MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands open to UN referendum to decide whether Islanders want to remain British
“The Falklands are British, we have all the rights over the Islands plus the Islanders want to be British” said Governor Nigel Haywood who did not discard a UN sponsored referendum so that Islanders can decide on their future. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesGreat job colonial Governor Haywood , Estonia, (Basra)Iraq and now Malvinas.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 05:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do you ever get elected? Where are you going next, back to Surrey?
Maybe he'll stand for the job of President of the independent Falkland Islands ?
Mar 29th, 2012 - 05:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0marcos has gone all bitchy because he cant argue that the guy is being fair and open.....not your style is it Marcos?
Mar 29th, 2012 - 06:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are fundementally selfish in your attitude to the falklands and show no signs of understanding, grace, compassion, care or diplomacy. To sum up you are an ignoramous, better put to use swinging idly from a tree and sucking the fleas out of your malvinist friends armpits.
A reasonable response to Argentine aggression. They put so much stock into non binding accords so lets see their leaders response to this. Being called on your bulls pizzle isn't so much fun.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 06:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Apparently the Islanders that have lived there for nearly 200 years have no say in the lands.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 06:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0It seems Argentina has a complete disregard for human rights although nobody should be surprised with its history of abusing human rights.
I think this would be best described as Argentinian Imperialism.
the key words in his diatribe are “in case the UN ask them to do so”
Mar 29th, 2012 - 07:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Keep dreaming.....
Holzkopf galarga,
Mar 29th, 2012 - 07:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0You still dont get it do you??? Nothing is changing in the UN to support the RG claim.....nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wooohoooo! Fuck all you malvinist arse bandits
@7 and where does this Nigel muppet get that the UN might support a referendum in Malvinas?
Mar 29th, 2012 - 07:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0I dont think he said that
Mar 29th, 2012 - 07:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0he said “in the case that may ask them too”
Didnt say whether they actual would ask them or whether they would support the referendum.
Go to bed and get up again!
The numpty is hoping they ask him to...
Mar 29th, 2012 - 07:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0what an idiot.
that will never happen
go get laid and then return
Go Nigel Haywood!!!
Mar 29th, 2012 - 08:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Come on Falkland Islanders!!!
This is what Argentina needs!! a Lesson in how the real world operates!! a lesson in how a people have the right to choose their own future!! Oh this could not be better!! It is happening right under KFC's nose and there is f**k all she or any Argentinian can do about it. It is brilliant. I am loving this so much.
Good luck all you guys down there, good luck and god bless.
Lots of love
The U.K
@10
Mar 29th, 2012 - 08:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, a democratic referendum on the subject will never take place because you know the outcome and would never respect that outcome. You wont go to the ICJ because you also know what the outcome of that would be.
Spot on statement from the Falklander BTW.
Holzkopf galarga,
Mar 29th, 2012 - 08:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just got laid :-) very relaxed now :-) That was one of your better ideas!
I dont think he is hoping they ask, i think he is trying to illustrate openess, but also still sticking firm to the self determination thing!
@Helber - Actually the key words in his statement are ”If that was to be the case, under UN sponsorship, “Argentina could come over and distribute pamphlets and be part of an informative campaign”.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 08:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0That my ignorant german friend, is a clear invitation to argentina, if argentina accept then the UN with have to be involved to ensure the referendum is done according to law and is open and fair, and argentina will be allowed to go to the islands to promote their side of the arguement and what it would mean and be like as part of argentina. If however, argentina were to refuse, then it would show to the whole world just how little consideration argentina has for human rights and how little they care about the islanders themselves, which would leave the world asking just what argentina would do with the islanders and the islands if they did get them back as, as its likely considering their show of lack of consideration for the islanders rights that argentina would abuse the islanders rights if they ever did get their hands on the islands.
Therefore that 1 sentence, although subtle, is a very powerful diplomatic statement and puts the ball now firmly in argentinas court as well as the whole worlds eyes firmly now on argentina awaiting to see argentinas response. If argentina refuse, then the game is up for argentina its that simple, no matter how much they carry on crying, screaming anf shouting about it.
Kartoffelkopf Galarga,
Mar 29th, 2012 - 08:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0In the words of your leader, 'seig heil, seig heil'. However in the UK we have democracy, and given that under the internationally recognised legal principle of uti possidetis we own the islands, we supported the people of the islands in their trip to self-governance, their quest for independence and the opportunity to offer the UN a referendum if needed.
It's got nothing to do with you argtards, so just put your machismo back into your lady-panties.
Get over it, we all did (and we beat you at war).
@14
Mar 29th, 2012 - 08:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Absolutely spot on.
Time for a referendum under the control of the UN with as you say Argentine participation. The result should be interesting. LOL.
@16 I concur. I think the UN should bother to learn something about the islands and run a decisive referendum.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 08:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0The argtards will hate the idea of course, because they want the islanders genocided.
14 Teaboy2
Mar 29th, 2012 - 09:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well said Sir, could not be much clearer than that, though, the pro-Malvanists will continue to suit themselves no doubt and we will be no further forward. The only difference now is that they have no credibility left in the tank and are basically running on hot air! His Excellency has said the right things and called their bluff...will it be 'once and for all'?
@15,16,17 and 18.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 09:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think we all know, considering how ignorant and arrogant argentina is, that they will either not respond to the invitation at all (to dumb to realise it was an subtle open invitation). Or they will respond aggressively and point blank refuse to it, thereby showing the world their true views on human rights and just how two faced they are about supporting human rights as they like to claim and preach to the world.
Great plan!! let the UN decide if they have the right to self determination. have it decided once and for all ( well prob not)
Mar 29th, 2012 - 09:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well said!
“The world is going in one direction and at times it seems like we're going to the opposite, blah, blah, blah,” she said.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://mendozasun.com/business-a-finance/national/1540-argentina-holds-up-book-imports-to-help-industry
In an era of globalisation it seems as though the RG's dont want to join the party. This regime will set the RG's back decades. It is now pretty clear that the President is building up a dictatorship in RG Land and her son will be next in line to take over.
the Falkland Islands issue will remain an issue forever and a day because it is a means by which the dictator in power controls and manipulates the general population.
a second north Korea in the making?
@21 It's already like North Korea, and the ideologies are similar, so why not!
Mar 29th, 2012 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Falkland Islanders have as much right to self-determination as the population of the viceroyalty did in 1810. Seems rather convenient for the malvinistas to deny that right to the population of the Falkland Islands. It is the inalienable right of the population of the Islands to decide if they want to be independent, remain British or become Argentine. Argentina just does not get it. Persuade the Falklanders with the benefits not bully them with blockades and lies.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 09:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not long until the 30th Anniversary of the Invasion and then only 74 days until the anniversary of the Islands' liberation. I am sure the Islanders and the rest of Britain will show the Argies how to commemorate the Falklands War with respect and not the jingoistic political drivel that is sure to come from the nationalistic drama queen of Argentina.
I think a referendum is just a bit too much of a diplomatic solution for some Argentines to accept.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentinian government has no interest in the people of the FI and what there desires are - They would happily transport them all back to the UK if it meant getting their hands of the FI.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0If they were smart and wanted to be taken seriously they would make the offer for the Falkland Islander's to retain their British citizenship whist the islands come under Argentinian control similar to Hong Kong. This would at least make them appear reasonable to those who have no real understanding of the countries history.
This would put the UK government on the defensive and they would need to be proactive in educating regional powers about the history of The FI - explaining that Argentina have as much claim to the Islands as France, spain or the USA.
I personally would find this approach incredibly gauling considering their claim to the Islands is based on a loose interpretation of history and the locality - but it's something the UN would lap up and Argentina would be congratulated for appearing to be 'negotiating'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Timeline_of_de_facto_control_of_the_Falkland_Islands
Unfortunately for Argentina, the government of the day is only able to see as far as the next election rather than the generations to come.
The simple fact is that until Argentina stop beating the drum they're P***ing against the wind. their continual presuurising of latin American neighbours only serves to help the UK cause and make them look like a regional bully.
So far we have had ministers from peru and more recently Uruguay making denials and/or back tracking - This is based on simple statement released by the British government or reports (trade delegation - in the case of uraguay) leaked to the media.
UK PLC hasn't even started to turn the screws and this Argentinian problem is now causing problems for their neighbours - how appreciative do you think the governments of those countries are going to be.
Self-determination? Islanders already hold British citizenship.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Self-determination is for those who do not have any other place to live but where they are standing. For them self-determination is the ONLY alternative.
The island colonist, on the other hand, already have a citizenship.
talk about wanting to have your cake an eat it.
26 Helber Galarga
Mar 29th, 2012 - 10:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0I assume that is a rule or precedent you just made up to suit your claims? Care to quote international law or UN principles to back that up?
@26
Mar 29th, 2012 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0You dont understand this do you?
The Falklands are what is known as a British Overseas Territory. That's because they choose to be. Like any BOT they can decide whether they wish to remain British or be something else - at any time. That's because they are Lord and Master of their own destiny but as a BOT receive certain rights such as the right to have the UK defend them and assist with foreign policy.
Under the UN Charter - Chapter 1 - Article 1 - Point 2 - all people's of the world have the right of self determination - no matter what. Read it:
http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter1.shtml
This really isnt very hard.
@26 so you believe the Scottish have no right to self determination and you disagree with the Scottish referendum.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am not Scottish butI believe they have every right to decide their own destiny.
You have no understanding of the British.
The white population of the viceroyalty came from Spain so based on your argument their self determination under the Revolution of 1810 was illegitamate as they could simply return to Spain. Self determination refers to peoples and not your argument. The Falkland Islanders are a people established over 200 years. They are not English, Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish. They are Falkland Islanders.
@29
Mar 29th, 2012 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0The problem that the RG's have is that they do not regard the Falklanders as “people”. Wasnt it The Tin Man who last week referred to the Falklanders as “rocks”?
they deny that the Falklanders even exist on the one hand then claim on the other that they are an oppressed people who are being kept on the islands by force.
You just cant talk or negotiate anything with people like the Rg's so it isnt even worth trying until they change their ways, which they show no signs of doing, other than getting even worse on the issue.
@3 brit abroad,
Mar 29th, 2012 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't insult our friends, the monkeys.
They are much further along the evolutional scale than stupid malvinistas. lol
@30
Mar 29th, 2012 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Agreed, it's the Islands the Argentinian government wants and they have made it clear that they consider the people on the islands secondary to this claim.
This is why i believe an Argentinian government will eventually try and come to some sort of lease deal. The FI and the British government need to make sure that any referendum that does take place makes clear the population wish for the FI to remain British rather than the population to remain British.
If the latter is offered in a vote then it leaves the Argentinian government wiggle room to continually claim the Islands with the offer of it's inhabitants retaining their nationality.
Of course all this is hypothetical because the Argentinians will never agree to allowing the UN to conduct a referendum - to do this would mean they would have to abide by the result!
So Argentina will either ignore this or they will say something in response.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am interested to speculate what that response might be. How will it be worded? I wonder.
Not that it would matter either way. There is already a legal and binding UN framework dealing with this and an advisory body challenging the framework and I think I know which one the malvinistas support. I know this because they ignore the binding framework in its entirety.
I think that this means that Argentina is half likely to accept the FI referendum proposal and simply ignore the results if they are not in Argentinas favour. Either that or spend an eternity arguing that the polls were rigged.
No I don't think it will work. What we need to do is invest and make FI self sufficient. If Argentina wants to throw its dummy out of the cot the best thing FI can do is work around the problem. It will be hard and initially it will be expensive but ultimately worth it.
The only difference between this Argentine government and a tantrum toddler is that if Argentina do lash out we will be justified to hit back very hard. But it won't come to that ether will it? Because KFC is the Princess of Peace and love and means no harm to anybody. Bless.
Argentina would never allow this. They are just too scared that the result (almost certainly) won't go their way. Also, they don't recognise the islander's self-determination so even if it did happen the Argies would continue their claim anyway.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do the Falkland Islanders not invite not invite Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu and the other Nobel Laureates to the Islands to see for themselves. Desmond Tutu is 80 and he said he had retired from public life.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The question of ownership is very very murky. It seems that both sides have a “legitimate” claim. However, the cultures are radically different and this must be taken into account.
No doubt I will have the muck hurled at me from both sides. People have become far too emotional now and blood pressures are rising rapidly.
There are so many conflicting stories as to who got to the islands first.
Of course oil is a mitigating factor. Who does notwant to own this resource when the price is US$ 125/Brent crude.
@34 BritishguyfromLondon (#)
Mar 29th, 2012 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mar 29th, 2012 - 12:03 pm
Apologies but to say that Argentina will never allow this is like saying Argentina has a choice.
Of course they have a choice. They can choose to accept or refute the results but they don't have a choice about what FI decides. That is up to FI, not Argentina and ultimately not the UK either.
If C.F.K and the other members of her Government knew anything..anything at all about the character of us British people? she would realize that she is getting it all wrong,wrong, wrong recurring. It is not in our nature to stand idly by and watch her tread all over the Falklanders. The people living there are a little people, “underdogs” if you like, but they are British!! and as such can punch well above their
Mar 29th, 2012 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0weight. Personally I believe (and pray) that this latest episode will not descend into the scenario of the old (of which I am one 66 years of age) of both Britain and Argentina sending their young men and women to war whilst we sit comfortably at home Thumping our chests telling each other what Bravery! what Glorious deeds! are being wrought on our behalf. The thought of that makes me nauseous beyond imagination. My best wishes for Falklands Friday, Ted Cole
Well a referendum would be welcome and the Argentines can come over and put their point of view to everyone. And when the islanders insist they want to remain part of our culture that should in theory be the end of the matter once and for all.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However, we all know that Argentina would not agree to anything like that, they are a country with no honour a country that would renegade on any decision, so a referendum would be both a waste of time and pointless.
So it’s best just to ignore them completely and just wait for the inevitable invasion that will come in a few years’ time were once again they will get a good kicking. It’s best to isolate Argentina from the rest of the world that's what the British Government should be concentrating on isolating them, blockading them and screwing them until they squeak.
I am sure that the rest of South America would like the total demise of this silly country that they call Argentina, and with our help this can happen, everyone in the area then can take rich pickings from a country that is rich in agriculture and natural resources that Argentina seems incapable of doing.
This is evident that neather haywood, nor cameron imagened how rediculous they were going be, when they called argentina colonialist. Per haps, both forgot that before 1833, the islands were nobody's colony, our government was starting to exercise it's rights which were based on the sussession of states, i have a lot of information in my survey about it, the nation that became the islands into a colony was actually the u. k., when the 3rd oj janory of 1833, the british frigate called clio, commanded by john onslow forced our authorities to leave the islands and lower the argentine flag.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 02:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have always said that as long as the u. n doesn't invoke the right to self determination for the population from the islands, like it did with others colonial situations, argentina will be able to keep on claiming for the islands.
What haywood is doing is what all the mediocre politicians do, he is telling just the half of the question that is convenient for him.
It's true that the right to self determination is included in the charter of the u. n, but what he omits is that, neather the charter of the u. n, nor the resolution 1514, accept that a colonial situation to break the territorial integrity of a country. I have always recommeded you to read resolution 2353 that reffers the gibraltar question, and you'll know what's the true posture of the u. n regarding the relevancy of territorial integrity. On the other hand, haywood doesn't tell that in 1985, the u. k. tried to include twice references about self determination for this cause, and the international comunity voted mostly against those proposals, the malvinas-falkland cause has always been considered like a special colonilal situation, i recommend you also to read the statements by the councellours of the assembly from the islands before the decolonization committee, where they complain about this situation, and because it doesn't apply the principle of self determination for this cause. There is a lot more to argue.
@39
Mar 29th, 2012 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You simply dont get this do you?
The Falkland Islanders have the right of self determination. I'd actually suggest that even if history is on the side of the UK, which it clearly is, that even this matters nowhere near as much as the rights of the people who live there to determine their own future.
Its just not going to happen for Argentina ie get the Falklands. You really do need to forget about it and move on.
Well folks, if you want to see what the problem is you only have to look at the likes of axel arg @ 39 for the answer!
Mar 29th, 2012 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would not matter if the UN arranged for a referendum, even if Argentina agreed to it not that the cowardly bastards would anyway, because WHEN it went against them they would deny everything.
Everything to do with honour (such as a UN anything) automatically disavows any participation by the Argentinian government.
Unless and until the present lot leave or die in a civil war, etc. the British are wasting their time.
What questions will be in the referendum?
Mar 29th, 2012 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyone any idea?
Argentina has no desire or capacity to start another falklands war - http://tinyurl.com/dxno4y9 - For the record its an argentinian site so those that do not know spanish will need to use google translate to be able to read. Whats interesting is the argentine posters comments about their own country heres one for example
Mar 29th, 2012 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Braian Cerrito
I think this happens, maybe by the ignorance of politics in our country, that instead of improving and have a more organized country, always prefer to fill their pockets, maybe if we were smarter today the island would be ours and would avoid these things. ”
@34 BritishGuyFromLondon
Mar 29th, 2012 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has described islanders as a non-people (even though they've existed longer than Argentina itself) so they will say they are not interested. It is their only way of bypassing this referendum.
Argentina loves the Falklands with a passion, hate the islanders with a passion too and certainly hate the UK. It seems that this train of thought of lost ownership of the Falklands goes back through time but it is a myth cooked up by fairly recent successive oppressive governments (certainly not 200 years of complaint and wailing and gnashing of teeth).
The islanders will never vote for Argentine sovereignty but give it 500 years with the Spanish tongue and Catholicism starting to become world leaders, then it might just change... unless the Falklands succumb to global warming!
And so we see, once again, the typical belligerent, predatory, psychotic, mendacious argie attitude. Let's start with Margo (the big nance) @1. Governor Heywood is an “official”. He doesn't get elected, he gets posted.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But then, starting @6, we have the comments of the brainwashed half-breed whose great, great, great, great grandmother got raped to produce him. His first comment can be ignored. Hadn't taken his meds! But then @8 he asks a question. A stupid question. It says, in the article, “in case the UN ask them to do so”. How does this give rise to his question about “support”? It's a fairly simple matter for a supposedly democratic international organisation dedicated to world peace. It says “Let's ask the people.” The Islanders say “We'll go along with that. Argies can even supply a stock of pamphlets that people can read if they want to. They can't travel round the Islands freely because they are well-known spies and invaders and they can't be given the opportunity to collect names and addresses and make threats.” How difficult is that for rational people to understand? But then @26, the muppet really excels himself. “Islanders already hold British citizenship.” he says. Thereby admitting that he attacks British citizens. But wait, wasn't there a baby born recently in Antarctica? Wasn't this hailed as the first argie baby? How come. All territorial claims are suspended. Does this baby have Antarctic citizenship? Where's the Antarctic government? Or is he admitting that you have the citizenship you want, irrespective or where you are? In other words, self-determination. And then we come to the self-declared “teacher”. Short of two brain cells to rub together. Despite having been told innumerable times, he can't bring 1765 or even 1690 into the picture. He talks about “succession of states” even though his “state” was a rebel colony not recognised by its parent. His “state” didn't exist. But then he's a loony wannabe!
There are scores of hundreds of British subjects already living in Argentina, their greater numbers being 2nd, 3rd and even 6th generation here, whose offspring have dual nationality, so the islands' population would not add much to it. Anglo's speech is very similar to that of the islands in that their English almost did not change with the times and uses words as 'camp' for countryside or farm, so they will understand each other.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Malvinas/Falklands islanders can choose to remain British and live where they live, own the houses, shops and land they own now or in future, attend to the church of their choice, speak whatever language they want to speak, and these islands, as well as the South Georgias, S. Shetlands, S.Sandwich and every surfacing rock of enough size for a petrel to land on it, will still be not British but Argentinian.
We may not be always on the same sides or think alike, but we can be friends.
Cheers!
Argie aka 'the brainwashed wizard'
@46 “There are scores of hundreds of British subjects already living in Argentina, their greater numbers being 2nd, 3rd and even 6th generation here, whose offspring have dual nationality, so the islands' population would not add much to it.”
Mar 29th, 2012 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And those of british decent 2n, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and so on generation, do not have dual nationality unless they gained citizenship in british territory by which they must live there for a fixed period of time. So your talking bollocks, as by your logic that would make all argentines of spanish decent having duel argentine and spanish nationality, yet i bet none have a spanish passport of spanish citizenship, just like none of the british decendant argentines do not have british passports or british citizenship either.
Yes the islanders can choose to remain british, but point is they can also choose british sovereingty or independence over that or argentine sovereignty too. So you talking a load of crap.
THE CESTRAIN. CHRIS R.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you are so sure that only one solution for this conflict, is the application of self determination for this cause, then answer me why the u. n never applied that principle for this dispute, like it did with others colonial situations?, why when the u. k. proposed arg. to take the dispute of the dependencies from the islands to the i. c. j in 1947, it didn't include the malvinas-falklands in the proposal, after that year, none of the two parts proposed again to take the question to the court. On the other hand, betwen 1884 and 1888, arg. suggested taking the case to the arbitration, which was rejected by the u. k. I dont deny that per haps self determination is perfectly applicable for the population from the islands, but i have serious doubts about that, and if you would have unless one line of intellectual honesty, you shouldn't buy so easily what politicians say, because they always tell only what is convenient for them and omit important information, we must be more inteligent and investigate, like i did, that's the diference btwen you and i, per haps i am wrong with my assertions, but unless i investigate and provide arguments that are based on academic knowledge, you just parrot what your politicians say, and dont do any critic for their behaviour.
@46 Does anyone even know why you Argtards think you own South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands? Is this just something you dreamed up in a Le Camping delusion of lebensraum? Care to enlighten us?
Mar 29th, 2012 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Either way, all the argtard logic ever seems to do is make it clear why they should never have been allowed to genocide all the first nations people and steal their land.
Having some illogical guy with no moral compass in a mullet tell you he wants your land, is not reason to let him anywhere near your land.
new lyrics for ian browns f.e.a.r here goes,for england argentina repugnant,gonna sing that now
Mar 29th, 2012 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Scheisskopf Teaboy2. It is you who talks crap. My 34 y.o. Argentine stepson (currently in Shabunda on WHO mission) has a fully valid British Passport, his Argentine father too, his Argentine grandfather had it while it lived and, btw, he was a decorated war heroe who landed as a volunteer in the first wave at Omaha beach, and there's even a RN ship bearing his name since.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Being British (you'd get life gooseskin if you knew the huge number of people who can call themselves 'British') is not a passport to universal knowledge, but rather a responsibility to open your ears more than your mouth, and learn first.
Best,
The wild brainwashed wizard
Perhaps some of the Argentinian posters can help me out? Why have Argentina never taken their case to the UN International courts of justice for a ruling on the Falkland Islands.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Surely the UN will be in a position to decide once and for all. If the UK chooses not to abide by the UN's decision then can only add credibility to the Argentinian cause.
If the ICJ fall in your favour, the falklands become Argentinian.
If you lose, you can ignore it as per usual!
Win Win for Argentina
@39 axel arg
Mar 29th, 2012 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm afraid you are wrong my friend.
Gibraltar like the FI could become an independent nation. The UN believe it is the solution in both cases, and would fully support both. As these links prove..
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Consensus_on_Gibraltar_by_the_UN_Committee_of_24_in_1964
Consensus on Gibraltar by the UN Committee of 24 in 1964
'The Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Territories and Peoples, after considering the situation in the Non-Self-Governing Territory of Gibraltar and hearing statements by the representative of the administering Power and the representative of Spain and by petitioners from the Territory and from Spain, affirms that the provisions of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples are fully applicable to the Territory of Gibraltar.'
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Consensus_on_Gibraltar_by_the_UN_Committee_of_24_in_1964
Question of Gibraltar
'The General Assembly,
Having considered the question of Gibraltar,
Having studied the chapters of the reports of the Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples relating to Gibraltar,
Having heard the statements made in the Fourth Committee,
1. Invites the Governments of Spain and of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to begin without delay the talks envisaged under the terms of the consensus adopted on 16 October 1964 by the Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples;
2. Requests the two Governments to inform the Special Committee and the General Assembly, at its twenty-first session, of the outcome of their negotiations.'
he was a decorated war heroe who landed as a volunteer in the first wave at Omaha beach, and there's even a RN ship bearing his name since.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A Argie yank with a Royal Navy ship named after him, ive not heard of a HMS Münchausen
agreed
Mar 29th, 2012 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0very good point.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2012/0326/1224313893814.html
Mar 29th, 2012 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If our military government, led by a drunkard General, had not re occupied Malvinas, the islands would have been soon sold to us by the Conservatives, with a compromise of renting them to the UK for some time, after which the islands would have been handed back to us.
But our landing of battle troops fired national British honour in motion to stop us at any cost, Maggie made of this a matter of survival so changed sides immediately and raised the flag of sovereingty again. I cannot but understand her: one thing is to hand out and quite another to be kicked out.
This is perhaps why our mothers educate us into not drinking too much alcohol.
@52 You mention the Argentinians taking the issue to the UN ICJ/ICA, but...
Mar 29th, 2012 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentinians wanted to take the Falklands to arbitration several times typically with the Pope as arbitrator but the UK refused for obvious biased-pope reasons and because there was no need. The UK then offered to go with the Argentinians to the ICJ/ICA concerning the South Georgia and the South Sandwhich islands. The Argentinians refused to go 4 times and then the 5th time the UK went unilaterally, at this point the Argentinians announced that the UN and ICJ/ICA have no jurisdiction over Argentina. In 1982 the Argentinians ignored the UN Security Council's very own binding resolutions (UNSCR 502,505) clearly showing that they do not abide by the UN and their resolutions. Argentina is held in contempt by several US courts for not abiding by decisions and also the ICSID which is part of the World Bank.
The fact the Argentinians and their poor cronies now say they want the UK to discuss the falklands under the UN framework is just ludicrous. The UK as a member of the Security Council follows UN resolutions, Argentina follows none.
In addition the UK doesn't get involved in anything that happened before 1973 at the ICJ because let's face it, it's past history.
Hope this explains why the ICJ is an unlikely option.
@48 It's easy, dumbass. Britain doesn't argue with psychotics. It tends to imply that the psychotics aren't. Have you come up with any FACTS yet, psychotic? Survey? In your psychotic dreams.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 054. Har, har. I'm not the Baron, never implied the ship was given my name and I have never heard of a boat named HMS Fool Britannia. You better watch this and low your blood pressure down.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=en&v=FFZYV7ju2oA&gl=US
They freaked out ...
Mar 29th, 2012 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My advice to islands to be English not British.
RG's, as mad as a box of frogs:
Mar 29th, 2012 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/sports/2011/06/22/soccer-mad-church-worhips-diego-maradona-as-god/?intcmp=obinsite
Back to the subject, what do people think the UN referendum question would ask?
Mar 29th, 2012 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm thinking something like
I would like the Falkland Islands sovereignty to be ...
1. British - to remain a British Overseas Territory.
2. Argentinian - as part of the Argentine Republic .
3. Independent - as a new sovereign nation.
CFK and Tinpotman are not going to like Nigel’s comments.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However they need to get used to them, as they are going to be hearing a lot more of that sort of thing in the future.
Comment removed by the editor.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0-- VETO --powered Nigel.Haywood.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0what a cheap theatre............!
Dear all,
Mar 29th, 2012 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0well i am an Indian reading all this, what is written there. it is intresting to know, still you people are taking about fight and all. only once think about the people and familes of those have alredy lost their life and loved one in Iraq, afganistan, even pakistan and so onn list is increaseasing.
my question to you all intelligent group of minds, how many more lifes do you people want to sacrifice on the name of politics and politicians ?
please before taking about fight go and meet any relative of a person who has lost life in this on going new so called power game of the control over one another land.
why ??????????? if please you all can think then please spare one minute and reply whyyyyy fight ????????? and what will be the result after fight ????? what diffrence did happen in Iraq or afganistan or anywhere else where this so called ego driven hate driven acts follwed ????
The day the Islanders want to join Argentina is the day I'll support it. They won't though. Why? Because fuck Argentina, that's why.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0still waiting for perfect calm mind reply with facts :)
Mar 29th, 2012 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0anyyyyyyyyy oneeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ?????????????
@66 Deeepak
Mar 29th, 2012 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You make good points.
But it is Argentina who want the fight, and they who make all the noise, if they dropped their claim there would be no tension, no more wars.
Remember they are the ones started the war 30 years ago with an illegal invasion, and it is Argentina who would rule the Falkland Islanders against their will or even deport them.
Come on Argentina, what is all this talk? You know, I know, most every one knows, the Falkland islanders don't want anything to do with Argentina. Lets face it. If the decision is either to be associated with the British, or associated with Argentina it seem very simple to me. Why on earth would anyone with the smallest amount of common sense choose a country like Argentina? Argentina has very little to offer, is antagonistic, is a third world country, and going backwards, when compared to the British. I don't mean to be rude, but who would want you? - Millet USA
Mar 29th, 2012 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@66
Mar 29th, 2012 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You must remember that the UK are happy with the current situation. If it wasnt for the Argentines crying about this issue no one would know that the Falklands were in the South Atlantic.
It is to Buenos Aires that you must look to for a solution to what for the UK is a non issue.
68 Deepak
Mar 29th, 2012 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree with you and I don't really believe anyone wants to see a war. The people on here who say they want to see a war have had no taste of war directly.
I am British and a Falkland Islander and I definitely don't want to see a war. The issue is nowhere near as big as this site would lead you to believe. After the key 30th anniversary dates of the war pass it will all fade down again.
The people living in the Falklands currently have done so for 180 years plus and their right to self-determination is assured.
The superior military garrison in the Falklands is not a signal that the UK wishes to go to war. It is the guarantee that there will be no war.
68. Deepak. Look man, why don't you leave and come again next year?
Mar 29th, 2012 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing will have changed.
Each one here believes he's got the truth and no other in the room has a glimpse of it.
They're all wrong: I'm the only pukka here.
Cheers!
@73
Mar 29th, 2012 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK is right and RG Land is wrong.
You know that, i know that and we all know that. If it werent for the fact that Fat Max is paying the RG's to be on here the RG's would have disappeared from this forum long ago.
I guess that the RG's do as La Campora says - or else you get no money and you will be hunted down in the streets of BA.
Cheers!
The sensible solution would be for the Falkland Islands to take over and administer Argentina. The Argentines would get the unity they are so obsessed with and be much better governed as well.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you all those appreciated me and peace.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0well this seems like a political game of governments all over the world. those are facing the problem of unemployment, many social problems and corruption and price hike each day and many other things.
just to distract the attention of people from the ground realities and day to day problem or to gain political benefits. they throw time to time these type of issues which can create mobilization of groups or people, no matter UK or Argentina or any other country all political class all over the world is making common man fool in this way only. and yes people get carried away in these issues and forget to cornet the Governments on the problems what we are facing each passing days in day to day Life. This is called politics throw a issue which can spark big debate then the real existing one and keep on working in your own way. poor is getting poorer, rich is becoming richer. and common middle class man is every passing day finding big hole in his pocket.
wake upppppp get over this all crap and stop being tapped in the all games. think about a better peaceful world where everyone have food to eat and a place to sleep. lets us make a better world.
@76 You're clearly very naive and ignorant. One need only go onto any UK news portal to find that no one is reading or concerned about anything to do with the Falklands. They're more concerned about who is play football or the next winner on UK's got Talent.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you think the UK political class are using this to distract UK people from more important things, then they're doing a very very poor job. Better to distract people with a terrible boyband or some footballer having an affair.
Besides, you should be more concerned about your own country, where the following issues persist: female infanticide is common-place; dowries are still required; caste system is still enforced; counties are just crammed full of unmarried men; religious intolerance is normal; HIV is undetected and running wild; and, Sati is still practiced.
There is plenty there for you to focus on.
@77
Mar 29th, 2012 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yes thanks for telling all this all to me in sucha aggresive way :) i know all what is going on in my country :) and we are doing lot this also you must know. dont talk about what you see on TV or some so called movies and all. this takes compleat age of anyone to know the real india. even i need a lot more and we indiians are happy then any other country in the world thsi is also proven. it takes a lot to manage 56 diffrent language speaking people more then 100 cultures still being called one as INDIA.
@78 That's utter nonsense. According to the scientific study 'world map of happiness' China came in No. 82, India ranked 125, and Russia was 167 (source: http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/oct2006/gb20061011_072596.htm)
Mar 29th, 2012 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Female infanticide is very very common, honour killings are common, sexual violence towards women is common. India has a modern economy and an ancient value system.
That's just a fact.
@78 deeepak,
Mar 29th, 2012 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We got rid of Sati/suttee for you long ago.
Not much fun for a poor widow.
Why did you bring it back?
That's a step backwards.
Please tell me that you haven't brought back Thuggee?
Love lndia.
Regards
www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/elpais/1-190661-2012-03-29.html
Mar 29th, 2012 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@51 - So your step son and his dad and grandad had a british visa, so what, they are what 3 out of how many. Perhaps you would also like to share the facts as to how they were eligible for a british passport. In fact, don't bother heres all we need to know about eligability for a british passport - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Passports/WhoiseligibleforaBritishpassport/DG_174146
Mar 29th, 2012 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So sorry, but you can only hold a british passport if you are a british citizen, and only way you can be a british citizen is if you lived for 5 years in the UK or british overseas territory or have, or 3 years if your husband or wife of a british citizen.
So perhaps you would care to explain how your step son, his dad and grandad managed to be british citizens, without living in the UK for 5 years or 3 years with their married british citizen partner? Or maybe your just talking crap and merely saying they had britisih passports, just to try and prove you are right. Hell even if they did qualify for british passport, i very much doubt all those 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and so on generations all qualified like you tried to have us believe.
Axel. The right of self determination does apply. It is a key principle of the UN Charter, which is referred to directly or indirectly in every UN Resolution concerning the Falklands. Some of the resolutions even explicitly state that the Falkland Islanders' interests have to be respected.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I see Helber is as desperate as ever...
They don´t want to be Argentine. I don´t want them to be Argentine. Why are we arguing ?
Mar 29th, 2012 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@83 It really seems Argentina signed up the the UN without understanding its charter. They spend 100% of their time at the UN arguing for something that is completely against everything the UN stands for. A bit like when it sells bonds without understanding the repercussions, I guess. Argies don't seem to get a lot of things.
Mar 29th, 2012 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@84 They don't want to be Argentine, You don't want them to be Argentine, We're arguing over the fact that Argentina wants the land as Lebensraum and wants the people sent to Montevideo or dumped into the sea. How very UN and Knoble Peace Prize of them.
@85
Mar 29th, 2012 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0what I dont get with the RG's is that part of their brain washing is telling their children that the Islanders are Argentine and that they are being kept under military occupation by the UK.
Next thing they say that they are rocks and they dont exist.
Funny people. nothing adds up with them. Join the dots and they just say anything; change their minds from one day to the next and think that people are as stupid as they are.
@73 Argie
Mar 29th, 2012 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you eating pies or speaking Hindi?
@deeepak
To give you an idea of this.
In Argentina the term Sepoy ( Soldier, to you or I ) is used as a term of abuse for anyone who does not support the government policy of annexing the Falkland Islands.
Apparently it means they are mercenaries working for the British.
You will hear a version of British history here that the BJP would consider biased.
As you say fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, neither is British territory so far as the British are concerned nowadays.
The S Atlantic is British territory, as far as the British are concerned.
The S Atlantic is British territory, as far as the British are concerned.
Mar 30th, 2012 - 02:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0The all South Atlantic???Really? How is that???
And how long will you keep in that way? So Argentina has nothing to do in the south Atlantic??
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHA
pugol=IDIOT!
@88 Malvinero1,
Mar 30th, 2012 - 04:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0You're back! l've missed you. You make me smile with your:-
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHA
or whatever, and lets not forget:-
ARGENTINA IS FINISHEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!ARGHHH
Please don't go away again, signor. btw, went skiing in Sestriere, do you know it? Near Torino. OOOOOOH, Those Alpini skiers.
@66 nice idealism but alas the price of liberty is paid for in blood. The liberty of the Falklands was paid for in blood. Ok so these days the Junta is not in power, but the truth is, the UK liberated Argentina from the Junta (who killed 30,000 of their own people).
Mar 30th, 2012 - 07:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Falklands continue to live the life they want, aligned with the UK and a good thing too. The UK may not be the best at everything but we dam well have done our part over the years, defeating with our allies the axis powers in WWII, the defeat of a military dictatorship of Argentina, the contribution of our forces in the Balkans, Iraq and the continued fighting of Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan. Idealism is a dream when you have a belligerent enemy. Deepak, if we followed your idealism, we would all be under control of the Nazis, all Jews, gypsies and homosexuals totally exterminated. All mentally disabled people terminated. You have to fight for what is right and not live in a dream!
Please don't go away again, signor. btw, went skiing in Sestriere, do you know it? Near Torino. OOOOOOH, Those Alpini
Mar 30th, 2012 - 07:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0AHAHAAHA isolde....
uk is FINISHED!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbLfje8_jgI
AHAHHAhAHAH I went to Switzerland....I do not like skiing..
Deepak.
Mar 30th, 2012 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Islanders are one of the legacys of empire.
Unlike goa the popuation have little in common with Argentina and can trace their roots back on the islands further than the vast majority of Argentinians can in argentina.
In a sane world the falklands would have a normal relantionship with argentina
With Argentina recognising the isands dont belong to them much like the Uk and faro islands.
#81 Malen
Mar 30th, 2012 - 09:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UK minister regards the Falklands/Malvinas as a white elephant.
The cost of maintaining a garrison there is simply out of proportion to the benefits - perhaps not when the oil gushes!
In the meantime they are honour bound to keep the islands Anglo-Saxon. The cultures differ radically, that is language and religion
Pagina 12 has always been left wing
( 78)
Mar 30th, 2012 - 10:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't forget making remembrance of “” Doctrine of Lapse “” to your old saheps in every comment ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine_of_lapse
The cost of maintaining a garrison in the Falklands can never be out of proportion to keeping the uncivilised Argentinian Neanderthals out of the islands.
Mar 30th, 2012 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't insult the Neanderthals by comparing them to Argentines!
Mar 30th, 2012 - 10:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Neanderthals have/had feelings, you know!
@Isolde
Mar 30th, 2012 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Be fair. Some Argentinians must have feelings too - it is the only logical explanation as to why so many of them come to Europe for better lives working as prostitutes.
@88 Malvinero1
Mar 30th, 2012 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes Malv the S Atlantic is British territory, it has been British since long before Argentina ever existed, and will remain British territory long after Argentina has dissapeared up its own arsehole.
Argentina has no business in the S Atlantic, or Antarctica, Argentina is a S American country only.
JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAAAAAA
Muppet!
the british falklands, will remain british, long after every one on here has passed on,
Mar 30th, 2012 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 051 Argie
Mar 30th, 2012 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0I do not believe you.
What is the name of the RN ship that alledgedly bears your grandfathers name?
@100
Mar 30th, 2012 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of the naming convention of Royal Navy ships will know that Argie's claim can only be a lie.
100. I have no reason to answer you, but I'll do it anyways. The problem with the British is that they think they're second to none, that all around want to annoy them in one way or other and they would not ask for help from good shrinks to overcome this complex. Not the case with the English though, with whom I've not only lived, worked, studied and sat for examinations, but gone to parties, danced, loved, attended football and cricket matches and even canvassed for Ted and, later on for, Maggie. They're a bit shy, but they can break these barriers once the second round is gulped down, and once they know you they make excellent and durable friendships.
Mar 30th, 2012 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To believe or not is your prerrogative. It is not my grandfathers' name. Re read my original message and you'll se what I mean. I don't know if the vessel still exists with that name, as many ships were renamed or sent to scrap since and only the big or famous ones repeat names, say, HMS Sheffield, of which the one prior to the one sunk in the South Atlantic (a D80), attacked the Bismarck and after many combats was mothballed until the end the war. The name of the Anglo-Argentine volunteer was Cyril Guise Walmsley RM and the name of the auxiliary ship was HMS Walmsley.
With particular regard to the fuss made here about the islands, which I feel as a collection of useless expletives just to discuss something which is now a non issue to anyone who'd try to use his brains, please note that even if I'd love to have those territories back, I understand the natives not wanting to be annexed to a country whose goverments (or at least most of those since 1945) only want to suck the national resources in their own benefit instead of working for what they're paid, i.e. making a rich and honourable country in all aspects, with the best in education, health and justice for its people, as it was two generations ago. Traitors as they are, they'll go away with it. The gallows they deserve have known none of their kind, yet!
@102 Well, I for one am grateful for your grandfather's sacrifice and I agree with your sentiment about the opinions of the islanders. Kind of sad that so many brave men fighting against the Nazis had to return to Argentina and suffer the festering remnants of this Nazism. Maybe the British-sourced argentinians should have been more politically active and gone into an ideological war with the italian-mafia and germanic SS.
Mar 30th, 2012 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe then Argentina would have been a very different place.
STEVE-32-U. K J. A. ROBERT.
Mar 30th, 2012 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In 1967 the u. n recalled a referendum that had been made by the u. k. to the population from gibraltar, and it was applied article 6 of resolution 1514, which is based on the principle of territorial integrity, it was applied in resolution 2353, search it and read it. On the other hand, if the self determination is really applicable for this cause, then why the u. n has always considered the malvinas-falkland cause like a special colonial situation?, why the international comunity voted mostly against the british proposals twice in 1985 when it tried to include references about self determination for this dispute?. Anyway beyond all these controvertial points, i have always said that may be self determination is really applicable for the population from the islands, that's why i argue all the time that as long as the u. n doesn't invoke self determination for them, like it did with others colonial situations, then arg. will be able to keep on claiming for the islands. Beside, i suggest reading the statements by the councellours from the islands before the decolonization committee, where they complained about the way that the u. n considers this dispute, and about the lack of application of self determination for the peole from the islands.
@104 The UN did give them self-determination when they applied article 51 of the Charter and allowed the Falkland Islanders the right to self-defence. You cannot defend yourself if you don't exist, if you exist then you have self-determination.
Mar 30th, 2012 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UNSCR 502 gave the Islanders self-determination. The resulting ambiguity of purpose and Argentinian wish to renege on the charter it signed is something for the UN to sort out. It won't.
103. Thanks, but this man was NOT MY GRANDFATHER, but my stepchildren's.... and I have not a drop of Anglo-Saxon blood in my veins, not in 1000 years. Basque blood, from both sides of the Pyrenees is what I have, i.e. neither Spanish, nor Froggie. However, a great-great of mine (second in command to Baltasar Hidalgo de Cisneros) was hit and died by cannonball aboard the Santisima Trinidad, in Trafalgar... Many Basques were for long for Spaniards, as Irish were for the English... And all of us know and live by the rules of the Sea! Agur!
Mar 30th, 2012 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In reply to Argie. The Santisima Trinidad was a really large Ship was she not? I just looked her up on Wikipedia,extremely interesting.
Mar 30th, 2012 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_ship_Nuestra_Se%C3%B1ora_de_la
_Sant%C3%ADsima_Trinidad
Argie, small world, I'm half Basque. Mum and granpops left Spain during the civil war, sadly maternal grandmother and uncle didn't make it.
Mar 30th, 2012 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@104 axel arg
Mar 30th, 2012 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your are seriously deluded if you think the international community as come anywhere close to voting against Britain on the question of either the Falklands or Gibraltar. Perhaps you should rely on facts rather that the demented propaganda of your fascist president.
GREEK YOGHURT. SKARE.
Mar 30th, 2012 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0GREEK: Per haps you are making a wrong intepretations of those resolutions, i'm going to find out about them. In fact, if the u. n gave them self determination, then why the councellours from the islands, complain about the way it still considers the malvinas-falkland cause, and about the lack of application of self determination for their people, before the decolonization committee everyyear?, i read all their statements, because i investigate.
SKARE: You can ignore as much as you like, what i described in my comment 104, it's your choice. The big diference betwen you and i, is that i investigate, i made two investigations about the historic and legal aspects of this dispute, and took into account the british arguments too. May be the one who parrots propaganda is you not me, on the other hand, only an ignorant who doesn't have any idea about what a fascist president is, can make the stupid comment that you made regarding c. f. k. You can agree or not with her ideas, or her policies, but only mediocre people who doesn't think , and who doesn't have any idea about what a true dictatorship is, can say that arg. is a dictatorship, and c. f. k is a fascist. Study, dont parrot ignorant assertions like mediocre people.
@105 GreekYoghurt
Mar 30th, 2012 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 038% of Doctors in America are Indians.
12% of Scientists in America are Indians.
36% of NASA employees are Indians.
34% of MICROSOFT employees are Indians.
28% of IBM employees are Indians.
17% of INTEL employees are Indians.
13% of XEROX employees are Indians.
You may know some of these facts. These
facts were recently published in a German
Magazine, which deals with
WORLD HISTORY FACTS ABOUT INDIA.
India never invaded any country in her last
100000 years of history.
India invented the Number System.
Aryabhatta invented zero.
The World's first university was established in
Takshila in 700BC.More than 10,500 students from
all over the world studied more than 60 subjects. The
University of Nalanda built in the 4th century BC
was one of the greatest achievements of ancient India
in the field of education.
Sanskrit is the mother of all the European
languages. Sanskrit is the most suitable language
for computer software reported in Forbes magazine,
July 1987.
Ayurveda is the earliest school of medicine
known to humans. Charaka, the father of medicine
consolidated Ayurveda 2500 years ago. Today
Ayurveda is fast regaining its rightful place
in our civilization.
Although modern images of India often show
poverty and lack of development, India was the
richest country on earth until the time of
British invasion in the early 17th Century.
The art of Navigation was born in the river
Sindh 6000 years ago.
The very word Navigation is derived from
the Sanskrit word NAVGATIH.
The Word navy is also derived from Sanskrit 'Nou'.
Bhaskaracharya calculated the time taken by the
earth to orbit the sun hundreds of years before the
astronomer Smart.; Time taken by earth to orbit
the sun: (5th century) 365.258756484 days.
Budhayana first calculated the value of pi, and
he explained the concept of what is known as the
Pythagorean Theorem. He discovered this in the
6th century long before the European mathematicians
Algebra, trigonometry and calculus c
@110 axel arg
Mar 30th, 2012 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dress it however you like, but you are still a liar, so go and choke on your banal neo-fascist propaganda and revisionism.
107. Ted
Mar 30th, 2012 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Santisima Trinidad was a huge, heavy Spanish galleon/man-o-war, with plenty of cannon, but unable to move as fast as it should to aim her guns to the swift small English ships that sailed around her as dogs coming for the life of a large and savage but slow beast. Firearms bullets soon sent down the Admiral of the combined fleet, Cisneros, and minutes later his second, Capt.Martin de xxxx (sorry, this is my name) y Elizalde, received a cannonball on his chest and died immediately. After a few hours, almost all of of her crew and officers were killed in action, which lasted until the few defendants spared their last gunpowder, broke their swords and had nothing but their bare hands to defend themselves. Two English ships tried to tug away the great conquered ship, but they had to axe the ropes, frantically, or be taken down to the depths by the Santisima Trinidad, whose hull was so full of water entering by scores of holes and missing planks all over, that she started to sink fast on the very moment the English boats pulled her. Trafalgar's outcome, proved once again that the English warships were faster and more efficient than any of those built in the continent at that time and for years to come. Let's toast now for Nelson, who was of course aware of this.
Cheers!
GREEK YOGHURT.
Mar 30th, 2012 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have been reading those reslutions that you typed in your comment 105, and i realised that you made wrong interpretations.
Both resolutions dont have anything to do with the right to self determination, both were related to the cease of hostilities, they exacted the retire of the argentine troops and find a peaceful solution. It was obvious that the u. n was going to exact the retire our troops, the u. n promouves peaceful solutions for conflicts, and it was expectable that it was going to deffend a vulnerable population like the malvinas-falkland islands. On the other, despite the terrible events of the war, in novermber of 1982, it was aprouved a resolution that calls the two parst of the conflict to resume the negotiations, and find a peaceful solution.
@ 111 deeepak
Mar 30th, 2012 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“India never invaded any country in her last 100000 years of history”
Only because the states within the Indian sub-continent were to busy invading each other’ to bother with outside.
Or world history would have been completely different
@111 deeepak,
Mar 30th, 2012 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very impressive, deeepak.
l say this with no sarcasm at all.
l have been to lndia & apart from the grinding poverty, liked lndia very much.
ln fact l loved it. Love the food.
Your biggest problem is that you have far too many people for the land area & resources that you have.
l lived in lndonesia when l was a child & some lslands have a lot of lndian influence.
The people were Hindu before becoming Muslim.
Bali & Java, for example are covered in old Hindu temples.
So is Cambodia & parts of Vietnam.
Yes, the numbers that we use today are from lndia although people call them “Arabic” numbers.
But Pugol-H is correct,
The lndian states did spend their time fighting each other.
ln fact l don't think that they ever thought of themselves as “lndian” at all.
lt was the British that unified the country & l am pleasently surprised that lndia hasn't broken up into smaller countries since independence in 1947.
Regards
@111
Mar 30th, 2012 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Indians invented Female Infanticide, Honour Killings, the Caste System... et cetera. Why don't you mention those on your list?
@114 When Argentina completely ignored UNSCR 502 the UN allowed the Islanders and the British to enact Article 51 of the Charter of the UN. This is the right of a people to self-defence against a member of the UN. Because the UN classes the Falklands as a territory moving towards self-governance, it was not talking about the UK, but the Falklands. The UK then defended the falklands.
That's the joy of UNSCR 502, it basically gave the people of the falklands self-determination through the right to defend themselves.
111 deeepak
Mar 30th, 2012 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I sense the usual 'hate the British' in this somewhat extended puff on the Indian people.
“Sanskrit is the mother of all the European languages. Sanskrit is the most suitable language for computer software reported in Forbes magazine, July 1987.”
I have a few problems with this sweeping statement, please answer the questions:
1) How come Sanskrit has been a dead native language since 1991?
2) Please give an example of a modern software programme written in Sanskrit that is used worldwide by every 'modern' nation, we can leave Argentina out as it is not modern enough;
3) Latin was the mother of most modern European languages - please give an example of a modern, western language based on Sanskrit and not Latin;
4) Your examples of the number of Indians living and working abroad misses the point. Why are they working abroad? As someone who was deeply involved with the installation of the SDH telephony system used by Powergrid in all the western states I know a little about India and can tell you one thing right now. There are many highly educated (first degree and higher) young Indians working in call centres because there is no other work available suitable to their talents.
And this other statement you have made:
”India was the richest country on earth until the time of (the) British invasion in the early 17th Century.”
Well, it would be if you were a Prince but not if you are low caste and much the same is true today is it not?
Why has India not progressed very far in removing caste since independence? Could it be that like in Argentina the ruling elite do not care about anyone but themselves, except at election time?
I like most Indians I have met and especially Sikh engineers. They are modest but still proud of their heritage without the British jibe.
What a pity you fail to meet their standards.
@116 lsolde
Mar 30th, 2012 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Quite the reverse, since 1947 they have added Kashmire (Indian controlled), Goa and Sikkim to the country, and for a short while occupied East Pakistan then northern Siri Lanka.
To Argie. , “Commanded by Francisco Javier Uriarte and Rear Admiral Baltasar Hidalgo de Cisneros, she took part in the Battle of Trafalgar on October 21, 1805, as part of the combined Franco-Spanish fleet. Due to her great bulk, her helm was unresponsive in the light winds of the day, contributing to her ineffective service of the combined fleet's cause. Her great size and position immediately ahead of the fleet flagship Bucentaure made her a target for the British fleet, and she came under concentrated attack by several ships. She lost her mast and eventually surrendered to the Neptune, commanded by Captain Thomas Fremantle. She was taken in tow by the Prince, but sank in a storm the day after the battle having been scuttled by her British captors”. Fascinating how details regarding individual Ships and the people on them can be accessed after all this time.
Mar 30th, 2012 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It appears that she had been in action on a previous occasion against Nelson, who at that time was a Commodore.
British sailors and their officers also it seems were more efficient because
they had more Sea time under their belts ..Collingwood and others were blockading the ports and mostly denying freedom of access to the open Atlantic.
It doesn't seem right to me that such a massive four deck ship (and around 140 guns)who was known to be very heavy on the helm (if that's the correct expression?) so heavy in fact that she was known as EL Ponderosa..I think? was sent to sea in the light winds that were prevailing on that day.. Maybe the French Admiral Villeneuve upon hearing that Napoleon was sending a replacement to take up his position in command of the combined Fleets decided to go for broke and take everything with him..suitable for the conditions or not?
Your relation who was killed at this Battle (and god bless them all on both sides) as he was killed instantly and did not suffer you can take comfort in that.
Well time to close this now but I have to finish with Up the Falklands!
Please watch this short educational video on Argentina - it's hilarious...
Mar 31st, 2012 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Malvinas vs Falklands: Negotiations with the U.N.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vys78sGB7Y
@119 I forgot about the 1961 Indian Annexation of Goa. That one slipped through my mind.
Mar 31st, 2012 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Funny how these nationalists don't really paint the factual picture.
Well it seems to be fact then
Mar 31st, 2012 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Take out all the anti British rhetoric,
And the world can be glad they bumped into the British instead of other less pleasant rouges, of our distant past,
But as we all had good and bad things in the past,
Would not the future be more apt,
Living in peace and harmony without aggression and selfish greed,
And we could all start with CFK leaving the Falklands alone,
And proving, to the world that Argentina truly is a nation of respect, instead of greed and selfishness.
Just a thought.
GREEK YOGHURT.
Mar 31st, 2012 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I respect your opinion but i really dont agree on it. If the u. n applied self determination when it gave the islanders the right to deffence, then why the u. n still considers the malvinas-falkland cause like a special colonial situation?, why it never applied self determination in none of the resolutions that were expressed for this dipsute, like it did with others colonial situation?, if the right to self determination is really applicable for the population from the islands, then i hope the u. n calls to a referendum. Anyway, its was obvious that the u. n was going to give the islands the right to deffence, because that right is included, on the other hand, despite the terrible consecuences of the war, the u. n has always continued calling the two parts of the conflict to resume the negotiations and find a fair solution.
Does Argentina have the equivalent of an SPCA (Society for the Prevention for Cruelty to Animals). I did not see one there!
Apr 01st, 2012 - 02:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Does this show a lack of sensitivity? People who care for our dumb creatures are aware of the feelings of others.
@124 The only people referring to the relationship between the UK and the Falkland Islands BOT as a 'special and particular colonial situation' are the UN Special Committee on Recolonisation, a group of 24 despotic nations that have little or no moral or ethical standing in this world, including Argentina who follow no rules but their own. The UK correctly chooses not to work with the C24 because of their lack of remit and their apparent love of giving territory to hell-holes.
Apr 01st, 2012 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0The C24 doesn't create resolutions, it creates draft resolutions. So if you'd kindly stick to resolutions, we'd appreciate it.
When the UN gave the people of the Falklands the right to self-defence against an evil foreign expansionist empire, they gave the peoples of the Falklands the right to choose their future. That's called self-determination, the right to choose your future. That's what the Argentinians signed up to when they joined the UN, but seem to have forgotten.
Entering into negotiations over sovereignty of the islands goes against your constitution.
GREEK YOGHURT.
Apr 01st, 2012 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's really lamentable how hipocrite you are, you call argentina, evil foreign expansionist empire, but do you forget what the u. k did in 1833?, wasn't it an act of expansionism, against the rights of another country?, do you forget about the colonial past of the u. k.?, do you forget that still there are 10 colonial enclaves, or non self governing territories which are under british government?, this is evident that you dont think about how rediculous you are when you call argentina colonialist, specialy if you come from the u. k., please change the argument, because it's pathetic.
Respecting the c24, i respect your opinion, in fact all the opinions are respectable, because nobody is the owner of the truth, but the resolutions exist, and they must be respected, beyond the fact that they are recommendations. On the other hand, argentina has always recognized self determination as a right, for all those cases where it's really applicable, and the u. n never applied that principle for this cause, in fact, if self determination is applicable for absolutly every people in the world, then why in 1967, the u. n recalled the referendum that was made in gibraltar by the u. k., and applied article 6 which is based on the principle of territorial integity for resolution 2353?.
Regarding what our constitution affirms about our claim, you are making the usuall distortion that your side expresses all the time. That transitory disposition, promouves the recovery of the islands, under the respect of the international right, but it doesn't say that the only one outcome for us is the transference of sovereignty, maybe it can be open to interpretations, but beyond what our constitution expresses, the u. n never asked the u. k. to transfer the sovereignty to us, it has only called the two parts to resume the negotiations and find a fair solution, no more. Even c. f. k said in diferent forums that we only ask the u. k. to dialogue with us and find a fair solution.
if it is true ??
Apr 01st, 2012 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0that an American warship removed and killed some people from the falklands,
should not some of your agreesion be aimed that way.
@127 axel arg
Apr 01st, 2012 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What has to be respected here is the Islanders rights, any other line of reasoning however convoluted, is a morally bankrupt argument.
You should be able to see and understand that.
PUGOL-H.
Apr 01st, 2012 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I respect your opinion, in fact, like i said before, nobody is the owner of the truth. I have always said that i dont deny that perhaps the right to self determination is applicable for the people from the islands, but beyond our opinions, the u. n never applied that right for this cause, like it did with others colonial situations, so as ong as it doesn't happen, arg. will be able to keep on claiming for the islands, and the resolutions must be respected.
@127 axel-arg.
Apr 01st, 2012 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you actually believe what you are typing in or are you doing it to wind us up?
A) We had a prior claim to the islands.
B) when Vernot set up his colony he was aware of the British claim and sought permission from us.
C) When a garrison was despatched and the islands claimed for the United Proivinces we reacted firstly by lodging a diplomatic protest then by evicting your occupation force after you ignored us. Most of the settlers stayed.
D) what has any other place in the world to do with the Falklands? Gibralter was taken from the Spanish during a war. The Spanish have colonies in Africa.....
E) you are colonialsist /imperialists because you are trying to extend your rule over a population belonging who DO NOT WANT IT. See Pugol-H comments above.
F) You know very well that Argentina will accept nothing less than a complete surrender to you, reding roughshod over the islanders (see point E).
G) The UK should state loudly for the world to hear that Argentinas' claim is based soley on a sense of grievance about not being allowed to get away with the theft of British territory in 1833. That it is an apalling display of a belief of self-entitlement to other peoples property.
H) We should also state loudly that Argentina lies outrageously on the world stage to get what it wants.
The resolutions were respected, there were negoiations and agreements reached, everyone broken by Argentina.
Apr 01st, 2012 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Those resolutions are dead, time to move on.
Axel,
Apr 02nd, 2012 - 08:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Give it a rest & stop writing rubbish.
Argentina has NO RIGHTS in the Falklands & we are :-
NOT GOING TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT SOVEREIGNTY.
There will be:-
NO shared sovereignty,
NO agreements,
We DO NOT WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOU.
You DO NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS HERE.
We DO NOT RESPECT YOU.
So go and annoy someone else.
SHB. PUGOL-H-
Apr 02nd, 2012 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0SHB: Unfortunatelly, you are stil very missinformed respecting the situation of the islands in 1833, when the u. k. deprived arg. from the archipelago. I suggested you in diferent oportunities to read my investigation, where i took into account the british arguments too, but you never acepted it, many omissions are commited when the politicians from both sides or some historians argue about the aspects of this dispute.
Regarding calling argentina colonialist, i have no more to add, this is evident that some people likes to be rediculous, and that's why they insist with those hipocrite and ignorant arguments, but it's their choice.
Everyone has right to think whatever, but the legal aspects can't be ignored, and if both countries are called to resume the negotiations by the u. n., and by most international comunity, that must be respected by both, but if you like buying omissions, or distortions respecting our posture, specialy when you reffer about what our constitution expresses regarding our claim for the islands, that's your problem.
PUGOL: What you say is a partial truth. It's true that arg. broke some agreements that had been signed by both nations in the 90's, i already said what i think about it. But at the same time, your side never accepted to discuss about the sovereignty, which is the main problem, and that's not correct eather. On the other hand, despite the broken agreements, the u. n and most international comunity continued calling both governments to resume the negotiations and find a peaeful solution, and it must be respected by both.
like those who like the Malvinas belong to Argentina .. IF YOU WANT TO BE BRITISH? andate to EUROPE, the question is so simple ... or another solution would be a missile to the islands and the islanders die .. and inhabit the Argentine English total of europe wants to live on the islands of shit ...
Apr 02nd, 2012 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0vostoc “”
Apr 02nd, 2012 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0que tico?
Apr 02nd, 2012 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We Argentine's agree you are british and demand that your country takes you back as USA does to Mexicans. Imagine that??
Apr 02nd, 2012 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We will not burn your boats yet as Australia does but we kindly ask you to to home for the last time.
@138 Pirat-Hunter,
Apr 02nd, 2012 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When are you returning to Spain?
@135 jhon davids,
Wash your mouth out, niño.
@134Axel,
NO NEGOTIATIONS♥
We support the british rights to remain british and encourage them to go home ASAP if the UK truly respects their right to self determination they will grant them the right to return and stay british. If that is what this pirates really want.
Apr 02nd, 2012 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This post is an attempt to put Argentina's case couched in language that they understand.
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 04:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hallo Gringos! Give us back our Malvinas Islands, three times you stole.
The Islands belonga to Argentina,
Chilli belonga to Argentina,
Uruguay belonga Argentina,
Foot-is-gray belonga Argentina.
When I breaka your car, I no speaka da English.
When you breaka my car, I smasha your face.
Argentina set up special UN re-colonization committee to negotiate da sov- err- enity. Special committee number one, Desmond, Adolf and Carlos on committee. We clean the birdshit off victorious general galtieri’s statue in da plaza in honour of committee.
But da committee, they no find Islands on Argentian map, only find on British map!
I say to committee LOOK!! LOOK!! Are you all blind!
Committee no good, number ten.
Argentina want to join Commonwealth,
Commonwealth belonga Argentina. Send team sporting to Commonwealth games, but Mrs Quin, she says: ‘no way!’ She say: ‘Don’t cry for me Argentina, the truth is we don’t want you!’
Argentina sad.
104 axel arg
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“On the other hand, if the self determination is really applicable for this cause, then why the u. n has always considered the malvinas-falkland cause like a special colonial situation?”
When has the UN referred to the Falklands as a special colonial situation?
Can you direct us to the UN resolution that refers to the Falklands as a “Special Colonial Situation”? You have mentioned this numerous times yet I have yet to find where the UN refers to it as such.
Can you provide a link to or the number of the UN resolution where it is refered to as such?
Remember - Draft resolutions don't count.
I believe I may have seen some minutes of the Committee of 24 where individuals refer to it as such, mostly the Argentine representative funnily enough, but if it isn't referred to as such in an official UN resolution perhaps you would be kind enough to stop mis-representing the UN.
@140PiratHunter,
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No we don't want to go to the UK.
We want to conquer Argentina.
We want your land
We want your oil
We want your gold
We want you for slaves
l, personally want you, pirat-hunter, as a slave on my farm.
Looking after my pigs.
Look after them well, p-h, or l will beat you.
LEGION NI.
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I recommend you to read the statement by norma edwards, where she complains about the way that the u. n considers this cause, before the decolonization committe, beside she also complains about the lakc of invocation of self determination for the population from the islands, it was a very interesting statement, you can find it in the archive of this web site, the date is june 24th 2010.
On the other hand, i know that the u. n resolutions are recommendations, but they must be respected, if we dont respect them, then what's the sense of the u. n?, we must respect them, beyond the fact that it's resolutions benefit us or not. Beside, the lack of application of self determination, is not argentina's fault, it's the u. n the one that never invoked that principle for this cause, like it did with others colonial situations.
Axel Arg
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0After some quick checking it appears the only reference to the Falklands as a “Special Colonial Situation” are in the draft resolutions of the Committee of 24.
There is not one GA UN resolution which refers to it as such.
Axel Arg
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is interesting that you point out the ability of people to omit facts which do not fit their argument, while commiting the same offence.
You have stated on numerous occasions as to has your government that the UN considers the Falklands case a “Special Colonial Situation” omitting the fac that it is NOT the UN that has stated as such merely a sub committee.
The Committee of 24 is made up of 29 representatives from 29 countries. The UN has 193 members. The Committe of 24 is therefore only 15.02% of the membership of the UN.
Hardly a majority of the internaitonal community now is it.
For Resolutions to adobted by the General Assembly of the UN, it most gain the vote of at least 50% of the General Assembly.
No GA resolution referring to the Falklands as a “special colonial situation” has been adopted by the GA, so it is not the majority opinion of the UN.
NOR is there any GA resolution which states that self determination does not apply to the Falkland Islanders.
AND
Norma Edwards complains before the Committee of 24 about the lack of invocation of Self Determination NOT before the UN. Do you seek to mislead again or is that a genuine error?
The UK backs the right of the Islanders to Self Determination as set out in the UN Charter and in accdordance with the GA Resolutions in reference to the Falklands Islands sovereignty dispute.
Axel Arg
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ALSO
The support of the Committee of 24 isn't unanimous with at least one
voice on the committee back the Islanders rights in the dsipute.
RASIE KARGBO of Sierra Leone stated the following:
”the principle of self-determination was a prime factor in any consideration of the question of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas). The basic principles outlined in resolution 1514 (XV) (1960) formed the basis of the Special Committee’s work. Citing General Assembly resolution 637 (VII), she said the Special Committee was obliged, not only to uphold the principle of self-determination, but to recognize it as a prerequisite for realising fundamental human rights. Any attempt to resolve the issue without taking into full account the wishes of the islanders would be inconsistent with the United Nations Charter and relevant Assembly resolutions.”
And LASTLY
You will have to forgive us if we do not take the Committee of 24 to seriously given the human rights record of some of it's members.
Syria, Iran, China for example.
Not to mention the large proportion of South American countries who are members also.
143 lsolde
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Be careful Isolde, threatening to beat Pirat-Hunter is likely to get him 'all worked up' if you know what I mean. :o)
@Pirat hunter - have you ever caught any pirats?
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I read on twitter that @htimerman was all for a referendum!
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Pirat hunter - have you ever caught any pirats?
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yar har fiddle dee do what you like cause a pirate is free .
Apr 04th, 2012 - 06:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pirat hunter obviously couldnt catch a cold.
Pirates of the South Atlantic sounds cool because Pirates are cool.
Plus they have the flying spaghetti monster on their side.
Please join -
Apr 04th, 2012 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Keep the Falklands British -
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Keep-the-Falklands-British/123151384435619?sk=wall&filter=1
150 arealist I read on twitter that @htimerman was all for a referendum!
Apr 04th, 2012 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I saw that on twitter and retweeted it. Some kind lady then informed me that is was a spoof site set up by some Wag..had me fooled.
Edward Teach (Blackbeard) was from my City of Bristol.
139 lsolde
Old Ted Teach would like to walk someone on this site along a plank...any idea's ?
LEGION NI.
Apr 04th, 2012 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I told you in another comment that the decolonization committe belongs to the u. n, anywway i sould have clarified that in all my comments. Some times i type u. n., and others i type decolonization committe, but i should have been clearer. Beside, i value the information that you typed in your comments, because i didn't know some of the things that you tell me.
The malvinas-falkland cause is presented every year before that place, and it has always called the two nations to resume the negotiations, and that's not being respected. On the other hand, if the islanders want to remain british, that won't change, because the decolonization committe has never asked the u. k to transfer the sovereignty to arg. Discussing about the sovereigny, in order to find a peaceful solution for it, doesn't implicate a submition to the argentine sovereignty, it's not imposible to find a fair solution for both. There are distortions about the posture of my country regarding this dispute, and i have always argued about them, specialy when some of your politicians reffer the article that was incorporated in our constitution that is related to this cause.
Axel,
Apr 04th, 2012 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0with respect: The remit of the Special Committee on Decolonization in the case of the non-self -governing territory of the Falkland Islands is to examine the application of the Declaration, to make suggestions and recommendations on the progress and extent of the implementation of the Declaration, and to report to the General Assembly.
In 1961 the Falkland Islands were a British Crown Colony, subject to rule by a without representation
In 2012 the Islands are a British Overseas Territory by free association and the Falkland Islands government is democratically elected by the people of the Falkland Islands for the people of the Falklands Islands and lawfully governs the Falkland Islands, exercising independent legal jurisdiction over the territories of the Falkland Islands including control of immigration to its territories.
The fact is the C24 is constituted of member states who openly ally with Argentina and subvert the terms of reference of resolution 1654(XVI) to support Argentina's political cause rather than its actual terms of reference which is to report the implementation of resolution 1514(XV) by Great Britain for the Falkland Islanders.
Great Britain reports that the implementation of resolution 1514(XV) by Great Britain is complete.
The Falkland Islanders confirm that the transfer all powers to the peoples of Falkland Islands without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or color by Great Britain to them has occurred and this enables them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.
Furthermore the Falkland Islanders confirm they have chosen free association with Great Britain and freely determined their current status as a British Overseas Territory.
Thus the Falkland Islanders report the the C24 that the matter of their decolonization is resolved to their satisfaction and the U.N. process of decolonization complete.
Shame on Argentina.
@154Ted,
Apr 04th, 2012 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0l can think of at least a quartet of the scurvy dogs that l'd like to hang from the yard arm.
Some o' the bilge rats need 50 lashes at the mast.
As for the rest of the lubbers, run them through with hot irons.
Axel,
Apr 05th, 2012 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0also please consider that Great Britain also reports to the UN General Assembly and the Special Committee on decolonization that it cannot enter into negotiations with Argentina because:
1. Argentina ended negotiations and ended previous agreements
2. Great Britain has transferred all powers to the Falkland Islanders
in accordance with the implementation of resolution 1514(XV),
as required of Great Britain by UN Charter Article 73 rendering its
obligations under Article 33 ineffective because Great Britain has
transferred the right to negotiate disputes over sovereignty to people
who inhabit and govern the territory who democratically decline to
negotiate because of the fixed non-negotiable position of the Argentine
Constitution and because of Argentina's illegal armed subjugation of
the Falklands' people and the subsequent defeat of Argentina and
liberation of the people of the Falklands.
Perhaps Argentina should seek judicial settlement through the UN International Court of Justice or seek reconciliation such that all parties might jointly request recommendations for pacific settlement of the dispute from the UN Security Council under Article 38?
DOMINGO.
Apr 05th, 2012 - 02:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are making no more than the usuall distortion that is expresssed by your side, when you reffer the article that was included in our constitution, regarding our claim from the islands.
Firstly, the transitory dispisition that was incorporated in our constitution, only says that arg. must recover the full sovereignty, under the respect for the international right. It doesn't say that the only one outcome for us is the transference of sovereignty to arg., beside, beyond what our constitution says, the u. n has never askd the u. k. to transfer the sovereignty to us, all the resolutions have always called the two nations to resume the negotiations, which is rejected by the u. k. In the same way that the islanders claim for self determination, we claim for our territorial integrity. Beside, if you like to invoke the charter of the u. n, you should know that neather the charter, nor resolution 1514, let a colonial situation to brake the territorial integrity of a country, in fact, read resolution 2353 that reffers the gibraltar question, and you'll know the relevancy of territorial integrity.
On the hand, i agree that the case should be taken to the i. c. j, in fact between 1884 and 1888, our country suggested the u. k to take the dispute to the arbitration, and it was rejected by the it., and in 1947, the u. k proposed to take the dispute of the dependencies to the court, but it didn't include the case of the islands in the proposal. After that year, none of both nations proposed again to take the question to the court, i have always thought that maybe both aren't sure that they can win the case, so, the best that the two parts can do, is to resume the negotiations and find a fair solution.
Axel,
Apr 05th, 2012 - 06:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have read resolution 2353. However, you are missing the essential point, which is that the UN Special Committee affirms that the provisions of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples are fully applicable to the Territory of Gibraltar.
The complaint of the UN Special Committee in 2353 is that Great Britain must implement 1514(XV) in Gibraltar to its full extent and that the conduct of 1967 referendum in itself does not obviate the requirement to fully implement resolution 1514(XV) and that Britain cannot use a referendum to maintain the status quo rather Great Britain must end the Crown Colony status of Gibraltar by transferring all powers to the Gibraltarians in accordance with resolution 1514(XV).
Ultimately the invitation of the General Assembly for negotiations between Spain and Great Britain is only to agree how Great Britain shall implement resolution 1514(XV) in Gibraltar to end the dispute with Spain, but the end game is the transfer of power to the Gibraltarians so they may exercise self-determination.
By analogy, were 2353 to apply to the Falkland Islands instead of Gibraltar, then at most Great Britain would be invited to negotiation with Argentina on how Great Britain would implement resolution 1514(XV) for the people of the Falkland Islands to transfer all powers to them so they may exercise self-determination.
In fact, the relevant resolution from this period is resolution 2065(XX) which confirms resolution 1514(XV) covers the case of the Falkland Islands. And, in fact, Great Britain and Argentina did enter such negotiations.
The fact is Argentina ended these negotiations when it illegal annexed the Falkland Islands by force in 1982. Thus the blame for the failure of the 2065(XX) negotiations largely lies with Argentina and for which democratic Argentina should accept its guilt.
Similarly, negotiations under Resolution 43/25 in 1988 were begun and some problems resolved, but Argentina withdrew.
@160Domingo,
Apr 05th, 2012 - 09:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0You won't get much sense out of Axel. lol
DOMINGO.
Apr 05th, 2012 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Despite the terrible events of the war, the u. n. g. a resolutions continued calling both nations to resume the negotiations in order to find a peaceful solution, the u. k and the islanders have always expressed that they are disposed to discuss about diferent issues with arg., except the sovereignty. We can't ignore that the main problem is the sovereignty, and it must be discussed, i am not going to repeat again about what the u. n expressed for this dipsute, because i have argued about it in all my comments. On the other hand, if i reffer resolution 2353, it's because in that resolution is expressed the thought of the charter of the u. n. regarding the relevancy of territorial integrity.
Beside, i have always thought also that the resolutions must be more specific, because in the way that they are expressed, they can be open to diferent interpretations. It's true that none of them never affirmed that self determination is not applicable for the islanders, in the same way that none of them invoked that right in the resolutions, like it did with others colonial situations. Anyway i dont deny that maybe that principle is aplicable for the islanders, i have expressed it in all my comments, that's why i have always said that the best that both nations can do, is to take the dispute to the court, but you already know what i think about the lack of this proposal by both countries.
On the other hand, i dont deny that perhaps our government didn't act correctly when it recalled the agreements that it had signed in the 90's with the u. k., but at the same time, it rejects sistematicly all the resolutions that call the two nations to resume the negotiations and find a peaceful solution, i already told you about the posture of my country regarding this cause, despite the distortions that your side commits some times when it reffers our constitution, that's why i think that neather the u. k, nor the islanders have any excuse to keep on rejecting the negotiations.
162 axel arg
Apr 05th, 2012 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I really do not see any way out of this one axel? C.F.K demands the Malvinas back! We say that 1st that they are the Falkland Islands 2nd that you can't have them back 3rd that you never had them in the first place. you then come back saying yes we did! we say oh no you did not! then we argue over history or the finer points of this or that resolution or non or near or should have been resolution, recurring, recurring. It seems to me that we all can be guilty of talking about and around the future of the fair people of these Islands without actually referring to them directly..sort of like a deaf person in a room full of people all talking around him/her as the case may be. I was present in a room full of people once and they were all chattering away regarding whether or not this person (a deaf person) wanted to be buried or cremated not once talking directly to the person in question... but the deaf person could have wryly smiled at this as they had already decided this and had made their arrangements accordingly. I am sorry if this all comes across as pedantic even ponderous but my point is this.. All of the many millions of people in your fair country and mine talking around and about the future of the people of the Falkland Islands ..their homes where they were born and raised ..their graveyards where their loved ones lie...the future for their children..the Roots now axel are deep..really healthy and deep! You axel (if I am any judge?) or I, would die to protect these precious things. All of this talk is going to be fruitless because the future of the Falklands is going to be decided by (these people that we talk around) the people of the Falklands..yes the people (only about 3000 of them) of this little group of Islands out in the South Atlantic Ocean are going to have the last and final say on this and I wish them well. I shall finish this now axel by shouting Up the Falklands! but my final words are for you.Peace to You and Argentina.Ted.
Axel,
Apr 05th, 2012 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0resolution 2353 refers to the territorial integrity and national unity of the Gibraltarians, i.e. the 1967 referendum in itself cannot be used as an excuse to indefinitely defer the implementation of resolution 1514(XV) in its full extent by Great Britain. The referendum is rejected as an excuse to maintain a Crown Colony with all powers held by the governing metropole, rather than their immediately transfer to the people of the non-self-governing territories by their administrating country. This is the principle resolution 2353 upholds
It's meaning is that transfer of all powers to the Gibraltarians must occur immediately in accordance with resolution 1514(XV) and that no referendum under the administrating country can frustrate this process and that Great Britain's citing the 1967 referendum to frustrate the implementation of resolution 1514(XV) for the Gibraltarians is an attempt by Great Britain aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country, which is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and rejected by the UN GA
Resolution 1514(XV) only applies to non-self-governing territories of which both Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands are listed and neither Argentina nor Spain are
Now, Spain and Argentina have distorted this phrase for their own nationalistic political propaganda to distort its true meaning to try and claim both Spain and Argentina have rights of territorial integrity under resolution 1514(XV). Examination of the merit of these claims deserves adjudication by the UN International Court of Justice
The position of the UN GA is clear:
1. Resolution 1514(XV) is fully applicable to and covers the cases of the Falkland Islands and Gibraltar
2. The UN GA is convinced negotiation to agree the implementation of
resolution 1514(XV) by Great Britain for the peoples of both the Falkland Islands and Gibraltar is the way to end the dispute
TED.
Apr 06th, 2012 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have a huge respect for the love that you feel for your people, it's not much diferent than the love what i feel for mine, and i respect also the diferences of opinions betwen we all. But i have thought also that unfortunatelly, in planty of oportunities we finally buy the distortions and the omissions of the politicians from both sides, when they reffer the historic aspects of this conflict, and when your side argues about the posture of arg. Firstly, the u.n has never asked the u. k to transfer the sovereignty to arg., all the resolutions have only called the two parts to resume the negotiations and find a fair solution, no more. It means that if the islanders want to remain under british governent, that won't change, but it's not impsoible to find a fair solution for both people. On the other hand, your side makes such a fuss regarding what our constitution says about our claim for the islands, but that transitory disposition only says that we must recover the full sovereignty under the respect for the int. right, it doesn't say that the only one outcome for us is the transference of sovereignty to arg., that's actually a distortion that your side commits all the time, beside, beyond what our constitution says, if the u. n never asked the u. k to transfer the sovereignty to us, it wont' never happen, the islands won't never be only under argentine sovereignty. On the other hand, c. f. k affirmed in diferent forums, due to the distortion that your side makes all the time regarding the posture of arg., she affirmed that arg. is not asking the u. k to recognize that the islands are argentine, all what our country asks, is to resume the negotiations and dialogue with us, in order to find a peaceful solution, beside, our chancellour manifests every year before the decolonization committe, that arg. has always been disposed to renew the safeguards and the guarantees that had been negotiated with the u. k before 1982, but it rejects that proposal.
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