MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Uruguay/Argentina ‘scientific monitoring’ inside pulp mill remains unsolved
Uruguay and Argentina continued on Friday working to reach an agreement for the joint monitoring of the Uruguay River, with the goal of overcoming the long-standing conflict over the Botnia/UPM pulp mill. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesThis issue still goes well I see .......
Jul 24th, 2010 - 06:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yuhuuuu
Jul 24th, 2010 - 07:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pretty soon 1 month and five days open. (Auckland time)
www.elnuevoherald.com/2010/07/24/771264/concretan-detalles-de-acuerdo.html
Agreement to be signed on Monday
We keep celebrating!!
I don't think I like the idea of a mill so close to that border with Argentina, the size of it is what worryes me the most, I found this report And I wonder! where is Metsa Botnia going to get the wood for their million ton pulp mill ? and for what I read in other articles Botnia doesn't even need to come to Argentina since they have a port in Uruguay, could they be thinking on deforesting Argentine land ? naaaa the finish wouldn't do that will they ? so whay in hell would this bridge be such an important issue ?
Jul 24th, 2010 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.elnorte.fi/archive/2007-1/2007-1_elnorte_pakkasvirta.pdf
Gas: I am guessing you didn't read the paper at all.
Jul 24th, 2010 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Best quote in there:
“all the Argentineans are irrational, undemocratic, and quick-tempered. They do not understand what is happening in the world, they are somehow backward people who cannot follow the way to the
progress and development which made Finland as a rich welfare country”
Kind of sums up your whole country.
Oh my dear Argies, if you just focused all that energy you are wasting in others' matters on your own matters and just worked a little bit, what a rich country you would be!. Stop blaming others for your own problems and start looking inside your country. You could start with the obsolete and extremely contaminating pulp mills you have on the Paraná river which end contaminating the Uruguay river and the Río de la Plata.
Jul 24th, 2010 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 05 AMGVVV:
Jul 24th, 2010 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is a dump, starting with the Buenos Aires' Riachuelo, obsolete nuclear plants, deforestation, mining and hundreds of highly polluted industries unchecked.
Mr. Timerman proposal is a joke, they don't listen to their own people, why they're going to deliver “Inspections in both sides of the river” ?
They want UPM to move out of the away and impose argentinean law in a “free country” which it's not anymore; we’re part of their circle of influence.
(5) AMGVVV
Jul 24th, 2010 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We ar very focused and work hard everyday to make things better.
And when we need a rest we cross to beautiful little Uruguay for a well-deserved vacation.
1.5 millions of us every year...
And we return... and return...and return...
We love your country and you always make us feel at home.
Thanks
Most argentineans that cross the border they bring their own breakfast, lunch and dinner, like “Think”. Only a few rich spent some money in Punta del Este, Piriapolis. Tourism creates temporary jobs, 80% of uruguayans work for the State. In a country with 3.4 million inhabitants we've more than 260.000 public employees. Argentina is death weight, stops Uruguay from developing some industries, like UPM. Now, thanks to their “brotherly law”, suing us at the ICJ and imposing regulations inside our borders; investment will go away permanently. Argentinean tourism has been a curse to our country for decades, only provides temporary income for 3 months out of the year.
Jul 24th, 2010 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And don’t forget the estimated 11 billionU$D from private Argentinean citizens in Uruguayan banks. (Uruguay has a very lenient Bank Secrecy Law)
Jul 24th, 2010 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the estimated 16 billion U$D in real estate urban property own by private Argentinean citizens. (Again, estimated because of lenient and stable tax legislation)
Last but not least the estimated 20% of the productive land acreage of Uruguay own by private Argentinean citizens.
We love everything in beautiful Uruguay and we are totally integrated because we are, as a matter of fact, indistinguishable from each other.
Just look at Forlan’s Argie girl friend.... A little piece of Rioplatense Art........
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww46/jangler3/23259_Cobie_Smulders_7_Calabasas_Ma.jpg
You're right Think. So start taking care of your own businesses to make even more money to bring to Uruguay. I'm just giving you advice on how to be a happier Argie.
Jul 24th, 2010 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Man... the little money I have I use in Patagonia or on the best beaches on Earth; the coastal strip between La Paloma and Aguas Dulces.
Jul 24th, 2010 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can warmly recomend Posada Buscavidas
http://www.posadabuscavida.com.ar/laposada_ing.html
If you say that “Think” sends you; I get 10% commission and you get the same good price!
Dear Think:
Jul 24th, 2010 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have the bad habit of evading the subject: “Uruguay/Argentina ‘scientific monitoring’ inside pulp mill remains unsolved
As today our government is telling yours: ”stay outside the plant, we only agreed to monitor the river”. Maybe our leftish administration will surrender our sovereignty tomorrow, who knows. Regarding our banks secrecy and security it's a double fold issue. Many people had lost their money in the past, like in your banks. Putting money in bank accounts and buying property only helps the investor and not the working people looking for a better future. Industries like UPM and similar, offers permanent work and good paying jobs. Please don’t make us any more favors that help only your KIND. Stop suing your neighbors; we don’t need your form of imperialism.
Case closed
Jul 24th, 2010 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Agreement will be signed on monday
Stop
Time for the Uruguayan people to tell their government to represent Uruguayan intersts and people.
Jul 24th, 2010 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Uruguay, if they let in to many rats, they will think they are at home, and take over the place, be warned
Jul 24th, 2010 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And remember boys..........
Jul 25th, 2010 - 02:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mercosur legislation has made it a right for any of us to live and work in each others country.
This is very positive, specially for the estimated 200.000 Uruguayans residing permanently in Argentina.
Why would Uruguay let any so called Argentinian scientists into one of the most modern plants in the world? Why would they need unrestricted access to PRIVATE PROPERTY? The govt of Uruguay doesn't own the Botnia plant I don't see how they could even grant that access without their consent? Are private property rights so meaningless in Argentina that your government thinks they have the right to “inspect” whenever they want? No wonder there is no foreign investment there.
Jul 25th, 2010 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 017 fredbdc:
Jul 25th, 2010 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your reasoning is correct and logical; UPM is a PRIVATE PLANT on PRIVATE LAND.
The Argentinean demands are unreasonable, taking advantage of the Uruguayan government weakness, lack of courage and using their Southamerica circle of influence. They used the same strategy against the Falklands. They’re being blockaded by the rest of the continent under Argentina’s demands. Again, this government spends time, money and diplomacy to get their way.
The outcome of the Uruguayan- Argentinean conflict is uncertain. UPM could easily say: “take a hike”, “accept the international inspection of the plant” or “sue Uruguay for about 2 billion dollars”. So far UPM is silent, time will tell.
Sue Uruguay on what grounds? I would think Uruguay could counter sue with obstruction and win damages. They should at least threaten it and freeze Argentinian property and bank accounts within Uruguay until it settled.
Jul 25th, 2010 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(13) Correction
Jul 25th, 2010 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just been twitted....
No signing on Monday....
Too busy an Agenda.....
Possible new date 03/08/10.
Sory for the inconvenience...
See you at La Rambla....
Chau
Comment removed by the editor.
Jul 25th, 2010 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@fredbdc. I think the problem is that Uruguay has already virtually given in. Note how far Uruguay got with its request for provisional measures at the ICJ in 2007.
Jul 25th, 2010 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulp_mill_dispute_between_Argentina_and_Uruguay
Have to admit though, if I was Uruguay, I'd tell Argentina they could row over the river and test the output from there.
I think Uruguay used the wrong venue they should have used their own courts.
Jul 25th, 2010 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is a bully they are known to be strong with the weak and weak with the strong.
I assume you read the section about Uruguay before the Mercosur Tribunal.
Jul 25th, 2010 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like I said elsewhere, it seems that Uruguay needs a friend. Unfortunately, last time I looked, they refused permission for British aircraft on their way to the Falklands to land.
First you pick your friends, then you have to live with them.
Comment removed by the editor.
Jul 25th, 2010 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@25. J.A. You shouldn't say that. He may be of “mixed” origins.
Jul 25th, 2010 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Che botijas... .........
Jul 25th, 2010 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who invited all those Anglos to our Latino celebration............?
No Problem man..... we Argen-guayos are friendly people.
Everybody is welcome to our “Open Bridge party dudes !
No Problem man..... we Argen-guayos are friendly people
Jul 25th, 2010 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Laugh, you meant argidiots - gayos are both hispanic clowns...
19 fredbdc
Jul 25th, 2010 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Sue Uruguay on what grounds?”
If the Uruguayan government forces UPM to let argentinian inspectors in the plant or other inspections that are not agreed during the building and operation period, UPM could refuse. If the Uruguayan government aggressively imposes their will; the company could start legal actions or say: “shove it” and sue.
27 Think:
Once upon a time Argies and Uruguayans had a better understanding. Maybe the 500 thousand “hybrids” that live in your land are afraid that the KK’s and their henchman, Mr. Timerman could ship them back to Uruguay. Already your government is taking reprisal steps toward PLUNA, by cancelling flying permits to Bariloche. The news came out in El Espectador. No my neighbor, I don’t consider argies “party dudes”. We’re at war, so far is an economic one. The outcome is unknown.
Good point Harrier. A bit difficult sending one arm to Gwynedd, the other to Genoa and the rest to Granada.
Jul 25th, 2010 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0just like argentina, if you dont give it to them, they steal it,
Jul 25th, 2010 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Reading this article reminds me how desperate and lonely the islanders are.
Jul 26th, 2010 - 04:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2010/06/09/oas-assembly-gives-full-support-to-argentina-s-malvinas-claim
Marco, try and keep up with the herd and stay on topic... this one is about Argentinian economic bastardry against Uruguay.... you are looking for 'Argentinian economic bastardry against the Falklands' which is next to the 'Argentinian Border Dispute with Chile' article.....
Jul 26th, 2010 - 05:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0What's the big deal ? another pirat company desides that international order is less important than health or people. o wait and who are all this peolople against the environment ? no ! could it be more pirats ?
Jul 26th, 2010 - 06:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Evangelina_Carrozzo_Cumbre_12-May-06.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Evangelina_Carrozzo_Cumbre_12-May-06.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Evangelina_Carrozzo_Cumbre_12-May-06.jpg
Avargas... as you live in Canada you could at least attempt to speak the Queen's english.
Jul 26th, 2010 - 06:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Jul 26th, 2010 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0no ! could it be more pirats
Jul 26th, 2010 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Alex what it is with you and pirates? was you molested by a chap dressed as a pirate at the lunatic asylum fancy dress party
Comment removed by the editor.
Jul 26th, 2010 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hey guys !!!...this is the bloody subject: “Uruguay/Argentina ‘scientific monitoring’ inside pulp mill remains unsolved”
Jul 26th, 2010 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is an imperialist country; they sued Uruguay over a paper pulp mill and they lost. Now you government, the Kirchners and Mr. henchman Adolf Timerman want to brake our sovereignty. Insanely demanding to get inside the plant or blockading international bridges and braking commercial ties. Pluna’s flights permits have been cancelled. Why don’t you comment about that argies ?
Comment removed by the editor.
Jul 26th, 2010 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Jul 26th, 2010 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0if this pirats can pollute our river and drinking water supply, we have the right and moral obligation to prevent them from coming into Argentina, I say we close this bridge completely and every other road leading from Argentina to Uruguay and make sure that no truck loaded with trees goes in into Uruguay from Argentina, unless we can make sure ourselves that things are as they say and not another lie, in any case they are already breaking the law by pollution the waters witch is against the laws of the river, from the day they operate this mill the waste going in the water will cause the law to be broken again and again and again every day, this means the bridge can remain close untill they stop building it, and Argentina can open the bridge when the mill state of anarchy is over.
Jul 26th, 2010 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Terrific idea. Block the bridges...from the Uruguayan side. In fact, it would probably be a good idea to dismantle the Uruguayan half of each one.
Jul 26th, 2010 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gassious - the Uruguays are pirates too now! So many eh?
Jul 27th, 2010 - 02:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Think, I haven't been paying attention but today is Tuesday .... how did the signing go?
G'day young one
Jul 27th, 2010 - 05:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0You could read my post nr (20) you lazy brit.......
“” 20 Think (#)
Jul 25th, 2010 - 03:54 pm
(13) Correction
Just been twitted....
No signing on Monday....
Too busy an Agenda.....
Possible new date 03/08/10.
Sory for the inconvenience...
See you at La Rambla....
Chau “”
Personally I think the announcement will be made personally next week by Cristina and Pepe.
Good political points to be scored there....
Good political points.
Jul 27th, 2010 - 11:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0How Argentina bullies a Mercosur “partner”.
I love it when you slag of the pirates, its like shooting yourself in the foot and blaming the argentines,, considering the Spanish were the first to start it, followed by the French, we learnt well from there mistakes,
Jul 27th, 2010 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0shame you never did, but like your former masters, you to are losers, lololol
My favorite “pirate” was Lord Nelson, he was arrogant but what an excellent Master and Commander he was!!. Can you imagine him sailing around the Horn and the British Falklands Islands sinking argentinian canoes?
Jul 27th, 2010 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ok, we should make sure that every barrel of chemichal, or otherways waste toxic materials is acounted for in the way in or out of the plant, and that there is a secretariat in the area to monitor this, and aprove the continuation of the pulpmill operation on a monthly bases, the secretariat should aslo make sure that NO timber is taken from areas other then the proposed, or otherways already contracted land owners, the proposal for timber allocated for cutting on either side of the border should be writen withing 120 days to give a chance for enviornmentalist and the secretariat to do a fact finding, and ecological impact on the foreign or local resources, the procedural scheme should be scrutinized by the secretariat during these 120 days period.
Jul 28th, 2010 - 05:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0some things to consider when dealing with the lumber industry can be found here.
news.mongabay.com/2010/0708-neme_operation_jurupari.html
Just so long as there are no Argentines trying to make the rules in the sovereign state of Uruguay.
Jul 28th, 2010 - 10:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Go home british pirate, go back to Europe, you don't have any right here.
Jul 28th, 2010 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Any latin country wants you here, so don't try to make friends cause it doesn't work, we are latinamerican, we have the same historty, the same culture, the same language, we don't need your culture here and the last we want is read the rober's opinion. ;-)
Shame to the uruguayan governments that surrendered to Nazi Argentina our sovereignty. Pepe Mujica a tupamaro that murdered, robbed and kidnapped today is the Uruguayan president and argentinian lackey. Its’ embarrassing the unconditional submission to “Lady Botox”, the argentinian president. Uruguay is being economically blockaded like the Falklands but the people of Uruguay deserved, they allowed to happen. The only thing that matters to the Uruguayans is a piece of cheap beef, stew and mate.
Jul 28th, 2010 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tweet from Think:
Jul 28th, 2010 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ok boys ....... end of story.... It's signed... By both presidents :-)
http://www.clarin.com/politica/Cristina-Mujica-destrabar-monitoreo-Botnia_0_306569544.html
]Argentino, sadly you don’t have any history [it was Spanish] you have no culture [that was the farmers] and you don’t even have the same language, as no one in the west can understand you, [you need to learn English] and the real definition on a modern pirate , is prates that invade other people territory and claim them for them selves, robs without question, and picks on the little guys, but unlike the pirates of yesteryear, the modern pirates runaway when the big fellow calls, remind you of anyone [ARGENTINA
Jul 28th, 2010 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are british pirate, is important you recognize that.
Jul 29th, 2010 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0And please... nobody here is trying to use english, in Latin america we don't like and don't want your culture and your unspeakable jargon. Also we don't like the thieves and killers from UK, so please go home british pirate.
Argentina and any latinamerican country has a longer history than your son US, so don't be uncultivated and go to read some books, go out of the bubble and that little english world were you live.
Regards.
We havent killed any of your lot since 1982 FOOL!!
Jul 29th, 2010 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still, could be arranged I suppose!
In the meantime, how many OF YOUR OWN PEOPLE has your precious windbag govt killed?
Argentino
Jul 29th, 2010 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Remember what nanny mc Fee said,about the falklands
when they need us but dont want us [we will stay]
when they want us, but no longer need us,[ we must go]
I recommend argentinians to take history lessons on their own or go back to school, please not in Argentina, they’re fixed. As an example of how determine the British are, I’m encouraging you to read or watch YOUR History Channel on how Lord Nelson beat the Frenchies arses, sunk the Bismarck, fought against Nazi Germany, sunk the Belgrano with 2 well place torpedoes. Finally YOU lost the war because your whole strategy is based on whining !!
Jul 30th, 2010 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0go get the Falklands back now, you will never gat another or better chance, our defence minister my foxy, stated today, we can no longer defend ourselves, the royal navy will be no more, troops reduced by 30,000, 150 planes being scrapped, take the Falklands now, while you have the chance,, the YANKS are smelling victory, if you are to scared or cowardly to take them, the yanks will have them. go argies go go go
Jul 30th, 2010 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lord Nelson was better than I thought he was ....... and lived longer too :-)
Jul 31st, 2010 - 03:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0its ok guys the danger has passed, they had there chance, to late now, [i] picked this up on a military site, its an article about using some of our overseas territories for land based ballistic/cruse missiles defence in reinforced bunkers this was the gist of it below,[ the possibility of the Falklands moving its defence into land-based missiles, it got an interesting response! Here's my 'director's cut' of how the UK's military posture could develop. (I think of it as cheap, effective and common sense.) The UK has 14 overseas territories, in the North and South Atlantic, Pacific, I […] the Falklands among other being used as a super base for British military reach of power, saying the remoteness will deter, and safeguard the islands, it will be capable of destroy our enemy’s from say Argentina, all the way to china or Russia, from the Falklands, great Britain intends to stay, an reinforce the islands into a super base, [so argies] welcome to the future British commitment to the Falklands
Jul 31st, 2010 - 10:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and for peace, for everyone, all we want is to be friendly,
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