 20,000,000 million square km. in the South Atlantic and Antarctica..., including them British occupied Malvinas Islas...
    -Now..., if you happen to have one..., take a gooood look at your passport...
    - Our current dispute is indeed with the UK..., of which ya Kelpers are citizens of... Simples... ”)

    Capisce...?

    Jul 02nd, 2022 - 05:56 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Terence Hill

    “anexation of a territory of one state by another state implies a VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW”

    No it does not, that’s completely bogus like everything claimed by Argentina
    Page 214

    “Nevertheless, there occurs, according to international law, a territorial change,
    provided that the occupation, made with the intention of incorporating the occupied territory into the territory of the occupying State, assumes a permanent character, and that means that the legal order of the occupying State becomes efficacious for the territory in question. Usually one speaks of “occupation,” as a title of acquisition, only when the territory previously did not belong to another State. When, on the contrary, the territory belonged to another State, one speaks of “annexation,” having in mind the case of conquest, that is, the case of taking possession of enemy territory through military force in time of war. Traditional theory admits that annexation of conquered enemy territory, whether of the whole (subjugation) or of part, constitutes acquisition of the territory by the conquering State, if the conquest is firmly established. Taking possession through military force of the territory of another State against the latter’s will is possible, however, without any military resistance on the part of the victim. Provided that a unilateral act of force performed by one State against another is not considered to be war in itself (war being, according to traditional opinion, “a contention between two or more States through their armed forces”

    Jul 02nd, 2022 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free, quote:“How can you decolonise a people that have already accepted they are no longer a colony”. Thats a wrong assumption. You assume the form of colonialism where the colonial power subjugated a people that now claims they are no longer under subjugation. The UK have never kept under subjugation anyone on the islands becouse the people living there were and are their own people.
    The land of the British people are not located in South America, the South Atlantic or the antartic. The land of the British people is located in Britain.

    Terence Hill quote:“No it does not, that’s completely bogus like everything claimed by Argentina”. The phrase “anexation of a territory of ...” was not claimed by Argentina or by me. It was a quote of that writer Hans Kelsen you quoted at the begining. There is nothing more dumb than quote a fragment of a book that can be used against you, becouse it contradict exactly what you are claiming.

    Jul 02nd, 2022 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Falklands-Free

    Teank.
    So what you are admitting to is an unlawful act of aggression against the Country of Great Britain. Just because they gave your lot a bloidy nose over two hundred years ago when you was but nothing more than a colony of Spain. Is that it. The world has moved on in case you haven't noticed.
    Refusing to accept that a non spanish country owns territory in the south Atlantic is the actual root of the whole problem. If chile had in fact owned everything Britain owns in the region I bet Argentina would not be interested because the thinking is they would be Spanish.
    Bloody good job your lot didn't conquer North America. The whole North Atlantic region would be by now claimed by your lot.
    When will your outdated arrogance change towards your neighbours. Why even Argentina has maintained pressure on all south American countries to support them in this fabricated claim to remove those unwanted non spanish people from the region.
    You sure are a childish lot if this is truly the case.
    Oh and by the way the FICS was not even built when I was educated. That came along after your lot wrecked our town now city.
    You appear to support destruction of societies that are not descendants of the Spanish .
    I reckon Britain certainly hurt the Spanish pride all those centuries ago.
    Untill you finally deal with that and move on Argentina will never again prosper. The fate of your own existance is balanced on your ability to grow up.

    Jul 02nd, 2022 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “There is nothing more dumb than quote a fragment of a book that can be used against you, becouse it contradict exactly what you are claiming.”

    Exactly, which is why the following shows you as a liar.

    “Taking possession through military force of the territory of another State against the latter’s will is possible, however, without any military resistance on the part of the victim. Provided that a unilateral act of force performed by one State against another is not considered to be war in itself “

    Jul 02nd, 2022 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tænk

    I ask you again..., Mr. Falklands-Free...
    - Inform and educate yourself in order to combat & contain your invalidating siege mentality...

    A) Inform and educate yourself 'bout Who gave Who a bloody nose in 1806..., 1807 and 1845-50...

    B) Inform and educate yourself 'bout the fact that Chile does claim ~60% of the same Anctartic area as the British... Same area we Argies claim..., btw...
    Sooo..., you can bet Argentina is very interested because the tænking is them territories should be divided between Chile and us...

    C) Capisce...?

    Jul 02nd, 2022 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free, quote:“they gave your lot a bloidy nose over two hundred years ago when you was but nothing more than a colony of Spain. Is that it. The world has moved on in case you haven't noticed.”.
    Since two hundred years Ago, Argentina has changed a lot, as any other nation. Except in Malvinas, where colonialism is still the rule. Thats why the United Nations are working hard to erradicate colonialism in Malvinas and the rest of territories that are still under a colonial situation. The world has moved on as you said, but it is you who haven't noticed.

    Terence Hill, Possible, but illegal. Thats what he says.

    Jul 02nd, 2022 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Terence Hill

    “All Argentines without distinction feel with similar intensity a sense of dispossession regarding this part of our national territory. This has been so since 1833, when the United Kingdom invaded the islands expelling the Argentine population and authorities and implanting its own instead.”
    By Cecilia Nahón, Ambassador of Argentina to the United States of America Sep 4, 2015,

    If this is not complaint about annexation, then what is it?

    “annexation the action of annexing something, especially territory:”

    Jul 02nd, 2022 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Jo Bloggs

    Let's see if any Argies arrived today.

    Jul 02nd, 2022 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “Possible, but illegal. Thats what he says”

    No, he doesn’t otherwise you’d be able to show it.
    Thus, you are shown for liar you are. No proof, no truth.

    an·nex·a·tion ˌanekˈsāSH(ə)n
    noun annexation plural noun annexations
    the action of annexing something, especially territory.
    Synonym: seizure occupation invasion conquest takeover appropriation expropriation arrogation usurping
    Powered by Google Dictionary

    Jul 03rd, 2022 - 01:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tænk

    Still playing the Kelper Ilyia Kuryakin..., Mr. Bloggs...?
    :-)))

    Jul 03rd, 2022 - 06:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    Go to Miami and speak to some Cubans, see how many of them think Cuba is a democracy. Careful though they can be ‘touchy’ about what Cuba is like.

    Until recently even Russia recognised Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea as sovereign Ukrainian territory.

    Whereas The Falklands have never been Argentinian.

    However cession is possible but there are steps to follow, you have a free and fair referendum for a start.

    Of course in Crimea and Donbass self-determination ‘is not applicable to the Russian inhabitants because they do not form a people distinct to those of Russia’, according to you they are an ‘implanted population’.

    Where someone was born does not stop them for being elected once they have residency. Neither does it stop people from being employed by the FIG.

    Mauritius accepted money in a freely agreed deal, with their freely elected government. Now they try and renege, no surprise really. The territory will be handed over to Mauritius in about 15 years, by which time it will be mostly submerged so no 200nml EEZ limit as islands, only the 12nml territorial waters that rocks get.

    Everything some members of the C24 do is for political purposes, even you cannot be that naive as the think otherwise.

    Yes, ‘Chapter XI of the Charter embodies the concept of Non-Self Governing Territories in a dynamic state of evolution and progress towards a “full measure of self-government”.’

    No mention of colonisation by a hostile neighbour state though. Or any difference in the rights of the Falklanders to any other NSGT.

    We have more right to be in the S. Atlantic/Antarctic than you do to be in S. America, we did not steal that land from anybody.

    Jul 03rd, 2022 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “The efficacious anexation of a territory of one state by another state implies a VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW”

    “That annexation of conquered territory “confers a title only after a firmly established conquest,” without regard to the legal or illegal character of the conquest and to the length of time which expired after it. Traditional theory distinguishes between derivative and original modes of acquisition, according “as the title they give is derived from the title of a prior owner-State, or not.” Since the “ownership,” that is, the fact that a certain territory legally belongs to a certain State, is based only and exclusively on the permanent efficacy of the coercive order of that State for the territory in question and not on the “ownership” of the prior State, there is no derivative acquisition at all. The characteristic of cession is not — as usually assumed — that this mode of acquisition is derivative, but that it makes possible the acquisition of the territory of another State without violation of international law.”

    Jul 03rd, 2022 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jo Bloggs

    Think
    No need for spycraft. You just have to look out for bitter and twisted young men trying to act intimidating but only making fools of themselves; wearing 82 veteran apparel despite being at least 20 years too young.

    Chuckle chuckle

    Jul 03rd, 2022 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Pugol-H, “Go to Miami and speak to some Cubans...”. OHh right, lets change it for Turks and Caicos, the British virgin Islands, the Cayman or any other british colonies, where their main industry is to money laudering and if the response its the same with Cuba, Britain can easily accuse them of corruption, suspend their “constitution” and replace their government.

    Without the irony, Argentina did not choosed the members of the C24 which are now almost 30, some of them former british colonies and present members of Commonwealth. Nevertheless, dont trust the c24. Trust what the General Assembly have always said regarding Malvinas, regarding Diego Garcia, Gibraltar, etc. Read the resolutions of that Assembly regarding those territories.

    “Whereas The Falklands have never been Argentinian”. Malvinas has been spanish and later Argentines. You british wanted to settler there in 1765 when there was already a settlement, You came back in 1833 and for the first time landed on Soledad Island after the argentines. You recovered them militarilly in 1982 and for the first time and with military ships controlled its surrounding sea. hundred of people that lives in continental Argentina are descended from the argentines that lived previous the invasion of 1933.

    Mauritious was separated to get independence from the UK. And the inhabitants that was left on Diego Garcia suffered british brivery, the cut on its food, transport and a safe return home and your theorie that they will be back in 15 years, should be better apply by the uk your home.
    NON SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORY its exactly the opposite of SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORY. There is no semantic problem on it. When a TERRITORY is no longer a NSGT, it is delisted from the decolonization process and then yes, they become a SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORY. To be Decolonized they can be decolonized through the three options that defined by the UN as determinant for a SGT or not. But the people have to be culturally or ethnically different.

    Jul 03rd, 2022 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Tænk

    Mr. Bloggs...

    - Wonder why you go out looking for bitter and twisted young Argie men trying to act intimidating but only making fools of themselves; wearing 82 veteran apparel despite being at least 20 years too young...?

    Hmmmmmmmmm...

    Would you care to provide us with some more details...?

    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    Jul 03rd, 2022 - 11:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato you wrote Malvinas has been Spanish and later Argentines. You british wanted to settler there in 1765 when there was already a settlement, You came back in 1833 and for the first time landed on Soledad Island after the argentines. You recovered them militarilly in 1982 and for the first time and with military ships controlled its surrounding sea. hundred of people that lives in continental Argentina are descended from the argentines that lived previous the invasion of 1933.

    What a load of tripe. There were no Argentines born on the Islands. The only Argentines that were on the islands prior to removal was some Military who were sent to the islands to try and enforce an illegal claim. All the rest of the inhabitants who were not of Argentine origin but of other nationalities who apart from from 4 stayed and became a part of the Falkland Islands community we know today. I challenge you to produce legal birth and death even marriage certificates of any Supposed Argentine that were born on the Islands between 1828 and 1833. Complete documented proof is what is needed not assumptions as you are making.
    As for ownership of the islands the following documented recording reads “The English captain John Strong made the first recorded landing in the Falklands, in 1690, and named the sound between the two main islands after Viscount Falkland, a British naval official.”
    So clearly the British were in possession long before the French or Spanish ever landed to start their illegal settlements.
    You have been lied to by your government. Your Country has never had any legal claim only an assumption because Spain who illegally claims to have purchased the islands from the Illegal French who claims to have sold Port Louis to the Spanish. NOTE Port Louis not the Falkland Islands either because they did not even know that there were at least two main Islands and many smaller ones.
    So once again you have been rumbled with your myths.

    Jul 03rd, 2022 - 11:48 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Tænk

    Kelper Falklands-Free...

    You write above...:
    ” - There were no Argentines born on the Islands...
    - I challenge you to produce legal birth and death even marriage certificates of any Supposed Argentine that were born on the Islands between 1828 and 1833.

    I say...:
    - I ask you again..., again Mr. Falklands-Free...
    - Inform and educate yourself in order to combat & contain your invalidating siege mentality...
    - Would the historic info..., diligently gathered by Mr. David Everard Tatham (CMG)..., former Engrish Colonial Governor of then Falkland/Malvinas Islands (1992-96) and editor of “The Dictionary of Falklands Biography” suffice you...? :

    - ” (N. A.: Juan Francisco Esteban) Mestivier sailed for the Falklands on 23 September on the schooner Sarandi, with his wife (N. A.:​ Gertrudis Sánchez) in an advanced stage of pregnancy - shortly after they arrived on 6 October 1832 she gave birth...”
    https://www.falklandsbiographies.org/biographies/mestivier_joseph

    Capisce...?

    Jul 04th, 2022 - 08:00 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Jo Bloggs

    Think
    No need for spycraft. You just have to look out for bitter and twisted young men trying to act intimidating but only making fools of themselves; wearing 82 veteran apparel despite being at least 20 years too young.

    Chuckle chuckle

    Jul 04th, 2022 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Tænk

    Mr. Bloggs..., I'll repeat my above answer to your “duplicated” post...:
    (Btw..., not many people on that plane..., i hear... :-)))

    - Wonder why you go out looking for bitter and twisted young Argie men trying to act intimidating but only making fools of themselves; wearing 82 veteran apparel despite being at least 20 years too young...?
    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
    - Would you care to provide us with some more details...?

    Chuckle..., chuckle...

    Jul 04th, 2022 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free, Matilde Vernet y Sáez was born under an argentine government in Malvinas, under an argentine flag. “Your” eight generation “Falklanders” are post 1833.

    quote:“The English captain John Strong made the first recorded landing in the Falklands, in 1690, and named the sound between the two main islands after Viscount Falkland, a British naval official. So clearly the British were in possession long before the French or Spanish ever landed to start their illegal settlements.”
    That was not an act of possesion.

    quote2:“You have been lied to by your government. Your Country has never had any legal claim”. You have been lied to by your government. Your Country has never had any legal claim. Britain did not discovered the islands, was not the first to settle the islands and were not the first to claim the islands.

    Jul 04th, 2022 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Falklands-Free

    Liberato. Where do you get your mythical rubbish from. The islands were indeed first recorded discovered in 1592 by Captain John Davis. That is a documented fact. Captain John strong went on to say he claimed all this land for his majesty. Recorded as well. Now oh clever one produce the factual document of birth that your claim is based upon.
    Should be somewhere in your very well kept files on everything Falklands. Also the death certificate to establish the age of this person.
    Any offspring born on the islands to this person who you claim are many.
    Must have been one hell of a person to mature at 5 years old to start a family .that is the period of Argentine attempted occupation 1828 to 1833. Just five years. Think you will find the one likely born on the islands was not of Argentine origin either.
    Further you cannot make a claim by saying a person was born on the land is the rightful owner. No Argentine was born in Argentina when they invaded Patagonia. If that was the case your argument of every falkland islander being implanted even though they have 9 generations born kills your single birth of what was also an implanted person.
    This argument works both ways remember that.
    Try another tactic because it entertains us.

    Jul 04th, 2022 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Jo Bloggs

    Poor old Think.

    I don’t go out especially to find those bitter and twisted young men but they are pretty hard to miss.

    I agree that there weren’t many on the flight but the numbers for mid-winter and post-Liberation Day were as I would’ve expected. It will pick up. There’s no tangible reason to believe otherwise.

    Are you coming over, Think? Or are you already tucked away in said B&B? You know, the one you know so we’ll you don’t even know the owner’s name.

    Silly old fool.

    Chuckle chuckle

    Jul 04th, 2022 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Liberato

    Falklands-Free There was no british sighting of the Islands in 1592, nor any charting. John Davies journey was a disaster as described here: https://www.britishempire.co.uk/maproom/falkland/johndavies.htm and gave vague description of location. He wanted to save pride from the hell and heard of Sebald de Weert news of his journey.
    John Strong did not claimed a thing. And it is also described in the same british source britishempire.co.uk/maproom/falkland/johnstrong.htm.

    quote: “Should be somewhere in your very well kept files on everything Falklands. Also the death certificate to establish the age of this person.”. I know i had it with me this morning, in my pocket. But i will search it for you. Death Cetificate? Her ID? What else do you need?.
    It is all on the net
    Malvina Vernet Genealogy: https://www.britishempire.co.uk/maproom/falkland/johndavies.htm
    Certificate of the first marriadge made in Malvinas:
    twitter.com/agnargentina/status/1049675320973033472
    currency of Malvinas:
    es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peso_de_las_Islas_Malvinas

    You said:“Further you cannot make a claim by saying a person was born on the land is the rightful owner”.
    I didnt. I was just responding to a fool with bad memory that said:
    “What a load of tripe. There were no Argentines born on the Islands. The only Argentines that were on the islands prior to removal was some Military who were sent to the islands to try and enforce an illegal claim”.
    Do you know who is that fool?.

    Jul 04th, 2022 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Judge Jose

    Libby, just stop, you are embarrassing yourself, you can deny it all you want, but the FACT is and with historical records to prove it, Britain was the first country to record and claim the islands, it must hurt you so bad that all your Argentine propaganda has been debunked over and over again, you are wasting your life on a myth and a fantasy, a court case at the ICJ would prove once and for all that your bonkers claim is ridiculous and the historical records provided by Britain would confirm that, now go and have a cup of coffee and a nap, your brain cells need regenerating,

    Jul 04th, 2022 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Liberato

    Judge Jose quite the opposite. It is you trying to convince others that Malvinas are not what the UK says they are!!!. The same happens regarding Diego Garcia, Turks and Caicos and the rest of the money laundering territories under british colonialism.
    NON SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORY = NON SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORY. Thats what you should start learning and begin with convincing the UN, instead of trying to convince me or others in this webpage.
    The history of the colony and its political status, does not depends on what the colonial power defines it.

    Jul 05th, 2022 - 01:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tænk

    Mr. Jo Bloggs...

    You say...:
    - “I don’t go out especially to find those bitter and twisted young men but they are pretty hard to miss.”

    I say...:
    - Right...
    - “As far as I'm concerned..., that's the end of this matter...”
    - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=REpNTi-9oRQ
    - (Pls. give me regards to Carlos & Eduardo ;-)

    Jul 05th, 2022 - 05:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Judge Jose

    Libby, you are obsessed with the word colony, go to the ICJ with your so called evidence and watch your fantasy claim get destroyed,

    Jul 05th, 2022 - 06:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Judge Jose it is not an obsession. It is reality you choose to ignore in Malvinas along with the other 9 territories under british colonialism. https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en

    Jul 05th, 2022 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “It is reality you choose to ignore in Malvinas”

    Talking about ignoring reality.

    “The United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization has stated that in the process of decolonization there is no alternative to the colonizer but to allow a process of self-determination.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decolonization

    As for the referendum Ii was tacitly recognized by Argentina, otherwise she would have applied to the ICJ to have it estopped. Nor is the UNGA invested with any authority to prevent the exercise of a lawful Charter right.

    With the completion of the Referendum ...the Islands are now “decolonized”.

    ”UN Charter; DECLARATION REGARDING NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES;
    Article 73; Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for ..peoples have not yet attained .. self-government recognize the principle ..b. to develop self-government, ...”

    October 16th,1975
    The ICJ presents its advisory opinion on two questions concerning Western Sahara; “The validity of the principle of self-determination, defined as the need to pay regard to the freely expressed will of peoples, ...” The Court also states; “The Charter of the United Nations, in Article 1, paragraph 2, indicates, as one of the purposes of the United Nations: “To develop friendly relations among nations based on ...the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples . .” This purpose is further developed in Articles 55 and 56 of the Charter. ...the subsequent development of international law in regard to non-self-governing territories, as enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, made the principle of self-determination applicable to all of them”
    Judge Dillard, .. adds; “ .. it is for the people to determine the destiny of the territory and not the territory the destiny of the people.”

    Jul 05th, 2022 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Judge Jose

    Libby, it is an obsession. every post is colony this colony that, the so called decolonization committee is a toothless and irrelevant , meanwhile the islands continue to prosper, ICJ????

    Jul 05th, 2022 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Falklands-Free

    These Argentine Trolls spew out the same boring song. Starting to get boring. Wish they could come up with something more refreshing and relevant. Oh well that's the price of indoctrination I guess.

    Jul 05th, 2022 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Terence Hill, quote1: ““The United Nations Special Committee on Decolonization has stated that in the process of decolonization there is no alternative to the colonizer but...” That is your interpretation of the UN and yet, the islands remains in the colony list.

    quote2:“As for the referendum Ii was tacitly recognized by Argentina, otherwise she would have applied to the ICJ to have it estopped. ...”. That was again your interpretation. That charade of “referendum” was not supported nor recognized by Argentina or the UN:

    quote3:“With the completion of the Referendum ...the Islands are now “decolonized”.”.That is, again, only your interpretation. The islands remains in the process of decolonization in the UN decol... process

    Jul 05th, 2022 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Terence Hill

    “That is your interpretation of the UN”

    No, that is what the committee has stated, as I have shown.

    “The referendum Ii was tacitly recognized by Argentina. That was again your interpretation.
    No that is accepted legal consequence of her silence, is acquiescence.

    “.. Thus, he who keeps silent is assumed to consent; silence gives consent. In law, the silence of a party implies his consent…... Thus, who keeps silent consents; silence means consent; silent consent is same as expressed consent; consent by conduct is as good as expressed consent. This is an implied term in law....”
    SOMA'S DICTIONARY OF LATIN QUOTATIONS MAXIMS AND PHRASES
    A Compendium Of Latin Thought And Rhetorical Instruments For The Speaker Author And Legal Practitioner

    With the completion of the Referendum ...the Islands are now “decolonized”.”.That is, again, only your interpretation.

    No, it’s the UN’s.

    ”The decolonization efforts of the United Nations derive from the principle of “equal rights and self-determination of peoples” as stipulated in Article 1 (2) of the Charter of the United Nations, as well as from three specific chapters in the Charter which are devoted to the interests of dependent peoples. The Charter established, in its Chapter XI (“Declaration regarding Non-Self-Governing Territories”, Articles 73 and 74), the principles that continue to guide the decolonization efforts of the United Nations. The Charter also established the International Trusteeship System in Chapter XII (Articles 75-85) and the Trusteeship Council in Chapter XIII (Articles 86-91) to monitor the Trust Territories.

    The Charter binds administering Powers, namely ”Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for the administration of territories whose peoples have not yet attained a full measure of self-government…”
    https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/about

    Jul 05th, 2022 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    Liberato
    We have been through all this many times before, remember?

    ‘”He wanted to save pride from the hell and heard of Sebald de Weert news”.

    Now you are just making things up!!!

    John Davies was there (allegedly) in 1592 and returned to Europe in June 1593. Sebalt de Weert didn’t leave Europe until June 1598, Davies could not have known what Sebalt de Weert’s news was going to be when he got back in July 1600.’

    The British have the prior claim, their history in the region is older than anyone else’s.

    Once again it’s in Wrongapedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_dispute

    ‘Sovereignty over the Falkland Islands (Spanish: Islas Malvinas) is disputed by Argentina and the United Kingdom. The British claim to sovereignty dates from 1690, when they made the first recorded landing on the islands,[1]’

    So, you cannot have Argentinian Governors or settlements on what was already long established British Territory, not legitimately anyway.

    The ‘political status’ of the BOTs has been decided by the inhabitants of the BOTs. With no outside interference, you can ask them yourself.

    With the current members of the C24, they are never going to de-colonise any of the territories on their list and the territories know it, but they are forging their own paths anyway.

    And in the S. Atlantic, Argentina is a bystander and not involved at all, which I suspect is what really hurts.

    No Malvinas, no bi-continental country of Argentina.

    Jul 05th, 2022 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Terence Hill
    “No, that is what the committee has stated, as I have shown”. You showed a link to wikipedia, that used as a source the res 1514 of the UN. Have you read res 1514?.

    For everything, we will always have two views and different interpretations. But what we cant have is different internpretation to resolutions made specifically to the question of the “Malvinas/Falklands Islands”.
    You said and i quote :“With the completion of the Referendum ...the Islands are now “decolonized”.”. Nope, Thats your interpretation. The islands today remains on the list of NSGT in the process of decolonization. This is a reality for the c24 and for the General Assembly who keeps the topic on its provisional agenda permanently.

    You says that the islands are SELF-GOVERNING and the UN still consider the islands a NON SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORY.

    You can keep your thoughts and expose your views. The same with the UK organizing as much as referendums as they please, asking a british people of almost 100% of british origins if they wants to be british or something else. Reality is that the UK does not define whether exist colonialism or not. Neighter Argentina. But the UN can indeed.

    Pugol, Davis was accused of desertion and held in disgrace. Unacknowledged, his journal remained unpublished until way after the return of Mr Sebalt de Weert.

    Thanks for mention and acknowledge the sovereignty dispute and when you said: “The British claim to sovereignty dates from 1690 when they made the first recorded landing on the islands,[1]’” A recording landing is not a claim of sovereignty. Did he claimed the islands?. Did he also settled them?. A claim of sovereignty is when they settled them after the French and claimed them for king George. With no success of course to a place already claimed and settled.

    “With the current members of the C24...”. Fine, keep the colonial status. But have the, “courage” to accept that for whatever reason the UN gives Malvinas that definition of NSGT.

    Jul 05th, 2022 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “The islands today remains on the list of NSGT in the process of decolonization.”

    They certainly are, and show a sub, sub, sub-committee acting in ultra vires of their madidate. Moreover, they are without a thread of authority under international law. Whereas, the UK and Islanders have complied completely with all their all legal requirements, under articles 73 and 74 of the UN Charter.

    So, Argentina can continue to snivel and achieve absolutely nothing, because the colour of right is not, and never was on their side.

    Jul 06th, 2022 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Liberato

    Terence Hill, “They certainly are, and show a sub, sub, sub-committee acting in ultra vires of their madidate....”. Like i said, it is your interpretation on the matter. Regardless of what you think or why do you think it happens, The islands are still in the process of decolonization as you said, and are considered to be a territory under a colonial situation which sovereignty, is under dispute between the UK and Argentina.
    So until they've become a different thing in the eyes of the United Nations. Stop pretending to be treated as a new nation. Continue with the status quo, the referendums, anything you like. But dont pretend Argentina to treat you anything different than the United Nations.
    .

    Jul 06th, 2022 - 01:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “According to General Assembly resolution 1541 (XV) of 1960 entitled “Principles which should guide Members in determining whether or not an obligation exists to transmit the information called for under Article 73 e of the Charter”, a Non-Self-Governing Territory can be said to have reached a full measure of self-government by:

    • Emergence as a sovereign independent State;
    • Free association with an independent State;
    • Integration with an independent State.

    In addition, by the “Declaration on Principles of International law concerning Friendly Relations and Cooperation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations”, as approved by the General Assembly by its resolution 2625 (XXV) of 1970, the General Assembly solemnly proclaimed the principles of international law concerning friendly relations and cooperation among States, including the principle of “equal rights and self-determination of peoples”. In that principle, it is stated that the “establishment of a sovereign and independent State, the free association or integration with an independent State or the emergence into any other political status freely determined by a people constitute modes of implementing the right of self-determination by that people”.
    https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/about

    Jul 06th, 2022 - 01:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    Liberato
    ‘Davis was accused of desertion and held in disgrace. Unacknowledged’, really!!! And the evidence for this???

    Once again you are just making things up and hoping nobody will notice.

    Once again I refer you to Wrongapedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Davis_(explorer)

    ‘He discovered the Falkland Islands in August 1592’, ‘From 1596 to 1597 Davis sailed with Sir Walter Raleigh to Cádiz and the Azores as master of Raleigh's ship’, ‘from 1598 to 1600 he accompanied a Dutch expedition to the East Indies as pilot’, etc. Etc.

    The British found the Islands in 1592, landed on and claimed them in 1690, then took possession of them in 1765.

    The British have the prior claim.

    Same with the rest of the S. Atlantic/Antarctic, British claims are very old, Argentinian claims are very new.

    The C24 are never going to de-colonise any of the territories on their list, but life goes on.

    Jul 06th, 2022 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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