MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
“Argentina is not a country you’d want to be associated with”, says Falklands’ MLA
Falkland Islands lawmaker Mike Summers accused Argentina of acting as a “schoolyard bully” trying to take sweets from others and described as intolerable that a country of that size should be trying to bully a country of 3.000 people into submission. “It’s a country you’d not want to be associated with”. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesIt's not the Prince of Wales (Prince Charles) that is an Air Sea Rescue pilot out in the Falkands, it's his son the Duke of Cambridge (Prince William)
Feb 18th, 2012 - 03:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0mike: YOU ARE A LIAR!!
Feb 18th, 2012 - 04:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Down with these squatters!!
Falkland Islands lawmaker Mike Summers
Feb 18th, 2012 - 04:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0says it all really.....
Mercopress is really going to great lengths to interview un biased people on the issue at hand *faceplam*
WTF is *faceplam8 or even *facepalm*?????? Do you keep smacking yourself around the head..? Mind you that would explain a lot.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 04:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think you will find a lot more people will be reading that interview in the LA Times than reads the ramblings of Titman and KFC........
Argentina has lost the war of words methinks......
Dear Mr Summers: No one is asking you to “like” Argentina. Argentina has said numerous times that the islands would remain quite autonomous. You are jumping to xenophobic conclusions when there has been no negotiations on how such a transition would be. And if you do not like that arrangement, you and your 2000 other friends are free to fly over to the Shetland Islands and fish over there. What nerve! A bunch of people who couldn't make up a neighborhood in Buenos Aires demand a State on usurped lands and moan about a country with legitimate claims requesting a peaceful negotiation.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 07:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are jumping to xenophobic conclusions
Feb 18th, 2012 - 07:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0you and your 2000 other friends are free to fly over to the Shetland Islands and fish over there
Fecking mad hypocrite's the lot of you
@5 'the islands would remain quite autonomous'... Like last time you thieving dagoes got your grubby hands on them?
Feb 18th, 2012 - 07:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0What nerve! A bunch of people who couldn't make up a neighborhood in Buenos Aires
Feb 18th, 2012 - 07:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0What like this one you mean
Half a million families live in Buenos Aires slums and keep expanding vertically and horizontally
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/10/07/half-a-million-families-live-in-buenos-aires-slums-and-keep-expanding-vertically-and-horizontally
I see our resident Argies do not like this. Such is the way when they realise they are too weak and insignificant to do anything. US congressman visiting the Islands while farm-in negotiations with Anadarko continue.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 08:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Self-pity is a terrible Argie affliction ;-)
To 8:
Feb 18th, 2012 - 08:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sadly, poverty exists in most countries.
In the UK there are 13 million poor people. That is 1 in 5 according to Oxfam. Of course, they won't be as poor as the people living in the slum in Argentina but still they may have difficulties to have enough food, heat in their house, saved money or adequate clothing.
How exactly does the Islanders contribute to fight poverty in the UK? Is it in their interest? There must be some money they could send to the UK to pay, at least something, for what the UK spends on the Islands.
Every penny counts! You can make a difference!
This is a very good article and nice to see that more people are being educated as to what the Falkland Islanders want, NOT the Argentines the Americans or anyone else!
Feb 18th, 2012 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's all very frustrating but i keep reminding myself that we should expect nothing else really, self pitying Argentines do make me feel quite nauseous though!
@5 “if you do not like that arrangement, you and your 2000 other friends are free to fly over to the Shetland Islands and fish over there”, otherwise called 'ethnic cleansing'
Feb 18th, 2012 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0“A bunch of people who couldn't make up a neighborhood in Buenos Aires demand a State on usurped lands and moan about a country with legitimate claims requesting a peaceful negotiation.”
it's about time we squash this little diego insurgency in our South Atlantic estate. Any move on the Falklands by Frau Kommandant Kirchner should result in cruise missiles on Buenes Aires. We need to help the native indians to reclaim what's righfully theirs: Argentina back to the Indians
Feb 18th, 2012 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0@2 What does that make you then? And how long have you been squatting in South America? Don't forget, if you speak Spanish or Portuguese as your “natural” language, you're a squatter in South America!
Feb 18th, 2012 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0@3 I do like the idea of you smacking yourself across the face at regular intervals, half-breed. As Frank says, it explains a lot. Have you achieved the latest version of the Stockholm syndrome? So accustomed to the peninsulares and criollos smacking you around you've got to like it?
@5 You have a problem, sonny. Please explain how a country that has been present on the Islands for 322 years can be said to have “usurped” anything from a bunch of rebel European colonists who have illegally occupied the territory for a grand total of 4 years and 2 months (including April-June 1982)? But you can have a peaceful solution any time you like. SHUT UP!!
@10 Why should the Falkland Islands be expected to send any money to the UK? With the exception of defence and aspects of foreign affairs, the Falkland Islands are SELF-GOVERNING! The UK set it up that way and is quite happy, thank you.
This is what would happen if these psychopathic creatures got their grubby little hands on the Falkland Islands.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Look at how Argentina looks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HohRNEJEKE&feature=relmfu
Look at how the Falkland's is run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HohRNEJEKE&feature=relmfu
The pathetic creatures can only drool over what their country could be like but never will be because they do not have the backbone to get rid of people like the bitch with the plastic face. I have no patience none what so ever for people that can’t take their own destiny in their own hands and let people like that bitch walk all over them
Hitler: “the entire German nation experiences it with you, and I, too, am aware of the greatness of the hour when I, for the first time, tread on the soil which German settlers occupied five centuries ago and which for five centuries was German, and which - thereof you may rest assured - will remain German. ... ”
Feb 18th, 2012 - 11:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hitler: “Poland will be depopulated and settled with Germans. My pact with the Poles was merely conceived of as a gaining of time.”
Hmm, I was wondering where I'd heard those neo-peronist speeches from Eternal Leader Nestor and KFC from. You would have thought they could have written something original rather than just plagiarized them from Adolf.
@5Troneas,
Feb 18th, 2012 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately for you, your country DOES NOT have a legitimate claim.
These ARE NOT your lslands.
Your country is a would be thief.
You, yourselves are squatters in Argentina.
An“implanted”population.
When will you go back to Europe & return Argentina to its rightful, legitimate owners, the native peoples?
Hypocrite.
About the prince...the duque.....in other threads it was said he came here to make a militar job, to give humanitarian help and recue, and a british poster said that helicopters recue concretelly do this: “rescuing people from fishing boats, road traffic accidents, medical emergency or giving medicines to fishing ships, etc”
Feb 18th, 2012 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and? where are the rescues? make simulacros, if he is not well trainned yet for such a risky profession.
@18 Here's one example (http://en.mercopress.com/2012/02/13/seven-crew-members-abandon-jigger-in-falklands-but-later-decide-to-return). The Falklands SaR teams helped to rescue some Vietnamese who were bobbing around in the harbour and then returned them to their ship rather than repatriating them. All in a days job for a citizen of the UK.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Malen, haven't you got some more important economic blockading to do rather than just look ignorant on a comments board?
greek bagre(on) dont you understand my beautiful english??
Feb 18th, 2012 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0did your duke save the vietnamese???
that would be glorious.............
I like to see him, he is so good looking.........
uk poverty,and the stupid brits spend 300 milions for NOTHING!
Feb 18th, 2012 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0More UK children in poverty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rmaEW3qIU0
@23 “So who are they? People like Barbara from Nottingham, a single mother with three children. She lives on benefits and has enough for the basics but nothing else *as she hands out three full plates full of food*”. In the UK, the poverty line seems to be set somewhere in the middle classes. In the rest of the world, it's where you just cannot afford food.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well done on putting a link to a video that in no way supports your argument.
19 GreekYoghurt
Feb 18th, 2012 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think Malen's point is that Wills is here to do some training, and therefore isn't properly qualified to do his job. I think she must work in some kind of job like.... actually I can't think of any job where you never do any training to learn new skills.
Anyway, the fact that he isn't properly trained is why he didn't rescue the Vietnamese fishermen......oh no, sorry, it was because they swam ashore by themselves so he didn't need to.
I've always suspected Malen of being a British troll, as she manages to make even the dimmest of us look intelligent.
Argentina is not a country you’d want to be associated with”, says Falklands’ MLA
Feb 18th, 2012 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So why in 1989 did this man return to the British colony after 26 years away from them.Did he ignore argentina's claim and become a squatter and occupier in argentine territory.
Down with the Argentinian invaders. Give back Argentina to the native Indians! (what is left of them). The rightful owner of the land will stop the corruption and waste of the land resources. Once the indians back in charge they will gain Argentina (renamed Booluboolu) the world respect it has lost since the circus people invaded.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@23 She's probably been in the gimp-mask for too long and suffered from a period of oxygen deprivation.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Malen: “Where's the proof of him being a SaR pilot?”
Oneself: “Here”
Malen: *silence*
Oneself: “Hmm...”
@24 Don't try to be a schoolyard child and use 'squatting', a term currently and freely used for Argentinians, in describing the Islanders. Your country has a long a tortuous history of illegal squatting in places that you have no legal ownership.
“Squatting: 1. to settle on or occupy property, especially otherwise unoccupied property, without any title, right, or payment of rent; see Argentina. 2. to crouch down or cower, as an animal; See Argentinians.”
Monty you are so funny
Feb 18th, 2012 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I didnt speak of the vietnameses, it was your greek griend. Fortunatelly they knew how to swim.
Im just saying that you can invent sth, as your dukes jobs is public, so he can practice going from Mt Pleaseant to the hospital, or to the Dauntless, for ex.
We will beat u and continue to beat all u colonial piartes until u cease to exist.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0U is on our land, this land belong to Argentina before Argentina exist. this land gifted to Spain by papal bull 1493. U can not argue with papal bull.
We give u chance to be reborn Argentine like great hero James Peck, unlike his father who helped British re-occupy our land, James Peck is brave and a true patriot. He is central tool of our propaganda war. He allow himself to be used like true Argentine nationalist.
Colonial pirates go hell.
@28 I personally find it very difficult to argue with the ramblings of the head of a religious organisation who until recently were handing out indulgences for money, used to go to war for money, were typically dynastic and more recently have had an endemic problem with widespread pederasty affecting their ability to mediate between their sheep and the big G man. Add a distinct connection to the Nazi youth and addiction to praying to dessicated limbs of long dead in a furious celebration of idolatry, and I'm thinking ... how could I begin to argue with a papal bull.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you want to go to the UN and say 'Papal Bull' as a reason for your constitutional demands to annex a fledgling democracy? I would like to be there when you do.
Piracy is on the sea not on dry land, like islands for example.
More UK children in poverty
Feb 18th, 2012 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you want to go there Malvinero1 ?
Dying from hunger in food-exporting Argentina
At least 10 indigenous children have died from malnutrition in north-west Argentina this year. How could this be happening in one of the world's biggest food-exporting countries?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-12973543
Argentina fined for experimenting vaccines in babies from poor families
Since 2007, 15.000 children under the age of one from Mendoza, San Juan and Santiago del Estero have been included in the research protocol, a statement of what the study is trying to achieve. Babies were recruited from poor families that attended to public hospitals.
A total of 7 babies died in Santiago del Estero; 5 in Mendoza; and 2 in San Juan.
OhhhSticky how bad is Argentina...it is too bad that many brittons choose to live there...I prefer 1000 times to live in Argentina than in the uk......AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAH
Feb 18th, 2012 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How stupid the brits in this forum..I just laugh at this good for nothing imbeciles...
@30 Medical testing on poor children and endemic indigenous poverty is not relevant to Sean Penn's interests (http://www.topnews.in/light/files/Sean-Penn.jpg).
Feb 18th, 2012 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@3 Something meaningful to say, half-breed?
Feb 18th, 2012 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@21 I see you didn't answer my question, SQUATTER.
@24 Perhaps, after winning a scholarship, and pursuing his education, he chose to return to the land of his birth. Still free despite failed argie attempts at THEFT!
@28 See whether you can understand this. You couldn't beat a carpet. Oh, yes, the papal bull. Fortunately, neither Britain nor the Falkland Islands are Roman Catholic. So you can stuff your papal bull where the sun don't shine. Besides, the 21st century papacy says that bull is, well, bullsh*t. GENOCIDAL land-grabbers, you're going to die!
@31 Hello, malvinprick. We like you in argieland. Can we explain your future? Keep going the way you are and you will end up as a shadow on a wall. Despite my age, I really wish I could come down to rip a bayonet through your guts. Except that you wouldn't have the bottle to go anywhere you might stub your toe. Simple knowledge. Argie = coward. By the way, 1 Brit = 1,000 argies (minimum). Could you provide one, just one, item of proof that you would dare cross a defended Falklands beach? Next time there won't just be 80 Royal Marines. Though they would have faced your 60,600 troops. Next time there will be enough troops to kill thousands of argies. But however many thousands, it will not be enough. You don't have enough to let us kill enough of you c*cksuckers!
For the time being, THE FALKLAND ISLANDS ARE BRITISH.
And when the time is right, THE FALKLAND ISLANDS WILL BE INDEPENDENT FALKLAND ISLANDS TERRITORY.
Be a proper person. Kill an argie every day!
IN reality who realy owns or who does the falklands belong to good ? in 2012
Feb 18th, 2012 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How stupid the brits in this forum..I just laugh at this good for nothing imbeciles
Feb 18th, 2012 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You forgot
I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
How you English say, 'I one more time unclog my nose in your direction', sons of a window-dresser! So, you think you could out-clever us Argie folk with your silly knees-bent running about advancing
No chance, English bed-wetting types. I burst my pimples at you and call your door-opening request a silly thing, you tiny-brained wipers of other people's bottoms!
@35 LOL. So true, the ramblings must be a troll.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is nothing unexpected that Mike makes this kind of appraisal of Argentina. No matter who governs Argentina, no matters how the economic, social and political conditions in Argentina were, Mike Summers would make the same statement. He has forgotten nine basic things :
Feb 18th, 2012 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) It is the UK that expelled Argentina from the islands in 1833, not viceversa. It is the UK that refused to discuss with Argentina since 1833 onwards (with the exception of 1966-1982, after the UN adoption of Resolution 2065). It was the UK that created the problem of British subjects living on Argentine territory, not Argentina
2) The UK negotiated with the Comunist Government of China –even before the end of the Cold War- the transfer of Hong-Kong.
3) the Falkland Islands (Malvinas) is not the only situation of a national minority living in islands under the sovereignty of another State. This is the case of the Aaland Islands, inhabited by Swedish, but under Finland’s sovereignty. English and Spanish language are by far closer than Finish and Swedish, believe me…
4) Mike knows very well that Argentina is ready to accept the largest self-government imaginable in order to maintain the current way of life in the islands.
5) Argentina did not start to raise the Falkland Islands (Malvinas) issue with Peron in the 1950s. Anyone having read sth about the history of the islands knows that it was long before.
6) It is not true that there is no freedom of press in Argentina. Mike himself is often interviewed in the Argentine media and you have Argentines writing from time to time defending similar Mike’s position.
7) British propaganda efforts aims at showing David versus Goliath exactly in the opposite way that exist in this dispute : it is the UK that is in a position of force and do everything to keep it, even breaching the basic obligation of settlement of international disputes using the available peaceful means
8) In matters of corruption, I don’t believe the UK has a recent good record, isn’t it ?
17 We will give back this land to the rightfull owner when all the british people living in Australia, New Zeland, Canada, etc. give back the land to the rightfull owners. Oh! I forgot ! you exterminate them, shame of you !!!!!!!!
Feb 18th, 2012 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Post 37, A great deal of your assumptions are factually incorrect.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. When has Argentina owned the territory? I will give you a clue, it has NEVER owned the territory and the 1833 event you keep rambling on about was an illegal occupation of British territory.
2. You claim to know history but then post something on fact 2 that is blatantly incorrect or deliberately misleading (you decide which you were aiming for). The UK didn't have any choice but to negotiate since it did not own the land but leased it and when China decided the lease was up and didn't want to renew it, the UK had to accept that.
3. Irrelevant to the topic.
4. Mike knows Argentina has proven itself not trustworthy, heck over the past couple hundred years if Argentina has done anything consistently its this, so why would anyone choose to trust a Government that is rife with corruption and lies on the world stage constantly.
5. Arguable.
6. It is true that there is no free press in Argentina after the recent moves, one would be suing economists for producing figures the Argentine government doesn't like.
7. Please post the exact law the UK has broken.
8. Comparing UK corruption to Argentina's is hilarious. In this respect the UK are amateurs compared to the pro's of Argentina.
@39 I just waved my confirmation-bias-O-meter at post @37 and because of the massive amounts of omitted information the needle bent around the top limit, and the whole thing burst into flames.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Moral to the tale, don't trust an argentinian to serve up facts.
Thepoint about the British using the indigenous people to justify their occupation of the Malvinas is that it is a poor excuse.They have no care for the situation of the indigenous,they don't even know what lands were a particular nations land,anywhere in the world.They are guilty of the same actions against indigenous people,and when non-indigenous people join with the indigenous tribes they accuse them,in insulting language,of insincerity.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Which of these spineless people commented positively to the assault of 24 protesters by police this last week.I can remember,and respect that person for that.I also remember who didn't and there is enough of them on this thread.
This man ,mike summers,did not get 26years of education,he sorbed for most of those years as a British persons,and then returned to his role as an occupier.Those are the facts,why is 33# the conkerer not clear in his description of summers biography,is it because he doesn't know but makes excuses without knowledge but with prejudice.I know why.
Mike Summers is 100% right!
Feb 18th, 2012 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Philippe
41 Yuleno
Feb 18th, 2012 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mike Summers was born here, went away, came back. That's island life pal, lots of people do it. And guess what; it's absolutley none of your business.
I've told you before, we don't make a big deal about where people came from or how long they've been here, and neither should you. It's thoroughly distasteful.
If 1833 had any insignificance or it held any water, you would have the islands buy now, the world and the UN is not interested in 1833,
Feb 18th, 2012 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Today we have democracy, freedom to choose who governs you,
And as long as they with to be British, there is not a thing you can do,
You live in the past, you dwell in the past and you operate from the past,
The world moves on, either move with it, or get left behind,
Because [really] no one cares about your claim and no one in interested .
.
@41 you are comedian. Perhaps we should give you an idea what occupation means by invading Argentina. At least then you would have a fighting chance to experience a decent democratic leadership.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@41 Let me try to explain something to you, brain-dead. I call you brain-dead because you seem to be incapable of even copying letters. How do you turn “Conqueror”, the name of an exceptional British submarine that we can proudly say tore the bottom/side out of a stinking argie cruiser, into “conkerer”.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Which is it that doesn't work? Eyes, fingers or brain?
There is some reason we should care about argie benefit scroungers? We don't. What a good idea that argie police, probably mistakenly, beat them. The only important question is why the police didn't beat them into jelly pulp that could be flushed away with a fire hose? As for your first, incoherent, paragraph. You must take account of the fact that you are IMPORTED, IMPLANTED, RAPIST, GENOCIDAL SETTLERS. YOU are not indigenous. YOU are invaders. By current definitions, every one of you is a WAR CRIMINAL. Do you call yourself argentine? You're not. You're Spanish. Comparison. The Falkland Islanders arrived on uninhabited islands and made a life for themselves. YOU arrived in an inhabited territory and killed and raped the occupants until you could take it over. Argies are MURDERERS. Proud of yourself?
Mad as hatters
Feb 18th, 2012 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0MANILA, Philippines—Argentine boxer Luis Lazarte was banned for life for threatening the referee and sparking an ugly riot right after losing to Filipino fighter Johnriel Casimero in their IBF interim flyweight title fight in Buenos Aires, last week.
Internet reports said the boxing body imposed the penalty against the 40-year-old Lazarte, whose reputation for being a dirty fighter took a new dimension when he was quoted as telling referee Eddie Claudio “do you want to get out of here alive?” after he docked a point for repeated punches to Casimero’s head.
Claudio stopped the fight in the 10th following Lazarte’s third knockdown and bedlam ensued as Lazarte and his fans ganged up on Casimero and his corner in a shocking scene that has been replayed by TV stations and gone viral in the Internet.
IBF president Daryl Peoples sent a letter to the Argentine Boxing Federation Osvaldo Bisbal informing him of the decision.
Peoples was reported to have said in the letter: “I believe that I do not have to express to you that Lazarte’s threat to Claudio, which [is clear] in the telecast, is completely unacceptable, should not be taken lightly and merits punishment. Behavior of this nature by a fighter is not and will not be tolerated.”
Typical butthurt Argie cannot take losing.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Los Angeles Times complete questions
Feb 18th, 2012 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What do you make of what Sean Penn said? [The actor has taken Argentina’s side in the dispute, saying “the world today is not going to tolerate any ludicrous and archaic commitment to colonialist ideology,” the Associated Press reported Monday.]
“Good luck to Sean Penn. I don’t think many people [care] what Sean Penn thinks”
Really Mike? See how many articles you can find on the web about his support to Argentina and see how many you can find about your interview.
“I’ve heard that the vast majority of Falklanders want to stay under British sovereignty. Has the issue of British vs. Argentinian sovereignty ever been put to a vote?
”We’ve never had a referendum on the subject”
Of course, if you disagree with the elite like Mike S. it can get you fired like Emma Edwards or you may get death treats like James Peck.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/02/britain-argentina-spar-falklands.html
@49
Feb 18th, 2012 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Being interested in Sean Penn and caring what he thinks are not the same thing. Some women are interested in Tom Cruise, but few are interested in what he thinks.
I think the point was that no one, not even James 'Useful Idiot' Peck, has stood in a democratic local election offering up 'Joining with Argentina' in their manifesto. No need for a referendum on everything in a democracy.
Do you actually understand how a democracy works? You seem to have some ignorance on the matter.
21 Malvinero1 (#)
Feb 18th, 2012 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0uk poverty,and the stupid brits spend 300 milions for NOTHING!
More UK children in poverty .
Of course Argentina does not have a child poverty problem, they just sweep them off the streets and make them 'disappear' !!!
Marcos Alejandro
Feb 18th, 2012 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you like this actor, that much, and wish to dwell on him, why not vote for him to be your president, and dump the lady,
[][I’ve heard that the vast majority of Falklanders want to stay under British sovereignty. Has the issue of British vs. Argentinean sovereignty ever been put to a vote?
”We’ve never had a referendum on the subject
1, you don’t need a referendum as it does not belong to you,
But,
If a vote was put to the people, then you would have to include all the argentines, and the Falklanders, and the British,
And you would still lose the vote,
The fact is,, you cant flog a dead horse, and Argentina is that dead horse is she not,
Neigh neigh .
.
#50 Yoghurt “Do you actually understand how a democracy works?”
Feb 18th, 2012 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you vote for Your Queen or de facto Governor Haywood?
Of course not, you are a dairy product.
“Argentina is not a country you’d want to be associated with” says Mr. nobody.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who cares! It is not for you to decide.
@53 we don't vote for the Queen. It's called a Constitutional Democracy. A large number of the most stable and free societies in the world currently have them. Argentina isn't one of them.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And let's be fair, most people are republicans, but the plebs would clearly vote for Beckham, Blair or even someone very destructive like Kirchner, which would be a negative thing. So we're better off with the Queen for the minute, thanks very much.
“Did you vote for Your Queen or de facto Governor Haywood?”
Feb 18th, 2012 - 10:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Neither of them rule.
See the contradiction:
Feb 18th, 2012 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...“said MLA Summers adding that there is no way Argentina can convince the Islanders to accept sovereignty.”
If you clown think there is no way we can “convince” you then why insisting on talking about a tripartite table as if you had the same status of a country like Argentina or UK? For what?
This issue is between us and the circus owner. Clowns stay out!
We tried it friendly in 1970's and 1990's and was worthless.
You don't think, you just react to stimulus. That's the way you always liked to be treated. You were always slaves there. That's your culture!
P.S.: You don't restrict press there just because you are a 3000 squatters community with a quite intimidating fish-controlling-elite.
Pueblo chico, infierno grande.
Conkerer is, like some snake,full of venom,but a snake uses it's venom with a purpose.Unfortunately,conkerer the horse chestnut,wastes it on stupid words.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Monty69,you really must stop thinking that you islanders are special people.You are not.You are merely the same as anyone else but unfortunately the country that has the final say on matters,for you,are colonialist, who refuse to reform from a practise which they themselves condemned.In words more than in action.The remain colonialist and thereby are to be condemned and they use you as pawns.
@57 I love the way we rightfully refer to the Argentinian infestation as what legally it was, which was 'squatting' and because you have the originality of an old shoe you suddenly start referring to islanders as 'squatters'
Feb 18th, 2012 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's bipartite talks, and if you have a problem with that then you have to get the UN charter changed. Self-determination is paramount, and clearly stated. The purpose of the sections on the UN Charter relating to decolonisation clearly state non-self governing states should become self governing states. Hence sovereignty is a discussion between Argentina and the Islanders, the UK is only there for defence of the islands.
Have fun there in Argentina (Mar Mierda) with your swastikas.
I love the banding around of the word colonialist whilst Argentina tries and fails miserably to colonise the islands.
Feb 18th, 2012 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You bunch of lying, disingenuous hypocrites!
This issue is between us and the circus owner. Clowns stay out!
Feb 18th, 2012 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We tried it friendly in 1970's and 1990's and was worthless.
You tried it nasty in 82 and got your arse kicked :-)))))
This issue is between us and the circus owner. Clowns stay out!
Feb 18th, 2012 - 11:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We tried it friendly in 1970's and 1990's and was worthless.
You tried it nasty in 82 and got your arse kicked :-)))))
AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!
You too!And VERY BADLY,IMBECILE!
http://www.naval-history.net/F53opsweek11.htm
Yep a good old ass whooping
Feb 18th, 2012 - 11:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0FALKLANDS CONFLICT - The Surrender
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVHjKLIDAUY
54 JORGE1982
Feb 18th, 2012 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is for us to decide. The UK government asks us what we want, we tell them, and that's what happens.
As for 'we tried it friendly', what a disgraceful thing to say. You 'tried it friendly' and we didn't give you our country? Well what did you expect?
I have a question for you. If we had a referendum and voted to become part of Argentina, what would you think then? Would our views be worthless? Or do they only count for nothing because we don't agree with you?
Am I allowed to discuss one of the worst examples of piss poor naval strategy known to humanity when the Belgrano was pottering about waiting to join in a pincer movement and got sunk, turning the whole thing into into a farce?
Feb 19th, 2012 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 039 Xect: you made a very nice point. Thank you. You said that you had to negotiate with China because there was a treaty lease of 99 years. Two points: 1) the lease concerned part, not the whole of Hong Kong; and 2) more importantly, if you consider that the reason to negotiate the transfer was the treaty, you privilege sovereignty over self-determination. The principle of self-determination was not applicable to the population of Hong-Kong, simply because the territory was Chinese, if one follows you. You are entirely right!
Feb 19th, 2012 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0@66 Hong Kong was leased for 100 years from the Chinese government. HK island was basically the only part that wasn't included in the lease and had a previously resident indigenous community before the UK claimed sovereignty. It was previously under Chinese sovereignty. Splitting HK was not an option and it had a partially democratic government when we the lease expired and resorted back to Chinese rule. Keeping the island as a separate concern was not an viable option and it was deemed in the interests of the residents that it should be kept together as a Special Administrative Region in the same way as Macau.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 12:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't see how it's in any way similar to the Falklands as a British concern or protectorate, and turning it into a tiny protectorate wasn't in the interests of anyone.
Get back to polishing your SS regimental revolver.
@62 Malviner01, in what way did we get our asses kicked? As I recall, more than twice as many Argies were killed in the war as Brits, not to mention the fact that we actually won the war, booting you off then islands after just two months of conflict despite having to fight the conflict from 8000 miles away! You really are an idiot. Also, while we're here, wjhy don't I give you a short history lesson (seeing as you clearly need one). The supposed Argentine colony on the Falklands lasted for two months between december 1832 and january 1833. It was founded by a non-Argentine, Louis Vernet ( I think he was French but he might have ben Dutch), and while the population was predominately made up of people from the area which decades later would become Argentina, and it had a garrison consisting of people from that area, it cannot be considered a legitimate Argentine colony, on the grounds that it did not have the endorsement of the Buenos Aires government. It in fact was set up by Vernet with the permission of the British Government. The reason why he got endorsement from London instead of Argentina is that he knew that Britain had held sovereignty, which was never renounced, over the islands since first setting up a colony there in the 1700s, decades previously when Argentina was still nothing more than a Spanish colony. Having given permission for the settlement to be set up, Britain had every right to withdraw that permission, which ultimately it did. The Argentine settlers living there (the islands had no indiginous population) were not expelled - they were actually encouraged to stay. Some chose to return to whence they came but most remained. Their decendents make up part of the Falklands population and like the rest of the islanders,wish to remain British! End of Story. I hope all of you Argentine bloggers enjoyed today's lesson. Your homework will be to go home, think about what you have learnt and realise that Britain has every right to be in the Falklands.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mugs
Feb 19th, 2012 - 01:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/02/19/a-falklands-saturday/
@69 Has anyone found where we can actually buy those mugs? I think one would be awesome to drink tea out of whilst thinking about Argentina, or as it's called in my native English Mar Mierda.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 01:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Victory Bar, Stanley - but probably being brought from the UK ? Ask an Islander :-)
Feb 19th, 2012 - 03:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0One thing the UK government should be aware of is that we are living in a rapidly changing world. Britain is not the great power it once used to be. It risks the same humiliation that befell the Portuguese when they were kicked out of Goa in 1961 by the Indian government.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 04:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0They had a 900 or more year old treaty of friendship with Britain. What did Britain do to help its ally? Nothing!
The UK government also could not wait to get rid of its Rhodesian problem and handed the country over to Mugabe, gave him a knighthood and stood by when 20000 Matabele were murdered by his North Korean trained brigade. So much for UK/British hypocrisy!
Whenever there are economic problems in Argentina it is convenient to beat the Falklands/Malvinas drum. Galtieri did it in 1982 and now President Cristina Kirchner is doing it.
I believe that Argentina has a legitimate claim to the Falklands - after all they expelled the settlers from the Malvinas in 1833. This is well documented.
There is also the well known anachronistic Monroe Doctrine (1823) which states that America is for the Americans. This was used by the USA at the end of their Civil War in 1865 to warn Napoleon III to get out of Mexico. It would appear that this is no longer valid
@ 72
Feb 19th, 2012 - 04:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you are a genuine Aussie (which I doubt as I have lived there and mix with real Aussies ) you ought to be ashamed of yourself for swallowing the Argie propaganda.
If you want some of the real story read post number 68.
@72: Ozgood
Feb 19th, 2012 - 04:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0“It risks the same humiliation that befell the Portuguese when they were kicked out of Goa in 1961 by the Indian government.”
So, who exactly is going to kick the UK out of the Falkland Islands?
“They had a 900 or more year old treaty of friendship with Britain. What did Britain do to help its ally? Nothing!”
Britiain had already given the rest if India its independence in 1947. Why on Earth should they have helped Portugal to hold on to the rest of it?
“The UK government also could not wait to get rid of its Rhodesian problem and handed the country over to Mugabe, gave him a knighthood and stood by when 20000 Matabele were murdered by his North Korean trained brigade. So much for UK/British hypocrisy!”
So, you're damned if you hold on to your colonies and damned if you don't!
“I believe that Argentina has a legitimate claim to the Falklands - after all they expelled the settlers from the Malvinas in 1833. This is well documented.”
Actually, it's even better documented that they weren't expelled. The miltary were asked to leave (and typically did so without a fight) and a few people left voluntarily. It sounds like it was a pretty dire place at the time, so some were bound to want to leave when given the opportunity.
The Malvinas Islands belong to Argentina and it will be so for ever. All the world know that the Malvinas Islands have been stolen by UK using its military force, and this country uses this force to maintain this usurpation. In addition, you need to know that Argentina is a country who has the third biggest economy of Latin America after Brasil and Mexico. Therefore it is a big country in the Latin America region, It is a country which has a huge potenciality and it is important (for all the world) to maintain a good association with this country. In addition it is a country who has an economy growing up very fast in opposite of other countries of Europe for example UK.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 04:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mike Summers, I heard this a few days ago in British radio, enjoy:
Feb 19th, 2012 - 06:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Nations have the right of self determination, the 3000 people on the Falkland islands are not a nation! They insist they are part of the British nation and the British nation has the right of self determination..IN BRITAIN!” Yep
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRgRh6qjSs8
The self determination is one of the lot of brtish lies. Everybody knows that self-determination doesn´t apply in the Malvinas issue. In 1984, the General Assembly adopted Resolution 39/6, in which he recalled the previous on the Malvinas issue and noted ”with concern that despite the time elapsed since the adoption of resolution 2065 (XX), prolonged controversy that still has not been resolved”. In 1985, through Resolution 40/21, the Assembly again urged the parties to solve the dispute through negotiations pending, rejecting the two proposed amendments by the United Kingdom sought to introduce in the preamble and the operative part of the principle of self-determination, as inapplicable to the Malvinas question was thus ratified. This Resolution was adopted by a large majority of 107 votes in favor, 41 abstentions and only 4 countries against, with Britain among the latter. In the years after the Assembly adopted resolutions similar: 41/40 in 1986, 42/19 in 1987 and 43/25 in 1988. Thereafter, the Special Committee on decolonization, with the subsequent approval of the General Assembly has adopted annually to present the resolutions on the Question of the Malvinas Islands, which reiterates the call to the parties to resume negotiations in order to find a peaceful solution to the sovereignty dispute. However uk doesn´t want to hear and this country doesn´t want to negotiate because it knows that doesn´t have any valid argument to steal the Islands. Uk only has the power of military force to impose its invalid arguments and to steal territories and resources of other countries.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 06:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0“”“it’s a country that’s not very well governed. Corruption is rife. Press freedom is restricted. It's not a country you’d want to be associated with”””.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Falklands has one newspaper that is funded from government
there is one radio station that is funded by government
2 police chiefs have been caught up in corruption scandals since 1982 - one forced to retire the other arrested and held under house arrest.
One Attorney general fired and forced to leave the Islands since 1982
The Islands department of conservation taken over by non elected officials the leader of which was actually a director of an oil company.
The falkland Islands development corporation has been caught up in numerous scandals from which two directors were effectively forced to 'retire' and subsequently 'encouraged' to leave the Islands.
Mike Summers was director of the Falkands Dvelopment Corporation at a time when it was constantly at the centre of allegations of abuse of public funds and management incompetency.
MIke Summers now runs a fishing company which was also caught up in a legal tangle through violations of fishing regulations.
Four criminal and civil cases have been brought before the court in Port Stanley and have later been contested via judicial revue in Britain from which the falklands governement lost their cases and the government itself has been condemned for violations of human rights three times since 1982 and forced to make ex-gratia payments and compensation.
The legal system in the falklands is run via a network of closely associated people and can be described as 'fragile' where justice is never a guaranteed outcome but rather depends upon one's connections within the islands and there is a clear prejudice between those who are considered to be 'real' Islanders and those who are not.
living in the Falklands is very simple: you keep your mouth shut or your out.
So which country is Mr Summers talking about?
The Falklands has one newspaper that is funded from government
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina takes control of newsprint supplies
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-16311344
there is one radio station that is funded by government
Argentina: political radio show cancelled
03 Feb 2009
Radio show Puntos de Vista (‘Points of View’), presented by renowned journalist Nelson Castro, was controversially cancelled on 30 Jan after 16 years on air.
The announcement was made by Electroingeniería, the company that owns the Buenos Aires radio station Radio del Plata, which hosts the show. Castro, who is very critical of President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner’s administration, believes that the decision is an attempt ‘to suppress critical voices in an electoral year’. Local press have claimed that Electroingeniería has close ties with several important administration officials.
police chiefs have been caught up in corruption scandals since 1982 - one forced to retire the other arrested and held under house arrest.
Police Corruption Plagues Argentines and President
He was a 23-year-old engineering student from a middle-class family, kidnapped one night early this year on his way to see his fiancée. Days later, while held for ransom, he managed to escape, but when neighbors alerted the police to a man running down the street calling for help, they say they were ordered back into their houses and told to mind their own business.
Only later, after the student, Axel Blumberg, was fatally shot in March, did an explanation for that seemingly strange police behavior emerge. Two senior members of the Buenos Aires provincial police were charged with complicity in the case, and an investigating magistrate says others in the local precinct have also been implicated in the act, which is believed to have been
One Attorney general fired and forced to leave the Islands since 1982
An official of the Upper Chamber confessed he distributed US$ 5 million among senators in 2000 to pass a crucial
A Grroup of Rrrocks in the South Atlantic…
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0George Galloway…
17/02/2012…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRgRh6qjSs8
@80 Squatter Think,
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0George Galloway is as silly as you are.
Neither of you know what you are talking about.
@72 Ozgood,
post # 74 answered all your demented drivel.
You're an idiot, boy. Have you read post #68?
Drongo!
Think - your hero George Galloway
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1NIuCt72bU&nomobile=1
and you wish to promote this imbecile as one of your supporters?
george galloway being a cat
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-D5XoNWFSQ
@Isolde
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0According to post 68 the Argentinians were mauled. Now what I have to say is that the Argentine military sent ill-trained and ill-equipped conscripts to the islands. They had to deal with well trained and equipped professional soldiers.
The junta sent boys to fight men. Of course twice as many Argentines were killed. More than three hundred drowned when the Belgrano was sunk. Excluding these makes the score more or less even. The Argentinian airforce mauled the British navy
@84Ozgood,
Feb 19th, 2012 - 09:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0So whose fault was it that the Argentines were conscripts? Ours? Get real. lf you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
The Argentine airforce was driven from the skies by SUBSONIC aircraft.
The RN learned some very valuable lessons from the conflict.
No aluminium superstructures, thats for sure.
At the end of the day, we won & thats all that matters.
Also, if you believe that the Argentines have a legitimate claim, then you need to do more research, mate.
And lets leave Rhodesia out of this. Thats not relevent to our present situation and is a lot more complicated than what you have described.
Oz - I think you will find it was exorcet that sank the ships. These were aceptable losses in the context of the overall objective. i didn't know wars were scored?
Feb 19th, 2012 - 09:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0(72) Ozgood
Feb 19th, 2012 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good, realistic comment …… We don’t get so many of those here.
Rhodesia was indeed a Great British “Schweinerei”.
You left out a couple of “Minor Cases” though.... f. ex. the Diego Garcia and the Hong Kong issues…
So much for UK/British hypocrisy!
Regards
El Think, Chubut, Argentina
PS:….Never mind Isolde's insults.
Before Malvinas, she used to be the young memsahib on a coffee plantation in a forgotten valley of PNG. Isolation has hampered her social skills :-)
(78)Dreyfoss
Good summary of the corruption that is customary in Malvinas.
You left out a couple of issues though..... f. ex. the Bingham /Addis cases.
But their streets are clean!
TWIMC
About Galloway and the Malvinas Islands….
A recent pool in Argentina has shown that 80% of us think that our government is applying the right policies on the”Malvinas Issue”.
14% are not sure….
6% are opposed….
When is Britain going to make a similar pool?
@84 Ozgood. The argentine airforce and the naval air arm did our RN a lot of damage. But they called San Carlos “death valley” due to loss rate they suffered doing it. We decimated the Argentine Air force (shootiung down 50 combat aircraft). The score board is nowehere near even - we punched much harder than they did.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 09:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0The only reason that we did'nt inflict heavy losses on the Armada Argentina was because it effectively withdrew it's surface combatants after the sinking of the Belgrano. The only sub they had at sea suffered (after the capture of the from defective fire control.
If you want to keep score about loss rates - you have to take into account the 11000 prisoners taken in the course of the campaign. You also have to look at the fact the the Argentinians were defending dug in positions on hills, supported by heavy artillery and other support weapons, surrounded by unmarked mine fields.
Looking at pure land battle figures 148 army and Royal Marines against 194 Argentine army - the kill to loss ratio is 1.3 to 1 in our favour. Against a fortified enemy this is a cerditable and shows the professionalism of the British Army in a positive light.
Anyway - going on about losses is irrelevant to the justice of the the British cause, we were defending British people in British territory. If we had suffered heavier casualties, would that have made you happier? Saying yes would make as much sense as me stating that I wish the diggers at Tobruk at taken heavuer losses fighting the Germans and Italians because they were such good opponents.
Do your research first, before making sweeping statements.
Has that set you straight?
According to post 68 the Argentinians were mauled. Now what I have to say is that the Argentine military sent ill-trained and ill-equipped conscripts to the islands. They had to deal with well trained and equipped professional soldiers
Feb 19th, 2012 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0That may be due to them having a land dispute with Chile,and having to keep their best troops on the borders, if you havent fought a war in hundreds of years dont start with 2 fronts,the vast majority of the allied troops fighting in the second world war were conscripts and if the argie's were fighting for their “own land” why didnt they put up a better show
More than three hundred drowned when the Belgrano was sunk. Excluding these makes the score more or less even
only because the argie navy wouldnt come out to play after it was sunk,they spent the rest of the war in port
The Argentinian airforce mauled the British navy
most of their bombs didnt go off because they flew too low avoiding being shot down
@87 We need a poll? Oh yes, we should poll the Falklanders to see if they think the Argentinian government is applying the right policies on the “Malvinas Issue”. Good idea. Let's watch as it predictably gets Yes - 1% No - 99%. Those Islanders especially love the neo-peron irredentist policies.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0You folks are chemically-induced imbeciles.
Think - there is no point in running a poll in the UK. The average Brit (who even knows where the islands are) won't really have an opinion. It dosent concern their individual priorities. Also we don't feel the need to raise the FI as an issue or feel the need to teach compulsory classes about the FI to our school children. We do not have to convince ourselves of British soverignty. For some reason your country feels the need to raise it as often as it can. Who are you trying to convince? Yourselves?
Feb 19th, 2012 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for an Argie poll, a majority may agree with the approach taken but that dosent mean it is the correct one or the one that is going to achieve your overall aims.
Rhodesia was originally a British colony. Although decolonisation in Africa had commenced after World War II, it began accelerating in the early 1960s, causing Britain to negotiate independence rapidly with several of its colonies. During this period, it adopted a foreign policy called NIBMAR, or No Independence Before Majority African Rule, mandating democratic reforms that placed governance in the hands of the majority black Africans. The governing white minority of Rhodesia, led by Ian Smith, opposed the policy and its implications. On 11 November 1965, Rhodesia's minority white government made a unilateral declaration of independence (commonly referred to as “UDI”) from the United Kingdom, as it became apparent that negotiations would not lead to independence under the white regime.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0My Ingrish nooo goood….
Feb 19th, 2012 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please disregard my terrible mistake at (87)
I meant: “Poll” not “Pool”
When is Britain going to make a similar poll?
When is the United Kingdom going to make a similar poll?
When is the United Kingdom of Great Britain going to ask its 60 million inhabitants on a similar poll?
@93 We're not going to make a similar poll. The UK has no fascination with the rantings of the child-men in some backward gargle-juice of the Spanish empire. We prefer to read about real news.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0That being said, if you mess with our protectorates, we'll teach you a lesson in pain.
Understood? (I doubt it, you silly people don't do understanding)
(91) Beef
Feb 19th, 2012 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0If all goes to plan, the UK will soon begin making those polls........
And they will open some eyes………
@95 the best you're going to get is a phone poll in the uber-plebby Sun newspaper on some £1 a vote premium rate number, typically aimed at making Rupert Murdoch money out of trolled proles who got really upset about the issue du jour in those joyous red tops.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 10:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0British people don't care about Argentinian irredentism, until it's lesson o'clock. DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?
I notice that there is very little news about the FI now and the RG's appear to have admitted defeat and gone home sulking. I wonder if the US etc. has had a word with them and told them to keep quiet.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Also I note that its the Islanders now who are taking up the rhetoric with the RG's which is a good ploy as it makes it now look like 40m v 3k - an unfair fight - and almost bound to get the sympathy of the rest of the world.
Ah well - Islanders lots v RG's none.
As for some sort of vote...ha, ha, ha, ha.....no one cares less man other than you RG's.
@58 Still can't spell, eh, brain-dead? Do you think this somehow makes your drivel more noteworthy? Now let's take that name “Yuleno”. Does it mean anything? Conqueror does. Amongst other things it means a historic British submarine that sank an argie cruiser and sent the rest of the argie “fleet” scuttling for home with its tail between its legs. A cruiser, by the way, about which argies have LIED for 30 years. “It was outside the exclusion zone” they said, “ and headed for Argentina.” Except that it wasn't. It was INSIDE the exclusion zone and headed for an RV also within the exclusion zone. Not that it made any difference, as the British government had already informed the junta, via the Swiss Embassy in Buenos Aires, that there were no limits to where British forces would act against argie approaches. But back to your name. In Britain we have a thing called a Yule log. A “log” is also a discrete way of referring to stuff that one flushes down a W.C. after being excreted from a body. You may have difficulty with this concept. Certainly, the argie girlies you sent to the Falkland Islands in 1982 did!
Feb 19th, 2012 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0@75 Garbage and more garbage.
@77 Why is it that you never answer questions put to you? Are they too difficult? Are they not in your script?
Let's try an easy one. You say “Everybody knows that self-determination doesn´t apply in the Malvinas issue.” Is that right? I'm sure that you know that all UN resolutions are a matter of public record. So can you post a link to the UN resolution that says that the people of the Falkland Islands are not entitled to self-determination? Please?
78 dreyfoss
Feb 19th, 2012 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well who else is going to fund the radio station? Government involvement is arm's length because both it and the paper are overseen by the independent Media Trust.
What century are you living in anyway? We also have the internet. I always make a point of reading Clarin and La Nacion, just so I can be quite sure we wouldn't be better off as Argentines.
We also use facebook for news and discussion- everything has thoroughly done the rounds well before it ever gets in the paper just as anywhere else. I watched Gavin Short get a grilling on FB over the jumped fishermen as it happened. You just need to get a few more Falkland Islands 'friends'.
''The legal system in the falklands is run via a network of closely associated people''
What do you mean by that? Everyone here is closely connected. The chief magistrate is always appointed from overseas for a short term specifically because of that. Judges for big cases are always brought in from overseas just because of that.
And what about those cases? First you say the place is corrupt and everyone can get away with anything, then you talk about cases where people clearly have not got away with anything, including FIG. Who I might add are generally being brought to book for high- handed lapses in judgement over issues of employment and contracts rather than corruption.
One thing I am sure of- the kind of cases that you all like to wet your pants over in the Falkland Islands wouldn't even make it to court in Argentina, and certainly wouldn't be newsworthy if they did.
Falklands Conservation is not the 'government conservation department'. All its officials are non- elected because it is an NGO- it employs people and has trustees.
I still don't understand what this has to do with you. This is our country and we are constantly trying to make it better. We don't need advice from you.
Oh, that's what Mike Summers sai, isn't it?
@98,99 From where I'm stood the inane rantings of the Argies are something we've all seen before.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 12:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Neo-peronism or Kerchnerism has a youth movement which teaches their alternative version of history and ensures that people understand the disbenefits of not keeping to the party line (http://teachingpoint.com/WebText/Images/Hitler%20Youth%20poster.jpg). They had the same reverence for their leadership and used sloganism to keep people in check (http://teachingpoint.com/WebText/Images/Hitler%20Youth%20poster.jpg). and the same unwithering support of revanchist policies (http://teachingpoint.com/WebText/Images/Hitler%20Youth%20poster.jpg).
It's hilarious to watch.
A clarification to my earlier post 88, I got distracted and hit “submit comment” before completing the statement about the Argentine submarine force: we captured the ARA Santa Fe at South Georgia, the ARA San Luis suffered fire control problems.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0By the way, despite my regarding the Argentine cause as an unjust one (both then and now), it is worth recognising that the FAA and Naval Aviation fought with skill and determination.
The Argentine army suffered from poor leadership, training (many were very freshly conscripted) and hence morale. Choosing forces equipped and trained to operate in the warmer parts of Argentina did'nt help either. Despite this, many Argentine soldiers put up stiff resistance, aided by some very good infantry and support weapons.
To all my fellow Brits I would urge us not to underestimate our foes - we did this to the Japanese in 1941 and it cost us Malaya and Singapore, our worst defeat in ww2. The Argentine armed forces are now a professional organistion and can be expected to perfrorm better than 1982.
Thats why I support think personally that deploying an SSN to the Falklands should be a standing RN commitment, and that we should deploy either a second flight of Typhoons fully wired for ground attack or a flight of GR4 Tornados. If we backed this up with a second infantry company (or even a full battlegroup) we would make the Falklands a very much tougher proposition for invasion. Domination of the sea and air routes to the islands is key to detering future Argentine aggression.
@101 Although professional forces fair better than conscripts, you underestimate the Islanders desires to remain free of subjugation to an alien power. The islanders know their land like an old favorite shoe, as the Vietnamese and Afghani forces have shown in different circumstances.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They'd be taking on both a well armed conventional force and a well trained non-conventional force at the same time. History shows this never ends well for the invading power. I doubt even Russia would be wanting another Afghanistan after how badly they were beaten.
ozgood great comment
Feb 19th, 2012 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@103 pcooper41,
Feb 19th, 2012 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a ridiculous comment you made.
Ah mein Think,
poll,pool,schmool.
No Negotiations on Sovereignty, Herr Think.
PS.
l've never been to these malvinas, where are they?
& what are they?
Maybe somewhere near you up in the Andes, where you are presently squatting?
Don't you ever get a twinge of guilt that you're living on murdered people's land?
No l guess not.
concerning this report I feel the same way about british illegal aliens in Islas Malvinas Argentina, that is that, it is what it is. I am glad we can get that out of the way.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.livetradingnews.com/telecom-argentina-s-a-adr-nyseteo-posts-strong-earnings-63257.htm#.
If British people want to be respected I suggest them to post their letters in correct terms. British people are historically very proud of their education, but they are performing quite badly lately.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think it must be very hard for the British to assume that despite of being a remarkable power in the 19th century, this is over and you don’t seem to be on top in the near future (at least for while). Things are changing fast and there is no space for such things as 19th century’s British arrogance. You have a very nice lesson to learn about this for instance with China.
Personally as an Argentinean I am, I don’t like CFK, nor I like their party, nor I like their politics, buy I’m pretty respectful of the elected govern since I believe in Democracy. I am aware that in UK there is a belief on different kinds (should I say classes?) of democracies and British are not prone to respect any other ones since in you imaginary yours is a very prestigious one.
Whilst this last fact could probably be true, not just imaginary, it does not give you the right to behave arrogantly with other countries. This does have to do with education. (You learn it at home within your family)
As you may already know, Argentina was a Spanish colony. It is not a colony anymore if you are not well informed. It has been independent from Spain since 1816, the same as, for instance, the US has been independent from you since 1776.
I was born in the Patagonia Argentina, and I grew up in contact with people from very different ethnical/national origins. I am a Spanish and Italian descendent and my wife is also an Italian descendent. My city has been populated by Autochthon people, Spanish, Italian, English, German, Chilean, Yugoslav, Polish, etc. people, just to mention the main streams, so I’m quite open minded in spite of what you UK and/or Kelper people can think about what an “argie” is.
Please don’t tell us we are old fashioned, and ignorant if you don’t really know our culture (“let’s watch
What a ridiculous post 106, its quite simple that your hatred of the British is severely clouding your perspective and its also clear this isn't based on any facts but the pure bile you are posting from your head.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So tell me genius how is the British education system suffering? As far as I can tell they still lead the way on a number of subjects and their universities are still the most highly recommended alongside of their US counterparts.
Like it or not trying to state Britain isn't still a world power simply makes you look plain silly. Britain still occupies all of the most powerful positions in the world, its economy is still in the top 5 and it is the 3rd largest defense spender in the world but in your little mind its somehow all over, yet the facts very clearly state otherwise.
Now lets compare Argentina shall we, they aren't a world power, have never been a world power and on all fronts are a complete shambles. Their economy is in a truly disastrous state (25%+ inflation means you're economy is already over!), have no military to speak of and are backed by some of the most murderous and amoral people of the world and yet you dare to try to lecture the UK on these matters you bunch of hypocrites.
As for arrogance Argentina has been displaying it in bags lately with its childish name calling and bullying of the 3,000 Falkland inhabitants. That is the definition of arrogance.
Your views are old fashioned and ignorant as you are simply repeating the same lies that have been said by your own government for over 30 years, that's not progress, that makes you a joke plain and simple.
Until you can remove your thinly veiled insults and disrespectful behavior towards the British don't expect anyone to listen to the words you speak.
99# Dear monty.99 was such a good post I must congratulate you.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Glad you use Facebook and Internet facilities and that you support state control of the media and communication.At least you are not directly affected by Murdoch's interference in democratic process.
However you sit very contentedly with a reliance on foreign intervention in the role and practise of the law.No doubt you trust foreign intervention in SA,and understand why SA supports Argentina in it course of action to rid the continent of external intervention.
Every country has criminals and corruption so the fact the islands conform to this generalisation is understandable,but to not be concerned at what democratic rights you have is very revealing
Come way may!Que sera
@104 lsolde
Feb 19th, 2012 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Don't you ever get a twinge of guilt that you're living on murdered people's land?”
Britain also has much to be ashamed of in its colonial past - the aboriginal people of Australia were hunted down, the savage punishment meted out to rebels in the Indian mutiny by the British in 1857 (strapping people onto the barrels of cannon), the slave trade,
the flirtation of the Duke of Windsor with Hitler, the pro Nazi preferences of some members of the British aristocracy
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone - I am not religious but your comment warrants this quotation
I know that Roca hunted down the aboriginal people in patagonia in the mid 1800s.
To the upset genious (Xect):Please don’t tell us we are old fashioned, and ignorant if you don’t really know our culture (“let’s watch the mirror” as we say in Argentina). I suggest you to visit us, and take your own conclusions. In my opinion UK is the actual old fashioned country (not to mention Kelpers) since UK keeps on having colony issues well inside 21th century. Do you know the percentage of colonial issues UK has in relation to the whole world? (70%?)
Feb 19th, 2012 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please don’t talk about Latin culture without respect. We, Latin people, had also our own centuries of glory, maybe a thousand years, and European culture owes almost everything to Greek and Latin people. Meanwhile, Germanic tribes lived in the forest. So give up with this old fashioned xenophobia, please. It does not have room anymore.
There are some other things you may be aware of. You refer at our President as a “bitch”. Independently of what you think about her, you should be respectful of her, since she is the President of our Country. Otherwise, would you like us (like the rest of the world) to refer to UK as “the bitch of US”. It doesn’t sound good, does it? Well, I’m not trying to insult British people, this is not my style, but please be aware this is the most common idea people has about UK.
Then, why when talking about piracy, british people suddenly change the focus of discussion. I personally think this is because historically UK has been a nation that took advantage of Piracy. Maybe it has to do with the legacy of Vikings to the formation of you country. Nothing to say about that, but please take into account we don’t live in the 900’s. A country which steals is a country that is called THIEF. No matter their own self image. No matter if the other country is accused of corruption, that’s not the point. This absolutely does not have to do with prestige, is just shame to UK!
When you talk about bullying, please be aware that this notion is associated to coerce by showing force. Argentina is not bu
(104) Isolde
Feb 19th, 2012 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your infatuation with “ Mr. Think” is reaching hazardous levels……..
I told you before; you are too young and too transparent for me…
Therefore there can be no meeting between us in any middle ground……
Please do not address any of your future posts to “Think”, oh most sisterly one.
Respect is given when it is received.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you show no respect of the British do not expect any respect in return from the western world.
Lets get real and not live in the past otherwise I can bring up the fact Argentina for instance tried to remove all of the native peoples of the country we now call Argentina.
You have gone on the charge again with the insults and childish behavior and you wonder why the western world doesn't trust Argentina?
The problem you have is your country is causing all the rhetoric and your government has been incredibly disrespectful at every level which the UK government never does. You don't catch the British PM being rude and nasty to the Argentine government do you?
You go on to say stop the xenophobia and then proceed to spend the rest of the post insulting the UK, do you realise what a incredible hypocrite that makes you? Especially the very old fashioned and typical approach of Argentina using the phrases of pirate and thief, so tell me how exactly you are not old fashioned?
As for stealing a country quite clearly the UK didn't steal anything, the Falklands existed before ARGENTINA was even a country!!!!!!!!!!!
If you really wanted to gain the Falklands you would become friendly with them and show them how Argentina could improve their way of life and doing so would change the opinion they have of Argentina and eventually and just maybe they could choose Argentina but with the bullying, nasty behavior and disgraceful tactics you somehow think you will get the islands, you are quite clearly deluded with this behavior and it is this very same old fashioned behavior that means you've got no chance of ever getting the islands.
I means its not like Argentina can overcome the economic, political and military might of the UK is it?
And Monty...your prince is about 30 years old and still practicing???? ....didnt learn the risky job he choosed yet????what a pity
Feb 19th, 2012 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Xect: I don't insult anybody, as I told you I don't do this by principle. But I hate British people giving lessons of education, and behaving like hypocrits, as it the ROW where full of infants.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When you talk about bullying, please be aware that this notion is associated to coerce by showing force. Argentina is not bullying the islanders: UK is bullying Argentina when it does not accept any way of negotiation (this is: refusing DIPLOMACY) and sends war ships (this is: showing FORCE).
If the islanders don’t want to have anything to do with the rest of the continent since they are self sufficient and culturally superior, they are free to ask UK for all they need! If Cameron or UK thinks it worth maintaining this colony so many thousand miles away, it should have studied the associated costs, it must have a good reason for it! Don’t say Argentina is bullying the islanders when it applies the non-belligerent tools at hand given that UK refuses to discuss!
Come on, go to the point: this does nothing to do with self-determination (which of course can’t be applied in this case). The real fact is that this has to do with natural resources. If we do not talk clear about this issue we will never agree. Please don’t tell me that we have to agree about anything.
The islanders could be whatever they want to be, old fashioned Anglican Puritans, Jews, Muslims, whatever, even (“diabolic”) Roman Catholics! if they wish to; this never has been a problem in my country: have you ever been to Trelew, Rawson or Gaiman?. But this is clear: they don’t have the right to freely exploit our natural resources.
If you British people continue on your position (“what would you do?”, “kick arses”, and all the panoply of non well educated reasons), you are just negating the problem and delaying its solution.
In summary, UK people, you cannot be arrogant anymore. Please be polite and don’t you show so much ignorance please, for the greatness of your British Nation.
@arg
Feb 19th, 2012 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem is we know enough about your culture and your delusions of grandeur, importance, exeptionalism, and especially your delusion of victimhood, as demonstrated by your actions over the past 200 years, to treat any of you with respect when you pretend to have any moral authority.
The UK is (on average) over a dozen places above argentina in corruption ratings, human rights, and human development, and unlike argentina does not posture as some self pitying “victim of colonialism” in order to gain international support for an especially delusional and hypocritical attempt to subjugate a peaceful island community for the sake of national ego.
the UK also does not celebrate genocides like the “conquest of the desert” on it's money. therefore, you whining that the UK is “old fashioned” will be treated with the same contempt that is given to the rest of your pathetic countrymen's whining.
and as for the “glory of latin peoples”, stop clinging to the achievements of others. we will respect argentina for what argentines accomplish, and so far there has been precisely nothing to respect.
and while you may live in fear of that bloated old hag who grows closer to a dictator (control of media and judiciary, getting an constitution amendment to allow an extra term) we do not, and we will afford her the same respect we afford those like the late Kim Jong Il
and seeing how you whine that the UK “stole” the falklands, may i ask you what moral right you had to commit mass land thefts against your neighbors, and especially the native tribes who you then committed mass genocide against before settling the land with white immigrants? your entire nation is built on stolen land, and your whining about our fully legal preventing you doing the same with the falklands is indicative of your hypocrisy and lack of national intelligence.
now you and the other 99% of argentines from europe can vacate argentina and go back to europe if you feel so threatened by the islanders
I seriously think you are confused about the word bullying. Bullying can take any form whereby a stronger nation does something to make the lives difficult of a smaller nation (i.e. Argentina vs Falklands).
Feb 19th, 2012 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK refusing to negotiate can be in no way called bullying, it is simply refusing to co-operate which isn't bullying. Neither can the warship be called bullying, its the same patrol the UK has carried out since Argentina illegally invaded the Falkland islands so essentially nothing has changed.
Again you called the British 'tools' which is yet another insulting and nasty thing to add to your collection of insults which over the last 3 posts have been to called the UK thief's, pirates, bitches and so the list goes on.
The UK has maintained those islands for now 180 years so stating they are only supporting the islands because of natural resources is clearly incorrect as its only been over the past 30 years its become clear their could be oil there and only over the last few years has proven that theory.
The British are free to hold their position they have not breached any law or done anything that would put them in bad standing with the world community.
In summary, the UK people can be as arrogant as they please (although they are not) and Argentina needs to stop with the childish name calling, aggression and bullying and then and only then may it have a chance at entering any type of diplomacy.
Argentina needs to drop the anger, aggression and nastiness to make any form of progress. It should be clear to Argentina and its people the British will not tolerate aggression and name calling and doing so will only enrage the British people who are far more powerful and always very willing to act against this behavior.
It's a shame the Argentinean government is causing all of these problems for the islanders and wasting the UN's time when they could actually try to resolve the issue with peace, dignity and respect.
John Knott, the British Defence Secretary during the Falklands War , was asked how he thought the future war would progress and he looked at it from a different angle.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0His view was that Argentina was predominantly populated by Italians and their descendents and Spaniards and their descendents. How the Argentine forces performed in battle would depend on which national stereotype predominated. If it was Italian; Britain did not have a problem as the last time Italians were good soldiers was during the Roman Empire and in the second World War British armies had routinely defeated Italian armies 5 to 10 times bigger than themselves.
If the Spanish stereotype predominated then Britain had a slightly bigger problem in that Spaniards were brave fighters but not very logical and too 'hot headed' to perform very well in a modern war.
Either way the Argentines would be no match for the British and so it proved.
Depending on where you get the figures from it looked like 6,000
to 7,000 British ground forces ,attacking well prepared Argentine positions defended by 11,000 to 13,000 Argentine troops won a relatively easy victory.
This 'close run thing' nonsense and praising Argentine pilots is the British leadership being magnanimous in victory as they always are. The ordinary squaddies thought the actual fighting was not a walkover but not too hard compared to some other conflicts.
If Argentina wanted to be any good at real wars it should have encouraged more German immigration .If it ever comes to a real war beteween Argentina and Chile I would put my money on Chile.
I just read the Sunday Times Business Section and with just the Rockhopper oil find each Falklander will be worth $3.2 million even before the big fields come on stream. The Alan Walters/Carlos Menem plan was to pay each Falklander $1 million which was turned down. Potential per person is $60 million.
Britain is less likely to encourage any talks now; no matter how much shouting & screaming there is
@114 arg
Feb 19th, 2012 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Given the amount of delusional and self pitying whining that emanates from argentines on this site (including You) we often have to give basic education with regards to history, international law, and recognising basic hypocricy
For example, your whining about the UK refusing to bow down to argentina’s impotent attempts to bully the islanders, and maintaining the defence of the islands necessitated by argentina’s recent invasion and it’s 50 years of economic harassment and blockading, as well as argentina’s continued treatment of the islanders as subhuman which shows it will have no problem attacking them again if given the chance
The islanders already have links with Chile and Uruguay, and were argentina not acting like a self pitying, self important bully, it would have links with argentina. However, given your national delusion that you have the same “divine right” to conquer the islands and subjugate the islanders that you had to commit genocide and land theft against the natives, and the past 30 years of intimidation, invasion, insults and harassment, the islanders have no reason to want anything to do with you.
The fact you feel so offended by the islanders using their own resources also shows how little your country has changed since the days you were butchering natives and stealing their land and resources. You still think you have the right to take what you want from your neighbours, and they have no right to fight back, and when they do you scream like a bitch and cry that you are “victims of colonialism”.
It is about time argentina grew a spine
72 Ozgood
Feb 19th, 2012 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You said Britain faces the same kind of humiliation that befell Portugal in Goa in 1961 and then (amazingly) said “They had a 900 or more year old treaty of friendship with Britain. What did Britain do to help its ally?”
Exactly what has Portugal done for Britain or any member of the British Commonwealth during the course of what you call a 900 year old treaty? What did Portugal do for the allies in WW2? Oh it was governed by fascists!! It did NOTHING!!
The same fascists were running the country in 1961. The Portuguese Army was incompetent and had no ability to defend Goa against the country of 800 million Indians it was surrounded by.
You expected Britain to do something to help them? What exactly? Britain (Australia, New Zealand and Rhodesian forces) were involved in a war with Indonesia at that point in time and still dealing with a communist insurgency in Malaya. There was the Cold War raging around the world and you expected Britain to push India into the arms of the Soviet's by staging an intervention in India - of all places - in support of an extremely unpopular and repressive fascist Portuguese dictator - of all people! What planet are you on?
I'm not sure which part of Australia you're from mate, but it certainly isn't the part on planet Earth. It sounds like the kind of logic a nationalist Argentine would apply.
The 900 year old treaty you mention is not a formal treaty or defence pack. It was an informal treaty of friendship based on the fact that at the time both Portugal and England shared a common enemy Spain. I think you will find time has moved on.
You then go on to mention Rhodesia.Rhodesia you may recall declared unilateral independence from Britain in 1965. This put the UK in a very difficult position.It had to keep a growingly hostile Africa on side, while at the same time not putting 300,000 Europeans (mostly of British stock) at risk. It was called real politik.
113 malen
Feb 19th, 2012 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm a lot older than that and I haven't stopped learning new things to do my job properly. It all depends what job you do. I can only assume you are a shelf stacker in a supermarket or something equally demanding.
108 Yuleno
You clearly haven't got the first idea of what it takes to run an island community. Luckily we do.
How about you concentrate on ridding South America of foreign influence and we'll carry on running our country the way we see fit (whilst watching your economy go down the toilet, as it surely will).
@Bradeon: Please let me tell you that UK don't have a real authority more than being in the winning side of WWII. Don't talk about moral, UK in not well known in the world as a justice paladine. Please don't use this argument, may be is what you learn at school, but maybe this is true inside your country. Also: Nobody, not even a paladine of Justice has the right of not complying UN resolutions, just for being the Champion of Justice. You can't deny this right to Argentina just because you “know enough”. You know enough about nothing. If you live in UK, then you don't live in Argentina. So, please be prudent. I'm no so arrogant to say what I don't know. And of course, can be UK victim of colonialism when it has been colonizing the world for centurys (please tell me, do you train to give me so “unusual” argument?). How can you dare speak about of genocide??? Do you tell your “son” US anything about what english culture did in North America? We have mestizos, we have crossed, what have you done? You just killed indians in America, are you kidding me? Let me tell you, I don't want to keep on discussing such basic things, if this is the perspective you have of Latin America, you should go there for a while. Let me be absoultely frank about this: I don't like my govern, I don like CFK, I have enough “self-critics”, but I can't stand hypocrisy and sorry for what I'm going to tell you, but UK has mastered on rethorics, deception and hypocrisy. So, what does UK pretend to receive in exchange?
Feb 19th, 2012 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 072 Ozgood continued...
Feb 19th, 2012 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you actually know anything about Rhodesia you would know that the Rhodesian intel sand MI6 were linked at the hip, you would know that serving members of the British forces mysteriously found there way into the Rhodesian Army and after independence in 1980, found their way back into the British Army. Britain also came up with the Lancaster House Agreement, which protected European farms and guaranteed whites 20% of the parliamentary seats up until 1990, it gave most of them time to get the hell out of there. What happened next couldn't be blamed on Britain. Did the UK make mistakes, yes, they had weak Prime Ministers. But it's not an argument that they should therefore continue to appease everyone - as you contradict yourself.
You say that Argentina has a right to the Falkland Islands. To underline the lunacy of that statement (alongside your wish to have seen Britain defend Portuguese Goa and white Rhodesia) , to Argentina the Falkland Islands and the Falklands people don't even exist!
“it still has to be said that the territorial issue does come first. Until it is determined where territorial sovereignty lies, it is impossible to see if the inhabitants have a right of self-determination”.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rosalyn Higgins, former British judge and President of the International Court of Justice
So if Argentina does have such a strong case then why does it refuse to go to the international court of justice? The UK is willing afterall.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you cant be practicing all time or for the rest of your life Monty....
Feb 19th, 2012 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and agree with you ARG up to what you have posted here
@Everyone. I'm loving this thread, I'm not sure I can add anything to it as you're all doing admirably in defending against Argentina's simple and basic greed.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I only have two points, the first being that Argentinians suffer from what we learned to be the 'Martyr Complex'. This is because they have dissonance between their being utterly incapable and their over-sized national ego. This basically leads to them claiming victim-hood at every corner and blaming other people for their failures. i.e. Not admitting they lost the Falklands war, and blaming the UK for piracy in order to get mental consistency.
The second aspect against which Argentina cannot argue is that the British decolonised their empire into some of the best and most stable democracies the world has seen. These have delivered unprecedented levels of social benefits and safety, the likes of which humanity has never seen before. Even the Japanese system of government is based upon the British system. We gave the industrial revolution, which has had widespread affects from everything from travel to medical care. Additionally, the Magna Charter formed the basis for most documents serving to deliver human rights. So, Australia, Canada, the USA, NZ, India, Falklands and many other countries have benefited from this.
In order to be a fitting judge, I ask what have the Argentinians given the world other than systematic genocide, an ideological facsimile of that in North Korea and a place for ex-SS servicemen to hang out? Then ask yourself why a country which has freely decolonised so many would be so keen to not let your evil paws anywhere near the Islanders?
@arg
Feb 19th, 2012 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Britain is one of the world’s financial capitals, one of the largest economies, one of the most politically influential nations, one of the 3 or 4 most powerful militaries on earth, one of the largest contributors to foreign aid, and a global leader in science, education, culture and other such categories. Thats where our practical authority comes from
And given that UN resolutions have zero legal or moral weight, we have zero reason to abide by them when they contradict the UN charter and ICJ laws. However argentina had no moral difficulty in committing mass genocide both against native argentines, and against political opponents, where your nation engaged in the “dirty war” against those you saw as being enemies to the state.
The UK does not pretend as your nation does, to be a “victim of colonialism”. Britain, like France, Germany, Russia, Belgium, China, Japan, African nations, middle eastern nations, the USA, Brazil and of course argentina, have a history of conquering other territories. Out of all those on the list however, only argentina has the self righteous hypocrisy to whine about being the “victim”.
The USA had declared independence long before it began it’s crimes against native Americans. However, unlike the USA your nation lacks the spine to accept responsibility so you just place all blame for the crimes you committed onto Spain.
Argentina is 99% primarily European descended, with barely 3% able to be considered “mestizos” (but still mostly white) and 96% being overwhelmingly European descended. Barely 1% of your country is native argentine. Argentina engaged in active campaigns of genocide against the entirety of the native inhabitants in the lands you stole, and you continue to suppress them to this day.
The fact you consider britain’s ownership of the Falklands to be more an injustice than your nation’s continued despicable treatment of the native argentines shows how little respect you deserve.
@119 jayD (#)
Feb 19th, 2012 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have nothing to do with Australia - I took the pseudonym from MAD MAGAZINE
I do know a little about the people, their language and their culture. They are in a mess and, if you understand Spanish, I suggest that you read Mario Vargas Llosa's critique SI LLORO POR TI ARGENTINA to understand more about the country and its people.
I still say that Rhodesia was handed over to Mugabe, a nice crypto communist, whose North Korean trained brigade murdered over 20000 Matabele in the early 1980s. The UK rewarded him with a knighthood, of which he has now been stripped
Did you expect all white Rhodesians to pack up and leave the country of their birth? At first Mugabe behaved reasonably but when he lost the 2000 elections he started expropriating white owned land. I think you should do some more research into this. His thugs keep him in power and not the people themselves.
Yes, Portugal was pro-facist during WW2. They did not maintain a legal policy of Apartheid in their colonies. Anyone could rise to the highest office provided that he or she had a good appearance . Think about who was behind the revolt and uprising in Angola in 1961. Who briught the Cubans into Angola?
Just remember that there are two sides to a story - AUDI ALTEREM PARTEM In fact their are really three sides, your side, my side and the truth which lies somewhere between the two extremes
There is also the Monroe Doctrine (1823) which states that America is for the Americans and foreign intervention should not be tolerated. Of course this policy is only used when it suits the USA.
@128 I think you meant to say Manifest Destiny, which outlined the need for the USA to expand such that it covered the whole of the Americas. It was the precursor to the German principle of Lebensraum, to which your Argentinian government prescribe.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With regard to your final point, the Queen of England reigns over Canada, and she's not American. So it certainly doesn't suit Canadians or Falkland Islanders.. or Greenland.. or that French Island off Canada. So I don't really see your point.
@111Think,
Feb 19th, 2012 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The cut & paste man. You know that you want me to post to you, don't you brother?
@109 Ozgood,
The reason that l brought up about living in murdered people's land(which it is) is to show Think & other Argentines that their hands are not clean either.
He is always calling us Squatters & that we are lmplanted, when thats exactly what Argentines are. He also thinks that somehow the Falklands belong to Argentina.
They have never belonged to Argentina.
l'm well aware of what happened in Australia.
l went to highschool there & got honours in Australian history.
Did you know that an Australian Police Patrol wiped out an entire tribe in the NT in the late 1920's? Going to blame the British for that are you?
Whats savage about strapping people over the muzzles of cannons? A rather quick & painless death l would have thought.
What would YOU have done with the Sepoys who murdered & wounded women & children, some of them babies, then threw them down a well til they were packed in like sardines. Many of them still alive.
As for the slave trade, well most nations were in it.
The Argentine's ancestors, the Spanish were in it up to their greasy little necks Britain abolished it in 1832 long before many other nations.
lt lasted in the Danish West lndies until 1848.
What has the Duke of Windsor & other pro-German or pro-nazi aristocrats have to do with the Falklands? Will you condem an entire nation because of the actions of a few?
lf you are an Aussie, then are you guilty too of the murders at Stringybark Creek?
l think that you don't know too much about all this, you are just Pommybashing.
@130 I don't think he realises that until just before that point the House of Windsor was called House of Sax-Coburg and Gotha embarassingly giving them the ability to claim the ducal throne in Germany. It's not surprising that some of those fun royals retained their allegiance to das Mutterland and wanted to try out the jack-boots and hat. Most people learn about this in school, finding it quite amusing.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think Oz is trying to find a way to blame UK for their ethnic cleansing of the locals. To be fair they managed to get the percentage down to 1% indigenous population. Now in order to claim victimhood, they have to find someone to blame it on.
@103 Now we can see why you call yourself “pooper”. It would be because you're full of “poop”, right?
Feb 19th, 2012 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@105 Yeah, get out of the way, P*rat.
@106 “As you may already know, Argentina was a Spanish colony. It is not a colony anymore if you are not well informed. It has been independent from Spain since 1816.” Pity that YOU, with your arrogance, cannot recognise a self-governing territory. A territory that has to rely on an acknowledged world power for defence because a nearby cuntry (deliberate spelling) has no better “right” than belligerency and attempted theft. A cuntry tha is so sure of its claim that it will whine in any international forum it can get to except the International Court of Justice. Shall we make a deal? Heads or tails. Heads you will accompany Britain to the ICJ and abide by the ruling. Tails we drop every nuclear warhead we have on your cesspit. What do you say?
@109 we stand by our history. In the context of the relevant times. Would you care to explain your attempted genocide between 1976 and 1983? 30,00, or more, wasn't it? High diving from an aircraft at 10,000 feet plus into the River Plate. Not necessarily by choice. And let's not forget that when the Duke of Windsor “flirted” with nazism, he may not have understood all the ramifications. By 1945 the whole world understood the bestial, genocidal, murderous, sadistic nature of the nazis. And who, pray, welcomed the war criminals, gave them refuge, gave them money, learned from them. After all, why go to the expense of gas chambers when you can drop your dissidents into a river from 10,000 feet? Hypocrite!
@110,111,113,114. Not enough space to respons to you properly, so let's give you a general round-up. The Falkland Islands are a self-governing British Overseas Territory. No-one with a brain or a smattering of intelligence gives a toss what argies think, believe or anything else. If argieland tries theft again, it has to die. All of it, everyone. don't think we can't, or we won't!
124 Xect: Here is your answer: the UK does not accept the jurisdiction of the Court regarding disputes and facts arisen before 1974, obviously excluding the dispute with Argentina. Text of the British declaration:
Feb 19th, 2012 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“1. The Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland accept as compulsory ipso facto and without special convention, on condition of reciprocity, the jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice, in conformity with paragraph 2 of Article 36 of the Statute of the Court, until such time as notice may be given to terminate the acceptance, over all disputes arising after 1 January 1974, with regard to situations or facts subsequent to the same date,”
Are you sure that you are ready to go to the ICJ?
you cant be practicing all time or for the rest of your life Monty....
Feb 19th, 2012 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That would explain why you argies dont do war well?
I didn't mention Marine Addis who disappeared at the settlement of North Arm in (circa) 1982-3 as it is largely speculation.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The case of Mike Bingham is known widely and his story has been published on the Internet and via a book available through Authorhouse.
I consider this forum to be irrelevant anyway as once that oil starts getting pumped out of the ground this issue will immediately turn from one of sovereignty to a dangerous escalation based on the ownership of natural resources in the region and this escalation will pull in the whole of south america in support of Argentina.
And that dear friends - is when what is at present - a low level diplomatic exchange of words begins to slide towards a nationalist driven dispute over natural resources and who has the right to them in that region.
And that is when the situation can easily run out of control by sparking an arms race in south america and an eventual military struggle the outcome of which is a foregone conclusion.
What particularly annoys me about this is the fact that the islanders dont need that oil. They have one of the highest per-capita incomes in the world and if their fishing industry and the increasingly viable farming sector is properly managed their future prosperty is guaranteed.
And I know they can see this so why are they persisting?
Is it simply naked greed driven by the self-assurance that britain has no choice but to spend whatever is necessary in the form of money and the lives of british servicemen in their defence?
Had they gone after the oil Argentina would have remained isolated in its claim to the Islands.
But now?
Argentina only has to maintain a non-beligerent position and wait and watch as events and nationalist passion amongst all the peoples of south america become inflamed and take over.
I have never seen anything so stupid.
And that is my last contribution to this forum of chest thumpers and morons.
99 Monty69
Feb 19th, 2012 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Falklands Conservation,- it employs people and has trustees”
And who are these trustees Monty??
I remember posting this in the past:
Of eight Trustees; three based in Malvinas Islands and five in the UK .
Two of those three(as far as I know) are linked to the fish and oil industry.
Wildlife conservation and fish and oil exploration are like oil and vinegar. they do not mix. You should hire Tony Hayward(BP) next time.
New Island Conservation Trust, Board of Trustees
:: Chairman
Air Vice-Marshal David O. Crwys-Williams CB FCIPD FCIM RAF (Rtd)
:: Trustees
Captain Peter J. Erskine CBE RN VMH
Mr Howard Pearce CVO
Mr Jeffrey Mills TD FRGS
Mr Lewis Clifton OBE (Everybody knows this oil guy master of corruption trustee)
Mrs Margaret Butler
Mrs Phyllis M. Rendell JP (“Oil girl”)
Professor J.P. Croxall CBE FRS
dreyfoss @78 is right Monty.
@135 Sad to hear you'll not be contributing tolanacion.com forums any more. I'm sure they'll miss you.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't mention Marine Addis who disappeared at the settlement of North Arm in (circa) 1982-3 as it is largely speculation
Feb 19th, 2012 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No speculation here
Desaparecidos
Alberto Santiago Burnichon. Villa Rivera Indarte, Cordoba. March 1976.
Gabriel Braunstein. Rio Cuarto, Cordoba. June 1976.
Hugo Alberto Scutari. Buenos Aires, August 1977.
Juan de Dios Gomez. Tucuman. August 1976.
Luciano Ramon Perez's Brother. Temperley, Buenos Aires. November 1976.
Eduardo “Dito” Priotti. La Plata, November 1976.
Samuel Leonardo Slutzky. La Plata, June 1977.
http://www.yendor.com/vanished/victims.html
#80 Brilliant Think, missed that one, thanks for pointing it out =) Love how he says rrrocks! Also listen up a few seconds later to hear him praise the English language as the greatest in the world, this is not a Britain hater, just a supporter of justice.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Feliz cumpleaños, Reina Cristina =)
Sorry but I have to post this again, great job George!!
Feb 19th, 2012 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The Falkland islands lies on Argentinas continental shelf, it lies 8000 miles away from us. We seized them by force, we put British settlers on it.
Argentina is lead by a fabulous president Cristina Kirchner, everybody else is laughing at us. They say the people of the Falkland islands have the right of self determination, NO THEY DON'T!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRgRh6qjSs8
132# conkerer-I can't concurr with anything you posted there.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0( No-one with a brain or a smattering of intelligence gives a toss what argies think, believe or anything else.)
Had you said without a brain,I would have realised you were writing with the benefit of experience,but alas..........
(139) Scottish_Kirchnerist
Feb 19th, 2012 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr. Galloway was right about Gaza.
Mr. Galloway was right about Iraq.
Mr. Galloway was right about Afghanistan.
Mr. Galloway was right about the Banks.
Mr. Galloway was right about Libya.
Mr. Galloway is right about Malvinas.
PS:
English spoken with a Scottish accent “a la Galloway” is music for the earrrs…….
@139 Hmm.. you Argies with your curious bizarre set of allies. Quite fun to watch you agreeing with each other about how much you love George Galloway's late night extravaganza (unheard of it myself). It's about time you get back to some serious victimhood, however.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@yoghurt & braedon
Feb 19th, 2012 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please, may you have to change your Wikipedia data discourse?; please don’t keep on trying to pretend you know more than an Argentinean about our social composition. You are clearly not right and if you keep on writing nonsense numbers I suggest you to come to Argentina just to have a firsthand primer on it. Please, I suggest visiting all the country, not just BA, OK? So, I can not tell you more. I don’t like to discuss on this sterile arena if it concludes in ignorance.
That is; if you decide something is BLACK it will continue being BLACK no matter what the reality is, but don’t try everybody to think like you. In fact, fascist’s ideas begin this way: by denying all class of reasons apart of the one you have learned in school. As the English gentleman you are, with so much economic power, it would be good for you to try and see other parts of the world. If you were my sons I would recommend you to do so. You’ll never learn so much about your own country that when you are out of it.
On the other hand, to me, practical reasons are NO reasons at all. A thief could have good practical reasons to steal; but he will continue to be a thief, no matter his “cultural leadership”, his political influential and his economics. Thieves can be very rich, you know? There are a lot all over the world (including in my country, by a matter of fact). But this doesn’t change facts. This does not have anything to do with legality nor with moral. If this is a great British legacy that your country gives the world OK, keep on trying... I only tell you that someday this bullying will finish. I would prefer thinking of UK as the mother of Newton, Locke, etc., but in my mind I (and in those of millions like me) for sure I will continue thinking in right by the force (and or influence), education just for the rich, xenophobia, highest pre-juice and ... thieves.
Finally, I don’t see any consistency on the theoretical psychoanalyst idea of an oversized ego with self-pityn
@144 the social composition of Argentina is 99% Spanish-Italian & ex-SS Germans, and the remaining 1% consist of the 'Indigenous Question' (see Jewish Question). Where you basically killed all the tribesfolk.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've lived abroad, thanks for asking.
“I only tell you that someday this bullying will finish” >> can you tell the Islanders when, because they're bored of your bullying.
You can now get back to crying over the body of Eternal Leader Mussolini, sorry, Nestor.
144 agrie
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0to call us thieves is just a silly, the history of your country is just as messy :p
@ Yoghurt
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0OK, you may have learnt a couple of things about UK. Hope it would have been useful as I just hope I'm not discussing with a yoghurt child.
Please, be polite and don't try to identify me with Nestor, and or with any political movement linked to fascism. I could say I'm in the opposite political side, but I don't deny Hitory “gentleman”.
#142 I completely agree, Mr Galloway is a hero.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#145 Its really funny to see British racists attacking the Argentines for being too....white!
148. you do know george galloway, isn't that popular in the uk. im left-wing (mostly) and i think he's a bit of a dick.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know he's made a lot of powerful enemies and is usually portrayed badly in the biased media, but he also has a huge following, both in the country and worldwide. Theres also shallow people, you might be one of them, who say they share his politics but say things like Big Brother are more important.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@148 Not sure where you dug 'racism' out from. Argentinian isn't a race, it's a group of spanish conquistadors, followers of Mussolini and ex-SS troopers combined with the tiny population of aboriginals who they didn't manage to exterminate yet. Hatred of a 'country' such as Argentinians is typically classed as xenophobia, not racism.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is only too white because they killed all the non-whites. That's something to which your political ideology ascribes, otherwise referred to as 'Herrenvolk'. Ethnic cleansing and racial superiority are also something ascribed to your friends in North Korea.
You should strap on a pair of balls and go live in Argentina, maybe you can be their latest useful idiot and go on tv saying how great they are for their explansionism.
@144 Arg
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We get our information from the source, be it historical documents, quotations, and direct interactions with others. All we have seen and experienced from argentina is self pity, stupidity, arrogance, hypocrisy, self righteousness, and delusions of importance. You personally have reinforced every one of these criteria, and that is how you and your country will be judged.
And while your attempts to project your own nation’s obsession onto us is amusing, it is painfully out of touch with reality. Britain is not delusionally obsessed with the Falkland as argentina is, and thus there is no attempt to brainwash children with nationalist propaganda as your country does.
You again whine about Britain being “thieves” yet you still have not answered what gave argentina the moral and legal right to commit mass land theft on EVERY inch of land it now possesses, as well as commit outright genocide on the native inhabitants for “resisting”, before settling them with white Europeans. The few surviving natives still live in abject poverty and disenfranchisement while white Europeans like you continue to use their land and resources. And yet you have the spine less self pity to claim you are the victims?
And as for “historical achievements”, in the field of medicine alone Britain has saved and improved the lives of billions through the invention and implementation of vaccination, antibiotics, antiseptics, anesthetic, blood transfusion and other such innovations. And that is just a fraction of our total legacy to the world.
what the hell has argentina ever accomplished for you to claim “historical moral supremacy” as you do?
as im cornish and live in the uk, i can say huge support is maybe a bit of a over statement. he's just a bitter old man, who's always been too left-wing for the british main stream. :)
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@140 Marcos Alejandro
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v9IXwFb_cg&feature=fvst
@153 George Galloway is a bit like Red Ken is a bit like Sean Penn. They go jumping around the planet trying to dry hump anything vaguely ex-soviet in an attempt to deny to themselves the reality that communism in reality was a resounding failure. The only places left who actually even bother pretending it wasn't a failure are a few misled South American countries and North Korea. Even Chinese politics is widely accepted as being communist in name only.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Following only one memorable moment in his entire career when he told the senate committee to not throw stones in their glass houses... he's typically seen by society as being a drenched in fail, and relegated to radio shows when everyone is in the pub, therefore not listening... He'd fit in well in Buenes Aires, and I can see why you all like him so.
155 the senate committee was by FAR his finest moment :) those US senator's didn't know what to do with him!
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#151 Racism or xenophobia, the hatred of “argies” on this site hardly suggests a sincere commitment to anti-racism, and I imagine those indulging in it would not normally be instinctively on the side of the non-whites =)
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Will you stop saying I don't have balls, just because I chose to live in my own country and fight to make it better rather than running away to a country that seems to be doing well enough without me! Of course if I was famous I would love to be the next Sean Penn speaking for peace and decolonisation in Buenos Aires, but right now the best I can do is campaign at the grassroots, and of course fight right wing nutters like you on here =)
136 Marcos Alejandro
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0New Island Conservation Trust and Falklands Conservation are completely different organisations you tit.
157 you want to decolonise Buenos Aires, you good sport. but where is everyone going to go?
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Amazing how distraction works,
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We have no answer, so we distract them,
Lets find someone they may dislike and jump on the band wagon,
Mr Galloway is entitled to his own opinion,
But as Mustafa laugh once said,
When the terrorist strike they care not who you are,
Where you are, or how you are,
They will still turn you into a jigsaw puzzle
So laying on your back, and kissing the feet of a supposed virgin, will not save you
[big brother] .
and Argentina is not a country you’d want to be associated with”
said his cousin, mustafa friend .
The diference between you and us is that we don't denied I past, good or wrong doings. After democracy was restored history start to teach in a very revisionist way. For example they teach about that the Campaña del Desierto was more a extermination enterprise than anything else.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The diference with you is that is keep teaching to your kids that all the goods the British Empire give to their colonies and only mention a few and justify masacres and putting the real truth hide under the carpet. Some groups are
trying to change the curriculum to give British school-children a ‘valuable insight into shared, if painful and often controversial aspects of the relationship between Indian and Britain’ but there are groups opposing this because this kind of teaching is considered anti-British. How can the dissemination of truth be anti anything?
Shame of a society to try to keep all the genociedes that commit in the past hide it in the closet. The truth must be teach it at school like is been teach in german school about the nazi german.
Shame of you !!!!!
128 Ozgood
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know only too well about the history of Rhodesia, it where my parents were born, it's where my cousins were born and it's where my aunt and uncle still live.
I disagree with what Britain did but to understand why they did it you have to understand the politics of the time. British politics was dominated by socialists who objected fundamentally to the Smith government, they objected with military engagements overseas, they led the move for Britain to get out of overseas colonial commitments. The Tories, led by weak, liberals like Edward Heath, Anthony Eden, Peter Carington (who dominated the first few years of the Thatcher government), were not much better.
Britain did have the interests of Rhodesia's European population (90% of them were of British extraction and most carried British passports), the government went out of its way to play both sides. They ha the Cold War to deal with and African politics in the Cold War played East off against the West. Britain wanted to keep her former African colonies allied to the West, rather than see a repeat of what happened to Portugal's former colonies.
You say: “Think about who was behind the revolt and uprising in Angola in 1961. Who brought the Cubans into Angola?”
The Soviets and their Eastern Block allies were behind the revolt in Angola and Mozambique. They also sponsored and equipped the ZAPU and ZANLA guerrillas in Rhodesia.
Britain though it could buy Mugabe off, the same way they managed to buy Kenyatta off and for a time it seemed to have worked. The problem came when Mugabe looked like loosing the 2000 elections, to a new party that had support from the white farming community. Mugabe used race, the same way Hitler used it, in order to pander to peoples base tribal bigotries. Britain's reaction to this was tame to say the least.
@157 I'm not right wing, I'm completely non-political, thanks for asking.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So we already know you're a coward because you're too scared to live in Argentina (Mar Mierda). However, you must be Argentinian, because all you can do is try to project blame other people for Argentinian master-race policies and try to act like they're the victim.
When you go to Buenes Aires (you won't because you're sack-free), be a nice chap and remind them about the “1850 Convention between Great Britain and the Argentine Confederation, for the Settlement of existing Differences”, that they signed. Thanks.
158 Monty69 Is it? The same oil British crooks in charge of another organization responsible for the protection of the wildlife.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.falklandswildlife.com/pages/who.htm
161 i really don't know who's eduction system your talking about. it wasn't the one i studied under.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you were completely non-political why would you be making (bad) political arguments on here?! I'm not Argentine but I hope to go some day, the question of my balls I have said enough on elsewhere =)
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know what the british have given to world, can anyone think of what Argentina has? (apart from a good giggle) ?
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@165 I was thinking the same thing. I can pretty much remember being taught that we invented the concentration camp, didn't sweep that gem under the rug did they. I fear it is yet another Argie trying to blame someone for his own fact-free education. Poor chap.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@166 Go with our blessings to Argentina (You'll never go, and that's a FACT)
Maybe one day I'll be famous myself and will go and meet Cristina as a supporter. Otherwise I'll just save up for a nice holiday =) What would I have to worry about?
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#161
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bullshit.
You will not find any revisionist history taught in the UK, it is taught warts and all.
However, revisionist history is alive and well in Argentina.
Examples on this thread alone. The frequent references to an Argentine population supposedly expelled from the Falkland Islands in 1833. This did not happen, its a lie.
The revisionist history that spins the murderer Rivero as a “freedom fighter” leading a fight to regain the Falklands for Argentina is pure bullshit. He was a common thug who murdered the senior members of Vernet's settlement for silver. Nothing more, in fact it was Rivero that put an end to Vernet's enterprise.
The repeated claim Argentina has always protested. Crap. Argentina signed the Convention of Settlement in 1850 and did not protest again for 35 years. After 1885 it was not raised again till 1941.
Typical Argentine chutzpah to claim others behave as you do. Don't judge others by your own low standards.
@169 When you see her, if she's not having botox, then can you remind her about the “Convention between Great Britain and the Argentine Confederation, for the Settlement of existing Differences and the re-establishment of Friendship” that was signed in 1850? Thanks.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0169 as long as you don't do what sean penn did, i mean hitting your wife and taking drugs :)
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No I'll leave the arrogant irrelevant lecturing to you =)
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@173 Why is it irrelevant? It was an agreement between UK and the Argies to settle all existing differences (sovereignty, etc) and be friends again. Surely that's a good thing right?
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0174 i've read about that in a number of books about the 82 battle (wasn't a war), Argentineans like to pass over it, god knows why? lol
Feb 19th, 2012 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@175 it's because the 1850 agreement is legally binding. It makes the Argies look like fools acting against their own agreements... and it's the 1850 agreement that makes them wet the bed about going to the ICJ.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“and be friends again. Surely that's a good thing right?”
Feb 19th, 2012 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If only Cameron could do that now and give peace a chance, instead of stealing the oil
@175 It's not stealing if the agreement in 1850 says it's not. Legalised objective fact.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would be refreshing if the Falkland Island authorities stopped making references and talking about Argentina all over the world. I already know you do not want to have any relations with Argentina, the world does as well. I can understand why to be honest. But then stop talking about Argentina! (specially if life in the Falklands is undisturbed).
Feb 19th, 2012 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For all the statements of the Argie obsession with the islands, I would like to see the islanders stop thinking about Argentina. The sooner both sides pretend neither exist the better. I want no relations with the islanders. I do want for peace to exist and for them to be left in peace and free to make their own choices.
The 1850 Agreement is totally irrelevant for the Falkland Islands (Malvinas) dispute. It concerned the settlement of the dispute concerning the blockade (a true one, with warships and use of force) of the River Plate. Please, read it. If you are confident that by this treaty Argentina relinquished its sovereignty over the Islands, Argentina will be very happy. Still a British population living on Argentine territory
Feb 19th, 2012 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@179tobias,
Feb 19th, 2012 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0l heartily agree. You leave us alone & we'll leave you alone.
(Damn, l'll have to find another pastime if l can't stir RGs up!)OJ♥
@180 Marcelo Kohen,
Wrong, the Falklands are NOT Argentine territory & never have been.
Greek yoghurt is Briton reborn
Feb 19th, 2012 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry i may use *
Feb 19th, 2012 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0first i'd like to say i wish i didn't have a problem with argentina, i'm european (Cornish). from my point of view argentina needs to grow the hell up!. WE ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE, who made the british empire (its history). we are now the Commonwealth of nationals. with the Queen as its figurehead. everyone (with a brain) in the uk knows what we did to get that empire, same as any empire in history including the spainish empire you were part of. jesus christ people do you know anything about history! Considering what happen in the 20th century, the war crimes of the british empire are small fry. we owned 1/4 of the world and now those countries are in the commonwealth. so stop talking about the f**king british empire, you just sound like idiots!!!!!!!!!
as the argentinean bloggers love to say AAHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA grow up
It would be refreshing if the Falkland Island authorities stopped making references and talking about Argentina all over the world
Feb 19th, 2012 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[][ considering it was Argentina that started all this, [was it not]
And also was it not Argentina that has dragged this crap right up to the echelons of all governments, just to make a point, [and still got nowhere]
Please no more [pot][kettle][black]
The 1850 Agreement is totally irrelevant for the Falkland Islands
[][ yes oh yes you are again completely right, those nasty brits kicking those ladies and children out of the Falklands, sorry [Malvinas] in 1833 just as they were all watching the TV then the nasty brits arrived, kicked them all out, destroyed all the villages and the towns and the cities, then re built it as a British town, put up the union jack,, bad brits, we broke all those agreements , and all you Malvinas wanted was a nice quiet night in,
[Well if you have a complaint, take it to the ICJ ]
hmmmhmm
.
Cornishair,it's very sad what you say,unless you are not born Cornish.Why you are not more amicable to other peoples is rather strange as you are Celtic and not British.Celts are much less aggressive than British and they have to co-exist with this aggressive and domineering people.But you are welcome to your opinion of course.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0briton, it's the F.I. who state to want no relation with Argentina, so the onus is on them to not talk about Argentina as a COUNTRY regardless of what it does. Of course they have the right to denounce publicly specific actions the argentine government takes, but any comments about the country outside that realm are hypocrisy.
Feb 19th, 2012 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0185 i think you'll find Celts where born to fight, look at the Scots >_
Feb 19th, 2012 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your main problem, is that you guys can’t tell the difference between a genius and a fool,
Feb 19th, 2012 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For a genius is correctly observant ,, and a fool just follows, is this not true,
182 Yuleno
Is it not better, to be a re-born British genius,
Rather than an indoctrinated fellow, chuckle,
Yuleno
Perhaps one day, when you understand that democracy means you cant have what you never owned,
To be respected with nothing, is better than being hated with greed,
Just a bit .lol.
186 tobias
Wrong again,
You cant re-brand them to your tune,
Facts are facts, if Argentina did not start this, none of this would be happening now would it ,
You cant blame the islanders for there re-action to argentina aggression,
You cant have it both ways .
p/s Celts probable did not get that far west,
as a Devonian you will find the west was the last bastion of the brits, including wales and northern England .
188 whats with your flag? >_< look a lot like mine
Feb 19th, 2012 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0185 Yuleno
Feb 19th, 2012 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Celts are British- the original British in fact. You obviously know nothing about it. Most modern British have a hefty dollop of pre-Roman Celtic DNA.
Most of mine is Irish so where does that leave your theory?
You may be getting ahead of your selves,
Feb 19th, 2012 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please quote me if im wrong,
Argentina and the Falklands were relatively ok, up to 1982,
Then Argentina illegally and without provocation invaded them,
The brits came and kicked you out,
Peace and calm was restored, the relationship settled , agreements were made, then for some reason Argentina one by one either stopped or just ignored the agreements and broke them, then Argentina started to get very shifty with the Falklands, and when oil was discovered CFK started to insult and abuse the islanders, threatened them and up to today, blockading them [partly] trying to stop the flights to the Falklands, getting most of south America to back them, insulting the British , no end of abuse,
[please inform me] what the islanders and the British government has done to retaliate on Argentina, what harm have we done to you, except answer back insults, , considering all that you have done to harm the islanders, please tell me what the islanders have done to hurt argentines,
As we all agree, words are words, aggression is aggression .
Mmmm
189 cornishair
Nearly same as, my family decent from devon.
.
@183 If you know so well about the atrocities and genocides of the natives the british empire commit in the past, why all of you keep bringing up what argentina did in the las decades of the 19th century. If we remain you of all the bad thing Britiain did in the past you call us anti-british. Can I call you anti-argentina or argentinophobia for the same reason ?
Feb 19th, 2012 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't like to be call nazi, or facist, or genocide all the time by you people.
I realize what happen in our history but you can't blame me for that like I can't blame you for the bad thing the british did in the past.
So please stop insulting constantly.
And stop making up lies like does GreekYoghurt constantly in these pages. Before talking soo bad about my country he shoul better visit us to find out that we are not as bad people like he constantly says.
And please Conqueror stop threat us about blow us up you make me sick of just reading your post. You are an embarrase for uk. Give yourself a favor and take a psicotic pill to calm you down a little, you are a very sick man.
@Greek yoghurt
Feb 19th, 2012 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hi. I agree with your comment 102.
The regular units on the islands are a fairly good deterrent to aggression, I was suggesting that we may need to reinforce the garrison if the sort of activity the Argentines are up to continues.
I have read a little about the FIDF and don't doubt that they would resist an assualt on their homes and families.
I would not be surprised if they have been trained to act as stay behind units, in the same way that we organised similar units of sabouters and irregulars for the mainland UK in 1940, in case the germans had tried an invasion.
To add to any Argentines misery I would like to point out that even if they did secure the islands in a successful invasion, holding them is another matter.
I personally would prosecute a prolonged war against Argentina, including a formal declaration and stating that the south atlantic was a war zone.
I would maintain a naval blockade by submarine, lobbing tomahawks into mainland Argentina and landing SAS/SBS and other light forces onto the islands equipped with portable SAM systems, ATGW, mortars and heavy sniper weapons - such as the Barret 50. Combined with using explosive devices against Argentine patrols and installations, we would be able to make the islands effectively ungovernable and the steady flow of body bags would eventually erode the Argentinians will to resist.
Using RN surface assets I would attack or seize any Argentine shipping I could find. They like calling us pirates, I would give them a dose of unrestricted commerce warfare that would show them how a blockade is really done.
If I can come up with this sort of strategy you can bet that someone will have thought about it in whitehall.
@yuleno hahahaha - the celts are a warrior race I know plenty of scots and welsh people, and all you have to do is watch them in the 6 nations to get proof (we've got a tough game against wales next week).
words are words,, actions are actions,
Feb 19th, 2012 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the point is, the year today is 2012, we have democracy freedom of choice,
the question is simple,
do you belive that the people have a right to decide who govens them, yes or know,
your answer is very well the solver of the problem.
everyone has their right of opionion on argentina so respect all thats
Feb 19th, 2012 - 11:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“International lawyers have tended not to look for better ways of making policy territorial decisions but have instead tried to extend the legal ‘modes’; as for example by the transformation of ‘self-determination’ from being a useful political notion, into a ‘right’ of ‘self-determination’, apparently enjoyed by ‘peoples’. This circular and question begging ‘right’ still calls for a political decision about what is a ‘people’ for this purpose, as indeed also what status they self-determine on a scale varying between independence and dependence. How much better it would have been to recognise that wise or right policy sometimes makes certain changes desirable and that there should therefore be a regular machinery for making changes on ground of policy, rather than a ‘right’ that actually by the ‘self’ element puts a premium on successful violence”
Feb 20th, 2012 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sir Robert Jennings, former British Judge and President of the International Court of Justice
196 Marcelo Kohen
Feb 20th, 2012 - 12:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0I completely agree with you, and do you know you would find it hard to find a people more distinct from Argentines than Falkland Islanders.
We have the right to self determination now because Britain chooses to give it to us, but if you ever looked like getting anywhere with that claim of yours, we would have it anyway by being distinct from you.
A Scottish claim ??
Feb 20th, 2012 - 04:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/02/20/och-aye-the-falklands-noo/
(197) Monty96
Feb 20th, 2012 - 05:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have a lot of Malvineros called Anderson’s, Blain’s, Cameron’s, Campbell´s, Cout´s, Dickie´s, Douglas´s, Finlayson´s, Frazer´s, Hallyday’s, McAskill´s, McCall´s, McDaid´s, McHattie´s, McLean´s, McPhee´s, Morrison´s, Murray´s, Patterson´s, Saunders´s, Stewart’s, Wallace´s, Williams´s and, of course, McDonald´s all over Patagonia; living proof that you are talking like a Turnip, dear child.............
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/scotsinargpat/malvineros.htm
PS:
I would dare to say that there are as many true Malvineros-descendants in Patagonia as they are in them Islands.
Difstinct???
My left foot!!!
@196 Macellussolini, That's why the Treaty of 1850 is so delicious, because it had the Argentinians legally signing a document that says you have settled all existing differences with the british. If you want to renege on that treaty or just be fraudulent as a nation, then just say it out loud and be proud!! Be proud of what you are.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 07:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0SHOUT IT NOW!! COME ON, BE PROUD “I'M AN ARGENTINIAN AND I RENEGE ON ALL MY PEACE TREATIES” SHOUT IT SO WE ALL KNOW YOUR HEART.
... or descend back into fraudulence.
1850 Treaty does not deal with the Falkland Islands (Malvinas) dispute at all. It concerned the British blockade (a true one, with vessels and use of force) of the River Plate. You need more than this for a transfer of sovereignty....Remember by the way that in a typically position of force, you rejected any request of Argentina to negotiations after having expelled Argentina from the Islands. Or even more: you said from the very beginning: the matter is closed. Argentina's position was that it will always consider that it was illegally deprived of its possession and it keeps its sovereignty. One would say that nothing has changed in the British arrogant position since 1833...
Feb 20th, 2012 - 08:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina's position was that it will always consider that it was illegally deprived of its possession and it keeps its sovereignty.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 08:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0War of the Triple Alliance
Argentina sought to enforce one of the secret clauses of the Triple Alliance Treaty which permitted Argentina to annex a large portion of the Gran Chaco region, an area that was rich in quebracho wood (a product used in the tanning of leather). The Argentine negotiators proposed to Brazil that Paraguay should be divided in two, with each of the victors incorporating a half into its territory
Eventually the post-war border between Paraguay and Argentina was resolved through long negotiations and was finalized on February 3, 1876 with a treaty which granted Argentina roughly a third of the area it had originally desired.
202 you have a selective way to study Argentine history. Irrespective of that some inaccuracy, what does have to do with the Argentine-British dispute concerning the Falkland Islands (Malvinas)? I assume you consider that the British history is a model of respect of other peoples' rights, human rights and peace...The British Empire created trouble whenever it went and applied its colonial imperialism. It artificially divided Africa (not to speak about slavery), opium war, India/Pakistan, Israel/Palestine, expelled the Chagossians from their territory at the time of “self-determination”, etc etc
Feb 20th, 2012 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0My final comment is:
Feb 20th, 2012 - 09:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Chile and Argentina had military regimes/juntas ruling them.
Chile would appear to be prosperous and progressive today. Clearly Pinochet, although he did many nasty things, gave his country good government. Argentina is still struggling. Why?
Part of the answer to this may be found in Vargas LLosa's critique SI LLORO POR TI ARGENTINA -The Peruvian , Varga Llosa is a Nobel Laureate in Literature. He maintains that the Argentines chose the worst form of government/politicians for themselves
Populist politicians won the day. The army used to feel that it had the right to intervene if it was not happy with the politicians
Yet Argentina was a net creditor nation at the end of WW2! Where did the money go?
@199(he, whose name may not be spoken)Thunk,
Feb 20th, 2012 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Greetings Elder Earthling.
Do any of these Scottish named Patagonians have Gaucho blood, like the Falklanders do?
You know, Thinkus, the Gauchos who your silly country claims were evicted in 1833.
Btw- are there any Millars(not Millers) in Patagonia?
Be interested to know.
@201 I just asked my lawyer friend and they said that “Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain, and his Excellency the Governor and Captain-General of the Province of Buenos Ayres, charged with the foreign relations of the Argentine Confederation, being desirous of putting an end to the existing differences, and of restoring perfect relations of friendship, in accordance with the wishes manifested by both Governments” was legally binding and clearly showed intent to resolve all existing differences, those mentioned and unmentioned. She went on to say that articles just cover the method of enacting the agreement.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0SHOUT IT NOW!! COME ON, BE PROUD “I'M AN ARGENTINIAN AND I RENEGE ON ALL MY PEACE TREATIES” SHOUT IT SO WE ALL KNOW YOUR HEART.
also @201 in 1822 only the gauchos Joaquin Acuña (Brazilian), Mateo Gonzalez, and their respective wives left. Only they were considered to be 'genuine' islanders by the Argentine in charge at the time, José María Pinedo, the Commander of the Sarandí, the Argentine ship that had landed the garrison at Port Louis on the 6th October 1832. So, you can hardly say 'we ejected everyone'.
@202 We know their modus operandi and they clearly care about peace as much as they care about their peace treaties. I say they're fraudulent...FACT
Continue to read the treaty please. Particularly the operative parts.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 10:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Question: did the British authorised Vernet to come back to the Islands?
@207 I've got a joke while you answer your own question.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Quesiton: What's the difference between a McDonalds Burger-artist and an Argentinian?
Answer: The Burger-artist has one M on his hat and the Argie has two S's.
See what I did there? Ho ho ho
199 Think
Feb 20th, 2012 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed. I had supper with one Roddy McLean of somewhere in Chilean Patagonia a few years back. He was, well, quite orange in hue, and was more comfortable speaking Spanish than English. It must be something in the water.
The evening was most memorable for his wife's admiration of our home grown produce. He; 'These turnips are tasty, why don't we grow them?'' She ''I don't know, I'll tell the men to plant some''
I only relate this to show our esteemed readers the differences in culture between our two countries. A McLean in the Falkland Islands would be quite a different thing to a McLean over there. They made their choice, and we have made ours.
Anyway, we then drank a quantity of Mr M's malt whiskey; it seems different cultures can find something in common after all.
I don't know why people bang on about 180+ year old history on this topic. It doesn't really have a great deal of relevance today.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Look at it a different way - even the Argentines believe the Chagos islanders had a right to self determination - and yet they had been there for less time than the Falklanders have been on the Falkland islands.
187&190#
Feb 20th, 2012 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The celts are not fools and I didn't say they were,defending oneself is not aggressive and the celts territory,like the mapuche's has contracted as well as their cultural practise's and co-incidentally there is a British involvement in both.
But how you square you Britishness when your are celts with what the British have done I can't understand.Mr summers is British I believe?
Why are you back in 10th century talking about Celts as if they exist still. Pretty much every bit of research into phenotypes has shown that the people of the british isles are genetic mongrels. The only people who claim to be Celts any more are people on the east coast of USA.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unless you want to blame the vikings for taking dublin... bad vikings.
It seems that for some, when Onsolw arrived to the islands and expel Argentina, he sent a “telegrame” to London stating “now the islands have the government their inhabitants wish!”
Feb 20th, 2012 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@133 Still no problem with the ICJ. Have you read the other 65 Declarations? Have you got a list of all the matters on which the relevant States won't recognise the jurisdiction of the ICJ?
Feb 20th, 2012 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@141 Bit lame, Yule Log! How was your last trip round the “S” bend?
@144 What an interesting discourse. Regrettably, I can't visit argieland to test its veracity. I prefer living and breathing. If I understand your words correctly, you don't like bullying or thieving. Why don't you stop?
@150 A huge following? That would be you and who else? Did he stop supporting Saddam Hussein before or after he was hanged? How is he on Hezbollah these days? Because he does like to get on their media stations doesn't he? Just how much did “wee Georgie” make out of the “Oil for Food” programme? £375,000 a year, wasn't it? Did he make as much as CFK has?
@157 What's wrong with hatred of argies? They've tried to steal our territory four times. Now they're having a fifth go.
@161 And when was the last time you were in a British school?
@169 Could you go tomorrow? A one-way ticket would be fine!
@179 Could you do some research? How many of your politicians have made inflammatory statements about the Falklands. We have the Kich Bitch, Tin Man, Putrid Jelly, Argumental and how many others? You stop talking and acting against the Falklands and we'll stop talking about you.
@180 You have a problem. Have you actually READ the Convention? Let me try to help. You cannot have a Settlement of existing Differences and the re-establishment of Friendship if you have a “difference” outstanding. I'm sure that if his Excellency the Governor and Captain-General of the Province of Buenos Ayres, his Excellency the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Doctor Don Felipe Arana had wanted to mention the Falklands he would have done so.
@192 Remember who started it. We are defensive. And it's not a threat. It's a promise.
@196 Try reading Article 73 of the UN Charter.
@201 & 203 Illiterate revisionism.
I like the headline of this report, if illegal aliens occupying Islas Malvinas Argentina can take the freedom to fuel hate against the country they occupy illegally, Imagine how we Argentine feel about this , international pirats, thieves, filthy murderers and child molesters.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The words by mr summers, show one more time his qualities of a mediocre politician, someone who uses a cheap nationalism, and tells only what is convenient for him.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0While he only victimises the islanders, and considers argentina as a school yeard bully, he omits that his motherland, and the islanders reject sistematicly since 1982 the resolutions from the u. n, which call the two parts of the conflict to resume the negotiations. Someone should tell summers that even cristina said in diferent oportunities that arg. is not asking the u. k. to recognize that the islands are argentine, and also assured that none islander will have to renounce to his british nationality, we are just asking them to dialogue with us, and find a fair solution. On the other hand if we are the best or the worse country of the world, that's insignificant, if the u. n and most international comunity call the two sides to resume the negotiations, it must be respected. Beside, dont be so mediocre mr summers, you know very well that in most countries there are corruption cases, it doesn't happen only in argentina, dont use that pathetic argument to reject the negotiations.
Beside, respecting the freedom of press, i dont deny that the government eliminated the official advertising which represents 10% of the whole advertising, to some newspapers that were very critic of it's government, i never supported that decition, but it also sanctioned a new broadcast law, and declared of public interest the fabrication of paper. On the other hand, if you want to know about the state of the whole press in argentina, and the rest of the world, i suggest you search on line, the report of 2011 by reporteros sin frontera, i gave a good situation for argentina.
@216 It's a bit like when Argetina completely ignored UN Security Council resolution 502 then. Good point though, because the UN let UK use article 51 which let us use 'self defence'. You can only use self defence if it's your territory. Clearly UN saw it as our territory in 1982, pretty much as it does now.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No one wants to know about your neo-goebellian lack of press freedoms, you clearly suffer from 'pressTV syndrome' and that's a FACT.
The British Empire created trouble whenever it went and applied its colonial imperialism. It artificially divided Africa (not to speak about slavery), opium war, India/Pakistan, Israel/Palestine, expelled the Chagossians from their territory at the time of “self-determination”, etc etc
Feb 20th, 2012 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well you argies aint done too bad in 200 years and not having a empire
Blacks formed a disproportionate part of the Argentine army in the long and bloody War of Paraguay (1865–1870), in which the loss of lives on both sides were high. The official historiography maintains that this resulted in the disappearance of the black population, while the genocide claims contend that the disproportionate recruitment was intentional.
genocides of the Conquest of the Desert
Around 1500 strikers were shot dead during the events of the “Patagonia Trágica ” ... that scarred for life the history of the workers' movement in Argentina.
Around 1500 strikers were shot dead during the events of the “Patagonia Trágica ” ... that scarred for life the history of the workers' movement in Argentina.
The Eden Hotel
The hotel is a haunting testament to the murky relationship Argentina shared with the Nazis, hundreds of whom flocked here after the war, drawn by the open-door policy of General Juan Domingo Peron, who had fascist sympathies.
– ESMA's main building, known as Cuatro Columnas. ... the Navy Mechanics School, was one of the most infamous torture centers of Argentina's
At least 10 indigenous children have died from malnutrition in north-west Argentina this year. How could this be happening in one of the world's biggest food-exporting countries?
In addition to killing the children and experimenting with human beings, ... “GSK Argentina set an protocol at the hospital,
28 Filippo (#)
Feb 20th, 2012 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a load of rubbish, you can't be serious? Please, are you joking? Papal Bull my arse! The one thing you said that was not very funny was the mention of James Peck and his brave father Terry. You, by choice of words, insulted James Peck as describing him as some sort of sacrificial lamb on the altar of Papal Bull and by insulting the memory of his father who he loved very much and respected. The Peck family have lived on the islands for many generations and are amoungst some of the earliest settlers. Terry Peck fought with British Paratroopers in the defence of his country where he was born and bred. Fillipo, you are a prize cock head and I'm sure that you are an embarrasment to your fellow citizens.
BritishLion:
Feb 20th, 2012 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He's a Brit pretending to be a Argie.
So yes, he is an embarrassment to his fellow citizens.
“comunity call the two sides to resume the negotiations, it must be respected. ”
And it has been. Negotiations have been held in the past about all sorts of issues, Fishery's, Transport, ect. Nowhere in any resolution does it state that we have to negotiate sovereignty, and we wont.
This guy is 100% correct. Only morons like Sean Penn would want to be associated with this tin pot dictatorship. Oh, well. I guess CFK can blow bubbles at the islands and hope the British run away. She only wants the oil money to pay for more surgery. The woman has more plastic inside her than a Taiwanese toy factory.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0216 axel arg
Feb 20th, 2012 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If there are only two sides to this dispute, then why are you interested in what Mike Summers thinks?
that is right when all political lies and trash fail to work let imitate the brits and use childish insults and personal attacks against our 1807 sworn enemy, they o it to everybody. just look around with your eyes wide open.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0GREEK YOGHURT. STICK UP YOUR JUNTA.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0GREEK YOGHURT: I confirm one more time that you dont interpret correctly the actual politic moment. In my comment 216 i criticise summer's pathetic and hipocrite analysis, and you argue about the events of the war. It's very easy to use the war in order to reject the negotiations, that shows that you are as mediocre as summers, it's obvious that none democracy was going to support the actions of a fascist dictatorship that killed planty of people. But what you omit is that despite the war, the u. n has always continued calling the two parts to resume negotiations, and the few ways that you have to reject them sistematicly, are to use galtieri's actions, and tell partial truthes to the whole world, i already explained a lot about them. But what is lamentable, are not the omitions of the politicians, because they will always tell only the half of the history which is convenient for them, no matter if they are argentine or british, what is truly lamentable, is that planty of ignorants like you, buy those so partial analysis, anyway it's yor choice, and i'm glad that we are very difertent, i prefer to investigate, because i wont never buy nobody's omitions, nor nobody's mediocre analysis.
STICK UP YOUR JUNTA: You forgat to mention that for some of the terrible events that you mention in you comment, our state made and continues making diferent historic reparations, like recognizement of the preexistence of the indigenous people, and the protection of their lands who suffered the conquest of the dessert, and the trails for the criminals of the last dictatorship, study deeply the question, and dont tell only the half of the history which is convenient for you only to win a debate. Now my question is, when are you going to make a historic reparation for argentina, for having deprived us from the islands in 1833?, i know it wont never happen.
On the other hand, respecting the indigenous populations, there is a lot do yet.
According to some people the Brits are guilty of the ethnic cleansing of the celts,and have opinions on the territory of las Malvinas !!!!!
Feb 20th, 2012 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Conkerer thanks for your daily report.Worthless again as a contribution,cathartic for you no doubt.Keep it up
#214 It was a flat lie that Galloway profited from oil for food, one he disproved in the British courts and at the US Senate.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#221 Can you just stick to one canard at a time - is Cristina a tyrant or a bimbo, its really not credible to call her both. On the other hand for me it really is credible, and true, to see her as both a sweet beautiful woman and a strong fighter for justice =)
@ “British” Kirchnerist and think.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I still don't get why you lionise Galloway so much. The man praised Saddam Hussien and bent over backwards to fawn over him. That is of couyrse, unless you liked the way that Saddam dealt with his foreign policy problems - he did it by invading 2 neighbouring nations (Iran and Kuwait) directly causing 1 of the biggest wars in the 20th century (the iran -iraq war) and 2 further conflicts that resulted in his own country being invaded and bombed.
His regime committed acts of genocide against it's own minorities, the marsh arabs and the Kurds (who were targeted with poison gas).
He tried to make nuclear weapons in the 80s and dreamed of using them to wipe out israel, a NEUTRAL country he attacked in 1991 in order to try and distract the coalition.
He spent his countries fortune on palaces while his people got poorer and used an appaling secret police service to oppress and murder.
Anyone who praises such a person is a complete imbecile unworthy of holding any kind of office.
@ Axel arg - we are'nt going to negotiate anything with you.
Imagine yourself in our position.
You get attacked “out of the blue” by another country.
You have to expend considerable blood and treasure to kick out the invaders and liberate your people from military occupation.
A little while later the same country comes back to you and says “we don't want another fight, our invasion was a just cause even if we don't think we should have done it. We want you to just give us the islands we previously invaded for nothing in return and we will either make your people live under our rules doing as we say, or they can leave”
After your mouth had finished dropping at the pure arrogance and cheek - while imaging the rendering of your countries sacrifices futile and meaningless, you tell the offending country to “get stuffed”.
So you are right - we hold the war against you and will do so for a looooonnggg time.
Message received today via long-range radio:
Feb 20th, 2012 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'we arethe Popular Front For the Liberation of Staten Island, also known as Isla De Los Estados. We have declared unilateral independence from Argentina. Long live Staten Islanders.' Manuel Garcia PFLSI
#226 Kirchner is both a bimbo and a tyrant. That is possible, you know. She is a retarded, plastic doll used by her backers as a compliant figurehead for their own schemes. “Fighter for justice???” hahaha. Why don't you tell that to all those Argentine veterans who are protesting against her, or maybe the family of that trade secretary she had “removed”? I can see you've fallen victim to the “Kirchner campaign-approved education for the future Peronist youth”. This woman is a very twisted old witch who wishes to impose her own brand of Argentine corruption onto islanders who don't want anything to do with old plastic fantastic.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sean Penn is a sanctimonious blowhard.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He and many like him would never in a million years admit to the crimes of the left.
The favorite past time of the left is to routinely demonize all dissent and pathologize all opposition.
They've been so successful that they now have to manufacture their scapegoats, like Bush and Palin, etc. neither of whom could possibly represent the “right” because the real right of the US and UK have been purged from any position of power - a purging that was complete by the 1990s when WF Buckley fired half of his staff at the National Review.
For anyone who might care to know I am neither of the right or left, but that doesn't matter to the left, who lives in a depressingly polarized world where this is ONLY the two sides. So, if you are not for them, you are a “right-wing nutter”.
They are psychotics incapable of correction through feedback.
Their began to mobilize as a political unit around the time of the French Revolution and more so after Marx, but their roots go back to the Old Testament.
This is why they are still trying to subordinate science to politics, which is like a psycho-bully-moron trying to dominate a genius - out of fear of exposure.
This explains the hysterics of all lefties from Penn to CFK.
In short, who gives flying **** what either of them have to say?
In fact, at this point, one could look at Penn's comments as an indirect attempt to tilt public sympathy in favor of the Islanders. Since most Americans I know have had their fill of celebrity worship - a growing trend since 9-11.
But you know what the bottom line is?
The exchange of goods and services, ie; economic activity.
And that can't continue much longer in Argentina because the people are simply too corrupt and incompetent - and in possession of much needed resources.
As I have said here before, the country is gradually being sold to the highest bidder.
Pretty soon Argies won't even own the ground their houses are on.
what is Cristina & all argies & all the world thinking right now about the sayings of Mr. Summer: you can see it:
Feb 20th, 2012 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.perfil.com/fotogaleria/?filename=contenidos/2011/12/07/noticia_0013.html&fotoNro=99
@231 Gosh, I could go through those photos all night, they're hilarious. Especially the photo with the bald rich guy who reigns over those really poor folk who cannot afford food.
Feb 20th, 2012 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Seriously though, if Argentina attacks the Falklands again, it's going to be really funny to see them scurrying around trying to make things when they have no power stations. Remember the home of the dambusters... der der, der der der der der, der der, der der der der der der der... der der... der der der der der...... der der, der der der...der der! Good old Mr B. Wallis. (not william)
This just in:
Feb 20th, 2012 - 11:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Malvinas: Intellectuals to give and 'alternative view' on the conflict”
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1450256-malvinas-intelectuales-dan-una-vision-alternativa
#231: “All argies” Not even close. Speak for yourself mate. I'm Argie and think the irritating antics of CFA are no laughing matter.
(209) Monty96
Feb 20th, 2012 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That must surely be Roderick Maclean Boyd from Estancia Las Charas, Magallanes.
Nice Place…......................... No turnips ;-)
http://v7.cache6.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/10454437.jpg?redirect_counter=2
egarcia is an argie as mr.betts a falklander.... this alternative was used by Menem & DiTella.. don´t works, as Galtieri policy of war,,,, only works claim using international diplomacy...
Feb 20th, 2012 - 11:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Malvinas Islands belong to Argentina and it will be so for ever. All the world know that the Malvinas Islands have been stolen by UK using its military force, and this country uses this force to maintain this usurpation. In addition, you need to know that Argentina is a country who has the third biggest economy of Latin America after Brasil and Mexico. Therefore it is a big country in the Latin America region, It is a country which has a huge potenciality and it is important (for all the world) to maintain a good association with this country. In addition it is a country who has an economy growing up very fast in opposite of other countries of Europe for example UK.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 12:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0234 Think
Feb 21st, 2012 - 01:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have no idea. It's a long time ago. I just remember envying the tan and the team of gardeners. It's a different world.
I bet they have turnips now. I've never understood your prejudice against that fine vegetable.
62 Malviner01, in what way did we get our asses kicked? As I recall, more than twice as many Argies were killed in the war as Brits, not to mention the fact that we actually won the war, booting you off then islands after just two months of conflict despite having to fight the conflict from 8000 miles away!
Feb 21st, 2012 - 01:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who gives a damn about that! Only IDIOTS will spend 3 billion pounds,have 300 deads,and 1000 wounded(many burned badly),spend 1 billion pound to built an infraestructure for 2000 people( When It will be Far more just and useful in the uk,where they have cut public fund for education,health and infrestructure,uk was selling weapons to the “brutal junta” the day BEFORE THE RECUPERATION of MAlvinas,now is not selling weapons to Argentina,and Argentina will do everything possible NOT TO BUY from uk) Argentina does not give any special status to buy good or services from uk( it almost ban from getting bids,etc),ONly get back 40 million pounds( and declining revenues) from fish.Need Argentina for getting the infraestructure if there is any oil(not found yet).uk = STUPID to the cube!
BTW,the Chilean town of AYSEN,want to be adopted by Argentina
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1450266-pobladores-de-una-localidad-chilena-quieren-que-la-argentina-los-adopte
News from Uruguay:http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1450266-pobladores-de-una-localidad-chilena-quieren-que-la-argentina-los-adopte
#236 - WOW! THE WHOLE WORLD THINKS THE FALKLANDS BELONG TO ARGENTINA???!!!! NO WAY! Why aren't they voicing this view? Why are most countries including SPAIN on the fence? Why do Turkey and France both support the UK's claim, if they actually agree with Argentina? Why is it that the ONLY countries who support Argentina's claim are either paying lip service so as not to disrupt trade, (Brazil, Uruguay), trying to bring Argentina into the anti-West block (Venezuela, Cuba), or have colonialist ambitions of their own, (China wants support for their claim to Taiwan).
Feb 21st, 2012 - 01:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0It seems like the only people who truly believe they belong to Argentina are CFK, her political backers and the Argentinians who have been brainwashed by the Kirchner administration, just as they were by the Galtieri administration. Please give up this retarded cause. It's just embarrassing the country at this point. I mean, seriously you have Sean Penn down there... what the hell were you thinking letting his presence discredit your poorly backed up claim?
When is British phlegm a good thing and when is it a bad thing ie; self
Feb 21st, 2012 - 02:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0defeating complacency?
A case in point is the answer given by Philip Hammond, the current UK defence secretary to questions regarding the military posture regarding the Falklands defences.
While outlining the archipelagos defences and stating there is no 'credible threat' ,which in military terms is probably true ,he stated that
'this crew in Argentina is different from the crew in 1982 as it is now a democracy' and has eschewed military invasion.
This may be true in theory but the peronist Kirchner government shares 99.9% of its political DNA with the Galtieri regime. According to Britain Zimbabwe is a democracy ; as is Iran , Venezuela and various other susspect countries in Africa and the south.
Perhaps it is time to split the concept of democracy into ' democracy lite'
and 'democracy heavy' or even the concept of 'fascism lite' or 'fascism heavy' as the Americans did with the definition of their invasion of Iraq.
While understanding that Hammond's remit is an exclusively defence one it is good to see that at long last the British Government is doing some 'joined up thinking' about the Falklands and taking the blockade and all the other Argentine provocations seriously.
This is where British backbenchers play a vital role with their investigative committees ( a brilliant idea copied from America).
Whereas before backbenchers were treated as voting 'cannon fodder' they are now a vital part of the system designed to prevent the type of complacency which led to the Falklands War in the first place.
The more ordinary ' feet on the ground' politicians visit the Falklands the better. Maybe the Plastic Queen of Argentina could learn something about real democracy from these visits.
The Spanish press is not impressed by the regime in Buenos Aires and is starting to look critically at the goings on there.They recognise 'democracy lite' when they see it.
The more ordinary ' feet on the ground' politicians visit the Falklands the better. Maybe the Plastic Queen of Argentina could learn something about real democracy from these visits.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 02:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sure good for nothing stratopheric: Spain supports Argentina on Malvinas.The whole latinamerica,including commonwealth countries supports Argentina on MAlvinas.Even people in the conservative party in uk want a negotiated settlements....They will fall rip,in Argentina.Malvinas is a nuisannce for uk.They wanted to get rid a long time ago...IDIOTS brits!
The Spanish press is not impressed by the regime in Buenos Aires and is starting to look critically at the goings on there.They recognise 'democracy lite' when they see it
#241 - WRONG!!!! Spain no longer supports your claim. Please fact check before posting. Plus, didn't we hear just recently that Timerman had lied about support from Dominica and Antigua and Barbuda? Isn't that the case? And aren't you now BLOCKING access to your ports from Maltese ships?! Go home.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 02:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wrong stefan:Inesperado apoyo de España a Argentina
Feb 21st, 2012 - 03:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Por: AP/MADRID, ESPAÑA
La reciente escalada de tensión diplomática entre Argentina y el Reino Unido a cuenta de las Malvinas ha encontrado un inesperado eco en España, cuyo nuevo gobierno ha reabierto el debate sobre la soberanía de Gibraltar, también en manos británicas
http://www.elsiglodetorreon.com.mx/noticia/704527.html
Latest new.....uk is losing...even the politicians in uk are giving in....
Will the UK ask the Chilean government to respect self-determination too? Just curious
Feb 21st, 2012 - 03:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.losandes.com.ar/notas/2012/2/20/pueblo-chileno-pide-adoptado”-argentina-625278.asp
“Chilean town wants to be adopted by Argentina” ... And this is not the first time areas in the south of Chile have made this sort of statement. Maybe this is why Chile all of the sudden is so staunch behind Argentina, more so than even I would have thought (I still think Argentina's position is wrong anyway)
# 243 - WRONG - Official statement from the Spanish government.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 03:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.falklands.gov.fk/news/2010/04/spanish-government-will-not-support-argentine-claim/
Yes, they still want Gibraltar. This mess has reminded them of that forgotten news, but they DO NOT support Argentina's claim. Nowhere in the article can I see a statement from the Spanish government saying they support Argentina. This is because they are in the EU. Conflict of interest ;) Doesn't being Argentinian just suck!
P.S - Spain has EVEN less evidence for their claim, simply for the fact that they GAVE Gibraltar to Britain in 1713. It is documented.
@Malverino 01
Feb 21st, 2012 - 06:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0You were FINISHED in 1982 due to bravery, dedication to duty and trainining, not just how much we spent.
We have built up the infrastructure in the islands because we could afford it and the islands needed it. It's up to us how we spend our cash.
Only IDIOTS would start a war with another, stronger and richer, country if they are'nt prepared to accept the losses and spend the required money.
Only IDIOTS would then fail to realise why the target of their aggression would then not want to enter negotiations with you to just hand over the territory you tried to conquer.
Only IDIOTS would continue to wind up the people they want to negotiate with by implemeneting blockades and maintaining a threatening posture.
@246 shb,
Feb 21st, 2012 - 07:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0You summed it up in one word shb, IDIOTS.
Thats what they are.
@211Yuleno,
Don't you listen/read?
Monty69 has already told you.
The British are part Celtic. What percentage, l have no idea.
l would be guessing but l'd say about 50%
Last time I checked spain still had the enclave of melilla, and a few other islands off morocco over which they still held sovereignty.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 07:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0If they didn't support our position it would be very high on the pot-kettle-o-meter.
I'm sorry I just want to go off subject ever so slightly. I'm sorry if you are Argentinian and I know I'm going to take some flak for this. But i'm in a bad mood at work so I am going to deliver a low blow, and it is low however factual. That is why I like
Feb 21st, 2012 - 08:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0First things first, theis is an average take from a variety of websites, and there are averages so I know there will be a bit of give and take because this is hard subject to measure. Here goes.
The average person in the UK takes home between 1300-1500 pounds a month of is roughly 1,094 loafs of bread here in the UK.
The average person in Argentina earns roughly 700 dollars a month or equivalent to 450 pounds (roughly) and is equal to only 525 loafs of bread in Argentina.
Just wanted to point out how things really compare so the islanders can have a good look at how different the cost of living and expenses are between the two nations. Looking at that what would you want for you?
I'm sorry for the above I just wanted to throw it out there.
I have one other thing to say. The UK and Argentina have both done some dispicable things in the past. We could argue that all day. What should be asked is “who has rightful claim?” Well the only people who have rightful claim is the islanders. As far as I can see Argentina can put in a claim for the islands but has never actually had sovereignty in which case any country that has had people visit or has lived there can put in claim in that case. The US had administration for about month on the islanders. Which is much more than Argentina has had. Does that mean the United States has a legitamate claim for the Falklands. No I think not.
If you are Argentinian then please don't post a nasty comment in reply to what I have said. Lets keep things factual and in a debate styled manner. Our governments maybe giving each other a tongue lashing does not mean we have to. Lets take this chance to talk about this rationally and peacefully.
No doubt some Argentines can talk about this rationally & peacefully, but your rabid malvinista will not be able to.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 09:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0lnsults & nasty comments are a part of their psyche.
We are getting that way too, its natural resistance to being called thieves, pirats, implanted, etc etc.
l know that my attitude to Argentina has definitely hardened in this past year, because of them.
l despise their lies.
l don't want anything to do with them & would give overwhelming support to the idea of banning them altogether from the Falklands.
Isolde, I see what you mean. That is why I had a little dig at the beginning. I can listen to the Argies that talk a rational arguement and there are no insults back and forth. I might not agree with them but I would listen and take thier point of view onbaord and as valid opinion. I like to think I am open minded. I just don't like the “where better than yoi pirates” and like wise from some of my fellow englishmen and women who spout nasty things. This forum gives us a chance to speak about the subject with out stooping to these levels. Lets listen to each others opinions and discuss. You don't have to agree just listen. I think this is where our two governments could learn a lesson. Britain and Argentina do not have to agree but just listen and you never something good might come of it for all those invovled.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0For example, these new gas and oil fields. Argentina is having some sort of energy crisis at the moment ( I think please correctly me if I am wrong) yhrough peaceful negotiations work something out where they could get cheaper fuel, contribute to the exploration, even get involved with the treatment process together. I'm sure something could be worked out between CFK, Cameron and islanders and other nearby states where everyone can take away something positive. I know this is just a fairy land sort of dream. It could work. I think a couple of things need to happen though. I don't mean to aggitate the Argies but let it go. The UK is never going to let them go with out a struggle. Staying on the track your on will just isolate the islands further away from you. The UK has to realise that in the best interest for the region get some involvement of the south americas.
This is me done. Please discuss
@251 I agree with your sentiment somewhat. However, because of the closed door unaudited nature or the Argentine economy, it is hard to actually say whether the average Argentinian is actually getting 424 loaves of bread. Their economy is an economic basket case unaudited by the IMF, and like North Korea it's rampant inflation and lack of economic transparency mean that a lifetime of savings are destroyed in days an the only people to hedge against it are the political elite who have typically become rich whilst in office because of insider trading in the purchase of assets such as land. We all know the Kerchners wealth came soon after entering office and is mainly in land deals. So where is the justice in a society where the pensioners are stripped of their final pennies and the political elite offshore their monetary wealth. The answer is, there is no justice in Argentina, and Argentinians keep voting these people into power, just like North Korea 'apparently' votes their leaders into power.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0We cannot compare the two societies on wealth, nor can we compare then on justice, nor can we compare them on political sentiment. There is little in common between the Islanders and the Arentinians, I see no reason to force one to become the other.
The Argentinian gollumesque behaviour towards the oil fields is equally as bizarre, as they make no effort to prospect for oil in their own territories.
Finally, where do the Argentinians get off calling people colonists, when they have never in history owned the South Atlantic islands of South Georgia and South Sandwich islands. They only went there in 1982 to 'colonise' them which is apparently something they don't do.
All they know is envy, hypocrisy, economic ruin and injustice. Better we just isolate them peacefully and defend the islands robustly.
who have rightful claim is the islanders. As far as I can see Argentina can put in a claim for the islands but has never actually had sovereignty in which case any country that has had people visit or has lived there can put in claim in that case
Feb 21st, 2012 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0You do not even history rigth.Anyway uk spend the money not Argentina..if uk are stupid enough..BTW,clean up and modernice the london subway..they look awful...
@253 hahaha London jealousy again rears its ugly head.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0If the Islanders are sensible, they will invest in business and financial infrastructure in areas around Mt Pleasant. Then they can create a nice new financial centre for business in South America with lots of shiny banks and things.
Then you can turn your envy to there instead.
Malvinero1, I have never made a personal attack or critised anything you have written harshly. I could do very easily but I do not see how that is constructive. I think I have a very good grasp of history. I can not see in any history book where Argentina has had claim of the Falklands. You hay have had some people settle there in the past but it was not a Argentine territory. Though I am not just basing my entire opinion on this. I can see the point of view where Argentina do see the islands as rightfully theres. I don't believe that but I understand it. I also don't believe that Argentina want the islands just because of the oil as Argentina has disputed the Falklands for a long time. I think CFK should ask the islanders. Forget whom may have been on the islands, or claimed them. Ask the islanders who have been there generations and are the ones that have made the community on the islands what they want.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lets face it there a a couple of thousand people who live on those islands who we are bickering about. How do you think they would feel if someone told them they have no right to choose their own destiny?
As far as I'm concerned the “colonialist” thing is bull shit. Argentina was originally founded by the Spanish. Does that mean that those of true indeginoud desent in the region can ask all those from Spanish/European desent to leave? After all they colonised the area and took it from the natives. Saying that there were no indeginous people in the Falklands. The first 2 recorded people to walk the islands were English and French. But please like I said above this is my opinion and if you can prove me wrong I will lesten and take it on board and maybe re-adjust my opinion. So Malvinero1 don't take to me like that. I agree though I don't like London. I'm a Yorkshireman and things are little nicer. I suppose you could say that about anywhere ay Malvinero1?
So to that end Malvinero1 fuck off and don't judge the UK on one city. Thats is a little ignorant. Prick
to stefan 229 you say our president is retarded
Feb 21st, 2012 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0well Im going to be also nice about your prince........he came 14.000 km and in 20 days made a simulacro, a show....oh, he is so brave, he is a hero, an idol practicing rescue with the helicopter!!! jajajaj
@256 in contrast to what just oozed out of malen's spores, I think the people of the SaR services and Royal National Lifeboat Institution of the UK and her territories are very brave people, they risk their lives in order to save ours. It means those of us who like brisk outdoor activities like fishing, sailing or hill walking can do so safely under the knowledge someone is covering their back.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0With the expressed argentinian attitude to SaR I cannot fathom what those folks do for saving sinking ships, they probably just say 'they died in the name of the victory front party' and let them sink.
Savages.
You should be feeling safe now: your prince is highly risking his life to save yours when fishing or sailing....
Feb 21st, 2012 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is full of Jews. They love “ acquiring” real estate...sans monetary transfer, as is the norm.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0256 malen
Feb 21st, 2012 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Those of us who actually have to rely on this service hope and pray that it is never needed. Because when it is, it is one of us that has had a serious road accident or a heart attack; it's either me or someone I know.
I have been involved in practicing getting people out of crushed vehicles, and sometimes those practice sessions involve the yellow helicopter. And when you do it for real, that practice saves peoples lives.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I intend to carry on practicing as long as I'm nimble enough to do it. I hope Prince William does too- we need him. Simple as that.
I think you should stop; this one's going nowhere for you.
#256 - Not my prince, d-bag. ;)
Feb 21st, 2012 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Monty learn not to get angry with comments
Feb 21st, 2012 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Look at comment 229 and the way you talk. Im trying to be polite, instead and with humour.
Look from UK
www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4142513/No-Kate-so-Prince-William-is-chasing-birds-in-the-Falklands.html
Public persons know people can talk bad or well of them, they can be criticized or not for what they do. It isnt dramatic. Its part of their job too. It happens to everybody that chooses public jobs. Your prince doesnt have coronita in this.
You can continue debating and criticizing all you want. Me too.
@259 They're just acquiring real estate to get their money out of pesos. Better to have your money in something tangible rather than a fiat currency that devalues quicker than you can say 'gold standard'. The political elites in Argentina also prefer to buy property, hence they mainly have property empires, for exactly the same reason. Let's face it, Argentina doesn't really have anything else you can invest in.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0California was given to US by Mexico by a treaty, as Hong Kong back to China , DIego Garcia Is. a scandal ,.... but in HK , UK has asked to their people about self-determination???? no... that is hypocrisy when try to impose the self-det in our Malvinas, where don´t apply and all the World dont support.......
Feb 21st, 2012 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0262 malen
Feb 21st, 2012 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not angry. I'm just sorry for you. You sound like a sick and twisted individual. Criticising someone for having a job that involve saving lives is contemptible.
What I actually think is that you're having trouble understanding why a public figure and the heir to a great fortune would choose a life of public service. And what you don't understand you mock. Pitiful.
@253 hahaha London jealousy again rears its ugly head.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the Islanders are sensible, they will invest in business and financial infrastructure in areas around Mt Pleasant. Then they can create a nice new financial centre for business in South America with lots of shiny banks and things.
AHAHAHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
What idiots are this decadents brits....My God..I am so glad I do not live in that prison,uk.....
@266 Yes, such decadent stable non-nationalistic democratic prosperity, and to make it worse we're just waving it in your face all the time.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still waiting for Malvinero1 to say some thing intelligent and insightfull. I could be hear a while then. I hope he does not represent true Argentinians. I know there would be difficult arguments in here but I expected better. Hopefully there is better than a slightly retarded argie who is annoying. Spouting things that don't even make sense or would never happen. I'm slowly turning agressive towards argie because of the likes of him. Is there any argies that have anything useful or relevant or in remotely factual. I don't mean that in a nasty way but please come out of the wood work because as long as I see the writings of the likes of Malvinero1 you have no chance of been taken seriously on the world stage.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0SHB. MONTY69. GREEK YOGHURT.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I will always understand the desperation that the islanders felt during the 76 days of the conflict of 1982, because it's the same desperation that planty of our compatriots felt during 7 years and a half, but in 2012 if your side continues using the argument of the war, it's just a very low and pathetic posture. The argentina of 2012 is not the same than the argentina of the dictatorship, i know that you are going to argue about the support that our people gave in the streets when galtieri anounced that we had recovered the islands, but what you all always ignore, is that during the dictatorship, the few chanels that we had were in the hands of the junta, there was not any freedom of press, and the propagandistic statal organization made believed the people that we were wining, and published lies all the time, beside even dictator galtieri said in his statement on april 2 1982 that we had recovered the islands with out any rencour, which was absolutly false, so, you, you all should study deeply the question, and not to but so easily the partial analysis of the politicians. On the other hand, it's false the fact that we ask the u. k. to transfer the sovereignty to argentina, even c. f. k. said in diferent oportunities that we are just asking the u. k. to dialague and find a fair solution, you can't deny that main conflict is the sovereignty, and it must be discussed, but it doesn't mean that the islanders will have to accept only our sovereignty, that kind of mediocre and hipocrite comments can be made only by summers and the islanders legislators, but the worse of this situation, aren't their omitions or lies, the worse is that planty of ignorants buy them, it's really lamentable, but this is evident that it's the truth.
MONTY69: In answer to your comment 222, i only can tell you that it's just an opinion respecting summers's hipocrite analysis, no more.
GREEK: You didnt answer my comment 224.
Axel arg, so far you are the only Argentinian on here that does not ramble crap. I don't really agree with everything you say but I can see where you are coming from. Unlike malvineo1 I can't see any insults or daft comments. However I do have one question. There used to be diallague but the seems a while ago Argentina stopped that. Why? and if that was the case why should Britain start it again? and can Britain discuss things with Argentina about the Falklands that is not about sovereignty. Because you must understand from Britains point after fighting a war and investing a lot of money on the islands that they would never be handed over.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Monty
Feb 21st, 2012 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0everybodies know your prince came here not to save lives as a rescue helicopter, he could have done that near his casttle if he wanted ..........at least I agree with the sun he will spend bored vacations and came to make provocation in the 30 anniversary
I dont buy your humanitarian propaganda..........think what you want of everything
@269 You claim that you're seeing both sides, however, the use of 'fair solution' from F.cK's odious spores is completely unveiled by your constitutional demands to have the islands as a part of your territory regardless of anything. That includes the south atlantic islands which you only ever stepped foot on in 1982 before being ejected.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nixon said “The lesson of all history warns us that we should negotiate only when our military superiority is so convincing that we can achieve our objective at the conference table, and deny the aggressor theirs.” Our objective is to keep the Falklands free, and not trodden under your neo-peronist jack-boots.
In addition, Henry Wheeler Shaw said (using his pen name), “There are two kinds of fools: those who can't change their opinions and those who won't.” Which pretty much sums up the Argentinian negotiating position. He did then go on to say that life would be pretty boring without fools in it though.... and he said 'However big the fool, there is always a bigger fool to follow him' which is a bit like Kerchnerites.
271 malen (#)
Feb 21st, 2012 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Malen stop your crying, you are like a stuck record going on and on with the same old shite its become very boring and nobody is listening to you anymore, your propaganda machine has blown a gaskit and there is much egg on the face of the botox queen who has now resorted to getting Hollywood gob shite Mr Penn to play her old scratched record too. You are a laughing stock, the whole bloody lot of you.
#227 Galloway never supported Saddam, as I said on here before he was one of the very few critics of Saddam in Britian when he was the west's ally in the 80s, attacking him, as you do, correctly, for his war of agression against Iran (welcomed and incited by the USA) and massacres of the Kurds (with gas sold by us). Sometimes in international politics you have to deal with distateful people for the greater good, as George did later with Saddam when campaigning against sanctions and war; sometimes though there comes along a leader you can support wholeheartedly, like the beautiful princess of peace progress and prosperity, the radiant Cristina =)
Feb 21st, 2012 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway talking of Galloway, here's his latest column on the issue, so flowing, erudite and moving it reminds me of Cristina's own speeches: http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/georgegalloway/2012/02/it-would-be-mad-to-make-enemy-of-latin-america.html#more
“beautiful princess of peace progress and prosperity”
Feb 21st, 2012 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Beautiful - subjective
Princess - Actually Dear Leader of the Politburo
Peace - subjective
Progress - subjective
Prosperity - subjective
Basically as argentinian pensioners starve and cannot heat their houses because of inflation, you hold firm to your soviet credentials.
(237) Monty96
Feb 21st, 2012 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say:
” I just remember envying the tan and the team of gardeners. It's a different world.”
I say:
It that’s your criteria for a ”Different World”……......................
Then I can imagine that replacing your morning toast’s Seville Orange Marmalade with a sweeter variety would surely feel like a “Parallel Universe” to you………
I know, we pride ourselves of being “Simple people” in Patagonia......
But there is no need to be sooooooo provincial, dearl lass........
@276 Simple people that are capable of genocide, and a strict adherence to the ideology of dear uncle benito, sorry, peron.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0GREEK YOGHURT. BOMBARDIER SPOOM.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The phrases that you used in your comment 272 are very interesting, because they help me to know about your intelectual level, specialy when you understimate the kirchnerists. I wouden't say that you are a fool just because you dont think like me, your not stupid, actualy nobody is stupid, you are just missinformed, and unfortunately buy the so partial analysis of your politicians.
Respecting our claim, everybody can make any kind of speculations, but the reality is what finally destroys all the partial truthes and the lies that are told in the press by the politicians. I already told you what even cristina said in diferent forums regarding what our country asks the u. k., but if you prefer to believe whatever you want, that's your problem, opinions are free.
BOMBARDIER: I have no so much more to add, anyway i value the fact that you dont inult and dont use any of the stupid ironies that are published by some forists.
I only can tell you that beyond the war, if the u. n continues calling the two sides to resume the negotiations, it must be respected, beside, the u. n never said that the u. k. should transfer the sovereignty to argentina, all it does, is to call the two parts to find a peaceful solution, there were talks in the past, but the discovery of a huge reserve of oil, in the end of the 70's, and the war, stopped all the discutions respecting the sovereignty of the islands.
l think that malen has got the “hots” for Prince William.
Feb 21st, 2012 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just like British_Kirchnerist has for la Princesa!
Ah, love is in the air♥
They both want to marry into Royalty!
@278 we all know what F.Ck said, which was “We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious. They stole it from us. Sneaky little hobbitses. Wicked, tricksy, false!”
Feb 21st, 2012 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0then she said “Master won't us have the precious, will they my precious, but I will getsss it, we needsss it”
We know, we know.
I AM GETTINGWELL EDEUCATED WITH ALL THESE COMMENTS SOME GREAT AND UNKNOWN HISTORY IS BEING EXPOSE THATS IS GOOD FOR ALL.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 01:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0@British_Kirchnerist
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 07:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Get your facts straight, the gas that saddam used on the Kurds was made using equipment supplied by IGN Faban, the same people who gave us the “final solution”........ A German Company.
If Galloway was so crticical he should never have made his fatuous comments, if he can make such a critical error in judgement he can't be trusted to amnything else properly in office - see big brother for further details. The man is an idiot.
@Malverino 01. “well said insectosaurus..........”(film quote).
@malem - You may not like Prince William, but he is doing a valuable job and may end up saving some of your countrymen. The fuss in Argentina about him was ridiculous, we can send anyone we like to serve in British territory and I am glad it wound up the Malvinista crowd.
@Axel arg. I am not affected by politicla propopganda on the islands, as our govt does'nt tend to bang on about it all the while. My opinion was formed in 1982 seeing photos of smirking Argentine soldiers humiliating the RM garrison and hauling up your flag. The photo of the grinning Argentine soldier next to to FI schoolchildren also made an impact, so did the scenes of mass jubilation in Argentina.
Images of burning warships, battle weary British soldiers and the flash burned wounded at bluff cove hardened also made a big impression.
I formed an intense hatred of your country and its cause.
If your country had dropped its claims and made moves to normalise relations I would have just moved on and put it in the past, and forgiven you.
All you are trying to do is take the islands from us by other means, against the wishes of the falklanders who are British people.
Argentina is like the leopard in the fable: It may have lost its spots but it is still a leopard (translation it may not be a dictatorship but it is still pursuing the Juntas war aims, conquest and subjugation of British people in British territory).
@282 by your definition, it's still got it's spots, it just painted over them (quasi-dictatorship).
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 08:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Does Argentina even have a prime minister or a chancellor as we never seem to hear from them.
Monty69
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0You have descended in my estimation.You say that you have Irish and Celtic blood of some percentage and you post like a true Brit.You betray the lives of your people for your own selfish reasons.Some Irish historian have claimed that the Brits are guilty of genocide in Ireland in the past(7 generations ago?),and you eulogises a direct descendant of the perpertrators of that action.I am not adamant that it was genocide but i am certain that the Brits were and are culpable in the famine and it consequence.
Wouldn't it be good if this event was looked at in British history and some admission was made.But of course while there are selfish money-oriented people like yourself,they don't need to do anything of the sort.However you are now compromised as you have chosen to make your home in disputed territory and,other than being compliant to the British,you cannot justify your occupation in that territory,just as the Brits cannot justify the occupation of northern Ireland,or the Israelis,the occupation of the Sinai.
I can understand your situation but I'm not Irish.
Now I see you as unprincipled and,of course I could be wrong,but if I'm not,then all I can see is that your interest is solely economic.
@284Yuleno,
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0lsrael does not occupy the Sinai,
Egypt does.
The rest of your rant is.........well, rant.
ldiota. you are not smart enough to be lrish.
@282shb,
l agree, every day l dislike them more.
Despicable people. Natural born liars.
Islanders don't want to be Argentinian.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0What exactly is their to talk about.
grow up put your own house in order and you might persuade the islanders to e more interested.
Isolde.your not an ally monty69 would welcome.There's content to her posts.Yours are empty,you never say anything.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0GREEK YOGHURT. SHB.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0GREEK: I can't believe how mediocre you are, this is evident that it's a waste of time to debate with you, you will alwas understand just what you want, and you'll continue buying the so partial information which coincides with your thoughts.
SHB: I already said what i think about the events of the war, and the using of that argument, to reject the negotiations, i wont repeat them again, it's not my intention to change your mind or anyone else's, i just want you all to know about the usuall and serious omitions that the politicians do. On the other hand, you make a very wrong interpretation of the right to self determination, it's true that it's included in the charter of the u. n, but it's also true that nor resolution 1514, nor the charter of the u. n dont let any colonial situation to break the territorial integrity of any country, in fact, read resolution 2353 of 1967, that reffers the gibraltar situation, and you'll know what's the thought of the charter of the u. n respecting the relevancy of territorial integrity. However most you parrot all the time the so partial analysis that your politicians do often, and that will always be lamentable. Beside none resolution from the u. n invoked the right to self determination for this cause, like it did with others colonial situations, may be the only one way to finish with this dispute, is to take the question to the i. c. j, but if none of the parts propose it, per haps it's because both aren't sure that they can win the case, and that's something that we must recognize, we must be more inteligent and not to buy so easily the omitions of the politicians from both sides, no matter if they say what we like to heard.
Thats nice for you Yuleno. lts “you're not your”
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How do you know or not if Monty69 & me aren't the same person?
l do say something, l say that you are estupido. And l say that:-
There will be NO NEGOTIATIONS on SOVEREIGNTY♥
Good afternoon, my deluded malvinista.
@289 I'm not convinced anyone knows how to negotiate with an Argfag, that lawyer guy pretended to know, but turned out he didn't have a clue. It turns out that it's a bit like negotiating with North Korea, you don't... then they have to do some kind of dignified begging because all the people in their country are eating their own clothes. Then out of pity you give them something to eat.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are obliviously not the same person.You are not even an islander.You are a fake maybe,but that does not mean you are monty69.Arent you of German extraction or something.You might be connected to Greek yoghurt,as he is Briton in reality.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for negotiation
Both sides state there position
Therein lies a conflict and the demands of both sides cannot be realised
The two sides meet
They investigate what each can get from the other ie what concessions they offer each other
Perhaps they can agree to a resolution by agreeing on the concessions
Maybe they can't agree and there is no resolution
Returning to the stupid quote by Nixon.
No negotiations would ensue as the other party would have to agree as there would be threats of force from the imperialist USA.And we all know what happened to Nixon
Negotiations will always highlight strengthens and weaknesses,and in the case of the Malvinas,we can see that the Brits are in a weak position should they agree to negotiate,if the support of the islanders was lost.And that is what is significant in their posture.They know they have no justification for their occupation of the Malvinas.
@291 I think your summary is incorrect, you're describing the mechanics of a 'normal negotiation' process. With regards to this process, which is an 'Argentinian Negotiation' there is no position or negotiation because Argentina has fixed demands and nothing to give or negotiate, there can be no concessions on the Argentinian side, and they bring nothing to the table. Calling it a negotiation is a misnomer. At best it would just be a presentation of current positions. Which is a complete waste of time.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Step 1: Argentina states that because of it's constitution it demands sovereignty over the Falklands.
Step 2: Argentina states that it has nothing to bring to the table or concessions.
*process fails*
So, really, an 'Argentinian Negotiation' is not even a negotiation, it's just a time wasting exercise.
@yuleno -get your facts straight we don't occupy Northern ireland any more than you occupy patagonia.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As to reconcillation with Eire - I think you'll find that The Queen has been there and so have many of our politicians in order to get relations as normal as possible, including talking about things we did wrong.
In any case actions speak louder than words, during ww2 Eire was fed and fuelled by shipping escorted by the RN, and as well as subidisng their economy via the EU we gave them a multi billion pound bailout which I doubt we shall see returned..... Hardly the acts of an oppressor, it's 2012, not 1912.
Axel, I get your sincerity, but you on the other hand have to get ours. We just don't want to talk with you and fail to see why we should.
Your countries' actions in recent times just make us less likely to want to play ball with you. It would be bowing to aggression and pressure and rewarding both.
Your country does not want any kind of meanigful negotiation. It just wants us to roll over and dance to its' tune. It wants nothing less than total surrender.
You can say whatever you like about self determination not applying to the Islanders (I bet the tune would be different if it was your home under threat) but it will not wash over here.
How do you think our people would feel if we gave in? It would be a national disgrace of the worst kind and the betrayal of all those who fell in the war. It would also be a betrayal of the Falklanders to live under a foreign heel of occupation or to face ethnic cleansing by being forced out directly or by making their lives miserable or untenable by alienation.
SHB.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I really can't believe what you' re saying, what kind of nation do you think we are?, we have good and negative aspects like all the countries?, what you think is really crazy. Firstly, none resolution asks the u. k to transfer the sovereignty to argentina, all the resolutions only called the two parts of the conflict to resume the negotiations and find a peaceful solution, so, if you prefer to remain british, it will continue like that, even c. f. k said in diferent forums that argentina is not asking the u. k. to recognize that the island are argentine, we are just asking them to dialague with us, and find a peaceful solution, she also signalized that none islandes will have to renounce to his british nationality, it's not imposible to find a solution that satisfies all the parts. On the other hand, victimization is pathetic, you only blame our side for the hard decitions that our government took, and dont make any critic for your own behaviour, it's your side, and the british those who reject sistematicly the resolutions in order to resume the negotiations, you can't ignore that you are not acting correctly neather. You can buy what you prefer from your politicians, but you should heard also the arguments of the other side, now what's your thought after you know what i told you?, what's going to be the excuse that your are going to give to keep on rejecting the negotiations?. Finally, let me remind you that my country has been under real threat, we know perfectly what it is, what you call threat, is really a joke, per haps in the deepest of your conscience not even you believe it. During the last dictatorship, we could not tall about politic we had no freedom of press, we coudn't protest for anything, etc etc, or we were going to be killed, that's living under threat, not your situation.
Shb
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You occupy northern Ireland,as you do Scotland & Wales.
You are so ashamed of it,that you wish to deny it.The monarchy is still the head of state,and that's who allegiance is pledged to.You want to wriggle out of the fact,and perhaps say they have self-determination or something.
Don't be a pratt all your life Yuleno. Why don't you try keeping up with current affairs before making stupid statements.
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0The scotts are going to have a referndum in 2014 about independence for a start, if they were under “occupation” it would'nt be happening would it...
All of the countries in the UK (apart from England) have national assemblies - so have a greater measure of self determination than England does. If they had majority parties that wanted independence they too would organise referenda(and may well do so in the future).
That's your argument down the pan....
@Axel arg. Crazy.....
Lets talk about crazy.
Crazy is when you invade a peaceful set of islands out of the blue when you could probably have acquired them peacefully in a few years.
Crazy is when you kill 250 British servicemen in a futile war of aggression.
Crazy is when your ambassador to the UN makes himself look like an incompetent buffoon while tring to make out a claim that the Falklands are some sort of James Bond style super base.
Crazy is when you try numerous economic sanctions and buly boy tactics against the targets of your failed invasion and then utterly fail to understand why they don't like you and don't want to give in to you.
Is that a good enough set of examples for what is really crazy?
You're the sort of people who invade, kill, oppress, bully, blockade, insult and enforce sanctions against a relatively small community that is trying to get on with its life and which bears no threat to you, over a trumped up claim dating back almost 200 years.
This situation is beyond a joke, it shows that your country has a pathological disorder of some kind regrading the islands and a total disregard for the people living there.
@296shb,
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Summed up very nicely shb.
But talking to Axel is a waste of time.
He talks about “negotiations” but can offer nothing in return.
He seems to think that we have to make concessions(why?)but Argentina does not.
l suppose we should be grateful for the scraps from their table!
@291Yuleno,
You are correct for the first & only time, Yuleno.
Monty69 & l are not the same person.
The rest of your observations are pure speculation.
@295Yuleno,
Scotland, Wales & Northern lreland can leave the UK, whenever they want to.
l, personaly, would be sorry to see the breakup of the UK, but that is a matter for Scotland, Wales & Northern lreland & no-one would try to stop them.
So there is more rubbish that you spout.
Do you malvinistas actually know the meaning of the word “Truth”.?
Do your mothers teach you to lie when you are babies?
Or does it just come naturally to you?
Whatever it is, you're very good at it.
Oh I don't know, Argentina is quite a nice place, I spent 6 months there last weekend
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Briton&shb
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 01/independence
2/self-determination
3/national assemblies
4/referenda
5/Public sector workers in England,Wales &northern Ireland pay freeze for a third year
6/lies and deceptions as usual.
Argentina
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 01/ODESSA nazi land
2/German-led Dictatorship
3/Ethnic Cleansing
4/North-Korean levels of Nationalisim
5/Widespread poverty
6/Warmongering and Expansionism
One says we are “full” of Jews. The other says we are Nazis.
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am a Jewish Argentine, my great-grandparents came here escaping from the russian czar, although there are antisemites, most aren't and they found their home, as did Spanish, Italian, German, British, French, Arab, and recently we have immigration from Russia, China, Taiwan, Korea, Africa and neighboring countries. Now many Europeans come here to live permanently or temporarily, to study or work. We have people of all races in Argentina, and we live together in peace, without ghettos or discrimination, rarely someone could be attacked because of their race or origin as it happens in Europe. I know we are far from perfect but there is much ignorance in some opinions about us.
Back at you Yulen0
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Briton&shb
1/independence - yes the scots may go that way, so you're still talking crap, amenawhile you wnat to try and crush the independence of the Falklanders.
2/self-determination See above comment - you want to deny it to the falklanders because then you can have your grubby little land grab
3/national assemblies - try looking them up they have real power, or are you so deluded that you think we made them up? Besides MYOBB (Mind Your Own Bloody Business) what goes on in the UK is our concern - you don't pay tax here so don't get a vote. Reverse is true for myself and Argentina.
4/referenda - try looking this up to, idiot, I also suggest the “news”.
5/Public sector workers in England,Wales &northern Ireland pay freeze for a third year -What?.....Where did this come come? What relevance does it have? Anyway you can't complain aboout it as you don't live here. I can moan about it because it affects my wages. I would rather pay an extra few % of my wages to build up the armed forces anyway so that we could clean your watches again if you try another war (DON'T SAY YOU WON'T WE DON'T TRUST YOU YOU HAVE DESTROYED ANY IDEA OF FAITH IN YOUR GOOD INTENTIONS). At least the UK does'nt have your level of poverty, slums and shanty towns.....
6/lies and deceptions as usual - do you mean like the stupid lies about HMS Vanguard? Or the utter retarded drivel that timmerman spouted at the UN?
I don't need to lie, neither does my country. We don't have anything to prove to you............................
@301 I think most people understand that because of ODESSA and the ratlines from 1946 onwards, that Argentina although not Nazis now, are mainly the governed by the children of Nazis who are spending their parents gold filling collection and stolen paintings. These people still follow curious Mein-kampf style ideologies like Peronism.
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Racism isn't as rife as you suggest in Europe, it's more common in places like Israel where they kick you off your family land for simply being an arab, shoot your brothers while they watch tv and then build a big walled housing estate. If you try to return people with long side-burns shoot at you and cut off water to your refugee camp.
So, on the whole I feel generally safer in Europe, thanks for asking.
295 Yuleno
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You write in English but you don't make any sense. Unless you were trying for Irony there.
Could this be the previously undiscovered Argentinian sense of humour?
If it is I suggest you look no further than your own country, there is plenty of humour to be found there, your government is a joke and your Foreign policy is laughable.
Now go away and come back when you have something sensible to say.
Oh and P.S:- You can't have the Falkland Islands. As long as there are British people there who want to remain Britsh then we will fight tooth and nail to keep them.
Lots of love
The U.K
302&304
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A big waste of words.Colonial orders are no longer acceptable.Its just a bad habit you have.
SHB.
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When you talk about patological disorder, per haps you are describing your self a little. I can't believe that after i explained you the true posture of my country, you insist with all those crazy arguments.
Anyway a few points must be discussed, when you talk about the invation, and the war, you should remind that it was a despisable dictatorship the one that invaded you and subdued you, beside it also killed 30000 of our people who fought for a better and democratic nation, you can agree or not with the methods of the activists who fought against the dictatorship, but nobody deserved to finish like that, everybody has right to a fear trial. On the other hand, using the argument of the war, is may be the cheepest one that you can use, i already told you that i will always understand the desperation that your people felt, because it's actually the same desperation that planty of our compatriots felt during 7 years and a half. But we are not under a dictatorship anymore since 28 years, so, you can't insist on rejecting the negotiations, i already explained you what's the real posture of my country, but if you prefer to believe what you want, that's your choice but it's lamentable.
On the othe hand, it would be very interesting to discuss which part is actualy the weak one in this situation, beyond the fact that we are 40 millions of people, and you are 3000, but th epoint is that if in 28 years we could not achieve that you and the u. k. respect the resolutions and find a peaceful solution with us, like the u. n and most international comunity signalize, i think it's clear which part is actualy the weak. I will always respect your national proud, i also have mine, but this is not a matter of nationalisem, or cheap chauvinism, it's a matter of justice, as long as you dont understand that you are not acting correctly neather, and insist on victimizing your side only, then it really doesn't worth so much to debate.
@303
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm glad you feel safe in Europe. I felt safe there myself, my point is that there is no place for nazi ideology now in Argentina. Thinking it over, there may be some racists, as there are in Europe, or the US. I dislike any kind of discrimination, but it's there. That doesn't mean there's a fascist “serpent's egg” or anything. I think the hate for the different is out of fear, and in a crisis, people are more fearful. It's mediocre to be sheltered in some belief like you're better because you're white, or because you're Italian (for example). I don't think I'm any better for belonging to this or that group, I try to be better, when I can, for my own actions.
Regarding the Arab-Jewish conflict, I don't think it's about race, rather territory and interests, and I hope that can be sorted out.
It would be better to discuss ideas instead of personally attacking.
@307 I'm so happy you feel safe in a country that imported huge numbers of nazis after the war with gold, paintings and shoes that they stole from the jewish people that they slaughtered. I'm glad you like to live in a place that systematically executed all of its indigenous population, just like the same nazis tried to do to you. I'm happy that you support a peronist government, where peron himself looked up to mussolini and hitler. I'm so glad you choose not to know anything about the arab-israeli conflict including the continuous theft of land and denigration of the original land-owners.
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm so glad you live in a country that doesn't recognise the same self-determination that argentina and israel enjoyed, and a wish to impress your sovereignty, beliefs, values and culture onto those people.
I'm so glad you argentinian jews like all the above. It makes me understand Timerman so much more when he repeatedly presents the nauseating beliefs of his Nationalistic Socialist (Nazi) government to the world.
@ yuleno - your country as a whole is wasting words.
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ axel arg
re read how “crazy” Argentina's position appears from our standpoint.
We can and will reject negotiations.
Are you going to negotiate to give back all the territory you seized from Paraguay in the war of the triple allaince?
We will never let you get your hands on the islanders again and fly a flag of occupation over their homes.
All you offer us in negotiations is loss - in territory, resources and national status FOR NO GAIN. hardly a good starting point for talks.
Too allow you a say in the running of the Falklands would be like allowing Germany to have joint soveriegnty of the channel islands then running up a swastika flag alongside the union flag. That would go down well with the locals would'nt it.
Thats how I would see your flag being raised- a hated symbol of war and occupation flaunted over my home, if I was a Falklander.
No surrender or sell out of British people to our enemies. No negotiation.
SHB. GREEK YOGHURT.
Feb 24th, 2012 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your comparisons can't be more ignorant really, you can't compare the territory that we won with the shamefull war of the tripple alliance, with the claim for the islands. After the war of the tripple alliance, paraguay never claimed anymore for that territory, and it recognized the argentine sovereignty over those places. Anyway i will always insist that arg. uruguay and brazil should apologize paraguay for that terrible war. But it's very diferent the case of the islands, because argentina never recognized the british sovereignty over that archipelago, you stole the malvinas to us in 1833, and our country did all it could since 1833 to try to recover the islands, the only one terrible act that it did, was the invation and the war of 1982. On the other hand, it's not only argentina the one that asks the u. k. to resume the negotiations, it's also the u. n. and most international comunity, nobody is asking you to renounce to the sovereignty over the islands, that's actualy a mendacious assertion that is used by the u. k. and the general assembly from the islands, in order to lie the whole world and make it believe that they are victim, all that the u. n, most international comunity, and argentina are asking you, is to find a peaceful and fair solution, no more.
GREEK: It's amazing how ignorant and hipocrite you are, you just use partial truthes in order to express mediocre critics for argentina. I dont deny that peron had relations with nazis, and i repudiate it, but if you consider our government as nazi, that shows that you have no idea about what you are saying, on the other hand, i already told you that our state made diferent historic reparations for the indigenous people who were despoiled from the lands, however your country never made, nor wont never do any historic reparation for argentina for having deprived us from the islands in 1833, beside, if you revise your past, you'll realise that you are not much better than us, HIPOCRITE.
@310 So you colonised parts of Paraguay after killing most paraguayans as the 'trophy of a war'? Nice that your Dear Leader Kercho said that no place should be the trophy of war, certainly not 'Las Malvinas' but it seems it's okay for Argentina to do it. You say you're not colonist, but you claim rights to islands that you've never been to, South Orkneys, South Georgia, South Sandwhich islands.... There isn't a truth that comes out of Argfag's mouths.
Feb 24th, 2012 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“the only one terrible act that it did, was the invation and the war of 1982”. Hugely selective memory! You don't even talk about the terrorism through the 'Condors' who hijacked a plane. Or the other 8 times you invaded the islands.
Your selective memory is absolute, and you are projecting the term hypocrite onto other people simply because you yourself are so deep in hypocrisy that it's the only thing you can see. Well, keep saying it... i's not going to chage anything.
GREEK YOGHURT.
Feb 24th, 2012 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Selective memory?, what about your selective memory, you only mix diferent questions, and make so partial analysis.
Respecting the war of tripple alliance, i already said what i think about it, in my answer to shb, and i explained also why it can't be compared with our claim for the islands, reed it again in 310.
Regarding the terrorism of state of the last dictatorship, may be you didn't know yet that our justice is judging all the criminals who killed more than 30000 of us, this is a true historic reparation, i suggest you to study deeply the question, and avoid the mediocre and ignorant comments that you often do. In fact yesterday, genocide videla was asked by the justice, because of the condor plan, he is accused for it, and he's in prison, like others more than 200 criminals.
Regarding the dependencies of the islands, it's true that we have never been there, i only know that they are claimed because they are dependencies of the archipelago, per haps if the case is taken to the i. c. j. it would determine if it really belongs to us or not, however you know what i think about the lack of proposals respecting to take the case to the court, by both nations. Now my question is, dont you think that the u. k. should make any historic reparation for argentina, for having deprived us from the islands in 1833?, like the reparations that our state made for the indigenous people who were killed by the state, or like the reparations for the people who were victim of the terrorism of state during the last dictatorship, anyway there is a lot to do for all those people yet, because some indigenous populations are still victim of abuses by powerful masters who speel them, and there are also a lot of criminals who must be judged yet. You have right to accept or understand whatever you want, that really wont change anything.
@axel arg
Feb 24th, 2012 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are the aggressors in this case, the falklanders are the victims of your aggression. You may not like being tarred with that brush, but it is true.
Who is implementing blockades, deliberately trying to fish out squid stocks to deprive the FI of income, issuing statements stating their desire to “reclaim” the islands, gathering allies to help isolate the islanders........you are.
I notice you did'nt answer the question about Paraguay. You stated that you thought it was shameful - but you never said if you would hand the land back over.
Stating “thats a different case, the falklanders should'nt be allowed to resist us” does'nt wash over here and simply dodges the issue.
We were the sovereign power of the Falklands when you tried to annex them in the 1830s. We objected to the activities of your colony. We did'nt recognise your claim, so we evicted your garrison and hauled down your flag.
We were there 1st and your govt new it. You were being “chancers”, seeing if you get away with theft while the owning power was'nt paying close enough attention.
When the RN showed up to enforce British soeveriegnty, you should'nt have been surprised.
Why don't you try to occupy part of Novaya Zemlya with a colony then claim the islands, and see what happens............
SHB.
Feb 24th, 2012 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your comments shows once and again that you understand just what you want. I was very clear when i said that the territories that we won with the shameful war of the triple alliance can't be compared with our claim for the islands. After the war, paraguay never claimed anymore for those territories, so, there is nothing to discuss about it, anyway i will always insist that the three nations should apologize paraguay for that cobard and shameful war, if you prefer to make any other of your idiot interpretations, that's your problem, but i was clear enough respecting what i think about that war.
On the other hand, you are still very missinformed respecting the rights of both countries over the islands in 1833, i can suggest you AGAIN to read my work, where i explain the rights of both in that year, but if you prefer to believe only your own partial history, i respect it, but it's mediocre.
Regarding the hard decitions that our government took, like i told you in another comment, as long as you dont recognize that you are not acting correctly neather, then it doesn't worth so much to debate, you only complain for the hard decitions of the government, and at the same time, you reject sistematicly the resolutions that call the two parts of the conflict to resume the negotiations since 1982, what did you expect, flowers?, you must realise some day that as long as you insist on rejecting the negotiations, we will keep on having problems in the future, i already explained very well the true posture of my country, but like i said before, you have right to understand what you want, as usuall, continue making idiot comparisons, and believing only the partial truthes of your politicians.
@314 FYI. You rejected negotiations in 2003. Nestor ripped all the agreements up.
Feb 24th, 2012 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Shb
Feb 24th, 2012 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your difficulty is you like to pick facts from history,any history,and apply them to your story.What needs to happen is that you remain in the present and understand that changes have occurred.Today the claimed intentions of the british in their global adventure,educating other people in British ways(while UN gentlemanly robbing them(which was most important is a debatable point)),is not seen as a good thing.Today it is seen as bad.
That country has created more,and bigger,conflicts between people than it has educated.Being a Christian does not make the person better,but the British enforced their religion,and today they have much to say about another people enforcing their religion.
Now if you will be consistent,reject or support clearly your view on the British colonial past,it might be possible to begin to understand where your ramblings are real opinions,or defensive patriotic reactions.I'm of the belief that clarity on this can only lead to better understanding and thereby make rude and aggressive inessential remark unnecessary
Axel & Yuleno,
Feb 25th, 2012 - 05:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0NO NEGOTIATIONS on SOVEREIGNTY.
lt will never happen.
You have nothing to offer.
You have nothing that we want.
You want what is not yours.
You can't have what is not yours.
Get used to it.
No content Isolde.Again.You are no state official are you?
Feb 25th, 2012 - 10:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0@318 Yuleno,
Feb 25th, 2012 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How much content in your posts?
Could be. Ask geo!
Did you ever stir your lazy self & research about Amritsar?
No? thought not.
Just for you Yuleno, there will be NO NEGOTIATIONS on SOVEREIGNTY.
@yulkeno and Axel arg - the present is what I am all about.
Feb 26th, 2012 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The people who live in the falklands are the ones directy threatened by you and your governments policies of blockade, isolation and conquest.
I am not going to reject the views I have previosuly stated because I believe that in this case my country is in the right.
It is your country that is dwelling in the past - 180 odd years to be precise, and pining for the few years that you managed to acquire some overseas territory, initially we tolearted your presence, until the colony became a chaotic mess (exacerbated by the actions of the USN). We certainly did'nt give you permission to annex the islands or establish a garrison. Yet you continue to bang on about it.
We are quite happy to put the past behind us, and move on.
As to Axels comments about trouble in the future, I recognise a threat when I see one. I think you lot are lucky that you're only facing weak politicians at the moment, we could make your lives hard too if we so wished. Bring it on.
@Isolde, I already told him about Armritsar, I compared it to the equivalent massacres in Argentina in the same year, he was very quiet about it afterwards, his “holier than thou” thing did'nt work..............
Greek - I actually agree with and am pleasantly surprise by your support for the Palestinians - wonder how many of your allies on herecould say that?! But your continued attempts to argue, contrary to the evidence put in this very thread by a member of Argentina's vibrant jewish community, that Kirchnerism=naziism, do you far less credit.
Feb 26th, 2012 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel arg - would just like to say how much I appreciate the clarity of your posts which cut through the propaganda and ignarance of the opposition every time, especially their mendacious attempts to equate Kirchnerism with the junta
Shb- you told me nothing about how the Brits used Amritsar as a slaughter of civilians long before the nazis used violence as a terror deterrent.Argentina has never slaughtered civilians in another country.Amritsar was and is a stain that you Brits recognised after the event but people like you refuse to acknowledge it.Thats how reliable your views are.
Feb 26th, 2012 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Yuleno :OK I have posted it before: here it is again.
Feb 26th, 2012 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Armritsar massacre: Sunday 13 April 1919, General Reginald Edward Harry Dyer responded to a protest meeting by ordering troops to fire into a crowd, following a period of unrest in which a number of europeans had been killed. Dyers (wrongly) believed that a revolt was either starting or about to start. At least 359 people were killed and another 1100 minimum wounded. It is a stain on the honour of the British army and it helped speed up the independence of India and the breakup of the empire.
So there you go - I never apologised for it and I can't imagine why Byers (a decorated war hero before massacre) could have been so stupid and/or filled with blood lust to carry out this murderous act.
It is'nt a bit of British history I am proud of at all. All I can say in my countries defence on this one is that we have welcomed many Indians to our country since then ( some of my best mates in work and out are Indian) and tried to make amends by giving them independence, aid etc.
However, you're country experienced its own equivalent massacre in 1919. Tragic week. 700 killed and over 4000 wounded. Your own people killed in a wave of repression by your gvernment. The Argentine Patriotic league killed a further 1500 people in order to quel dissent, including a little anti-jewish pogrom.
Thats how reliable my views are - I can see where we went wrong, too many instances for my liking.
Anway: that was 1919, almost 100 years ago - what matters is now - you are the aggressors in this case, and we will not yield to you.
@British Kirchenest: The middle east......ugh......The Arabs, Israelis and Plalestinians all need to get their acts together.
Israel needs to let Palestine exist as a viable state. The Palestinians need to stop dreaming about exterminating the jews and exporting jihad into europe.
@323shb,
Feb 27th, 2012 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0There was slightly more to Amritsar than that, but you are essentially correct.
There have been several books written on the matter, l have read three.
The best one, l feel was called “Six Minutes to Sunset”
Can't remember the author. l recommend you read it if you're interested.
l explained all this to Yuleno several months back & l got the impression from his replies that he thought that l supported the shootings.
He kept trying to get me to say this & became increasingly frustrated & desperate when l wouldn't play his silly game.
He wanted me to admit how bloodthirsty we are! Nowhere near as bloody as the Argentines are.
Just like these malvinistas get frustrated & desperate when we won't roll over & have our bellies' tickled.
l knew he wouldn't do any research as he thought it was a dead end, so l was winding him up when l asked him what he had found.
l must have missed your post when you mentioned it to him.
Back on track, it pales into insignificance when viewed against their “dirty war”.
Is anyone else getting a little tired of all this?
Feb 27th, 2012 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0malvinistas:- Those are our Islands
Falklands :- Oh no they arn't
malvinistas:- Oh yes they are... ( repeat indefinitely )
Just like a pantomine only without the men dressed up as women, I think.
I'm getting the impession that these malvinistas are not actually getting the message...... and they've missed the Panto season as well.
Ha ha Isolde-@80Geoff,
Feb 27th, 2012 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, Amritsar 1919. General Reginald Dyer.
At his court martial he testified that the only reason that he didn't use machine guns was because they were mounted on armoured cars & the streets were too narrow to allow the armoured cars to reach the killing ground.
Now there's honesty for you!
Many books written about it but l found the best one was called “Six minutes to Sunset” can't remember the author.
Don't think there were women present but there were some children.
Prior to the shooting, the mob had murdered 4 or 5 Europeans, looted numerous banks & native shops, burned down buildings, derailed trains & thrashed an English lady teacher within an inch of her life(Miss Sherwood).
Dyer's small force was cut off & had no communication with any other British forces. His words were “for all we knew, we were the last Europeans in lndia”
After his action, the rebellion(if it was a rebellion) collapsed.
What any other Commanding Officer have done?
Surrender to the mob? l don't think so.
l think he was a fall guy.
Now you remember this post of yours and how you were misguided and didn't know Dyer was coutrt marshalled and I highlighted this.
You need to be faithful to yourself then you won't have to remember what you post :-(
@isolde - thanks for the recomendation, I have read a few accounts of the Empire, my main interest is military history (my grandad was a good story teller and a professional soldier in the 1930s, called up from reserves for ww2. He got me interested when I was knee high to a grasshopper).
Feb 27th, 2012 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps one of the positive lessons we can take from Armritsar was the very fact that the authorities realised that Dyers had made a catastrophic error that had resulted in a bloodbath, so he was court martialed.
I am very proud of my country and it's history and refuse to do the kind of self hate demanded by the lefties. However, I also admit that sometimes we carried out appaling acts.
For all that I do like to tell the lefties that a least we helped stamp out the thuggies and the practice of sati in india and that the RN was the scourge of pirates and slave traders. They don't like that.
No country has an umblemished history.
Tell me Yuleno - did the perpetrators of Tragic week get sent to jail or face court martial?
Shb
Feb 27th, 2012 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have inherited your grandfather storytelling ability.
The point you amissing is the tragic week(as bad as it was),was an internal matter.Amritsar was in another country.It was committed by the external terrorist.Dyer ran out of bullets.As you see from what Isolde wrote,with her extensive knowledge from reading three books,she believes Dyers was a fall guy.
Will you correct her misguided opinion?
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