MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Face bombast with reason British official tells Falklands
“IN the face of bombast you can show reason and humanity” was the message a Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) official carried to the Falklands this week. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesSadly, Argentina doesn't cope well with 'reason' !
Apr 29th, 2011 - 06:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0nice plane... :D
Apr 29th, 2011 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0More propaganda from the “South Atlantic News Agency”...
Apr 29th, 2011 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And what communication's link is he referring to? I thought Argentina couldn't possibly affect the life of the Malvinenses... ;-)
“said he had not been surprised by the concerns that had been expressed to him, most of which related to communications links”
: P
@ 3 what a nasty spiteful little argie you are, still on track for getting the Falklands? :-)))))
Apr 29th, 2011 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wouldn't be the least bit surprised either... by the concerns that had been expressed to him.
Apr 29th, 2011 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Come on sticky... tell me you're not concerned, I like to start my day with a laugh.
: P
Come on sticky... tell me you're not concerned, I like to start my day with a laugh.
Apr 29th, 2011 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am not concerned, why should I be?
He noted: “…diplomacy is not always visible, some is below the waterline
bit like Conqueror (S48)
...bit like what??
Apr 29th, 2011 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“said he had not been surprised by the concerns that had been expressed to him, most of which related to communications links”
What is that mean?
I'm glad I read the headline correctly - I would hate to think the 'new man' was advocating facing bombblast with reason.
Apr 29th, 2011 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is that mean?
Apr 29th, 2011 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am smarter than you :-))))
Uh, no... you're just in denial.
Apr 29th, 2011 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0See the photo of the LAN jet above?
“The only link with the South American continent is a LAN weekly flight”
That can't be good now... can it?
he is saying that you are safe in our hands, and argentina can do nothing-
Apr 29th, 2011 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0as long as you have the british goverment, then you have the british military, and argentina has lots and lots of words ??
The only link with the South American continent is a LAN weekly flight”
Apr 29th, 2011 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That can't be good now... can it?
For a population of 3,000 I would of thought it was, what about you Einstein
he is saying that you are safe in our hands, and argentina can do nothing-
Apr 29th, 2011 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0as long as you have the british goverment, then you have the british military, and argentina has lots and lots of words ??
Do you think I care about uk britton???
We will concentrate in the South Atlantic sea not the island......
It was and it is a brit military base.. is not true that?
Concerned about the inconvenience Martin, the inconvenience.
Apr 29th, 2011 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A huge nation of fifty million people has with their utmost efforts succeeded in inconveniencing a nearby tiny one of three thousand.
Wow...You Argies are really impressive.....
Not bad,westbest....
Apr 30th, 2011 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Which nation has 50 million? Because Argentina has 39 millions.We inconvinience? I think we Argentines were there,before you....
Not only uk had in tha last century strong economic,political and cultural ties,Argentina has never considered the brits an enemy...why you people atacked Argentina soo many times.....
the brits screwed it,not Argentina,we never bothered uk.......
Too bad that major nations like Brasil,Chile etc.. recognizes Argentine sovereignity over those desolate island.....
shame on the brits.....really pathetic nation....They bothered Ireland,India......still no shame or repentance...really pathetic...
uk is really pathetic.....
“ ... Argentina has never considered the brits an enemy ...”
Apr 30th, 2011 - 02:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0So why did you attempt to steal what was not yours - twice !
“ ... Too bad that major nations like Brasil,Chile ...”
Now Brazil is doing well financially, but as for being a 'major nation' she has a way to go yet. But even then , the weasel words of support that you get from your neighbours haven't helped you in your quest one jot.
And of course, those words of support call for negotiation, not handover!
Not sure I know of much to repent about. Try reading 'Empire - How Britain Made the Modern World' by Niall Ferguson. You may learn something.
Ugly Redmonkey with bad teeth, 'Empire - How Britain Made the Modern World' by Niall Ferguson..is an OLD book. Update and educate yourself with today's issues. (And it's actually the UK and the US in decline, not the other western nations include in South America)
Apr 30th, 2011 - 03:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/8362325/Niall-Ferguson-why-the-West-is-now-in-decline.html
First published 2003 - and as it deals primarily with events up until 1950 its age appears irrelevant.
Apr 30th, 2011 - 05:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UK and the US may, or indeed may not be, in decline, but the flawed democracies, tin-pot dicatorships and the banana Republics of South America hardly seem to have climbed out of the pit yet !
A Fido why so grumpy, did you step in dog shit?
Apr 30th, 2011 - 07:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Amsterdam dog shit blues
Say man, what is that funlky smell,
and that brown thing coming out of that dog's tail?
Smells worse than the US senate
The guy in front of me, he just stepped in it
Well it's dog shit here, dog shit there
God dang dog shit everywhere
Got the Amsterdam dog shit blues
Man oh man I say PPPPPeeeee UUUUUUuuuu
Little bitty dogs, great big dogs
Fill up the streets with their do-do logs
Got the Amsterdam dog shit blues
Man oh man you better check your shoes
Don't wanna smoke it, don't wanna roll it
Why don't you get them doggies some little doggy toilets?
Got the Amsterdam dog shit blues
Man oh man, say PPPPeeeee UUUUUUUuuu!!
All this funk's got my head in quite a swirl
Amsterdam is the dog shit capital of the world
Gonna grab them mutts and throw them in the canal
So I won't have to smell their stinky bowel...
movements, that is
What am I gonna do?
I got the low down dirty
stinky rotten poo-poo ca-ca
Big giant terdola
This St. Bernard about the size of a pony man let this giant terd on the street
It was so biiiiiiiiiigggg, you know how big it was?
It had little terds orbiting around it
Well, I got the Amsterdam dog shit blues
@15
Apr 30th, 2011 - 08:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0If the UK is so pathetic then why haven't you managed to steal the Falklands then?
If you cannot enforce what you purport to be your legal right to a territory on your doorstep against the will of such a 'pathetic' nation then what does that make you eh?
If the UK is so pathetic then why haven't you managed to steal the Falklands then?
Apr 30th, 2011 - 09:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Stealth? Stealth what is ours?
Like I have said: With a country against Argentina,that has never considered an enemy the uk,and wich uk had and has strong economic,political and cultural ties,you do not think is bad to act against a friend?
For the lady bug red,it is true,that uk has had a majot impact on the world,bringing some positives outcomes in the empire,but after the transfer had been done,they should have pull out.The unnecesary permanence had brougth the problem.
Why you guys do not educate yourself about the issues...
I think that lost something in translation Tte....
Apr 30th, 2011 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0...unless you meant to post bollocks of course.
Theft = the dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another ...
Apr 30th, 2011 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Theft = steal
Argentina attempted on two occassions (1832 & 1982) to 'steal' the Falkland islands. On both occassions an effective 'police' action prevented the 'theft'.
We are more educated than you could hope to be ... !
@21:
Apr 30th, 2011 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0The original historical argument is one between two colonial powers (The Spanish Empire & the British Empire), then it moves to an argument between a new colonial power (The Argentine Republic) & an old colonial power (The British Empire)
Control of the continental Viceroyalty of the River of the Plate was taken from the Spanish Crown in Spain by the Spanish Colonists in the Viceroyalty, dominated by ethinically European Peninsulares and the Criollos between 1810-1818
The Spanish population on the Malvinas did not join the May Revolution in the Viceroyalty. When they left in 1811 they actually left a plaque declaring Spanish sovereignty (like the British plaque declared British sovereignty in 1776)
Thus the transfer of power was between the Spanish born in Spain & the colonial Spanish born in the colony of the Viceroyalty of the Rio de la Plata. This was achieved by revolution of the Spanish colonial patriots against their Spanish royalist government
However, the Spanish colonists did not decolonise Argentina, rather they expanded their colonial territories, principally by expanding the modern day province of Buenos Aires to annex the ancestoral territories of the indigenous Amerindians
The history of Vernet's Estancia in the the Malvinas is well known. Vernet was a German immigrant to South America who asked permission to found an Estancia from both Buenos Aires & British authorities
The original Argentine claim is based on the Spanish settlement & plaque declaring Spanish sovereignty in 1811 & the original British claim is based on the British settlement & plaque declaring British sovereignty
It therefore seems the origins of the dispute of the Malvinas is between two sets of European colonialists, culturally divided by speaking Spanish & English but sharing a common European imperial & colonialist past.
Neither side has a morally superior title
Today it is a matter of decolonisation under United Nations Charter 73, 1514, 1541, 2065 & 2625
Wrong Domingo - no transfer, no inheritance .... nothing.
Apr 30th, 2011 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has never been a party to the dispute ..... really !
When you get passed that myth, you find that you have no claim at all.
Uti Posseditis Juris does not apply to you ... it was not proclaimed for South America until 1848 ... too late for you !!
@14
Apr 30th, 2011 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0“It therefore seems the origins of the dispute of the Malvinas is between two sets of European colonialists, culturally divided by speaking Spanish & English but sharing a common European imperial & colonialist past.
Neither side has a morally superior title
Today it is a matter of decolonisation under United Nations Charter 73, 1514, 1541, 2065 & 2625”
That's all very well if that was all there was to it Domingo but it isn't. There's also us, the Falkland Islanders. We have rights in the issue too and I reckon we hold the trumps as far as decolonisation goes.
@25: Agreed.
Apr 30th, 2011 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The point I was making is that the principle of 'Uti Posseditis Juris' does not necessarily provide moral superiority of sovereignty claim to those claiming it under Uti possidetis and de facto and notorious occupation
Clearly treaty agreements between states are also important and the 1850 Convention of Settlement of Existing Differences and Restoration of Perfect Friendship between the AR and the UK , ratified by Argentine Congress and the UK Parliament deserves proper consideration as to its implications under international law
If the dispute was between indigenous Amerindian population displaced from the Islands to the mainland and the UK/Falklanders I would disagree on moral superiority in favour of the indigenous Amerindians. However, there were no indigenous Amerindians in the Malvinas that history records
The origin of the dispute is between two colonial powers, with one colonial
power displaced to its original territory from another colonial power who successfully enforced its anterior sovereignty claim with actual sovereignty
@26:Agreed.
The UN Charter does not recognise rights of sovereignty, beyond those of the undisputed territories of the member states, where it applies the Charter principle of territorial integrity
For colonial territories, the UN requires its policy of decolonisation to be implemented, primarily based on the decision of the peoples living in the colony provided the Administering Country they are seceding from does not suffer loss of national unity nor significant territorial integrity (e.g. access to the sea)
Love all the fantasy about the “support” from Brazil and Chilke etc! When can any of you ever demonstrate TANGABLE-REAL- CONCRETE-PRACTICAL Evidence?
Apr 30th, 2011 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have a fair amount of verbal and notional support from other S American countries in OAS/UNASUR/Un groups etc - this is perfectly normal and to be expected - they need to live alongside you without a continual whine in their ears from you.
But its verbal and paper - and not much more is it? After all even the signed declarations tend to be fringe documents of no real international value - not main agenda signed of any international legal significance.
Before you start- yes Brazil refused diplomatic entry to little HMS Clyde - actually a damn silly UK Foreign Office cockup to even ask for it just then. After all there was a brand new President just about to make her first overseas trip to her main neighbour-Argentina - I would not have expected Dilma to have done anything other than say no!
Uruguay - yes they gave formal entry permission to HMS Gloucester- then 3hrs away from enterning harbour Pres Mujica under an earbashing and economic threats from Kirschener sneaked out in an unmarked car Sunday afternoon unanounced to the Br Ambassadors home to ask him to please signal the ship not to come in!! You dont get much wetter and pathetic than that! To save his political skin and not embarassa long time friendly nation the ship did turn away - no sweat as she arrived here 4 days later anyway to resupply.
Falklands flagged and registered vessels visit Uruguay,Chile and probably Brazil as well if they need to.
Commerial business operates between all those and the Islands.
So where is the practical and concrete support for Argentina,s rantings?
Yes Argentina is an inconvenience to us and yes certain things cost us a bit more as a result. But all that does is just harden our dislike of you.
@25:
Apr 30th, 2011 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Red, if it helps, I was commentating on the morality and ethics of how competing European colonists obtained sovereignty of the Islands in response to Tte comments on stealing in post #21
I was deliberately avoiding the legal issues you referred to but concede I generally agree with you on these as I have not heard the counter-arguments which logically sets them aside
I suppose these are exactly the sort of matter which the ICJ could address, turning a legal opinion into a legal fact backed by evidence to produce a legal judgement
Love all the fantasy about the “support” from Brazil and Chilke etc! When can any of you ever demonstrate TANGABLE-REAL- CONCRETE-PRACTICAL Evidence?
Apr 30th, 2011 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have a fair amount of verbal and notional support from other S American countries in OAS/UNASUR/Un groups etc - this is perfectly normal and to be expected - they need to live alongside you without a continual ”
it is not enough the No docking of brit warships in Brazil,uruguay,and the fligth restriction?You want some more? No problem,we can put a lot of pressure on them,if you are not happy...
Really Domingo? You have been reading too much of Salt& pepper lies.....
Lol. ;-D
Apr 30th, 2011 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do Salt and Pepper lie? I don't think so. I agree they have a different point of view and they use sources of historical evidence where their interpretation is contentious to some and disputed by others with a different point of view
Political and economic persecution of the people is morally wrong because repressive measures against the people living on the Islands are not permitted under resolutions 1514 and 2065
I think it is fair comment that the Wars of Independence for South American states who seceded from the Spanish Empire was primarily about the emancipation of the European colonists in the Spanish colonies from Spanish colonial rule
Given the majority of the land area of modern day Chile and Argentina was under Amerindian control throughout the period of Britain contested and won sovereignty of the Malvinas, I think it is fair to comment the dispute appears to have been conducted principally between European colonists of Spanish and British descent
If the history is different I am happy to listen and learn
30-Esyevez- I expect over the next year or so the usual number of UK naval vessels will be in Brazillian ports - the 2 nations have a defence treaty recently agreed and Brazil is looking at UK vessel types for its expanding Navy. I clearly gave the reasons why a little patrol ship was recently declined!
Apr 30th, 2011 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Flight Restrictions? No new ones that I am aware of since 2003.
Dont worry, one day your persecution of a tiny population will come back and bite you in the rear.
Domingo - the one problem with the ICJ is that the question that is to be answered must be clearly set out, agreed by the two parties and the UN. There's is little point in concentrating that question on the history, rather the question would be more likely to consist of something along the lines on - ” Do the people of the Falkland islands have a right to self determination under the Charter of the UN?'
Apr 30th, 2011 - 11:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do Salt and Pepper lie? I don't think so. I agree they have a different point of view and they use sources of historical evidence where their interpretation is contentious to some and disputed by others with a different point of view
May 01st, 2011 - 02:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Read from the begining is a lie after lie after lie....
Why salt & pepper did not face any university in Argentina?Why they did not show at the meetng in london?
Dont worry, one day your persecution of a tiny population will come back and bite you in the rear
Very soon they are going to bite big time to the enormous amount of brit killing.They are going to give them back with fliying colors...
Really,defense agrrement? not the one going to malvinas...
Given the majority of the land area of modern day Chile and Argentina was under Amerindian control throughout the period of Britain contested and won sovereignty of the Malvinas, I think it is fair to comment the dispute appears to have been conducted principally between European colonists of Spanish and British descent
There have been a big debate about uti posidetis,de jure or facto,stablished in Sa in 1810,not 1845, another big lie of those two guys...
If you think your case are Sooooo strong,take the two clown salt & pepper with you to the UN,go head,brush Argentina all over...
Really pathetic sunday and lady bug....
The un is given way to the Argentines every year...
I think it isn't a problem in translation, it's just his limited English is infused with too much anger, and too much seems to affect the meaning of several points made and make these virtually unintelligible to a person whose native and only language is English.
May 01st, 2011 - 04:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0The 'lady bug' reference obviously has some significance in his native Spanish, since it is a term he's used before in other posts, I'm only guessing at this point that it is meant to be either derogatory or sarcastic, but it could as easily be an 'in' joke and harmless fun, who knows? It is absolutely meaningless in English, in terms of language and cultural reference, and just further confuses matters is all.
There's also a lack of references that we can check, since he assumes that there is no such Defence Agreement between Brazil and the UK, someone please provide him with a link to the document. Also he fails to provide a reference for the debate he claims took place in 1810, maybe he can provide this (won't be holding my breath).
Do we know whether the authors visited or indeed contacted the Argentine University during the research phase following the London 'Conference', or indeed whether they were even aware that the 'Conference' was taking place, might have been invited, and / or were prevented by prior commitments in attending it. From my own interpretation of events the document they wrote was in response to the document distributed by the Argentines in London, perhaps this is an incorrect interpretation of events? (again I will continue to breath normally)
British Empire
May 01st, 2011 - 06:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Three years later, the British did formally leave the islands and they passed into the Spanish Empire for the next forty years. This arrangement was formally recognised by the British in the 1790 Nootka Sound Convention by which Britain formally rejected any colonial ambitions in 'South America and the islands adjacent'. It also reflected a weakening of British power in the Western Hemisphere coming shortly after the embarrassing loss of the 13 colonies partly thanks to French and Spanish intervention.
The Spanish claim on the islands would falter with the South American Wars for Independence at the start of the nineteenth century. The Spanish removed their formal representative and settlers from the island from 1810 and completed it by 1811. The islands were left to their own fate for the next decade as sealing and whaling ships might call in from time to time to take advantage of the harbour and fresh water. It was not to be until 1820 that the United Provinces of Rio de la Plata would send a frigate to the islands in order to assert their control as part of the legacy of post-colonial Spanish claims to authority there. Buenos Aires would appoint their first governor in 1823”
http://www.britishempire.co.uk/maproom/falkland.htm
Siester - nothing was established in 1810, not even Argentina! Uti Posseditis Juris was not declared in South America until 1848, at a conference that Argentina didn't attend! Uti Posseditis Juris was not recognised internationally until after 1945 ... and still remains controversial.
May 01st, 2011 - 06:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0MoreCrap - I see that you are still quoting from the site that carries an apology for its many mistakes. Nobody is impressed.
Suuuure, when you don't like the truth you call it “mistakes”
May 01st, 2011 - 06:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Falkland Islanders have criticised the Government's official history of the 1982 war, claiming that it contains a series of ”serious“ errors which make it too sympathetic to Argentina's claims to the territory”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/7331547/Official-British-history-of-the-Falklands-War-is-considered-too-pro-Argentina.html
@38
May 01st, 2011 - 07:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0straws at barrell clutching scraping bottom
shouldnt take you long :-)
MoreCrap just uses the same old cr*p ... can't find anything new !
May 01st, 2011 - 07:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0”At the same time Mr Longden assured Islanders that the interruption to communications links caused by Argentine shipping decrees, is viewed as “…serious and important,”
May 01st, 2011 - 08:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Like his imperial mustache contest, very reassuring Kelpers.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/05/the-biggest-mo-on-embassy-row/
Oooooh....Marcos found a reference that describes Argentine actions as having 'serious and important' effects, bet he prints it out and sticks it in his scrapbook.
May 01st, 2011 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0man when are the british illegal aliens going to leave the occupyed territory of Islas Malvinas Argentina ??? I was sure they would stop at Malvinas Argentina but now I hear they are killing Muslims in Libya as well.
May 01st, 2011 - 09:42 am - Link - Report abuse 041 Marcos Alejandro
May 01st, 2011 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0I actually looked at your link expecting it to be something controversial and what did I find........some blokes growing moustaches for charity and to raise awareness of mens health issues! Wholly admirable, and amusing at the same time.
There are time when I despair of you. You haven't got a clue about the British, or Falkland Islanders, our culture or sense of humour, and you're determined not to learn.
So what are you doing here?
(44) Monty69
May 01st, 2011 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0There are time when I despair of you. You haven't got a clue about the South-Americans or Argentineans, our culture or sense of humour, and you're determined not to learn.
So what are you doing here?
#43 - I(diot) - there's no such place as Malvinas Argentias. You are confused. Take the tablets!
May 01st, 2011 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0#45 - We own the place ..... and we DO have a sense of humour .... after all we've been winding you up since 1833 but I don't hear much laughter coming from you :-)
#43 - I(diot) - there's no such place as Malvinas Argentias. You are confused. Take the tablets!
May 01st, 2011 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure there is lady idiot bug.
http://www.zonu.com/argentina_maps/Map_Malvinas_Islands_2.htm
http://www.zonu.com/argentina_maps/Map_Malvinas_Islands_2.htm
SiEster - your map refers to some place called the malvinas ... not the Malvinas Argentinas !!
May 01st, 2011 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Idiota
45 Think
May 01st, 2011 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you do have a sense of humour?
There, you see I learnt something already today. I'll just have to work on understanding it now. I think this probably isn't the place to start.
(49) Monty69
May 01st, 2011 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sounds positive……..
If you need any help; just ask……….
I could even give you some good advice on how to catch that elusive 15 pounder…….
44 Monty69, Believe me I am trying to understand the British however the anachronistic absurdities of the monarchy and their ridiculous colonies in the 21st century , like Malvinas, is hard to comprehend.
May 01st, 2011 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 051 Marcos Alejandro
May 01st, 2011 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think you are trying. I think you are ridiculing and mocking what you don't understand, and that isn't very helpful.
I don't care a bit; I don't need your approval to respect our monarchy, and I can see the distinction between a colony and an OT. Which is handy, because I live here and you don't.
Your approach is easy and it's lazy. You can google anything you like and find something to mock. I could do it everytime one of your greasy looking over- coiffed politicians pops up saying something ludicrous. I don't because I'm more interested in thinking about why I find it ludicrous and you don't.
So go back to that picture of our man in the FCO and his crazy moustache and look again. Why do you think we should be shocked by that? And why are we not?
52 Monty69, Fair enough, you like his imperial mustache but what about the ‘super heads’ salaries of your small colony and their early retirement?
May 01st, 2011 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And why do they need to recruit some of this expensive “heads” from far away Britain?
No wonder Mr Roger wants to keep all of you as far as possible and at home to watch their productive Councillors meetings.
Can you please send me that dvd?
Thanks
http://www.sartma.com/art_8638_13_1.html
And why do they need to recruit some of this expensive “heads” from far away Britain?
May 01st, 2011 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you heard of aircraft?
Marcos, Its all about population size- find me a remote 3000 person community in Argentina- do they produce all theor own doctors,surgeons,scientists,teachers etc? Same here - we produce some but not all of them so some of the “superheads”(I also hate the stupid name!) are locals - and some we ahve to find oversease and UK is the natural place because of Language, and living style and similar laws etc.
May 01st, 2011 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They were all approved by our elected Govt-so we are currently stuck with them - yours is not the only Govt that gets it wrong at times! But then I think we can agree that both of us prefer democracy to the alternative?
As for the Monarchy - it actually happens to work in Britain - and several other Independent Commonwealth Nations, its just a different system to what you have!
They do not have legal powers to make Laws - but lookout a politician who has got out of touch with their electorate who totally ignores practical suggestions from a senior “royal” at times - they do have a habit of bringing a few politicians back to earth and reality at times and getting them into contact with the people they represent again!
And Britain makes a good profit out on the Royal family through tourism and the work they do abroad boosting UK exports as well.
-There have been a big debate about uti posidetis,de jure or facto,stablished in Sa in 1810,not 1845, another big lie of those two guys...
May 01st, 2011 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Estevez, the 1810 date does not refer to when it was established, but to the fact that the SA countries decided to use the Spanish colonial administrative borders as they were in 1810 as their international borders. In Central America it is known as uti possidetis juris of 1821.
for the same reason. International law can only be established by sovereign states and there were no sovereign states in SA in 1810. You can read about the evolution of uti possidetis juris here:
http://www.paulhensel.org/Research/iowa06.pdf
from page 8 of the pdf.
What was a well established principle of international law at the time was uti possidetis (not to be confused with uti possidetis juris):
http://www.paulhensel.org/Research/iowa06.pdf
a principle in international law that recognizes a peace treaty between parties as vesting each with the territory and property under its control unless otherwise stipulated.
This practice has its origins in the Treaty of Breda 1667 where the parties agreed to keep the territories they held, no matter how and when they had acquired them.
In 1850 Argentina and the UK ratified a peace treaty, the Arana - Southern treaty and by this treaty Argentina relinquished its claim to the Falklands.
(56) dab14763
May 01st, 2011 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) In 1850 Argentina ratified the Arana - Southern treaty under British coercion after more than 5 years of unprovoked British military aggression and blockade of Buenos Aires.
2) Argentina did not, in any way, relinquish its claim to the Falklands in the Arana – Southern Treaty That is just the wishful British interpretation of it.
3) The Arana - Southern treaty, forced on us in 1850, will surely, in the near future, be repudiated by Argentina as the piece of British extortion it is.
55 Islander1, Interesting to read your point of view about the“superheads”. When I read the first time the article @53, I thought that “superhead” was about the size of the well fed Mr Roger S. cranium :-) (imported by the way).
May 02nd, 2011 - 12:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sounds to me like a small group of elected officials and the famous“super heads” are having all the fun at the expense of the rest.
#57 - How naive of you Think. The vast majority of Peace Treaties ever agreed have been signed at the point of a gun, usually because one side lost. Doesn't make them any the less legal !
May 02nd, 2011 - 02:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Uti Possidetis De Facto :-)
57 & 59 And in this case isn't even true. The Arana - Southern treaty was drafted by Argentina, on Argentinsa's terms, which the UK accepted without modification.
May 02nd, 2011 - 04:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0And the UK intervened in the River Plate because it believed Uruguay's independence was under threat. There was a civil war in Uruguay and Buenos Aires Governor Juan Manuel Rosas had sent troops in support of one of the belligerents.
1) In 1850 Argentina ratified the Arana - Southern treaty under British coercion after more than 5 years of unprovoked British military aggression and blockade of Buenos Aires.
May 02nd, 2011 - 08:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Treaties usually happen after a war, nothing unusual in that.
2) Argentina did not, in any way, relinquish its claim to the Falklands in the Arana – Southern Treaty That is just the wishful British interpretation of it.
Erm, no. Considering Messages to Congress from then on stopped mentioning the Falklands claim, I think this is more than an interpretation, wishful or otherwise. It's a matter of fact.
3) The Arana - Southern treaty, forced on us in 1850, will surely, in the near future, be repudiated by Argentina as the piece of British extortion it is.
Oh, poor little Argentina. You could have fought on to the death. The Boers did. You chose to stop and sign. Your problem! Oh, and I don't see Chile getting all whiney because Patagonia was extorted out of them... you RGs love doing the victim thing when it suits. Man up!
One thing we can count on in this unstable world, the Argentines will never stop playing the victim & never stop whinning.
May 02nd, 2011 - 09:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0@45 Think, l'm sure l pointed out to you before señor Think, copying other people's posts is a form of flattery.Please be more original.
57 - How naive of you Think. The vast majority of Peace Treaties ever agreed have been signed at the point of a gun, usually because one side lost. Doesn't make them any the less legal !
May 02nd, 2011 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So tomorrow we can have the upper hand and the coin is flipped!!
That is exactly what is going to happen,lady bug red
@63
May 02nd, 2011 - 12:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is that a threat of Argentine military action Tte?
(yawn)
SiEster dreams .... in his siesta !
May 02nd, 2011 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is that a threat of Argentine military action Tte?
May 02nd, 2011 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr West and lady bug: Like I said,today you are here and tomorrow you are there.Nothing is ethernal.
For now uk has threatened Argentina (is not that true?),tomorrow we are stronger and what will you do?
Saludos
For now uk has threatened Argentina (is not that true?)
May 02nd, 2011 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, it isn't.
'For now uk has threatened Argentina (is not that true?)'
May 02nd, 2011 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Errr...no, unless I missed something.
14 WestisBest,
May 02nd, 2011 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“A huge nation of fifty million people has with their utmost efforts succeeded in inconveniencing a nearby tiny one of three thousand.”
errr… the population of the UK is approximately 61 million.
How do you fit that many rats into such a tiny country anyway?
I didn't realise there were so many more Britons than Argentinians.
May 02nd, 2011 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And sorry about the rats - they came from Spain and bred like, well, rats!
They are one good reason for all good Argentinians to pay for top-class sewage treatment and to recycle waste rather than land-fill it.
@69
May 03rd, 2011 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0I was talking about Argentina.
...and yes before you jeer I know that that figure was incorrect, I had misremembered it because....well...I just don't really care.
71,
May 03rd, 2011 - 03:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes I know you were talking about Argentina.
It's the UK that claims Malvinas so it's hardly a population of just three thousand, although “tiny” does describe the UK as well.
If you're so worried about convenience and lines of communication... why don't you set up a regular British Airways flight from Chile to Malvinas?
I don't get it...
“It's the UK that claims Malvinas”
May 03rd, 2011 - 06:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0No, actually it's the UK which has the Falklands. Argentina is the one who claims them.
@72 M_F, We OWN the Falklands,you CLAIM them(a ridiculous “claim” l might add).
May 03rd, 2011 - 07:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0I sympathise Martian, I claim good looks, super intelligence and 'second sight', but no-one believes me either :-)
May 03rd, 2011 - 09:17 am - Link - Report abuse 072 Martin_Fierro
May 03rd, 2011 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0''If you're so worried about convenience and lines of communication... why don't you set up a regular British Airways flight from Chile to Malvinas?
I don't get it..''
Are you for real?
Argentina won't let any planes fly over their airspace to the Falkland Islands with out permission, and apart from the one LAN flight, they don't give permission.
That's why there are no charter flights in here, including the charter flights that used to carry Argentine veterans and families. Argentina has banned all charter flights.
The only other thing that gets through is the Lear jet that does medical evacuations. Even you lot would find it hard to justify refusing that.
76,
May 03rd, 2011 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They let the one LAN flight get through, that's why I asked.
Even “our lot”... I wonder what you would do if the situation were reversed.
“Even “our lot”... I wonder what you would do if the situation were reversed.”
May 03rd, 2011 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, some background for you:
The Falklands wanted an open skies policy on charter flights, that is that charter flights from any country in the region including Argentina could fly to and from the Falklands.
Argentina wanted the charter flights to be exclusively Argentine. Since it couldn't get its way, it had a tantrum and banned all charter flights including Argentine ones.
If the situation were reversed, I doubt the Falklands would behave the same way.
78,
May 03rd, 2011 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can say the Brits had a tantrum and wanted something unrealistic under the circumstances. Anything that you say can be reverted and equaled out, it's Argentine perspective as opposed to British perspective.
And if you're as “mighty” as you think you are, set up a cargo flight from the UK to Malvinas and quit bitching about it. You say you're not in South America anyway, nothing to do with us, well... there you go.
Be careful what you wish for, Brits.
“You say you're not in South America anyway, nothing to do with us, well... there you go”
May 03rd, 2011 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not us Martin, we would like very much to continue to have a mutually beneficial relationship with South America. You (the Argentinians) are the ones who want to exclude us, do you deny this?
79 Martin_Fierro
May 03rd, 2011 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've never said anything remotely like that. We are part of South America, and I for one would like all sorts of mutually beneficial ties- cultural, sporting, economic, co-operation over fisheries management.
You are the ones stopping it. I imagine you are familiar with the expression 'cutting off your nose to spite your face'.
We would never interfere with any kind of humanitarian flight; in fact we would welcome charter flights of all kinds. As you well know.
IWhen the Argentines wanted to bring in charter flights for the inauguration of their memorial, we allowed it as a humanitarian gesture, despite having no prospect of getting anything but further kicks in the teeth in return.
If I had a dollar for every time I read “we're not in South America”.
May 03rd, 2011 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You all know damn well what the situation is, ignoring it will not make it go away. Choosing not to take it into account is your prerogative, but don't act surprised when things don't go your way.
Martin, now I know you're pulling my leg!
May 04th, 2011 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Of course we know what the situation is.We are not ignoring it and we take it into account every day as we live with it.
Above all we are not surprised when things don't go our way. On the contrary, there is very little you lot could do to us that would surprise me.
Except perhaps behaving like decent sensible human beings.
And I think if you had ''a dollar for every time I read “we're not in South America”.'' you wouldn't be much richer than you are now.
81 Monty69 “When the Argentines wanted to bring in charter flights for the inauguration of their memorial, we allowed it as a humanitarian gesture, despite having no prospect of getting anything but further kicks in the teeth in return”
May 04th, 2011 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0“We are very grateful to both the Argentine Authorities and the Chilean Authorities for their cooperation and rapid response which ensured that this emergency was resolved swiftly and with no loss of life.”
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/06/04/falklands-thick-fog-forces-two-raf-typhoons-and-tanker-to-land-in-punta-arenas
---And I think if you had ''a dollar for every time I read “we're not in South America”.'' you wouldn't be much richer than you are now.---
May 04th, 2011 - 01:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Remember you said that, all of you.
84 Marcos Alejandro
May 04th, 2011 - 01:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes; there is another version of this story, but the official one is much more edifying on all sides so we'll stick with that one. Well done you. Your co-operation was much appreciated. Out of tiny acorns.....
(86) Monty69
May 04th, 2011 - 03:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0You mean the story about the ”fake” fog so the pilots could visit their local ”Pololas” in Punta and degustate La Marmita’s superb Pulmai…..?
The fog in real life. The RAF doesn't visit you in Narnia.
May 04th, 2011 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The fog in real life... hm, I wonder what these bravehearts would do in an armed conflict. The ultra sophisticated super fighter Typhoon can't find its way to a runway because of the fog... good to know, all we have to do then is set a bunch of leafs on fire and fill the whole damn place with smoke, they'll run away to Chile to hang out at the local gay bar till the smoke clears.
May 04th, 2011 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Martin Fierro: I see chilean people.
May 04th, 2011 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Answer: In your dreams?
[Martin shakes his head no]
Answer: While you're awake?
[Martin nods]
Answer: Chilean people like, in Punta Arenas?
Martin: Walking around in Argentina like regular people. They don't see each other. They don't know they're Chilean, like Xbarilox.
Answer: How often do you see them?
Martin: All the time. They're everywhere in Mercopress.
;D
Walt Disney presents
May 04th, 2011 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Chronicles of the “Falklands”
The penguin, the Kelper and the wardrobe
An epic fantasy in which a bunch of Kelpers find a wardrobe that leads to the fantasy world of the “Falklands”.
“Absolutely entertaining...”
- Clay Smith, Access Hollywood
“Mesmerizing...”
- Peter Travers, Rolling Stones
;-)
?????
May 04th, 2011 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're not all there, are you?
Monty hasn't seen The Sixth Sense, or Narnia...
May 05th, 2011 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have seen The Sixth Sense, and I read the entire chronicles of Narnia when I was eight. I must just be having a sense of humour failure.
May 05th, 2011 - 12:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0I seem to remember that the children who went through the wardrobe became kings and queens in their new country. And defeated evil. Sounds good to me.
Sounds like fantasy to me. : P
May 05th, 2011 - 12:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sounds like fantasy to me. : P
May 05th, 2011 - 06:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Must of been a nightmare, when you realised the task force was coming to get you
Only a nightmare for the generals, the conscripts etc didn't know what was a bout to hit them.
May 05th, 2011 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0@91
May 05th, 2011 - 09:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0The trouble with that is it's 100% incorrect, in case you hadn't noticed we are already living in the Falklands. This is more likely:
Walt Disney presents
The Chronicles of the “Malvinas”
The penguin, the Argie and the wardrobe
An epic fantasy in which a bunch of Argies find a wardrobe that leads to the fantasy world of the “Malvinas”.
“A crock of shit...”
- Clay Smith, Access Hollywood
“I'd rather watch paint dry...”
- Peter Travers, Rolling Stones
;o)
@98 Westy, l like your version better!
May 05th, 2011 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0-or maybe the Argies have been eating the magic mushroom & fell through the spyglass into a make-believe world of the malvinas.
Bullshit pictures presents:
May 05th, 2011 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argies in Wonderland.
Follow the white rabbit to the Malvinas, the Argie wonderland, a fantasy world full of talking penguins, friendly sheep, money trees and using nasty words like inflation, human rights, corruption and debt are punishable by taking a one way flight in a helcopter.
“This makes the teletubbies look like Gone with the Wind, just crap...”
- Clay Smith, Access Hollywood
“Pass the slop bucket, I'm gonna hurl.....”
- Peter Travers, Rolling Stones
WELL ARD
May 05th, 2011 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Martin_Fierro's Best selling novel on recapturing the Malvinas
I couldnt put it down
ANDY MCNAB
Makes a great door stop
STEVIE WONDER
Its the dogs bollox
JUDITH CHALMERS
91 Martin, ”The Chronicles of the “Falklands”
May 05th, 2011 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The penguin, the Kelper and the wardrobe
An epic fantasy in which a bunch of Kelpers find a wardrobe that leads to the fantasy world of the “Falklands”.
:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))
“The White Witch Isolde, as she is referred to by her Narnian subjects, is the land's self-proclaimed queen, tyrannizing all through her magic-imposed rule. Her spell on Narnia has made it ”always winter but never Christmas“ for a hundred years. When provoked, she turns opponents to stone by waving her wand”
102,
May 05th, 2011 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Isolde is a chick? Like that bitch Rhaurie-whatever... she's one nasty old hack. Can't imagine what these 'ladies' look like, don't much want to either.. haha
old hack
May 05th, 2011 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL what a nob :-)))))
Martin 109
May 05th, 2011 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for the lol - so much fun in so few words! (with apols. to Is.& Rha-)
Looks like Martian is a misogynist .... well that explains a lot!
May 06th, 2011 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Although it does mean that he's unlikely to breed :-)
I'm a what???
May 06th, 2011 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0lol
Come on...
103 Martin_Fierro
May 06th, 2011 - 02:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0''Can't imagine what these 'ladies' look like, don't much want to either.. haha''
Quite right too.We're a pretty scary bunch I can tell you. We can all cut 25 yards of peat before breakfast, kill and butcher a sheep with our bare hands, castrate lambs with our teeth (those of us that still have teeth) and de-bog a landrover with nothing but the bumper jack we keep in our handbags. We also drink rum from the skulls of our enemies.
Just as well you don't plan ever to visit here.
I think Martin @103 upset Malvinas ladies :-)
May 06th, 2011 - 05:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0”castrate lambs with our teeth (those of us that still have teeth)”
No doubts! Monty69 is from England(missing or bad teeth)
I suspect that you are the 'lambs' that she was refering to :-))
May 06th, 2011 - 06:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0@108
May 06th, 2011 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cor, I see Monty69 is one of the more elegant Falkland Ladies, not one of the rough and tough sorts.
;-)
110,Rotted with chics like that now I see why you moved to Thailand :-)
May 06th, 2011 - 11:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The ladies can bite .... everywhere :-)
May 07th, 2011 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0. . . . . she ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti.
May 07th, 2011 - 01:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just don't mess with these girls
@102 Marcos, yes Marcos l am a witch, you got that right.
May 07th, 2011 - 05:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0@114
May 07th, 2011 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0nah.
.....she ate his liver with some tinned spaghetti and a flat Heineken would be closer to the mark.
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!