MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina forgets the US Air Force incident and says relations are “excellent”
Relations between Argentina and the United States are ‘excellent’ said ultra ‘Kirchnerite’ lawmaker Carlos Kunkel who discarded as ‘interested parties’ versions indicating certain ‘discomfort’ in President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner administration with the coming visit of President Barack Obama to El Salvador, Chile and Brazil. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesLOL ... it's like Dallas .. it didn't really happen, it was all a dream LOL
Mar 13th, 2011 - 01:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Customs fault? I thought the foreign minister personally checked the cago. That is not a customs fault it is a political cock up/embarrassment. All because Obama was not visiting Argentina on his South American tour.
Mar 13th, 2011 - 07:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina appears to have a habit of changing the explanations or story. Is HMS Invincible still at the bottom of the Atlantic?
No Beef, but other 7 are.
Mar 13th, 2011 - 07:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Much of what Argentina says is based in fantasy ... a strange people!
Mar 13th, 2011 - 08:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0(3)HMS Invincible was not sunk but as you gleefully relate other RN ships were sunk and many brave UK servicemen were killed by Argentine facists.
Mar 13th, 2011 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina's credibility remains full of holes, just like the Belgrano.
I just can't believe what I'm reading! People on both sides of this story shouldn't make these kind of nasty comments, respect those brave soldiers who died defending their cause, the Belgrano is in the bottom of the see, we all know...the day is close, and both argies & falklanders will have to discuss about many important aspects regarding the peaceful future of your relashionship, please start to think with your minds, I hope that all of you guys can live in peace & respecting each others, greetings from Holland :)
Mar 13th, 2011 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Malvin70 ! 70 is your birth date ?
Mar 13th, 2011 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0you're right,but there is no any British,Argentine,Falklander commentators here !
they make only agitation here.
Yul / Germany
I agree with Malvin70.
Mar 13th, 2011 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Beef #2:
“Customs fault? I thought the foreign minister personally checked the cago. That is not a customs fault it is a political cock up
/ embarrassment.”
The initial impoundment may have been related to the supposed snub by Obama, but there is no evidence of this (Wikileaks please).
This exposé by Argentina's Cabinet Chief Aníbal Fernández is damage limitation designed to keep Timerman in the Government.
Blaming the Costoms team calculatedly diverts responsibility from the Foreign Office Minister, Timerman.
Better to apologise the the USA and move on.
Timerman is now protected though some Argentinian Customs officials and one judge will lose their jobs.
“ ... the day is close, and both argies & falklanders will have to discuss about many important aspects ....”
Mar 13th, 2011 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0By God, now that's an optimist :-)
“ ... you're right,but there is no any British,Argentine,Falklander commentators here ... ”
Spot on yul .... what planet did you say you were from ?
i have same idea with #6 .
Mar 13th, 2011 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0if someone talk about on same subject by replicating permanently then
we should understand that they are malcontent and unbeliever on whatever their claims.
Malvin70 & Yul: Islanders the world over like their way of life and their isolation; toss two more ingredients into the cocktail - culture and ethnicity - and you have a “No Way José”.
Mar 13th, 2011 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Were the islands to be near the coast of either New Zealand or Australia, we might be talking another story
Mr Tim as you know, asVice-President of the Royal British Legion Buenos Aires, Malvinas is part of Argentina and South America not UK in Europe 14000 km away.
Mar 13th, 2011 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BniyC33QdjM
Falkland/Malvinas Island is neither a country nor UN member.
Mar 13th, 2011 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is just the military base of UK .
There should be discussed Northern Ireland , Wales, Scotland , Australia,New Zealand,Canada.. before Falkland/Malvinas Islands.
Like Briton said, say nothing deny everything and all will be well,
Mar 13th, 2011 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0trust me, there is more going on behind the scenes than he is prepared to tell as, but we can only guess why he changes his mind,, perhaps a visit from the men in black, or the men in white coats, we will never know,
but ones things for certain [IT NEVER HAPPEND OK]
(11) Tim
Mar 13th, 2011 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are certainly no impostor
But you are a perfect specimen of a recalcitrant British Argentinean gorilla “gentlemen”
Let’s look at some of your comments:
1) ”An armed intruder breaks into our house to rob or murder us …and we shoot him dead in self defense, we go to jail …….”
I wonder if you think that you can shoot intruders in Great Britain and walk free?
2) ”Nilda Garré who has decimated the Argentine armed forces; there are no planes to fly, the navy can hardly sail out of port and the army would have to resort to bows and arrows. Chile could overrun this country in 48 hours. Nilda Garré should be shot for leaving the country defenceless, an act of treason.”
How democratic…. Shooting the defense minister of an elected government for dismantling a sick military system and creating confidence between us and our neighbor countries. (I don’t know if you noticed but Chile has not invaded us…… neither has Brazil)
3) “There are two big differences between corruption in Argentina and the UK. One is the “quantum”, taking your bank manager out to lunch can be construed as attempted bribery; and secondly the manager would loose his job. Corruption is taken very seriously in the UK and you do get caught.”
Corruption is maybe the biggest problems of Argentina but…….. Don’t give us that sanctimonious fairytale about British cleanliness.
But… if you insist.
Please explain the personal fortune of Sir Mark Thatcher, offspring of ex British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. (estimated at ~ £ 70 million)
Or better jet....
The personal fortune of Tony Blair, ex British Prime Minister. (estimated at ~ £ 50 million)
Regards
El Think
(A first generation WASP* Argentinean with critical eyes, love and respect for the land I was born in.)
* The “A” does not stand for Anglo in this case
Think. First generation??? so you never lived through the Peronist regime??? As cattle breeders we probably have more respect for the country we live in than anybody else, we just can't stomach the systematic destruction of a country at the hands of the Peronists. My parents removed my siblings and myself from the country when school books started the indoctrination and brain washing on Evita and Peron, and when her version of Mein Kampf began to be obligatory reading at schools.
Mar 13th, 2011 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the UK if we shoot someone in self defence we don't go to jail.
Unfortunately my family had FOUR kidnappings at the hands of the ERP/Montoneros of which one was murdered. Do NOT expect me to be in favour of these leftie SOBs.
Nothing sanctimonious, corruption is endemic in Argentina and no way can you even begin to compare. As for Mark Thatcher, I know nothing about the fellow and neither am I interested, I don't even begin to contemplate persons with a total lack of integrity; as for Tony Blair I am not Labour and never have been; I already pointed out my views on Harold Wilson. As for Tony's personal fortune, having gone to Fetes it is highly probable that it was there from before otherwise he would have been investigated as has been Mark Thatcher.
(16) Tim
Mar 13th, 2011 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes…… First proud generation…….
As cattle breeder you probably have a great respect for the country(side) but your words evidentiate a profound contempt for Argentineans, our idiosyncrasy and our culture.
At our advanced age, (you sound even older than me) we both surely lived through a few things in Argentina.
I have always defined myself as an “Olof Palme School” Social-democrat, enough to be stigmatized by the likes of you as a “leftie SOB” and get disappeared…..
Enough of that………………..
Corruption is customary and ubiquitous in Argentina, Yesssss….
That’s why I’m as poor as a church mouse…
Are you rich, by any chance?
Cordiales saludos
El Think
Ah Marcos. When you have no valid reply you have to talk proudly about how your murderous dictatorship sank a few British ship. Are you equally proud of the numbers of Argentines that perished under their rule?
Mar 13th, 2011 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yep, your forces sank a few ships and killed some of our fine men/women in uniform. Did it do Argentina any good? No, you lost every battle and the war and drove a wedge between Argentina and the Islands. As a result the Falklands are part of the British identity and Britian is commited to uphold the Islander's wishes using any force we feel appropriate.
Argentina created this situation and is powerless to change it.
why are you poor, sr Think? weren't you smart enough to join the gravy train?
Mar 13th, 2011 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0so instead of using your energy to get rid of the corruption, you channel it in another direction, to get rid of us. porque? are we perceived as an easier target Cher Think?
Once, my family nearly bought a farm in Argentina. After reading some of the comments here l'm glad we didn't.
Think. As a camp man I have an utter contempt for the Porteño who tend to be aggressive, ill mannered and think they can run rough shod over everyone, and this contempt is extensive to everything that carries the name of Peron. I don't extend this contempt to the people of the interior who are a totally different ball game; and yes, due to convertibility I lost everything but frankly as an OAP I am past worrying and just make the best of life.
Mar 13th, 2011 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0hey my friends, such a long time without seeing you people!!!! how are you?
Mar 13th, 2011 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0number 17 is a “Communist” (a joke).
“customs fault” ? haha yeah, right!
“Relations between Argentina and the United States are ‘excellent’ said ultra ‘Kirchnerite’ lawmaker Carlos Kunkel” ? But wasn't Cristina de Kirchner an anti-imperialist? now she's happy because we have good relations with the Empire?... anyway... She's looking for another husband, be careful Presidents and PMs of the world, the black widow always kills her male post-mating!
xbarilox. That is one black widow I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, she probably has shark's teeth just where you don't want them.
Mar 14th, 2011 - 12:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 22 “she probably has shark's teeth just where you don't want them.” I know what you mean hahaha
Mar 14th, 2011 - 01:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Huracán meant something, at least that's what she wants us to believe. She will get backstabbed by Moyano one day, she owes him many favors, and he will get her to pay him, she's trapped and she knows it. She's repeating what she believes is an all time winning formula, first came Perón and Evita, after Néstor and Cristina and now is Cámpora and Cristina, Cámpora was a guy who Perón treated like s**t, she doesn't care because she knows her slaves will kill themselves if she aske them to haha These individuals, LOS MILITANTES, believe that if you are not a MILITANTE you are not an Argentine, aren't they cute? :)
18 Beef , I meant no disrespect, I was not in favor of that old war however I am getting tired of people like you bringing sarcastic questions over that war that killed so many on both sides, when you only care about the oil....well water so far.
Mar 14th, 2011 - 03:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0xbarilox. These militants have a big screw-up in their heads, if this country could be like the Church of Rome we could have them excommunicated. I knew Charlie Menem personally, and though he was an utter crook he was nothing as crooked as this bunch and at least he was intelligent and a lot of fun to be with. I have a picture of him hugging me profusely as he thought I was 100% Brit and he was hell bent on meeting the Queen which he eventually did, not that I had anything to do with it.
Mar 14th, 2011 - 04:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Tim, Did you meet Gillermo (William) Brown aswell?
Mar 14th, 2011 - 04:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BniyC33QdjM
@Marcos #24
Mar 14th, 2011 - 04:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0No... We only care about the islanders right to self determination - A human right, that you argentines say everyone should have, but then refuse to believe and/or accept that the islanders have that right too. Your country's existence is based solely on your right to self determination, which back in the early 1800's you had to fight for during your war of independence against spain. In other words your ancesters used self determination to gain and fight for independence from spain. So why do you argentines insist that the islanders have no right, surely by doing so you are copying Spains attempts in the 1800's to deny you country independence by denying that the islanders have the right to self determiantion.
As for the oil, well us in the UK will not see a penny off it, as all the profit from the oil will go to the falkland islands government and used to build better infastructure, services and the islanders with a financial interest in the oil companies (i.e shares etc) will make any private financial gains from the oil. But then so could anyone who invests in the oil companies regardless of where they live in the world. In other words, even argentines that have a financial interest in the oil companies will profit, though not directly from the oil but from the increasing value of the shares they bought.
You say you mean no disrepect to the war dead, yet your constant demands for the islands to be given to argentina regardless as to the islanders wishes is itself a complete disrepect to the war dead. Now because of argentina we are heading in the direction of repeating history, clearly argentina has not learnt its lesson from the past and as a result many more may die if their is a future conflict, all because argentina wants land that was never theirs regardless of the islanders wish to remain british, just like it was before 1982.
obviously that our World has seriously money hoarder UK problem !
Mar 14th, 2011 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0UK's total debts are 3,7 trillion US$...2,5 trillion of them is foreign debt.
..66% is in short term (derivatives)....
but; as Germany we have merely 1,5 trillion US $ foreign debt
(50% is in short term)....though two times of UK /GDP...
UK !! not likely possible EU with you !!
26 Marcos Alejandro . No, though my gt gt grandfather knew him well as they were neighbours.
Mar 14th, 2011 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(20) Tim:
Mar 14th, 2011 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say that, as an OAP, you want to make the “best of life”…….
What about revisiting some of your old clichés then?
Porteños vs Paisanos:
A “classic” one but….. Riddled with millions of exceptions.
You, being “Camp” but living in Olivos and fairly social active, know that.
I, from swanky Belgrano, but “quasi-eremite patagonian by choice”, know that too.
Peron:
What could be expected?……. A South American military man of its time… A thoroughbred fascist but……
He was elected by the people and strongly developed the land under those political premises.
He didn’t declare any wars or exterminated his political opponents either.
Carlitos Menem:
Met him in Bariloche in the 70’s.
He had a fascinating personality…. As most psychopaths do….
I know my psychopaths…..... Was married to one, once :-(
Los Kirchner:
A complex equation but……
Taking in consideration their 2003 “Starting Point”, they have my more than conditional approval because:
They tackle many of the basic “wrongs” of our country.
They are restructuring our Military and Police forces.
They are restructuring our unreasonable taxation and economic distribution system.
They are correctly closing the most shameful period of our history.(1976- 1983)
They are actively integrating us with all the other South American countries.
And, to finish, even their worst enemies can’t pinpoint or prove any blatant corruption.
Their proverbial “Luck in Business” and “Personal Fortune Increase” are more than annoying to me but “they hold in court”.
If you happen to have other info about the matter, I would be more than happy to see it............
27 Teaboy2 “all because argentina wants land”
Mar 14th, 2011 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I love how the Brits play the victim card, Britain sailed around the planet grabbing any land they possible could, Malvinas is a perfect example and in Buenos Aires they failed twice.
“ We only care about the islanders right to self determination ”
Suuuure, you did not care about that same right for the people of Hong Kong or Diego Garcia.
29 Tim “No, though my gt gt grandfather knew him well as they were neighbours.”
Where exactly? in la Recoleta?
Marcos Alejandro: Quinta Waterloo (our property) was on Defensa and Martin Garcia, and the land went from there across to where the British Hospital is now (no railway lines then); William Brown lived just across the fields, his wife Elizabeth Chitty was Anglican and a great supporter of the Anglican Church and there is a vitraux to her memory on the right side of St John's Cathedral + two more for the Brown family. Eliza Brown who drowned herself in the Riachuelo - after the death of her fiancée Francis (Pancho) Drummond in the war against Brazil - was buried in our original cemetery on Juncal 866.
Mar 15th, 2011 - 01:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0The move from the southern area to the north started with the Yellow Fever plague and later Cholera. It was at this time that the Chacarita Cemetery was built as there were so many deaths, and a train was run daily with the coffins along what is now Corrientes to the new Chacarita.
“Where exactly? in la Recoleta?” It looks like someone is poor, very poor and lives in Villa 31 without water, food and electricity, so he hates people living in Recoleta lol Boudou lives in Puerto Madero, wow, awesome and a lot more expensive than Recoleta :) Guess that someone hates Boudou too :)
Mar 15th, 2011 - 01:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Marcos #31
Mar 15th, 2011 - 01:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0One We attacked the spanish bounous aires as we were at war with them, so its a big difference between land grabbing and a legitemate battle of war. Fact is you condone us for what we did during the days of the empire and acts of colonalism in the 17-1800's, yet here you are doing the exact samething in 2011 by demanding the islands as yours regardless of the islanders wishes.
As for Hong kong - Get your dam facts right, the people of hongo kong where never british, they were chinese, the land was never british sovereingty but merely leased from china, that lease ran out so we had to hand the land back. As for diego Garcia - thats not something we are proud of and have condemed it, the government knows the british public will not allow it to repeats such acts. Hence why we stick up for the islanders right to self determination.
But nothing we did compares to the genocide in tierra del fuego of the native tribes between 1880's and 1910's, a genenocise that can only matched with that of the hologust. You wiped out intire civilisations so what does that say about your country when you consider the fact they are wanting to keep pushing for land that was NEVER THEIRS.
So tell me idiot, why do you think the islanders do not have the right to self Determination yet think the people of diego garcia (An non inhabited islands when discovered just like the falklands islands), did have the right to self determination, becase if you think the people of diago garcia did, and the falkland islanders do not have such right. Then you sir are noting but a pathetic HYPOCRITE.
32 Tim. Ahh ok, I thought he was his neighbour at the Recoleta cemetery where Almirante Guillermo Brown is buried.
Mar 15th, 2011 - 03:55 am - Link - Report abuse 033 xbananax, who's talking to you? When did your personality disorder symptoms start? First you are a Chilean, then Paraguayan, then a Tucumano living in Quilmes, and the best of all, now you say that Malvinas belong to Argentina but your first post was“ I'm an Argie and the islands belong to UK”
Teaboy, Read the history of your country before you write so many non sense things.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/jul/23/congo.comment
Teaboy2. The indians in Tierra del Fuego died mainly from white man's diseases. The big genocide was Gral Roca's “Desert Campaign” pushing the indians back to the Rio Colorado. You could probably argue that the deaths of the indians in the northern and northwestern provinces due to starvation and lack of medical care is also a form of genocide as the govt does nothing to revert this situation
Mar 15th, 2011 - 03:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Marcos #35 and i suggest you learn your own history before trying to tell me my own country's history for which i am well versed in. Relying on the gaudian instead of historical documents and official records of history is nothing short of amateurism, that does nothing but show your own lack of historical knowlegde via constantly googling babble and inaccurate wiki leaks pages written/edited to favour the view of the person who wrote or edited them. Also the facts are, the british no longer have an empire as a result of moving away from colonialism, where Argentina is still trying to colonise land that never belonged to them. One must wonder where they will turn their attention next, if they ever were to get the falklands islands - No doubt chile controlled tierra del feugo will be high up on the list.
Mar 15th, 2011 - 06:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Also marcos. Wheres argentina in world crisis i.e conflicts like kosvo and now libya, I geuss its another “oh leave it to the US, Britain, France and rest Europe and the world to secure peace and provide humanitarian support to such conflict zones”. You should be thankful to us, because if it wasn't for us, argentina would probably not exist now. Nazi South America and kirchner youth movement, such movement sounds like hitler youth to me!
@tim #36, True a lot did die from diesease, but alot where also killed and persecuted and/or forceable relocated to the Salesian mission of Dawson Island, where despite the efforts of the missionaries a lot still perished.
You make a good point about the native tribes in the northern provinces, as clearly your referring to present day where they are denied medical care and left to starve by the government, the same government that says the falkland islanders will be better of under them. Some how i expect that argentina will simply exploit the falklands economy and leave the islanders to the same faint as the present day natives in argentina. And people like marcos here, can't understand why the islanders prefer to be british.
@37Teaboy2-well said, that man! hear hear!
Mar 15th, 2011 - 08:30 am - Link - Report abuse 037 Teaboy2, BLAH BLAH BLAH,
Mar 15th, 2011 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Wheres argentina in world crisis i.e conflicts like kosvo and now libya”
Libya??? You got to be joking!
“Tony Blair our very special adviser by dictator Gaddafi's son”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1284132/Tony-Blair-special-adviser-dictator-Gaddafis-son.html#ixzz1Ggkw4CIx
Marcos #39 Speaking of ghaddfi - which nation is now the most vocal calling for a no fly zone over libya. Err Britain followed closely by france - Yet what country do you support, oh venezuela. Best mates are chavez, ghaddafi and kirchner and i bet kirchner backed chavez's plan to provide exile to Ghaddafi just like your country did to all those Nazi War criminals. And you wonder why the krichner youth Movement is named after the Hitler Youth Movement.
Mar 15th, 2011 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh look more newspapers clippings posted by marcos, Daily mail this time eh.
Sorry marcos, but while you country supports dictators that persecute and kill their own people in the masses (Which at the time of tony blair ghaddfi was not and libya was not much different to argentina was in 1970's -1983 - Making your point completely pointless). Oh that word persecution you'd know all about that from your persecution of the south american natives won't you.
Sorry marcos but your inability to counter with a sensible and constructive point of arguement, only proves your incompetence.
So no Marcos - i was not joking, i was serious. As it's pretty clear argentina like to talk tough but when it comes to conflicts such as Kosvo and libya, they look the other way and say “nah not our concern world peace, US and Uk and their allies can sort that”. Just like in ww2 and ww1. Though in ww2 atleast you had 750 volunteers that saw differently to your countries leadership, and were brave enough to sign up to the RAF and fight. Not like yellow bellies like you marcos that are all mouth and no action and run away and hide in your south american bolt hole of a country when war comes. As i said, if we and the allied forces had not won WW2 and WW1 youd be under nazi control by now. Though your already heading that way, the current kirchner government will see to that. Then you'll be crying out for british and american help then, won't you marcos. Idiot.
Teaboy2 (37). Thanks for the info on Dawson Is. Having read Lucas Bridges book I knew the Indians as Ona; Lucas is buried in the British Cemetery Chacarita. http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cementeriobritanico.org.ar%2Fperhistbritchacarita%2Flucasbridges.html&hl=en&ie=UTF8&langpair=es|en&langpair.x=10&langpair.y=7&langpair=es|en
Mar 15th, 2011 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0See also: http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cementeriobritanico.org.ar%2Fperhistbritchacarita%2Flucasbridges.html&hl=en&ie=UTF8&langpair=es|en&langpair.x=10&langpair.y=7&langpair=es|en
And yes, I am referring to the current situation of the native Indians in the Northern provinces. The Anglican Church have missions working up there, but they can't cope with all the Indian tribes. They are currently working in Salta with the Wichi and Toba tribes.
As for WWI and WWII; in the WWI over seven thousand volunteers went from here and WWII some four thousand, plus some two thousand from the Polish Community (mainly from Misiones). As you say some 750 went into the RAF and RCAF.
See: http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cementeriobritanico.org.ar%2Fperhistbritchacarita%2Flucasbridges.html&hl=en&ie=UTF8&langpair=es|en&langpair.x=10&langpair.y=7&langpair=es|en
Sorry this book is not available in English
40 Teaboy2 , “Marcos #39 Speaking of ghaddfi - which nation is now the most vocal calling for a no fly zone over libya. Err Britain ”
Mar 15th, 2011 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Brits released terrorist Megrahi in order to get major oil deals from Gaddafi, when they thought that the rebels were winning the Brits changed their support for them. Now Gaddafi is winning, so you bet your rear end that they want a non fly zone to protect their oil deal!
They did not care about the dead of hundreds of thousands of innocents civilians in Iraq to gain oil deals nor they care about the people from Lybia.
@marcus#42 Really marcus, well thats funny because it was the scottish govenment that released megrahi not the british or Uk parliment. He was dying so he was shown compassion and released. We had oil deals in place with libya long before that of the megrahi release, though his release on compassionate grounds would have no doubt help british business secure furture deals, it does not by any means conclude the government was activitively negoatiating such business deals, as they were not. BP was, and BP is a multinational company, so i fail to see how the british government would benefit from any such oil deal between BP and Libya.
Mar 16th, 2011 - 03:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0We wanted to setup a no-fly zone right at the start when the rebels were first attacked by libyan warplanes, which was 3 weeks ago, when the rebels were still advancing and looking to take tripoli, not when they were retreating and ghaddfi looked like winning like you claim to be the case. I suggest you check your facts first before making such inaccurate comments that border on absurd. At least we're doing something to put a stop to ghaddfi attacking his people - what are you doing other then making accusations against those of us that want to protect the libyan people? Nothing, your just sat on your arse with your finger up it. As for iraq, well we didn't do it for the oil we did it because he was sponsering terrorism and was believed to have WMD that he had used against his own country men not long after the first gulf war. So hussian was a threat that needed to be taken out in my opinion as he perscuted his own people constantly even feeding some to his dogs.
@Tim #41 thanks for the links Tim ill have a read of through it later. Your right there was number of thousands of argentines that fought in both world wars, though i only mentioned the 750 that fought in the RAF in WW2 as an example to marcus and those here like marcus that some argentines are not yellow like him, but also share the same believes and desire for freedom as us.
'He was dying so he was shown compassion and released.'
Mar 16th, 2011 - 04:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0suuuuuuuuure!
@Marcus # 44 you are pathetic, your not able to produce a constructive argument, and simply revert to nit picking. As for Megrahi, hes in a coma and has been since december 2010. The problem with predicted life expectency for people that are terminally ill, is that its impossible to be accurate, many people given just 6 months to live have lived for 2-3 years or more after being told they only had 6 months. So yes he was released on compassionate grounds by the scottish government. And as it was the scottish government that released him, it had nothing to do with westminster of the UK government or parliment. So it was an independent decision made by the nation of scotland, and not the united kingdom.
Mar 16th, 2011 - 07:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not only that, it is no concern of yours or argentina's what we do with terrorist such as megrahi that committed act's of terrorism within our country. Besides whats the latest on the arrest and presecution of those that petrol bombed the HSBC bank in argentina last year, have they been brought to justice yet or is your government not looking for them? Talk about double standards marcos, you condem us for releasing megrahi, yet you do not even bother to bring terrorist in your own country to justice. I suspect since they attacked a british company your government is more in support of them and hence the lack of any prosecution for their actions. Idiot.
Teaboy,
Mar 16th, 2011 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0re: HSBC being a British company (#45),
HSBC used to be called the Hong Kong & Shanghai Banking Company. Though it has branches in the UK it is by no means (only) British . . . . . . a bit like BP !
You are right about *Scotland* having primacy in law in the Magrahi release.
Geoff.
Teaboy. I am the Vice Chairman of the Buenos Aires Branch of the RBL
Mar 16th, 2011 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#45
Mar 16th, 2011 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has a novel solution to terrorism such as the hijacking of aeroplanes. It gives terrorists a state pension
http://en.mercopress.com/2009/07/22/pensions-for-argentine-members-of-failed-attempt-to-capture-the-falklands-i
@Geoff #46 - Thanks for the correction there, my error was based on their HQ being based in London - So i should have said british based coperation.
Mar 16th, 2011 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Tim #47 - It's pleasing, to see there are people like yourself actively supporting the RBL and veterans of conflicts over there along with current service personnel. Which is more than can be said for the likes of Marcos, no doubt he and others like him here would condem you for supporting the Royal British Legion. Keep up the good work.
@Justin #48 - Great find, wonder what rubbish marcos comes out with to counter what you said in your post. Though i suspect he is more likely to make a insult to you, me, and others here, than he is to make a constructive comment.
Scott Hardy's father lives here in Rosario.
Mar 16th, 2011 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/LanceCorporalScottHardyAndPrivateJamesGriggKilledInAfghanistan.htm
Last Remembrance Day Service, held at St John's Cathedral, we decided to make it a service of Remembrance and Conciliation and the German Ambassador was invited to read one of the lessons for the first time. We had all our NATO allies Ambassadors and Defence Attachés with all their flags right across the altar of the cathedral and each one read out the names of the last 25 fallen in Afghanistan. When it came to Col. Mike Page RM he read out only one name, to represent all the British fallen, that of Scott Hardy, and his father wasn't expecting it. It was a highly charged and emotional moment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103
Mar 16th, 2011 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
Mar 16th, 2011 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And the old men march slowly, all bent, stiff and sore
The forgotten heroes from a forgotten war
And the young people ask, ”What are they marching for?”
And I ask myself the same question
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqU8187oyko
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/10/01/argentina-grants-political-asylum-to-former-chilean-guerrilla
Mar 16th, 2011 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not only does it grant state pensions to state sp0nsored terrorists but asylum to murderers from Chile.
@Tim #50. Ignore Think hes a worthless person and clearly forgets that if it wasn't for brave service men that we remember on rememberance day, the chances are think along with millions of others would not have been born.
Mar 17th, 2011 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0So @Think #52 - Your post is nothing short of insult to the memory of the fallen and to that of those that fought to protect your freedom. they scarificed their lives so idiots like you who take advantage of the freedom they fought for everyday could live. You are a pathethic little man, because not only were they marching for their lost bothers in arms but for all service men and women both fallen and still fighting and witnessing things you can not even comprehend to imagine on daily basis, not just those from ww1 and 2 but in all conflicts since then including your own argentine service personnel that fought in the falklands.
@Justin #53 Guess me and you wont be going to argentina for a while then, no doubt plastic face will have hired those men to sort us out for our comments abot her on here lol.
@Marcus #51 - posting links to wiki again eh. Why dont you buy shares in wiki and start posting adverts using adwords youd make fortune from the money you make for each link that is clicked. As for the link you posted, well being british myself, i know all their is to know about the lockerbie bombing, so your posting a link to the wiki page is a complete waste of time, as it does nothing to prove you argument and makes you look dumb, since you posted the link without saying your reason for it or why you thought it was relevant to tell post a link that only serves to tell us what we ourselves already know about the lockerbie bombing. Though it has nothing to do with what justin said in post #48, and i suspect it was just a lame pathetic response to what justin had said in his post. So do us a favour Marcos, go offline until you have something construtive to say and add to the debate.
52 Think
Mar 17th, 2011 - 12:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0We haven't forgotten the war or the heroes.
Teaboy2 & Monty69, thank you, you have answered Think for me. I have now held two ceremonies at the Cenotaph to the Argentine fallen in Plaza San Martin, with piper and poppies. Sadly there was no honour guard on the two occasions I went, though last week I saw they were back, no doubt 'cause Nilda Garré is no longer Minister of Defence.
Mar 17th, 2011 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0The majority of the boys that were taken were recently conscripted from the northern provinces of Corrientes and Chaco; a great many were ignorant and illiterate and they knew not where they were going. Their NCOs out of fear of mutiny regaled them with terror stories about the British and the Gurkhas, and any sniff of a problem and they were staked out naked in the freezing rain. I have spoken to many in Corrientes and some told me that had they known they would have turned their guns on their NCOs. The officers didn't lead their troops but sat at the back giving orders.
“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them”.
The Kohima Epitaph
“When you go home, tell them of us, and say:
For your tomorrow we gave our today”.
@Tim #56 You are right, it is well known that the argentine military NCO's treated their men poorly, and acts of torture and killing of their own men for simply falling a sleep on duty happened during the falklands war. I suspect that the majority of them did not even want to be at war with britain, let alone be part of it. And then to top it all off, after the war they are simply pushed aside and forgotten about by their own government and people and only used for propaganda when the government starts their rhetoric about the islands - which in my opinion is a down right shameful thing to do and any argentine using the memory of their soldiers here as a form of rehtoric, as many have, should be ashamed of themselves. As for Think, well it was a pleasure to give him a boot in backside and put him in his place, for his shameful post.
Mar 17th, 2011 - 03:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0you've stepped on too many toes this time, Think.
Mar 17th, 2011 - 09:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0about time you pulled your head in. you deserve all that you get.
You want to project your pacifism onto us in the vain hope that we won't resist you. Well it will not work. Are we meant to feel guilty because we will defend ourselves from our belligirent neighbour?
You have sunk to a new low, snr Think.
Teaboys. If you are thinking of visiting the country don't worry; take no notice of Plastic Face, we all turn off our TVs when she comes on, her voice gets our teeth on edge and her face is a veritable Willie shriveller.
Mar 17th, 2011 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A lot of British tourists are coming in and no problems, it is a great country and well worth while getting to know; just keep off the subject of the islands unless you are talking to somebody highly educated, preferably a historian - and then you can have a long chat.
(56) Tim
Mar 17th, 2011 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are a refreshing asset for MercoPress debate culture
Your family choose Argentina more than 160 years ago but you are as British as Tikka Masala and still live here
Speaks volumes about Argentina’s peculiar allure and idiosyncrasy
I luuuved your post No (56) at http://en.mercopress.com/2011/03/07/falkland-islands-other-points-of-view … I quote:
”Redhoyt; I am sorry to be the carrier of bad tidings. I checked on Bingham with my cousin's husband who is a top ornithologist in Argentina (and S.America) and who knows the islands well and here is his reply:
On Bleaker Island in 2006 we landed to see penguins in a fair colony. What was my alarm when I detected that the colony that year occupied less than 10% of its former size and in the distance I could see the fishing fleet spread over the ocean. I believe that the fishing has done unmeasurable damage to the penguins, dolphins and sea-lions as well as “fur-seals”, but who is to raise the alarm - poor Bingham tried and got wallopped”
No Brit dared to call the Vice Chairman of the Buenos Aires Branch of the RBL a brainwashed idiot and liar :-)
I’m especially fond of your accurate description on post No. 56 about the Argentine military system and their more than worthless officers
However…….. In a previous post, you wish our ex defense minister Nilda Garré shot dead for dismantling that very same putrid system
Some consistency please!
Patagonia
Tierra del Fuego history seems to interest you
Just to reaffirm that Evil has no nationality; Google “El Chancho Colorado”
War and Peace
It’s no secret for the old posters in here, that I’m an antimilitarist and don’t approve on the misuse of dead human beings in uniform as tools to perpetuate a sick war culture
Scott Hardy should be alive, laying bricks on somebody’s home and visiting his dad in Rosario
Hands up those Brits who have been to Turkey and visited Gallipoli’s war cemeteries
I was there once, utterly alone for most of the day
Forgotten heroes; indeed
Tim 56, “I have now held two ceremonies at the Cenotaph to the Argentine fallen in Plaza San Martin, with piper and poppies. Sadly there was no honour guard on the two occasions I went”
Mar 17th, 2011 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course! after seeing those “three” british clowns playing La Marcha de San Lorenzo so bad not even the pidgeons stay!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9WUi5aWswA
TWIMC
Mar 17th, 2011 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where have all the young men gone?
Gone for soldiers every one
When will they ever learn?
Where have all the soldiers gone?
Gone to graveyards every one
When will they ever learn?
When will we ever learn?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKvdPsnkPC0&feature=related
Showing your age there, Think.
Mar 17th, 2011 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think I ever called you a 'brainwashed idiot and liar'. I might well have called Bingham one, because I think he is.
Tim, your post about the penguins passed me by, but in the interests of consistency, I'd like to point out that although your friend might be a 'top ornithologist' he might not have known what he was looking at.
We have an empty rookery too. I saw the penguins die, and it wasn't over fishing that killed them. It was a toxic algal bloom.
Falklands Conservation do surveys of all the birds and mammals every few years and the results are mixed; mammals and gentoos up, magellanics probably up, rockhoppers massively down.
63 Monty69 “ I saw the penguins die, and it wasn't over fishing that killed them. It was a toxic algal bloom”
Mar 17th, 2011 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you related to Mr Lewis Clifton by any chance?
“By October 1996 plans for oil exploration around the Falklands were proceeding at a pace. Concerned that Falklands Conservation would demand protection for wildlife, the director of Desire Petroleum, Lewis Clifton, was proposed as chairman of the organisation. By law such an appointment had to be put to a vote at the Annual General Meeting, and it was clear that the director of an oil company drilling for oil would never be voted in charge of the Falklands’ only wildlife conservation organisation. With no chance of election, trustees ignored the law, and elected themselves and Clifton prior to the Annual General Meeting. This was totally illegal, and the UK Charity Commission wrote to Falklands Conservation stating that they had breached the constitution, and that the appointments were illegal, but Falklands Conservation did not reverse the appointments. The Falkland Islands' only wildlife conservation organisation was now in the hands of an oil company director, with disastrous consequences for Falklands wildlife.”
Oh don't start all that again. Is Lewis Clifton anything to do with FC now? No. Was there a red tide? Yes. Did it kill penguins ? Yes.
Mar 17th, 2011 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You seem to be quoting something there. What?
TWIMC
Mar 17th, 2011 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Another classy lady.................
Sag mir, wo die Männer sind.
Zogen fort, der Krieg beginnt.
Wann wird man je verstehn?
Sag, wo die Soldaten sind.
Über Gräber weht der Wind.
Wann wird man je verstehn?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TYJUsHVyjc&feature=related
Background……
”On July 26, 1956, the House of Representatives voted 373 to 9 to cite Pete Seeger and seven others (including playwright Arthur Miller) for contempt, as they failed to cooperate with House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC) in their attempts to investigate alleged subversives and communists. Pete Seeger testified before the HUAC in 1955.
In one of Pete Seger’s darkest moments, when his personal freedom, his career, and his safety were in jeopardy, a flash of inspiration ignited this song. The song was stirred by a passage from Mikhail Sholokhov's novel “And Quie Flows the Don”.
Around the world the song traveled and in 1962 at a UNICEF concert in Germany, Marlene Dietrich, Academy Award-nominated German-born American actress, first performed the song in French, as “Qui peut dire ou vont les fleurs?” Shortly after she sang it in German.
The song's impact in Germany just after WWII was shattering. It's universal message, “let there be peace in the world” did not get lost in its translation. To the contrary, the combination of the language, the setting, and the great lyrics has had a profound effect on people all around the world. May it have the same effect today and bring renewed awareness to all that hear it.”
Marcos Alejandro, in case you didn't know pipes only have eight notes, and puerile slandering from you and Think gets you nowhere; just shows how ridiculous you are.
Mar 17th, 2011 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Monty69, thanks for your input.
Tim, I actually love the sound of bag pipe, gaita and zampogna, however your friend playing la Marcha de San Lorenzo is a disgrace to music.
Mar 18th, 2011 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Relax Señor Tim and enjoy a good glass of vino.... may I suggest “El Justicialista”
Thank God Juan Domingo is not resting in la Chacarita anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjrn6Y0LQJw
Marcos. forgot some things at home and just dropped by to pick them up. Heading north to Corrientes and Paraguay and have to hit Libres before the sun comes up and blinds me, so I won't be around to bug you for a while. 00:52 am
Mar 18th, 2011 - 03:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
Mar 18th, 2011 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.clarin.com/deportes/rugby/mensaje-union-amistad_0_446355608.html
#70
Mar 18th, 2011 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/03/17/argentina-further-tightens-the-noose-on-the-falkland-islands
Note the absurd masturbatory glee in the 2nd poster, which shared by many of the Argentine posters here explains why they weren't as welcome as they might have been.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...sorry did someone in Scotland make a fuss?
Mar 18th, 2011 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
The lack of originality, its just so lame.
Mar 19th, 2011 - 12:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0I believe that has already been done.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...sorry did someone in Scotland make a fuss?
Mar 19th, 2011 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
:-))))) Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Mar 19th, 2011 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dream on senors, you are rapidly losing it.
Mar 19th, 2011 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Mar 20th, 2011 - 07:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawakeagain!
Mar 20th, 2011 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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