MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentine “grandstanding” and acting illegally in the Falklands’ issue
Argentina’s government is “grandstanding” and acting illegally in imposing a blockade on ships from the Falkland Islands, Henry Bellingham has claimed in an interview with the Lynn News from England. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesIt was first voted on by Mercosur in 2010, but no-one noticed !
Jan 08th, 2012 - 06:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0So they did it again.
Doubt it'll be remembered again after a couple of weeks ;-)
The title say “ Argentine “grandstanding” and acting illegally in the Falklands’ issue”
Jan 08th, 2012 - 06:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0......excusme mylord but who said that ??
Mr Bellingham ......A JUNIOR Foreign Office minister.
Let´s compare another staments and position of high officers in FCO history as well another british figures of unquestionable importance and education in the matter.
1) “I have reviewed all the papers relating to the Falklands. By no means i found clear that we have ever been holders of the sovereignty of these islands.”
Duke of Wellington, the then prime minister 1834 (just one year after British officers took illegally Malvinas islands expelling argentinean inhabitants that lives in peace in that moment on those islands).
2) “... the Argentine government's attitude is not entirely unjustified and our action has been somewhat despotic,”
Sydney Spicer the hishgtest Officer (Senior) in Department of the Foreign Office, 1910.
3) “Who had the best right in that time we annexed the islands. I think was the government of Buenos Aires [...] We can not easily make a good claim and craftily have done everything possible to avoid discussing the issue with Argentina ”
R. Campbell, Secretary of the Foreign Office, 1911.
4) “the Argentine claim to the Falklands in any form are baseless” ...... “the English case is not strong enough to face a public controversy”
Sir Malcolm A. Robertson, British ambassador in Buenos Aires, 1928
5) “Our case has a certain fragility” and advised that eventually became “feel strong on the islands, avoiding discussion on a policy to drop the case”
George Fitzmaurice , Foreign Ministry legal, 1936.
6) ”... our took by force of Falkland Islands in 1833 was so arbitrary [...] is therefore not easy to explain our position without showing ourselves as international (bandits) outlaws. ”
John Troutbeck, SENIOR official of the British Foreign Office, 1936
This is only examples, there is more but Mercopre$$ prefers show Bellingham´s opinion. JUNIOR in FCO.
2 so_far (#) ---That was then now we are telling you to fuck off and to stop living in the past if you think you have a case then take it to law that's what civilized country's would do. . We are also showing the World that your country's political leaders including the Woman with a plastic face are nothing more than a bunch of psychotic criminals who break international law to try and get what they want. Perhaps we should send down our new 1 billion £ stealth warship to teach you psychopaths a lesson on how to behave yourselves. Keep it up and we will send down the other five 1 billion-stealth warships when they are ready as well. We do not mind we are built for war it is in our blood seeing that we have to keep psychopaths like you lot at bay all the time.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 07:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
Jan 08th, 2012 - 09:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mr Bellingham, a junior Foreign Office minister, reportedly said:
“Blockading ships with the Falklands’ flag is contrary to the international law of the sea............”
Could any of you, “British Legal Experts” guide me to the article, section, subsection, clause, paragraph, passage, item or sentence on the UNCLOS convention where it says that it’s illegal for any Country to refuse entry to its harbors to any offending foreign ship….?
http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part1.htm
http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part1.htm
I couldn’t find it.
Can you…..?
In the last hour Prime Minister David Cameron said in a television interview that the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands will never be negotiated; that the UK are concentrating their efforts on reinforcing the defence of the islands and building strong relationships with other South American countries, Brazil and Chile in particular.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0So, and that noise Argentina is making is a complete waste of time.
@4 ..... and Falkland flag ships are 'offending' how exactly??? flying off aircraft..? ????
Jan 08th, 2012 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Those links deal with right of free passage through waters out to the 12 mile limit... this article is about making a legitimate port call....
Be a good chap... stick to what you know... whatever that may be.......
pressed British people :
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0you see that your admin is incapable even against just simple boat
blockade ...means that UK is finished as strategically and can not do
anythings alone....!!
@7.... the boats they come ..... the boats they go....
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Blockade? What blockade?? The RG government couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery...... let alone a blockade
ElaineB, the good relationship of Cameron:
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mundo/858885-governo-do-reino-unido-diz-que-brasil-negou-entrada-de-navio-britanico.shtml
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mundo/858885-governo-do-reino-unido-diz-que-brasil-negou-entrada-de-navio-britanico.shtml
** 8 frank
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0we talk about at the same things
BECOUSE
the aim of these steps are directly targeted to British admin mechanism
not their trade relations/people....!!
TWIMC
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Anglos dodging my simple question and request (4), as always……..
“Lord Ton”, our resident lawman, not answering despite I can see he has read it….
“Frank, the Yank”... dodging the question….
“ElaineB”… dodging it too….
Seems that I’ll have to rephrase and repeat my request:
Could any of you “Anglo Legal Experts” guide me to any section, subsection, article, clause, paragraph, passage, item, sentence or wording on the ”UNCLOS Convention” or any other ”International Law of the Sea” stating that it’s illegal for any Country to refuse entry to its harbors to any offending, unwished or unwelcomed foreign ship….?
@9 I never click links. If you have an opinion then express it.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0so_far, all your examples are opinions of individuals, not government policy of the time. Mr Bellingham is simply stating UK government policy - no negotiations with anyone without permission from the Falkland Islanders. This is entirely consistent with British obligations under international law.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What's more, all those opinions date from before 1948 when the right to self determination for ALL PEOPLES became enshrined in international law, well for those countries which ratified the UN Charter at least - one of which is Argentina. Argentina is obliged under international law to respect the Falkland Islanders right to self determination, there is no way around that.
TWIMC
Jan 08th, 2012 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is necessary to repeat….:
The current inhabitants of the Malvinas Islands DO NOT constitute “A PEOPLE”.
They are British citizens squatting on stolen Argentinean soil, misnamed” British Overseas Territory” by the UK government.
The citizenship of the Falkland Islanders is irrelevant. They are a people and have been recognised as such by the UN. Get over it.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0By the way UNCLOS mostly covers resources and high seas. What you need to be looking at is all the WTO agreements. By refusing entry of FI flagged vessels Mercopress countries are breaking a number of the WTO rules they signed up to...
(16)
Jan 08th, 2012 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say:
”They are a people and have been recognised as such by the UN.”
I say:
Any link to it or do I just have to take your “British Word” for it?
You say:
”By refusing entry of FI flagged vessels Mercopress countries are breaking a number of the WTO rules they signed up to...”
I say:
Any link to it or do I just have to take your “British Word” for it?
Here you go Think:
Jan 08th, 2012 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UN Charter (Chapter 1, Article 1, Paragraph 2)
http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/
ICESCR (Part 1, Article 1, Paragraph 1)
http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/
ICCPR (Part 1, Article 1, Paragraph 1)
The UN Charter and the two Covenants which flow from it have all three been RATIFED by Argentina.
No, back at you. Please provide a link to any UN Security Council or General Assembly Resolution or any other multilateral treaty which both the UK and Argentina have ratified which specifically limits the right to self determination for the Falkland Islanders.
WTO rules
http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/
This action by Mercosur is quite obviously a discrimination between trading partners; it breaks the rule of reciprocity, national treatment, it is a non-tariff trade barrier, it is an unfair condition, reducing fair competition and goes against development.
(17)
Jan 08th, 2012 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here you go Think...... ?
Where.......? What…...? Who…....?
You just link to documents that do not support, corroborate or confirm any of your previous postulates, points of view and/or personal opinions.
Where in your UN links says that ”the Malvinas Islanders are a people and have been recognised as such by the UN.” as you postulate above?
Where in your WTO link says that ”By refusing entry of FI flagged vessels Mercopress countries are breaking a number of the WTO rules” as you postulate above?
What did I read ? Did the first entry and then I've only just got back, and as it's late I'm not stopping long. Making assumption's again Think?
Jan 08th, 2012 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Off the top of my head I have no idea what international laws are being broken. More likely to be a Treaty thing I would have thought. The UN Charter may be a good place to start.
And where does the UN say that they are NOT a people Think?? They are most certainly recognised as a non-self governing territory with all the rights that are attached to NSGT's. That includes the right to self-determination. Check the Charter out, Argentina signed it.
It also includes the right to make use of their own Resources, and Article 73 places obligations on Argentina in their dealings with all NSGT's.
“ Members of the United Nations also agree that their policy in respect of the territories to which this Chapter applies, no less than in respect of their metropolitan areas, must be based on the general principle of good-neighbourliness, due account being taken of the interests and well-being of the rest of the world, in social, economic, and commercial matters.”
So tell me Think - what of 'good neighbourliness' ??
Been a long day - Goodnight :-)
I think 'Think' is misnamed. I checked the links in 17 and can see exactly what is referred to, so why can't you Think'
Jan 08th, 2012 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or should we start calling you 'No Think'?
Try again Think. The UN Charter, ICESCR, ICCPR all have self determination as a key principle and one which applies to “all peoples”.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now I challenge you to provide the evidence that the UN does not accept that the Falkland Islanders constitute a “people” and that the UN has somehow limited the right of self determination for the Falkland Islanders.
Prove to us that the UN has made an exception in the case of the Falkland Islanders and that therefore the UN Charter, ICESCR and ICCPR do not apply to the Falkland Islanders in full.
Take another look at the WTO link Think. It's staring you in the face.
(19) Lord Ton
Jan 08th, 2012 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say:
”Off the top of my head I have no idea……” ?
I say:
Being defeated by the Frogs and Boshes on the same day must have affected you memory! :-)
Illegally? But, Malvinas belong Argentina. In your territory, Argentina is soberan. English are pirates, no more than this. In the next war: England X UNASUL. And this continent will be a only country.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The English are only pirates in the fairy story Juan Peron decided to weave and make compulsory teaching to all children. Get them while they are too young to exercise free thinking. He did it to unite a disparate nation hell bent on creating drama internally. He just focused it in another place. Enjoy the drama because nothing has changed and nothing will change.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is no way other South American countries will go to war with Argentina. Why would you even think that? They make soothing noises to your nutter of a President; that's all.
Brasileiro. The Falklands have never belonged to Argentina. France, Britain, Spain and then Britain again, but never Argentina.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway, you shouldn't really speak considering all of Brazil was stolen from its native inhabitants, especially considering the Falkland Islands were uninhabited when first discovered.
I invite all south americans: blocked all british interestings. The victory become like Mahatma Ghandi and Índia off-trade.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good luck Brasileiro! To be fair, perhaps you could blockade the French colony of Guyane at the same time...
Jan 08th, 2012 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh and you obviously have not noticed the hole in your Ghandi/India argument. The Indians wanted indpenedence. The Falkland Islanders want to remain British.
Why you living in Argentina domain, and no submit from Agentinians law? Do you are british? So, go home, sir!
Jan 08th, 2012 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's not an “Argentine domain” and never has been.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Home for the Falkland Islanders is the Falkland Islands...
24 ElaineB “The English are only pirates in the fairy story Juan Peron decided to weave”
Jan 08th, 2012 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Peron did not invade 1/3 of the planet, the English pirates did.
1/3 of the planet Marcos? Even so, the British started to dismantle their empire during Peron's first term as president, with the independence of India in 1948. By the time Peron ended his last term as President in 1974, the British Empire was effectively gone. Except for a few small exceptions it was all independent, well the bits that wanted to be independent at least.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yet, in Argentina, have any of the territories stolen from their native owners been handed back and given independence? Even today? No, nothing.
Natives? What did you say? My elglish is casual...oh dificult language! But, South América is better than North América. We dont killed all natives like the saxons in the north. We dont destructed all rain forests, like saxons in the north. We dont deported to Libéria ours slaves, like the north to do, in finish to Civil War. You dont belong from our wolrd. We are latins, many times invaded from pirates. Three thousands of peoples in South América never will constitute one country. For good all, please. go home british.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
Jan 08th, 2012 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fact remains that Mr. Bellingham, a junior Foreign Office minister, said:
“Blockading ships with the Falklands’ flag is contrary to the “International Law of the Sea””.
Fact remains that the self proclaimed brightest (chuckle chuckle©) Anglo minds on the comment section of MercoPress could not link or quote one iota about any “International Law of the Sea” that forbids any Country to refuse entry to its harbors to any offending, unwished or unwelcomed foreign ship……
Fact remains that Mr. Bellingham, a junior Foreign Office minister is telling porkies………….
Excellent job Argentina, once again and again. Now that the FCO “junior” guy “reveals” what has been in the press for so long, we are appalled. Remember that the FCO had previously said that the so called “blockade” would have little effect (if any)? it seems that they were wrong then and this is another proof. Remain VIGILANT as it's only a question of time. International law will always prevail and Argentina's soreveignty rights will be duly recognised by the UK
Jan 08th, 2012 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has achieved nothing except to get a little excited. Nothing has changed and nothing will change. Argentina is impotent.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0International law has prevailed and the people of the Falkland Islands remain on their land.
@32 You 'latins' did invade and take the land from the indigenous people of South America. Try reading up on the actions of President Roca of Argentina who committed genocide.
Did Mr Bellingham actually mention Harbours and Ports?
Jan 08th, 2012 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We shouldn't let assumptions by Mercopress muddy either the Territorial or International waters.
Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@14 “They are British citizens squatting on stolen Argentinean soil, ”
Jan 08th, 2012 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whose stolen land are you squatting on Thicko???
16 Think
Jan 08th, 2012 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's a bit much coming from you. You seem to think it's fine to bore us all to death with with Argentina's 'territorial integrity', for which we have nothing but your word, or Argentina's 'imprescriptable rights', for which we also have only your word.
On the other hand, having your boats hassle our boats when they're on their way to some other place through your waters? Are you sure there isn't a rule about that? We couldn't give a stuff about your ports as we haven't used them for years.
2 so_far
Sidney Spicer and the Duke of Wellington FFS??? Are you for real?
Whatever you may think about Henry Bellingham, I think he has a better grasp of foreign policy than someone who's been dead 150 years.
We see the desperation from the wanabe thieves again,
Jan 08th, 2012 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They will say, anything and do anything,,, but back it up,
They wont go to the ICJ , cowards to the last,
If you were real men, you would stop a British warship or a British ship that carries the British flag,
but of course like all bullies and cowards, you stop Spanish unarmed fishing boats with the F/I flag, then lie to your indoctrinated people claiming another victory for a dictatorship,
Grow up and sod off .
35 Elaine “Nothing has changed and nothing will change”
Jan 08th, 2012 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Says who? You? :-)))
#3 There are four civilized nations Argentina should take an example from.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UK: www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/sep/02/dale-farm-early-ache-tightening-vice1554 England Queen Mary of England passes the Egyptians Act. Being a Gypsy is punishable by death, as is being found in “the fellowship or company of Egyptians” - 1650s England Last known hanging for the crime of being a Gypsy, in Suffolk, England. Gypsies are deported to America.
www.fenland.gov.uk/article/4150/Historical-Context
Canada : Last December, the Toronto high school student made headlines when he was unexpectedly arrested and sent to a Canada Border Services Agency detention centre. His application for refugee status had been denied, and Garcia, then 18, was to be deported to his native Mexico on New Year’s Day.
www.thestar.com/news/article/1108990
USA: U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement deported nearly 400,000 people during the fiscal year that ended in September, the largest number of removals in the agency's history. www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57350039/majority-of-hispanics-oppose-deportation-policy/
Australia: In 2005, The Indonesian boat was carrying just six crew members, three kilograms of fish, Australia put in place a National Plan of Action, “In 2006/07 specific funding was given to Customs and Border Protection and AFMA to deter illegal foreign fishing in northern waters.” The impetus for funding was propelled out of concern for protection of our own fish stocks, but also by a UN International Plan of Action, signed by 110 nations in 2001.
Between July 2007 and July 2008, 186 boats were apprehended, 141 of these were Indonesian-owned boats. The entire crews were arrested and transferred to immigration detention centres, their boats towed to the nearest port - most often Darwin - and burnt.
www.abc.net.au/environment/articles/2011/12/13/3389001.htm
(39) Monty 96
Jan 08th, 2012 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0First things first….................
Did you ever catch that 14 pounder sea trout?
Does Mr. M get proper bacon and sausages to his scrambled eggs?
Are all those little M’s running around the house on their summer holiday driving you nuts?
Now to the less pleasant issues…………...........
1) You must have me confused with somebody else….. I have NEVER used the terms 'Territorial Integrity', or 'ImprescriptIBLE Rights'…… Those are not “My Words”…..If you don’t believe me, please feel free to search and check the excellent MercoPress archive ….
2) Our boats register, control and inspect your boats because of two reasons. Illegal fishing and the sad fact that Malvinas are rapidly becoming a hub on the cocaine smuggling routes. (Your prisons where until recently full of Spanish narcotic smugglers (until the evidence was “sniffed away” by your ex Police Chief ;-)
3) “Our Ports, you couldn't give a stuff about” include, from now on, all Brazilian, Uruguayan, Paraguayan and Argentinean ports…….. And we are working hard on Chile as you well know……
Regards to the family
El Think
I think what Argentina is failing to understand, is simply that no matter what actions they take, they will not gain control over the islands. The action that would be an exception to this would be for Argentina to take the islands by force (and we all know what happened when they try that) or if the islanders decide they want to be Argentine. Unless either of these two conditions are met, all of these hopeless acts will simply achieve nothing.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think
Jan 08th, 2012 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I reissue my challenge to you to provide evidence that the UN does not accept that the Falkland Islanders constitute a “people” and that the UN has somehow limited the right of self determination for the Falkland Islanders, that it has suspended the operation of the UN Charter for the Falkland Islanders.
Grande BRAZUCA (32), le stamu dandu pá ke tengam stos gringos!
Jan 08th, 2012 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now, the real problem is CREDIT SUISSE. People, we need to work together.
Brazuca, istos rapazes de quarta categoria que moram na nossa terra. Vô tchi kontar! Obrigadão!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrAr30f67aI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrAr30f67aI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrAr30f67aI
@$3 'the sad fact that Malvinas are rapidly becoming a hub on the cocaine smuggling routes. (Your prisons where until recently full of Spanish narcotic smugglers '
Jan 08th, 2012 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Full???? 2 out of 6 inmates???? One third is hardly 'full'
(45)
Jan 08th, 2012 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Long time ago you made it into my “Turnip” list.
As you already know, I only interact with “Turnips” to correct their gross misconceptions or outright lies…..
As yours at post (15)
#44 denial is a silent killer and those who refuse to face the facts will be lost in the real world, british implanted illegal aliens resistance is futile.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 043 Think
Jan 08th, 2012 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So all South American ports are now your ports? To the extent that you can ''register, control and inspect' boats on their way there? Do your neighbours know about this? I'd like to see you try it on the Brazilians, and the Uruguayans have already told us what we need to do to get around it. It's hardly overwhelming support. I suggest you tell them all that their ports ar now your ports right away and see what happens
As for the prisons, they are mainly occupied by our own home grown crims and always have been. I'd also bear in mind that libel laws do exist on the internet, even if they are hard to enforce.
Think- not quite as you dream re S American ports an flag is it? Facts are that FI flagged vessels are automatically also on the British Merchant Marine registry so can fly the red ensign if the wish - as Ur Foreign Minister has stated - that is all they need to do. Not sure about the Spanish owned ones what their options are - may they can fly the Spanish flag?
Jan 08th, 2012 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So in reality it will not make much difference- other than perhaps to the Spanish vessels - which will not increase Spanish love of Argentina will it?
Ur has also stated-Pres Mujica- that it will NOT support a ban on economic trade as that would be affecting people,s human rights.
Fact is also that containers of goods arrive here still on a regular basis from Chiles and Uruguay. Not so far from Brazil for a simple reason - we are a mere small village in Brazil population speak so not of much interest to them as a trade partner!
Can you enlighten me as to why so many over there- starting with your Mr Timmerman - LIE about who was and who was not told to leave in 1833?
Both Arg and UK have the historical documents from the time that clearly state:
1.The Buenos Aires militia were indeed ordered to leave and did so.
2.The civilans were invited to stay and accept British rule, or leave if they wished. Only FOUR left! All the others stayed.
Charles Darwin also referred to their prescence when he visited the Islands 10 years or so later.
Why do they shout the LIE - when they know the Truth?
@49 Pirat-Hunter (#) But those who face the facts, and accept them are sure to remain in the real world. By your reasoning you are agreeing with the fact that if Argentina choose to ignore the fact that the Islanders have a right to live on THEIR islands, that they will lose ? By chum old boy, your starting to understand. They are not aliens, and if you refer to my previous comment, you will understand that, no matter what you do, you will not get the islands, unless by aggression or if the islanders change there minds over what government they want to be under. So in other words, it doesn't look like the islanders will be yours anytime soon, or for that matter ever. Dont cry mate, focus on working on your own country, and keeping that going.......
Jan 08th, 2012 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rabble rabble rabble.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0More british tears. HA! ;)
Rather the opposite, just a clear statement that highlights the hopelessness of your actions :')
Jan 08th, 2012 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How is that hopeless?. You are the ones making big deal over this.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Get over it already. :)
hopeless- impossible to analyse or solve-unable to learn, function, etc
Jan 08th, 2012 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This sums up Argentina's actions ^ (especially the 'unable to learn part')
We are not making a big deal over it, it barely gets media coverage over here. Its been dismissed as another useless stunt. Please refer to my previous comment, the fact WHY its hopeless and you will understand.
That doesn't sum up anything at all.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Funny how you say this barely gets media coverage when in fact 3 of 5 articles in top stories are about the islands.
There is no hopelessness. Unlike the rest, i couldn't care for the islands. I'm just here for the trolling part. Keep participating. :-)
Homeless of UK, GO HOME TO LONDON!
Jan 08th, 2012 - 10:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is incorrect i clearly stated in post 56# ' it barely gets media coverage over here. ', over here being a reference to my geographical location, aka Britain. (geographical meaning position in the world) Stating that there is no hopelessness does not make it so. Please refer to post 52 # and you will se my reasoning for my statement, unless of course your statement bout trolling means that you have tried to pass off you comments as mere 'trolling' due to the fact that your argument or any points have thus far been proven inadequate, and have chosen to give up ?
Jan 08th, 2012 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0how do you know we are homeless,
Jan 08th, 2012 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0unless you are too,
where is london
go burn some kookies
@ 49 “illegal aliens resistance is futile”. Sounds a bit corny. This sentence is used in TV shows by the main villain, just before they get nailed.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We have'nt begun to resist yet. We're just warming up. We're here all millenium.
Just face it. You can't shift us from the Falklands short of using force, and I don't see the other nations in South America joining in an armed conflict, despite what some of the posters above think. You also cannot gaurantee victory in a war.
Anyway - why would we just role over if you re-took the Falklands. Our economy is suffering at the moment, but in a few years it will have recovered. We could always re-arm and go for round 3 in the 2020s. Do you fancy having your national infrastructure dismantled by a RN carrier task force fielding F35s? Before you dismiss it out of hand , the desire for revenge has driven nations to do similar things before.
Your rather second rate paper blockade is easy to circumvent (it's mostly symbolic). Your navy and coast guard will only ever take action against easy targets, like fishing boats.
Every action you take makes us more determined to never yield to the likes of you.
If you want to know why we won't give in re-read post 42. If that is the mentality of the sort of people we are dealing with, we can never give our people over to them, and we will never make them give their homes up to you.
As for the point about Argentina's actions not being the main news, that is true. However, the public in the UK is becoming more aware of what is happening. The PM spoke today on TV about the current situation vis a vis Argentina. Its' not considered to be a crises but he made it clear that we will not yield to pressure.
(50) Monty96
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course all South American ports are our South American ports. To the extent that we can refuse entry to any offending, unwished or unwelcomed foreign ship.
We and our neighbors just informed you about our unanimous decision.
And those are just the first “try-casts” of a long fishing season, my fellow angler-woman….
You know it and we know it….
(51) Islander1
Who is lying?
Those expelled people that you “so conveniently” denominate “Buenos Aires Militia” were in fact the majority of the Malvinas population, composed of men, women and children as the historical documents from the time clearly state.
Then the Brits tricked some of the men to stay and work for them with false promises of good pay…..
When you Brits, yet again, weaseled from your word, those same men rebelled and killed most of the foreign leadership of the Islands.
This fact was so clear at the time that even your British judges didn’t have the stomach to try and condemn those men.
@59
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gotta love this guy trying to write definitions like if i didn't know. How ignorant.
Fact is you said ''Over Here'' like if you were talking about Mercopress, and MP is doing a lot of coverage in this matter.
Perhaps you need to learn to express more properly.
Besides, lets honest here,
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Everything CFK has half done, has had no effect,
Any decent competent country would do it properly,
Not play with it, like a Barbie doll does,
If Argentina is going to blockade the Falklands, without the world laughing at you,
Please for your own sanity, DO IT PROPERLY,
Ban all flights to the Falklands,
Stop or shoot down any that refuse,
Ban all shipping to the Falklands,
Board all ships of all countries, and force them to go back , or sink them,
Cut of all communications with the out side world,
Send out all your subs, and stop any sly frogman or frog ladies from entering,
In other words put an argentine exclusion zone around the Falklands,
If you are going to hurt them, then do it properly,
Doesn’t dilly dally like a child,
[now we wait for the excuses to roll in ]
.
Good Morning all - firstly I should correct an error from my last post. It's Article 74 that lays obligations on Argentina, 73 does so on Britain.
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for the concept of International Law. Almost excluively founded on norms and Treaties. I have no idea what the exact words Bellingham used, but he was probably referring to the norm of free passage.
As for Argentina's 'right' to close its ports, I would have thought every country had that option. If any part of any Treaty is broken by it, then the matter can be dealt with via the relevant organisation or arbitration. Argentina has a poor reputation as far as the latter is concerned.
As for the Expulsion Myth, this is old and easily disproven. The Lexington had removed most of the settlers, who where apparently willing to go. There is no evidence that any of them tried to get back to the Islands.
Mestivier's garrison were the 'squatters' and were asked to leave. They did so. Only 4 settlers accompanied them, and that was for financial reasons as the 2 men and their wives couldn't make a living on the Islands.
The rest appear to have been easily persuaded to stay. Being paid in silver rather than promissory notes undoubtedly helped.
Vernet was a con-man of course, who did not use silver, but worthless paper that could only be exchanged in his store for over priced goods. The Gauchos rioted over that. Nothing revolutionary about it, just a good old dispute over pay and conditions, which ended in 5 murders.
The murderers could have been tried, but there was a legal technicality over whether the dead men were under the 'King's Protection' at that point. The 3 law officers decided that they were not sure. Never got to a judge or a trial. Strange decision in many way, and not fully explained by those who made it.
By then, most of the rioters charged with murder were dead anyway. Those prison hulks were not healthy places.
Not Brits then who 'weasled', but Vernet's employees who were in charge there!
History !
But one has to wonder, what Argentina would do, or say, if for example the British thus blocked all Argentinean ships from entering British ports,
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0any guesses ?
I see Think is not up for (or to) the challenge, even one put down by a Turnip. So much for correcting this Turnip's apparent gross error of fact...
Jan 08th, 2012 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 09th, 2012 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 063 Think
Jan 09th, 2012 - 12:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0''Who is lying?''
You are, mainly. The eyewitness accounts from the time (Fitzroy's and Thomas Helsby's) say something rather different to yours, although you don't name them.
The accounts don't say why they murdered their bosses ( and tried to murder everyone else including the women and children). If as you say it was because they didn't get paid enough for 'gambling, quarrelling, and fighting with long knives, giving each other severe wounds'' I can see why they are national heroes in Argentina.
Why don't you tell us what happened to Antonina Roxa and Gregoria Madrid? The 1851 census has rather a lot of gauchos and their families. By that time Gregoria Madrid had married a Perry of the military pensioners and her descendents live in the islands to this day.
The riot and resulting murders appear to have ben over pay. Silver was acceptable and allowed the Gauchos to purchase goods from visiting ships at cheaper prices. That didn't suit Vernet who paid in 'promissory notes'. In 1857 his compensation payment was reduced by £1,850 because of the notes found in the Islands secure box when a settlement was establish in the 1840's.
Jan 09th, 2012 - 01:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0It also meant that the Gauchos were indebted to Vernet, and this was reputedly used to keep them there and make them work. Slaves were treated in a similar manner, so it is hardly surprising that a 26 year old hot head should decide to change the status quo.
Revolutionaries are supposed to be noble. This was an argument that went wrong.
Going back to the Expulsion Myth, I have doubts that who stayed and who went is really very important. If all had left, it wouldn't have made any difference to the sovereignty claim.
I am heavily into 19th century diplomatic correspondence at the moment and it's quite clear that the concept of 'inheritance' is another Myth. Spain certainly didn't see it that way, and even Britain's recognition of the United Provinces in 1825 came without any exclusion to Spain's rights there. Hence the Treaty itself says nothing on the matter of recognition and concerned itself solely with commercial matters.
No inheritance leaves Argentina with a gap between 1816 and 1833 to establish its own sovereignty claim. Jewett is a joke, he didn't actually do anything, didn't impose any authority and then left again. Any discussion turns on Vernet, but he wasn't reliable for either side.
I believe that Vernet did too little, too late and that BA's serious attempt with Mestivier was also far too late!
One of the surprising things is that while BA was prepared to defy the Americans and try again, they didn't do so after Onslow. Even though the British force did not stay!
Still working on that :-)
http://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/
(66) Mr. Lorton
Jan 09th, 2012 - 05:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0I repeat………….:
”Mestivier's garrison” as you ”so conveniently” call them were, in fact, the majority of the Malvinas population, composed of men, women and children as the historical documents from the time clearly state…..And they were expelled….. No myth there.
I knew you would have to agree with me about Mercosur's 'right' to close its ports….., of course, every Country has that option.
No “Illegal Act”, no “Economic War”, no nothing……., just Countries reserving their “Right of Admission”……..
(70) Monty96
Where exactly do the eyewitness accounts from the time (Fitzroy's and Thomas Helsby) say something rather different to what I say at my post (63)?
About Antonina Roxa and Gregoria Madrid……Surely a case of ”native women” going British….. Nothing exceptional about that……. Just normal survival strategy and human behavior….
As is the case of the many British male soldiers going native and choosing to stay in Argentina after the British invasions of 1806 and 1807………….
You may remember “Mr. Tim” a poster in here, a polite person and the vice president of the British Legion in Argentina if my memory serves me correctly….
By his own account, he is a direct descendant of one of those British soldiers that stayed…..
Think - Mestivier's 'population' would, I think the term is yours, best be described as 'implanted' :-)
Jan 09th, 2012 - 05:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for 1806/07 - BA refused to comply with the terms of surrender that its own General had offered, some of those soldiers had little choice but to go native - they were forbidden to return home, and forceably distributed around the Provinces.
You need to read more Think !
(73) Mr. Lorton
Jan 09th, 2012 - 05:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Those British soldiers got surely as little choice as the ”Gaucho Murderers”, Antonina Roxa and Gregoria Madrid got…..
Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo…….................. lad.
That doesn't seem to translate very well Think.
Jan 09th, 2012 - 06:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0I was also amused that you could consider an invading armed force to constitute a 'population'.
What goes around, comes around .......... old 'un!
@ 60
Jan 09th, 2012 - 06:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0teng k tar totamente louko, makako - um amerika do sul unida era nada mais k um sonho de simon bolivar...
o k ta akontecendo kom vc? a mayoria dos brazildos detestam aos tcheis - komo no resto do amerika do sul...
To my cousins in Argentina. You live next door to us, and many of our family across the river are sane and let everyone live in peace, with a desire for economic stability and progressive development. (The politicians are another matter!) Stop your politicians’ immature and argumentative conduct with the UK, (that is really an attempt at distraction from the many internal problems that exist). We all need each other.
Jan 09th, 2012 - 06:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0As an objective Uruguayan, I suggest that one of the more intelligent solutions proposed during the last decades was by David P. Michaels, the economic and political strategist, (also know for his global humanitarian efforts).
In his commentary titled, “Economic Solution to Falklands/Malvinas Dilemma” he stated, “a principal step towards a ‘diplomatic’ solution to the dilemma, which would simultaneously secure a peaceful ‘economic’ remedy and dispel any future thoughts of aggressive acts, is to invite the Islands to become a member of Mercosur, the South American common market.”
He further proposed, “all economic claims by the Falklands/Malvinas and Argentina could be irrevocably vested with a ‘Falkland Islands/Malvinas Development Fund’, created to finance exploitation of its natural resources. The Islanders would be the principal partner of the ‘Falklands/Malvinas Islands Development Fund’, but like any corporation or government that requires investment capital, utilization of the international capital markets to raise funding for development of its resources, would be a normal course of action. The central banks of the Mercosur members could be invited to subscribe to a minority percentage of the fund; the majority percentage being globally marketed by a consortium of Anglo-Argentine investment brokers.”
David Michaels continued, “in ‘yesterday’s’ world, power was principally in the hands of the politicians of the nation-states. However, in ‘today’s’ world, power is vested and balanced within, not only the nation-states, but also with the global
Alternatively, Argentina could just give up its spurious claim, stop brainwashing its children, recognise that the Falklanders' rights are protected by the UN .... and butt out!
Jan 09th, 2012 - 07:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0CONTINUATION OF ABOVE (Jan 09th, 2012 - 06:26 am) ......
Jan 09th, 2012 - 07:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0....David Michaels continued, “in ‘yesterday’s’ world, power was principally in the hands of the politicians of the nation-states. However, in ‘today’s’ world, power is vested and balanced within, not only the nation-states, but also with the global markets and, more significantly, individuals. Globalization has ‘wired’ the world into networks, giving more power to individuals to influence both markets and nation-states. This era of ‘globalization’ will shape the domestic politics and foreign relations of practically every country. The more that market forces govern and economies are opened to free trade and competition, the more efficient and prosperous economies will be. Globalization will be the prime mover in converting the myopic mind sets and reactive nature of many politicians to be proactive leaders and solution seekers.”
Supporters of this initiative added, “David Michaels’ idea for resolution of the Falklands/Malvinas controversy is exactly the kind of ‘out of the box’ thinking that is needed for such awkward conflicts. Adding the Islands to Mercosur and setting up an investment fund is exactly the kind of thing that could provide all interested parties with a win-win situation and permit everyone not only to save face but to begin a long and fruitful collaboration.”
Since sovereignty is becoming less important in a global economy, the differences over the Falkland’s/Malvinas sovereignty can be mitigated by including the islands into a regional trading block. In time the Falklands/Malvinas will be considered politically aligned with the Mercosur countries, while maintaining its traditional ties with Britain. With its rich natural resources, it will be a boon for the entire region and the friction over their sovereignty will be reduced.
Err - NO!
Jan 09th, 2012 - 08:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Islander's appear to wish to stay as they are. So that's it. End of story. Period (to quote a phrase)
What they want, they get ...... and that's the point so many of you fail to understand!
Nothing to do with anyone else, but the folk that live there.
It's really simple ... really simple.
Can't figure out why you don't get it.
I would imagine, although Mr Bellingham didn't actually say this either, that any attempt by some scruffy Argentine Patrol Boat to intercept a Royal Navy Warship in International Waters would be sent to join the Belgrano PDQ.
Jan 09th, 2012 - 08:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Dear Thunk....
Jan 09th, 2012 - 08:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Obviously your long hiatus in hospital has dulled your senses but under the LOSC article 21, para 2 a state may only deny access to a ship carrying a flag of a state/territory if that state/territory has been involved in pollution or environmental damage of the coastal states waters or is transporting arms or you are in a state of war with that state/territory,
I don't think not liking the fact you don't have the Falklands and wants them counts as a recognised reason to bar ships flying its red ensign under international law....in fact anywhere.....
64 Sir Rodderick Bodkin @ Well i presumed by your replies that you evidently needed help with the understanding of my post. It was your ignorance that made me think this.
Jan 09th, 2012 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0If we're going to discuss technicalities then 'on here' would have been a reference to this website. 'On this website there is no coverage' , if i had said' over here , this website doesn't cover it' that doesn't really make sense does it ?
Perhaps you need to try to learn how to read, or work on your grammar. Or better still why dont you just no comment, it is clear that alot of the content and debate that arises on this website is a bit over your head.
2 so_far
Jan 09th, 2012 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So_far excellent response. Argentina with Mercosur is complying with Argentine rights over the islands.
... .. However, the 30 year anniversary of the war between Britain and Argentina, Mr. Bellingham reiterated that the control of the islands was not subject to debate.
That's the problem, you must recognize the problem, and will have no solution to the sovereignty question. His problem is that the world is demanding that I acknowledge that they have a problem and refuse to acknowledge it.
“I think what the Argentines are doing is a disgrace. Locking the flag ships of the Falkland Islands is contrary to international law of the sea” he said.
The General Assembly of the United Nations in its resolution 2065 (XX) of 1965, ratified by later resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37 / 9), 1983 (38/12) 1984 (39 / 6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25) report the existence of a sovereignty dispute. UK fails to comply with UN resolutions. Indicating discuss sovereignty. It is logical and respectable draw your attention to the UK comply with UN resolutions.
84 Raul
Jan 09th, 2012 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Problem?
We don't have a problem.
What's your problem?
Better late than never l suppose.
Jan 09th, 2012 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0l see that Lord Think has steam up & firing on all cylinders.
And is again wrong as he normally is. Why do you lie so, sr Think?
@post # 14 Think,you useless article,
lt is necessary to repeat.......
The current inhabitants of Chubut province are Argentine squatters.
They are Argentine citizens squatting on stolen native people's soil, misnamed Chubut Province by the Argentine government.
Really not much point in refuting your other ridiculous posts as the boys & girls have already done so.
Poor Thinkus Horribilus, you can't win today, can you♥
Rolly - what problem ??
Jan 09th, 2012 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rolly - what Resolution??
Got a new one ? Those you've mentioned are all DEAD !
#19 Lord Ton, UN resolution DEAD ??? you´re so funny....never in my life i hear such madness thing. funny guy :)
Jan 09th, 2012 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0OK, One good news and other bad...let´s start with the bad one.
You say in #19 “ Off the top of my head I have no idea what international laws are being broken...”
Glad to see your honesty in regard to international law which undoubtedly you do not know anything, the bad news is that the 9 followers of your blog are discovering that:
1) You're just a retired police officer living in nonsprue, Thailand.
2) Your current activity is to “teach” archery.
3) You love to go to your club called “Pirates of Pattaya” (a name which everyone agrees)
4) You've never been in LatinoAmerica.
5) You do not know at all aspects of the region or the idiosyncrasies of its people.
6) You are completely ignorant of the history of Argentina
7) Your concepts of “law” are completely distorted (still could not identify whether it is due to lack of capacity or you're just a pervert who love lying)
Ergo ... you're a fraud, an amateur fraud i must add...... because you´re almost alone in your DISTOR HISTORY crusade .
but ... the good news is ..........your book is quoted higher ! from 0.77 to 0.79 Euro !!! Congrats !!
You see my friend .. ? that's what your ideas and concepts are worth ......
http://www.iberlibro.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Lorton+Roger
Sofa
Jan 09th, 2012 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) Wrong !
2) Wrong!
3) Wrong!
4) Correct
5) Wrong - you are all brainwashed, and you can't get more idiosycratic than that!
6) Wrong! I'm fast becoming a leading expert. Getting mentioned in high places - at both ends of the Atlantic. Mostly at the lower end :-)
7) Wrong! I have an LL.B (Hon) & an M.Phil. I may yet use you for the Doctorate :-))
Wow 1 out of 7 = I suppose that's good for a Malvinista
What book ??
I'm causing problems for Argentina, whereas I only used to cause problems for the people I encountered - now that's progress :-)
please Roger .....don´t be afraid :)
Jan 09th, 2012 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 087 Lord Ton
Jan 09th, 2012 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pathetic and sad ¡!!!!!!!!
You “Little Redhoyt”
How many personalities do you have? Shameful thing.
come one Roger...be a man at least one time !
Jan 09th, 2012 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you´re 1000000% FRAUD.....LIAR
:)
On the contrary, I only tell the truth. Not my problem if Google is out of date, or talking about someone else!
Jan 09th, 2012 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I checked your link - that book is over 10 years old ... long forgotten!
Do try and keep up ... :-)
illegal is colonization, to usurp lands. peacefull defense is not illegal. we don´t want colonization , we don´t want thefts. give the land back and return to another continent!
Jan 09th, 2012 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Roger.....only you´re showing to everybody here that you can´t recognise yourself or what you´re trying to do and maybe (with reasons) you´re shamefully about write such a CRAP.
Jan 09th, 2012 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you say in #89 ”I have an LL.B (Hon) & an M.Phil”....
well, we already know that becasue you put it in your pdf.....3 January, (that fresh buddy !!).
Don´t hide your past, you´re only an ex police officer that write pathetic books last decade......or you want me to publish all your adventures in Nonsprue ? Please Roger, recognise who you are....i dont want to do it....
http://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/falklands-history1.pdf
@2 You don't understand. A British JUNIOR Roreign Office minister is two steps down from GOD. By comparison, an Argentine “president” is half a step up from sh“t.
Jan 09th, 2012 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@4 DYOR, dweeb!
@7 You are already dead. Lie down and decompose.
@11 DYOR, dozy dweeb.
@16 Do you have to practice to be a prick? Sorry, argie prick.
@22 I say ”Having your arse comprehensively kicked by the Brits must have loosened your marbles, cocksucker“
@23 Understand this. You are dead. It's a promise. Dig your own grave.
@42 Civilised? No argie could even begin to understand the meaning of the word. Not that it matters. You'll all be dead soon. Dead. Melted. Ashes.
@48 But you are sh*t. How can useless sh*t correct useful turnips?
@49 Illiterate pr*ck.
@58 HOMELESS OF BUENOS AIRES. DIG HOLES IN YOUR RUINS. Second strike will be worse.
@64 Do you think it might be time for you to learn a proper language? Time to give up Spanish jabbering.
@84 How shall we put this? Would you understand ”Die, toad”! I've told you to quit quoting these irrelevant resolutions. All future mentions will be reported as abuse.
2#excellent information-new to me
Jan 09th, 2012 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 020#joins the thread with his usual rude remarks with no contribution of his own
40#_Grow up and sod off .Briton's first contribution and also no content.
86#Poor Thinkus Horribilus, you can't win today, can you♥ Isolde's post.No contribution.
Lord ton /think/so_fa -I am enjoying you posts and the information contained in them.However,on the original article,I don't think it is unusual for a politican to exaggerate an action and it's legality of it.Iraq and the WMD and 40mins story is well known today as high level lies.So we don't need to believe politician's as authorities.This is proved again here,because there is no law being broken in this matter.The nearest we come to that is when Cameron say that the UK will never negotiate on this matter.Had said without the 'islanders' so wishing to negotiate, he would have only being re-stating what is already known.But this comment of his is not illegal and we know that from the flagrant violations of UN resolutions in Israel land occupation from the 67 war.
ElaineB-you also seem short of any contribution of any use to other and not just for your own enjoyment
Monty69 happy new year(again?)
By no means are all Argentinians so stupid as to think that because the UK is “weak” = Argentina is strong.
Jan 09th, 2012 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately, though such Argentinians exist, they are in the minority here.
The dumb ones are also dumb enough to believe that if they call someone else “bad” it automatically makes them (the dumb Argentinians) good.
This is the magical thinking of children. In this case, incredibly stupid children.
Argentina has no military that could defend anything. And what little military it has has no will to defend a country it no longer believes in.
And for the last time (though I am ready to repeat it as often as necessary)
Argentina has very little economic recovery. It's just way too corrupt.
The economic boom is due to INTERNATIONAL investment (just look at Puerta Madero! boludos!!!!!)
The Argentine government gets up every morning, look in the mirror and sees a Lion, instead of a boludo, which is what they are.
Examples:
1. Starts a trade war with China.
2. Publicly laughs at the EU's current economic crisis.
3. Thumbs it's nose at a joint complaint from Finland, Spain, Germany, England, and the USA about Argentine corruption.
4. Their stupid argument about the Falkland Islands which they simply can not defend.
As one Argentinian said to me years ago, “We hate the world and the world hates us.”
To which I replied, “The world doesn't hate you. Why? Because they world doesn't know you. THAT's why you hate it!”
The only time Argentina makes the news is when it is making an ass out of itself.
But since it feels no shame, it doesn't feel the pain, and so, never grows, or to be more precise, never grows up.
They are all talk folks. But don't think they won't jabber themselves into another humiliating experience. In fact, I don't think they are going to stop until they do. They are really that stupid - and arrogant.
Arrogance with Intelligence - Understandable.
Stupidity w Humility - Forgivable.
But Stupidity and Arrogance - Argentina!
Fascist warmongering Argentinian irredentism should be condemned by all peaceloving people!
Jan 09th, 2012 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What I find extremely funny is that since Comment 18, Think has not raised his former point that the people of the Falkland Islands do not have the right of self-determination as determined by the UN.... but it appears that Comments 17 & 21 by J.A. Roberts have proved him wrong............it is especially funny is that in Comment 11 Think gloats that people are avoiding his question.....oh the irony!
Jan 09th, 2012 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#93 Lord Ton
Jan 09th, 2012 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let´s going to do this together .... breathing exercises.
ohmm ohmm
let it flow ... let it flow.....you can !!
If there is nothing to be ashamed then you can recognize what you write or what you are doing dont you ...or you aren´t proud of your work ?
C´mon old chap.... I know it's hard for englishman to be honest but try to only once at least.
Repeat aftter me.....I (Lord Ton - RedHoyt- Filipppo, etc.) am Roger Lorton.
You see ?? was easy ...
:)
[97] the insulting child utters
Jan 09th, 2012 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0utter little child .
Lor Ton, im wondering....how you expect the people believe you if not even yourself do recognize what you've written ?
Jan 09th, 2012 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you're so ashamed ?
Fair enougsh to show to everybody the REAL nature of this englishman as well the content of their blog and articles.
Thats the truth of Roger Lorton, a 100% FRAUD and 100% LIAR.
(75) Mr. Lorton
Jan 09th, 2012 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just testing your Spanish....... and you didn,t perform that well….
Not good for a man that, by his own account (post 89), is ”fast becoming a leading expert” on Argentina.
You need to read more Redhoyt!
(77) (79) Editor UY?
Mr. G. M., I presume ?
Good ‘Out of the Box’ thinking….!
(86) Isolde
You are so transparent,…………............................................ woman.
(89) Mr. Lorton
I know you don’t lie……
When deemed necessary, you just circumvent the truth as elegantly as possible.
Mr. so_far has not much experience with the noble art of interrogation…. I can see......
He should have said:
1) You're a retired police officer living in Thailand.
2) You enjoy practicing and teaching archery.
3) You frequent the Pattaya Shooting Park, formerly known as the “Pirates of Pattaya”.
4) You've never been to Latin-America.
5) As a non Spanish speaker, your comprehension capabilities of Argentinean history are severely handicapped.
6) As a non Spanish speaker, your comprehension capabilities of many aspects of the region and the idiosyncrasies of its people are severely handicapped too.
7) Your concepts of “law” are …… well……….. quite conservative.
Chuckle chuckle©
6) I'm fast becoming a leading expert. Getting mentioned in high places - at both ends
Jan 09th, 2012 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We live in new times and what people do with their time is,generally speaking,their business.These days,subject to having the funds and unlimited access to the Internet one can become much better informed about the things that one is interested in.You can visit sites with information about the subject you are interested in,cut and paste relevant passages on to your own website,or Facebook,and then make claims such as the one at the start of this post.What wrong with that if it makes you happy.No one has to acknowledge a source if they don't want to or how factual this information is.
Which is why Wikipedia is only a reference point rather than academic quality information.There is no reflection in cut and paste to any understanding.But to claim to be well informed is somewhat presumptuous for someone to make of their own knowledge.How long is a piece of string.
And as has been point out,to only get your information in a language foreign to the language of the other country,and not be heavily biased,seriously constrains your knowledge But to not realise this and to claim to'fast becoming an expert',reveals a serious lack of maturity and a lack of judgement.It in fact makes your effort a personal matter and your opinion almost worthless .
Have a pleasant evening,hear from you tomorrow Lordton
What's that grey thing on his forehead? A radio transmitter?
Jan 09th, 2012 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0thats where the old eye piece was .
Jan 09th, 2012 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 107 Why not replacing him with a new robot? He looks wasted, like he's a really old model, isn't he?
Jan 09th, 2012 - 10:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Looks are not always what it seems,
Jan 09th, 2012 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apparently he is a very clever man,
They know what they are doing ? .
.
Think -
Jan 09th, 2012 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) Correct
2) Wrong - check your dates, I haven't picked a bow (the Hoyt) up in 2 years. Young man's sport and the shoulder ain't as good as it used to be.
3) Wrong - for the same reasons
4) Correct
5) Wrong - please indicate where my history is deficient. (Zonamilitar hasn't managed it soFar :-)
6) Quite possibly - you are indeed a strange bunch!
7) Correct - the law is, by it's very nature, conservative
3.5 out of 7 makes Think the thinking man's Argentine :-)
:) 100% Fraud....100% Liar......100% English.....nobody expect another thing Mr Lorton, is ok.
Jan 09th, 2012 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for the info....
Jan 09th, 2012 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now I have 7 out of 7 correct + some loose change.... ;-)
Sorry to hear about your shoulder lad.
Keep the spirit.......
You're getting old Think - there was a piece of information you had a while back that you seem to have forgotten. Doesn't help your answers to 5) and 6).
Jan 09th, 2012 - 11:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I only use translation software for the unimportant stuff!
C'mon Think - use that grey matter before it packs up totally :-)
Sofa = 100% idiota
Yuk - you'll know more when Think remembers :-)
Roger.....did you see the movie “The Chronicles of Narnia”?
Jan 10th, 2012 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm thinking of publishing “The Chronicles of Nongprue” .... what do you think?
p.s...i prefer be 100 % idiot than 100% LIAR
:)
Sounds like a work of fiction SoFa, but at least you've spelt Nongprue correctly. ( Whether I still live there is a different question :-) I only deal with FACTS!
Jan 10th, 2012 - 12:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Taking your time Think ? The answer is actually in two parts, but the first should be a doddle :-)
I think the UK is getting ready to knock a few Argie boats out of the water.
Jan 10th, 2012 - 01:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0#52 the only island british belong is in britain and we all know who runs the colony, and none of them are even born there. to be honest I don't even know or care who this ilegal aliens are but they sure don't belong there if they are causing this much trouble, in Australia they will burn your boat if you theft as little as three kilograms of fish, civilized nations really know how to treat thieves. “The Indonesian boat was carrying just six crew members, three kilograms of fish, and longlines with freshly-baited hooks. When it was first sighted by the surveillance plane, it looked to be carrying much more fish than the three kilograms it was found with. Between July 2007 and July 2008, 186 boats were apprehended, 141 of these were Indonesian-owned boats. The entire crews were arrested and transferred to immigration detention centres, their boats towed to the nearest port - most often Darwin - and burnt.”
Jan 10th, 2012 - 02:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina should be taking notes and get the UN on board as Australia did, the real world looks a lot more convenient for nations wanting to civilize themselves. www.abc.net.au/environment/articles/2011/12/13/3389001.htm
Quite correct Prat - we do indeed know how to treat thieves, so you would be best advised to stay out of Falklands waters.
Jan 10th, 2012 - 02:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mind you, I seem to recall that Argentina machine-guns fishing boats!
Argentina's idea of fair play perhaps ??
Who in the hell is Roger Lorton?
Jan 10th, 2012 - 03:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Rotted, do you know anything about it? :-))
MoreCrap - I know him well.
Jan 10th, 2012 - 03:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0He's produced evidence of Argentina's lies to the UN. Evidence that Argentina never had a claim to the Falkland Islands.
He's getting to be well known. Has been since early December, but then some people are just too thick to notice!
Things are changing - don't you know :-)
Of course you know him well little devil Roger Redhoyt...
Jan 10th, 2012 - 05:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nice portrait Lorton :-)
http://falklandia.com/YForum/YaBB.pl?num=1314574606/25
@121Marcos,
Jan 10th, 2012 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0So what, do you expect a medal from cfk because you think that you have discovered the identity of a poster on this forum?
The man had already told you some of his background, it's irrelevent.
@104Think,
l have been called worse than that! You're slipping..............squatter.
Dear Roger, as you know the market is handled on the basis of trust ...... I think your behavior from the day yesterday in which you deny the undeniable, your credibility has been diminished ....
Jan 10th, 2012 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You book low back to 0.78 Euro ....Sorry pal
Try to be honest next time.
:)
http://www.iberlibro.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Lorton+Roger
SoFa - I am always honest. In what way do you question me? I actually had 3 books published a long time ago. Nothing very amazing, but as being a star of stage and screen eludes me, I thought I should do something :-)
Jan 10th, 2012 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What have I denied that is undeniable ?
Argentina denies that the Falkland Islanders have the right to self determination. That is undeniable, but Argentina denies it anyway.
Argentina denies that the British have a right to Islands that they have been involved with since 1690. That is undeniable, but Argentina denies it anyway.
Argentina denies that the Falklanders have a right to choose. That also is undeniable, but Argentina denies it anyway.
So what have I denied, that compromises trust ??
What have I denied that compromises credibility??
What credibility do you have ??
122# your attempt to defend your countryman is the action of a fool.Identifying the person isn't the significant fact.(and he claims to deal in facts)(that's an interesting word-fact-don't you think).What is significant is his confidence that he knows the facts and that any other bit of information is irrelevant.You know the posture-“if he doesn't know it it's not worth knowing”.I bet he has little knowledge of feminist politics.The other thing you are supporting is that,someone who has been collecting facts since dec 2011, is an authority on the matter.That says a lot about your ability to produce comments of substance.Do you think there is a UN resolution that that body recognises as in place,that says the UK and Argentina must negotiate on the Malvinas issue.I don't mean like your countryman/woman,thinks should have been forfeited since 82.
Jan 10th, 2012 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Roger .... everybody here know that you´re 100000 % LIAR
Jan 10th, 2012 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That´s a FACT.
About the rest, DYOR (honest DYOR)
Questions too hard for you SoFa ??
Jan 10th, 2012 - 03:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let's try someting easier, shall we ??
“How .... many ..... fingers ..... am .... I .... holding .... up” ??
Roger, maybe this phrases could help to understand the concept about you.....because i need to admit that you´re not a vulgar liar......rather a sophisticated one.
Jan 10th, 2012 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) Half the Truth is often a great Lie – Benjamin Franklin
2) Half the truth can be worse than a straight lie - H. Howard
3) What worries me is that you lied to me, but, from now on, I can not believe in you – Nietzsche
4) There is no greater lie than truth misunderstood - William James
5) The most common lie is that with which a man deceives himself. Deceiving others is a relatively futile default. Nietzsche
6) From time to time tell the truth so that you create when you lie. - Jules Renard
7) The punishment of the liar is not believed even when telling the truth – Aristotle
8) No lie more damaging than the truth in disguise - Tamayo & Baus
122 lsolde
Jan 10th, 2012 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No medal for me Mrs Guinea, the medal is for Mr so_far, he uncovered the face of the liar archer.
Rotted
Pirates of Pattaya shooting club’s ?? Hahahaha, great name!
“Most of the facts in this history I obtained free of charge from the internet”
Roger Lorton
No wonder :-)
Sofa:
Jan 10th, 2012 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ignorance is bliss....you must be a very happy man.
Crackpot nobody is happy while people occupy the Malvinas and refuse to recognise the weight of opposition globally.That stance of the UK is arrogant and is the colonial mentality still there.Mental thoughts are best when they correspond to reality.Isolde is trying to do that in poetry I believe.
Jan 10th, 2012 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0# 130 Cracky boy
Jan 10th, 2012 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No just me....complete international comunity of civilized people that don´t enjoy the war, will be very happy when the squatters invaders go home back to UK where they belong and acting with dignity returning back Malvinas to Argentina, their LEGAL owners.
Until that moment nobody could be happy in this region peacefully with people of good willn......Latin America, which have a colonial dagger stuck in their backyard since 1833.
@132 “No just me...”
Jan 10th, 2012 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lol!
well, is not funny budy....40 millons of Argentinean plus 500 millons of Latin Americans don´t want you here....so, nothing to LOL
Jan 10th, 2012 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:)
I'm very new to this, (I'm neither British or Argentine) but does anyone think the UK will EVER abandon 3,000 people? I'm sure that Argentina would never abandon thousands of citizens or force them to move from their homes.
Jan 10th, 2012 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure there are arguments for each side but in reality (if you assume the Brits won't abandon their people) this is about either money or politics. (Unless you are willing to again go to war) Either the politicians are after the oil money, or looking for an issue to get votes.
If it's about money the British may be able to cut some kind of deal but if it's only about getting votes then the Brits are wasting their time even talking because any smart Argintinian politician doesn't want to win. If they did win, the issue (& their voters) would go away!
Have a great day!
@134 Sofa: “well, is not funny budy....40 millons of Argentinean plus 500 millons of Latin Americans don´t want you here....”
Jan 10th, 2012 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Most of them really couldn't give a monkeys, and I don't care what they think anyway.
I only care about what the only relevant people think - the actual people who live in the FI and the families who have called it home for many generations. And what they think is: UK GOOD, Argentina BAD.
I watched the “The Islanders' War” on the History Channel a couple of nights ago. You should watch it too. Then, you might appreciate why they feel this way. Many of them risked their lives to defeat the Argentinian invasion. That strength of feeling doesn't go away in a hurry.
“I only care about what the only relevant people think - the actual people who live in the FI ................And what they think is: UK GOOD, Argentina BAD.”
Jan 10th, 2012 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Al right, no problem Argentina and everybody will respect what they think....go back to UK GOOD. hasta la vista baby
:)
@137 Sofa: “Al right, no problem Argentina and everybody will respect what they think....”
Jan 10th, 2012 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Finally, something sensible. So, the status quo will prevail then.
REFERENCE: 134 so_far (#)
Jan 10th, 2012 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jan 10th, 2012 - 05:58 pm
....40 millons of Argentinean plus 500 millons of Latin Americans ....
PLEASE NOTE THAT Sr. ”134 so_far (#)“ ONLY SPEAKS FOR HIMSELF; SOME POLITICIANS; AND SOME SUPPORTERS. NOT 500 MILLION LATIN AMERICANS, (MOST OF WHOM WISH THAT MANY IN ARGENTINA WOULD GO AND LIVE WITH CHAVEZ IN VENEZUELA, WHO IS THE MAJOR DISRUPTIVE ELEMENT IN LATIN AMERICA WITH HIS SUPPRESSION OF FREEDOMS; DICTATORIAL CONDUCT; DRUG DEALING ADMINISTRATION; AND CORRUPTION OF HIS POLITICAL ”PARTNERS“ IN OTHER LATIN COUNTRIES, WHOM CHAVEZ ”PURCHASED” BY FINANCING THEIR POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS)
# 139 Editor UY (#)
Jan 10th, 2012 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you see the statments of MERCOSUR, UNSAUR, OAS, RIO Group, CELAC, etc ??
That´s im talking about when i put “40 millons of Argentinean plus 500 millons of Latin Americans ”
Everybody knows that organizations represent EXACTLY what i wrote.
140 so_far
Jan 10th, 2012 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you are claiming that these 540M people ALL agree with the politicos of these derelict organizations?
If you really think that, then all I can say is you must be delusional to the point of of be insane. Even if only one in ten do not agree, and I would bet it's far more than that, then 54M DO NOT AGREE.
Sorry to burst the bubble in your head.
Do people not realise that in a democracy when the representatives of a country speak and make commitments,they do it on behalf of the population of that country.Do if the countries of a continent say they support Argentina's claim,it is the whole population of the continent.And for Cameron to dismiss the idea of negotiating on the issue,the snub is that great!
Jan 10th, 2012 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Furthermore 1.4billion Chinese support Argentina on this issue.Just that makes nearly 2bn.That's how out if touch Cameron is,or is USA to get more off the UK for it to back them.Very foolish statement!
140 so_far
Jan 10th, 2012 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So_far excellent response. You really have talent paw understand the historical and social processes in development. An equation that few dare to be developed.
# Raul, i do pray for these people in UK, so they can understand too the process incoming and how the near future will be.
Jan 10th, 2012 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Glod bless LatAM.....Amén.
Fact and theory
Jan 10th, 2012 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When the leaders or representatives of people or nations speak, they are supposed to represent the feelings and opinion of the people, that put them in power,
[That is theory ]
]
Sadly
The truth is a lot worse, most leaders and even more politicians are only their to serve their own egos, and greed, plus any delusions of [im the boss]
A lot of leaders today, make decision that do NOT reflect the opinions of the people, only of their party or governments,
Time and time again against the peoples wishes they sign away rights and opinions without consent,
They get voted into office looking like humans, and end up like robots.
And that’s a fact .
.
#145 “ The truth is a lot worse, most leaders and even more politicians are only their to serve their own egos, and greed, plus any delusions of [im the boss]
Jan 10th, 2012 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A lot of leaders today, make decision that do NOT reflect the opinions of the people, only of their party or governments,
Time and time again against the peoples wishes they sign away rights and opinions without consent,
They get voted into office looking like humans, and end up like robots.
And that’s a fact .”
That is also applicable to brit politicians.......
#142 Gracias Yuleno for your response, 100% correct but i doubt Mr ChrisR could figure out how REAL democracy works....remember they´re still in anachronistic monarchy system and outdated in this modern age.
Jan 10th, 2012 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@147 So far, nothing but BS: “i doubt Mr ChrisR could figure out how REAL democracy works....remember they´re still in anachronistic monarchy system and outdated in this modern age.”
Jan 10th, 2012 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 025 of the world's countries are considered to be “full democracies”. The UK is one of them (along with 8 other constitutional monarchies). It is ranked at 18 in the worldwide democracy index right next to Uruguay at 17 and the US at 19. Argentina does not even make the top 50 - it is considered to be a “flawed democracy” and ranks at 51. Is that your definition of REAL?
@131Yuleno,
Jan 10th, 2012 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who are you today? How's your Amritsar research going?
@142Yuleno,
1.4 billion Chinese support Argentina's ridiculous“claims”!
Are you sure about that, Yuleno? All 1.4billion of them? Good golly miss molly!
You are as stupid as so_far, with his 540 million supporting Argentina.
Have either of you heroes asked all these people?
With people like you, we have nothing to fear!
bla bla.....
Jan 10th, 2012 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Im a citizen of a Republic with REAL Democracy.........you Cracky boy are a subjects of a kingdom (King, Queen, etc.) .... please continue paying your taxes for the royal wedding.
please
About the ranking of Democracy...who made ir ? Lord Ton ??
:)
Lor Ton is busy being himself at Pirates of Pattaya.
Jan 10th, 2012 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:)
Jan 10th, 2012 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0a bit late but....Buen año Marcos,
Isolde 149
Jan 10th, 2012 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do you always insult and belittle people with statehood, think of a better world as so_far or Yulene?
So much it costs you comprehend and understand a little, you insult and despise everything you do not know and who think differently from you?
With people like you, we have nothing to fear
Leave reactionary responses and hatred and resentment towards everything that is Argentine and Latin American.
Why are you afraid to have frank and honest? It is not fear or deal with violence. It tries to understand but you do not agree with his thinking.
You really need a lot of democratic practice.
Thinking differently is the most normal thing in democracy and freedom.
In this forum there are people who think like you and yet are able to write their views and yours with you. Vehemently earnest and front itself. I find it interesting to hear but also listen to demás.Los surely not going to write the story that their voices are heard and that they are weaker. They are saying something important to be heard and not being heard.
Thank you.
@ 152:
Jan 10th, 2012 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Better to be citizen of a kingdom that is a full democracy than a republic that is a flawed democracy.
Please continue paying your taxes to line your politician pockets.
At least we got a party out of the royal wedding (and they were welcome to the £1 that it cost me). It also brought £2 billion into the economy.
What do you get out of paying for the extravagent lifestyles of your corrupt politicians? Nothing - you just get fewer services. I'm sure they appreciate you paying their tailor's bills, though.
p.s. the Democracy Ranking Association is an independent body based in Vienna, Austria.
152 so_far Thank you e igualmente.
Jan 10th, 2012 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So the like of Chris. R, // Crackpot // lsolde Briton,
Jan 10th, 2012 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the rest are all fools and have no idea of what a democracy is,
Argentines stating the British don’t live in a democracy and demonising our royals,
You just could not make it up, could you,
The world is laughing at you, but you are so blind, you can’t even see,
You think every word or inclusion from the likes of Chavez or china is a victory,
But never once question if you are the fools,
To say we are not a democracy, is not only very stupid but it insults your own country,
But then again, your used to that, are you not,
.
@153Raul,
Jan 10th, 2012 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 01)Your country insults us at every turn.
2)You are trying to steal our country.
3)Malvinistas repeatedly call us squatters, thieves , pirates or worse.
4)Many of your countrymen want to kill or deport us. they have said so.
5)Your country has a blockade on OUR lslands which you Argentines fully support.
6)You malvinistas keep calling us“implanted” & say that we have no rights.
7)You accuse us of “stealing” our own resources.
8)Malvinistas keep posting links to things past that happened in the British Empire, that somehow prove(to Argentine minds)that we have no right here.
And you have the gall to complain that l “belittle” you etc.
What do you expect? That l should be grateful to you! ha!
l despise you malvinistas as a lying, back-stabbing, untrustworthy shower of moronic idiots, who would sell their own mother for a few pesos.
Hope l have answered your question.
157 lsolde
Jan 10th, 2012 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You are trying to steal our country”
Which one? England or Guinea?
157 lsolde
Jan 10th, 2012 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) Your country insult us at every turn.
Not true, always being called to join our country.
2) You are trying to steal our country.
On the contrary, they stole in 1833.
3) Falkland repeatedly call us squatters, thieves, pirates, or worse.
Unfortunately it is true, for my part I apologize for the insults made by those Argentines.
4) Many of his compatriots want to kill or deport us. you said it.
It is the tiny minority or low. You know that most Argentines do not want their evils. Remember that Argentina had four English invasion. (1806-1807-1833 and “Return of bound November 20, 1845”
5) The country has a lock on our islands from the Argentine fully.
Coercion peaceful and Latin American solidarity. They do not respect the UN resolutions: 2065 (XX) of 1965, ratified by later resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37 / 9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 ( 39 / 6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25).
6) You keep calling malvinas “implanted” and say we have no rights.
I'm not the Falklands. They have all rights except those in self-determination. The claim is of strict historical justice colonialism and imperialism. Argentina in 1833 and was expelled from there and not allowed to return.
7) We are accused of 'stealing' own resources.
True, natural resources prey as they do in Iraq, Libya, Africa and Afghanistan with oil ...
8) Falkland keep posting links to past things that happened in the British Empire, that somehow prove (to the Argentine minds) that we have here ..
Unfortunately you can not forget 500 years of colonialist and imperialist history. Not all Argentines Falklands. Demand strict justice.
And has the gall to complain that I “despise” a, etc.
Leave the hatred and bitterness. It is true they have a point in the dispute, but you also have to recognize that the Argentines have rights over the islands. Propose a solution that, according to British and Argentines.
Thank you.
#128 - just as well I've told the truth then SoFa - and ALL the truth.
Jan 10th, 2012 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bit of a rush this morning - catch you all later.
Remember Malvinas no son Argentinas :-)
if they are pirates, as you state, why not report them to the UN and have them arrested,
Jan 10th, 2012 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or
As more truthfully
You are the real [pirates,]
You should walk the plank of shame.
Isolde. You are getting a bit careless with your posting.
Jan 10th, 2012 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do all the people of Britain accept that wages should be cut,that Scotland ahogos have independance,that Northern ireland is british,that unemployment should be so high,that youth unemployment is a price worth paying etc.No of course not but the way affairs are conducted mean that if they are members of the UN,all the population is in the UN.Now will you reconsider your remarks about China,their support for Argentina in the Malvinas dispute,and your assertion that So_fa and myself are stupid.You need to be far more careful with your language if you want respect.So which is it.Apologies on more of the hatred which is blinding you to common humanity and decency.
Rolly -
Jan 11th, 2012 - 03:13 am - Link - Report abuse 01) Why on earth would they want to join you
2) On the contrary, you tried to steal it in 1832
3) Mestivier was a squatter, Jewett was a pirate, Vernet was a car salesman, and you can never trust a car salesman :-)
4) remember the Falklands had 3 invasions - 1771, 1832 and 1982
5) RIP all those long dead Resolutions.
6) Mestivier tried to 'implant' a population but his implants were properly requested to leave in 1833. It would have been worse if they were French implants apparently - they leak!
7) the UN fully protects the Falklanders rights to utilise their own resources, and opposes attempts by States such as Argentina to steal the Islander's resources.
8) Argentina will get justice - somehow I don't think Argentina will like it. History and international law favour the Islanders. Let justice be done !
What goes around, comes around Rolly, including hate and bitterness. Argentina can do nothing but lose. That she deserves!!
White coat anyone ? Im worry for Mr Lorton
Jan 11th, 2012 - 03:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0163 Rotted “Why on earth would they want to join you”
Jan 11th, 2012 - 03:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good question, they are descendents of invaders and occupiers - nothing more - who find it convenient to hide behind a once mighty British empire and expect them to come running with guns and battleships the minute they don't like something. They need to grow up first if they want to join Argentina and stop hiding under their mommy skirt like little girls.
By the way Red, James Peck did it a few months ago.
Ahh - SoFa, MoreCrap, the Marvs, Kippers and Rolly - Argentina's answer to an intelligentsia !
Jan 11th, 2012 - 03:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0How can the Islanders' resist joining you ??
:-)
They should join your favorite club instead Pirates of Pattaya :-)
Jan 11th, 2012 - 04:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0In order to introduce some non-fiction into the debate with respect to China ..... no self-respecting person with a semblance of intelligence would believe that China has any interest in Latin America other than to secure natural resources for its internal consumption, and markets for its exports. China could care less about the pathetic words and actions of many of the Latin politicians, and even less about the inane drivel spouted by some of these politicians' supporters, (some of whom are contributors of these posted comments.)
Jan 11th, 2012 - 04:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why don't you use your time seeking practical solutions rather than trying to create more problems?
Practical solutions....ok
Jan 11th, 2012 - 04:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Both countries must sit down for negotiate a fair agreement in mutual benefit.
Thats EXACLY Argentina, Latin-America and UN Resolutions (more than 10 of them) are requesting........Argentina is ready with good will and UK ?
There is nothing to discuss !
Jan 11th, 2012 - 07:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0@169 So - what's wrong with the UN?
Jan 11th, 2012 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0#171
Jan 11th, 2012 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0UK is a permanent member of SC at UN, thats wrong, but many important countries are working on fix that situation
Soon with new strong players in SC everything will change.
This thread has been very productive for establishing British methods of persuasion.The legal authority for them has revealed his method.
Jan 11th, 2012 - 11:52 am - Link - Report abuse 01/get on the Internet on the subject in hand
2/find so details that support your point of view(which at this point is not researched
3/put it on Facebook under a different name to make it look like it genuine.
4/speak or write with confidence that the others are not as smart as you.
5/get offensive if your position is being threatened.
6/use violence if all else fails
What happen after the bold statement you made
-As for the concept of International Law. Almost excluively founded on norms and Treaties. I have no idea what the exact words Bellingham used, but he was probably referring to the norm of free passage.
Now here lordton has not been able to find how he can be correct on this matter,despite spending much time trawling the net,to do so.So he guess what Bellingham was referring to(the norm of free passage) and that is meant to be ok.Well unfortunately because of your posturing,it is not.Hence you don't return to the matter.So170#,unfortunately you are wrong,there is much to discuss.
168#china cares as much about Argentina as the UK cares about Uruquay.However the UK and USA fear China as the basing of yanqui military in Australia indicates.If you are going to deal in non-Fiction please make it balanced.There's already enough pommy bias.thanks
172 so_far
Jan 11th, 2012 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please name these mythical 'important countries' who are working to throw the UK off the UN Security Council.
BUT, if any of them are LatAm countries, don't bother, they will never manage it.
Yuk - no idea what you are going on about. The international law question seems to have been answered above! Argentina appears to be in breach of UN Resolutions - no surprise there !!
Jan 11th, 2012 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0White coat please.....im truly worry for Mr Lorton
Jan 11th, 2012 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't worry little SoFa ... it'll all work itself out. Argentina will get nothing of course, but that's what happens when you lie to your children.
Jan 11th, 2012 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Consequences .... there are always consequences !
yes Lorton, pigs do fly.....PORK PIE SHORT OF A PICNIC, IF YOU ASK ME.
Jan 11th, 2012 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:)
Lordton does 'appear' mean you think,as in the remark-Appears to be in breach.Also,the word 'seem' as in -seems to have been answered.
Jan 11th, 2012 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you do not understand what I'm on about,why are you guessing.
I'll tell you the answers to these points.
1/ appears they are not in breach but you feel that's how it should be view.
2/ seems - it is not answered but you want to move on,but the real answer is you were wrong,and no international law has been broken.Would not most of SA be transgressing if it was true.Don't make up interpretation of statements of others.You're not in the police now.
3/ if you don't understand what I'm on about,read my posts and point out to me what you don't understand and I will clarify if possible.
But just to repeat,Argentina has not contravened international law in the case that this article refers to.But the statement as it stands is disinformation.
# 179, Mr Yuleno,
Jan 11th, 2012 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have a good power of interpretation, 100 % agree with your responses.
This LIAR archer is hurting only their fellow countrymen writing lies upon lies and avoiding compromising situations.
I feel sad for those ignorants that perhaps he could fool.....
it depends on how interpret things, if you think he gets 100%
Jan 11th, 2012 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Then that’s one interpretation, but as this blogg has other people other than argentine, then 100% is impossible,
But alas 100% of nothing,
Is nothing of interest is it .
Just 50% true .
181 Briton
Jan 11th, 2012 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Seems like he whose name we do not mention is back to the usual defence of the indefencible. He will never learn. Standby for another round of personal abuse!
agreed
Jan 11th, 2012 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yuk - the UN Charter is a unilateral Treaty. It is legally enforceable in international law. Argentina is in breach of Article 74.
Jan 12th, 2012 - 01:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Easy - isn't it ?
That Article 74 argument is hog-wash. As long as Argentina doesn't harrass ships going and coming from non-Argentine ports, Argentina can do what it wants with it's own ports. UN law does not trump sovereing law. If that is the argument, so much for the “self-determination” Brits so claim to respect.
Jan 12th, 2012 - 02:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0UN laws that are international treaties, properly signed, do indeed trump sovereign laws. The UN Charter is just such a Treaty. When Argentina signed up it agreed to comply. Its failure to do so is therefore a breach of international law.
Jan 12th, 2012 - 02:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Islanders right to self-determination is part of the same Treaty.
An excellent argument then :-)
No getting away from that :-)
There is nothing in the UN that says a sovereign nation can't do exactly that if it's self-defense is at steak. Lord, I have a friend who knows law, if there is self-defense then there is no breach of the treaty. It may be a ultraspecious argument in this case, but it can be made.
Jan 12th, 2012 - 03:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Self-defense and self-determination ALWAYS trump treaties, that is common geopolitical practice.
The US does not allow Iranian ships, or viceversa, to dock. Are they UN deadbeats?
@158 Marcos,
Jan 12th, 2012 - 03:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do you know the difference between Guinea & New Guinea?
Apart from malvinista lies, didn't they teach you ANYTHING in school?
@165 Marcos,
Yes & we've got plenty of guns & battleships, how about you?
@159Raul,
1)your country insults us continually by the lies that plonkers like Arguello etc spread internationaly.
2)you have NEVER owned the Falklands, so how could we “steal”it?
3)Accepted from just you.
4)so-called “invasions” have NOTHING to do with the current situation.
Unless of course you are motivated by revenge.
After what you did to your own citizens in the dirty war, we are convinced that it would eventually happen here if you ever took control.
5)Coercion is coercion. so you admit trying to force us to do something that we don't want to do? Thank you for your honesty!
6)they were NOT expelled & you know it.
The blood of the so-called “expelled”population runs in the veins of the present Falkland lslanders.
Easily checked but none of you will do this. Perhaps you wouldn't like what you would find?
7)lraq,Libya,Africa etc have nothing to do with the Falklands. Why bring it up?
8)your ancestors, Spanish or ltalian did far worse than anything the British did.
As for hatred & bitterness.-l'm not bitter at all.
Yes, we hate you to varying degrees, but guess what?
You brought it all on yourselves.
Finally, you Argentines keep blithering on about your “right”.
Despite all you have been taught, you have absolutely NO RIGHTS in the Falklands. Hope this helps♥
Toby - quite correct, nothing in there about defence, which is why we are able to defend OUR islands.
Jan 12th, 2012 - 05:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0And correct again - self-determination is the winner!
The Islanders have that already.
british illegal aliens have the right to self determination in uk if uk allows them, I think in usa they still deport illegal aliens and in Australia they will burn your boat for stealing as little as 6 kg of fish, justice for this pirats is long over due.
Jan 12th, 2012 - 05:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well, then we agree my friend is right, if Argentina deems Falkland Island flag ships a threat to it's self (it may border on the ridiculous, but assuming this), then they can turn them back and there is no treaty violations. So in fact the UN does not trump fundamental sovereingty like you suggested at first.
Jan 12th, 2012 - 07:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Still in breach of Article 74 !
Jan 12th, 2012 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0And it was, after all, the Charter that internationalized the concept of self-determination :-)
@162Yuleno,
Jan 12th, 2012 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0l do not care anything about your respect or not for me.
l will make as many remarks & observations as l please & you will not stop me.
l do believe from your remarks that you & so_far are, in fact, stupid.
So what is wrong with observing it? lf you don't like it, then stop posting stupid things.
You, yourself called me a “pure idiot” What would you like?, one law for you & another law for someone else. Argentine arrogance?
@176 so_far,
don't hurt yourself, it's alright. lets adjust your padded jacket.
yes please, so_far, just which are these countries that are trying to get the UK “thrown out” of the Security Council?
l can only think of probably one, let me guess? Argentina?
is very disconcerting, poor people must have a very strong personality conflict. they don´t want to live in Argentina but live in Argentina. they pretend to be British, or to be like the British, but they aren´t. they are nothing, so sad.
Jan 12th, 2012 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0188 lsolde Can you teach me?... better not, you are so confused that you don't know that you live in Argentina, South America.
Jan 12th, 2012 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I remember a wonderful drawing published during 1982, (the year that Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands....).....
Jan 12th, 2012 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The drawing depicted a very large conference table, seated principally by the high-ranking, and ornately uniformed and decorated, Argentine military Junta. Also seated at the table are just two pathetic-looking indians dressed in their traditional tribal robes.
The Chief of the Military Junta states, “Give us back the Malvinas.”
The Indian tribal representative says, “Give us back Argentina.”
I suggest to the Argentine politicians that “Those that live in glass houses, should not throw stones.”
I suggest to the Uruguayan politicians, “Be careful! The Argentine government might think that it will be easier to claim Uruguay.....” (Do we Uruguayans want to be an Argentine national? No thank you!)
@Lord
Jan 12th, 2012 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just because you write it here “Breach of article 74”, does not mean it is so in the real world. In the real world, what applies to one nation, applies to the other. No double standards, like you evince with Argentina.
@Editor
You live in a country that wiped out the indians, so you are are throwing stones to those living in a glass house from... your glass house? ;)
Re: 197 tobias
Jan 12th, 2012 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think it was the Spanish that started “ethnic cleaning” in Uruguay ..... as they did where ever they landed! Anyway, you went off subject!
UY, well you raised the point so I didn't go off the subject :) I was just replying to statement that I thought was not unique to Argentina (indian land grabs), and painting it so was unfair.
Jan 12th, 2012 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I sometimes wonder if forums like this are helpful to understanding long-term. Debate and exchange, even between adversaries, is always good, but this forum attracts mostly extremely biased people from both sides of the coin, and here they find in the commentary (not facts, commentary 95% of it) of like-minded fellows reinforcement to those bias. Eventually, if you stay around long enough, it becomes a sort of pseudo-alternate reality, where the lies and bigotry (on both sides), become reality and the people and opinions of the real world become and appear soft and uninformed by comparison.
A bit like drowning yout home in lavender scent at all times and then not smelling the cleanliness of your dry-cleaned clothes anymore.
I've seen this occur in another forum, between two other nationalites.
199 tobias
Jan 12th, 2012 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem is hypocritical double Dutch standards,
The Falklands are ours,
[][But we ban, them from our ports as they are a danger to our self-defence,[][
Now read that back, and imagine that you are on the UN committee
Now we think you might just might understand the laughing stock one makes on ones self .
,
.
briton
Jan 12th, 2012 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You obviously flood your house with lavender. Anyone with any sense would see that I was postulating and not stating a belief. The point is not to defend the measure's own morality or worth, but the cold and hard right of Argentina to implement.
Yes, the Falklands are “yours”.
What does that have to do with Argentina's ports? Are they yours too?
(116) Tobias
Jan 12th, 2012 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your posts are of superior quality………………….. clever and witty.
Wish I could say the same about most of your opponents.
Next time, try to pick some of your own size ;-)
Respetuosamente
El Think
Chubut, Argentina
@202Think,
Jan 12th, 2012 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes l agree. And l wish that l could say the same about most of his countrymen.
The vast majority(of your countrymen) are not up to his standard.
201 tobias
Jan 12th, 2012 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0your ports are your ports
our ports are our ports,
and yes, the falklands are british
thank you .
Scotland are free! Great Scotland!
Jan 12th, 2012 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0no they are not,,,fool
Jan 12th, 2012 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0135 CycloneSteve writes “any smart Argintinian politician doesn't want to win.”
Jan 12th, 2012 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly.
The Falklands/Malvinas question is pulled out of the drawer, the mothballs removed, and the question waved in front of Argentinos every time Argentina has or is nearing a serious crisis.
“Hey folks, look the other way, look at the Malvinas!” - and the Argentinos ignore the real problems and shout “Malvinas! Malvinas!” in order to forget their real problems.
If Great Britain wanted to really harm Argentina, they would hand the Falklands Islands to Argentina - causing Argentine politicians a loss of the best “look the other way” bone of contention and risk that the Argentinos stopped ignoring the real problems.
@207 St.John,
Jan 13th, 2012 - 04:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0l thought of that too, but the price is too dear.
Also can you imagine the Argentine crowing that would last at least a generation?
lf it happened l'd say Uruguay would be next.
208: “lf it happened l'd say Uruguay would be next.”
Jan 13th, 2012 - 06:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ah! You agree with me!
@205 - stupid comment. We'll have to see what Scotland does in the referendum. I think that they won't go for independence.
Jan 13th, 2012 - 07:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 195 and 194 - Equally stupid. That might be what you think in your own little universe (puts white coat on, I actually wear one in my job anyway...) but the reality on the ground is that the Union Flag still flies over Port Stanley and I don't see you lot hauling it down anytime soon. So the Falklands are not yours. We don't recognise your imagniary authority.
As to the flag issue - its' rather a case of a paper blockade with no real teeth - just requiring FI ships to change flags to the red duster on entering port. It is a symbolic insult, however. I am more concerened about the refusal of those nation to allow RN vessels to dock, or RAF planes to land - sooner or later somenne will probably die as a result of this policy, for example if an RAF plane can't land on the islands and has to ditch in the sea as a result. Do you see that helping your cause?
Think About this quote...
Jan 13th, 2012 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It's funny, thousands of miles from England trying to preserve a nationalism that does not even exist in the land of our ancestors, he says.” And when one is traveling island with reality: the British do not really know who we are or where we are. A came to congratulate me so surprised by my good English. “I feel a proper place, not England. I have no nationalist sentiments, in any case, yes I am moved by the landscape of the islands to be there, alone in the end of the world, is a unique sensation.”
James Peck,
full text (spanish):
www.lanacion.com.ar/170349-james-peck-un-pintor-de-malvinas-a-buenos-aires
Or this one,
Jan 13th, 2012 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If it were not for you we would still be alive today,
And still you never learn,
For if you do not stop what you are doing,
Then others are sure to follow.
.
you can lose your job or be censored without explanation if you speak out against the falklands government, this is an example
Jan 13th, 2012 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0About Falkland Freedom...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=b04LxdCUZbk
Chile conquered part of Bolivia and a large part of Southern Peru in the War of the Pacific 1879-83.
Jan 13th, 2012 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This makes Chile's support for Argentina pretty toxic, as both Peru and Bolivia disputes the conquested areas.
If not before, then GB conquered the Falklands in a war with Argentina in 1982.
Argentina conquered a large part of Gran Chaco from Paraguay in 1868 during the Triple Alliance War, Argentina also conquered Patagonia in the 1878-79 genocide (Julio Argentina Roca - “El assassino”). Further back in time Argentina itself was conquered from Spain - will Argentina hand it all back or do Argentinos have a biased view?
I was going to post this earlier, but got roped into east enders, [Simons back]
Jan 13th, 2012 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but hey look at this, 4 little films on the building of the British carriers,
Its very good, and only last abt 10-mins
http://www.aircraftcarrieralliance.co.uk/media/video-library.aspx
just click play,
comments please .
.
215 Briton
Jan 13th, 2012 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wouldn't want to get the turbines out!
Makes it look all so easy, you wonder where the money goes! :o)
Trouble is, as a professional engineer, I know where the damn money goes (and there is never enough).
Good little animation shorts though.
the two carriers together look impressive,
Jan 13th, 2012 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0i just hope they not only use both,
but get them out sooner than expected,
i look at the save the navy site,
and these new planes may be good, but the delays are looking very bad, but the goverment wont buy f18s, as a stop gap,
were going to look silly with no planes .
217 Briton
Jan 14th, 2012 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is likely we may have that situation but F18s won't interlace with the carrier as intended so there is little point in spending the money.
Something may turn up by then. :o)
@209 Editor UY,
Jan 14th, 2012 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0l'd say that Argentina definitely has plans for your country.
They are like predatory piranha & would like to establish an empire that consists or Argentina, Chile, Antarctica, Uruguay, Falklands & all the British Antarctic lslands.
l'm sure that they think it's their “right” & they “inherited” it from Spain.
Better arm yourselves & make alliances with strong countries, EditorUY.
218 ChrisR
Jan 14th, 2012 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you may well be right .
l'd say that Argentina definitely has plans for your country.
Jan 14th, 2012 - 01:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are like predatory piranha & would like to establish an empire that consists or Argentina, Chile, Antarctica, Uruguay, Falklands & all the British Antarctic lslands.
l'm sure that they think it's their “right” & they “inherited”
You are soo stupid isolde......
Just go to sleep....
221 Malvinero1
Jan 14th, 2012 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can't answer the posts properly with reasoned argument so resorts to abuse: has to be an Argie, this time it's Malvinero1. That's a suprise? :o)
Considering you cant even find the harbour entrance,
Jan 14th, 2012 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Then your reply was just to effortless,
Try again, without the insults,
@221 Malvinero1,
Jan 15th, 2012 - 04:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0soo stupid,
yes l must be to expect a rational response from a half-wit like you.
do you even know how to tie your shoe laces, malvin?
he does not
Jan 15th, 2012 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but he knows nothing ?
and thats hard work enough for any argie , titter .
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