MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Peru made available “Mirage aircraft, missiles and pilots” in Falklands 82 conflict
Argentine president Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner thanked Peru for the military support and having made available aircraft, missiles and pilots in the conflict with Britain over the Falkland Islands back in 1982. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesAt any opportunity Argentina pedals is distorted view of both history and international law. Indeed, if it wasn't for the continued beligerence of Argentina, the people of the Falkland Islands may long ago have opted for independence.
Mar 24th, 2010 - 08:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Britian is not ashamed because it has only the wishes of the islanders at heart, and knows full well the dire consequences for their way of life should Argentina manage to 'colonise' the islands for themselves. As a result the British are proud. Proud of their support for the islanders, and proud of the ability to protect those in need.
Kirchner may indeed be grateful for the support Argentina received in 1982 ....... for all the good it did them !
Someone needs to explain the meaning of litigation to the Argentine foreign minister. As any lawyer knows, a matter 'in litigation' is a dispute that is subject to court proceedings. All of us on this site, even our deluded Argentine friends, know that Argentina has never referred its 'claim' to the International Court of Justice and the claim is not therefore subject to litigation. Yet another half-truth about the Falklands from the Argentine political class. Thanking the Peruvians for military support during the '82 conflict is simply poor taste - still, i have the utmost admiration for the Falkland islanders and their willingness on humanitarian grounds to continue to allow relatives of the Argentine dead to visit graves of the fallen on the islands despite of the continued policy of oppression by Argentina. No doubt the islanders will allow these visits to continue but you won't find any Argentines thanking the islanders on this site.
Mar 24th, 2010 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The last colonial enclave that subsists in our continent” Ignoring for the moment the stupidity of her comment - what about the French territory in the continent. So - the silly President of Argentina wants to remove colonialism in the Falklands - where it doesn't exist - by introducing colonialism to the Falklands - where it would exist if Argentina had its way.
Mar 24th, 2010 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why is she saying thanks for the military help? They still lost
Mar 24th, 2010 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.......“No doubt the islanders will allow these visits to continue but you won't find any Argentines thanking the islanders on this site.”........
Mar 24th, 2010 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- Thank to the squatters? I don't think so.
.......“Why is she saying thanks for the military help? They still lost”........
- Are you some kind of retard or something? You always have to thank the help.
Malvinas, we can wait for you, you are just there, time is on our side.
British pirates, get the f*ck out of here.
Jorge: you’re clearly the blog imbecile! Congratulations.
Mar 24th, 2010 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You still have not recognised the Charter of UN section from our last exchange! Is this because you don’t want to accept its existence (or terms)?
Yes Hoytred, there are many, many thousands of people who in private, do aknowledge and and are thankful that the conflict of '82 meant the end of junta militar. Plastic face is just stirring up latin emotions because she hasnt achieved anything in her term of office and, this is the last straw before election time.
Mar 24th, 2010 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Reading the comments made by our mutual friend Jorge brings a smile to my face and recollections of Fawlty towers you know, the Emanuel guy...
Mar 24th, 2010 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.........“Jorge: you’re clearly the blog imbecile! Congratulations.”.........
Mar 24th, 2010 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- Are you from the british retards club too, idiot woman??????
..........”You still have not recognised the Charter of UN section from our last exchange! Is this because you don’t want to accept its existence (or terms)?“........
- I told you what I think in the other article.
Those are our islands. You put that ”people” there, you take them away!!!!!
“You put that ”people” there, you take them away!!!!!”
Mar 24th, 2010 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0-This is all very interesting Jorge:
first you state, they are entitled to live there, but without Sovereignty? Then they are your Borthers, then they are mutually Opressed by the British, then they become Squatters, now they are no longer entitled to live there!
I must say Jorge, I have never seen somebody change their opinion so many times could you please decide upon which one to use? :)
On that note: Have you ever wondered what language you speak and why you don't quite fit in with the indigenous? Yes thats right European!
I wonder who put you there?
Mapuche Immigration control shall be sending your eviction papers shortly for 500 years of Squatting on their land!
As they say er umm AJAJAJAAJ parrots son inglesa, Malvinas on Peruvian, Los MArbles will be ours yesterday, today and tommorrow-or one of those collectively repetative phrases.
Well said, 10 Rhaurie-Craughwell!
Mar 24th, 2010 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How many times do I have to keep saying that Argentina is itself a shameful legacy of Conquistador colonialism. The first time Argentina had a presence of any kind on the Falkland Islands their military commandant Mestivier was murdered. The British turned up to sort the matter out and - without any bloodshed - repatriated his murderers to Buenos Aires where they were punished according to law. Then they went away for a year. When they came back they found they couldn't leave the place alone without someone getting murdered in the meantime. The second time around it was five employees of Louis Vernet.
By the way, if Peru was involved in the Falklands war, then both Argentina and Peru owe war reparations to the United Kingdom.
Mar 24th, 2010 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well done Jorge - as ever all you ever do is insult. If you had a brain you would be dangerous. To be fair to Argentina - I doubt that he is representative of the best they can offer.;-)
Mar 24th, 2010 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jorge wrote “Those are our islands. You put that ”people” there, you take them away!!!!!”
Mar 24th, 2010 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are NOT your islands. Get back to Europe jorge.
.........”I must say Jorge, I have never seen somebody change their opinion so many times could you please decide upon which one to use? :)“.........
Mar 25th, 2010 - 03:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0- I don't change my opinion several times
- Wich one to use???? Do whatever you want. None of my business!
.........”On that note: Have you ever wondered what language you speak and why you don't quite fit in with the indigenous? Yes thats right European!
I wonder who put you there?”...........
- The majority of us are mixed here. How could you know I'm descendent from eropeans?!?!
My mother was born in Chiloé island (Chile) and my father in Apipé Grande island (Argentina almost Paraguay). Many mapuches around my mother and many guaranies around my father. I'm not a blue-eyed person at all.
What happens in Malvinas is very different, a small closed society living there for more than 150 years without trace of natural South American inmigration, almost all of them white and blue-eyed people. They were strongly kept british throughout racism typical from something we call...............mmmmmmmmmm..... ah yes A COLONY!!!!!!!!!
Stop talking crap!!!!!
..........“As they say er umm AJAJAJAAJ parrots son inglesa, Malvinas on Peruvian, Los MArbles will be ours yesterday, today and tommorrow-or one of those collectively repetative phrases.”...........
- Te pegó bien el porro eh!!!!
..........“By the way, if Peru was involved in the Falklands war, then both Argentina and Peru owe war reparations to the United Kingdom.”..........
Mar 25th, 2010 - 03:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0- LOL. Now I'm going to sleep with such a laughter!
............“Well done Jorge - as ever all you ever do is insult.”........
- Did I insult you today Christine?!?!
........“If you had a brain you would be dangerous.”........
- Is people with a brain dangerous for you??? How do you know I don't have a brain???
..........”To be fair to Argentina - I doubt that he is representative of the best they can offer.;-)“...........
- I think you are angry at me because of what I told Paddy! Am I right?
Te la estás comiendo atorrantín???? Tell me Susan!!!
.........”They are NOT your islands. Get back to Europe jorge.”.........
- Why do you say that Jennifer?!?!
Natural South American immigration?
Mar 25th, 2010 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0First of all pray tell what is natural about immigration, secondly your ancestors weren't immigrants they were colonists, seizing land from the native people. Thirdly the ethnogenesis of the Falkland Islands is not all blue-eyed Europeans, there is a significant component from South American Gauchos, Vernet's original settlers and multiple other nationalities. Fourthly, your comments are the racist ones. Fifthly people mock you because you're incapable of a cogent or reasoned argument and language is not the barrier, its your ignorant, bigoted and racist attitude.
Lets hope Peru remembers who shafted them after helping Argentine in '82. got to wonder why they'd help a corrupt military regime.
“I don't change my opinion several times”
Mar 25th, 2010 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0-Don’t lie! You have! Come on what are the Islanders then? Are they A) Squatters, B) Your mutually oppressed Bretheren? C) Colonists, D)perfectly entitled to live there but without British Sovereignty E) Not entitled to live there at all? Which one Jorge, I’ve made it easier for you.
“The majority of us are mixed here. How could you know I'm descendent from eropeans?!?!
My mother was born in Chiloé island (Chile) and my father in Apipé Grande island (Argentina almost Paraguay). Many mapuches around my mother and many guaranies around my father. I'm not a blue-eyed person at all”
-thank you for proving what I said, your descended from Europeans! and you don’t need to be Blue eyed to be European you Nonce, Scandanavian and Germanic maybe, still trying to peddle “we are mixed race” crap again, everyone knows that argument was conocted to try and justify Argentina being the most European country in South America!
“What happens in Malvinas is very different, a small closed society living there for more than 150 years without trace of natural South American inmigration, almost all of them white and blue-eyed people. They were strongly kept british throughout racism typical from something we call A COLONY!!!!!!!!!”
-You really do talk nonsense: A small closed society? what nonsense you on about? It’s a very open but small society, but extremely diverse: http://www.falklands.gov.fk//documents/Census%20Report%202006.pdf
Oh dear 161 people of Chilean origin, how odd? I thought you said no natural immigration occurred from South America, 29 from Argentina? I count people who orginated from 63 different countries? Hardly the racist society you claim it to be so? And since when did Europeans all have to be blue eyed? The British certainly are the least Blue eyed people on the planet, if borthered to find out the facts.
But Lets talk racism then shall we?
http://www.falklands.gov.fk//documents/Census%20Report%202006.pdf
http://www.falklands.gov.fk//documents/Census%20Report%202006.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKzJIifjw10
Mar 25th, 2010 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKzJIifjw10
I agree it makes for some uncomfortable watching?
Your still a colony then by your above logic, a closed society that didn’t allow any natural immigration from indigenous societies into the fabric of the Bastardised European State that is Argentina, lived for 500 years without any trace of Indigenous culture or heritage, almost all of them white skinned, brown haired brown eyed people, strongly kept a European identity through excluding the less desirable elements of Argentine society through a policy of white European immigration only in the 1860’s-1930’s……oh yes errm ahem something racialist which in your logic is called a COLONY!
And so concludes another ground breaking piece from the great academic Jorge!
Cue inevitable idiocy!
..........“By the way, if Peru was involved in the Falklands war, then both Argentina and Peru owe war reparations to the United Kingdom.”..........
Mar 25th, 2010 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0-You started the war, it's logical, you pay for the damage something normal countries have done for centuries, Argentina has had a deafening silence when asked who started the war?
-How do you know I don't have a brain???
The evidence so far speaks for itself Jorge
- Why do you say that Jennifer?!?!
Well it's the truth ain't it? They aren't your islands and you say get back to europe, so you should set an example and do the same?
http://www.anth.ubc.ca/fileadmin/user_upload/anso/Faculty_PDFs/Gordillo/Gordillo_and_Hirsch_2003.pdf
Mar 25th, 2010 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Also makes for uncomfortable reading but will shortly be dismissed as irrelevant for not being .... Argentine.
....but do note where the co-author comes from....
Mar 25th, 2010 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0..........“Fifthly people mock you because you're incapable of a cogent or reasoned argument and language is not the barrier, its your ignorant, bigoted and racist attitude.”.........
Mar 25th, 2010 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- STFU! You are the racist who banned argentine citizens to enter in to their own land for almost 20 whitout any fundament. FASCIST!!!!
........“Lets hope Peru remembers who shafted them after helping Argentine in '82. got to wonder why they'd help a corrupt military regime.”.........
- Don't worry, 30 years later, people in Latin America knows very well who is friend and who is not! If you have any doubt, UK is not!
...........”-Don’t lie! You have! Come on what are the Islanders then? Are they A) Squatters, B) Your mutually oppressed Bretheren? C) Colonists, D)perfectly entitled to live there but without British Sovereignty E) Not entitled to live there at all? Which one Jorge, I’ve made it easier for you.”........
- They are all of that and they have the right to live there too (under our juridiccion of course)!
.........“-thank you for proving what I said, your descended from Europeans! and you don’t need to be Blue eyed to be European you Nonce, Scandanavian and Germanic maybe, still trying to peddle “we are mixed race” crap again, everyone knows that argument was conocted to try and justify Argentina being the most European country in South America!”.....
- The blue-eyed thing was just a detail and you don't know Argentina at all. You ignorant think that knowing B.A. is knowing Argentina and that's incorrect. We are an extensive country. I can debate with such ignorant. F*ck it!
..........“Oh dear 161 people of Chilean origin, how odd? I thought you said no natural immigration occurred from South America, 29 from Argentina? I count people who orginated from 63 different countries? Hardly the racist society you claim it to be so? And since when did Europeans all have to be blue eyed? The British certainly are the least Blue eyed people on the planet, if borthered to find out the facts.”...........
Mar 25th, 2010 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- Many of those argentineans living there before 1982 and many of those chileans living there after 1982. Any sign of racism against Argentina?!?!?!
Naked racism!
..........“Your still a colony then by your above logic, a closed society that didn’t allow any natural immigration from indigenous societies into the fabric of the Bastardised European State that is Argentina, lived for 500 years without any trace of Indigenous culture or heritage, almost all of them white skinned, brown haired brown eyed people, strongly kept a European identity through excluding the less desirable elements of Argentine society through a policy of white European immigration only in the 1860’s-1930’s……oh yes errm ahem something racialist which in your logic is called a COLONY! ”........
- If you ever come to Argentina, forget about B.A., visit Jujuy, Salta, Chaco, Santiago del Estero, Catamarca, etc and you'll see, IGNORANT!!!!
..........“And so concludes another ground breaking piece from the great academic Jorge!
Cue inevitable idiocy!”........
- Whatever asshole! You are an ignorant que toca de oído and who believes to know everything throughout Wikipedia.
Bye Retard!
The fact that Argentines were banned may have something to do with your ill-conceived invasion of their home and the overtly hostile foreign policy you persist with. That isn't racism, your illogical rants however are.
Mar 25th, 2010 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ever care to think what a superb advert for Argentina you are.
Do you mean “bye retard” in the past sense, since you come back all the time?
Mar 26th, 2010 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“STFU! You are the racist who banned argentine citizens to enter in to their own land for almost 20 whitout any fundament. FASCIST!!!!”
Do you reckon it may have something to do with 1982? Invasion, Opression??
“They are all of that and they have the right to live there too (under our juridiccion of course)!”
-Well first cognitive reply from you ever?
“The blue-eyed thing was just a detail and you don't know Argentina at all. You ignorant think that knowing B.A. is knowing Argentina and that's incorrect. We are an extensive country. I can debate with such ignorant. F*ck it!”
-So An extensive Bastardised European country then! So many of you buggers have dual passports to EU countries seems like you have identity issues?
- Many of those argentineans living there before 1982 and many of those chileans living there after 1982. Any sign of racism against Argentina?!?!?!
Naked racism!
“If you ever come to Argentina, forget about B.A., visit Jujuy, Salta, Chaco, Santiago del Estero, Catamarca, etc and you'll see, IGNORANT!!!!”
-Have been you still look decidedly European, it doesn’t matter how far I went from BA North, South, East, West I for many days I reckoned that I had been tricked by the airline the place was so remarkably...well European, never once did I see any Indigenous communities or signs of their culture, almost as If Argentina was keeping it hidden? Compare that to Mexico, Bolivia, New Zealand and parts of Australia all have embraced their indigenous culture, especially New Zealand were Mauri is Equal to England and taught in Schools...Such forward thinking could only come from British descedents.
“Whatever asshole! You are an ignorant que toca de oído and who believes to know everything throughout Wikipedia”
-As is said cue inevitable idiocy!
........“The fact that Argentines were banned may have something to do with your ill-conceived invasion of their home and the overtly hostile foreign policy you persist with. That isn't racism, your illogical rants however are.”........
Mar 27th, 2010 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- Are argentine citizens a militar thread to islanders??? Of course not! They don't take weapons in their flights.
Were german citizens banned from enetering UK during 20 years after WWII???? Not!!!
Your logic is totally ridiculous and you resort to it since you try to defend the undefendable.
So, you practise racism and you are a racist!!!!! One of the catholic church!
.......““If you ever come to Argentina, forget about B.A., visit Jujuy, Salta, Chaco, Santiago del Estero, Catamarca, etc and you'll see, IGNORANT!!!!”
Mar 27th, 2010 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0-Have been you still look decidedly European, it doesn’t matter how far I went from BA North, South, East, West I for many days I reckoned that I had been tricked by the airline the place was so remarkably...well European, never once did I see any Indigenous communities or signs of their culture, almost as If Argentina was keeping it hidden?”.......
- Bullshit!!!. If you had been here you wouldn't say so.
.........“Compare that to Mexico, Bolivia, New Zealand and parts of Australia all have embraced their indigenous culture, especially New Zealand were Mauri is Equal to England and taught in Schools...Such forward thinking could only come from British descedents.”.......
- Such forward thinking could only come from British descedents.????
That's a racist statement!
........“-As is said cue inevitable idiocy!”....
- Do not describe yourself. I realize what kind of “person” you are.
Jorge wrote “- STFU! You are the racist who banned argentine citizens to enter in to their own land for almost 20 whitout any fundament. FASCIST!!!! ”
Mar 28th, 2010 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentines were not banned by either the UK nor the FIG from entering their own land.
The Falkland Islands should annex Argentina. That would solve the supposed problem of colonialism and Argentina would be much better governed as a result.
Mar 28th, 2010 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.........“Argentines were not banned by either the UK nor the FIG from entering their own land.”........
Mar 29th, 2010 - 05:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0- You live in a bottle!
........“The Falkland Islands should annex Argentina. That would solve the supposed problem of colonialism and Argentina would be much better governed as a result.”.........
- Que pelotudo!
We still had diplomatic relations with the Germans, Argentina didn't declare a formal end to hostilities for nearly 20 years, nor did they resume diplomatic relations. The families of the dead were still allowed to visit, though thanks to Argentine restrictions had to fly via the UK.
Mar 29th, 2010 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please feel free to continue with the bigoted ranting.
- Are argentine citizens a militar thread to islanders??? Of course not! They don't take weapons in their flights.
Mar 29th, 2010 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Were german citizens banned from enetering UK during 20 years after WWII???? Not!!!
Your logic is totally ridiculous and you resort to it since you try to defend the undefendable.
Germany were not claiming sovereignty of our home 20 years after the second world war. While Argentina are still laying claim to sovereignty of the Islanders home 20+ years after the Falklands war so I would say the logic is sound enough.
........“We still had diplomatic relations with the Germans, Argentina didn't declare a formal end to hostilities for nearly 20 years, nor did they resume diplomatic relations. The families of the dead were still allowed to visit, though thanks to Argentine restrictions had to fly via the UK.”.........
Mar 29th, 2010 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- You didn't answer. Were argentine citizens living in a democracy since 1983 a threat to islanders???
.........“Please feel free to continue with the bigoted ranting.”.........
- The same I say to you, fascist from the catholic church!
.....“Germany were not claiming sovereignty of our home 20 years after the second world war. While Argentina are still laying claim to sovereignty of the Islanders home 20+ years after the Falklands war so I would say the logic is sound enough.”........
- Again, did common argentine citizens represent a threat to islanders???
........“Argentina are still laying claim to sovereignty of the Islanders home 20+ years after the Falklands war”........
- We will claim them for ever!
“Were argentine citizens living in a democracy since 1983 a threat to islanders??? Again, did common argentine citizens represent a threat to islanders???”
Mar 29th, 2010 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Followed by:
“We will claim them [the Falklands] for ever!”
Another breathtaking display of joined-up thinking by Jorgebobo.
Q. Did a “democratic” Argentina continue to make threats against the Falkland Islands?
Mar 29th, 2010 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A. Yes.
Q. Does a “democratic” Argentina continue to make threats?
A. Yes.
Q. Does a “democratic” Argentine denounce acts of terrorism?
A. No. It awards the perpetrators a pension.
The defence rests milord.
“Bullshit!!!. If you had been here you wouldn't say so”
Mar 29th, 2010 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0-well stopping short of posting you my passport with the stamped page.....you have me there, but my opinion stands, whereas in other Latin American countries indigenous culture is every where to be found, in the people, langauge, relics, culture, yours isn't, it's wholly absent,
“That's a racist statement!”
please Jorge-where is the racism? Perhaps I should explain in more simple terms: I said British people in New Zealand learnt the errors of their ways and rather than steam roller their mutual culture into submission and assimilation they embraced it, something British people are quite good at, and somthing perhaps Argentina should take a lesson or two from? a few signs in the indigenous language would be nice? A few towns and Place names to? Is this why the Argentine delegation went dead silent in the general assembly 2007 when the delegate from Gibraltar made a dig at the very un-indigenous appearence of the delegate from Argentina lamblasting the Falklands, a classic moment If I must say, tiny Gibraltar blew the wind right out his sails!!
“Do not describe yourself. I realize what kind of “person” you are”
-An intellectualy stimulating individual who keeps you on your toes and actually makes you think? cheers Jorge! I knew my re-education would get to you someday :)
Jorge, struggling to come up with a coherent response, wrote “- You live in a bottle!”
Mar 30th, 2010 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just checked - nope. Don't live in a bottle. See how you are wrong on everything.
Well, well, well I am European living in Argentina so I think I can go freely to the Malvinas/Falklands to live there. And I would like to bring there some 3000 fellows with me (Europeans of course living in Argentina) to establish and then express our right of self-determination to be part of Argentina.
Mar 30th, 2010 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can you tell me fellows where can we sing up for ours application form to go to the Island?
I will be waiting for your responds.
Thank you very much indeed for your valuable information.
Marcelo, All the information to visit is here.
Mar 30th, 2010 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.visitorfalklands.com
The only way you could achieve your plan of expressing self determination is to get Falkland Island status and that is not easy, you have to be born there or have a connection with the Islands (ie parents born there), or live there for a long time.
Below is information about how you can get residence, but that is not the same as FI status.
http://www.visitorfalklands.com
FYI, even British citizens not connected with the Falkland Islands, ie who do not have FI status have to apply for residence just like anyone else. Being “European” makes no difference.
JustinKuntz,
Mar 30th, 2010 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are making a fool of yourself and embarrassing the British people with your anti-Argy speech.
Have you ever been in Argentina? Um... I guess not
Please buy a ticket to Buenos Aires and you will see how silly you are.
Argentineans are one of the most open societies and friendly people in the world.
Of course if you go with this kind of attitude around the world, I really doubt you have any friend in the Island or in Britain.
Any one can make the British or any European nations looks like animals if start to post videos of our colonialist past era. Even today there is videos available of British troops killing Arabs and Afghanis arond the world.
Some please take another attitude with fellow Argentineans you will earn so much, soon or later UK will have to negotiate with Argentina the possession of the Island. This is for sure UK with its economy’s problems and internal pression for cuts on expending makes not look any good the 200 millions Pounds that UK spends to keep the status quo in the Islands.
And the oil bluff by Desire petroleum is not making any good.
So why not accept the inevitable and start to see how can you make new friend in the neighborhood?.
I would be doing this if I would be you, believe me.
Regards,
@J.A. Roberts
Mar 30th, 2010 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No problem mate we Europeans know all tricks.
We will see after being there :)
By the way can we bring dogs with us?
Regards,
Oh, I thought you were European Marcelo. So what are you? European or Argentine?
Mar 30th, 2010 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0marcelo
Mar 30th, 2010 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0By the way can we bring dogs with us?
NO , no wives allowed, just daughters. Leave them at the Air base. then fuck off again. thanks.
Ah mister Marcelo will then be paying 500 years of unpaid rent to the Indigenous in Argentina......didn't think so?
Mar 30th, 2010 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0later on Argentina will have to negotiate with the islanders, not the UK, we're just the defending power, you're going to have to convince the islanders, not the UK we're quite happy they wish to remain British.
Their experience with Argentina so far is a bullying thuggish spoilt brat who has bleated like a sheep for the past 180 years, you've got alot of wooing to do matey!
BTW current cost for defending the Islands is 60 million it's dropped by 50% since 1982, better aircraft and better fuel and the impotencey of the Argentine war/fail machine means we merley need half a battalion to scare you lot of, it took you 150 years to gather up courage to take on 80 royal marines and 100 Islanders with guns in 1982. (1 year for every man!)
How long is it going to take with 5 fighter jets, 2 patrol ships a battery of artillery and 300 well equipped soldiers, 1,2000 years?
@ J.A. Roberts
Mar 31st, 2010 - 07:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don’t really understand your point?
I’m European like you. I am assuming you are British Born in Britain so you and me both are immigrants down here. I was born in Italy (Bolzano or Bozen in German) and my parents are Germans and they came to Argentina when I was very young. Bozen is a community of Germans in Northern Italy.
Do you need more information?
Now tell me please where are you from? So we can establish how much British you are.
Argentina is full or Europeans also Americans, etc. where do you live in nutshell?
Anyway my friend the UK’s position is so weak none is going to accept the UK’s claim because will set a precedent and will open the door to future claims all over the world and especially in Europe.
Do you understand that?
Bozen, for example, identifies itself with Germany due to its large German population if Italy backs UK then Italy will have to give the same right to Bozen, do you understand the logic?
Spain has his own troubles with their autonomous communities, so I don’t see if even they are willing to support Britain to do so. Germany surely will not support you. So who is going to support Britain’s claim?
UK has not any support in the region even US is neutral, in Europe Spanish, Italians, Germans, Greeks, etc with the exception of France (I don’t know now if this will last really) are to the Argies side.
I don’t know if even Ireland will back you really.
Here in Argentina (I am living here now) are more than half million Irish and you have to heard how they send UK to hell while singing “Las Islas Malvinas Argentinas”.
A very catchy song, Don’t you think so?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsnMWE__LCU
See Douglas Richard Hurd, Baron of Westwell having an uncomfortable debate about the Islands.
I didn’t see too much support to the British’s claim. Do you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsnMWE__LCU
If you see the debate the only ones sending destroyers and submarines down here are the British the Argentin
@Rhaurie-Craughwell
Mar 31st, 2010 - 09:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0You don’t have to convince me about how much is your defense budget the 200 millions pounds comes from the British press according with UK govt. figures.
Convince Gordon Brown or the next govt. that you are so valuable and cheap to maintain, because they will have to choose between you and any unemployment benefit to cut in Britain.
And by the way can you clarify me please your controversial and contradictories declarations to the American press?
Quote from www.foreignpolicy.com
“Yet that doesn't mean the Falklanders consider themselves to be fully British. For all their flapping Union Jacks, red phone booths, and birthday celebrations for the Queen, Falkland Islanders view themselves as distinct. “That's like saying Texans are Mexicans,” one local farmer told me. “We're Commonwealth citizens, but we're not British.””
This means an identity problem I guess.
This is really fab:
Quote
““We certainly don't want to be part of Argentina,” a trawler captain named Mike Clarke told me. “I've got nothing against the Argentine people, but we're just totally different cultures. All the Argentines need to do is drop their claims and we'd all be happy and friends. But,” he adds, “it's not as easy as that.””
By the way I’ve been living for a while in Britain and I didn’t see this totally different cultures as part of language and the food. And by the way the food its is pretty bad in Britain sorry but that is so true.
Its is not so much arrogance from someone from a little Island with less than 2000 people in it to tell to a nation of 40 millions to drop their claim. This is very silly who is go to take you seriously?
Regards,
Marcelo, a right real little Realsist eh? You do Know realism has been discredited entirely since ww2?
Mar 31st, 2010 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“UK’s position is so weak”:
-If our position was so weak? Why hasn’t significant international pressure been applied? Answer a majority of the world doesn’t care, and if that’s the case then Argentina’s position is equally as weak.
” none is going to accept the UK’s claim because will set a precedent and will open the door to future claims all over the world and especially in Europe”
-I take it then that you reference the Islanders claims of self determination? And that Sates are unwilling to do so because such a concept would lead to the fracturing of European states?
Some how I do not think so. Self determination claims in Europe are wholly different to the one claimed by the Islanders, European claims are exercised within the fabric of states not outside them, it will set a precedence for places like the Isle of Man Greenland, Faroe Islands and other unicooperated territories and colonies world wide, most of these movements have been quite happily accommodated with devolution and federalism, with the consent of those people. Bozen and Spain are thus irrelevant to this argument, for the record, Spain doesn’t support us due to the fact she has her own little irredentist claim to Gibraltar, self determination would lose her claim no less!
But we can then turn your concept on it’s head, that all countries should take back territories which have been or were once theirs for any length of time. A precendence like this may occur:
Norway and Denmark take over the UK again, UK should take over Ireland, Americas should be split up between the European powers, Mongolia should own ¾ of the Eurasian landmass, Vatican should own the Central belt in Italy, lets not go into the precedence this would set for indigenous claims to self determination bye bye Americans, welcome home Europeans!
“UK has not any support in the region”
Mar 31st, 2010 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0-Tell us a new tune Marcelo!, What did you expect, Bolivia has a claim to Chile, Venezuela has a claim to ¾ of Guyana Guatemala still claims Belize and part of Mexico etc etc everybody’s licking each others backcracks in Latin America, its hardly new or even groundbreaking Marcelo! You going to be telling us that the earth is round next!
-As for France well you didn’t notice France has a lot of places clearly not in mainland France, one in south America as well which the most vocal denouncers of self determination for the islanders keep on the back burner, so the French will support us until they lose all of there overseas depts.
-The rest of the EU well, all support self determination since a majority of all members excercised it themselves namely eastern Europe, I highly doubt they would allow their former masters an excuse to exercise control again do ya think?
-As for Eire, they don’t because they are neutral, however they did drop their irredentist claim to Ulster, and recognized that only people will decide which country they owe allegiance to and wish to be governed by, not governments, perhaps Argentina should stop selecting the Anglophobic bits of the Irish history and focus on the productive ones?
“more than half million Irish and you have to heard how they send UK to hell while singing “Las Islas Malvinas Argentinas”.
-Good for them, I don’t care what ½ million plastic paddies think! but perhaps they should remember well that if they ignore self determination their country would still be a pert of the UK? And do you speak on behalf of all of them?
“See Douglas Richard Hurd, having an uncomfortable debate about the Islands”
Mar 31st, 2010 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Seen it, for from being uncomfortable, Douglas did very well, considering he is pushing 80! He was always concistent in his argument, “this is the 21st century we support the Islanders rights”.
Take the Argentine one his answers changed every time, never once did he answer the self determination question, just same old tangent about it’s in our constitution and we will respect their rights, we inherited Islands, etc etc. and your attempts to show 2 facebook posts and 1 phone call a reliable sample of world opinion are farcical!
“If you see the debate the only ones sending destroyers and submarines down here”
I believe its called protecting peoples rights Marcelo, but since you don’t believe in human rights and would quite happily see people bartered like fruit at a market, you can believe what you like.
“200 millions pounds comes from the British press according with UK govt. figures”
-So what? isn’t it true Governments have a duty to defend the wishes of their people, they want to be British, Argentina wants them to be hers, and has demonstrated the will to use force when the game doesn’t go their way.
“Convince Gordon Brown or the next govt. that you are so valuable and cheap to maintain, because they will have to choose between you and any unemployment benefit to cut in Britain”
No convincing needed Marcelo the UK economy would have to be in a pretty shite to desperately need savings of 200 million which is a very small % of a budget that exceeds several Trillion, very well we shall just sell 1 Eurofighter (70 million) that is how Cheap the Islands are to defend Marcelo!
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/03/02/mps-claim-uk-defense-spending-on-falklands-50-down-in-six-years
eer umm ohh! that’s nearly 150 million less than you claimed earlier? But you are effectively implying that if we reduced our defence presense that Argentina would invade, how democratically enlightened! I can see
“identity problem I guess”
Mar 31st, 2010 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0-Where is the identity problem? They have lived there their whole lives, born there, speak English etc etc, developed their own little culture, British is a multicultural identity you will find you can easily be Falkland British, they do not have to conform to some singular monologue identity, you of all people should know Marcelo?
Ps did you read the conclusion? http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/03/05/island_tango?page=0,3
And do read this as well: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/03/05/island_tango?page=0,3
“Its is not so much arrogance from someone from a little Island with less than 2000 people in it to tell to a nation of 40 millions to drop their claim. This is very silly who is go to take you seriously?”
-How is this arrogant Marcelo? This is a statement of their rights, I consider it disgusting that you think that 40 million should steam roller peoples rights because you consider it “very silly”? I consider it Arrogant that 40 million people who have never lived there, and a very small % of concisting of war veterans and families of the fallen have actually been there or go there, and have nothing in common at all, linguiticaly, culturally or even geographically can somehow decide whats best for them, that’s Colonialism wouldn’t you think?
Perhaps those beastly Irish were just to “arrogant” for their own good, how can 4 million people rule an island that big? lets go and take them over, it’s obvious since we are bigger we know what’s best for them eh?
How about arrogant little Luxembourg then? silly that such a small country should exist like that!
In fact how arrogant that Jews in the holocaust refused be de-humanised! Silly little people how dare they tell 50 million Germans that they are humans!
Regards,
@Rhaurie-Craughwell
Mar 31st, 2010 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 01- Don’t get angry with me man, the fact is none in America except, perhaps, I don’t know, may be, who knows Canada?
Do you read the news?
Well I will not argue with you about Europe because its is clear to me that you don’t know anything about Europe. In fact I’m really in a serious doubt about your British citizenship. What can I say?
2- “And do you speak on behalf of all of them?”
I don’t speak on behalf of anyone.
But you seem to do so, are you speaking on behalf of UK?
Well I personally don’t think so because I’ve spoke with a lot of them and they really don’t care about the Issue Malvinas or Falkland. At least in London so when you explain to them that the Islands are not close to Scotland and that the so British in danger and claiming for self-determination are some 1.800 people 8000 miles away from UK they come to the logical questions.
What are they doing there? Why UK doesn’t bring them home? Etc, etc.
But you can try by your self, come to Buenos Aires go to an Irish’s Pub, I recommend you on San Patrick’s Days so you will find a lot of Irish all together and make your questions to them.
Calle Reconquista in Buenos Aires will be a good start http://www.thekilkenny.com.ar/inicia.php
I will help you with your question...
I am British and I would like to know if you fellow Irishmen support us in the self-determination stuff over Malvinas?
Please bring with you at least 100 bodyguards and a good insurance blank policy and some Quids to cover your medical treatment because can be a very dangerous task.
Best regards,
@Rhaurie-Craughwell
Mar 31st, 2010 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well here we go again its seem that this is getting so long, anyway...
Do you understand your own language? See it again please.
1- He did not convince anyone except you perhaps and the so-called “Matt” that sent and email to the live program. May be Matt was Douglas Hurd’s son I’m not sure yet but seems to be.
The rest of the participant clearly where against the British position.
The argument about that now is the XXI century is the silliest thing I’ve ever heard in my entire life.
First he invoked the 1982 war to make his point to explain why the Islander want to be British (the stuff about that the argies imprisoned the Islanders). Ha! A very stupid mistake to be a diplomatic.
1982 was not the XXI century so himself invoked part of the history outside his own proposal to explain the XXI facts. Very silly and how do you explain the supposed right to self-determination without the explanation of why the British are there in the first place?
They were on vacation?
And please don’t tell me that the Argy was inconsistent because the debate was in English I would like to see Douglas Hurd debating in Spanish, German, Italian or French without a translator. Will be a lot of fun 100% guarantee.
2- Again you don’t have to convince me but try harder with UK govt. and especially with the conservative if they will win the next general election. I cannot help with that.
And your the defense’s budget for the Islands will be reduced next year and 15% of the troops was announced to be withdrawn from the Islands and will go to Afghanistan. UK is running out of money and troops
And by the way UK is close to the financial collapse and close to be the AAA rating to be downgraded by Americans rating risk agencies. Read the news please.
3- “very well we shall just sell 1 Eurofighter”
Oh yes! You will sell 1 ET. Are you really serious? Where in Ebay? Used stuff cost much less do you know that? And you have to rise another 130 million Pounds to cover
@Rhaurie-Craughwell
Mar 31st, 2010 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh my god! Here I go again ahgggfff...
1-“They have lived there their whole lives, born there, speak English etc etc, developed their own little culture, British is a multicultural identity you will find you can easily be Falkland British”
I’m European my family too and we didn’t find any problem in Argentina either.
In Buenos Aires the Jewish and Muslims live in the same street, they have business and they are friends and sometimes partners. So British are not a more open society than the Argies at least for Europeans.
Thanks very much indeed for your explanation about British culture but...
Did you read when I said that I was living in Britain for a while?
I go again, nothing surprised me.
The differences are the language, the food and in may case by living in Buenos Aires I found here a lot of more fun and another difference is that Britain (at least London) is slowly becoming more Asiatic and middle east and less European and more violent society. Well to be honest the whole Europe is turning to that path.
So the argument about the Argentineans wanted to bash the culture of the Islander is a complete false statement just UK’s govt. propaganda to keep the status quo.
“they do not have to conform to some singular monologue identity, you of all people should know Marcelo?”
I know very well because I live in Argentina a country that spoke more foreign language than the so self-called open societies. Go to Milan, Madrid or worse Paris with your English and then try in Buenos Aires.
In Paris you will die for the indifference of the French even if they understand English they will not give to you a glass of water if you don’t speak to them in French.
Can you see what is your problem, you are speaking as a xenophobic European that has fears to disappear from the face of earth because the new kid on the block speaks another language.
Agies don’t care about the language, religion or sexual preference you have mean while you don’t try t
@Rhaurie-Craughwell
Mar 31st, 2010 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can you see? You have run out of arguments and start to appeal to the nasty past to try to victimize yourself.
“How about arrogant little Luxembourg then? silly that such a small country should exist like that!
In fact how arrogant that Jews in the holocaust refused be de-humanised! Silly little people how dare they tell 50 million Germans that they are humans!”
Well this is very stupid comparison has nothing to do with the topic and if you want to talk about our blames from our European heritage we can start from the Greeks and the Roman Empire.
British has nothing to be proud of you have killed people in India, China, Africa and still killing people in Afghanistan. So you record of atrocities its quit difficult to surpass.
In fact the concept of the concentration camps was invented by the British in the second Boer War in Africa in 1900. Britain also was trafficking with slaves and Drugs sponsored by the British Crown.
And now are fighting wars for oil and gas assets.
Do you know your own history? Um I don’t think so.
You have to justify why you are in the land of the Argies illegally.
They accepted my family and me and I am quite happy and grateful to them.
Instead you following the British tradition are keeping by force stolen territories from the Argies as you always have done all over the world.
Well done UK an example to the world.
Regards,
My my Marcello you’ve outdone your self on this occasion congradualtions on 2,000 words of which 3oo relate to the current issue. I will address the main points, and ignore the rest!
Mar 31st, 2010 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. Europe: your hypothesise that the geopolitical structure of Europe and the world will collapse because the Falklanders gain self determination begs a complete re-think, and a poor understanding of the many different types of self determination, the Falklands will interest people with unincoporated overseas territories not internal nationalist movements! Nice try! BTW for the record I believe all nationalist moevements if they so desire provided there is a clear majority should breakaway. It’s a natural unstoppable process, even Argentina has it’s own succesionist movements!
3. Defence: At least you tacitly admit then that you were wrong on the 200 million? Jolly good!
But you wrote several paragraphs to tell me that Britain will reduce its personnel numbers to 1,375 in the coming year (excluding the 200 members of the Falklands funded defence force), I can see the 3 rusty tugs of the ARA on the horizon already!
4. You still didn’t answer my question on why it is “arrogant” for people running into their 9th generation to reject argentina’s claims, its called self determination Marcello! I don’t see they need anymore justification than that, it is a universally applicable right to all human beings, as for Argentina’s “land”, if that were so, why aren’t they ruling it’s the islanders land, not the UK’s not Argentinas!
As for “illegally” are you aware of how Argentina came into being, are you aware that 90% of Argentina’s current mass was aqquired by force at the expense of indigenous cultures in 1880? So by your logic all stolen land must be returned, good you and your family and 90% of Argentines with no indigenous heritage can catch the next boat back to Europe!
correction my bad:
Mar 31st, 2010 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I should actaully have said on point 1, they have already excercised their self determination! they are a fully autonomous self governing and financing country, with the exception of defence and foreign affairs where they need the diplomatic clout and military resources of the UK to defend them from Argentina's colonial ambitions in the region. Have the rats of nationalism overthrown the mighty yet?
self determination which you obviously struggle with, doesn't automatically donate independence as I said, a people any people could opt for one of many different avenues open to them to decide their own future, the Falklands have made it their intention quite clearly that Independence in free association with the UK is their ultimate goal.
Is that so hard to understand?
@Rhaurie-Craughwell
Apr 01st, 2010 - 05:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Is that so hard to understand?”
Yes because you are an illegal occupant of the Islands and people with that behavior don’t get any right in any part of the world. They only can keep the status quo by force like someone that illegally irrupts into your house and then claim for his right to self-determination.
Your logic is absolutely hilarious and none will accept that. Is a joke.
Especially with the background of UK that now is killing people in Afghanistan with the excuse of what? Self-determination?
I don’t think you can convince anyone in the world with that argument.
Regards,
“Is that so hard to understand?”
Apr 01st, 2010 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes because you are an illegal occupant of the Islands and people with that behavior don’t get any right in any part of the world. They only can keep the status quo by force like someone that illegally irrupts into your house and then claim for his right to self-determination.
Your logic is absolutely hilarious and none will accept that. Is a joke.
Especially with the background of UK that now is killing people in Afghanistan with the excuse of what? Self-determination?
I don’t think you can convince anyone in the world with that argument.
Regards
I don’t see how Afghanistan is relevant to self determination, different country, different situation, but how about the excuse of preventing a particularly nasty brutal religious regime from regaining power. Buts lets leave that there
Apr 01st, 2010 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 01. So you say the Islanders should be denied self determination because they are “illegal occupants” and thus by that logic they should de denied it? Interesting logic! so lets relate back to one of my points: How was Argentina created? Colonized at the expense of the indigenous, but it didn’t stop there during 1860-80 Argentina grow by 90% into the Chacos and Patagonia, yet again at the expense of indigenous cultures, so then you would agree this was “occupying” and thus the present day inhabitants of Argentina are thus “illegal Occupants” and for “such behaviour have no right to any part of the world”-Conclusion using your logic: “Would Mr Marcello and 90% of argentina please proceed to the one way flight back to Europe”!!!
2. The Islanders quite happily kept their status quo pre 1982 with no “military force”, a couple of home guard and 88 marines, hardly “kept by military force”, only an ignorant whose has never been to said Islands would say such a thing, the islanders would quite happily wish to see the back of the garrison, it’s a terrible reminder that their neighbour is still willing to violate their rights for some anachronistic 19th century slight to national ego.
3. If it was so “hilarious” and none have accepted it then why is this right enshrined in the UN charter and international law? The only “hilarity” is your belief that we can pick and choose who we deem more worthy of what is a universally applicable right to all human beings?
It is hardly a “Joke”, it is a very serious reality which has lead to the freedom from colonial rule of most of the worlds peoples! It is this “Joke” which justifies keeping you lot (Europeans) in South America.
4. If we haven’t “convinced” anyone with it, why do the EU and the Common w
Common wealth of Nations support seem convinced by it? And why did most of the newest members of the UN seem gain their current independent status by this “unconvincing argument”.
Apr 01st, 2010 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0my bad I accidentally pasted your arguement
regards.
Common wealth of Nations support seem convinced by it? And why did most of the newest members of the UN seem gain their current independent status by this “unconvincing argument”.
Apr 01st, 2010 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0my bad I accidentally pasted your arguement
regards.
@Rhaurie-Craughwell
Apr 01st, 2010 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“but how about the excuse of preventing a particularly nasty brutal religious regime from regaining power”
This is your point of view, if they want to be religious and nasty is their will who the hell are you to tell them what to do?
Your arrogance is so huge that your politicians in their speech referrer to themselves as we the west.
What west?
I’m in the west and more in the west than Britain and Britain does not represent the west at all. In fact for what respect to Argentina Britain is in the East. So who the hell are you to talk for the west?
To me your crown is pretty dictatorial and nasty and for that reason I will not invade and bomb you using the “preventing issue” as excuse.
Well to be honest I don’t know now after your “preventing a particularly nasty brutal religious regime from regaining power”.
May be if we the “west” lets see your regime so evil in the future we can invade, torture and nuke you to prevent more damage to this poor world.
Going back to Malvinas, you guys have 2 means to arrange the Sovereignty issue with the Argies.
One is in the smart, peaceful and civilized way (I will recommend this) the another is by force and wars.
Make your choice and if you choose the 2nd. buy a good machine gun just in case, I wouldn’t like to have the Argeis as my enemies believe I know what I’m talking about.
Regards,
Another irrelevant rant, I will repeat the points ad nauseum and do a running commentary on the rest ☺
Apr 01st, 2010 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Who the hell are you to tell them what to do?”
-Quite who the hell are you to tell the Islanders they are “unworthy” of self determination, who the hell are you call them “arrogant” for daring to speak up for themselves?
“Arrange sovereignty the smart, peaceful and civilized way”
-Good we shall hold a smart, peaceful, civilized democratic referendum on the Islands for them to decide their future
“I wouldn’t like to have the Argies as my enemies believe I know what I’m talking about”
-Bum raped were you eh? We had them as our enemies in 1982, the results were catastrophic for them to say the least.
My running commentary now over lets get down to the meat eh?
1. You say the Islanders should be denied self determination because they are “illegal occupants”?
So lets relate: How was Argentina created? Colonized at the expense of the indigenous, but it didn’t stop there, 1860-80 Argentina grow by 90% into the Chacos and Patagonia, yet again at the expense of indigenous cultures.
Would you agree this is “occupying” and thus the present day inhabitants of Argentina are thus “illegal Occupants” so “such behaviour have no right to any part of the world”
-Conclusion using your logic: “Would Mr Marcello and 90% of argentina please proceed to the one way flight back to Europe”!!!
2. Islanders quite happily kept their status quo pre 1982 with no “military force”, a couple of home guard and 88 marines, hardly “kept by military force”, only an ignorant whose has never been to said Islands would say such a thing, the islanders would quite happily wish to see the back of the garrison, it’s a terrible reminder that their neighbour is still willing to violate their rights for some anachronistic 19th century slight to national ego.
3. If it was so “hilarious” and none have accepted it then why is this right enshrined in the UN charter and international law?
The only “hilarity
The only “hilarity” is your belief that we can pick and choose who we deem more worthy of what is a universally applicable right to all human beings?
Apr 01st, 2010 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is hardly a “Joke”, it is a very serious reality which has lead to the freedom from colonial rule of most of the worlds peoples! It is this “Joke” which justifies keeping you lot (Europeans) in South America.
4. If we haven’t “convinced” anyone with it, why do the EU and the Common wealth of Nations support seem convinced by it? And why did most of the newest members of the UN seem gain their current independent status by this “unconvincing argument”.
Now Answer the questions it might hurt as you enter brain patterns you’ve haven’t used yourself for a while ☺
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