MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Controversial plan to excavate Falklands’ conflict battlefields
A television archaeologist has revealed plans to excavate the battlefields of the 1982 Falkland Islands conflict. The initiative belongs to Glasgow University academic Dr Tony Pollard who is preparing the major project. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesI would advise Dr Pollard to get the necessary permission from the Lands Committee before he wastes his time and an airfare to BA.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would advise Dr Pollard to follow Ms Monty69 recommendations, you don't want to end like this marine...
Dec 13th, 2011 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APNNnCtNZ20
I would advise Dr Pollard to follow Ms Monty69 recommendations
Dec 13th, 2011 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Too effing right Marcos
Desaparecidos
http://www.yendor.com/vanished/
Very silly. This is just a stunt for TV entertainment. There is nothing to discover from an excavation of an event just 30 years ago, about which so much has been written.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its not fitting at all. Leave the dead in peace.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The BBC are really scraping the barrel.
I wouldn't get too aerated about this. I'd say the chances of it getting permission are about nil.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whoever is the argaeologist, this could be a very interesting programme.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“he said that he thinks it is important that they get both sides of the story”
Dec 13th, 2011 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like Ms Monty69 said above, the chances of it getting permission are about nil from the British dictatorship in Malvinas.
Yeah and we all know that the argentine propaganda machine will jump on him as soon as he lands is BA and contort and twist any actual findings. I can see him stood next to CFK, with her thanking him for his support over argentina sovereignty of the malvinas. Only for him to turn round and say, “Sorry but they are british and they are called the Falklands. The malvinas islands are about as mythical as the rest of crap that flows out of your mouth CFK” ;-)))
Dec 13th, 2011 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0British dictatorship in Malvinas
Dec 13th, 2011 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you have to work hard being a cretin Marcos or does it come naturally
Revolución Argentina (Argentine Revolution) was a period of military dictatorship from 1966 to 1973, spawned by the June 1966 military coup, and self-proclaimed by the Military junta as “the Argentine Revolution”.
Argentine dictatorship - Military operations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGMkwCW3s3s
Marcos is just smarting because he realises his country has no hope of getting its grubby colonial Iberian mits on the FI.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you following that rig Marcos? Are you looking froward to the sea-lion CPR and more drilling in 2012 as much as I am :-)
If ever you needed evidence that the Scots hate the English for beating the crap out of them centuries ago, this is it.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very sensitive of him and the programme would be better named as 'Two men in the shit', him and his Argie mate.
Choice between digging up Argies or burying 'em. No real choice. Bury the turds.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can t u show some respect for dead people? We are perfectly aware that you had to cry like a baby asking your cousins for help that time. But that is over. They are fed of you all. You are totally alone now, we ll see who s your dady now.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whos the dady?
Dec 13th, 2011 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm the Daddy Now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn7o35NcJwo
14 SilviEdLP
Dec 13th, 2011 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry, is that supposed to make sense?
#15 stick up your junta
Dec 13th, 2011 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Great link, reminds me of how I used to deal with the bullies, only with my fists.
My uncle was at one time the boxing champion of 42 Commando and taught me one very important lesson: if YOU can take the intial hits without worrying about the pain, you can kill the fcukers - AND IT'S TRUE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Pollard
Dec 13th, 2011 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dr Tony Pollard is English not Scottish you numpty. And no the Scots don't hate the English and the Sassenachs forget that Scotland imposed union upon the English.
Let's be nice, people.
Dec 13th, 2011 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 18 Scots hate the English
Dec 13th, 2011 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w62P_tklw9c
Belfast hate the English
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w62P_tklw9c
there are tons of these videos, well, up your *ss anyways
Yes but 99% of all english, irish, scots and welsh people hate argentinans so your point is what exactly xbox?
Dec 14th, 2011 - 01:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think an Argentine archaeologist should go, it's a really good offer and many stuff can go to the new museum. And he definetively should go with the proposed new Argentina's football shirt.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 01:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Also, regarding the Scots. How is that thing about the referendum going? What do people in Scotland think?
Because I heard that being independent, they would get better deal for the oil wells in the North Sea.
@ 21 come on, tit, it's always nice to see the Union Jack burning, is it not? After all they love ya hahaha
Dec 14th, 2011 - 01:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9S8KSm4QPk
The SNP can't win a referendum on the issue of independence. They know it too and so have delayed the idea for a few years in the hope that the Scots will come around to their way of thinking. Which appears unlikely. At least as part of the UK they have some say. On their own they'd be too small to be noticed on the world stage. A bit like Argentina in fact :-)
Dec 14th, 2011 - 02:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Actually Exbrain, we are a nation that puts it's flag on underwear. It's our sense of humour.
As for symbolism; action has always proved so much more effective. And when the opposition is burning, we can get a new flag.
@24 Redhoyt
Dec 14th, 2011 - 03:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well, one referendum is held we'll know for sure. Anyway, in the case independence won, they will surely enter Euro. And you would likely have less say in the world stage. After all, you would be smaller.
And surely Argentina is never noticed. Specially regarding economics.
Quite correct - Argentina remains a debtor nation using manipulated statistics to claim a lower inflation rate in an attempt to con the people.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 05:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina's economics are nothing to write home about.
Now if they paid their debts, Argentina might just be taken seriously !
Redhoyt, I can assure you that if there's something that people don't want here in my country is borrowing more money from foreigners.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 06:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0I disagree with the method, but anyway I think that using Argentine money from Argentine banks estimulates more economic activity in our own country, which is the important thing for us.
I don't any foreigners are overly keen on lending to Argentina any more - no guarantee of getting paid!
Dec 14th, 2011 - 07:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0They can either invest the money or buy stuff from us. Taking money from outside also generates economic activity there. I prefer the whole of the bank economic cycle to happen inside my country.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 07:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Getting back on track. l would say, NO.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 08:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't go digging anywere, but most of all:-
DO NOT LET ANY ARGENTINES BECOME INVOLVED.
NO,NEIN,NON,NYET.
They will milk it for everything they can get.
Now that's a woman for ya - got her mind on the job !!
Dec 14th, 2011 - 08:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0:-)
lsolde,
Dec 14th, 2011 - 08:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0I became involved. You just failed at your goal before even saying it.
Archaeological research is great. Battlefied archaeology is truly fascinating and enjoyable even for laypeople. This project should absolutely be authorized for the sake of the historical knowledge it will generate. Having said that, I appreciate that 2012 might not be the best time to conduct the research if friends and relatives of those who fought and died in 1982 are on-site at the time. As for the participation of Argentine archaeologists, may I remind some of the posters here that nobody chooses their nationality (and therefore cannot be blamed for merely being born somewhere)? I'd be against choosing a known propagandist or a government puppet to participate in the dig, but I'm also certain there are Argentine researchers qualified and capable of adding value to the endeavor. Those scientists are probably living overseas due to the sorry state of scientific research and funding in Argentina. It shouldn't be too hard to choose an Argentinean whose intellectual honesty is rendered unimpeachable by the fact s/he has conducted research at Harvard, Oxford or Stanford and published peer-reviewed articles. The more educated and embedded in a scientific field the candidate is, the least likely s/he'll be afflicted by the crippling jingoism we often perceive among the gullible hordes that mistake ignorance for patriotism.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 08:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0@33 Dan4
Dec 14th, 2011 - 08:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0One thing among our goverment I can't complain is science. It has grow A LOT since they are in power. They are giving good money to them.
In 2006, Nature magazine put us as one of the 19 leading countries. Our progress is remarkable in biomedicine, nuclear science, nano technology, satellites and agrarian technology.
Since 2006, it has only improved. You should visit Tecnopolis.
It's both insensitive and too early - I hope the FIG denies permission, and I hope Argentina objects too.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Juan Stanic (Comment #34):
Dec 14th, 2011 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0A governnment that truly wants to improve science doesn't silence the statisticians at INDEC while forcing them to report to laypeople with no knowledge in the field. It doesn't fine think tanks and consulting firms when they publish figures the government doesn't like.
A government that values science doesn't email what is virtually a gag order to every single researcher funded by CONICET.
A government that respects the pursuit of knowledge and intellectual honesty doesn't create an exclusionary institute devoted to writing revisionist history under the guidance of a known propagandist like Pacho O'Donnell.
Giving money to selected researchers who follow the party line is not the same as having a good research policy. Look at the peer-reviewed articles published by Argentine researchers and you'll notice that most of them are written by people who are living/working overseas.
As a full-time researcher, I know that I can't go back to Argentina now without giving up the intellectual honesty and independence necessary to continue my work. For that reason, I wouldn't trust an “official” or “government approved” Argentine archaeologist for the Falklands excavation project.
#20 No, the Scots don't hate the English, this is called banter. You may find this difficult to understand but we constantly take the piss out of each other.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0@36
Dec 14th, 2011 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mike Bingham will like to have a few words with you. At least we don't death-threaten people, nor expell them because they bring facts we dislike. I don't defend our goverment either, but at most they just fire the people at INDEC, or don't fund your research.
The fact is reasearch is done here, progress is done here, and since 1990 the country wasn't doing so well in Science. It's one of the few things I take my hat off about this goverment.
Juan Stanic (Comment #38):
Dec 14th, 2011 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A) You went from stating that Argentina's progress in research was remarkable to “at least we don't death-threaten [sic] people, nor expell them because they bring facts we dislike.” When you're done moving the goalposts, let me know. Changing the parameters of the discussion is no way to win an argument. Maybe you'd know that if you had a research background or had taken epistemology and research methodology courses.
B) The Mike Bingham case shows that the British justice system works, because a single individual took on very powerful people and won. What are the odds of a regular Argentine citizen winning a lawsuit against Guillermo Moreno or Anibal Fernandez? How much trust would you put in the independence of the Argentine judiciary?
C) Defending the quality of research policy in Argentina is like defending the quality of the protected national industry during one of the “import substitution” policy waves that afflicted the country. It's done predominantly by those who don't know any better and lack the basis for comparison. Deluding yourself about the presumed high quality of a substandard product doesn't do anyone any good.
38 JuanStanic
Dec 14th, 2011 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh great, the Bingam thing again.
Bingham came unstuck because he did rubbish science and he made things up, including his own CV and his claims about death threats. I know about this because I heard it at first hand.
The worst of it is, all his rubbish is still there in the web. Never mind all the dozens of peer- reviewed papers in reputable journals that come to different conclusions. Search for penguins and falklands and his crap is what comes up.
40 Monty69, Did you hear about Mike Bingham Supreme Court victory against your colonial government for Human Rights Abuse following their attempts to silence his work as well?
Dec 14th, 2011 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@39
Dec 14th, 2011 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0a) Bad traslating from my Spanish to my English. I intended it with the Spanish meaning.
Besides, I never moved my goalposts. Argentine science progress is remarkable. And I just brought that fact to compare to what you said about treatment of researchers here. Hardly any parameter. Besides, if you really want to have a good discussion about this we can have it via mail.
b)None at all, our Judiciary is shitty. But I can sleep safely knowing my goverment at least treats me with respect, even knowing I'm against them.
c) We have done a couple of satellites last decade. SAC-D comes mind. We are developing Tronador II rocket, making us selfreliable in sending satellites to space. France, Brazil, India, Canada and the USA cooperate with us. Nature magazine praised the progress and claimed we were reverting the brain drain.
@40
What did the court said about what you say? I mean that he made things up and such.
#42 If you look at Redhoyt's blog there is a copy of the transcript of the court judgement. Its long but does cast a rather different light; particularly the comments by the judge about Bingham being the author of his own misfortune. Bingham claimed a doctorate from a non-existant Irish University that sold degrees by mail order.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In answer to your question, Bingham's research was contradicted by peer review that his conclusions weren't sustainable from the data presented.
42 JuanStanic
Dec 14th, 2011 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I haven't got time to look this up properly, but.....
The FIG had five reasons for objecting to Bingham. Four of them were upheld by the court and they included Bingham lying about his qualifications and experience.
The judge found in favour of Bingham on one count; FIG had no right to deport him on the grounds that he spoke against the government. (I can't remember how exactly it was worded). In my view and the view of many here, that judgement was spot on. You can't deport someone because they don't agree with you.
Personally, I think this was an example of poor judgement by FIG in the face of extreme frustration. I'm not excusing it, but I can see how it happened. It's very hard to respond in a dignified way to the kind of extreme nonsense that Bingham comes out with. The penguins have evidently not all died in the last 15 years, but the damage has been done.
Can someone please tell me what's the relation between Nestor Kirchner and this guy Ernst Ludwig Kirchner? They look very similar, big nose, a mad look at life, the problem was in the eyes of Néstor
Dec 14th, 2011 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Ludwig_Kirchner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Ludwig_Kirchner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Ludwig_Kirchner
@42
Dec 14th, 2011 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where's his blog?
@43
Okay, thanks for the info.
I understand the situation. But I know that government attitudes always come from their way of thinking and doing stuff, and it's quite disturbing to see that people who think deportation is right are part of a small community I tought was quiet and like many Patagonian towns.
Fine, Juan Stanic. Keep looking inward and believing Argentinean science is doing great. If fantasies make you happy, go ahead and enjoy them. I actually work as a researcher so, unlike you, I cannot afford the luxury of self-delusion.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree 100% with 33 Dan4. And would add that Mr Clemens should try the famous American 'Antidiet' Plan which would soon give him a better body that will in turn relieve him of some of his fears. We, Argentines, are not all cut by the same scissors and, as he may be aware of, scientists of all schools in all countries do not think in anything else but getting what others were not able to, and show it to the public. So I cannot see why Argentine archaeologists should be excluded. Peace & Love. Cheers!
Dec 14th, 2011 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dan, I'm not under self-delusion.
Dec 14th, 2011 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fact is that 10 years ago, our science was in worst shape. If in 2001 it was X, now its 5X, maybe more. The fact is that compared to what it recently was, it is doing great.
Here you got some more facts:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2274995/Cow-farts-collected-in-plastic-tank-for-global-warming-study.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2274995/Cow-farts-collected-in-plastic-tank-for-global-warming-study.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2274995/Cow-farts-collected-in-plastic-tank-for-global-warming-study.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2274995/Cow-farts-collected-in-plastic-tank-for-global-warming-study.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2274995/Cow-farts-collected-in-plastic-tank-for-global-warming-study.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2274995/Cow-farts-collected-in-plastic-tank-for-global-warming-study.html
Juan Stanic:
Dec 15th, 2011 - 04:58 am - Link - Report abuse 05X of utter crap is still crap. Conducting research in Argentina is like participating in the Special Olympics. Even if you improve and win, you're still retarded.
Monty - if I may ?
Dec 15th, 2011 - 05:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/case-of-michael-charles-bingham-2003/
@50
Dec 15th, 2011 - 05:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0First of all, don't get retarded people into this. They are better people than we can both ever hope to be and we should learn from them.
Second, in what position are you to judge scientific progress in the country and say it's crap?
Have you came here and done research?
And what's so retarded about science here that annoys you so much?
Juan Stanic:
Dec 15th, 2011 - 06:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am a researcher and I've conducted research both in and out of Argentina, as I made clear in previous posts. I see that reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Because I've worked as a researcher in 4 continents so far, I can make an authoritative comparison. Can you claim similar qualifications and experience, or are you just talking simply because it's free?
http://www.penguin-news.com/index.php?option=com_flexicontent&view=items&cid=30:politics&id=187:falklands-government-say-no-approach-made-for-archeological-dig-on-battlefields&Itemid=20
Dec 15th, 2011 - 07:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0I still think it's far to soon - maybe in a century or so !
http://america.infobae.com/notas/40174-Por-pedido-de-la-Argentina-Uruguay-prohibio-el-arribo-de-barcos-ingleses
Dec 15th, 2011 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oops... no Falksland flag ships welcome in Uruguay anymore!
Pirats go home!
Oooooppppsssssss.
Dec 15th, 2011 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'de buques con bandera de las Islas Malvinas'
Dec 15th, 2011 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry chaps... there are no such ships ..... Isla Malvinas is a figment of your fevered imagination........
You know Frankie, that flag with the scare sheep.
Dec 15th, 2011 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very soon Punta A. and Puerto Williams...
53 Dan4 (#)
Dec 15th, 2011 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like you I have internationally recognised qualification: I am a professional engineere and also qualified to lecture in statistics.
The Argies here seem to think that their uninformed views of everything should be considered as if they were so qualified.
For some, their stupidity is breathtaking to behold and they are utterly beyond educating.
Best of luck, it's like knocking your head against a brick wall: there's a limit to the amount of crap I can tolerate each day.
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