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Euro rescue deal limited to 17-EU countries and with a March deadline

Friday, December 9th 2011 - 07:12 UTC
Full article 83 comments

Attempts to rescue the Euro will focus on a deal among the 17 nations that use the single currency, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said early Friday. Read full article

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  • O gara

    Cameron shows yet again the so called uk is nothing but the City of Londo..Alec Salmond has another serious tool in his hands now

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 08:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Teaboy2

    O'Gara you are either blind or stupid. The EuroZone Crises does not need nor did it ever need non EuroZone countries, signing to changes in the treaty at all. All it needed was those countries that are part of the EURO, after all its the EURO currency thats in crisis, not the currency's of the states outside of the EuroZone.

    All Germany and France were trying to do is get more contorl over all EU Countires, tax, banking and financial sectors and centralise it in the brussel's. Basically trying to get control of other controls through the back door and create a united Europe. Both France and Germany failed to do this in war, such as Nepolean and ww 2 so are now trying to do it together via diplomacy.

    Now why should we the british people pay extra taxes to brusssels, have them take control of and tax our financial sector and give them more say over our laws and banking? The EuroZone Crisis is not our problem and it would be far cheaper for us if the Euro Collasped then to enter this new treaty. Sure our economy would shrink up to 5% if the euro did collaspes, but the cost of that is far less then the next 25 years under france and germanys proposed changes.

    Not only that, if cameron had agreed he would have had to hold a referrendum and i can tell you now us brits would have vote no by at least 85% and well have similarly voted to leave the EU altogether. France and Germany were simply being greedy when they wanted all 27 EU states to sign the new treaty, just so they could rob the coffers of our banks and finanical sector as well as control our taxes. IF brazil tried to do the same with argentinas financial sector and taxes, youd be the first to tell them up yours, now wouldn't you.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 10:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    #1 Ogaga
    It's hypocritical for a pretend Irishman to berate the UK when we were stupid enough to loan money to support the Irish economy. As far as I am aware no other country outside the Eurozone did so (to be clear for you that's countries in the EU but not using Euros for their currency).

    At the time there were plenty of us who thought baling Eire out was not our responsibily - your cackeyed grasp of finance and economics with regard to Argentina and what you think about the UK in general proves we were correct.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    Many of the Eurozone countries are saying that what Cameron asked for was not unreasonable at all. Financial services are our biggest income and we have every right to protect our income when saving the Euro is not our responsibility, though it is in our interest for Europe to survive the Euro crisis.

    Imagine if the proposal were to control France's agricultural market, or to take control of Spain's fishing market in order to prop up the pound? The response would have been the same.

    Personally I think both France and Germany did not expect this from Cameron.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Yuleno

    Quite obviously #2 &#3 you are wrong in your views.The stock markets say you are.However if it turns out that the crisis is resolved without the 27 countries working together,it would only mean that capital is not concentrated in few enough hands.Don't think it's because the British are so superior.They are not

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Teaboy2

    Sorry but the stock markets do not say anything of the sort. You clearly have a poor crasp of how stock markets work and the external influances that effect them. Also given the stock markets only just opened after the news came out, then your response can only be in regards to yesterdays stock markets final results where they were in general all down by either 1 - 2%, which was expected given the uncertainty as to whether the Euro summit would actually succed at all.

    It is todays stock market results which will show what effect the outcome of the Euro summit has had on investers and their views to UK stocks and European Stocks. Oh and for the record the Ftse 100 was up 0.60% this morning at 6:20am and at the moment is currently up 0.81% so its likely to be up by about 1 - 1.50% by the end of the day. So what were you saying about stock markets, as i think you will find they are saying the opposite to what you are trying to tell us.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    One piece of advice, don't argue with Argentinians about the stock market or economics. They have absolutely no idea how it works, very very few people in Arg own stocks and for a country with so many economics majors they are piss poor at knowing how one works. In fact I think Arg is the only country where a room full of Economics Ministers actually burst out laughing when a former K Econ Min said “the known economic laws don't apply to Argentina we are different”. I think it was Miceli (sp?) at a World Bank forum. It was in the newspapers here! That is like saying the law of gravity is not applicable because we are Argentinians! Idiots.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • O gara

    The of city London has become totally isolated as even Hungary its one ally has had a rethink.The seventeen EuroZone countries plus nine others get your facts right just once teaboy.
    As for Christy suddenly the doubts about ny Irishness dissapear.The facts are thre City of Lodon lent money to Ireland at a very nice interest rate as Ireland is one of its biggest customers buying more than Russia,China,india and Brazil combined.It runs a very large trade surplus with Ireland and protected its economic interest as it always has done.
    Pobrecita now not ONE of the European countries agree with Cameron you are completely isolated.
    This could be in the long term absolutely disastrous for the peripheral English areas as they will face disastrous consequnces by the Citys isolation from Europe.
    It will be very interesting to see how the junior partner in this government takes this

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    There will not be 'disastrous consequences' but there would have been if the UK had handed over the income from its' financial services to bail out the Euro. The UK elected not to join the Euro and has continued to trade with Europe. You have been in Argentina too long, running on emotions when business is just business.

    When you analise it, the members of the Eurozone have no alternative but to agree to anything France and Germany insist on. If they don't they are well and truly up shit creak without a paddle. The other countries agreeing to join in are considering joining the Euro or due to go back to get authorization from their parliaments. The UK does not HAVE to give away sovereign powers to Brussels, controlled by France and Germany, and the truth is the UK voting public would never agree to it.

    Sure Europe is a big trading partner and it is in our interest to see Europe thrive. But that does not mean bending over and giving our largest income and control of our fiscal policy to Brussels. Germany and France are desperate to get their hands on the money generated by the City, as London is the most important financial centre in Europe. But the Euro is in trouble because of bad decisions made by the senior members of the Eurozone. France and Germany bent the rules to allow countries to join the Euro when they did not meet the basic criteria. Why would we want them to dictate our fiscal policy?

    The UK trades with the world not just Europe.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    #8 Ogaga
    You are overlooking the fact that if we had not loaned Eire the money, they would still have had to paid their outstanding trading account.

    Why loan money to a country that could very, very easlily have defaulted and we would have lost everything. And why shouldn't interest be paid on the loan? No one else outside the EU wanted to help you out. Can you loan money free of interest charges?

    But, as always, you never think the thing through. No suprise there then!

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Yuleno

    Yankeyboy & teaboy-you need to look at stock over a longer period rather than as a speculator,because you are not speculator are you.At least not with capital you're not.
    ElaineB -how does it feel to be more vulnerable to becoming a satellite of the USA with all the loss of sovreignity that entails.The landed class of the UK will lose everything for the people before they learn about the modern world.Do you want to buy some tickets for the long jump at the London olympics?

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @11 If you were to read our newspapers - prior to the Eurozone crisis - you would think the USA was situated where Ireland is and Europe on the other side of the world. We have always had closer links with the US and that's fine by me. I am not zenophobic and welcome links with anywhere in the world.

    You know full well that the UK is the financial capital of Europe - many would say the financial capital of the world - and that is not going to change anytime soon.

    I dont understand your point about the 'landed-classes' whatever that is supposed to mean. When I speak to Argentines with no travel experience they seem to have a view of the UK fixed somewhere between the 1930' and 50's.

    I have tickets for the Olympic games, thanks. Why not come over for the Olympics and open your mind a little?

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • O gara

    THe Europeans are still in a serious mess but I imagine with Legarde in the IMF they will share the pain and get though with this.
    Christy The City of London goverment lent the money to Ireland so that it could continue buying their produce.The Irish took the hit and are on the road to recovery if no more outside events hit them.
    The City of London was indeed ONCE the financial capital of the World but lost that title to New York many decades ago.
    It remains a seriously important player but ironically Cameron could have given it a devastating blow today.The City of London needs Europe a hell of a lot more than vica versa.If Sarkozy and Merkel save the Euro do you think Frankfurt and Paris will allow London be the financial capital of Europe for long Dont think so.
    This will be aserious opportunity for Argentine diplomacy.The City has vever been as isolated in Europe and the French are particularly pissed off with the rosbif

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Fido Dido

    Cameron is nothing more than a loud mouth and toyboy. He's showing off to his (blind) people how tough he is on the Euro project while on the otherside playing them and defend his London buddies. He is succeeding. There are thousands of trolls out there like the ones from the UK that comment here so tough rather than facing the truth what is ugly.

    “Cameron shows yet again the so called uk is nothing but the City of London..Alec Salmond has another serious tool in his hands now ”

    True. That's what those british trolls cannot and won't see nor admit. It doesn't fit their “ego”. Another reality they won't face is..British banks (London financial city, that's all what they have) are broke. Again, that's why interest rates are close to zero and why there is Q.E. (buy up the debts and dump it on the national debt and push austerity measures on the people to pay it back).

    Here..The nation that is close to 1000% IN DEBT. source Morgan Stanley (same banksters that will convince you that it's fine but is a problem when it's in their interest to be “honest” with statistics, you understand the game?)

    http://www.businessinsider.com/g10-countries-by-total-debt-to-gdp-2011-12

    what goes around, comes around. Ignore it and shall get burned.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    Argentina has no muscle outside of an Argentine's mind.

    Nothing has changed. The UK was not in the Euro and is still not in the Euro. Don't you think that if it was in the UK's best interest they would have joined? It isn't.

    Germany is pissed off because it wanted the UK to share the cost of bailing out the Eurozone. Now it will fall squarely on the shoulders of the Germans.

    But this was the first mile of a very long road. A lot has yet to happen.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Teaboy2

    @14 100% in debt lol, what kind of dumb brain economist wannabe are you, their is not such think as being 100% in debt. in fact, the national debt is around 64% GDP dumbass.

    And as for us being blind to not be part of the new treaty, well let me spell out to you what it would mean if we had signed. France and Germany would have control over our banks, our finanical sector (which is the biggest contributer to our economy) and it would have mean every UK citizen paying even more taxes then we currently do. Plus our government would not have control of its own economy or finances. Yeah argentinians might like to have other nations taxing them and spending such taxes on countries outside of argentina, and argentina might like having no control over its own finances or economy. But us Brits do not want to pay more taxes and have less money in our pockets, we do not want France and Germany in control of our countries Banks, Finances and economy either.

    The only reason France and Germany want control of our financial sector economy and to tax us more is because the strengh of the pound and money created by our economy, financial sector and taxation is to simply bust their own coffers and bail out the Euro. Why the hell should we bail out the Euro, it is not our currency, it is not even our problem its france, germany and the other EuroZone countries problem not ours, so why should us brits pay for the mess they themselves created. Even the creater of the EURO currency admitted it was doomed to fail from the start, thats says it all really.

    If you think where so dumb, then tell CFK you what argentina to Sign up to the stupid treaty so you can pay extra taxes, have France and Germany control your economy and fianancial sector and finances and see what you think about it them. Muppet.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • O gara

    Comment removed by the editor.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    The Scots realized decades ago that the British Government was no friend of theirs.
    Westminster wrecked England but the Scots at Westminster had the sense to isolate their country from the ruination that the British government had planned for England.
    English, enjoy the future isolation from the rest of Europe...and the world.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    “Even the creater of the EURO currency admitted it was doomed to fail from the start, thats says it all really”. Yes, he warned it would fail if the strict criteria for joining was not adhered to. And that is exactly what happened.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • O gara

    When you read the reacion of the European newspapers it is truly astonishing how isolated they have left themselves.
    El Pais :“Europe advances only UK left isolated”
    ABC :“A new European Union is born without the UK”
    Le Monde: “More insular than ever Sarkozy calls Camerons bluff”
    Le Figaro: “Camerons veto marks new era of isolation for Britain”
    Spiegel on line: “Auf Wiedersehen England”
    Bild: “Euro is more important than the Brits”
    El Mundo:“UK isolated in Europe”
    New York Times: “the treaty left Britain as isolated as it has ever been”

    Argentina needs to extend its diplomatic attack to the European capitals as soon as possible they are all on their own in London right now

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    Makes you wonder how on earth Switzerland has survived.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    England ,has never been a part of Europe, won't be ...!!

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    The only interest here, is not Cameron’s decision, but the long term effects on the European union as a whole, that’s the fact here, argie bloggers are just throwing mud and anti British,
    Great Britain, [for the uneducated] is a lot richer than you think.
    Great Britain alone, and of its own back, bailed out Ireland, and others, [loans on the side]
    40 odd billion promised to the IMF, the papers and TV today stated that the total cash sum the UK pays into Europe, including the ECHR, and Conscription fees, amounts to more or less just over 53 billion, plus 12 billion for overseas aid, =Germany and France wants, and have always wanted a UNITED STATES OF EUROPE, and that is public knowledge and a fact, every year more and more [directives] come down the line, to be imposed on us, more and more sovereignty is chipped away every year,, the ECB could help to bail out Greece and Italy, but Germany refused this, personal German reasons, until she gets what she wants, the agreement last night, in fact, is primarily for the euro countries, and does not concern us,, but as suspected, those that go ahead with it, will create a new treaty, a fiscal union, this will amount to all euro countries paying extra taxes straight to the European union, a levy on all transactions, and each will have their budgets inspected, before they put it to the country each year, another true step towards total integration,
    And the British want none of it, [so the long term]
    we will a referendum , the result will be the British will pull out of the European union altogether, we will still trade with them, and all the other things the rest of the world does, except for the fact we will control our own destiny, and not Germanys , [truth or bullshit]
    Like the German reporter, stated, lets wait and see what pans out, right or wrong, the British are an important country , not to be ignored,
    LETS see, what happens, when the new club starts to impose, its will, and what effect it will have on us,
    Just a pe

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    how can we assimilate a country like UK ?? is it possible ??
    let's look at some numbers ;

    FOREIGN DEBT PER PERSON :

    UK = £ 119,580
    -----------------------
    Germany = £ 50,059
    France = £ 66,508
    Italy = £ 32,875
    Spain = £ 41,366
    Portugal = £ 38,081
    Greece = £ 38,073
    -----------------------------------------
    is it possible ?? ..... not possible !!

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    If the UK was not an important country they would not have tried so hard to get us to pitch in with the rescue plan (not that there is one). They needed the money the UK makes from The City, otherwise only Germany has any real hard cash and the German voters are reluctant to put anymore money in.

    The Eurozone is in crisis and the UK are not in the Euro. Why when the countries in the Eurozone are locked in a burning building would we want to jump in with them?

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Teaboy2

    @O'gara #17 “Teaboy you are such an illiterate on every level not just economic.Greece for instance national debt is 102% of its GDP.Italy 118% and the City is well over 80% heading south.”

    The only person that needs an education here is you. your using the debts of a countries financial market to make out that the countries sovereign debt is more than it is. I find it very hard to believe that the cities debts alone are 80% of the nations GDP when the nations sovereign debt is only around 64% of the total GDP. City debts are not nation debts you dumb ass, they are the debts of financial institutions, and your forgetting all about the money that is owed to the city that is far greater than the cities debt. Clearly you have no idea how banks and financail institutions make billions in profit from lending money each year and your post is evidence of that. Also you said the UK was 100% in debt. I said their is not such thing as being 100% in debt, as even if the national debts was 100% of GDP the debt can still rise, in 1945 it was over 200% of the UK total GDP, so the amount of debt a country can be in is techinically infinite, it is never 100% in debt as you had claimed. There is a massive difference to having debts of 100% GDP to being 100% in debt dumbass.

    As for me being illiterate, well as i explained time and time again i am dsylexic, do you even know what that means, as its means i struggle to read, to spell, and to use grammar. Though i notice your not exactly the best speller or grammatically correct either. I geuss you constant remarks about my spelling despite me being clear about my condition on here many times now including today on another article, makes you discriminative of people with disabilities, you moron.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Best decision that Cameron has ever made whilst P.M.

    This could be the start of the withdrawal by the UK from the EU. I do hope so and we can stop the obscene payments we have to give to this bunch of no-hopers.

    Yes, it may be difficult for a while but we will survive. And if Salmond and his sycophants want to break away from the UK then let them. That will be another £1,800 for every English man, woman and child that we won't have to pay to the ungrateful Scots.

    Then we will see how far they get with their 'European' friends.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Fido Dido

    teaboy imbecile, never typed that I'm an economist and never typed that I'm pretending to be one. An economist is nothing more than a “thinker” that lives with “theories”. Since you can't read, I typed it again for you, those are the “numbers” from a group that works at Morgan Stanley , one of the “experts”.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • zethe

    “The City of London was indeed ONCE the financial capital of the World but lost that title to New York many decades ago.”

    Err, it only JUST got that title about 10 years ago.

    Idiot.

    Fido Dido: Without trolling, in your opinion what would you have thought would have been better for our leader to do? Give in to Europe? My memory is quite bad but i thought you was one of the people who was anti-euro?

    Serious question.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    ** 27 C.R

    UK has already ~10 % GDP Budget Deficit ..means that busted fiscal.
    can you finance Scots/Wales/N.Ir ?? ..you can not after that !!

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo2

    **27 C.R

    Greece has ~ 10 % GDP Budget Deficit as same as UK has...
    BUT
    obviously that the Greek people is more active than you.. !!

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    How was that old ethnocentric headline from the London Times?

    Ohhh yes…………..:

    “Heavy Fog Over Channel, Continent Cut Off”

    Chuckle chuckle®

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Yuleno

    I think Cameron is dyslexic as well but then he is not looking after the UK's long term interests.Wasnt there enough said in the UK,buy the conservatives,regarding Brown's failure to prevent banking practices which began to undermine confidence in financial activity,and led to the crisis,of which confidence is the factor which needs restoring.Does anyone seriously think,given that at no time until it was too late did any of the Tories highlight problems,that this British regime is worthy of any trust.Certainly Europe doesn't does it.It is not the city of London and its earnings thats at issue it's it's dubious behaviour when it had a name for integrity

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Beef

    There is no need for us to be in the EU. If we left we would still be in the EEA and this is where the majority of benefits to the UK reside.

    Hmmm, low progressive taxation, personal success rewarded (and not distributed to those who fail or couldn't be bothered) and the state as a provider of healthcare and a safety net in case people need picking up.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    Cameron had to protect the financial service industry for the UK. Germany wanted the UK to help foot the bill for the failing Euro. But we are not, never have been and never will be in the Euro. The one good decision Gordon Brown made.

    Why should a country not in the Euro give away the control of their economy and fiscal policy to countries in the Euro? It makes no sense.

    When Sarkozy stops sulking he will have to come to terms with the fact that Germany now runs the Eurozone.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Fido Dido

    all the banks of all the “advanced nations” are broke by gambling and they want us to pay for it no matter how much we will suffer. They don't care.

    “the fact that Germany now runs the Eurozone.”

    Germany ran the show from the begin. They wanted the Euro, because it was the cheapest way to reunite west with east germany. Now they are united and Germany's economy is stronger than ever, until their expensive German mark will return and that's why they want more free trade agreements for example with Mercosul/Mercosur and to get closer to their biggest (trade) partner outsite Europe and in the Americas..Brazil and compete with them head to head against China. Germany haves what they need and they have what Germany needs. Same with China etc etc.

    back to the debt of the UK and why it won't matter much in main future as what it's today. Max Keiser explains it much better
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWZKUgjkshM&feature=player_embedded

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    26 Teaboy2
    as i explained time and time again i am dsylexic
    [you never ever have to justify your self on here,
    We are forever telling Argies abet their picking on errors, when they themselves do the very same thing,]
    /////////////
    , 30 geo (#)

    UK has already ~10 % GDP Budget Deficit ..means that busted fiscal.
    can you finance Scots/Wales/N.Ir ?? ..you can not after that !!

    [more miss info]

    The UK has debts, so does the world, as a whole,
    Great Britain and England is solvent [titter titter]]

    As for our other UK members, [all British]
    Scotland and Wales and northern Ireland,
    The UK finances all 3 of them, as we are the bigger and more wealthier of the [4]
    This money is shared, ,,,,,,,,,,

    Any more silly info,
    If we withdraw from the EU/Gravy train, at a stroke the UK would be billions and billions better off,
    Yes life would be difficult at first while we sort things out,
    But in the end, WE will control our own destiny just like argentine [would we not ]

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    ** 34 Beef

    UK “” Tax Wedge “” is normal which is /2010 = 32.7 %
    as labour cost tax burden !!
    this number is (26.2 % =Aussie) ..(19.8 % =Korea)..(30.3% =Canada)
    ( 16.9 % = N.Zealand)...( 29.3 % = Ireland) .......etc
    BUT
    in the Q-2 /2011
    the foreign investment into UK which is mostly speculative capital
    as Money In = 51 Billions US $ .....Money Out = 46 Billions US $.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo2

    **37 brit

    UK is insolvent.....this is reality !!
    paying back debts !! ..HOW ?? ..by way of City and it's Hot Money !!

    your Economy is insolvent becouse you can not produce “” tax“”.

    paying back by new borrowings is just like the “” drug addiction“” !
    you know the outcomes of this addiction.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    you know the outcomes of this addiction [yes argentina we do dont we]

    you cant have it both ways.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    Nicolas Sarkozy said that Britain made “unacceptable” demands.
    A French source also said that Cameron is “like a man who goes to a wife swapping party without his wife”. Ooh la la.

    Au revoir to the French aircraft carrier Brits.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo2

    **40 brit

    if you think that once Argentina was the good sample for you
    then no problem for me !!

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • xbarilox

    yepe, Isolation, how sad, I can't take this anymore.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Room101

    It is very early days yet.

    Dec 09th, 2011 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    Hurrah - Glorious Isolation again :-)

    Two speed perhaps - but which will be the faster ??

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    Cameron fought bravely for City bankers, hedgies, spivs, and some other old boy mates.
    Don't you worry about isolation common Brit, I heard they found water on Mars.

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    well at least argentina wont claim it .

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 12:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • xbarilox

    @ 47 can you be that sure briton?

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 12:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Forgetit87

    “100% in debt lol, what kind of dumb brain economist wannabe are you, their is not such think as being 100% in debt”

    What the what?

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 01:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Fido Dido

    as you can read Forget, now you understand why Europe is not capable of solving it's problem with real solutions. The Generation of the late 90's and the new generation have the same mentality as the clown who typed that there is no such a thing as being 100% in debt, it's impossible to happen. Because there are thousands of tools like him, they will believe everything what their idiot leaders says and they will follow them blindly. sounds familiar? It sounds exaggerated but history is repeating.

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 04:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Teaboy2

    @28 No theyy are not the numbers from morgan stanley they are purely your intepretation of the figures.

    Lets have a look at those numbers shall we - heres the link again - http://www.businessinsider.com/g10-countries-by-total-debt-to-gdp-2011-12 (by the way its actually an article from a business magazine not from morgan stanley.)

    Household debts - 100% of GDP approx
    Government Debts - 80% of GDP Approx
    Finanical debt - 600% of GDP Approx
    Non - Financial Debt - 150% GDP Approx

    However what the chart fails to show is the timescale of those debts, it also fails to show the debts owed to the finanical sector along with the interest on debts owed to the finanical sector. But hey take the house hold debts and the geovernement debts from the financial sector debts and the finanicial sector debt is down too 420% of GDP, now you have all the other non UK based debtors and foreign banks and foreign countries that owe money to the UK financial sector, unfortunately it fails to show you what that is, but i can gaurantee you that it puts the financial sector in profit of around 10% of our countries total GDP income. After all the finanical sector makes up for 10% of our GDP.

    Perhaps you care to explan how you came to the conculsion that the UK was 100% in debt from those same figures when i see nothing in those figures to say that we are. If anything they are incomplete as you do not have the figures showing total input from debts actually owed to the UK financial sector only the debts that Uk financial sector, house holds, government and non financial debts totals compared to GDP, thats all that chart is. So in other words you have an incomplete picture of the total outgoings and total incomings and as such without knowing the incomings you can not see if their is a profit being made, when in reality they are making a profit.

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 05:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • O gara

    26 teaboy you really are so Germanic I refer to your country as the City because your rulers dont consider anything else important such as the welfare of its poor people.In the North of Ireland for example an unemployed person gets about 58 euro a week but in the bankrupt republic his equivalent gets 190.But the Irish dont need armed forces to ensure its financial services are taken seriously all over the world do they.
    As for the poor delinquent who imagines London was only surpassed a decade ago by New York well what can you say except the Sun is obviously a.wonderful propaganda machine far better than Radio Moscow ever was

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 08:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ed

    The British People, don't be shivered cold in Britannia island,migrate,
    migrate please toward more warmer & beatiful places like Australia,
    New Zealand...let the her Majesty holds a turn on her totaly owned
    ground England.

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 09:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Yuleno

    The teaboy makes lovely tea but can't make coffee, and remarks like'its early days yet', really mean'im speechless' and Europe is stunned by Cameron failure to negotiate.

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 09:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    ** 51 Tea

    these numbers(2010) NET revised in September/2011 :

    UK : (non financial numbers)

    TOTAL DEBT : 322 % GDP
    government : 90 % GDP
    corporate : 126 % GDP
    household : 106 % GDP
    -------------------------------------------

    GREECE : ( non financial numbers)

    TOTAL DEBT : 262 % GDP
    government : 132 % GDP
    corporate : 65 % GDP
    household : 65 % GDP

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 10:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • stick up your junta

    In the North of Ireland for example an unemployed person gets about 58 euro a week but in the bankrupt republic his equivalent gets 190

    Do you want to go there GA GA?

    Dec. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Argentina's jobless rate is falling in part because the government is paying people such as Paulino Villalba to stay off the rolls of unemployed.

    ``I wish I could say I have a job,'' Villalba, a 42-year-old former systems technician for BellSouth Corp.'s Argentine unit, said during a protest of unemployed people in Buenos Aires last week.

    President Nestor Kirchner's government says the 150 pesos ($51) it gives Villalba each month to help him support his six children is the equivalent of collecting a paycheck for a job. Villalba, who has been out of work for two years, has received the payments from the government for about six months.

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 10:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ed

    probably greek mastica has more willing than cheap guiness beer.

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    certainly that the Mediterranean Countries' people is more energic
    than Northern ones.....!!

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ed

    What a silent, I can't see any new comments on.Again I say
    You are not wanted in Europe and European Union,
    Don't be shivered cold and wait in Britannia island vainly, migrate
    please to your own beautiful countries Australia & New Zealand.

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    also no need “” visa “” ....!!

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Yuleno

    The Brits are silent here and in europe

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    48 xbarilox (#)
    @ 47 can you be that sure Briton?
    [to be truthful no]

    [financial services
    We have the biggest as you all know,
    Germany and France put together have less than 10% from London,

    So that’s why Germany and France wants control [simple mathematics]
    And thus so Cameron was correct to say no,,
    This will pan out over months and a year, its about giving up more of your sovereignty
    And powers to an unelected government in euro land,

    Britain will survive and prosper, it has to,
    We already have money, most of it tied up,
    If the euro sinks we are all fxcked anyway, so banks must protect them selves [now]
    British banks have about 37 billion foreign debts, , so they have to save, they have the government and the bank of England to fall back on, most European countries have no one,

    Some say, Germany and others will forbid European banks from working or doing buisines with British banks unless they conform to EU, regulations, and this will hurt the UK.

    But what they forget to tell you was this,
    In London we have big German French Spanish Denmark and the rest, of their banks doing business,
    Are they really going to stop their own banks doing business with THEIR own banks,
    And what about the rest of the world banks,, [no comment on these]

    And as for poor Greece and others, the main reason they will never get out of debt, is because the bloody interest is killing them,
    I think all interest should be stopped, and they should be helped to pay back the capital sum first, then talk abet interest later, but the greedy governments, the banks , IMF all have different ideas.

    Just thoughtful thought.
    .61 Yuleno [not for long ]

    Dec 10th, 2011 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Yuleno

    Britain will survive and prosper, it has to,
    We already have money, most of it tied up,
    The key remarks here.It has to.Sorry the world will not end if it doesn't.That is exactly what you need to address,the UK is no longer the centre of the world.In fact it never was,it was it's military and financial power that was greater than it's size.
    Second key remark.We already have money.What you are focussing on here is your capital wealth.But nowadays other state are getting more wealthy than the UK and this wealth is tied up in places where the population have a healthy attitude to your history.How the UK took assets on the cheap which now will haunt your state and it's dealings with these countries.And this wealth is beyond the control of democratic influence,it's the other way around.It controls you and if the cost of retaining the Malvinas,globally,outweighs it's return,it will be returned to Argentina in the best circumstances that can be negotiated.
    Briton,are you alone here?

    Dec 11th, 2011 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    ** 62 brit

    June 2011 numbers :

    UK BANKS TOTAL FOREIGN CLAIMS ON BORROWING BASIS :
    939.570 millions US $
    from European banks : 603.120 millions US $
    from non European banks :336.450 millions US $

    FROM SOME EUROPEAN ORIGIN COUNTRIES BORROWING :
    Swiss : 87.651 millions US $
    Germany : 169.129 millions US $
    France : 160.395 millions US $
    Italy : 19.959 millions US $
    Spain : 46.656 millions US $

    TO SOME EUROPEAN COUNTRIES CREDITS :
    Swiss : 31.613 millions US $
    Germany : 51.801 millions US $
    France : 70.563 millions US $
    Italy : 168.903 millions US $
    Spain : 67.502 millions US $.

    Dec 11th, 2011 - 10:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo2

    as we see from the numbers UK banks have borrowing heavily from
    Germany / France /Swiss.... and lending to the some meditarrenean
    countries to make profit ...what the clever guys ...but game is over !!

    Dec 11th, 2011 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    the numbers tell us how the some ( !)--not all-- quasi clever,greedy guys
    sabotaged the EU....!!

    Dec 11th, 2011 - 11:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    No one but Argentines seem fixated on the idea that the UK has an empire and is the centre of the world. When I am back next year I am going to take a look at the history books and curriculum you are taught in school because it is about 80 years out of date.

    I absolutely agree that there are emerging economies and it is a good thing to. The world is ever-changing. But one thing we can all be certain of is that Argentina will never be a developed economy - as it once was - or a big player until it gets rid of outdated fascist-based governments.

    Dec 11th, 2011 - 11:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Yuleno

    Elaine-as you would know,each culture has a 'way of thinking',and I refer to the way the Brits think.I know and so does most of the world knows the Brits have no empire.they merely occupy some territories.
    Have you taught that the way the Brit economy is going, and employment is not improving.you might be better concentrating on your work than reading Argentinian textbooks

    Dec 11th, 2011 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    #68 Yuleno
    The British know they no longer have an empire.

    They do however have a mature Commonwealth and plenty of friends around the globe, despite your protests to the opposite.

    I am sure ElaineB will not allow her work to suffer while she reads some fantasies which comrise the Argentinean history books if the current lies are anything to go by.

    Dec 11th, 2011 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @68 “you might be better concentrating on your work than reading Argentinian textbooks” All part of my work. : )

    Dec 11th, 2011 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ed

    Did you read this book ?

    http://www.hurstpub.co.uk/BookDetails.aspx?BookId=637

    Dec 11th, 2011 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    #71 ed
    No, I haven't read the book, BUT, I have been to South Australia and visited the aborinal areas (you need special permission for this).

    Just what are you getting at?

    Dec 11th, 2011 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ed

    (#) 72 Amigo
    Thanks for your reply.
    Interesting.
    Whereas you can visit all Indian Regions without permission in USA.

    Dec 11th, 2011 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Yuleno

    Dear me ElaineB it's your job and you need to come to Argentina next year to check things out.Isn't it a fast changing area of study.Hopefully the other part of your work is less time consuming.
    I assume you are interested in modern history which is more subject to change such as the history of the EU etc?

    Dec 11th, 2011 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    #73 ed
    I still don't know what, if anything, you are getting at.

    No-one in South Australia, including white Australians are allowed into the Aboriginal reserves. It wasn't just me that had to apply, and be approved by the Aboriginal Elders, it applies to all non-aboriginals.

    I think it's so the Aboriginals know that we are not just going to gawk at them, we had a genuine interest in them and their welfare and their ancestry.

    Dec 11th, 2011 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @74 PART of my work. : )

    Dec 11th, 2011 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    Briton,are you alone here?

    we will see who is alone when the sparks start to fly,

    Dec 11th, 2011 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • xbarilox

    @ 77 the spark of Prometheus?

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 01:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    ah how the envious [wish]

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Yuleno

    #76 I know you said part of your work.
    #79 it's been a long time since you had just a thought.I will have sparks instead since they are already flying in Europe.The French are getting like the British.Now there's two Europe's,one in Europe the other floating toward the USA.Soon the Uk will be closer to America than Las Malvinas
    Troubles Troubles!

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    and that can only be a good thing,
    the trouble with the french, is that they are TO french,
    a two speed europe, yet they will both get their, mearely arriving at different times,
    now thats a timeless thought .

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 01:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Yuleno

    Ha ha the French are to French
    The Germans to german
    The luxembourgos to.......I nearly forgot.they don't matter,they're no threat?

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Be serious

    Alec Salmond has another serious tool in his hands now

    Hahahahah!
    Always thought that about old Salmond.

    Dec 14th, 2011 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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