MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
BAE yards threatened once Royal Navy carriers are delivered in 2018, warn unions
Britain should bring forward orders for a new generation of navy frigates to help BAE Systems bridge a production hiatus that’s threatening its warship-making capabilities and 6.000 engineering jobs, the Unite union revealed. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThe UK defence industry will have some interesting dilemmas re contract placement for warships, etc.
Jan 31st, 2012 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0As England will have no interest in preserving employment in Scotland after independence, the Glasgow shipyards will have to pitch competitively for build projects against English yards.
There will certainly be no place for two Clyde shipyards, so there will inevitably be major job losses once Scotland becomes independent.
Still, England could treat the Scots a bit more like the Gurkas - the source of warriors; just like the English did with Irishmen in days of Empire.
This Article says :
Jan 31st, 2012 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No:1Europe Weapon said this month it had begun a study into future
options for yards in SCotland and Portsmouth..........
I say :
When Scotland declares independence ,it is also likely that the UK will be forced to find a new place for its four Trident submarines which are based at Faslane ,around from 25 miles from Glasgow....!............
“the Glasgow shipyards will have to pitch competitively for build projects against English yards.”
Jan 31st, 2012 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think you've thought that through at all. The RN won't have another nation build it's ships. They'll just move the work down south.
I'd bet quite a few of the current ship workers would just move south if the work all moved with it.
As the election is not until 2014, why bother,
Jan 31st, 2012 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its years away, anything can happen next week, let alone another 3 years away .
.
The UK nuclear force WILL move south. Together with the nuclear weapons storage. BAE in Scotland will move its operations. Either to England, or perhaps the Harland and Wolff yard in Northern Ireland.
Jan 31st, 2012 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Defence contracts will NOT be placed in Scotland.
Scottish “workers” will not be allowed into the UK to work on defence contracts. Digging sewers by hand is a possibility.
Scottish “workers” may not even be allowed into the UK. Scotland will be viewed as actually or potentially “hostile”.
I doubt the English remember how to make ships, they better be nice to the Scots :-)
Jan 31st, 2012 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not sure that the UK - which will continue to exist even if 'independence' is afforded to Scotland - will remove its defense industries, shipyard and maintainance industries from Scotland. England and the UK have little to gain from seeing Scotland become a regressed underdeveloped, under-employed and insecure nation.
Feb 01st, 2012 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Defence remains a 'United' Kingdom activity, because the external threats are greater than the internal ones, and defending whole islands is somewhat easier than defending internal land borders (even the Roman Hadrian appreciated this, but with long supply lines he opted for the wall; Offa thought a Dyke would suffice). Today, neglecting the Northern approaches would be like the US leaving open its Canadian border to circum-polar incursion.
No, the ties that bind are much stronger than the forces of separation. Unfortunately, in a democracy, nations are at the mercy of the vagaries of the voters - and voters seldom vote with 20-20 vision. The leader of the ScotNats knows this and this is why he is providing a 'third way' get-out-of-jail option for his referendum.
“I'm not sure that the UK”
Feb 01st, 2012 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is a simple matter. The RN does not have foreign nations build it's warships, It is that simple. The government has already made it perfectly clear that if Scotland does opt for independence, Scotland will not have defence contracts from the RN.
“England and the UK have little to gain from seeing Scotland ”
It's not about that. At all. We could easily buy from the Americans and get great deals on ships, probably better than what we do now. We don't however because we prefer to support our own nations defence industry.
Scotland no longer being a part of the nation, We would have no desire to support there defence industry. The work would move south to give people still within the UK jobs.
It is an absolute 100% guarantee that if Scotland opts for independence that the RN will move it's work south.
Don't think so, #8.
Feb 01st, 2012 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Defence is not a matter for the individual nations of the UK. It is a unified package within other unified packages - Europe/NATO. Procurement is to ensure cross-compatability, and manufacture is not presently restricted to England; it will be even less so in the future. Presently the UK is in partnership with France for carrier build/operation - who would have thought that! We have big armaments purchase programmes from the US, and they have reciprocated in the past, though most Americans think that the Harrier was one of theirs.
some think that England does not build ships anymore,, interesting as England not only STILL builds ships but has quite a few ship yards to do it with,
Feb 01st, 2012 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“GeoffWard2”
Feb 04th, 2012 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'll repeat it. The RN does not have foreign nation's build it's warships. This is a fact that will not change.
It has already been stated that if Scotland gains independence(By the defence minister) they will not have ship building contracts from the RN.
It's not hard to understand.
All of our large Procurement is 90% British based or has some British involvement. The JSF has a large British involvement with BAE, The EF completely designed by BAE.
We have a deal to jointly operate carriers with France and they might use our designs, Still a British design.
You might not think so but like i have stated, it has already been confirmed by the government that if Scotland gains independence the RN warship contracts WILL move south.
You seem to think that the Royal Navy is English.
Feb 05th, 2012 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't know where you got this idea from.
From the idea that the RN is run by Westminster, And west minister is in England.
Feb 06th, 2012 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If all the parts of the UK broke apart you would have several different navys. Scottish royal navy, Welsh royal navy. Just like the royal austrialian navy and canadian navy.
The RN however would still be run from England.
Could also be due to the fact that the RN was created before the acts of union and was Infact an English navy.
Feb 06th, 2012 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Royal Scots Navy was Scotlands naval force. It was absorbed into the RN at the act of union.
The only significant public reporting of the issue has been the Guardian feature on Alec Salmond's (the de facto leader of Scotland) proposals for restructuring of the Scottish Defense policy.
Feb 07th, 2012 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It has come in for immense criticism and hilarity.
Whilst it is by no means an easy circle to square, the first stab at it by the Scot Nats has been inauspicious, to say the least.
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