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Montevideo, June 26th 2019 - 18:11 UTC
The Brazilian president has decided to postpone the purchase of fighter jets. Read full article
I am not surprised by this turn of events.
Lula's 'deal', its premature announcement, its denial, its confirmation, its back-tracking were all entirely in keeping with a President who had 'lost the plot' and was more interested in headlines and grand-standing than the hard-headedness of *real* governance.
Those who know me know through the media are aware how hard I fought to keep Dilma away from the Presidency (I am old enough to have lived through the years of international terrorism and, knowing her contribution, I was not prepared to give her the benefit of any doubt.
But here we are, with a new President DOING THE RIGHT THINGS.
All may yet turn out for the best.
I will post my personal appraisal once the first 100 days are past!
Silly post, GeoffWard. Lula's preference for the French jets was politically motivated. And so was his backtracking. France's stance toward Iran, its foot-dragging in the EU-Mercosur trade talks, plus the presence of American technology in the French jets, were Lula's motivations for changing his opinion on the Rafales. His hesitance was a thought-out prelude for his successor to change preferences more easily. It had nothing to do with grabbing headlines. Anyway, who are you?
That is one beautiful jet, [Rafale] I'm no expert but I can't quite image why Brazil would opt for a different system.
I see Argentina taking the same route given its history with Dassault, this would increase the number of joint aerial exercises between Argentina and Brazil.
The Rafale is a good jet. I'm still confused as to why they've yet to sell it to any other country.
Suppose it depends if the US will make it difficult for tech transfer due to US tech in the Rafale. The french certanly have given Brazil a good deal with this jet too.
any need fighter jets in the rocket era ?...
Lula's gonna be pissed ! I wonder how much stock he holds at Dassault ?
God, if he did hold anything at Dassault, he would have made the choice for the Rafales himself instead of passing the opportunity to his successor.
Any idea which way they're leaning towards now, Gripen/F-18?
Does the Gripen come with tech transfer? the US don't usually like giving away tech i can see that becoming a problem.
Your Comment2 Forgetit87: You make some good points about the French and the American technology;
and you are obviously very close to ex-President Lula to know both his motivations wrt filibuster, delay and his generosity of spirit to his replacement.
It is the measure of a very different type of politician that Lula structures his departure such that his successor can undo that which he has done – some would admire him and congratulate him for this!
“His hesitance was a thought-out prelude for his successor to change preferences more easily”: I now anticipate Dilma reversing another ‘Lula-Late-Decision’ and her returning a certain Italian murderer and international terrorist to Italy. (You may find this humerous).
No comment on the Lula convictions during the election for electoral malpractice?
No comment on my giving Dilma some slack based on her performance to date?
Or is it really “all too silly”?
Re your posting…….. to quote from Arnie’s Predator: “and who the hell are you?”
Don't need to be close to Lula to know what his motivations were. That the choice for the FX2 program was based not only on technical advantages, but also, and most importantly, on political matters, is something he'd said himself. In 2010 there arose a number of political divergences between France and Brazil. So, since France decided to act in ways that weakened the partnership with Brazil, Lula decided he no longer wanted the jets. He postponed the FX2 decision repeatedly throughout 2010, although at first he said he would make the choice himself before leaving office. Well, that didn't happen. So it was clear his intention regarding the program was to ramble on until the decision no longer rested in his hands.
No comment on the Lula convictions during the election for electoral malpractice?
What does this have to do with the subject at hand?
In your first post, you referred to those who know me know through the media. Perhaps my English isn't good enough to understand properly what that meant, but I got the impression that you're from the press. That's why I'm interested in knowing who you are. The Brazilian media acted in a blatantly partisan manner throughout the election season so as to give a much more positive coverage to José Serra. That behavior matches your assertion that you fought to keep Dilma away from the Presidency.
”Those who know me through the media are aware how hard I fought to keep Dilma away from the Presidency”
Well…. As I don’t know you (I don’t know many famous people)…. I had to”Google” you.
I found some of your comments against Djhilma at the BBC site.
Most of them were deleted by the Editor because they “infringed the rules”…………..
You can relaxin here........
As long as you criticize, demean or/and insult Cuba, Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, Brazil, Argentina or any other humanist,progressive, social-democrat, leftist, socialist, communist , subversive, terrorist, satanist or whatever to the left of the conservative right, you will be OK in here.
The editor will luuuv you :-)
I found the following post by GW at the BBC website:
”I am concerned for the future of the Continent if Brazil, on 31st October, swings further to the revolutionary Left through the election of the ex-terrorist Dilma Rousseff of the Workers Party (PT). Her known links with the FARC, and the huge econo-political base that Brazil represents, jointly provide the fuse for a very, very big powder-keg.”
I'd like to know of Dilma's ties with the FARCs. Even if information on this doesn't prove accurate, it will certainly sound amusing.
But seriously Geoff, do you work for some media outlet?
Howdo you dare to doubt about the veracity of GW's info?
MercoPress, the Independent South-Atlantic News Agency says he's right.
Nice Picture of Serra on the link.....
Extreme Right ;-)
@Think. To be fair to Mercopress, they didn't seem to be be implying that Serra's accusation was right. At least the caption to the picture reads that Serra's campaign was based on mud-slinging, which is very much correct.
I think you'll like this pic even better:
Forgetit87 @ 14. To be fair to you and Mercopress, there was one hell of a lot of political mud to sling at Dilma's sponsoring party/parties, and only a small dollop of it actually flew across the airwaves and hit the target - which IS part of the politico-electoral process.
What should NOT be part of the process were the PT 'missiles' which literally did part Serra's hair and resulted in curtailed campaigning and a hospital visit.
But the path to developed status is a rocky path indeed (At least it was not a Sharia stoning, for which we should be thankful - and should congratulate Dilma for contradicting her Iran-loving mentor).
I'd very much like to hear what the media could've said of Dilma that would've hurt her presidential aspirations. If the Brazilian press could have slinged more than a drop of mud against Dilma and persons involved in her campaign, it'd have done it. Considering that the most powerful printed press outlet, Folha de São Paulo, was not above publishing in 2009 forged documents on Dilma's involvement in the guerrilha fight, it's difficult to believe that the Brazilian media chose to spare her by not publishing truths that could hurt her campaign once the election season had begun. It wasn't at all like this. The press favored Serra's through all of the campaign, a fact that was noted even in international press accounts of the campaing season. Anti-leftist press bias is an old thing in Brazil; it goes back to the Vargas years and has continued unabated till these days.
This article by reuters - http://tinyurl.com/4g825ys
- supports my point. A relevant quotation: It is unquestionable, said James Green, a Latin America professor at Brown University who has followed the campaign. An event will take place and it will be spun in a way that is clearly designed to favor Serra's candidacy and diminish Dilma's candidacy.
As for the PT missiles, are you referring to that infamous episode in which Serra pretended being hit in the head by some heavy object after a PT activist had thrown a paper ball against his head?
And again: do you work for the media or not?
Can we safely assume then that you, a poster:
”OLD ENOUGH TO HAVE LIVED THROUGH THE YEARS OF INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM…………”
Are not longer:
”CONCERNED FOR THE FUTURE OF THE CONTINENT IF BRAZIL ON THE 31st OCTOBER SWINGS FURTHER TO THE REVOLUTIONARY LEFT THROUGH THE ELECTION OF THE EX-TERRORIST DILMA ROUSSEFF OF THE WORKERS PARTY (PT). HER KNOWN LINKS WITH THE F.A.R.C. AND ………” etc. etc. etc.?
This old ”Fox News” innuendo style of yours is quite boooring………………
Forgetit87 .... i agree with you !
GeoffWard ......you don't speak as if a commentator !
Wow! A Fox News Non-Comentator! You certainly are having trouble pigeon-holing me!
I post it as I see it, and I see it from inside the country, following a variety of local & national news outlets daily. Hence my giving Dilma space to become a president rather than a puppet of a clown.
My partner was one who left the country during and arguably because of the military dictatorship; my comment on international terrorism and resistance are not totally uninformed, either within Europe or here in Brasil.
The style of your innuendos is easily classifiable………: Fox News Style.
Want an example?........At post No.16 you say:
”What should NOT be part of the process were the PT 'missiles' which literally did part Serra's hair and resulted in curtailed campaigning and a hospital visit.”
“PT missiles”?..... “missiles”??....... that ”missile” was as a paper ball!
Everybody in Brazil knows that…. …………………........A PAPER BALL !!
“Which literally did part Serra’s hair”…… Serra’s Hair? ……. What HAIR ?
You are clearly well informed BUT you obviously post it “as you see it”
That’s why you have to use the Fox News Innuendo Style against Djhilma.
You don’t have anything else……..
Does the Gripen come with tech transfer?
Zethee, answer is yes. Matter of fact, the Swedes want Brazil to be involved in their project of the new Gripen, but so want the French. The US also, but have a bad reputation of not honoring their promises, what is stupid, in my opinion.
GeoffWard is a foreigner and an expert in being in socialist vs conservative kool aid fight. A typical brain dead yankee who think to know it all.
But, at least he is not an insufferable insulting Rooinek as fredbdc.......:-)
Fido; GeoffWard is a foreigner and an expert in being in socialist vs conservative kool aid fight. A typical brain dead yankee who think to know it all.
First sentence: Two right, one wrong; don't know what Kool Aid is but it sounds refreshing.
Last sentence - wrong on all five points.
School report should read Must try harder.
Do I come across you in The Economist blogs? You are not unknowledgeable, just a bit grumpy at times.
But a Rooinek (englishman) he is.......
A mighty thirsty one that doesn't drink Kool Aid!
why does any of this matter to you M Think? are you having some time off as the elder statesman of the anti-Falkland brigade?
don't get too involved with all this, we would miss crossing swords with you.
be careful GeoffWard that you don't get cyberstalked
Because, Cher Isolde, the progressive political movement in South-America has a big place in my heart.
Because, Cher Isolde, I dislike those insinuating foxy anglo besserwissers and their outdated, cold warish tunnel vision.
Because, Cher Isolde, my vane hope is that people would pause for a second and Think.
vain, Cher Think, a vane is part of a windmill or pump.
don't take any notice of those besserwissers, they know nothing
-btw what is theiroutdated, cold warish tunnel vision
Vain it is…. indeed……………….
The Latin roots of that word betrayed me……….
Their “outdated, cold warish tunnel vision” is that us ”Lefties”, wearing our horned helmets, will disembark from our longships on a cold moonless night at your shore and burn your farm, marry your sheep and roast your women.
Something like that...:-)
The Brazilians should buy the Gripen. Its a much better fighter than anything Dassault can offer. IMHO.
Haven't read this story yet but Think your comment at (11) made me laugh out loud. You must have some British blood in you to come out with that wit. nice one!
Not a drop, Lad.
My lineage is untainted!
But, conceivably, some osmotic contamination may have occurred to a few of my ancestors which primal activity during long periods of the last 12 centuries was the expeditive shattering of British skulls……..
It seems that the Grippen, together with its affordable AEW aircraft (name escapes me now), would be an ideal platform for Brazil ... which seems extremely unlikely to face any form of significant air attack in the next 100 years. Both the Rafale and the Hornet seems to be a bit like overkill. Seems that only Venezuela could potentially offer any significant threat with their Russian jets ... but by that time I suppose that most of them will have crashed or otherwise become unserviceable, and what would be left would easily be diabled/destroyed on the ground by covert attack or RPV weapons, if required.
Fighter contest has been re-opened people, keep up! especially Think with your skull bashing!
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