MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Inter American Press Association supports Clarin and La Nacion
The Inter American Press Association (IAPA), through its President Alejandro Aguirre, expressed concern about the intention of the national government of Argentina to “control the independent media”, describing several actions committed in recent weeks, as “a dangerous escalation against the freedom of expression that affects all citizens” in that country. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesIt'll be book burning next !
Aug 25th, 2010 - 05:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0A background on the Inter-American Press Association (IAPA):
Aug 25th, 2010 - 06:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0“In 1977 it was reported that IAPA was funded by the CIA.”
http://tinyurl.com/4bhe7g
El Mercúrio (Chile) and Estado de São Paulo (Brazil) are two dailies that belong to IAPA. They both supported the military coups that overthrew the civil governments in their respective coups - coups in which CIA was involved.
“IAPA becomes a useful tool when a Latin American country undergoes democratic or revolutionary change. Fred Landis describes how newspapers in the target country become propaganda instruments manipulated by the CIA and its affiliated organs: 'IAPA stands ready, with all its hundreds of cooperating member newspapers, to scream ”Marxist Threat to Free Press“ if any attempt is made by the target government to restrict the flow of hostile propaganda.'”
http://tinyurl.com/4bhe7g
I rest my case.
FOrget, Be careful where you are getting yoru souce material...the reference you used is a extremely biased and funded by Marxists...
Aug 25th, 2010 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Established in 1983, the Center for Media and Democracy (CMD) aims to “strengthe[n] participatory democracy by investigating and exposing public relations spin and propaganda” -- focusing largely on what it views as the transgressions of political conservatives. Another CMD objective is to assist liberal and leftist “grassroots citizen activism that promotes public health, economic justice, ecological sustainability and human rights.” Toward these ends, CMD produces articles and blog posts on the political, social, and economic issues of the day.
In CMD's view, capitalism generally, and corporations in particular, are the principal root causes of societal ills in the U.S. and abroad. The Capital Research Center, which rates the ideological leanings of nonprofit organizations, places CMD near the extreme far left of the spectrum. The website ActivistCash, which provides “information about the funding source[s] of radical anti-consumer organizations and activists,” characterizes CMD as “a counterculture public relations effort disguised as an independent media organization.”
3 fredbdc
Aug 25th, 2010 - 12:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know what I'm talking about, alright? IAPA's president, Alejandro Aguirre, has been in Brazil during the last month. He insulted our president over something he himself had no say: some decision made by the courts about a journal story on the Senate President José Sarney.
As the quotes I've adduced show, IAPA's function is to smear left-leaning presidents in Latin America. Some newspaper members at IAPA are known in the past to have supported coups against left-wing presidents in South America. El Mercúrio, a member at IAPA, supported the coup against Chilean president Salvador Allende. And Estado de São Paulo, also a IAPA member, supported the coup against the Brazilian João Goulart.
Do you want a recent illustration of how dirty is that organization? What about a former IAPA president, Robert Cox, expressing support for the 2002 Venezuela coup? tinyurl.com/28ldq7p
What you've posted doesn't mean anything. As I have no time to verify it, I don't know whether it is true. And if it is, so what? That a forum leans to the left somehow proves it is always wrong? I myself wouldn't turn my face to some news report just because it was produced by a right-wing outlet. I would only ignore it if somehow I knew it is funded to smear certain kinds of leaders.
When you agree Marxist/Socialist/Facist beliefs of course you will read and promote those organizations whether they write their articles with journalistic integrity or not.
Aug 25th, 2010 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Too bad that coup didn't work in Venezuela they probably wouldn't have the highest murder rate in the world now if it did.
Is it paranoia if you REALLY ARE being followed :-)
Aug 25th, 2010 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ha he ha the inter american press wants to run Argentina, why would interamerican press support criminals who don't follow the laws ? didn't they read Clarin broke trading laws in Argenmtina ? even in Canada when a company break the laws pays a fine or has its licence removed, or revoked, why the dubble standards ?? in Canada we pay 26% tax on gas and when Venezuela went for a 25% tax we called Chavez a dictator, oviously there is a set of laws for the white and another set of laws for Latin America, racist bastards, this is the reason we should get all this people and their companies out of Aregentina, Clarin and la Nacion are the enemy of Argentina I couldn't read the garbage they print about Argentine, I hope they get rid of both papers and start a national news agency, one with objective news not pesimist sharades.
Aug 25th, 2010 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 07 AVARGAS2001 Yes! and appointing Goebbels for running this national news agency...
Aug 25th, 2010 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 05 fredbdc
Aug 26th, 2010 - 12:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Again you do not address my point: whether the news report comes from a leftist outlet or not, doesn't of necessity diminish its validity.
As for the failure of Venezuela coup, it's not like the US hasn't tried to make things easy for the coup-plotters, isn't it? The US supported the plotters when they overthrew Chávez and tried to get Latin American nations to do the same. Colombia - it's always Colombia - succumbed to the pressure. Brazil, even though it was under a right-wing president, did not.
And do not forget about this: your country, the US, has supported the overthrow of Latin American leftist leaders in the past. And what was the end result of this? 400 Brazilians dead; 20,000 Argentinos dead; 17,000 Chilenos dead; 370 Uruguayans dead. Think twice before supporting a coup against a leader just because you dislike him. US's record is already too dirty as it is.
Media have tremendous power in setting cultural guidelines and in shaping political discourse. It is essential that news media, along with other institutions, are challenged to be fair and accurate.
Aug 26th, 2010 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They should have shipped Chavez to Colombia or the USA to stand trial for supporting terrorists. legally fixed that pos for good.
I don't care what methods we used to rid communists from our hemisphere, too bad it didn't work in Cuba, and btw you are lucky we did it!
I hope we get back to it soon because I think we have become too weak. We wouldn't be having this problem with Iran now if Carter had the balls to go in there and fix the problem in the 70s. Now we have Carter II in charge but he will be out soon enough and things will get back on track again.
#10 Chavez will not be shiped to USA unless USA ships bush to Venezuela for plotting the coup against Chavez in 2001 and for killing saddam hussain under false WMD pretext, we might as well ask for blair to be shiped to Iraq for the crimes in and the terrorists UK and USA trained in Iraq during the war.
Aug 26th, 2010 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am sure the Venezuelans will wake up and take care of the problem before Huge gets a chance to flee the country.
Aug 26th, 2010 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 012 fredbdc
Aug 27th, 2010 - 01:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0I like your frank talk. It dispenses away with typical American hypocrisy about supporting freedom abroad. You seem to recognize what is really US's interests: to promote its strategic and economic interests worldwide even if for this to be accomplished other countries' sovereignty needs to be violated and their people killed.
But João Goulart, our president overthrown by the coup in 1964, was no Communist. Unfortunately our military and the American authorities that supported them, were so paranoid about the Communist spread, that they couldn't see that Goulart was not a threat. So 400 Brazilians dead during the 21 years of military government died in vain. And so did 20,000 Argentinos during their last military junta.
Fortunately for Latin America, the US is too weak to continue doing what it did during the Cold War: it is too weak in both economic (risk of double dip) and military (can't even win over Afghanistan) terms. Only small countries like Honduras can still fall prey to the paper tiger.
Forget, It is not that we are too weak there is not a threat of communism any longer and South America doesn't have anything we need. We have our military bases where we want them already, strong allies in Chile, Peru and Colombia and a strong trading partner in Brazil. What more do we need? The USA (and the rest of the world for that matter) don't care about South America or Africa they can be left to their own devices without harming any other part of the world.
Aug 27th, 2010 - 02:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0The world depends on the US economy and might so don't count us out because we are currently run by an idiot professor. We have a new election cycle this year that will get rid of the Socialist/Marxist in the congress and Senate then in 2012 we will take back the White House. I am a bit concerned no one has emerged as a front runner just yet but someone will soon. There are many of us that realize the mistakes we have made and will do whatever needs to be done to fix it with the next two elections.
You're mistaken in thinking South America doesn't have anything you want. The US's been drooling over the Amazon for some centuries. That's why it's always trying to install bases in the area. That's why 1st World drug companies are always, even if ilegally, haging around there. That's why 1st World-based “environmentalist” NGOs enjoy invading the forest. Did you know that in 2001 the US tried to get a aerospacial base in Northeast Brazil (at the westernmost point of the Amazon forest) under its control? It couldn't get it because the Congress and the population resisted. The US's also interested in - for it depends on - Venezuela oil. In the near future that will also be true of that new oil discoveries in the Brazilian coast. As for Colombia, Peru and Chile, let's see how steady US partners they'll be in a few years if the current economic paradigm - with declining US power and increasing China clout over region - keeps deepening. I already see such a shift in Colombia: new Colombia president Santos has already said that his foreign policy, in contrast to that of Uribe, will be focused in increasing regional integration, not to appeasing the US. China already is the most important trade partners to Chile and Brazil. That's probably why these countries have not been deeply affected by the world crisis, something that shows they no longer have deep needs for trade with the US. In contrast to what you said, the US is not vital for all world economies. And neither does the world depends on its might. The provincian Americans enjoy saying the world safety depends on their military prowess. But the only country that does depend on it is the US itself. When it comes to Latin America at least, the US has been more of a destructive rather than a protective force. As for Brazil, if it were not for our sell-out, subservient presidents of the 90s, the country would already have an ballistic missile platform and nuclear bombs. No: no need for the US.
Aug 27th, 2010 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But the Treaty of Tlatelolco was signed in the 60s and Brazil signed it in 1967!!
Aug 27th, 2010 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All but the first president of the military regime (1964-1985) had nuclear ambitions. The Tlateloco treaty didn't stop them in either planning or developing nuclear research. In 1975 military president Geisel (1974-1979) brought nuclear energy to the country - not only because he wanted to reduce dependence on imported oil, but also because he wanted to produce nuclear weapons. There was a secret nuclear weapons program. It was exposed (and canceled) only in the early 90s in a move by President Collor intended to appease the US. And only in 1998 Brazil signed the NPT, another move (this time by sell-out president Cardoso) that irritated the military and that intended to pander to the US. But the current president of Brazil clearly dislikes the NPT; he frequently criticizes the power imbalance that the treaty enshrines (something the military presidents openly complained about in world forums). In his 2002 presidential campaign there was some talk that Brazil would withdraw from the NPT during his term. Some suggested that due to a discourse he made to generals and colonels a month before taking office. In my opinion, there are some signs that Brazil is quietly advancing research in nuclear weapons. One of the most suggestive is the defense, made last September by VP José Alencar, of the production of nuclear weapons as a means of dissuasion.
Aug 27th, 2010 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(17) Forgetit 87
Aug 27th, 2010 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I remember vagely (my Alzheimer light :-) hearing or reading about a comment of Lula after a visit to Bush Junior in the mighty US of A........
He should have said somethíng like: This guy (Bush) is crazy... He is messianic.... ”I would not be serving my country in a responsible manner if I don't permit the development of nuclear weapons to defend us from such a lunatic.....
Forget you are wrong yet again, China trade with Chile 17B and with US 23B. Do you really think the US would invade a country to find an unknown chemical/substance?
Aug 27th, 2010 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0China does a good job clamping down news stories. It is not nearly as stable as it wants everyone to believe. They have lots of internal strife. Like Argentina they just raised income by 20% for city dwellers, the country folk are feeling left out. There is going to be another revolution which will use up the reserves pretty quickly buying food for the starving while nothing is being exported. It is just a matter of time and when it happens it will be long and ugly.
On Venezuela, we are their biggest trading partner they only supply 10% of our oil. We don't need them as much as they need us. Plus we have the only large capacity refineries they can use. Oil isn't any good until it is refined especially theirs.
We will have to see what happens with Colombia they get so much free military hardware from us that I can't see them allying themselves against us for China for any reason. It just doesn't make any sense.
It is funny how Argentinians are hoping and praying for the demise of the US when we have had a very brief economic downturn. Even after a few years of slow economic growth we are still the largest economy BY FAR. China is still 50% of what we are and they are number 2! Do you think they will continue to grow at the same rate they have been without having a downturn? It's never been done in the world's history I doubt it is going to happen now.
The USA will be the strongest richest country in the world for at least the rest of my life which is all that really matters :)
@17. Oh, goody. Brazil is going to repudiate the NPT, is it? That will enable Britain (always a stickler for the law) to bring its submarine-launched nuclear weapons to the South Atlantic.
Aug 28th, 2010 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ohhhh, the peace-loving South Americans!!
It would be good to give a definition about what's the iapa.
Aug 30th, 2010 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It' s just a powerfull corporation like any other, wich only defends it's interests, and does not give a shit about the true independent media.
Since started this great push of power, i hear all the time from those soposed independent media corporations, that the government wants to restrain the critic media, my question is, ¿isen't it already a great restriction to the critic media, if there is only one enterprise that sells the paper at the prize that it wants?, how many newspapers are prejudiced because of the monopoly of newsprint, many of those newspapers must import the paper, and all the rest pay a very hight prize to get the paper, and publish editions.
For all these media corporations is evident that only the state can restrain the press, please, only an ignorant would believe that.
Dont you think it would be fair that all the newspapers can have acces to an equal prize for all the newspapers, because in this way there will be much more edictions of all of them, and they will compete like in any other country.
If any other the government didnt take actions on papel prensa, it was because any of them wanted to have clarin against their governments, in fact all of them since 1976 were the guarantees of the mediatic and economic concentration, including nestor kirchner, but now the situation is very diferent, cristina does not want clarin to keep o interfering on the plan hat she has for her government, and this is why sh wants to regulate the production of paper.
Regarding the iapa, i dont know what is it waiting to say unless a word about the 9 journalists that have been killed in honduras since last year.
I would like to know what was the behaviour of the iapa, during the militar dictatorship in argentina, when many of my compatriots were being kid nupped, tortured, and finally killed, did it say a word about it?.
@harrier That a country develops NW doesn't mean it seeks war. Of the current NW powers, only one's used a NW in an actual war context. A NW is used mostlty as a mean of dissuasion, specially against another nuclear country. And it's dangerous for a country, any country, not to have such weapons. The US and the UK have shown this. They invaded a weaker nation even when there was no excuse to do so. As for sending a nuclear submarine to that island - whatever. Brazil is not interested in it. Just remember that Argentina is also a nuclear threshold state.
Aug 31st, 2010 - 05:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0@fred Don't be so trusting about China's demise. To surpass the US, China's no need to be a 1st World nation. By having a Venezuelan GDP per capita, China'd match US total GDP. And that this - China's ascension - is the most probable outcome for the years to come, is suggested by recent history: China's been keeping 10% growth for more than 3 decades already (or 4, I don't remember well). That was also unseen in history. And for decades the US's been having difficulty growing more tha 4% a.y. There's nothing unusual about that: developed countries tend to grow less than developing ones. Yes, China is nr 2. But 8y ago it was only nr 7. I like your confidence on the US, though. It's rather moving. Just goes to show how the average American mind thinks more on the basis of jingoism and childish nationalism instead of serious analysis of world trends. That's why you lost in Iraq and that is increasingly true of Afghanistan: you have no sense of reality. You should read “History of the Pelopponesian War”. You'll see that US coming demise has a close parallel in history: Athens demise.
As for Colombia, know that for no country on the world - save Israel - the acquisition of military hardware is of vital importance. Is receiving weapons of benefit for Colombia as a whole? Santos doesn't think so. That's why he's seeking closer ties with South America: because that is in his country's economic interests.
Forget, you are blinded by the Socialist/Marxist left. Even if China makes it to #1 GDP (which they won't in my lifetime) they are still very far from the US standard of living.
Aug 31st, 2010 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Since we are the largest economy in the world BY FAR averaging 4% growth per year is ASTOUNDING! The 4% growth per year is like adding the Swiss economy EVERY YEAR to our base. BTW Argentina is a lot lower on the list.
Since China controls all the media and creates the stories it wants published, creates the GDP number it wants etc. their numbers are extremely suspect and there is no way for anyone to prove they are not.
On Iraq:
Given where Iraq was a few years ago, today’s situation has to be judged a substantial success. Iraqi citizens are taking responsibility for their own security and governance. They are participating in elections. Violence is down and the local economy is coming back. The launch of the war always is going to be controversial, but we are about as close to peace with honor as is possible with the complexities in that region.
You should read some US history to see what a remarkable place and people we are and why we will not fail in the long term. We are not a country of Latins we are mainly Anglo-Saxons. Has the UK failed yet?
You are not comparing the right histories.
Living standards have nothing to do with a nation's economic clout. If they had, Sweden would be a world power. As for US growth figures, you're misreading what I said about them. I didn't say the US's been growing 4% ay. I said it CAN'T grow 4% ay in sustained fashion. It was 2000 when the US last grew >4%.
Aug 31st, 2010 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Average US growth in 1980-89: 3% ay.
In 1990-99: 3.5%.
In 2000-09: 1.6%.
http://tinyurl.com/28oq4pt
In contrast China's averaged more than 9% ay in all 3 decades. In the last one it averaged 9.9%: that country's record. This might disappoint you, but China's economy hasn't been giving signs of cooling. As for the assertion that the numbers are fabricated: can you prove it? If you can't, then I'll assume you're just in denial. It seems that for your country to be the top gun matters a lot to you.
As for the Iraq War, an Israeli scholar of military history, Martin van Creveld, said something of interest of it: that it's been the most disastrous invasion in 2000 years. Also, your assessment on Iraqi security forces is too optimistic. An Iraqi General diparts from it: http://tinyurl.com/28oq4pt
As for this: “what a remarkable place and people we are and why we will not fail in the long term”
This looks like the thoughtless jingoistic, triumphalistic, parochial mentality I've criticized. Athenenians, btw, were a remarkable people. And even after their defeat at the Pelopponesian war, they continued to produce intellectual heavyweights (Plato, for instance). But their power declined. That of the UK also declined. It's not collapsed; but it's geopolitcally a dwarf compared to the empire it'd been before. Right now the UK looks more like a European branch of US power rather than a nation with an independent agenda. But I'm not saying that the US will shrink until becoming something to that. I'm saying it will decay. It'll still be powerful - just like Russia is powerful. It will not be a superpower; just like Russia isn't anymore. And finally, Athenians weren't Latin.
-! Census 2000 USA !-
Aug 31st, 2010 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://books.google.com/books?id=Jw3kn_AgNTkC&pg=PA361&dq=English+US+census+1790#v=onepage&q=English%20US%20census%201790&f=false
Latinos in USA: 21.5%
(Including Mexicans,Italians, French -Americans, Hispanics and Puertorican)
Anglos in USA: 22.8%
(including Irish, English, Scottish and Scott-Irish)
Census 2010 arriving soon..... My guess...... USA is already Latino Country...
Gringos Chingados :-)
FREDBDC:
Aug 31st, 2010 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is no doubt that your country will keep on being the largest and richest economy of the world, but many of us dont think that the u.s.a will keep on having the same influence in the future that it had during all these long years.
Brasil, china and india are becoming into very strategic and powerfull, maybe the usa will have to share it's power and influence with those nations, probably i am wrong with my assertions, no one is the owner of the truth, but i only judge what i see, that's why since i know you, i refute many of the catastrophic assertions and wishes that you have for my country.
On the other hand, read my comment number 21, you will know what i think about the iapa, and about the papel prensa conflict.
One thing I know is that we will all be dead before any other country eclipses the power and prestige of the USA.
Sep 01st, 2010 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0I must conclude that you are just jealous and angry that you are both stuck in a dirty, far away, insignificant county and I am in the worlds greatest. Sorry.
Unless you're 70 yo or more and live until 85, you'll live more than a decade with the US being the nr 2.
Sep 01st, 2010 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0And please, nobody envies another person just because his country is well-off. That you think so only shows parochialism from your part. My personal wish for the US to fall is linked only with that country's history of intervention in the country I live (and I'm not Argentino, btw). Had the US kept distance from Latin America, had it not believed it had the right to intervene in the region's internal affairs, had it not imposed puppet regimes, which most often were also violent regimes, on the region's peoples - I wouldn't care at all about that nation.
Just want to close my part in the discussion with this quote by Schopenhauer:
“Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and happy to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.”
I don't mean to say that you're “a miserable fool.” But that description seems to fit you entirely. You seem to recognize your country's horrible record in meddling in others' affairs. And yet you defend the way it acts, you even say I should should be grateful for it. That's alright. But you need to accept that people will resent that interventionism, and that has nothing to do with jealousy. That has to do with desire for freedom from external coercion, a feeling that is common to all peoples. Anti-imperialism is imperialism's shadow.
Forget, you are very much like the idiot professor that is our current President. You like to use big words and quote ancient philosophies while not really understanding them. I feel sorry for you.
Sep 01st, 2010 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0FREDBDC:
Sep 01st, 2010 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You only show once and again that you are just a bit of shit as a person, firstly i dont need argentina to become the richets nation of the world to be proud of it, the place where some one is born is sacred, no matter if you were born in denmark or in haity, i already told it to you, if you need your country to be a powerful and influential nation to be proud of it, that shows how mediocre you are.
Regarding the dirty war that you invoke, if we are still suffering the consecuences of the last dictatorship, and if we are judging since 5 years ago the responsability of the politic and militar authoritys, you should ask your self why?, you should wonder why it was not made before, it's very easy for you to criticise from the place you are standing, because you never suffered any militar dictatorship.
Axel: Have you ever been to Chile? Didn't they have a military dictatorship? Why don't you go and take a look at what happens when a country adopts capitalism and a free market system it succeeds. You don't need a visa and it is pretty cheap to fly there. Quit whining and crying about the past and look at the current state of your government and do something about it.
Sep 01st, 2010 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't feel sorry for you because you seem pretty smart you are just lazy and have been taught a false premise by your corrupt society.
FREDBDC:
Sep 01st, 2010 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know perfectly what kind of country chile is, it's a very admirable nation, i have nothing against the chileans, and i really hope that they can improve after this terrible year for them, anyway we must recognize too that it's still a very unequal society, but it will improve i am sure of that.
Regarding my country, you wont never accept that our situation improved so much too, we had many achievements, maybe our economic program is not the best, but in spite of all the deficiences that it has, i prefer it one million times, instead of the fucking neoliberal state that we had during last decade.
This protectionist state that we have, supports strongly the productive sector, wich create more and more jobs, and gives a full help for the poor people, i already know that you dont give a shit about it, because it's socialism, and it's absolutly repugnant for you, but thanks to this economic program, in spite of the hight inflation that we have, since this year, my country became again into the equalest nation from latin america, argentina had lost that place in 1994, because of the fucking neoliberal policys of menem's government.
If we would have a serious referent of economic liberalism, maybe i would vote him, but all the liberal referents that we have, are fervent admirers of menem's policys, do you know what it means?, we do, and we dont wnat to go back to that shit.
If lucking at the past is irrelevant for you, thats' your problem, my country has still many debts with our society, and i am absolutly proud that my country is the only from latin america wich is judging the dictatorship, all the rest fo the nations should to the same, i hope they do it, finally i would like to know what kind of moral authority do you have to criticise the corruption of our society, if you lock at your past and present, you'll see that in some aspects you are not much better than us, maybe when you live your idiot haughtyness behind, you can realise of that.
Axel: Your society is unequal because you have a corrupt, unstable government with no rule of law or respect for property rights. It will never get better until the population realizes you are on a doomed path.
Sep 02nd, 2010 - 02:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is no hope in your country for a very poor person to become rich legally.
Your country has such wild economic cycles because there is no respect for private property or rule of law. Why do you think the owners of business get their money out of Argentina as soon as they can? You government has a history of “liberating” “nationalizing” whatever they can get their hands on and giving it to the poor. Your inflation gets out of control because the business owners know that they have to make lots of $ during the good times because really bad times will come or the rules of the game will change.
Why do you think the USA has the largest migration of any country in the world? It is not because we are the richest it is because we are a country of laws and we respect property rights. It's not because people come here to get government handouts. They want to work, start a business, invent something. People risk their lives and the lives of their children to get a chance to live in the USA, even 250K Argentinians.
Why do you think Argentina has very little patents issued, because if someone invents something it is stolen by a government crony. Your country doesn't create anything and hasn't since the early 1900s. There is no hope that the next generation will be better off then the previous.
Unfortunately we are experiencing this now in the USA. The leftist government currently running the USA has tried to make the USA into Europe. There is a huge revolt brewing and not only will we change the Congress this year we are going to change everything the left has corrupted and soiled in the past 40 years. It is just beginning. Argentinians need to do the same thing. It is too bad it will never happen.
@fredbdc
Sep 02nd, 2010 - 08:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0With such a poor answer, I cannot but conclude that assessment was more correct than I thought before: you are a miserable fool.
Forget, It's OK if you think I am a fool a lot of Argentinians do. You are a typical Argentinian and are a very sad character proselytizing nonsense, using big words thinking you are smart when everyone around thinks you are stupid, arrogant and insufferable. I have met a lot of you in Argentina. It is amazing to me that such a poor backward country can produce such arrogance.
Sep 02nd, 2010 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0FREDBDC:
Sep 02nd, 2010 - 02:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are right on some of your assertions, my country has cycles, and our bigets failure is that there is no any continuation betwen the diferent governments , any new president destroys the good achievements of the before administration, because they think there are no better policys tham theirs, beside they are great corrupters.
I hope it changes now, and i really think it will happen, since 2003 there were very important achievements, and if next administration eliminates them, it will be a very big politic cost for it.
Regarding what you call thief of private property, i know perfectly what you mean, and i already told you what i think about it, you should make a deep analise about why our government toke that decition, it's very simple to say that it did it because it's a corrupter gov., wich does not respect private property, but you ignore vey important facts.
Regarding the reason why many bussiness men take their money out of the country, it's because there is not trust in our economy, that's because of the terrible crisis that we had in many oportunitys, and after the crisis of 2001, the trust was destroyed, it will take many years to recover it betwen most us, even i have my saves in dollars at our central bank.
On the other hand, intern and foreign investments represent 23 points of our gdp, like in brasil or others countrys, beside foreign investments had a record in the last years, you should inform your self better.
Finally about the respect of the laws, i think that some laws are not respected in buenos aires, but in the rest of the country the situation is very diferent, beside i have been reading a few days ego, an interview to eugenio zafaroni (member of our suprem court), he said that the country has a reasonable level of legal security, if you compare it with the world's level, or the latin level.
However some bussiness men argue the lack of it, because they actually want to use it only to get corporative achievements.
Actually I was not commenting on the obvious robberies your government has committed. I was talking about the corrilito, confiscating U$ to Pesos, creating new laws and taxes specifically to bankrupt whatever business they want to take over, like the water companies, airlines, trains etc.
Sep 02nd, 2010 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is why you have very little foreign investment in your country about 1/2 as much as Chile and they are a LOT smaller.
http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=bx_klt_dinv_cd_wd&idim=country:ARG&dl=en&hl=en&q=argentina+foreign+direct+investment#met=bx_klt_dinv_cd_wd&idim=country:ARG
FREDBDC:
Sep 02nd, 2010 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are right, the corralito was an absolut robberie, that was the hardest brake of the trust that people had in our economy, and it will take many years utill most us recover it.
Regarding the nationalization of the pension sistem, it was a robberie too, it made lost to the sistem more than 400 million dollars, i already told you that it was necesary to recover it, because people were going to charge an small salary, dont you think it's a true trick?, beside there is a denounce in the justice made by the government to the private administration.
Regarding the airline, when the state revovered it, it was broke, in fact one it's ex ceos, was yesterday in the justice, because he is acused of having broke the company during last decade, since the government toke aerolineas argentinas, the deficit diminished more than the half, the service improved so much, and for 2012 it's forecasted that it will start to have surplus.
On the other hand, i think you have a twisted opinion about what's a true robberie, we didn't steal anything, we only recovered unless one part of what was sold by that son of a bitch (carlos menem), during the 90, beside we had to pay to all those corporations for having nationalized those companys, it's evident that for you when the state nationalizes an enterprize, it's a robberi, however you dont say a word when some of those foreign companys broke our enterprizes, every day is more obvious what you really defend.
Regarding the foreign investments, you are wrong again, i already told you that foreign investments represent 23 points of our gdp, like in brasil and others countrys.
Was my google link incorrect? It only shows 9B. BTW you didn't pay for the Airlines or Water company. What the gov't did was drive both of them out of business by price capping what the consumer paid, requiring the airlines to fly unprofitable routes until the companies were bankrupt. That is how they have “legally” nationalized every business.
Sep 03rd, 2010 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0BTW Argentina has the most pending ICSID cases of any member country and have lost every case that has gone to trial but your country refuses to pay the judgments. The world bank is now trying to figure out how to make you pay the debts. They will probably start withholding loan funds until paid. it's pretty embarrassing and very dishonorable.
FREDBDC:
Sep 03rd, 2010 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I didnt express my self correctly, what was a robberie was the private pensions sistem, it made lost to the sistem more than 400 millions dollars, there is a denounce in the justice.
Regarding aerolineas, the balance of the enterprize at the moment that was nationalized, was negative, the case is in the international court, and lest see how it finishes.
About the water company, i can't say a word about it's nationalization, because i dont know anything about it's balance, i only know that since the state recovered it, the service works very weel, it makes planty of infracture works, beside it's very cheap, because it's subsided by the state, for us the water subministration is not a bussiness, it's a human right, anyway i respect that posture that you have regarding this aspect, but i dont agree in absolut on it.
About the cases tha my country has in the justice, untill now, the bons holders who tryed to get money from our country, only could achieve to freeze our counts for a while, but finally judge griesa rejected their pretensions, lets see how it continues, and what happens finally with all the rest of the cases that my country has in the justice.
On the other hand, if you defend so strongly the justice, why dont you say a word about those foreign companys that broke our enterprizes?, like i said before, for you, it seems that when the state nationalizes an enterprize, it's a thief that does not respect private property, but you say nothing about what those corporations made with our companys.
Nationalizing an enterprize is not a delit, like it or not, we have right to recover unless an small part of what was sold during last decade, if i were a president i would nationalize the actions that repsol has in ypf, such an important resorce like oil, can't be in foreign hands, only a useless would private it.
Well then you can't expect anyone to invest in your country can you? Why would someone build something just to have it taken away once it is profitable?
Sep 03rd, 2010 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whether the water company is running well or water is cheap is irrelevant The French spent tens of billions in capital projects building a new system in BA based on a very long (40+ yr contract I think) just to have it taken way by a corrupt government.
The ICSID has nothing to do with the bondholders it only has to do with the contracts your government signed that they now refuse to pay.
The bonds are a different issue. The current outstanding bonds are held by 2 very very rich American families. Eventually Argentina will be forced to pay them because they will need to issue bonds in Pounds, Euros, Yen or U$. It is just a matter of time. This is what happens when you try to “renegotiate” (steal) from American families more powerful than Argentina and protected by US law.
FREDBDC:
Sep 03rd, 2010 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I want you to answer me something, what profitability had aerolineas at the moment that it was nationalized?, beside dont be moron, we dont nationalize most foreign enterprizes, we only recovered just a few companys that were sold during last decade, like i told you before, we have right to recover unless an small part of our patrimony, foreign investors dont have any reason to reject to invest in arentina, we have reasonable level of legal security like any other country.
Regarding the cases that my country has in the inetrnational justice, if it considers that my country didn't pay a correspondent sum to those corporations, it will have do do it, the judgements of justice must be respected.
On the other hand, i repeat that it's notable how you defend so strongly the interests of those corporations, arguing that my government is corrupt, however you avoid to say a word about the fact that some of those companys that were nationalized, were broke before by foreign enterprizes, my question is, what kind of moral authority do you have to criticise the corruption of my government, if at the same time, you say nothing about those companys that broke our enterprizes?, accept it or not, with your posture you just show that you are as corrupt as our government, because you are only defending corporative interests, ignoring that some of those companys broke our enterprizes.
Beside, the state must controll strongly, like in europe or the usa, the fucking neoliberal state of the 90, didn't controll anything, and that's why some corporations did whatever they want, and finally some companys broke, for example in 1989, we had more than 49000 rail ways in th whole country, now we have less of 10000, that was thank to absence of controlls by the state during menem's government, in the case of aerolineas, it was broke twice, firstly in 2001, and after in 2008, so, you should inform your self better before criticising, the responsable are the state and the corporations.
You can't blame the company for going bankrupt when their fares/sales prices and wages are set by the government. I think they were deliberately driven to bankruptcy by the government so they could take them over. What don't you understand? This applies to the air, rail, gas, electricity , phones, beef, wheat, almost EVERYTHING that the consumer buys.
Sep 03rd, 2010 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Ks are deliberately driving private businesses into bankruptcy so they can take them over for the “public interest”. I don't understand how this can so complicated for you?
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