MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentine Claims on the South Atlantic Remote Islands
Argentina’s claim to the Falkland Islands is well documented, but lesser known is her continued claim to South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rules” ... 1904 – A Norwegian, Carl Anton Larsen, is the owner of Compañía Argentina de Pesca, registered in Buenos Aires. The company establishes a whaling station on South Georgia and applies for a lease from the British Legation in Buenos Aires. The application is filed on behalf of the company by Captain Guillermo Núñez, a technical advisor and shareholder. Núñez is also Director of Armaments of the Argentine Navy. The lease is signed November 16th by the Governor of the Falkland Islands and Dependencies, and commences January 1st 1906....
Aug 26th, 2011 - 04:53 am - Link - Report abuse 01910 – Carl Anton Larsen becomes a British citizen.
1960 – The Compañía Argentina de Pesca ceases its operations on South Georgia and sells the Grytviken whaling station to Albion Star (South Georgia) Ltd...
1979 - Sr Constantino Davidoff, a Buenos Aires scrap metal merchant signs a contract with Christian Salvesen, the Edinburgh-based firm managing the Crown leases for the disused whaling stations on South Georgia, giving him an option to purchase equipment and dispose of it. The option is to be exercised in 1980 under an agreement that any equipment remaining after March 1983 would revert to Salvesens.
1981 - On December 20th, Constantino Davidoff, arrives in Leith, South Georgia on the Argentine naval icebreaker, Almirante Irizar intending to inspect the scrap there.
December 22nd, General Galtieri succeeds President Viola as President of Argentina. He also retains his position as Commander-in-Chief of the Army, which he is due to hold until the end of 1982.
On December 31st, the unauthorised presence of the Argentine icebreaker is notified to London ...”
And we all know where that led !
http://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/
The sun & the moon also shine over Argentina.
Aug 26th, 2011 - 10:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe they think that they own them too!
Where is El Thicko when you want something explained?? ......... :)
Aug 26th, 2011 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Think has previously described this as - 'difficult' !
Aug 26th, 2011 - 11:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0And didn't he also say that it was simply that they wanted them.....Oh well.... that saves us from having to work our way through 800kg of verbiage....
Aug 26th, 2011 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0The sun and the moon... well the RGs are from another planet.....
“Why then, when the Islands lie some 1000 miles west of Argentina, are they disputed?”
Aug 26th, 2011 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the UK is 14.000 miles from the islands so...
war of the Sandwich perhaps,
Aug 26th, 2011 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0argentina did claim an egg and bacon Sandwich once,
but this claim is a no go area,
its british full stop.
More crap from a bunch of malcontents that no one in the world takes seriously. Anyone with any sense in Argentina would see that they are the laughing stock of the whole world, but as we all have come to see Argentina has no shame and thus is immune to what the world community thinks of her. Pillocks of the lowest order.
Aug 26th, 2011 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps it is time for both countries to request a unbiased decision by the International Court of Justice as was requested by the UK in the 1940s and 1950s. Well we are willing to go to ICJ. Come on malcontents see you at court........................ Yes thought so your not willing to come are you, put up or shut up with your claims, now piss off and stop wasting peoples time.
@6 I don't understand your comment.
Aug 26th, 2011 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK is less than 8,000 miles from the Falkland Islands!
Argentina can claim all it wants. Next these Spanish/African Conquistadors will be claiming the Channel Islands.
Aug 26th, 2011 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway as they say “claiming ain't getting”.
I think it is about time for Uruguay to claim Martin Garcia Island, which is within pistol shot of of the country's coastline (no kidding).
Aug 26th, 2011 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentineans should stay in their own big territory and cease grabbing other people's land. Silly irredentist claims were all right in the 19th Century- not anymore!
#6 - Why are the islands disputed? There does appear to be some dispute about your location. 1000 miles west of Argentina puts them in the PACIFIC OCEAN.
Aug 26th, 2011 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ . . . Papal decrees and the 1494 Treaty of Tordesillas which split the New World along an agreed line of longitude . . . ”
Aug 26th, 2011 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So,
island which might exist to the East of the Continental Line were deemed to belong to Portugal,
and islands to the West of the Line which were yet to be discovered were deemed to belong to Spain.
History is sometimes a bit farcical -
here we have 'East' islands,
discovered by the British,
declared by the Pope that - should they exist and if they were ever found - to be Portuguese,
but being 'claimed' all these centuries later, by the ancestors of the Spanish!
Sometimes we smile,
and sometimes the absurdity is so great that we roll around on the floor laughing uncontrollably;
these 'claims' fall into the latter category.
Argentine rights over the Malvinas, Georgias and South Sandwich recommend reading and researching the following website:
Aug 26th, 2011 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.cuestionmalvinas.com.ar
@13
Aug 26th, 2011 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So Geoff, let me get this straight .... We can't have those Islands either?????? Did you Brits learn to share when you were little??? lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we brits did not have any toys,,
Aug 26th, 2011 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the argies next door, claimed them all .lol
@11 Martin Garcia was NEGOTIATED (key word there) between Argentina and Uruguay. Yes it is in Uruguayan waters but has always been under Argentinean jurisdiction. Besides, Argentina handed over Juncal isle as part of the deal, amongst other concessions.
Aug 26th, 2011 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So exactly what has Argentina got to offer in any negotiations? Lets have a long list shall we?
Aug 26th, 2011 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You've got it all backwards mate. Argentina doesn't have to offer anything to recover land which is in its continental shelf and part of the united provinces at the time of its independence. The reason why Argentina negotiated with Uruguay is because it recognised the geographical location and their status of enclave when the boundaries were set.
Aug 26th, 2011 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hi, Art.
Aug 26th, 2011 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0re: #15
Yes, even before I was young (1933), Great Britain gave most of its territories in Antarctica - indeed, most of Antarctica! - to Australia and New Zealand.
Such altruism!
@19... so please explain how South Georgia and the South Shetlands are on Argentina's continental shelf and how exactly did they come to be part of the United Provinces at the time of the UPs independence?
Aug 26th, 2011 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An answer of under 800 kgs please.......
@21 they aren't. they are claimed for the same reason Argentina claims the Antartic sector from 24 to 74 degrees west meridians. They are considered a continuation of the Andes mountain range which forms this “loop” in the ocean where these “and the Falklands” thus came to be and continues in the Antartic peninsula. You'll see it in any geographical map.
Aug 26th, 2011 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@16 & @20
Aug 26th, 2011 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:-)) !!
@22Troneas,
Aug 26th, 2011 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a load of complete rubbish. Your country has never owned our lslands. You have no legitimate claims at all. lts just you now realise that there are mineral & water resources there and you want them. You also think that the British are weakening & this is your big chance. They're ALL ours. Develope your own country & stop coveting other people's property.
@24 Coveting other people's property? Hell that's what the British are good at. Starting with Scotland, Ireland, and numerous other territories and the South Atlantic isles are just one of those territories. The difference is Argentina has claimed them and denounced the British ever since; so your “mineral and water” rhetoric is not valid. In fact, if anyone is interested in exploiting those islands is the UK, a former colonial power an ocean away that defends its position by claiming they care for what the islanders want. Well how many natives are there in S. Georgia? 5? and South Sandwich? Yet they are still there, fishing and whaling away - far, far away from home. Do you honestly think the UK will let the Malvinas ever slip through their fingers easily? Even if the islanders so wish?
Aug 27th, 2011 - 12:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well it's not much of a reason Trousers! Continental shelves tend to go around whole continents, doesn't mean that you can claim all of it. And as we know, geography is no reason for sovereignty in international law (Islas de Palmas 1928).
Aug 27th, 2011 - 12:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0If that's all you've got, then it's no reason at all.
http://lordton1955.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/historical-facts-or-historical-lies/
:-)
@26 I know Rediot but at least in South America, geography has been the main consideration amongst nations when delimiting their borders to others via treaties. Even external arbitrage from European countries (yes the UK has been one) have considered geography as the main component when asked to mediate disputes in the region. And given that the UK is not in South America (nor anywhere near SA for that matter), they are in no position to decide what belongs to who in this continent - well aside from their position as usurping pirates.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 01:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Falkland Islands are in the south Atlantic. Not South America!
Aug 27th, 2011 - 05:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0And I know of the British arbitration in the Beagle Channel case. Argentina agreed to binding arbitration and then would not accept the 'binding' decision. Not a trustworthy nation.
Uti was mentioned in that arbitration - ” ... On the issue of Uti Possidetis Juris, the panel says, ” the Parties were agreed in principle that their rights in the matter of claims or title to territory were governed prima facie (and if no recognized basis of derogation existed) by the doctrine of the uti possidetis juris of 1810, This doctrine—possibly, at least at first, a political tenet rather than a true rule of law—is peculiar to the field of the Spanish-American States whose territories were formerly under the rule of the Spanish Crown, —and even if both the scope and applicability of the doctrine were somewhat uncertain, particularly in such far-distant regions of the continent as are those in issue in the present case, it undoubtedly constituted an important element in the inter-relationships of the continent. ..“
http://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/1967-1981/
”inter-relationships” ... nothing to do with the UK then :-)
@25 Troneas,
Aug 27th, 2011 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0More drivel. What's Scotland, lreland etc got to do with all this?
Don't try to muddy the waters. The Falkland lslands belong to the Falklanders & South Georgia, SSI belong to Britain. As has been pointed out to you, they are NOT in South America, they are in the South Atlantic & we were there long, long before you lot of Johny-come-latelys decided that you wanted them.
So what if there are only 5 or so people on South Georgia? What's that got to do with you? lt wouldn't matter if there were 5 or 5000.
lts OUR land, not yours.
We don't want to slip through the UK's fingers & we certainly don't want to be squeezed by your thieving fist.
Troneas, for information, we, the Scots, imposed union upon the English.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 09:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Och aye, numbnuts.
the Ireland +Britain islands are in the North Atlantic,not Europe !
Aug 27th, 2011 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Do you honestly think the UK will let the Malvinas ever slip through their fingers easily? Even if the islanders so wish?”
Aug 27th, 2011 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes. It's in UK law that if any overseas territory wishes to gain independance they can hold a referendum on the subject and would have the full support of the government. Check the C24's list of former territorys. Half of them are British territorys that were allowed to gain independance when they asked for it.
Gibraltar has helf three referendums on the subject now i believe.
The Prime Minister has stated constantly that the sovereignty of the islanders is not up for discussion “unless the islanders wish it to be”.
“Argentina doesn't have to offer anything to recover land which is in its continental shelf and part of the united provinces at the time of its independence.”
South georga was not part of the spanish empire when Argentina gained independance. Infact by the time Spain recognised Argentina as a nation...The falklands was not even a part of the Spanish empire.
Well done geo - that is true :-)
Aug 27th, 2011 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is because of proximity that we have sovereignty of las malvinas, Georgias del Sur, Islas sandwich del Sur, Tierra del Fuego, Beagle Channel and wish for sovereignty over Uruguay and Paraguay.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The illegal populations in these regions must be removed! We do not regard illegal populations of our claims to have rights, they are no human beings but illegals in occupation of Argentine sovereign territory. Argentina has a policy of expansion and need for living space and national security, we have long history of fascism and our military will rise once more to take control of our claims over region of South America.
NO ANGLOS from UK, North America or elsewhere will STAND IN OUR WAY. YOU WILL BE CRUSHED UNDER BOOT OF ARGENTINE ARMY!!!!!!!!!
but..Ireland +UK are in the EU !!
Aug 27th, 2011 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When I live in London I associate with 'my type of people'.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I choose to not associate with 'hoodies'.
Ireland and the UK AND TFI are all in the Atlantic.
That is their location.
Who they choose to associate with is simply their concern.
3000 people. 10,000 miles.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0i give it 20 years before Argentinians are living on those islands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J-yh_7NINU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J-yh_7NINU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J-yh_7NINU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J-yh_7NINU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J-yh_7NINU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J-yh_7NINU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J-yh_7NINU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J-yh_7NINU
Why exist in isolation, when co-operation is the better option.
40,000,000 have as much right to the islands as 3000 settlers.
Claim your free Argentinian passport today, and keep your old one too
Be reasonable - its a question of when, not if.
:)
37 You sound a bit sinister.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cant be bothered to open yet more supercilious youtube links.
Do you support self determination or are you just another cut rate facist?
Hitler said something similar but then he had a bit more than amateur dramatics behind him. What have you got?
The WWT stands ready to honour you.
It is believed our little Country has been drifting from South Africa for thousands of years towards the South American Coast. So Argentina you better watch out because as we get even closer we will want to claim your land because just like you it seems that if a continental shelf under the sea is a valid reason to make such claims I say that we have the absolute right to claim the Argentine land as bieng ours.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Given that we are likely to have more oil reserves than you in twenty years means we will have the resources to make our Country a very powerfull one. Still we can always offer to help the ailing Argentine lot providing you give us your country that would be fair would it not
See even I can dream just like the Argentines are doing
YOU WILL BE CRUSHED UNDER BOOT OF ARGENTINE ARMY!!!!!!!!
Aug 27th, 2011 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your kidding right?
The Argentinian “Army” can't afford boots not to mention bullets, fuel or parts. It's pretty hard to bluster when it is well known the Ks have destroyed any fighting capability.
It will take decades and $ Argentina doesn't have to be able to be a capable force again. I doubt it could happen in any of our lifetimes.
“i give it 20 years before Argentinians are living on those islands”
Aug 27th, 2011 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can add those 20 onto the 180 you've already been waiting.
“Why exist in isolation, when co-operation is the better option.”
The islanders have always been up for co-operation and have signed many deals that Argentina backed out of. What the islanders refuse is to be subjugated by Argentina.
“40,000,000 have as much right to the islands as 3000 settlers.”
No.
“3000 people. 10,000 miles”
Aug 27th, 2011 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually 3000 people living in their homes in their own country (and have been for 9 generations), so zero miles.
“Why exist in isolation, when co-operation is the better option.”
They don't live in isolation. They have links with Chile (and even Rio Gallegos), links by sea with Uruguay, links with the UK by air and sea, telephones, television and the internet. Hardly isolation... oh and they did co-operate with Argentina on fisheries and hydrocarbons until ARGENTINA withdrew THEIR COOPERATION!
“40,000,000 have as much right to the islands as 3000 settlers.”
Do your 40,000,000 Argies also have a right to Chile, just because that's next door? So what makes you think you can tell the Falkland Islanders what to do?
“Claim your free Argentinian passport today, and keep your old one too”
Yea right. Once bitten twice shy. You've said in the past that you'd let them keep their “way of life”, yet as soon as you Argies invaded in 1982 everything changed, you even forced them to drive on the WRONG side of the road!
“Be reasonable - its a question of when, not if.”
Well for a country which enshrines the outcome of “negotiations” in its constitution before those “negotiations” have even taken place, you really have no place telling others to be reasonable. Perhaps you don't understand what the word “reasonable” means. You certainly don't know what “negotiation” means...
just a quick reply to many who have tried to find holes in my statements: when i talked about Scotland and Ireland I was referring to the centuries in which these two societies had been forcefully put under English jurisdiction.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And yes, the Malvinas are part of the South American continent.
Frankly I am starting to question my participation on these boards given the level of defensiveness that some posters manifest. I wouldn't mind if this were a British forum but I cannot but remind myself that many here are Argentineans, born and brainwashed in illegally occupied lands. And I do not wish to argue with fellow nationals.
38 - The inevitable may seem sinister, ach dont shoot the messenger by calling Ich hitler.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0''Be Serious' my post was all for self determination.
I believe that people on those islands will, in the decades to come, self determine to make use of all thats available a short hop away and that there will be small compromises made for this.
If that means holding two passports or Argentinian wives/husbands coming to live on the islands, so be it, by then death threats for doing so should be a thing of the past.
Agreements will be made (some out of necessity), a little business agreement here, a little permanent foreign resident status there...and so on.
Bi-lingual teachers for young Pablo Smith, Argentine contractors staying for the 5 year contract, Argentine nurses for Betty and Bill etc.
I think the islands coming generations will drop the tabloid mentality and self determine themselves into Argentina and that its a question of when. 1 generation? 2? 4?
Your lifetime? Who knows, just so long as you know its inevitable :)
Im bored -I wish I was in Buenos Aires now, it looks amazing on youtube, my twitter friend skyped me on her iphone from the university there.
(ps 41- the world has become smaller and richer and more advanced and integrated than 180 years ago. 42- you've confused me with someone else)
44 Destiny
Aug 27th, 2011 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentine husbands and wives already do come to live in the Falklands. They just adopt the way of life agreed by the majority of Falkland Islanders.
We have an increasing number of Falkland Islander nurses and teachers, and have little need of your contract officers, thanks. Argentines are, however, perfectly entitled to apply for advertised jobs and come here on contract if there is no Falkland Islander to fill the post.
Your post is absolute rubbish and has nothing whatever to do with self determination. Islanders continue to make their wishes very clear. Which part of 'no' are you finding hard to understand? If you think losing your sovereignty, chosen form of government, language and culture are 'small compromises' you are either an idiot or a troll.
(i give it 20 years before Argentinians are living on those islands.)
Aug 27th, 2011 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Same old story told to us in the 1960's and by 1982 the Argies tried but due to the fact they had still not matured couldn't hack the fight.
Another writer comments on why he or she bothers to write on these forums supports what I said earlier. Unless you are prepared to accept that we the Falkland Island People exist and living on our own soverign land of our choosing don't bother to write anything because you obviously cannot accept we are right and you are so very wrong.
Ive been around for long enough to know that nothing the Argentines say can be trusted so any future sugestions of telling us how nice you are is going to be treated as a lie
@ 37 There are Argentines living in the falklands, and people from different countries. Do you believe that your attitude is a contribution? That man was given an Argentine passport only because the government believes that will make it easier to show the world how great is Cristina and how big is her heart :) she's so good :) she's like a mother :) whenever I watch this video and I see those people talking I can't believe they are evil and bloody pirates like the government and you people want everybody in Argentina to believe, I just see people in their home, why in the world would I support a government that wants to take from people their home? Sorry, but those guys in the video don't look like bloody pirates to me, they are pretty common young guys. Normal people.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk0RHqK-gek&feature=related
And oh, I may be a kindergardener like Marcos Alejandro has said, but at least I can see further than the tip of my nose, and I don't believe your lies :) the Falklands belong to the Falklanders, and nothing can change that. Not all of us are capable of being driven by your anti-british and fearmongering ideology when everyone can see the real facts and who's the teller of lies :) Generations of Argentines have been told lies, and if you people say you love our country, instead of teaching lies, you should be teaching the truth, and the truth is that the Falklands belong to the Falklanders, what will be the benefits for our country saying that the British people are pirates? do you know what that means for a kid when teackers tell him the story of the British pirates killing argentines? Tell it to only one kid and it's not a big deal, but tell it to thousands of kids who will grow up with that in mind and here we are, all of us :)
Isn’t it amazing how many quacks weirdoes and fools plus moles that come out of the woodwork to try and justify what simply does not exist?
Aug 27th, 2011 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is what happens when you listen to indoctrinated children,
These oddballs will never accept the truth, because they do not know the truth,
Only what they have been told, and read in the local dictator papers,
Complete crap, and they try ever so hard to convince us that its true,
Even when they suspect that claiming what is not yours is theft,
But just like other controlled countries, they will support their master right up until the end,
And then say the now famous words [I only said what I was told to say]
The Falklands are British, they have been administed for over a hundred years,
The people who was born there, wish to remain British, the minerals and oil, are theirs and theirs alone,
On the other hand, Argentina has had nothing to do with the islands, never owned them ,
And have no rights over them ,
It is now facts, that Argentina is only interested in stealing what they can’t , conn, out of them,
Argentina has this obsession with the islands, even at the demise of there own country,
Theft is theft, stealing is wrong, and you guys should be ashamed that you are actively supporting a corrupt dictatorship, to steal what id not yours,
You live in a great big country, and are still greedy for more land,
Thieves ,nothing but thieves, leave the Falklands alone,
Before you fools ignite more than you can handle, you can never be trusted,
Being british is by choice, , so look after your own business, and leave them alone ..
,,
“given the level of defensiveness that some posters manifest”
Aug 27th, 2011 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina wishes to subjugate them, ofcourse people are defensive.
“I believe that people on those islands will, in the decades to come, self determine to make use of all thats available a short hop away and that there will be small compromises made for this.”
I guess it's nice to have dreams. But it's not going to happen.
im not argentinian, today is m first post under this id, i may have been confused with someone else.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Im not finding 'no' difficult to understand, you're just not understanding that some people on here believing that they are in some kind of '300' siege are not thinking beyond the immediate future.
They're not going to 'win, theyre not going to grab some victory. They're not going to 'lose' in some defeat either. There is no finish line or race.
Time will move on and practicalities will dictate, even if some have to reluctantly give up the 'p1ss and vinegar' hero delusion and come to their senses.
I dont think argentina HAS to either threaten or tempt, just sit back with all it has to offer and be ready to extend a handshake to its acquaintance...then ..ally...then ..comrade..then..friend..then...family member.
The next generations alternative - dont compromise an inch and sit alone observing all those life chances wash away in the sea, cause daddy said theyre the opposition.
You'll do it for the sake of doing it - but will your kids when they finally become adults?
(37) and ( 44) Mr. Destiny:
Aug 27th, 2011 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting angle….
I disregarded your post at first but……………….. Re-reading them, watching the videos and judging by the reaction of the “enemy”, you touched a exposed nerve somewhere…………
Truth is that the British Sheepocrats and Squidocrats of Malvinas fear reasonable Argentineans the most….
Saludos
El Think
I have never seen a country [or government]
Aug 27th, 2011 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So obsessed over some islands,
That they don’t own//never owned//and never will own,
Its like have some desires and delirious dreams,
Deluded or what .
,
50
Aug 27th, 2011 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you were right Argentina wouldn't find the need to obstruct and threaten the Islands and Islanders.
But then you are wrong.
You could take the view that its only a matter of time before Argentina is swallowed up by its far larger and more successful Northern neighbour. Similar cultures you see.
a nerve that thinks,
Aug 27th, 2011 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0now thats an Interesting angle, but still wrong,
just like the spannish said abouth gibralter
the french over the channel islands
argentina has nothing the islanders want,
but want what is not theirs,
perhaps one day you lot will understand that,
the people will decide, the falklanders will decide,
not the argentinians , savvy
40,000,000 swallowed up ....year 2379
Aug 27th, 2011 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 03000 swallowed up .... year 2050 ( +/- 25)
37 Destiny, Nice videos!
Aug 27th, 2011 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 047 xbarilox, Your lies about your Argentinean nationality can only be compared to a kindergardener.
thats a lot of swallows lol.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr. Destiny........
Aug 27th, 2011 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say at (50) that you are not Argentinean.......
Without wishing to compromise you right to anonymity....... Would you mind telling where you are from?
Always nice to know the background of the people you are communicating with.
Regards
El Think (102% Argentinean)
Ah , isn’t he sweet , you anonymity is of great interest,
Aug 27th, 2011 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As long as you agree with him, how sweet,
He kills the conversation with his kindness, only acknowledging
His enduring interest, you will be in great company,
An intellectual with an
Interest in conversation
And he is only an 102% argentine
I wonder where he got the other 100% from.
Still you will make a great addition to his collection
He has many scalps, on his tepee,
For what its worth old boy
Welcome to the blogg lol.
[briton 2,000% british lol,,]
50 Destiny
Aug 27th, 2011 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Falkland Islanders would like nothing better than friendly relations with all our South American neighbours, and for most of the last 180 years that is what we have had. But we don't want it at the expense of our freedom.
Can I ask you if you think that the current Argentine attempts to cut off our links to South America and wreck our joint fishery seem to be a reasonable way forward? Or would you say that isolating us from SA would be less likely to see the attractions of a future apart from the UK?
51 Think
I don't fear anyone, but I do despise the patronising and ignorant.
Think
Aug 27th, 2011 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I just couldn’t pass that one up,
Still its still not on Parr with the little digs you give us sometimes,
I bet of this boggy, you’re an,
interesting politician, in the making,
You try ever so hard to convince us otherwise,
Mmmmm lol
Destiny==just as argentinians want to be argetine,=the falklanders wish to be british,
DO you find anything wrong with that .
(60) Monty96
Aug 27th, 2011 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say:
”Falkland Islanders would like nothing better than friendly relations with all our South American neighbours…………..”
I say:
Sure, ……..By using the British military might to decree an Exclusive Economic Zone and sell licenses to other rich countries of the north to fish over 400.000 tons of fish per year in South American waters……..
Sure……By using the British military might to decree an Exclusive Economic Zone and sell licenses to British oil companies to exploit the oil in South American waters……..
Friendly relations with South America my left foot……...................
You are just a small bunch of heavily armed, haughty British squatters whose sole intention is to plunder as much as you can, as fast as you can.
Then, as tradition goes on them Islands, you’ll do your best to retire to a more gentle, mild and placid location like the English countryside, New Zealand, South Africa or Australia.
Like is said, indoctrinated fools,
Aug 27th, 2011 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Listens only to what they want, but never the truth,
The only reason the British military is their,
Is because Argentina illegally and unjustifiably invaded an innocent and unarmed, defenceless people living peacefully on their little island,,
And people like think and other indoctrinated fools think that is ok,
They stole and desecrated the place, took unarmed woman and children hostages,
then got humiliated and kicked off the islands, by a tiny little island race, called great Britain, 8,000 miles away, out gunned-out manned-
And kicked your grubby little thieving backsides out of the islands,
So it all your fault, and you deserved what you got,
And you will receive the same treatment if you try it again,
No matter what THINK tell his cronies on here,
So don’t bother replying, the embarrassment would only back fire,
The Falklands are British full stop, SAVVY .
Ah the usual delusional twaddle from our resident racist El Thicko.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0From WW2 up to 1965, there was no permanent British military presence in the Falklands.
NP8901 was set up in the 1960s following an Argentine incursion involving a hijacked airliner. The terrorists went home to praise and laudits and later a state pension.
Np8901 consisted of 40 Royal Marines.
In 1982, Argentina attacked sending 2500 troops against 40 Royal Marines.
So basically the British military presence is there solely as a result of Argentine aggression. The continued presence of the garrison is solely because of the continued threat from Argentina.
Up till 1982, the Falkland Islands weren't allowed to exploit their natural resources for fear of offending Argentina. Since 1982, we don't care too much about Argentina spitting its dummy out but we did negotiate a treaty for joint admin and exploitation of the fisheries - an agreement Argentina tore up.
The EEZ stems from the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, http://www.un.org/Depts/los/index.htm, the revenue from selling licenses goes to the islanders.
9/10 generation islanders are not squatters, seeing as they've been there longer than most Argentines.
But typically the delusional twaddle blames everything on other people. It isn't their fault, the dog ate their homework.
Pretty pathetic really.
62 Think
Aug 27th, 2011 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lalalala...sticks and stones old chap.
You're just an unreconstructed colonialist aren't you? You're quite happy with us when we're poor and helpless and dependent. On you mainly. Oh and humble; I'm sensing you'd like some humility as well.
And where are all the retired farmers and fishing company owners? How about you tell me some that live in foreign parts and then I'll tell you some that are still in the Falkland Islands and we'll see whose list is the biggest.
Well I'll stay anonymous for now think, it doesnt take much to set some of these guys off, ive already been compared to hitler and i think my nationality would only cause a few seizures lol.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No briton I don't see anything abnormal or unusual there. Just as the Argentinians want control of those islands, the British want control of those islands too. So choose compromise.
If Argentinians tried to live on those islands they'd be forced off by Falklanders.
If the falklanders give nothing to Argentina , Argentina gives nothing to the falklands, but thats no way to co-exist or to live your life.
Why not come to an agreement, the islands are bigger than 3000 people could ever even hope make use of, and a little underdeveloped too.
Why not allow negotiated agreed numbers of Argentinian people to live there as they wish.
Argentina would have much to offer. Mutual benefit, both sides prosper. Certain Falklanders would have the benefits of both british and Arg passports. The mutually agreed number argentinian residents would have use of the falklands. Its not like 40,000,000 will come clambering for an application.
Look, you cant sit sulking alone forever. A little give and take wont hurt. 100 dual citizenships both ways to start.
Whats the alternative in the long-long term?
So the Argentines want to be more friendly do they.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Embargo on our shipping links.
Control of the chillean flights to our Country
Refuses to have us sit with their leaders on mutual talks.
Try to brain wash our children like they do with their own with gimmic Rugby players.
Won't accept that we are real people with an identity.
Sucks up to the united nations for sympathy because 3,000 people they refuse to acknowledge are winning this political game.
Do I need to go on.
Falkland Islanders are a breed far superrior than any latin American because not once have they taken up arms against their neighbours.
Falkland Islanders whish to remain of a British Culture and determine their own future so Argentina get used to it. We will never in a million years let alone 20 years betray each other and acept any form of Argentine rule. We will however acept your people as a friendly nation if you have the guts to drop your stupid claim. You know you will never win us over and you also know that we are backed by a democratic Country who unlike you believe in the freedom of choice.
I suspect many other Countries would also support this if push come to real shove.
Anyway chances are in 20 years from now we will have quadrupled our population and likely be the only nation in the4 world with a vast oil supply then let us see who calls the shots
Mmm, I would stay anonymous as El Thicko likes to hide behind an anonymous pseudonym whilst stalking anyone who disagrees with him.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For info, there are Argentines living in the islands and always have been. And you're wrong, the British don't want control of the islands, they only wish to see the islanders decide their future.
Tell me, who can there be “compromise”, when Argentina has torn up every agreement ever achieved and will only accept complete capitulation to its demands.
Let the islanders decide their own future, theres a thought. Don't you consider it a tad arrogant that never once did you consider they have a say in the matter.
Think- evidence please of overfishing around Falklands and South Georgia etc- please produce it. Real and up to date please - not old binghams whinges!
Aug 27th, 2011 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0SG is internationally recognizes as a very well managed environmentally sound fisheries zone with UN accredited status to CCAMLAR.
Falklands and SG are world LEADERS in stopping large scale albatross and other seabird deaths whilst fishing - that is a fact - look it up.
We had a Joint Fisheries Conservation and Management programme with Argentina - tell me WHO tore it up and went off in a sulk? Your navy and patrol vessels even had the right of hot-persuit to chase illegal fishers from your side into ours and right up to our territorial limit - I recall they did a couple of times, and nailed the baddies.
You openly admit your side is deliberatley overfishing in your ares with the aim of destroying fish stocks in the whole South West Atlantic so as to hurt our fisheries.
Anybody can come along and buy an oil licence if they wish to and present the paperwork to the Islands Minerals Dept. If large fields are located then its bound to happen.
We even had a joint area zone with Arg - who tore that one up and has sulked ever since?
Islanders leaving to retire overseas? - OK list their names please.
Destiny - Britain herself does NOT want to control the Islands. And she only controls the Defence and Foreign Affairs of the Islands - with our agreement as we need them to. We- The Islanders control everything else - including the offshore hydrocarbons and fisheries. Argentines can - and DO live here no problem. Our immigration rules are exactly the same for an Argentine or a Brit - or a Chilean or anyone when they apply for a workpermit.
66 Destiny
Aug 27th, 2011 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you really think you would find 100 Falkland Islanders who would want Argentine passports?
And I already told you; Argentines do live in the islands.
Another thing you need to understand is that Britain does not want control of the islands. Britain wants the Falkland Islanders to determine their own future. We could become part of Argentina tomorrow if we chose. We don't choose.
70 Monty69
Aug 27th, 2011 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“We don't choose”
You got that right, you don't. London does it for you and hides their selfish interests on Malvinas under the silly pretext of self determination whenever they feel like it.
(or not like Chagos Islands)
71 Marcos Alejandro
Aug 27th, 2011 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You might think that self determination is a 'silly pretext', and your saying so explains to others better than I could ever do why we don't want anything to do with you except on our own terms.
I really don't think you want to rehash the whole Chagos Islands thing. It doesn't support your cause at all.
(66) Destiny
Aug 27th, 2011 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Must be some “Nationality” you have to cause a few seizures…. :-)))
Amandla
66 Destiny , yours has been answered by islanders themselves,
Aug 27th, 2011 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like some indoctrinated people, or those who grab the wrong end of the stick, fail to understand,, it ,is as stated Argentina who has caused all this, Argentina who tears up agreements, Argentina who is blockading,
And you want to know why the islander’s don’t want nothing to do with them,
The Falklands has [in argies own words] the same rights and claims as Argentineans,
Thus the Falklands have an equal claim on Argentina, as visa, versa,,,
All people like you are interested in, is the Falklands controlled by Argentina, nothing else, yet always state , not to take sides,
as I have said before, if ARGENTIN was under claimed by the Falklands, threatened-blockaded-abused, you would be the first to complain, but totally ignore, the point , when on the other foot, or like think and the rest, go very quiet and bypass the subject,,
The Falkland people freely and democratically wish to remain British,
Anyone who disagrees with that point of view is either a hypercrit, or very stupid,
the people have a right to say who controls them, just like some free peoples in the middle east that are fighting for just that right,
and as the brits play by the rules, if the ICJ went against us, we would not like it, but we would comply,
So you should consider, why Argentina refuses to go to the ICJ,
Its because not only would they lose, but it would lose them the very little support they now partly have .
You cannot compromise with a nation that refuses to acknowledge you .
“The Falkland Islands are in the south Atlantic. Not South America!”
Aug 27th, 2011 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Show's how great British schools are. FalkLands Islands are located in the continent America, and to be be precise, the sub continent South America.
Geo..are you going to play that dumb dumb game or is that school where you're going that bad.
the Ireland +Britain islands are in the North Atlantic,not Europe !
You can split the Atlantic ocean in all you want, North, South, but it's still the Atlantic Ocean. Ireland and UK are located in Continent Europe.
Hello, the dog's back! The Falkland Islands sit in the south west Atlantic, that doesn't make them a part of South America necessarily.
Aug 28th, 2011 - 12:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0They certainly don't wish to be.
I see Think has woken up. Just ignore him, only an old unreconstructed marxist who offers little in the way of evidence for anything.
Busy night I see.
Still, let us get to the important bit - are the Falkland Island's still British ? Yes! Because the islanders' wish it so? Yes!
Magnificent :-)))
#75 “ FalkLands Islands are located in the continent America, and to be be precise, the sub continent South America. ”
Aug 28th, 2011 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0South America isn't a sub-continent... it is a continent . The Falklands , while part of the south american continent, are adjacent to continental South America.
”Ireland and UK are located in Continent(sic) Europe.” Not so ... while part of Europe they aren't part of continental Europe which is the woggy bit as in 'Wogs begin at Calais'
How is it??
Aug 28th, 2011 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has to talk of what you want
but, you dont have to talk of what Argentina wants???
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Dont expect Argentina or the region to accept as regular situation an ilegal ocupation. Argentina has the right of claiming sovereignty pacifically, and is doing it thay way.
Meanwhile you choose to be a britain overseas territory 14000 km away, part of EU, take the advantages and also the difficults of this. And spend money........Its not our problem.
Blockade?? Come on, squidmillonaires, enjoying exotic meals with an enrgic tourism.
72 Monty69 “I really don't think you want to rehash the whole Chagos Islands thing. It doesn't support your cause at all”
Aug 28th, 2011 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Actually it does, it clearly shows the silly excuses used by the British Government trying to hold their last remaining colonies around the World.
Malvinas silly excuse: self determination.
Chagos islands silly excuse: Plan for a marine protected area.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/mar/29/chagos-island-marine-reserve-plans
argentina has said numerous times they will respect the culture and lifestyle of the kelpers, so i don't know what the paranoia is all about. and destiny is right, they would benefit greatly from the union. argentines have little interest in inhabiting those islands. its cold and wet. proof is in the population density of the patagonian provinces. what is unacceptable is the occupation by a foreign country of a sovereign territory.
Aug 28th, 2011 - 03:04 am - Link - Report abuse 080 Troneas “argentina has said numerous times they will respect the culture and lifestyle of the kelpers, so i don't know what the paranoia is all about”
Aug 28th, 2011 - 03:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Communique No1, No2, No3,........
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?107232-Falklands-25/page14
all this ia academic as a member of the malvinas government - mike summers- said in 1998 during the first phase of oil exploration that:
Aug 28th, 2011 - 04:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0If oil is found then the falklands may ask for complete independence from britain and might be happy to pay a foreign mercenary army to protect it.
And the population of the falklands supported him in his statement.
Says everything doesnt it?
Sorry Frank - check your definitions of 'adjacent' and I suggest a quick look at the Continental Shelf Cases 1969 – http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/51/5535.pdf
Aug 28th, 2011 - 04:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not 'adjacent' at all :-)
Mad'un - what Argentina wants and what Argentina is likely to get are two different things. The law is the law and we have it on our side :-)
MoreCrap - the Chagos are irrelevant. Try to focus lad :-)
Trousers - if you don't want to live there, then leave them to those that do .... and they're British :-)
Icy - good to know that you can count - to 3 at least :-)
Fantasy - yes it does, it says that the islanders' are determined to decide their own future :-)
Any adults on this site ??
“argentina has said numerous times they will respect the culture and lifestyle of the kelpers, so i don't know what the paranoia is all about.”
Aug 28th, 2011 - 07:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well they said that numerous times before 1982 and then did exactly the opposite. Once bitten twice shy, the Falkland Islanders don't trust Argentina - with very good reason.
“what is unacceptable is the occupation by a foreign country of a sovereign territory.”
The Falklands never have been Argentine territory. Talk about paranoia...
“Truth is that the British Sheepocrats and Squidocrats of Malvinas fear reasonable Argentineans the most….”
I would have thought that's the last thing they have to fear. It's nutters like you they need to worry about.
redhoyte - you said: “ the Islanders are determined to decide their own future”
Aug 28th, 2011 - 07:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0So you would happily abandon your british passport and loyalty to britain in exchange for cash even though it would mean making a deal with argentina?
That says even more about you.
Fantasy - I'm not an islander!
Aug 28th, 2011 - 08:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0If they want independence that's up to them.
If they want to become a part of Argentina, then that's up to them.
If they want to stay a part of Britain, then that's up to them.
It is not up to me ..... it is not up to you!
The Falkland Islands belong to the islanders and that is the way it should be !!
“Argentina has much to offer”
Aug 28th, 2011 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0So cut the supercilious shite and make a few constructive offers.
“British ............fear reasonable Agentines the most”
There aren't any - only ugly botox stuffed politicians, cowardly military, cry baby rugby players, cheating footballers, facists, hypocrites and supercilious tits.
So keep the horses head routine and make us a real offer we can't refuse.
Problem is you cant because the Kirchner creature has whipped you boys and girls into a proper state of nationalistic fervour that any potentially acceptable offer would mean she would have to back down and lose face....... even if it is plastic.
for all i hear,the Falklands' government readies for a decision on
Aug 28th, 2011 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mercosur membership !!
here is the sane government !!
Keep it up. lads & lassies, we've got the Argentines on the run.
Aug 28th, 2011 - 09:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0They've come up with nothing new, just repeating the same tired old ridiculous arguements that mean js.
@56MarcosAlejandro,
Whats the matter, Marcos? Don't you like it because an Argentine speaks the truth about OUR lslands & YOUR indoctrination?
lt's a brave Argentine that goes against the party line.
@66Destiny,
lf you're not from the Falklands then all this has got nothing to do with you. Who do you think you are, deciding our future? And pointing out the so-called“advantages”of Argentine rule. WE will decide what's good for us, thank you very much. Please depart.
@80Troneas,
Thats big of you, you will respect the culture & lifestyle of the Falklands will you? How nice for us. Well our lifestyle does not include being an Argentine colony. You do not own this land & we do not want to be Argentines(surprising as that may seem to you!).
@62Think,
When we've had enough here, Cher Think, we might just take over Patagonia. Well why not? lf you can claim our land then we can claim yours. Don't forget o haughty turnip, the British were in Patagonia when your ancestors were still trying to make a living growing swedes & turnips in cold old Sweden(or where ever).
@78malen,
Not even worth an answer.
i believe that the falklanders will be more wealthier
Aug 28th, 2011 - 09:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0when ,after the entering into Mercosur !!
good lucks to all falklanders !!
BUT
i don't guess the South Georgia & Sandwich island will be able to
enter into Mercosur...their integration could be with Antarctica !!
You have to hand it to MI5 and their paid journalists for articlea like this.Their level of brazenness is awe inspiring.They demand the right to govern distant islands 10000 kms away whilst the home country is in a blaze of riots.The poor brainwashed fools on the periphery brought up with land of hope and glory and rule brittania have two choices get 50 pounds a week on the dole half the rest of Europe at best or save the empire.We see all these unfortunate brainwashed fools here trying to justify their pathetic existence allied to the planters.Unfortunately for them and luckily for the rest of us the tide is quickly turning and their elites hegemonic days are almost over
Aug 28th, 2011 - 09:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hello Ogara me lad, now when were you last in “Los Malvinas?”(ha ha).
Aug 28th, 2011 - 09:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Didn't think you'd have the gall to raise your head again after that one(aristocratically raised eyebrow).
Geo- Falklands becoming part of mercosur - hopefully so oneday say I. As its Sunday can I daydream? - One day we will be a (small) - but still Independent country(part of the British Commonwealth like N.Z.Canada,Aust etc etc). A way will have been found for Arg to agree to our independence, and we will be good neighbours with close economic,trade travel ties etc. There will be only minimal armed forces here, as any country needs some for defence and emergencies. Yes we will be a member of mercosur and as such a small member we cannot have diplomats everywhere so we might even accept that Arg actually represents us there! SG and SSandwich Islands not being part of our territory will not be ours and could well be part of an extended Antarctica with the SG and SSI “area” being administered from Stanley on behalf of the Ant Treaty for practical goegraphical reasons
Aug 28th, 2011 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sadly tomorrow is Monday - but who knows - one day?
Hello, O'GaGa the marxist Irishman without a cause is back. Talk about brainwashed lol
Aug 28th, 2011 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0MI5 ? :-) I wish, could do with the money lol
Hell, I'm doing this for the pure pleasure !
buy one, get an irishman free .... couldn't be better lol
Repeat of what I said in another comment
Aug 28th, 2011 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Strange is it not how the Argentines continue to challange not only the existance or rights of Falkland Islanders but that they also accuse others of acts in many other countries YET never do they admit to the terriblr way in which they colonised the land they now call Argentina. Countless thousands of people over the years have died at the hands of ruthless Argentine dictators and in all honesty does not look like it is about to stop any time soon. Yet these same people have the nerve to say that WE the Falkland Island people were implanted by Britain when the fact is our ancestors the pioneers of this great little Country came not just from Britain but from many parts of the world, so how can any Argentine claim that we are an implanted species wheras the opposite can be said for those Argentine people who most deffinatly were implanted from Spain the rest who live there did exactly as our ancestors did they saw an oppertunity to adventure yet the Argentines make no mention of this fact because it is a hard pill to swallow to acept that many of their fellow contry men and women settled there from that unregonised place called the BRITISH EMPIRE . Millions of these decendants live in Argentina yet not once have I read any Argentina challange that these people were implanted so why do they believe that we are.
It makes me so proud to be British living in MY Country with the rights afforded to me. Pity the vast Majority of Argentines vant claim the same.
Isolde - Thats not very nice. I could be from the falklands for all you know - i'll type quieter just in case.
Aug 28th, 2011 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But yeah, I would say 100 people+ from those islands would be ready to take up some sort of offer of dual citizenship with Argentina. I dont think they'd be some kind of traitors, just people who would look at the bigger picture and see past the gotcha tabloids of the 80's.
Will it take lots of six toed albinos and anxious looking sheep before someone realises theres something no so right about 3000 excluding the 40 million next door.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZBONSaQtB4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZBONSaQtB4
Future islander generations will obviously be willing to .....move closer. ;)
3000 Brits v 40 million Argies = No contest. Another win to the Brits :-)
Aug 28th, 2011 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not so right, nah - not so wrong!
Oh Red Shut up !!!! :-)))
Aug 28th, 2011 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@94
On a different note, what makes an Englishman better than Irish or Scott ? Are you “trying” to be cute again ??
40 MILLION ARGENTINES HAVE RITE TO THESE ISLANDS.
Aug 28th, 2011 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BUT ISLANDERS HAVE NO RITES, THEIR WISHES NEED TO BE STAMPED ON!!!!
LAS MALVINAS WILL BE BEATIFUL ONLY WHEN ARGENTINA BUILDS CITIES NEEDED FOR EXPANDING ARGENTINE POPULATION.
WE WISH TO COLONISE THESE ISLANDS TO ENSURE THAT THEIR FUTURE IS SAFE IN OUR HANDS. WE WISH TO BUILD ROADS AND CITIES AND TOWNS AND PORTS AND BUILD OIL WELLS AND GAS FACILITIES< WIND FARMS< SOLAR FARMS, MOTORWAYS, PORTS.
IN SHORT WE WISH TO BRING ARGENTINE CIVILISATION TO LAS MALVINAS AND WISH TO ELIMINATE ALL COLONIALS THERE.
“ARGENTINE CIVILISATION”
Aug 28th, 2011 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A contradiction in terms if I ever saw one!
Filippo - actually the Falkland Islands are AHEAD of Argentina in Wind Power - we produce near 40% average of Stanley,s electric energy from Wind Turbines- we are out in front as the country with the biggest % of renewable energy in the world. In the rural areas a large % is also wind/solar power .
Aug 28th, 2011 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Quite capable of building our own oil well extraction facilities and only an arse(eg you) would build a gas facility unless you find some commercial gas to put through it!
96 Destiny
Aug 28th, 2011 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're not from the Falklands though are you? You're another racist and closet colonialist.....
'six toed albinos and anxious looking sheep'......you can keep that to yourself. Horrid.
Chuckle chuckle™
Aug 28th, 2011 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Six toed albinos and anxious looking sheep”…………………………..
Young Mr. Destiny is definitely touching some exposed nerve in Malvinas.
89 lsolde, He is not an Argentinean, he lives in Argentina like you.
Aug 28th, 2011 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're not from the Falklands though are you? You're another racist and closet colonialist.....
Aug 28th, 2011 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://cheezburger.com/View/2495295744
@ Destiny (#)
Aug 28th, 2011 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The colonials of las malvinas are NOT WELCOME on our islands. WHAT ARE YOU SOCIALISTA? Where were you in 82? You should have been disapeared!
Still no offer from Destiny's bastard child.
Aug 28th, 2011 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And these are the peeps that say they wanna negotiate.
Tell me tosser what would your opening statement be if HMG ever condescended to sit down and talk with your Arturo the Clown.
Would it be give us the Islands and if you don't like it f--k off. Hitler adopted the same attitude to peeps less powerful than Nazi Germany that he thought he could bully. Seems like fascism is alive and kicking in Argentina but just remember the UK don't do appeasement anymore.
The Falklands are an original, distinct and special community that would have been an independent nation long ago if it hadn't been for Argentina's aggressive expansionist ambition. An ambition that must be confronted and defeated in the South Atlantic and when the time comes Antartica.
Here's NEWS for the RGs. The Falklands Archipelago, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands all belong, variously, to the Falkland Islanders and the United Kingdom.
Aug 28th, 2011 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing any slimy dagos can do about it. Legally, or illegally.
Try it legally and we'll prove to the whole world how stupid and ignorant you are.
Try it illegally and I'm in favour of blasting you off the face of the planet. In this day and age, there's no sense in revisiting a problem twice. You had your last illegal chance in 1982 and got your ass kicked. Try it again and I'll vote in favour of kicking your head in.
I see some are slowly descending into trash again, the argie moles are taking orders to change subjects, add in supposes and what if;s, and if that don’t work, throw in the old empire trick,
Aug 28th, 2011 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We it really does not matter as the brits are for to superior to listen to such rubbish,
The Falklands are British, and always will be, right up to the day they decide other wise,
The SG and S.SANDWICH islands are British territory, and will remain so, right up to the day we decide otherwise,
And there is nothing, but nothing that Argentina or her buddies can do about it, other that talk,
Right up to the day, others get bored and go home,
One day the world will look south, and have a great interest, the British will already be their,
The Americans are already in the region, and the Chinese and Russian are already investing millions so they will be in a position , when the time comes, Chile will be ready as will brazil and the rest, but sadly Argentina, if she hasn’t torn herself apart, or sold out to others, , this obsession with the Falklands will tear her apart, but as you are so indoctrinated, you will never see it coming, so argie bloggers, you go on believing what your told, and receive your instructions from your fellow moles,
And be anti British, while all the time, your leaders are slowly tearing your own country apart,
[and guess what, the union jack is still creeping over the south Atlantic]
,
108 Conqueror: We've plenty of instant sunshine missiles laying around.
Aug 28th, 2011 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Morning all - did you know that we have the Falkland Islands to thank for our win in the Battle of Trafalgar ?
Aug 28th, 2011 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ .. When 12 year old Horatio Nelson joined the Royal Navy, in 1771, he did so through the patronage of his mother’s brother, Captain Maurice Suckling, who was able to take on the boy as a midshipman because the fleet was mobilizing for a possible war with Spain, over the ownership of the Falkland Islands...”
http://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/1768-1771/
Apparently there had been defence cuts before 1770 - just goes to show how the Spanish and their descendants get the wrong idea every time we decide to save a bit of cash ;-)
@ Redhoyt
Aug 29th, 2011 - 02:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is who we have to blame for Trafalgar Sq and Nelsons Colum in Montreal!!! He was a pirate and your are all pirates go home to your pirate islands.
Big Ben and Plaza Britannia in Buenos Aires will be bulldozed soon!!!
We need build a large monument in place of that English Tower monstrosity to Pope Alexander VI and the papal bull that granted all of South America to Spain. Next to Pope Alexander VI we should build a statue of an Abipon indian with an inscription stating how Pope Alexander VI benefited indiginous population. And a statue of Juan Esteban Mestivier who unlike Vernet stood his ground and stood up to his coward men, sadly he was hung by these same coward men!!!
@112 Filippo,
Aug 29th, 2011 - 08:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why aren't you in bed, niño? You've got school tomorrow.
@96 Destiny,
Was it hard to hold the camera steady & chase after the sheep at the same time?
Have you ever been to the Falklands ?
Are you angry because we don't want the Argentine gene pool added to ours?
l would prefer 6 toed albinos to nasty, illogical malvinistas any day!
FYI, there are a lot of diverse races present in the Falklands.
Blather what you like, you will NEVER get OUR land.
Why don't you go back to Italy Filippo? Talk about closet colonials...
Aug 29th, 2011 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Destiny (96), you really do not know what you are talking about. I am a Falkland Islander in their 20s and I would never turn my back on my country and take Argentine citizenship, and I know fellow members of my generation wouldnt either. Even a young family member of mine (under the age of ten) already dislikes Argentina because they know Argentina are preventing the shops importing fresh fruit on a regular basis.
Aug 29th, 2011 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina are creating much antipathy amongst Falkland Islanders of all ages, it is not confined to those who were held at gupoint or systematically arrested by Argentine forces in 1982.
Do not make wild generalisations based on nothing.
@114
Aug 29th, 2011 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr Roberts, are you ex Navy? Just a question
Way to go. 12,000 sq,km's among 3000. 40,000,000 neighbours. sheep for company. but not the brains to realise if you stop turning your back on them they might stop turning their back on you.
Aug 29th, 2011 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If i was king of those islands id offer a hong kong style deal (100 years) with terms for a gradual integration into a union, plus allow for some immediate agreed number of permanent resident applications. ( maybe even restrict to those who would benefit the local economy)
Its likely the two countries will integrate in the very long term anyway, we'll be long gone by then.
In any case, like i said its not like there would be a rush on applications.
In the meantime relations to the evil boogiemen argies could improve, you could have strong trade links, better transport, cheaper goods and benefits of their country and market. Your kids and grandkids would be better off, growing up in a more developed and diverse town , you could probably even have some kind of dual citizenship agreement with the uk so they'd have use of all 3 countries.
But anyway, speculation, Im not there, I live in a city far far away.
Thats just some advice on getting the best deal. You folks probably could get those terms in present day. id take them over the alternative any day.
(yes i know im not king)
(no not fuhrer either)
Destiny, why not just let the Falkland Islanders decide about their own future. Surely they are in a better position to decide what the best deal for them is - not some guy “in a city far far away”?
Aug 29th, 2011 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“not the brains to realise if you stop turning your back on them they might stop turning their back on you” Oh, the Islanders have brains Destiny. It seems you don't though. Perhaps you should put yourself in their shoes for a bit and see what Argentina looks like from their perspective.
Anyway, I don't see how integration with Argentina will improve transport or make goods cheaper. It may provide a market, but then the Falklands would have to surrender their tax revenues to BsAs and experience shows that the downside to that would far outweigh access to the Argie market... Not to mention the fact that Argentina never keeps to its word, so the promise of protecting the Islanders' “way of life” is hollow (experience in 1982 backs that up). There's absolutely no guarantee their kids and grandkids will be better off under Argie rule. In fact, pretty much everything points in the opposite direction. Oh and how would dual citizenship be an improvement?
@Artillero. No.
The New Territories lease was for 99 years. There was no 100 years deal over Hong Kong. Hong Kong island was British and China did not dispute that. Sadly, without the New territories the island was not viable, so we gave it away.
Aug 29th, 2011 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We won't give the Falklands away.
@119
Aug 29th, 2011 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On a different note and more relevant to the note , Red, Do you have spinners on the Jag or not?
Let them decide about their own future ....NEVER.... i am an boogieman thousands of miles away, my master scheme is to devestate the population of those wonderful islands and keep all 12,000 sq km for myself. a hahahaha.
Aug 29th, 2011 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0im going to dictate how things should be.
OR ELSE.
yeah but anyway - transport - more flights more locations.
cheaper goods - less shipping costs, better selection.
Destiny,
Aug 29th, 2011 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just out of curiousity. Are you aware that the Falkland Islands Government proposed direct talks with the Argentine Government?
Argentina refused.
In fact, if you look at every agreement ever achieved over the Falklands, Argentina has torn it up.
I'm also curious, how can Argentina profess to “respect” their way of life, when in the next breath it turns around denouncing them as squatters and an implanted population (quite ironic considering Argentina's history).
So Destiny's offer is a re-hash of the Hong Kong arrangement.
Aug 29th, 2011 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is that it, how long did it take for you to come up with that?
Not very imaginative if you don't mind me saying, especially from someone in a City far far away.
Your advice about sheep and turning your back would be better aimed at Argentina. Get them to drop their aggressive stance. Tell them to make the first moves in developing ties and trade with the Islanders. In short Argentina needs a charm offensive rather than the supercilious short term attitudes all to frequently displayed by Argentinians here.
The trauma of 1982 and the sulky pathetic policies of the Kirchner regimes mean that there is no easy fix. We are talking generations before Argentinians can even start to be considered as worthy of trust.
“yeah but anyway - transport - more flights more locations”
Aug 29th, 2011 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No guarantee of that. Only if viable, and given the FI population I doubt it...
“cheaper goods - less shipping costs, better selection.”
What, like is it going to be much cheaper than shipping from Pta Arenas? How? And what's wrong with the selection now? I bet West Store has a much better selection than the average Argie supermarket of the same size.
indocrinaten people no not what they say,
Aug 29th, 2011 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0its said for them .
It took me a couple of seconds to come up with that, no its not very imaginative but ill bet it would be more effective and beneficial than anything offered so far.
Aug 29th, 2011 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0im sure the islanders have plenty of seconds to think up something better and clearer for one of the major issues affecting their homeland.
Im guessing 20 years should be enough figuring out time.
Thats for them to decide (damn their free speech and democracy). They may have to offer a bit more than the offers that were torn up, but im sure the benefits would outweigh the costs. Their biggest obstacles will probably be the folks still stuck in 1982....however long they last.
I dont think there'll be a charm offensive...or any offensive at all.
Im out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0lHeXll1jc
[] - 124 J.A
Aug 29th, 2011 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 020 % Argentine ! not 102 % Argentine ..!!
i wait a Republican British character to comment here ..!!
Destiny, you give me the impression that you believe that somehow the Falkland Islands and its people have offended Argentina and we are the ones needing to repair the relationship between the two countries....do you not know that they invaded us and forced to change our identity, language, culture etc when they occupied these islands? You honestly believe we should forget what happened 29 years ago and assume they will be nice to us? Do you not know what they are currently trying to do to us now? Instead of military aggression they are trying to impose a shipping blockage on the Falklands and trying to control flights to the Falklands? And you appear to make out like we have done something wrong to them? We are trying to live our lives in peace, while a country of 40,000,000 tries to force itself upon us.
Aug 29th, 2011 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You really need to brush up on the subject before you start trying to give us advice.
Mmm, I notice the usual pattern of ignoring awkward questions.
Aug 29th, 2011 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So, let me get this straight.
Argentina invaded.
Argentina has torn up all agreements.
Argentina doesn't recognise the right of the Falkland Islanders to exist.
Argentina is trying to damage their economy and put road blocks in the way.
And Destiny's solution is for the Falkland Islanders to offer more concessions, that the previous agreements with Argentina and to “trust” Argentina to respect their way of life.
Have I got it right?
Folks stuck in 1982? Mmm, don't think so, there have been a couple of generations since, they learnt to mistrust Argentina through Argentine actions, nothing to do with a war nearly 30 years ago. Compare this with the relations between the UK and Germany in 1945.
Oh and again the FIG have already suggested a dialogue, you ignored that. The biggest obstacel is Argentina's attitudes.
indoctrinated people like him,
Aug 29th, 2011 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cannot brush up on nothing,
He understands nothing,
He sees nothing, only what he is told,
But he just cant see it, just like the rest of them, there replies says it all,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Argentina illegally invaded a little peaceful island, they were unarmed-defenceless
It was wholly unprovoked,
Argentina, took innocent woman and children hostage,
They defecated the place, put mines everywhere, and they are still injuring today,
Argentina has ruined the Falklands character forever,
They threaten the innocent people,
They try to blockade them,
They refuse to acknowledge, them, they tore up all contracts, and they are [as proved] just after the oil,
After everything that this degrading and disgusting nation has done,
AND YOU THINK THEY SHOULD BE ARGENTINE,
You are either indoctrinated,, or indoctrinated, you choose ..
But they want to be British, and that is the end of it,
And the British military will defend that right .
@Very well explained by Alejandro Argerich.
Aug 30th, 2011 - 01:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0One word. Nootka.
The British could only disembark temporarily in the Georgias and Sandwich islands.
The passage of time does not transform an illegal act in a legal fact.
England illegally invaded a little peaceful island, they were unarmed-defenceless
It was wholly unprovoked
England has ruined the Malvinas character forever,
They threaten the innocent people
They refuse to acknowledge, them, they tore up all treated.
The paradox is that the ground you tread is Argentine
Nootka does not apply, and Ailing Arg could not make it so!
Aug 30th, 2011 - 02:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0No uti possidetis juris either, so what happened between Spain and Britain is of no use to Argentina.
Good to see the message getting out though - :-))
http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2011/08/30/interesting-times/
Art, I have them on my pick-up :-))
Bit of a joke an Argie talking about broken Treaties !
” 1832 - July 24th, Baylies writes to Secretary of State, Edward Livingston opposing the signing of any Treaty between the US and Buenos Aires, ” … for we would abide by it, and they would consider the violation of a treaty no greater offense than a lie told by a schoolboy …. “.
You Argies have a bad reputation in the Treaties business ... ask the neighbours :-)
“One word. Nootka.
Aug 30th, 2011 - 03:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0The British could only disembark temporarily in the Georgias and Sandwich islands.”
Malvi,
You are crap at geography. Not only are the SG & SS not adjacent to South America, they aren't even south of any former Spanish territory.
Are you leaving for good, Destiny? Oh goody(good riddance).
Aug 30th, 2011 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thats all we need, another“expert”adding his 2 cents worth of solutions to matters that are none of his business.
Destiny, get it through your thick skull that we don't like Argentina & certainly don't owe them anything at all.
@124 J.A. Roberts (#)
Aug 30th, 2011 - 09:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Report abuse
““yeah but anyway - transport - more flights more locations”
No guarantee of that. ”
....and once you get to Santiago the world is your oyster....
“ I bet West Store has a much better selection than the average Argie supermarket of the same size.”
..... better... you can buy sugar and butter in West Store...
131 Malvinarse
Aug 30th, 2011 - 09:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The passage of time does not transform an illegal act in a legal fact”
eeer like Your descendants annexing indigenous territory under very illegal methods?
He's not heard of 'aquisitive prescription' (adverse possession) or 'extinctive prescription' then !
Aug 30th, 2011 - 09:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0“..... better... you can buy sugar and butter in West Store...”
Aug 30th, 2011 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly, not just better selection, but what you get is much better quality too.
Never mind the quality ..last time I was in a BA supermercado sugar was rationed and butter nonexistant .. and the lamb is that expensive it comes gift boxed ..
Aug 30th, 2011 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Doubt if things have improved....
@11 Philippe:
Aug 30th, 2011 - 12:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentineans should stay in their own big territory and cease grabbing other people's land.”
That's funny, coming from a country (the UK) that grabbed everything they could during their “Empire” years... Why didn't they stay in their own island and ceased grabbing land from people in Africa, America, Asia,....
and the gift boxed lamb is rarely available anyway....
Aug 30th, 2011 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and in West Store they have Lamb's Navy Rum.... can't get that in RG land....
@140 ... and the UK was different from Germany, France, Spain, Belgium, Portugal, Holland, Russia, Japan, etc etc ad infinitum how exactly?
@141
Aug 30th, 2011 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“and the UK was different from Germany, France, Spain, Belgium, Portugal, Holland, Russia, Japan, etc etc ad infinitum how exactly?”
Absolutely no different at all, I'm just saying that the argument just doesn't hold viceversa (Uk-Arg) as stated.
Point taken but I think the point being made was that that was then ,... now is now... ”Argentineans should stay in their own big territory and cease grabbing other people's land. *****Silly irredentist claims were all right in the 19th Century- not anymore!*****'
Aug 30th, 2011 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Iklein...the UK and many other European powers hundreds of years ago did believe having an Empire was the best way forward. Hundreds of year later, in the present day, these countries know that the best way forward is self-determination and human rights, and have, in particular Britain, allowed many countries to govern themselves or gain independence.
Aug 30th, 2011 - 12:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What you are suggesting is...because Britain did it, Argentina can too. Well Britain's opinion and policy on its “empire” is very much different now. If Argentina wants to implement failed policies of hundreds of years ago, it only proves how third world and backward they are as a nation.
@132
Aug 30th, 2011 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Art, I have them on my pick-up ..... Fascinating !! Are you sure you are not from Texas ?
Governor Perry , next president of the United States, any questions?
@143
Aug 30th, 2011 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@144
I agree. You have a case there too. What was the way for nations in 19th century doesn't have to remain valid today.
However I'm not so sure about the Malvinas/Falklands being “independent” and “self determined” as you suggest. On the contrary, a strongly defended British territory indeed. You can find the expression “They are British. Full stop” stated by many posters here over and over again. And British they are today that's for sure. Therefore as long as the almost 100% british population in those islands claim for their so called “self determination” (in other words, British property, being the claimers british) there's definitely no weakness in Uk's position on the matter.
That is why I don't see any change possible in the foreseeable future for this hole issue with the Malvinas/Falklands. Argentina cannot take it back again by force. UK will not give them away. Population in those islands want to remain “self determined” under Britain rule and protection. UN does not seem to have neither the strength nor the will to enter into that mess.
Oh well.
Ah, Governor Perry, who believes in Creationism ! Don't that just scare the sh*t out of ya!
Aug 30th, 2011 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No shit !!! I'm not to crazy to have another cowboy in the White House ... God save us all !!!
Aug 30th, 2011 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”That's funny, coming from a country (the UK) that grabbed everything they could during their “Empire” years...“
Aug 30th, 2011 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yup, but the Empire is long over. Dead by the end of the 1960s with a few small exceptions. The Falkland Islanders WANT to retain the link. They are free to take independence at any time. The UK will not stop them.
”Why didn't they stay in their own island and ceased grabbing land from people in Africa, America, Asia,....“
Yup, colonialism is inexcusable, which is why the UK has dismantled its Empire. Quite a few decades ago. Every former colony has been offered independence and the vast majority of them have taken it. Perhaps you need to update your knowledge a bit. Raising the ”colonialism“ card is so lame. Why don't you try something more relevant.
”On the contrary, a strongly defended British territory indeed“
That's a laughable statement to make. Firstly what is wrong with defending your own territory? And secondly, until the mid 1960s there practically no UK defence of the Falklands, when Argentina raised the temperature they put a party of Royal Marines on the Islands. Never more than about 20 permanently stationed there. After ARGENTINA invaded in 1982 that deterrent was raised sufficiently to stop ARGENTINA trying a stunt like that again.
You obviously have not heard of Falkland Islands status. You can be British but that does not necessarily make you a Falkland Islander or give you a right to live in the Falkland Islands. British people who do not have that status have to go through exactly the same immigration requirements as any other national. I know you think all British passports are exactly the same, but they are not, and they don't all carry the same rights either.
”UK will not give them away.”
They are not the UKs to give away. The only people who can decide what happens to the Falklands are the Falkland Islanders
Oh well. Yea, exactly. You can't have what is not yours.
@149
Aug 30th, 2011 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hi J.A. please I'm just trying to debate peacefully. As I said sometime before I see this whole issue from an outsider (not UK, not Arg) point of view and I see a strong case in both sides, as I tried to point out in my last post. Sorry if I was too coloquial in some of my statements.
“They are free to take independence at any time. The UK will not stop them”.
Yes, but my point is that that argument is void, since “they” are british after all, (no matter what distinction on citizenship status you may referr to (and I understand your explanation on what F.I.status means, and I don't refute it)), and will never want to cease being so. Therefore, the possibility of becoming “independent” is, in fact, an “offer” that is obviously there IMHO to give some sort of moral authority to the UK.
“Firstly what is wrong with defending your own territory? ”
Exactly. So then you are with me in that the islands are nothing more than an overseas UK posession, not some self determined territory. This takes me to your last statement:
“They are not the UKs to give away”. They surely are, otherwise you wouldn't have defended it so fiercely.
“Raising the ”colonialism“ card is so lame”
It is, and I'm not trying to hold it against the UK looking at it from a 21st century point of view; that would be unfair (as M-of-FI points out in @144) and opportunist. That was the way back then, and if it was not the British then it would have been someone else. It's been like that throughout human history. After all, Argentina also grabbed the rest of the territory that belonged to the indians when it became independent. All I'm saying is that for the same token it's not valid for a falklands islander to say “stop trying to grab other people's land” when the UK did it before and benefitted from it plentifully (sp? please excuse my poor English).
Sorry for the long post.
150 lklein
Aug 30th, 2011 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0JA please Hello I'm trying to peaceful debate. As I said some time before we see this whole issue of a stranger (not of the United Kingdom, Arg) point of view and see a strong case on both sides, as I tried to point out in my last post. Sorry if I was too colloquial in some of my statements.
I commend him for his expression, so that you see is a very respectful man, no problem then, is quite clear in his ideas.
Against the sovereignty dispute exists, what solution proposes to settle the conflict and satisfy both sides?
Thank you very much for your attention.
@iklein, how does the Falkland Islander British citizenship limit their right to self determination? All the inhabitants of the old British Empire were British Subjects, yet many of this colonies gained independence and then instituted their own citizenship. The vast majority of those countries became independent after the UN Charter, which enshrined the right to self determination came into existence. Why should the Falklands be any different from Ghana for example?
Aug 30th, 2011 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you think the Islanders' right to independence is just there to give the UK moral authority then I suggest you read UN Resolutions 1514 and 1541.
Oh, and until the Falkland Islanders decide otherwise the UK government has a duty to defend those islands. Don't forget, they were not exactly defending the Falklands “fiercely” until ARGENTINA invaded. When that happened the UK was duty bound to protect the Falklands.
151
Aug 30th, 2011 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't believe there is a solution to settle the conflict and satisfy both sides.
Destiny tried and failed.
If you think there is - lets hear it.
“Therefore, the possibility of becoming “independent” is, in fact, an “offer” that is obviously there IMHO to give some sort of moral authority to the UK.”
Aug 30th, 2011 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, as i stated it's a right that they have. Many ex territorys have used this right and are now fully independant nations, You seem to act like it's not real and it something the UK has just made up to gain the moral high ground. Nations who have used this right and are now fully independant nations include:
South Yemen, Lesotho, Botswana, Somalia, Gambia, Ghana, Kenya, Nigeria, Zambia, Malawi, Sierra Leone, Zimbabwe, Swaziland, Tanganyika and Zanzibar, Uganda, Bahamas, Cyprus, Malta, Barbados, Antigua and Barbuda, St. Kitts and Nevis, Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago, Dominica, Grenada, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Belize, Mauritius, Seychelles, Singapore, Brunei Darussalam, Fiji, Kiribati, Tuvalu, Malaya, Vanuatu, Nauru, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Western Samoa, Guyana, Australia and Canada.
Why should the Falklands be different from Ghana, for example?
Aug 30th, 2011 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The principle of self-determination does not apply to the Question of the Falkland Islands.
The specificity of the Malvinas Islands Question lies in the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow his return, thus violating the territorial integrity of Argentina. Is ruled out then the possibility of applying the principle of self as its exercise by the inhabitants of the islands would cause the “breach of national unity and territorial integrity” of Argentina. In this regard it should be noted that resolution 1514 (XV) “Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples” in the sixth paragraph states that “Any attempt aimed at partial or total disruption of national unity and territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations. ”
In the Malvinas question the General Assembly of the United Nations included this doctrine - the principle of territorial integrity by referring to the interests and NOT the wishes of the population of the islands - in its resolution 2065 (XX), 1965 later confirmed by other resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37 / 9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 (39 / 6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41 / 40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute and reaffirm the invitation made in resolution 2065 (XX) Parties (Argentina and the UK) ”to proceed without delay with the negotiations recommended by the Ad Hoc Committee on the Situation with regarding the implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, to find a peaceful solution, having due regard to the provisions and objectives of the UN Charter and Resolution 1514 (XV), and the interests of the people of the Falkland Islands. ”
perhaps he thinks this is a fairground, and we are giving away teddy bears.
Aug 30th, 2011 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0or he has totaly misunderstood, like so many argentines,
“The principle of self-determination does not apply to the Question of the Falkland Islands.”
Aug 30th, 2011 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not correct. The UN has been quite clear in that Self Determination is paramount, just look at the latest ICJ judgements that have ruled for Self Determination over Territorial ingetrity.
Also.
1. The islanders were not removed.
2. An island you had control of for six, seven? Years can hardly be called an integral part of your nation(that had not even fully formed at the time).
At the end of the day, whether or not the UK broke Argentinas territorial integrity almost 200 years ago will not and will never overule the current human rights of the living, breathing people on those islands in this day and age.
“the principle of territorial integrity by referring to the interests and NOT the wishes of the population of the islands”
How can one claim to be in someones best intresst if the person in question wishes nothing to do with them?
sooner or later,
Aug 30th, 2011 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina will, one way or another have to make a decision,
1, go the the ICJ
2, or drop their claim
3, or back ip up
sooner or later,, you cannot live in the past for ever,[well some of us]
Rail, the sixth declaration of Resolution 1514 refers to trust and non self governing territories. Argentina is not a non self governing territory, so Resolution 1514 could not be referring to Argentina. The Falklands have never been Argentine territory by any reasonable definition so Argentine territory has not been disrupted anyway.
Aug 30th, 2011 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Every single one of the resolutions you mention refers to the right of self determination either directly or indirectly for ALL people. Show us the resolution which specifically limits that right in any circumstance, and particularly where a territorial claim is involved.
But if im right
Aug 30th, 2011 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falklands have never been Argentine territory but
some argentine terrotory used to be british,
so we have more of a claim again you,
than you do against us,
a pitty then the british goverment does not play you at your own game, and make a claim AGAINST argentina,
now wouldent that be the talk of the world, and perhaps shut argentina up.
Zeth 157
Aug 30th, 2011 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is not correct. The UN has been very clear that self-determination is most important, just look at the latest ICJ judgments have been rendered by the Territorial ingetrity self-determination.
Dear Zeth: Why do you think were the resolutions called for dialogue and negotiation. Just read the resolution 2065 (XX) of 1965 subsequently confirmed by other resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37 / 9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 (39 / 6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute
How can you pretend to be someones best intresst if the person wants nothing to do with them?
They have to understand the position Argentina, put in place.
Nobody is asking you to leave the islands. The British people can live on the islands, while respecting their culture and interests, but under the sovereignty Argentina without any problem, as the Welsh in Patagonia. The Welsh are fully integrated into society Argentina.
As Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi: There are no roads to peace, peace is the road. I think most people's English is deep in the same feeling. Peace, dialogue and nonviolence.
Thank you very much.
I ask the question when did Argentina have control over the Falkland Islands?
Aug 30th, 2011 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Under the authority of the Republic of Buenos Aires, Vernet established a settlement on East Falkland in 1828. Problem, Britain also gave permission at this time for Vernet to undertake this venture. Vernet had 2 masters.
In 1829, Vernet requested the support of a warship to enforce the claim conferred by the Republic of Buenos Aires. Problem, at the same time he also asked the British to set up a permanent garrison.
The Republic of Buenos Aires did not have the resources to provide a warship, instead they made a grand proclamation naming him Governor. Problem, this was immediately disputed by both British and American consulates who did not recognise Argentine jurisdiction.
In 1831, Vernet seized 3 American ships. Immediately the US responded with a raid by the USS Lexington. Vernet was unable to exercise any control over the islands.
I would at this juncture point out that the seeds of the sovereignty dispute are rather obvious and lie in the fact that Vernet somewhat duplicitously played the Republic and Britain off against each other, claiming to act for both.
In 1832, the appointment of Mestivier was announced - immediately disputed by the British consulate. After 4 days he was murdered by his own troops.
Argentine control over the islands lasted a grand total of 4 days.
You repeat a claim the settlement was expelled. This is untrue. The garrison was expelled, the settlement formed by Vernet was maintained and encouraged to continue.
In addition, the territorial integrity claim made by Argentina (and Spain) is based upon a false premise. The clause you quote is subordinate to the self-determination clause and is intended to prevent the break up of dependent territories by a colonial administration. It is not and never has been a limit to self-determination. Read the whole thing.
you talk a load of crap
Aug 30th, 2011 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and self loaded,
why should the Falklands except Argentina rule
WHY CANT ARGENTINA EXCEPT FALKLANDS RULE
you point exactly, but in reverse
what’s good for them must surely be good for you,
Lets turn that around shall we?
Aug 30th, 2011 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They have to understand the position Britain/p>, put in place.
Nobody is asking you to leave Argentina. The Argentine people can live in Argentina, while respecting their culture and interests, but under the sovereignty of Britain without any problem,
Understand now what a patronising git you sound?
Brilliant and I agree .
Aug 30th, 2011 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but they wont
and wont answer it
153 Be serious
Aug 30th, 2011 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do not think there is a solution to resolve the conflict and satisfy both parties.
Destination tried and failed.
If you think there is - lets hear it.
We must explore various situations while respecting the sovereignty, territorial integrity of both parties, no one is asking you to leave the islands.
- Shared sovereignty between the two nations.
- Commonwealth of Puerto Rico and the United States.
- Partition in half of the disputed territories.
- Sovereignty alternating every 4 years: A time for Argentina and another time to England is to simulate periods of governance.
When there is political will to solve problems appear likely solutions. Do not despair, just a matter of time.
I bet if you keep a line of trust is surprised by the range of solutions that may exist.
This conflict is not resolved with resentment and revanchism. Resolved to peace and dialogue considering both interests.
Thank you very much.
We must explore various situations while respecting the sovereignty, territorial integrity of both parties, no one is asking you to leave the islands
Aug 30th, 2011 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[[.no one is asking you to leave Argentina .]]
- Shared sovereignty between the two nations.
There is, Falklands and great Britain,
- Commonwealth of Puerto Rico and the United States
[what have they got to do with us]]
.
- Partition in half of the disputed territories.
[are you then going to give Patagonia to the Falklands in return .]
- Sovereignty alternating every 4 years: A time for Argentina and another time to England ]]
England, you mean great Britain,, again you get it wrong,
You mess it up for 4years,
Then we have to repair your mess and undo your indoctrination lessons.
The Falklands are British, and Argentina will tear its self apart if you keep this obsession up,
,
Raul,
Aug 30th, 2011 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Notice you didn't answer the obvious.
Tell me, when has Argentina been prepared to negotiate? Actually come to a compromise or recognise the rights of the Islanders.
Name a concession - just one.
They only reply to certain people,
Aug 30th, 2011 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Choosy, and answer only certain questions,
anything so they don’t get dragged into the truth,
but that’s ok,
doesn’t bother me in the least,
indoctrinated peoples don’t know the truth, or understand anything outside of what they have been taught,
in the classroom to the papers, nothing but anti British, anti Falklands,
and they want YOU to give concessions, lol.
@152
Aug 30th, 2011 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not saying that it limits anything, I'm just saying that the islanders being British, and having proved over and over they are very happy to be so, the whole issue of self determination is just nonsense. By the same token, if the islanders in 1833 hadn't been kicked out by the Royal Navy, you'd by now have a population very happy to be Argentinian and wanting to remain so.
That is why I think the F.I. conflict is difficult to solve Argentina's way, since even if one day for any reason the UK decided to give them away, Argentina would have to face ruling a territory inhabited by people that will from day 1 boicot that situation. Unbearable. Unless of course Argentinian Navy expelled them all from the F.I. just like the UK did more than a century ago, but then again, today thay obviously would not be tolerable. (I'm not being sarcastic here).
@154
Come on, you sound as if all of a sudden Britain decided to gracefully grant the right of self determination to all of their colonies, and one by one as they asked to exercise that precious gift from Her Majesty, where carefully kissed good bye from Britannia. Please. Let's be serious. Britain had no other option, period. No Empire has ever given up its posessions without a fight or just like that. The fact of all those ex-colonies becoming countries is not as a result of the generosity of Britain but the ending of an era and an unstopable and uncontrollable decolonisation wind that swept the world.
cheers.
Iklein,
Aug 30th, 2011 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Again there was no population expelled in 1833.
This is a lie, it is untrue and I wonder at both your alleged impartiality and reading comprehension.
And you're wrong about the British Empire. The British Empire was disassembled by choosing to grant independence to its former colonies without any wars of independence. This preceded the decolonisation agenda in the UN.
Learn some history before you preach.
perhaps that it why we are great,
Aug 30th, 2011 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0respected and admired, by most of the world,
always negative responce you guys have,
but forget the good things britain has done and given the world .
@171
Aug 30th, 2011 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My impartiality lies in that even if I see a case in Argentina reclaiming the Islands, I see that the UK (not the Islanders) has a case holding on to a territory they claim rightfully belongs to them (a matter of sovereignty). And if we talk about sovereignty and leave this issue of self determination aside, by reading history books (from both sides), I see a case in both sides depending on how you tell the story. However, I must admit your post mentioning Vernet's supposedly double game has surprised me as I had never read anything about it, but I'll investigate.
Again, if you think I'm not neutral I can't do much about it. I may not agree with you in some points, but doesn't necessarily mean I'm blind to your reasoning. I look at the whole issue from an outsider point of view, being very interested in all 20th century conflicts and, in the case of the F.I., having friends families having lived the actual conflict very closely on both sides.
JustinKuntz 168 (#) August 30, 2011 - 21:36 Report abuse
Aug 30th, 2011 - 11:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Raul
Note that the obvious answer.
Tell me, when Argentina was willing to negotiate? In fact, compromise or recognition of the rights of the islanders.
Name an award - only one.
168 justinKuntz
Dear JustinKuntz:
You should consider a problem of sovereignty, it also has a status problem, the islanders are not a country, not a nation.
The dispute is between two nations, you must abandon absolutist thinking.
In this context, Argentina can make concessions and to do conceciones equivalence England and Argentina role that context can they make concessions or recognition to the islanders who are English.
I answer without hatred or revenge, you did not answer the obvious, that is sovereignty. Please name some concessions, just one.
No need to answer with an attack.
Thank you very much.
And you avoided the question. Name any concesssion that Argentina has made?
Aug 30th, 2011 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina insists there is only one solution, which is transfer of sovereignty to Argentina - against the wishes of the people living there. You yourself have just asserted the islanders have no say, like they don't matter. And you expect us to believe that you respect them and there is no hate in your heart.
Name concessions Britain made?
Britain agreed to talk sovereignty and was prepared to transfer sovereignty to Argentina.
Name one Argentina has made?
Oh and again.
They have to understand the position Britain/p>, put in place.
Nobody is asking you to leave Argentina. The Argentine people can live in Argentina, while respecting their culture and interests, but under the sovereignty of Britain without any problem,
Understand now what a patronising git you sound?
You repeate platitudes about how the islanders will be respected but don't respect their right to self-determination
Turning your comments around shows them for the utter nonsense and pretentious rubbish that they are.
Rolly - after the recent ICJ judgment over Kosovo, 'terrtorial integrity' comes in a poor 2nd to 'self - determination'. Not that Argentina ever held any territory in the Falkland Islands.
Aug 30th, 2011 - 11:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The islanders not only have a right to determine their own futures, they have been exercising it most effectively since 1967. They are in control of their own destinies even today.
There is nothing that Argentina can do about it, because that UNQUALIFIED right remains in the Charter.
Argentina have attempted to subjugate the right to a supposed 'sovereignty dispute', but this has been rejected by the UN on each occassion. Even the C24 rejected the attempt.
Unqualified right !
No 'solution' is needed! There is no problem! The neighbours are irritating, but then aren't they always :-)
@166
Aug 31st, 2011 - 12:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Raul, it sounds good, but the problem is, conviction on both sides is very strong, (and note that I speak of BOTH sides (UK-ARG), not three, as the Falklanders I don't think are a different party than the UK), and there has been a military conflict not long ago, young men lost their lives, it's hard to come to terms when:
- there's been blood shed
- there are strong economic reasons for the UK to hold on to those islands.
- the actual population of the islands don't push from inside for a change
Now having said that, my particular view of the situation is that it is in a dead end.
- Uk will never agree to a transfer of sovereignty based on the fact that the islanders don't want any occupying power other than the Uk
- Uk can enforce their posession
- No one else wants to mediate or influence on either side.
Result: Argentina will try and try but to no avail.
The only thing left is for people like us here on blogs like this discuss about the reasons on either side to claim the islands. And again, my point of view here is that neither side has all the truth on their side to win an objective and dispassionate discussion on the matter. A lot has happened since the 16th century and even before Argentina ever existed.
To think that Argentina has one of the biggest british descendant population outside of the commonwealth... sometimes I wonder how an anglo-argentine would feel about all this. Anyone here?
The Falkland islanders are a Third Party and recognised as such under international law which is why they are listed as a colony on the C24's list !
Aug 31st, 2011 - 03:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0You may wish it otherwise, but that is a fact!
166
Aug 31st, 2011 - 07:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0All big steps for UK and Falkland Islanders to accommodate a foreign power that we neither like nor respect.
And yet still Argentina not even prepared to take a few small steps.
Argentina had a choice but under Kirchner it chose unwisely and followed a path of coercion, aggression and blockade. You are asking that we trust what amounts to a small time bully - no chance.
A more mature less emotional Argentine leader would have engaged with the Islanders to establish a climate of cooperation and mutual respect.
That didn't happen and we are where we are.
“I'm not saying that it limits anything, I'm just saying that the islanders being British, and having proved over and over they are very happy to be so, the whole issue of self determination is just nonsense.”
Aug 31st, 2011 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0A bit of a contradiction. First being British does not limit their self determination, then it makes self determination nonsense. All in the same sentence. You need to up your game. Oh, and by the way, the Falkland Islanders have had British passports only since 1983. Their right to self determination stretches back to 1945 when the UN Charter was signed and ratified by both the UK and Argentina.
“By the same token, if the islanders in 1833 hadn't been kicked out by the Royal Navy, you'd by now have a population very happy to be Argentinian and wanting to remain so.”
You are incorrect. Many of the current Falkland Islanders can trace their ancestry back to the civilians there in 1832/1833, and no they are not happy to be Argentine.
“if we talk about sovereignty and leave this issue of self determination aside”
Yes, and sovereignty rests ultimately with the Falkland Islanders by virtue of their right to self determination. You can't get around that fact.
“Unless of course Argentinian Navy expelled them all from the F.I. just like the UK did more than a century ago”
The only people expelled in January of 1833 was the Bs As garrison, and two civilians who freely chose to leave. All the rest of the civilians remained. This is a matter of recorded fact. As I mentioned there are current Islanders who descend from those civilians.
“Come on, you sound as if all of a sudden Britain decided to gracefully grant the right of self determination to all of their colonies”
Yes it did, because as you rightly state after signing the UN Charter it had not option. And you are wrong that UK did not give it up without a fight. The transfer of power in the vast majority of cases was orderly and by mutual agreement.
@180
Aug 31st, 2011 - 09:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Yes, and sovereignty rests ultimately with the Falkland Islanders by virtue of their right to self determination”
I think not, but then again, I may be wrong. My opinion is that sovereignty over those islands rests ultimately with the UK/Arg by virtue of their right to keep/claim a territory each consider theirs based on a number of arguments (historical, geographical, etc) that support their case.
“The transfer of power in the vast majority of cases was orderly and by mutual agreement.”
Yes, I don't dispute that. My statement was a general one, no empire had ever given up their posessions just like that, but either 1.under pressure or 2.losing an independence war against their former colony. In the case of Britain, as you rightly point out and I agree, it was (mostly) #2, a matter of orderly letting go before things got nasty all over the world for them, becoming a situation absolutely unbearable and difficult to put up to. But if that was not the case, Britain would happily still be owning half the world islands if allowed.
“The only people expelled in January of 1833 was the Bs As garrison, and two civilians who freely chose to leave”
Ok, maybe I had this data wrong. If it is as you say then I back up. Somehow I thought almost everyone were expelled.
In any case, the only thing Britain needed was to get the argentinian governor and their military personnel out. Having done that, it was just a matter of time before the whole picture changed. Those same ancestors you mention, if there hadn't been a change of flag over the Falklands, would have eventually evolved into a differente allegiance, don't you think?.
You are wrong! The power of self determination vests in the Falkland Islanders. Both the UK and Argentina are irrelevant to that right.
Aug 31st, 2011 - 09:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UK has responsibilities under Article 73 of the UN Charter. The UK is meeting those responsibilities.
Argentina has responsiblilities under Article 74 of the UN Charter. Argentina is NOT meeting those responsibilities.
Argentina did NOT inherit anything from Spain under the political tenet of Uti possidetis juris.
There was no Argentine population expelled in 1833 other than the murdering, mutinous garrison.
The Falkland Islands are british but ONLY because the islanders' wish it so.
Full stop !
Amen !!!
:-)
“The power of self determination vests in the Falkland Islanders. Both the UK and Argentina are irrelevant to that right.”
Aug 31st, 2011 - 09:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Of course , but that is not what I'm arguing.
I say the matter of self determination is really out of the equation altogether. My opinion is that it is all a matter of sovereignty between two nations (UK and AR) over the F.I., and that sovereignty should not be linked to the so called self determination right of the islanders.
The opposite is true.
Aug 31st, 2011 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0The ONLY issue is self determination.
Sovereignty arguments have been over ridden by the UN Charter !
@183lklein,
Aug 31st, 2011 - 11:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0We do not care what your opinion is about self-determination.
lf you're not a Falkland lslander then this has got nothing to do with you.
We are not Argentines & DO NOT want to be part of Argentina.
This is OUR land & there is NOTHING to negotiate.
There will be no discussions about OUR sovereignty & no concessions or compromises.
l can't make it any clearer than that.
“My opinion is that sovereignty over those islands rests ultimately with the UK/Arg etc.”
Aug 31st, 2011 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well you'll have to justify that opinion and in the light of UN Resolutions 1514 and 1541 I think you will fail. Perhaps you should read those resolutions. And all the while not forgetting that the Falklands were accepted by the UN onto the list of Non Self Governing territories, a very specific and defined legal situation for a territory. The Falklands are not for the UK to give away any more than they are Argentine territory.
http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/152/88/IMG/NR015288.pdf?OpenElement
http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/152/88/IMG/NR015288.pdf?OpenElement
I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make about the end of the British Empire. The fact is the UK recognised the injustice of imperialism and made a positive decision to end the Empire and give those colonised territories independence if they so wished. Every territory which has asked for independence has been granted it. A number of those territories have freely decided to retain the link. The Falklands being one of them. The only people who can make that decision are the Falkland Islanders, until they decide otherwise the UK has a number of obligations to the Falkland Islanders under international law, which includes their protection and economic development.
“In any case, the only thing Britain needed was to get the argentinian governor and their military personnel out.”
Well, for a start it was a Buenos Aires garrison, and Buenos Aires at that time was not part of the United Provinces (which then became Argentina). The presence of the garrison was protested by the British minister at Buenos Aires and when it did not leave a warship was sent to encourage it. The Bs As garrison left without a shot being fired.
As for what allegiance might or might not have evolved is pure speculation and makes no difference to anything.
Iklein, I am a 7th generation Islander. My family has been in the Falkland Islands from almost the very beginning (mid 19th Century). The views of the Falkland Islanders are absolutely paramount, we are the ones who have been living here, we are the ones that will continue to live here, so our rights are the most important thing. Not one Argentine on this forum has said they would move to the Falklands if Argentina successfully colonised the islands, and I doubt if any would. In Argentine eyes, it is about land, they do not respect the people, and evidence of this is their current policy of blockading the Falklands, their invasion 30 years ago and if you look at the comments from Argentines on this forum regarding the people of the Falklands (calling them pirates, squatters, telling us to move to London, we dont have human rights etc) they clearly dont respect the islanders or their wishes.
Aug 31st, 2011 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0“I say the matter of self determination is really out of the equation altogether. My opinion is that it is all a matter of sovereignty between two nations...”
Aug 31st, 2011 - 11:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0On the contrary. Argentina and the UK have both ratified the UN Charter, they have also both ratified the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. All three of these agreements have self determination at their heart, and a key principle. Self determination can not be limited under any circumstances, especially not by a territorial claim or dispute. This fact has been backed up by the ICJ in a number of cases where it has ruled in favour of self determination, Western Sahara, East Timor, Kosovo just to name a few. Self determination trumps territorial claims and disputes.
BTW the Argentine Governor was not expelled, having gone the way of the Norwegain Blue some months before the arrival of HMS Clio.
Aug 31st, 2011 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you M_of_FI and J.A. for sharing your views with me on the matter. Certainly I have now a better understanding on what the Islander position is. As for me, I first approached this matter purely out of my interest in all military conflicts in 20th century, but over time I've tried to go deeper in the actual causes, political and geopolitical positions, etc. and indeed it's fascinating. I hope radical positions on both sides don't introduce too much noise in what I think is a very interesting blog and the opinions I read are most of the time very well documented.
Aug 31st, 2011 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@lklein
Aug 31st, 2011 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is worth a read if you would like to understand the FI position:
http://www.falklandshistory.org/gettingitright.pdf
Oh, and cue Argie posters dismissing it out of hand, resorting to ad hominem attacks on the authors etc, as they have nothing concrete to offer in rebuttal.
do you know how many times you can fit the falklands into argentina,
Aug 31st, 2011 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0why do you require these islands, when you are so big, masses of empty land, would it not serve you well to say,
you will withdraw your claim, and let them live in peace ,
and make an effort to get on with them,
worth a thought .
You could even try this - http://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/
Aug 31st, 2011 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:-)
Good Morning!
Aug 31st, 2011 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you guys still fighting for Malvinas ?? :-)) x 3 !!
No, Artillero. Defending the Falklands from idiot Argie Malvinistas...
Aug 31st, 2011 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Malvinas is a National sentiment, cause, whatever you want to to call it. Not because we believe in something makes us idiots. I disagree with Governments using the “cause” for political reasons. How far are we willing to go with this? In '82 we lost 600 lives, who is willing to loose 6000 if necessary “defending the cause” ......Is that the way to go? Probably not. The “all or nothing” doesn't work anymore. The 21st century way of doing things are commerce, trade, mutual cooperation, business and personal relationships , etc, etc Just a thought.
Aug 31st, 2011 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0177 lklein
Aug 31st, 2011 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All that remains is for people like us here in blogs like this to talk about the reasons on both sides to claim the islands. And again, my view is that neither side has all the truth on their side to gain an objective and dispassionate discussion on the topic
Thank you very much for your comments really are of a height and altruism that are rare in the participants in this blog, and even allows me to myself, to reconsider my views.
First I agree with you that neither party has the absolute truth on their side. Unfortunately, the participants in this forum who favor English, are highly intolerant of views contrary to their ideas, in the least, as the former vice chancellor said Andres Cisneros, “Everything is sound and fury” is more, do not have the slightest criticism of their actions, will realize that they are pure adjectives, taunts and insults and no dialogue and argument, they profess a fierce hatred of all that is Latin American and Argentine and not representative of the British pubic opinion, expressing ignorance of the theme and is open to possible solutions. As the world public opinion is internalized more than Falklands conflict, many countries are sympathetic to the claim of sovereignty. And even within the UK believe it is possible to reach an agreement acceptable to both parties. However, in this blog there is a minority that accepts English dialogue but their participation is sporadic, low and hidden by the editor, which is Mercopress, an agency of British interests.
Lklein: Your participation is very important to recreate an atmosphere of tolerance and respect for different views providing solutions that satisfy both parties. As I said Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi: There are no roads to peace, peace is the road. I think most people's English is deep in the same feeling. Peace, dialogue and nonviolence.
It's what you're doing. I let my E-Mail: face1354@hotmail.com
Thank you very much.
More crap
Aug 31st, 2011 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your views are false as your truth,
Try reading your own blog, almost putting the whole blame on us,
We are in the wrong
We don’t listen-we are offensive, we are anti Latin American,
Adjectives, taunts and insults and no dialogue and argument
Expressing ignorance , you are what you are, and you are indoctrinated,,
And I don’t need to insult to define that word, its actually inserted in your very own schools, the only insulting one here, is you,
But of course we could be totally misinterpreting you all along,
But I doubt it, if you wish to be positive, then it matters not if you are British -argentine-or an islander, only the right to rule ones self,
if you believe that the Falklands people have a basic right to rule them selves, then all your arguments are now invalid--on the other hand, if you do not believe they have a right to rule themselves, then that make you a dictator, either way, legally you cannot win, now or ever ,,,,but illegally , you feel you can do what whatever you want, [as you normally do]
if the people of those islands wish to remain British, that is the end of any discussions,,, if you do not believe in that--then what does this make you,??
Argentina fought for her right to rule herself, and everybody respects that right,
Are you then denying that same right to the islanders, without bringing up all that rubbish of 1833 and after,, leave them alone .
Raul,
Aug 31st, 2011 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're full of BS.
No we don't hate Argentina or Latin America or any of that. Easy way to dismiss comments you find that contradict your beliefs.
he keeps refering to [English]
Aug 31st, 2011 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0its british, great britain,
197 Raul
Aug 31st, 2011 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who professes a ''fierce hatred of all that is Latin American''? Not me and not any other Falkland Islander. You're making it up.
There is nothing we woud like better than normal friendly relations with all of South America.
But not at the cost of our freedom.
He does it all the time. Asks a question then if he doesn't like the answer accuses you of hating or being resentful.
Aug 31st, 2011 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In another thread he asked if the UK takes ICJ judgements as law, i replied with yes. Then i get accused of being resentful and wanting some form of revenge.
Starting to think he's a nutcase.
Morning all - I would just like to say that the majority of countries in the world support the UN Charter .... after all, they signed it !
Sep 01st, 2011 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is worth asking the Argentines how they acquired the Country they now live in. Are they decendants of the indiginous people that lived there before them of course their not they took that land by force History has documented it. So is it any wonder they want to take the Falkland Islands. They have no respect for democracy and certainly do not even have any respect for their fellow countrymen and women.
Sep 01st, 2011 - 01:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0My Folks passed down to me from their folk before them that all the Argentines want from the land of the Falklands is what we have around and beneath us. They also said DO NOT give anything that rightfully belongs to our people.
They also said NEVER trust an Argentine as they never keep their word , how true that has been 1982 happened because we began to trust them. Look what happened. Saddly we know all to well what they did to their own people so why should we ever believe them or trust them again.
How I wish we could tow our Islands a thousand miles further North but then I guess they would still insist on harrasing us.
I also believe that heaven forbid should these island sucumb to their bullying they would not stop there but start on another unsuspecting country probably Chile or Uraguy.
kelperabout - I appreciate your sentiments but times are changing and britain is no longer an empire and the falklands are rapidly becoming an embarassment to the british in the face of growing international condemnation. There is of course the most profound fact that britain will soon no longer be able to defend the islands.
Sep 01st, 2011 - 01:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/foreign-policy/7893-bamas-falklands-policy-a-break-from-the-founders
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/foreign-policy/7893-bamas-falklands-policy-a-break-from-the-founders
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/foreign-policy/7893-bamas-falklands-policy-a-break-from-the-founders
fantazum2011
Sep 01st, 2011 - 01:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0You amaze me . Argentina is the one who is the international embarrassment picking on us. Do not underestimate the British capability to defend us. Remember 1982 Argentina was supposed to be in complete control of our land had already controlled all the high ground yet Britain managed to sail 8,000 miles and kick you out.
Britain has still got a formidable fighting force but of course they really do not need such a force because the troops already stationed here are far better established than your lot was in 82.
But to ask a differant question to you personally. What does Argentina really want our Islands for. In all the arguments we have ever had not once has a single Argentine actually stated what they do want only that some piece of so called ancient history which is invalid due to the time a British sailor discovered these lands nearly three hundred years before Argentina existed. Remember that also the French eligally handed what they claimed was theres to Spain and as history also shows is the actual reason your lot are still belly aching about it.
Is that not the real facts - fantazum2011
you want a simple answer?
Sep 01st, 2011 - 02:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Resources.
The Falklands issue is not being driven by nationalism anymore.
We want the resources.
Simple.
The crisis will come if you discover oil in exploitable quantities.
At last someone who agrees with what we have been saying for almost a hundred years. So here is the simple salution to this problem. Argentina drops her claim to our country and we form a working partnership in the oil industry. Personally I could not care who has the oil because from what I see around the world it causes more grief than happiness.
Sep 01st, 2011 - 03:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0The chances of you or I benifiting from any oil discoveries is pretty slim because I suspect you are just like me a common citizen.
However your statement confirms what my parents told me that for the last 100 years the dispute over our homeland is not one of national pride but indeed for the wealth arround us that is something we have always believed to be the case and you now confirm that to be so.
Would it not be better to become trusted friends rather than continuing the act of dictators. All that tends to do is harden ones defences and no one wins at all.
Like I said I could not care if oil was found or not. I personally won't get anything out of it except the grief that it will bring. Is this really what the Argentines want. I say make peace not war that way we can all be happy and coexist. What do you think?
we the common citizens and indeed our governments do not have the power to make that decision anymore since we allowed the multinationals to acquire so much economic power to the point where government is subservient to their interests.
Sep 01st, 2011 - 05:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0What was once an issue driven by nationalist sentiment and political opportunism is now a simple question of what the hedge funds and private equity want to do. Will they apply their considerable leverage to the members of the UN general assembly to put their weight behind argentina's claim or will they push for a bilateral agreement between the Uk and argentina with the Islanders in the middle?
Big money will decide the issue but only when the fruit is ripe enough to be picked from the tree.
The private hedge funds are irrelevant. What is a Government but a BLOODY BIG HEDGE FUND !
Sep 01st, 2011 - 07:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Child, there is nothing Argentina can do. The Islanders are protected. They are British .... by choice !
@210
Sep 01st, 2011 - 08:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The Islanders are protected. They are British .... by choice !”
Excuse me if I insist, but if that is the case, then wouldn't that imply that the issue must be solved between AR and the UK, (since the Islanders strength is based on the fact that the UK protects them, as you clearly state), rendering the position of the Islanders to a mere excuse for the UK to keep the Islands?.
Islanders: “we want to remain British”
UK: “we keep the Islands because the Islanders want us to”
It's a very well oiled system, no flaws. Except for the fact that, as I gather as a synthesis from the AR position, that the sovereignty over the Islands is theirs.
Please avoid any “lklein, you haven't understood anything” type of statement. Peaceful debate please. I understand Islander position, I'm just trying to see it both ways.
“I gather as a synthesis from the AR position, that the sovereignty over the Islands is theirs”
Sep 01st, 2011 - 09:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well, for a start the Falklands were never Argentine, and never have been and Argentina has consistently failed to prove otherwise. Just saying that they are yours does not necessarily make it so.
The Islanders retain British sovereignty by choice is probably more accurate. The minute they decide to chance that situation, those Islanders who have no connection with the UK, ie, not born there or parents who were born there will have to exchange their British passports for whatever citizenship comes next. That is how it has happened in every other UK territory which has been let go.
It's not a “mere excuse”. As repeated before above, the UK has an obligation under international law to protect the Falklands, to allow them to develop their economy, to allow them to advance towards independence or whichever arrangement THEY choose. Did you not read Resolution 1541 as I suggested. A free association is one of the possible outcomes to decolonisation. The Falklands have achieved that by THEIR OWN admission. Yet Argentina and her allies continue to block efforts to remove the Falklands from the list of non self governing territories. In spite of the fact that Argentina is obliged as much as the UK to uphold the Falkland Islanders' rights. Argentina ratified the UN Charter afterall.
The only thing which can unlock this problem is for Argentina to drop their claim. It is in contravention of international law. Nothing will happen until Argentina does the right thing.
Iklein, you haven't understood anything.
Sep 01st, 2011 - 09:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Goodbye.
@203kelperabout,
Sep 01st, 2011 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Share the oil with them? They had their chance & tore up the agreement because they didn't want to share. They wanted all of it.
We could, of course come to some business arrangement re oil,with them if they dropped their ridiculous claims & publicly apologised for ALL their unfriendly acts.
Can't see it happening though.
@213 Be Serious,
l agree, he/she hasn't understood a thing. Think he is an Argentine fellow traveller.
@213
Sep 01st, 2011 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0how predictable.
@214
I don't understand -due to my poor English I guess- what you mean by “Argentine fellow traveller” . In any case, I think I would have to repeat for the nth time that I don't particularly have any interest whatsoever in either side to “win” (if “winning” would actually be relevant/applicable here). I said some time in the past that I'm french, having, how funny, relatives and friends in the UK and AR. In any case, if what you want is a one-colour-type of blog, in which everyone must agree with you or else is an idiot, well, ok, I guess that defines itself. Thank God I've come across other participants who do not behave like that. As I said, I'm trying to understand the reasons in both sides, but certainly with the likes of you it is difficult to separate the opinion from just plain despise of that of others. Have a nice day.
@203, @214
regarding the resources issue. Bear in mind that Argentina had another issue with Chile regarding a few tiny -not even- islands (just a few rocks off the south coast of Tierra del Fuego) (Lennox, etc). For Argentina I reckon this is all really a matter of national pride, and however passionate or radical that may sound nowadays, I guess it doesn't help when trying to get down to practical and down-to-earth solutions between both parties. In any case however important component on AR side's stand that might be, referring the F.I. there's obvious an interest on the resources, correct me if I'm wrong, fishing and oil (apart from geopolitical reasons due to the actual situation of the islands, similar to that of Gibraltar, IMHO). Having gotten to that point, and linking to my previous post in which I say I see this whole matter in a dead-end (meaning, I don't see any change in the foreseeable future), I honestly think the most intelligent thing for AR would be to try to come to an agreement (trade, etc.) leaving sovereignty claim aside (in a stand by maybe?).
Iklein,
Sep 01st, 2011 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0You state above “rendering the position of the Islanders to a mere excuse for the UK to keep the Islands?.”
The premise of that remark is flawed for a number of reasons.
First of all the British do not wish to retain the islands. In point of fact, the FCO would be very happy to transfer sovereignty to Argentina to smooth relations over between the two countries. To further clarify this point, this does not stem from any doubts over sovereignty but a rather cynical calculation over trade with South America. This is why the FCO is viewed almost in the same light as the Argentine Government in the Falklands.
Secondly, the publicly declared British position is to provide independence to any BOT upon request. Were the FIG to request independence, the British Government is obliged to facilitate it.
Thirdly, there is no net benefit to the UK of retaining the Falklands. Any oil revenue will accrue to the Falkland Islands Government/Falklanders.
You also state the matter is one of National Pride for Argentina, indeed you are correct in that assessment. But there is more to it than that. It was a dead issue till the 1930s, it was revived for political purposes, with the Argentine education system used to indoctrinate the population. I would recommend (written by an Argentine) http://www.argentina-rree.com/documentos/culture_escude.htm for further information.
Any discussion must take place between the Falkland Islanders and Argentina - there are now no longer any other parties !
Sep 01st, 2011 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Falkland islanders' are in charge of their own future. Argentina's failure to recognise that, reduces Argentina's position to one of irrelevance !
The Islanders' are exercising their right to self determination. That is as it should be !
Resources
Sep 01st, 2011 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2111.html
Natural resources
Argentina==fertile plains of the pampas, lead, zinc, tin, copper, iron ore, manganese, petroleum, uranium [ oil]
Brazil,= bauxite, gold, iron ore, manganese, nickel, phosphates, platinum, tin, rare earth elements, uranium, petroleum, hydropower, timber
Falklands =fish, squid, wildlife, calcified seaweed, sphagnum moss [plus future oil]]
Antarctica =iron ore, chromium, copper, gold, nickel, platinum and other minerals, and coal and hydrocarbons have been found in small uncommercial quantities; none presently exploited; krill, finfish, and crab have been taken by commercial fisheries
Atlantic, ocean =oil and gas fields, fish, marine mammals (seals and whales), sand and gravel aggregates, placer deposits, polymetallic nodules, precious stones
///////////////////////////////////////
Resources
just a thought of what argentine goverment [wants] and could have,
if not by talking, then other means would be found to obtain what she cant have .
”I honestly think the most intelligent thing for AR would be to try to come to an agreement (trade, etc.) leaving sovereignty claim aside (in a stand by maybe?).“
Sep 01st, 2011 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's exactly what did happen. In 1989 Argentina and the UK agreed to a ”sovereignty umbrella“, so mutually beneficial agreements in other spheres could be arrived at while protecting their positions on sovereignty. Under the ”umbrella” a join Fisheries Commission was instituted to manage stocks in the South Atlantic. There were later agreements covering fisheries, nomenclature, mine clearance and importantly hydrocarbons. The current round of exploratory drilling was agreed with Argentina.
But then... Argentina withdrew, unilaterally, from all these agreements.
Good Morning you all !! Malvinas still British? Nothing change then ... Have a nice day everyone ! :-))
Sep 01st, 2011 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0like a baby throwing her toys out of the pram,
Sep 01st, 2011 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0untill mummy finds a new toy [oil]
then the babies ears will prick up,
@219
Sep 01st, 2011 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“But then... Argentina withdrew, unilaterally, from all these agreements.....” when did that happen? under whose Presidency?
@219
Sep 01st, 2011 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's right. I remember now. I think it was President Menem who actually travelled to the UK and all to ratify the pact. It was what appeared to be a more pragmatic approach from the AR Gov't. He had a lot of internal contestation because of this anyway. I guess they eventually prevailed.
@lklein so as you can see from an Argentine perspective the policy will change depending on the political party in charge because, afterall, for Argentina the Falklands claim is a nationalistic and political matter - mainly for internal consumption. The British perspective has not changed in decades, certainly not since the UN Charter, no matter what party is in power. It's a matter of international law for the UK and nothing else.
Sep 01st, 2011 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still waiting for an ARgie to tell us how they colonised their Country. Do they have any people living their who are direct decendants of the indigenous people they so ruthlessy killed.
Sep 01st, 2011 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We on the other han did not kill an idigenous people to settle here it was a bare piece of rock . Yes both Britain and France virtually started inhabitating the place about the same time but Britain is documented as bieng the first to discover the islands in 1592 and in those days if Argentina wants to uhold history as fact will find that anyone who discovered new land could rightfully lay claim to it so long as no one else had previously lived there. How does that hold with the Argentine occupation of the land they currently state as their homeland. Falkland Islanders no matter where they originated from which happens to include Argentine citizens about 160 years ago also now state this is their homeland so why the fuss. Yes this little piece of windswept rock as so many say it is could one day be a global leader through the yet to be discovered commercial fields we are looking for.
Just Remember Argentina North America is also running short of oil and the real chances are that as they are the most powerful they would likely intervene and take the lot for themselves. Why they trid to do that in Irak and a few other places.
225 kelperabout---- Ye Gods the Argys will never admit to killing all those indigenous people they think its their God given right to live there and that God put that part of the world there for them. The small fact that they murdered their way to the Fatherland escapes them, in fact isn't it about time they blamed the British or as they like to call everyone in the Uk English for killing all the indigenous people as you know they do like to distort facts.
Sep 01st, 2011 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps Argentina pushing the world against the British,
Sep 01st, 2011 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May very well backfire on her,
Inviting china-Russia -India-And of course [already]
The united states of America, she has thus already opened her own door to her own future, like ive said before, her indoctrinated possessed,
Greedy obsession with the Falklands, will tear her country apart,
And she will never see it coming, till its to late,
Another new Ming dynasty perhaps, or curry for the masses,
Vodka for the dispossessed, or just plain hamburgers,
But at least her and her blind followers can all sit together and sing,
WE, Did IT OUR WAY ????
Just a thought .
223 lklein
Sep 01st, 2011 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0True, in 1989 Argentina and the United Kingdom agreed on a “sovereignty umbrella”
The question is why he retired:
The agreement remains in force but England violated the agreement, or alter the status quo. In addition, there is a difference between what is allegedly violating a pledge not to add new elements to a dispute through the modification of its own Constitution, a sovereign act purely verbal in nature, and assert that all the oil drilling in an area disputed sovereignty.
That's what I would call an “act unilaterally” - a condemnation that materially violates the mandate of the United Nations not to alter the status quo. In 2005 alone, our country presented 15 letters of protest to denounce the British unilateral acts.
Furthermore in September 2007 the British newspaper The Guardian published the British claim to extend its dominance around the Falkland Islands 350 miles around the archipelago, 150 miles more than the current unilateral exclusion zone.
All this without mentioning that the European Constitution signed in Rome established in an annex, that both the Falklands and the Antarctic territory claimed by the United Kingdom and France are among the “countries and territories” of the Union Europe, includes as its predecessor parts of our national soil in the list of countries and territories to which the regime of “Association of Overseas Countries and Territories” 'European law extending up to these latitudes. On both occasions, the Foreign Ministry rejected the inclusion of the islands made by Britain and reiterated our “inalienable and irrevocable” sovereignty over those territories. Thank you very much
England violated nothing
Sep 01st, 2011 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0England signed nothing,
and the teritories are British, not european,
“Except for the fact that, as I gather as a synthesis from the AR position, that the sovereignty over the Islands is theirs.”
Sep 01st, 2011 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Explain how, exactly. I would like your opinion.
And to add, your views on the other islands they claim.
Sep 01st, 2011 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So what have they claimed so-far,
Sep 01st, 2011 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Antarctica
south georgia
sandwich islands
south Atlantic
falklands
chile
now add all them together with assiciated teritories and the new argentina would make more than 1/3 of the planet,
hey
why not go the whole hog
[] - 210
Sep 01st, 2011 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0..., there is nothing Argentina can do ....
this is not British english statement style !!
are there any British commentators here ..doubt !
if anyone who write this expression in British english..
we'll be glad to hear it !
Also, going back to this.
Sep 01st, 2011 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“No Empire has ever given up its posessions without a fight or just like that.”
Erm, well yes. The British empire did with the majority of it's territorys.
“ending of an era and an unstopable and uncontrollable decolonisation wind that swept the world.”
Yes, i agree. I didn't say that it wasn't the ending of that era. I stated that the UK granted the independance of the majority of it's territorys, and that's a fact.
Unless you can point to some links showing the various wars of independance from all of the 30 or so names i provided.
They asked for independance and it was given to them. If the falklanders asked for independance tomorrow, it would be given to them.
Could you say the same about Argentina? I doubt it.
Roberts 224
Sep 01st, 2011 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dear Roberts
Because “Chicano” or you throw bad LKLEIN waves. He is trying to investigate “their way” the true parent of the conflict and you put your wheel sticks. I know you too well not to know your intentions. Take for granted things or events that are not. There are many things you do not know Argentinas and prospects for the high false, crooked and tranguiversas.
Perhaps sos Argentino for how we think we want, we crave, the last thing you need is to tell me you have an ID Argentino.
We need to teach, have a masters and teach us how we should think the Argentinians and teach our history.
You have many prejudices, or perhaps you personally Argentinos have done some evil and take it personally and we have not heard.
Excuse me, but I've never seen that.
With all due respect.
233 geo
Sep 01st, 2011 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0are there any British commentators here ..doubt !
GEO, allow me,
Most of us are British, here, unless you are not,
,,,,,,,,,,,,
Raul
[your words]We need to, have a masters and teach us how we should think the Argentinians and teach our history
[][ and you say you are not indoctrinated,
Cannot argie think and read for them selves,,
Obviously not .
“The agreement remains in force but England violated the agreement, or alter the status quo.”
Sep 01st, 2011 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Raul, I think you mean the United Kingdom. England was not involved. And it was Nestor Kirchner who withdrew from the agreements. And not because of any violation on the UK's part or change to the status quo. That is simply nonsense. Kirchner withdrew for his own political reasons.
236 briton
Sep 01st, 2011 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is an incorrect translation.
What is meant is that it is a paradox, which teaches us how to think, when we think for ourselves and we have a tradition and a cultural and political identity.
[] - 236 brit
Sep 01st, 2011 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0i haven't heard the “” Raul “” as British name !
these comments are all merely gossip not serious notice !
United kingdom
Sep 01st, 2011 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Great britan
Wales
Ireland
Scotland
England.
Or
W.I.S.E for short,
Very wise
.
228 Raul
Sep 01st, 2011 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When did we pledge never to 'alter the status quo'? How can any community exist without ever changing anything? Just because a third party decides to claim our country. Seems crazy to me.
And where did the UN mandate this?
I strongly suspect you of making things up again.
239 geo ,, no offence mate
Sep 01st, 2011 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but can you explain what you mean,
are you saying that [raul] is british, or not british,
just a bit confused,
thanks
Nothing Argentina can do !
Sep 01st, 2011 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can't get much more British than me mate ... got Union Jacks on me wellies :-)
I see Rolly coming out with that old guff about it being OK for Argentina to put the Falkland Isands into their Constitution but not OK for the EU to recognise what it had since Britain joined!
But right about one thing .. the sovereignty umbrella is still in place. How else can you explain why nothing gets passed the Fourth Committee ?
Beef
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 12:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Libya:“ the minister, the Tory donor and a contract to supply oil”
A Brit said
'So £300 million of taxpayer's money has been spent to fight a “war” so that some Tories and their mates can trouser fat profits ?”
These are the same people trying to convince the World why is Malvinas part of UK, not wonder they are failing miserably.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8736496/Libya-the-minister-the-Tory-donor-and-a-contract-to-supply-oil.html
MoreCrap - the world doesn't need yo be convinced! It knows the Falkland Islands are British :-)
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 01:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Of course, you don't have corruption in Argentina :-)
http://transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results
245 Rotted,
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 02:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't see Argentina going to war every fews years under the pretext of “weapons of mass destruction” or to save 'innocent lives'.
Just read some of the British comments below that article.
“Well I don't know what to say, did we really go to war to benefit an oil trader, a politician and the Conservative party and not to save 'innocent lives'. I give up the whole stinking system is corrupt, my attitude has just changed, good luck to working and middle class's who riot, rob, steal and fiddle because those above us are rotten to the core, disgraceful totally disgraceful”
Who cares! Nothing to do with the Falkland Islands !
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 03:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0And any fool can search out comments by another fool !
The Pirates have raised the skull n cross bones n ousted the evil ghadaffi. Now the pillaging can begin and equal shares of the booty all round. This exhibition of piracy by NATO and its on land bandits has nothing to do with the war on terror. It is blatant theft like Malvinas.
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 03:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Can't steal what you already own MoreCrap ... !
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 03:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Something I missed a couple of weeks back - http://spectator.org/archives/2011/08/16/argentinas-illegal-antics#
Something I missed a couple of days back-
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 04:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Remember that Mercopress article about the deep sea port?
”There was a Mercopress article a couple of days ago which several people have mentioned to me and it was regarding the port and our expected imminent expenditure (£50 to 60 Million) on that port. I would like to point out that we all accept that at some time in the future a new port will be a necessity. Various areas have been identified for that port but I can assure everyone that no decisions yet have been taken as to where it will be or the cost of it will be. So that Mercopress article, for those listening, was a little early”
Mr Roger Edwards MLA
Hahahaha, not even their funded newspaper can't get it right.
http://www.falklandnews.com/public/story.cfm?get=6064&source=3
Do you have a problem with reading comprehension MoreCrap - no-one said it was going to happen immediatey. The subject is still in the consideration phase :-)
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 06:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2011/08/21/deep-thought-on-a-deep-port/
Talking of it being a slow news week - http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2011/08/21/deep-thought-on-a-deep-port/
@215 lklein,
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 08:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0And you have a nice day, too.
What happenned with Malvinas is exactly the same to what is happenning now to Libya, Irak. Afghanistán, etc.
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wars to weak and poor countries to steal their resources. In the middle all kind of double standards and lies, of course in defense of their own imperialists colonialists interests.
www.opednews.com/articles/2/The-GMMR-Project-Libya-s-by-Frances-Thomas-110901-229.html
www.newera.com.na/article.php?articleid=40441&title=Africa%20needs%20a%defence%20system
253 malen
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For once we agree. It is (almost) exactly the same. In 1982, the British army acted to save an innocent and weak population from a brutal dictator.
The difference here is that Gadaffi was at the gates of Benghazi promising to massacre huge numbers of his own people. 50 000 people are still missing in Libya, and the Libyan people themselves are pointing the finger at Gadaffi.
Nobody wants to steal anything from the Libyans. That's your own ignorance and indoctrination speaking.
It's easy for you; Argentina is too incompetent and ineffectual and unprincipled to do anything outside its own backyard. Much harder to stand by and see atrocities committed if you are in a position to stop them.
The action in Libya was fully supported by the UN. I suppose you don't agree with the UN either.
253 malen:
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very good your links, it really is icreible the slaughter carried out by NATO LOOKS LIKE A NAZI ARMY
Lay off the booze Raul you're beginning to look foolish.
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Beginning?!
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Starting ?
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Only 110 killed in Benghazi and more than 20000 with the intervention of NATO
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0African problems are of their concern or in any case if UN wants to interfere do it with methods differents to those you are condemning (condenando) . Killing is always a crime.
And yes your imperialist country took Malvinas in 1833 by force. Same in Libya,etc.
And NATO (North Atlantic Terrorist Organization) is very questionated these days. Should change the tactists, is not preventing problems to happen. Its giving aid after they (NATO) destroy and kill. NATO has lost legitimacy. Instead of giving Help to the african union to become strong, no they prefer to invade and kill.
And yes they are after oil, they invade for oil and will be 20 months more to “rebuild” (occupation) and steal oil.
Leave africans alone. They want you to go. Let them be in their land with their problems, they dont need you.
www.intrepidreport.com/archives/2683
http://talkzimbabwe.com/p=1281 An interest african giving his point of view.
And as always I dont agree nothing with you.
259 malen ------ I sometimes wonder about people like, you sit all alone down there in your own world. Argentina the country that has done nothing in the world cocooned in a world of make believe and propaganda, a people that went to the other end of the world to getaway from the responsibilities that comes with being a responsible citizen of this planet. You know nothing of the real world that we live in.
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina the country that will let any Nazi war criminal become a citizen. A country that not one other country in the world trusts, a country so steeped in genocide that thought nothing of killing its own citizen's towards the end of the last century,a country that has the audacity to say that the rest of the world is wrong when it cant even get its own country right. A country that would get in bed and give sanctuary if asked to Gaddafi one of the worst monsters in the world who brought down a airliner over Scotland killing all on board and many more on the ground, who's Embassy staff killed a British policewoman, who when cornered killed and mutilated many of his own people.
Why am I not surprised that an Argentine sides with people like that, You are a despicable person 259 malen one who should be hunted down as a terrorist, because that's just what you are, anyone in this day and age who sides with a terrorist like you have done can now be classed as a terrorist and can be dealt as one.
Perhaps Argentina can be classed as a terrorist loving country as we can see its citizens side with known terrorists. Better run Malen the world hates terrorists
259 malen
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0why you not go to Libya stand in middle road and shout down with Britain,
see how long it takes before you disappeared , like all cowards you sit thousands of miles away and accuse, the good guys, while abusing your own people,
259 malen
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Which version of the news are you watching? Let me guess.....in your version of the world, the BBC, CNN, Reuters.....are all part of the global conspiracy to 'steal oil'. I imagine you think someone else planted the smouldering bodies in Gadaffi's jail, and that his broadcast stating that he wanted his country to turn into hell was actually someone else.
Of course there will be foreign companies drilling for oil. BP were about to drill before this all kicked off. Thats the way it works. Multinational corporations are the only ones with the resources to do it. They'll be in the Falklands too, not exploiting us but paying us fees.
I'm not surprised you don't agree with me. You don't seem to know anything at all about anything outside your own bigoted anti- western bubble. I'll bet you're a big fan of Mugabe as well. You must be; Zimbabwe is where your ideas lead to.
“You know nothing of the real world that we live in”
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say it? And you are going to say me how I have to understand the world? If I think different Im wrong or despicable or terrorist?
I pass. I m an adult person with brain above as everybody that still functions to take my own point of view of the world.
The truth bothers you a lot. Im not saying Kaddafhi is a saint but that you are worst. You should listen your buddhist monk trying to build a Peace Ministery in your country........Listen him.
And Briton if you defend your country invading others its you that should go there to the front. I am against militarism and wars.
263 malen
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When I was your age I was a pacifist too. And then I realised that although my head saw things in black and white, the rest of the world didn't.
Do you think any right minded person would be in favour of wars?
Do you think the people who fought against Hitler wanted a war?
When the Rwanda genocide happened, there were UN peacekeepers on the ground who did nothing because their rules of engagement forbade it. Do you think they should have been allowed to do something to stop it? Or does your being 'against militarism and wars' mean that Africans butchering a million of their own people is OK?
Mr M calls this kind of woolly- headed pacifism 'wouldn't it be nice if everyone was nice'. Well they're not.
malen you just make no sense at all,
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but if you truly truly are against wars,
then you should be against your own goverment for what it did,
and support britain for what it did, ,
anti war,,,,or just anti british
Pacifism is not a matter of age. And besides you dont know my age.
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Multinational corporations are the only ones that can do it (extract oil) ...Who says??
African butchering 1.000.000 of their own people??? 1.000.000 of afghans were killed by NATO. Is that better??
NATO is worst.... and yes for me the world doesnt need this kind of international comunnity only begging on their own interests pretending humanitarian protection. Africa needs to get united to resolve their conflicts by themselves. They are an intelligent people to do it. We could sent away our dictator, Spain could do it with Franco that was there for 40 years, nations has this problems but dont need your help. You are not better. And yes you steal, call it other way if you want but for me is steal.
Thinking different is the most normal thing in democracy and freedom.
I can write here my point and you yours. Vehementemente, yes Im vehemente and frontal. I find very interesting to listen those that surely will not write the history that their voices is not listen and that are more weak. They are saying important thing to be listened and are not being listened. The world is wild. But there are someones that are making it more wild than it should be. Its my opinnion.
ve•he•ment (v-mnt)
Sep 02nd, 2011 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0adj.
1. Characterized by forcefulness of expression or intensity of emotion or conviction; fervid: a vehement denial ???
2. Are you sure you are not African, with argentine overtones,
3. You seem very interested in African affaires,
4. But pro argentine
5. The west gives Africa millions each year,
6. The British people give millions each year,
7. You seem rather ungrateful for this,
8. Did not thousands die in the spannish civil war, or have I got this wrong.
9. Have a nice night .
266 malen
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 07:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't lecture me about democracy and freedom. I think you're entitled to your opinion; I just think you haven't thought it through properly.
Globalisation is with us wether we like it or not. When I studied geopolitics twenty years ago, the end of the 'third world' was predicted for those countries who used it to their own advantage and that is what is happening.
No-one is saying that anyone is not 'intelligent'. I don't think kicking out all the Westerners and trying to go it alone is very smart is all. You haven't said what you think about Zimbabwe. Does it look like a success to you?
Are there not times when people are entitled to have an opinion on what goes on in other countries, on moral grounds? Should South African AIDS sufferers have been denied treatment because of the ignorance of their politicians?
And NATO hasn't killed a million Afghans. You're making it up. You're also forgetting the million women who would die under the Taliban, who would forbid them basic medical care.
I don't like the intervention in Afghanistan. I don't think we should be there. But I don't know what the answer is.
Have you been to Zimbabwe, malen? Please go, it will open your eyes.
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 08:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0And we did not take the Falklands by force, we merely ejected a trespassing garrison who were on our land.
THEY would have taken the lslands by force if we had let them.
Our mistake was to have left the lslands unpopulated for too long, but they were still our lslands, not yours.
lf we leave our house empty & trespassers move in, well we have a problem. We then get rid of them because it is still OUR HOUSE.
What Argentina really means. Secretly
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ARGENTINO
IGNORANTE,
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Argentina
and in fact just under 103% of Argentines confirmed not knowing there were other countries in South, Central or North America.
The Argentine government asks all visitors to not cry for Argentina, And the unending national obsession to annex Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia, Peru, Brazil, the Falkland Islands they insist is OUR LAND, Antarctica (all of it) and the world (IL DUCHE! ARGENTINA! WE SHALL BE THE THIRD ROME!).
Argentine People
Mattel took steps to satisfy the argentine market, introducing Argentine Barbie in 1990
READ IT AND ENLIGHTEN YOUR SELVES,
Some people say that Argentina's inhabitants killed themselves when someone showed them a proof about Maradona being much worse than Pele to commit mass suicide. Maradona is of course Mexican, but the Argentine government has succeeded in covering up this fact as it believes civil war might ensue
.
Malen 266
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're right, pacifism is not a question of age is an attitude towards life against non-violence that comes from Christian roots and also from other religions and human principles. The closest examples are Mahatma Gandhi, Luther King, John Lennon,
Sad and pathetic comments of 267 Nazis and Fascists British Monty69 268, and 269 lsolde.
I encourage them to learn a little about the Nobel Peace prize ... Oh England and Argentina in the list.
2009 - Barack Obama2008 - Martti Ahtisaari2007 - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, Al Gore2006 - Muhammad Yunus, Grameen2005 Bank - International Atomic Energy Agency, Mohamed ElBaradei2004 - Wangari Maathai2003 - Shirin Ebadi2002 - Jimmy Carter2001 - Kofi Annan2000 - Kim Dae-jung1999 - Doctors Without Fronteras1998 - John Hume, David Trimble1997 - International Campaign to Ban Landmines, Jody Williams1996 - Carlos Filipe Ximenes Belo, Jose Ramos-Horta1995 - Joseph Rotblat, conferred on Science and World Affairs Pugwash Mundiales1994 - Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres Yitzhak Rabin1993 - Nelson Mandela, FW of Klerk1992 - Rigoberta Menchu Tum1991 - Aung San Suu Kyi1990 - Mikhail Gorbachev1989 - The 14th Dalai Lama1988 - Forces Unidas1987 Nations Peace - Oscar Arias Sánchez1986 - Elie Wiesel1985 - International Physicians for the Prevention of War Nuclear1984 - Desmond Tutu1983 - Lech Walesa1982 - Alva Myrdal, Alfonso García Robles1981 - High Commissioner of the United Nations Office for Refugiados1980 - Adolfo Perez Esquivel1979 - Mother Teresa1978 - Anwar al-Sadat, Menachem Begin1977 - Amnesty Internacional1976, and many people and oraganizaciones more.
Beyond crimes Kadafi, the solution to NATO (Britain and France). The remedy is far worse than the disease, is the final solution of Adolf Hitler, only interested in the oil to exploit and kill. We all know that UN resolution is a farce like George Bush in invading Iraq.
You'll see ....
Sad and pathetic comments of 267/////
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0271 RAUL ,,for an idiot you make a stupid looking comment,
you ungrateful indoctrinated degenerate child,
My countrymen give millions to help others,
Like all decent peoples in the world, we give what we can to help others that are not as fortunate as ourselves,
Then we get pathetic pricks like you that sit their and condemn,
Their are millions of people in this world that are very grateful for all the help they receive,
and I wont sit here and listen to a degenerate ungrateful mongrel like you insult all those people that give help , and all those poor people that receive it, if this is the standard by which some of you argie bloggers live by, you should be totally ashamed of your selves,
You are nothing short of a disgrace,, insult me if you wish, but don’t insult millions of poor dying people that are desperate for help,
You sad pathetic person you ,,,
271 Raul
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I encourage you to learn a bit about world history, you feeble specimen.
Do you really think Mandela was a pacifist? or Begin?
You really don't know anything at all, do you.
And if you think I'm a fascist, I'd hate to think what leftists in your country look like. I'm not offended, because I doubt you know what fascism is, and because the kind of pseudo communist Trotskyite politico- babble that you and Malen indulge in is the preserve of students in grungy dreadlocks with dogs on strings in most other places.
You're a joke. Go away and educate yourself and come back when you have something sensible to say.
@273 Monty69,
Sep 04th, 2011 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Like your description of Raul & Malen! Raul, a feeble specimen! ha ha.
Even together they don't have the reasoning power of a retarded gnat.
malen won't even do any research, just repeats, parrot fashion all the lies that she learned at school.
who cares about the losers anyway.
Isolde #269,
Sep 04th, 2011 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0whilst on holiday here in London I picked up on a press story about Romanian families coming over in the holiday season and occupying the homes of London families away on holiday. They are free to enter the country as the Schengen Agreement now allows them to do so, and, if they do not break the lock on the front door, they cannot be thrown out for illegal entry or breaking and entering. The Romanians throw out all the owners contents and, in the fullness of time, when the legal process actually evicts them and the Social Services house them, they trash the property on departure.
I really think the new British (Conservative) authorities should grow a decent sized pair of balls - the shrivelled (Labour/politically correct/human rights) excuse for adult civic manhood is shown for what it is - a country unable and unwilling to adequately protect its people.
Geoff
Sep 04th, 2011 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK is not part of the Schengen Agreement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement
I believe he means the right to move and reside freely.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a strange little world we live in, changing all the time,
Sep 04th, 2011 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but perhaps we should remember that we are not the only inhabitents of this world, ?
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