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Claims of stolen babies: DNA tests for adopted heirs of Argentine media group

Friday, June 3rd 2011 - 23:37 UTC
Full article 49 comments

An Argentine court ruled this week that the adopted children of one of the country’s largest media group must submit to DNA tests to determine if they were stolen as babies during Argentina's military dictatorship. Read full article

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  • briton

    Congratulations mercopress,
    Another chance for the bloggers to get at each other’s throat,
    The conflict is now in the courts. The Kirchner administrations accuse the Clarin group to have played to the tune of the military dictatorship.
    If justice is served, then justice will be done, and time will then move on.

    Jun 03rd, 2011 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • xbarilox

    @ 1 briton, don't get confused, don't think that because I believe that the islands belong to the people living there my comments mean something lol, no, no one is getting at each other's throat, sorry to burst your bubble. I know that to my countrymen my comments mean nothing, so don't feel like you're winning something or that my comments are offensive to them lol, they answer me just because they want to not because my comments are important :) and sadly this is just a website, nothing important will happen in here, in real life, I'm afraid that finally the islands will be back in the hands of Argentina, if you walk away from your xenophobia you'll see that these governments of South America are finally conquering a place which historically only was occupied by countries like the UK and the USA. The fact that I don't like this government means nothing, nobody really cares what we say in these forums :) so shhhh and stop masturbating at the idea that you win something :) you are a loser too :) and if you want to know, my real feeling about the people living on the islands is only one, I hope they all die victims of a Tsunami or an earthquake, which makes me sick is this stupid discussion posting links posting more links and more links, which mean nothing. Do you understand now? If those stupid islands disappear and those people disappear there will be no problem anymore :) Like I told you, if you take a look at what these governments are achieving you'll see that one day those islands will be controlled by the Argentine government, and unfortunately, this will happen soonner than expected. Good luck, because even if I think that's disgusting, I will visit the islands just to poop there on your graves :)

    Jun 04th, 2011 - 01:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    So disappear then ExBrain! I thought Argentina was good at making things disappear - facts, people, honour, etc!

    The islander's will be enjoying their land long after Argentina has imploded :-)

    As for the article, I didn't know that people could be compelled to give DNA samples if they hadn't been convicted of some crime.

    Jun 04th, 2011 - 05:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Redhoyt said:
    “I didn't know that people could be compelled to give DNA samples if they hadn't been convicted of some crime.”

    Think says:
    Well............................ Now you know.

    Jun 04th, 2011 - 06:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    Not a breach of their human rights then ?

    :-)

    Jun 04th, 2011 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    I can see this is a pressure campaign against the owners etc of Clarin media group, to divide it and conquer it, because of criticism in the press of the CFK governance. This much is obvious.
    But I find the *substance* of the campaign very opaque.

    Why should the owners of newspapers adopt babies, stolen or otherwise?
    Are Argentinean media magnates particularly prone to adoption, rather than producing their own babies in the normal way?

    Were there so many stolen that it is statistically probable that some would be adopted by the said owners?

    Is there something ‘special’ about these particular babies that causes people to seek them out in preference to ‘ordinary’ babies put up for adoption?

    Were these media magnates forced by the military dictatorship to adopt these particular babies?
    Or did the media magnates pay the military for the privilege of having children?

    Is there one iota of evidence, or even grounds for supposition, that Clarin Group members adopted illegally from this special group as opposed to the general population of babies put up for adoption at that time?

    Is it not reasonable to assume that a large proportion of adoptions at that time were deficient in paperwork? This is frequently as much at the instigation of the birth-mother as at the request of the adoptee parents.

    There is an obvious human rights issue on both sides of the argument, and I can see that the State could well find itself tried by an international court for human rights harassment and failure to behave impartially in this matter.

    Jun 04th, 2011 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (5) Nope............

    Jun 04th, 2011 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    xbarilox
    No doubt we all agree with you, whatever you were saying?
    But i don’t know what your item [as exhilarating as it was]] has to do with the stolen babies,,,
    And please don’t feel that everyone is offended when you speak,
    As you rightly said, it’s only a blog, it’s only an advert,,
    But please in your wisdom could you DEFINE [xenophobia ]
    Is this not created by those who say it,, ,rather than those who read it, thank mmm

    Jun 04th, 2011 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • jerry

    Since laws are supposed to be equal for everyone, it appears to me that the ruling should be that ALL persons adopted in Argentina during the military regime must give DNA for testing. If this is not done, then discrimination is clearly being done against the media group.

    Jun 04th, 2011 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • xbarilox

    @ 9 The level of faggotry in your posts has exceeded EPA levels of gayness lol Look, I don't know what you say, but don't waste your time, I'm the kind of person who doesn't know anything about respect, actually I don't respect anything, I'm the kind of person who does sh*t today, and tomorrow and the day after tomorrow without remorse, I write because I want and because I can, you write because you dream of being important, you like to think that when people read your comment they will say “hmm who is this person? this person is so intelligent!” haha f*ck that! You are not even a man, and don't try to teach me, I am not your son, if you were my father I would have killed you! This is a virtual reality briton, you know? all of these comments one day will be forgotten. About the islanders, well, I imagine Isolde and her family drowning in the cold waters of the South Atlantic ocean and that thought of her dying is thrilling! About your hatred or my hatred, well that can do NOTHING, it's worthless, as much as I hate Cristina de Kirchner, she's unbeatable, and I'm sure she will make it again in October, and one day, remember this, one day those islands will be under the control of Argentina, you, and the others and I can hate, but that won't change a thing. Your comments are stupid, but the difference is that I don't give myself any importance, you give yourself importance, you take care of the words you use to sound intelligente haha. I don't need promotion, you need it, you live for the opinion of the others haha. Like I told you before, I do what I want because I can, that's what we men do, and I don't give sh*t what people think about me, I can criticize myself, but you can't do that, to do that you must be a man, and you are not. No matter how hard you try, or how hard I try, those islands one day will be in the hands of Argentina, you can bet on it. Now you can go giving yourself the importance people don't give you and suck on that big one you like that much.

    Jun 04th, 2011 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    rahh rahh xbox, and when you die, no one will miss you.
    like all men we all die, but the falklands will one day become part of argentina,, i think one day argentina will become part of the falklands, but like you say, who cares, we dont,,you dont, they dont,
    xbox you are like a page in a book, when i have read your blog i turn the page over,,, next ,

    Jun 04th, 2011 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • jerry

    Sick - Sick - Sick - No wonder why I read that Argentina has more psychiatrists per capita than any country in the world!

    Jun 04th, 2011 - 11:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    OK, let's shorten #6:

    Why should the owners of newspapers adopt babies, stolen or otherwise?
    Are Argentinean media magnates particularly prone to adoption, rather than producing their own babies in the normal way?

    Jun 05th, 2011 - 12:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Ernestina Herrera de Noble
    Born on June 7, 1925
    Widowed on January 12, 1969
    Adopted Felipe and Marcela in 1976

    Math’s and biology………………………… Math’s and biology

    Jun 05th, 2011 - 06:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    14
    posting displays no logic.

    Jun 05th, 2011 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    15
    How else could a 51 years old menopausic widow get hold of a pair of babies in the 70’s if not by adoption?

    Jun 05th, 2011 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    ”Hundreds of these families have some reason to believe a baby could have been taken from a female relative who was taken away by security forces as an enemy of the (1976/1983) dictatorship and never seen again.”

    Think, my point is, why would such an obviously rich woman choose to adopt a child of a woman killed by the regime rather than an ordinarily available child?

    Could it be that such a woman is trying to save a child from the damage inflicted on its family by the killers of its mother?
    *If* this did happen, no other motivation seems likely, as it seems highly unlikely that the regime would force babies onto Ernestina Herrera de Noble
    Were these 500(?) babies produced as a result of mass rape by the captors? Or were the women simply pregnant or with a child at heel when they were taken?
    If the report is correct, 104 adopted babies have 'had their identities recovered' (been DNA-matched?) with a disappeared mother/mother's family; with potentially 400 more having been stolen.

    If just one baby was deprived of its mother in this way it is sad, though in civil conflict and war this is commonplace.
    If a home was found for that baby, I fail to see it as a crime against humanity - more an act of humanity.

    Please, if somebody out there has a more accurate take on this situation, please post it, because I find the whole thing confused and distressing.

    Jun 05th, 2011 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    You find the “whole thing” confusing and distressing?

    You poor little sausage…………

    What about educating yourself before commenting........

    Or better yet, stop commenting about things you don’t know a thing about .......

    Jun 05th, 2011 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    I do not understand it either. It seems to be far more about whipping up hatred against the free press than concern for the children involved.

    Jun 05th, 2011 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (19) ElaineB

    Does it really?

    Why?

    Would like to hear some of the background for your ”perception” about this matter…………..

    Jun 05th, 2011 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    Think,
    have you nothing of value that you could contribute?
    Is this not your country?
    Is it that you are afraid to give honest opinions?

    Be brave, man.

    Jun 05th, 2011 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @20 Your post indicates you are just looking for a fight, not a debate. *sigh*

    Jun 05th, 2011 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    @22 Your post indicates you are just looking for a way out, not a debate. *sigh*

    Jun 05th, 2011 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    Claims of stolen babies
    perhaps this blog has run its course,
    for only the argies it seems have the answers, and we are all just bystanders , just a thought .

    Jun 05th, 2011 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    They may have the answers ,
    but they are too afraid to speak.

    And who can blame them.
    I guess pity is in order.

    Jun 05th, 2011 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    “The DNA Data Bank's 12,000th match was made at the state DNA database facility in Richmond. On average, the DNA Data Bank receives 300 hits per month. In March, the Data Bank had 405 DNA matches, the most ever in a single month.

    DNA Data Bank has now matched 12,000 crime scene DNA samples to violent offenders and other suspects, helping to ”secure thousands of convictions“ of rapists, murderers, and kidnappers.”

    Looks like is working very well for some Americans. The people involved in torture, murder and illegal adoption during the dictatorship thought that they had commited the perfect crime.

    Jun 06th, 2011 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    Marcos, you obviously picked up this quote from somewhere - ref. would be good. Richmond Virginia USA ?

    DNA can be forensically taken from bundles of banknotes, and 'could' be used to provide evidence against corrupt politicians etc.
    But with standard and *video evidence* already publicised nationwide and beyond - with blustering denials, serial appeals, few convictions, even fewer loss of Government jobs - what would be the point of DNA additional evidence?

    For our 'leaders' - 'Impunity Through Immunity'
    (Wry: It has the ring of an alternative Manifesto statement about it : ( don't you think)

    Jun 06th, 2011 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    27,
    http://imperialvalleynews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7012&Itemid=1

    Jun 06th, 2011 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    Thanks, Marcos.
    ...............................

    It would be really easy to determine, for these 104 identified offspring, if the father’s DNA component matched that of the woman’s husband.

    If it does not match, this is grounds for DNA-matching with the captors as rape is against the law.

    There may be human rights issues, though.

    Jun 06th, 2011 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    Aranza !

    you read these news and comments ... don't you !!

    Jun 08th, 2011 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Artillero601

    why would Ernestina Herrera de Noble, a super rich woman, would adopt “babies” from interrogation sites ?

    Marcela and Felipe Noble Herrera adoptee, now in their 30 have fiercely defended their adoptive mother and say they have no desire to know their birth families.... NO SHIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Jun 09th, 2011 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    And still nobody answers my questions ! (#6, 13, 17, 29)

    It is totally unclear to me whether
    (i) you don't know the answers,
    (ii) or you do know but don't want to answer (embarrassing?)

    but it certainly seems important enough to me for Argentineans to give the knowledge, their opinion, their information.

    This is not a nice issue but it is not made better by 'hiding it under the Argentinean carpet'.

    Artill - you seem less afraid than most to face difficult issues head-on, give us a bit of background that people aren't saying, even if it hurts.
    G.

    Jun 09th, 2011 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    [] 32--

    6,13,17,29 are babyish questions !

    Jun 09th, 2011 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    31) Artillero601

    Right….. Nos sh*t.
    Until the DNA tests are done.
    Then; with the truth on hand, things change…..
    It has hapenned 104 times before.
    It wil surely happen again.

    Jun 10th, 2011 - 04:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    So, Think,
    did the tests revel the 104 babies to be fathered by the mother's husbands - or by 'persons unknown'?

    It really is a VERY simple (but crucial) question.

    Jun 10th, 2011 - 09:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Artillero601

    @34 No shit that the Kids HAVE interest in finding out !!! they don't want to be caught up in this Media / Military Regime attack by the government or by the Marxist organization like the Madres of Plaza de Mayo. Is it clear now??

    @35 Sorry, I didn't answer your question ! I was busy working , trying get out of the recession.... lol!!!

    Jun 10th, 2011 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (36) Artillero 601

    No sh*t............
    And when they eventually get their stolen identity back, they will be free to choose and move on ..............

    Jun 10th, 2011 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Artillero601

    @37 Tell Shocklender that !! ;-)

    Jun 10th, 2011 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    Aranza !!

    if you read Mercopress ,i send my greetings to you !!

    Jun 10th, 2011 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (38) Artillero 601

    Tell Schocklender what?

    He is a crook.
    He has been exposed.
    He is being investigated and persecuted.
    He will most probably end in prison after due process.

    The system works....
    What do you want me to tel him?

    Jun 10th, 2011 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Artillero601

    @40 the system works? for you all may be. If Oyarbide is your judge , for sure, nothing is going to happen!!!!!!!!!!

    that Hebe de Bonafini knew about the whole “fiasco”

    Jun 10th, 2011 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    OK, Artill, I think I get the message.
    Stum.

    It would, in any case, need a full DNA database of all military and police in post in 1976-83 to make a comparison worthwhile for the 'other 400'.
    Dads are hard to uniquely identify without a complete DNA DB, and there is so far no call to test all these old guys - or is there?

    Is this a ploy to 'castrate' the old political 'right', or is it just designed to castrate the Media bosses?

    Jun 10th, 2011 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Artillero601

    @42
    Is this a ploy to 'castrate' the old political 'right', or is it just designed to castrate the Media bosses?

    Like my kids say : ” Geoff!! you are a Bad Ass !!!! (slang for Magnificent Human being )

    Jun 10th, 2011 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    Aranza !

    I would implore that don't drink exstra coffee also you have tension !

    thanks.

    Jun 10th, 2011 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Artillero601

    Geo, would you be kind enough to explain to us what the “freak” Aranza is?

    Jun 10th, 2011 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    [] - 45 artio

    she is still belle woman (morena) though once used eyes lens !

    Jun 10th, 2011 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Artillero601

    jajajajaja!!! are you still drinking???

    Jun 10th, 2011 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    [] artio

    you may estimate who she is...

    imagine a woman who is Sarah Palin's Latin version...

    Jun 11th, 2011 - 08:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Artillero601

    My dear and good friend Geo !! I don't like Sarah Palin at all , I think she is moron, she was asked a question last week about Paul Revere and answered incorrectly. She lasted as governor of Alaska only 2 year not completing the 4 year term .... so I'm definitely not impressed with her at all !!!!! but she has the capacity of having a lot of followers ....JMO

    Jun 11th, 2011 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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