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CFK mentioned to Piñera the possibility of cutting the air link MPA-Punta Arenas
Chilean President Sebastián Piñera revealed that his Argentine counterpart Cristina Fernandez, CFK, mentioned the possibility of interrupting regular flights between the Falkland Islands and Chile, but “made no specific demand on the issue”. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWell, with CFK everything is an issue. She's mentally deficient, an oligophrenic patient, so there's nothing new here.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 07:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0The final link matters more to Argentina and Chile than it does to the Islanders, it would be Chileans and Argentines living on the Islands that would be affected, along with the relatives of lost Argentine Veterans; the Islanders would just be inconvenienced, and forced to build a few more poly tunnels and hen houses.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 07:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who cares what CFK talks about anyway.
@ 2 well, you and I care what CFK talks about anyway, seemingly :D
Dec 13th, 2011 - 07:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well I think we should cut off the Lan link and all ties with South America either by air and sea sending all our business to Cape Town or somewhere else its time we became stronger and cut the crap with SA. Banning all Argies to set foot here........send home the remains of soldiers buried which should have been done years ago. One plane every three weeks from CT would be just fab. We would have to plan our overseas leave but hey we could do it..........arhhhhhhhhhhhh well must wake up and get into work............ Happy Xmas/New Year every one and may all your dreams come true and mine too xxx
Dec 13th, 2011 - 08:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0The fat boy Cameron should start building the new airport in St. Helena right now!!!or the prince will have to swim a lot, ha, ha! poor bennys!!
Dec 13th, 2011 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Kiwi - sounds like all like hot air. CFK doesn't have the spine to take any definitive action. Nice news from the oil drilling today, you agree?
Dec 13th, 2011 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5 - “The fat boy Cameron should start building the new airport in St. Helena right now!!!or the prince will have to swim a lot, ha, ha! poor bennys!!”
Dec 13th, 2011 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Congratulations kiwiarse for making yourself look a right arse. The prince will not have to swim due to air base in the ascension islands. Also the airbase in the ascension islands can be used for civilian flights too if necessary. So is their any rush to build the st helena airport? No not really, its mainly for st helena is that airport, though its secondary use is a a stop over between UK and the Falklands rather than using the ascensions.
The only people that will be swimming will be the argentina veterans and families of argentine soldiers buried in the falklands, not the islanders and certainingly not Prince william.
I suggets you try and keep up with the times dear boy, because if you were not so far backwards in time, you will have also known about the ascension airbase and primiary use of st helena air port to serve st helena, when it is built and nothing more than a stopover point for the few that do travel to or from the falklands.
lsn't Kiwiarg a real dkhd?
Dec 13th, 2011 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Kiwi Clot! Firstly flights to the Falklands have been routing via Ascension for 30years now!!
Dec 13th, 2011 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Other flights do not even use Ascension - they refuel further north in other European territories.
The RAF even at times fly direct non-stop UK- Falklands with mid-air refueling.
Plenty of aircraft today with the range to fly here direct non stop from Africa and USA.
Airport on St Helena is irrelevant - it will be for short-medium haul jets only it will not have a runway length for flights to Falklands.
Arg withdraws Lan overflight permission:
1- Arg is then in clear breach of International I.A.T.A regulations it has presumably signed up to years ago?
2 No Argentine passport holder will ever again be able to visit the Islands by air or sea to visit war cemetery/battlefields.family/friends etc - unless they also have a second country,s passport.
3 Several Hundred Chilean people living and working here will be cut off from ther families and friends in Chile.
Affect on your horrible evil islanders? MINIMAL - we have other options!! A bit of an inconvienience but not much more
NETT LOOSERS = Argentina and S America!!!
Do - for just ONCE in your poor life- Check Facts before opening mouth and inserting both feet and hands- you specialize in it!
Stop Flligths to Malvinas !
Dec 13th, 2011 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rigth know!
OR we can supervisory the flights, and you can pay taxes as all argentines do ;)
Finish your “kioskito” in south atlantic.
Islanders: fligth from St.Helena or swim; or pay taxes same as we do- IATA regulations?....hahahhahhh
2) of course ... but we allways remember them- You are so predictible-
3) THOUSANDS CHILEAND work, invest and living in Argentina...they can do the same ... they are welcome here, same as ALL PEOPLE WHO RESPECT US and OUR RIGTHS, who FREELY SPEAK, as words of REDHOYT, and recognize our rigths on Malvinas-
Now we have a poor life? and NET LOOSERS? ARE YOU UNCOMFORTABLE whit our possible desicion?
Get a life....
Saludos
Regardssssssss
Chile is helping to find a definitive solution ! Its already been found the Falklanders control there own destiny!!!!!!!!
Dec 13th, 2011 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 011 Papamoa: Yes, and they do when recognize our rigths on Malvinas !!
Dec 13th, 2011 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The president of CELAC is doing they work-
Regardssss
have you got a lisp
Dec 13th, 2011 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0lisp?
Dec 13th, 2011 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@12 Rosarino, we do recognise your rights to the malvinas, Copyrights that is, as since the malvinas islands do not exist and is purely therefore an imaginated island dreamt up by the argentina government who has made countless documents referring to them, then the Argentine government is the copy rights holder to those imaginative islands
Dec 13th, 2011 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mean while, bank in the real world, the Falkland islanders have sovereignty and rights to self determination over who governs their islands, and they have made it clear they wish to remain british. Which is hardly surprising as despite the acts of agression from argentina, who in their right mind would want to swap their savings in Falklands Pounds, which is ficed to the same rate as the Pound Sterling, in to worthless argentina peso lol.
osarino- you dont make sense,and cannot read either! No planes could fly here from St helena- nor do they need to- plenty of other places!
Dec 13th, 2011 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are we uncomfortable with Arg being Nett Loosers?- No!!!
Just you seem to like being Nett Loosers!!
Give you another one:
Succsessful Oil drilling campaign offshore here is now just finishing Frist round.
Several Hundred Millions Dollars spent - Who got all of it?
Answer- Islands businesses and UK businesses!
Who got ZERO dollars?
Answer: Chilean/Uruguayan/Argentine businesses!!!
It will be the same now in 2012 with Drill Rig No 2!!
Then 2013 maybe commercial operations start to develop fields for extraction in 2016 - Investment will be several BILLION Dollars;
Who will gain 100% of it?
Answer- Islands and UK Businesses.
Unless Arg stops her silly attitude- who will not gain ONE CENT?
Answer-Arg/Chilean/Uruguayan businesses!
Are we Islanders bothered?- not one cent are we!!!
It is Argentina,s choice - to be in - or out! One thing is for sure- Arg CANNOT stop it from happening!
Chile has to walk that line; it is a geographical constraint, not a sympathetic one; it couldn't care less about Argentina's fraudulent claims, or it would have endorsed South America's Sarah Palin.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chile is go-ahead, and far more enterprising, but diplomatically inhibited by a backward-looking, illiterate and unteachable neighbour.
10 Rosarino
Dec 13th, 2011 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0''OR we can supervisory the flights''??
.....or you can just mind your own business. Who the hell do you think you are? Chile is your neighbour and a sovereign country with every right to look after its own interests as it sees fit.
We plenty of taxes, but we won't pay any to you, you can be sure of that.
Are we uncomfortable with your decision? What decision? I can't see one. You don't get to decide much that affects us, so no, we aren't uncomfortable.
My prediction is that President Pinera will politely decline to do us over, but if he does it won't have much effect on us anyway. So no, not uncomfortable.
Oh and get another keyboard, your 's' is sticking.
Unbelievable, if it weren't for the fact that we know the persons behind this. Madness in great ones (these two are great only because of their use of ephemeral power) should not unwatched go.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Latinamerica is giving its back to British invadors.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Go and reinforce your international relations with St Helena (?), and good luck!
“The position of the Chilean government is clear and firm: we back and support the right of Argentina, on legal and historic reasons, over the Malvinas and other adjoining islands”
Dec 13th, 2011 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you Chile and the world for your support.
and the world for your support
Dec 13th, 2011 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You lot are full of pissing importance aint ya
16 Mr. Islander: I think you don´t understand-
Dec 13th, 2011 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can drill and invest and make good money; but we can do others stuff to get same money at cost of UK-
You need to remember, this is Argentina, and LOT OF UK COMPANIES INVEST HERE, and have enough money to pay your “robo”-
So is not a big problem...we put different taxes for UK works and that´s all-
Our bussiness whit UK are much more than 1000 billion...con quien crees que estas hablando?
About supoervisiong fligths: is POSSIBLE TO DO, because when Chile says we have rigth and they recognize them, recognize too OUR RIGTHS TO PUT TAXES ON THE ZONE ;) ... I don´t know if you, same as your coleague REDHOYT, when one get a possition, is not only “chat” or talk-talk-talk; is SUPPORT IN OUR CLAIM, and the recognition to EXERCISE OUR SOVEREIGEN RIGTHS TO COLLECT A TAX, same we do whit the vessels of Vigo-
Did you see the picture of the Principe de Asturias in Buenos Aires last week?
He gave an honor dinner for lot of people you know.....and no words about that vessels... We have more importants things to od whit Spain.
18 Monty69: THIS IS OUR BUSSINESS !! COLLECT TAXES IS OUR RIGTH IN SOUTH ATLANTIC, EVEN If you bougth in Chile most pay taxes ;);)
As everyone citizen in Argentina-
Regardsssssss
Doesn't look to me as if Pinera is really in bed with Kirchner over this.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Rosarino #23
Dec 13th, 2011 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your talking about getting money from UK companies that invest in Argentina by applying taxation on them or additional fees. What your forgetting though is that if you do start taxing or charging the additional fees, those UK companies will simply leave argentina and withdraw the billions of USD annual investment in your country leaving you with only Argentine and other foreign companies in argentina that have ties to UK companies that you can tax or charge addional fees, and i assure you those other foreign countries will not be happy and will likely leave argentina too. Then you will have only your own argentine companines that have ties with UK companies to charge. Plus in order to apply such sanctions on UK companies you would need a UN general assembly resolution for it to be lawful, but hey you need that for a blockade too.
So looks like your going to lose out no matter what actions argentina takes against the Falklands or UK based companies. Remember the UK doesn't need Argentina and neither do the Falklands. But you on the other hand need the investment from UK Companies. Lifes a Bitch Rosarino, it really is - Especially for argentina lol ;-)))
Rosarino- so tax UK companies- um-er - you will find that UK companies are EU=EEC=European Companies- do you want to take on the EU in a trade and financial war? You happen to be in Mercosur- and Merc0sur wants closer ties with the EU - so sorry-= that idea is not going to get you far - other than perhaps getting Brazil to boot you out of Mercosur perhaps as they value trade with the world more than they do Argentina perhaps.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tax on Lan flights??!! - please explain how - you cannot put a tax on a foreign airline in a foreign country - and dont forget lots of tickets are bought outside Chile!
We of course could easily put a landing tax on the flight that comes from Rio Gallegos of sayUS$50,000 per person - quite legitimate to make landing taxes!
Rosarino - The idea of contributing to a discussion means formulating coherent and logical arguments, not simply spouting a load of tosh. I see you are also a great product of that fabulous Argentine education system.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Marcos - The world? Hmm, which nations have bothered to take any actions to support you? How does it feel to see us do so well Marcos and for you wallies to be getting nothing, I thought you were winning, he he. That next rig is making great unhindered progress isn't it :-)
Argentina has no cards to play and not even your neighbours bother to give you actual support.
So what is this all about: the Queen of Plastic said something to someone who could'nt give a Donald Duck and who is doing even less.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Escribo en español porque es mi lengua y si alguien esta interesado en saber que puse puede usar el traductor de Google.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A todos los que dicen que Argentina y Sudamérica somos perdedores, tomen conciencia de que ustedes están en Sudamérica también.
Las cosas se van a dar independientemente de lo que nostros escribamos en esta página.
Ojala que se pueda conseguir una solución pacifica a este conflicto.
Inglaterra no para de tomar medidas unilaterales en un territorio que esta en diputa y que por orden de las Naciones Unidas tiene que sentarse a negociar. Estas son provocaciones permanentes a la Argentina, por lo que creo que están buscando que nos equivoquemos de camino y tomemos alguna acción militar. Porque esa es la única forma con la cual pueden llegar a mantener esta colonia.
Hola YO: debes escribir en ingle sporque sino te los borran, asi de criterioso es el “foro”-
Dec 13th, 2011 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Para que quede claro, Argentina puede, mediante un convenio entre aduanas, poner un vista de aduanas y fiscalizar que la mercaderia que va en el vuelo a Malvinas pague las tasas que Argentina tiene para importaciones vigentes o extraordinarias, segun le convenga-
Si Chile no lo hace, estaria contrariando su politica de estado, es decir, al reconocer derechos soberanos reconoce tambien que podemos recaudarlos.
No creo que Piñera, principal accionista de LAN, Presidente de Chile, de Celac, se niegue a hacerlo, porque menudo negocio tiene con Argentina-
For BEEF: what a what? How many companies leaving Argentina in last 5 years?
As you know, Argentina has no international credit, so we are by our own pocket ;) AND OUR EXTERNAL DEBTS ARE 20% OF OUR PIB-
FORD MOTORS: invest 250 million next year; GM 150 million; MBenz; 120 Million; John Deere 150 millions; only is this industry (cars &parts); we don´t need any UK investor because we have the conditions for develop our own market....same as you whit the fligths ;)
BEEF we can´t discuss anything whit you, because you simply don´t want to hera nothing about us !!! What´s the constructive discussion here?
Regardssss.....
Rosarino,
Dec 13th, 2011 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't you worry about Beef, he is just a broke desperate English gambler part of a small island in Europe being reduced to the status of a “pygmy” nation in the world as his own government official Nick Clegg, rightfully so, said a few days ago.
30 Rosarino
Dec 13th, 2011 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're talking like an idiot.
You can't tax business we do with other countries. You have no right to do so and you can't make us pay.
We pay the taxes due to countries we trade with, and we have our own tax system. It has nothing to do with you. You can't have 'sovereign rights' if you don't have sovereignty.
This is not a constructive discussion; you are just trolling and you know it.
And that 's' is still sticking.
Marcos:
Dec 13th, 2011 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think, now, UK leaving Europe by theirselves....podriamos reclamarle directamente al parlamento europeo que deje de poner a Malvinas como parte de sus territorios...que te parece? Total, si UK se va, quien va a querer problemas con uno de los proveedores mas importantes de aliemntos del planeta?
Sigamos con nuestro reclamo pacifico, cortemos los vuelos, cuandoy ademas, saquen petroleo finalmente y logren comercializarlo, sigamos adelante con impuestos especiales a empresas de capital ingés, cuando finalmente podamos pagar al Club de Paris NO PAGUEMOS la parte inglesa, total, ellos se lo cobran de ahi, Y OJALA SE AVIVEN Y NO COLOQUEN MAS NEGOCIOS EN LA CITY, que lo hagan en Frankfurt ó NY, no hacer negocios para que vean lo que se pierden.
Cuando la City compare las comisiones de los bonos argentinos (porque volveran) con el negocio que pueden hacer estos isleños con su quiosquito, les van a dar las hurras rapidamente, en un contexto mundial donde todo ira en recesion, la region crecera-
Saludos
Hey Marcos, nice to see that your jealousy and bitterness holds no bounds :-)
Dec 13th, 2011 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Having a bad day are you? Falkland Islands continue to be British, oil exploration forging ahead and a new round to start in 2012. Something tells me I am having a pretty good day and that £ in my pocket is getting me more € than last week.
How is your peso holding up? A you allowed to swap it, for a decent currency at the moment or is your gvt still trying to stop you?
I assume you are enjoying the show in the South Atlantic?
Yes I am enjoying the desperate British pigmy show, trying in vain to hold one of their last colonial outposts.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In vain? Care to back that up with anything tangible or just another of one of your words :-) I see you haven't been able to show me how any of your “supporters” have taken any action to support you, he he!
Dec 13th, 2011 - 10:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice big rig coming to visit in 2012!
Beef the self proclaimed economic guru should have known the peso has gained AS MUCH as the English pound in the last week against the euro.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So heres raising a glass of malbec to an economy growing at 8% plus while all of Europe including the off shore islands collapse.
Argentina will soon sign the Chileans up as economic trade bewtween the two countries grow at unprecedented levels.
As for those who are rattle on about English investment in Argentina.Sorry dudes those days are over you arent even relevant in Buenos Aires anymore
O Gara - whatever you claim or say, it has no effect on the soverignty of the FI or the future oil production. Argentina is superfluous to requirements. Why does the average Argie want to exchange their pesos as fast as a conscript running from Mount Tumbledown?
Dec 13th, 2011 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why would we want to be relevant in BA? I much prefer doing $1bn deals with Petrobras like we have just done :-)
Hide your wallet Mr Beef....proud member of pygmy nation England.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 01:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8954772/Confusion-over-Britains-30bn-share-of-IMF-rescue-for-Europe.html
@ o'gara, i haven't bothered to check what you say about the gains the peso have made, but i did check the MERV (BA's Stock market). It started the year at 3,700 points and is now down to 2,200 points. that's a drop of 168.18%. Not looking good for argentine banks and companies is it now? Its also 217.77% behind the current Ftse 100 level - So much for argentina not being effected by the global economic crisis.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 01:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0It seems to me
Dec 14th, 2011 - 01:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0That the only people that seem to be worried over the air links, are the argentines,
If she is big enough to make that big decision,
Then she is big enough to carry the can .
.
@40 I would say it's more cause of Cristina policies than the world crisis.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 01:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0@41 Briton
It's likely that Cristina will force it so she can move the rests in the Darwin cementery back to the mainland. In that case, it would be more easily for everybody to remember the islands.
I'm against it,mainly because I think that those deads we left there stay fighting and stay claiming the Islands. I think that everytime their families go there to remember them, they remember to all of us that many young boys died for a just cause led by some mad men.
beef: what about you in the noth atlantic?
Dec 14th, 2011 - 01:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Debts? unemployment? stock market? companies making enough moeny to keep workers bussy?
Only in south atlantic? ARE YOU DEPENDING OF MALVINAS GROW FOR GET SOME PENNIES?
Our peso is in very good shape; we debt only 20% of our (official) PIB..... 7% unemployment.... has England the same conditions?
We consume 55KG of MEAT every year...and drink whit excelents malbec.
Regardsssss...
43 Rosarino
Dec 14th, 2011 - 02:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Che!!! Rosarino, I would like to spen time with you for BBQ, the best Aregentina's meat and drink nice Argentinien red wine Malbec, what brand do drink? mate!!!
Roady/Kiwi'sarse - At least we pay our debts !
Dec 14th, 2011 - 02:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has no honour !
In that regard Rosarino is right. Economically we are doing well. I would like though some more freedom to do my business and some decisions of the state to be changed, but anyways Asado y Malbec for Christmasts.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 03:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Economically your statistics are screwed and you defaulted on your debts - that can hardly be called 'doing well' !
Dec 14th, 2011 - 05:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Redhoyt,
Dec 14th, 2011 - 06:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Speaking for myself, I stand in facts. The fact is that if we compare us to 2001 we are doing well. Period. You should have lived here for this ten years to see the difference. I myself could start an hotel. My city grew. People is buying stuff. People eat well. People is upgrading their houses. If that's not doing economically well tell me what is this.
Rosie - the only debt I have is my mortgage, full-time job paying over £45K and I enjoy a good Malbec on the odd occasion (variety is the spice of life though). My wealth is not in question. The Falkland Islads oil adventure will pay of my mortgage and give me the spare change for a Jag XJ :-)
Dec 14th, 2011 - 06:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your Peso is not in good shape at all so please stop deluding yourself (you gvt refusing to accept them back from Uruguay is a bit of a hint).
If you are talking about soverign debt issues then Argentina is not exactly in a position to talk. You haven't even managed to pay back you defaulted debt yet.
The UK is finding its debt easy to manage and in fact our valued assets are worth much more than our debt. Probably why we are still AAA rated!
Stan - Greece is doing well compared to Argentina in 2001 - hardly a good comparison. At least Greece will pay its debts back ..... well probably :-)
Dec 14th, 2011 - 07:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0And I do care about my goverment paying back the debts because...?
Dec 14th, 2011 - 07:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really, it has no effect on me.
Nor it does seem to have one on the people. Why would be pay this debts know? If we are not supposed to ask for any more money. I prefer that money being invested in the country, and not owing even more money to someone else.
You should be concerned because your country is now at risk again because of those debts. Still no agreement with the Paris mClub means that international (cheaper) sources of borrowing are not available to you. For all the rhetoric Cristina needs to borrow.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 07:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0The US has already barred further laons from the World Bank although recently it eased that slightly. Even so, without full access to world markets Argentina's growth is limited.
Your default will come back to haunt you.
First of all, I really think that we don't need those International borrowings. If anything, the use of our own savings for investment will help to cool a bit the economy which is needed.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 08:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Apart from this, being isolated from international sources of borrowing is not the end of our access to world markets. The Chinese will like to have a word at this with you. Food will be sold. The Chinese will keep doing new investments here. That's the way it's good to see foreign money come in.
You've got to read more. The Chinese have money problems of their own.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 08:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Everything is connected. The Chinese worry every time they look at the USA - after all they are by far the single biggest owner of US debt. Which is why the US is limiting your access to the World Bank, they'd like you to pay your debts to them, so that the Chinese feel happier.
Just curious that this year the Chinese invested liked 2billion dollars only in Tierra del Fuego. I don't have the data about the rest of the country, but I believe it's 5 times as much.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 08:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0You can even compare our debt to the American one. It's like comparing an ant with an elephant. Besides, I hope we don't pay it for now. Better develop ourselves and when we earn more than enough money, pay it back. And don't take any international borrowing never ever.
Non payment of a debt is often called by a different name - theft !
Dec 14th, 2011 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0The best piece is that Argentina will likely do what I have always said we should do and that is sever the flight link with Chile and go on our own. The reasons for this are simple . We can then stop any or all Argentine visitors . We could even repatriate the war dead something we should have done in 1982, Hind sight of course is a wonderful thing. We can no longer rely on the support of the Chillean Government as they ar eto afraid to agravate Argentina because it could start a new border war. So The sensible thing for Argentina to do is actually close the Chillean air link and it will look very favourable for us Islanders politicaly. It is Sad that Argentine politicions are still beeting the drum. The quicker they realise we are not ever goping to give in to them the better for all in the region.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We will never ever fully trust Argentina again because she has only one goal in mind. Our soverign rights. Now of course our new found wealth. It amazes me that other Latin american Countries actually support them because I trully believed they had more democratic sence than that but however one can never fully understand the thinking of others.
afraid to agravate Argentina because it could start a new border war.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thats a interesting point, playing the if game,if the Argies ever got the Falklands,would they then tear up the agreement with Chile over the the Beagle Channel and chance their arm
@56
Dec 14th, 2011 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, I didn't say we should pay it ever. I say we should pay it when we are in better shape. It's obvious that a debt is a debt, it should be paid. But as quite a good amount was created by the militars, I think we the people don't have much responsibility for it. We will pay it anyway, given time.
@57
You must take a look at the situation. First of all, compare trade between Argentina and Latin America, and do the same with the Islands and Latin America. It speaks for itself. And believe it or not, it's another tool to cooperate under a same flag with Latam.
It's not an option to stop beating the drum. From a start, that politician lost 50% of his image and will be savagely criticized by oposition. No one in his right mind would do so, who would vote them? I wouldn't for sure.
And it's not like saying what if all politicians stopped at the same time. New politicians will appear or the same old politicians will take the chance to strenghten themselves.
Interesting enough, It's British uncomprehesive view of the war that makes our country and people beat the drum. If at least they came and said “We understand the Junta were the only ones responsible for the war, and the people didn't really want to fight a war” instead of “You should have prevented it, you are all responsible”.
The way that the military goverment left their mark in society, their cruelty to some, the suspension of rights, the tortures, the desaparecidos, is why people hate the military so much today. And blaming all the people for their crimes will not get the best answer.
@59
Dec 14th, 2011 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Latin America and in particular Argentina has a very long history of aggression towards fellow neighbours and much worse than that they never keep to any agreement no matter where it is registered. So before anyone starts to sugest the economic benifits of trade etc lets sort the problem of distrust out. We Islanders will never trust Argentina ever again after what they did to us and continue to do to us today. Bullys, Liars and dishonest when ever it suits them. Right now the reality is that if Argentina stops the Chillian Air link she will be cutting her own nose of to spite her face because we Islanders would refuse to allow any more Argentine people in. Now when that is all dressed up it comes down to a heck of a lot of very unhappy Argentine citizens who use this only gateway to come visit their war dead. I still maintain we should have sent the bodies back in 82. We never asked for them to come and die here your lot did that.
Chile should be very cautious in befreinding the Argentines because once they get what they want no mater who it is from their neighbours would again be in th eline of fire. History keeps reminding ou of these facts.
@60
Dec 14th, 2011 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's right. The Guerra de Malvinas was the first war we fought in like 100 years. And before it we fought the War of the Tripple Alliance. The fact is in both cases, popular opinion was manipulated to distract them from other things. In the first case to give the military some more air to breath, in the second, to unite the country under war and show what was the cost of opposing the goverment.
Luckily, we madurated and democracy is stronger than ever. It's not like in the past century when you new a coup was waiting behind the door.
About never trusting Argentina, remember that policies change with governments. The only certain thing is that a big majority think the Islands are ours. The actual policies are partly a result from the Cooperation policy of the nineties and early 2000s didn't accomplish much. The common feeling was that we were wasting our time. If results had been made, you can be sure the current policy would be different. Anyway, a lot of people are against it, so expect the next government to take more of a cooperation view.
But one thing you got from is that those citizens are unhappy. Other thing I take my hat off to the goverment is that they are the firsts to really take care for veterans and families, giving them pensions and hearing them.
Apart from that, Chile is doing well by befriending its neighbours. Economic links will make any kind of future problem just that, a problem nothing risky.
61 JuanStanic (#
Dec 14th, 2011 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Time will only tell if what I feel it is right now.
I do so whish that your Government would put the past firmly in th epast and let us get on with life. It is crazy to attempt to win th ehearts and minds of a people and or the world by placing such things as shipping embargos and removal of air links etc. So be it what I will always say is that we are a very determined people who whish to remain British and live in the Country we choose that is the Falkland Islands.
I and a lot of my fellow Islanders are trully dissapointed in the way the Argentine rulers chuck every atempt we make to offer an open hand right back at us. Clearly sugests that your leaders are nothing but spoiled children always wanting to get their own way. Chile and Brazil are just two other nations handed the same treatment by Argentina. A Great shame as we have so much to offer the world in the South Atlantic and it is bieng spoiled by a dictator currently in power in Your Country.
@63
Dec 14th, 2011 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I understand you. I think the best way of pursuing our goals is progress. I also wish that politics in my country were easier. We Argentines are more nationalistic by the day, which I think it's not something bad. I'm quite nationalistic too. But they are more concerned in doing well now, than growing in the long term. I reallybelieve as most Argentines do that the Islands are ours. But I also believe that right now we don't have chances and should work toward progress. I think that following this peaceful path we will get them back in a future.
Brazil and Chile are not being treated like that by us. In fact, in some regards we could be a little harsher with them. They have so much liberty that many important companies are owned by groups from these countries. And besides this, the youth in the three is showing their support for mutual progress and cooperation.
Today's politicians obviously were marked by the Dictadura and the past, so I understand their way of being and acting. But remember the new politicians in 10 or 20 or 30 years will look a lot more to progress.
And this government is not a dictartorship. It's not a light word that go like nothing. You nor the British had suffered the real shit of being under such. Cristina can be whatever you want but she's not a dictator.
28 ChrisR When you say “Queen of plastic” I imagine you refer to Queen Elizabeth II, don't you? Rest assured that we'll see the day that royals will read the ads in the Telegraph looking for a job.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 063 JuanStanic:
Dec 14th, 2011 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0hay que entender que:
Si les das algo, (como se hizo antes de la guerra, con Correo , AA, Lade, etc.) piensan que es su derecho; pero tam poco se mejora nuestra posicion pues ellos no quieren dialogar-
Si no les das nada, se enojan tambien, porque los discriminamos-
Si les quitas todo, se enojan tambien, y hablan de recontruir la confianza y que sacandoles todo no ganamos nada-
Esto es gataflorismo puro: o sea: LOS DESEOS VERSUS LOS INTERESES-
Y tenemos que estar lidiando encima con UK, que si tiene intereses, basados en los deseos de esta gente-
Ergo: hagamos lo que nos conviene a nosotros.
Quieren dialogar: dialoguemos-
No quieren dialogar: pues bien, que no jodan cuando les cortemos las vituallas, las diplomaticas y las otras.
Centremonos en nuestro objetivoque asi nos va muy bien: ni siquiera gastamos un solo peso en armas-
Y sigamos creciendo y sigamos dando que hablar en el mundo, produciendo y ganando dinero y asociandonos con China y Brasil-
Saludos
** 50 Red
Dec 14th, 2011 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you think Greece at least will pay it's debt back!! ..probably ??
possible by these numbers ??
Greece employment participation rates :
Male : 65 % ...Female : 42 %.... Total : 53 %
by the way ; let's look at UK numbers ??
UK employment participation rates :
Male : 55 % .... Female : 46 % .... Total : 51 %
@65
Dec 14th, 2011 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Siendo buenos, ganamos dinero que nos lo quedamos y no va a parar a la perfida. Tambien quedamos mejor a los ojos internacionales, osea, ganamos apoyo. Tambien los vamos enganchando y quedamos bien para la gilada.
I think it's great that Cristina is being neighbourly to Chile, if USA had to deal with the same situation they would have said you are with us or the terrorists, and right away started to bomb Chile, or arm small private militias inside Chile, I hope someone in the Argentine intelligence is taking notes, free advise is hard to come by.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For those Brits who love war, here it is
Dec 15th, 2011 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/onthefrontline/5827340/British-war-dead-in-Afghanistan.html
nice guys, but dead. Well done.
63 JuanStanic
Dec 15th, 2011 - 12:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think you will get the islands by peaceful means or any other.I really mean that; islanders will never agree, and no-one will force us. It would be better if we could all live peacefully
63 JuanStanic (#):
Dec 15th, 2011 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Brazil and Chile are not being treated like that by us. In fact, in some regards we could be a little harsher with them. They have so much liberty that many important companies are owned by groups from these countries...
---
you must be kidding, in which way should Argentina get more harsh than it already is? This is totally ridiculous. Piñera, whatever his reasons might be, is backing your president in a situation that could easily be also the other way round, and you talk about “being more harsh with Chile and Brasil” ?
Giving a hand, and you take the whole arm, no wonder people do not trust this “backening”, most people here distrust you especially because of this “harsh” and shameless attitude.
@70
Dec 15th, 2011 - 01:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Time will tell. In our world nothing is certain.
Get them Back 63 JuanStanic (#) Not a chance because you have missed the most important point here. The Islands never was Argentinas. No matter how you address it these Islands were first discovered by a British explora in 1592 tow hundred or so years before the name Argentina even existed.
Dec 15th, 2011 - 01:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Another very strange issue here is that today Argentina are even harrassing Spanish ships fishing in our waters. Now if it is as you say your Country by default because Spain once claimed they owned them having so called bought them from The French why are you challanging the very Country that started this trouble by inventing Argentina.
You know it is also funny how something is perceived. In the eyes of the vast majority you appear to be trying to take something that does not belong to you. Good exaple is someone owns a house and wills it to their Daughter legaly yet the youngest Son reckons it belongs to him as he has the Father surname to carry it on. Problem is just like our Country Lawyers do not share the same view and that is why your Country is at a differance because it cannot and will not accept the word of law.
Our people was not implanted by Britain like your lot were when your people distroyed an indigeonous people of that land which your Country refuses to acknoweledge am I not right 63 JuanStanic (#). Not ever did our peopl who happened to be from many differant Countries who in those days were pioneers who wanted to explore and settle new land.
The only reason Britain maintains her claim to our Islands is because historuically as already said one of her people discovered the place.
What do you have to say to that 63 JuanStanic (#)
@ 73 IN THE EYES OF THE VAST MAJORITY NOTHING, KELPERABOUT. SPANIARDS WILL GET A BLACK EYE IF THEY MAINTAIN THEIR POSITION, AND YOU TOO. IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, YOU ACCEPT THAT YOU'RE ARGENTINES AND OUR BROTHERS, OR LEAVE OUR COUNTRY.
Dec 15th, 2011 - 01:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0PS: I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT GIVING ISOLDE A VERY SPECIAL WELCOME GIFT :)
74 xbarilox (# Maybe I should reverse the situation and sugest you accept we are British or you simply shut to hell up.
Dec 15th, 2011 - 03:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Exbrain has been taking the wrong tablets again :-)
Dec 15th, 2011 - 05:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0@73
Dec 15th, 2011 - 05:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are wrong. It's way more probable that part of Magallanes expedition discovered the Islands in 1520. Besides both and some more cases. The undoubted discovery was made by the Dutch.
Second to that. Spain rejected to claim our lands and recognized our right to the lands of the Viceroyalty.
And for god sake, they didn't invent us, you don't invent people and you don't invent a country.
Also, about your utter fake sayings about Native Americans here, I want to tell you three things: 1)Argentina was sparcely populated by Natives, about 1 million in the whole territory. 2)Disease killed most of them. Again, the size of the country and low density does not allow mass killings. 3) Experts believe about 40% of the population has some degree of Native blood. And our natives are in many cases well treated. Compare Mapuches to Quechuas or Amazonians and tell me.
Again, if you say thats your only reason for claiming the Islands, you would like to know that 1592 discovery is questioned by many scholars. The accepted discovery is 1600 by dutchmen. That's the one everybody is sure.
“ .. Spain rejected to claim our lands and recognized our right to the lands of the Viceroyalty ..”
Dec 15th, 2011 - 07:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Err, no they didn't Stan. And please don't just quote the first few words from Article 4 of the 1863 Treaty. It refers to the acquired rights and privileges mentioned in Articles 1 - 3, and is ensuring that the old debts of the colony don't head back to Spain. No mention of any rights to old sovereignty claims.
Spain, in any case, could not give Argentina anything from before 1836 as the Spanish Constitution forbade it. The Cortes decision in 1836 did not backdate anything.
Discovery is now largely irrelevant for the purposes of international law.
Turning up, making a claim, and leaving again without doing anything more was recognised as insufficient way back in 1760.
Which is why Jewett doing it in 1820 is a bit of a joke !
And Sebald de Weerdt didn't make a claim. He did give an accurate chart position for the Jason Islands though.
The first recorded claim was by Captain John Strong from the ship Welfare in 1690. But then he didn't do much more either! Which is why the sovereignty claims date back to the French and British settlements.
@74Xbox,
Dec 15th, 2011 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you, xbox, but l have everything that l need. You give the gift to your girlfriend/boyfriend, whatever.
@77JuanStanic,
Who cares about all this. lt's 2011 & this is our land, not Argentina's.
You have plenty of land spare. Develope that & forget about us.
Could you tell me, dear Malvinenses, If this note is true?
Dec 15th, 2011 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.nuestromar.org/noticias/07-12-11/ingleses-siempre-nos-escondieron-informaci%C3%B3n-sobre-reclamo-argentina-sobre-malvinas
Regards,
Like most honest folk are saying Just let everyone get on with their lives and live in peace. The wealth we have discovered on our Islands belongs to us even though we offered to share it with you in 1999 but your country refused to acept our open hand. Tell me 74 xbarilox (# when has the Argentines done anything for us that comes under cordial relationships. All the history shows me is that Argentina has always condembed our existance. You are also very wrong regarding the indigeonous people. Argentinians hunted them to extinction and these facts can be found in many places. Our own pioneers wre also employed believe it or not by Argentine sources to help them exterminate the patagonian Indians. One of my ancestral realitives was such a person who was paid a bounty to bring back the ears of such people. So don't go on about desease killing these people before your lot .
Dec 15th, 2011 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0We are a very intelect society and probably are many times more educated than the best Argentine schollars and above all we were neve taught to tell lies. That cannot be said for Your government. The evidance of that is also very visible today. Your children are schooled to believe the lies your politicians instruct the teachers to teach.
The bottom line is why does Argentina continue to harrass us when they surely must know that we as a people will never change our wishes. I feel that this whole saga is not one of national pride as your people keep saying but one of national greed because we have so very much in such a small place. If as you say your Country is so vast why then is it nescessary to acquire such a small additional piece of territory. I think I know the answer which is that all Argentines like to get waht they want no magtter what stands in their way am I correct 74 xbarilox (#
Now, now what is an “adjoining” island??
Dec 15th, 2011 - 12:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0SVP, I don.t have the foggiest idea.
Philippe
something that joins ??
Dec 15th, 2011 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ ... being in contact; connected or neighbouring ..”
“ ... Implies meeting and touching at some point or line...”
“ ... located next to another; bordering ...”
:-)
Indeed, Martin Garcia Island is “adjoining” to Uruguay- not to Argentina!
Dec 15th, 2011 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Philippe
I invite any kelper to come to Rosario, you can stay in my home ( it isn´t a big one but i think it doesn´t matter)
Dec 15th, 2011 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So if you are interested in knowing continental Argentina, you have were to stay. My email is salvajavier@gmail.com.
i think we have a lot to learn about each other.
Rosarino sos Mingo no?
The problem Phil - is that geography doesn't mean anything !
Dec 16th, 2011 - 12:42 am - Link - Report abuse 01 mile or 8,000 - all the same in sovereignty law.
Guess my last entry choked 74 xbarilox (# as no response or maybe he is unable to actually confirm otherwise the points I raised.
Dec 16th, 2011 - 02:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0well, no one answer my questions about Mr. Bett, so I think is real-
Dec 16th, 2011 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yo, No soy Mingo !!
Saludos!
I hope it doesn't happen finally, but i am not so optimistic. The suspention of flies will prejudice us also, i want to visit the islands some day, and if the suspentions presists, i wont be able to go.
Dec 16th, 2011 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway we must be more inteligent, we must understand that this decition is the result of the rejection of the u. k., and the islanders to respect the resolutions from the u. n., and resume the negotiations, i know that you are going to invoke once and again the right to self determination, however none resolution affirms that the solution for the sovereignty issue, which is the main problem, must be resumed only if the islanders wish it, like i said in planty of oportunities, as long as you insist on rejecting to resume the negotiations, we will have more and more problems, unfortunatelly i wasn't wrong.
I wont discuss with you about history, because it will always be open to diferent interpretations, i respect all the postures, but beyond our respectable postures, the resolutions must be respected, and the negotiations should be resumed, with purpose of finding a solution to the sovereignty problem. Anyway there is something that you must accept, both sides omit information respecting historic issues, not only argentina, history is politic, and the politicians will always use it telling only what is convenient for them, and omiting what prejudices them, but we must be more inteligent, we dont have yo buy their partial information, we must investigate, like i did, and after take a posture.
There are no active UN GA Resolutions on the subject of the Falkland Islands.
Dec 17th, 2011 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0The last one in 1988 was fully complied with by both sides and died peacefully in its sleep.
The Islanders right to Self-determination is enshrined in the UN Charter.
The decision by Argentina to reject the agreements made by the 1989 deal in accordance with the 1988 Resolution is regretable. But Argentina only has itself to blame!
@89Axel,
Dec 17th, 2011 - 10:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0We do not have to resume negotiations.
The UN resolution was merely a recomendation.
You want our land & we do not want to give you our land.
You do not own our land,regardless of whether you want it or not.
You have no legitimate rights in our land.
We do not care what you want or think.
Therefore there will be no “negotiations”.
ls that clear?
REDHOYT.
Dec 17th, 2011 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can't be so miopic, i accept the critics that you make to my country respecting the agreements that had been signed in the past which argentina finally recalled, i dont know exactly why it did it, maybe it was a mistake by my country. But you can't ignore the resolutions from the decolonization committee, what you call recomendations must be respected, and as long as you insist on rejecting them, we will have more and more problems, you dont to be so smart to realise of it. I wont assure that the right to self determination is applicable or not to this cause, i only know that in 1985 the u. k. tried twice to incorportae to this case, referencess about that right, and the international comunity voted by a landslide against it, the malvinas-falkland cause is still considered like a special colonial case, only a judgement from the i. c. j can affirm if that right is really applicable or not, if you read resolution 2353 which reffers the gibraltar cause, you will see in one of the paragraphs what it thinks about territorial integrity, that's why i can't affirm if that right is really applicable for this case.
88 Rosarino
Dec 17th, 2011 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rosy - here's a clue: no one is answering your question because no-one (other than other Argie liers) is talking to you perhaps? Goodbye!
1 mile or 8,000 - all the same in sovereignty law.
Dec 18th, 2011 - 01:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0AHAHHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAHH!
But if I live close by,I have more rigth than you living at 8000 miles...Sure country means nothing,continental shelf means nothing..I think you are rigth,uk is inside Argentina contienental shelf...
red=lordtroll...Pathetic.....So MAlvinas belong to Argentina....who says otherwise? A gun?? So were is the law??
@94 “But if I live close by,I have more rigth than you living at 8000 miles”
Dec 18th, 2011 - 10:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly right their Malviner the closer you live to the land your claiming the more rights you have to determine who governs the land and who has sovereingty. But unfortunately for you the islanders can use your very own argument above against you, as they clearly live alot closer to the islands then you do as they are, in fact, standing on those very islands, where as argentina is not and happens to be over 300 miles away from them. So the islanders are closer to the islands than what argentina is. As such the islanders have more rights over the islands then what you and argentina have.
But if I live close by,I have more rigth than you living at 8000 miles...
Dec 18th, 2011 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stand clear argie logic at work
Isla Martín García is an Argentine island off the Río de la Plata coast of Uruguay. The enclave island is within the boundaries of Uruguayan waters
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