MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
“President Rajoy, in Colombia we don’t expropriate, we welcome foreign investment”
Colombian president Juan Manuel Santos welcomed Spanish corporations and guaranteed his visiting Spanish peer Mariano Rajoy that in Colombia there will be no surprises because the country follows the rules of the game: “President Rajoy: here we don’t expropriate”. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesSouth American countries are quickly distancing themselves from Argentina... no sane leader of a country would want to annoy the international community so much... has Cristina been taking advice from Kim Jong-Un by any chance?
Apr 19th, 2012 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rajoy in 2008: “ Handing over oil, gas and energy to a foreign country would make us a fifth division nation, and we will not allow it”:
Apr 19th, 2012 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mq_KVBvyEAE#!
In a conference about selling Repsol to the Russians.
There's a rather large difference between the Spanish selling a company and Argentina illegally stealing a company.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@3. Illegally you say? How is it illegal? Its being discussed by the Argentinean senate which is the body that legislates based on existing laws that they create.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you could point out which laws have been broken please do so and enlighten us all. Repsol will be compensated so this is not “stealing”, and the figure of such compensation has yet to be negotiated so your statement is both wrong and premature.
And if you are referring to international laws, they say nothing about the sovereign right of a country to nationalize industries, provided the private investor is compensated accordingly. Since we don't know how will Repsol be compensated, no laws are being broken.
try again next time.
Ever heard of the International Center for Settlement of Investment Disputes?
Apr 19th, 2012 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'At a news conference, Repsol chairman Antonio Brufau confirmed the leading Spanish oil firm would seek redress with the World Bank’s International Center for Settlement of Investment Disputes. Speaking in Mexico, Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy expressed his “profound discontent” at the move, while his government, which has the backing of the European Union in the dispute, warned of reprisals.
“The Argentinean president yesterday [Monday] carried out an illegal and unjustifiable act after a campaign aimed at pulling down the value of YPF’s shares to pave the way for an expropriation at a sale price,” Brufau said. “By raising the banner of expropriation and in looking for a culprit in YPF, it is seeking to hide the truth.”
http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/04/17/inenglish/1334670734_373391.html
How about you try again now I've enlightened you? Oh and to make it a little bit more simple for you Argentina is a member of the world bank.
Or maybe you know better than the entire legal department of Repsol?
@5. You people champion for neoliberalism and free market economies and then complain when it doesn't work as intended.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentine government didn't pull down the price of YPF. The market did. Governments are in their right to make announcements about their economies, and every announcement they do will inevitable affect the market price of industries. Weather it is an announcement on tax cuts or subsidies or regulation to a particular sector its price will go up or down accordingly.
The best you can hope for here is for “unethical”, but not “illegal” until and if the Center for Settlement and Investment Disputes comes up with a number figure.
Truth is governments do this all the time. I remember during the Bush administration he was repeatedly accused of benefitting certain sectors in which his buddies operated by passing dubious laws.
In the case of Argentina, it would be unethical if you could prove that the government intended to nationalize YPF from the beginning, and hence their warnings to YPF to get their act together were just a scheme to reduce its price. But “illegal”? No.
The government of Argentina is being suspected of malpractice in any case. Whatever the Spanish say right now has no weight at all.
Of course the market pulled down the price of YPF.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 11:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The threat of nationalisation by backward Argentine government would have that affect on any company.
It is totally illegal and Argentine asset freezing should take place across the EU.
@6 Oh yes, you're absolutely right - because of Argentina's impeccable record of truth, honesty and paying its debts we're all convinced that Turkeyneck will ride in on the back of a unicorn and hand over a cheque for the legitimate value of the company she's stolen. Then a host of golden angels will carry her off, while complimenting her entirely natural face.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@7. You people keep tossing the “illegal” word around but I am yet to see the law which specifically states that “no government can take possession of a private industry without making first the down payment demanded by the owners”.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Such law doesn't exist. If it existed, the “International Center for Settlement of Investment Disputes” wouldn't exist, simply because disputes wouldn't arise in the first place.
And why does this body exist? Precisely to mediate these sort of disputes and decide on a fair outcome. Repsol will demand X amount of money, Argentina will say they polluted, they didn't invest, they cleared the company and so on and so forth.
In order to be illegal, there has to be a law being broken. Please show me that law.
The pig country, Spain, in the final stages of her existence.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 09 Troneas (#)
Apr 20th, 2012 - 01:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Apr 20th, 2012 - 12:02 am
You ask what is illegal about this expropiation:
It is illegal because it has been done without the due process which the Constitution of Argentina demands.
1) Private property cannot be taken away without a judicial order (Artículo 17)
2) Expropiation of private property must be indemnified prior to the expropiation. (Artículo 17).
That is where the illegallity comes from, our own Constitution.
It's ok,
Apr 20th, 2012 - 01:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0They're building a huge international coalition of support for the Falklands remember.
lol
The thing that is funny is that even in these Argentinian posters own heads surely they can see that doing something that generally indicates you have a THIRD WORLD DESPOT REGIME on your hands is not very useful for building this glorious coalition that only a few weeks about everyone on these boards was boasting about.
Argentina surely has the most pathetic history of any nation in the last 100 years, how many tens of thousands of Argentinians murdered by their own governments, the same governments that idiots posting here would be CHEERING for.
They keep calling us Pirates, I would far rather be a pirate than a joke.
R
Investment must not only be welcome, but it needs to be controlled, and sometimes if certain companies don't want to be controlled then why should they be welcome???
Apr 20th, 2012 - 02:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0REPSOL left a lot of contaminated areas, as the Argentine intervention investigaes deep into the company more and more contamination and financial speculation transactions are being found. The company worths a lot less every day...
Spain should care about their own citizens, not about a multi-national company like REPSOL, where the shares are owned by investors from different countries.
The REPSOL thing is a good tool for him to try keeping spanish people away from their crisis.
13 fermin (#)
Apr 20th, 2012 - 02:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Apr 20th, 2012 - 02:20 am
The Kirchner Government has been in power since 2002, the very same government that should have been controling Repsol. The same gov. that said that Repsol was a model company only 5 months ago!!!!
@13 No company is going to invest capital in any country that seeks to control how it conducts its business, fact. Companies exist to make money, fact. They are not going to told or influenced by anyone on how they do that, fact. They will go elsewhere, fact.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 05:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fermin is hilarious. Basically some vegetable acting as a medium for the ridiculous arguments of KFC and La Campora.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 07:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fermin, tell us honestly, how much are la campora paying you to be here today? Just give us an approximate figure in pesos, food or dollars.
11 - I wouldn't worry about the constitution, Argentina can change it to say whatever they want. Ole turkeyneck is only continuing the great Argentinian Kleptocracy tradition.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 07:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0More of that South American solidarity Argentinians on this site are always boasting about. Columbia is making its position known here.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 07:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Foreign investors, invest in Columbia and we won't steal your money like Argentina. This will create jobs in Columbia, and the standard of living will increase for their people. Unfortunately in Argentina the opposite will be happening.
Good on Columbia, why should they sacrifice their own economy for the sake of supporting CFKs suicidal plans?
Yes, there has been left a 'contaminated area'. (#13)
Apr 20th, 2012 - 08:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0But it is the sort of contamination akin to Chernobyl.
An economic killing zone, where the notices around the nation's border say:
“Do not enter.
Hazardous economic environment.
Long-term Danger”.
#1 “South American countries are quickly distancing themselves from Argentina”
Apr 20th, 2012 - 09:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Actually its Colombia thats isolated in South America, as the last oligarchic pro-imperialist death squad regime still standing
“has Cristina been taking advice from Kim Jong-Un”
Do you really think that 20 something, with no life experience, parachuted into power solely on heredity, is in a position to advise anyone, let alone a politician and activist as experienced as Cristina?!
#13 “Spain should care about their own citizens, not about a multi-national company like REPSOL, where the shares are owned by investors from different countries.
The REPSOL thing is a good tool for him to try keeping spanish people away from their crisis.”
Spain should care about their own citizens, not about a multi-national company like REPSOL, where the shares are owned by investors from different countries.
The REPSOL thing is a good tool for him to try keeping spanish people away from their crisis.”
Very good analysis
Colombia has any foreign assets to expropriate them ...??
Apr 20th, 2012 - 09:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0#3
Apr 20th, 2012 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0You want to know why expropriation of Repsol's shares in YPF is illegal?Look at the Bilateral Investment Treaty between Argentina and Spain, and in particular at Article III and Article IV. Expropriating Repsol's shares, but not those of a certain wealthy Argentinian family group known to be close to the regime, is a clearly discriminatory move, and as such in clear contravention of this treaty, as the inevitable ICSID arbitration will no doubt confirm.
@4. Illegally you say? How is it illegal? Its being discussed by the Argentinean senate which is the body that legislates based on existing laws that they create.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing is illigal for the argentine government, if they want something they just write it into their constitution that they can take it.
@13 Let's use a little bit of logic. Probably not your strong point, but we can but try.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0“REPSOL left a lot of contaminated areas” Really? Then why has the argie government done nothing about until now? Too busy screaming about a place 400 miles away that doesn't belong to them, perhaps? Or perhaps, too busy hiding the kickbacks.
“as the Argentine intervention investigaes deep into the company more and more contamination and financial speculation transactions are being found.” Wow, that is amazing. Four days and all these things are being “found”. Of course they are. The question is; will the same things be found in the Spanish copies of the company's records? That's the thing about a subsidiary. It has to copy everything to the parent company.
“Spain should care about their own citizens, not about a multi-national company like REPSOL, where the shares are owned by investors from different countries.” Strange that you should say that, as Repsol pays its taxes in Spain. An excellent reason for the Spanish government to be concerned. But then I doubt that the Spanish government, now composed of the Popular Party, subscribes to the CFK mantra of ”Steal anything that isn't nailed down and say it is for the people. (Less my 25% cut)“.
That would be like the Falklands is a good tool for her to try keeping argie people away from their crises. Like 1 70s peso being worth 10 million current pesos. Or like 25-30% inflation. Or like the ”support” over the Falklands that is gradually falling away. (Chile, Colombia, Peru and Uruguay may talk the talk, but will they walk the walk? Probably not.)
There is a clue in the remarks @20. A brilliant comment characterised by the poster's ability to copy and paste your own words. The clue is in the last three words. See a (psycho) analyst!
13 fermin
Apr 20th, 2012 - 11:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0You've been brainwashed as well haven't you? You have no thoughts of you own, just all the lies and self serving bile put out by KFC and her cronies.
Have you read what Simon68 wrote immediately after you? No there is one Argentinian who makes sense AND who has got a memory of more than 7 seconds.
KFC is killing your country right in front of you and getting you to hate other countries while she does it!!
As rage-against-the-machine said:- “Wake up!!!”
“Follow rules of the game”, and there you go, not our words the words of Argentinas buddy Colombia, theres nothing like south american unity.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@26 The rules of the game in Argentina are 'there are no rules', that's why she can expropriate a company by decree, going against the constitution and previous bilateral agreements with other supposedly friendly countries.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The key here, is to avoid Argentina like the bubonic plague, unless you happen to manage some ridiculous fund that doesn't want any growth coupled to a huge amount of risk.
If you are not paying the local cop on the bea , the police chief, the mayor, the governor, the senators all the way up to whoever may have some sort of control over your business you will fail in Argentina.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Time and time again this is proven, those with connections do well those without fail. When the company fails the gov't puts in their own people with whatever is left.
People forget because they have hope but the FDI is destroyed until CFK is gone. Money will continue to leak out, factories will close unemployed will increase and yet again the next generation will be poorer than the last.
My guess is peso 10/1 by eoy.
#20 SOrry I seem to have pasted fermin's very good analysis twice, oops!
Apr 20th, 2012 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@4 Troneas
Apr 20th, 2012 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Compensation should be AGREED beforehand and paid upon taking over the company.
Seizing the company first, then dictating what if anything is to be paid afterwards is banditry pure and simple, stealing.
@6 Troneas
Your government has said compensation will be decided by a tribunal in the Argentinian courts, not the CSID. Do you think this is fair or right.
“Whatever the Spanish say right now has no weight at all.”
They obviously have far more real support for this than Argentina has for its Malvinas cause.
@13 fermin
What is being controlled here is what you are allowed to think, and you just don’t see it.
Which in some ways is more of a reflection on you, than on those writing the scripts.
Unemployment does not seem to concern them. Why should it, they will only lie about the rate of unemployment anyway. I predict nothing will change until they revert back to a nation of hunter gatherers. Seriously no joke intended,
Apr 20th, 2012 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think its time for a photo bucket of Mendoza, pictures of the last 6-12 months. Perhaps that will bring some sense of shame to all the posters here who want to portray Argentina as somewhere between Moldova and Zimbabwe, just south of Bangladesh.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@31 reality check: haha “The Government lies about statics” is always the zero-grounded excuse to deny reality. Why do you think Argentinians that had emigrated to Europe during the 2001 crisis are comming back if there is so much unemployment here in Argentina as you say??...
Apr 21st, 2012 - 06:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Corporate media has been predicting a black future for argentina since 2001 and we have experienced an economic boom at chineese rates... You should change your information sources. Or at least complement them with another ones.
Corporate boom at chinese rates. Man you are off your tiny little head. Corporate boom at chinese rates. You honestly have the balls to come on here and compare your economy with Chinas. Sad, whats even sadder is, you probably believe it. Corporate boom at Chinese rates. next thing you will be saying it was you and not the yanks that landed on the moon. Gobsmacked, absolutely gobsmacked.
Apr 21st, 2012 - 07:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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