MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
The Falkland Islands in search for a voice
By John Fowler - In the first of a planned series of extended articles written exclusively for the Penguin News web site, Deputy Editor John Fowler examines the causes of the frustration felt by many Falkland Islanders in the face of the recent plethora of statements issuing from the Argentine propaganda machine Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesI had to look up Alfred and the Cakes to know what the article is talking about. I don't think that particular story has sunk deep into the national consciousness of the English. Try Agincourt and the two fingered salute.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Alfred's burning of the cakes is a well known historical “fact” in early English history. If you're ever down in Somerset you can visit a memorial to the event at a little place called Athelney - down on the Somerset Levels. Alfred was the most famous King of Wessex. Whether he actually did burn the cakes - well it's a nice story!
Nov 10th, 2011 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0I hope that Princess Anne enjoyed her trip to Argentina.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Arthur and the Knights of the round table may have been a better example
Nov 10th, 2011 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dorian, you're a plank, and a thick one too.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If I can mention a couple of things for the attention of Falkland Islanders and those of us elsewhere who support you, I was immensely surprised that the Overseas Territories Consultation set up by the Foreign & Commonwealth Office did not draw more comments from the Islands. http://ukoverseasterritories.readandcomment.com/
Nov 10th, 2011 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course it may be that Britain is already doing everything the Islanders could hope for, but somehow I doubt it. No-one can, or should, deny the Islanders the right to stand on their own two feet, but that doesn't mean you have to stand all the time. Are there some who might welcome an occasional sit-down? Sitting down doesn't mean you can't stand up again. Let's be blunt. You Islanders are 8,000 miles away. But there are 60 million plus of us and about 3,000 of you. Don't believe the rubbish you get from South America that the UK is sinking into the abyss. We aren't. You are our people. Not in the sense of ownership, but in the sense that we are the same. You won't back down and neither will we. So if you need or want something, why not ask? Would you hesitate to ask your family for help?
The other thing that bothers me is your young people and the “foreigners” amongst you. I can understand that a relatively small community such as the Falklands cannot provide facilities to match those of major cities. But some of your young people seem to be so avid for such “excitement” that they would like to be Argentine. At 14 or 15 years of age, one cannot expect a young person to understand 1982. Except in terms of what they are taught in their schools and families. Incidentally, if you read through the FCO site, I do not believe hitting a child round the head is the best way to start a reasoned discussion! Are you explaining to your children what it was like to be invaded? To have every facet of your life overturned? As for your “foreigners” I leave them to you. Just watch what they get to say to your children!
Just a post to get in on the articles and the subsequent comments.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What an excellent article. It should be made mandatory reading for Argentinos of any age. I am sure they will learn something of the resolve of British People in the face of gangsters such as their Government.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I suspect that America will soon get fed up of Jorge Arguello's fantasies over the mythical isles. Having read some of the drivel he has spouted over the last few months I cannot see him lasting one year in the job.
I sincerely hope you guys can rise your voice to the occasion and start giving some tit-for-tat. How about reminding Argentines that actually the colonization of the far South came from the Falklands? Fitz Roy's HMS Beagle first reached the channel in 1833. Much of the history of the city was described in Lucas Bridges' book “Uttermost part of the World”, the word Ushuaia first appeared in reports from the South American Mission Society in England. The British missionary Waite Hockin Stirling became the first European to live in Ushuaia when he stayed with the Yámana people between the 18th of January and mid-September 1869. In 1870 more British missionaries arrived to establish a small settlement. The following year the first marriage was performed. During 1872, 36 baptisms and 7 marriages and the first European birth (Thomas Despard Bridges) in Tierra del Fuego were registered. The first house constructed in Ushuaia was a pre-assembled 3 room home prepared in the Falkland Islands in 1870 for Reverend Thomas Bridges. One room was for the Bridges family, a second was for a Yámana married couple, while the third served as the chapel.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0During 1873 Juan and Clara Lawrence, the first Argentine citizens to visit Ushuaia, arrived to teach school. That same year the Argentine President Julio Argentino Roca promoted the establishment of a penal colony for re-offenders, modeled after one in Tasmania, Australia, in an effort to secure permanent residents from Argentina. What if based on this the Falkland Islands claim Tierra del Fuego? It only sounds fair to me!
this article is a strong contender for the most biased piece of the year.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0i suppose more than half the world has been “indoctrinated” to support Argentina's claim to the Malvinas (including the United States).
You don't have to read Argentine children's school books to figure out that Argentina has been claiming the island for 200 years for reasons we all know about that have nothing to do with some pride that resulted from being expelled from that piece of territory. Rather, that historical fact only contributes to the larger claim.
Frankly, this article is hilarious. 2000 sheep herders and fisherman feeling impotent that they do not have their own State and a voice in world affairs.
Get real people! The UK spends more money on you that it does in the whole city of London in terms of Defense and services plus you get UK citizenship with access to what the UK has to offer in terms of education, labour, culture and what not and you moan about not being able to voice your opinion on world affairs.
This is such an abuse to the whole concept of “self determination” - which obviously you folks picked from the UK - which is precisely what Argentina and more than half the world feel needs to be negotiated.
“2000 sheep herders and fisherman feeling impotent that they do not have their own State and a voice in world affairs” - Troneas I see you are an advocate of the the crushing of the little guy.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 03:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You don't have to read Argentine children's school books to figure out that Argentina has been claiming the island for 200 years” - Troneas, you may have been claiming the islands for 200 years, but we have been living here for 200 years...
“Get real people! The UK spends more money on you that it does in the whole city of London in terms of Defense” - Troneas, I do love it when Argentines make things up! Back up your statement with numbers! UK defense of FI costs £70m per year, the Met Police in London cost £2,033,000,000 in 1998/1999.
Idiot.
Don't know about Princess Anne in Argentina but Prince William is off to the Falkland Islands early 2012.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@11
Nov 10th, 2011 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. I don't advocate the crushing of the little guy. I advocate they need to get real with their demands and the situation they find themselves in. Argentina has said many times their lifestyle would be respected under and Argentine flag. But they want their own State... The barriers with Latam are only increasing and they'll end up like Cuba on their own (or worse) but yet they moan about their self-determination.
2. Doesn't change the fact that Argentinas claim is not about a single military episode in 1833. And no one wants to to leave your home.
3. Except that London citizens pay taxes that make up for that cost. Do you pay taxes that make up for those 70m a year?
I hope Prince WIlliam enjoys his trip to Malvinas, Argentina, in 2012.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You don't have to read Argentine children's school books to figure out that Argentina has been claiming the island for 200 years”
Nov 10th, 2011 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No Argentina has only been claiming the islands since the mid 20th century. The claim was promoted by Nazi propagandists among the largely German-trained Argentine army during the 1939-1945 war & continued by General Peron who adopted the claim, as he frankly admitted at the time, as a means of uniting the diverse races which made up the population of modern Argentina. General Peron was prepared to admit privately, in his usual jovial manner, that he personally did not believe that the Argentine claim to the Falkland Islands or the later claim to their Dependencies was well founded.
”i suppose more than half the world has been “indoctrinated” to support Argentina's claim to the Malvinas (including the United States).“
The G77 didn't support your clam they just said that Argentina & Britain should seek a peaceful solution instead of going to war which is exactly what the UN says for every conflict.
”which is precisely what Argentina and more than half the world feel needs to be negotiated”
Frankly, this is hilarious. Argentinians feeling impotent thinking that they have the support of half the world. Still wainting for that support to show up... Still waiting....Still waiting....Still waiting....Still waiting....no sign of it yet... Still waiting....Still waiting....
@15 Nonesense. Argentina has claimed the island since their independence. They've sent Vernet who was granted the title of “First Military Political Commander” of the islands where Argentine legislation was enforced. This was early 19th century.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The G77 wants both countries to negotiate precisely because they feel Argentina has a valid claim. Otherwise they wouldn't bother.
All Latin American nations, Spain, China and some African countries give tacit support to Argentina in their claim.
Who backs up the UK? Europe and their remaining atolls across the globe.
Troneas, you got it right.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ My Islander friends:
- About your RIGHTS: Your right to keep in with your lives respecting your way of living, culture, etc.... is not in question. So don´t panic! Argentina takes all this into account. The only right that´s not acceptable is the self-determination principle.
- YOUR VOICE: You certainly do have a voice, and its heard by who should - and belive I is - concerned: the UK Government. I´m tired of listening “We´re British citizens”. As such, your “voice” is represented by you government, the British Government. So, unless you´re planning to declate the independece from the UK, your voice won´t be heard as a third party. If you believe the world shoul hear your voice better, you should ask the UK to speak up louder.
Like I said a few times before... if the world is asking both parties to sit down and talk to solve the soveringty issue, is because they believe there´s something to solve. Denying the problem doesn´t make it disapear. Sooner or later, you´ll have to face it.
Cheers!
@16, After being kicked off the islands back in the 1800's Argentina made no further official claims to the islands until the 20th century. Even Argentine maps showed the Islands as a British territory before 1946. Your entire claim is a fabrication of successive corrupt governments who wont dare take the matter to the ICJ.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The G77 wants both countries to negotiate precisely because they feel Argentina has a valid claim. Otherwise they wouldn't bother.”
They gave a diplomatic answer to the proposal put forward by Argentina. The key words they used in the response are “in accordance with the principles and goals stated in the UN Charter and the resolutions reached during the General Assembly” or in other words unless the Falkland Islanders agree to negotiations then the UN can & will do nothing.
“Who backs up the UK? Europe and their remaining atolls across the globe.”
The UK doesn't need anyone to back it up but if you want to know where the world stands on the Falklands issue then you only have to look back the last you invaded because the UN sided with Britain.
I dont believe Argentines for a second that our wishes would respected if Argentina gained control over the Falklands because...
Nov 10th, 2011 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. Argentina didnt respect the Islanders in 1982 (a very real example).
2. Argentina do not respect the Islander's wishes, culture, identity or wishes.
So stop the rubbish that Argentina would allow us to carry on as we are if they gained control, because all evidence points to contrary. And dont give us empty promises, because we know Argentina doesnt abide to treaties or agreements.
Britain wouldnt have to defend the Falklands if it wasnt for Argentina.
@19
Nov 10th, 2011 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The official declaration when Argentina took over the islands in 1982 said in no uncertain terms that the islanders way of life would be maintained.
Whatever disrespect that followed was when England invaded and hell broke loose.
If even a military government had this principle in mind sure as hell this democratic pro-human rights government would do too.
If friggin communist China kept their word with Hong-Kong there is no doubt in my mind Argentina would do too.
@ 19 M_of_FI
Nov 10th, 2011 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. Argentina didnt respect the Islanders in 1982: What do you mean? Like... appart from your wish to remain british... what else was not respected? Where civilians killed or injured perhaps?
2. Argentina do not respect the Islander's wishes, culture, identity or wishes. Do you honestly believe that? ´Cos I never heard any proposal from Argentina to change anything...
Or is it just because Argentina tried to recover the islands by the use of force?
“Argentina doesnt abide to treaties or agreements”. And the UK is an example of respecting international law, sure. (I´m being ironic this time).
“Britain wouldnt have to defend the Falklands if it wasnt for Argentina”.
After the stupid desition of 1982, I can understand this...
But I hardly believe that will ever happen again, even if Argentina wanted to, it doesn´t have the means.
I think it´s most a strategy of the UK to put Argentina as an “agresive sick nation civilized countries like the UK cannot negotiate with”. Yeah... we´re Iran.
Argentina's is internationally renowned for breaking its treaties & breaking agreements hence why foreign investment has now has dropped to only $2.4 billion. Only China seems to be sticking with you but they just got burned big time by CFK when she killed their largest ever oil acquisition. The failure of the deal to buy Argentina’s biggest oil exporter means Cnooc, China’s largest offshore energy explorer, may struggle to meet its production growth targets next year, according to Gordon Kwan. China is not very happy with CFK.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree!.....will Argetina respect the Falklands' way of life, culture...etc.! if they fly their flag? I seriously doubt that!
Nov 10th, 2011 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The outmost important issue is that there are people living in the Falklands and they should be respected.
However, there are two sides of the story. Everyone has their own ideology and perceive conflict in their own way.
As an american, I personally would not label Argentina as an “agressive sick nation”. What is sad is that the Falklanders are feeling the economic and political pressure from Argentina, as malicious as it may seem.....it is going to work in the long run. It is like a mini-cold-war, economic warfare, it forces the UK to maintain additional budget for the islands, it keeps the islander worried all the time....etc. What Argentina should know is the absolute British determination, resolute, perseverance....in like flint! Had they known it in 1982...nothing would have happened!
@23
Nov 10th, 2011 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Could you care to explain why you think Argentina would not respect their way of life? I'm sure its backed up by your vast knowledge of Argentine culture and history...
And Malicious is what your government has been doing to Cuba for the past 50 years. A total economic embargo which has achieved nothing but the suffering of the inhabitants purely on a political ideology. Malicious is what your government has done in Irak - dropping bombs all over the place causing more suffering and pain again to satisfy a pure ideological belief.
So don't come here lecturing about malice.
And this is not about mere ideological principles, or theories. This is about a territorial claim dating 200 years back. Nothing YOU would understand since all the US has done is take over territory in the same manner: New Mexico, Texas, California, Cuba, Philippines....
And what Argentina should know is that the Brits go crying to Uncle Sam and their European buddies when they are in trouble, as they did in 1982.
“And what Argentina should know is that the Brits go crying to Uncle Sam and their European buddies when they are in trouble, as they did in 1982”
Nov 10th, 2011 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re-writing history again I see. Britain fought alone in 1982 no other countries were involved. Our allies (real Allies not the paper ones Argentina has) all offered help but it wasn't needed to kick your forces off our island. The only country still crying about it is Argentina.
@20 “Whatever disrespect that followed was when England invaded and hell broke loose. ” Do you mean in 1982? If so, all hell broke loose when Argentina invaded the Falklands. Dont forget the Islanders (like myself) consider that Britain liberated us from Argentina. Because in reality they did.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@21...The Argentine forces changed the official name of the Falklands, the name of streets, the name of the town and settlements, changed street signs, changed which side of the road you drive on, changed the language and enforced a curfew, all against the Islanders wishes. Also, lets not forget that Argentina invading the Falklands was also against the wishes of the Islanders....that is what Argentina did in 1982 against the Islanders wishes. Lets also not forget Dowling who regularly imprisoned islanders (including my members of my family) and the Argentines also locked up islanders at Goose Green and sent people to the West and locked them away. Bill Luxton, the recent MLA, was also deported from the Falklands (his home) to the UK by the Argentines. Is that enough evidence to satisfy you that in 1982 the Argentines didnt respect the Islanders wishes and way of life?
@ 24, Argentina would not respect the Islanders wishes or way of life, because they currently dont respect the Islanders wishes and way of life. We want to remain British, and we use self-determination to ensure this. Argentina's method is to try an deny the human rights of the Islanders...how is this not respecting the Islanders wishes? We want to remain how we are, Argentina wants to change this, how is this respecting the Islanders wishes.
As someone said...3rd world nations think in terms of land and 1st world nations think in terms of people. Argentina think about the land, Britain think about the people.
Enough evidence for you?
@25
Nov 10th, 2011 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They got satellite and intelligence support from the US, plus the missile codes from the French which Thatcher went over to cry for.
@26
You cannot compare or use as a valid reason the behaviour of the government (military and illegitimate at that) during war time to that of a democratic and peaceful one together with a peaceful solution to the problem.
“3rd world nations think in terms of land and 1st world nations think in terms of people. Argentina think about the land, Britain think about the people.”
I'm sure the USA and the UK had the best interest of the people at heart when they shipped them over to Guantanamo Bay and who are still detained and as far as we know undergoing torture without a formal charge or trial.
I am sure they will also pay compensation to the families they killed and destroyed in Iraq in an illegal war condemned by the international community.
#13 Troneas. “Argentina has said many times their lifestyle would be respected under and Argentine flag.”
Nov 10th, 2011 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So that makes it OK? Let me ask you a question. Would you be OK with a UK flag flying over Buenos Aires if we respected the Argentine “Way of life” and allowed you to live as normal?
#21 “Argentina didnt respect the Islanders in 1982: What do you mean? Like... appart from your wish to remain british... what else was not respected? Where civilians killed or injured perhaps?”
Let's take a look then. Firstly, and least of all, there was the fact that your soldiers took over private homes and defecated on the floor. The Post Office was used as a large cesspit. I can train a dog to behave better than that, but apparently not an Argie.
Secondly there was Major Patricio Dowling, who gained a reputation for brutality. Islanders were forced to sell goods from their shops to Argentines whether they liked it or not, and those considered to be anti-Argentine were deported (take the example of Bill Luxton).
The Islanders' way of life was not respected at all- the road signs were changed and they were made to drive on the right instead of the left. Then there was the placing of an artillery battery near civilian houses, resulting in the death of three of the inhabitants. There was the arrest of at least one person for listening to the BBC world service after the Argentines thought he was sending clandestine radio messages.
But the worst abuse of all was to the 114 inhabitants of Goose Green who were shut in a local hall for several weeks. In that hall there were two toilets which did not work, little food, little clean water, and no shelter from battle. These islanders were apparently considered a threat of possible resistance work. Yet they included small children and old people, who obviously were a real threat.
These are the abuses which you were wondering about... unless you would consider this Gestapo like behaviour to not be abusive?
@28
Nov 10th, 2011 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is a sovereign nation of 40 million people.
The Malvinas is a long disputed colonial territory with 2000 fisherman occupying said territory 480 km off the Argentinean coast an inside Argentina's continental shelf.
I'm sure some indian tribe in the Amazon would also like to wave their own flag or totem but that won't sit well with the Brazilian government.
Likewise I might also want “self-determination” and declare my house my own State and be able to voice my concerns in the United Nations. I might even name my sister Foreign Minister.
And again the same old stories arise,
Nov 10th, 2011 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What if , why when how who , you reap what you sow, so sow very carefully, because you and only you will have to live with the consequences
The point is, you are at this moment in time, British, and this is entirely voluntary,.
Their for the interest to the outside world, is British full stop, perhaps one should not be to anxious to gain independence, at any price, with all the problems and attitude from Argentina, I think you should let the British deal with the problem, on your behalf as best they can,
The Falklands people , should, like any county in the UK, have a voice, an MP, you say what you want, they try to give it to you within reason, you will never get everything you want until you rule yourselves, and that day will come, but the present a united front against Argentina must be the priority, Argentina must be left in no doubt that the Falklands are British, you are British and the British will defend you, even at the point of going to war, until such times as Argentina can be persuaded [or other] to relinquish and give up all claims to the Falklands forever,
If and when this is achieved, then and only then can you stand up as Falkland islanders and of your own free will ask for and receive independence in your own right,
Possibly with an agreement for the British government to retain military training facilities in the Falklands, for defence purposes,, then the future is yours,
But at this time, being independence with an aggressive Argentina not far away is a no no,
To be warmed and conned into thinking that to go it alone [now] is good for you, and Argentina will respect all your rights is a fallacy that you except at your own peril,
Never always believe all you read, the government should do more to counteract their lies,
And rightly so, you should push this point harder, but I think that for the foreseeable future maybe 20 or 40 years , fell proud to be British and represent your selves as such, and ignore
28 SamSalzman, You wrote “But the worst abuse of all was to the 114 inhabitants of Goose Green who were shut in a local hall for several weeks. In that hall there were two toilets which did not work, little food, little clean water, and no shelter from battle”
Nov 10th, 2011 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sam, this Kelper was there...
” -In there they kept us, the bastards“, Allie spits defiantly. We are standing outside a tin roofed timber building that has a bell tower on it which might allow it to be used as a church in case somebody wanted to pray for redemption, but was considered so unlikely it was turned into a bar and social club for the majority who were pretty much certain they were in Hell anyway.
-How long were you in there Allie? I ask.
-Over two months, he replies.
-Terrible............terrible, I sympathise.
-Oh, it wasn't so bad, he sniffs.
-How do you mean?
-Food was good - all Argy stuff and they gave us plenty of Beer and fags.
-Oh, right, I answer then ask. ”But they wouldn't let you out would they and you couldn't get washed or use proper toilets and things“?
-Who told you that?
-It was in the newspapers.
-Load of bollocks, he sneers. ”They kept us in there at night because of the bloody English sending planes over to bomb the airfield but in the daytime we went back to our houses”.
-I thought your homes had been taken over by the Argentinians?
Some of them had. I had a couple of officers in my house but I liked them.
Real polite they were and they gave me all sorts of stuff……………”
said territory 480 km off the Argentinean coast an inside Argentina's continental shelf.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Isla Martín García is an Argentine island off the Río de la Plata coast of Uruguay. The enclave island is within the boundaries of Uruguayan waters
Come On People! Australia and Bahamas need persons, YOU HAVE STRONG BENEFITS AS A PART OF COMMONWEALTH, you have an incredible future for your childs. These lands are waiting for you!!!!
Nov 10th, 2011 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 32:
Nov 10th, 2011 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Isla Martín García? Hahaha...
Well, yeah, its closer to Uruguay... But BOTH countries are pretty close to the island... and the limit has to do with two countries sharing a river...
The distance difference in the Malvinas case is quite more relevant, don´t you think?... The Atlantic Ocean is in between the UK and Malvinas.
C´mon!
“ the Falkland islands is an actual country” lol So this democraically elected country will allow immigration from its neighbours?????????????
Nov 10th, 2011 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So Repsol-YPF will be allowed to tender for oil????????????????
What a piece of fantasy even London will be embarrased by this
Well, yeah, its closer to Uruguay
Nov 10th, 2011 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's in Uruguayan waters
C´mon!
I just shake my head at the misguided comments. It is so ingrained in their mindset. They say they will respect the islanders wishes, but ironically for them to respect our wishes (in their ideal situation) they first have to disrespect the islanders wishes. But they cant see it. All they want is land.
Nov 10th, 2011 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0O gara and Troneas, would you ever move to the Falklands and make this your home? Or are you just regurgitating Argentine national rhetoric so you can add to your countries borders
It is just lost on me that one country's national pride trumps the human rights of 3000 people.
You just cant make up the hypocrisy that comes from Argentines. It is just baffling. So much twisted logic.
O gara, many Chileans, Argentines, Peruvians and some Brazilians and Uruguayans currently live and work in the Falklands, and they achieved this through immigration. Please check the facts before you make assumptions.
You honestly have to love some of the assumptions Argentines make, they try and act like they know more about the Falklands than people who actually live there...just another part of they erratic and illogical behaviour.
Trousers - you need to learn a little history. Then you'll see that Argentina has no claim at all. Try - http://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/
Nov 10th, 2011 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0O'GaGa - thankyou, I was waiting for some idiot like you to raise the subject again. Emmigration is restricted for one simple reason. The UN requires it to be restricted.
“1980 - December 11th, United Nations General Assembly Resolution 35/118 adopts a 'Plan of Action for the Full Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples.'
Annex – 9. 'Member State shall adopt the necessary measures to discourage or prevent the systematic influx of outside immigrants and settlers into Territories under colonial domination, which disrupts the demographic composition of those Territories and may constitute a major obstacle to the genuine exercise of the right to self determination and independence by the people of those Territories.”
http://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/
Quite right M- ingrained since 1934 when Palacios made it a law for propaganda to be aimed at children.
@ 36: What?
Nov 11th, 2011 - 01:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Alas, if Argentina was not such a weak country, they could force the British out, and take the Falkland Islands. However, Argentina being a weak powerless country would not stand a chance against the UK. All they can do is talk, talk talk. Frankly, their threats are long passed becoming a joke.
Nov 11th, 2011 - 03:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0...and again someone brings up the Martin Garcia case.
Nov 11th, 2011 - 03:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Martin Garcia was NEGOTIATED by both countries; despite being historically a part of Argentina; and never ever settled by a single Uruguayan.
Still, Argentina gave up claims on Juncal AND committed itself not to use them for any military purpose.
Trousers - you need to learn a little history. Then you'll see that Argentina has no claim at all. Try - falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/
Nov 11th, 2011 - 04:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Another,LIE by our Lordtonto(imbecile to the core)
I Travel every year to Argentina and I just love it. Last time they were playing a tv ad where they picture the islands under Arg flag and their planes were landing, the community and media were bilingual and cultures and breakfast were respected...All my Argentinians friends viewers...all crying of emotion!!!
Nov 11th, 2011 - 05:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am assuming if you show that one to falklanders they will also cry...but not in the same way...Lol
Cheers.
and again someone brings up the Martin Garcia case.
Nov 11th, 2011 - 10:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yep, to blow the Argie proximty old chestnut out of the water
Argentinia is only 300 miles away :-)
(#)41 / (#) 44 Amigos
Nov 11th, 2011 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Continental Shelf is a technical item especially on economic
interests like fishing , oil drilling ..etc not political subject.
Imagine a line between Mar del Plata and Punta del Esta ,
the outside of this line( ocean side) is on Continental Shelf interests,but
the inside of this line (river side) is not on Continental Shelf definition.
Islas Malvinas is on the South America Continental Shelf,in technically
in the Argentina territory sea, means that
They recent oil drilling attempts and fishing activities limit ranges
must be legalized by way of UN.
Another example there between Ireland-- Britannia islands can not be
interpreted they are on any Continental Shelf.
Marvin -prove me wrong moron!
Nov 11th, 2011 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0but you cannot - can you!
Fool!
Some contemporary facts non-islanders continue to misrepresent:
Nov 11th, 2011 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. We are economically independent from the UK. No handouts. UK pays for defence, the islands contribute to this, probably about £100-200k year.
2. The money comes mainly from selling fishing licences, but that does not make us fishermen. Virtually none of us are. If you don't know our way of life how can you have any respect for it?
3. Argentines can and do live here, but like anyone else, they need a reason. Immigration policy is strict and it can be hard to get a work permit, normal for a small community with limited resources (try Tristan da Cunha).
4. Our local government is responsible for the islands' income, education, pensions, healthcare, the fishery, oil licencing, customs and immigration, agriculture etc. The UK government does not take part in the day-to-day government.
5. Most people living here do so because they like it, not to hold the British flag or to make sure any wealth from stripping of natural resources gets sent straight back to the mother country. It is home. The UK is no more our home than Spain is home for a resident of Rio Gallegos.
Stop the desperate, petty, picking around the edges. If you are trying to find proof that we are particularly corrupt, racist, uneducated pawns, you won't get the answer by asking why Jamie Peck's Argentine wife did not get a job here, as if the truth would expose all. Every bad side, every unfair thing that has ever happened here has a counterpart virtually anywhere else.
#29 and #30: I know you're arguing different sides, but both of you seem to be under the illusion that we are seeking independence. John Fowler is not calling for a bloody, latin American-style revolution, just some slightly more robust talk from our heads of state.
Islas Malvinas is on the South America Continental Shelf,in technically
Nov 11th, 2011 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0in the Argentina territory sea,
So Uruguay belongs to Argentina then, thats why the Argies own Isla Martín García , thanks fore clearing that up
@35 O'gaga
Nov 11th, 2011 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“So Repsol-YPF will be allowed to tender for oil?[...]?”
Probably wouldn't be a problem from the FI viewpoint, however I dare say that if they did then they'd be harassed out of Argentina and back to Spain (you have figured out that Repsol-YPF is actually Spanish, haven't you?).
Besides which, they're already busy with their agreements with Cuba (2009) and Iran (2010).
47 stakeholder
Nov 11th, 2011 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are of course entitled to your very own opinion, my opinion was purely British, something to seem not to want,
An impression is just that, and if Argentina gets the impression that you are only here for the protection and nothing else, then may I suggest you future looks very bleak indeed,
[][5. Most people living here do so because they like it, not to hold the British flag or to make sure any wealth from stripping of natural resources gets sent straight back to the mother country. It is home. The UK is no more our home than Spain////
This sounds rather like an insult to British soldiers that gave their lives for your British islands, but of course if you think you do not have to hold the flag or respect the British people, then that sounds to me as being very ungrateful and selfish,
[again an impression you no longer want to be British, or are proud to be British, and will be glad when we [basically xuck off]
[][#30: I know you're arguing different sides, but both of you seem to be under the illusion that we are seeking independence. John Fowler is not calling for a bloody Latin American-style revolution,/////
So you are not seeking independence, so you are British, or am I wrong here, you cant have it both ways,
And no one is asking for a BLOODY revolution ,
But violence may or may not be forth coming, again we British sent troops to help you, and again your impression sounds ungrateful,
Its all about impressions,
As for having your own voice,, did I not say this in my reply that the Falklands island government should refute the lies from argentina, and press the government to do more,,
Your impression////my impression//
Your interpretation//my interpretation,,
And argentine glean at seeing an islander that gives that sole impression,
This is just my opinion, 1982 cost families dearly , it just my opinion.
.
@50 Briton.
Nov 11th, 2011 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I really dont understand how you interpret that because we live in the Falklands because it is our home and we like it here as we are unappreciative of the sacrifices British soldiers made to ensure our freedom and liberty. There is no doubt that we owe everything to those who died, and the Falklands tries everything it can to welcome and look after the war veterans. The purpose of Britain liberating the Falklands was to enable the Falklands to determine their own future, no matter what that future is.
Just like the British Government constantly say (to the effect of)...the people of the Falklands determine their own future.
I lived in England for many years and I only saw British people flying flags when the World Cup was on. I see more British/English flags in one morning in the Falklands than I saw in the entire 5 years+ I lived in Britain.
Independence is not on the agenda, so Briton dont make a mountain out of a mole hill. We are very happy with the current relationship and arrangement with Britain.
I am very disappointed in your poor interpretation, Briton.
51 M_of_FI
Nov 11th, 2011 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the reply was dammed good,
Again ones interpretation, are you ungrateful.
you are very disappointed in my interpretation, but not of 47 stakeholder who says they are not here to carry the flag, i think you have interpreted my impression wrongly,
ii expect the Falklands people to be proud to be Falklands just as i am to be English, the Falkland run their own affairs, just like local government in Cornwall or Derbyshire,
but i would not expect them to say we are not expected to fly the flag, this is disrespectful, we all know you are Falklands,, but from the British publics point of view, you are either British or you are not, you cannot have it both ways, so of his remarks were i found a bit over the top and ungrateful, and that is how it sounded,,
Then you come alone and condemn my opinion, you say you lived in England, and not many flags, England is just as proud as you are,
I fully understand that the Falklands ar you home, just as England is my home, but the impression is just that, if you think i am wrong then so be it, perhaps you and him are correct, [[[[ Most people living here do so because they like it, not to hold the British flag ////////
if that your opinion, then so be it,, but it is not mine.
Just as Brits pretend to be Argies to post on here, there may be Argies pretending to be Irish, New Zealanders, Brazillians, Icelanders and even perhaps Falkland Islanders.
Nov 11th, 2011 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lets be clear Margaret Thatcher launched the Task Force to take back British Sovereign Territory that had been invaded by an Agressive Facist Foreign power.
Times have changed and Argentina is now an Aggressive Democratic Foreign Power.
Who knows what the future holds.
Briton, I think you have interpreted it incorrectly. We are British, and proud to be. But when it comes down to it, we are also Falkland Islanders, with our own identity and culture. It is not as black and white as you say it is.
Nov 11th, 2011 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Someone in England once asked me, if the Falklands were playing England in a football match, who would you support...I said the Falklands every time.
My interpretation is because your English, and England is the heart and centre of Britain, you dont feel your identity is between England and Britain is separate. But ask someone from Wales or Scotland and see what answer they provide.
And just because I see myself as a Falkland Islander is not a sign of disrespect towards those you died and fought in the war, far from it. Dont jump to huge conclusions.
Just sayin'......
Nov 11th, 2011 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would call myself English and a British Citizen. I think Scots and Welsh also generally refer to their country first and British second. I certainly never considered it disrespectful to or for anyone to do so.
On Armistice Day I think we are all thinking of the fallen in all wars. People that made the ultimate sacrifice. Lest we forget.
Argies. Tell us about your respect for the Falkland Islanders way of life.
Nov 11th, 2011 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like how your invading troops wanted the Islanders to drive on the wrong side of the road.
Like how your invading troops imprisoned Islanders in a hall with only bar snacks for food.
Like how your invading troops enjoyed dropping their crap (amd I do mean faeces) in people's beds, on their furniture, in their baths, on their floors, in their post office.
All Argies are welcome in the Falklands. Why should the Islanders have to travel to saw your heads off with blunt, rusty hacksaws?
Any Argie that sets foot on the Islands should not survive the experience. They should do community service. Skipping through minefields 8 hours a day.
54 M_of_FI
Nov 11th, 2011 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 055 ElaineB
Briton.
I bet you are all glad we live in a democracy, no one is jumping,
Just a difference of opinion,
As Elaine and you say, we are all British, and individuals,
Just don’t send your gunboats over here to see me,
But I think we and all brits can/will agree
Freedom of speech and democracy is what makes us great, and perhaps, just perhaps im a bit to patriotic,
////////////////////////////////////////
And for the Argies, who have kept very quiet enjoying the scene with their coke and ice creams,
This was nothing more that a difference of opinion,
Democracy in action,
So please don’t glee, a mountain.
The Falklands will never be argentine,
just thought .
LOL! Yes, I enjoy a good debate and the ability to shake hands if we agree or not.
Nov 11th, 2011 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0thanks
Nov 11th, 2011 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I see where you are coming from Briton, but I have to disagree with it. You may be patriotic, but so am I. Just have different way of conveying it.
Nov 11th, 2011 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Briton and M_of_FI
Nov 11th, 2011 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're both on the same side, I presume. Briton, you want the Falklander' Freedom, and M_of_FI, you wish to be free. If that is your common interest, may I respectfully suggest you put minor differences aside? Especially in front of Argies. You appear to have had a misunderstanding, and seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill.
The Falkland Islands in search of a voice:
Nov 11th, 2011 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The article reveals a lack of identity or contradiction of the British island. Are they British or Argentine? That is the question. You can see the interest, human and economic rights of its inhabitants, that resulted from illegal occupation, but never their wishes as there were inhabitants on the islands before they were expelled by force and that the people of Argentina claims his recovery since 1833. We are talking about national sovereignty of a country that was taken away by force.
The islanders have an authority that is the United Kingdom, the islanders have a governor imposed by the United Kingdom, which for Argentina is an illegal authority. The islanders are British citizens Witness the fact of the existence of a military base in the islands that threatens the Argentine and South America to claim their legitimate rights.
The islanders to feel they have no voice of reason to give Defence Minister Mr. Arturo Puricelli Argentina: ”It is so obvious that the (UK) can only think of a strong support to strong budgets, have no reason of such a display of force, but to keep the 2000 hostage persons confined in the South Atlantic islands are Argentina's sovereignty ”
The islanders are beginning to realize that the UK certainly arguments of sovereignty on the islands, as the conflict has been installed on the agenda of world public opinion against the Argentine case, the government hides the struggle with English public opinion in the UK and the whole world by refusing to discuss and bring out your weak arguments.
The decolonization committee of United Nations, which is the appropriate to clarify the topology of the conflict, based on resolution 2065 (XX) of 1965, ratified by later resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49) , 1982 (37 / 9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 (39 / 6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25) are very clear in stating that there is a sovereignty dispute.
Marvin -prove me wrong moron!
Nov 11th, 2011 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but you cannot - can you!
Fool!
Anybody can prove you are wrong!
You have tried in ZM,and in “El Malvinense” and you lost!,lordtonto!
LIAR to the Core!!
Millet you speak kike a true Falkland pheasant lol
Nov 11th, 2011 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0go tend to your sheep oh sorry that was your girlfriend meh,meh.
Pirata sucio
I apologise if I don't speak for most islanders. Do most people in the UK really consider our first and foremost purpose to be to man this distant outpost for the empire? That's not what we think we are doing here. We are not a colony any more, and I merely made my apparently controversial remark to try to show Argentines that we live here because it's home, not to do our patriotic duty for the mother country. Should we return to colonial status, Briton?
Nov 11th, 2011 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Most islanders are very proud to be British and are not holding on to that simply for the matter of defence. If it was just about defence we'd be talking to the USA or China.
You say we “can't have it both ways”, but I think we have some say because it is our home that is being discussed like a piece of real estate in a zoning war. Please don't tell me That I'm ungrateful for putting my loyalties to the Falklands before my loyalties to a government I cannot even vote for or against.
Do you think we were liberated so that we could be forever in debt to Britain? Or do you think the soldiers who fought and died might be happy that we just get on with our lives?
I believe it is in the best interests for both nations to come up
Nov 11th, 2011 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0with a beneficial mutual agreement for both nations sharing
the Islands together would be noble but is it possible?
Oh look, the Brits and the islanders are disagreeing! The final cracks in the wall of the British Empire are showing right here, right now on Mercopress, folks! You'll be able to tell your grandchildren about how it was YOUR incisive posts that won the Malvinas. The British will say “If only we'd kept a united front on Mercopress we'd still have the Falklands.”
Nov 11th, 2011 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What it actually means is, there are THREE sides, not just Argentina and the UK.
#64 “Millet you speak kike a true Falkland pheasant lol”
Nov 11th, 2011 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think they have pheasants on the Falklands. They generally prefer farmland, and are themselves an introduced species to the UK from the Black Sea Area. They do not live on the Falklands. You may believe in talking animals but those of us in the modern first world know fairy tales are just made up.
the isles are more british than ever......defense foreign office police chief magistrate governor the assembly many brits too ...uk wants more the isles than you
Nov 11th, 2011 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the more brits the isles are better for uk
stake 1 rebel islander !! only 2 sides. britain argentinian no more
only 2 sides.
Nov 11th, 2011 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You got that bit right, Britain and the Falklanders,the Argies can go F themselves,have a nice day
Marvin - I asked YOU to prove me wrong!
Nov 11th, 2011 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And no, no-one from those other places you mention has uttered a word.
After all - I'm there for all to see !
Mercopress, now see what you have done,
Nov 12th, 2011 - 12:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0The brits have a conversation,
And the heathens try to claim the prize,
......................................................
As the Germans once said
A world without Argentina,
Is another bolt hole less to run to, lol.
Tigre2000 it is evidently true, its been years and they have done nothing. . Argentina's military power is puny, weak, third world. Your military is unable to even come close to ever getting the Falkland Islands back. Just talk, that is all Argentina's got..
Nov 12th, 2011 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just as Brits pretend to be Argies to post on here, there may be Argies pretending to be Irish, New Zealanders, Brazillians, Icelanders and even perhaps Falkland Islanders.
Nov 12th, 2011 - 02:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lets be clear Margaret Thatcher launched the Task Force to take back British Sovereign Territory that had been invaded by an Agressive Facist Foreign power.
Times have changed and Argentina is now an Aggressive Democratic Foreign Power.
Who knows what the future
AHHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh!!
Nice joke,pirate englander!!
uk is a pirate democracy,for which,shoulf be obliterated!!
Pay back time...Remember when the brits were looting in India,and some other colonies?/Well is not over yet!! Payback time.....
Tigre2000 it is evidently true, its been years and they have done nothing. . Argentina's military power is puny, weak, third world. Your military is unable to even come close to ever getting the Falkland Islands back. Just talk, that is all Argentina's got..
We are smart,spend the money in Education and health,not stupid weapons.....
But anytime we can increase the miltiary budget,to please you!!
What do you think is better? SU27 or F-35? Do you like nuclear or conventional warhead???
The Argentine nuclear sub is comming soon.....
Being bored I took the liberty having a read of el malvinense (great laugh by the way) and saw the great work you clowns put in “reclaiming” the Falklands involving crank calling :-))))))
Nov 12th, 2011 - 08:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Playing the chat conversation, maintained “politely” chat with the operator of the company, (reported by a Patriot Patriotic Resistance Group to excuse his poor English).
Welcome to A & K! My name is Kim. How May I assist you today?
... You: I'm an Argentine citizen. I wish to know, why you name Falkland Islands FALKLAND ISLANDS ours and ours to promote Nationals Territory voyages, With England names? I think is more just Recognize our rights. May be more happy!
Kim: Hello!
You: Did you learn my question?
Kim: Yes, One moment please while I find the answer to your question.
You: I wait it!
Kim: In 1690, Captain John Strong of the Welfare en route to Puerto Deseado WAS driven off course and INSTEAD Reach the Falkland Islands, landing at Bold Cove. Sailing Between the two main islands I Called the passage “Falkland Channel” (now Falkland Sound), After Anthony Cary, 5th Viscount Falkland, as Commissioner of the Who Admiralty HAD Financed the expedition. The island group name Español STI Takes From this body of water.
You: You know a wrong history of the rigths of England in Falkland Islands. Please correct and expand your information ....
Kim: I apologize, But if you wish I am happy to Have contact our office in Argentina to discuss this you with us.
Kim: Actually, The Falkland Islands are the Islas Malvinas in Spanish.
Kim: Ever since the re-establishment of British rule in 1833, Argentina have CLAIMED Sovereignty. In pursuit of This claim, Which is Rejected by the islanders, Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands in 1982. This precipitated the two-month-long undeclared Falklands War Between Argentina and the United Kingdom and resulting in the defeat and withdrawal of the Argentine forces. It is currently on the United Nations list of Non-Self-Governing Territories.
@74 If you think that the rest of the world will allow Argentina, a nation of weasel worded gangsters to have a nuclear submarine with nuclear war headed missiles in the S. Atlantic then you are delusional in the extreme. It will never happen. Grow up!
Nov 12th, 2011 - 09:20 am - Link - Report abuse 074
Nov 12th, 2011 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0No joke tithead, just facts.
65
Britain has become accustomed to fighting other people's foreign wars.
Hopefully after Iraq, Belize, Sierra Leonne, Afghanistan and Lybia this will now come to an end.
Currently a majority of war weary Britons still feel that the Falkland Islands would be a war well worth fighting....again.
Now with your very pragmatic view of your own situation, tell me why you think that might be.
2problems.one -what does history have to do with who the islands belong to because use whichever country that is who is the individual who is that country.no such person as it is a concept created by man and portrayed as god given(and he didn't give anyone a country least of all the Jewish community) Two-Britain/England/UK has not stopped fighting wars outside it's own Borders for 400years bearing in mind that it takes at time to create what is meant to be a legitimate excuse to start one(the story of weapons of MASS destruction in the legitimising of the Iraq war) and the language of British people reflects this as they express themselves as if the British way is the 'god given' way.you know how it is with families when one member is a trouble maker always picking fight which are counter productive to the family.well I have a feeling the British are god's troublemaker of the global family and that englander# is going to be disappointed to think wars and the British are a thing of the past.(another one now would boost the economy out of recession and it would be government spending,that forbidden method,that would do it)
Nov 12th, 2011 - 11:02 am - Link - Report abuse 078 Yuleno like some others you like to condemn those whom Argentina would most likely replace, you are no different,
Nov 12th, 2011 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the British have done bad things, so have 3/4 of the world, but that is the past, today great Britain tries its very best to help others, we send our young men and women to give their lives for others,, some but not all, are always glad to see British troops when they need them, then cant wait to see the back of them afterwards, but that is for the politicians to sort out, we try our best, today we give billions to help poor countries,
sometimes getting dragged in to wars made or instigated by others, as the military goes where it is told to go, we try to live in peace, by helping others this is after all the 21st century, sadly some countries like Argentina, still live in the past, and want land, more land than they can handle, they have become obsest with the Falklands, causing misery hurt and distress to thousands, greed will get you nowhere but the but end of a very big stick, all Argentina has to do, is accept the rights of the Falklanders , and allow them to live in peace, , but no your arrogant greed gets in the way, the British may not be whiter than white, but compared to some, we are positively on the way, ??
as for Englander he is entitled to ask or state an opinion like everybody else,
after all this is a democratic site, is it not,,, live long and prosper friend .?
Well seen as you defend englander you must think that 'tithead' is an ok word.well that's fine with me but I wonder if you are only concerned with the issues.therefore I am at a loss as to how you explain the unfortunate and entirely unjust name in many many countries in the world that uk has,and this is for the unrequested interventions in the internal politics of various countries.how is it they went into Iraq to defend (in part) the rights of the Kurds while supporting Turkey who attack the Kurds.who asked for their help in afganistan other than bush.and how well they looked after their colonies when they had them and isn't it a fact that the only countries who didn't have to throw off the occupier were the countries that had killed off indigenous populations. How kind and loved your country is but be careful not to stray to far from own.you might find different.take care!
Nov 12th, 2011 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 080 Yuleno
Nov 12th, 2011 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are living in a fantasy world. The UN is about to move the dates of the Rio Earth Summit in 2012 because the heads of Commonwealth countries would rather go to the Queen's diamond jubilee celebrations. That's about 80 heads of state. And most of them neither killed off indigenous populations or had to 'throw off the occupier'.
You take care yourself. You're the one talking complete bollocks.
And if you're an Argentine, you might start to look at your own reputation, which is some way beyond 'unfortunate'.
Monty I don't suppose you want to address how your peace-loving nature has been so misunderstood.the fact that 80 heads of state want to attend a royal event is public relations,you really don't think the grass roots love you,even your neighbour like Ireland and France don't.your place in the world is shrinking and without the special relationship,policeing the world were the yankeys let you,you would get a better sense of how loved you are.peace in our time yes
Nov 12th, 2011 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, come on, all neighbouring countries bicker. I spend a lot of time in SoAm, Argentina and Chile in particular, and all I hear is complaints about neighbouring countries. The Argentines sneer at and mock the Chileans. The Chileans laugh at the foolish Argentines. Both countries look down their noses at Peruvians and Bolivians.
Nov 12th, 2011 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Honestly, every problem and crime is blamed on their neighbours. The high crime rate in Mendoza is, apparently, is 'the fault of Chileans'. The Chileans hate the Argentines coming to Vina because 'the have no money to spend'. I was recently in Guatemala and they blamed every misfortune and problem on the Mexicans.
82 Yuleno
Nov 12th, 2011 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're an ignoramus. The French hate us, and we hate them, and this goes back to the Battle of Agincourt and beyond. The Chileans and the Uruguayans hate Argentines. Falkland Islanders hate Argentines too, but love the British. So what? Do you have a point.
And why would all these countries want public relations with a country they hated and which was a non- player any way? You're talking rubbish. No country has to be in the commonwealth- they all want to. And why do you think that is?
You don't want peace in our time. You want to take over our country you rotten hypocrite. Do you even know where the expression 'Peace in our time' came from? If that's the kind of thing you are offering us, you can keep it.
82 Yuleno
Nov 13th, 2011 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sadly you cant win,
Your evidence just don’t stack up,
you condemn the British as an excuse of the failure or your very own history,
You keep changing the subject, and searching for an event to attack the British stance,
like @83 ElaineB said all neighbours have a go at each other, their is nothing new their, but you still fail to acknowledge the good things we have achieved over the last 60 odd years,,
And just a last point of truth for you,
You mention Iraq, the first gulf war, did not Argentina take part in this,
or are the history books wrong again ?
P/S as for tithead, please read my blog I did not agree with or atone Englander words to you,
But merely pointed out he was entitled to an opinion,
I do not condone personal insults, unless you do it first,
The odd remark is neither here or their .
Well well,we have some admissions at last.of course each of you will not subscribe to what the others say but 1/the French hate(not the only ones)and you hate them at a time when you are peace-loving.2the fact that Argentina participation in Iraq justifies your action,so there are areas for comparison.3the motive force behind public relations is to progress economic realties and do business as in the commonwealth preferred status in the case of new zealand lamb before the membership of the eu.4/how do you square joining the eu when you hate France but claim that the commonwealth has a different motive.6/what is it that you have done good with because all your foreign aid is tied to shopping in approved 'shop',such as buying British arms or old used rail equipment.7/the offensive and aggressive language does not equate with a peace-loving nature but then I don't think anyone claimed you where peace-loving only that you were trying to be 'good boy's,and it seems to me that it is a trait of your natural aggressive culture.I'm sure I'll be corrected were you think(I mean believe)I'm wrong and I look forward to that.thank you
Nov 13th, 2011 - 01:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina a weak country, with a weak military, that is unable to do anything, they should change their uniform from pants to dresses. All Argentina can do is Talk, talk, talk. Nothing but talk.
Nov 13th, 2011 - 02:33 am - Link - Report abuse 086 Yuleno
Nov 13th, 2011 - 10:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't claim the commonwealth has a 'different motive'. I asked you why there would be any motive at all if, as you say, the UK is economically and politically insignificant. You did say that, didn't you?
If the commonwealth nations are keen to be friendly with the UK, then perhaps the UK does still have something to offer.
If you think that UK aid is tied to contracts, then I think you should come up with some evidence. Last I heard there was a move away from direct aid to governments towards administering it through charities and NGOs. Is this what you mean by 'trying to be good boys'?
And what is Argentine aid tied to? Is there any? Are you even trying to be 'good boys' or are you just putting all your energies into persecuting Falkland Islanders?
As for your 'natural agressive culture', we were on the receiving end of that in 1982. Lucky for us that Britain has that culture too. No-one is denying that, and I don't have any intention of correcting you.
Can I just add that your attitude towards the UK is intellectually incredibly lazy. You are using your ignorance and prejudice as an excuse and a substitute for thinking. No country or nationality are completely bad, or completely good, and motivations are never simple. Anyone who thinks they are is deluding themselves and impeding progress.
After i read the satements of the politicians form both sides, i confirm once and again that the history will always be submited to omitions, or open to diferent interpretations. I respect the fact tah islanders think that our claim is unfounded, in fact, if the two nations are sure of ther rights, unless one of them should propose to take the question to the i. c. j, however if none of the two parts proposes it, it's because both are not sure that they can win the case.
Nov 13th, 2011 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's why if they are not going to give that step, both should resume the negotiations, and find a fair solution for all the parts, none resolution from the u. n affirms that the solution to the sovereignty dispute must be resumed only if the islanders wish it, in the same way that they deffend the right to self determination, we deffend our territorial integrity, thats' why it's necesary to find a fair solution for all the parts, which implicates that they will have to cede in some of their pretentions.
On the other hand, if you think that only our side is adoctrinated since we are children to believe our official history, that shows of miopic are most you, specially the politicians, who only blame the others, and dont recognize ther mistakes.
Finally, if you still believe that there is a posibility that argentina invades the islands again, that shows also that you didn't learn to separate to context of the dictatorship fron the actual context, i can't believe that you are so ignorant, let me remind you that the article that was incorporated in our constitution in 1994, that you like to invoke all the time, says perfectly that the recovery of the islands must be under the respect for the international right, it doesn't say absolutly anything about a soposed using of militar forces, so, inform your self correctly, and stop parroting you own propaganda, which as partial as ours.
Month I think we are getting somewhere here.I did not say the UK were insignificant in any respect and I don't know where you get that idea.and because they do have economic and political 'clout' there is the commonwealth.but bear in mind that commonwealth concept used to be an empire.I'm not pretending that the UK is insignificant what I'm challenging is there peaceful intentions and the claim that they are trying to avoid conflict as was claimed.I'm also challenging the notion that they do not have a self interest in their global interaction.if they didn't they would not be representing the state.you are correct in saying motivations of actions are complex but I'm not the one who suggested are knew they were trying to do good in general.I am also not so naive as to think that everyone in the UK believes the same thing or have the same response to any particular issue.i know there are diverse opinions but what appears to be the case is that an aggressive and intolerant war-like attitude is visible quite frequently and from this I can't agree with this claim to wanting to do good.and I will ask again what is it the have done good as on this matter I'm ignorant of any good out weighting the harm they have globally.I know the UK rich have done ok for themselves and some of that has filtered down to you, but that is not what the original claim refers to
Nov 13th, 2011 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 090 Yuleno
Nov 13th, 2011 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The British came here and saved us from being forced to become Argentines. That is a 'good' that would not have been possible without Britain having very capable armed forces.
A part of me thinks that Britain should cut back its forces and would be a better world citizen for it. On the other hand, Gadaffi would have massacred a large proportion of his own people had they not had support from the British. I might and do agree on principle that Britain shouldn't wade into other countries with guns blazing, but these decisions are never as straightforward as that, are they. Sometimes, someone has to decide on the lesser of two evils.
I don't know what you mean by the 'UK rich' filtering down to me.
Well it does seem we have something in common,
Nov 13th, 2011 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We have you have they have the world has,
Politicians, hated by most, hero of the few
Scourge of the poor and recommended by the rich and powerful
Yes we have something in common; they rule and tell us what to do,
But always pretend it is good for our health,
The politicians will eventually decide this issue, peacefully or militarily
They will eventually rein supreme, and we will live with the aftermath,
[ah you say, are your politicians better than our politicians]
And so it starts again???
.
Well monty on the last point first.the aristocracy,the landed gentry,the capital class and other rich have not got that wealth by 'doing good' and to win over their fellow citizens have passed on benefits which have been taken from colonies,are you are British I assume.but on the matter of doing good just 2points.firstly how and before south Africa was freed,did they fail to adequately protect the islands and prevent the war,other than by a failure of policy(I don't know if it foreign policy or national policy).secondly,and I know it wasn't you who raised the matter, but it is obviously narrow view of doing good if your example is what you see as doing good.the ability for the islanders to be put in that position was a British failure and whether re-taking the islands is not seen by everyone as doing good.I wouldn't expect you to see it any other way because it's personal to you,but I would expect you to see that it is not an example of doing good but as a correction of it's own failure.your reference to Libya and your cautious conclusion to it,is a well considered caution
Nov 13th, 2011 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 093 Yuleno
Nov 13th, 2011 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am a Falkland Islander first and British second, as you were wondering.
It is understood that Britain failed adequately to take account of Islanders' wishes prior to 1982 and may well have given the impression that they didn't care about the islands or their inhabitants. However, that does not excuse the invasion. It was wrong, and that wrong was righted by the task force.
Furthermore, it is the Argentine government now who wishes to ride roughshod over the wishes of the islanders. The British government have repeatedly said that there will be no change unless we wish it. Argentina says our views should count for nothing.
I can't therefore see how a different policy in 1982 would have made any difference. We were nothing to Argentina then, and nothing has changed.
I'm not going to get into a discussion about the rights and wrongs of capitalism. You have your own moneyed classes who got rich by exploiting someone. So does everywhere.
it seems to me that the only people that are moaning about the empire, are the same people that were never part of it, envious or what,
Nov 13th, 2011 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0if the ex colonies hated the British that much, they would not be in the commonwealth, or even associate with us, again the only one who has a problem is Argentina, who was not part of the empire,
If are going to keep throwing the past, may you consider what the Spanish did to the original south American people,
you live in the past, its as simple as that, and very anti British,
.................
The fact is as simple as 123, unless you are argentine,
The Falkland islanders have chosen at this time to remain British, not argentine,
They may also wish their independence one day, but alas Argentina refuses to let them live in peace,
All Argentina has to do, is recognise their right to live in peace and left alone to decide their own future,
And by Monday its all over, Finnish,,
But this will go on for many decades to come, because of Argentina,
Yes your fault, you cannot keep throwing other past things in the way,
if the islanders chose to be Argentina, you and others would be on this blogg telling the brits to leave well alone, go home they wish to be argentine, so by default this make u a hypercrit does it not,
Let them live in peace and , Argentina looks after her own problems,
And the military would down size,
But no doubt your reply will state the British are to blame and you are correct,
but @ Yuleno (# just for the record,
Please tell us, why Argentina wants these islands, and don’t quote 1833
Just the real reason in your eyes please .
comment 91 “the lesser of two evils”..........the two demons or evils theory??
Nov 13th, 2011 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0as far as I know, it was used by our militar dictatorship to justify their state terrorism (using the same way the terrorists use but coming from the state, not the law or justice) to combat other terrorists in what they called a war. They did not only kill terrorist but many many innocents.
As I understand both are evils or demons, both are committing crimes, terrorists wanting to take power and kidnapping and killing, but the state is committing it worse because it is institutionalized that crime. They should have done like in Spain against ETA, combating them with law and no allowing so many innocents that had nothing to do with those sides but where killed because they were only suspected.
96 malen
Nov 14th, 2011 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0I agree with you, in theory. However, in the case of Gadaffi threatening to massacre an entire city, ot the Taleban controlling swathes of territory and killing women just for being women, there might just be a case for swifter action than letting the law take its course. Especially where the perpetrators of the crimes are the law.
Where would you draw the line with this? The holocaust? Should someone have tried to stop Pol Pot? How about Stalin starving to death 7 million Ukrainians? It isn't that easy, is it?
''All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing'' Discuss
So much talk. It is not going to chance. The people of the Falkland Islands want nothing to do with Argentina. They want to be left alone, and live their lives in freedom. Argentina, wants to force them to be ruled by Argentina. It will never happen, as long as they wish to remain with the United Kingdom. God bless the Falkland Islands and the UK.
Nov 14th, 2011 - 02:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0They should have done like in Spain against ETA, combating them with law and no allowing so many innocents that had nothing to do with those sides but where killed because they were only suspected.
Nov 14th, 2011 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You sure about that malen ?
During the 1980s a “dirty war” ensued by means of the Grupos Antiterroristas de Liberación (GAL, “Antiterrorist Liberation Groups”), a paramilitary patriotic group which billed themselves as counter-terrorist, active between 1983 and 1987. The GAL committed assassinations, kidnappings and torture, not only of ETA members but of civilians supposedly related to those, some of whom turned out to have nothing to do with ETA. 27 people were murdered by GAL.[60] Activities of GAL were a follow-up of similar dirty war actions by death squads, actively supported by members of Spanish security forces and secret services, using names such as Batallón Vasco Español acting from 1976 to 1982. They were responsible for the killing of about 48 people.[60]
The airing of the state-sponsored “dirty war” scheme and the imprisonment of officials responsible for GAL in the early 1990s led to a political scandal in Spain. The group's connections with the state were unveiled by the Spanish journal El Mundo, with an investigative series leading to the GAL plot being discovered and trial initiated. As a consequence, the group's attacks since the revelation have generally been dubbed state terrorism.[62]
In 1997 the Spanish Audiencia Nacional court finished its trial, which resulted in convictions and imprisonment of several individuals related to the GAL, including civil servants up to the highest levels of the Spanish Socialist Workers' Party (PSOE) government, such as former Homeland Minister José Barrionuevo. Premier Felipe González was quoted as saying that the constitutional state has to defend itself “also in the sewers” (El Estado de derecho también se defiende en las cloacas) something
Monty69.to retake the islands therefore is not doing good it is re-establishing what was the status quo ante.correcting the failure!you can't fail and then correct it and call it doing good. Briton.how would I be envious of Britain's empire.it no longer exists it now a commonwealth of countries which have historical links via Britain.if I was envious I could move to one of these countries but I will not.but why do british people choose to live so close to mainland Argentina.quite a few have made their home in Argentina and have raised families.also seen as you were the one to highlight your country's efforts to do good I am bewildered by examples of it.and Libya was regime change as in Iraq and we have yet to see what kind of a regime it is seen as it will need much foreign intervention to establish a dominant force in what is a divide regime now established.a shari'a state to be permitted?
Nov 14th, 2011 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0100 Yuleno
Nov 14th, 2011 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In what sense does an 8th generation islander 'choose to live close to mainland Argentina'? No-one here could care less about Argentina. This is our home. You might just as well ask why an English person chooses to live so close to France. And those Cubans....why do they choose to live so close to the US? Good luck to those British people who live in Argentina. They chose it, we didn't.
I'm quite happy with my examples of regimes that needed changing, including those that took a world war to do it.
Why will Libya need a 'dominant force'? Most countries get by without despots in charge.
I'm not surprised you're bewildered. You'd get on better if you stopped dealing in absolutes and abandoned the whole 'wouldn't it be nice if everyone was nice' approach to international relations.
I suppose you would have been quite happy to see the end of the Bosnian Serbs? How about the genocide in Rwanda? Would it have been a good thing if the UN force on the ground had been given a mandate to stop it?
Or are those million lives less important than your squeamish aversion to foreign intervention?
Comment removed by the editor.
Nov 14th, 2011 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the government from the islands thinks that there is a threat of invation by argentina, which justifies the militar base that you have in mount pleasant, that shows how far from the reality most you are.
Nov 14th, 2011 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Answer me some thing please, ¿how many intents of invations there were by argentina to the islands after 1982?, ¿dont you know that since 1983 we are a democratic nation?, ¿how many countries did argentina invade after 1982?, ¿do you know what the article that was incorporated in our constitution in 1994 affirms about our claim?, ¿dont you know that our budget of defence is one the lowest form south america?.
The article affirms that the recovery of the islands must be under the respect for the international right, it doesnt' say absolutly anything about a soposed using of militar forces, with the purpose of recovering the malvinas-falkland islands, so, stop parroting your own propaganda, which is as partial as ours, in my comment 89 i say much more about it.
Yuleno (#
Nov 14th, 2011 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Briton. how would I be envious of Britain's empire
Glad you finally except this historical fact, please would you inform your fellow Argies that bring it up every 5mins,
////////////////////////////////////////////////
if I was envious I could move to one of these countries
possibly maybe ??
do British people choose to live so close to mainland Argentina.
They do not, alas argentina is 300 miles away,
The question may be asked,
Why does argentine people choose to live 300 miles from the Falklands,
n/a
as you were the one to highlight your country's efforts to do good I am bewildered by examples of it.and Libya
well if im correct, this was by UN mandate [was that correct]
and it was not the British, it was a united front of nations, including the USA and France,
And the UAE, and others,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Britain as an example gives billions to poor nations,[Argentina gives,
but this does not distract from the illigle and criminal act, by argentina in 1982,
justa thought .
#103
Nov 14th, 2011 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel,
You invaded once already, when the islands were undefended. Whats to say another Argentine president wouldn't fancy their chances when they're a bit unpopular. All we hear from Argentina is pirates, squatters, talk of starving the islands into submission and basically macho posturing at every opportunity to grand stand Argentina's claims. When has Argentina ever given a reason to trust it - you've ripped up every agreement - and you blame everyone else but yourselves.
103 axel arg
Nov 14th, 2011 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The British base is really a very small one. And they spent all that money building it, they should be able to use it for training and suchlike.
I completely believe you have no plans to invade. However, being 'democratic since 1982' isn't quite enough of a record for me. Especially when your politicians are pathological liars, intent on spreading misinformation far and wide, and willing to do us great harm by illegal means. You are quite willing to harass our shipping and fishing fleet, and you test our air defenses every few weeks. I do believe our deterrent is effective in stopping you from stepping this up.
It's simple; if you want the base to go, you need to start behaving like good neighbours and mean it.
Monty69 i'm sorry you don't make sense to me.which is it that bothers you most,that I could have preferred the elimination of the Tutsi in rwanda or my squeamish aversion to intervention.please be sure there was intervention in Rwanda when the genocide took place.the French had supplied the machetes and UN observers witnessed the genocide.both things occurred there and it continues in eastern Congo.now in the case of Rwanda colonial occupiers abolished tribal boundaries and favoured the Tutsi who have policed the Hutu for the colonialists.if foreign powers stopped interfering in the internal affairs of other countries they wouldn't fund oppositional movements.And who knows Libya might remain an Islamic state although many people will hope it doesn't.the same divisive(divide and rule)policy de stabilised the Balkans(more than once).don't think that because a particular settlement is reach today that it is to stand forever.in the case of the islands for example more than one nation has occupied them if that the correct word.(another word would be owned them) but that is not necessarily the end of it.which would you think I would prefer,violent reoccupation,negotiated settlement or de-stabilisation.if UK claims the islands and Argentina claims them like it or not a settlement will have to be agreed or do you favor the elimination of Argentina? It is a serious question.
Nov 14th, 2011 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No it isn't, a serious question, that is.
Nov 15th, 2011 - 01:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't care enough about Argentina either way to give it any thought.
The fact that Argentina chooses to claim the islands doesn't mean there has to be a settlement. Anywhere could claim anywhere else. Your claim is illegal and false. I don't want you or anyone else eliminated. I just don't want you here.
As for Rwanda, I know the UN witnessed the genocide. It was I that said it in the first place. How is watching it 'intervention'? I asked you if you thought they should have stopped it. You didn't answer ( apart from blaming the French and their imperialistic colonial machetes). In 1982 the French supplied the Exocets...and your point is ......? You're clutching at straws and it's feeble.
And...''don't think that because a particular settlement is reach today that it is to stand forever''.....quite so. This is one of many reasons why we will never negotiate a settlement with you. You just aren't to be trusted. You never have kept an agreement, have you.
@ 103 axel arg
Nov 15th, 2011 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why does Argentina have a Army Navy and Airforce ?
Do you have house insurance?
Axel Arg #103
Nov 15th, 2011 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“¿how many intents of invations there were by argentina to the islands after 1982?”
None, of course. Can you prove that without the presence at Mount Pleasant, there wouldn't have been any? I think it's called a deterrent. I'd rather live without it, but I have to agree with 106, that without that deterrent things would have been much harder for us.
Yuleno #107,
“if foreign powers stopped interfering in the internal affairs of other countries they wouldn't fund oppositional movements.”
Do you really think that? Do you really believe that foreign intervention is the cause of civil war? That without the nasty imperialistic regime changers, all countries would live in peace? Come on, humans have always been arseholes to one another and will always be with or without the CIA, NATO, UN, etc. We don't need foreign intervention as an excuse to kill one another.
The matter of The Falkland Islands is already settled. It is just that Argentina refuses to accept it because it is not what they want.
Nov 15th, 2011 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And they have made it clear they will not settle for anything less than sovereignty of The Falkland Islands, so discussion is pointless.
The only possible chance (and I would say it is no chance) is for the Argentine government to seek a legal ruling at the ICJ. Ask them why they do not do that?
I'd rather live without it, but I have to agree with 106, that without that “deterrent things would have been much harder for us”.
Nov 15th, 2011 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You'd be speaking Spanish mate - forget the “things would have been much harder” shit!
1/sovereignty is not settled. 2/how does a 'repressive regime's eg Libya ,lose power to a movement without there being external help(intervention). 3/why did the UN watch the genocide in rwanda.but actively intervene (including bomb civilian population)in Libya. 4/should Argentina prepare to retake the islands by force or via negotiation.if you don't want it by negotiating,you see no compliant in 1982 other than it was failure from argentina's viewpoint. 5/not all humans are arseholes but those that are arseholes tend to attract other arseholes Lastly/intervention and interference are not the same thing and watching (observing) is also a different activity.
Nov 15th, 2011 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0113
Nov 15th, 2011 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 01 Sovereignty is settled.
2 It doesn't.
3 Don't know. What do you think?
4 You are not going to take the Islands back by negotiation (unless tossers like Stakeholder really start to piss us off). So force is your only option. You failed in 1982 and current likelihood is that you'll fail again.
5 True but then all humans have arseholes. Check yours out, most of what you say comes directly out of it.
6 Intervention - interference do actually boil down to the same thing
7 Watching isn't the same thing. Do I take it you like to watch?
113 Yuleno
Nov 15th, 2011 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0your wrong and you know your wrong, but your indoctrination wont let you admit it, instead you try to influence the islanders, that they are better of without great Britain, and to go it alone,
For abet mmmmm just as long as it takes Argentina to tear up any agreement and get there, ,
you know it,, i know it, and im sure the vast majority of islanders know it, as long as they wish to remain British, the British government will defend them, until the day comes and they no longer wish to be British, then we will go,????????????
But we wont go far pal, the British have a very big stake in the south Atlantic, and British territory , we will be their long after your bones have turned to dust,
enjoy your talking , your good at that, the brits are here to stay, so get use to is, or carry on talking lol.
113 Yuleno
Nov 15th, 2011 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, you're showing your true colours.
'Retake the islands by negotiation' WTF is that? How is that negotiation? You've already decided what the outcome is.
Or face the consequences. That would be a regime change then. You want to force regime change on us, by whatever means. You are a complete hypocrite.
Perhaps you might want to take that whopping great plank out of your own eye before you worry about the speck of dust in someone else's.
• You cannot win back by negotiation what you have lost through violence.
Nov 15th, 2011 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Funny thing about argie Foreigner, thinks he's big enough to play with the big boys then skulks off to his Mothers apron strings when he finds he can't.
.
114# nothing much worth discussing there is there?
Nov 15th, 2011 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0115# are you telling me what is right as well as I am wrong,you wonderful human being.should I bow and thank you.no I don't have to and I don't have to accept what you say.but I do like your word indoctrination,you know how that happens as well?
116# it is not possible to interfere in one's own affairs but it is the duty of a government to intervene in affairs in it's own territory otherwise they would be failing in the duty
The illegal aliens in Islas Malvinas Argentina can go back to britain anytime they wish there is no issue in Argentina with them being british we do not want anyone who would rather be british go home it's simple otherfways dance to the music and support a nuclear defence program for Argentina to defend the main land from international piracy something that is too evident to deny, if you choose a song you better be ready to dance.
Nov 15th, 2011 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0118 Yuleno
Nov 15th, 2011 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, but it isn't you rown territory is it. You'd like it to be, but that isn't the same thing.
And your bogus arguments don't become true just because you keep saying them.
'territorial integrity' er, no. Something 400km away is not an integral part of your territory.
'We inherited the islands from Spain' No you didn't, you won your independence from Spain.
The islanders have no say in their future because they aren't a 'people'?? Well that's not for you to say as you know precisely nothing about us or our culture.
Do you have any other arguments or is that it? All the others seem to be variations to me.
As I said, forcing regime change on an unwilling population. Not nice.
At least most of the Libyans seemed to want their regime changed.
118 Yuleno,,, , are you telling me what is right as well as I am wrong,
Nov 15th, 2011 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you wonderful human being
[thank you]
but I do like your word indoctrination
Yes very handy this, but I must put your mind as ease, it’s not my saying, it happens to be taught in your schools [is it not]
……….
I don't have to accept what you say, [][at least you understand this point,
If everybody had to agree with what I say, then would we not live in a Dictatorship?
But we live in a democracy, so feel free to agree or disagree, its entirely your choice.
…………………………..
Alas if Argentina was British, you may not be in such a mess,
Justa thought lol.
.
JUSTINKUNTZ. MONTY69. STAKEHOLDER.
Nov 16th, 2011 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You forgat to mention that the invation of 1982, was made by a dictatorship, the islands were undefended, and the despisable militar junta took advantage of that situation.
On the other hand, if you think that an unpopular president would invade the islands, to try to boost hes government, that shows that you know nothing about our people, you dont live here, you only have the partial or ignorant information that you read in the media, but you know nothing about us.
I know my people, i was born and grown up here, and i can say with total conviction that nobody would support any invation, we already lost planty of compatriots, and thank to the democracy, and to the fight of human rights militants, the justice is judging the repressors of the dictatorship.
Beside, the actual scenario, is the result of the mistakes of both nations, you criticise us for the so called blockade, or because my country recalled the agreements that were signed in the past, but at the same time, you never accepted to resume the negotiations for the sovereignty, which is the main problem, in the same way that the islanders deffend the right to self determination, we deffend our territorial integrity, that's why it's necesary a fair solution for both, like i always say, if the two countries are sure of their rights, unless one of them should propose to take the question to the court, however if they dont do it, they should resume the negotiations, stop victimizing their selves, and stop making partial analysis, because it's pathetic, if you think that we must behaviour like good neightbours, you should make also a critic of your behaviour too, because it's your side the one which rejects to resume the negotiations, so, your are not much better than us.
If you insist that the militar base is necesary to avoid a soposed invation by argentina, that shows that you still didn't learn to separate the actual context from the context of the dictatorship.
There is no possible negotiated settlement that would suit both sides.
Nov 16th, 2011 - 11:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And don't tell me what to think. I think your country's behaviour is disgraceful and I'll say so if I please.
You're all just so terribly patronising and....neocolonial. You want to take my country and I'm supposed to just accept it. Well no, I don't think I will. We don't have to negotiate with you because your claim is utterly bogus. You don't have sovereignty, we do, and we'll have a base here for our defence if we choose.
question
Nov 17th, 2011 - 12:35 am - Link - Report abuse 01, why does argentina need militery bases
2, why does argentina need the navy
3, why does argentina need an air force
4, why does argentina need a nuclear submarine,
answer this truthfully
and you will answer your very own question over the falklands, without being rude .
ditto.
For Briton nobody answers truthfully who doesn't agree with him.for monty the truth is what he likes.for others that prejudice and for most people an emotional response to reality.it doesn't necessarily correspond to the truth.does it?
Nov 17th, 2011 - 09:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0BRITON. MONTY69.
Nov 17th, 2011 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BRITON: We need defence like any other nation, specially to protect our natural recorces, anyway, our budget for defence is one of the lowest of south america, and we dont use our recources to invade nations, using the hipocryte argument of the fight against terrorisem, like some powerfull nations do. Now i ask you a couple of questions, ¿how many countries did argentina invade after 1982?, ¿how many intents of invations there were by argentina to the islands after 1982?, i can understand that the islanders need a base to deffend the recources of the islands, but if they think that there is a posibility that argentina invades them again, that's shows how far from the reality they are, i suggest you to read what our constitution says about the recovery islands, you''ll see that it doesn't say absolutly anything about a soposed using of militar forces.
MONTY69: If you think that i am terribly patronising or neocolonial, let me remind you that it wasn't argentina the nation that become the islands into a colony, it was actually your motherland (the u. k.), this is evident that you didn't understand anything about what i told you, if i say that we need a fair solution, it means that nobody wants to subdue your people, none resolution from the u. n. asks the u. k. to transfer the sovereignty of the islands to argentina, nor affirms that the solution to the sovereignty problem must be resumed only if the islanders wish it, on the other hand if none of the two nations proposes to take the dispute to the court, it's because both are not sure that they can win the case, that's why if they are not going to give that step, both should resume the negotiations, and find a fair solution, like the u. n. solicits, if you have no capacity to see this, that shows how miopic you are, it's lamentable.
el sr.fowler asevera en este articulo que si no fuera por la amenaza de invasion permanente por parte de la argen tina el gasto de defensa en las islas seria mucho menor mi pregunta es de que fuente extrajo el sr fowler que la argentina tiene planes de invasion...?
Nov 17th, 2011 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0126 axel arg, thank you for your answer,
Nov 17th, 2011 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And now I will give you an honest answer,
1. ¿how many countries did Argentina invade after 1982// Without looking I don’t know
2. . what our constitution says about the recovery islands//post it and I will read it, but at least you understood that the British put a base on the island for protection of its interests and territory, exactly the sama as Argentina does,//I hope that answers you,. MONTY69 can answer if he chooses,
3. Thanks .
125 Yuleno, For Briton nobody answers truthfully, well axel reg did,
And your silly reply, that everybody has to agree , is as silly as you are becoming, time and time you ask,, time and time we supply, and time again you ignore, and your browbeating isn’t working, ditto,.
,
Like i said before, i understand that the islanders need a base to protect the recources from the islands, but what is really ignorant and stupid, is that the argue that there is a threaten of invation by argentina, on the other hand, the last war that we had, was the 1982 conflict.
Nov 17th, 2011 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is what our constitution affirms about our claim for the islands.
Transitory disposition.
First: The argentine nation ratifies it's legitime and imprescriptible sovereignty over the Malvinas islands, South Georgia, and South sandwich and the correspondent insular and maritime spaces, for being part of the national territory. The recovery of the territories, and the full excercise of the sovereignty, respecting the way of life of it's people, and according to the principles of the international right, constitute a permanent and unrenounciable objetive of the argentine people.
As you can see, it doesn't say absolutly anything about a soposed using of militar forces with the purpose of recovering the islands, that's why it's really ignorant to argue a soposed threaten of invation by argentina, this transitory disposition was incorporated to our constitutuion in the reform of 1994.
No Briton (or is it lord)nobody tells the truth if it doesn't agree with your 'impressions or thoughts' is what I claimed.I know people tell the truth,it's you who thinks otherwise.you even call people disrespectful because you think they need the British and they don't.
Nov 17th, 2011 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0130 Yuleno here we go again, sticks and stones.
Nov 18th, 2011 - 12:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0And being petty at that, I give an opinion, that’s all,
i cannot tell you how to interpret it, that’s your problem not mine,
The truth is the truth, [can you tell the difference]
it has nothing to do, with me, i cannot dispute the truth, [can you]
As for disrespect, have I disrespected you, against your insults to me,
Again this is where you fall down, take it wrongly and get upset,
Why do you bring others into the argument, if you have some thing to say to me, say it,,,,,,,,
……………………………………………………..
Your first post at 79,,
I have a feeling the British are god's troublemaker of the global family t at 78 Yuleno
[you think this is the truth, and not insulting////
And my reply to you in part,
the British have done bad things, so have 3/4 of the world, but that is the past, today great Britain tries its very best to help others, we send our young men and women to give their lives for others,
no insults their.
80 Yuleno (#)
Well seen as you defend Englander you must think that 'tithead' is an ok word.
I replied and told you I did not agree with his remark, no insult their,
85 Briton, I replied politely, no insult
86 Yuleno you replied, your opinion.
95 briton,, @ Yuleno (# just for the record,
Please tell us, why Argentina wants these islands, and don’t quote 1833
Just the real reason in your eyes please,, very polite.
NO PROBLEM, So why act childish now, OH THAT’S ALL YOU CAN, try again,,
Sorry if I don't behave the way you want but I am not aware of insulting you,I only critize your statements,be they facts or impressions or thoughts.the truth is very difficult to establish in any discussion.it tends to be an agreement that is reached.I am still not convinced that you view this matter in an open manner but reiterate your beliefs and that is fine.but it seems like you believe that if others do the same it's not acceptable.you are the one who states that I keep repeating the same childish replies and that I'm browbeating.I merely accuse you of thinking you know the truth and mask it as thought,impressions opinions etc.there will be no more personal remarks from me on this blog if there are none directed at me.
Nov 18th, 2011 - 09:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0BRITON.
Nov 18th, 2011 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In my comment 129, i have the answer for you, but i had forgotten to type your nick name.
132 Yuleno now you have that of your chest,
Nov 18th, 2011 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps we can get back to arguing and debating, that what we all like.
Try not to take things directly,
now then, if I can convince you that argentine should change her constitution, and allow the Falklands to be totally independence,
you can all be the best of friends over say 5/10 years,, the argie navy can do exercises with them and the royal navy, air sea rescue between two bases, trading together, mmmmmm hows that sound,
But alas it may never happen, at least in the short term,
im afraid Argentina will just have to talk her way around the world,
lolol,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
133 axel arg , if the constitution is negative in that regards, then is it not possible, as stated above, that Argentina, can then, change this and remove this item, therefore removing the sole barrier to talking, again , then Argentina can make reparations and be friendly, help them and eventually start up trading again, re-do the agreements that Argentina tore up, and start the friendship all over again,
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To you both, its just an opinion, good or silly .
Briton yes I know it's an opinion and I think you know what I think of it.don't you? Have you any more ideas or thoughts,which are worth thinking about that we could discuss and debate.
Nov 18th, 2011 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well put it this way,
Nov 18th, 2011 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0a simple bridge made of paper,
We put weight on the bridge, sooner or later; something will have to give,
Argentina talks, but enforces pressure,
Britain defends, and always on guard,
But the pressure cooker keeps going
You get nowhere, we go nowhere,
What happens next,
Just like TV today between Cameron and merkle,
The experts say, Germany wont give, the UK wont give,
Sooner or later, fate will take a hand,
Same with Argentina –Falklands -Britain,
Sooner or later, if something or someone don’t solve it,
Fate may well take a hand,
Positive or negative,
Interesting all the same
[dabate] perhaps just a little change in the argie Constitution.
Your quite right Briton.Argentina will continue to pursue it's territorial integrity you can be assured of that.
Nov 19th, 2011 - 09:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0BRITON.
Nov 19th, 2011 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don think in absolut that the transitory disposition has a negative item, what i try to tell you is that the islanders shouldn't think that my country is going to invade the islands again, firstly, because nobody in argentina would support it, beside our constitution doesn't affirm absolutly anything lucklilly respecting the using of militar forces with purpose of recovering the islands.
On the other hand, i accepb the critics that you and islanders make to my country about the fact that argentina recalled the agreements that had been signed in the past, i dont know exactly why argentina did it, but at the same time, your side, and the islanders never accepted any discution about the sovereignty issue which is the main problem that we have, they only search excuses to reject the negotiations respecting the sovereignty, and condition to resume them, to the acceptation of the islanders, none resolution affirms that the sovereignty must be discussed only if the islanders wish it, they only call the two parts of the conflict to find a peacefull solution, your side, and the islanders should also make a critic of your posture, the actual scenario is the responsability only of argentina.
Well, the verdict here seems pretty simple,
Nov 19th, 2011 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yule no, as stated his country will pursue it's territorial integrity
So no compromise, their then,
And axel, i think you do understand the islander’s problem,
But, this one is going to be interesting for the politicians,
After all, they will be the ones to do the negotiations,
But its back to the debating/arguing chamber for the rest of us, to discus,, but make no mistake, something will give, sooner or later,
But may I suggest that, wider events in the world
May well make that decision for us,
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