MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
FT says UK trying to collect £ 45m Argentina used in the Falklands’ conflict
According to a piece from the Financial Times Britain is chasing £45m of debt owed by the Argentine government that was lent to the military Junta in 1979 and used, in part, to buy weapons that were later used during the Falkland Islands in 1982. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesTbf we did get a chinook off them and some g wagons although the myth was when we tried to get them refurbed mercerdes confiscated them as they handnt been paid either!
Apr 09th, 2012 - 06:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Plus enough aa guns to outfit a new unit.
This debt has been open for over 30 years while we continue to pay the RGs development aid of GBP 452m (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4154362/Britain-funds-450m-aid-to-Argentina.html).
Apr 09th, 2012 - 09:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0The usual reason for paying development aid is to improve the conditions of ordinary people and to educate the children (hopefully in a way that is kind towards the UK). Argentina does none of these things.
Instead, the government cronies line their own pockets and the kids are taught a warped version of history about the Falklands.
UK Aid to Argentina should stop now - Sign the e-petition: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4154362/Britain-funds-450m-aid-to-Argentina.html).
More than 11,000 personal weapons with more than 4,000,000 rounds
Apr 09th, 2012 - 09:50 am - Link - Report abuse 015 anti-aircraft cannons
14 flyable helecopters (mostly UH-1 Iroquois, but 1 chinook)
13 artilliary pieces, with 11,000 rounds
Blowpipe and SAM-7 anti-aircraft missiles
10 Pucara ground attack planes (that were evaluated and found not to be any use)
140 assorted Mercedes vehicles, some of which had actually been paid for
12 armoured cars
and a patrol boat (HMS Tiger Bay)
@3 Rufus (#)
Apr 09th, 2012 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0That is an impressive list and I remember using some of the captured equipment myself for training purposes after the war. But what is the point df the list. I think I know what is coming but I want to hear it from you.
@ 3 sounds like a listing of kit the RG brought here in 1982 and much of which was destroyed/shot up during the war - hardly a satisfactory recompense! But, the issue is not about recompense its about paying up with a smile while the price is still cheap!
Apr 09th, 2012 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0A £45m debt from 1979, not including the interest? Predictibly the Argentineans will never pay and the UK government will only half-heartily pursue payment because they will try and avoid any conflict. The EU as well as the UK will continue to provide aid to Argentina. Meanwhile, YPF will be nationalized with Spain helpless to do anything significant to stop the thieves. Sometimes, “crime does pay…”
Apr 09th, 2012 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is what was either confiscated or abandoned.
Apr 09th, 2012 - 11:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not sure of the exact legal status of military equipment at the end of a war, especially one that didn't have either a declaration of war or a corresponding peace treaty. Nonetheless, it is a quite substantial list of kit (although how much was actually in a usable condition or was actually worth using as more museum piecesor novelty paperweights), which would be worth quite a bit I'd have thought.
I just don't think that invasion, war and war material was the agreed repayment method. Novel and unconventional I will grant you but certainly not agreed upon by either party when the loan was signed for.
Apr 09th, 2012 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think, knowing what CFK and FatBoy do to there own people by robbing them blind the UK has two chances of getting the money back: none and zero.
Apr 09th, 2012 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0I agree. The UK has two hopes of ever seeing a penny of this money, no hope and Bob Hope. However I still think it is worth the trouble of exhaling the words because even when Argentina have no intention of honouring any agreement they have ever entered into in that timeless Viveza criollo fashion, at least it reminds them that they still have obligations all-the-same.
Apr 09th, 2012 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oooooops
Apr 09th, 2012 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Somehow, the last phrase from the original Financial Times Article was left out….
Allow me to correct this totally unpremeditated, unintentional, unintended and unplanned mistake:
“Mr Dearden said: “The newly uncovered documents show that the then foreign secretary David Owen knew the UK GOVERNMENT WAS LENDING MONEY FOR ARMS TO AN ABHORRENT REGIME””
That’s it… Wasn’t so bad was it?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d194ee1c-7d6f-11e1-bfa5-00144feab49a.html#axzz1rXkdf6X7
11 I don't Think
Apr 09th, 2012 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And now we are trying to get it back from an abhorrent regime.
It just so happens to be Argentina: NOTHING CHANGES DOES IT?
The same abhorrent regime the present Argentine Government is commemorating for invading a defenceless peaceful islands and terrorising the inhabitants.
Apr 09th, 2012 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pretty abhorrent thing to do in the 21st Century, all Argentines should hang their heads in shame and in the case of Think, self flagellate.
@11 Think (#)
Apr 09th, 2012 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apr 09th, 2012 - 12:05 pm
Argentine logic at work again. It wasn't lent to the present government so Argentina are not liable.
Simples.
(14) Furry-Fat-Feck
Apr 09th, 2012 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say:
“Argentine logic at work again. It wasn't lent to the present government so Argentina are not liable”
I say:
If you cared to read the above article, you would find out that it is “B-R-I-T-I-S-H logic”.........:
It is the Jubilee Debt Campaign saying that: “Lending the military Junta money to buy British weapons was illegitimate and odious. The Liberal Democrats must stick to their pledge to rule invalid loans recklessly given to dictators.”
And the Jubilee Debt Campaign, including its director: Nick Dearden are B-R-I-T-I-S-H.
Simples.............................. (What a Turnip)
The Sas pinched the gucci helicopters for their own use and even managed to persuade the goverment to buy them some new ones.
Apr 09th, 2012 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I had one of the argentine rifles for awhile quite cool having a rifle you could use for exercise purposes without having to clean it and automatic fire was fun but pointless.
Who didn't read the article? The liberal democrat party has an official policy of debt cancellation and debt campaigners want to hold them to it. The government however has no plans to offer debt forgiveness.
Apr 09th, 2012 - 02:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And if you want to read up on another liberal democrat pledge that was overridden by the coalition government see 'university tuition fees'.
Your argument is moot.
#12 “I don't Think”
Apr 09th, 2012 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know, but you really should try to some time Chris =)
Absurd but unsurprising really that they would lend money to an abhorrent right wing dictatorship and try 30 years later to take money from a peaceful leftist democracy.
#13 Yeah thats why the junta's leaders are in jail and the commemorations soundly condemned the junta.
#17 Thats one thing we agree on - LibDems are hopeless
2 RedBaron
Apr 09th, 2012 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have just Signed it .
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
We think the British government should re-examine all foreign aid,
And cut the 12 billion to say zero, until they can provide evidence of where it is spent,
And spend more on our own depleted defence .
.
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=9008
Apr 09th, 2012 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Laughter......Laughter......BYSIN
18 - Its not our fault, we didnt support the military junta, i remember thousands or rg's not celebrating in the streets when they invaded the peaceful islands. Good point you are peaceful now, constantly threatening the islanders with economic blockade. Seems to be a constant that the RG's borrow and dont pay money back. It must be because your in such a strong economic position, defaulting imf loans, defaulting loans to US, lying about your inflation rate. Your so strong now economically that the IMF has closed down its offices in BA. Maybe HMS Dauntless can come and collect the cash you owe. But as you have said anything in the past isnt your fault, you and population are completely blameless for any actions. Keep burying your heads in the sand. Shame no invited heads of state came to support your reichmistress on the anniversary, they were all busy i think. Now let the islanders life in peace, as you said you are a peaceful nation.............. Simples
Apr 09th, 2012 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its only money,
Apr 09th, 2012 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We have plenty,
We give plenty
We spend plenty
We donate plenty
We throw away plenty,
And we receive nothing.
So, nothing new there then ?
.
18 British_Kirchnerist
Apr 09th, 2012 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do realise that your mind has difficulty dealing with reality and fact. You used the wrong tag ID. It was related to your mentor 'I don't Think', nor do you, but in your case the more accurate tag would be 'I can't think'.
20 - Where as the RG Military is whiter than white, 30,000 murdered wow, trumps BAE oiling the wheels of what is a murky industry, makes a nice bit of cash for the UK you know.
Apr 09th, 2012 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Main articles: Dirty War and Operation Condor
During Argentina's Dirty War and Operation Condor, many alleged political dissidents were abducted or illegally detained and were smoked to life and kept in clandestine detention centres such as ESMA, where they were questioned, tortured and sometimes killed. Whenever the female captives were pregnant, their children were stolen away right after giving birth, while they themselves remained detained. Eventually, many of the captives were heavily drugged and taken on airplanes far out over the Atlantic Ocean, into which they were thrown alive, allegedly with heavy weights tied to their feet, so as to leave no trace of their death. Without any dead bodies, the government could easily deny any knowledge of their whereabouts and any accusations that they had been killed. People murdered in this way (and in others) are today referred to as “the disappeared” (los desaparecidos), and this is where the modern usage of the term derives. There is an activist group called “Mothers of the Plaza de Mayo”, formed by mothers of those victims of the dictatorship. Mathematician Boris Weisfeiler is thought to have disappeared near Colonia Dignidad, a German colony founded by anti-Communist Paul Schäfer in Chile, which was used as a detention center by the DINA, the secret police.[4]
The phrase was recognized by Argentine de facto President, General Jorge Rafael Videla, who said in a press conference during the military government which he commanded in Argentina: ”They are neither dead nor alive, they are desaparecidos (missing)”. It is thought that in Argentina, between 1976 and 1983, up to 30,000 people (9,000 verified named cases, according to the official report by the CONADEP)[5] were subjected to forced disappearance.news stories...pasterooooney
( 24 )
Apr 09th, 2012 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your comment-24 is actually wellknown story,but contains neither argument nor proof....
@20 TipsyThink (#)
Apr 09th, 2012 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apr 09th, 2012 - 05:48 pm
Not sure what you are trying to prove. That BAe are capable of underhandedness?
I just had a 2 minute play with google and found this:
http://www.nationinstitute.org/press/releases/1215/prophets_of_war/
Then I had another quick play and found this:
http://www.nationinstitute.org/press/releases/1215/prophets_of_war/
It turns out that all sorts of underhanded ness goes on in the aerospace industry. I do not condone it but BAe is certainly not a unique perpetrator.
I had another play and it seems that the Chinese are a bit underhanded at times too. Shock! Horror!
http://www.nationinstitute.org/press/releases/1215/prophets_of_war/
What is yor point?
( 26 )
Apr 09th, 2012 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0..the all military-industry complexs are very dirty and dangerous..
Dwight Eisenhoover
Bloody hell we agree about something. But you DID single out a British company didn't you?
Apr 09th, 2012 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0( 28 )
Apr 09th, 2012 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Becouse ..this article focused on some British connections.
Nations that don't repay their debt should be forced to repay debt in ceded territory, that way fewer nations would default and habitual debit defaulting nations like Argentina and Zimbabwe would cease to exist.
Apr 09th, 2012 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A simple solution to Argentine debt problem and the Falklands dispute!
We have a new warship coming into the area, better pay up morons or we will flatten you. OOPS, I forgot you haven’t any money to pay us with have you, never mind we will just land and take what we won’t and seeing that you haven’t anything of value, we will just take your country. We will be quid’s in £45 million cheap at any price. Morons.
Apr 09th, 2012 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 031 Britishbulldog
Apr 09th, 2012 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That post is about as pointless and damaging as some of the nonsense Think puts on here. You have every right to say what you think but what a load of nonsense.
@32 Joe Bloggs (#)
Apr 09th, 2012 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apr 09th, 2012 - 07:41 pm
Agreed.
Come on folks. Don't let the side down now.
Finally we see UK starting to show signs of willingness to negotiate but a few choppers and a few ships could never make up for the theft of land and fish from Islas marinas Argentina, they must be thinking they are dealing with indios.
Apr 09th, 2012 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The chances are, that you will never get the money back,
Apr 09th, 2012 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the UK will still give Argentina aid,
Perhaps one has to wonder why we trade with them in the first place, if they are so bad.
But as the government says,
We only want to be your friend.
But just how far does friendship go,?
.
Britain and Tony Blair loved to sell arms to dictators..
Apr 10th, 2012 - 03:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mru9Pllusr0
Well the argie chinook is still flying with the the RAF after being rebuilt.
Apr 10th, 2012 - 07:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Although its left door is still flying with bravo november .
The comment (#11) about the UL selling arms to the abhorrent regime in Argentina shows up the hypocrisy of the Labour Government. At the same time David Owen condemned to South African regime and imposed sanctions against the republic.
Apr 10th, 2012 - 10:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0How many more sanctimonious acts of the Labour government that one might be able to learn about.
25 -Apologies here we go
Apr 10th, 2012 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Proof = 30000 missing people
think they are called 'los desaparecidos'
The fact you say this is well known - so what, the harbouring of ss nazi's after the war by RG's is well known and still gets a regular airing. The fact that RG's economy is broke, proof is your rampant inflation and defaulting on loans. So well done Rumpole , most of the RG Troll posts contain neither proof (facts, correct historical data) or a logical arguement.
#38 Yes I can see you prefer a Tory government which would show some logical consistency in backing South American death squad juntas AND apartheid. If, like my Queen, you ACTUALLY thought the junta abhorrent you would see the latter as at least just as bad...
Apr 10th, 2012 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We used the armoured cars for taeget practice as they were utterly useless on the
Apr 10th, 2012 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Falkands.
40 - Apparently the whole of Argentina didnt support this regime. The hundreds of thousands of citizens celebrating the Falklands Invasion in BA must of been a mirage (oops sorry war reference)
Apr 10th, 2012 - 12:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Kirchers hubbie attended a celebration in BA after the invasion, probably meant as a protest against the brutal junta.
40 British_Kirchnerist
Apr 10th, 2012 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your governments have not always acted in the interests of the colonial people and Her Majesty's vaious governments have a lot to be ashamed of.
37 Martin Woodhead (#)
Apr 10th, 2012 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Well the argie chinook is still flying with the the RAF after being rebuilt”
Great job!
“Ian Sadler, who lost his son Jack in the explosion, has been highly critical of the inadequate equipment provided to British troops.
”Everyone I have told about the helicopter being a cut and shut has responded with disbelief,“ said Mr Sadler, from Exmouth, Devon.
”It's penny pinching and an insult to the young men who are going to Afghanistan and risking and losing their lives.
“It's disgusting the way they are treating these young soldiers.” The front of the twin engine helicopter is from an RAF Chinnook which crashed in the Oman in 1999 when its rear blades touched the ground, ripping one of the engines from the aircraft”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/5849377/RAF-helicopter-built-using-half-of-chinook-captured-in-Falklands.html
44 - Really good programme on a few days ago about chinook BN (falklands RAF Chinook) thats still flying. Boeing run a chinook refurbishment plant in US & UK. Its a huge production line old battle worn chinooks go in one end and 6 months later come out upgraded checked re-painted etc, battle damage is repaired. The chinook is modular in three large bits the rear section is one complete module. Anyway a badly battle damaged chinook came into this facility, we will have to buy a complete new rear section the engineer reported. Some bright spark came up with the idea of using the rear end of the RG chinook as suprisingly it was it good condition. I would reccomend you watch the show it was very impressive how they upgrade these machines. So no need to worry its quite normal to salvage parts and refit. The show was hosted by Mike Brewer of 'Wheeler Dealers' fame, i really enjoyed it.
Apr 10th, 2012 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you don’t pay us our money back
Apr 10th, 2012 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We will take you to a British court,
And this will mean legal action against you,
You could end up with a criminal record,
A fifty pound fine,
Or community service,,
We are tough on crime, and the causes of crime,
Says our Kenneth Clark
You have been warned.
.
#43 I know! Have you seen my other contributions?! And the “my Queen” reference is to Reina Cristina, just to wind up the super-patriots on here
Apr 10th, 2012 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 047 - Really!! you little tinker, what a super wheeze...very clever. Your like a double agent. The name British fools the ultra patriotic british on the forum. When you really a RG Troll suporting a dictator superb...the Kircher Youth would be proud
Apr 11th, 2012 - 06:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0You know I always suspected there was something up with BK. Yes the English itself is very good but I am afraid the sentence structure is all wrong and there are serious ommisions and basic misunderstandings. Holes in his/her knowledge base. He/she uses far too many generalisations that on even cursory inspection do not stack up or ring true. Not authentic, not native. It needs more work. He/she needs more time amongst British people to understand that too much of their discourse is all out of whack. If you did speak like this individual does in a social situation you be politely dismissed as a bit of an idiot with learning difficulties and a jaded and distorted world view, maybe a special needs case.
Apr 11th, 2012 - 07:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is easier to deceive for longer on an internet forum but he/she wouldn't last more than a few minutes in a face to face conversation.
No. I do not believe BK is from the UK. Nice try but needs work.
Furry I speak entirely differently in social situations, sorry to dissapoint but I don't see you, Conqueror etc as my friends...
Apr 11th, 2012 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0I thought you were British sob, you duped us all. Dam RG's and your clever ruse
Apr 11th, 2012 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 051 cLOHO
Apr 11th, 2012 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0No, British Kirchnerist is a Scot, maybe living in England (he has not said) but with obvious signs of psychosis.
Well to be fair I did suggest he was either an Argentinian or a fruit loop.
Apr 11th, 2012 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 052 - A scot , so he is British then oh joy. Thought he was a RG troll pretending to be a nationality to slate uk eg. that pretend Australian on the forum. But agree showing signs as being as mad as a tree
Apr 11th, 2012 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A turn coat, is a turn coat, no matter where he /she was born .
Apr 11th, 2012 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0och eye indeed tis true. Still doubt its the truth, plays nicely for a troll to be scottish, they can then rage against the colonial power that was england and the highland clearances etc. The scots guards did a stirling job in the falklands war on tumbledown.
Apr 11th, 2012 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Everybody is entitled to an opinion. There are plenty of Argentinians who think the FI should be left well alone or care not one jot either way. You won't find them on here because they usually have more pressing worries to be getting on with. Most of the rest of us are here because we have some interest in the issue. I am only here because I have a weakness for twisted fruit loops with a dotty world view. They entertain the bejesus out of me.
Apr 11th, 2012 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0im only hewre because CFK has a gun to my head,
Apr 11th, 2012 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0chuckle chuckle .
@58 briton (#)
Apr 11th, 2012 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry bloke I didn't mean it to sound flippant. Of course I have an interest, I think FI is a worthy cause and the UK/FIG are right to stand firm against Argentine aggression but I won't get worked up about it. Malvinistas are not worth the effort.
59 Furry-Fat-Feck
Apr 11th, 2012 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree with you.
I was just making a sour joke that went haywire
At least we both on the same side
[the right side]
thanks
Could someone please identify the role in which the Junta used a Type 42 Air Defence Destroyer and Anti-Submarine Lynx helicopter in suppressing the people of Argentina?
Apr 12th, 2012 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Or was it just the usual waffle to cover up the fact that the Junta enjoyed rather widespread support by the people of Argentina. Or do we just forget that.
#56 Actually I'm not the kind of Scottish nationalist who pretends we are an opressed country like Ireland under the British, I'm well aware of our own murky imperial past which is one of the reasons I don't support Scottish independence.
Apr 12th, 2012 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse 062 - fair enough
Apr 12th, 2012 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Every country has murky past, as the US are finding out being top dog gets you involved on all sorts of spats and wars. British empire, Spanish, french to name but a few all have murky imperial pasts..it comes with the job.
@British Kirchenist - if you really are British but love Argentina so much why don't you emigrate there? They're always in need of gullible nutters.
Apr 12th, 2012 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And regarding Britons murky imperial past, at least it's better than Argentina's murky colonial past.
Now Argentina, there's this little matter of the money you owe us... :-p
#63 I agree all empires are bad, to put it mildly, wherever they are based, whatever language they speak. Thats why I think the world would be better off without them, ie I am an anti-imperialist. Are you?
Apr 12th, 2012 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#64 I agree that Argentina has a murky past, though its almost exactly the same on the US had at exactly that time. As Malcolm X said theres no shame in having once been a criminal, only in continuing in crime. By that token Argentina and Latin America are doing betterthan the rest of the world right now
44 Marcos Alejandro
Apr 12th, 2012 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You should take note..... an underfunded military, that didn't have the right equipment but we still managed to re-take the Falklands which the Pentagon said was impossible. that was 30 years ago.... if we did the impossible 30 years ago, imagine what we could do now.....
65 - I wouldnt say anyone in UK is imperialist as we are not trying to claim new territory, unlike the Reichmistress in RG land. Falklands plus South Georgia and outlying islands (which were never part of the spurious claim a few years ago) You must of read the history the 1833 eviction was of a trading venture that asked British Permission to set it up!!! Why as the British if it is ok to land and set up camp if they didnt administer the islands.
Apr 13th, 2012 - 07:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0@67 cLOHO (#)
Apr 13th, 2012 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apr 13th, 2012 - 07:05 am
You haven't read the Argentinian script have you? Didn't you know that the British version of events, as though the events of 1833 were even relevant, are all lies made up by pirates and squatters?
It is always worth mentioning it if you have the time and the inclination because it might make some more thoughtful Argentinians question their own understanding of events surrounding the islands. In general though, the British version of events will make no impression on the viewpoint of a Malvinista at all.
68 - I agree its the head in the sand mentality. Its so so simple the historical and legal facts all point to the falklanders claim. I am getting fed up making the same points as these bloggers are just trolls, prob in the pay of the Kircher Youth. Sad really. PS RG's we had two lovely Typhoons scramble and fly over where i live, lovely sonic boom what a plane :)
Apr 13th, 2012 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@69.
Apr 15th, 2012 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0To qoute our American friends, “The sound of freedom.”
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