MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
A “psychological war” to persuade UK to negotiate Falklands’ sovereignty
So far it’s a psychological war to try and persuade the British to begin Falkland Islands a sovereignty discussion with Argentina but there is nothing to discuss about since the Islanders don’t want to belong to Argentina and that’s it, said UK retired Major General Julian Thompson. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesAhhh - the Afghanistan chip !
Jan 22nd, 2012 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry Yanks, we cannot stay and help you with your wars, we need to look after our own!
Bet the Americans would just love that!
problem then
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0The conflict was over in 1982, but we were also really aware that it wasn’t over and when
Opportunity crept, the Argentines would resurface the dispute
Cure then
This should have been dealt with at the time, but perhaps we felt getting them out was far enough, rather than taking it to the mainland, and forcing the surrender with conditions,
But alas that was the past, we all make mistakes,
Lets hope we don’t have to do it again, for the sake of peace,, but if we are forced to do it all over again, with the bloodshed and almost certain deaths, then to be fair to history, the British must take it to the main land, and this time settle it properly,
[They know how], once and for all,
Just an opinion.
.
another stupid bully ex british military! an embarrassment of a power in decline!!! so sad!!
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0jelousy will get you knowhere .
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Briton
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 04:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0You tried the mainland tactic, right after your glorious conquests of Australia and South Africa in the early 1800s.
It was a horrendous Fail. Not once, but twice :)
'Glorious conquest of .... South Africa in the early 1800s......'
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 05:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Would you care to expand on that.....
@ Briton:
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 06:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't be so ignorant: read and inform yourself before you post!
Specifically, have a read at what the colonialist Empire of Britain attempted to do and FAILED not once but twice in both 1806 & 1807.
my two cents ;)
jelousy will get you knowhere .britton...Who is jealous?/ uk? That does not have Argentina and never will?/I think you are mad.pal.....We can wait...we are not dying for Malvinas....The pirates expelled our people,for which we will get even ..but we are not in a rush....waiting for the rigth time.....Meanwhile keep spending money...is YOUR MONEY!! I am glad you are spending foolishly your money..since uk is a failure! Ireland,now Scotts and Wales after...What incompetent...union Jack......well it look like more a desunion....
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 06:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0@7...
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 07:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Q.why do argentinians dwell on the past?
A. because they have no future.........
@9 - Thats because they have no present either due to them all living in the past ;-)))
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 09:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0How embarressing it most be to have a former argentina defence minister suggest the matter be resolves in a football match between Boca Juniors and Manchester City - It would be a goal fest for Man city lol.
@7
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 09:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0This shows how ignorant you are of history. The attacks of 1806 and 1807 were on Spanish colonies not argentina, which did mot exist at that time,as Britain was at war with France which at that time controlled Spain. Two years later Britain was fighting in Spain against France and supporting Spain in its war of independence which in turn allowed many of the Spanish colonies to obtain their independence.
“a football match between Boca Juniors and Manchester City”
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0LOL! The last Boca Juniors footie match I went to they were CRAP! It was like watching 11 year old school boys running around the pitch like peas on a tray. No one wanted to pass the ball and everyone wanted individual glory; it is a team game. That's if the game actually started. The Argentines might all 'pull a Tevez', throw a strop and refuse to play. : )
“I believe Mrs. Cristina Kirchner wants the glory ”
He's got that right. It is all about her ego and damn the damage it is doing to her country. She is heading for a mighty humiliation.
Rumour has that Argentina's budget surplus has dissapeared and that the country is now running with a defecit, all that within a year.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0If that is true, it makes sense why Argentina's ruling elite has been waving the Falklands sabre, distract the populace from the fact you bribed them to vote for you with social policies but spent all of it in just over a year :)
@ Viva Las Malvinas.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 10:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0What a bunch a rubbis!
You are taking history for token value and ignoring patterns. The colonialist British Empire did not invade Buenos Aires (not once but twice) because they were at war with France and Spain was occupied by France! Where do you read history from? Children's picture books? The colonialist British Empire invaded Buenos Aires in 1806 & 1807 with the goal of RETAINING the territory had it been successful and expanding its Empire!
You make it sound as if it were a battle and that is it. When in all reality it was yet another example of British imperialism and attempted expansionism which FAILED!
Yes, Helber but it was an attempt at taking Spanish territory, not Argentine territory. The 1806/7 invasions have nothing to do with Argentina. Argentina did not exist in 1806/7.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0What are you talking about JA Roberts? Spain had been captured by Napoleon and ALL TIES with the Spanish colonies had been severed! As a result the defense of Buenos Aires at Imperial Britain attempt was undertaken by the Creole (criollos) population.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0In any event (AND THIS IS THE MAIN POINT) those two invasion by the colonialist British Empire are a clear indicator of the expansionist policy that have caused headaches to more than country around the world!
Finally, one last word on those two failed invasions. It was the realization that the criollos could fend for themselves (remember ties with Spain were severed so, the 'colony' could no rely on Spain to come to its aid) that in no small part let to the first autonomous gov't in Buenos Aires in 1810.
what has a little skirmish in 1806/07 as part of a bigger war in europe got to do with Argentina trying to bully 3000 peace loving people....CFK tries to make argentina look the victim by bringing in the UK and colonialism otherwise they just look like a powerful country intimidating a much much smaller nieghbour...Shame on you ..
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well Nightingale, if you'd take the time and trouble to read all the posts, it wouldn't take you very long to figure it out. But since you are obviously somewhat lazy, I'll highlight it for you. Post #2 suggests that Britain should have attacked the mainland in '82. I pointed out that that was already tried both in 1806 and 1807 and FAILED. Is that good enough for you or do you want me to draw it for you? FFS *facepalm*
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0So Argentina brought in the accusation of colonialism? Here I was thinking all the time that it had been Cameron. READ UP MATE! Cameron called Argentina colonialist! The irony is just incredible. Being called colonialist by the Empire that coloured maps pink because they wanted to single out just how much territory they possessed. What next? Probably accuse Argentina of undertaking the salve trade, selling opium in China, or endorsing piracy during the Elizabeth Era! Seriously, what gives? Is the your idea of upside-down history? FFS
The Falkland Islands are first and foremost the Falkland Islands, secondly they are British, they are not now or-ever will be Argentine, the next steep in the Islands history will be to become independent, in the years to-come we may have links to the Argentine but not now, the Argentine needs to show that we can trust them before any talks can start, and until that day comes you can rant and rave as much as you like as in the past it got you nowhere it will get you nowhere now.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess you are no up for discussing UK PM Cameron accusation that Argentina is a colonialist country, are Kelper San? Surely you must agree that that is a bit rich coming from none other than someone from the former British Empire, right? Talk about projecting onto others what you are yourself!!
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@16 Wrong again! The war between France and Spain ended in 1795 with the Peace of Basel. In 1796 Spain signed the Second Treaty of San Ildefonso becoming an ally of France. Buenos Aires was therefore a legitimate target for Britain in its war against the combined France and Spain.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps while you are musing on the expansionist policies of the British Empire, you might want to contemplate the expansionist policies of the Spanish and French Empires.
And there were still links with the Spanish Empire. The problem was that Spain considered Lima and Montevideo more important. But the Viceroy still received a shipment of several thousand muskets. Reinforcing the point that BA was a Spanish Imperial colony.
By the way, Britain keeps records and can PROVE these FACTS. Bet you can't. Because the Spanish have always inflated situations for their own perceived “glory”. Or, more accurately, to cover their amazing ineptitude.
Oh that's amusing Helber, the descendants of Spanish colonists, in a country which is plainly the result of Spanish colonialism (which itself caused untold headaches around the world) offended at being called colonialist, when what they want to do is take over the homeland of the Falkland Islanders against the wishes of those Falkland Islanders - in other words colonialism. Methinks you don't *facepalm* yourself enough...
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You also seem to forget that the British Empire is long gone. Replaced by sovereign, independent countries, and also a scattering of tiny places which have freely chosen to retain the link with the UK.
You are not yet colonialist, Helber, but you would like to be.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) ln not so many years past you had designs on Chile.
2) You bully Uruguay.
3) You have made a ridiculous claim to the Falklands.
4) You have even more ridiculous claims to South Georgia & the South Sandwich lslands.
5) You are so desperate to claim British Antarctica that you even flew a pregnant Argentine woman there so her baby could be born there.
(part of an “lmplanted” population, wouldn't you say?)
6) You still hold onto land that you stole from Paraguay in 1871.
7) You murdered thousands of native peoples in Patagonia, in the “Conquest of the Desert”, just to get their land & extend southwards.
l challenge you to refute any of the 7 points that l have made.
You Argentines love playing the victim, when in fact you are the agressers.
ln an effort to cover your own crimes, you continually bring up what the British did but conveniently forget your own murky past.
Yes Helber, l'm certain that “Colonialist” (or would be colonialist)suits your nationality very, very well
Oh Conqueror, I have no qualms whatsoever on musing about the Spanish and French expansionist policies as you put it! At the end of the day, they were colonialist just as much as your beloved Britain! Now, putting Argentina on that list with those is just sick and far fetched!
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spain signed a treaty but it was of submission. France was running Spain until the end of the Napoleonic Wars. Links between colony and metropolis were minimal during that whole period! Why do you think Argentina happened to achieve its independence during that exact period? Mere coincidence? Come on, grow up!
The defense of Buenos Aires against the ugly invaders was undertaken to large degree by the inhabitants of Buenos Aires themselves. As I pointed out before, their realisation that they could defend themselves led in no small amount to their independence from Spain. It's all in the books, you only need to read. I am sure the weather there is so rubbish that it won't be too hard to spend hours indoors, right?
In any event, the UK's PM ramblings about Argentina could not have come at a better time. THE WHOLE WORLDWIDE PRESS HAS PICKED THE STORY UP. Imagine, just imagine being tagged as colonialist by none other than the foremost example of colonialism on planet earth!!! Perfect!! Could not have been better indeed!
Such a good job Argentina once again and again! The whole world speaks of the sovereignty dispute all the time, gets to know the truth and becomes aware of Argentina's peaceful stance and growing support. This is exactly the least that the UK expects: the existence of the dispute and the need to solve it cannot be no longer hidden or denied! Come to terms with it UK both in London and your colony!!!
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@JA Roberts: So according to you Argentines are descendants of Spanish colonialists. It is sweeping and unfortunate generalisations such as these that fail to reflect the reality and existence of the indigenous populations (WHICH STILL EXIST in Argentina) that continue to add to the misery of that population. FYI, there are indigenous peoples STILL in Argentina.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Second, the British Empire is over, is it? Tell why are there then not 1, 2, or 3 but 10 claims at the UN Special Committee on Decolonization involving Britain? I'll list these for you: Anguila
Bermuda
Gibraltar
Caiman Is
Malvinas Is
Turks and Caicos Is
Pitcairn
Virgin Is
Montserrat
St Helen
Tokela
@ Isolde: Argentina had designs on Chile? *facepalm* It was the other way around dear! Why o why do you think Chile has had poor relationship with not one or two but all three of its neighbours? It took territory from two of them and attempted to take from Argentina. Now, Chile has good relations with Argentina but both Peru and Bolivia (esp, the latter) want compensation for Chile's historical expansionist policies.
Second, I think Uruguay does what it does quite happily. You are just surprised becasue they are not doing what you would like them to do. Tough luck!
Finally, Britain calling Argentina colonialist. Seriously, give me a f**** break! What next??? Are they going to accuse Argentina of steeling drugs to the Chinese as the East Indian Company did with British gov't complicity in the XIX century? Are they going to accuse Argentina of playing a leading role in the slave trade? Or is it going to be of endorsing piracy as Britain did during the Elizabeth Era? Don't kid yourself, the mere existence of Britain has been a nightmare on countless individuals not for decades but centuries!!! And they have the nerve to accuse Argentina? Seriously, anything goes in this day and age.
@14 Rubbis! what ever that means.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Deny it if you will.
The history of the pennisular wars are well documented. I suggest you read it and try to obtain a more level view than your indoctrinated biased stance. Wikipedia is not the only source for historical reference.
Whatever you say these battles invasions or what ever were against Spain not the nonexistent Argentina. The land now known as Argentina was effectively ruled by the French.
I appreciate your lack of understanding of the english language but DC did not call Argentina colonialist but that that their demands over the Falklands were “like colonialists”. By trying to impose foreign rule over the Falklands Argenina is indeed acting like colonialists.
The Falklands are not Argentine and with this continued bellicose standpoint never will be Argentine. Win the hearts and minds of the Falklanders and then see what happens.
@ Viva Las Malvinas
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0it was a typo smart arse! Didn't know the teacher was in today *roll eyes*
Have it whichever way you like it mate but the British Empire was not seeking to 'win' a battle as you would have us believe but they were out to add more pinks to their map. Seriously mate, the XIX century is Imperial Britain at its best!
Yeah, English is not my native tongue so I can have mistakes sometimes. BTW, how good are you at a second language? Forget about a third, just a second?
In any event, DC hinting, even hinting that Argentina is colonialist is a bit rich. Even if it were true, England is the last, believe the last country on Earth that should be making that sort of accusation. If he were any smarter, he would have asked New Zealand to make it but being the big mouth that he is, and the very average PM that he is, he gaffed.
It was great for Argentina though! As the whole world wide press picked it up! how wouldn't they!! So now, Argentina's request to negotiate as the UN GA has stated, is being heard worldwide. What does the UK say? “there is nothing to negotiate”. Easy to see who comes out more damaged. One wishes to talk; the other is stubborn and doesn't wish to talk.
I take your point that Argentina must do more to woo the kelpers. That I agree with. Now, I will not accept, even for a minute, accusations (or even hints of it) by none other than the UK1
Helber, the vast majority of Argentines are of immigrant stock. We're talking 90% of the population and a significant majority of them have no South American genetics at all. So, not sweeping generalisations, but rather the cold facts.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's also well known that native South Americans are treated in Argentina like 2nd class citizens. I've seen it for myself. You were still killing them off until the 1920s... You really have no leg to stand on.
And on top of that the vast majority of what is now Argentina was conquered by force and stolen from its native owners DECADES after Buenos Aires gained independence from Spain. In the 1870s and 1880s. Most of the Pampas, Patagonia and a large swathe of the Chaco. That is colonialism if ever there was. You were still arguing with Chile over those spoils right up until the 1980s.
@28 Thank you. Poor joke.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just for your information I do speak Spanish. In fact at the time of the Argentine colonial invasion of the Falklands in 1982 I was completing my A levels which included Spanish. Also I have been married to a Spaniard, a member of the Institute of Linguists and the American Translators Association, for 21 years. Most importantly our 4 children are bilingual. So don't go down that road. However I do agree that in general the British are poor in relation to foreign language ability.
The fact is the battles of Buenos Aires and Montevideo were effectively minor skirmishes in the overall picture of the events at the beginning of the 19th century.
I would acknowledge that, with a modern viewpoint certain things were done wrong in the time of the Empire however overall the benefits have outweighed the disadvantages.
Argentina claims the Falklands on the back of Spanish colonialism this is undisputable. So if Argentina is not acting like colonialists it should not pursue the colonialist act of imposing their rule over the Falklanders. Just a thought.
With regard to negotiations what is it you want to negotiate as I understand sovereignty is enshrined in your constitution. You deny the rights of the islanders of self-determination so until you change your constitution and negotiate with an open mind there is nothing to discuss.
@26 Helber,
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your junta, openly said to Chile, “when we've finished with the Falklands, you're next”
Why do you think Chile laid all those mines in TDF?(Thank you Think for putting me onto that)
Argentina nearly went to war with Chile in 1978 because of some small islands in the Beagle Channel.
Chile has half of your population, why were you afraid of them?
l am not asking Uruguay to do anything that l want. l sympathise with them for having such an aggressive neighbour.
You are proving yourselves to be colonialist by YOUR expansionist policies. You want OUR land. lt isn't yours. You want to make us into an Argentine colony. ergo, you are colonialist. Tough luck, if you don't like it.
l notice that you are noticeably quiet on the other points that l raised.
Can't think of an excuse, maybe?
Or perhaps just getting ready to hand the stolen land back to Paraguay?
Yes, Britain was in the slave trade & it wasn't right.
A lot of other countries were too, including your motherland, Spain.
Oh but thats not us, l hear you say. No its your country's ancestors though.lf you can't be blamed for what your ancestors did, why should we? Double Argentine standards at play?
Yes we did have pirates & privateers(do you know the difference?)
They stole from the Spanish(Argentina's ancestors)what the Spanish stole from the lncas & Aztecs. No better, but no worse.
The only point that you have made that l agree with is the sale of drugs to the Chinese. l am not proud of my country for that.
However l digress, by Argentina's present actions, they have earned the right to be called “colonialist” Too bad if you don't like it♥
@ JA Roberts:
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0First, latest genetic studies have revealed that Argentina as a European settler society is somewhat of a myth. In fact, those studies revealed that roughly 50% of the population had indigenous blood in them. It came as a surprise to everyone!
Second, yes, indigenous populations have historically been treated poorly in Argentina (I'd say in the Americas, in fact, wherever indigenous populations have been colonised - if not ask aboriginals in Australia and Maoris in NZ). Nevertheless, Argentina is trying to change that -if it ever can be. On that note, the British were not particularly friendly to indigenous populations around the world either. No one was. Let's not kid ourselves, now. That does not make it right, and there is plenty of work to be done by Argentina Gov't in this area.
Your last point. No, that is not colonialism as it has been historically understood because historically it has mean overseas dominions. Nevertheless, I don't wish to skirt your point. Those are indeed sad episodes in the history of Argentina.
I don't think it is a good idea that 'the whole world' is going to see CFK and Argentina humiliated again. Clearly the Argentine government is so busy putting up a smoke screen over their failing economy that they have not thought long-term.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ Isolde: The Junta said? What about what Chile ACTUALLY did? The nicked territory from Bolivia and Peru and had plans to take parts of Patagonia. How on Earth can you have only three neighbours yet have poor relations with ALL THREE? That is Chile for you....... go figure.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've already admitted to Argentina's wrongdoings in a previous post. I think it's my immediate previous post so your points are taken there. :)
Spain did not even compare to Britain in the slave trade. No comparison. Please!
And I also STRONGLY disagree at your point of Argentina being labelled colonialist.
You know the sad bit is that I am almost 100% sure that if the kelpers were to choose to be a part of Argentina you would be left to go on with life as you do now. I seriously doubt more than a couple of 100 Argentines would actually move there. What you fail to understand is the affront and insult of seeing British expansionism in this day and age. Did you read the post where I mention the 10 cases at the UN special Committe on Decolonisation with Britain as protagonist? FFS, we are in the XXI century!!! What gives *roll eyes*?
@ ElaineB: The economy is failing? What are you on? Heroine? It's been growing for the 8 straight year at an average rate of 7%!! Are you for real are have you come to take the piss?
Seriously! Other things might be failing but not precisely the economy *roll eyes*
Helber Galarga
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0from your posts it's easy to see that like a lot of Argentine blogger's you are unwilling or unable to see that no mater what, the Argentine government may say, the Islands will never be a part of the Argentine, about 95% of Argentines are descendent's of settlers Immigrant's or planted people, you can call them what you like,
I'm a descendent of a settler who landed in the Falklands in about 1870, one of my uncles move to the Argentine in about 1910 I believe and I have a large number of relatives who are Argentine, as I am a Falkland Islander and will always be a Falkland Islander,
and as I said before the Islands are not a part of the Argentine nor will they ever be.
Kelper San,
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you read my posts at all? I've already mentioned that the latest DNA studies reveal that 50% of Argentines have indigenous blood thereby debunking that myth that 95% are descendents from Immigrant settlers. Buenos Aires DOES NOT sum Argentina!!!
I gather you might read Spanish so here is the link but if not, let me know, and I can get one in English for you.
http://www.indigenas.bioetica.org/nota28.htm
Oh, I beg to differ. I think in due course, Britain will sit down to negotiate and Argentina will have to give guarantees to the livelihoods of kelpers. Not too difficult actually! Stranger things have happened in our world ;)
don't think it is a good idea that 'the whole world' is going to see CFK and Argentina humiliated again. Clearly the Argentine government is so busy putting up a smoke screen over their failing economy that they have not thought long-term
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure elaine....Sure...Argentina “crisis” will be far better than uk crisis.....
uk is FINISHED that is the reality.....uk is going DOWN fast.....
I Love Argentina...MALVINAS ARGENTINAS
Helber Galarga
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0sorry but it dose not as it say DNA studies reveal that 50% of Argentines have indigenous blood, I have Scandinavian blood in my line, that dose not change the fact that I'm a Islander and British, nor dose it change the fact of were you are from.
also if you can tell me one thing that we can trust the word of the Argentine government on, that we may in any way consider is in the best interest of the Islands.
@ Kelper San
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And I am a person with a mixture of descendants AMONG THEM indigenous peoples too! I am happy for that and also proud!
Like I said before, I honestly am sure that the Gov't this one and the following ones would allow the kelpers to continue with their livelihoods as is. That is my gut feeling. I don't expect you to believe me so, please don't ask me to believe you if you beg to differ.
I ask no one to trust me just because I say they can, with all what the Argentine government is trying at this moment in time, I have no trust in anything they say, in time that may change but what will not change is the Falklands will never be a part of the Argentine, we may become Friends in time but that will be all.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falklanders will decide there own Future!!!!
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They do not want to be part of argentina!!!!!!
There Industries are Growing and Prospering!!!
The Falklands are Celebrating 179 years!!!!!
The UK and the Falklands do not need to negotiate as there is Nothing to negotiate over, so the argentines can keep on dreaming about the mythical land of malvenass!
Long Live the Falklands.
Down with argentine colonialism.
34 Helber Galarga
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The reason that there are still British Overseas Territories is not 'British Expansionism'! What are you talking about? We know what century it is.
Those place are all too small and too isolated to go it alone, and in all cases have no wish to be independent.
Are you seriously suggesting that places like Pitcairn Island should be cut loose from the UK? Or St Helena?
Britain has an obligation and a responsibility to its Overseas Territories and that includes the Falkland Islands.
The fact that Argentina chooses to claim the Falkland Islands is neither here nor there. No British government is going to hand us over to alien domination and subjugation. There is no precedent for it. You will not get the opportunity to 'allow' us to carry on living in our homes in the way we choose. I think you can have no idea how offensive that language is.
We might one day decide to be independent if the conditions are right, and that depends on whether you can be good neighbours. That is the best you can hope for.
Like I said before, I honestly am sure that the Gov't this one and the following ones would allow the kelpers to continue with their livelihoods as is
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wow thats big of you,jees when do you want the keys?
@36 Helber Galarga:
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you read that study properly, it says that only 10% of the study sample had no European ancestry, whereas 44% had no indigenous ancestry.
So, 56% had at least some indegineous ancestry, but 90% had at least some European ancestry.
What is interesting is that 90% of Argentinians self-identify themsleves as being of European descent, so socially the vast majority of Argentinians choose to ignore their indegenous ancestry.
“I think in due course, Britain will sit down to negotiate and Argentina will have to give guarantees to the livelihoods of kelpers. Not too difficult actually!”
Very difficult, actually!. The UK has guaranteed the self-determination of the Falkland Islanders. So, until the Islanders choose to negociate (and from their perspective, there is nothing to negociate), then nothing will happen. Nothing is likely to change in our lifetime and probably that of the next generation, too. Maybe the next generation or two of Argentinians will make Argentina so attractive that the Islanders may choose to be associated with them. However, I imagine that the Falkland Islands will be a fully independent sovereign state by then, so its immaterial.
All your British Empire bashing is not going to change that fact. Today, no nation can claim to be more anti-colonialist than the UK. The UK didn't have to give up all of the colonies, but they chose to do so. ALL colonies and BOTs that wanted independence have been granted it. Those who didn't are still BOTs by choice. The Falkland Islands are one of those.
Argentina seems to want to perpetuate colonialism in the 21st century. They want to take a territory where the population freely chooses to remain associated with one country (and has full control over its internal affairs) and turn it into a territory where the population is adminsitered by country that they don't want to be associated with and where they have no control over their own affairs. Which one sounds more colonial?
7=
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0when i said, take it to the mainland,
i did not mean invade argentina,
the british goverment should have [turned] as in direct, to the main land, and demanded conditions, of no future agresion,
or sooner or later, one would have to return,
and this sadly may well happen, one way or the other,
argentina, should just leave the islanders alone to get on with their lives in peace .
@Monty69: give it whichever spin suits you best mate, but at the end of the day there is a UN Special Committee on Decolonisation (ie. just in case you miss it, this means to 'undo' or do away with cases of COLONISATION) and the UK has not 1, 2 or 3 cases against but 10 of the 16. Again, just in case you missed it, that is more than 50% of all the cases!!!
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say “The reason that there are still British Overseas Territories is not 'British Expansionism'!”. Oh no? so enlighten us. How did Britain get those territories? Donation from God? Get the f*** out! Talk about living in denial. Next thing you are going to be saying is that the UK never adopted expansionist policies! *roll eyes*
@Crackpot:
You say “What is interesting is that 90% of Argentinians self-identify themsleves as being of European descent, so socially the vast majority of Argentinians choose to ignore their indigenous ancestry.”
That doesn't make that perception right. IN fact, those analysis debunk that myth that was constructed and then propagated endlessly that Argentina is a European settler society. That is only partially true.
56% have indigenous blood (i.e. ancestors). That is HUGE!! especially given the myths that Argentines are from European stock! Another myth, that indigenous people did not leave any trace in the current population of Argentina. False again! Although heavily depleted, indigenous people are a big part of today's Argentine makeup. Some people wish to ignore this and perpetuate the myth I mentioned above, but that does not make it true.
@Helber Galarga
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The decolonisation committee became obsolete the moment they went against resolution 1514 regarding self determination, and since then have been nothing but a forum for deluded and brainwashed nations like argentina to try and get pity, and validation for your pathetic delusion of being “victims”.
Britain on the other hand has full legal backing due to the UN charter, ICJ mandates, and every historical source pertaining to the issue. All you have is your own propaganda which counts for less than nothing in the real world.
Your ancestors butchered their way across South America from the moment you claimed independence. Hell you even managed to exterminate your black population by using them as cannon fodder in these expansionistic wars as shown by your enormously disproportionate conscription of them.
The conquest of the desert you undertook is an internationally recognised genocide, and is merely one of countless occasions where you slaughtered countless innocents, stole their land, and then planted European settlers upon it. And yet you whine about the islanders?
The fact you claim to have native ancestry is utterly irrelevant. That a minority of argentines have trace amounts of native blood does not erase the sickening crimes the vast majority of your ancestors committed, nor does it legitimise your ownership of the land you inhabit.
Your entire society is in denial, not only of your history and the sickening crimes committed to attain what is modern argentina, but of basic world history.
Whereas Britain indeed had vast territories, unlike argentina it ruled through proxy, and when the age of empires was finished allowed these territories independence if they so desired. This is much of the reason why Britain’s imperial crimes pale in comparison to those like Spain, France, Belgium, Russia, China, African and Arab empires, and of course ex colonies like you.
Grow a spine and stop deluding yourselves
The irony of it all
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Someone from British decent rabbit on and on and lecturing on butchering, genocide and ruling by proxy?
I guess transferring endless numbers of slaves from West Africa to the Americas was 'less of an imperial crime', was it Braedon? The slave trade show just how fair and magnanimous the British Empire was? Yeah really nice.
Or when they turned a blind eye to the East Indian Co. exploitation of Indian peasants and then selling opium to Chinese. Yet another example of just what a dandy Empire it was *roll eyes*. Or what about endorsing piracy? Another great example of their enlightened nature?
Get your head out of your arse for once and stop typing like a deluded muppet. Who do you think you are trying to kid when talking the British Empire up?
@helber Galarga
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Slavery was started and perfected by nations like Spain and Portugal as well as the Arab states long before Britain started, and Britain was also the nation which was solely responsible for the global abolition of slavery as well as the international enforcement of this abolition.
And on the subject of the east India Company, their crimes in India were dwarfed by the crimes of the other factions in India, including the Muhgal Empire and the various princely states. In fact one of the major reasons for the backlash against the East India Company was the social reform they were implementing.
As for china, given in the 18th century alone, the Chinese empire alone committed outright genocide on the Dzungars nigh exterminating tens of millions of innocents, and in the 19th century it slaughtered (by some estimates) near 100 million in the Dungan revolt, the Nien Revolt, and the Taipang Revolt, as well as the crimes it committed alongside these in enforcing imperial rule. Yet you whine about the British Empire forcing open Chinese ports to trade (opium being merely one of the products)?
The British Empire was far from moral, but the rest of the world was much, much worse.
And of course the whining about piracy, Your nation truly seems to have inherited Spain’s hysterical sense of victimhood regarding Britain messing with their imperial gains.
Setting aside the fact that at the time Britain endorsed priviteering Spain was creating a nightmarishly brutal and violent empire in South America, every nation had similar systems, and compared to the crimes of Spain, piracy utterly pales in comparison. It is just Spain’s bitterness that Britain cheated them out of their ill gotten gains.
Whining about the British Empire is the surest sign of a nation which is deeply, deeply deluded and in denial over its own history.
At the end of the day, as long as the free people of the Falklands wish to remain British, then that is their free choice, and until she changes her mind, then they will remain British,
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And im afraid their is nothing anyone can do abt it,
The past is the past, today people have rights,
It is their choice, they have exercised that right.
Well there you have it folks! teh British Empire was a humanitarian enterprise and the world should thank them because, according to the deluded poster of Braedon, they were 'less harmful'. Gee....never knew you could measure harm dished out in that way *roll eyes*.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Seriously Braedon, get the f*** out! Take your fairy tales about how grandiously humanitarian the BE was somewhere else.
51, Wouldn't you say that former British colonies are fairing better than any/all other of the colonial power's former colonies? I think their laws, rules, regulations and hardiness set up the USA, Australia, Canada etc etc etc up pretty darn well.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The former Spanish and Portuguese colonies are still a disaster 200+ years later! Mostly their populations are lazy, backward and corrupt just like their fatherlands...
51 Helber Galarga
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And once again the self righteous argentine cowards ignores what was written (ie my statement RIGHT ABOVE THIS saying “Britain was far from moral, but the rest of the world was much, much worse) because her argument is so full of bullshit and propaganda.
I merely stated easily verifiable facts on human history which you are welcome to try and disprove. And besides, all you are trying to do now is desperately attempt to change the subject from your own worthless nation’s crimes against innocents, which it still reaps the benefit of.
However, such hysterical obsession with British historical crimes while desperately denying your own much worse ones is not uncommon for spineless nationalist whiners like yourself, so I am not surprised to see you trying to run away like your “brave” conscripts did in 1982.
And the reason I included that particular insult on the end of this comment is because I know you will most likely throw a tantrum and run away because you are too scared to deal with basic facts, and I just want to make it easy for you.
Either prove me wrong or stop whining and go away
@ Braedon,
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I cannot take your comments seriously becuase you are inviting me to compare and measure harm dished out by various imperial countries (not Argentina, mind you) yet YOU FAIL to provide me with the indicators and tools that allow for measuring harm. Personally, I don't believe you can measure harm but it would seem you, deluded as you are, do! Therefore you bile of a human, put your money where your mouth is and speel out which tools and indicators can be used to gauge harmul from benevolent Empire as you would have us believe.
Until that time, I kinkly invite you to bugger off.
Do you understand the above post or would you like me to draw it for you? FFS *roll eyes*
“The rest of the world was worse the Britain” How the f*** do you come up with statements such as that? How do you sustantiate it? What tools or instrument do you tap into that allow you to make such statemente?
What a muppet, and a deluded on a that....
46 Helber Galarga
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 11:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Didn't your mummy ever teach you not to swear at a lady?
I have no doubt that Britain had expansionist policies in the past. It doesn't now.
I asked you a question. I asked you if you thought Britain should abdicate its responsibilities and cut loose territories including Monserrat, Pitcairn and St Helena, that clearly don't have the means to support themselves? That would pander to your antiBritish prejudices but it wouldn't help the inhabitants would it.
@54
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 11:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ok let’s measure harm.
Number of genocides committed by each nation
Argentina
-Conquest of the desert, and the extermination of native tribes therein plus the theft of their land
-The genocides of other tribes living in argentina who would not submit their land and resources to argentine rule
-the use of your black population as cannon fodder via a massively disproportionate system of conscription
British genocides during the same period
-.....
Hmm ok then let’s measure beneficent measures and actions by each nation to save and improve lives, or advance humanity
Argentina
-.....
Britain
-Medical inventions saving billions over the past 200 years, including anti biotics, blood transfusion, modern anaesthesia
-Scientific Inventions such as almost the entire fields of modern biology (evolutionary theory, molecular biology, neurons, nuclear transfer and DNA), physics (atomic theory, protons, electrons, law of gravity and laws of motion), and astronomy (big bang theory, radio astronomy and numerous planets and asteroids discovered)
-Technological achievements like modern computing, the computer itself (possiblythe most important invention in human history), the World Wide Web (and thus the modern internet), electronic memory, portable computers, the concept of a microchip, Television, the Phone, Industry, circuits
Besides, you are the one who in each comment you made on this article whined about the British Empire, and the moment I brought up your own crimes you exploded in self righteous hysteria while trying to change the subject.
Also, unlike you i can indeed substantiate my remark “the rest of the world was much, much worse”, I specifically included the possible death toll of just a few of china’s actions, and I can easily find similar figures for Russia, Spain, France, Belgium, and statistically similar figures from argentina
and the tool i tap into is known as the INTERNET
now as i said before, refute what i said or stop whining and go away
at Monty69:
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0so what are Britain's responsibilities? Are you hinting that expansionism and colonisation of territories bestow responsibilities on the colonizer? If so, please spell these out for me....
Some interesting facts on slavery .
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 11:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Established In Virginia
Slavery was officially established in Virginia in 1654, when Anthony Johnson, a black man, convinced a court that his servant (also black) John Casor was his for life. Johnson himself had been brought to Virginia some years earlier as an indentured servant (a person who must work to repay a debt, or on contract for so many years in exchange for food and shelter – image of a contract above) but he saved enough money to buy out the remainder of his contract and that of his wife. The court ruled in Johnson’s favor, and the very first officially state-recognized slave existed in Virginia. Johnson eventually became very wealthy and began importing his own black slaves from Africa, for which he was granted 250 acres (at the time, any person importing a slave would be paid 50 acres per person). Eventually the unfortunate repercussions of this decision would come back to haunt Johnson when his land was confiscated and given to a white man because Johnson “was a Negroe and by consequence an alien.”
...
57 Helber Galarga
Jan 24th, 2012 - 12:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Britain's responsibility to its overseas territories is to help them to develop in the way they think is best for themselves. In some cases that will be independence. In other cases not.
You are not in a position to decide for us what is best for us. That would be just another version of colonialism.
@ Braedon: what a biased, incompetent and obtuse character you must be. So you posted all Argentina's misdeeds and NONE (not one) of the Brisith EMpires and then, if that in itself was not sufficient, you go on and staet all of Britains accomplishment. Sorry mate to biased and distorted for me to engage with seriously. I cannot stoop to such a low level of discussion. Carry on.
Jan 24th, 2012 - 12:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, and on using the interent as your tool for allegedly measuring how harmful or benevolent an empire is, well what can I say? I've seen more resoursceful and creative ways of research among school kids. But, hey, if that suffices for you and rocks your boat, well, to each own his own *roll eyes*
@ Briton, more than a fact on slavery as you put it, it would seem to me that that actually is a one off fact about one off person.
@Monty69: Oh.....paternalist Britain has a responsibility to help and develop. What a load of crap!! What about what the owners of these territories from whom they were nicked? What about what they want? Oh, no God forbid to listen to what they want. Imperial Britain alwasy knows best what is best for everyone. Just like imperial Britain KNEW it was in the best interest of chinese to consume opium and fill the pockets of those in the Est India Co. *roll eyes*
60 Helber Galarga
Jan 24th, 2012 - 12:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry, remind me who owned Pitcairn Island before it was 'nicked'. How about Tristan da Cunha? Or St Helena? Monserrat maybe? No?
You should do a bit of research before you go spouting off your brainwashed nonsense.
I couldn't give a stuff about the Chinese and opium. It's ancient history. Time you grew up and got over it. You're living in the past.
Imperial Argentina is very quick to tell Falkland Islanders what is in our 'interests'. Just because you had a couple of people here for five minutes two hundred years ago. How is that any different to what Britain did? You have no idea what is best for us.
@60
Jan 24th, 2012 - 12:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0actually i used the number of genocides as an indicator of “harm caused”. Britain thankfully saw the pragmatic value of keeping as many people alive as possible to act as workers, soldiers, builders and to keep them happy, which is why the worst events in the British empire were famines, which the British empire pioneered the management of despite being unable to handle initially.
If you like i can list the ammount of land which each nation still holds onto from the time of empire
Britain
- a collection of islands which all vote to remain british
Argentina
- the entirity of argentina, which you ethnically cleansed of natives so they cannot vote for independence
i am aware you are trying to run away from what i was saying, but my point was that whining about the British empire is pointless given the fact that the entirety of the rest of the world was responsible for as bad or worse crimes.
and as you were whining about “harm” i decided to ask about what good argentina has done compared to Britain, and i notice you could not think of anything worthwhile or important your nation has accomplished.
@60 Rolls eyes helber,
Jan 24th, 2012 - 03:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0l'd give up if l were you mate.
Not only has Braedon blown you out of the water, he's depth-charged the flotsam as well.
Even you must admit that you've been snookered.
Now, niño, do you see why:-
1) We want NOTHING to do with Argentina.
2) We will NOT talk to you about Sovereignty.
3) We do NOT trust you at all.
4) We rightly regard you as “Colonialist” with your intentions towards us.
BACK OFF MATE, Get lost.
63 lsolde
Jan 24th, 2012 - 03:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Only in your deams!! Sorry
Your Apology is not accepted, Kiwisarg.
Jan 24th, 2012 - 03:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Has anyone ever told you that you are an idiot?
l think it best that you know this, ldiota.
@ Monty69:
Jan 24th, 2012 - 06:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am merely stating the cases before the UN Special Committee on Deconlonization. And then ones you mention are among 7 others which have Britain as the colonial overlord. Or are you saying that those cases are not before the UN Special Committee? Oh, and I am not surprise you don't give a stuff about the Chinese and opium. However, I think the BE should own up to the countless damage they've caused through their imperial and colonial policies.
@Braedon couldn't disagree with you more! If deaths were the was to measure how benevolent or perverse an Empire has been that would make it all to easy and numerical. I can see why you would like that. However, what about what you cannot quantify? For instance countries literally destroyed by years of imperial exploitation, such is the case with the better part of the African continent? Sure, you'll say that France, Portugal had a heavy hand in that, and they did! But what about England's hand in it? Those countries suffer to this date, the exploitation and pillaging of resources undertaken by those imperial overlords. Yet, limited to deaths only (as you would have us measure imperial undertakings), it isn't as bad as other empires. So no! I, for one, do not accept measuring the outcome of empires solely on deaths as you suggest.
Need I remind you that THERE IS STILL INDIGENOUS POPULATIONS IN ARGENTINA? THEY WERE NOT ETHNICALLY CLEANSED AS YOU WOULD PUT IT! But your overlord did relocate the natural inhabitants of Diego Garcia for instance. In fact they have an ongoing litigation against the UK. Care to comment on that? *laughter*
BTW tosser, not going anywhere. I am right here! The thing is I work and cannot be here 24/7
Helber, there would be a lot more indigenous populations in what is now Argentina if you had not ethnically cleansed them in the conquistas of the “desierto” and the Chaco. Just because you didn't get around to killing them all doesn't mean you didn't engage in genocide. You were shooting them up right up until the 1920s.
Jan 24th, 2012 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh and “paternalist” Britain does have a responsibility to it's OTs, in fact it has an obligation under a number of UN Resolutions not only to allow them a full measure of government but also to develop their own resources.
The only reason the Falkland Islands is still on the C24 list is because Argentina blocks its removal. Every year the Falkland Islander's representatives ask to be removed and every year Argentina blocks this because of her unfounded and ultimately unsustainable claim.
@66 Helber,
Jan 24th, 2012 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Whatever you say, Helber♥ lf it makes you feel better.
BTW , cute eyes,Have you given Paraguay it's land back yet?
No?, but you do plan to, don't you?
You don't like being branded Colonialist, do you?(even though you are!).
Fix your own broken country before you try to meddle in other people's affairs.
JA Roberts: I have never killed anyone in my life and will never do so. So please refer to the Argentine State killing them. Furthermore, I deeply disagree with what was undertaken. Unlike some perturbed posters here who 'dont give a stuff of the chinese and opium' and the British Empire's role in that sad episode, I do give a stuff about la conquista del desierto.
Jan 24th, 2012 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Negotiations between the UK and Argentina are inevitable. Both are active SUBJECTS of international law and international politics. Malvinas, right now, is only an OBJECT of int'l law and int'l politics. In other words, kelpers DEPEND on the UK being your 'voice' because you are not subjects, you have no seating on the UN GA or the UN SC or other international organisations.
So tell me JA Roberts, what would be the UK's responsibilities vis-a-vis those 10 territories on the UN Special Committee on Decolonisation's list according to that committes' view?
The Argentina that stormed the islands in '82 is a very different one from this one. Please, remember the context. Some of the military regimes that governed S. America states during that time had been ACTIVELY propped up by the USA in its alleged war against communism. Or are we now to completely ignore that, for instance, Chile had a democratically elected gov't toppled and a military regime propped up with active USA involvement all in the name of a war against communism? I don't recall the UK protesting that toppling. Much in the same way as I don't recall the UK protesting the toppling of the democratically elected gov't in Argentina which led to the '76 military regime and which the USA welcomed. do you know why? Because the UK was the USA's ally and thought along with the USA that this was instrumental in the war against communism. Or do you think many Argentines wanted to have a military regime? Or do you think some of us have not suffered during those bleak years of military rule?
@69 Helber,
Jan 24th, 2012 - 09:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0We do indeed realise how the population suffered in Argentina & in Chile.
And we certainly don't want that here.
The fact is we owe you nothing.
This is NOT your land, despite all that you were taught at school.
lt has NEVER been yours.
And if by some nightmare you were able to take over here, who can guarantee that you(& us) would not get another military regime?
Certainly not you, Helber.
Negotiations are not inevitable, why should they be?
Regarding negotiations,
We have something that you want.
You have nothing that we want.
Why should we negotiate?
What you mean by negotiations is a timeframe for the handing over of the lslands.
lts in your constitution.
lts not going to happen. so very sorry for you♥
Helber,
Jan 24th, 2012 - 10:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0The last UN Resolution calling for the UK and Argentina to negotiate a solution to the sovereignty dispute was in 1988 (43/25).
The very next year the UK entered into NEGOTIATIONS with Argentina and in October 1989 an agreement was signed at Madrid, agreeing to a sovereignty umbrella. Several other agreements flowed from this, setting up a Fisheries Commmission, a Hydrocarbons agreement, Flights and Navigation, Environment, Mine Clearance, Nomenclature etc. Argentina decided in 2007 to tear up most of these agreements. The UK has complied with the UN request to negotiate. It arrived at a number of agreements with Argentina and Argentina has unilaterally withdrawn from those agreements - and now says the UK refuses to negotiate? Please!
The only thing the UK refuses to negotiate is a transfer of sovereignty. Something which no UN Resolution calls for and something the Falkland Islanders do not want.
As for UK's “paternalistic” responsibilities to the Non Self Governing Territories it administers:
Start with the UN Charter
Article 73, see part b.
http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter11.shtml
Article 76, see part b.
http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter11.shtml
General Assembly Resolutions
Resolution 1514 (1960) concerning Non Self Governing Territories
See especially the 2nd and 5th declarations.
http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter11.shtml
Helber Galarga@66: Need I remind you that THERE IS STILL INDIGENOUS POPULATIONS IN ARGENTINA? THEY WERE NOT ETHNICALLY CLEANSED AS YOU WOULD PUT IT!
Jan 24th, 2012 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0There are still Jews living in Germany, but nobody could deny that they were ethnically cleansed by the Nazis.
Also, why all the harping on about the sins of the British Empire, but at the same time the continual denial that the events of 1982 have anything to do with Argentina today just because it was a different government back then. Accept it. It happened and you as a nation need to take some responsibility for it. You are just as reposnsible for it as the UK is for things that happened during the British Empire. More so, in fact, as it was only 30 years ago. The Germans accept responsibility for the Nazi atrocities and they are a much more credible nation because of it. Denying such things is actually a crime in Germany. Maybe Argentina should take a leaf out of their book.
@Helber Galarga
Jan 24th, 2012 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ah yes you are once again changing the goalposts. Of course given your country’s bloody history you would try to pretend that all those you slaughtered do not matter, neither does you continued theft of their land and occupation of it. How sickeningly pathetic, yet utterly expected.
And as for our “exploitation” of the African continent, may I remind you that the former British territories in Africa were and are the richest and most prosperous nations in Africa due to the infrastructure, local governments, and strong economies we left behind. It was only ever in cases like Idi Amin and Robert Mugabe who consciously uprooted every part of the old British infrastructure that their nations turned from the “breadbaskets of the world” to third world hellholes, or cases like South Africa in which the Afrikaners actively defied British rule to set up Apartheid .
And if the number of deaths and the number of genocides compared to the number of beneficent inventions and achievements do not determine how “good” or “bad” an empire was (your terms not mine as i am not so hysterically immature with history, which is very bereft of anyone who can honestly be called good or evil) then what does your definition of “harm” mean?
And the fact that actual natives in your country constitute barely 1%, and are suffering from horrific deprivation including poverty, disease and malnutrition merely proves my point, as the fact that they constitute such a tiny and disenfranchised group in a country they once were 100% of the population exemplifies the consequences of your campaigns of genocide against them.
And as for the Diego Garcia islanders, you said all I need to. They are able to take their case to courts, which have shown their support for them, and they also enjoy public support. This is infinitely more than can be said for the victims of your government over the past few decades.
Sorry, Helber, but in 1982 when Argentina invaded the Falklands I don't remember Argentines coming out in their masses to protest. I was living in Rio Gallegos at the time and the town went bananas with joy.
Jan 24th, 2012 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, and as for context. Well in 1833 conquest by force was a perfectly acceptable way of taking territory. Most of what is today Argentina was taken by conquest and by force, long after independence from Spain.
So in the context of the time, Britain took the Falklands and established control. Argentina did not. The Falklands therefore became British. They were not stolen from Argentina, because Argentina had never established any sort of control - key to perfecting title from a mere claim to sovereignty. The world has since moved on and we live in the post UN Charter age. Now self determination is what counts. Not what happened in 1833. It's high time Argentina got over this imagined slight, grew up and started behaving like a mature democracy.
Well in 1833 conquest by force was a perfectly acceptable way of taking territory........ Mr Roberts , this is by far the most accurate, reasonable, understandable and honorable statement that I have heard so far. You deserve my admiration sir !
Jan 24th, 2012 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 069 Helber Galarga (#)
Jan 24th, 2012 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“@ Isolde: Argentina had designs on Chile? *facepalm* It was the other way around dear! ”
----
Hold on people, this sentence is the most ridiculous one I have read, since joining Mercopress. You don't believe that BS yourself. Then how do you think, somebody else could believe that crap!
Argentine “Operacion Soberania” end of the 70ies was a clear invasion plan towards Chile, last one which was going through the weakest institutional periods since it's independence (and even then you trembled and changed your mind because it was to risky for you...).
Operación Soberanía (Operation Sovereignty)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Soberan%C3%ADa
With people like you spreading such lies, it's just a pleasure to support the position of the Islanders (who have all my sympathies by the way)
You should be happy that we do not have this oportunistically perverted mentality you have as a nation, otherwise we would have wiped you from the surface of earth beginning this millenium (considering your practically non-existance of military institutions over there thanks to the Kirchners) .But you know, we are not you... happily.
This never was in our mind, not even in 2001, where we felt pity and sent you help as the first nation in Southamerica.
otherwise we would have wiped you from the surface of earth beginning this millenium ........ wipe out ? you? we can kick your ass with a catapult !!!
Jan 24th, 2012 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@77 Artillero 601
Jan 24th, 2012 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0we can kick your ass with a catapult !!!
Are you talking about Argentina now or Uncle Sam?
Just a thought.
Argentina , obviously :-)
Jan 24th, 2012 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was going to say something,
Jan 24th, 2012 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but watching you lot go at it, is more interesting,
thanks, but i will just watch .
lol!
Jan 24th, 2012 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Briton, you are friend so please join us :-))
Hey, Argentines, maybe it is your British blood that makes you so aggressive, :-)))))))))
Jan 24th, 2012 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ha ha.
Jan 24th, 2012 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Since Helber Galarga has already received most of the blunt scolding he richly deserves, I would like to make just two points here.
Jan 24th, 2012 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The first is a defence of David Cameron's accusation. That Argentina has never been called “colonialist” does not imply that this linguistic use is incorrect. Up to a certain point in time no black people had been called “racist”, but today it is widely recognised that the meaning of this word includes as examples the lamentably numerous black people who bear an invincible hostility to all white people. In fact, it is now commonly accepted that even white racists can be victims of racism. When one considers the words “colonialist” and “racist”, the only irony one can find is that some heirs or descendants of past victims of an abominable practice are among its contemporary advocates or perpetrators. Some people have not quite got the lesson right. Just as Louis Farrakhan condemns white racism merely because it is done by white people, Helber Galarga and his whiny compatriots condemn British colonialism merely because it was done by the United Kingdom. What is behind the acceptance of these views is either colossal obtuseness or sheer perversity.
The second is a warning to my self-pitying neighbours. (I am Brazilian.) My government will not go out of its way to endorse your preposterous territorial claims. It is happy to indulge you, as long as doing so maximises profits. However, if push comes to shove, it will not hesitate to throw your beloved cause under the bus. Both I and the majority of my compatriots have nothing but disdain for the grotesquely chovinistic way in which many of you have chosen to define your country. For heaven's sake, get over the war and rewrite your constitution.
My heart goes out to all the Kelpers out there. Your love of freedom is inspiring, and I am looking forward to visiting you some day. Greetings from Rio de Janeiro!
Thank you ljordao,♥
Jan 24th, 2012 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're welcome, Isolde. By the way, as “chovinistic” is not an English word, please replace it with “chauvinistic”. The Portuguese word we Brazilians associate with many Argentinians is “chovinista”. :)
Jan 24th, 2012 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ljordao nice words, but sadly argies on here will just dismiss them,
Jan 24th, 2012 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0their obsesion with the falklands will tear them apart,
they cant see they are doing anything wrong,
thats what indocrination does to you,
but brazil, will rightly stand up and take its place in the world,
and rightly so,
argentina, is quite happy to remain in the nursery.
ljordao nice words, but sadly argies on here will just dismiss them,
Jan 26th, 2012 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0their obsesion with the falklands will tear them apart,
they cant see they are doing anything wrong,
thats what indocrination does to you,
No Most of Argentine are not indoctrinated.In fact I lived away from Argentina many years.
And Argentina is looking for justice and stopping a bully like uk!
So you do not like,imperialist,britt?/
GO TO HELL!!
We will pursued that objective....Now the nazi brits are “upset”
Who gives a dam about criminals...
Oi! Thicko!! @88 Mavlin used the 'Nazi' word....... therefore your lot loses this debate....
Jan 26th, 2012 - 04:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0#84,jordao: Do you know Curitiba??
Jan 26th, 2012 - 04:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0@88 Malvinero1,
Jan 26th, 2012 - 08:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is no such place as hell.
lts a fairytale created by priests to keep the peons in line.
Something similar to the malvinistas' mythical lslands, the malvinas.
Also a fairytale, as such a place doesn't exist. Not on this planet, anyway.
What's it feel like, malvinero, to stand rightly accused of being a “colonialist”? Because thats what your country is trying to be, colonial!
88 Malvinero1,
Jan 26th, 2012 - 08:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is no such place as hell.
lts a fairytale created by priests to keep the peons in line.
Oh yes isolde....Just wait until the innocent killed and deprived of freedom by the bri empire will come to haunt the brits...You will see what hell is.....No unjustice will get unpaid..
And yes I believe in God,Hell and Heaven..
And Also I believe in MALVINAS ARGENTINAS...
@92 Malvinero1,
Jan 26th, 2012 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thats nice for you, Malvin.
Have fun.
What about all the native Amerindian peoples butchered by Argentines?
What about the Eithiopian tribesmen, that your ancestors, the ltalians, dropped mustard gas on & bombed & machinegunned from the air in 1936. Men defending their country with spears.
Their souls cry out for vengence.
lf you believe in hell then you will experience it when you pass through the gates, Malvinero1.
You hypocritical article, just hope that God has mercy on your soul.
And l also believe in the free Falkland lsles. ldiota.
@92: Marvin: “And Also I believe in MALVINAS ARGENTINAS...”
Jan 26th, 2012 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0And I believed in Father Christmas
And I looked to the sky with excited eyes
Then I woke with a yawn
In the first light of dawn
And I saw him and through his disguise
(Greg Lake, 1975)
You hypocritical article, just hope that God has mercy on your soul.
Jan 26th, 2012 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And l also believe in the free Falkland lsles. ldiota.
AHAHAHAHAH,isolde,sweet girl...
Yes, Malvinero1, I know Curitiba. Have you ever been there?
Jan 26th, 2012 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now then, I wonder if you could answer a few questions. Why are those islands so important for you? Why have you chosen to define your country as a political entity with sovereignty over them? (That was an appallingly poor choice.) What do you think Germany would be today if the vast majority of Germans had not given up on defining their country as a political entity with sovereignty over Gdansk (formerly Danzig)? Why don't you take a leaf from their book and work on redefining your country, so that it can find a mature and peaceful way to prosperity? (Step one: dump your backwards traditions, including Perón's legacy, and put the citizen before the state.)
@92 “Just wait until the innocent killed and deprived of freedom by the bri empire will come to haunt the brits...You will see what hell is.....No unjustice will get unpaid..”
Jan 26th, 2012 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah... You and whos army malviner? or is it a case of your still pissing in the wind in the hope you pee will generate a nuclear explosion lol. ;-)))
Malvinero1
Jan 26th, 2012 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0we dont speak to children
Malvinero1
Jan 26th, 2012 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0we dont speak to children
Really why do you speak to yourself then? Cheetah...2 gen chimp,britton....
I really start to like isolde...but you are beyond repair.....
Yes, Malvinero1, I know Curitiba. Have you ever been there?
Now then, I wonder if you could answer a few questions. Why are those islands so important for you? Why have you chosen to define your country as a political entity with sovereignty over them? (That was an appallingly poor choice.) What do you think Germany would be today if the va
Yes I was in curitiba during the MAlvinas conflict..Strange that many Brazilian expresses the support to me,and many Italo-brazilians expressed a rejoyce for every brits ship sunk.....I also have contact with some powerful people in Brazil...All of them were surprised and glad at the Argentine stregth and resolve..
Do you know the history of Malvinas,jordao???
uk is TOTALLY WRONG....So they can go and live in peace(which they will do shortly)..Now how about the messing around of them in Irak(started really by blair,who pulled the USA)...etc
Argentina on the other hand NEVER BOTHERED THE brits....
I suggest you read history about Malvinas...And yes,I have many friends in Brazil who Support wholeheartedly Malvinas. and Argentina..Talking about imperialism..What a joke,comming from a brits....uk is FINISHED!That is the reality..Watch this...
Jim Rogers the UK is FINISHED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbLfje8_jgI
Saudos
the child utters
Jan 26th, 2012 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0albino;s mutters
both full of excriment .
Yes, Malvinero1, I do know the history of those islands, and even in 1833 the moral worth of your cause was flimsy. What you fail to understand is that from then on whatever was originally acceptable in it has gradually disappeared into oblivion as generations of settlers made the Falkland Islands their only and irreplaceable home. I conjecture that your failure stems from your adoption of a statist political philosophy, i.e., your adoption of a doctrine which gives legitimacy only to sovereignty claims rooted in the will of chiefs of state. In fact, if you accept the pro-Argentina geographical argument, I am sure this is the case. After all, the idea that those islands are a lot closer to Argentina than to the United Kingdom is relevant only for those who completely dismiss the will of the Kelpers, who live precisely ZERO kilometres away from them. I strongly advise you to get rid of this straitjacket, so that you can help your country become a credible democracy. And you have not answered my question about Germany. Let me rephrase it: What do you think Germany would have become if after World War II the majority of Germans had decided to dwell in self-pity?
Jan 26th, 2012 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As to Argentinian strength and resolve, there was nothing remarkable about it. When the fog of Argentinian propaganda finally lifted, the whole world learned of several episodes of cowardly surrender.
As to your powerful Brazilian friends, they are in no way representative of Brazilians. We love visiting Bariloche and Buenos Aires, but at the end of the day most of us do not trust you.
And please make up your mind: either the United Kingdom is strong enough to pull the United States into a war or it is finished. You cannot have both.
The indoctrinated know not what they, it is all written down for them, that’s why he and others keep on repeating things,
Jan 26th, 2012 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They know nothing else, their whole world is built of lies and deceit,
But as long as they get their one dollar, bread and cheese,
They are happy to insult the truth, and hide behind lies.
s to Argentinian strength and resolve, there was nothing remarkable about it. When the fog of Argentinian propaganda finally lifted, the whole world learned of several episodes of cowardly surrender.
Jan 26th, 2012 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As to your powerful Brazilian friends, they are in no way representative of Brazilians. We love visiting Bariloche and Buenos Aires, but at the end of the day most of us do not trust you.
Sure,but again is your opinion....The USA,if you ask the average american,dislike uk.Especially with so many Irish and Welch.The latinos are very strong part,and they all went for Argentina.
Also I have received many letter of support,from Japan,India,Turkey,USA.....but for political reason they support them...
You like Bariloche? Me to.Also Rio and Curitiba....
Any way what counts is the support...and USA will not support uk...
s to Argentinian strength and resolve, there was nothing remarkable about it. When the fog of Argentinian propaganda finally lifted, the whole world learned of several episodes of cowardly surrender.
Admiral Sir John “Sandy” Woodward also said that America now had little interest in supporting Britain in any conflict as a stable Argentina was more important to the State Department.
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, Adml Woodward said Washington was pushing for negotiations over sovereignty and “significantly the islands are already being called the Malvinas by the US”.
With the end of the Cold War and emergence of Asian powers Nato and Britain were not as important to Washington which in 1982 played a significant part in providing satellite intelligence and missiles to British forces.
“We can no longer rely on the Pentagon to support us in helping the islanders in their wish to remain essentially British sovereign territory,” he wrote.
If as is likely significant oil reserves are found around the islands then pressure from Argentina will be immense to share in the riches.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/8571442/Britain-
Malvinero1, your government revoked an agreement with the United Kingdom to cooperate over oil exploration in the waters surrounding the islands. Therefore, you will have only domestic demons to blame if oil starts pouring in and Argentina gets nothing from it.
Jan 27th, 2012 - 01:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0As to the United States, you are no doubt underestimating their political affinity with the United Kingdom. All those who have bet against it have failed miserably, including Galtieri.
More importantly, all you say is to the effect that Argentina will gain sovereignty over the islands, but the burning question of the day is whether or not Argentina can RIGHTLY gain sovereignty over them. If an asteroid hit Great Britain and killed 90% of its inhabitants, the door would be wide open for an Argentinian take-over of the Falkland Islands. However, in spite of its feasibility, such a take-over would still be immoral. Im-mo-ral. Do you realise that your predictions make you sound exactly like an extortionist?
Malvinero1, your government revoked an agreement with the United Kingdom to cooperate over oil exploration in the waters surrounding the islands. Therefore, you will have only domestic demons to blame if oil starts pouring in and Argentina gets nothing from it.
Jan 27th, 2012 - 03:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oil??/Well I understand,and this is something that you may not know,ut Exxon and Shell drilled in the area in the'70....My geologist friend,that drill in the area syas that the probale in the Malvinas basin, is at least 1/1000 probable than in the Argentine continental shelf..No big corporations will invest one cent...No profitable if not support from mailand bases,if they find.
Now according to you..since you blast Argentina's performarce so badly...The Argentines were there.The brits used force against a friend nation,with a treaty of commerce and friedship signed in the 1825....Even if there was a declared war and Argentina lost,a treaty has to follows...No treaty,no cesion.Not even in 1982 was a declaration of war.No treaty followed.....I do not think you have read too much about law.....Argentina invited 6 times to settle the dispute by arbitration..never uk accepted....This had been covered before......There are 10 UNGA res.....The military performance...let see...No long range artillery,inexperienced personnel...No artillery bombardment on the beach head.....However I am glad it was not done....the lost of the brits will have been 3000 .And of course the young soldiers are not responsible for that.....either side..
Galtieri...did you read the opinion of brit adm Woodward????This time noo cold war.The USA state dep.even in 1982 never supported the brits...only weinberger,who was condecorated by the brits...Now the conditions are different.....The illex argentinenses..one of the cash fish.Born in Rio de la plata...fished before Malvinas..very little left...
Now what will Brasil do in a similar situation,jordao???
“Even if there was a declared war and Argentina lost,a treaty has to follow.” Ethics, which in the mind of every reasonable person carries more weight than law, says that the existence of a treaty is not as relevant as you may think. Many, if not most, treaties are the outcome of coercion. A curious consequence of your principle is that in 1833 the British Empire should have dealt out a much rougher treatment to Argentina, so as to force it to sign the piece of paper on whose inexistence you rest the plausibility of your grievance. In other words, you seem to be asking for a more comprehensive beating.
Jan 27th, 2012 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Malvinero1, I will be happy to answer your question about Brazil as soon as you answer my question about Germany.
ljordao, giv it up.
Jan 27th, 2012 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He won't answer you the question about Gdansk, because he knows which direction this leads to.
Germany has not only ceased lamenting about Gdansk, but many other core regions, which belonged to Germany, like Silesia, East-Pommerania, Alsace, Bohemia and other places... and germans get perfectly along with it (and it's neighbours).
Germans have focused on things that really count, but you can't expect this from a population, that uses the claims to divert attention from other internal problems. That's the key...
Germans have focused on things that really count, but you can't expect this from a population, that uses the claims to divert attention from other internal problems. That's the key...
Jan 27th, 2012 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure manrod..teh same as the conservative maggie..Mind you,the mission of Mr Ridley wanted to give up Malvinas......
He won't answer you the question about Gdansk, because he knows which direction this leads to.
Sure I will...I do not have the time to analyze the question........INoo body pays me for this...and I am very busy and making money with my job
@105 Malvinero1
Jan 27th, 2012 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are right about one thing,
“No artillery bombardment on the beach head.....”
Because the British sank the Belgrano with its 6 inch guns before it could get there.
ROYAL NAVAL MISSILES
Jan 27th, 2012 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TRIDENT D-5
SLCM: HUGHES TOMAHAWK IIIC/BLOCK IV
HARPOON
SEA VIPER PAAMS (ASTER)
SEA DART
SEA WOLF
SEA SKUA
FUTURE ANTI-SURFACE GUIDED WEAPON
OTHER MISSILES
http://www.armedforces.co.uk/navy/listings/l0037.html
.
@105 Mavinerol
Jan 27th, 2012 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“My geologist friend,that drill in the area syas that the probale in the Malvinas basin, is at least 1/1000 probable than in the Argentine continental shelf.”
-----
Do you mean that the “Malvinas” basin and the Argentine continental shelf are two distinct separate geographical entities?
ManRod, you are absolutely right. It is a sad spectacle when most of a nation marches in lockstep with a fairy tale. “Sure I will...I do not have the time to analyze the question........INoo body pays me for this...and I am very busy and making money with my job.” Heavens! I do not know whether I should laugh or cry. In the course of three decades my neighbours' minds have not improved one iota. Political indoctrination is more dangerous than plutonium.
Jan 28th, 2012 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Malvinero1, I cannot do everything for you. The bottom line is that you are the only one who can set yourself free.
“Sure manrod..teh same as the conservative maggie”
Jan 28th, 2012 - 12:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0So are you sure to say, that Thatcher convinced Videla to attack the Falklands, in order to divert from her problems at home? She's a real genious then!
“...I do not have the time to analyze the question........INoo body pays me for this...and I am very busy and making money with my job”
But time to answer 10 other posts on this article standalone. Consequence doesn't seem to be a strength of the “Malvinas defenders” in general...
Ljordao... what surprises me most : A nation like Argentina, which in many aspects is a very open minded society, acts so bigoted and unprogressive in this theme. You can expect such reacion on nations like Bolivia, Nicaragua, Haiti, where people easily get indoctrinated... but Argentina? I simply don't get it...
I apologize for this digressive observation, but it must be made: it is quaintly amusing that a Brazilian would be indignant about the chauvinism of Argentines (to be clear, I admit it does exist in some), when the narcisism of many Brazilians is legendary. :)
Jan 28th, 2012 - 06:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0“O mais grande do mundo”... this parlance, as all bromide steretoypes, must contain a scintilla of underlying basis. And this was BEFORE the average Brazilian caught the “arriviste” calenture from the Chileans and Uruguayans. :)
ROYAL NAVAL MISSILES
Jan 28th, 2012 - 07:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0TRIDENT D-5
SLCM: HUGHES TOMAHAWK IIIC/BLOCK IV
HARPOON
SEA VIPER PAAMS (ASTER)
SEA DART
SEA WOLF
SEA SKUA
FUTURE ANTI-SURFACE GUIDED WEAPON
OTHER MISSILE
AHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAH!!
uk foreign debt:9TRILLION pounds....Poor chimp....we will have to get rotten bananas now.
Going back to Germany...First,in international law,even if you loose a DECLARED WAR with a treaty that followed,there is not impending of the loosing country to reclaim what was lost.....
First difference with MAlvinas.
uk ousted the people in MAlvinas,during the peace,after a treaty of frienship signed with Argenina.Second after that,no treaty was followed.
During our recuperations of Malvinas by Argentina,no treaty followed the battle.
In any case there are 10 UNGA resolutions,that said uk has to negotiate..which uk ignored.
For my part,I see no reason why Argentina should do anything different,uk trade is minuscule with Argentina.Argentina is not doing anything illegal.I do not know what is the complain....We do not need uk...The trade with Brazil,Uruguay,Chile and China,India more than suffice our needs.If Germany complains or not...well they can do iit according to international law....Whats is the problem?? 2000 people?
It is ridicouslo,that everybody tells uk to negotiate and they ignora us...Ohhh The Malvinenses do not like it?/Well we do not bother them....We do not tell them,which way to drive or trade etc..What Argentina does with the neigbouring countries is our bussiness.The Malvinenses do not want to even see the Argenines.Argentines are not allowed to settle or buy land.They can enter Argentina without any trouble and they put restrictions to us? The war?/ Was 30 years ago.And to my understandanding the Argentines treated them very well.
So what they complain?/ They have to drive on the left??/
Anywqay I do not give a damn...I think Argentina for many years has tried to be nice..so they do not want any contact..well I do not care..But do not compalin
we do not care about you, .
Jan 28th, 2012 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0@115 Stupid little child!
Jan 28th, 2012 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“First,in international law,even if you loose a DECLARED WAR with a treaty that followed,there is not impending of the loosing country to reclaim what was lost.....” And when was the last time argieland declared war? Certainly didn't do so in 1982. Just the usual cowardly, sneaky, underhand methods.
“uk ousted the people in MAlvinas,during the peace,after a treaty of frienship signed with Argenina” Oh yeah, tell us about this “treaty of frienship”? Date, name, where signed, whether ratified. Making it up again?
“In any case there are 10 UNGA resolutions,that said uk has to negotiate..which uk ignored.” UNGA resolutions are NON-BINDING. 10 year old children know that!
“uk trade is minuscule with Argentina.Argentina is not doing anything illegal.” I hope UK trade with argieland is miniscule. We don't want any of your crap over here. Your interference with the right to innocent passage is illegal. Your economic “warfare” against the Falkland Islands is a breach of the UN Charter.
“And to my understandanding the Argentines treated them very well.” Like locking up over a hundred people in a hall for several days with no food? Like leaving your faeces all over peoples' homes?
“I think Argentina for many years has tried to be nice” Joke! Yeah, argieland tried being “nice” for a few years, until it realised that the Falklanders weren't going to “forget” the invasion and the occupation and clamour to be part of argieland. Then it got nasty again.
As for “compalining”, or did you mean “complaining”, we'll all complain as long, as loud and as often as we like. Nothing you can do about it.
But please try again if you wish. I am personally in favour, should you do so, of making your casualty totals a thousand times greater than they were in 1982. That'll give you something to really have a cry about!
Tobias, I am perfectly aware of the Brazilian variety of narcissism. I live in Rio de Janeiro, which many Brazilians are fond of proclaiming as the most beautiful city on earth. (Of course, the folks who say such things have never visited Stockholm or Prague.) The tacky pretentiousness of at least two of our national symbols (the flag and the anthem) is second to none. Well, I could spend hours adding to this list. Self-absorption and show-offs are still part of our national identity. But the number of Brazilians who detest these features has been growing steadily. You are very welcome to take a swipe at any obstacles to my country's full maturity.
Jan 28th, 2012 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yet I cannot let pass the opportunity to point out that you have committed an ad hominem. The soundness or unsoundness of an argument to the effect that many Argentinians bear a pathological level of chauvinism does not depend on who presents it, no matter whether he is a narcissistic Brazilian or the most fervently imperialist Briton. (The only exceptions to this rule are the arguments involving the appeal to the arguer's authority, which I have not made here.)
Well, admittedly ljordao, I did make use of empirical observation.
Jan 28th, 2012 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But to label my commentary an ad hominem, when I never attempted to discredit your argument with my opinion (in fact I explicitly made certain to point out admission of the very point you bruited about: “I admit it does exist”), in my humble opinion is inaccurate.
I am not aware of how the Brazilian flag shows pretentiousness—I'm not conversant with the matter. If it does let me be clear I would never denounce that anyways. National pride suffused in national colors and symbols is completely acceptable to me; I never shall take up issue with it.
The only time I personally make it a point of pillorying excessive chauvinism is when it is performed by individuals in a bumptious and impudent fashion, especially by those who use it to aggrandize themselves and to derogate others, and otherwise demonstrate little in the way of self-achievement (thus patently making usufruct of the achievements of the “whole”, their nationality simply due to birth). This is what I have done in this forum towards a few contributors which clearly utilize this jejune strategy.
Finally, I'm not one of those people who launches strictures against other nations at a fundamental level, and I won't do that here with Brazil either; however, I am quite open to praising those attributes which are outstanding in others :)
“In any case there are 10 UNGA resolutions,that said uk has to negotiate..which uk ignored”
Jan 28th, 2012 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a selective memory you have Malvinero. The last UNGA resolution was in 1988. The UK negotiated with Argentina and the very next year came to an agreement with Argentina, the sovereignty umbrella. The UK has complied with the UN resolutions. Argentina has withdrawn from that 1989 agreement and others which flowed from it. That's Argentina's problem. It is a bit rich to say the UK won't negotiate, when it did and they you withdrew from the agreements. No wonder nobody takes you guys seriously.
What a selective memory you have Malvinero. The last UNGA resolution was in 1988. The UK negotiated with Argentina and the very next year came to an agreement with
Jan 28th, 2012 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still in effect roberts pinochio.Or you still belive the lies of lordtrash about the UNGA res...
uk is a rogue country..very soon they will be espelled.
Pugol,about the artillery..
Did you read about the brits disliking the 155 mm shelling by Argentina....Well we had and have many of those........They could have shelled anytime they wanted if available.....Still the air force shake the RN pretty bad.....
Ignorant: Read before writting pugol...
MALVINAS: WE WILL RETURN...
ls that a threat of another (failed)invasion, Malvinero1?
Jan 28th, 2012 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What are you going to return?
You haven't got OUR lslands, so you can't return those to us.
lt would be nice if you could return the lives of the men who were killed.
Killed because YOUR country INVADED OURS.
Do you think of those men when you pray at night, Malvinero1?
You ought to & you ought to feel guilty & deeply ashamed for the actions of your country.
Who will pay, Malvinero1? lts no use you saying to the devil,
“oh it wasn't us, it was the junta” he will just laugh at you.
The time is coming, Malvinero1, when debts have to be repaid.
Are you ready?
So, NO. YOU WILL NOT RETURN.
@121 Malverino
Jan 28th, 2012 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The 155s make nice museum pieces conmerating 30 years since our victory over your utterly contemptible 1982 colonialist invasion.
Now an impression of what malverino would do at this stage ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahah......or some other such codswollop......
You are'nt going to get the islands, forget it. The Falklanders will never let you use port stanley as a toilet again.....
To all those Malvinistas who like the UKs papers - usually because they think they recommend abject surrender to the enemy, here's a report form Argentina.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/28/falkland-islands-belong-argentina
Despite the display of the link it's an expose of those in your country who oppose you. Apparently they are a minority, but they are growing in numbers.
Unusually it's a Guardian article too (normally the 1st paper to back anywhere in the world other than the Uk). How mr think normally likes his left wing surrender rag too, I bet he'll be disappointed.
These are mainly people who have actually been to the islands, and realised that they want nothing to do with you, that the falklanders are human beings with a right to have a say what happens in their own land instead of objects to be removed or ground under.
By the way, I was reading the Argentine version of events on your navies website today. You missed out quite a bit did'nt you. As an outsider you can see that the contempt for the falklander just drips off the page - “usurpers” being the key word.
Despite the display of the link it's an expose of those in your country who oppose you. Apparently they are a minority, but they are growing in numbers.
Jan 29th, 2012 - 03:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Unusually it's a Guardian article too (normally the 1st paper to back anywhere in the world other than the Uk). How mr think normally likes his left wing surrender rag too, I bet he'll be disappointed.
Sure by the wave AGAINST brit imperialism is Groving a lot STRONGER.Not only Brazil,Chile,ArgentinaUSA.but in Europe,they are FEED UP at the brits stupidity.Even brits,are fed up of that..Never talked with people in Oxford or Cambridge about the issue???
In the conservative party is growing the opinion(specially now that the oil prospects does not look good),that the negotiation and and end to the nonsense has to come....
No wonder why the brits are soo incompetent,that even a small country like uk,cannot them hold together.Scotland,Wales,Ireland....Oh my God,How Stupid a nation can be!!
Glad I do not live with those idiots!
@124 You're talking rubbish, as usual, Malverino. The world really does'nt care about your claims to the Falklands.
Jan 29th, 2012 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0The support from your neighbours is tepid. If the best they can do is ask us not to fly the Falklands flag, but change it for a red duster, we really don't have a lot to fear do we.
Most Brits, including myself, don't give a damn what europe thinks about us, and in fact a growing number of us would like to tell the EU to get lost. It would'nt help you one bit in your claims if we did either.
Your claim about our govt wanting to talk to you is a fantasy, they will give you nothing, and you know it.
As to Scotland going independent. That called democracy, if they want to do that, it's up to them. Only a really stupid person would'nt understand that concept.
You remind me a bit of A Hitler, when he famously stated about Russia “one kick and the whole rotten edifice will come crashing down”. Well it did - it fell in on his head and crushed him like a ton of bricks. The same that we'll do to you if your lot try anything military again.
Besides your own armed forces displayed the biggest sort of incompetence imaginable, underestimating the resolve of their victims to resist aggression. You are likewise guilty of the same act of folly.
I will be celebrating Argentine military incompetence this year - 30 years since your disasterous invasion and 30 years of epic failure to achieve anything else meaningful since then.
If you want to talk about incompetence, I don't understand why Argentina is'nt a much richer and more powerful country than it is now, you have everything going for you in terms of area and resources. That looks like incompetence to me.
hey Malverino, you missed my previous question:
Jan 29th, 2012 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0----------
@105 Mavinerol
“My geologist friend,that drill in the area syas that the probale in the Malvinas basin, is at least 1/1000 probable than in the Argentine continental shelf.”
-----
Do you mean that the “Malvinas” basin and the Argentine continental shelf are two distinct , separate geographical entities?
Thanks! Gracias, che.
Do you mean that the “Malvinas” basin and the Argentine continental shelf are two distinct , separate geographical entities?
Jan 29th, 2012 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No they are the same,but just to let you point out what the britis criminals,said about the extent of the MAlvinas basin..The brits can not touch the Argentine continental shelf...To me I do not consider that.Only the brit military(for now) are claiming that..
Ireland and Argentina united forever! Dignity and courage are words that can describe the great Irish spirit! Cromwell's genocide on your great land shall never be forgotten.
Jan 29th, 2012 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzjkX9AYMYQ&feature=related
Helger malarga.
Jan 29th, 2012 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I´m Chilean, and I guess you have some mental problems since you are attacking us without any reason besides your blind point of view specially when you fill your mouth to speak about chilean expansionism since the only expansionist country is yours. Not for nothing, everybody knows that the most dangerous thing, is an argentinian drawing a map. And how to forget “operacion soberanía” to get the chilean islands with all the clucking of your dictators at the time. That finally went to nothing because your sailors retreated cowardly when they knew that the Chilean navy was close.
Argentina and and erm mmmm well anyone for ever,
Jan 29th, 2012 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The British will remain united, the British will defend the Falklands,
The British will do it alone if we have to,
We don’t need allies, and the argentines people are being lied to, to such an extent that even decent argentine people, more and more are questioning this, they know the islands are British, and on one has a right to claim them other that the islanders themselves.
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@121 Malvinero1
Jan 31st, 2012 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There was no Argentinian artilley bigger than a mortar in range of the landing beaches at San Carlos, one of the reasons it was chosen, and then the mortars were attacked by special forces as the landings began and never fired. In the event is was an unopposed landing for the assult troops.
Where artillery was deployed, such as Goose Green, it was destroyed by air attacks.
However Argentinian artillery did fire on positions round Stanley like Tumbledown as the British were attacking them. Problem was your own troops were still defending them at the time.
Your Air Force did cause some problems for the British, the only Argentinian armed force that did frankly speaking, but you lost your Air Force doing it.
Where artillery was deployed, such as Goose Green, it was destroyed by air attacks......... which one?
Jan 31st, 2012 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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