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Argentina planning a Malvinas war museum for the 30th anniversary

Monday, December 12th 2011 - 05:02 UTC
Full article 94 comments

Under the banner of “Malvinas Year, memory justice and truth” the administration of President Cristina Fernandez is working for a major rally and demonstration of ‘rank and file” Malvinas veterans in Buenos Aires next 2 April, 30th anniversary of the Falklands/Malvinas invasion. Read full article

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  • Redhoyt

    No military aspect / no Galtieri !

    A typical Argentine museum then - no facts !

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 05:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • fermin

    @1: Well, this museums are not typical if you compare them with the Argentina of the 80s or 90s.

    Nowadays yes, they are starting to be typical, thanks god, as typical as the UK living on colonies and other land's workers and resources.

    And what do you mean with “No Galtieri?” What story do you think we are told in here? Do you think Galtieri is not appearing in this stories argentinians tell?

    You can build a whole irracional story also with facts. The whole world knows what Colonialism is and under what “facts” and philosophies it legalizes its atrocities.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 05:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    Vermin - you're out of date. The UK doesn't have any colonies any more. We do have a modern relationship with our Overseas Territories, all of whom are self-determining.

    Official ! :-)

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 06:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • xbarilox

    @ 1 & 3
    what do we have here? yes, the British hen complicated again. life is easy Redhoyt, don't lose yourself in these stories ;)

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 06:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • fermin

    Yes, the modern thing is the name only, maybe I made a mistake, I should have used the word “neo-colonialism”, I thought you would reply something wiser.

    To be honest, I see this little bedtime story of self determination as a Self-determination to practice “neo-colonialism”. I think I should go to the buckingham palace, have a child and tell him to be self-determined to live in a tiny little cattle on the palace garden, enjoying in Argentina the profit of selling the royal family intimate photos, of course I will give my son a little percent of this ;) so he can be self-determined to stay loyal.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 06:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    Self determination merely involves choices. The Falklanders make those choices.

    Job done :-)

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 06:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • xbarilox

    “Britain faces being reduced to the status of a “pygmy” nation after David Cameron’s decision to veto a new EU treaty, Nick Clegg has warned.” A pygmy nation hahaha

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nick-clegg/8949920/Nick-Clegg-attacks-Camerons-EU-treaty-veto-as-bad-for-jobs-and-families.html

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 07:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    “Spanish settlers created the hacienda where native Peruvians and African slaves worked the land and raised cattle. Agriculture and cattle raising changed during the colony, the creation of the hacienda increased productivity and profitability making the owners of haciendas the new bourgeois class in Peru. The arrival of the Spanish brought new agricultural products such as rice, grapes, sugar and wheat among others and animals such as chicken, cow, donkey, sheep and horse.

    During the Inca Empire all economic transactions were by exchange or reciprocity and in order to facilitate trade the Spanish introduced the currency in Peru making its first appearance between 1568 and 1570. The Crown imposed a trade monopoly in its colonies, meaning that trade was only allowed between Spain and a viceroyalty, trade was not permitted among viceroyalties.”

    ”In 1828, the United Provinces government granted Vernet all of East Falkland including all its resources, and exempted him from taxation if a colony could be established within three years. He took settlers, including British Captain Matthew Brisbane (who had sailed to the islands earlier with Weddell), and before leaving once again sought permission from the British Consulate in Buenos Aires. The British asked for a report for the British government on the islands, and Vernet asked for British protection should they return.“
    ”Vernet later attempted to return to the Islands but was refused permission to return. The British Crown reneged on promises and refused to recognise rights granted by Captain Onslow at the time of the reoccupation. Eventually, after traveling to London, Vernet received paltry compensation for horses shipped to Port Louis many years before.[9] G.T. Whittington obtained a concession of 6,400 acres (26 km2) from Vernet that he later exploited with the formation of the Falkland Islands Commercial Fishery and Agricultural Association
    ”Welcome
    The Falkland Islands Company owes its origins to a contract signe

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 08:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • RedBaron

    “The museum will not emphasize on the military side or aspects of the war”

    Maybe this will be the only war museum in the world to employ Basil Fawlty imitators running around whispering “Don't mention the war”!

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    In 1828 - BA had no right or authority to grant anything over land it did not own - Prat !

    BUT Vernet DID get permission from the British - thankyou for mentioning it!

    As for the issue between Vernet and Lowcay, I am unable to find a reliable source. I am working on it :-)

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • M_of_FI

    Just two quick comments:

    1. When an official Government project requires the word “Truth” in the title it is a massive propaganda push, where a new truth has been invented. The word truth is included to try and convince the masses that the new “truth” is the truth, when in fact it is a lie.

    2. So a monument regarding human rights, which (in essence) celebrates the denial of someone else's human rights is adjacent to another human rights monument. This appears to be distrubingly hypocritical, which is quite typical of Argentina.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Hellcat

    Will not be much in the museum, you left it all in the Falklands did you NOT!! just a few bull shit stories I bet.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    I will definitely go and visit when it opens.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    #13 ElaineB
    But don't mention the war!

    You couldn't make this up - still it will go with the medal for losing the war.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @ 14 I won't! : )

    I am endlessly fascinated with the way the Argentine government manipulates the truth and how willing CFK's devotees are to be manipulated.

    I am sure you know that not all Argentines are like the rabid posters on here.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Islas Malvinas

    @ 15 Why wouldn´t you mention the war?

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    54% Elaine, 54% :-)

    “Britain faces being reduced to the status of a “pygmy” nation after David Cameron’s decision to veto a new EU treaty, Nick Clegg has warned”

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Papamoa

    I LOVE the title, the word Truth from an argentine politian is a contradiction in itself!
    The TRUTH is the malvinas NEVER existed do not exist now and will not exist inthe future!!!!
    But I will wish the argentines a lot of Luck in getting to the truth, just open your eyes.
    Long Live the Falklands.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    Um. 1/3rd of people eligible to vote. That is about 10m. Believe me, not all of the people that voted for her are as blindly devoted to her as some of the posters on here. Whatever their reasons she was elected but not by 54% of the voting public.

    Why are you spamming that all over the threads? It is irrelevent as Nick Clegg is pretty irrelevent. Nick Clegg is a Europhile representing a Europhile party with no chance of being elected as a majority government. Interestingly, 49% of LibDems - to recap, Lib Dems are PRO Europe - believe Cameron was right not to sign the treaty. Overwhelmingly, the voting public support Cameron. (Some are ridiculously anti-Europe which I think is misguided).

    When we refused to join the Euro, for all the reasons evident now, the same naysayers said that the UK would be marginalised and lose trading power. Now we know that didn't happen. It was a tough call but ultimately bailing out the Euro is in our interest but NOT our responsibility. And it certainly is not in our interest to throw our own markets on the bonfire that is the Eurozone.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • stick up your junta

    If they ask nicely maybe we can loan them one for the museum

    Captured aircraftAfter the Argentine surrender eleven Pucarás (four of them in flying condition) were captured by British forces. Six were taken back to the United Kingdom, as follows:

    A-515 (ZD485) – Royal Air Force Museum Cosford.[10]
    A-517 – Privately owned. Possibly shipped to the Channel Islands.[11]
    A-522 (8768M) – North East Aircraft Museum (on loan from the Fleet Air Arm Museum, Yeovilton).[12]
    A-528 (8769M) – Norfolk and Suffolk Aviation Museum (on loan from Museum of Army Flying, Middle Wallop).[13]
    A-533 (ZD486) – Boscombe Down Aviation Collection (Cockpit Section only).[14]
    A-549 (ZD487) – Imperial War Museum Duxford.[15]

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britishbulldog

    It will be a big museum then wont it NOT. We can give a few photos to hang on the small walls if you like; you will not like them they all show a demoralized army hanging their heads in shame at what we did to them.

    Here is a few of them.
    http://www.falklandswar.org.uk/images/roy_burley_gallery/index.htm

    Notice the Flag over Government House and what it actually what it is. In addition, notice all that abandoned ammunition and stripped aircraft when you lot held your hands up and surrendered.

    http://www.falklandswar.org.uk/images/roy_burley_gallery/index.htm

    http://www.falklandswar.org.uk/images/roy_burley_gallery/index.htm

    http://www.falklandswar.org.uk/images/roy_burley_gallery/index.htm

    http://www.falklandswar.org.uk/images/roy_burley_gallery/index.htm

    http://www.falklandswar.org.uk/images/roy_burley_gallery/index.htm

    http://www.falklandswar.org.uk/images/roy_burley_gallery/index.htm

    http://www.falklandswar.org.uk/images/roy_burley_gallery/index.htm

    http://www.falklandswar.org.uk/images/roy_burley_gallery/index.htm

    Just thought I would remind you Argys what is in store for you if you ever try anything like you did in 1982. Please feel free to copy them and hang them in your small museum. Have a nice day.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    Elaine, 54% victory is quite remarkable no matter how you want to spin it.

    21 Britishbulldog
    I was against the war but since you insist, hang this one in in your small museum collection. :-)

    http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:CaboBatista.jpg

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • SamSalzman

    Looks like Mrs Kirchner is trying to build yet another state-sponsored mouthpiece for her country's propaganda.

    #2 Ok then, practise what you preach and get back to Spain.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @22 Not spinning just giving the true perspective of the 54%.

    30m eligible to vote. Roughly 10m didn't vote. Roughly 10 million voted for other candidates. Roughly 10m voted for CFK. She was elected but not by 54% of eligible Argentine voters.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Islas Malvinas

    @23 We fought Spain to become independent and gained recognition. There´s no turning back.

    You´re a colonizing population in a colonized territory. As british people, you have the right of self-determination, only that you do have it on british territoy, not on argentinian.

    So you can leave and enjoy your self determination rights on british territory, or you can stay and get over the fact that the only people that has the right of self determination on argentinian territory is the argentinian people.

    Big hug.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (24) ElaineB

    You say:
    ”Not spinning just giving the true perspective of the 54%.
    30m eligible to vote. Roughly 10 m didn't vote. Roughly 10 million voted for other candidates. Roughly 10m voted for CFK. She was elected but not by 54% of eligible Argentine voters.”

    I say:
    Just giving the true perspective of the 54%.
    28.8m eligible to vote. Roughly 6.4m didn't vote. Roughly 10 million voted for other candidates (3.6m voted for Cristina’s Socialist allies and 3m voted oter two Peronist candidates:-). Roughly 12m voted for CFK. She was elected but not by 54% of eligible Argentine voters………..
    She and her political model were elected by far more than 54% of the eligible Argentine voters!

    http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elecciones_presidenciales_de_Argentina_de_2011#Resultados

    So ElaineB…………….., as anybody can infer from your simple and straightforward statement above, there is some difficulty in justifiably assigning to it the forth of the epithets you applied to that statement, inasmuch as the precise connection between the information you correlate in said statement and the facts, insofar they can be determined and demonstrated as such, cause epistemological problems of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than they, reasonably, can be expected to bear.

    In other words; you are spinning (lying)…………….. again.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    You would start a fight in an empty room.

    Be careful about calling people liars.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (27) ElaineB

    I know this is a difficult concept to get across to a woman but…………........ Ermm……..................... You didn’t exactly tell the truth.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    #27 ElaineB

    No, I am afraid that you are wrong here. Starting a fight anywhere against unknown odds (there could be an elephant in the room) is completely beyond these Argies. :o)

    But yes, I do know many Argentinos, some of whom I call friends.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Papamoa

    The Falklanders choose to be a British overseas territory FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    The malvinas have never existed and will NEVER exist FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    The country called argentina cannot force the UK to negotiate FACT!!!!!!
    The peso is failing and argentinas economy has nose dived FACT!!!!!!!
    The argentine politians are corrupt and inept also a FACT!!!!!!!!!!
    Long Live the Falklands.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Islas Malvinas

    The world does not recognize no self determination rights to british citizens in MAlvinas. FACT!!!!
    Malvinas is the same as Falklands you genius! FACT!!!
    Argentina cannot force the UK do anything. FACT! But international preasure and the economy may the UK change its mind. FACT!!!
    Argentina economy doesnt change anything on the Malvinas question... it´s not Argentina the one that has something to loose...
    Politicions are corrupt. FACT!!! So what?
    Long live Malvinas!

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Papamoa

    @31 What international pressure is that unless you can get a UN trade sanction in place you dont have a chance Double FACT!!!
    The argentine economy is important if you are not paying your debts then you cannot get loans to develop those mystical islands FACT!!!!!!!
    You are right argentina has already lost FACT!!!!
    Politians are corrupt that is why they keep bringing up the malvinas fairy tale FACT!!!!!!!!
    The malvinas do not exist only the Falklands inhabited by Falklanders exist FACT!!!!!
    Long Live the Falklands.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Monty69

    31 Islas Malvinas
    I know this is going to be hard for you to understand but....
    You are not 'the world' and you do not speak for 'the world'. The UN does, and the UN doesn't discriminate against us because of where our ancestors came from.
    It doesn't matter whether we are called 'Malvinas' or Falkland Islands. That has no bearing on our rights.
    You do have something to loose- credibilityand self- esteem. Fighting a battle you can't win is losing you both.
    A colonising population on a colonised territory? Don't go there. That's how you got your country.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Islas Malvinas

    @31
    We´ll see if we have no chance.... only time can tell...
    Do you live in a mystical island? Hello Petter Pan!
    Argentina lost, but never will give up... you´ll have to live in a Continente where you´ll never be welcome! FACT
    133 + China, Lantiamerica, African, Asian countries.. all corrupt believing argentinian feiry tales and incapable of recognizing british reality! What a world!
    Malvinas exist, ask Latinamerica, Obama and Hilary, South Koreans... etc...
    Long live Malvinas

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Papamoa

    @33 Well played Monty!!!!

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    Elaine, Well after reading the comments above and the elections results it is very clear that CFK won by a large majority and in a democracy is more than enough to get elected. I know real democracy is a subject difficult to understand for an English person ruled by an obsolute monarchy in the 21st century, only suitable in fairy tales books for kids.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    If the argentine government wants to waste millions on children’s toys, then that’s her problem,
    Perhaps a few statues may help her in her deluded desire .
    This woman obsession must sure be bordering on [Stalking] by now .

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Papamoa

    @34 As for visiting south america I have dual nationiality!!!!
    Wow 133 countrys support argentina so how come the Falklands are still a British overseas territory ?? Because all those countrys have too much to lose in trade deals with the UK!!!!
    And the malvinas what is that!!!! just a fairy story to tell to argentine school children!
    Long Live the Falklands.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Beef

    Islas - don't you mean the North Koreans. The South Korean cant snap up those Falkland Island Gvt fishing permits fast enough and have also built their own processing facility in Brazil. Guess they prefer doing business than talking crap. Do you care to list all those 133 and indicate what actions they have taken to support you. I wont take you long.

    Marocs - All I know about absolute monarchy is from my time in Saudi and Brunei. Why is it that 10 of the top twenty (and five of the top six) full democracies in the world are Constitutional Monarchies? Why is it that Argentina is classified as a flawed democracy and sits at position 51? The only fairy tale I hear on here is that Argentina is going to get hold of the Falkland Islands, actually that is more like a comedy than a fairy tale.

    Carry on sweeping the floor Marocs. The next rig is on the way - you can follow its unhindered journey past your “supporters” (I use that term loosely) right here.

    http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/default.aspx?mmsi=308243000&centerx=-31.2046&centery=36.78345&zoom=10&type_color=8

    Beautiful isn't she? you can do nothing about it.

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • xbarilox

    @ 39 stiff upper lip, man, remember? you're showing your true emotions now. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I think Kathy Price is beautiful, but many people think that she is ugly, so you see :(

    Kathy Price, beautiful isn't she? you can do nothing about it.
    http://www.lyon.edu/assets/images/PersonnelDirectory/Kathy%20Price.jpg

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Malvinero1

    And the malvinas what is that!!!! just a fairy story to tell to argentine school children!
    Long Live the Falklands.

    AHAHAHHAHAHa papamosca!!
    The reality is this:uk is finished! and we are facing the END of a cycle......just get out while you still can...

    Dec 12th, 2011 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    Beef, The next rig is on the way...out(OG)
    Urinehopper update 241.38 -10.25 (-4.08%)

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JuanStanic

    There's a say here that my fellow Argentines know:
    “Con paciencia y con aguante, la hormiga se cojio al elefante”

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    Oh what a lovely saying
    We have a saying to.

    Don’t piss down my back=and tell me its raining.
    .

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 01:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JuanStanic

    It's evident you didn't understand what my saying says.

    What lies are you worrying about? After all, this is just a museum. Not a common museum but I would like to see the memories of my uncle being shown. After all, if from that experiences we don't learn that war is not the way, then we won't be the peaceful people we are know.

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 02:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • xbarilox

    Canada gives his middle finger to the Kyoto Protocol
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cdb66522-2519-11e1-8bf9-00144feabdc0.html

    The first world shows once again why is the first world. I don't even dare think what the Barrick Gold Corp. is doing in Argentina.

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 02:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    So, Neanderthal Man aka 'Think' believes his President is a liar because she is a woman. It explains a lot.

    Gentlemen, I gave you rough figures. That means approximate and eventually the actual independent figures will be available. 10m or 12m is not 54% of the people eligible to vote in Argentina. That's all.

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • M_of_FI

    Think, every word that you type on here is vile and a lie. You are at the whim of your Government's grotesque manipulation of the truth to create a fantasy to try and justify their imperial objectives. Your Government have created a story that you believe justifies the eradications of another people's basic human rights. You attempt to portray yourself as an individual capable of individual thought and independence. But you are just another one of those tow-the-line imperialist drones that lap up the Argentine's propaganda. You arent capable of independent thought, you are a person that believes the ethnic cleansing, forcible removal of a peaceful community or their colonisation is a perfectly justifiable action. No matter how much you try and act differently to the crazed Argentines on here (E.g. Marco, Alejandro, Yuleno, Islas Falkland, Raul), you are no different. Just shockingly more arrogant.

    Ironically, you have chosen your Mercopress username “Think”, in an attempt to publicly prove that you are capable of independent thought, but you are incapable of it, no matter how much you “think” differently, you are just another narrow minded and shallow Argentine that just replicate their Government's propaganda.

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Papamoa

    @41
    The UK has only just started and is striding forward while other countries watch!!! I hope you enjoyed your cycle ride malvin!!! and I will be visiting argentina in the new year.
    Long Live the falklands.

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    47 ElaineB

    When a woman is wrong at times, why is it so hard for them to admit it?
    I find this very annoying in a woman. To me its like they are not adult enough to admit it.
    54% is 54%

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    Yes, it is 54% of the people that voted, not 54% of Argentines eligible to vote. It is an important point to clarify. Surely even you can understand the difference?

    You give the impression that you do not like women at all. That is your issue to deal with.

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    I do like women that can admit when they are wrong without the need of spinning the truth.

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    LOL! You only like women that agree with you even when you are wrong? What is it like back there in the 1950's?

    Your posts make me laugh out loud. Thanks for that. : )

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (47) ElaineB

    You say:
    Gentlemen, I gave you rough figures. That means approximate ………

    I say:
    No you did not……………..
    You manipulated every figure to fit your point.
    You added “approximately” 5% to the ”eligible to vote”.
    Then you added “approximately” 35% to the ”no voters”.
    Then you subtracted “approximately” 20% from Cristina’s voters.
    Then you omitted to mention that “approximately” 70% of the 10 million that didn’t vote for Cristina voted for a Peronist or a Socialist candidate with very similar policies to her own.

    I interpret all those “superfluous approximated figures and gross omissions in favor of your personal opinion” as an obvious lie…….

    As obvious as your previous story about those unnamed unavailable philosophy books needed by some Argentinean students that you so generously smuggle into our Country…………….

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    #54 & #50
    Part of my professional qualifications allowed me to teach statistics at graduate level. I have considered the comments made by you two and can see why Argentina is world renowned for obfuscation, so consider the following:-

    Looking at the govt produced figures the results are this:
    Total number voters eligable to vote = 27,890,158
    Total number voting for CFK = 10,762,217
    % of voters who ACTUALLY VOTED FOR CFK = 38.6%

    Voters who voted for someone else who MAY support her cause DO NOT COUNT.

    CFK got 38.6% AND THAT'S IT FOLKS!

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JuanStanic

    Think, the problem is that they think Cristina got her votes just because that 54% that voted her is stupid, or ignorant, or don't know what's best for them. That all were convinced by her lies.

    The problem is that to really understand, you have to stop reading the news and get to know the daily situation, the country situation.
    Is not a surprise that she got 54% when you had a joke candidate like Alfonsin(who only made internal division in the party worst, and set a record for the worst political propaganda ever), Binner who IMO was more of the same Cristina was doing but lacks charisma. Rodriguez Saa is a really good statesman, but he has too many enemies inside the peronists. Duhalde has the same population core as Crisitina, and was not in a situation to challenge her. Altamira was quite a surprise, and owes too much to facebook and “un milagro para altamira”. Carrio is bipolar and only threatens and criticates.

    And the situation is not so bad. We can eat well, many can buy new cars and so on. The poor class hasn't done so good since the 70s, and the middle class is better than in 2002 and also than in 2007. Obviously there is inflation, but as long as the salaries keep doing the race against it, their support won't erode.

    As an example, me and most of my families are whole life radicals, my great-grandfather even being diputado in the 40s. This year for example my brother told me he was going to vote Cristina because he knew voting Alfonsin was in vain and he was too pelotudo. I was going to vote him, but I changed to Rodriguez Saa.

    To sum up, Cristina couldn't loose. It's sad but that how things went and I knew since Nestor died. I can only hope that her movement dies with this term of her presidency.

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    I have posted here several times that Argentines I met often told me that there was no opposition to CFK and that all politicians are as corrupt as her, so what choice did they have.

    Think, are you telling me I should have smuggled those books in? Damn! To think I could have been arrested for possession of items likely to improve the mind. I did not know that was a crime in Argentina.

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    Elaine,
    “You only like women that agree with you”
    Spinning again? How old are you, fifteen?
    Even a stuck up young girl from a pigmy nation like you should be able to admit when you are wrong.

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Beef

    Hey Marcos, just seen you post @ 42! Ha ha LOSER!

    Guess you always choose the losing side :-)

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JuanStanic

    @ 57 ElaineB

    It's not. Even more. It's quite easy to get books criticizing Cristina and Nestor, and many of those are best-sellers.

    If there is one area that is almost not affected by their control of information it is publishing.

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Yuleno

    So the statistican has spoke!Must be definitive.But once again,he wants to set the rules.British.What do you expect.Even ElaineB,the friend of the people of Argentina was conceding the fact of 54%,until she was able to move the issue to a feminist issue.What a desperate remark to try to turn it into a sexist issue.Nobody inferred that CFK lied except ElaineB.Perhaps the statistican can tell me,using the same rules in his previous wonderful contribution,what were the figures for Cameron and Clegg.I'm sure he can put his skills to use there,for the benefit of all posters

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (56) JuanStanic
    You say:
    ”…..the situation is not so bad. We can eat well; many can buy new cars and so on. The poor class hasn't done so well since the 70s, and the middle class is better than in 2002 and also than in 2007.”

    But then you say:
    ”……I can only hope that her movement dies with this term of her presidency.”

    I say:
    By your previous comments, I know that you are a reasonable Fuegino, that’s why I’m “engaging”……..
    I don’t know how old you are but I’m old enough to remember that, in the past, when Europe or the USA did caught a cold, Argentina caught a Deadly Double Pneumonia.
    Look at the situation today….. Do you “Think” it is a casuality …..? Do you “Think” it is luck…..?

    Please mate, read some history about Argentina in the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, and 00’s and compare it with today’s reality.
    Maybe then you will stop hoping that “this movement” dies so quickly……

    Respetuosamente
    El Think
    Chubut, Argentina

    (57) ElaineB
    When introducing goods in Argentina, especially for other people and not for personal use, you are supposed to pay VAT and Customs Duties.

    Similar rules apply in the EU……..:
    In most European countries you are supposed to pay VAT for everything you import from outside the EU with a value over 22 €.
    And Customs Duties for everything you import from outside the EU with a value over 150 €

    So the answer is YES……., if you didn’t pay the proper duties for those books when introducing them in Argentina, you did smuggled them.

    But of course you can always play the part of the stupid blonde saying that you didn’t know the law and therefore the law doesn’t apply to you.

    Or even better you could play the part of the haughty Brit and say that you didn’t know the law and that, anyhow, it doesn’t matter because Brits are above the law……………

    Dec 13th, 2011 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JuanStanic

    @62 Think
    On one side you are right, we have had quite some economic growth. However, I can assure you that in 1999 I was better than now(I'm middleclass). Besides, education is going nowhere. Corruption is at the order of the day. I really think that they did some good things in our country. But there are some attitudes that I dislike, and that's why I hope their mafia eventually dies. Not that I'am totally against what they do, I'm against the people in charge and their attitudes. I mean, lying about inflation really makes me mad. Seeing 6 7 8 is disgusting. They are too dependant on their image and what people think of them. They keep on their policies of giving electrodomestics, tvs and food to the poors instead of educating them.

    Being down here, some of their policies hit me more than others. For example, why do I have to pay as much as $2000 for an airplane ticket to Buenos Aires in Aerolineas? I have to travel a lot for business. Why does the banks tells me that one of the main reasons their rate interests for my money is the INDEC? Why do I pay so high for meat? Why we almost only produce soybeans which destroy the land? Why when I visit Calafate it grew so large in just ten years?

    But it's just me. I know that with some of this things changed I may make my work really profit me.

    Dec 14th, 2011 - 12:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    Juancito
    Why did you buy Urinehopper shares?
    Why Why Why

    #18
    http://en.mercopress.com/2011/12/13/rockhopper-announces-fantastic-result-with-third-oil-discovery-in-falklands#comments

    Dec 14th, 2011 - 01:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JuanStanic

    @64
    Marcos.
    I'm a businessman. And I have the belief that a good business is just such, a good business. And I am glad that this way I do as much as I can to take money away from them and benefit not just myself, but my country I paid taxes when I bought them, the merchants here that will benefit from a few more earnings. Overall It's not much. But that money will come to Argentina.

    Dec 14th, 2011 - 02:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Rob the argentine

    more of the arguments here are really funny!! “Queen Botox” received 54% of the votes is a fact, votes from people making illegal business with this government or people making a living with the subsidies from the government. At this moment in Argentina 40% works and pay taxes to support the other 60% (K's supporters).
    The museum is only more “propaganda” from this government, let's see if they show a white flag at the front door.
    Let's accept facts, Falklands, and islanders, have all the right to self determination, no country in the world can avoid it, either Argentina.
    Perhaps in the future Argentina and Falklands will agree about mutual benefits and work together as two sovereign nations, argentines and islanders will benefit from it.

    Dec 14th, 2011 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JuanStanic

    Rob, I'm sure you hadn't lived in the country in a while.

    Many people who voted Cristina did so because there wasn't an oposition candidate worth voting.

    And for the Islands, ask Alexander Betts. He knows how stuff really is.

    Dec 14th, 2011 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    Hey Beef, just seen you post @ 59!
    What were you saying? :-))))

    Urinehopper update 254.12 -14.84 (-5.53%)

    Dec 14th, 2011 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    Congratulation are in order I hear,
    The argentines attempts to join the modern world, today, as she up graded the first to rowing boats with out board motors, the other six will follow later,

    Keep this up, and Argentina can finally leave wind sails behind for ever,
    Titter Titter [©]
    .

    Dec 14th, 2011 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    61 Yuleno (#)
    I take it you are referring to my post at 55, only you do not denote it.

    ElaineB did not infer any lying as far as I can recall and I would never expect her to do so.

    I note that you have not questioned my deliberations, or the fact that CFK had 38.6% of the eligible votes. It really is a no brainer to work this out for yourself if you wanted to. But I suspect that you had already done this and realised that you did not have a leg to stand on, hence the attempt with Cameron and Clegg.

    I trained for a number of years to attain my international recognised professional qualifications and I care not one jot for your 'opinions' when it come to statistics or anything else of a professional electrical / electronic or mechanical nature.

    Are we clear now? 38.6%!

    Dec 14th, 2011 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    ** 69 brit

    congratulation that should be said as “” titter “” not “” chuckle “”.
    BECOUSE
    one of the figurative saying of “” chuckle“” is “” chick calling/voice “”.

    Dec 14th, 2011 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JuanStanic

    @70 ChrisR
    Getting 38.6% of the votes is different from having support from 38.6% of the electorate. Many people who didn't vote support her. Many people who voted another candidate(mainly peronists) support her. Besides the amount of votes she got pretty much matches many surveys.

    Also, as long as I learnt, on elections you count votes to candidates, white votes and null votes. Not the votes of the people who didn't vote.
    So if you have 100 people electing. Of those 40 vote A, 20 vote B, 20 vote C and the last 20 didn't vote, you don't show that 20 percent of non-voters in the results. You show the results over the 80 who did vote and mention participation was of 80%.

    Dec 14th, 2011 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    71 geo [one of the figurative saying of “” chuckle“” is “” chick calling/voice ]]
    yes the lady on the telephine, she has a calling voice .
    well noticed .

    Dec 15th, 2011 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    #72 JuanStanic

    I understand that Argentina has a law that states everyone entitled to vote (with minor exceptions) MUST VOTE.

    Votes can only be counted for a candidate for the ACTUAL votes cast for that candidate. I made the point above, but will repeat it here: counting votes for people who say they will support you / may support you / do NOT support you DO NOT COUNT - HOW CAN THEY FOR GOD'S SAKE!

    People who are eligible and do not vote ARE MAKING A DECISION, and the decision is that they will NOT VOTE for anyone. In effect, this is a vote AGAINST everyone. Can you not see this.

    ElaineB made the obvious statement that CFK DID NOT GET 54% OF THE ELIGIBLE VOTE. And the Argie govt paid protesters berated her for it. SHE WAS CORRECT!

    CFK got 38.6% of the eligible vote: STATISTICAL FACT.

    It is this persistent twisting of mathematical facts by Argentia in a whole raft of statistics that shows the world what they are. You only have to look at the inflation rate on the ground against what the govt. SAYS it is to see that.

    Dec 15th, 2011 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Rob the argentine

    #67, Juan, I see you are new posting here, I am argentine, living in Mendoza and a few months ago, because some argies were saying (as you) I am not living here, I wrote my phone number in this post.

    Dec 15th, 2011 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    #74 your statistics for this purpose and argument is good and maybe correct but what you failed to explain is that people who casted a vote for money in Argentina do it legally, the Argentine goverment don't really care who you vote for, this is not as if they brive you to elect a particular member, the payments are designed to bring the poor class to vote, people whom otherways would not vote, for this reason Argentina motivates underpriviledged citizens by giving them a small sum of money taken from the government budget to bring the working class into the democratic arena, a sort of proactive democracy that is turning Argentina into the economic force you see today, this money is not like a monthly subsidy but rather a schedules event during elections do yourself a favor and get informed b4 making uninformed comments like that, my advise to you is, if you can't read, watch insturctional videos, and rather then taking the evidencc as presented formulate your own opinion from what you see and hear. for example everyone who got payed gets 50$ on elections day no matter who'm they vote for, it's not like CFK pay 200$ more to change people vote, they simply want everyone to participate, this is why the “punteros” support most if not all the runners.
    www.muxlim.com/videos/AlJazeeraEng/corruption-in-argentinian-election-28-october-2007/
    long live Islas Malvinas Argentina, british illegal aliens go home where you belong go hide under the skirt of your buttox queen.

    Dec 15th, 2011 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Yuleno

    #70-Clearly I know you care not a jot about my comments
    I asked you to tell me the percentages on Cameron and Clegg,to get a second example of your statistical work.However,you did not for some reason do that.I'm sure you are aware that,usually with statistical analysis there are usually,either footnotes or clear parameters used.As I see it you do a simple calculation(simple in the days of the Internet) and arrive at a number.Why don't you observe conventions or otherwise stipulate why you are not.
    Also may I point out just because you have expertise in certain areas,for you to maintain that expertise you must remember to learn and not declare yourself an authority
    The right to vote or the duty to vote.There is difference and if a person does not vote you haven't got a god( except yourself of course) to tell you why that person didn't vote,but they could have done had they wanted to.Thats all you know
    Finally,Argentina will have a war museum for the people of Argentina.Only a paranoid individual would find something wrong with that,don't you think?

    Dec 15th, 2011 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Well, I have two of the supreme Argies onto me today!
    #76 Pratt-Junta I never mentioned money for votes - would this be a guilty concience on your part?
    BTW, what is a buttox queen, one of your boyfriends I take it?

    #77 Yuleno Missing the point AGAIN, dear me! Maintaining my expertise can be done in many ways and the whole point of having an International Qualification is it makes me an authority when compared to others who are not qualified.

    'The right to vote or the duty to vote. There is difference and if a person does not vote you haven't got a god( except yourself of course) to tell you why that person didn't vote,but they could have done had they wanted to. Thats all you know' no it is not! They did not vote for CFK, had they have done she would have had a greater percentage of the ELIGIBLE vote just as I said.
    Weasel words again!

    Dec 15th, 2011 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    Pirat-Hunter
    Retnuh-tarip
    tripa- nuther
    insults from the loser, is only expected, as envy still thrives.
    addios

    Dec 15th, 2011 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Yuleno

    ChrisR. Is there a reason you will not tell me the numbers for the UK elections,other than you don't have to,because it's not that you can't is it ?

    Dec 15th, 2011 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • fermin

    @Britishbulldog: What is this comment?! A celebration of war??

    When there is respect for the HUMAN RIGHTS there is no search for war. What a pity that some people (argentinian, english or whatever) let's politicians and media develop warrior moods and an insane nationalism in them.

    How can the BBC and other major media companies reproduce a million times the idea that the terrorism comes from islam, from eastern cultures, etc. while the UK is pointing at the rest of the world with weapons of war??

    I don't agree with you or with some argentinians who participated in the war about seeing loosing as something that demoralizes, participating in wars is the thing that demoralizes people and societies!

    HOW LONG till the elite governing the UK, the NATO, the Pentagon and others start respecting LIFE, human rights and PACIFIC WAYS of solving problems?? how long??

    I guess pacific ways do not help colonizing, no? What happened in Libia some months ago shows the level of TERROR. Combating Ghadafi with murders doesn't make those involved better than him. It was just a few countries rushing to get a portion of the resources that were left with no owner on the name of “FREEDOM”.

    http://www.ferminlira.com/images/visionaire.png

    And for all those calling people “argie”, it is really disrespectful, not proper if you expect respect from others. Maybe I am wrong but: it gives me the idea that they are really influenced by nationalism, and a very cheap one.

    Dec 15th, 2011 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britishbulldog

    81 fermin----I will give respect when I see a country like Argentina stop lying and claiming for themselves something that HAS never belonged to them. And when Argentina stops the harassment of the people that live on our Islands, until then I reserve my right to call them anything I like.

    And if you view, what I have wrote as a celebration of war I suppose you are quite correct as the photos show the utter demolishment of an invading army that thought it could come onto our soil our territory and ruin people’s lives in 82. Whenever a country does that to NOT the English but to the British, you will find that we will turf them out at the point of a bayonet and do anything else to make sure that the thieving bastards do not dare to set foot on our soil unless invited again.

    Now if that hurts your feeling you will find I don't give a toss. We don't take kindly to people telling lies and thieving.

    We will resect life when Argentina respects life and up to now, I don't see one iota of proof that Argentina will ever resect life so you can expect more of the same.

    Dec 16th, 2011 - 12:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    And for all those calling people “argie”, it is really disrespectful
    []You don’t like us calling you ARGIE [][[

    That’s interesting from a dickhead who insults us with his blogg at number [5]
    1, neo-colonialism

    2, I think I should go to the Buckingham palace, have a child and tell him to be self-determined to live in a tiny little cattle on the palace garden

    3, selling the royal family intimate photos
    4, around the globe like kelpers maintain their “auto determination
    5,” Maybe these British people living in the Falklands could take care of the land they are usurping

    We don’t like some of your insults,

    Argentinian.
    .

    Dec 16th, 2011 - 01:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    #80 Yuleno
    You are correct, it is not because I cannot provide the numbers.

    The discussion was about the recent Argentinean election where CFK got 38.6% of the eligible votes, not the UK.

    I am not at all interested in the coalition government of my country, they should have re-run the election until a result was clear. I voted Conservative, not Liberal Democrat and despise what Clegg is doing to the country: but I suspect it won't last too much longer.

    Dec 16th, 2011 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • malen

    there must have been more people that voted the coalition in your country, thats why they wone. or you have an other system of election of president, i dont understand well yet.
    coalitions here since “ la alianza” failed, are no longer voted by people, and for example “ la coalición cívica” is getting after so poor votes of people, dissolved. It doesnt functions. I dont vote them.

    Dec 16th, 2011 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    85 malen //or you have an other system of election of president?
    //////////////
    yes [3] people elect our president, the odd one out [wins[

    Dec 16th, 2011 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ed

    (#) 20 Amigo
    Do you commenting here ,with a hand hamburger,other hand fried patatoes,breast pocket coke can,ass pocket plastic colt ?

    Dec 16th, 2011 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Yuleno

    Well #84 I know you can,with the help of the Internet,quite easily produce the numbers for the UK elections.It's the fact that you chose not to is very revealing.Do you want to check out how many did not vote and how many of them were under voting age.Just for your own interest of course.
    I've forgotten your areas of expertise now,but I would be quite happy to supply you with those numbers should you so chose me to.

    Dec 16th, 2011 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    88 Yuleno
    Love the obfuscation, you are the master at it.

    Pity it is so negative. Get a life.

    Dec 16th, 2011 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Yuleno

    Don't see much contribution in your post ChrisR

    Dec 16th, 2011 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    90 Yuleno

    My post at 84 was honest and to the point: my post at 89 is also true.

    The point is this: you are only interested in promulgating the lies of the administration, even when I try to open a truthful dialogue. So I see little more can be said.

    Dec 17th, 2011 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Kipling

    yes, it is similar to maori death, indian death, argentinian death, irish death, pakistani death, spanish death, Papua New Guine death, South Africa death, australian aborigen death, Malasya death, greece death, egypcian death, etc. Every death (genocide) was for UK. God, waht kind of God the UK believe? The Queen of The Lie, it is that every people all around the world believe.

    Dec 17th, 2011 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    #92 Kipling
    WTF are you on about.

    Or, more accurately, what the fcuk are you on?

    Dec 17th, 2011 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    Kiplin,, just like his cakes,
    burnt .

    Dec 18th, 2011 - 12:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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