MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Did Argentina Trade Visas for Holocaust Loot?
A new book about the darker side of Latin-American politics alleges some disturbing dealings between Argentina and Hitler’s cronies. Read full article
A new book about the darker side of Latin-American politics alleges some disturbing dealings between Argentina and Hitler’s cronies. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesAlso Evita had some companies' shares in Texas(US) .
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0I thought this was well known and hardly a secret.
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Eva Peron may well have given hope to people with hopeless lives but much of her perceived achievements are the product of fantasy. In a way it undermines her true achievements in promoting women's issues.
Is well known that Argentina took all the nazi's in.
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Though, to be fair, when things got too hot for them in Argentina they moved to Paraguay.
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0This story by Merco is a copy of the Telegraph from a few days ago, sounds like another writer trying to make money without showing any proof.
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The book has triggered a wave of controversy, winning praise from some historians for stimulating debate but attracting strong criticism from others for a lack of historical context”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/8735411/Eva-Peron-kept-Nazi-treasure-taken-from-Jews.html
What about national treasures and land stolen by the British all over the planet?
Were the Elgin Marbles returned to Greece for example?
tut tut marcos
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0just when you were trying to justify your nasty past,
you had to go and spoilt it, by bringing up somebody elses past,
to try and compare great britain to the nazis , is below any decent human, buy trying to pass the buck, you meerly confirm that you may be hiding things, , like trying to steal the falklands,
pot kettle ect ect .
The Elgin Marbles were bought and paid for Marcos. Not stolen. If they had not been bought by Lord Elgin and cared for it's unlikely they would exist today anyway. You prat!
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What about national treasures and land stolen by the British all over the planet?
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[what about the land argentina stole from the original peoples ]
Were the Elgin Marbles returned to Greece for example
was patagonia return to its rightfull owners, ,
tut tut [king]
Using the argument that 'other people have done terrible things' is no defence. The subject being debated here is whether or not there is any truth in the accusation that Eva Peron took jewels stolen from Jews in return for her husband giving Nazi's a safe haven.
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That Argentina and other South American countries welcomed and hid Nazi's is perfectly well documented. That Eva Peron possessed enough jewellery to rival any royal queen is also well documented. (For a woman of reperesenting the poor she sure liked all the trapping of wealth). I guess the question here is, are the two facts are related?
Would Eva have even known where the jewels came from? Most were gifts from her husband who mysteriously acquired a huge personal wealth shortly after being elected. Having read some of her personal writings I doubt her intelligence. They read like the ravings of a lunatic on the cusp of a manic cycle. I think we should be looking to Juan as the villian here if it is true.
Simple question:
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anybody knows where this treasures stolen from wealthy Jewish are?
Anybody knows where stolen national treasures from all over the planet are, like the Elgin Marbles for example?
Just visit London Museums.
10 - I know where one particular stolen national treasure is.
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here a clue ... she sometimes wears it on her head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zJJoPiGDKc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zJJoPiGDKc
@10 Unable to debate the subject of the article? OK well maybe someone more informed will take up the debate.
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“A new book about the darker side of Latin-American politics alleges some disturbing dealings between Argentina and Hitler’s cronies.” EXCUSE ME, BUT IS THIS NEWS? THE WRITER OF THIS BOOK IS SAYING NOTHING NEW, THIS HAS BEEN SAID A THOSAND TIMES. LOOK, STOP TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT PERÓN AND EVITA WERE NAZIS. MANY HAVE TRIED THIS BEFORE AND IT DIDN'T WORK. NOBODY CARES IF PERON WAS A NAZI.
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@11
“stolen national treasure” AND WHAT IS THE NATIONALITY OF THAT TREASURE?
“In 1947, the then First Lady Eva Peron included a brief trip to Switzerland during a publicity tour of Europe to try and boost the image of her husband's regime abroad” MMM I THOUGHT SHE TOURED EUROPE TO GIVE PEOPLE FOOD, SPAIN WAS HUNGRY, LIKE RIGHT NOW, AND SHE WENT THERE TO HELP THEM. EUROPE WAS A DISASTER, LIKE RIGHT NOW.
Leandro Narloch and Duda Teixeira, IF YOU WANT TO MAKE MONEY, LEARN FROM J.K.ROWLING, HARRY POTTER MADE HER A ZILLIONAIRE!!!
And once again, peoples of the world, the experts who are quick to condemn others, and yet hide their own counties atrocities theft and corruption, of other peoples land, money and precious possessions,
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina the land they project as the land of peace and trustworthy governments, honest and reliable truthful and none violent,
Would you believe the rantings of two very honest bloggers like marcos and destiny ??
Two upstanding pillars of the argentine community,
?????
well its a treasure from india now located in britain. open the link.
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0i wouldnt call europe a disaster, not when you look at its gdp and various life quality index ratings.
Argentina must deport all it's Jews ,Armenians.... immediatelly !!
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 011 Destiny, You're right, the Kohinoor diamond another national treasure stolen by the British, most of the Brits do not have a clue about it, Indian people like many others around the World are claiming the return of stolen property to the UK.
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 012 ElaineB, It is not matter of debate , everybody knows that some war criminals sought refuge in Argentina aided or not, the people here didn't know. Are you aware of how many Jews live in Argentina as well?
What about the operation paper clip, thousands of Nazis were taken to US including a Waffen SS officer consider the father of NASA( Von Braun)
British trying to lecture anybody in this field is hypocritical and laughable.
There is no question that Europe is dealing with a financial mess. But, it is all relative. I spend more than half of every year working in South American countries and know the reality. You cannot compare the standards of living. The grinding poverty that millions of SoAm's live in is on a whole different scale to the conditions we describe as poverty in developed countries.
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But getting back to the article. I don't think Peron was a Nazi. He certainly courted many fascist dictators as friends. I think that is the fascinating dichotomy of Peron and his second wife. They despised the rich and powerful but enjoyed a rich and powerful lifestyle. They claimed to be socialists whilst courting fascists. Eva Peron made rambling speeches full of nonsense yet because of her delivery and passion the masses lapped it up. If she stood on the balcony of the Casa Rosada reciting the shipping forecast whilst wringing her hands the masses would have cried and proclaimed her a saint.
I don't think for a moment that Eva went to Spain to feed the Spanish at all. At that time the Argentines were obsessed with how the world viewed them and it was a pure promotional tour. I also do not believe she visited Switzerland to deposit a stash of cash.
But it is worth asking where all those jewels she loved so much came from, don't you think?
but did not some germans go to russia, this all happend before i was even born, let it lay .
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”What about the operation paper clip, thousands of Nazis were taken to US including a Waffen SS officer consider the father of NASA( Von Braun)
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0British trying to lecture anybody in this field is hypocritical and laughable.”
The British do not run the US Marcos, so I'm not really sure what you are trying to say, oh and Lord Elgin paid for the marbles. They were never stolen.
@17 The people didn't know? I guess the man on the street didn't but certainly the people in power did. That is a fact.
Sep 03rd, 2011 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am not sure of your point about Jews. Certainly Buenos Aires had the largest Jewish population outside of Israel and New York at one point. In fact, the first gauchos were Russian Jewish immigrants. But I cannot see how that relates to the article unless you suggesting the jewels were given directly to Eva by the Jews in Buenos Aires?
You know, one third of all visitors to Buenos Aires are gay? Does this mean that more people are gay in Buenos Aires than anywhere else in South America? Of course not. It just indicates either a greater tolerance or the realisation that there is a lot of money in the pink peso. Money opens doors.
Of course the Peron family knew where they came from its inconceivable that they didn't, and why did the Peron woman go to Switzerland it certainly was not to take in the Swiss scenery, the only reason that people went to that country a few years ago was to hide money or ill gotten gains, if anyone thinks differently then I suggest they go see a psychiatrist as they are delusional.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Talking of delusional.
Marcos Alejandro--- I sometimes wonder about your sanity or your knowledge of history in your haste to poison everyone with your poisonous comments about the British, it actually fools no one it just makes you look a fool.
And as or Argentina never looting a thing I think we will find that the name Argentine gives the game away. Your forefathers plundered their way through out all of South America plundering it of silver and gold. I will tell you what Marcos, we British will give back the bit we plundered when you lot give back every bit of silver and gold you pillaged and plundered.
Does the saying, those living in glass houses should not throw stones ring a bell Marcos.
Elaine, Can you please tell me where can we find Evita's Jewels?
Sep 04th, 2011 - 06:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0I know where to find the crown jewels and many other stolen goods in England.
Brits learn a little from your neighbours to the south.
“Italy returns Parthenon marble fragment to Greece”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/artdesign/story/2008/09/24/parthenon-marble-italy.html
“Italy Returns Stolen Obelisk to Ethiopia”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/artdesign/story/2008/09/24/parthenon-marble-italy.html
“'The Politically Incorrect Guide to Latin America”
Sep 04th, 2011 - 08:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now, that's a serious source! Seriously people, let's first wait someone else picks up that story - someone of more repute than obscure right-wingers such as Narloch and Teixeira.
Narloch is somewhat known in Brazil. On his “Guia Politicamente Incorreto da História do Brasil”, he attemped to make European colonization sound less harsh by adducing the fact that the Natives started forest arsons in combat against other tribes.... That's how deep his intellect goes.
[] - 23 M.Alejo
Sep 04th, 2011 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0don't forget the archeological art pieces hoarded in London !!
and their smuggling !!
Marcos,
Sep 04th, 2011 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0As stated, Lord Elgin paid for the marbles. lf they hadn't been removed from Greece then they probably wouldn't exist today.
The Turks, who controlled Greece in those days were crushing all marble that they could find for roadbase.
Thats how little they valued ancient Greece.
Yes, return them if Greece really wants them, the same as other treasures in museums around the world. But get it right & tell the truth, not-“the British this, that & the other”
And Greece can refund the sale price(plus inflation!).
BTW,-Whats in museums in B.A. etc? any stolen artifacts?
@26 The museums in BsAs are very poor so I doubt it. Which makes one wonder where all the jewels and treasure have gone. We know Eva had a huge collection, maybe Juan smuggled them out of the country when he was in exile? I don't know. And Argentine may be a newly minted country but it was wealthy about 100 years ago.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0@26 they reckon the best Grecian antiquities are in Sicily and southern Italy....
Sep 04th, 2011 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0@27
Sep 04th, 2011 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Question of the day: Is the gold from St Peter's basilica from the sack of Jerusalem by the Romans?
@29 lol Why are you asking me?
Sep 04th, 2011 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
Sep 04th, 2011 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“2 ElaineB
Eva Peron may well have given hope to people with hopeless lives but much of her perceived achievements are the product of fantasy.”
9 ElaineB
Having read some of her personal writings I doubt her intelligence. They read like the ravings of a lunatic on the cusp of a manic cycle.”
18 ElaineB
Eva Peron made rambling speeches full of nonsense yet because of her delivery and passion the masses lapped it up.”
What a pitiful, self-centered, green-eyed little woman!!!
.
.
.
.
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And I’m not referring to Evita………………………………
@30
Sep 04th, 2011 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry E, question for the Forum .....
31
Sep 04th, 2011 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You got green eyes then ?
I thought they'd be brown.
Tell the truth now.
@31 Can't make a counter-argument? Blind fanaticism is no substitute for intellect.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can't imagine anyone being jealous of a semi-literate who died young because of her own narcissism. Refusing a hysterectomy when it might have saved her life because it interferred with her image as the 'mother of the poor' is ridiculously narcissistic.
It is a shame because she really did achieve some positives; furthering the rights of women and children in particular. But, then again, she would never have become Evita if more time in power had been her judge.
Penalty try to you Elaine.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well converted!!
(34)
Sep 04th, 2011 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the pitiful, self-centered, green-eyed little woman continues her deceit.
Poor little thing……………. She can’t counter-argument against blind fanaticism!
But she’s quite content with her abyssal Vogue/ Financial Times superficiality and her use of unsubstantiated trivia, hearsay and gossip about Evita………………
Would you care to link to or at least mention some of the “Serious Historical Sources” that gave you such a deep insight about the life and death of Eva Duarte?
@36
Sep 04th, 2011 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Little off topic, el “Pocho” de que Arma era, Infante?
(34)
Sep 04th, 2011 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing more than gossip and perfidy……………......................................
It wouldn’t take me more than five minutes to find some “Serious British Internet Sites” accusing Sir Winston Churchill of having sodomized Rufus I and II since early puppyhood or claiming that Fergie, Duchesss of York did “borrow” the baby princesses to her ex-husband’s pedophile friends.
That wouldn’t make it more true that your rubbish info about Evita.
Would it?
@36 You have not offered a single fact or argument relating to the article or Eva Peron in general so I guess my knowledge is considerable greater.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I research extensively and form my own opinions. You should try it rather than just accepting what you are told to think.
btw Infantile insults are not attractive in a grown man. Stop embarrassing yourself.
27 ElaineB “The museums in BsAs are very poor so I doubt it”
Sep 04th, 2011 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I had the opportunity to visit the British Museum a few years ago, it felt like walking through the loot vault of the world's biggest thief.
26 Isolde “Yes, return them if Greece really wants them”
Well. hellooooo Isolde, please watch the whole video, in Greek with translation.
http://www.greece.org/blogs/marbles/?page_id=212
have you research about the hysterectomy too???
Sep 04th, 2011 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or thats a theme you got to know through drama skills used in Opera Evita??
She was discovered cancer while being operated of apendicitis. At that time PAP to discover the first steps of this illness was not common here.
She was made an hysterecmy in 1951 and was the first patient in receiving quimiotherapy in Arg. She died one year later.
I dont agree with the concept that if you are semiliterate you cant be intelligent (she was intelligent, Isabelita was not, perhaps you are confusing her) and either with the concept that she wouldnt have been Evita if she hadnt die so young.......she already was Evita movilizing multitudes before so much time before this illness happenned to her.
Sorry but the failly tail you are told of her life is really different of what we know of her here.
(39) Chuckle chuckle™
Sep 04th, 2011 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don’t try your cunny femenine DARVO* techniques with me, little girl…
I can picture you …………..deep embedded into your research of British Airways Inflight and Glamour Magazines.
*DARVO: Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender
@41 You knew her personally? A lot of my opionion has been formed by research in Argentina.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0She had the opportunity of a hysterectomy much earlier but turned it down for the reasons I stated. (That is documented). And probably because it is a very difficult decision for a woman to make. At that time she probably still hoped for children of her own as she was a young woman.
No, I don't base my research on a play/opera designed for entertainment. But there is a lot of research material both in Argentina and in other archives if you are inclined to research beyond propoganda.
Oral history is also interesting to explore. Not incidentally, many Argentines question the myths surrounding Eva Peron's life.
”I dont agree with the concept that if you are semiliterate you cant be intelligent (she was intelligent, Isabelita was not, perhaps you are confusing her)”
Interesting point. Yes, I agree that being literate is not the only measure of intelligence. But have you read some of her writings - before they were rewritten by Juan's people? If that is how her mind worked she displays a distinct lack of intelligent thought. It is no wonder he censored so much of her written work.
As I have said before, I think she achieved a lot for women's issues at the time. And her displays of passion worked well for the Argentine crowd. She was in the right place at the right time. But I still think that given time her sparkle would have faded. And it would be interesting to know what happened to all the jewels and wealth she acquired.
Eva Perón
Sep 04th, 2011 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I suppose you can find out many things if you look,
Strange and odd, but whether true or not, only those that know her perhaps personally
Could very well verify if true or not,
Some interesting things come to light, especially when many are looking for her jewelry
To note
She was illegitimate,, age of 15, she went to Buenos Aires, where she pursued a career as a stage, radio, and film actress,
She visited Europe , and was very welcomed in Spain, but welcomed lesser at the tour went on,
Spain was very good, , she did not go to the UK, and Switzerland was a very bad experience ,
But as Switzerland is where everybody stashes their wealth, it may just be possible, that all or some of her wealth, is still their,
Evita's body disappeared for 16 years. From 1955 until 1971 still a mystery ,
Final resting place
In 1971, Evita's body was exhumed and flown to Spain, where Juan Perón maintained the corpse in his home./, decided to keep the corpse on their dining room table. In 1973, Juan Perón came out of exile and returned to Argentina, , It was Isabel who had Evita's body returned to Argentina and (briefly) displayed beside Juan Perón's. The body was later buried in the Duarte family tomb in La Recoleta Cemetery, Buenos Aires.
Extensive measures /to secure Evita's tomb. There is a trapdoor in the tomb's marble floor, which leads to a compartment that contains two coffins. Under the first compartment is a second trapdoor and a second compartment. That is where Evita's coffin rests.
. “It reflects a fear,” they write, “a fear that the body will disappear from the tomb and that the woman, or rather the myth of the woman, will reappear.”[57] This cemetery, which is located in the northern part of barrio Recoleta, also holds the remains of many illustrious military generals, presidents, scientists, poets and other affluent Argentinians. There is a saying in Argentina that it costs much more to die than it does to live.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Per%C3%B3n
where is documented that she didnt make the hysterectomy early because she wanted to be the mother of the poors???
Sep 04th, 2011 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Saying that she didnt make the hysterectomy early because she wanted to have children in the future is different and doesnt shows her as narcissist in this theme as you want to make her appear. She was narcissist in other things Im not going to tell you (do your research).
What I know of her and im not peronist by the way, is that she wasnt told the truth of her illness, instead some vaguedades...not to worry her....thats true.
And my family, yes my father recieved a gift of her when he was a kid. She used to do that.
And besides she has good things and bads as all persons.
I dont know what happenned with the jewels.
And nazis yes they came with the protection of Peron, stablished in Gral Belgrano Còrdoba and Bariloche. Nothing new. Thing that happens in the final of second world. Also our country has colaborated with Simon Wisenthal Center to put in jail this people.
(451) Malen
Sep 04th, 2011 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Señorita ElaineB asserts that she has extensively researched Evita’s history and that all what all what she says is “documented”.
We must, of course, accept what señorita ElaineB says at face value.
Anything else would be an insult to such a literate British being.
I dont remember her writtings but i remember her speeches and she managed to talk and get to the heart of many ...I find that very intelligent.....You know that there are different kind of intelligence (for ex Messi has motor intelligence not speeching intelligence)..... I would like to see you Elaine in that situation
Sep 04th, 2011 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think She seems to be making the biography of Evita and must be looking for our reaction at her statements...I dont know
La concha de la lora !!!!!!!!!!! de que Arma era el pocho ????????????????
Sep 04th, 2011 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@47 Malen = female?
@45 I think she definitely displayed traits of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Was she all bad? I don't think so. Was she a saint? I don't think so. But like all narcissists she was adept at justifying everything she did, even if she contradicted herself.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is not unusual for people with NPD to work their way into positions of power and status.
I am sure you are already aware of the controversy over her estate.
Looking to the question that forms the title of the article, who can say? Why would Argentina want to issue visas to a bunch of animals that at least half the world was looking to capture and punish for their bestial crimes? Oh, of course, the appearance of legality. All the evidence for the last 70+ years is that Argentina is wedded to the “appearance” of legality. Just like it is wedded to the “appearance” of morality, the “appearance” of veracity. Of course, it's not wedded to the actuality of legality, morality and veracity. It's actually doubtful whether Argentines understand the meanings of the words let alone the concepts behind them.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 046
Sep 04th, 2011 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dear me I see you're still in sneer mode.
I thought Elaine made some excellent points that certainly didn't deserve such juvenile abuse.
I read somewhere that the Argentine soldiers guarding the embalmed body of Evita indulged in a bit of necrophilia. Is this true?
What a way to treat a National Treasure!
43 ElaineB “And it would be interesting to know what happened to all the jewels”
Sep 04th, 2011 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May be nobody knows because her jewels were no more no less than any other woman on earth.
Why the British are so interested in “her jewels” anyway, your Queen has enough stolen jewels at the Jewel House in the Tower of London already, don't you think.
Will be nice to see the British monarchy at least pretending to help the poor instead of starving them to death by the millions like they normally do.
Are you psicóloga??
Sep 04th, 2011 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Always worried of others personalities “states”
And the documents??
Never mind
Evita is an icon here, has people that likes her and others that hates her. Difficult to talk about her. As a woman of that time and in that historical context, I would say (and Im entitled to my oppinnion) she did more than one could expected and introduced significant changes in our social, medical, educational, labour, womans and children rights, etc system with her husband. She was not figurita decorativa. She was una mujer protagonista de su historia.
(47) Malen
Sep 04th, 2011 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have, in my time, met quite a few people like Señorita ElaineB.
Highly educated in one or two intelligences… highly ignorant in all others.
Typical for most of them is:
1) They convince themselves that they get to know the Countries they visit by talking to some Service Individuals. (Taxi drivers, hotel clerks, restaurant waiters, portieres, maids, etc. who are heavily dependent on pleasing their preconceptions.)
2) While in the Country, they are “hosted by their own class of People” and, when (and if) they make contact with other strata of society, they are heavily “chaperoned” by their hosts.
3) Most of them do not even speak the language of the Countries or Peoples they form such strong opinions about.
4) They all, without exception, hate to be told what I just told you :-)
54 :)
Sep 04th, 2011 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Prepare youThink, here comes Elaine again.......
Why are you all so obsessed with me personally? Last time I looked the article was about Argentina, Eva Peron and the association with Nazis.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@53 I totally agree that she achieved many things especially regarding womens rights. Although, as an unelected official she could not have done that without the support of her husband.
I think it is important to try to understand a person/icon. Understanding the person leads to understanding their actions.
@54 LOL! Your assumptions are so far off base to be ridiculous. But if it comforts you to think that is true then live it up. Your opinion of me is of no consequence.
(55) Malena
Sep 04th, 2011 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You knew Señorita ElaineB would reply!....
I knew Señorita ElaineB wouldn’t like to hear the truth…..
We Argentineans are not sooooooo stupid after all :-)
Comment removed by the editor.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0obsessed with you?? No, with some of your comments that are not so documented.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Evita was a political woman, with or without the support of her husband.
Perhaps they are trying to latch on to you,
Sep 04th, 2011 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They do say some argentines feel rather inferior when a much more intelligent person out wits them,
especially when it is an intelligent woman,
Perhaps you have made them feel rather inferior
Or they are just jealous, you being British, and them inferior argentines lolol.
justa thought lol
54 Think
Sep 04th, 2011 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's a bit much coming from you; you think you know all about the Falkland Islands from what you read on the internet. And Malen thinks she knows all about the Falklands from reading trashy newspapers.
Prepare you Think, here comes Monty................
Sep 04th, 2011 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I leave her for you ..........
Trashy newspapers, come on real sources you mean
out witted and out manouvered by the brits, and they go very quiet, while they go and re think, their statagy .lol.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, the idea of a debate is for people to offer opinions and reply back and forth. You don't have to agree but it is usual to respect the opinions of others.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I like to hear contrary views but some people just don't seem to hold any opinions on the subject matter but prefer to make childish insults. Very unattractive in an adult.
@ 59 I agree but she would never have been able to achieve all that she did without the support of her husband. Remember women had only just been given a vote and were not considered worthy of positions of power. Put in historical context she was 'allowed' to champion causes only in so far as it suited her husband and the establishment. When it was suggested that she wield some real power by holding an elected office she was very quickly rejected.
T'was a man's world back then. Still is in many parts of the world. : )
62 malen
Sep 04th, 2011 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'Proper sources'?
Like the Daily Mail???? That's where that little gem 'squidilionaires' came from isn't it?
Are all Argentinians so insecure, unreasonable and hypocritical?
Sep 04th, 2011 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With the RU World Cup Finals less than a week away perhaps these RG's are suffering from PMT *
*Pre Match Tension
(61) Monty96
Sep 04th, 2011 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A bit much?....... No way!.......
If you had paid attention to my previous posts, you would have noticed that I have been in Malvinas.
If you had paid attention to my previous posts, you would have noticed that I know a few Kelpers.
If you had paid attention to my previous posts, you would have noticed that, as Patagonians, we have a lot in common.
If you had paid attention to my previous posts, you would have noticed that I don’t try to play unbiased, balanced and objective as ElaineB does.
If you had paid attention to my previous posts, you would have noticed that I speak your language fluently and with great ignorance.
67 Think
Sep 04th, 2011 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry, I missed that bit.
Have you really been in the Falklands?
Who do you know?
Use the Mercopress Archive function, honey.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 067
Sep 04th, 2011 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I speak your language................with great ignorance”
At last, we agree on something.
Elaine has you rattled - admit it.
You could just tell me.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 071
Sep 04th, 2011 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Mercopress Archive proves nothing.
Give us names and dates or prepare to be disbelieved.
(71)
Sep 04th, 2011 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I could.
You're no fun any more :-(
Sep 04th, 2011 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I never was.....................
Sep 04th, 2011 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One thing I've learned today is that Egypt should never lend its mummies out to Argentinian museums.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not if they want them back “intact” so to speak.
he cant
Sep 04th, 2011 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0he wont
if he did
he would give himself away,
but back on track,
avita, i would suggest that their wont be many brits that know anything about her,
so you will just have to play with what you have,
or talk about the british falklands ,, mmmm
77 briton
Sep 04th, 2011 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know he's not going to tell me who his Falkland pals are, because I would be able to find out his identity easily, and such a thing is not to be borne.
Alternatively, he could be making it all up. What a mysterious internet world we live in.
very true,
Sep 04th, 2011 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but if they are that interested in evita all they have to do is look,
but the brits allways find what they cannot,
Eva Peron
Where is her jewellery
Is it in [Argentina][Britain][America][Switzerland ][France]
Na,,,,[try Italy
] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/22/eva-peron-jewelry-recovered-argentina-italy-_n_882329.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/22/eva-peron-jewelry-recovered-argentina-italy-_n_882329.html
or try Spain,,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/22/eva-peron-jewelry-recovered-argentina-italy-_n_882329.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/22/eva-peron-jewelry-recovered-argentina-italy-_n_882329.html
All you have to do is look
Enjoy mmm
78
Sep 04th, 2011 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He's/she's making it up.
He/she has never been to the Falklands and knows no Falkland Islanders.
How do I know that?
Trust me.
“If you had paid attention to my previous posts, you would have noticed that I don’t try to play unbiased, balanced and objective as ElaineB does.”
Sep 04th, 2011 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am not playing anything. No offence but it is an just adult approach to gaining information and research.
#54 Mr Think, incredible power of synthesis and perfect description of a poor soul.
Sep 04th, 2011 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Permitime agregar,
5) mala leche
so why is it that I ask a simple question and everybody ignores me? :-))
Sep 04th, 2011 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@83 Who said that? : )
Sep 04th, 2011 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I remember a discussion I had with “Be trollish.” He was demeaning Mercosur countries' agriculture regulations. Then I lashed back point it out that Mercosur has never caused an food security international crisis - unlike the UK which once had its food exports banned for more than 10 years (1996-2006) by Germany. After that, he was all like, “How mean you are, sniff sniff.”
Sep 04th, 2011 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@84
Sep 04th, 2011 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My question on #37 :-((
64 Elaine yes Evita had to fight against stablishment and oligarchy and machism
Sep 05th, 2011 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0And about Evita more than being called the mother of the poors, she was known as ”the abanderada (theres not exactly translation for this in google, but is sth I never was, the best pupil of all the school, that is entitled to represent the school carrying the flag in scholar acts or ceremonies) of the humbles, dispossessed, forgotten, shirtless (on the contrary to the oligarchs that used shirts), black little heads (cabecitas negras)”. Thats the right way and the vocabulary she used.
37 Artillero601
Sep 05th, 2011 - 01:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Little off topic, el “Pocho” de que Arma era, Infante?”
Answer: El pueblo.
@37 Artillero1,
Sep 05th, 2011 - 05:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Didn't you know? malen said she was female many months back.
@ plenty, ElaineB,
Well you've touched a few ultra-sensitive nerves, haven't you?
Try not to play Think's silly games. He just changes the rules to suit himself. l don't take the silly old codger too seriously.
You have some very good points, but predictably the Argentines don't like them. l enjoy reading your point of view.
@ Marcos,
Well haloooo to you too, milkboy.
85
Sep 05th, 2011 - 08:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0All I recall was mentioning Argentina's (not Mercosur's) appalling record on foot and mouth and you got all upset and defensive. But that was ages ago, you need to get over yourself
Anyway can we get back to Eva Peron and where she stashed all those jewels please.
I think I remember that thread better than you. And nice to see that you don't deny getting all teary eyed after I pointed out the UK's even more embarassing record on food crises. And make no mistake, I don't care about anything you said back then. I'm only pointing out how easy is it to spoil the provocative demeanor you have adopted throughout this discussion.
Sep 05th, 2011 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0I thought you meant I had a cold.
Sep 05th, 2011 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0We Brits leave the crying to you Argentinians .
Tune in on Saturday morning and you'll see what I mean.
Hope that wasn't too provocative for you.
Congratulations are in order though - I hear Argentina has just been declared Foot and Mouth free after 5 long years.
See how reasonable and even handed I am.
Do you have anything to say about Eva Peron and the holocaust loot?
Disgusting about those Argentine soldiers don't you think?
@87 Yes, I understand her role as champion of the poor and disaffected. I interviewed some people who received gifts of bicycles from her and it meant far more to them than an object. They pointed out that no one had ever given them anything before and it gave them a sense of worth. That held greater significance.
Sep 05th, 2011 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0She was also called Eva the Whore and a gold-digger by her opponents and the upper classes. (They should know all about social climbing and marrying well). Grossly unfair (imo)and far more offensive in the fifties.
But I still think she had character flaws (one could draw comparisons with The Princess of Wales); charismatic and empathetic but a nightmare to deal with as many will attest.
@ others. Thanks for the positive responses, it was just a discussion. No conclusions about where the jewels came from or went to but interesting.
And finally, I am not writing a book about Eva Peron. : ) It is just interesting how she polarises Argentines. The younger generations in particular seem able to look at her through unbias eyes but most will love or hate her. Tis the same when discussing Pinochet in Chile, 50/50 love or loathe.
93
Sep 05th, 2011 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Another well balanced and thought provoking post.
91
I'm afraid the archives show your memory isn't as good as you think.
Be trollish, do you want me to leave a link so you can see by yourself how your stance changed from arrogance to crying out about my lack of consideration for your feelings? :)
Sep 05th, 2011 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Btw, I'm not Argentinian, Be trollish. Most posters around here know that. So I don't care about whatever happens on Saturday. You should know, however, that neither do most Argentinians.
What I said about the thread, you can find in comment #27. I don't think Narloch (ever heard of him?) is an authoritative or unbiased source since his other works are nothing short of ideologized polemicism. I wouldn't yet rush to conclusions as certain British posters are gladly doing already - not based on him alone.
As for the rest, I'm in here because I want to knock you down like I did before. I'm waiting for opportunity to rise again. :)
95
Sep 05th, 2011 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Titter, titter is that it?
All that pent up anger, saved up over how many months?
Its really not good for your heart. You should always get things out in the open make a clean breast of things.
Like another Argentinian tosser on here you like to quote other posters who know who you are and where you're from. It can't be proved, so why do you expect anybody to give it the time of day. In any event being the sad tosser you are, you probably post under numerous names. What do you think?
So you want to knock me down do you? Give it your best shot you saddo . Opportunity knocks as they say.
@88
Sep 05th, 2011 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you don't the answer , don't say anything :-)
@84
E, talking about Evita is like talking about someone else's mother .... If you say the wrong thing, the whole family will turn against you. Just a thought
@97 With respect I think you are wrong. Eva Peron was a political figure and, therefore, open to discussion. If some people are not mature enough to handle the discourse they can elect not to read the comments.
Sep 05th, 2011 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here is a thought. If I say something someone else doesn't agree with does that make my opinion wrong? Of course not. It is another opinion. I would have thought Argentines of all people would welcome the free and open discussion denied to them for so many years.
@98
Sep 05th, 2011 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I may be wrong like you say , but what happens when debate turns into fanaticism ?
@99 Some people will always be narrowminded and refuse to listen to any other point of view. That is their problem and their small world.
Sep 05th, 2011 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0: )
@100
Sep 05th, 2011 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is not the other point of view in question, is you as a foreigner to point those out .... Please don't take it as an insult. :-)
@101 lol! I am not at all offended. You are always polite and funny.
Sep 05th, 2011 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, I can see what you are saying but this is a discussion board, not afternoon tea with the vicar. Mercopress is an English language news agency that invites comment from its' readers. Therefore, any article is open for comment by all readers. If that is unpalatable for some of the more delicate constitutions then they can visit and comment at the Evita fanboard. (Or the CFK fanboard).
I do not get offended when foreigners comment about the UK news stories. I might not agree with them but would defend their right to have an opinion and to express it.
Maybe it is a cultural difference. But I am inclined to think that if you come here to read and comment you should be willing to accept not everything you read will be palatable.
Just sayin'.
@102
Sep 05th, 2011 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If I continue defending you , I probably end up with a pike in my gizzards by the “Peronistas” lol !!!
102 ElaineB “Mercopress is an English language news agency” funded by the colonial government in Malvinas.
Sep 05th, 2011 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you write articles for the Daily Mail or the closed News of The World tabloid?
Just askin'.
@103. Yes, don't put yourself in the firing line. : )
Sep 05th, 2011 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am completely unaffected by personal insults from people I neither admire nor respect, so don't worry.
103 Artillero601 That's ok, we forgive you, even the most stuck-up females like attention :-)
Sep 05th, 2011 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@106
Sep 05th, 2011 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Forgiveness from you? I rather be cut open by a kukri knife ! :-)
@104 LOL! I am not a journalist but can drink like one if the need arises. : )
Sep 05th, 2011 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I haven't been following all the posts but, as I understand it, Eva Peron was a SLUT. Open her legs for anyone. Bend over and take it in the butt from anyone. Basically because hubby's little dick couldn't touch the sides or reach the end. Too many of the armed forces already reamed it out. Both sides.
Sep 05th, 2011 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Isn't Argentina's current president much the same? No matter where you go, the plastic's much the same once you've shoved a bag over the ugly bits. Query. Did she really smother the old man? Can't blame her too much if he used to smack her around. However, murder is murder. Time for a non-Argentine investigation? Can't have a murderess leading a country (?).
Well this post goes from good to bad / then back to good,
Sep 05th, 2011 - 11:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I did post the links about the missing jewellery
That should have kept the argies happy,.
An or a , British rose, being admired by an admirer,
As for Argentina, what can we say, that haven’t already been said, and visa-versa
Evita is as well known to us on here, as Diana doors is to you ,
Conclusion, who ever gets the missing jewels will always claim they belong to Argentina, but denying any knowledge of where they of been obtained in the first place,
Besides do you really want them adorned on the head or your latest leader ,
Let her be remembered by those who know her, with fond memories
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
See we can be very kind , if we try,
just try just a thought,,
,
Poor Conqueror, Typhoon, Harrier61(Brian Riches), he is still pissed about the American support to Argentina
Sep 06th, 2011 - 04:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nice comment Brian R. and remember the Americans call them Malvinas.
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/60697,news-comment,news-politics,britain-protested-over-us-officials-malvinas-barb-falkland-islands-argentina
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/6863,news-comment,news-politics,argentinas-veterans-die-of-shame-falkland-islands-war
Sep 06th, 2011 - 07:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting links on the page Margot posted.
112 Quite sad the way they have been treated. Remarkable that they still feel some kind of loyalty to a Country that turned its back on them.
Sep 06th, 2011 - 07:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0@111 Marcos,
Sep 06th, 2011 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0SOME Americans don't call our home the Falklands, Marcos.
l couldn't care less about those Americans.
#114 Until the 1930s, many Argentine text books on Georgraphy referred to Las Islas Falkland. Its still used in some places in South America.
Sep 06th, 2011 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0'Falklands' is what is used on the departure/arrival screens at Punta Arenas airport for LA990/991......................
Sep 06th, 2011 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2010/01/07/eva-perons-restless-corpse/
Sep 06th, 2011 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bit macabre but an interesting and informative link.
ElaineB: a debate about a beloved person needs adequate environment. You could be right or not, but is impossible to find out that with pimps like Conqueror and other trolls grunting around.
Sep 06th, 2011 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Try Uki Goñi if you want to reinforce your point of view, but don´t miss Tomás Eloy Martínez fictional novel if you want to understand the emotional issues about her.
Or dig more and try true historians.
BTW, compare the common british citizen ignorance about the nazism of some of their royals and politicians during WW2, for understanding the common perception of Perón and Evita during the post war.
Remember that UK appreciated Argentina neutrality during the war in order to be supplied, but the US demonized Perón just looking for american hegemony.
So public opinion resisted what was perceived as an attack to our nation, more than an ideologic contest between fascism and democracy. It was a great yankee mistake, it`s fair to acknowledge that UK tried to intermediate between both countries.
Conqueror, take a look on Victoria`s secret sexual life before opening your speaking orifice. You should lazily find data just at BBC!
@118
Sep 06th, 2011 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Victoria`s secret sexual life before opening your speaking orifice...... Can he talk through his ass? Amazing !!
119
Sep 06th, 2011 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Obviously is not “Victorias`s Secret sexual life”, dear Pomo. Just a gentle hindu captain during a puritan age.
About the origin of his speaking...something as “self-demostrated” judging the output.
@120 dear Pomo ..... jajajaja!!!
Sep 06th, 2011 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@118 Thanks for the recommendations.
Sep 06th, 2011 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, I am well aware of the Royal's links with Nazi's. There was absolutely no appetite, or money, for another war with Germany before WW11 and there was not a small amount of support for Hitler. In fact, a very large loan was being prepared to support the Nazi's activities. Of course, that all changed and we know how it ended.
I still do not agree that articles posted on this site cannot be debated robustly. If you are a regular reader you will know how many (but not all) Argentine contributors do not hold back on their negative opinions of other and like to lace their posts with personal insults. So, they can hardly play thin-skinned when a public and political figure is being discussed.
Censorship is anathema to me so I will continue to post as and where I wish within the rules of the board. But this thread seems to have run its' course.
ElaineB, the new Anne Boleyn?
Sep 06th, 2011 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Conqueror, Typhoon, Harrier61(Brian Riches), What happen? Are you OK? you are so quiet today...I have to admit that you are an ugly, scary looking Brit...
Sep 06th, 2011 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Elaine
Sep 06th, 2011 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Evita wasnt campeona of the poors, (champion) thats for sports ,at school you are abanderada, that would mean supporter or defender (you dont have a word for that exactly)
Mother of the poor was Mother Teresa of Calcuta
Evita did not only asistencialism but took intelligent political decissions because she worked in a ministry of social development
Little things I dont like of her.
Isabelita instead was really a bad politician and not intelligent at all. (3rd wife of Perón in charge of government when he died).
@118 Why do you have to bring up your mother's business. I don't believe in such mucky subjects.
Sep 06th, 2011 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@124 I do believe that, living in a land of war criminals, poofs and gutless cowards, you should watch your mouth.
@126 You should change your face, many in here think you talk from your rear end after reading your comments...and watching your ugly portrait.
Sep 06th, 2011 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you got a picture of him, Marcos? lf so, why?
Sep 06th, 2011 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course Isolde.
Sep 07th, 2011 - 02:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://media.photobucket.com/image/ugly%20brit/regjr32/ugly-dog.jpg?o=9
123
Sep 07th, 2011 - 09:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Na, Elaine never loses head, more like an Elizabeth 1.
She wopped the Spanish as well.
What a good looking dog, Marcos. ls it yours?
Sep 07th, 2011 - 09:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0@131
Sep 07th, 2011 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If it is, must be true what they say about Dogs and their owners
No Isolde :-) Is actually a mix of Conqueror and Stick.
Sep 07th, 2011 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0About musuems 27 commnet Elaine I recommend you
Sep 08th, 2011 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.malba.org.ar or bellas artes in Bs As
but I prefer dinosaurios, in some of them kids can go and get to spend a night with them
www.interpatagonia.com/paseos/carmen_funes/ en Plaza Huincul Neuquén
www.interpatagonia.com/paseos/museo_eferuglio/ en Trelew Chubut
www.interpatagonia.com/paseos/ernestobachmann/ en El Chocón Neuquén
I usually pop in to both when I am in the city. The MALBA has some reasonable exhibitions from time to time. The Bellas Artes is very poor though sometimes the local artists they display on the upper floor are interesting. In Buenos Aires I would recommend local art galleries and studios over the museums. There are plenty of other great experiences to enjoy in BsAs.
Sep 09th, 2011 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I did enjoy the MAAM museum in Salta.
Thanks anyway!
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