MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
The Falklands, like a duck in basket
Penguin News Deputy Editor John Fowler explains it from the point of view of the people that actually matter - the Islanders. Read full article
Penguin News Deputy Editor John Fowler explains it from the point of view of the people that actually matter - the Islanders. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesdear islanders
Jan 04th, 2012 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you are so Argentines as we are , beacuse you Were born in our land.
We want a constructive relationship with you, we want to join us, we are waiting you with open arms. Do not be fooled by the UK they only thing they want is to take advantage of you, they use you as puppets and you do not realize. If you join to form an unite nation, you can develop.
Think of your children, what future can have on a remote island with a monarchy that wants to use politically, and make money, in an atmosphere of political instability and fear of being constantly invaded.
You can not grow well in peace ever, that is not quality of life.
Please reflect.
think about your future and your children
Join us
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13780144
Amazing. Simply amazing.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bl*wJobK - you obviously didn't read it, but then you are a complete idiot.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Islanders are exactly that, Falkland Islanders. They are not you, they were not born in Argentina, and they don't want their children to have anything to do with Argentina.
So its not going to happen, you complete d*ck !
dear BJK
Jan 04th, 2012 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you argentines are the descendants of Spanish and Italian white supremacist murderers who butchered the inhabitants of what is now argentina before taking their land and colonizing it with white Europeans.
you also stole vast expanses land from Paraguay during the war of the triple alliance, a war in which you also quietly exterminated the African descended segment of your population.
ergo argentina is in no position to whine about britain peacefully taking control of a territory of which britain was the only legitimate claimant (as evidenced by Vernet seeking the UK's permission before starting his colony).
argentina has demonstrated through both it's unprovoked attacks on the islanders, and it's atrocities against native argentines that it has no interest in anything but appeasing it's grossly inflated national ego, and sees nothing wrong with destroying the lives and livelihoods of thousands of innocents to do so.
it is in the UK's interest to keep the islanders free, prosperous and safe. it is argentina's aim to either subjugate them and disenfranchise them, or simply ethnically cleanse them. the islanders know very well which nation attacked them in 1982 and continues to try and hurt them, and which nation stood up and liberated them.
as for their children i could cite the nightmarish poverty and malnutrition among native children in modern argentina as a precedent for the level of argentina's “care” towards children, but instead i will reference a recent news story and ask, why should the islanders wish to be part of a nation which routinely conducts illegal experiments on babies for profit?
one thing i will say is the islanders have a far brighter future than any argentine, and they will have a government far freer of corruption, repression and outright dictatorship than that of argentina.
reflect on what i have said and stop acting like the brain-dead fascist wannabes that led you to humiliation the last time you underestimated us
The best thing for both the UK and Argentina is to try, for a change to put themselves in the Islanders' shoes. If I were an islander....I would not like Argentina to change my way of life or having an influence on how to conduct my business. What I would like to see is for Argentina to help the islands economy by bringing them into Mercosur and other markets, including tourism and commerce.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for the UK, well..the sun set in the British Empire long time ago....and it is still set. Thank you very much for protecting the islands, but at some point I would like to have a police presence...independent from the UK. Helping with the European markets would be nice!
The article is very well written. The most sensible thing to do for both of them is to gradually “back-off” and let the islander develop and grow according to their own way of life.!
1
Jan 04th, 2012 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0dear islanders
- Creep.
you are so Argentines as we are , beacuse you Were born in our land.
- Not true.
We want a constructive relationship with you,
- No you don't. Not under old Turkey neck.
we want to join us,
-Go ahead. Join yourselves.
we are waiting you with open arms.
-I prefer to see you arms up in the air like when your gallant army surrendered in 1982
Do not be fooled by the UK they only thing they want is to take advantage of you, they use you as puppets and you do not realize.
- Yeah right.
If you join to form an unite nation, you can develop.
- developing quite nicely as we are thanks.
Think of your children, what future can have on a remote island with a monarchy that wants to use politically, and make money, in an atmosphere of political instability and fear of being constantly invaded.
- If thats what you think why does Argentina want such remote Islands? What about your own poor children living in squalor in filthy shanty towns? As for this fear of being constantly invaded? I thought Kirchner and her puppy dogs rejected armed force? Has she been telling lies again?
You can not grow well in peace ever, that is not quality of life.
-That's rich coming from some newly arrived Hispanic immigrant.
Please reflect.
think about your future and your children Join us.
- Thought about it for all of 2 seconds. Not a snowballs chance in hell. GSY.
1 BJK
Jan 04th, 2012 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dear BJK
We are not Argentines.
We were not born in Argentina.
You are trying to bully us into submission, not welcome us with 'open arms'.
We are thinking of our children, who have better prospects than most Argentines could dream of.
The British 'monarchy' isn't using us and doesn't make any money out of us. Not one penny.
We are not under threat of invasion, are we?
Was there anything about your post that was true? Nope, can't find anything.
no threat to your brothers who decide to be Argentine, let each one think freely. When everything worse soon, remember here in Argentina we are waiting with open arms, we want the best for you, the dictators are dead or rotting in jail paying for what they did, we are a new nation that thinks of freedom, justice and that peace can accomplish great things, do not be fooled by the English, they take advantage of you, do not respect a queen who is thousands of miles and no interest other than his own welfare while close to it growing poverty of its citizens.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0join us
What an article full of British arrogance. Disgusting.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Take a look at this one better:
http://www.policymic.com/articles/3170/will-new-falklands-dispute-with-latin-america-lead-britain-to-war-in-2012
Argentina seems to have chances to win the diplomatic war.
I suggest you to start getting used to having “prisoners, corrupt politicians, prostitutes and wind-screen washers and carpet-baggers of all kinds” all around you any time soon.
Or go back home.
@BJK
Jan 04th, 2012 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you mean one guy who was forced to attain citizenship in order to be with his family without harassment from argentine scumbags like you?
and unlike your third world nation, the islanders enjoy full freedom and full human rights, something argentina denies both the few surviving natives, and any argentine who opposes the government.
and as for “everything being worse” your strongest diplomatic and economic attack on the islands since the war (which is already falling apart with the oil rig heads through Brazilian waters unmolested and unopposed, and the recent royal navy vessel docking happily in both Brazil and Uruguay) has resulted in precisely zero pressure on the UK, and zero negative impact on the Islanders.
argentina has proven not only it's lack of spine with regards to international politics, but a total lack of any power or importance.
the dictators crimes are still celebrated by argentines when it suits them, and you still celebrate your attempt to subjugate the islanders. not to mention your continued celebration of the genocides which allowed you to take the land you currently possess which are celebrated on your money.
argentina, despite it's self righteous posing, remains the same self obsessed and jingoistic joke it was in 1982, and has continued to cling to delusions of power, importance and being somehow “above” both moral and international law. freedom is non existent for those who oppose the government or are native, justice is a joke, and argentina continues to prove itself an aggressive and spineless nation by continuing to try and bully the islanders into submission.
grow a spine and think more about dragging your nation out of poverty, corruption and ignorance, or even how to make amends with the natives on whose land you inhabit, before whining about our islands
Mr John Fowler
Jan 04th, 2012 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did this “prisoners, corrupt politicians, prostitutes and wind-screen washers and carpet-baggers of all kinds” killed Royal Marine Alan Addis?
Ask the local poor “ducks”...
@Marcos Alejandro
Jan 04th, 2012 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 01 royal marine disappears under fairly suspicious circumstances - argentines like you whine about it for 30 years
30,000 argentine civilians get butchered by the government - nobody seems to care
strange how such hypocrisy is so celebrated in argentina. but then again why else would it be such a hysterical third world joke.
Do not be fooled by the UK they only thing they want is to take advantage of you, they use you as puppets and you do not realize. If you join to form an unite nation, you can develop.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think of your children, what future can have on a remote island with a monarchy that wants to use politically, and make money, in an atmosphere of political instability and fear of being constantly invaded.
Didnt your Ambassador say all the Falklanders were welfare scroungers off the UK? you argies dont arf talk bollox
@11
Yes the missing Royal Marine Alan Addis
What happend to your missing?
Desaparecidos
http://www.yendor.com/vanished/
@5 It is for the Falkland Islanders to decide if they no longer wish to be British. They choose to remain British.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can understand their decision with such aggressive neighbours.
Dear Islanders
Jan 04th, 2012 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody wants to colonize, subjects not want it to ours. We respect their idiosyncrasies, their language, traditions, etc.. Do not make the same mistakes, childish and irrational, of the military dictatorship that so damaged our reputation as a civilized and tolerant of cultural diversity. We are a young democracy and we learn from our mistakes.
We have many offers to them, everything is negotiable except one thing: Argentina's sovereignty over the Falklands.
I'd like to give a couple of alternatives for its future:
a) Argentina could buy all the islands and would be millionaires, could live with that money you and your descendants anywhere in the world, eg England.
b) They could integrate the Argentine state as an autonomous province with its own government and representatives in the national congress. If you do not want to live in continental Argentine city we could accept for a settlement allowing the other big island
Argentina's constitution states that the natural resources of the provinces are not the national state, therefore you would be responsible for providing fishing licenses or permits for the extraction of oil, provided that allow the participation of Argentine companies would have no objections.
Look at you a little mirror, we have already done so a constitutional clause preventing the possession of these islands by force, so do not be afraid for us. You are less than 3000 inhabitants and as I see its population is declining, young people who go to study abroad again just for Christmas, as do tourists. They have a high quality of life, but there is no future for their children.
England eventually let go of her hand as they did with Hong Kong, even against the wishes of the inhabitants of that city who wanted to remain British, and negotiations with Argentina the transfer of sovereignty even against your will .
Excuse my poor English, but I think I'm clear.
12 Braedon, Nobody seems to care??
Jan 04th, 2012 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Former Argentine dictator sentenced again”
December 29, 2011
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-12-29/americas/world_americas_argentina-dictator-sentence_1_argentine-dictator-dirty-war-detention?_s=PM:AMERICAS
“Former Argentine dictator Jorge Videla sentenced to life in prison”
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-12-29/americas/world_americas_argentina-dictator-sentence_1_argentine-dictator-dirty-war-detention?_s=PM:AMERICAS
@15
Jan 04th, 2012 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And why dont you fuck off
Excuse my French but I think I'm clear
Marcos,
Jan 04th, 2012 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://twitter.com/#!/ggreenwald/status/152748251836203009
John Fowler - Penguin News - Stanley
Jan 04th, 2012 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falklands are not a duck in the basket. The islanders are British. There are no third parties.
Comment pathetic and pitiful Jon Fowler. You have eyes but not see, have ears but do not want to hear. Will there ever researched the historical facts of the conflict and its historical and social contexts? The nature of conflict is that the Falklands United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity of Argentina. So hard to understand this historical evidence so clear, proven by the universal history in the context of imperialism and colonialism in the UK in 500 years of history.
There are no third parties to the conflict. A well-known trap made by England world is to incorporate the transplant population and a product of colonialism, as part of the problem when in fact they are not. Just read and observe the resolutions committee of the United Nations decolonization conducted annually by emphasizing all the years in which the Malvinas Question General Assembly of the United Nations included this doctrine - the principle of territorial integrity by referring to the interests and NOT the wishes of the population of the islands - in its resolution 2065 (XX) of 1965, ratified by later resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37 / 9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 (39 / 6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute. No self-determination.
No more cheating, you are responsible and take your reality and comply with UN resolutions. The world is demanding.
@ 17 stick up your junta
Jan 04th, 2012 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is the reason his offense free. It is painful reality, feel powerless to see the unvarnished truth? Friend should not feel like the Argentines do not blame tenesmus their children to seek new horizons because they see that there is nothing there for them in those deserted islands.
Excuse my poor English, but I think I'm clear.
this Island you Argies keep going on about Malpenis is it any were near Shangi La or Atlantis, also there is more chance of large parts of the Argentine becoming Chilean or Uruguayan than there is of any part of the Falklands becoming argie
Jan 04th, 2012 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@19
Jan 04th, 2012 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A well-known trap made by England world is to incorporate the transplant population and a product of colonialism, as part of the problem when in fact they are not
What like this
Emilio Marcos Palma (born January 7, 1978) is an Argentine national who is the first person known to be born on the continent of Antarctica. Emilio weighed 7 pounds and 8 ounces (3.4 kg) when born in Fortín Sargento Cabral at the Esperanza Base near the tip of the Antarctic peninsula. His father, Captain Jorge Emilio Palma, was head of the Argentine army detachment at the base.[1] While ten other people have since been born on Antarctica, Palma's birthplace remains the most southerly of anyone in history.
As part of a sovereignty dispute over Argentine Antarctica, Argentina airlifted in Emilio's mother, Silvia Morella de Palma, then seven months pregnant.[2] He was automatically granted Argentine citizenship by the government since his parents were both Argentine citizens, and he was born in the claimed Argentine Antarctica.
I have met islanders in Chile and they tell me they can not express their own opinion of not wanting to be British because many suffer discrimination and threats, there is a single thought, which is imposed and who opposes it is threats, such as the recent islander who decided to be an Argentine who claim to be threatened. That is not freedom, is a tyranny, it is a shame.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like many comments that are so arrogant, ignorant, full of profanity own poorly educated people that calls itself civilized but still barbarian.
So it is time that those who are silent voice their opinions, to open dialogue with not only Argentina but between you, and do not impose fantasies that can not be sustained for much longer, the time for change is coming.
Join Us
@ 21 Kelper San
Jan 04th, 2012 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I see that his view is more a hope than a reality check. Every year welcomes thousands Argentina (Many thousands more than its own population of 3000 inhabitants) of citizens from neighboring countries who come to settle in Argentina you can check with the data obtained from the 2010 Census. I will say now is a feeling but I think that this is because the implicit desire to be Argentine, Paraguay has a population of 9 million people of which 3 million live in Argentina. Recently the President of Uruguay Mujica publicly express Suy aging population, is not that Uruguayans not play it more and more young people in this country decide to settle in Argentina. No talk of Bolivians. I think, and it is my humble opinion, that before the end of this century, to the rich reality of the facts, all these countries will be asked to rejoin as provinces of Argentina.
Excuse my poor English, but I think I'm clear.
18 Forgetit87
Jan 04th, 2012 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Must be weird to live in a country which holds even its most powerful figures accountable for torture”
G. Greenwald
I couldn't agree more.
BJK, excusse me, but in Malvinas, it is impossivel to find any child. There are just oldest british hypocisy and the son of this. They find a teacher that she is a maori people, kakakakaka, KIAORA!.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is not freedom, is a tyranny, it is a shame.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like many comments that are so arrogant, ignorant, full of profanity own poorly educated people that calls itself civilized but still barbarian.
Not like the upstanding Argies
GlaxoSmithKline Argentina Laboratories company was fined 400.000 Pesos (approx 90.000 dollars) by Judge Marcelo Aguinsky following a report issued by the National Administration of Medicine, Food and Technology (ANMAT) for the killing of 14 babies during illegal lab vaccine trials conducted between 2007 and 2008.
Dear XAVIERV
Jan 04th, 2012 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Denying the islanders their basic human rights for the “crime” of being born there is trying to colonise them. your official government propaganda endorses the near total ethnic cleansing of the islanders and their replacement by argentines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EygylhL9mTw
argentina has shown no respect or tolerance, for the islanders, for non white european immigrants (see past argentine constitutions demanding only white european immigrants) and for native argentines from whom your ancestors stole the land you live in.
The islanders have every right to not want anything to do with argentina. You have brought them nothing but war, blackmail, intimidation and harassment. argentina has continued to act as it did during the dictatorship, the only difference being you are no longer are in any capacity to threaten the islanders.
Argentina already tried bribing the islanders, it failed miserably as the islanders don’t want your money, they want to live free of argentine subjugation and intimidation.And why would they want to be part of a corrupt, poverty stricken nation which has shown them nothing but hatred and contempt? You have nothing to offer them.
Why should the islanders trust argentina’s constitution? They are happy with their own government and have voted to keep it that way. Besides argentina’s government has a terrible record of breaking its own laws, so your constitution means less than nothing
As for your pitifully transparent pledges to “never use force”, the only reason for this is because you know you stand no chance of taking the islands by force. If you had the power you would invade them in a heartbeat and would undoubtedly show the islanders the same genocidal contempt you showed the native argentines.
By the way Hong Kong was leased from china for 99 years, we were legally required to give it back, and simply chose not to try and renew or extend the lease as china would have legal right to refuse it.
22 stick up your junta
Jan 04th, 2012 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately you are confused and making a big mistake this concept to analyze a fact, regardless of the historical and social processes .-
Emilio Palma was born in Argentine territory claimed in the Antarctic Treaty. This case is under the context of the Antarctic Treaty and in the future will be decided at the UN's diplomatic way to rule on its sovereignty. Without the use of weapons and that is not debated in committee of the United Nations decolonization. Antarctica is not a territory to colonize. The Falklands if colonize a territory as the committee of the UN Decolonization Committee.
You have a misconception and wrong of colonialism. Read the decolonization committee resolutions of the UN and finally understand that case is to apply the principle of territorial integrity, and that case is to apply the principle of self determination. No easy task, each case is different.
The specificity of the Malvinas question is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity of Argentina. Is ruled out then the possibility of applying the principle of self determination, as its exercise by the Islanders would cause the “breach of national unity and territorial integrity” of Argentina.
If the rate of decrease of population persists in the Falklands 20 years, more British soldiers islanders!
Jan 04th, 2012 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 030, I agree with u, my friend, after 20 years, maybe I will bloog with people from Nepal (use people as a bastards) about Malvinas.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@29
Jan 04th, 2012 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argie planting is argie planting, dress it how you like :-)
@raul
Jan 04th, 2012 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0wow, still trying to peddle government propaganda? even the north koreans try to keep things fresh.
tell me what documents show that vernet's settlers were expelled? because just about every historical document pertaining to the time shows quite the opposite.
for example “VOYAGES OF THE ADVENTURE AND BEAGLE. VOLUME II”.
(http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?itemID=F10.2&viewtype=text&pageseq=326&keywords=brisbane
Page 271
this source, from a text which has been researched and analyzed by historians and scientists for almost 200 years due to Darwin's importance and relevance, is a first hand account of what occurred.
do you have anything to disprove it?
not only that but argentina's own veneration of Antonio Rivero calls into question how he could be on the islands months after all argentines were supposedly evicted
also your propaganda would undoubtedly indicate that argentina has zero rights over ANY of the territory it took from the natives, or from Paraguay during the war of the triple alliance, thoroughly violating their territorial integrity and national unity.
yet i do not foresee argentina renouncing ownership in the near future
neither do i foresee argentina apologizing to the natives or to Paraguay for these actions, but then again i doubt argentina will allow the native inhabitants to exist much longer if they make too much noise.
EXCELLENT job Argentina and this is the best evidence. They uselessly try to react and distort facts. But it's too late. They haven't admitted that the world had taken its stance many many years ago. The news is that they truth and right are emerging. You may hire as many lobbying agencies as you wish, the whole world knows that there is a sovereignty dispute now. Too late for you, can't change reality.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 28 Braedon
Jan 04th, 2012 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm Argentinian, I am not of European descent, my mother is my father Paraguay and mulatto offspring. But you can not blame the current Argentine for the wrongs done by their ancestors. As well the current British citizens are not responsible for the atrocities committed by their ancestors in America, Asia and Africa. I am a teacher in mathematics and law student, as such I know that guilt is individual, not collective. If you want to insist on attributing to us the mistakes of others is just an excuse not to go to escape the merits.
In 180 days we could be if we were operating militarily, Russia has many military supplies that do not know where to place them, so if Argentina waive the strength to take the islands is not because we lack eggs, but because we have learned a lesson that force only tare discord among brethren. I hope your generation do not understand this because even his wounds have not healed but the coming generations of islanders, who are increasingly appreciative of the situation from another perspective.
I do not want to come live in my neighborhood if you do not, no widow's style is going to change. We can discuss Malvinas years but will never be an independent state and that's not going to change. Tell me you want to continue just as they are and I say that if you change the day that England taxpayers sick of maintaining a military base to defend democracy instead of using that force to monitor a tyranny anywhere else in the world.
Excuse my poor English, but I think I'm clear.
26 Kipling (#)
Jan 04th, 2012 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0with the greatest of my respect
if no children do not think there's a big problem? more reason to say what is the future that you have there. They will be only foreign soldiers to defend itself. You're going to die childless and self-determination has no value then.
Please study the case of Tierra del Fuego Island, the Malvinas alter-ego, if you had been administered by Argentina, the population and economy is growing every year.
Long Live Ralf McLennary
Jan 04th, 2012 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Long Live Scotland -- Long Live Republic
So I can basically sum up what the average Argentine citizen feels that the future holds.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0QUOTE “an atmosphere of political instability and fear of being constantly invaded.
You can not grow well in peace ever, that is not quality of life.
Please reflect.
think about your future and your children
Join us”
I think that the words “or else” should probably be insterted at the end of that little gem.
However I am glad that BJK admits why we have to garrison the islands for QUOTE “to defend democracy”.
I seem to remember from my history that a certain A Hitler also made a “last appeal to reason to the British people” in 1940 somewhat similar to that post.
We sent him packing, just like we'll send Argentina, in the fullness of time..
@19 Raul: “They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute. No self-determination.”
Jan 04th, 2012 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really? That's not what the UN Secretary General seems to think.
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2011/gacol3215.doc.htm
Addressing the first meeting of the 2011 substantive session of the Special Committee on Decolonization, United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called today for “concrete results” in the quest for self-determination by the world’s 16 remaining Non-Self-Governing Territories.
Those results could only be achieved through the concerted efforts of all stakeholders, including the Special Committee, the administering Powers and the peoples of the Territories, he said. “On a case-by-case basis, those Territories have to be given the opportunity to exercise their right to self-determination,” Mr. Ban added, emphasizing that dialogue aimed at improving cooperation between the Special Committee and the administering Powers continued to be “of utmost importance”.
@ 28 Braedon
Jan 04th, 2012 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Regarding Hong Kong will tell you that at least there was a treaty with China, saying there is a legal occupation. Instead the British occupation of the Falkland Islands is absolutely illegal. And do not tell me that there is no occupation, while a British soldier who received direct orders from the UK and not yours, the Falkland Islands remain a British occupation.
Excuse my poor English, but I think I'm clear.
@XAVIERVWell congratulations. You are one of the 3% of argentines who are not primarily European descended. However by argentina’s logic, you have less right to live there than the islanders do to live in the Falklands, as the land was conquered in the 1800s from its native inhabitants.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And Argentina blames Britain for everything including the dictatorship, the 1982 war, and the war of the triple alliance, and demands that the islanders suffer for Britain defying Argentina in 1833.
I do not personally blame you for what your ancestors did, nor do I demand you lose all your basic human rights because of it. I observe how shamelessly hypocritical it is for you to claim the islanders have no rights because of their history, while their own is far darker.
And in terms of history, looking at what every other nation did America (argentina and Spain’s crimes against natives) Asia (China alone killed tens of millions during the 19th century in various rebellions) and Africa (France, Belgium, and native African empires like the Zulus were far more brutal than us) we were benevolent by comparison.
And Russia has more incentive to keep relations with the UK than the poverty stricken and unstable Argentina. However it knows that it can gain favourable trade agreements by offering vague non committal support for “negotiations” with no detriment to relations with the UK as these statements mean nothing to all but argentina.
And if argentina had learned the lesson from history, it would have dropped its obsession with the Falklands, as this will always be a tool argentina’s government uses to gain nationalist support.
And the islanders have seen nothing but hatred from argentina. They fully appreciate the fact that the UK defends them. If they wish to be independent that is their choice, and the UK will step aside as it has done many times before. However thanks to argentine cowardice, this is unlikely to happen any time soon
@ 39 Crackpot
Jan 04th, 2012 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Islanders can speak out, angry, cursing .. But that will not change that will never be an independent country! I do not know whether they can maintain the status quo with England forever ..
Ask the Falklanders if they want the garrison to leave. I think you'll find the answers is “no.”
Jan 04th, 2012 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder why that it. Oh, I just remembered, it's because if there was no adequate deterrent present, a proper illegal occupation would be organised by Argentina and I bet you're lot would'nt leave if they were asked politely.
@40 Xavi: “Instead the British occupation of the Falkland Islands is absolutely illegal. ”
Jan 04th, 2012 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As far as I know, only Argentina (and possibly some of its cronies) thinks that it is illegal (which counts for jack sh*t, unfortunately). As soon as you come back with a formal judgement declaring Britain's administration to be illegal, then we can discuss it further. But, of course, that would require Argentina taking their case to the ICJ, which isn't going to happen. Until then, Argentina can continue to piss in the wind.
I challenge you to find a single Falkland Islander who doesn't welcome the prescence of the British Military in the Islands (after all, it's their military, too).
@XAVIERV
Jan 04th, 2012 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and how is Britain's occupation illegal? after Spain pulled out the only claimant was britain (who had an unbroken claim dating from it's discovery in the 1600s and which had never been renounced). and as spain never formally or informally gave argentina it's claim, argentina had zero right or legitimacy.
thats why Vernet had to seek British permission before starting his colony. when argentina tried to make him governor, this fact combined with the settlement breaking terms of the contract through illegal sealing britain arrived to take direct control, while allowing the settlers to stay.
(http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?itemID=F10.2&viewtype=text&pageseq=326&keywords=brisbane
while argentina complained at first, by the 1850 convention of settlement you had forgotten about it and officially declared that you had no dispute with britain, thus dropping any claim you may have tried to make.
http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?itemID=F10.2&viewtype=text&pageseq=326&keywords=brisbane
and seeing how argentina took advantage of the last time britain left a small garrison by invading with plans of ethnic cleansing, the current garrison enjoys legal and moral legitimacy as well as the support of the entirety of the islander population.
I opponent, I did not vote the current government of CFK, not to be confused with state government, it is true that we are a growing country but it is true that we are unstable. To claim that Argentina recognize the Falklands as an independent country is a no Argentine claudication is able to accept. 3000 people can not (that come in any city of Argentina) pretend to be an independent country and also take away much of their territory to our country. If you want to be a sovereign country I suggest you come to play and encourage immigration to populate the islands, perhaps the day with the capacity to defend their own hands and not have a chance outside.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Excuse my poor English, but I think I'm clear.
42 XAVIERV
Jan 04th, 2012 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who's angry and cursing? Most of the stuff you read on here from Argentine posters inspires frustration and disbelief on a bad day, but mainly mild amusement and boredom.
And we may yet be an independent nation, if and when we decide and not before.
If we turned up at the UN asking for recognition as an independent state there wouldn't be a thing you could do about it.
There are no Argentines here, no-one here wants to be Argentine, and we are three hundred miles away from Argentina.
The only place where this counts for nothing is that fantasy land in some Argentine heads.
You can put the idea that Falkland Islanders secretly want to be Argentine out of your head because it isn't true.In any case, there would be a referendum before any big change to our status.
@ XAVIERV
Jan 04th, 2012 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0seeing the rising poverty, disease and malnutrition among the surviving natives in argentina, plus widespread poverty, unemployment and deprivation among argentines, as well as massive government corruption, the status of “unstable” is fairly apt. these facts also provide plenty of reasons (besides argentine aggression, bullying and insults) for the islanders to not want anything to do with argentina.
the Vatican city has a population of 800 and is a recognized independent nation. besides this Nauru and Tuvalu have populations of 10000 and are fully independent. all of which provide legal precedent for the islands to become independent.
and the islanders already have full legislative and governmental powers in the islands. the UK only handles foreign relations and defense due to argentine aggression. and until argentina drops it's pathetic obsession with the islands, stops demanding the islanders be disenfranchised or ethnically cleansed, and start acting with basic decency, this protection continues to be justified.
@42 Xavi “Islanders can speak out, angry, cursing .. But that will not change that will never be an independent country! I do not know whether they can maintain the status quo with England forever ..”
Jan 04th, 2012 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, they can speak out. They are fortunate enough to have the freedom to do that (I dread to think what would have happened to that right if Galtieri's occupation had succeeded in 1982). I don't see too much angry cursing though. Just getting on with their lives ignoring the constant threats and bleating from Argentina.
The only thing that the Islands will never become is part of Argentina. Saying that, who knows - if the Argentine government goes on a significant charm offensive over a very long period of time (decades), then the Islanders might decide to trust them and change their minds. Unlikely, though. Full independence is still a likely long-term outcome - until then, it's UK administration all the way, I'm afraid.
Speaking of ethnic cleansing seems an anachronism that is only in the imagination of you to justify the 3000 British occupation of American territory.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We continue another day, I leave friends, I will continue another day. I'm going to the beach for a while to calm the 40 ° C does in my city! Long live the Malvinas Argentinas!
@ XAVIERV
Jan 04th, 2012 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0actually it is constantly demanded by your nation, either implicitly by stating the islanders have zero human rights, have no right to live there and are “squatters” (the implication being they will be evicted if argentina gets the islands), or explicitly by demanding they be thrown out if they do not accept argentina subjugating and disenfranchising them.
hell your own government calls for ethnic cleansing on a regular basis, even it's propaganda idealizes the islanders being cleansed of islanders
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EygylhL9mTw
and i hope you enjoy yourself at the beach, just try to remember the innocents who were slaughtered in order for that land to be taken.
meanwhile the islanders will rest happy knowing your country poses no threat to them or their children
@50 Xavi:
Jan 04th, 2012 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Enjoy the beach. I've heard that on a very clear day, you can just about make out the middle fingers and v-signs of Falkland Islanders poking over the horizon.
http://youtu.be/DKFrfw4VqBg
Jan 04th, 2012 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That, explains it all
39 Crackpot
Jan 04th, 2012 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I read your link. Do not try to change reality, do not lie. It refers to some cases but not all the same
The fact is that President Keith St. Aimee C24 Donato visited Argentina, but not the Falklands. The decolonization committee Falklands deal on last year, came to Argentina, but not Isles. Just because the dispute is about the principle of territorial integrity. No self-determination.
Read this link and you will notice because it was to the islands.
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/06/21/falklands-publicly-invites-decolonization-committee-president-to-visit-the-islands
Read it. When I say “all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute. No self-determination.” I refer to resolution 2065 (XX) of 1965, ratified by later resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37 / 9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 (39 / 6 ), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute.
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Jan 04th, 2012 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 054 Raul
Jan 04th, 2012 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Everyone knows there is a sovereignty dispute,
We have sovereignty and you dispute it.
And your point is?
@Artillero 601
Jan 04th, 2012 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and tell me does this video have indisputable evidence which proves beyond doubt the falseness of primary (ie documents from the time and location of pertinent events) historical sources such as
a)”Vernet to Aberdeen, “Dispatch 24”, in PRO FO 6 499, p. 4. Also quoted (in Spanish) in Caillet-Bois 1952, pp. 305”
Direct statement from Vernet saying that he agreed that the settlement (argentina's sole excuse at the time to claim the islands) was under british sovereignty, which he had already acknowledged when he approached the british government (thus torpedoing argentina's eventual attempt to claim the territory by making him governer, an illegal act as they held no legal right to do so)
b) darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?itemID=F10.2&viewtype=text&pageseq=326&keywords=brisbane
Page 271
direct testamony from cpt Brisbane who took the islands directly under british control, as well as proof that the settlers were allowed to stay (as well as Darwin confirming this)
c)en.wikisource.org/wiki/1850_Convention_of_Settlement
which shows argentina officially declaring it had no dispute with the UK, thus renouncing any remnant of it's failed claim by default
d)British and Foreign State Papers 1833-1834 Spain’s declaration
which confirms nether britain nor spain dropped it's claims in the 1700s
at the very least does this video provide primary sources to substantiate argentine claims of
a) all vernet's settlers being expelled
b) spain bequeathing it's claim on the islands to argentina
c) britain renouncing it's claim
d) argentina having sole and uncontested ownership in 1833?
if not the video is utterly irrelevent
#54 Raul:
Jan 04th, 2012 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's an official press relase from the UN - not my words, so you can't accuse me of lying. It refers to the “16” non-self-governing territories. So, unless they have added another one to the list, it also includes the Falkland Islands.
Ban Ki Moon calls on all those territories to be given the opportunity to exercise their right to self-determination. Why would he do that if the FI don't have that right?
What has the committee visiting Argentina got to do with anything. They probably just wanted to see if CFK was for real. Now they know what a psycho she is.
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Jan 04th, 2012 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 054 Raul
Jan 04th, 2012 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I read Crackpot's link as well.
It doesn't say anything about only 'some' non- self- governing territories.
It says all 16, and names them, including the Falkland Islands. I looked in vain for the words ''all except the Falklands because Argentina wants them''.
And I quote.... “United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called today for “concrete results” in the quest for self-determination by the world’s 16 remaining Non-Self-Governing Territories”.
Well that's pretty unequivocal isn't it?
How very disappointing for you.
You can not argue with this type of indoctrinated fool. I still get surprised by the the level of idiocy amongst the Pro Malvinas group here.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0O gIRA, and ForGay TIT are some of the most hilarious.
On PMS yet, Village Idiot?
Jan 04th, 2012 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@54 Raul: “Just because the dispute is about the principle of territorial integrity...”
Jan 04th, 2012 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina really needs to stop flogging that dead horse. You probably couldn't couldn't find a worse example of territorial integrity if you tried. The Islands are 300 miles off the coast of Argentina! Now, if the territory was an enclave, then you might have a case, although as I understand it, the concept of territorial integrity is meant to prevent regions from seceding from the main territory and not as an argument to claim other territories. Furthermore, the southern border of the Argentine Confederation in 1833 was more like 1000 miles away from the Islands, so certainly no case for territorial integrity based on any historical argument.
@57
Jan 04th, 2012 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Braedon, Did you understand what the video was all about?
Monty, please, show me your sovereignty, where is?
Jan 04th, 2012 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BJK,
a estos tipos se le están cajendo las tuercas del mecano, no sé si te diste cuenta, pero no les carbura mucho. Hacele un gestito de idéa.
#57 - Well said.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rolly, still trotting out that UN rubbish of yours. Still trying to raise long dead Resolutions from their graves. 2065 was stabbed in the back, by Argentina in 1982 - remember?
Last I saw, you had some crazy idea that if the issue went to the ICJ, then that court would pass it in to the C24 - laughable idiocy.
The UN has no mandate to resolve sovereignty issues, and 'territorial integrity' is subservient to 'self-determination'.
All you cr*p won't change that fact!
Kippers - our sovereignty lies in the unrenounced and unabandoned claim going back to 1690. Re-occupation in 1833 and 179 years of peaceful ownership (other than a couple of months in 1982). No complaints from the other claimant - Spain!
Lord Tom - well said, here's my extra bit to your broadside.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Our soverignty rests in the Union Flags that will fly over the islands, and in the determination of the Falklanders and everyone in the UK to resist our foes.
Our soverignty lies in the graves of our fallen servicemen who died to oppose a facist occupation and to free British people from foreign oppressors.
Our sovereignty has never been rescinded or revoked. We have maintained a claim to the Falklands since before Argentina became a state. We have never given up our claim. We were there first and our people live there now.
The ISLANDERS as you call them dont matter a whit in SOUTH AMERICA.
Jan 04th, 2012 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0WHY
Because an illegal force entered the South Atlantic and indulged in its usual trick of ETHNIC CLEANSING.
And then they do what COLONIALISTS do they send in the PLANTERS THE SCUM WHO MOVE IN WHEN THE LOCALS ARE MURDERED OR MOVED OUT
Dear Islanders
Jan 05th, 2012 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have read several comments that you do not want to be Argentine and after the experience they had not blame them. We have no intention of colonizing, which is why we invite you to return to their country of origin where they are sure to be welcome. Argies do not want to be if they so desire. Our interest is geographical and just want to recoup some of our territory. As an occasional population of these islands have all the freedom to choose to live here and now, with autonomy but under Argentina's sovereignty or go populate a neighborhood in Bristol and continued possession of the prestigious British citizenship. Because when you finish simplifying the equation is only up to the irreducible fraction, which are the two options I gave above.
69er. No F%6$-Off. You cannot have OUR Islands! This issue is over.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Dear Islanders
Jan 05th, 2012 - 12:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Living a dream, no one cares about your cause and soon to England either. Not a Latin country in its defense that will never happen. Live increasingly “isolated” from the rest of the world, children will realize why no more wish to return to their homes. You are fewer and older. Every year fewer people. It's time to soak the beard.
Dear XAVIERV
Jan 05th, 2012 - 01:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0I've considered your kind offer and feel I must decline. It would necessitate myself, Mr M and all the little Ms chopping ourselves into several small pieces so that we could return to our several countries of origin, although the family trees don't go back far enough to tell us where all of these may be.
I feel I also should tell you to save yourself further embarrassment that telling people to 'go back where they came from' is associated in our culture with a very low kind of right- wing nationalist racism.
And trying to blind us rustics with your grasp of elementary school mathematics merely illustrates your neo-colonial prejudices. Happily, we are expensively educated at the expense of the government and know when we are being patronised.
X Nerve - history clearly demonstrates that we don't give a flying f*rt what South America thinks. An irrelevant bunch of tin pot dictatorships and Banana Republics, Uruguay is the only light there, and badly bullied by her neighbours for it!
Jan 05th, 2012 - 01:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0This year marks 180 years since your first invasion, and 30 since the last - fancy going for a 3rd ?? It is your only hope :-)
Monty, excusse me, in Argentina, we don´t need patrosined for talking about Malvinas. if u are not patrosined to be here ... how do u go to Malvinas? swiming? are u part of aborigem people from South America? Onas, Patagones, Tehuelches, Mapuches, etc?. I recoomend you to go home!
Jan 05th, 2012 - 01:19 am - Link - Report abuse 071 XAVIERV
Jan 05th, 2012 - 01:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0No, every year we are more and younger. You just made that up.
Can I refer you to the FI census? I'm sure your mighty intellect will have no trouble visualising a population pyramid.
http://www.falklands.gov.fk/documents/Census%20Report%202006.pdf
In fact,we are soon going to have to build yet another extension to the primary school. Onwards and upwards.
Found a reason for China's support !
Jan 05th, 2012 - 02:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/china-argentina-and-mutual-support/
Redhoyt, We are getting important information from the Chinese as well, we have to prepare for the handover ceremony...
Jan 05th, 2012 - 02:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVZzRY0X6_g
Argentina's being handed over to China ?? Well that makes sense I suppose :-)
Jan 05th, 2012 - 02:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0@66
Jan 05th, 2012 - 02:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0#57 - Well said. ... my foot! that means you did not understand what it was said in the video either. Come on brother ! :-))
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Jan 05th, 2012 - 02:41 am - Link - Report abuse 080 Kipling, Gracias.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 02:53 am - Link - Report abuse 078 Lord Tonto
Not yet, we are not English :-)
Remember Hong Kong? Don't be afraid to watch the ceremony video at #77.
You are already used to handover the empire(once upon a time)
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Jan 05th, 2012 - 02:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 03:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 03:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 03:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0jajaja !!
Jan 05th, 2012 - 03:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 03:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0XAV- facts all wrong- you must be Argentiniian! - Our Population is 3000 and INCREASING - and the great majority of our students who go overseas to study COME BACK HOME to work.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 03:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0There - 2 FACTS for you.
Is the Tejano Astillero getting jealous? :-))
Jan 05th, 2012 - 04:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Kipling, Artillero loves this gordito :-)
“Birds of same feather flocks together”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RWPne7Qre8
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Jan 05th, 2012 - 05:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 10:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Islands seem to cause disputes everywhere. Vietnam and China are arguing over the Spratly Islands - where no one lives, except the oil underneath.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 10:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0China says Taiwan is theirs - but the Islanders disagree. China continues their stance, but Taipei still self governs, with protection from American gunboat diplomacy.
Japan and Russia keep taking the Kuril islands from each other in various wars.
Meanwhile in April 2010, the US Congress voted to develop a self-determination election in Puerto Rico. It will be held 12.August of this year.
Finally, the British do hold other island territories around the world, often with coastlines adjacent to independent nations. Examples include: the Bermudas (closer to the US, than the UK), British Virgin Islands, Anguilla, Montserrat, Cayman, Turks & Caicos, Pitcairn, St Helena, Akrotiri, Dekehlia, etc.
I'm not sure proximity is justification for a land claim, based on international law's recognition of various islands' governance, often despite other proximate nations.
I'm still curious (and no one has answered as of yet) why Argentina never bothered to invade the Malvinas / Falklands between 1810 independence and the 1982 fiasco. That's over 170 years of intertia.
92, u don´t want to understand the real facts that u have now.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you, all you Argentines for your so kind offers about being colonised, err subjugated, err exploited, err taken over, err conquered, oh thats right, INVITED to join you.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0But no thanks, we are happy the way we are.
We don't want you, you want us(not us, our land!).
You want our oil & you want our fish.
You just want what is NOT YOURS. lt's ours.
So we must decline. Please go away & annoy someone else.
Fascist warmongering Argentinian irredentism has no place in the 21st century and should be condemned by peaceloving people throughout the world.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@68 Well done! With the exception of the word “ISLANDERS”, you have given a perfect description of the Spanish, Italian and Portuguese colonisation of South America. Including the “ETHNIC CLEANSING”.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do Argentines keep telling us Falkland Islanders to go home? We are home.....the Falklands is our home. We are the people of the Falklands. Once again more absurdity from the Argentines!
Jan 05th, 2012 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0NO, ENGLAND!
Jan 05th, 2012 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@98
Jan 05th, 2012 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You daft racist , can they take the Argies back to spain or italy with them
58 Crackpot
Jan 05th, 2012 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You rush forward or ahead of time. When it comes to the “16 Territories” means generally is contemplated self-determination. Not want them. In the specific case and the analysis one by one case, the term that refers to the distinction between desires and interests, a particular case, the Falklands conflict. REFERRED TO INTEREST. Not want them. Each year the decolonization committee to specifically address the conflict issues a reference to resolution 2065 (XX) of 1965, ratified by later resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37 / 9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 (39 / 6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute and the application of the principle of territorial integrity by referring to the interest. NOT the wishes of the population of the islands.
What has the committee visiting Argentina has to do with anything. It's probably just wanted to see if CFK was real. Now you know what a psychopath is.
Why escape or evade the issue? Why insult and disqualify? It is very important because it is more concrete evidence that treating decolonization committee the Falklands conflict is governed by resolution 2065. The islanders NO THIRD PARTIES. Are British.
The fact is that President Keith St. Aimee C24 Donato visited Argentina, but the islanders. The president of the Decolonization Committee of the Falklands last year, arrived in Argentina, but not the islands. The fact that the dispute is about the principle of territorial integrity. No. Self-determination. So the conflict is between Argentina and England. The islanders are NOT third parties. No self-determination. Its government resides in London.
60 Monty69
What a disappointment for you
Why always teases or belittles or change the opinion of others? It is no disappointment. His problem is that it assumes things that are not affirmed.
You have too many prejudices.
99, excusse me, I am not racist, the unique racist is your real country (UK). Another thing, Argentine has immigration from Russia, Germany, Holland (the Princess of N. is an argentinian), Belgium, Ireland (the father of our army was irish), France, China, India, Paraguay , Uruguay, Chile Brasil, Ecuador, Cuba, etc. We loves another cultures! The composition of indigenous people and his culture is protect by Argentina for last 30 years. It is the best in Latin America. If you study about indigenous people in Australia, u find that a terrible genocide for more than 200 years that was finished during 1960´s. Looking for by internet Kathy Freeman family ´s history.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0100 Raul
Jan 05th, 2012 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're right, I am belittling your opinion.
You have been provided with clear evidence in the form of a press release from the UN the the UN does not treat Falkland Islanders differently in the matter of self determination, and you choose to ignore it because it doesn't fit with your views.
You are still saying 'No self determination', which is contemptible.
It's your opinion and is not backed up by facts.
You are completely entitled to your opinion, but I am entitled to defend myself when your opinion is harmful to me and factually false.
@100: Raul.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The whole concept of territorial integrity is totally bogus, especially in the case of the Falkland Islands.
There is a legal principle of self-determination that applies to ALL people. There is absolutely no such principle for territorial integrity. There is nothing in the UN charter that refers to absolute “territorial integrity”, (ie, preservation of the territory of a state intact). The principle is even weaker in the case of the Falkland Islands, because they never formed part of Argentina, in spite of a few half-hearted attempts at administration 200 years ago. Argentina is never going to win in a dispute based on territorial integrity, and I challenge you to find one example of a nation that has won such a dispute based on that principle.
I refer you to this interesting article regarding the case of Nagorno-Karabakh:
http://www.keghart.com/sites/default/files/PDF/SDTI_Eng.pdf
Lets have another daily summary of the Argentinian point of view:
Jan 05th, 2012 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0QUOTE “The ISLANDERS as you call them dont matter a whit in SOUTH AMERICA.
WHY
Because an illegal force entered the South Atlantic and indulged in its usual trick of ETHNIC CLEANSING.
And then they do what COLONIALISTS do they send in the PLANTERS THE SCUM WHO MOVE IN WHEN THE LOCALS ARE MURDERED OR MOVED OUT”.
This pretty much sums up what the Argentinians plan to do, in this case the cleansing force will be Argentine.
Followed by QUOTE “We have no intention of colonizing, which is why we invite you to return to their country of origin where they are sure to be welcome. Argies do not want to be if they so desire. Our interest is geographical and just want to recoup some of our territory. As an occasional population of these islands have all the freedom to choose to live here and now, with autonomy but under Argentina's sovereignty or go populate a neighborhood in Bristol and continued possession of the prestigious British citizenship”
No wonder the Falklanders on these Forums are so outspoken! I fully support you guys, no matter what those people throw at you.
I am disgusted by the racist, fascist ideals of the Argentinian people.
If we made comments like that in the UK about another country, we'd probably get arrested, or ostracised by polite society
There can be no negotiation or compromise with this kind of person.
Another thing, Argentine has immigration from Russia, Germany, Holland (the Princess of N. is an argentinian), Belgium, Ireland (the father of our army was irish), France, China, India, Paraguay , Uruguay, Chile Brasil, Ecuador, Cuba, etc. We loves another cultures! The composition of indigenous people and his culture is protect by Argentina for last 30 years. It is the best in Latin
Jan 05th, 2012 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What happend to the black people?
Heavy casualties caused by the constant civil wars and foreign wars: Blacks formed a disproportionate part of the Argentine army in the long and bloody War of Paraguay (1865–1870), in which the loss of lives on both sides were high. The official historiography maintains that this resulted in the disappearance of the black population, while the genocide claims contend that the disproportionate recruitment was intentional
No wonder these Britt Falklanders are so envious of Argentina's
Jan 05th, 2012 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0economic growth and boom all they do is whinge and whine like a bunch of old farts, it must be terrible being tossed around by the Argentines and being under control by Brittain
@106: “...it must be terrible being tossed around by the Argentines...”
Jan 05th, 2012 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You said it all....bunch of tossers.
@ 104 shb
Jan 05th, 2012 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I see you mention my opinion, if I said but should not be taken out of context, one black and I never instigate ethnic cleansing, it is fair that highlights my view in full and not partial. If you read my first review in this article really made to nominate the island part of Argentina as an autonomous province, with its own government and where they could negotiate that no Argentine continental even live in their city and that those islanders who do not wish to be Argentina may continue to be British, we can take care of the expenses necessary to have a life according to your income in the same islands, England or any other country on earth.
1 BJK---- Dear BJK, Let me please point out to you that the people that live on the Falkland Islands are not Argentine and never have been. I would also point out to you that seeing that the people that were born on the Falkland Islands are British it stands to reason that all people that live in Argentina are British and as such must come under the jurisdiction of the Falkland Island Government as Argentina did not exist until after the Falkland’s had been populated by British persons.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please be aware that on Monday 9th January Her Majesty’s Government will be sending over a delegation from the Falklands Islands to take over all positions in the now defunct Government on the mainland of New Britain the name that we have decided to call Argentina. You and all citizens of New Britain will comply with all new laws.
I am afraid that your Government have brought all this about with its silly insinuations that the Falklands belong to the now defunct Argentina. We were content to let our brothers and sisters who lived on the mainland 500 odd miles away from the Islands to govern themselves however, constant Governments over the years have proved to one and all throughout the World that they have no idea of history and certainly no idea how to run a country.
Her Majesty’s Government can no longer stand by and watch what is happening down in South Atlantic. Her Majesty's Government has given ample opportunity for the all her citizens to come into the fold but repeated childish posturing from successive Governments have proved that they can’t be trusted to run a piss up in a brewery.
Yours truly David Cameron Prime Minister of all that is wise and good in the world.
103 Crackpot
Jan 05th, 2012 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina will never win in a dispute on the basis of territorial integrity, and I challenge you to find an example of a nation that has won a dispute on the basis of this principle.
Dear Mad:
I read your link, very interesting but you're totally wrong. The concepts, the historical and social processes are completely different. But the case of Nagorno-Karabakh as well as Kosovo, are obviously different, but have some similarities. The specificity of the Malvinas question is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity of Argentina.
Is ruled out then the possibility of applying the principle of self determination, as its exercise by the Islanders would cause the “breach of national unity and territorial integrity” of Argentina.
Argentina and won with Resolution 2065 which enshrines the principle of territorial integrity. Why do you think there is resolution 2065 (XX) of 1965?, Later confirmed by other resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37 / 9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 ( 39 / 6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute and therefore reaffirms the principle of territorial integrity.
To all who think differently, compared to historical facts, are going to challenge him? Do not worry, we're not afraid of threats against Britain. Are we attacked with atomic bombs to reclaim what is ours? Are we threatened with genocide, humanitarian bombing of civilians and terrorism as the one carried out in Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq? Are they afraid of world public opinion? Argentina already had four English invasion and (1806-1807-1833 - Forced Return of 20/11/1845. That is the political and social process that must be judged in the Falklands conflict. The context of English imperialism and colonialism.
Read carefully the UN Resolution 2065 and you will notice.
To all the Argie Bloggers, esp O gaga and the Fabled Pratt-Junta.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some days I get a little sad, my wife is not too well and that tends to get me down.
But I have to thank you all! Whenever I read the febrile posts by you lot, and all the bleating, and the crying and all the other juvenile things as well as the downright lies I just cannot help myself.
I JUST LAUGH MY COBBLERS OFF and then I feel much better!
Resolution 2065 (XX)
Jan 05th, 2012 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The General Assembly, Having considered the question of the Malvinas Islands (Falkland Islands), Taking into account the chapters of the reports of the Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples concerning the Malvinas (Falkland Islands) and in particular the conclusions and recom ¬ mendations adopted by it relating to that Terri ¬ tory, whereas its resolution 1514 (XV) of December 14, 1960, was inspired by the desired purpose of putting an end to colonialism everywhere and in all its forms, one of which fits the case of the Malvinas Islands (Falkland Islands).
(THE FOLLOWING IS FUNDAMENTAL)
Noting the existence of a dispute between the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland concerning sovereignty over these islands. (Recognizing the principle of territorial integrity over self-determination by the existence of a conflict is of sovereignty).
1. Invites the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to proceed without delay with the negotiations recommended by the Special Committee to examine the situation ¬ tion with respect to the implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples to find a peaceful solution to the problem, taking due account of the provi ¬ tions and objectives of the United Nations Charter ¬ das and resolution 1514 (XV) of the General Assembly and the interests of the people of the Falkland Islands (Falkland Islands);
2. Calls on both Governments to inform the Special Committee and the General Assembly at the twenty-first session on the outcome of the negotia ¬ tions.
1398th. plenary session, December 16, 1965.
Do not be afraid to debate and negotiation to resolve conflicts.
With this way of challenging people, defending colonialism and imperialism, you will not ever win
Thank you
@110 Raul: “The specificity of the Malvinas question is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity of Argentina.”
Jan 05th, 2012 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is for Argentina to prove and so far they haven't managed to do that.
“Resolution 2065 which enshrines the principle of territorial integrity.”
As far as I can see, it says nothing of the sort. All it does is note that a sovereignty dispute exists. There is absolutely no reference to territorial integrity. Please direct me to the relevent wording. Here is the link to the Resolution 2065 text on the UN website:
http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/218/28/IMG/NR021828.pdf?OpenElement
103, never u could compare NAGORNO - KARABABAJ. Because, u stay in island that it is near just to Argentina. Nagorno - K . has 23 ethnical countries, tribus, etc near of this territories for centuries. For this kind o f reason, u never have the reason to stay in Falklands.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the last 50 years, UK though to give the Malvinas in 1960´s (same to Hong Kong), when Argentina had good economy. However many problems in Argentina attented for this situation and the fact that Argentina doesn´t have militar power (as China) . In 1975 UK found (due to geoligical structures) that the oil from Falklands could be important and it was explored finding good basins. This secret information was working until 1981 (because it would dispute problem with Argentina if it was openned). After that, Uk decided that the oil of Falklands can be explored.... war 1982 ..... 2012 .....
112 raul2
Jan 05th, 2012 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's it Raul, you've bored me into submission.
I agree with everything you say.
It seems that this discussion is absurd. As I see the issue we have two extremes here:
Jan 05th, 2012 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) Argentina would have sovereignty over the islands.
2) The Malvinas want to become an independent state.
Consider the two conflicting positions. Argentina to support their position does not require external support, will maintain its position even if the whole world is against them. The islanders may impose their desire to be a sovereign country by their own forces? The answer is NO. The future of the islanders themselves, but depends on the mood of the British taxpayer.
That likely is it that Argentina maintained its claim to sovereignty over the islands?
Answer: 100%
That likely is that the Islands become an independent state?
Answer: 50%
Your future is in your hands.
@113 Cockroach
Jan 05th, 2012 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“That is for Argentina to prove and so far they haven't managed to do that.”
(?) Then the world is claiming the UK to sit and talk, based on what? Take your head out of the ground, ostrich.
“There is absolutely no reference to territorial integrity.”
The UN is saying: UK go and talk with Argentina to solve this.
It´s not saying the question should be resolved following the principle of self determination. Therefore, it´s giving predominance to territorial intigrity. It´s obvious. Otherwise it would be saying: UK and Arg you have nothing to talk. It´s tjhe islanders who have the last word. That´s not the case. It´s all about UK and Argentina.
You are UK. Full Stop (that´s a language you understand, don´t you?)
113 Crackpot
Jan 05th, 2012 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The daccess links of the UN website don't work as copied links. You have to put the link of the page where that link is and give a reference so people can find it on the page and click on it
@114 Kipper
Jan 05th, 2012 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not comparing the Falkland Islands with Nagorno-Karabakh. However, Nagorno-Karabakh does provide an example where any argument for territorial integrity would appear to be at it's strongest, as it is completely surrounded by Azerbaijan. Nevetheless, even in this situation commentators consider the case for territorial integrity to be weak compared with self-determination.
The case for territorial integrity is virtually non-existant for the Falkland Islands, because they are way outside the territorial waters of Argentina.
Gente, the world is reacting against to UK. China, Russia, France, Spain, Ireland, USA, Brasil, Chile, Venezuela, México, Japan, Korea, etc. CALL TO UK DISCUSS OF FALKLANDS / MALVINAS......UK has any reason. Doesn´t have? It is so stupid for UK (ANTIDIPLOMATIC)
Jan 05th, 2012 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://mais.uol.com.br/view/99at89ajv6h1/lula-pede-que-onu-reabra-a-questao-das-malvinas-04021A356CC0815326?types=A
A very Good and heart felt piece from a Falkland Islander! and He does make a good point about how argentina would DESTROY the Islands that they claim to love so much!!!!
Jan 05th, 2012 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Long Live the Falklands.
@112 Raul2 ”...(Recognizing the principle of territorial integrity over self-determination by the existence of a conflict is of sovereignty)....“
Jan 05th, 2012 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So, it says that does it? No it doesn't. You have inserted that text yourself and you are a total charlatan. There is NO REFERENCE WHATSOEVER to the issue of territorial intergrity. The text you added is purely a figment of your fanciful imagination. What a loser!
For those of you who want to check, here is the UN web page with the link to resolution 2065:
http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/20/ares20.htm
@116: Xavi ”That likely is it that Argentina maintained its claim to sovereignty over the islands? Answer: 100%. That likely is that the Islands become an independent state? Answer: 50%”
In all likelihood, this is a correct assessment. 100% that Argentina will continue to make a claim. 50% that the FI will become independent. However, you neglected to also provide the only other possible outcome: 50% that the Islands remain under UK adminstration. That means 0% liklelihood that the Islands ever pass under Argentine adminstration.
@ 122 Crackpot
Jan 05th, 2012 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your assessment is correct, there is a 50% chance that the islands remain under British administration, only this variable out of their hands and depends on the mood and English, however our desire to reclaim the islands is not subject to any other nation, ours is 100%.
122, EXCUSSE ME, U ARE IN ARGENTINIAN WATERS, THEY ARE NOT INTERNATIONAL WATERS, HOW DON´T U KNOW THAT? COME on, UK, so moron people and robbers.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0EX - PRESIDENT FROM BRAZIL SAID:
mais.uol.com.br/view/99at89ajv6h1/lula-pede-que-onu-reabra-a-questao-das-malvinas-04021A356CC0815326?types=A
@108 Xavierv
Jan 05th, 2012 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your bottom line is still “live as an Argentine citizen or we send you back to England”. That is the ugly truth of what you want. If you don't like the label “ethnic cleansing” thats tough, because thats just what the kind of policy you advocate would lead to.
The so heart felt complaint about my quote back is just an attempt to make you feel a bit better about yourself.
You'll never win the Falklanders over or get us to acquiese to your demands by staring off by telling us “we'll only kick out those who are'nt happy here”.
How would you like it if we started threatening to annex your home, then tell you “it's OK, if you don't like it we'll pay for you to go and live wherever your original immigrant stock came from” because that is exactly what you're saying?
Kipling
Conjuring up the spectre of war against us will get you even less traction what Xaviev is suggesting. If you really want to go down that road, be careful for what you wish for, because you might just get it. Be prepared for a long, grinding conflict. I bet you don't have any friends or family in your military. If you did you would'nt be so keen to see them coming back in a body bag.
You claim not to be a racist, but many of your posts contain insults, threats and slurs. In fact many of them get deleted.
I don't care (neither does the vast majority of the UK) about how many allies you have or think you have. I certainly would never give anything to the likes of you or negotiate with them, and anyone who allies themselves with you is'nt worth talking to either.
NO SURRENDER
@122 Xavi: “Your assessment is correct,....”
Jan 05th, 2012 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice to see that you have accepted that there is 0% chance that the islands will ever be under Argentinian administration. A 100% desire to reclaim the islands is all you will ever have.
@124 Kipper “EXCUSSE ME, U ARE IN ARGENTINIAN WATERS, THEY ARE NOT INTERNATIONAL WATERS,...”
They are not Argentine nor international waters. Everything up to 12 miles from the coast of the Falkland Islands are UK/FI territorial waters. How come you don't know that?
PLEASE, said to me any PRESIDENT all aroud the world that acept the FALKLANDs AS FROM UK, please?. Who are allies now?
Jan 05th, 2012 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you want a partial list - France, Turkey and most of the commonwealth and EU backs us up.
Jan 05th, 2012 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0From your point of view the USA is at best neutral and certaninly would'nt support a second Argentine invasion or force us to give in to you......
Anyway, even if we were alone, we would still oppose you, and refuse to submit to threats, blackmail, blockade or any other kind of coersion.
116 XAVIERV
Jan 05th, 2012 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No. The Falklands would not need its own forces. Small countries do not need standing armies to defend themselves.
And no, the whole world would not be against us. If the UN accepted us as an independent nation, and they would, there is absolutely no way that the rest of the world would condone any act of agression against us.
And besides, I think you'll find that your country rejects the use of force.
128, EXCUSSE ME, please, where did anybody say that? Nobody said that the FALKLANDS are from UK,
Jan 05th, 2012 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0USA look at this, kakakakaka
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100043042/hillary-clinton-slaps-britain-in-the-face-again-over-the-falklands/
Talk, talk, talk. . . . Compromise usually = defeat. . . .
Jan 06th, 2012 - 01:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0@130 Kipling
Jan 06th, 2012 - 06:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Go look it up under numerous sources labelled “falkland islands sovereignty dispute”..........................
@Raul2(hope there's not two of you),
Jan 06th, 2012 - 07:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0“lnvites etc etc,” INVITES, Does not command.
No thank you, we decline the invitation.
“negotiations recommended”-RECOMMENDED, NOT ORDERED.
Again, no thank you.
lf you like UN Resolutions so much, how come Argentina ignored the UN Resolution to get out of the Falklands in 1982. Hypocrites All.
You malvinistas disgust me. Liars, would be thieves,unintelligent poltroons.
132, I just need one, don´t worry, u don´t have.....kakakakaka
Jan 06th, 2012 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0@134 Kipling.
Jan 06th, 2012 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, there's the whole of the EU for a start. Haven't you heard of the Lisbon Treaty?
134, yes of course, but I just need ONE PRESIDENT all around the world that said the Falklands are british. Obviusly not from UK.
Jan 06th, 2012 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lula said: .. why FUCKING UK stay in Malvinas until now? and said Why UK is in the security council of UN and why a country with this kind of geopolitic strategy is in the security council of UN. And more, we need to fight into the UN to change this question.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA73POY0qok
@136
Jan 06th, 2012 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Lisbon Treaty was signed by the leaders of all member countries of the EU and the Falkland Islands (there is no use of the term Malvinas or mention of any dispute) are mentioned specifically as an overseas territory of the UK.
So, there you go - a whole bunch of (non-UK) Presidents/Prime Ministers for you.
PLEASE, WHERE DOES ANY PRIME MINISTER (OR PRESIDENTS, KINGS, PRICESS, KALIFAS, SHEIKS, ZULUS, Mão Santa e Pãe Umbanda) SAY THAT FALKLANDS ARE BRITISH? WHERE?
Jan 06th, 2012 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Lisbon Treaty gonna to chenage, what else?
@100 You brain-dead fool. I am going to tell you this one last time. See whether you can get it through those lumps of lard you keep between your ears. You like to quote ”resolution 2065 (XX) of 1965?, Later confirmed by other resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37 / 9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 ( 39 / 6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25).” Let me shout it at you. GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTIONS ARE NOT BINDING! Have you got that now? They are meaningless UNLESS the UK CHOOSES to take note of them. Do not EVER mention them again. They are irrelevant, pointless and of no account.
Jan 06th, 2012 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@124 Another brain-dead fool. Where are these Argentinean waters. The UN recognises certain distance limits for country to exercise authority over waters. The largest distance is 200 miles. Figure that one out, stupid!
139, u have 02 kinds o determination that the water is of 01 country yo another, u showed just 200 miles, but another is deep of water (IT ´S PART OF ARGENTINA PLATEAU), in this case Argentina wins. For this reason, U never have ANY reason to give THE FaLKLANDS.
Jan 06th, 2012 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was born in Argentina but I hate the country and I hate the people, I am an Anglo-Argentine but I prefer to call myself British.
Jan 06th, 2012 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentines are like little children, show them something nice and shiny... like a flag and their eyes water and they dream of children being thrown out of helicopters into the Atlantic Ocean and they dream of the same government that killed their children invading another country and they love their servitude and everyone who stamps on their little heads.
As long as their oppressors are American, or Argentines of European heritage they don't care. This is all these people know. They get very hot headed, like adolescent children deprived of a toy, they need their parent the government to tell them what to think.
They are not old enough to determine right from wrong themselves and in the presence of a bad parent, like Kirchner, who abuses her little kiddies like a pedophile would, they know no better!
#141 UKOwnsArgentina: I think your comments are a bit harsh, but then again I never suffered under the military junta or the financial mismanagement of the country.
Jan 06th, 2012 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When I visited I found welcoming, warm people who were thrilled to meet an American who was interested in improving her Spanish - especially in the countryside. Most people are deeply suspicious of their government, and mistrust all institutions. Parts of the country have recovered from the fiscal meltdown 10 years ago, but many people lost everything and do not recover. Not everyone in Argentina thinks the Falklands/Malvinas are important to Argentina - particularly the younger generation. They'd much rather see the government focus on expanding opportunity and stabilizing the currency.
I am baffled by the deliberately inflationary policies of the government. I know it helps sell soy abroad, and devalues the remaining debt. But wages do not keep up with real inflation (not the fictional numbers reported in the government).
The sad thing is, that Argentina is the South American version of Canada - in resources, physical beauty, and ethnic mixing. If it had a clean government and a long history of democracy - the Falklanders would probably vote to join. Think about it, if the Falklands were 500 miles off the coast of Canada, they might choose it out of geographic convenience and access to Canadian government services.
There are islands off the coasts of Canada: Greenland, the San Juans, etc all belong to other countries.
But if I had to choose between UK administration from London, or Argentine administration from BsAs, I would vote UK too.
@ Jayne Birkin
Jan 06th, 2012 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Newfoundland has never got over being forced to join Canada. It was a great mistake. Canada's become a totally different land than it used to be, with open borders, cheap labour and insane libralism, it suffers from a lot of what the UK went through under Blair.
But at least we still have the Queen.
@ 140 Kipling - text speak, capitalisation and the literacy of a 3 year old - obviously a typical Argentine raving mad patriot loon.
Jan 06th, 2012 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Come on People!
Jan 06th, 2012 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/06/jamaica-republic-prime-minister
Kipling
Jan 06th, 2012 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0KIPPER you have been Smoked
Cooked and Eaten.
.
Kipling
Jan 07th, 2012 - 01:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0All the Brits here have told you ad nauseum that we have plenty of support from the governments of the EU, Commonwealth and Turkey. That adds up to 2 of the top 6 economic powers apart from us (Germany and France)
The USA won't support you in a crises(unless they want to look untrustworthy, by abandoning a close ally). They would be forced to choose between us and you and they owe us for helmand. Besides if the situation in the straits of Hormuz goes bad - who are they going to want some support from
A) Argentina - a state that sides with their enemies (like chavez , who is pro Iran) and that uses its military to menace the free trade and shipping of the aforementioned ally
or
B) the UK which has a navy that actually operates a lot in the persian gulf, alongside the USN, particularly as they might to use our minesweepers there soon....
I think you'll find realpolitik will win out, no matter what Ms clinton thinks.
The EU won''t back you. Spain wants a lot of cash because it's broke. We can use that stick to beat them if they try to support you.
All you can really do is bleat about how a bunch of 2nd and 3rd rank nations back you (like we care about what Chavez, a rather incompetent dictator, has to say) when it suits them to do so and it's not going to really cause them ant problems.
What can you really do to change the status quo?
Get China to deliver some muscle? - they want to trade with us, besides they only support you because of their “one china” policy - to justify grabbing taiwan if they think they could get away with it. Besides the PRC occupies tibet, so would you really like to be indebted to a country that indulges in proper mass oppression and makes even your old junta look, well, really like they were'nt trying to kill enough dissenters.
As for the discredited continental shelf argument, well we could use that to claim Argentina (its' joined by that shelf to UK territory).
Previous argentine posters did'nt like that....
u don´t have anything, just your fucking blef
Jan 07th, 2012 - 02:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0where is this? i don ´t want your lies, just where ... u should have the example like this:
Brazil (and now, USA is supporting Argentina, what else?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA73POY0qok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA73POY0qok
@ 148 Kipling (#)
Jan 07th, 2012 - 02:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0lol it's like watching a bunch of retards on hormone therapy! This is all you have Kipper, retards and loons, children playing in an adult world.
GROW UP!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15093744
Jan 07th, 2012 - 02:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oil price is up :-)
Jan 07th, 2012 - 02:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/01/07/south-atlantic-oil-rockhopper-rising/
che, dekerusalamerluza, uelgadhambr, japa
Jan 07th, 2012 - 02:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0If/when the international crisis deepens, and its effects show on China, oil prices will go down.
Jan 07th, 2012 - 03:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0After just a very short observation(l didn't need an in-depth one),
Jan 07th, 2012 - 04:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0l have realised that, you, Kipling are a blithering idiot.
You just go away & quietly shoot yourself.
ForgeTit - either way, there's money to be made :-)
Jan 07th, 2012 - 08:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0I see you've started to swear again Kipling.
Jan 07th, 2012 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thats a sign that you know that you're losing the argument.
I don't care how much you insult me, in fact I am glad you get wound up enough to lose your cool. It shows you can't actually present any kind of logical rebuttal to my observations, because you know that they are accurate.
Just outline for me, if you will, just how china will help you seize the islands.
Follow this up with a description of how the USA will abandon the UK (one of it's closest allies). Don't quote Ms clinton (she made most of the USA feel really embarassed by her stupid comments) then explain how you're going to help the USN in the gulf when we tell the yanks to get lost and withdraw our ships to deter more unprovoked Argentinian aggression. Or how you're going to explain to the yanks what's in it for them to get the UK angry enough to just pull our troops from helmand, because we need to redeploy them to the Falklands again. They would really be pleased to see us give them the old two fingered salute then tell them “your on your own now mate, find another 10000 troops for this area”.
It's not going to happen, is it.......
Any US president that makes that much of a mess over foreign policy so late in his term is finished.
Give some real arguments, and some facts.
Don't just rant and swear (you'll make me laugh), I assume of course that you can do that, although based on past observations I am not very hopeful.
I just love the paintings of Molina Campos (1891 - 1959).
Jan 07th, 2012 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0The picture in this article is typical.
His humerous gauchesco paintings give so much insight into the Argentina of the past, the hard-grafting rural innocence with the eye for the main chance, the girl and the siesta.
What happened to Argentina?
How did its European immigrants manage to corrupt its personality so differently to that which happened - by people of the same European stock - in Canada and the USA?
Surely it can't be the differences between the South Europeans and the North Europeans? Culture or genes?
As an continental European Argentine’s historical, legal and moral claims on the Falklands, South-Georgia and the South-Sandwich Islands seem to be baseless (as I do not want to offend the Argentine people I do not use the word ludicrous :-))
Jan 07th, 2012 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But given the mood of the Argentine people and it’s political leaders a new war will be inevitable in the decades to come. The Brits undoubtedly have the upper hand at the moment but I’m not sure this will remain the case in the future…
Nevertheless I see a great opportunity to turn this stalemate into a real win-win-win situation if both countries and the Falklanders can cooperate.
Is it totally unimaginable:
- to officially rename the Falklands to Falklands/Malvinas and have some kind of joint face saving Argentine-British “custody” with de facto independence for the islanders?
- to have joint custody over the other uninhabited islands in the area?
- to split the revenues of the potential resources from the continental shelf?
- and finally, to form a Chilean-Argentine-British-alliance to develop the economic potential from Antarctica in an environmentally sound way before the really big boys take the initiative?
158 Wim
Jan 07th, 2012 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh dear!
I think I will just caution you to get your crash helmet on :o)
I think Argentina needs to recognize that the islanders are British and have British culture on the other hand the islanders need to understand that they are part of South America and not pretend they are in the UK. Recognize the Islands as independent and integrate them into Mercosur.
Jan 07th, 2012 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wasn't this the case with Belize?
@158 Are you out of your f***ing mind? The moment that Britain or the Falklands let Argentina get to the point where it even begins to think that it might have the “right” to do as much as drop its dandruff on the Islands, they will be crowing to the world that they “won” and beat the British. I'm not sure what you mean about “uninhabited” islands. What reason is there to let an argie within 200 miles of British territory? Split the revenue? It's that mind of yours again. There was an agreement in 1995 setting out terms for exploitation of offshore resources. In 2007, Argentina unilaterally withdrew. Indisputably because they thought they could push their sovereignty claim and get it all. Tough titty on that. The decision, of course, belongs to the Islanders but, in their place, I wouldn't give Argentina a wet fart.
Jan 07th, 2012 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And finally, there might be room for a Anglo-Chilean alliance in respect of Antarctica. As for Argentina? When they withdraw the dishonest claim they made 35 years after Britain's claim and 2 years after Chile's claim, they might get to claim the little slice in between.
Do you still not understand? Aregentines, and their “country”, are greedy, grasping, cheating, mendacious toe-rags. They are not to be trusted in any way, shape or form. And that explains why ChrisR suggested you get your crash helmet on!
@160 Since when are the Islands part of South America? There is actually evidence to suggest that they are a small, fragmented land mass broken off from Africa. The Islanders don't say they are in the UK. They say they are in their home territory that is a British Overseas Territory. Integrate them into Mercosur? An organisation that has exactly 4 members? Are you off your looney trolley? So that Argentina could pick them off and tell the rest of the world that it's an “internal” matter? What's your point about Belize? It isn't even in South America. And Britain has to maintain a “training” presence to dissuade Guetemala. Try to get a grip!
161 Conqueror
Jan 07th, 2012 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, they just don't get it do they? Just like the Argies - somebody with little or no knowledge, no wish to find out for themselves what the facts are, 'decide' it would be a good idea.
No doubt both are well intentioned but somewhat naive. You are absolute right though: even letting the Argies think they are going anywhere near a negotiating table and that would be victory for them.
@161, @162
Jan 07th, 2012 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In that case I sincerely hope Rockhopper finds enough oil around the Falklands to pay for the defense of the islands in the centuries to come…
]kiplin, the new leader of the argie bloggers, [now thinks retired to isolationist
Jan 07th, 2012 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Allow us to enlighten you,
[How to back up your friends, allies ]
Listen to the British,
[if you attempt to close the straits, we will back it up with military force]
And the same to Belize, and afghans,]
Listen to the argies, we will,,we will talk and talk, and threaten and threaten again,
We will throw insults we will throw abuse, cry like a child,
But WE wont use force, [see the difference]
Just as the Americans have military in the UK we have military units in the US training,
After all, would the Argies, and or brazil offer to stand toe to toe with the Americans with the Iranian problem, NO,
Their you go, while we back it up,
The Argies just talk, talk and more talk .
Never has the world owed so little , to such big talk .
@161 conqueror The islands are in South America in all geography books I looked up “The Falkland Islands are located in the South Atlantic Ocean on a projection of the Patagonian continental shelf”
Jan 07th, 2012 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can put a Texan flag on my window and even wear my cowboy boots but I still live in the hills of Kentucky!
@158Wim,
Jan 07th, 2012 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How would you like it if l gave half of your house to one of your neighbours who has a ridiculous “claim” on it?
They have no “rights” here despite all the lies they sprout.
And thats what they'll get, NOTHING.
But l like your use of the word “ludicrous”!♥
@165Livingthedream,
Haven't your heard of Tectonic Plates & Continental Drift?
Kentucky, that's where you try to make whisky, isn't it? :-)
Hint:- REAL Whisky comes from Scotland.
Glad you've got a sense of humour! Thats a joke at Kentucky's expense!♥
@166 Isolde Maybe I should send you a bottle of our Kentucky bourbon. ;-)
Jan 07th, 2012 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hi Isolde and living the dream.
Jan 07th, 2012 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As an impartial whiskey lover I have to say I love both bourbon (especially JD) and all the malts that our lovely neighbours up north make! I would also recommend a rather recent addition to the market - an English whiskey from the imaginitively named “English whiskey company” (very smooth).
Hands across the sea (both down south hand to the west)!
To business: @ 158.
I think you're on to a loser here. There is no way on earth that we're going to give any ground to those people.
Imagine that you're country was being bombarded with threats to cede an area containing several thousand of your citizens, after a brutal invasiona nd occupation had been repulsed. Then imagine that the other side of the debate would like to strip out the cultural hertitage of the people you were abondoning. Follow this up with deportation of any people who objected.
Thje Argetinians do not recognise the right of the Falklanders to exist. They are constantly referred to as usurpers, interlopers or worse. This is a facsist ideology, and we had too much of that in europe in the 30s and 40s. I thought we had learned that lesson.
The other lesson we should take from european history is that aggressors need to be opposed before they can consolidate themselves into a postion wherby they can carry out their aggression.
We will not abandon the falklanders to occupation.
“Since when are the Islands part of South America? There is actually evidence to suggest that they are a small, fragmented land mass broken off from Africa.”
Jan 07th, 2012 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's not just the FI, the whole South America has once formed a single land mass with Africa.
Science historicle education for the technical argumentative of Argentina.
Jan 07th, 2012 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In fact, the Falklands are part of the British Isles,
In fact Argentina is part of Africa who in turn is part of Europe, who in turn is part of the British isle,
In fact all the bloody land on the planet was once just one great big land mass,
[Argentina] just how far back do you wish to go in part ion of your claim,
Do you not understand the 21st century ethics?
There is the British Isles,
There is Argentina
There is the Falkland Islands,
They wish, to be British,
You demand they are ruled by you,
We, will defend their decision,
[What say you islanders?]
[We wish to be British, and left alone to run our own affairs]]
Did you understand that,// do you understand that,// will you understand that?
Or is it going to take a violent act, to MAKE you understand that.
Full stop.
(158) Wim
Jan 08th, 2012 - 12:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0As an Argentinean of Northern European origin and with some experience in life, Argentina’s historical, legal and moral claims on the Falklands, South-Georgia and the South-Sandwich Islands seem to be well-founded. (As I do not want to offend the British people I do not use the word faultless :-))
The mood of the Argentinean People and its political leaders makes a new war impossible today, tomorrow and in the years and decades to come. The Brits had the upper hand until recently but that has changed dramatically in the last couple of years.
For us it is totally imaginable to:
1) Prevail on the “Malvinas Issue” through the economic political and diplomatic fronts.
2) Negotiate an unhurried, easygoing and orderly British withdrawal from the South Atlantic.
3) Shape a South American-alliance to develop the economic potential of Antarctica in an environmentally sound way before the really big boys take the initiative.
PS:
Of course, things could develop differently if those Colonial Squatting Pirating Brits ;-) found a lot of oil in Malvinas.
But, luckily, it doesn’t look that way……………
Respectfully.
El Think.
Chubut, Argentina.
A very clever thought
Jan 08th, 2012 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0But as is likely, that none of us is every likely to be around to see it,
It would be unnatural, to elevate you of your dreams ,
This way we can all go to the next world, believing,, and, in the belief that we succeeded in what we each wanted,
In the meantime, please allow the islanders to be British and not argentine,
for at least the next 50 years .and beyond .
[Depending on your age of course ]
.
@168 shb Thanks for the tip May I recommend Knob Creek a great ky bourbon
Jan 08th, 2012 - 12:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.knobcreek.com/lpa
Hope hope you can get it across the pond
Dear John Fowler:
Jan 08th, 2012 - 01:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you feel this way, it is because their ancestors were put on this situation. Usurping territory of Argentina Nation.
You do not like Argentina. You can go 6 months remaining in Europe.
You do not want to be an Argentine citizen. All right. Keep your nationality. Nobody forces the change.
God knows we hear enough about self-determination. That's all you have for retain the islands?. But you know something? The truth will triumph.
@171 Think.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Think again......
Rockhopper is looking increasingly confident about the propspects for oil around the falklands.
your 1st pont: You can't prevail diplomatically because you can offer nothing to the islanders to offset the years of abuse and harrassment you've heaped on them. You have effectively driven them even further away from you than they were before the invasion. You have nothing to offer the UK govt to make a handover worthwhile other than “we'll stop causing trouble” either.
Your 2nd point: Does that include the islanders? Anyway, we are'nt going anywhere, particularly if the aforemnentioned oil is confirmed. I don't see you evicting us by force either.
As to your 3rd point: There is no way we are going to give you a free run at Antartica. The place is still protecede by treaty. If it becomes open to development we want a piece of the pie. Guess where we would use as a staging post.....
@173 livingtedream: I have tried it, and liked it, but you don't see as much of it over here as JD. Thanks for the recommendation though.
@171Think,
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0ln your dreams, sr Think. We're not aleaving & you're not acoming here.
@167Livingthedream,
The Boss has a bottle of Black Jack Bourbon from the USA.
l prefer vodka, wine or lager. Tried Coors in the US. l liked that. Much better than Budweiser.
@161, @162, @166, @168, @171,…
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well, you know, I live in a country just across the channel were there is a thatcherite conservative absolute majority in the North and old style labour absolute majority in the South.
There are ancient grievances, lost territories, and a total mutual incomprehension not only because we literally speak different languages…
Nevertheless we still manage (with a lot of difficulties) to run this tiny overcrowded country together without war and create high standard of living.
And you know what: Britain created this country by forcing it upon its respective populations!
So if we can manage, maybe the Argentines an the British can find a way to settle their colossal differences so that that everybody wins.
The other option is war, again.
(177) Wim
Jan 08th, 2012 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An adequate description of your beautiful Country; but……:
You, Flemish and Walloons have been warring neighbors since time immemorial......
As you so rightly point out: “Britain created that Country by forcing it upon its respective populations”….....
Anyhow, all seems to indicate that Belgium will be, by democratic means, completely partitioned in a not far future….....
How do you expect Argentina to accept that an implanted population of less than 1.400 British citizens born in Malvinas can decide over millions of square miles of valuable South American territory?
It is not South America or even South American territory, its the South Atlantic and British territory. No more a part of South America than the caribean is part of south america.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And “implanted population” while an accurate description of argentina today is not true about the falklands.
@ 179 Pugol-H You know us Americans don't know much about Geography but to which continent does the Caribbean and Falklands belong to geographically?
Jan 08th, 2012 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On an other note. I saw an interview with John Fowler speaking (what I believe to be) good Spanish. Does anyone know if he was educated in South America or did he learn it in the Islands? He seems to be a smart man.
No, no and no. War no. A civilized solution is possible.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 179 Argentina is in South America. Therefore, Falkland is in South America.
Not Africa, not Europe. South America.
0 (Zero in geography).
Look at a map. Look up. On his head are the sunny beaches of the Province of Buenos Aires.
You can view by Google Earth.
@180 John speaks fluent Spanish.
It is a great man. Unfortunately, I disagree with him.
Geographically then Cuba is part of the US and Trinadad part of Veneuzula! No the issue is geopolitical here and not related to the underlying rock strata.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 182 No. Existed a claim of sovereignty U.S.A. over Cuba? No.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Existed a claim of sovereignty Venezuela's over Trinidad? No.
In the case Malvinas, there is a story. And the Argentine sovereignty claim occurs at the same time of usurpation.
At that time there was no self-determination, true?
Only Davies, and only a first occupation to be false.
Existed an Argentinian claim of sovereignty over the falklands before 1820? No.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Existied a British claim of sovereignty over the falklands before 1820? Yes.
And the issue is not if there was self determination in history,
it is right to self determination today.
Before 1820, the nation's nascent government of Argentina issued payment orders to the soldiers of the Spanish garrison in the Malvinas.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina emerged from the ancient Spanish territory, including the Malvinas.
There is no claim of British sovereignty before 1820.
The British claim before 1820 is well documented back to 1690. But of course only by pretending it doesn't exist, can the argentinian claim make any sense.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina did not inherit all of the “ancient spanish territory” by any means (I presume you mean the vice royalty of the river plate)
And you should know that the British always rejected the spanish claim, as the British claimed the islands long before the spanish did.
1690? the captain Sebald de Weert was earlier in the year 1600
Jan 08th, 2012 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The British discovery course alone does not give rights.
This was said by the British themselves.
Already in 1748 the english government requested permission for scientific expeditions.
The British abandoned all claim to the islands such as signing treaties of Utrecht, and the years 1771, 1783,1790 and others.
Explain to me how the Spanish ruled without protest British?
@185 Marvin:
Jan 08th, 2012 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Before 1820, the nation's nascent government of Argentina issued payment orders to the soldiers of the Spanish garrison in the Malvinas.”
I've heard this story before, but the evidence doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Some paperwork concerning payment of Spanish miltary officials in the Islands did end up on the desk of Saavedra in Buenos Aires due to the chaos surrounding the events of May Week in 1810. The paperwork was a request from Admiral Salazar in Montevedeo for the relevant Real orders in the treasury and was originally destined for Viceroy Cisneros. However, there is no evidence that the revolutionary government payed anyone in the Islands. In fact, the evidence suggests that they forwarded the relevant paperwork to the Spanish authorities in Montevideo.
“There is no claim of British sovereignty before 1820”
The islands were formally claimed by Britain in 1765. This is well documented.
The British abandoned all claim to the islands such as signing treaties of Utrecht, and the years 1771, 1783,1790 and others.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you read those treaties you will find they say no such thing. As well as the fact they are anglo spanish treaties and nothing to do with argentina.
I mean look at article X of the treaty of utrecht ,the spanish ceeded soverignty of Giberalta and Minorca to the British in perpertuity.
In fact the british claim du jour soverignty since 1690, with letters patent issued in 1741.
If you are that confident
Jan 08th, 2012 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why don’t you just stop the talking, put the white and yellow flags down
Get your finger out of your arse,
And do something abt it then,
instead of abusing and blockading a tiny little island ,
But then you haven’t got the guts have you,
Cowards and thieves, all mouth and no trousers,
And you think your man enough to run and defend them,
You cant even get them, the day the world agrees to sanction something to a bunch of thieves,
You might as well let the rest of them out of prison,
Falklands will remain British, as long as their are thieves about trying to steal them.
Sod off .
180 Livingthedream
Jan 08th, 2012 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think John Fowler was educated in South America. He came to the islands as a young man many years ago. I know he has travelled in SA a lot and likes it, as many islanders do. There are many Falkland Islanders who speak good Spanish and have learnt it for business purposes or for their holidays. Children learn Spanish at school and there are language exchanges with Chilean schools.
This will carry on, I hope, unless Argentina gets their way and cuts us off from contact with the rest of SA.
This would be a big mistake for Argentina in terms of ever getting any version of what they want, and would be sad for us.
England could not claim anything in 1765, under the treaties of Munster 1648, Article VI, XIII.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Treaty of Peace, Alliance and Commerce. Madrid 1667 Article I.
Treaty of 1670. Signed by the Earl of Sandwich.
Treaty of Utrecht 1713. Article VII, XIV
Treaty of Seville 1732
Treaty of Aachen (Aquisgrán) 1748
Treaty of Madrid 1758.
Peace Treaty Article II 1763
Treaty of 1790.
England defied all these agreements in 1765 and beyond.
Indeed, in 1765 the islands were already occupied.
What were their rights? None
more crap and no proof
Jan 08th, 2012 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0prove it lier,
show us the papers that said we did it,
lies and more lies .
sod off
I will not do the work for you. Search in the Internet. Read books. Study.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you want to remain ignorant can.
You can also hide your head in the sand. Like the ostrich.
I have done the work, as have many others. Those treaties do not say what you claim they say. There is no truth in the argentinian version of history, it is as simple as that.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You do yourselves no credit trying to find excuses in a false version of history to justify what is completely unaceptable behaviour in the present.
I f you can be bothered to find those treaties exist surley you can be bothered to find out what they say.
Claiming they support your argument when they do not simply makes you look stupid, which I do not believe you are.
red is red
Jan 08th, 2012 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0blue is blue
green is green
thats the truth,
@105 Pugol-H
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I completely agree with you. The crux of the matter is what is happening today.
Much as I find the history behind the Falklands dispute interesting, we must never forget that real people living in the falklands are affected by what is happening and that they are the victims of a quite nasty campaign of threats and intimidation that they did not start.
No matter what happened in the past, I am convinced that an Argentine take-over would turn ugly, no matter how they tried to dress it up.
It is clear from Argentine posts that the Argentinians expect to trample all over the islanders whenever they feel like it if they get possession. They then wonder why we won't negotiate a surrender to them.....
A good analogy would be if mexico wanted to reclaim texas, while making it clear that they considered the US citizens in the state an imported population, effectively trying to classify them as non-people. I am pretty sure that the average yank on the streets would have something to say to that - probably along the lines of “remember the alamo”. (I hope this explains to our american posters how strongly we feel).
The last time I read about agroups of people being classified as non -people was by the third reich. That's not a good role model.
but a good enough model, for argentina to follow,
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0a 21st century country, and look at how many dictators they all seem to aspire to .
@195 Pugol: My answer is for briton @193
Jan 09th, 2012 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0You know very well the meaning of these treaties in the event of recourse to the International Court of Justice.
“Appointed to preside over establishment that claims His Majesty's Government as their own, for the only right of first occupation.”
Designation Richard Moody 1841
FIRST OCCUPATION.
Who is lying, friend?
@191 Monty69 Do you live on the islands? There seems to be a disconnect in understanding on both sides. The Islanders see this as a human issue (their welfare and Livelihood ) while the Argentines see this as just a land issue.
Jan 09th, 2012 - 01:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0There has to be some common ground for there to be understanding. Have the islands tried a marketing Campaign in Argentina showing your human face? Its just a thought.
We don't claim first occupation anymore Marv33 - we do claim a successful occupation after 1833. After the islands had been declared terra nulius by the Americans.
Jan 09th, 2012 - 06:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Charter of 1945 changed EVERTHING - haven't you worked that out either ??
briton (#196)
Jan 09th, 2012 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0“red is red
blue is blue
green is green
thats the truth”
But if you are a human and colour blind, or a lesser animal, your perception might be different.
Ambient lighting, perspective and distance also alter the perception of these colours.
It's not so different in the way human societies view each other . . . .
122 Crackpot
Jan 09th, 2012 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Therefore, it says it does? No, it does not. You have inserted the text you and you are a total charlatan. There is no reference to the issue of territorial Intergrity. The text added is purely a figment of your imagination fantastic. What a loser!
Dear crazy: You are a total charlatan, has eyes but not see, have ears but not hear. What is inserted in the text, in brackets) is the explanation of what it is. When UN Resolution 2065 says:
“... Noting the existence of a dispute between the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland concerning sovereignty over these islands ....”. (Explanation: Recognizing the principle of territorial integrity over self-determination of the existence of a sovereignty dispute).
When Resolution 2065 speaks of “... .. sovereignty over these islands ... ..” This automatically referring to the principle of territorial integrity. Understand them well: EQUALS Sovereignty principle of territorial integrity.
The fact proves that the Malvinas Question General Assembly of the United Nations included this doctrine - the principle of territorial integrity by referring to the interests and NOT the wishes of the population of the islands - in its resolution 2065 (XX), 1965, ratified by later resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37 / 9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 (39 / 6), 1985 (40/21 ), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute is a dispute over territorial integrity.
More information, read the following link.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuestión_de_las_Islas_Malvinas
202 GeoffWard2
Jan 09th, 2012 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You could say that, but the colours remain what they are irrespective.
Surely it is the responsibility of the viewer / reader to sort the problems of determination for him/herself?
202 GeoffWard2
Jan 09th, 2012 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[you understood what it ment, ]
we already knew the answer,
it means the truth,
but alas some see it as not, they wish to remain british, [fact]
we will defend them [fact] argentina cant have them [fact]
but of course they see it differently [do they not]
the islands belong to them, the islanders want to be with them,,the brits wont protect them,,
we know the truth, do they ??
I think it was Mark Twain who said ”you can not depend upon your eyes if your imagination is out of focus.
Jan 09th, 2012 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even if (very big if) argentina could prove its case, let just assume for a moment, would that make what argentina is trying to do now right or justified, in anyway.
Colonial! you have become what you claim you hate.
@197
Jan 09th, 2012 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Remember the Alamo? I do. Let's talk about it. Tejas was Mexican territory, right?
@203 Raul.
Jan 09th, 2012 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Get real. Since when does noting the exsitence of a sovereignty dispute in any way imply anything about the respective merits of self-determination and territoial integrity? I challenge you to find some evidence that it does. You will notice that in resolutions regarding Gibralatar, territorial integrity is mentioned. It is not mentioned in any resolutions rearding the Falkland Islands for one simple reason - it simply isn't relevant.
Referring to the interests and not the wishes of the population of the islands doesn't imply anything of the sort either. That simply refers to the dipsute between Argentina and the UK - in no way does it take away the rights of the Islanders. Recommendations from the decolonisation committee have the ultimate aim of decolonisation and independence, not transfers of sovereignty or swapping one colonial situation (which in this case isn't even particularly colonial) for another.
@207
Jan 09th, 2012 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you may find Texas, as we call it now, was inhabited before the Mexicans/Spanish colonised it.
And this happened everywhere through out human history.
Question for us is how do we behave today.
“Question for us is how do we behave today.”
Jan 09th, 2012 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We recognise the right of previous occupant societies to be afforded the same respect and rights under the laws of the land, whether they are:
the descendants of post-glacial immigrants of 11,00o years ago,
the genetic descendants of later waves of conquering tribes,
the descendants of immigrant 'colonialists' arriving from other continents,
the descendants of slaves that they imported from Africa, and
the whole genetic melting pot that resulted from the last 11,000 years of cross-cultural interbreeding.
Raw power dominance, absorption of earlier societies, genocides, etc. are just what human societies do to further their ends. Some of it is by design, and some 'just happens'.
The outcomes are what we see every day walking down the street, on the beach, and on the television.
Argentina/TFI is just another working through of history's progression. More important than previous events? Yes, certainly, to those involved; no, in the greater passage of history.
ahh perspective
Jan 09th, 2012 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0does not your very words, give the Falkland islanders a voice,
Jan 09th, 2012 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And does not that voice-whom could choose to be anyone in the world today, chooses to be British,
And does not, this then, make Argentina legally and morally obliged to respect that voice, and allow that voice to be heard,
And thus leave them alone to live in peace and safety
Without threats and abuse .
What say you .,
what say you?
Jan 09th, 2012 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Alba gu bra! :-))
or from a crazy man
Jan 09th, 2012 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0little big horn,
Art - you must be older than I thought :-)
Jan 10th, 2012 - 01:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0@201 “We don't claim first occupation anymore Marv33 - we do claim a successful occupation after 1833”
Jan 10th, 2012 - 01:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for giving reason to Argentina and me too, Red Roger Ton ;-)
if you call a German and a garrison of some English ex pats landing on the Falklands with the approval of the British delegation in Buenos Aires an occupation you are in cloud cookoo land. If you have to go back almost 200 years to claim sovereignty over a territory that has been in permanent settlement and under a British flag since then (and before), then you are even dafter.
Jan 10th, 2012 - 02:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentine government are like a bunch on baboons on steroids, they thump their chests and make a lot of noise and drop a load of turds everywhere to claim their territory but in the end all it really does is reinforce the fact that the people there don't want them and at the end of the day, short of exterminating the people and being bombed to kingdom come by the international community, there is **** all they can do about it.
@214
Jan 10th, 2012 - 02:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lt. Col. George A. Custer, last in his class from West Point ( and you wonder why)
@215 Class of 62 my Lord
Ah, when you said that you 'remembered' the Alamo ... :-)
Jan 10th, 2012 - 04:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mind you, not a bad example of the state of play in those days. Spain couldn't hold on to her territories in America, athough she tried. Some of those revolting colonies, in turn, could not hold on to what they thought belonged to them.
Way of the world then I suppose .... so tell me, what do you think are the chances of the USA giving Texas back to Mexico? After all it's probably on their continental shelf, and has an implanted population, oil too, so I've heard.
Don't the Yanks know about CELAC - could be dangerous (although I think it's a type of vegetable) !
:-)
@219
Jan 10th, 2012 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0USA giving Texas back to Mexico? is like you guys giving us Malvinas back , same analogy ? :-))
Yup :-)
Jan 10th, 2012 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Red, I bet you a million dollars that you and I (invite Isolde and Sr Think just in case) we can solve the Malvinas / Falklands issue once and for all. I'm tired of reading the same shit every day :-)))
Jan 10th, 2012 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hell, I just wind em up to see if I can get another lead :-)
Jan 10th, 2012 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your comment is a bit scary though - “ 1766 - November 2nd, ... Choiseul then suggests that, if both the Spanish and English Courts left it to them, the two Ministers could reach an accommodation combining both the Falklands and the Manila Ransom, within 'half an hour'.”
Ain't nothing new in this world, or so it seems :-)
You got that right !
Jan 10th, 2012 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I got better things to worry about, gas prices going up, unemployment rate still high, huge political uncertainty, health care reform and coming soon to the theater near you , a war with Iran?
218 Artillero 601
Jan 10th, 2012 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Class of '62 for me also though, unlike 'blondie', I was most certainly not last.
Chris, West Point also?
Jan 10th, 2012 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@220 Artillero 601
Jan 10th, 2012 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Assume for a minute it happened. Texas was “Returned”
How do you think the Mexicans now living in Texas would feel about finding themselves back in Mexico?
Good question P. They would migrate to Washing State :-))
Jan 10th, 2012 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0208 Crackpot
Jan 10th, 2012 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What are you, Tarzan, gorilla or chimpanzee that you challenge the world with a fallen branch of a tree?
Have you read the link I recommended:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuesti% C3% B3n_de_las_Islas_Malvinas
Always stumble and fall on the same stone. You have eyes and not want to see, hear and do not want you to hear. Gibraltar, Belize, Guyana, Singapore, Malta, Hong Kong. Etc.etc are cases English colonialism and imperialism. Cases are similar but not identical. Persist in your mistake to generalize everything, as if all cases of English colonialism, were all the same. Are not. Why do you insist on cover with a finger the sun enlightens you? Why would you want to ignore the clear evidence as resolution 2065 (XX) of 1965, ratified by later resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37 / 9), 1983 (38/12 ), 1984 (39 / 6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute and reaffirm resolution 2065 (XX) to proceed without delay with the negotiations recommended by the Committee of the United Nations decolonization.
Remember that the specificity of the Malvinas question is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity of Argentina. Is ruled out then the possibility of applying the principle of self determination, as its exercise by the Islanders would cause the “breach of national unity and territorial integrity” of Argentina. In this regard it should be noted that resolution 1514 (XV) “Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples” in the sixth paragraph states that “Any attempt aimed at partial or total disruption of national unity and territorial integrity a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the United Nations Charter. ”
Anti brit rhetoric will get you nothing but a medal
Jan 10th, 2012 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You Argies are good at getting medals,
You get medals for everything except VICTORY .
Still,, someone has to lose,
But hey, at least you came second, laugh laugh .
226 Artillero 601
Jan 10th, 2012 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, I am British, not American.
These discussions are absolutely pointless.
Jan 10th, 2012 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The British and the Argentines are both proud nations who will never surrender an area they perceive to be a part of their homeland.
In cases like this, there are four options:
1. Conflict, eventually leading up to war. I’m afraid this is the situation we’re in.
2. Stalemate.
3. Compromise, which inevitably leaves both sides dissatisfied.
4. Cooperation, a true win-win situation.
Which option do you think is preferable?
@229 Raul
Jan 10th, 2012 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your are missing the point here. Even if your version of 1833 were true,
it would not give argentina the right to do, what it is trying to do now.
Alledged or real crimes in the past are no justification for more crimes in the present.
@229 Raul
Jan 10th, 2012 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Much as I admire the great apes, I'll choose Tarzan, thank you (Johnny Weissmuller RIP). Coincidentally, I am a distant relative of Michael Heseltine.
“Remember that the specificity of the Malvinas question is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity of Argentina. ....”
You first need to prove that the Islands were taken by force and the original population expelled, if you want that argument to carry any weight in any forum that actually matters. You haven't done that and most of the evidence contradicts that assertion. Also, there is no mention of territorial integrity in any UN resolutions relating to the Falkland Islands. So, no, I am not generalising. Territorial integrity is specifically mentioned in the case of Gibraltar, but is not mentioned anywhere in the case of the Falkland Islands (except by Argentinian politicians). Why is that? Because it does not have any relevance to the case of the Falkland Islands, as far as anybody outside of Argentina is concerned. I think Argentina really needs to stop flogging that dead horse. It's a road to nowhere (....actually, please carry on doing it, because it just makes you look foolish).
Nowhere in any UN resolutions does is say that the Islanders have no right to self-determination. Please show me where it does.
@229 Raul
Jan 10th, 2012 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Had a look @ your Question Malvinas Wikipedia.
The Islands are spanish under the treaty of tordisilla. Under this treaty (if you believe it applies) South Georgia & South Sandwich Islands are well inside portugese territory
So not spanish, and therefore not argentinean!
well would you give them another medal for trying,
Jan 10th, 2012 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0or making us all laugh .
229 Raul
Jan 10th, 2012 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can be as repetitive and tedious as you.
Is there anywhere in the UN resolutions that specifically states that the Falkland Islands are an integral part of Argentina's territory?
Is there a resolution that specifically denies us the right to determine our future?
If the answer is no, and no, and I strongly suspect that to be the case, then you can stop cutting and pasting the same old rubbish three times a day and boring us all witless.
In fact I'll add the phrase 'original population'. No you weren't. You made that up.
You did say one right thing; not all cases of colonialism are the same. We are lucky in that there is no original population to give the Falklands 'back to'. We are it.
(232) Wim
Jan 10th, 2012 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say:
In cases like this, there are four options:
1. Conflict, eventually leading up to war.
2. Stalemate.
3. Compromise, which inevitably leaves both sides dissatisfied.
4. Cooperation, a true win-win situation.
Which option do you think is preferable?”
I say:
Option N0. 5 ; where the Brits pack their bags and leave us in peace.
I say option No 6
Jan 10th, 2012 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When Argentineans finally wake up and realise they have been taken for a ride, and the world is laughing at them,
Thus they will give up their illegal claim and leave the Falklands in peace.
Yea we stole Texas, New Mexico and Arizona from Mexico We also stole Puerto Rico and Hawaii but that was pretty much a fact of life in the 19th century for the US and Briton. Countries have learned to deal with it. Are some Mexicans still mad at that? …Sure. Are we giving back Texas? No We might give Puerto Rico independence but they have to vote for it. Everyone learns to live with History
Jan 10th, 2012 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0233 Pugol-H
Jan 11th, 2012 - 12:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Dear Pugol-H
It is absolutely true in 1833. The decolonization committee of the United Nations both theories exhaustively study both English and Argentine and finally ruled in resolution 2065 that recognizes a sovereignty dispute and therefore a “breach of national unity and territorial integrity” of Argentina. He came to that conclusion by analyzing the historical and social processes that occurred in 1833. So the context is English imperialism and colonialism in its maximum expansion around the world and in that time period, hence the context. And in that context, explains the four British invasion to Argentina 1806-1807-1833 and 1843 in “The Return of obligations.” Unable to conquer England to Argentina in 1806 and 1807 will come in 1833 invaded the Falkland Islands and unfortunately continues today, of course most waned, English colonialism and imperialism, which continues today in Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and Iran .
I never cease to claim Argentina since 1833, which is strict justice, to redress breaches of national unity regard it should be borne in mind that resolution 1514 (XV) “Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples” sets in the sixth paragraph that ”Any attempt aimed at partial or total disruption of national unity and territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the United Nations Charter.
Real or alleged crimes in the past do not justify the crimes in the present.
Argentina never ceased to claim the islands as resolution 2065 and later (about 10 resolutions) to speak of the existence of a sovereignty dispute justifies the Argentine claim, and therefore must be repaired because it talks about finding a solution solution to the conflict of sovereignty, bone, the principle of territorial integrity, bone repair the “breach of national unity and territorial integrity” of Argentina.
thanks
RIP 2065 - long dead, and largely forgotten by everyone but the desperate few, one of whom was the killer of course!
Jan 11th, 2012 - 04:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0:-)
No.5's Alive !! Oh no, that was a movie wasn't it? And like all movies, just fantasy.
Memory still not working Think?
there is no faklander this illehal aliens are brits ask them your selves, in any case there is no country fakland only an inplanted colony and a corporate.
Jan 11th, 2012 - 04:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0@240
Jan 11th, 2012 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If I understand the Mexican culture, the “beef” is with Gral Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna for giving it away , don't you agree?
Now in terms of giving Texas back to Mexico , is not up to the US to decide. :-))
@241 Raul
Jan 11th, 2012 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 01806-1807 These were small battles (if that) in a much bigger war against France & Spain, Argentina did not exist then.
This is just one point in what you say!
Your description of events is so distorted from the origional truth, as to make it a propaganda not a historical statement.
How do you expect to be taken seriously if this is your attitude to truth.
ah, but but but
Jan 11th, 2012 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You haven’t read the history according to Argentina, have you,
They even fought the Romans , you know ??
Yep conquered the French defeated the Spanish, licked the Americans and whacked the brits,
A bit to stupid you might think,
Perhaps no more stupid than their deluded claims on the Falklands,
They live in cooks land, and eat cookies,
No offence .lol.
They even fought the Romans , you know ?? YES, we did !!
Jan 11th, 2012 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Date : 9 CE
Location: Teutoburg Forest
Led by Arminius (born in Buenos Aires) adopted by a German tribe , you didn't know that?
ha ha, no i did not,
Jan 11th, 2012 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0thanks
Oh Artillero, Artillero give me back my leigons.
Jan 12th, 2012 - 04:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lol!!!!
Jan 12th, 2012 - 02:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's what happens when you send family members to do the job
Raul
Jan 12th, 2012 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You know not what you say,
Only dreams have you .
.
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