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Foreign Office summons Argentine diplomat; limiting trade “counterproductive”

Wednesday, February 29th 2012 - 14:35 UTC
Full article 120 comments

Argentina's top diplomat in Britain was summoned to London's Foreign Office on Wednesday to explain his country's decision to ask 20 leading companies to stop importing British products and supplies. Read full article

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  • GreekYoghurt

    I thought Argentina was supposed to be choosing who it's strategic partners were supposed to be? I guess it's not going to be the UK or EU the rate this is going. Clearly only fools want to trade with the UK and EU.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    Turning away cruise ships......... Not wanting to trade with the UK.....Complaining to the UN?? The next thing you know, the fools will claim that the Falkland Islands are part of Argentina HA,HA!!! could you imagine??

    Oh no.......hang on... wait a minute......

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Cestrian

    “Tensions are rising ahead of the anniversary of the 1982 South Atlantic conflict between Argentina and Britain over the Falklands when Argentine forces invaded the Falklands and South Georgia Islands”.

    Err, can we just remember that the tensions are rising on the Argentine side, not on our side. We couldn't care less.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    One way or another, this should spell the end of the EU/Mercosur trade agreement. After all, what has argieland got that Britain wants or needs? Add in no British (or related) flagged cruise vessels calling at argie ports. But argies on tall buildings will be able stare across and watch more cruise vessels docking in Montevideo and Punta Arenas. And argieland wants to reduce imports from Britain? Not a problem. Watch how argie exports to the UK drop off. Never mind, argies, we have more money than you will EVER have. So much money that we can build what you have to buy.

    What is the future for argieland? That's easy. The Falkland Islanders are going to BUY it. And rename it Falk Land. All the occupants will be given 12 months to learn to speak a proper language properly. Those who fail will be sent to a suitable third-world country. Like Spain.

    And Falk Land will be another British Overseas Territory for as long as it takes to turn the occupants into proper people. People who recognise the rights of the real indigenous people, who should be the leaders, rather than the “rights” of the implanted Spanish genocides.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    This is what happens when you let a truculent, immature, intellectually-retarded, mentally unstable person in charge of a whole country. CFKC was never meant to run the country, just act as Nestor's puppet until he was President again. Now Argentina has to suffer the whims of her bi-polar cycle and policy based on the suggestion box ideas of interns. (There is no way an intelligent politician could be responsible for her recent decisions). She must have the thought process of a gold fish and can only think 5 seconds ahead.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Ricardito

    @4 what happened in Australia and South Africa with the aboriginals?

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Cestrian

    @4 All the UK will do is buy from a different country if push comes to shove and we decide on a reprisal.

    Its a shame for the normal Argentine citizen that it has come to this but unfortunately they voted her in and they now need to get her out one way or another so that some sort of normality can return to Argentina.

    they also need to forget about the Falklands and start to build a rational prosperous country based on the undoubted resources available to them.

    Less fighting with the outside world and more focus on internal matters, including the prosperity of their people is required.

    They cant keep going on like this.

    Its now laughable. The rest of south America must cringe when the phone rings and they find out that it is “that woman” on the other end.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JustinKuntz

    #6 They're still there.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Ricardito

    #8 Come one! That is true, but you do know what happened to many of them. Unfourtunately, Spaniards and Argentines did the same!

    By the way, I really liked the phrase “suitable third-world country. Like Spain.”

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @7 What makes you think there is any such thing as a “normal Argentine citizen”? Argieland has more psychiatrists and psychologists than anywhere else in the world. They are all, by definition, nutters. I can only think of one comparable country. Wartime Japan. Argieland is a psychotic country!

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pvdv

    pathetic these argies.. selling to the UK they dont mind, but buying..they boycott.. its a matter of time that country defailts again

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    Yes indeed Argentina is being run by a load psychotic politicians who want to distract their population away from real issues.

    How long are their citizens going to put up with Christina and her cronies?

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Ok, I officially declare Mercopress a racist condoner.

    These comments today have gotten out of control.

    If any of you Mercopress people read what is being sad (of you btw too, Uruguayans speak “spanish”), you must have no self-respect for yourselves. Trully appaling. Good thing I don't take it personally! But your website is looking more and more like a BNP front. Nice job!

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Many Brits on theis forum know that CFK IS idolised by the poor people SIMPLY because she threw money at them and they feel that they owe her something.

    By showing further support they probably imagine she will continue to throw money at them until they realise the removal of subsidies is costing them everything she gave them and more.

    But, as we keep getting told by the Argentine bloggers who hate her, there is no credible opposition who can replace her.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @14 If the poor where no longer poor she would lose her voting public. She has no interest in allowing them to move out of poverty. Instead she gives them gifts like a microwave (with Evita it was bicycles) and allows them to steal electricity and gives them a little money to live on. Then she feeds them false hope where they have no hope.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Lump

    @13 Tobias, I too wince at some of the ultra right wing comments put on here from some . The “We're richer than you and don't care what you do” rhetoric is rather embarrassing. I don't see this coming from Merco Press though only from the forum users.

    Your government is being very aggressive towards us and it seems to be at the detriment of your own people and standing in the world at large.
    We also hear on here, too often, “The British are theiving pirates”, “The Islanders are Kelpers” and that we are “colonial brutes”.

    You can only insult the British so may times before we bite back.
    The continued sanctions on our Islands and ships from your government has sadly led to the rhetoric going out of control.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Viscount Falkland

    Point gun at foot...........shoot, Then repeat....Point gun at foot...

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    Comment removed by the editor.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redcoat

    @18 Conqueror
    I think you need a little more practice in the technique of winning over hearts and minds

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Lump,

    I have said it recently that the Argentine government is losing it. What's more important, I am saying this in Argentine specific forums where it is not met with the best of receptions by some, but whatever.

    I as an Argentine care about proper respect for others, and sound policies. But I don't care how others view us in the end.

    Conqueror,

    Get over yourself. If Argentina really went rogue it could build its own nukes and deliveries, it's not like it doesn't have the science. I would probably take 15 years and divert funds from hospitals and schools, but it could be done. And it would only need 100 warheads to wipe out any nation by striking the major cities which are home to 95% of most countries populations.

    You don't have any technology that is out of reach for us. Now some sort of shiled from nukes would be more impressive.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Tobias,

    What you are witnessing is the British government and British people rapidly running out of patience with a childish, ignorant, bullying set of people who seem hell bent on picking on 3,000 innocent islanders.

    As it happens we can shot nukes down in any manner of ways, heck even the new Type 45 warships can shoot them down. In terms of development Argentina is about 60 years behind Britain and could not replicate British nuclear technology even in 15 years but that is a moot point anyway since all of the elements to launch a successful attack you'd still not have even with the weapon.

    Conquerer honestly buddy don't be too extreme, its clear the UK would never use them on Argentina nor even threaten with them.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Xect

    And what are you going to do? Go to war first? Over what?

    The policies by CFK will hurt us in the end, but they are also policies which Britain can do very little to nothing about. And I think that is what is really boiling the blood of many here. It would be much easier if Argentina did re-invade the Falklands, brecause then things would be much simpler in a case of good guys vs bad guys on the battlefield. But these policies of “rallying” neighbors, turning away vessels, etc... are much more cloudier in terms of how to respond to them. I think it is that impotence that is making many posters here lose it and rail away.

    It is people like Conqueror that are putting their families at risk long run, because it is precisely that attitude of unrestrained arrogance that makes countries like Iran, India, Pakistan, and perhaps Brazil and others seek nukes. There is the sense in the world that countries with nukes feel like they are completely bound by no laws of international respect.

    It is not Argentina you have to worry about even if it had nukes, it is countries like Iran that really are tired of the West telling them to shup up because “we have nukes, you don't”.

    Pakistan is the proof, before nukes, no one cared about making them mad... now, everyone goes on tip toes around them.

    Shooting down nukes is irreleant if they are snuck in to the country in question. In the 21st century delivery systems are overrated and perhaps even irrelevant. What changes the equation totally is if a country gets nukes. Because then it can blackmail. Like Conqueror does...

    And I have no doubt his mentality exists within the ranks of the British government, because governments inevitably reflect their people and at a more basic level human faillings.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • cLOHO

    what clap trap...how can Argies hurt us economically they are broke and clasping at straws. The reason so many people post on these forums isnt due to the impotance of the UK in dealing with the insane uneducated and frankley mad ramblings of a dictator. Argentina will be the one to hurt, when IMF loans are called in. US is rallying UK support to not support you financially. So you dont have any true friends, mad inflation ( that your country lies about constantly) UK 6th largest investor in Argieland...clever move. Lets wait and see what happens.... this is a smokescreen for your failing country FACT. And before yhr usual UK is finished etc etc we have a GDP you can only dream about. Now stop being silly and make friends.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Tobias #20
    In your comments you have used the word “shiled” - sorry, but I do not recognise this word in the English language. Is it a miss spell ?
    I agree with your comments that this forum descends into schoolboy abuse instead of logical arguments. The talk of nuclear weapons is total nonsense.
    Britain would never use them first - only after the had sustained a nuclear attack.
    Your government seems hell bent on racking up the rhetoric. This will only have the opposite effect on the British public. Just now, it hardly makes the news but any escalation could lead to an incident from which no side could back down. The hot heads seem to be on your side. Latin Americans have the reputation of loving the “macho” gesture. Britons have more of a phlegmatic temperament and are very slow to rile but when they do go, it's fangs out.
    Your government made a serious miscalculation in 1982, I hope for all our sakes the current crowd has learned from this.
    Trade embargoes help no one. I regularly drink Argentinian and Chilean wine
    If it came to the crunch I would switch totally to Chilean products
    I cannot understand why the Argentine is in such a mess. They have a huge land area, natural resources and a good number of educated people. Why are they not doing better. Invite the Chinese or Japanese in to run your country and you would be rich in 20 years - now there's a thought.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    Comment removed by the editor.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Tobias the UK can actually hurt Argentina very easily.

    If you think about it we can support blocking IMF loans, we can see trade sanctions using EU laws, we can deliberately target Argentine investment abroad, we can stop purchasing Argentine goods and with a collapsing economy it would take very little British effort to push Argentina over the edge.

    As for nukes please show me where the UK has ever threatened a country with them, I will give you a clue, it hasn't.

    Argentina really can be punished very heavily, very easily in economic and political terms.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Malvinero1

    Tobias the UK can actually hurt Argentina very easily.

    If you think about it we can support blocking IMF loans, we can see trade sanctions using EU laws, we can deliberately target Argentine investment abroad, we can stop purchasing Argentine goods and with a collapsing economy it would take very little British effort to push Argentina over the edge.

    Wrong again,xsect!
    uk did not hurt Argentina very much in 1982,now the odds are very much on Argentina's side..IMF???? Well Argentina paid all the loans to the IMF and is not dependent on foreign credit....THere is very little uk can do to hurt Argentina.I think you are in Victorian times,when all the civilized pleas by Argentina,were constantly ignored by uk.COntinuos protest since 1833,invitation to arbitration(6),10 UNGA and 30 c-24.OAS,Mercosur,UNASUR..c'mon....What do you want.....The biggest economy in SA is Brazil.And Brazil,as the 6th largest world economy as said: Supports Argentina...... uk time is over....Just negotiate a good way out......

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Ricardito

    @Clyde15
    Dear Clyde
    “I cannot understand why the Argentine is in such a mess. They have a huge land area, natural resources and a good number of educated people. Why are they not doing better.”
    That is because of the governments we have....it's a pitty.

    Dear Mr Conqueror,
    Excuse me, my English is not very good, let me see if I understood what correctly what you said:
    Do you hate the 40 million of Argentines?

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Sir Rodderick Bodkin

    Trolls and keyboard warriors everywhere.
    Bring it on if you EVEN think you have what it takes, conquie.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • xbarilox

    @ 20 “this in Argentine specific forums” are you crazy? This is a Brisith website, you ¨f*cking moron.

    You as an argentine, are an imbecile, like all Malvinists. You don't carea about respect, you don't insult people with words like criminal, pirates, thieves, etc. and then you expect people to respect you. If you don't care, what are you doing here, coward? F*ck you Malvinists, I hope one day I'll have the chance to kill all of you. Y vos, pedazo de mierda peronista, vas a ser uno de los primeros en desaparecer de este planeta, rata malvinista de mierda.

    Shove your respect up your *rse.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Argentina has no outstanding IMF loans. Hasn't for over a decade. So all of you guys are woolgathering if you think the UK has any power in that front, not even the US does (as long as Argentina doesn't need anything from the IMF), simply because Argentina has no credit lines with the entity.

    The IMF can't even get Argentina to publish accurate inflation figures, remember? That's how little leverage they have. Argentina paid the IMF debts in full in 2005 (a wise move), so what loans are you all talking about? They don't exist.

    The British have very little real leverage when it comes to these measures, practically or morally, and that is what makes many of you angry.

    You yourselves are saying many of these measures are internal in nature (cruise ships, importing certain goods, etc)... “shoot in the foot, wink wink”. The other side of that coin is Britain cannot force Argentina to accept ships docking in its ports (that was my first comment on this website, btw). And it can't tell Argentines what to buy or not buy... Again, just like the Falklands can turn away ships it pleases, so can we. The fact you guys can't accept that says a lot.

    It's well known Margaret Thacher wanted to nuke Argentina; that alone is why no country with nukes can ever be trusted, really.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Arguably the UK helped Argentina greatly in 82' by its actions that caused the regime change.

    Anyway you need to read up about how reliant Argentina is on foreign loans. Try here then come back.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/9111201/Hit-Argentina-where-it-hurts-in-the-wallet.html

    The government has since been sued by creditors around the world as they try to force Argentina to honour its obligations. In the Southern District Court of New York alone, there have been more than 170 bondholder lawsuits, resulting in more than 100 judgments. Today, Argentina still owes more than £15 billion in old debts ranging from Paris Club loans, to bondholders, and to foreign investors holding arbitral awards from the International Centre for the Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID). In each case, Argentina has refused to play by the rules. It has demanded a Paris Club restructuring without the mandatory IMF monitoring, it has ignored New York court judgments, and it has insisted, in blatant disregard of its treaty obligations under ICSID, that arbitral awards be brought to Argentina for “approval” by its own courts.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Frank

    @20 'probably take 15 years and ****divert funds from hospitals and schools***',

    I really do think they cost a bit more than that.....

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Cestrian

    @27
    “Well Argentina paid all the loans to the IMF and is not dependent on foreign credit”.

    What a load of shit. You walked away from your debts, defaulted on them and still owe the Us$40b.

    You talk as though the Argentine was the greatest nation on earth rather than the 3rd world dictatorship it is. Then again after the crap you get fed at school about the Falklands i suppose we shouldn't be surprised at your ignorance and re-writing of history.

    Brainwashing in action.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    The Telegraph, I was told to completely distrust their news veracity when I posted something about how the British veterans of Iraq were being criminaly neglected back home.

    So which one is it, trust the Telegraph or not? LOL!

    The article is really very poor journalism, well it is an borderline editorial meets impotence.

    The Telegraph talks about the UK putting billions of pounds in aid to Argentina... but then immediately state it's via their contributions to the WORLD BANK! How disingenous can you be? Obviously of those “billions” probably 99% goes to Africa, middle East, southeast Asia, India, Central America, etc...

    The World Bank loans to Argentina in recent times at best are a few hundred millon dollars. Even if they were nixed, it would have virtually no effect.

    Second, the Telegraph says Argentina isn't paying its creditors on the defaulted debt. Do they realize that debt is DEFAULTED permamently? There is not such thing as paying back 100% when you went bankrupt. Specially since Argentina was the only emerging country in the world that was not bailed out (like Mexico, Brazil, Korea, Russia, Indonesia, Thailand, Turkey, Philipines, etc, etc were in the 1990s).

    Those countries had to pay their debts back because they were given bail outs to prevent them from defaulting. Argentina was not, so it did. Now that money is gone, it ain't coming back, and that is the way it should be.

    So no loans from the IMF, very little in loans from the World Bank, and the defaulted 2001 has nothing to do with anything because it's already been setttled as an issue whether they like it or not. If the investors didn't agree to the debt swap tough on them.

    Of course, I would never lend a dime to Argentina, I freely admit that. But if you do, either you win big or lose big. That's why it's called highly speculative debt. Lesson over.. :)

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Cestrian

    @35 - lesson just beginning for you lot me thinks. As for defaulting permanently not according to these people who continue to press your government for their money: http://atfa.org/about/

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    When you say a few hundred million I presume you actually mean about 5.6 BILLION...

    https://finances.worldbank.org/Loan-and-Credit-Administration/IBRD-Summary-of-Current-Loans-for-Argentina/i6bp-y6p4

    As for the defaults to restore credit Argentine needs to repay its debts even after a default but I guess you knew that right?

    Lesson over.....

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    As long as you Argies think Argentina is going great guns, she will keep going great guns,
    Its very sad then, she is firing blanks.

    Once again you interpret everything the British say, as provocative,
    Despite the fact that it is actually Argentina who is being provocative,

    We don’t have to threaten you, the facts are, if Argentina starts an embargo,
    Two things will happen, [before she picks up the phone]
    1, her friends will not back you, in a trade war, they may be your friends, but please don’t insult them, by treating them as stupid,

    2, your economy will slowly collapse, the more you push, the more you will suffer,
    The more you blockade, the more your own people it will hurt,
    And all because the lady has an obsession with something she can never have.
    [hbtw]
    today only comes every leap year, so use it well .

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Audi Consilium

    @35 - “Do they realize that debt is DEFAULTED permamently? There is not such thing as paying back 100% when you went bankrupt. ”

    So, confirmation that Argentina is bankrupt. That would be morally, militarily, legally and of course financially. - Happy days.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    The Cestrian:

    Those people can of course go to court, that doesn't mean Argentina has to pay them back in full, EVEN if they were to win (most cases they have lost).

    That debt is gone, you know it, I know it.

    And the reason it should be gone is because Argentina walked away from its debts when the IMF rejected to give a bail out in late 2001. Or do you forget that?

    Mexico was bailed out directly by the USA in 1994 in the Tequila crisis. They repaid the loan in full as they should.

    Thailand was bailed out in 1997 in the Baht crisis, they repaid as they should.

    South Korea was bailed out in the Asian panic of late 1997 from collapsing, they repaid (as they should).

    Indonesia, Phillipines were bailed out in 1998. They repaid as they should.

    Russia was bailed out in 1998. They repaid as they should.

    Brazil was bailed out in 1999. They didn't default as a result and payed it back as it should be.

    The UK, Italy, France, Japan, and Germany were bailed out in the Marshall Plan from your debts and with reconstruction. You paid it back as it should be.

    The USA bailed itself out in 2008 via China. Now they are paying to them, as it should be.

    Argentina was NOT BAILED OUT in 2001, the IMF, the United States, Europe denied the loan. Argentina defaulted it really didn't have any other choice... yet you want us to pay back in full?

    Admit that the Argentine default wasn't exactly Argentina walking away from debt. It was a very exceptional case were it was the one case were no bail out was given.

    So we have no obligation to pay anyone back.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Cestrian

    @ 40 - in fact you owe $157.7b:

    http://atfa.org/impact/
    Argentina's debt default and restructuring have resulted in a global net cost of $157.7 billion.

    Pay up.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    You people are funny. You are just trolling and you know it.

    “As for the defaults to restore credit Argentine needs to repay its debts even after a default but I guess you knew that right?”

    Nope, Argentina does not have to pay back a dime.

    If it did, then there would be no such thing as capital markets. People loan to a government or any entity with interest because there is a RISK OF LOSS ACCEPTED. The higher the rate, the more money you get at maturity, but you also risk losing principal.

    What would be the point of anyone borrowing if they HAD to return the principal under any circumstance whatsoever? No one would borrow because such terms are too onerous to them and beneficial to the lender. Since borrowing is a risk-reward, both sides agree neither end is guaranteed anything. The borrower can be rejected from getting a loan, and the lender can lose their money. Most of the time however, they would get a profit in the form of simple or compound interest.

    Basic economics really, that no trolling can change.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Cestrian

    @ 42 - no one is listening to you:

    http://blogs.reuters.com/macroscope/2012/02/29/vultures-swoop-on-argentina/

    http://blogs.reuters.com/macroscope/2012/02/29/vultures-swoop-on-argentina/

    You will regret, sooner or later, raising this ludicrous Falklands issue yet again. Some wars dont have to be fought militarily, they can and hopefully will be fought economically and judging from recent articles the Argentine is near the top of the list for such a reprisal.

    As for your post, yes that sums up the Argentine reaction to a loan - we'll not pay it back because......

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    The risk of borrowing could incur a default but even in a default situation creditors can expect something in return if the loan is secured unless you are telling us all Argentine loans were unsecured?

    Hence the fact until Argentina pays its debts its going to continue to be locked out of different markets.

    If indeed your situation was true then none of the creditors would still be chasing Argentina now would they? (quite clearly not).

    I also enjoyed the reason why you think Argentina doesn't need to repay its debts because nobody helped it out, not due to the fact it spent money it didn't have?

    You do realise Argentina effectively stole the money of many countries by refusing to pay its debts?

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Cestrian

    Looks like Argentina is, pardon my French, pretty much fucked and we see why they are up to what they are up to:

    http://www.iar-gwu.org/node/324

    Its an interesting article that tells us why people are being fined for saying internally that inflation is way over the official figure, why the presidents cronies are coming up with the figures and why very soon this will come home to roost.

    This wont be a pretty sight.

    ”Acknowledging inflation rates upwards of 20 percent would increase interest due on Argentina’s inflation-indexed debt. Accordingly, government officials opt to mask inflation estimates , a move that saved an estimated $2.8 billion in 2010. An infamous anecdote illustrates Argentine officials’ desperation to conceal high inflation figures: McDonald’s restaurants in Argentina recently instituted a price ceiling on the Big Mac in response to pressure from government officials. The government directive targeted the world’s most popular burger as a means to insulate Argentina from criticism by The Economist’s Big Mac Index – an index used to compare purchasing power around the world – which ranked Argentina’s official inflation statistics the least accurate worldwide. Similarly, publishing inflation statistics in Argentina above the official inflation rate of 9.7 percent is subject to government retaliation, as reflected by fines levied against private economists of up to USD$120,000.

    Argentina will invariably need to borrow in international capital markets in the medium-term. Continuous stop-gap measures meant to finance the fiscal gap are not economically viable. Unfortunately, economic isolationism is likely to increase in an effort to preserve Argentina’s dwindling trade surplus, and masking financial shortcomings with protectionism and censorship only slows down Argentina’s inevitable return to global markets for financial support. Argentina’s economic policymakers must settle with international creditors to begin to restore the country’s credibili

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Cestrian, you are showing impotence here. Argentina can't do anything about getting the Falklands back. I know it, you know it. And I'm glad because the people in those islands have spoken for themselves on what their sovereingty wishes are.

    The world can do little about Argentina's “unpaid” debts. Argentina offered a restructuring, twice. A few rejected them, twice.

    Those holdouts will not win. If they didn't win in the last 10 years, with the memories of the default fresh in the world economic and political circles, they are doomed for the next 1000. It's over. The sooner those Italian, German, Spanish, French, and US investors get that the better.

    They are losing FAR MORE MONEY today with their governments profligacy and bail outs of the banks, than they ever lost with argiebonds.

    It says a lot that the IMF, World Bank, Obama, the UK, german and italian bondholders, AFTA, all joining forces CANNOT FORCE PUNY ARGENTINA TO HER KNEES.

    I'm sorry, but that seems to indicate either abject miserable incompetence on their (your) side, or Argentina is some superpower in disguise. You choose which it may be.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Cestrian

    @46 - more here.

    Looks like the US is after you big time:

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/46567941

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Actually the IMF, World bank, UK, USA, Germany and Italy could end the Argentine economy overnight if it so wished to do so but clearly that wouldn't be rational nor would it lead to a good outcome for any of the parties involved.

    How do you think Argentina would cope if these countries levied sanctions and froze Argentine assets? Your economy would collapse overnight although arguably its a bit late in the day since it looks like its already in progress.

    If you can't see that then quite frankly you are beyond help.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Cestrian

    Since when the editorial opinion of a rabid anti-Argentine like AFTA speaks for the USA government?

    Xect,

    I'm not an expert on the defaulted bonds. BTW, I didn't say Argentina should not pay back SOMETHING to the hold-outs, it simply should not pay back 100%, and certainly not any more than those that did swap debt got. Of course I understand that any defaulted debt has to be payed, but when you say “pay back” to me it sounds like paying back in full. That is what I am saying will never happen.

    Of course Argentina spent money it didn't have, and it defaulted. The other countries (most emerging markets including the Asian tigers), also SPENT beyond their means, got caught in the panic of the Asian Crisis, the Tequila or Brazilian crisis... YET THEY WERE STILL BAILED OUT.

    In fact the argument could be made that such behavior was REWARDED by bailing out all those countries from their overborrowing. Argentina was not rewarded, and it defaulted.

    This is the process in fact many conservatives would have called for in the European situation today, or in the bailouts of the US and UK financial systems in 2008.

    So which one is it, to bail out or ot bail out?

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Good question Tobias and the truth is, its a difficult position to take either way.

    Sometimes a country cannot be bailed out and sometimes a country has to be.

    I'm not suggesting Argentina was treated fairly but I am suggesting it has a responsibility to pay its creditors which it has refused to do in many cases.

    Although the US and UK have not been bailed out by anyway in reference to the 2008 point.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Cestrian

    @48

    It looks as though the time is fast approaching where internally the government has taxed everything it has and will soon have to draw on its foreign reserves held in Switzerland (so triggering a claim on that money) and also ask for a bailout internationally.

    not only that but within 180 days if 1 January (IIRC) and if it hasnt responded to the IMF's call for financial data transparency, then they are even more in the shit ie distrusted even more by the international community.

    Pay back time pretty shortly for the Argentines to grapple with but then again with its “we're alright Jack, fuck you” attitude to anyone and everyone, it will be a day that has been a long time in coming.

    the pieces are now beginning to fit together as to why the Argentine government is currently losing the plot. The show is almost over for the botox queen. An exile in Miami beckons for her.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    And that is the crux Xect, if countries go after Argentina, Argentina simply plays dead and poor. And thus will not get their money back.

    If they do nothing, then the situation is overlooked, and they still don't get their money back.

    You have to admit, that in this one issue, Argentina will likely win, and has been “winning”. Of course as you pointed out, Argentina can't borrow internationaly, so that would be bad.

    Or maybe not... because then no investors can be put at risk, and Argentina has to learn to live within its internal resources. And if it gets into trouble, it is only us Argentines who will suffer. You see I'm all for personal responsibility. Maybe its better this way.

    Argentina is how things go when a country is not bailed out. Yes some people will lose all their money, but the country is punished with lack of credit, and is FORCED to be more frugal.

    The other option is the bail out. Everyone gets their money back by socializing the loses. It is the taxpayers who put the bill, and if history tells us anything, the behavior that led to the bail outs being needed in the first place reoccurs later in some other bubble.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • shb

    @Tobias

    I think you may find that you are being a bit optimistic. Your govt is pursuing a high risk strategy and you may find that are simply alienating anf antagonising the very countries who you amy want to approach for investmet/loans.

    Personally I think that we should do everything we can to make your lives difficult in the world money markets, and withdraw our funding via aid to Argentina (only £7million, but £7million too much).

    Ultimately we can hurt you more than you can hurt us. Your country is constantly raising the stakes and putting pressure on us. That is why you are starting to get some real anger directed at you.

    We don't want another war, or to keep going over the same tired old“surrender the falklands to us” ground with you.

    We are'nt going to buckle under, we are just going to get more and more p***ed off with you, if your lot want a fight, it looks increasingly like you might get it.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    I agree Tobias.

    I still standby my original statement the UK can easily economically damage Argentina though.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Cestrian

    53 - ultimately you are right.

    what the junta did in 1982 looks like it may come to pass in 2012 ie a gross underestimate of the power and influence that the UK has compared to the Argentine.

    Undoubtedly there will be retaliation from the UK at some point, unlikely to me military and very likely to be a huge economic blow to BA somewhere and sometime soon.

    It may well bring down the botox queen, as it did Galtieri all those years ago.

    At some point the Argentines have to realise that this Falklands crap is completely futile and instead of bolstering or strengthening their dictators it eventually brings them down.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Falklands are British

    Argentina holds no lessons for Greece in how to manage a sovereign default, Robert Shapiro, Co-chair of the American Taskforce on Argentina and Co-founder and Chairman of Sonecon, an economic advisory firm told CNBC.com.

    “Argentina has not gotten out of their situation. They have effectively said: ‘the rules don’t apply to us’,” he said.

    “The international financial system works on trust and integrity if there wasn’t that, it would break down and this leads to isolation. The Argentine model is a catastrophic way to handle a default. The fact that it’s a G20 country doing this is particularly catastrophic. This brings up the question of whether they should be in the G20 at all,” Shapiro told CNBC.com.

    The South American country defaulted in 2001 after suffering a protracted recession where it was unable to meet its debt repayments – the largest default in history. Greece is mirroring some of the events which unfolded there including fracturing social cohesion, rioting in the streets and severe hardship for the public with massive unemployment.

    Argentina is still excluded from international capital markets because of its inability to come to an agreement with some of its creditors about repayment of its debts .

    Shapiro argues that the decade since has seen Argentina recover economically and that it has been deceptive about its situation delaying full repayment of its debts from that time.

    “They have not been transparent about the fiscal situation. They are trying out a new model which is effectively ‘we make the rules up ourselves’. If Argentina were to become the model there would be chaos. It’s the most dangerous model out there,” he added.

    Shapiro said the U.S. had decided to take affirmative action against Argentina because it “serially violates international norms”.

    RELATED LINKS
    Video: Greece is Already in DefaultPortugal Passes Bailout Review; Recession to Worsen
    “We have been putting legal pressure on them and that hasn’t worked so now we’re saying

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Well of course the UK can hurt Argentina a lot more than Argentina can the UK on a financial front (when Argentina decides it want to “play”), but that is an absolute ratio in a small field. It's like saying a giant wasp can harm a bee in a colony of thousands. The UK-Argentina financial links are small overall, even for Argentina... so while the UK can hurt more than we can you, the overall impact would still not be of a decisive nature in Argentina's whole economy.

    Even if all trade was cut (impossible), it's 2 billion out of 85 billion for Argentina, it's 2.3% of what accounts for only 20% of the economy. And that's only if all trade was cut.

    However, if the whole of the USA, Europe, IMF, IDB, and other Latin Americans united against us, then of course we would have no chance.

    That would be the dream come true of many here, finally us totally destroyed! :)

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    I wouldn't like to see that Tobias, too many decent, good people would suffer because of CFK who quite frankly is the worst people to represent any country and I feel an embarrassment to the decent people of the country.

    Argentina needs to back off its attacks on the people of the Falkland islands and rhetoric and we can all just go about our business quietly.

    There is no need for conflict and there is certainly no need for conflict Argentina can't possibly win, the country needs all the help it can get yet is moving in the opposite direction.

    I personally have nothing against any Argentine person but I do have a very strong dislike for the current Argentine government.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Cestrian

    @57 -

    Ultimately this isnt about Argentina and the Uk this is about you and the rest of the world who are waiting for you to “come out to play” following your default. They have waited a long time for you and the doors are being opened for you as we speak. “Come in botox queen. you want some money you say, well how about settling up on your prior debts first please”?

    You should never have done what you did all those years ago and you should never have raised the issue of the Falklands again.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Falklands are British

    58 Tobias

    I thought your posts were slightly more credible than those of a lot of your fellow Malvinistas until you started explaining your view on the economic situation in Argentina. You seem pretty intelligent and you put good sentences together without resorting to rhetoric and threats. You usually do a bit of research too.

    Then you start trying to explain that it is normal for countries to not pay back their debt and that there is nothing wrong with it. Argentina is in the G20 (I can't understand how or why or for how much longer) man! Wake up to yourself!

    How much longer do you think you can play poor whilst your economy recovers AND remain in G20? You are unbelievable. It doesn't even sound like you think it is a problem. No wonder the world is laughing at you. Argentina could be amongst the richest and most thriving nations in the world but look at you.

    LOL!

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Well, I personally find that the only positive of this circus CFK is promoting (because when your whole foreign policy within a matter of three months shrinks from a worldwide engagement to a pair of desolate islands that is a circus), is that it makes it less likely we will get loans and the like. I don't want for Argentina to get loans, they do more damage than good. The longer Argentine governments learn to live without them the better.

    Argentina has been out of the capital markets for 10 years and it was not the end of the world as predicted, and as all of you here would even admit. The economy grew (not because of policies by the Kirchners), but it did grow. So it proofs you don't need debt, only good fundamentals and if you could add to those good policies even better.

    Argentina does not need your help or anyone's help. I don't want anyone's help. When you ask for help, you lose independence and self-respect. I rather be a little poorer and free than a little richer and a slave.

    It may be perverse, but that is why I do like the current situation of Argentina in financial markets.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Cestrian

    @60 - has Argentina recovered economically? The IMF has its doubts hence their 180 day request for financial transparency.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Falklands are British

    62 Cestrian

    No, I don't think their economy has recovered but their “published”figures indicate it is recovering. Like you suggest though: transparent figures may show a very different picture.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    @60

    Argentina will not pay it's debt back in full, that is what I was saying. Should it settle with the hold-outs? Sure, but my impression was that all of you were suggesting Argentina should “pay back” (you guys used that verb, and it means to return in full), 100% of the amount as it was prior to default. That has never happened in world history of modern finance, it won't happen now.

    The hold-outs at best should get 1% less than all those who did swap their debt. They should not get more, because then that would not be fair to those who accepted the terms (twice).

    And those that go to court, should get NOTHING if they lose. I think we can all agree on that.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Cestrian

    Tobias, whilst I understand what you are saying you stand alone in your policy. Have you ever heard of globalisation? Argentina does not operate in a bubble and needs the rest of the world.

    If you want a car you either save years for it, or walk, using your analogy. If you want to own a house you save for 40 years for it and die.

    Do you want to end up like North Korea and be an international pygmy because ultimately without international credit lines your country will end up a basket case.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Falklands are British

    64 Tobias

    Okay you've clarified that so I tend to agree slightly more with you now than before but not entirely.

    Tell me something though. What do you think the true figures will look like if the IMF and others get their way and reveals them?

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Yes, I'd rather end up like North Korea.

    But of course that would not be needed. I didn't say “we shouldn't trade”, I said “we shoudn't borrow”, if we could.

    Private citizesn should be allowed to borrow of course, that is their individual choice. But not the government.

    Borrowing from outsiders is a national security risk not worth it. Look at Europe and the USA, you guys may be richer than us and and have told me so here to my face, but you are subjects to middle eastern oil and chinese savings.

    And those two are the two main reasons both continents are mired in such a geo-political mess in the middle east, and in the future with China.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Cestrian

    @66

    I'll ask another question. what happens when the real figures come out and inflation is twice or three times what it has been stated as?

    “Acknowledging inflation rates upwards of 20 percent would increase interest due on Argentina’s inflation-indexed debt. Accordingly, government officials opt to mask inflation estimates , a move that saved an estimated $2.8 billion in 2010”.

    The simple answer to my question is that they face a bill of $2.8m immediately. no wonder they dont want the true figures to come out.

    @64 - Tobias I agree that the creditors will never get 100% back but at some point you will have to face the inevitable that you will have to pay some back and at that point it will all unravel. You could end up a bit like Greece in having some technocrat installed to run your country with a puppet government insitu.

    either way this doesnt look good for Argentina and it would be interesting to know how many of your countrymen know the shit you could shortly be in, or perhaps are already in.

    Your government by the way looks hopeless and totally incapable of efficiently and properly running your country as a functional democracy.

    Do you not have decent economists in Argentina advising the President?

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    @66

    What difference would it make? Everyone knows inflation is about 25-30%. Those are not the governments numbers (theirs is 10%), those are everyone elses (including those of some provinces who do their own index). So I doubt they are all wrong.

    GDP growth is real, that can't be faked. Because it would easily show in export/import volumes, consumer spending, but most fundamentally in jobs.

    If Argentina had not been growing, there would be 10-15% unemployment and major social dissatisfaction. So no, the GDP figures are genuine and no one disputes them (pro or anti government, and foreigners... even those suing Argentina use the GDP growth as an argument for us to pay).

    Argentina went through a depression only 10 years ago, so I always expected a nationalist, populist government would be strong in that immediate wake. If the economy enters recession under their watch, then the opposition points of view will be stronger again.

    If the amount is 2.8 billion, then that would be no problem for Argentina to pay, in a variety of ways. It could pay it in instalments and cut 500 million from the budget, it could use it's reserves, or it could stop subdisizing Aerolineas Argentinas and right there you have 2 billion annualy. A deal with the hold-outs and Paris Club is also quite doable.

    Argentina doesn't have a huge debt problem, that is not the issue. The issue is inflation and capital flight, and those are also not terriblly difficult problems, though pain will be needed to fix them, so the difficulty lies internally.

    Thus, there would be no need for a “puppet technocrat”, since we are not part of an entity like the EU, we are not under any loan program, and we have an independent currency and interest rate policy at disposal. We are not 200% in GDP to debt, and we can export our way out. Greece has none of those, unfortuantely for them.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Lord Ton

    Potty, Dotty and Mad - EU Aid :-)

    http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/potty-dotty-mad-eu-assistance-to-argentina/

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • shb

    @tobias

    You would find that if the sovereignty issue was dropped that the animosity you detect from British posters (myself included) would mostly dissipate. There are always going to be some people who just won't leave things alone however!

    I would not like to see Argentina go down the pan if it was a friendlier country to mine. A stable and prosperous Argentina at peace with the UK and the Falklands would be in our best interests.

    What has happened to Greece is apalling, but they have been living well beyond their means. That does'nt mean I don't feel sympathy for the Greeks that have had their livelihoods wrecked, because I do. They need to completely re-structure their economy in a sustainable way.

    The pity of our situation is that CFK and the more extreme malvinistas are making harder for your own folks to earn honest livings via trade and selling services to cruise ships. You could do without extra problems, so could we.

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 11:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Kiwisarg

    Interesting link!!
    http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1452566-el-gobierno-britanico-acusa-a-la-argentina-de-recurrir-a-la-confrontacion

    Feb 29th, 2012 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    Perhaps you should ask, what the people will get out of this, [nothing][truly][nothing]
    But what then will CFK get out of this,
    For a deluded woman that is ready and willing, to destroy her own country and economy, for a bit of rock, has much to gain, perhaps,
    The fact is, another time, another place, and we would be friends, and you guys would be flying the union jack, but that’s life,
    we can assure you, unless you are totally brain dead, Argentina will achieve precisely nothing,, but she will cause a lot of pain to her own people, and if you agree with that, then you deserved what you get,
    Argentina, will not get the islands, now or ever, no one is ever going to hand a free democracy, over to a dictatorship,
    ,,,,,,,,,,
    But to be fair to you argie bloggers, you HAVE achieved something,
    You have probably destroyed any hope of the Falklands ever excepting you,
    You have turned them against you, congratulations, here we are in the 21st century, and we are still plagued by wannabe doctorial empire builders.

    Mar 01st, 2012 - 12:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Frank

    ”For a deluded woman that is ready and willing, to destroy her own country and economy, ... (using)... a bit of rock......(as a diversion)'....while she and her cronies rob the country blind.........

    Mar 01st, 2012 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Lord Ton

    Mostly :-)

    http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/03/01/the-falklands-a-mostly-self-governing-territory/

    Mar 01st, 2012 - 01:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    So the EU cuts funding and considers sanctions. Why do the Argies consider this as negotiation on the Falklands?

    Argfaggotry is afoot.

    Mar 01st, 2012 - 08:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    Tobias,
    ln your post#40, you made a list of countries that got into financial difficulties & were bailed out.
    You say that Argentina was NOT bailed out or helped.
    WHY NOT?
    This is no trick question, nor am l questioning your data.
    But l want to know why Argentina was not helped, as you say.

    Mar 01st, 2012 - 10:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    Face facts people, you cannot negotiate with nazis. You couldn't negotiate with them in 1936, we certainly cannot negotiate with them now.

    Their ideology is fixed, the only question during their 'elections' is how very Nazi they want to be. Their core cultural values are Nazi, their heroes are Nazi, their whole belief structure is built around Nazism and importantly expansionism.

    If you think you can negotiate with that, you're an imbecile.

    Mar 01st, 2012 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Frank

    @78 I think you are being rather hard on the original Nazis

    Mar 01st, 2012 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @79 If the Hitler Youth and the Kirchner Youth Movements had a fight, who would win? I think the Kirchner youth movement would win on 'being white', but those Hitler Youth kids were kind of taller, and might be able to kick some butt.

    Mar 01st, 2012 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @77 I am not answering for tobias but two major factors were that the Argentine government did not meet any of the requirements and terms of the loans. They were a loose cannon and each time more money was released they promised much and did nothing to comply. When the economy was collapsing their finance minister had the ego the size of a planet and thought he could hold back the tide with one finger. He introduced random and foolish measures that drove the economy even further off course.

    Meantime, the IMF commissioned a report on the effects of forcing Argentina to default. Because of their inward-looking, protectionist policies the report basically said that there may be a little damage to Brazil but no real impact on the world economy. (Unlike other countries in trouble at the time).

    The combination of a government unwilling to listen and comply with the terms of their loans and the minimal impact outside of the country led to the IMF pulling the rug.

    Personally, I think they were wrong to do it. There is so much more that was going on at the time with Argentina being the poster child for bond traders making a mint. Ultimately it was a terrible thing to do to the people of a country. They paid the price for decades of mismanagement and bad government.

    Mar 01st, 2012 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @81 The argies made their bed, and now they're sleeping in it. I only feel sorry for the poor children who have to have decades more of underinvestment simply to perpetuate the corruption and groom Nestor's son for some dynastic presidency.

    It's always the children who suffer under these types of regime. Just look at Argentina's BFF North Korea where the kids have to dance around like clowns and then go home to shoe soup.

    Mar 01st, 2012 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Martin Woodhead

    We arnt negotiating worried or even thinking of punishing Argentina.
    Argentina is an annoying special needs child.

    It's behaving anti socially but you know it can't really help it.

    Mar 01st, 2012 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @81Elaine,
    Thank you.
    So in a nutshell, their goverment, not the ordinary people, brought it on them selves.
    And of course, now its everyones fault but theirs!
    Figures.

    Mar 02nd, 2012 - 09:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pepegalleta

    hey conqueror, we don t need anything from uk, but the workd want food and we make food, we don t really care about uk imports from Argentina, there are a lot countrys in the world that want Argentinian food.
    did I make my self clear?, we don t need Uk

    Mar 03rd, 2012 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    I agree with you totally. Argentine needs nothing from the UK and the UK needs nothing from the Argentine. You stop talking to us.....please, and we will stop talking to you. So, lets ignore each other and get on with our respective lives. In a nutshell, that is how to resolve disputes. Blissful silence.

    Mar 03rd, 2012 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @85 pepegalleta,
    Done deal.
    Hope never to hear from you again.
    Thank you, l'll stop my Spanish lessons now & brush up on my other more important languages.

    Mar 03rd, 2012 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redcoat

    @85 pepegalleta
    “we don t need anything from uk, but the world wants food and we make food”

    Not with your recent devastating drought you don't

    Mar 04th, 2012 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    How is it that in a world so hungry for the commodities Argentina can produce in quantity, they are still so deep in the sh*t.!

    Mar 04th, 2012 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pepegalleta

    PUGOL-h don t worry , is a matter of time, we in Argentina open the borders to help all latin america people, what europeans are g
    doing to help .Africans when all these poor people want to leave in Uk, DEPORTATION,
    Europe is a shitt

    Mar 04th, 2012 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redcoat

    @90 pepegalleta
    “don t worry , is a matter of time, we in Argentina open the borders to help all latin america people, what europeans are doing to help .Africans when all these poor people want to leave in Uk,”

    Time you haven't got and further you go down the harder it will be to recover, and where do you get your information from, Africans want to leave the UK? Are you insane

    Mar 04th, 2012 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pepegalleta

    no I am not insane, Europa closed the door for inmigration, I have family in Europa I know very well the situation, we in Argentina receive people from all latin america and europeans , people come to Argentina to study and to have a better live.
    Why we have British, Italians, Spain, poland, latin america and much more people for all aver the world, if Argentina is the worst country why all those people come to Argentina?

    Mar 04th, 2012 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #90
    I applaud your altruistic attitude. You have a huge land mass that could support the millions of Africans looking for a better life. Europe has run out of space to accommodate any more people. Argentina could be the USA of the 21st century “give me your poor and huddled masses” There are tens of millions of people in sub-Saharan Africa who would jump at your kind offer. I am sure they would receive a wonderful welcome in your paradise of a country.

    Mar 05th, 2012 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redcoat

    @92 pepegalleta
    “why all those people come to Argentina?”
    Who knows, probably because they are useless and no one else wants them?

    Mar 06th, 2012 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    92 pepegalleta

    I thought you were in America running your own business? So how come the “we in Argentina” comment?

    AND I thought you were not going to post on here again because everybody ridiculed you?

    Typical ex-pat Argie.

    Mar 06th, 2012 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pepegalleta

    redcoat
    you are a poor islander guy, I am better than you that is your problem.

    have fun in those boring islands

    Mar 06th, 2012 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redcoat

    @96 pepegalleta
    “you are a poor islander guy, I am better than you that is your problem have fun in those boring islands”

    Wrong again, I'm not an Islander; however I'm sure that when they are rich they will make the islands whatever they want. Which might be nothing, maybe plant a few thousand trees as it looks like 3 types can survive the conditions. (Just an idea)

    “ I am better than you that is your problem”

    Now I'm starting to feel sorry for you, maybe you're OK, but indoctrinated, like Jason Bourne in the Bourne Identity

    Mar 06th, 2012 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pepegalleta

    Redcoat you make me laugh, islanders rich?
    Ja Ja Ja
    as soon a single oul drop come out UK will charge the islands for deffence, may be 1% of the profit will go to the islanders
    again
    Ja Ja Ja

    Mar 06th, 2012 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    Well, pepe, that would be 1% that Argentina won't get! jajajajaja

    Mar 06th, 2012 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pepegalleta

    Nestor K in 2007 rejected a merge with Uk to the oil explotation, do you really think that Uk will not offert to share the oil to Argentina, I think you are naive about politicians, very naive.
    Plus as I told you before, without Argentina the oil in S Atlantic will be a very bad investment, the price to get it and to transport will be impossible to sell.
    but if you think you are right be happy,
    do you know the name SIDERCA, let me tell you, UK will need Siderca, is an Argentinian Corporation, check online about it.
    Plus as I told you, If Argentina doesn t open the ports for the oil vessels is plus supplies Uk will be in a lot of problems, you just don t want to face that Uk needs Argentina.
    be happy,
    One question with no affence ok, is always cold in the islands?, I am not trating to affend you, just want to know more about the islands

    Mar 07th, 2012 - 01:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Malvinero1

    But to be fair to you argie bloggers, you HAVE achieved something,
    You have probably destroyed any hope of the Falklands ever excepting you,
    You have turned them against you, congratulations, here we are in the 21st century, and we are still plagued by wannabe doctorial empire builders.
    And what do you do when the empire collapsed???Are they good to reverse that?I think uk is finished.....Just run for your life.....trust me....

    Mar 07th, 2012 - 04:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pepegalleta

    Well Malvinero, islanders will need to learn how to live under Argentinian administration that s it. May be this people in the islands are going to make more money with us than the UK. Without any offence what tbe hell UK does for yhe people in the islands more than put a military base, there is only 3000 and may be 300 more people down there , yungers want to life for ever in that way?
    I don t really think in that way.
    I hope one day all this mess stop without a new war, may be not next year but to me is a matter of time.

    Salute

    Mar 07th, 2012 - 06:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @100 pepegalleta,
    The Supertankers do not need to stop at Argentina.
    They can fill up in the Falklands then sail direct to their customers in Europe, North America or Asia.
    You miss out because Nestor K tore up the oil agreement.
    Now that wasn't very smart, was it?
    Argentina would have had a share, but Nestor wanted it all.
    Now you get nothing. Sad

    Mar 07th, 2012 - 09:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pepegalleta

    Will see, I am 100% sure that at the end of the day Uk will share the oil, you will see,

    Uk will be obligate to negociate the oil and after that the sovernigty

    Mar 07th, 2012 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redcoat

    @100 pepegalleta
    “do you really think that Uk will not offert to share the oil to Argentina, I think you are naive about politicians, very naive.”

    Argentina is not required at all, can’t you understand that, they have made themselves irrelevant.

    “One question with no affence ok, is always cold in the islands?, I am not trating to affend you, just want to know more about the islands”

    The Argentinians find it freezing, (British don’t) but if you are born somewhere (think Eskimo) it’s just right, but you are only desperately trying to make yourself feel better, about never getting your grubby little hands on the Falklands.

    @102 pepegalleta
    “Well Malvinero, islanders will need to learn how to live under Argentinian administration that s it…. to me is a matter of time.

    No they don’t, you arrogant little pinhead and you will die never seeing it.

    @104 pepegalleta
    Will see, I am 100% sure that at the end of the day Uk will share the oil, you will see,
    Uk will be obligate to negociate the oil and after that the sovernigty

    All you do is dream, nothing but dream, I’m 100% sure you will get nothing from the oil, because Argentina is treacherous and no one trusts them and they will never get sovereignty.

    Mar 07th, 2012 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pepegalleta

    Redcoat

    Did you visit the islands?, what people does?, I want to know more about the islands and the people there.

    Mar 07th, 2012 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    Never, ever get Sovereignty, pepe.
    And no oil for you, from us, anyway.

    Mar 08th, 2012 - 06:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redcoat

    @106 pepegalleta

    I haven't visited them yet, but the islanders are brave, industrious and friendly to all (accept Argentinians that say Malvinas) Also they all seem to have serveral jobs that they do very well.
    But the one thing to remember if you ever visited is that, you are first held down and then a Union Flag is branded on your forehead, just to make sure you fully understand they will never be Argentinian.

    Mar 08th, 2012 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pepegalleta

    redcoat
    First of all Happy day to all woman in this world, today is the international woman day.
    Now, islanders and Argentinians need to start to be more open, let s put an example, if something happen( hope nothing happen ever) like a natural disastre, Tzunani or it doesn t matter the cause, Argentina is the near land and will be the first to help. Islandres are like Argentinias agresive , something need to change, I understand the situation, remember I am jewish, I know what it is to be and feel persued.
    If nothing change, there is gonna be a new war in the future, can br in 10 years but is gonna happen,
    Are you in London?, how life goes in Lindon?
    Here in California is a taft time, jobs, money, healtcare, a lit of problems going on here.

    Salute

    Mar 08th, 2012 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    109 pepegalleta

    So let me get this right:

    You are an Argentine Jew, educated in an American university, living in America with your own business?

    Then why is the use of English, even the bastartdized american version, so alien to you?

    No, I think you are just an Aegie, living out a dream of what it would be like to escape the shit-hole you presently live in and leave Argentina once and for all.

    Mar 08th, 2012 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redcoat

    @109 pepegalleta
    “If nothing change, there is gonna be a new war in the future, can br in 10 years but is gonna happen”

    We'll be waiting for you.

    Mar 08th, 2012 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    Hope it happens before l get too old. lol

    Mar 08th, 2012 - 10:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pepegalleta

    Isolde
    Don t wait for me, I don t give my life for any causa, I am not a army guy, wait for an army, can the islands deffence without the british army? or you are a subdito of the quern and ready to give your life for land?. The only thing that I fight is my family, it doesn t matter whi but if you or somebody else touch my family be ready to by a cementery place to rest, but not for land

    have fun

    Mar 08th, 2012 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redcoat

    @113 pepegalleta

    The islanders wouldn't have to fight on their own, you know that, the British would welcome a easy fight as a rest, from the one going on in Afghantstan

    You change your arguement like the dodgy lawyer and always you have get in the vailed threat

    Mar 09th, 2012 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @113 pepegalleta,
    lf you won't give your life for your cause then you don't believe in your cause.
    Do you want the Brazilians or the Venezuelans to invade the Falklands & do your dirty work for you?
    lf you're not a malvinista then get away from these blogs.
    And please, don't make threats.
    How very Argentine.

    Mar 09th, 2012 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pepegalleta

    Isolde you better shut up, who the hell do you think you are, who told you that you have the right to order me or even suggest something to me?, jeep your noise in your business you are a waste of time, less than a ratt.
    don t even try to talk to me p,,,of Sh,,,.
    Grow up , I don t see you with a fusil, coward.
    If Malvinas is your cause go and retake thd islands, people like you only talk to much, but ate cowards like rats. Talk, talk , talk and the worst yhing is that your talking is bullshit

    Mar 09th, 2012 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redcoat

    @116 pepegalleta
    You are showing your true colours

    And what are you on about, Isolde doesn't have to RE-TAKE the islands, they are already in the hands of their rightful owners now?

    And haven't you noticed, it's you that is Talk talk talk, whereas Isolde makes very good points.

    Mar 09th, 2012 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pepegalleta

    Why, if I think different what is the problem?, do I have to be obligated to think insame way? who has the right to obligate me to share ans think like the rest

    Mar 09th, 2012 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redcoat

    @118 pepegalleta
    No one is questioning your right to an apposiing opinion? But if that opinion is wrong, then people will tell so.
    And you are also getting annoyed to be told you are wrong as if they have no right to.
    Think about it:
    This is what Argentina's does, they get you all worked up over the Falklands, something they know you will never get, so they can forever divert your attention off your country's problems.
    Think about it

    Mar 09th, 2012 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pepegalleta

    Redcoat, like every one here I can be righr or wrong, I am not perfect like every one, about Argentina, I am in US sinve 95 and the razon way I left is becouse of the differents governments and economic inestability that come with every government in Argentina, plus I don t like peronistas governments, but is the party that rules Argentina, the opositors are incapables to fight agains peronistas, but I will not let anybody here is insultme like greekyoughurt, he told me that I cultural parasite becouse I am in US.
    I am not here to fight with anybody but if somebody talk to me in agressive way I will answer in the same way. I respect every body, remember when I made a mistake to you I asked for apologise,
    If I am here is to learn how people from the islands think and feel.

    Mar 09th, 2012 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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