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Clarin says it’s time for Argentina to disclose Malvinas war documents

Tuesday, October 4th 2011 - 06:49 UTC
Full article 28 comments

Buenos Aires daily Clarin in an editorial asks for the Argentine government to release and disclose documents to public scrutiny, referred to the Argentine landing in the Falklands/Malvinas conflict in 1982 since next 2 April 2012, thirty years would have elapsed. Read full article

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  • Redhoyt

    “Further more self determination of the Islands is in the agenda in spite of the diplomatic efforts to confront it”.

    A hint of reality creeping in ??

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 07:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JustinKuntz

    “to distract us from grave domestic issues”

    And still is.

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 07:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Argie

    I do not agree with Clarin. I can't see why should we declassify anything that would help the other side to know better where our flaws were and possibly still are.

    May I quote here Mr Churchill? 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last' and also 'We are masters of the unsaid words, but slaves of those we let slip out'.

    The crocodile fed on us, but the large chunk it spat constitutes what our country is today with its goods and bads.

    Please Mrs. Kirchner, despite all the ideas or hatred you may hold about our military I'd ask from you, with due respect, to block any move that would end in declassifying any Secrets of War, no matter where they come from.

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zethee

    “I do not agree with Clarin. I can't see why should we declassify anything that would help the other side to know better where our flaws were and possibly still are. ”

    We found your flaws during the war.

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • dab14763

    hmmm. Haven't Argentines on forums like this one often accused the British government of keeping war secrets?

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JustinKuntz

    #5 Often, we do point out the Freedom of Information Act 2000, but they rarely let the facts get in the way of conspiracy theories. The Falklands files are available on the MoD website.

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Searinox

    1# “A hint of reality creeping in ??”
    Do i have to remember you that the UK extended the malvinas war documents from 2020 to 2080?
    why do they extended it? please you are so fool...
    Besides i finnaly sees that this “news press” shows jsut a few things but not all...
    why omit information?

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Argie

    Zethee in #4. Our flaw was just one, but huge enough and disastrous: We were too näive to believe that the English would ever surrender. Had they bent to Corporal Hitler, the guttersnipe? Need I quote Mr. Churchill again?

    Cheers!

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JustinKuntz

    #7 I refer you to #6

    The 90 year closure orders ceased to exist 11 years ago, I repeat 11 years ago, in case you missed it, 11 years ago. Did I mention 11 years ago and the Freedom of Information Act 2000?

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • J.A. Roberts

    “I can't see why should we declassify anything that would help the other side to know better where our flaws were and possibly still are.”

    Are you suggesting CFK closes the stable door after the horse has bolted? I think they UK knows pretty well what your flaws are, and they also know that your flaws of today are vastly larger than they were in 1982...

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Argie

    10. Well, JayAy, doors should always be kept closed for the sake of good order and, btw, the horse that bolted away has not left the area...

    And as a matter of fact, you have also developed flaws due to Defence Cuts which some believe is putting the UK forces to their knees, perhaps even to soon 'adore' Richard, here and there.

    To know better, click on http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/defence/8799369/Defence-cuts-Our-forces-brought-to-their-knees.html

    If Britain had learned from Mr. Enoch Powell's books, it would still be the great and powerful country that she was. But you signed for the Community and there you are... Anyways, that was not the first time that Britain waived the Rules, nor it will be the last...

    Cheers!

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    And so the Argentine government continues to keep secrets from its own people? Wonder why? Could it be that the documents would prove that Galtieri knew that the Falkland Islands were properly British? Could it be that the documents would show, beyond a doubt, that the only reason for the invasion of the Falkland Islands was to divert attention from internal domestic problems? Could it be that the documents would confirm the intention to attack Chile? Might it be that the documents would reveal Argentine intentions to attack other countries? Like Brazil and/or Uruguay. Could it be that the documents would confirm that Argentine governments lie about everything, cheat everyone, steal from anyone if they think they can get away with it? Would that be a shock for the people of Argentina? Or would it simply demonstrate that Argentina's governments are no different to its people? Liars, cheats and thieves!

    But why should we Brits care? We know what Argentines are. But the rest of the world has to be shown that Argentina has lied, cheated and stolen for the last 201 years. Also that they finally came up against a nation they could not best. Nor will ever be able to best. Because, if it comes to it, every British adult will come to the defence of the Falkland Islands. 40 million to face down and destroy 27 million? And a whole new British Overseas Territory when the Hispano-Italians have been “eliminated”. Indigenous people will get full rights instead of being dispossessed in their own land. What name will the new country have? No idea. A decision for the indigenous people. Because Britain has learned. And the Hispano-Italians haven't!

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    soon the election will be over,
    your leader will regain control,[ then nothing]
    you to will learn abt bullshit promises before an election, she promises to everything, from the falklands to rubber dolls,
    after the election, when she is safe, she will do nothing, the whole thing will just die, once she is elected, she has no reason to either back it up, or inforce it, wanna bet,,

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Argie

    Conqueror in #12. Your U-boot name suggests you attack while underwater, and also that English is not your first language. Do you dare to tell us your nationality, should you have one?

    All governments keep secrets off their peoples' knowledge, and this is to protect national interest in certain areas, mainly security. Children of 10 and more know this. If states kept no secrets, the spy profession would'nt exist and no 007's would be around. Have you ever kept a secret from your wife?

    Argentina may have acquired a reputation (especially since 1943) but Britain's, at least in connection with land disposession, natives' exploitation, theft of antiques and stolen natural resources, is much older and much worst.

    However, their ocuppation of the Falkland-Malvinas arcipelago, was not their exclusive fault, but also that of American USN Capt. Silas Duncan who by cannonfire from USN Lexington, a frigate under his command, destroyed in 1832 all Argentine installations, sunk a few boats at anchor and took aboard almost all Argentines as prisoners, including the Governor Mr. Jules Vernet who, later on, were freed in Buenos Ayres.

    The Argentine Government of those days (Gral. Juan Manuel Rosas) is also to blame, because it didn't react by sending immediately a new party to ocuppy the vacated premises and rebuild its defences, so when the English immigrants arrived next year, they were helped to unload their luggage by a few gauchos that had escaped because they were not near when Duncan attacked.

    Do you think that the teritories now known as the United Kingdom of Great britain should be given back to the descendants of the peoples who lived there before the Saxons in 1066, or, better still before them, i.e. Picts, Gissa, Jutes, Deorssige, Cydas, &c and throw the Wealas away?

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    1066 thats a bit to far back dont you think,
    besides in 1066 south america was possably a peacefull place to live, untill the spannish came a calling,
    im certain that by the 11 century british was british
    11 century, 12 century, 13th, century 14th century 15th century
    16th century, 17th century, 18th century, 19th century, 20th century
    and the 21st century, all british, were they not,
    //////////////////////////////
    would you like to start of the argentine century
    or shall we start with the 19th century, not very clever was it,
    ///////////////////////////////
    but as you now blame it on the british and the americans and the argentines, no wonder you may be confused, try again .

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JustinKuntz

    Without excusing the Lexington raid, Duncan did not bombard the settlement. He blew up the powder store and spiked the guns to stop his ship being bombarded at anchor. He arrested the 7 senior members of Vernet's settlement on charges of piracy, the rest he offered safe passage off the islands, which many were grateful to take, declaring they had been misled as to conditions on the island. Vernet was not arrested, on account he was in Buenos Aires at the time. The 7 arrested were released without facing trial on the orders of Commodore Rodgers.

    The British didn't arrive in numbers till 1841, the people remaining were Vernet's employees, in fact Vernet's settlement persisted till August 1833 when it came crashing down as a result of the Gaucho murders.

    And the reason why those guys helped the British on arrival was because Vernet had repeatedly asked for a British garrison, as the Republic of Buenos Aires couldn't provide one.

    You do have a grain of truth, Rosas cared not for the Falklands, he wouldn't have bothered protesting were it not for the insistence of Manuel Moreno.

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Beef

    Argie : Your flaws are obvious and the declassifying of 1982 documents would not reveal anything we don't already know about your current military flaws,

    You have no functioning amphibious landing craft.
    You have very few functional fighter aircraft. Those that are functional are outdated.
    Your armed forces are poorly trained.
    You have no match against far superior naval forces, both surface and sub-sea.
    Your armed forces are not battle hardened.
    You are not seriously interested in the Islands, they are merely a diversion.

    Declassify if you want it changes not the past, present or future.

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anti-Fascist

    I think it is type to prosecute the Argentines for their war crimes on the Falkland Islands in 1982, the false white flag incidents, the shooting of POW's, the illegal imprisonment of the civilian population and the invasion itself. Britain has kept quite on this for fear of siring things up but Argentina is constantly stirring the pot. There is nothing to gain from staying quite on these crimes any more. It is a matter of international justice that they are pursued and the criminals brought to face justice.

    Oct 04th, 2011 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Rhaurie-Craughwell

    “I do not agree with Clarin. I can't see why should we declassify anything that would help the other side to know better where our flaws were and possibly still are”

    eeer that you completely and utterly underestimated the capabilities of the British armed forces and political resolve of the British govt.....A feat which Argentina still continues to do to this day....30 years later and you still think that but shouting loud enough and shooting yourselves in the foot you might just get islands psssh!

    Oct 05th, 2011 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anti-Fascist

    54 so_far

    Britain has never murdered tens of thousands of our own people.

    Your examples of Iraq and Afghanistan fall far short of proving we do. First of all in the case of Iraq and Afghanistan we were at war, people there were not murdered in COLD BLOOD, they were enemy soldiers or terrorist insurgents. That is different to them being political dissidents to a military regime.

    In the case of Bloody Sunday - GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT. It is a FACT that the OIRA opened fire first. This was proved by the FIRST AND SECOND inquiry. What happened next in the SECOND judicial inquiry was politically expedient.

    Bloody Sunday was a mistake, we have accepted that, mistakes happen in war. TWELVE shot dead in HOT BLOOD is slightly different from your Military juntas FIFTY THOUSAND MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD.

    We are compensating the victims families and rightfully so. I have yet to see the IRA compensate one of their hundreds of victims families. It is not likely to happen.

    Your political dissidents killed no one. They just happened not to believe in FASCISM. That led to their murder. Their murder - the crime not of you posting here want to accept was a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY!

    As for Britain Empire, we have to go back a long way - to a different age, the age of post WW1 army- to find a serious abuse of force. The worst was the Amritsar massacre. Again it was not in Cold Blood, it was in the heat of the moment, not excusable but in a different age and hardly comparable to MURDERING FIFTY THOUSAND OF YOUR OWN PEOPLE IN COLD BLOOD because they happen to think differently!

    Oct 05th, 2011 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @14 You are a silly boy. Are you not studying history at your university? HMS Conqueror (S48) was the Churchill-class nuclear-powered fleet submarine that put two torpedoes into the ARA General Belgrano on 2 May 1982. A fine deed in the best traditions of the Royal Navy. How unfortunate that Task Groups 79.1, 79.2 and 79.4 ran away. She might have been able to make a clean sweep. Oh well, maybe next time.

    Your inability to discern my nationality prompts a few comments. Such as - Do you think I'm going to tell you? Daring me is so juvenile. Your education needs improving. But, most importantly - I'm a Boogie Man. Tell your kids truthful stories about me and they'll have nightmares every night for a week.

    You are right about Argentina's reputation. Just behind Nazi Germany I'd say. Not that you should be upset. You did try. Murdering tens of thousands of people, invading other people's territory, starting wars. It's a proud history.

    And, actually, the descendants of many of the people of the territories called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland are still in those territories. Although you're getting the Saxons confused with the Normans. The Saxons started arriving in the fifth century when the Romans left.

    Oct 05th, 2011 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anti-Fascist

    54 so_far

    Britain has never murdered tens of thousands of our own people.

    Your examples of Iraq and Afghanistan fall far short of proving we do. First of all in the case of Iraq and Afghanistan we were at war, people there were not murdered in COLD BLOOD, they were enemy soldiers or terrorist insurgents. That is different to them being political dissidents to a military regime.

    In the case of Bloody Sunday - GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT. It is a FACT that the OIRA opened fire first. This was proved by the FIRST AND SECOND inquiry. What happened next in the SECOND judicial inquiry was politically expedient.

    Bloody Sunday was a mistake, we have accepted that, mistakes happen in war. TWELVE shot dead in HOT BLOOD is slightly different from your Military juntas FIFTY THOUSAND MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD.

    We are compensating the victims families and rightfully so. I have yet to see the IRA compensate one of their hundreds of victims families. It is not likely to happen.

    Your political dissidents killed no one. They just happened not to believe in FASCISM. That led to their murder. Their murder - the crime not of you posting here want to accept was a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY!

    As for Britain Empire, we have to go back a long way - to a different age, the age of post WW1 army- to find a serious abuse of force. The worst was the Amritsar massacre. Again it was not in Cold Blood, it was in the heat of the moment, not excusable but in a different age and hardly comparable to MURDERING FIFTY THOUSAND OF YOUR OWN PEOPLE IN COLD BLOOD because they happen to think differently

    Oct 05th, 2011 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Argie

    Time will tell

    Oct 05th, 2011 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    21 Conqueror

    You say:
    - I'm a Boogie Man........ Tell your kids truthful stories about me and they'll have nightmares every night for a week………

    I say:
    Nope, your name is Brian Riches and your address and email are recorded in Dad’s Army’s Handsome and Valiant German Submarine Commanders Lizt…….
    Just below Pike’s Name…………. :-)))

    Oct 05th, 2011 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Wireless

    Yup our forces are on our knees, we only spend £43.8 Billion a year on our military, it should be a lot more; but then if we're on our knees, where is Argentina with her budget of £1.6 Billion for her military?

    Might I suggest you're face down with your arse in the air?

    Oct 05th, 2011 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • SamSalzman

    Maybe it needs to publish why it held a hundred civilians hostage for a month in subhuman conditions, beat up civilians for using a radio, placed artillery near occupied civilian houses, used a hospital ship to carry arms and illuminate a boat of SAS men not attacking it and failed to house train its soldiers and make them understand that when you need to take a dump, you use this amazing thing we have in the developed world, known to some as a toilet.

    Oct 05th, 2011 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Philippe

    Clarin: you don't need to blow your instrument! We already know everything about fascistic Argentina's motives and military “feats” during the Falklands war of aggression. More books like the new one are irrelevant, and new documents would be more trash than already available. Just read the sensible works of petiso Martin Balza, and that is enough!

    Philippe

    Oct 06th, 2011 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Artillero601

    @27

    Martin Balza?? sensible work? what are you talking about?

    Oct 06th, 2011 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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