MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Unilateral Fact II
Mr. Andres Cisneros’s reply to the article “Unilateral Facts” by Dr. Graham Pascoe and myself last Sunday in the BA Herald, (Jan 21st and Feb 6th in MP), does not answer our points adequately. Our article was specifically about Argentina’s hypocrisy in using UN Resolution 31/49 to criticise Britain’s acts as “unilateral”. Instead he launches a general anti-British diatribe, and makes a number of errors. The worst are as follows. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesA masterly response; well done.
Feb 12th, 2011 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Agreed, let's see if Cisneros actually addreses the issues this time.
Feb 12th, 2011 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.Once again if you believe this, Argentina again fluxed it all up.
Feb 12th, 2011 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0its all her fault , everybody on the planet knows she fluxed it all up, all except Argentina that is. according to her she has done nothing wrong, and its all the fault of the British, it takes a brave man to say he is wrong, and a cowardly country to deny it all .
Nicely done ... :-)
Feb 12th, 2011 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Excellent article. Shows how a rebuttal should be done: deals with every point precisely and accurately. Not at all like the “rebuttal” from Cisneros.
Feb 12th, 2011 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very quiet from the usual Argentine posters though. Although what money on “I” shortly posting barely understandable nonsense about a company with a Royal Charter, illegal aliens, pirates and a very naughty Mr Clifton! Or “Think” trying to argue that black is white, or at least a shade of grey!
“While we’re at it, we could submit this idea to Messrs. Pepper and Pascoe but it is by no means certain that they would accept.”
Feb 12th, 2011 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So much for that idea.
Sadly though I doubt if either Cisneros nor our Argentine contributors here will respond specifically - one thing they all fail on is factual reality - rhetoric - the score is always 10 out of 10.
Feb 12th, 2011 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All Argentinians should read the above article and educate themselves.
Feb 12th, 2011 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chuckle chuckle.
I should have “copyrighted” my “Chuckle Chuckle”…….
Feb 12th, 2011 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyhow… hereby some replies to this article ;-)
”Bit angry isn't he, one could categorise that as a rant, noticably long on rhetoric but short on facts. As well as repeating the same falsehood” (JKU)
”It's the old problem with the Falklands debate, there is no middle ground that is accepatable to all (or in fact any) of the parties involved.” (WIB)
”That’s quite a long way of effectively say he disagreed with Mr. Cisneros”(RCR)
”The article appears not to deal at all with any facts, aside from repeating the distorted British view of events in 1833.” (PIO)
”This article is short on facts, long on rhetoric, repeating the standard official Argentine propaganda, pure & simple” (DOM)
”Got up to the bit about ”If Argentina had won and..................forgotten already.....Forgive me but what a load of British tosh!” (BSE)
”Not even worth reading-complete bunkum” (ISO)
”This is a never ending story. What came first the chicken or the egg?” (ATK)
”Be quiet, or you'll get a good spanking & get sent to bed with no dinner.” (ISO)
”The reply to Mr. Cisneros article is just a better presented version of the usual British rubbish they spout out.!” (MOF)
“Pinky and Perky” Haha!” (ZET)
”Nice to see someone questioning Mr Peppers writing. He's not exactly Mr Objective is he...” (WRD)
”178 years of Colonial mentality answers the question of why Britain claims the Malvinas Islands are theirs, but in 65 years of the UN International Court of Justice, Britain has never had the courage of its convictions to test its claim in open scrutiny” (DOM)
”A simple land grab with the objective of securing a chunk of Antarica, to which they also have no claim.” (RHY)
Beautifully done as always.
Feb 12th, 2011 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bloody hell, Think! You've clearly got far too much time on your hands! Although, I must admit, it made me laugh!
Feb 12th, 2011 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately, your post is about as long on truth as Snr Cisneros' “rebuttal” was a rebuttal. Mr Pepper deals with the “rebuttal” properly and directly. The article is full of facts and doesn't avoid the points that Snr Cisneros made.
How's about you try the same approach sometime?!
Nicely put.
Feb 12th, 2011 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ Argentine companies could still be involved in the Falklands oil industry now..”
Feb 12th, 2011 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What for, do they need any help to pump water?
”So Britain did not threaten “all the Argentine inhabitants(ONLY SOME OF THEM :-))), women and children included”. In fact, Captain Onslow was very anxious that the civilians should stay, so that the gauchos could continue hunting the wild cattle and supplying fresh beef “...to feed these useless pirates!
”Onslow only expelled the Argentine garrison of 26 men (with 11 women and 8 children, who were never in any danger)...” and kept some to feed them.
Well well, so he admits that the Argentinians were expelled in 1833!
(11) PomInOz
Feb 12th, 2011 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why should I?
Using one of the British favorite words….: Irrelevant……
Britain has always “good fabricated arguments” and “excellent semantic trickery porkies” to excuse them being the “colonial baddies”.
Be it Sudan, India, Zanzibar, China, Rhodesia, Australia, Belize, Suez, Brunei, Nigeria, Iraq, Chagos or the Falklands….................
Why should you what, Think? Try dealing with facts directly and properly? And not posting rubbish that has no relevance whatsoever to the issues in question?
Feb 12th, 2011 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know? But perhaps because not doing so puts you in the same league as some other Argentine posters on here!
after reading this report seems to me that Argentina has being under illegal british occupation since 1807.
Feb 12th, 2011 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0or could it be that we are only being told one side tory ??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Vernet
what fallows the Argentine account of this same events, do to distance and the primitive form of commuication at the time some details might differ.
“A proclamation naming Vernet as Governor was issued by the Government in Buenos Aires in 1829”
”The appointment of Vernet was challenged by the British consul in Buenos Aires, who restated the previous British claim to the Islands. Vernet had sought British permission before landing on the Falkland Islands (in 1826 and again in 1828) and agreed to provide regular reports to the British consulate. In response to the announcement of his appointment as Governor, Vernet stressed to the British that his interests were purely commercial.“
”Vernet was granted a monopoly on seal hunting and one of his first acts was to curb seal hunting on the Islands by others, to conserve the seal population for his own dealings. In 1831, Vernet seized the American ship, Harriet, for breaking his restrictions on seal hunting.”
in this part of history taken from a web page not too friendly to the Argentine accont of the event, we are told 3 important things, that regardless of british rule Governor Luis Vernet followed every step to meet international laws and costumes, including but not limited to the rights to detain, remove, or otherways report any illegal fishing in Malvinas Argentina.
then when the other brits came on the lexignton to futher harras Argentina, there was little chance Argentina woud go to war with both USA and UK. 1982 was just a reminder of our claims to Malvinas Argentina and what we are capable of doing for them, and since we tryed at in UN and UK doesn't want to end the illegal occpation in good terms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Vernet
I: There was no international laws in that day and age unless the law was signed by both nations. The UN is a recent development
Feb 12th, 2011 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“brits came on the lexignton to futher harras Argentina, there was little chance Argentina woud go to war with both USA and UK”
This is the part where you go off the deepend.
The “brits” didn't come on the lexignton. And there was threat or mention of the USA and UK both going to war with Argentina.
But it is very funny to see that you've finally read the wiki page you've been pasting for weeks.... lmao.
“The “brits” didn't come on the lexignton. And there was threat or mention of the USA and UK both going to war with Argentina. ”
Feb 12th, 2011 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No threat*
15 She can't help herself. Mangling the truth and twisting facts is a way of life in Gaucho land. Called to account they get all emotional and storm off in a sulk.
Feb 12th, 2011 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and since 1833 she has been british has she not .
Feb 12th, 2011 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(15) PomInOz
Feb 12th, 2011 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Facts”???
What “facts” are you talking about???
Just read the first lines of this P&P’s article:
**”If Argentina had won, Junta members would not have been tried for anything, and so would have got away with their crimes against humanity too.
They would have been national heroes, and would probably have gone on to settle the Beagle Channel dispute with Chile by force – as they tried to do over Christmas 1978, after an international court of arbitration had decided the dispute in Chile’s favour.”**
Are the above “facts” ???
Do Pascoe and Pepper own a crystal ball or a time machine???
Or just a generous portion of British ethnocentric and haughty mentality???
P&P’s articles and documentation are requested and paid by the British government.
They are as partisan and biased as any Argentinean article or documentation.
They are certainly not “Factual”.
Think, what a complete load of crap.
Feb 12th, 2011 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If argentina would have won they would have been national heroes. And they would not have been tried for loosing the conflict.
Two facts in the very paragraph you quoted. Beagle Channel, ofcourse is his opinion.
He pointed out many facts in his first article. Then Andrés responds with a wall of relevant rhetoric with one fact half way through and filled completely with inaccuracies from start to finish.
Peter Pepper has just proved him wrong here in many ways.
Mr Pepper ;
Feb 12th, 2011 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We read your painful article ..you say that ,
You're often in Argentina,where you have studied in Falkland dispute for 12 years now,you have discussed Falkland's History extensively with major figures from the Malvinas Lobby in Buenos Aires....Ok !
Would you clarify us about these strenuous names like
Harold (Boyd)Wilkshire----,----Harrison Johnston---,---
Dwight L.Murphy---,----Mick Clark---.....in Malvinas History ?
We'll be looking forward to wait your reply article ! Thanks.
Rgrds -- Ed
No oil!! jajajaj
Feb 12th, 2011 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If argentina would have won they would have been national heroes. And they would not have been tried for loosing the conflict.”
Feb 12th, 2011 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The junta caused unemployment in Argentina by purposelly destroying the industries so as to disband urban workers' unions. They also killed over 28,000 Argentines - theirs was the most violent military dictatorship in South America. The junta had many issues with the civil society. A hypothetical victory over the UK would at most work as palliative to reduce social tensions. Unless you “own a crystal ball or a time machine”, as Think said, you don't what you're talking about.
Oh dear, its not only the facts she's getting in a twist this evening.
Feb 12th, 2011 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chuckle chuckle.
TWIMC
Feb 12th, 2011 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe the Brits, leaded by those two“magnificent historians, Pepper & Pascoe will take all the credit for OUR democratization and liberation process that swept through Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Brazil, Paraguay, Bolivia, Peru, Ecuador and Colombia during the 80’s?
They certainly have a great deal of responsibility for the preceding regimes …………
I thought this government was against weapons and imperialism of the USA.
Feb 12th, 2011 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Military aircraft C-17 Globemaster III, registration 77187, generated a shock doors inside the government. The aircraft, belonging to the United States Air Force, late yesterday in Ezeiza for alleged irregularities, he brought weapons to carry out training exercises with the Federal Police, funded by Washington.”
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lanacion.com.ar%2F1349328-el-avion-de-eeuu-que-incomodo-al-gobierno
I will vote for Cristina de Kirchner, definitely. Because of her honesty, the coherence of her incoherence, her braveness and patriotism. When I see this I comprehend that there's no sense in posting comments about Malvinas Argentinas, because of the level of credibility of Cristina de Kirchner. Who would believe in the good intentions of this government? Who can take us seriously with a government like this? It's frustrating, this government is one lie after another. Las Malvinas son Argentinas, pero son un sueño muy lejano que se va a hacer realidad sólo cuando en nuestro país sea presidente un hombre o mujer que ame de verdad a nuestro país en lugar de entregarlo como hace Cristina de Kirchner. Cristina, you keep mating with the USA, and you'll see what happens, and all of you kirchnerist losers and traitors.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lanacion.com.ar%2F1349328-el-avion-de-eeuu-que-incomodo-al-gobierno
“Colonial baddies”? What happened to the indigenous tribes of South America and Mexico when the Spanish “Colonisers” arrived? Which South American Nation became a haven for fleeing Nazis at the conclusion of WW2?. The point being that you can pick at any country's historical scabs and find something unpleasant, but that is called history and as long as people are willing and able to learn from it, it becomes a part of the evolutionary process, painful though it may have been. (Often crassly stupid, too)
Feb 12th, 2011 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yup- as I said at the start - yet more rhetoric and diversions - going down the list point by point with nonrhetoric factual answers ? - not a chance.
Feb 12th, 2011 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They probably did better under Britain than they would have done under Argentina.
Feb 12th, 2011 - 10:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has misrepresented the facts of 1833 for decades, misleading the United Nations and many individual countries. By pretending that Britain expelled an Argentine
their you go guilty as charged, as they say ?
25 Forgetit87:
Feb 12th, 2011 - 11:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You seem to have read what i said....And then replied with something completely different from anything i mentioned.
My quote:
“If argentina would have won they would have been national heroes. And they would not have been tried for loosing the conflict.”
Nothing to do with the government, the 28,000 dead. the unions disbanding or civil society.
If the UK had been beaten by the 10,000 troops on the islands they would have came home as heroes... and none of the 10,000 troops would have gone on trial for loosing the war...for obvious reasons(winning the war).
Nothing i said requires a crystal ball.
I mean, i could be wrong. but the alternative is quite amusing. Let's go through it, shall we?
Hypothetically, Argentina wins. The troops come home after freeing the islands the nation loves so much....Only to be booed and swore at in the street..Then, shock of horrors...the Argentinian government decides it's going to put on trial it's military commanders for loosing and mismanaging the war that they had only just won!
Don't be an idiot.
@Zethe
Feb 13th, 2011 - 12:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0I will not be discussing this for very long. Firstly, because I'm not a great connaisseur of this war's history; and also because, from my debates with you, I know that you're a master in spinning arguments.
But see this again:
“If Argentina had won, Junta members would not have been tried for anything, and so would have got away with their crimes against humanity too.”
No one's talking about trying low-ranking officials for having lost the war. This is about the the Argentine dictatorship's supreme authority, the military junta. As I said before, the junta had many problems with the civil society. The possibility that it would have been ousted by popular revolt, even with an Argentine victory over the UK, was therefore high. No one can pretend to know that things would have been permanently rosier for the junta if only it had managed to annexate the FI to Argentine mainland. Their argument therefore is moot. They're saying that a victory would have turned the junta members nation into national heroes and that, therefore, this would have saved them from judicial inspection regarding their actions as the country's leaders, and perhaps even from being deposed. For one to say this - yes, nothing less than a crystal ball is required.
My 2 cents.
Xbrain and think-less , your posts really crack me up, its real politician talk, you avoid the topics, give diversionary 'facts' , often from poor web links like wikipedia, i can really see a future for you both as kirchner ministers prattling away utter fabrication at the UN general assembly,
Feb 13th, 2011 - 12:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0well done for the effort though, talking crap dressed as gold is hard work.
I realy dont know why argentina is so wind up over the falklands,
Feb 13th, 2011 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0we dont get all this trouble from the french over the channel islands,
and they are a lot closer [under 10 miles] to france than to us.
if the french can live with brits under ten miles away, why cant you lot stop moaning over the brits over 300 miles away, we are not interfearing with you [are we] you are the worlds 8th largest country, dont you think you have to much land already, to pinch a tiny little island from hard working and peacefull islanders.
Briton, you should see the areas they are trying to claim, they argue a sub-sea ridge following a continental margain, past the Falklands, South Georgie, all the way to the Antarctic Peninsula and a massive wedge of the Antarctic continent....all thiers according to them, they are utterly bonkers
Feb 13th, 2011 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0And they have the cheek to call us pirates
Feb 13th, 2011 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yup ... good response from Mr. Pepper.
Feb 13th, 2011 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0No serious challenge in the posts above.
I too would be interested in the effects of Mr. Pepper's debates with his Argentine opposite numbers, but I doubt he could tell without seeking their permission first. Pity, I'd like to see a good historical response ... or even a good legal one.
Still, never mind. Good morning all, can I assume without checking that the Falkland Islands have not changed their status over night? I can! Wonderful ... time for tea :-)
The hell with debate. What Argentina needs to do is invade again, but this time well prepared, and not alone. 200 Exocets should do it, plus a hellish amount of stand off bombs to pound the crap out of your base.. nothing fancy. Air power? The upgraded Super Etendard SEM to deliver the Exocets, Fightinghawks for support, and I'm sure our good friend Hugo Chavez is just itching to try his Sukhois, along with everything else. Brazil will help too I'm sure, Chile probably wouldn't, but they won't help you this time.
Feb 13th, 2011 - 12:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0With your defense cuts you won't even have a fleet to deploy, sure as hell no aircraft carriers... and if you do, 5 Exocets all at once should do it.
It's not that it's not possible, there's just no political will power.
All this stupid talk, back and forth... back and forth. Really... who gives a shit? Who cares what you think?
Martian - you are more of a realist than I thought. But Argentina has tried twice before without success and now your armed forces are seriously underfunded. It's not just the lack of political will it's also the lack of money ... besides, politicians may not be keen on upgrading your military as they have a history of developing political aspirations.
Feb 13th, 2011 - 12:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Probably why they are kept short of cash!
Besides, the islands are rather better defended than they were on the two previous occassions .. why do you think we keep testing the missiles?
blah blab blah.. I'm sick of you people, sick of us Argentines as well
Feb 13th, 2011 - 01:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0You know what? I would be truly pissed if we did recover Malvinas through peaceful means rather than by military force, and I don't think I'm alone on this... if we were honest with ourselves and would admit that we want you all dead, we would quit wasting our time debating with you clowns.
41 Martin_Fierro
Feb 13th, 2011 - 01:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well why don't you admit it then, quit wasting time and just piss off, you poisonous little reptile?
wow Martin, you need to get laid!
Feb 13th, 2011 - 02:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for your forces, a single fully armed Typhoon is more than anything the argie or navy air force can muster. Brazil help you invade? what planet are you on??
@41
Feb 13th, 2011 - 02:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0At last we get an honest opinion from an Argentinian.......honesty from an RG.....well well......who would have thought that could ever happen. Thanks for that Martin. It's refreshing to see at least one of you admit what wankers you (all) are.
OTOH:
“if we were honest with ourselves and would admit that we want you all dead, we would quit wasting our time debating with you clowns.”
well...you've got a point there too, bye then Martin, you'll not be missed.
Ah yes...and regarding your ambition to colonise the Falklands by military force.....Bring in on Argentina if you dare (which of course you wont, still smarting from last time aren't you?...remember 1982, you were well prepared then and should have easily beaten off the British task force, but instead you surrendered ASAP......cowards)
now now West , lets not play his game, i appreciate his honesty, but i really think he's due his medicine, and giving mentally retarded patients internet access is a new move towards public freedom in Argentina, praise be to the fair and honest Argentinean state....can't believe i even typed that last bit !
Feb 13th, 2011 - 02:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Martin_Fierro:
Feb 13th, 2011 - 02:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder how well the upgraded Super Etendard's take off after a tomahawk has made a large hole in the runway or how they launch there Exocets from the ground over 250 miles away.
Honestly, Martin. Argentina had it's chance in 82. Currently it would just be embarrasing the capabilities difference between our armed forces now are massive.
Unless argentina threw everything she had at the islands i seriously doubt any landing ships would land on the islands. The ships would be sitting ducks for the typhoons with anti ship missiles backed up with land based radar.
Even then you would only have 48 hours to take the base which is fully stocked with aircraft heavy artillery possibly tanks(goodluck taking down a challanger 2, the tank is a beast.) and other heavy equipment and 2000 men before the base is backed up with thousands of other troops on rapid deployment.
I don't know if they have any apaches there, they would cause you no end of problems.
It's just not really possible with what you have.
you forgot about Astute SSN's , they are the real 9 iron in the bag! as the SSN's were in the 82 war, if i was going to invade somwhere, even if they were populated by pygmy moles with sharpened mango spears, if there was an SSN in the waters, id just give up there and then.
Feb 13th, 2011 - 02:53 am - Link - Report abuse 021, Think. Facts, what facts? Just read the very first line of the article, “Those responsible for the 1982 war were not tried for starting it, but for losing it. The charge was mismanagement.”
Feb 13th, 2011 - 03:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well, there's a fact, directly addressing and rebutting an assertion made by Snr Cisneros. The assertion made by Snr Cisneros, that Argentines have offered self-criticism for the 1982 invasion and put those responsible on trial, trying to make out as though you Argentines are apologetic to the UK and the Falkland Islanders, is crass and disrespectful and was such a silly thing to make too. So easily disproved.
On the other hand, the assertions/conjecture (call it what you like) that Mr Pepper makes in the following few lines are not silly or crass, but are what any ordinary person, with a modicum of common sense, would agree with, knowing the character and history of the Argentine junta.
Thereafter, it's facts all the way in the article. Mr Pepper even takes the time to deal, once again, with Cisneros' and Argentina's lies about the events of 1833, even though the events of 1833 aren't relevant to the original article by Messrs Pepper & Pascoe.
That's how you do a rebuttal. No evasion, misdirection, half-truths or downright lies. Unlike Messrs Cisneros & Think!
Amen to that brother!
Feb 13th, 2011 - 03:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh! the same rubbish over and over again...
Feb 13th, 2011 - 04:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really someone cares about what Red hot Chilli Pepper says?
And yes we has things to regrets one is that the idiots in 1994 forgot to include another claim for England, Scotland and Wales in the constitution.
I will recommend to “Pascoe and chilli Peper” to go to some branch of Endemol and see if they can enter into any “Big Brother reality show”.
They will get more fame than writing pointless articles of propaganda.
what are you babbling about? lol
Feb 13th, 2011 - 04:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's an Argentine trait to babble in the face of reasoned argument ....:-)
Feb 13th, 2011 - 05:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0“reasoned argument “?
Feb 13th, 2011 - 06:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is nothing reasoned or reasonable.
The fact is that one of our overseas territories was illegally occupied by the British and we want the territory back plus compensations.
No much to say
What overseas territory did Argentina own that was illegally occupied?
Feb 13th, 2011 - 07:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not the Falkland islands, because those were an overseas territory of Britain that was disputed for a while by Spain .. Argentina was NEVER a claimant ... and still isn't!
Enough said!
(48) PomInOz
Feb 13th, 2011 - 07:11 am - Link - Report abuse 01) Mr. Cisneros wrote:
”Placing those responsible on trial”
Well…………… that’s a FACT.
He didn’t even hinted what the charges were.
All the rest are your own wishful thinking, assertions or conjectures but no FACTS.
2) Mr. Cisneros wrote:
“We Argentines have long offered self-criticism for those errors.”
Well…………… that’s a FACT.
“President Nestor Kirchner said in 2006: Argentina's war with Britain over the Falkland Islands was a crime committed by a cowardly military dictatorship, but the South American country will never abandon its claim to sovereignty of the Islands”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/invading-the-falkland-islands-was-a-cowardly-act-says-argentine-president-472543.html
All the rest are your own wishful thinking, assertions or conjectures but no FACTS.
3) You write:
”trying to make out as though you Argentines are apologetic to the UK and the Falkland Islanders is…….”
”the assertions/conjecture that Mr Pepper makes in the following few lines are not silly or crass, but are what any ordinary person, with a modicum of common sense, would agree with, knowing the character and history of the Argentine junta.”
Well those are all your wishful thinking, assertions or conjectures but not, in any way, FACTS nor what Mr Cisneros factually said…………….
4) And to finish:
The expulsion of 56 Argentinean men, women and children from Malvinas in 1833.
Well……………….. that’s a FACT.
The list with their names is freely available on Internet, has been posted in here several times and is accepted as a valid historical document by BOTH SIDES.
If they were military personnel, government employees, civilians, criminals, gay or whatever; is irrelevant.
The 1833 FACT is and remains that 56 Argentinean Citizens where expulsed from the Islands.
All the rest, written exclusively by the British, could very well be evasions, misdirections, half-truths or downright lies.
this article can be reprinted 100 times and it would still be incorrect without the Argentine side of it, I don't see how any illegal aliens can be treated better then others, I would deport all this illegal aliens back home to UK.
Feb 13th, 2011 - 08:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBEi/en/Military_of_the_Falkland_Islands
www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/darwin_clifton.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3388670&c=AME&s=SEA
“ ... And to finish: The expulsion of 56 Argentinean men, women and children from Malvinas in 1833. Well……………….. that’s a FACT. The list with their names is freely available on Internet, has been posted in here several times and is accepted as a valid historical document by BOTH SIDES....”
Feb 13th, 2011 - 08:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really!? A FACT!
I Think NOT Think!
Where is that list with their names Think ..... you are after all a cyber stalker so the web site should be easily available to you ... where?
” ... Onslow only expelled the Argentine garrison of 26 men (with 11 women and 8 children, who were never in any danger) and the ship that had brought them. They had left Buenos Aires in late September 1832, provoking a diplomatic protest by Henry Fox, the British minister there. They arrived in the Falklands on 6 October 1832 and left again on 4 January 1833. So the garrison had been there less than three months, and in that time it had mutinied, murdered its commanding officer, plundered ...”
26 + 11 + 8 = 45 - 1 (murdered) = 44
” ... If they were military personnel, government employees, civilians, criminals, gay or whatever; is irrelevant ...
Oh no, Think ... never irrelevant. What they were is important because Vernett's settlers were not amongst them, not more than a few anyway! What they were, were trespassers. A garrison of trespassers from BA .... who, it was suggested, should leave. And they made the wise choice! The majority of Vernett's settlers remained ... FACT!!
Theres no point trying to discuss reality with these people mate, 'Think' will just dance around the topic, dressing up shit as gold and 'I' will just keep plastering weak internet links as his evidence.
Feb 13th, 2011 - 09:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Bottom line is The islands were never Argie, as Argie didnt even exist as a country at the time, just squabbling states.
If Spain wants to argue over thier claims, id be more inclined to listen, not some whining 3rd world latin american despotic country who is just living in Brazil's shadow.
55 Think, I know that it is very dfficult for you to stay on topic, particularly when the facts/assertions/conjecture doesn't agree with your own point of view, but this is exactly the point that I was trying to make to you.
Feb 13th, 2011 - 09:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Snr Cisneros did not deal with the points that Messrs Pepper & Pascoe raised in their original article, whereas Mr Pepper deals directly and properly with each one of the points that Snr Cisneros made in his off-topic article that was supposed to be a rebuttal of the original article.
As on this website, Argentine “facts” are dealt with head-on by the the pro-Falklands posters, whereas British “facts” are dodged by the pro-Malvinas posters.
If Argentina really thought that its claim was so strong, then why all the evasiveness? Why, as Y Draig Goch puts it so well, do you need to try to dress shit up as gold if your claim to sovereignty is so strong? Why, when it comes down to it, won't you take your case to the ICJ?
The Brits are good to make fake stories and history.
Feb 13th, 2011 - 09:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0They say that have more than 2000 years as British figure out.
What ca n you expect?
Just rubbish and lies.
2000 years as Britons actually, anyway if you want to get technical, the 'Britons' is a term allocated to natives of the Uk mainland since the Iberians arrived in around 3000 BC. British, a different term came when England, Scotland and Wales were united in the 16th centuary. However, Argentinean natives were soon pretty much wiped out when the Spanish arrived in numbers in the 1800's.
Feb 13th, 2011 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0So whats these lies?
DIM - elsewhere I referred to the people of our islands as being able to trace their history back 2000 years ... I didn't actually use the term 'British' but then you know that. Typical Argentine behaviour it would seem is to avoid dealing with what was actually said or done, but to adopt a revisionist view and respond to what you'd have prefered was said or done.
Feb 13th, 2011 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0No rubbish ... no lies. If you had ANY cojones you would push your government into taking their version of history to the ICJ. But you don't have any, and nor do they.
Argentina has never had any valid claim to the Falkland islands.
Argentina will never own the Falkland islands.
Nothing you can do ..... :-)
Think shows much distaste for our removal of the Argentinian garrison coming 200 years ago.... Yet supports the removal of the population there today, in this day and age.
Feb 13th, 2011 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0(57) Hoyt
Feb 13th, 2011 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0You say:
”26 + 11 + 8 = 45 - 1 (murdered) = 44”
I say:
Let's say 44 then………….
The 1833 FACT is and remains that 44 Argentinean citizens where expulsed from the Islands.
Happy now?
You say:
”Where is that list with their names Think ..... you are after all a cyber stalker so the web site should be easily available to you ... where?.....”
I say:
Here it is
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Soldiers_and_Civilians_who_left_Port_Louis
(59) PomInOz
What is difficult for me is trying to communicate to a person that interprets the British or his own “assertions/conjectures” about the past and even the future as “facts”.
About the ICJ…
As I have said many times already……………
Argentina will, when the time and circumstances are right, take the Malvinas Issue to the ICJ.
In the meantime we are dealing with the “irritation moment” of an obvious British plan for resource grabbing in the South-Atlantic.
That British plan has backfired in your own face and is quite functional in bringing together the whole of South-America against an easily identifiable common opponent.
41
Feb 13th, 2011 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Sick of you people, sick of us Argentines as well” - You must be Marty no Mates
43
“Wow Martin you need to get laid” - Think your right there, perhaps he could call that lonely old implanted Patagonian lady when she's tending her goats and talking dirty.
Chuckle chuckle.
Think - the 44 are irrelevant ... it's the ones who stayed that are relevant !
Feb 13th, 2011 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ ... That British plan has backfired in your own face ...”
How?
“ .. Argentina will, when the time and circumstances are right, take the Malvinas Issue to the ICJ...”
I look forward to that day, although I doubt that I'll live to see it.
There was no such thing as Argentine citizenship in 1833 Think... wrong again.
Feb 13th, 2011 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falklands were never Argentine territory. Face it and get over it!
64 Think, so you reckon that Argentina delaying taking its case to the ICJ is the sensible thing to do, do you? Argentina's case is based on events that happened nearly 200 years ago. If its case isn't already fatally hopeless, delaying only makes it more, not less, hopeless (if that is possible!). The longer a people enjoy their own distinct and uninterrupted administration of a territory, the less chance there is that any court will interfere with their right to continue to enjoy their own distinct administration.
Feb 13th, 2011 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If I were your Government, I'd get a new lawyer!
(66) Hoyt
Feb 13th, 2011 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Next nail in the coffin is coming pretty soon, lad...........
And don’t be pessimistic….
You're still young and have many years left to see all the wonderful things the near future will offer :-)
Thanks for the link Think - I noted in particular the following -
Feb 13th, 2011 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0” ... Individuos de la Isla (no pertenecientes a la Comandancia militar):
Joaquín Acuña, su mujer Juana
Mateo González, su mujer Marica ...”
So, only 4 people not connected to the 'military' ... thanks Think, makes the point nicely :-)
As for the ICJ, when/if the question ever gets there it'll be along the lines of - “ Do the Falkland Islanders have the right to Self Determination”? - and the history will be largely irrelevant!
Its promises to do this, threats to do that.
Feb 13th, 2011 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its all hot Hispanic air.
Think, Where is all this S American solidarity you often refer to? And the British grabbing oil?- (if any of course).
Feb 13th, 2011 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can you please answer Yes or No - Do you understand the difference between the FACT - that all licensing is done and controlled- and any revenue will accrue to the Islands Govt?- and the FICTION created by your Govt that licenses are issued by London and they will get the royalties(if any).
Please also list the Practical and Factual measures taked by other S American Nations against us?
Practical and Factual does not to me mean words of support at nonbinding UN Committees.
Nor the declined permit for HMS Clyde last month to visit Brazil - that was a classic own goal of the Foreign Office in London - a silly question to ask Brazil just before their new President makes her first trip oversea to Buenos Aires!
I,ll give you Uruguay,s emabarrising(for them) climb down and last minute refusal to HMS Gloucester last October. But beyond that not sure of any?
FI and UK flagged vessels seem to come and go from Chile and Uruguay.Both nations refer to us by the name Falkland Islands when dealing with us.
Cargo shipping- I accept Arg has successfully blackmailed HamburgSud, but nobody else has?
Dont fotget the varous addons at OAS and UNASUR etc - are just that - add-ons - not part of main declarations- and all seem to be covered by the words- acting within international law - which of course means all these other countries actually dont need to and dont do what they may have murered in the Kirschener ear.
“ ... Next nail in the coffin is coming pretty soon, lad........... ”
Feb 13th, 2011 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Another tin tack on its way eh! Think?
UNASUR maybe .... I liked the logo on this site ... shows clearly that South America doesn't include the Falkland Islands :-)
http://www.cdsunasur.org/en/component/jcalpro/53
Nothing you can do Think. Nothing UNASUR can do either :-))
It seems the brits bloggers have put the cat among the pigeons, and the argentine bloggers in solidarity just collapses in a heap of dung.
Feb 13th, 2011 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Britain may be down at the moment, with defence cutbacks, but you will always find silly fools that think they can invade or do anything else .
in truth the British always have an ace, in this case the astute subs,
a rang of over 3,000 miles with an accuracy to within 3 feet, can sink or destroy anything the argies can come up with .
except one thing, your glorious leader ,now if you put her at the front of your invasion fleet, we wont fire a females, but the same cannot be said of her own sharks,
so invade away my friends just do it after breakfast and before lunch ??
Good article, an effective rebuttal.
Feb 13th, 2011 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Morning all .... quiet isn't it?
Feb 14th, 2011 - 01:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0:-)
@Redhoyt
Feb 14th, 2011 - 03:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0“I referred to the people of our islands as being able to trace their history back 2000 years”
Ok so why you denied the existence of the family of Malen for example, as her ancestors were more than 5000 years here.
If I pick up any day to day British you will not be able to sustain that as Brits are more of them new comers.
And after all who are you? The man who never dies?
You said to have 180 years down here and talk as you have been living in UK for 3000 years as if you can proved the lies you said. Jaja
And you are lying again Britons were only the Romans and the Celtics mixed with Romans in what is today England. Briton is the name used by the romans.
The Scottish for example or Irish never considered themselves as Britons because represent what they hate more and always were fighting in the islands. I mean the Celtics traitors who collaborated with the Romans better know today as English. So British is not the same as a Briton-Romanus or Brythons. At least you are and pure Romanus or mixed from that age. Are you?
So the only Britons are the Briton – Romans thing that you and your lads always deny. I mean being son of the Iberics and Romanus AKA Spanish and the Italians who dominated you from 50 BC.
Have you ever heard about the Antonine Wall and the Vallum Aelium (Hadrian's Wall) in northern England? There ended the Briton-Romanus domination.
What next? Will you tell me that you own France because there were Bretons?
Everything that starts with B is British for you? Such a mess you have in your head, mate.
So you have a big identity problem, sometimes you consider yourself as Briton and as result you are having Italian /Spanish root (Roman/Iberic) to begging with. But for other matters you are Scottish, Welsh or Germanic, haha.
Can you ask your mum who was your father. Please and then come back?
I will appreciate that a lot.
Last Argentineans have more than 5000 years of existence here I can probe that even with a DNA study, jaja
Talking through your arse again DIM :-)
Feb 14th, 2011 - 04:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0I was, again, talking about the people of OUR islands .....
And I certainly have no identity crisis because I am British 2nd ... and I am English 1st -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_people
“ ... The word ”English“ refers to a heritage that began with the arrival of the Anglo-Saxons in the 5th century, who settled lands already inhabited by Romano-British tribes....” BUT
“ ... several recent books, including those of Stephen Oppenheimer and Brian Sykes, have argued that the recent genetic studies in fact do not show a clear dividing line between the English and their 'Celtic' neighbours, but that there is a gradual clinal change from west coast Britain to east coast Britain. They suggest that the majority of the ancestors of British peoples were the original palaeolithic settlers of Great Britain ....”
OUR islands - not another country far away e.g Spain or Italy
Get a life DIM, get laid (if you're passed puberty) ..... and worry about your country's pathetic 200 years of history ... not that you appear to know much about 1833 !
Redhoyt: seriously. by answering the troll you insulted your own intelligence.
Feb 14th, 2011 - 05:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0i've defecated more intelligent things things than nico.
@ Redhoyt
Feb 14th, 2011 - 08:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0You reaaaaally have a big identity problem.
Haha
You forgot the part where Oppenheimer (geneticist from University of Oxford) says that most of the DNA trace shows that most British island inhabitant have Iberian and Celtic ancestors.
And they back this with sample DNA as evidence.
“Stephen Oppenheimer, a medical geneticist at the University of Oxford, says that the historic tales about British origin is wrong in every detail. In Dr. Oppenheimer's reconstruction of events, the principal ancestors of today's British and Irish populations were arrived from Spain”
“The British Isles were unpopulated then, and clean of people by glaciers that had smothered northern Europe for about 4,000 years and forced the former northern inhabitants into southern refuges in Spain and Italy. When the climate warmed and the glaciers retreated, people moved back to the north. The new comers move to the British Isles and found an empty territory, when the English Channel and the Irish Sea were still a mass of land.”
Bryan Sykes, another Oxford geneticist, said he agrees with Dr. Oppenheimer and that the ancestors of the majority of the British people come from Spain and Northern Italy, etc.
Dr. Thomas of University College (English) refuted that by saying that Y chromosomes of English men seem identical to those of people in Norway and the Friesland area of the Netherlands.
But Dr. Oppenheimer refuted that because the similarity is due to is the same population coming from Spain and northern Italy, etc.
Is basic understanding that Europe was repopulated from the south if any population could exist before as the glaciars exterminate everything in the north.
Is what I was telling you and your lads all this time.
Ancient Britons come mainly from Spain
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23367572-ancient-britons-come-mainly-from-spain.do
So ancient inhabitant came from Spain and later came the Romans-Spanish and then the Pakistani. Haha
Interesting stuff. Anyway pleased to note that any Spanish influence that did manage to make it here left the female facial hair gene firmly back in Spain.
Feb 14th, 2011 - 09:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0rivetting stuff, Nicholas,but whats it got to do with our rightful claim to the Falkland lslands and your ridiculous claim?
Feb 14th, 2011 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0but since you started it l will put my two bob's worth in too! -its a wise man who knows his father, who can say who their ancestors were? do you know who was your great-great-great-great-grandfather was and his nationality? when l was a student in Germany we did a lot of exploring in the beautiful countryside. a few of us hiked around near Hannover. we often stayed overnight in barns and farmhouses. some of the old farmhouses had the family's name and a date over the front door. ln one area l noticed a lot of English surnames, when l enquired l was told that there was some English migration TO northern Germany in the 16th century. l never would have thought it. people move all the time. anyway l digress, the Falklands are ours and DO NOT belong to Argentina, thats all that matters
@41, Martino, sore loser
@numerous Think, try to make sense in your old age Cher Think
# 78 Redboy
Feb 14th, 2011 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatia
Don't matter how you cut it children .. Britain has a history .. Argentina does not ! Not long enough to count at any rate :-)
Feb 14th, 2011 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0When you get a history, maybe the world will take you seriously :-)
Nico & Redhoyt, the point is nationality, not race. I know the RG's like to believe that they are a 'new race' (that idea must be the influence of all those Nazis they sheltered after WW2 I guess). Fact is that Britain is a multi-racial Union of Nations, Argentina is a multi-racial nation and the Falkland Islands are a Multi-racial British Overseas territory. If you're being realistic you cannot read any significance into race when discussing the Good ol' Falklands dispute.
Feb 14th, 2011 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0# 84 ...grumpy mate !
Feb 14th, 2011 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauls
Everyone has fallen for the great Argentine tactic...distraction. Nico has raised an insignificant point, regarding race and ancestory, to take your attention from the valid and credible facts put forward by Pepper. Nico has no answer for the facts presented in the article and their for will ignore them, bury his head in the sand, and will dropping red herrings everywhere.
Feb 14th, 2011 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is not any novelty that MERCOPRESS is a tool of the United Kingdom, since its articles don't have anything of impartial, it demonstrates it since the fact that gave of low its version in Spanish language I don't accept the opinions of the readers in Spanish.
Feb 14th, 2011 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This article demonstrates the propaganda of the United Kingdom in this topic.
It is pathetic this author's opinion answering in reactionary form the opinions of Cisneros with regard to the conflict. Today per today in London already nobody discusses that the first governor of the islands was the Argentinean Luís Vernet and that it was a fact of force his expulsion and the one claims Argentinean it is uninterrupted from 1833 the historical facts are since inappealable. It is curious to see as certain English opinadores they insist in transguiversar the history and to twist them according to their interests.
You know, I sometimes I can't believe the oxymoron arguments of NicoDim, he argues that the British are not British because they are ancestors of the Spanish, and then writes the following;
Feb 14th, 2011 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The British Isles were unpopulated then, and clean of people by glaciers that had smothered northern Europe for about 4,000 years and forced the former northern inhabitants into southern refuges in Spain and Italy. When the climate warmed and the glaciers retreated, people moved back to the north. The new comers move to the British Isles and found an empty territory, when the English Channel and the Irish Sea were still a mass of land.”
So the 'British' moved South to avoid the Glaciers, and then when the glaciation retreated, they then moved North back to the British Isles.
So they went on an enforced holiday for a while, but returned, and this makes us all Spanish; the logic is spectacularly flawed.
Such logic represents Argentine thinking; they pick and choose history to suit their present day purposes, and if nothing suits just make it all up anyway. They are a dishonourable people, with a culture of lies and corruption, they can be no more than that, they have no concept of what it is to be honourable, even if it bit them on the arse, like it did in 1982.
The British, however, just tell the truth, because honesty and honour are more important than whether the actual truth hurts.
Raul, you forgot to mention that Vernet had permission from the British for his ventures and he wasn't expelled from the Falklands in 1833 - because he was not there. His employees were there and most of them stayed. The only people expelled were the Buenos Aires garrison, which had been correctly protested by Britain. Oh and I'm not too sure how you think Vernet was “Argentinean”? He was born in Hamburg - of French extraction. Perhaps you could explain how he suddenly became “Argentinean”?
Feb 14th, 2011 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0J.A. Roberts:
Feb 14th, 2011 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sigh - Because Rob, EVERYONE knows that when a german man lives on an island and applies for british governance that clearly makes him Argentinian!
Mmm, Vernet was a bit of an Arthur Daley of his day. At various times he claimed to be German, French, American and Argentine. Whatever was most convenient for his business deals.
Feb 14th, 2011 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lets face it Argentina is a large country in an even larger world that no one takes seriously. What have they ever done in their small little world?............. That's right a big fat nothing, oh I forgot they gave sanctuary to a load of war criminals after the second world war, says it all doesn't it, They gave us corned beef I suppose, well they had to do something with all those cows that they have out there, and I don't mean that president that they have. And that's about all I can think of really, Oh they did kill most of the indigenous people that they came across, at least when we Pirates came across countries we put the population to work so that it made us rich. This lot couldn't even do that. Oh and I forgot that little spat in 1982 when they thought that they had all grown up and could take on a far superior race of people, it took just 3 months for them to get the message not to mess with the big boys in the world.
Feb 14th, 2011 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I just wish that we had gone that bit further and gone back with them to the mainland, that would have been fun, it would have been worth it just to see old Galtieri's face when ten thousand of us knocked on his bedroom door to ask him if he wanted to come out and play with the big boys.
Still you cant have everything in life can you. We could always come and knock on the present presidents door? oooh on second thoughts no thank you have you seen her ooooh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Vernet
Feb 14th, 2011 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#90 ”Vernet was the first Argentine appointed as Governor of Puerto Luis by the Government of Buenos Aires (his appointment was in the name of the Republic of Buenos Aires). Vernet was owed money by the Argentine Government and the settlement in the Falkland Islands was offered in partial restitution of that debt.“
I am sure he must have become an Argentine citizen.
”Vernet arrived in Puerto Soledad in 1829 and reverted to the use of the original French name as Puerto Luis. The settlement was only established in 1828 after several abortive attempts and following the abandonment of the previous Spanish and British colonies in the Falklands in 1811 and 1776 respectively”
#88 what else can we expect from pirats, thieves, liars and illegal aliens, I guess Hong Kong's history didn't teach people much.
One cannot rise to theory, rubbish, and history from comics
Feb 14th, 2011 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0as long as the truth is their for all to see, then only fools and Argentineans will ever try to fool the unfoolable, Spain descends from those who fell out of trees as we do, if indeed you wish to back that far ? but as their was no books or writing then , who can prove or cares, when Britannica was recognised as such, then Britons would be there, as would Spain, but rest assured Argentina was still a light in someone’s fairy, and did not exist, so the only fact we need to know is the following, Britain has over 2,000 years of history, / Argentina cir 150, now who would you rather believe, our history or their bullshit, [and the Falklands are still British ] yesterday, today and tomorrow, and that is a FACT
95 briton (#)
Feb 14th, 2011 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its no use telling them this, the fools believe all the bullshit that their government tells them. 150 years of history must make them really proud, they came they saw they conquered or should I say killed the indigenous people, when we ever came across country's that we took a fancy too we put the indigenous people to work so that it would make us rich, this lot hadent the brians to think of that, but then they had no history like us did they.
They wont dare do anything about the Falklands, there are to many cowards on the mainland, they aways talk big but they are actualy a very small race of people that think that they are on the world stage, fools.
Glad to see you've conquered your obsession with Lewis Clifton, I.
Feb 14th, 2011 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway, TWIMC, there's a very good reason why hardly anyone bothers talking about Vernet, and few Falkland Islanders could care less whether he was an Argentine citizen or not, and that is that IT IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT TO ANYTHING!!
What planet are you people on? What kind of twisted logic says that what happened to 26 people in 1833 could possibly justify the kind of human rights abuse that you would like to perpetrate on us?
We are British citizens and that still counts for something. I don't expect you lot to understand that, but if you think anyone is going to force us to become Argentines against our will because three men and a dog were 'expulsed' in 1833 you can think again.
All spoilt children want what they cannot have, or do not own, that’s why there glorious president and there warp teaching methods create these children into believing that they can have the Falklands, even if they have to steal them, by persuading the rest of south America to back them up.
Feb 14th, 2011 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0they just cannot or will not understand that they have no claim on the islands and never had any, and if there only claim is that argentines were living on the island, then surely from their own mouths, can we have a claim on Argentina through the thousands of British people that have and are living in Argentina , then, and now,
so will they go home, [will a dog leave its bone ?? ]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Vernet
Feb 14th, 2011 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Luis Vernet arrived in Puerto Soledad in 1829 and reverted to the use of the original French name as Puerto Luis. The settlement was only established in 1828 after several abortive attempts and following the abandonment of the previous Spanish and British colonies in the Falklands in 1811 and 1776 respectively”
#95 unless we delete all history books the facts will still remein that illegal aliens in Malvinas where an implanted colony that was brought from UK to replace the Argentine population in Malvinas Argentina.
#96 that right you can take the fakland island company back to UK we don't need more pirats, Argentine claims is for Islas Malvinas Argentina, we could careless what you do with your british firm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Vernet
#97 Argentines feel sorry that UK doesn't let british citizens go back home or apply for Argentine citizenship, even Mexicans are given that rights you should take your complains to UN. lol in time UK will have to deal with our little Israel in occupyed Malvinas Argentina, I guess UK didn't get the meassge the Egypcian are sending the empire.
and by the way no body will force you to do anything like every other illegal aliens you have the rights to apply for legal status or you can be deported back home just like any other illegal alien.
I guess you don't like being treated like a Mexican or Roma gypsis, guess what neither do they but that is how Europids treat others and deserve to be treated.
UK will have to deal with our little Israel in occupied Malvinas Argentina, I guess UK didn't get the message the Egyptians are sending the empire.
Feb 14th, 2011 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 099 I (#)??????????????????
sorry I had no idea that you had Israelis in the Falklands
sorry I did not know we still had an empire.
but the Egyptians were demonstrating against a dictator,
and only Argentina on this blogg had one, and still does in part,
you may well be correct in that if it can happen their it can happen anywhere, but Argentina will go years before Britain, and for very different reasons, as in the past we would be fighting for our freedom, from the Euro empire, in your case , to stop your dictatorship over the Falklands .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Vernet
Feb 14th, 2011 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0” ... The appointment of Vernet was challenged by the British consul in Buenos Aires, who restated the previous British claim to the Islands. Vernet had sought British permission before landing on the Falkland Islands (in 1826 and again in 1828) and agreed to provide regular reports to the British consulate. In response to the announcement of his appointment as Governor, Vernet stressed to the British that his interests were purely commercial....“
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Vernet
” ... before leaving once again sought permission first from the British Consulate in Buenos Aires. The British asked for a report on the islands for the British government, and Vernet asked for British protection should they return...”
I(diot) - still only dishing up the bits of information that suit your spurious case?
graham: Go and find another job,since your propaganda skills are lousy!
Feb 14th, 2011 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0J.A. Roberts: Excuse for the bad translation, but this mistaken one because you don't study or he/she listens the version Argentina and the true foundations of the Argentinean rights. Listen and compare the other bell. Their rights are not only limited to that argument.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 01:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0But but there of this it should recognize that I Reign United he/she has many years more than Independent life and History that the República Argentina that is not anything saint, has its adolescent errors. Regrettably in their World History, making a balance (I Reign United), he/she has made many but attitudes and negative cruelties that positive to the humanity and the world peace, and the British islanders load with that stigma. Coarse with alone to remember in the history from it is her about slaves in America and Asia (India) and África (Sudáfrica) and their racism and exploitation, their hidden imperialism even supporting with United States the terrorism of state of Galtieri before 1982 (coarse to observe that the Argentinean destroyers were proveídos for Great bretaña and their military ones taught courses of tortures fruit of their experience in the fight against the ANGER (I Exercise Irish Republican) and at the present time fomenting the inequality, the interventionism and the threat with nuclear bombs to those that don't agree with them. That is the true context of the conflict. Anglo-Saxon imperialism versus legitimate reclamos removed by the force in 1833.
I surrender separated they are the inhabitants of the islands that have a problem of Identity for many: Are they English or Argentinean? We know that Mercopress responds to British Interests (it proves it the fact of they gave of low the version in Castilian) and to a strategy of the very similar United Kingdom to other conflicts with Guatemala (Belize), Venezuela (Guyana), Spain (Gibraltar) and other but…. it Divides and you reigned”….
We seem silly and frank but we are not it………..
Sorry, Rolly, not very much of that makes any sense in english. However, from the little I did manage to gleam - the true context of the conflict, if there is one, is Argentina's naked attempt at a land grab of islands it has never owned through a revisionist version of history and in defiance of the clearly stated UN's Charter which give the islander's the right to self determination.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 02:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0And you do seem silly! Who is Frank ?
:-)
Guess what?
Feb 15th, 2011 - 04:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Time for an --------- ----------
So everyone can get ahead - complete with a recognised Falklands and a recognised (my) Malvinas, and transparent borders.
No application of self determination on Malvinas case.The sovereignity issue,takes precedence over selfdetermination
Feb 15th, 2011 - 04:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://books.google.ca/books?id=sXrjNCYzlPMC&pg=PA101&lpg=PA101&dq=self+determination+to+the+falklands?&source=bl&ots=3tZ5RSNp53&sig=wYXjZm4ctxjGImJ64wrKX-z2siY&hl=en&ei=hPZZTbeOE8Wclgev8IHNDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CFkQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=self%20determination%20to%20the%20falklands%3F&f=false
Read UN resolutions on Malvinas again.
Total support for Argentina on sovereignity of Malvinas,San Pedro(georgias) and SS and surrouinding seas.
Sorry pal,you are alone in the Sotuh american block
#106 - quite wrong.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 04:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Check the Charter! No mention of anything at all over-riding the right to self determination.
Check the Kosovo decision from the ICJ! Territorial integrity is certainly not enough!
Check the Resolutions yourself. No UNGA Resolutions since 1988, and that one said ” ... 1. Requests the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to initiate negotiations with a view to finding the means to resolve peacefully and definitively the problems pending between both countries, including all aspects on the future of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas), in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations ... ” Charter ... important that, CHARTER!
Last UNSC Resolution was 1982 ... Argentina failed to comply!
The C-24 Draft Resolutions have no effect if not taken up and forwarded by the Fourth Committee to the UNGA ... and even then a UNGA Resolution is merely advisory. Only the UNSC Resolutions carry any weight and Argentina ignored those....
The Falkland islands are British - get used to it ..... but hey, as you have raised the South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands claim perhaps you can enlighten me as to the grounds for Argentina's claim ...... you'll be famous if you can, as no-one else seems to know it (except Think, who is not saying :-)
In addition, the C-24 Draft Resolutions aren't even subject to a vote of the C-24 before forwarding to the UNGA; for some weird reasoning they are 'adopted by consensus', but there is no indication what this is, it does not appear to be clearly defined. Certainly there is no vote taken at the C-24.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 05:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0The C-24 is a waste of time and effort, it has no power, is discredited because doesn't even visit the people 'in need of' self-determination, and is now populated by Argentine collaborators who have been fed the false history promoted by the Argentine Government.
'adopted by consensus'
Feb 15th, 2011 - 05:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is, I suspect, a cunning diplomatic way of avoiding blame if the decision was wrong ... “ Oh no, We weren't a part of the concensus” :-)
Correct me if I am wrong, but british citizens have full self determination in UK, just as I am sure Argentina doesn't want any british to feel forced to stay or go, that is a choice they are free to make on their own, consider it like EU and USA immigration laws, if it worked for them I am sure it will work in Malvinas Argentina.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 05:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Vernet
“Vernet arrived in Puerto Soledad in 1829 and reverted to the use of the original French name as Puerto Luis. The settlement was only established in 1828 after several abortive attempts and following the abandonment of the previous Spanish and British colonies in the Falklands in 1811 and 1776 respectively”
“Vernet was granted a monopoly on seal hunting and one of his first acts was to curb seal hunting”
Your link is incorrect I(diot) ... never abandoned!
Feb 15th, 2011 - 07:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Vernett had British permission which was why his workers could stay when the rest of the trespassing Argentine garrison was asked to leave. Repetition doesn't actually make it right.
As for self determination - yes the British people have that right, on ALL their islands !
103 Raul (#)
Feb 15th, 2011 - 07:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0“they are the inhabitants of the islands that have a problem of Identity for many: Are they English or Argentinean?”
Raúl,
They have no problem of identity. They are neither English nor Argentine (obviously with the exception of English and Argentine immigrants who have Falkland Islands status). They are Falkland Islanders. Falkland Islanders and British.
The rest of your post is drivel. You must be using a really bad translator, so I'll translate what I wrote myself.
No tienen ningun problema de identidad. No son ni ingleses ni argentinos (con la excepción de aquellos inmigrantes ingleses y argentinos que tengan Falkland Islands Status), son falkland islanders. Falkland islanders y británicos.
Here Raul, read this, it might help you understand that Argentina did not have any legitimate rights in the Falklands in 1833 and nor does Argentina have legitimate rights there today.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.falklandshistory.org/spanish4.pdf
Falkland islanders y británicos = Illegal Colony not other explanation here I guess
Feb 15th, 2011 - 10:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ribert, Roberto, Ruberto another peace of invented history perhaps?
NicoDim, you would know about invented history, being such an expert at inventing it yourself...
Feb 15th, 2011 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh and Raul, it's a bit rich of you to lecture us about our racism in decades and centuries past, when your own constitution discriminates on race TODAY.
Constitución de la Nación Argentina
Artículo 25
El Gobierno federal fomentará la inmigración EUROPEA; y no podrá restringir, limitar ni gravar con impuesto alguno la entrada en el territorio argentino de los extranjeros que traigan por objeto labrar la tierra, mejorar las industrias, e introducir y enseñar las ciencias y las artes
BTW “I” did you note who wrote most of that article on Luis Vernet?
Feb 15th, 2011 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“full self determination in UK”
Feb 15th, 2011 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Clearly you do not understand what self determination means. They have the right to choose there own government.
Currently they can choose between Argentina and the UK as government, they are choosing the UK.
What you are suggesting on the otherhand is forced relocation(Or Ethnic Cleansing) which is a different law broken entirely and is against the Geneva Convention.
J.A. Roberts: Don't take it to bad, I tell it to him with respect, read and listen other bells and he/she will see that also that the Argentinean reclamos is very fair on the islands.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The link to which you make reference: Beyond the Official History
The True History of the Falklands/Malvinas
An answer to the Argentinean Seminar of December 3 2007
for Graham Pascoe and Peter Pepper © 2008 of Graham Pascoe , are a reactionary version to the Argentinean seminar of December 3 2007. The authors leave a lot that to want for their scarce level and their lack of foundations. It is but they are columnists of Mercopress that this publication is known by its null journalistic independence and to defend and to represent the English interests. I reiterate him that he/she studies and read other versions and listen other bells of other countries and he/she will see that the reclamos is fair.
But there of this difference, he/she should realize and I reiterate him that it should not lose of view the context of the conflict: Anglo-Sajon imperialism hidden in today's day (united included States) versus legitimate reclamos removed by the force in 1833. Argentina never accent of claiming in the history in spite of being aimed with a he/she arms yesterday: (it battles of the vuelta de Obligado) when him toward and today with the threats of nuclear bombs to claim in international forums.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13906382/Derechos-Argentinos-Sobre-Las-Islas-Malvinas
Erm Raul, the paper by Pascoe/Pepper might be a reaction, but it's certainly not reactionary. Oh and I think it has pretty good foundations, mostly original sources - many of them in the Archivo General de la Nación Argentina. The best your piece by Aldredo Bologna can do is reference other publications - not a single original source.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You bang on about Anglo-Saxon imperialism, yet you forget that every single British colony which has asked for independence has been granted it. I notice you have dropped the racism claim. I guess Article 25 of your own constitution saw that off.
Get over it Raul, the Falklands were never Argentine and they are not Argentine now.
Rolly - so what you are saying (I think) is that your version of history must be correct because it is YOUR version of history, whereas our version of history must be incorrect because it is OUR version of history!
Feb 15th, 2011 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Amazing ... well that explains a lot! Nothing to do with the fact that the facts seem to support the British case but not the Argentine one. Still trying to convince us that the poor Argentine settlers were removed en masse in 1833 when, in fact, we can prove otherwise.
Rolly .. you need a better translator, and a much better idea of history !
What a laugh Raul. That Bologna paper could not be more poorly argued or researched if it tried.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bologna says the Falkland Islanders have no right to self determination. He quotes ICJ Report 1975 p 33 par 59. Which directly contradicts his assertion! What a thicko! According to the ICJ self determination is NOT AFFECTED in certain cases where the GA has dispensed with consultation. Yes, NOT AFFECTED! And the GA has certainly never placed the Falkland Islands in such a category - for either of the two reasons given (although Bologna would have you believe that it has). The best Bologna can do is say that as as far as Jimenez de Arechaga is concerned this category does apply to the Falklands, forgetting that it's not someone's opinion which brings this about but at the very least a GA resolution. No such thing exists.
Bologna also slips in a complete fabrication - that the UN has called for not only negotiations (to resolve a sovereignty dispute) but also transfer of territory. What a load of rubbish! Transfer of the Falklands to whom? Under which UN resolution?
Then Bologna really gets into his stride. The Falkland Islanders don't have a right to self determination because British colonisation in the Falklands started in 1834 and that 95% of the Falkland Islanders in 1980 were of British descent? Talk about a straw man!
Please Raul, do yourself a favour and do a bit more reading up before you make a fool of yourself again.
This what I love about the Argentinians, they are so out of touch with the rest of the world that they call everyone who comes from the UK English. They are so uneducated they think that anyone who comes from the UK and speak English are English. Ye Gods how out of touch can a nation be.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually this is a pointless debate, even if they had any legitimate that the Falklands belonged to Argentina which they never had, it all evaporated in those three months in 1982 when they committed a war crime and invaded a sovereign protectorate of the United Kingdom.
The Falklands are 300 odd miles away from Argentina and if Argentina have a claim over the Falklands so must Chile as the tip of Chile must be about the same distance. You don't see that country making any claims on them, just these idiotic Argy Bargy's.
The Falklands will always be a British protectorate until the time comes that the people that live on the Falklands decide for themselves that they no longer want to be part of Britain. until that day keep your trespassing feet of our property.
You have no claim on it never had a claim on it and you never will have a claim on it.
Now go away and stop wasting everyone's time with your silly claims that no one takes seriously out side of Argentina.
This is the English pirate talking, I am proud that you call us English pirates, its a pity that we no longer live in those days when we actually sailed those pirate ships as I am sure your nation now would be speaking English instead of SpanishI have instead taken the liberty of renaming your country. From this day forth Argentina will be no longer named Argentina, instead it will be called Little Britain. All Spanish speaking persons will now have to speak English. I also regrettably have to inform the people of this new nation that from henceforth the county will be a protestant country who head of state is her Majesty Queen Elizabeth. You may if you wish still remain Catholics as the first Elizabeth is now dead, God rest her soul.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There thats the Falklands sorted, as Little Britain is now British there is no longer any claim by the former county called Argentina over the falklands.
GOD SAVE THE QUEEN. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN.
J.A. Roberts: Be not disrespectful, although I don't wait that you this of agreement with I crumb, you take to the laugh, to people that don't think as you I have not allowed to fall any comment it has more than enough racism, I am not competing with you alone sharing points of view. Of course that there are other authors with a lot but I base that they use the thesis Argentina, but we are not in a competition in who presents the best figure. You will maybe deny that with 500 years of history the Englishmen are Ángeles full with kindness, when in fact slaves marketed and they fomented the racism in their society in that whole time and they made horrendous crimes comparable to those of the Nazi and today they still follow it making like in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Us the Argentineans have a lot to still learn of other races and cultures that we have mistreated and that regrettably we have not behaved well. We have a lot of self-criticism with regard to OUR INGIGENAS, as Fraile Bartolomé of the Houses or our prize Nóbel of the peace Pérez esquivel. But that doesn't remove that we claim for our islands usurped by an infinitely more perverse imperial power as that of the United Kingdom and united States. You never have a self-criticism on like they have not even acted in their 500 years of history in like they helped Galtieri before the war of 1982 helping to torture and to disappear to 30.000 people, discover that he/she says International Amnesty on this topic and it will surprise.
Luther King said: “There are not roads toward the peace, the peace is the road.”
You have. a mistaken concept of superación. You don't understand that the superación doesn't go to remain silent to the other one, to tramp it or to kill him, with his thought was justified so much Argentinean as Englishmen in the conflict of 1982. I am not nobody who him of humanity's lessons, but he/she should think that the one that doesn't think as you doesn't give him right to eliminate it or to
118 Raul (#)
Feb 15th, 2011 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The authors leave a lot that to want for their scarce level and their lack of foundations.”
The Spanish version does not include sources, the English version does
http://www.falklandshistory.org/gettingitright.pdf
Bologna says Argentina's claim is based on:
1) Right of first occupant
First occupant was France. France lost its right as first occupant when it declared that its occupation was illegitimate. By default right of first occupant passed to the UK.
2)Consent to possession by the main powers of Europe
No country in Europe recognised Argentina's possession at the time.
3) Adjancency of the islands to the continent.
The islands are not adjacent to the continent, they are too far away to be adjacent. That part of the continent was not even Argentine territory in 1833. Besides, proximity, geography, and geology are all irrelevant in international law.
4)Succession of all the rights of Spain
Spain never established effective control over all of the Falklands, its area was limited to the vicinity of Port Louis. Argentina succeeded to nothing from Spain. Argentina took its independence without Spain's consent, through unilateral secession using force. Spain only started relinquishing its territories in the Americas in 1836, and when it recognised Argentina in 1859 (without Buenos Aires) and 1863 (with Buenos Aires) no cession or transfer of Spain's claim to the Falklands took place. Spain simply was not in the position to cede something it did not possess.
In the case of unilateral secession sovereignty is achieved not through inheritance but through establishing effective control over territory and obtaining recognition of that control from other states. Argentina never established effective control over the Falklands.
Britishbulldog: YOU that it is so sublime didn't stop to think a little, to put on in the place of the other one and to think because they think and they act different from YOU
Feb 15th, 2011 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Now leaves and stop to spend all time with their silly demands that nobody takes out side of Argentina seriously”
As consequence of their thought whole directing classes calamities and deaths like the world wars, the colonization of the Indian and África brought and to ignore the I claim Argentinean for 178 years that produced deaths for both sides or he/she maybe believes that we are proud for that of 1982. You don't really have conscience neither responsibility of what says.
Just a few things Raul
Feb 15th, 2011 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0United Kingdom is not the same as United States. They are completely different countries. The United States has been independent since 1776. Please stop lumping the UK together with the USA as if we are the same country. They are not.
We fought the Nazis (and defeated them). You gave them refuge after the war. You should really bring stuff like that up unless you have completely clean hands - and you don't. Not to mention your own country's long history of dictatorships. I doubt Argentina has had a total 30 years of true democracy since 1810!
We had a terrible history of colonialism. We know that. It is taught in our schools. So did you: the “Conquista del Desierto”, which continues to be glorified in Argentina today. And you still treat your native people like shit. You don't exactly have a case, do you?
We had a history of slavery. We don't deny that. So did you AND the UK banned slavery BEFORE Argentina did. You don't really have a leg to stand on. Anyway, it is HISTORY.
Oh, and we never self-criticize? What a load of crap! We even have museums devoted to the terrible stuff we did in colonial times.
http://www.empiremuseum.co.uk
www.museumindocklands.org.uk/slavery
Do you have a self-critical museum about the atrocities which were committed during the Conquista del Desierto? No, I didn't think so...
In the Iraq War we were part of a 30 nation coalition and the UK withdrew totally in 2009 (so we are not “still” there as you imply). In Afghanistan we are part of the multi-national ISAF force. If what you say about us is true, then it must be the same for all the other countries involved. Do you stand by that???
You are not in a position to give lessons in morality Raul.
You keep trawling up history, but the Argentine claim dates from 1945, when Argentina joined the United Nations and ratified the UN Convention. Before 1945 is history, it's interesting but it's irrelevant.
#127 LOL really ?? I am not buying that. USA and british are the same people didn't you notice they never go into a fight alone, and use excuses like WMD and pirats ships to perpetuate their europid murderous behaviour..
Feb 15th, 2011 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/darwin_clifton.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3388670&c=AME&s=SEA
You do realise by posting the same links over and over in every post, you only prove that you lack intelligence.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not all of them even support your view.
128 I (#). You embarrass yourself with your posts .
Feb 15th, 2011 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0am not buying that. USA and british are the same people
Feb 15th, 2011 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wouldent say that to the 160 million + african Americans,
or for that matter the 170 + million mexican/spannish americans.
for you may get a much sterner reply,
Not to mention the Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans, Irish-Americans, Russian-Americans, Arab-Americans, Swedish-Americans, German-Americans, Norwegian-Americans etc...
Feb 15th, 2011 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0122 Britishbulldog (#)
Feb 15th, 2011 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ This what I love about the Argentinians, they are so out of touch with the rest of the world that they call everyone who comes from the UK English. They are so uneducated they think that anyone who comes from the UK and speak English are English.
Que?
”That is why to many English people “Britishness” means nothing other than a series of (often quite glorious) historical facts. “Britain”, to me, is now simply a geographical entity. The English have not destroyed the Union: the Scots have, and that was their right. Mr Brown's piece reminded me of those rather sad and romantic old men with military moustaches who used to bang on about “The Empire” well into the 1960s. His banging on about “The Union” is every bit as anachronistic, and as futile. Whether out of blinkeredness, stupidity or cynicism, he simply doesn't realise what is going on in England or in his own country”.
www.telegraph.co.uk/.../The-Scots-destroyed-the-Union-so-vote-SNP.html
I am sorry kids I don't have time to educate ignorant british illegal aliens, you are welcome to file a complain in UK or whatever country you come from, good luck with that, I am sure you will need it.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/darwin_clifton.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3388670&c=AME&s=SEA
@Britishbulldog
Feb 15th, 2011 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“This what I love about the Argentinians, they are so out of touch with the rest of the world that they call everyone who comes from the UK English”
Well this also can be said to the Germans, French, Italians, Americans, Brazilians and the rest of the world.
Or do you think that you go to any of this countries and people would say Oops You must be Welsh form Cardiff and your friend sure is English from Dover. Haha
The “world” recognizes easily an Porteño from Buenos Aires than a English from London, haha.
Hahaha I agree!
Feb 15th, 2011 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#135 europids are all the same, rapist, murderer, thieves and liars this all equates to english people, why bother trying to see if there is any difference between them, just shoot.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/darwin_clifton.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3388670&c=AME&s=SEA
Morning all .. usual crap from the RG's I see. Falkland Islands still just off the coast of Britain (8000 = 'just' to a nation spread out like we are :-)?
Feb 15th, 2011 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still British then? Yes! Wonderful ... God is in his heaven and the RG's are on the far side of the world/reality :-)
Cuppa time :-))
#107
Feb 16th, 2011 - 12:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ypu are wrong.
The charter,made specific about Malvinas case,No self determination in the Malvinas case
Moreover,the Mercosur,does not recognize brit sovereignity,but only Argentinian sovereignity on the South atlantic islands.
http://www.diputadosmercosur.gov.ar/imagenes/Declaracionmalvinas.pdf
Check the Charter! No mention of anything at all over-riding the right to self determination.
The Falkland islands are British - get used to it ..... but hey, as you have raised the South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands claim perhaps you can enlighten me as to the grounds for Argentina's claim ...... you'll be famous if you can, as no-one else seems to know it (except Think, who is not saying :-)
No I do not accept brit sovereignity on any Island on the South Atlantic,I will never get use to it, nor do I accept it.It is like the nazi,in occupied teritories, or uk in India,sure they were there until they kicked you out like dogs,same thing will happens.anyway brittain has bigger problems,like the 9 trillion dollar debt,get use to it,you will have to pay for it
By the way,the documents of the mercosur,plus some central american states,some comonwealth countries,signed the documents of NO RECOGNITION of uk sovereignity,it is a matter of time,so get use to it!!
Morning Hoyt, “Britain, spread out like we are ”
Feb 16th, 2011 - 12:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not anymore Hoyt, no wonder you changed your beloved Britania for Asia...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1683635.ece
Rolly - if you claim I am wrong then quote the Charter ! Bet you can't.
Feb 16th, 2011 - 01:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ ... No I do not accept brit sovereignity on any Island on the South Atlantic,I will never get use to it, nor do I accept it....”
Tough. You are merely being emotional, not practical, legal or even historical. I don't care what you are prepared to accept. We don't care what Mercosur or UNASUR is prepared to accept.
The islands are British ...... always have been ! That's reality :-)
Morning MoreCrap - we've still got lots of BOT's .... and the sun is always shing on one of them :-))
@Marcos Alejandro
Feb 16th, 2011 - 03:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0And the take over Britain would be even easier, they are firing his soldiers by email now. haha
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/3411906/38-senior-Army-heroes-including-one-on-the-Afghan-front-line-are-sacked-by-email.html
: )
The islands are British ...... always have been ! That's reality :-)
Feb 16th, 2011 - 03:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0No it not true.
A lot of time were under Spanish hands,Argentinean hands and so on.
uk did not loose an empire recently?Or is it my imagination?
Anyway,the island are of little value,since no oil and very litttle fish(actually the fish depends of the Argentine sea production,so we have the shaft on that matter).
Most of the oil,is located in the argentine sea(which is not disputed by anybody,and the Andean region.
Anyway,it is time to take off the “preferred nation status” to uk,kick out,BP,BHP minerals and others from that status,since you people are useless as friends.
So how is the Malvinas going to help the uk economy,which is bankrupt?
Mr. redhoyt?
142 NicoDin
Feb 16th, 2011 - 05:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0they are so broke that they are trying to save on mail stamps
.135 NicoDin (#)
Feb 16th, 2011 - 07:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0That comment proves my point as to how uneducated you are, I know of no other country that calls everyone from Britain English anymore just the people from Argentina.
Marcos Alejando.
We are so broke that we can give 11 billion £s in aid to foreign countries, We are so broke we can give 10 billion £s to the Irish to bail them out, We are so broke that we can give to Europe 20billion £s a year to them. By the way tell me what is your rate of inflation? ours is 3.5 and this time next year it will come down to 2.5 Tell me once again whats yours ?.
And while you are at it can you tell the world what does Argentina give in aid to help out other countrys in the world.
Tte Estevez (#)
A lot of time were under Spanish hands,Argentinean hands and so on. I don't think so. The Spanish did not care for it so only spent a couple of years their, then the French had a few years there. Then Guess what we British came and settled there and have been on it for more than a few years try 180 years. and it was only after 1945 that you lot even thought about the Falklands, do me a favor and stop talking out of your backside. Oh and as my compatriot has stated the Falklands are British get used to it and move on in life. They will remain British until the people on them decide they want nothing else to do with Britain, and I think hell will freeze over when that day comes, who wants to be ruled by people like you?
Argentines-talk,moan,complain,bring up ridiculous claims & whine all that you like.
Feb 16th, 2011 - 08:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0These are OUR lslands, NOT yours and you will not get them. not much more to say, except“get lost”.or “bugger off”
@Britishbulldog
Feb 16th, 2011 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0“That comment proves my point as to how uneducated you are”
Sure if you say so, but if you go to Spain say that you are English because they recognize you as that even if they know that UK exist. In France they call you Anglais/Anglaise, In Italy inglese/inglesa, Germany Engländer – Engländerin (when they are polite of course).
Here a simple example to show you how much you have still to learn about what you call “the world”.
That of course you don’t know due to your ignorance showed in your post.
A face book page of this organization “UAAR” referring to David Cameron as the English Prime Minister. Hahahahahahahaha
http://es-la.facebook.com/notes/uaar-unione-degli-atei-e-degli-agnostici-razionalisti/gb-cameron-dichiara-fallito-il-multiculturalismo-di-stato/10150090563087636
“Intervenendo a una conferenza sulla sicurezza a Monaco di Baviera, il primo ministro inglese David Cameron ha dichiarato che “il multiculturalismo di Stato inglese ha fallito”
Translation: The “English Prime Minister David Cameron”, in speech in a conference about security in Munich said “The multiculturalism of the English’s state have failed” Cuack.
Haha and you call me uneducated haha,
For this occasions I have Little Emma who speaks for me
http://es-la.facebook.com/notes/uaar-unione-degli-atei-e-degli-agnostici-razionalisti/gb-cameron-dichiara-fallito-il-multiculturalismo-di-stato/10150090563087636
No much to say I guess.
147 David Cameron is English, you foolish person.
Feb 16th, 2011 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rather than rely on feckless, flatulent Argentinians to translate for you, you should come to England and learn to read and write our beautiful language properly.
”In France they call you Anglais/Anglaise, In Italy inglese/inglesa, Germany Engländer – Engländerin (when they are polite of course).”
Feb 16th, 2011 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Each of those countrys have a seperate word for British Nico. It all depends on the individual person and which words they use.
Some people are more ignorant and less informed than others, if it is your goal to be part of this group of people none of us mind that much.
I see the bulk of the conversation, mainly led by the Argentines, is to do with what other countries call British people...and I also see someone has justified the Argentine claim over South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands...“because they are in the South Atlantic”. Laughable.
Feb 16th, 2011 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentines continue to distract everyone from the article. The Argentines do not have any arguement against what Pepper has said in the article. It is the same old rhetoric based on inaccurate interpretations of history, which (interestingly enough) they (the Argentines) cannot validate or certify, they actually ignore the opportinity to do so...why? Because they can't. So instead they distract with equally stupid comments (e.g. there is no difference between an American and a Brit). It is very evident that the Argentines do not have a valid reason for their Falklands claim, and it is very clear in their comments. The British/Falkland commentators are using facts, facts backed with Pepper's article, which includes sources (from his work), while the Argentines use the speeches of their polticians, which is based on a fantasy they have invented, that is not back up by facts or sources.
Self-Determination is at work, and I have taken the opportunity to use it. I am British. And that is how it will remain until people like myself, WestisBest, Islander1 etc choose otherwise. Nothing can change that. Nothing Argentina invents can change that. Everyone else in the world is able to choose, and so can we.
lot of time were under Spanish hands,Argentinean hands and so on. I don't think so. The Spanish did not care for it so only spent a couple of years their, then the French had a few years there. Then Guess what we British came and settled there and have been on it for more than a few years try 180 years. and it was only after 1945 that you lot even thought about the Falklands, do me a favor and stop talking out of your backside. Oh and as my compatriot has stated the Falklands are British get used to it and move on in life. They will remain British until the people on them decide they want nothing else to do with Britain, and I think hell will freeze over when that day comes, who wants to be ruled by people like you?
Feb 16th, 2011 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Look pal,I have no problem with the people living in the Island,and I will respect that decision,if the Argentines,were allowed to stay there.
Since that was not the case,I can not respect that.The Mercosur countries,already had signed the documents,regarding that.I do nto think the document, says anything about the habitants,but eve th eUN,recognized that selfdetermination is not applicable in that case.In any way,I think if the britsh are smart,may be you can get support in some other areas,which will be more directly beneficial to the th uk.
Remember,they are alone,not Uurguay or Brasil are allowing british vessels.Do you think that is beneficial to the uk?
Get used that nothing is ethernal,specially if yo are at 14000km from the island...so get use to that....
#43 Se Ester - the spanish were allowed to stay there for a while, but did not have sole sovereignty! The British can be generous like that !
Feb 16th, 2011 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ ... uk did not loose an empire recently ...”
Lose an empire? No! We know exactly where it is!
” ... Anyway,the island are of little value,since no oil and very litttle fish(actually the fish depends of the Argentine sea production,so we have the shaft on that matter)....“
Hey, we don't care ... we love 'em anyway. By the way, shafts are for losing Chilean miners in, not for fishing !
” ... Most of the oil,is located in the argentine sea ...“
Sounds like a good tip, how do you know? Anyone drilled there yet?
” ... Anyway,it is time to take off the “preferred nation status” to uk,kick out,BP,BHP ...“
Er, didn't BP leave already and aren't BHP Australian ?
” ... So how is the Malvinas going to help the uk economy,which is bankrupt?..”
We don't need any help, we can go bankrupt all by ourselves :-)
Ps. ... you forgot to send the reference to the UN Charter that makes the Falkland Islands an exception ....... ?? Can't find it? Still waiting :-))
DIM and MoreCrap aren't worth the effort!
”Ps. ... you forgot to send the reference to the UN Charter that makes the Falkland Islands an exception ....... ?? Can't find it? Still waiting :-))”
Feb 16th, 2011 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Prepare to wait a VERY long time Hoyt...
J.A. - I'm one of life's little optimists ..... :-)
Feb 16th, 2011 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Se Ester -
Argentines CANNOT stay on the islands because they are BRITISH islands .,.... although they could probably book a cruise or something!
“ .. Since that was not the case,I can not respect that ...”
Hey .. what can I say ..... WHO CARES!!
“ ... eve th eUN,recognized that selfdetermination is not applicable in that case ...”
AH. you've found the reference ... the paragraph ... the sentence ... and you are going to reveal it ...... ! Yes? No? Oh, bugger ... you are still talking through your arse aren't you!
“ ... Get used that nothing is ethernal ...”
Fair enough, I agree ... nothing is ever ethernal :-)
Tse, please show us exactly where the UN denies the Human Right of self-determination to the people of the Falkland Islands. No? You can't, do you know why you can't...it is because you and your Government are lying.
Feb 16th, 2011 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0145 Britishbulldog, http://www.debtbombshell.com/
Feb 16th, 2011 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0149 Zethee “Each of those countrys have a seperate word for British Nico. It all depends on the individual person and which words they use”.
1.1 Ang Moh
1.2 Limey
1.3 Pommy
1.4 Rosbif/Rosbeef
1.5 Rooinek, Khaki, Soutie
1.6 Britisher, Ingraj, Angrez, Angrej, Anggrit, Firang, Sayip
1.7 John Bull
1.8 Tommy
1.9 Redcoat
1.10 Inselaffen
1.11 Piratas(Pirates)
let see the red and hoyt,they want the article...
Feb 16th, 2011 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well unfortunately for you it was placed above you people,care to read that,I place it again http://books.google.ca/books?id=sXrjNCYzlPMC&pg=PA101&lpg=PA101&dq=self+determination+to+the+falklands?&source=bl&ots=3tZ5RSNp53&sig=wYXjZm4ctxjGImJ64wrKX-z2siY&hl=en&ei=hPZZTbeOE8Wclgev8IHNDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CFkQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=self%20determination%20to%20the%20falklands%3F&f=false
No problem if you ”love the malvinenses,as long has you do it with your money,
As long as Argentina goes,economy is booming,price or raw material like Cooper,OIl and Gas,Uranium,Gold,Silver,Beef,soybean,milk,etc are at an all time high.
So no problems,there.
One of the many articles of support for Argentina in the South Atlantic!
http://books.google.ca/books?id=sXrjNCYzlPMC&pg=PA101&lpg=PA101&dq=self+determination+to+the+falklands?&source=bl&ots=3tZ5RSNp53&sig=wYXjZm4ctxjGImJ64wrKX-z2siY&hl=en&ei=hPZZTbeOE8Wclgev8IHNDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CFkQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=self%20determination%20to%20the%20falklands%3F&f=false
If you are happy,red,spending YOUR MONEY on Malvinas,I am happy!!
I do not know what you can get back,but it is Ok with me!
Regards
Malvinas, still does not exist.
Feb 16th, 2011 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but the british falklands do.
157 Tte Estevez
Feb 16th, 2011 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've read the whole thing.
One thing emerges very clearly, and that is that resolution 1514 protects us from domination and subjugation by a foreign power. That's you, sorry.
The other thing is that your argument relies on this being an integral part of your territory. Which it isn't, and never has been.
If you ever looked like getting anywhere with your claim, we would declare independence and that would be game over. So it's utterly pointless.
Se Ester - you haven't quoted the Charter. It's here http://www.falklands.info/history/resolution1514.html
Feb 16th, 2011 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and here
http://www.falklands.inf
What you've quoted is an opion on it ... NOT RELEVANT
So you are wrong about self determination. If you want to argue on these pages you are going to have to do better than that!
@Be serious
Feb 17th, 2011 - 12:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are really more stupid than what I thought.
The point was to prove that they consider England=Britain and the key points were “English Prime Minister David Cameron” there isn’t any English Prime Minister else British Prime minister, doesn’t matter where he was born. You don’t say the Hawaiian president say in the G20 America is broke in a clear allusion to Obama. Haha.
The other key point is “The multiculturalism of the English’s state have failed” They are not refereeing to England else GB.
“flatulent Argentinians to translate for you”
I didn’t use any translator idiot I learned 5 languages one of them was Italian and them call you in every day conversation Inglese (masculine singular) Inglesi (masculine plural).
@Zethee
“Each of those countrys have a seperate word for British Nico”
Yes from the “Latin Britannicus” like the name of the son of emperor Claudio “Tiberius Claudius Caesar Britannicus” “Britannicus was born Tiberius Claudius Germanicus on February 12, AD 41, only a few weeks after his father became the emperor Claudius. His name was changed to Tiberius Claudius Caesar Britannicus after the Roman conquest of Britain in AD 43.”
http://www.roman-emperors.org/britty.htm
So in Spain is británico, in Argentina británico, in Italy is britanico, France britannique, etc
Come on mates Britain is England and the rest don’t exist sad but is like this. Change your name to England and you will save a lot of explanation.
: )
Really,red: I am not a lawyer,but specifically,the resolutions,1514,para 6,regards to the Falklnads/malvinas case,Gibraltar,Mayote and others,DOES NOT APPLY THE PRINCIPLE OF SELF DETERMINATION.
Feb 17th, 2011 - 02:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Territorial integrity overrides those cases
http://books.google.ca/books?id=cNKtX4mYVZUC&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=1514+resolution+applied+to+falklands&source=bl&ots=i8FiqSTqBW&sig=D_kh26NYSpHaTvpjFlGxVeVSQ4I&hl=en&ei=q4BcTaGSD8P78Abmg-HaDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=1514%20resolution%20applied%20to%20falklands&f=false
Monty:If you ever looked like getting anywhere with your claim, we would declare independence and that would be game over. So it's utterly pointless.
really, Monty? Why do not get the independence,really independent?
Do you think a desolate Island,I really care?
The only thing I do not want is extracontinental powers.
In any case,I do not put a dime in Europe.
Just by looking at the history of them..
Other than that,you can do anything you want...
One thing emerges very clearly, and that is that resolution 1514 protects us from domination and subjugation by a foreign power.really? How many times uk has tried to invade Argentina in the past?
Argentina imperialist?
Do you really think?
Who had the empire?uk or Argentina?
Pathetic thinking....
@157
Feb 17th, 2011 - 02:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Printed in 1987 it is also out of date, in 2010 the ICJ has ruled on Kosovo, specifically placing self-determination above both sovereignty and territorial integrity.
The 2010 ICJ Kosovo ruling effectively fatally holes any modern day argument that Argentina has regarding 'implanted people', and 'contiguous territory', and Argentina clearly knows it would fail to win any ICJ Court appearance before the Kosovo ruling, because it has never taken its 'legitimate claim' to the ICJ.
Argentina probably is aware that the following is true, even if it won't admit it in public; the 1850 Convention of Settlement effectively ended any dispute between Argentina & the UK over the Falkland Islands, and the result of the 1982 Conflict ended the renewed Revisionist/Peronist/Irredentist big lie claim of the 1930s-40s.
Everything else is bullshit.
You really need to quote more up-to-date sources.
“ ... 6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and their territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations......”
Feb 17th, 2011 - 02:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wireless beat me to it, but I agree that any opinion not made in light of the ICJ's decision on Kosovo is worthless.
Over the Falklands Islands, Argentina has never had 'national unity' or 'territorial integrity' so section 6 DOES NOT apply to the Falkland Islands - specifically or generally.
This bit DOES however - “ ... 2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development....”
ALL PEOPLES - note that well, it is important!!!
Yes all peoples, it is important....the Chagossians for example.
Feb 17th, 2011 - 03:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0British hypocrisy astounding!
Still straying from the thread MoreCrap ... must be the problems you have concentrating :-)
Feb 17th, 2011 - 04:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Still, even the Chagos question is rather more complicated that it would first appear - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depopulation_of_Diego_Garcia
So many of the Chagos islanders have now been compensated twice and opted to live in the UK. There is some suggestion that what they really want is to be compensated a 3rd time! But then I am just an old cynic !!
I do wonder how many will actually return if they get the chance ... idyllic lifestyles are not always what they are cracked up to be....
“if they get the chance” You got that one right.
Feb 17th, 2011 - 05:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0So what are you suggesting Marcos Alejandro (with the Spanish name). That we treat the Falkland Islanders like we treated the Chagossians??? If we handed the Falklands over to Argentina without their consent we would be treating them EXACTLY like we treated the Chagossians. That is what you are advocating. Either you support the Chagossians right to self determination and therefore you HAVE to support the Falkland Islanders right to self determination or you don't. Which is it?
Feb 17th, 2011 - 07:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0@167 & 168, answer the man,Marcos.(if you can)!
Feb 17th, 2011 - 09:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0@156 Marcos, only you, uneducated, call us pirates.
firang means foreigner and you forgot a few-U Dai Loc for example.
and we called our own sailors-Limeys. on account of the limes they were issued with to prevent scurvey.(you did know that, didn't you Marcos?)
l don't care what you call us---you still won't get the Falklands!
Now this IS important -
Feb 17th, 2011 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ ... Having previously set up a brewery in the Falkland Islands on behalf of Leicester-based brewer Everards...”
http://www.thepublican.com/story.asp?sectioncode=16&storycode=69081&c=2
Tiberius Claudius Caesar Britannicus after the Roman conquest of Britain in AD 43.”
Feb 17th, 2011 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0was this not dec AD42, ah well you must know what you are talking about .
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=Self-determination+and+national+minorities+td+musgrave&btnG=Search&as_sdt=2000&as_ylo=&as_vis=1
Feb 17th, 2011 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0p.239
Since the Second World War a number of states have laid claim to territories which they allege to have been detached from them as a result of colonisation. As legal justification for such claims Paragraph 6 of Resolution 1514(XV) has been cited. Paragraph 6 provides that any attempt “aimed at partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter”. This paragraph it is argued, applies to situations in which the territorial integrity of a state has been disrupted as a result of colonisation, so that a return of the territory in question simply restores the state to its original condition. This means that the inhabitants of a territory claimed on the basis of historical title are precluded from exercising a right to self-determination...Although Paragraph 2 of Resolution 1514 (XV) provides that “all peoples have the right to self-determination”, in cases of historical title paragraph 6 would pre-empt paragraph 2....
Many states reject this interpretation, arguing that paragraph 6 cannot be read to justify territorial claims. The purpose of paragraph 6 they contend was simply “to ensure that acts of self-determination occur within the established boundaries of colonies, rather than within sub-regions”. This is the position, for example, of the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom has pointed out that the use of the word “attempt” in paragraph 6 connotes future action, and that paragraph 6 cannot therefore be construed to justify territorial redress for past actions. Its aim is rather to protect ”colonial territories or countries that have recently become independent against attempts to divide them...at a time which they are least able to defend themselves. This interpretation makes paragraph 6 subordinate to paragraph 2, so th
Comment removed by the editor.
Feb 17th, 2011 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0mmmmm but this does not apply to Argentina,
Feb 17th, 2011 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0she only excepts what she understands.
she has her own agendas that state she can claim anything.
rubbish we know, but try telling Argentina that.
Briton: I have been reading all their interventions in the forum, and but there that he/she is right or not, for you all that you/they say contrary to their arguments and views is GARBAGE. You that he/she says that it is so sublime, well educated, and champion of the reason and the morality treats all the Latin Americans in general and to the Argentineans in particular, without distinction like GARBAGE. He/she imagines you that we THINK of you... I don't answer him with the same caliber that YOU use for respect to the other florists for not putting on to the same baseness that YOU LEARN of the forista J.A. Roberts and other Englishmen that in spite of not agreeing with us, you dirije with objectivity and respect toward us. Is it a lot to request for you?
Feb 17th, 2011 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Raul, I think you'll find that you need to earn respect here
Feb 17th, 2011 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Repeating baseless allegations, parroting what you have been taught at school in Argentina without giving the facts a moment's notice and completely ignoring the human rights of the Falkland Islanders is not going to earn you any respect.
So far, what you have written has done nothing more than earn you disrespect. Start backing up your assertions with a bit of logic and the facts and you'll see that change.
'florists' .... Rolly get another translation programme!!
Feb 17th, 2011 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing you have said has made sense ... although in all fairness that seems to go for most RG statements here!
175 Raul piss off
Feb 17th, 2011 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0dont annoy me
like J A ROBERTS says earn your respect and listen to what is being said.
an opinion is just that, a joke or ribbing is just that, unlike the brits and some argie bloggers if you cant tell the difference dont bother,
I cant kep on explaining how this works, nothing i have said is insulting to anyone, I am always polite, a bit of ribbing and high pranks is good for the sole, and good relplys, good or bad.
so go back to school
learn the difference, and STOP taking things personaly, get it [savvy]
162 Tte Estevez
Feb 17th, 2011 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“One thing emerges very clearly, and that is that resolution 1514 protects us from domination and subjugation by a foreign power.really? How many times uk has tried to invade Argentina in the past?
Argentina imperialist?
Do you really think?'
Who had the empire?uk or Argentina?
Pathetic thinking....”
Are you not a foreign power? Do you not want to dominate an subjugate us?
Of course you are, and of course you do.
The only thing that is pathetic is your complete inabilty to see this from anyone else's point of view.We feel exactly the same way about this as you would feel if the UK was trying to take over Argentina.
I didn't call you imperialist, and the fact that Britain once had an empire is irrelevant. It certainly doesn't excuse what you want to do to us.
157 Tte Estevez (#)
Feb 17th, 2011 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Miguel Antonio Sanchez asks:
“If it were determined that British occupation of the Falkland Islands in 1833 was an illegal usurpation of Argentine territory, could the principle of self-determination be used 150 years later to legitimize the occupation?”, and then goes on to argue his points on the basis that it has been so determined when in fact it hasn't.
Those who argue that paragraph 6 is applicable to the Falklands are missing a fundamental flaw in their arguments, which is that, as well as being non-binding, UNGA resolutions are non retroactive:
http://www.ejil.org/pdfs/16/5/329.pdf
page 15
“The ICJ has clearly denied retroactive effect to both GA and SC resolutions.”
By the way, Resolution 1514 has been replaced by Resolution 2625
http://www.ejil.org/pdfs/16/5/329.pdf
“Nothing in the foregoing paragraphs shall be construed as authorizing or encouraging any action which would dismember or impair, totally or in part, the territorial integrity or political unity of sovereign and independent States conducting themselves in compliance with the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples as described above and thus possessed of a government representing the whole people belonging to the territory without distinction as to race, creed or colour.”
The language is clearly present and future, not past, and Argentina is not possessed of a government representing the Falklands.
Comment removed by the editor.
Feb 17th, 2011 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I see you've surpassed yourself again NicoDim...
Feb 17th, 2011 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Briton: There is not problem, I understood the difference, Carlos Tevez Hurts he leaves the Manchester…
Feb 17th, 2011 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0NicoDin: Thank you, now I understand better, although I like to believe in good faith (in the king magicians) of you see in when……
J.A. Roberts: Raúl, I think that you will find that you need to win I respect here:
I am not nobody, neither I am under conditions of giving him lessons of morality nobody, but the non alone respect is gotten thinking exactly as you he/she wants that we think, the respect is also achieved with the thought differences and the diversity. With the Unique thought that I tell it to him with respect that is the defect of the Anglo-Saxon thought in their group, (of course not everything) it is the root of this conflict, call you Imperialism in the political thing or Neoliberalismo in the economic thing. Each thought has its positive and negative, and applicable elements according to the context in that it evaluates it. To my humble one to understand that it is the main problem that has most of the Englishmen that live in the islands.
Ignoring the human rights of the Islanders of Falkland completely won't win it any respect.
Although YOU don't believe it many Argentineans that unfortunately are not expressed it is this forum, they think of the human rights of the Islanders of Falkland to give him a satisfactory solution. We have suffered it with 30.000 missing persons and concentration fields of it finishes it dictatorship, but I eat I responded him in a previous message, although YOU don't believe it, England collaborates with Galtieri before 1982, in the implementation of the state terrorism with material, technology (purchase of ships and airplanes) and personnel trained in tortures and disappearances in its experience in the fight against the I Exercise Irish Republican. Discover in the Web of International Amnesty, Mothers and Grandmothers of square of May, Pérez Esquivel and of other organizations of Internat
169 lsolde, “ Marcos, only you, uneducated, call us pirates” Piratas nena no pirates.
Feb 17th, 2011 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UYnuOa0ui4
My favorite one Isolde is Inselaffen
This is a term that the Germans lovingly call the English. It means Island Monkey, evolution did not quite hit the coast of Great Britain :-)
168 J.A. Roberts, (The man obsessed with first name origins),
The Chagossians return to their homeland and the return of Malvinas to Argentina has nothing to do with self determination and everything to do with the return of stolen property.
Raul, I'm sorry, I don't really understand what you are trying to say in your first paragraph, the translation is poor.
Feb 17th, 2011 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I never said you were a nobody. Where did I say that? All I said is if you want respect here you need to earn it. You can't automatically expect it - ESPECIALLY when you post unsubstantiated assertions and allegations.
For example:
- “Mercopress is a tool of the United Kingdom”. What proof do you have of this? Can you back your assertion up with facts?
- “Vernet was expelled from the Falklands in 1833”. This is untrue. Vernet was not in BsAs in 1833, so he could not have been expelled.
- “Argentina's claim to the Falklands is uninterrupted since 1833”. This is simply false. Argentina dropped her claim in 1850. It was not mentioned again through official channels until 1945!!! It was not mentioned in the Message to the Argentine Congress from 1850 until 1945!
Then when I point out the glaring flaws in that paper by Bologna you tell me to stop being disrespectful. Is that because you cannot defend what the paper asserts in the face of facts? Why is it that you cannot provide reasoned argument backed by facts in response? Is “don't disrespect me” really the best you can do?
As for Britain “collaborating” with the Argentine dictatorship, that could not be further from the truth. You PAID for British material and technology on the open market. The ARA Belgrano was bought from the US. Most of your navy's current ships were sold to you by the Germans. That does not in any way make the UK, the US or even the Germans responsible for your own internal “problems”. I don't remember you rising up against it (like the Egyptians have against theirs). In fact I remember people delirious with joy when the Falklands were invaded. Nobody was complaining about dictatorship then. The dictatorship was your dictatorship. You take collective responsibility for what it did and stop blaming everything which has gone wrong in Argentina on others!
Falklands War ,,
Feb 17th, 2011 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0War started on Friday, 2 April 1982
Argentine surrender on 14 June 1982
It is the most recent external conflict to be fought by the UK without any allied states and the only external Argentine war since the 1880s.
The British had 34 Harrier aircraft against approximately 122 jet fighters, of which was , in Argentina's air forces during the war The U.S. Navy considered a successful counter-invasion by the British to be 'a military impossibility'.[22]
Position of third party countries
Or allies.
Great Britain =The USA provided political . They also discreetly provided the United Kingdom with military equipment ranging from submarine detectors to the latest missiles
France provided political support
intelligence also worked to prevent Argentina from obtaining more Exocets on the international market.[31]
New Zealand sent a frigate to relieve a British ship in the Indian Ocean, thus assisting the Royal Navy
Chile gave support to Britain in the form of Intelligence
Argentina =Peru and Venezuela sent aircraft spare parts, Brazil leased two P-95 maritime patrol aircraft and Israeli IAI advisors
The Soviet Union provided intelligence on British military movements
supply by Libya of strela 2 missiles
Neither state officially declared war
Surrender of Corbeta Uruguay
On 20 June the British retook the South Sandwich Islands, (which involved accepting the surrender of the Southern Thule Garrison at the Corbeta Uruguay base) and declared hostilities to be over
[wiki]
This then is possibly what happened, but does Argentina except this to be truth .
[183 Raul
Ok mate no hard feelings ok.
@184 Marcos, maybe you are right, about lnselaffen, although l never heard it when l was in Germany. ln fact the German people that l encountered were very friendly & happy that the UK was in NATO with them. everybody has (sometimes not nice)names for other nationalities.
Feb 18th, 2011 - 09:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0A lot of Germans called Latin people “schwartz mann” l'll leave for you to translate! Marcos
l've heard enough“piratas,aliens,etc etc ad nausem” from you crowd to realise what you think of us. And you know what? l don't care. you don't scare me. you are incompetent, you are liars, you are cowards & you have no honour. you dig up every little bit of dirt you can. in short, you are despicable poltroons. there is no way we will ever let you take our lslands, so get lost.shoo, scram, be off with you! get ready for your new masters(Brazil), learn Portuguese.
@ Marcos Alejandro (yes, I like to remind people of your implanted Spanish origins). Stolen property? I don't think so. The Falklands never belonged to Argentina.
Feb 18th, 2011 - 10:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0And on the topic of stolen property, when will Argentina be returning all the territory in Patagonia and elsewhere it stole from the native South Americans.
161 Not only are you a foreign fool, you are also rather unpleasant. But I have no time to teach you proper English you unsavoury Argentine Gimp.
Feb 18th, 2011 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ Be serious
Feb 18th, 2011 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hey Mohammed, be serious please.
“Not only are you a foreign fool”
Foreigner where?
Shut up please and return to monkeyland.
190 Look I don't want to be unkind because I'm British and we are renowned the World over for our sense of fair play and tolerance. However until you improve your English language skills, further discourse between us is impossible. I appreciate you are trying your hardest but you have simply not reached the required standard and are not showing any signs of improvement. So with the best will in the World - GSY.
Feb 18th, 2011 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0His English doesn't bother me much. The racism, ignorance, stupidity and general lack of knowledge, however...
Feb 18th, 2011 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0191 Be serious (#). I love to be unkind to them, I cant think of a country or its people that deserve my unkindness more than these people. As Zethee says their racism, their ignorance, their stupidity, their general lack of knowledge is spellbinding.
Feb 18th, 2011 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now listen you uneducated little creeps, we don't care what you think you know of Falklands, notice I said the Falklands and not other name you call it, we don't care what your feelings are towards the Falklands, we dont want nothing at all to do with you at all. You lie, you cheat, you are everything a British person is not. You decimated a indigenous population to get what is now Argentina. In fact your predecessors decimated the whole of South America apart from Brazil that is of course Portuguese. No one trusts you in that part of the world, they tell you one thing and will always stab you in the back when your not looking.
So good luck with your no hope quest of the Falklands in the futue, Oh a word of warning though, next time you think of invading a small island that belongs to Britain, make sure that you send your best troops and not some third rate ones that shouted for their Mommy's when they they came under fire. Even when we came under fire from the few better special force troops that you sent we saw them of and captured them the last time, Oh and make sure that you send out a few more ships so that we can sink them, don't let them sit in the harbour sulking, our subs can do with more target practice.
Well its goodbye from me, I wont be posting any more posts I have said all there is to say on the matter of the Falklands, those very British Islands in the South Atlantic.
Hope Mr. Peter Pepper send notes for an academic debate because in London in 2007 did not see it, was not there.
Feb 18th, 2011 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'll be happy in the audience to ask some questions.
This man moralist fails to mention the massacres carried out by his country in the world. The Welsh came to Argentina because they were persecuted by the English, having customs, religion and different language. Is a hypocrite.
March 1833, Argentina's flag flies again in Port Soledad.
Drawing of Conrad Martens, Lord Pepper.
Zoom on the second picture
http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?itemID=F1571&viewtype=image&pageseq=100
I'm not so sure Malvinense. The second picture is a bit indistinct, but when I zoom in on the third one it's definitely the Union flag.
Feb 18th, 2011 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On the subject of massacres, why don't you ever mention the many and varied massacres carried out by Argentina. Let's start with the Conquista del Desierto for instance, or maybe the Napalpi Massacre. Not to mention all those people who “disappeared”...
Oh and the Welsh might have been persecuted 150 years ago but you obviously have not been to Wales recently. You can't have an 19th century solution to an 19th century problem in the 21st century.
Malvinense 1833
Feb 19th, 2011 - 12:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Re: yr 194
Perhaps you should look at : http://www.falklands-malvinas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2696
I'll quote David A Barrow's posting:
“Conrad Martens se unió a la expedición a fines de 1833, así que no es posible que haya ilustrado lo que Darwin vió en Marzo 1833
http://www.falklands-malvinas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2696
La tercera ilustración a color
http://www.falklands-malvinas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2696
Lo rojo parece indicar que es una bandera británica”
Kindest regards from the Falkland Islands
The Welsh came to Argentina because they were persecuted by the English
Feb 19th, 2011 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0if this is so, then why did the english go , who persecuted them [argentina ??]
Malvinense 1833, No need to zoom, clearly is an Argentinian flag on that drawing by Conrad Martens, Lord Pepper.
Feb 19th, 2011 - 12:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Isolde, I speak some Portuguese and three other languages already.
This may help you Isolde:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB9yYxape2I
J.A. Roberts, read your own bloody history, makes Hitler look like an angel.
no flag, as argentina did not exist then and did not have a flag like that.
Feb 19th, 2011 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0most of us brit bloggers can speak almost 5 difference languages
1, american,2, australian,,3,new zealander, 4,canadian, 5,british/english.
see now who is cleaver lololol
Briton, “La bandera argentina fue creada por Manuel Belgrano el 27 de febrero de 1812, durante la gesta por la Independencia de las Provincias Unidas del Río de la Plata”
Feb 19th, 2011 - 01:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Translate to: The Argentinian flag was made by Manuel Belgrano february 27 1812, during the war of independence of United Provinces Of Rio de la Plata(nowadays Argentina)
yeah had a flag , but no country to go with it until many years afterwards, if you suggest Argentina was a unified country at 1833 you need a kicking Marcos...
Feb 19th, 2011 - 03:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0@198Marcos, you have sent this video before. have you no imagination?
Feb 19th, 2011 - 07:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0thats nice to know how educated you are, l also speak 3 languages fluently and can get by in 3 more. but you had better perfect your Portuguese so you can greet your new masters when they take over your country. and why not? you shower are not doing anything constructive with it.
@201YDG, Marcos will say anything to further his cause as he is a liar.
@ lsolde
Feb 19th, 2011 - 07:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0I miss you.
♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥
@ Be serious
Do you mean learning English to speak like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiSsAOV6MvQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiSsAOV6MvQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiSsAOV6MvQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiSsAOV6MvQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiSsAOV6MvQ
Oh I think I should fire my English professor in UK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiSsAOV6MvQ
What do you think Mohamed? Can you teach me now?
@ Britishbulldog
Good bye mate.
@ briton
“if this is so, then why did the english go”
Because they were persecuted by these guys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiSsAOV6MvQ
Can you see now?
202 lsolde, “you have sent this video before” I know , I have to remind you every 28 days to drink milk.
Feb 19th, 2011 - 08:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0“so you can greet your new masters when they take over your country”
I can't wait for the garotas to do that.
203 Can't be bothered to open yet more of your ridiculous links. You are beyond hope and will remain an envious and pretentious foreign fool.
Feb 19th, 2011 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please note, our proud flag still flies proud and high over our beautiful Falkland Islands.
@Be serious
Feb 19th, 2011 - 10:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Please note, our proud flag still flies proud and high over our beautiful Falkland Islands.”
Don’t worry, we will take care of that soon.
By the way, for someone who wants to teach English to others, especially not them been mother tongue, ...How can I say... emm...
Your English sucks, have you noted that?
Where have you learned to write like this in Bombay?
Come on Be Serious I just can’t get enough of your stupidity.
“Your English sucks, have you noted that?
Feb 19th, 2011 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Where have you learned to write like this in Bombay?”
“Where did you learn to write like this, in Bombay?” *
Stones, Glass houses.
Seriously, i quote:
“”Criticizing someone's spelling or grammar on the internet is the last refuge of someone who doesn't have an argument.”
Well done Dean Street. The colour illustration pretty much nails it. More RG myth and deceit exposed.
Feb 19th, 2011 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh and Marcos Alejandro (with the implanted Spanish name), you are right, some of our HISTORY makes Hitler look like an angel. I never denied that. No right-thinking Briton would. But the key word is history. And whilst we're on the topic when one takes even a brief look at Argentine history, it's not exactly covered in glory. The Conquista del Desierto for a start, treating the “natives” like animals. Something you continue doing today. We banned slavery BEFORE you did. Not to mention your own citizens - even in the late 1970s (far more recent that when we were making Hitler look like an angel) you were treating your own people like scum, throwing them alive out of aircraft amongst other things. Not to mention the FACT that your constitution continues to discriminate on the basis of race TODAY in 2011! See Article 25. You don't exactly have the moral high ground, so best not to lecture others.
Now Indians can't write English properly? Nicodumarse....you really are Nick Griffins illegitimate spawnling :)
Feb 19th, 2011 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Don’t worry, we will take care of that soon”
-Malvinists have been saying that for a very long time ;)
What were the immortal words of Carlos Menem in 1998?
-“Malvinas Son Argentinas 2000...it is only a matter of time”
And those of the recently departed Nestor Kirchener?
“Malvinas Son Argentias son 2007....it is only a matter of time”
Or even the Botox Princess?
“The Malvinas will be recovered in my first term in office.....it is only a matter of time”
Do the words “soon” and “time” translate as “eternal” and “never” in Argentina?
Either that or Argentine timetables for the recovery of the Sacred Holy Malvinas are more flexible than any polymer known to mankind....i.e they seem to stretch longer after every president is elected :)
Or maybe your just saying that....because you need too hahah.
Meanwhile in the real world (not Nicodumes world ;)
The islands are still British, ruled by a democratically elected government but most of all the Union flag and the Falklands flag still flies over them..
206
Feb 19th, 2011 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You seem a trifle upset old chap. Nothing I've said I hope.
Anyway the War has been over for nearly 30 years and we are all good friends now. Goodness gracious me - how time flies.
can the south Americans look after things down there, or will the others have to come down and run things.
Feb 19th, 2011 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0south america the untoutched virgin , ripe, and ready for picking .
@Zethee
Feb 19th, 2011 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well something we agree on.
But... but... I saw some stupid Brits to play that card even of line when they haven’t arguments at all. haha
Like post #191 Be serious.
“Look I don't want to be unkind because I'm British and we are renowned the World over for our sense of fair play and tolerance. However until you improve your English language skills, further discourse between us is impossible. I appreciate you are trying your hardest but you have simply not reached the required standard and are not showing any signs of improvement. So with the best will in the World - GSY.”
Oh! Socrates have spoken haha
“Where did you learn to write like this, in Bombay?”
Bombay is Mumbai’s former name haha : ) and in Spanish is still Bombay. Cuack!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai
“”Criticizing someone's spelling or grammar on the internet is the last refuge of someone who doesn't have an argument.”
Copy & past of Isaac Asimov “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent” perhaps?
@ Rhaurie-Craughwell
“Now Indians can't write English properly? Nicodumarse....you really are Nick Griffins illegitimate spawnling”
Did I say that? Nope in fact many speak much better that local English you should know that better than me.
And Griffin cannot be my father he is too darky and the man is a joke : )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai
@ Be serious
Well if you don’t say more stupidities may be I will consider your friendship mate.
At the moment I’m alittle bit upset because Isolde (The lady I’m full in love with) doesn’t give me any sing that she cares for me.
Can you do something about it?
@196 Hi, Dean Street then, Martens drew the flag of Argentina in 1834!
Feb 19th, 2011 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The original drawings of the Malvinas are in color?
What's for lunch today, Saturday in the Falklands?
Kindest regards for you too.
They weren't drawings Malvinense. They were watercolours. And yes they were in colour.
Feb 19th, 2011 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.nmm.ac.uk/blogs/collections/PW6240.JPG
NicoDin: No esta solo en esta lucha. UD es un MAESTRO DE LA WEB¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
Feb 19th, 2011 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Face1354@hotmail.com
Roberts, the images of the watercolors are a english site, I did not invent anything, nor is it my intention to lie. It clearly says: Berkeley Sound and Port Louis. The watercolor that shows Dean is clearly not the flag of Argentina, but in black and white watercolors can be seen very well the three stripes flag. darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?itemID=F1571&viewtype=image&pageseq=100
Feb 19th, 2011 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Greetings.
Malvinense 1833
Feb 19th, 2011 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is true, they can be seen the three lines clearly very well.
Malvinense, it really makes no difference whether the site you link to is English or not. It shows printed reproductions in Darwin's book. Those “stripes” you mention could just as easily be the edges of the flag. Until you can find the original colour image we will not know if they are cerise “stripes” or not.
Feb 19th, 2011 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What's more, the third image in your link is a print of the watercolour by Conrad Martens. Once again I provide a link below to the original watercolour. The red in the flag is unmistakable.
www.nmm.ac.uk/blogs/collections/PW6240.JPG
Here are some of his other watercolours
http://www.nmm.ac.uk/blogs/collections/2009/02/conrad_martens.html
“But... but... I saw some stupid Brits to play that card even of line when they haven’t arguments at all. haha”
Feb 19th, 2011 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've seen you playing that “card” more than anyone latly. It's especially amusing you posting three paragraphs in another post insulting me because i made a spelling mistake while at the same time every single line in each paragraph was grammatically incorrect. Boasting about your Oxford education....Lol.
Copy & past of Isaac Asimov “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent” perhaps?
I'm unsure of where the quote first came from, I saw it in on another thread on another forum.
208 J.A. Roberts, “We banned slavery BEFORE you did”
Feb 19th, 2011 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“With the abolition of the slave trade in 1807 and the emancipation of all slaves throughout the British Empire in 1833, Britain washed its hands of slavery. Not so, according to Marika Sherwood, who sets the record straight in this provocative new book. In fact, Sherwood demonstrates Britain continued to contribute to and profit from the slave trade well after 1807, even into the twentieth century. Drawing on unpublished sources in areas of British history which have been previously overlooked, she describes how slavery remained very much a part of British commerce and empire, especially in the use of slave labour in Britain's African colonies. She also examines some of the causes and repercussions of continued British involvement in slavery and describes many of the shady characters, as well as the heroes, connected with the trade ' at all levels of society. After Abolition contains important revelations about a darker side of British history which will provoke real questions about Britain's perceptions of its past”
http://books.google.com/books?id=3HraAAAAMAAJ&dq=britain+and+slavery&hl=en&ei=JvpfTc_3FIHQsAOHl7jPCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAw
You don't exactly have the moral high ground, so best not to lecture others.
British: The masters of hypocrisy.
ive got only one thing to say to you argies .
Feb 19th, 2011 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Richard Hammond. [bbc1]
Total wipe out
Hello
Argentina the land of losers..
And deaf people that cannot hear
The Falklands are british .
Are you a bit thick Marcos?
Feb 19th, 2011 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We banned slavery in 1833. You banned slavery in 1853. That is 20 years after us, which means we banned slavery BEFORE you did.
Dunce!
and that means you carried on abusing the poor fellows .
Feb 19th, 2011 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hello chaps I am back again, thought I would come back and weigh in with slave debate
Feb 20th, 2011 - 03:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0In 1805 the House of Commons passed a bill that made it unlawful for any British subject to capture and transport slaves, but the measure was blocked by the House of Lords.
Argentina
Argentina did not have alarge slave population. Argentina declared the American slave trade an act of piracy (1824). Argentina and Columbia signed a Treaty with Britain committing to the total abolition of the slave trade and forbidding it in its own dominions (1825). The Argentine Confederation and Uruguay signed treaty with Britain with the same provisions as the 1835 Treaty with Spain (1839). Charles Darwin aboard the HMS Beagle did not find slaves in Argentina. He was horified at the ongoing genocide directed at Native Americans. [Darwin]
In February 1806, Lord Grenville formed a Whig administration. Grenville and his Foreign Secretary, Charles Fox, were strong opponents of the slave trade. Fox and William Wilberforce led the campaign in the House of Commons, whereas Grenville, had the task of persuading the House of Lords to accept the measure.
Greenville made a passionate speech where he argued that the trade was “contrary to the principles of justice, humanity and sound policy” and criticised fellow members for “not having abolished the trade long ago”. When the vote was taken the Abolition of the Slave Trade bill was passed in the House of Lords by 41 votes to 20. In the House of Commons it was carried by 114 to 15 and it become law on 25th March, 1807.
Comment removed by the editor.
Feb 20th, 2011 - 05:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0NicoDim. You know the rules here. English only. If you can't hack it get out.
Feb 20th, 2011 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0@J.A. Roberts
Feb 20th, 2011 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“NicoDim. You know the rules here. English only. If you can't hack it get out.”
Te gustaría no?
Pero la sección en español no está habilitada para postear mensajes. En cuanto la habiliten y la actualicen empiezo a postear allá. Qué te parece Roberto?
Saludos
212 Nicodumarse
Feb 20th, 2011 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0206 “Did I say that?”
------“Where have you learned to write like this in Bombay?”-------
It couldn't be more obvious if you painted it pink and put fairy lights on it Nicodumarse :)
Of course you've deployed damage control and are now saying:
“Nope in fact many speak much better that local English you should know that better than me”
(which i conceded is actually true)
“he is to dark for me”
Obviously the only bit of genetic code he imparted was his Xenophobia then numpty :)
“he is also a loser”
And thus the revelation unfolds....like father like son eh Nicolas?
I couldn't give a continental if the Spanish section doesn't allow comments NicoDim. You know the rules here. English or nothing.
Feb 20th, 2011 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0even here the argentinians cant,/wont obey the rules .
Feb 20th, 2011 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ive got only one thing to say to you argies .
Feb 20th, 2011 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Richard Hammond. [bbc1]
Total wipe out
Hello
Argentina the land of losers
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA!!
Really britton? check this out:http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyeb9Uv8VOE&feature=related
uk DEBT EXTERNAL;
$8.981 trillion (30 June 2010)
country comparison to the world: 3
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyeb9Uv8VOE&feature=related
Do not worry,anyways,britton,The Argentines are generous enough to let the brittons in our GREAT country Argentina,so you can eat properly.
Me not pueder anser becouse non good inglesh. Me solo can right in espanol senor
Feb 21st, 2011 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0typicle losers who cant justify their worth turn to crap.
Feb 21st, 2011 - 12:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0if thats your only answer. then losers you were,/losers you are,/ and losers you will always be, so carry on insulting LOSERS lol,
@briton
Feb 21st, 2011 - 02:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Dear sir,
I’m using a translator now but was not able to translate your post.
Sorry about that I only get a message saying “bad English cannot translate this crap”
Kind regards,
Dear sir,
Feb 21st, 2011 - 03:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0I’m using a translator now but was not able to translate your post.
Sorry about that I only get a message saying “bad English cannot translate this crap”
Kind regards,
Anyway,Nico,britton is useless,at the same level of the primates,with due respect to the primates.
You see the coincidences?Monolingual(only speak one language),monotematics,he is still obsesed with the empire,althougth it is over,they are bankrupt,lazy(that is the reason they are bankrupt),and the general knowledge is quite poor.
@Tte Estevez
Feb 21st, 2011 - 06:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Could you see Mr. Estevez the arrogance of these people trying to teach educated people like us languages when they cannot even handle to write a proper sentence in their own language?
I’m really astonished, shocked and perplexed for their ignorance and arrogance.
Anyway, I think not all is lost our proximity to the islands could bring some culture to the salvages.
I really hope so.
Kind regards,
DIM - those particular islands will always be a lot closer to Britain than they are to you :-)
Feb 21st, 2011 - 07:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0DIM & See Ester
You two may be examples of educated monkeys, but for certain you prove at least one proverb - ” ... Given enough time, a hypothetical chimpanzee typing at random would, as part of its output, almost surely produce one of Shakespeare's plays (or any other text)....”
It is obvious that you've got enough time, so keep trying children - one day you'll type some sense :-))
@ Redhoyt
Feb 21st, 2011 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Dear friend,
Even if I try harder I cannot understand your writing.
May be you need some more practice or some classes with a good English teacher.
I recommend you to ring as soon as possible this number 0300-37777724 to take advantage of the current promotion.
TV Pakistan English teacher offer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCJj_SCxXkU
Yours sincerely
NicoDin
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