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Montevideo, January 17th 2022 - 22:59 UTC



Fitch warns Argentina on “growing diplomatic isolation” and “investment shortages”

Saturday, April 21st 2012 - 07:36 UTC
Full article 242 comments

In an article posted on the Fitch Wire credit market commentary page the rating agency slammed Argentina for its government’s decision to seize a majority stake in YPF from Spain’s Repsol as announced by President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner on Monday. Read full article


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  • Think

    Sorry Fitchy.....

    Argentina is not interested in receiving leechy “Foreign Investment”.
    Argentina is not interested in rejoining the “Debt Circus” any time soon.
    Argentina is not interested in abandoning its unorthodox government policies.

    Got that?

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    2 think

    I'm with you on this one thinky boy. Argentina should continue down this route.

    Time to cut off the LAN flight to the Falklands also.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 08:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Nightingale

    as the loneliness starts to kick in...

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 08:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • cLOHO

    1 - Yep continue on this route chaps ...your economic collapse will come quicker. P.s Troll did the Kircher youth drop off your food parcel or cash today.

    2 - Think we have sorted another route for a flight ta, so please cancel. Next move!!!!
    RG land is destroying itself and its so funny, RG paid Trolls post on news sites, and this is your only policy. Good luck with your 25 percent inflation and defauled loans, and new trade restrictions, plus lack of investment in your broken economy.

    ps I would of nationalised the oil company after it had finished its development of your huge untapped resources. Now RG's will have to finance it. Maybe they could borrow the money...oops sorry forgot nobodgy will lend to you. Good luck with the economy trolls.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 08:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Retroqqq

    If Argentina keeps a balanced Current account and gov. budget they will never collapse.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    Well done my Queen for not being a slave of these “ratings agencies” the way our governments are in Europe, as Think said why would Argentina want to rejoin the debt crisis?! Ti amo mi reina, besos =)

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • cLOHO

    RG's borrow and dont repay, why woud RG's want to rejoin debt crisis ...answer to repay your defaulted loans and borrow cash to prop up failing economy. This is gold...your Reichmistress will speed up you ultimate already isolated on the world stage with olny despots as friends. Truly the new Zimbawe

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Haha Think, you really are that stupid.

    “Argentina is not interested in receiving leechy “Foreign Investment”.
    Argentina is not interested in rejoining the “Debt Circus” any time soon.
    Argentina is not interested in abandoning its unorthodox government policies.”

    Meanwhile back in the real world, you do realise what will happen to Argentina should all investors leave it? Actually probably not, I'm giving you too much credit there....

    As for the debt circus, Argentina is not invited since it defaulted and refused to pay back the money it owes to other countries and organisations, so it really doesn't matter if you are interested or not, you have been banned from the worldwide money markets.

    Argentina is truly a country in melt-down.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Retroqqq

    Argentina will invest in Argentina.

    come on Xect, paper debt is not real wealth you know that. look what happened with Greece, they replaced their industries with paper wealth from German and French banks. they felt rich for a while but now the dream is dead.

    factories and industries and all kind of jobs are the real wealth. Argentina will not collapse.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    The problem Argentina has it needs investment if it is going to play in world markets.

    Argentina cannot invest in Argentina as Argentina has no money to do so.

    Not to mention Argentina has run-away inflation, massive economic degradation due to foreign investment leaving Argentina (over 70% down last year), trade policies that are designed to stop money leaving the country and no access to money markets.

    One significant aspect of Argentina's growth has been its investment in its public sector and government spending, however with no money left Argentina cannot keep spending and it cannot borrow due to being locked out of the money markets apart from the WCB. It's unlikely to be able to get any more money from the WCB since most countries have said they will veto loans.

    So essentially you have a country with no access to funding, trade restrictions that damage businesses like the factories you speak of; example Fiat having to stop production because of the trade policies stopping parts from entering the country or the ports that are over 60% down in traffic.

    Like it or not but manufacturing industries need access to the correct money markets and not having trade restrictions in place.

    YPF is another example of the level of desperation of the Argentine government, they are backed into a corner, cannot afford to pay for fuel at its usual market rate so have taken over YPF in a desperate attempt to produce more fuel and reduce trade imports that the government/economy cannot afford.

    To say Argentina's economy is in anything but a meltdown is to not be honest about the situation.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • cLOHO

    9 - Just try to keep your 25% inflation under control and you may be ok. Its always a sign of a stable economy when they ban the movement out of the country of money! deafault on loans, steal companies, lie and refuse to publish economic performance figure. Why wont they publish the figures, and dont reply because we dont have to!! the only reason is because your broke and Reichmistress is hiding the bad news from the population. Rise up Kircher Youth and keep paying for votes!!
    To use a favourite Troll statement RG's are finished JAJAJAJA

    never understood that jaja thing, they sure laugh funny in RG land, maybe they cant afford to use the letter H or summit, any ho must go. Good luck with your economic meltdown.

    Troll response page 2, paragraph 4...please end mail with English Pirate Ja ja ja

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Retroqqq

    look Xect its simple

    Argentina has X capabilities and potential. German has Z and Greece has B.

    At their current situation this is what they need, it may be right it may be wrong. the truth is you cant get something from nothing. everyone gets what they deserve.

    what you say is not wrong or right, but you are very biased and a scaremonger.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Retroqqq, I think you have no answer to my analysis.

    Capabilities and potential actually are about 20% of the argument given the world economy isn't based soley on resources.

    If Argentine can undo the damage done by CFK's policies and bring in a modern progressive leader it could potentially do very well. It would need to spend at least 10 years paying off debts and restoring its reputation.

    If it could do that it is a extremely rich country in terms of resources and if it focus's on doing the right things it could have a impressive economy but this would take quite sometime.

    Argentina should absolutely be a wealthy country, its only down to mismanagement by the government it is not.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Retroqqq

    ok xect you might right but never be so dogmatic, life is not black and white.

    the truth will shine through, and we will see if the result was good or bad :)

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Fair enough, I maybe overly dogmatic.

    I'd love to see Argentina drop the hostilities towards the UK/Falkland's and see it focus on its economy and for it and the people to become wealthy.

    I have nothing against anyone Argentine and would like to see the UK/Falkland's and Argentina live in peace.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    Im just dumbstruck by the Argentine attitudes on stating that ratings agencies and foreign investment is irrelevant. What planet do these guys live on, who will lend them anything anymore if they are just going to not pay it back and assume ownership of foreign investments when it suits them. I think that now they know the world isnt going to support their erroneous claim of the Falklands, they are now just sticking two fingers up and doing what they want.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Retroqqq

    cause China will invest. Argentina corruption is nothing for the Chinese.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • xbarilox

    Fitch warns blah blah blah, do these guys really believe the Argentine government care what they say? :(

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    @17 China is a ruthless country which will suit itself, they have no empathy nor do they care about their own people let alone yours. There is always a price to pay when you pact with the devil. Besides they are cracks appearing in the chinese economy, its not wise to put all your eggs in one basket. Your best bet was the US, but they no longer trust you.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Comment No.: (1) explained for British Turnips and other Dummies.

    1) Argentina needs “Leechy Foreign Investment” as much as you British Turnips need an extra 10 million long bearded, unemployable Pakistanis.

    2) Argentina needs “International Credits” as much as you British Turnips need a third mortgage on your homes.

    3) Argentina’s Unorthodox Government Policies have, since 2003, got our Country out of total chaos and bankruptcy and safe through the worst Economical World Crisis since 1930.
    What about UK’s Orthodox Government Policies?

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Lets think about this then eh Think?

    The UK economy is worth 2,400m and Argentina's is 440m yet the UK has less than 20m more people so which model do you think works better?

    The UK's inflation during 2011 was about 5%, Argentina's over 25%

    The UK has the highest credit rating in the world, Argentina has junk grade credit

    The UK's economy has been one of the most stable in the world, Argentina in contrast defaulted in 2001 and has shown to be highly unstable.

    The UK has the 6th/7th largest economy in the world with very little natural resources, Argentina has an abundance of resources yet is 27th in the list.

    Which policies do you think anyone with half a brain would choose?

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tobers


    You seem to be partial to poetry at times.

    Didn-t someone say that - No man is an island-

    Being closed off, not wanting to listen, interact or share with others - as a country or individual - is not something to be proud of. Not very humanitarian is it. Or are you suggesting Argentines are superior to everyone else? Bit nazi-ish isnt it?

    I really think Argentina-s greatest problem is irresponsibilty. I guess years and years of fervent nationalism teaches people to be dependent on
    somebody/thing else and hide within it's country overcoat everytime things get a little testing.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Some Turnips can't read....
    I repeat.................................... Again

    3) (Since 2003) Argentina’s Unorthodox (since 2003) Government Policies (since 2003) have, since 2003, got our Country (since 2003) out of total chaos (since 2003) and bankruptcy (since 2003) and safe (since 2003) through the worst (since 2003)Economical World Crisis since 1930.
    What about UK’s (since 2003) Orthodox Government Policies (since 2003)??

    Did I remember to write...: (since 2003)?

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    #18 xbarilox
    THEY should care what is said. What Fitch, Moody, S&P, the IMF, the WTO, the UE, NAFTA.... all seem to be coming to a consensus is that Argentina is not playing by the rules. The cute little games like maintaining Big Mac hamburger prices low and distorting other key economic indicators haven't fooled anyone. Perhaps for the short-term CFK can maintain her popularity by focusing the nation on recovering their petroleum reserves and so forth, but no nation can sustain this nightmare more than 14 months, without someone coming in with another bailout. Last time when Argentina defaulted on its sovereign debt, experts were surprised with the entry of Venezuela. That for obvious reasons, will not happen again. However, unless China bails out Argentina, the only other alternative is economic collapse.
    Mind you, Argentina will still be able to feed its populace well, fuel its transport and continue to export its grains. No one will starve and the wealthy will continue to be wealthy, but it will not be a very happy place to live.
    There are a number of countries unhappy with Argentina, including Spain, Italy, the UK, France, the USA, S.Korea, and the list continues... They will cause trade reciprocity that will damage your markets for non-grain and hydrocarbon exports. (China will buy all you can produce.)
    Who is Fitch? The answer is your worst nightmare when they develop a poor opinion of your financial situation. For myself, other than my concern for my Argentine friends, this is actually good news as in a year I'll be vacationing there and enjoying exceptional good food and wine, as well as staying at 5 star hotels and paying a pittance. Bargain shoes, clothes, leather goods... ( I've experienced the same situation three times in my life before.)

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    21 - Think.

    I think you are confused, are you even aware of Argentina's economy at the moment?

    Inflation at over 25%, foreign investment leaving the country as fast as possible, hiding economic figures from the IMF, nationalising companies because you can't afford to buy the fuel on the open market.... I could go on if you'd like me too?

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Doveoverdover

    @23 Fortunately, based on close observation from the fall of the Berlin Wall to today, UK hasn't been in total chaos, bankrupt or particularly unsafe. 2003 to 2012 has been a particularly rewarding time for those of us with regular incomes and owner occupied houses (with or without third mortgages).

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (22) Tobers

    Well done Mr. Tobers.........

    In your very first attempted to contact me, you managed to insert a comment about me being a bit Nazi-ish……………

    You will excuse me if I, invoking Godwin’s Law..:

    ....include herewith your name in my list of Turnips.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tobers


    Definition of Nazism (Free Dictionary - Farlex)

    The ideology and practice of the Nazis, especially the policy of racist nationalism, national expansion, and state control of the economy.

    A form of socialism featuring racism and expansionism and obedience to a strong leader

    If it walks like a nazi , talks like a nazi, smells a like a nazi...Its probably a nazi .

    Really, I couldnt give a flying monkeys about -Godwins Law-

    Nazism is shit and needs to confronted at all costs.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    I'm glad to see argies ignoring rating agencies, the EU, the IMF, the US, the rest of the world. I expect CFK has had “a vision”.

    Why point out what a bunch of cretins they are? Just a marker to ensure no-one accepts any argie “economic migrants” or “refugees”. Argieland is a well-publicised “democracy”. No need for “refugees”. Argieland has “a growing, dynamic economy”. No need for “economic migrants”. For the best, no argies outside their legal territorial boundaries. At the least, no argies outside south america.

    Argies should pay proper attention to British_Kirchnerist and his Queer. How could anyone deny Burger King and his potato salad.

    @9 Look around. Argieland has already “collapsed”. Rail trains that “crash”. Buses that drive off “roads”. Airlines full of rust.

    @12 Glad to hear what you say. “everyone gets what they deserve.” Excellent. So argieland will get squat.

    @14 How will you know? “Truth” isn't something an argie would recognise if it was chewing his/her/its face off.

    @17 You mean China “may” buy argieland. Just how much of “your” cuntry do you think china is going to leave you?

    @18 Of course not. Why would we care? Do your own thing. Of course you're right. You've only got a currency worth one ten millionth of what it was worth 40 years ago. An inflation rate in excess of 25% (Britain's is less than 5%). Few real friends. The “disgust” of a large part of the planet. The “embarrassment” of having your “government”.

    So good for the planet having a bunch of argie retards. Really cuts down on the need for retards elsewhere.

    @20 Of course argieland doesn't need “investment”. In a “quiet, secret place” it has the money tree. Yah!

    @23 And how much is your “money” really worth now? Ten millionth of what it used to be worth? A millionth of what it used to be worth? Isn't it “backed” by the argie central bank? So it's actually worth zilch. Any cretin can add zeros. And argieland IS full of cretins.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (28) Tobers

    What an heroic Anti-Nazi approach...

    Why don’t you try to focus some of your excellent Humanistic Anti Fascistic principles into stopping an Atomic Armed Bullying Nation (Yes, the UK) from stealing 12,000,000 square km of South-Atlantic territory from a Third Word Country (Yes, Argentina) hiding under the skirts of 2.500 implanted British Squatters?

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Ken Ridge

    No need to say more Xect, your words are wasted on el thinko, he is somewhat blinded by nationalism & his love of Cristina.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tobers

    Unlike you and your fellow deluded souls I like many of my fellow countrymen dont deny that my country has a history full of shameful incidents and that theres always room to improve. Like virtually all countries. Maybe Bhutan doesnt. Need to check that. Most Argentinians - thanks to nationalism - cant admit to their countries numerous shameful incidents and policies etc and say -Fair-s fair. We got this wrong lets learn from this...-

    We are not talking mostly in absolute terms but relative terms. There is corruption in my country but not to the extent as Argentina There is poverty but not to the extent in Argentina. Inflation is high at the moment (less than 4%) but not the extent as in Argentina (at least 25% and rising). Try bribing a cop in my country and see what happens...
    etc etc etc

    And for Argentinians like you to be blaming everyone else for its country-s problems when it is one of the luckiest countries in the world for natural resources per capita is childish and irresponsible. Argentina has about twice the amount of land per person than that of an American and 15 - 20 times more than western European countries have. Thats why they all went off looking for new lands. Argentina doesnt need to and yet whinges constantly about the Las Malvinas and the South Atlantic.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussie sunshine

    I think there is going to be another mass immigration from Argentines to Europe very soon...

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Let's remember how Argentina is judged by the antis.

    Let's say you have a football league (soccer, American, Aussie, Argentine Pato, whatever). There's 20 teams. Your team ends fifth in the league...

    So the fans of the four better teams come online and start jeering “your team is the worst, you are worthless, you are a joke”.

    Are you really the worst?
    Are you really bad?
    Are you really a joke?

    Argentina is 44th out of 200 nations in standard of living. But notice the antis always compare UP (against the 26-30 EU nations, against North America, against the handful of Asian nations that are developed i.e Japan, South Korea and Taiwan), a couple of gulf oil states, and microstates who can just with a few bank accounts rise to the top of the rankings, to bash Argentina.

    They NEVER compare Argentina to the rest of Latin America, to the vast majority of the Middle East, to sub-saharan Africa, to the Indian subcontinent, toSE Asia, to Central Asia, to the former USSR, to the South Pacific... even some countries in Eeastern Europe.

    They claim to be fair, but are they really? :)

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    Argentina can and will invest in Argentina because we have a bank that controls the flow of money, we don't need crédit we rather live withing our means. We have Experience dealing with IMF and it's over we learned enough thanks but no thanks.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    35. Can you please give me an example of a successful Argentinian state run, state funded organizations? Just one? If you want you can go back all the way to Peron's take overs.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias


    I agree there are not many, but you wanted one.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    I wish Fitch could see how isolated we are, if you read what people say and think of Argentine's I don't think isolation is such a bad thing. I am starting to think isolation is a Blessing in disguise, some coments in here give a new meaning to the phrase “with friends like this, who needs enemies?”

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Ken Ridge

    34 tobias

    ”So the fans of the four better teams come online and start jeering “your team is the worst, you are worthless, you are a joke”.

    Well you did pick the fight...

    You restarted the sabre rattling over the Falklands.

    You labeled us english pigs & pirates.

    You started harrasing a peacefull population.

    What did you expect?

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias


    But then you can't claim to be fair or impartial or telling the whole truth, like it is said here. If we argies are in the mud and you come down to the pit with us, you may be right but you are still muddy at that point.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    #38 You and the People's Republic of Korea have the same feeling of being ever so lonely. It's what happens when you become a pariah state. Isolation can be very beneficial for maintaining control.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    INVAP is TINY 600 people is not a lot is it profitable?

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias


    I may be against a lot of what CFK does, but I'm pro-isolationism too. I have never hidden that.

    Argentina may not be trusted by others with good reasons. But we have good reasons not to trust the rest of the world too. Most problems Argentina may have (as with any country) are the responsibility of the citizens, but I also do believe the rest of the world has always wanted to keep Latin America, and especially Argentina, poor.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Anyone know if CFK has secured the LNG necessary to keep the country running and it''s people warm? BA is getting chilly Brrrr

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias


    You are shifting from gripe to gripe in a discursive, desultory performance. You seem a bit desperate this morning for a fight.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    32) Tobers

    What a Turnipy way of dodging the straight forward, one million dollars question……:

    Why don’t you....., ohhh haughty and heroic self proclaimed Anti-Nazi Brit try to stop an Atomic Armed Bullying Nation (the UK) from stealing 12,000,000 square km of South-Atlantic territory from a Third Word Country (Argentina) hiding under the skirts of 2.500 implanted British Squatters?

    Or, even a better Question….:

    Why are you in favor, ohhh haughty and heroic self proclaimed Anti-Nazi of an Atomic Armed Bullying Nation (The UK) stealing 12,000,000 square km of South-Atlantic territory from a Third Word Country (Argentina) hiding under the skirts of 2.500 implanted British Squatters?

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DJ56

    I am amazed by the number of Argentinian posters who don't seem to understand that isolationism of this type has only one ending .... and for an example of that, see North Korea.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    47. Don't you know they think it worked out well for them in the 50-90s. They were so happy to get color TV in 1978!!
    Can you imagine what the computing/telephony equipment will look like in 10 yrs! They're already behind the curve with a blackberry as their best available smartphone.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    US. Navy
    How to be kind to Argies .

    great only joking, but you will get the punt .,

    CFK you need cycle power,

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • PirateLove

    Its All GOOD!!!

    wonder how many straws it will take to break this camels back?

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    as three is a crowd

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (48) Tsk tsk……Mr. Fredbdc….

    Don’t start with your porkies………..

    I’m typing this on my Samsung Galaxy Xcover, that did cost me in Trelew, Chubut, a wee more than one third of the price those snobbish Apple people are asking for an Iphone 4……

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    52, Do they still sell that phone in Argentina? Is it considered the newest technology or did you get it free with a plan? If not did it cost you 1 or 2 months of your salary?
    Can you use Patacones to buy stuff like that?

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    #48 see my point now?? Don't forget to mention the blackberry playbook nifty little gadget. But I must admit that I can get a lot more productivity from my laptop, do you know if Samsung makes laptops??

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (53) Fredbdc

    You obviously don’t know anything about smartphones………...either...
    The Galaxy Xcover is still “top of the line” in rugged smartphones...
    And more than good enough for my humble needs.
    Has survived a year of volcanic ashes in my saddlebags…
    Some (many) slips into the water while fly-fishing...(Must remember to get new felt soles for the waders………………..)
    And even being tramped by my old faithful stallion!

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    55. We have roads and cars in the USA we don't have to have a rugged phones.
    Did it cost 1 or 3 months of salary? Can you use Patacones to buy them?

    Did CFK secure LNG shipments or have they already started having blackouts in BA? And if not when do they expect them sometime next month? I heard they have had to idle factories already this season it's pretty early for that don't you THINK?

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    46 Think

    What's up? Won't he answer your question? You hypocrite.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    55. Oh couple more questions, did you have to resort to horseback because they raised taxi fares ANOTHER 25% this week?
    When gas, electricity, taxes, water ummm food, nat gas go up 3-4% a month do they automatically raise your pension to keep up with the change or only 1x a year? And if only 1x year do they use the p/y inflation number or the PROJECTED number for the next year? Does it also adjust for a daily devaluation of the peso in relation to the U$ or does your real salary just fall every month and you are fine with that?

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (57) Joe Bloggs

    Maybe you would like tohave a go at the “Million Dollar Question”....:

    Why are you....., ohhh Haughty Implanted British Squatter aiding an Atomic Armed, Bullying Nation (the UK) to steal 12,000,000 square km of South-Atlantic territory from a Third Word Country (Argentina) hiding under the skirts of 2.500 implanted British Squatters?

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    59 Think

    LOL! ...and you were typing something about respect just a short while ago. Your question has no justification and you know it. Hence all of these Mercopress stories and debates.

    However the question YOU will not answer is a simple one. Is everything back to normal at the ports? As you know I refer to the Mercopress story about the effects of import restrictions on the everyday workers who drive the trucks and work for customs. You claim that Mercopress are making something out of nothing over this story because the blockade was over before the story went on the site.

    We have the Falklands and you never will Thinky boy. S.A.R.A Think, S.A.R.A. You are still bouncing between the first A and R. Eventually you'll get to the second A.





    Apr 21st, 2012 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (60) Joe Bloggs

    My little “question” about the UK ambitions of domination of 12,000,000 square km in the South Atlantic is not only “justified”...

    It is the very vortex of the whole conflict.

    You Islanders don't “just” want to live in peace ...

    You Islanders want the UK to dominate 12,000,000 square km of South Atlantic territory, a quarter of the Antarctic Continent AND live in peace......

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Think can you PLEASE answer my simple questions. I don't get RG economics or logic...I need some help come does the increase in pension work???

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    61 think

    To answer your question: I don't want the UK to control the South Atlantic.

    Now answer my very simple question or is your bouncing back and forth between anger and resentment too overwhelming? It will eventually ease and then you'll slide into acceptance. Don't worry.

    Are you coming over to visit one last time before the LAN flight stops?

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Doveoverdover

    @61 As you know, I can't help agreeing with you when you are right. Both parties (UK and Argentina) want the same thing and the South Atlantic Islands are clearly the key so long as the Antarctic Treaty holds, the UN is a talking shop and the US is neutral. The only real difference is that UK is the administering power and Argentina isn't. So, since oil is now added to the potent mix of Anglo motivations, why can't you and Argentina just get over it?

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    The British only wish to live in peace, they move up and down in international waters, and have no wish to control any water, especial the kind that moves with the tide,

    It is only an [x] 2nd rate country still living the dream of empire like Argentina’s CFK that wishes to not only control the whole of the south Atlantic, but all the land that goes with it, including Antarctica, all on the false assumption that the British are aggressive,

    But in fact it is CFK and her corrupt government using innocent victims like the islanders and the British government, as a diversion to their incompetence and corruption.
    This must in fact be true, for if it was not, then Argentina would not be so aggressive to steal what is clearly not hers, and trying to throw all nations whoever they may be, from entering or loitering in the south Atlantic,
    Envy and jealousy is hard to live with, especially when you are a corrupt thief and abuser of your own people .


    Apr 21st, 2012 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Doveoverdover

    I've associated myself with the view that this whole YPF/Repsol thing is really a semi-sophisticated attempt to sow doubt in the minds of oil companies thinking of joining the great Falklands Oil Bonanza. It suggests that if they invest in “Argentina” without the interests of Argentina at the forefront then the moment Argentina regains its pre 1833 territorial integrity, all foreign oil assets will be expropriated. I can see just one flaw in this argument but it is a very big one....

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    it will never happen

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Doveoverdover

    it will never happen

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • McClick

    | 21 |
    Argentina is a vile country..why don't you compare UK with weighty rivals France,Italy,Poland,Holland,Belgium... instead of comparing Giraffe with Zebra

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (63) Joe Bloggs
    You say:
    “I don't want the UK to control the South Atlantic.”

    I say:
    You certainly hide your dislike of British control over the South Atlantic quite well….
    You definitely fooled me….

    (64) Cmd McDod
    Always sickening healthy to listen to your humblingly haughty, deadly serious wittiness.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    70 Think

    You still can't answer a simple question can you and yet you berate others for not answering yours. No more time spent on you.

    Oxygen thief.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    69 McClick (#)
    Argentina is a vile country

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    #58. Can a 400% increase on the price of eggs alone be considered something that needs to be shared? And to be fair, eggs is to EU as yerba mate is to Argentina, welcome to the new world.“The price of eggs on the EU wholesale market has nearly quadrupled over the past week as food manufacturers are struggling to find approved eggs”

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    we pay abt £1.00 at tesco for a dozen eggs.

    where do you get your info from, an argentine supermarket

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    69 McClick

    This reminds me of an episode of the Young Ones from the 80s. Who remembers the one when they got their exam results from the postman? After realising how badly they'd done overall Neil asked in his best hippy accent “who came top out of us?” to which the postman answered “you did Neil”. All day Neil kept saying “I came top out of us!”.


    Apr 21st, 2012 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    He probably don’t know who they are .
    But you never know

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    The best time to squeeze foreign companies is when the hard work of investment and exploration is over and a state-owned oil company can reap the benefits. It is not when your country has deep fiscal problems, no access to international capital markets and a looming investment challenge.

    YPF is no doubt in better shape after 13 years, many of them vexed, under the ownership of Repsol. But it and the Argentine government must now develop its huge shale gas discovery at Vaca Muerta (Dead Cow) without a western oil major to provide capital, technology and someone to blame.

    This ignores some salient facts. One is that Argentina’s fields were discovered in 1907 and, like mature fields in the US and elsewhere, are slowly running out of oil. A company can upgrade its extraction techniques – as YPF has been doing – but cannot alter time and geology.

    Since Néstor Kirchner, Ms Fernández’s late husband, gained power in 2003, Argentina has also turned itself into an unattractive place for an oil company to invest. It has capped domestic fuel prices and held the wholesale price it pays to YPF below the global level – an incentive for Repsol to invest in more promising and less interfering places, such as Brazil.

    The Kirchners were a driving force in the dividend policy – Repsol lent money to Petersen Energia, which is controlled by the Eskenazi family, to acquire a 25 per cent stake in YPF when the Eskenazis were close to Mr Kirchner. The dividend was needed for Petersen to repay the loan but Ms Fernández has now fallen out with the Eskenazis.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (75) Joe Bloggs

    Do you remember or ever noticed the “Mister Malvinas” part?

    Listen carefully at 0:09 and 0:20 :-)))

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    There is a good book waiting to be written about the Kirchner - Repsol - Petersen Energia, Eskenazi family -YPF mess. Certainly the chapter on how and why it's a very bad idea to upset Ms Fernández.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    The economy was open in 4 years in 1990. It lead to massive unemployment, which is why the open economy experiment failed.

    The economy should have been opened much more slowly, over a decade or two... That's why many in Argentina are isolationists now.

    I'm isoloationist not in trade, just in foreign relations. I have no problem buying foreign goods and exporting them. I have no problem learning about other cultures... I don't think it is in Argentina's interest to be diplomatically too friendly with anyone however.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    “Viva Argentina! Why it’s right to nationalise companies for its interests”

    “Argentina went through austerity and privatisation during the 90s, which worsened the economy and led it to default. This is when YPF was privatised. Since Argentina defaulted on its debts, against the advice of ‘international community’, and reversed neo-liberalism, it has been growing strongly.

    The same neo-liberalism of austerity and privatisation is being being pushed throughout Europe now, causing further recession in countries such as Spain and Greece
    But in Argentina this doesn’t wash. People are praising Argentina for standing up to Big Business and looking after its own. I hope Europeans learn from it and start doing the same”

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    You know any site that has a URL of is going to post dubious one sided arguments.

    'The nationalisation of a privatised company goes in the exact opposite direction to Neoliberal dogma. It says, ‘you’ll create growth by selling off everything you own to private hands’, and the Argentinian government believe they can create growth by running things themselves.'

    From the very same argument. Actually using that example privatizing YPF did work, it went from a hopeless government entity losing money to a prosperous company that even as little as 6 months ago was being described by the Argentine government as 'a model company'. The model used is, it provides for the government in paying its taxes and in Argentina's case it also obeyed the ridiculous fuel caps that disadvantaged it vs the world market. It even invested 11 billion on development over the past 5 years which by oil standards is more than reasonable.

    Lets not pretend this is anything but a desperate effort by the Argentine government to raise cash and increase production. It is guaranteed unless the Argentine government can get help from a major oil company and investment YPF is once again going to turn into a hopeless loss making entity.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think


    Title of the article says:
    ”Fitch warns Argentina on “growing diplomatic isolation”

    I say:
    Yesterday, the IMF said they don’t want any problems, the YPF nationalization is a bilateral problem between Spain and Argentina.

    Today, the G20 said they don’t want any problems, the YPF nationalization is a bilateral problem between Spain and Argentina.

    Yesterday, Brazil committed itself to invest between 1 to 2 billion dollars in Argentina’s petrochemical industry.

    Today, the 130 countries of the G77 + China meting in Qatar asked Great Britain to sit and negotiate about the Malvinas Issue with Argentina.

    Yesterday the French 0il company Total showed more than great interest in filling the vacuum left by our good friends the Spaniards from Repsol.

    Today the BRICS Countries reaffirmed their full commitment and alignment with Argentina.

    ” Growing diplomatic isolation” …… left foot!

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Are you kidding? Everyone wants your oil and grains. They're hot commodities. You'll always be able to sell them. However, your manufactured goods, wine, olive oil, meat, etc... will be increasingly difficult. Live in your world of fantasy, but the crash is coming...

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    The crash is coming............. The crash is coming.............
    What a somber shileno you are weón...
    Capitalino hay de ser tú.

    Apr 21st, 2012 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger


    I don’t know from what source you get your data but US and EU in terms of exports are irrelevant for Argentina. This is not new and it is happening since long, long time ago.

    The only country with important trade with Argentina in Europe is Germany. That represents 5% of imports for Argentina’s trade account. And US represent 13.8% in the import account and 5.4% for exports.

    So now think a bit... do you think that Germany or US will allow to lose billions of dollars in surplus trade with Argentina to help Idiots Raptors Spanish with delirious greatness?

    Well I will tell you the answer, Nope.

    Argentina Import partners: Brazil 34.5%, US 13.8%, China 11.4%, Germany 5%
    Argentina Export partners: Brazil 21.2%, China 9.1%, Chile 7%, US 5.4%.

    So tell me please, how can Europe hurts Argentina by restricting her imports to Europe without suffering more in the process?

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Dime como qerai, soy un roto chileno a mucha honrra.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    Now they take it seriously...
    21 Apr 2012
    “The Government, in a move designed to ease concern among the investment community about the Argentine legal threats, has written to some 15 banks and oil exploration companies operating in the region.
    The move comes as Argentina faces international condemnation for its seizure of Repsol’s majority stake in YPF”

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 01:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Chichureo, to be fair Think didn't call you “roto”, neither Malvinero. Certainly not me.

    Argentines don't call chileans that.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 02:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    #85 The sky will not fall, but will darken with heavy clouds and there will be thunder and lightning. The hail and rain will pour down upon the populace and they will be wet and miserable. The dark clouds will continue and the rain, hail, sleet and snow will continue to fall. The sky will not fall Think, but it will be a very unpleasant experience...
    #88 International trade and trade balances by percentages are meaningless unless you consider the tariffs and net costs of payment. You can sell all the petroleum you desire, but the substantial development capital for oil shale will be difficult to secure when your credit rating is a B-. I'll try to explain your peril: A decline in the percentage of finished goods of export trade by more than 4% will many times result in a 10-12% decline of the employment sector assigned to it. Being evicted from the free trade preferences agreement is very serious. Anyway, I think I'm wasting my time. Let's wait 12 to 14 months to see...

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 02:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Chilean perspective

    I have been trying to follow the news on the YPF issue, but have been unable to find clear commentary on how the Argentine State is going to pay for the expropriation. I would also like to know how they will finance the expansion of the industry, in terms of exploration, the exploitation and the refining capacity. We all know that the Argentines are effectively locked out of international funds, so where are the billions coming from?????
    I can't get enough of this crazy keynesian on horse steroids economic model, so if anyone could help me better understand this, I would appreciate it a lot.
    Thanks in anticipation.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 02:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (90) Chicureo
    You say:
    The sky will not fall, but will darken with heavy clouds and there will be thunder and lightning………………………………………

    I say:
    Ayyyyy nooo, Condorito………………………
    Vay tú rogar la PachaMama pa´k prenda el Irruputuncu, el Llullaillaco y el Quetrupillán ..........….nomás pá schadefreudear a too cachete a nos Argentuzos?

    (91) The Chilean Perspective
    You say:
    I have been trying to follow the news on the YPF issue, but have been unable to...........................................................................................
    Thanks in anticipation.

    I say:
    Just for starters………………………………..................................................…
    Try Petrobras or Total.
    De nada.

    Now seriously, my Chilean Brothers…..

    I know perfectly that we, Argentuzos, are a bunch of aweonaos que nos subimos el ego comiendonos minas chilenas feas como las Bolocco…… ;-))

    And that the Argentuzas are just a bunch of Marakas culias k lo unico k saben es chupar pichula, pero como los dioses…. ;-))

    It is now your historical turn to feel superior, rich and powerful.

    You may stroke the backs of your beloved leopards, falcons, scorpions and sea-wolfs. You paid for them.

    But don’t overdue it……………………

    Like it or not, we, Chileans, Peruvians, Bolivians and Argentineans are incredible similar.

    And we are all here to stay……………..

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 05:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Chilean perspective

    92 Think.
    Hang on pal. What the hell does my interest in knowing more about this political move by CFK , have anything to do with Chile's military hardware?
    I want you to realize that the ONLY reason we have a defense force trained and equipped to this level is because we cannot trust our neighbors. Argentina mobilized their armed forces against us in Dec. 1978, Peru wants the “mar de Grau” in Arica and Bolivia wants Antofagasta back. Morales is itching to start something and so is Ollanta Humala. So the Chilean military doctrine, to the detriment of the Chilean tax payer is one of being able to fight all three at the same time and smash their forces.. Thats why they spend more money than all three combined and why they train so hard.
    I'm not happy about this but what can you do?
    We all get home insurance, right. We know our house probably won't burn down but we pay the premium every year just in case. The same thing applies with the military.
    Anyway can someone answer my questions regarding CFK and YPF.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 06:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger


    Yeah! You are wasting your time because you have no clue about what are you talking about to start with.

    Now let me explain to you something very simple. The Spanish declare 1.5 billions of earnings and took 3billions (I guess there is something wrong here ha ha). Lets assume that 1.5bn are correct, now the Arg state having the majority on the board can change dividend policy to 50% so YPF can reinvest 750m in exploration at year (7.5b in 10 years and the Spanish invested less in 20 years). The rest of the 750m are paid among shareholders from where the Arg state get another 375m, they will use this to pay back the Spanish in 10 quotes for 10 years. Because they are not going to get more than that.

    So just doing this simple thing the company would be better off than in the hands of the raptors from the peninsula. And without going into debt.

    And for your record any bank in the world will lend money to a company that has 1.5bn of profit because will be a good business. And in fact money can be rise locally.

    Again you talk as you give for certain that the EU will ban arg. exports to EU. This is not going to be like that, the preference import tax taken from Argentina by the EU was something already announced before YPF stuff. Like happened in US.

    Nothing has changed only the threat of the Spanish govt. that is a “preference to EU bio fuel”. Will that harm Argentina? Nope they can export this to any other country or use at home.

    So nothing is going to change or the sky will fall. In 3 months none will remember YPF takeover because they will be talking about Telefonica. Ha ha

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 07:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (93) The Chilean Perspective

    You know what?

    Your ” Chilean Perspective” sounds very much like the ”Argentinean Perspective” of Dec. 1978.

    “Everybody” wanted a piece of us, they kept telling us…, we couldn’t trust anybody….
    Paraguay wanted a piece of us…!
    Bolivia wanted a piece of us…!
    Brazil wanted a piece of us…!
    Chile wanted a piece of us…!
    We had to arm ourselves…!

    That was more than 30 years ago………

    30 years during which Argentina abandoned that sick ”National Perspective”
    30 years during which Argentina has been ”Thinking out of the Box”.
    30 years during which Argentina has pioneered in the region by dismantling its Armed Farces.
    30 years during which Argentina has resolved ALL its borders disputes with its neighbors.
    30 years during which Argentina has sturdily advocated for regional integration via Mercosur.
    30 years during which Argentina has robustly promoted regional integration via Unasur.

    Today, any of our dear neighbors could “have a piece of us” militarily.
    But are they having it?
    No…….Why not?

    I answered quite clearly your questions about YPF.
    We don’t even need to go out and look for capital for the development of our existing and/ or proven oil reserves.

    Oil is a valuable commodity… Investment simply gravitates in our direction.

    Took no more than 24 hours for two mayor companies to offer to fill Repsol’s gap

    No big deal……..

    Like that highly publicized “Bio Diesel Boycott” from Spain…

    We just increased (from 7% to 10%) the bio-diesel adding percentage to our normal diesel in Argentina…..

    Not any economical, technical or logistical problem at all .….

    As a matter of fact it seems that we will end saving some money thanks to that “Boycott”.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 07:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DJ56

    30 years during which Argentina has resolved ALL its borders disputes with its neighbors.

    So its finally given up its ludicrous claim to the Falklands has it?

    Sorry, just wishful thinking. CFK's recent actions show that nothing has changed.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 08:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think


    This is not the United Kingdom of Great Britain's neigborhood....
    Their “Hood” is some 8,000 miles up north.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 08:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Doveoverdover

    @96 In this global village of ours, everyone is a neighbour.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 08:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @ The Chilean perspective

    “I can't get enough of this crazy keynesian on horse steroids economic model, so if anyone could help me better understand this, I would appreciate it a lot.
    Thanks in anticipation.”

    Well I guess that figures explain that by itself. In 2001 Argentina GDP was 100 bn with a dollar 1=1 and exported only 15bn dollars the projection to 2012 will give a GDP of close to half trillion and exports close to 90bn.
    And all that with a super devaluated peso that historically have been equal to real (what currently is half).

    So we can say that Arg. economy is close to reach the trillion dollars in near future in out put terms.

    I official exchange rate Arg. economy is close to the combine GDP of Chile + Colombia.

    Per capita $17,400 for 2011 the highest after US and Canada.

    This figures comes from WB and FMI

    Now do you have any doubt about Arg. economy model? If you want to learn more about it see Ordoliberalism or social market economy made in Germany.

    Mohammed be calm you are not a nation to solve anything just a disputed territory with UKistan.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 08:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Max

    | 76 |

    I know almost all..........

    Probably,I'll look count Ferrari owners when i visit Orange County....

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 08:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Ladies and gentlemen:

    The Sun.

    ***Brit Oil Strike***

    Chuckle chuckle©

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Max

    | 86 |

    Does Argentina import [ convertible cars ]...'

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 09:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Doveoverdover

    @101 As you know, I don't subscribe to The Sun so thanks for drawing this to my attention.

    I particularly liked the comment that free shares should be issued to holders of the South Atlantic Medal but I wouldn't want the line to be drawn there. In 1982 I was in a bunker, admittedly safe and sound, in the South of England but doing my bit for freedom and the Anglo way of life. I'd want to claim some free shares too and to be in selfish solidarity with those whining non-deployed conscripts on the losing side that want a pension for not having faced the enemy in combat.

    Fortunately, I do have a pension and can spare a bob or two for another punt on B&S. I'll even put £50 each way on them for you first thing tomorrow. If it booms you can collect the winnings from a dead letter box next time you're passing through on your way to the annual Stamford Bridge victory celebrations.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • RobWilliams


    Very good link, hopefully other media outlets report this.

    up to 1billion barrels of oil, eat that CFK!

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Tobias: our warped cultural language differences distort reality, “roto” can be used derogatory or complementary. “Un roto chileno a mucha honrra” is a proud boast.

    Think: agreed about “minas chilenas feas como las Bolocco”, but let’s leave poor Condorito out of this debate. For that matter, I don’t understand my own countrymen either and we certainly don’t speak the same language as across the Andes.

    Oh yes, you made me really laugh this morning... “Like it or not, we, Chileans, Peruvians, Bolivians and Argentineans are incredible similar.” I nearly choked on my tea... For first starters, our girls are typically shorter and have smaller feet than yours...

    “We don’t even need to go out and look for capital for the development of our existing and/ or proven oil reserves.” and “Oil is a valuable commodity… Investment simply gravitates in our direction.” Like I said, you’ll always be able to sell your hydrocarbons and grains. China is a willing customer.

    #91 How will “Argentine State is going to pay for the expropriation?” They won’t. “How will they will finance the expansion of the industry, in terms of exploration, the exploitation and the refining capacity?” The answer is China. As you said: “Argentines are effectively locked out of international funds…”

    #94 “And for your record any bank in the world will lend money to a company that has 1.5bn of profit because will be a good business. And in fact money can be rise locally.” Please advise Ecuador on this as they currently seem to have some difficulty with their credit rating…

    “…they will be talking about Telefonica. Ha ha.” Yes, they probably will…

    Think: There is a song, “It Never Rains In California…But Man It Pours”, you may be right, but although I don’t think you”ll need to build an “ark” you may think about buying an umbrella and looking for higher ground.

    Everyone: Have fun with your debate. I resign as I have wood to start burning for today’s family asado.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (103) Cmd McDod

    Please, put those £50 to a much better use.......
    Buy some flowers to the Missus, candy to the grandchildern and a pint of lukewarm, flat British ale for you, with best regards from el Think.......

    I luuuuv British military history.
    Thanks for mentioning Stamford Bridge.
    That great Viking Victory.................... where Viking King Harold Godvinson, son of Godwin, Earl of Viking King Knud the Great and Viking Princess Gytha Thorkelsdóttir……defeated Viking King Harald Hårderåde, son of Viking King Sigurd of Ringerike and Viking Queen Åsta Gudbrandsdatter……..

    But my personal favorite will always be that great British victory at Rorke's Drift...........................:
    Those 150 heroic Red Coats, armed solely with Martini-Henry rifles, firing some 20,000 rounds of ammunition from 400 yards onto a vast superior force of about 4,000 Zulu Warriors armed with state of the art Iklwa spears and advanced cowhide shields.
    Some 400 Zulus were killed almost instantly by the lead volleys and some 600 more a bit later, when the Brit soldiers went through the fallen, humanly finishing off the wounded….

    Makes one shiver with British Military Pride…........

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britninja

    @106 Silly Argie, trying to take the moral high ground on the topic of killing poorly armed natives. To borrow the Malvinista motto: jajajajajajaja. At least we don't have pictures of Rorke's Drift on our banknotes, unlike the Conquest of the Desert on yours.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    I suppose Think believes its far more humane to throw people out of airplanes as opposed to fighting them in an actual battle.

    Still it is just yet another lesson in the lethality of British soldiers!

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Funny an RG minister today noted that Petrobras will continue to invest in Argentina...the same as last year....500M.. and FRENCH total may have a little problem finding the cash for Arg investments since the Paris club debt is still unpaid and EU is going to be shutting down $ flow to the deadbeat robbers.
    All hail the Chinese overlords...Am I correct in assuming the Chinese bring in their own workers and security forces when they take over industries? I think that is what they did in Africa. How does this benefit Argentina again?

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    Good to see Twinky and his (its) fellow gangster rats pedalling hard to keep the head of the “government line” above water. But we, and they, know better!

    As usual, they tell lies. Argieland has 2,780,400 square kilometres. And they are concerned about 12,000! That's right. Twelve thousand, not twelve million. Less than half a percent of what they already have. Because they murdered and stole to get it. And they've been murdering and stealing continuously for the best part of 500 years.

    Amazing how they can come out with all these (selected) figures, isn't it? Delivered daily by carrier pigeon from the Reichschancellery. Would YOU buy a second-hand cow from these “people”? Especially as they are implanted, murdering, thieving genocides?

    The truth is that argieland is a con-trick. In a territory that any human population would turn into a thriving, dynamic country, they struggle. Agriculture - struggling. Industry - struggling. Oil - struggling. Imports/exports - struggling. Fishing - struggling. Utility supply - struggling. Human justice - non-existent. Poverty - endemic.

    And yet they accuse real people, real human beings, of “stealing”. Revealing their total, their utter, inadequacy.

    See how inadequate Twinky is. Not knowing that “viking” is an activity, not a people. And Rorke's Drift? Anybody remember who attacked whom? How typical of an argie to remember Rorke's Drift but forget the Conquest of the Desert when 6,000 argie soldiers armed with breech-loading Remington rifles attempted the extermination of the native people armed with what? Spears! The difference? A British defensive action compared to an official, deliberate, genocidal argie action. And don't forget, Twinky, you are living on the land that genocide obtained. Don't you feel proud?

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • stick up your junta

    a lot of the injuries inflicted on the British at Rorkes drift was caused by bullets,so did the British shoot each other Think?

    And the Lads were not too happy with the Zulus habit of disembowelling the wounded,so were not too keen on taking prisoners

    Wet with Yesterday’s Blood’ - the disembowelling controversy.

    By Ian Knight

    Tucker’s account mirrors the sense of shock that the survivors of Lord Chelmsford’s column similarly felt on their return to Isandlwana the night after the battle. “We saw the dead bodies of our men strewed about on every side, and horribly mutilated”, 2 wrote on, “the Zulus mutilated them and stuck with the assegai all over the body”, 3 observe a second, while a third noted that “Every white man that was killed or wounded was ripped up, and their bowels torn out”.4 To suffer a sudden, unexpected and astonishing catastrophe such as Isandlwana was bad enough, but the treatment of the British dead understandably worked those who witnessed it into a fury; “It was enough to make your blood run cold”

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (105) Chicureo

    You made me laugh with your candid frankness this morning too...

    You said:
    “Our girls are typically shorter and have smaller feet than yours...”

    I say:
    Believe me...., I know, ........
    Your boys are typically shorter and have smaller ..... than ours too...“

    Don't worry though, you know what girls around the world always say ...:
    ”It’s Not The Size That Matters, It’s How You Use It” ;-)))

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Think: “Makes one shiver with British Military Pride…” I assume you consider the Argentine military pride at a higher level? (And no, Chile, other than never losing a war in our nation's 200 year history, does not have much more to crow about, as we buried our victims in the desert instead of throwing into the sea...)

    “And the Lads were not too happy with the Zulus habit of disembowelling the wounded,so were not too keen on taking prisoners” reminds one of the false white flag tactics used by the Argentine forces against the British. (They were not very forgiving either...)

    Up against only four little toy Typhoon jets and one little tin destroyer and your country is checkmated. No instead you wisely attack history instead and pretend your European ancestors were of higher morals than the British. In both battle scenarios you fail miserably.

    All: Have a great Sunday!

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Don't get caught up with THINK's canards he does that when he is clearly losing an argument and wants to change the subject.

    Ask him about his pension or the daily decreasing peso if you want to get him to shut up.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • McClick

    Poor mental disabled boy !

    This person has a skill just for stupid English who pretending to say from
    Argentina's far flung areas like Chubut,Patagonia or wherever else that as not saying from Buenos Aires to fend off likely coming questions bombard and also supporting this role by using some contra (female & male) comment names who spars in dustup,fiddle as replying You Argie...You distract own position/identity................
    also with tooling funny California Spanish ordinary fraud..!

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    I don't read spanish, nor do I have a spanish accent, because let's face it, I'm not poor and that's what poor people do.

    If people spoke more English, they'd be better at business, less frustrated about life and things and generally less warmongery.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    #112 Think, I missed your amusing comment as I posted. Your observation may be valid, but referring to an atlas, even with your pretension to Antarctica, you'll be able to confirm your country is larger in volume, but that Chile is far longer. (If you really want to humiliate a Chilean, compare your Tango to our Cueca in reference to seduction.) Truly have a nice Sunday.

    Yankeeboy: Your prediction of the exchange rate within 14 months? 10/1 - 12-1 - 20/1? As a reference help: ”The value of one current peso is 10,000,000,000,000 pesos of 1969 (or 1914), and more than 16,700,000,000,000 pesos of 1914 with the U.S. dollar as reference.”

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    117. What I don't understand is why the RG posters don't see that they went through this same scenario in the 90s ( any many times before). Inflation grew until all the consumables were more expensive in BA than in NYC or London, Economy overheated then crashed. It is kind of astounding they are either that blind or that dumb. I have not figure out which it is yet.
    They will be forced into austerity this time. I don't see any $ coming from USA or IMF to get them through the downturn. They have burned those bridges long ago.
    Austerity will be good for them in the long run maybe if they get a good ruler they will come out stronger in the end like Chile or Brazil.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • MurkyThink

    @ 115 ..... @ 116

    no he(she)-- you is(are) not poor ...

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias


    When it gets to the point of discussing foot size on this website, you know that things have really gotten serious! (!)

    For the record, I must back chichureo. Chilean girls have smaller feet and I know this both from observation in Mendoza and the fact that a couple of my cousins (who are girls), have tried getting flip-flops in Chile and even the biggest girl size there which is 39 is too small for them; they have long feet and toes. They had to get mens size (and not a small size there either), I woudn't find my size in Chile. We have big feet even for Argentina standards (sadly I a have very big size). Some of us try getting shoe sizes from the USA, but even there it is not always available. My family has large feet, bad genetics. :(

    So that was a topic where I have plenty of bad experience, I digress.

    In argie girls defense though, they tend to be rather taller than Chilean girls, by a good margin. In fact that's probably the easiest way to know which girl is Chilean or Argentine when on the beach in Reñaca. I was just reading some statistics and in Latin America argentines tend to be the tallest in the statistics (I would have thought it would be the Brazilians, but in fact while their African roots help there, Brazil has a huge indian/mestizo population in the northeast which tend to be much shorter than people in the south of Brazil).

    As for “roto” I don't know what it means or how it is taken in Chile. I know the Peruvians and Bolivians use that term though.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • zethe

    “4,000 Zulu Warriors armed with state of the art Iklwa spears and advanced cowhide shields.”

    I suppose that would explain how several British troops died to gunshot wounds in that battle.

    It's a common misconception that the Zulu empire didn't have firearms. They had rifles, just most refused to use them because they saw them as cowardly weapons. Much like the Spartans disliked arrows.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (113) Chicureo

    1) You assumed incorrectly….............
    In my personal opinion, all Armed Farces of the world are just that; Armed Farces.
    No pride, no honor, no nothing,

    2) My ”European Ancestors” were in every way, of a higher standard than the rubble that inhabited the Islands we today know as Britain.

    As a matter of fact, modern-day British people are not other than the dastardly descendants of some bored to dead red haired Island peasant women that, totally flabbergasted, observed the tall and beautiful Viking half-gods descend from their long, sleek Drakkar ships equipped with those huuuge swords of theirs :-)))

    It didn’t take many seconds for them women to decide that their patriotic duty was to improve the Islands gene pool.

    Same experience I used to have last century, in my younger days, when riding into Coyhaique with all those short, small feeted, soft spoken, jet-black haired beauties. ;-)

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    You would think people would be more familiar with US banknotes than argie banknotes.

    So, we have Roca on the 100 bill, a general of the War of the Desert in Patagonia, then became president.

    You guys are “outraged”, outraged I tell you about this...

    It seems you guys are completely ok with Andrew Jackson being in the USS 20 banknote. Since you guys know less about US history than Argentine history, here's a refresher on Jackson:

    And British banknotes? They depict the office of head of Monarchy on their banknotes. They do not depict a specific king or queen, they change when the king/queen dies. What is constant is the office itself.

    An office that has killed millions around the world, mainly in Britain however in 1000 years through tyranny.

    But let's keep talking about the 100 peso note.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • McClick

    | 119 |

    For all i know “” Icky “” is a CIA organization which located in some American Universities to educate NGO members notably for Latin America/ Middle East /Middle Asia/Africa

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias


    Xect, you here? Could you explain to yankeeboy the 1990s Argentina had one of the world's lowest inflation rates, and deflation in the late 1990s? And that the economy was completely open and capital flows unrestricted (even more free than Chile or Brazil).

    He thinks he is smart by calling me uninformed, poor guy.

    The economy didn't overheat in the 1990s, the currency board made the country very expensive that included exports at a time of low commodities. That caused a rise in unemployment and deflation and years of recession. Kinda like Europe today with an overvalued Euro.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    125. oops was that the 80s where you had 30,000% inflation? Sorry my mistake!
    So if there was hardly any inflation how come in the late 90s all the USA brands cost more in BA than in NYC? Then in 2001 it crashed... Just wondering.....please enlighten me. You know I don't understand RGeconomics or RGmath.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • MurkyThink

    @ 124
    Thats absolutely true..!
    These are Internet NGOs...!

    First principle never force them out their memorize limits...
    if you do it then all of them will be consternated fish...shammers.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Simple, taxes mainly. Imported goods (specially luxury and electronics), are very heavily taxed. And also shipping costs since Argentina is the market that is the farthest from most electronic exporters (Australia is even much closer).

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @123 The £20 Note has Edward Elgar on it. He didn't do anything untoward and made some pretty good music, for his day.

    I think the issue here is that in the UK we venerate people who did fantastic things with a place on our bank-notes. Whereas in Argtardia you revere pretty nasty pieces of work, and then put them all over everything. I'm personally surprised you don't put Joseph Goebbels on one of your notes for teaching you how to brain-addle your children with false historical 'not-facts' en masse.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    128. Except you don't import Coca Cola or McDonalds so that argument really doesn't hold up. Coke was $5 pesos a bottle before the economy crashed and the peso was devalued. About 2x what it is in NYC. Try again.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    San Martin crossed the Andes at their highest point (nearly 4000 meters at Redentor pass), with 4000 men and horses and canons to help the Chileans defeat the Spanish. I think that was a good, brave thing. Try trekking at 4000 meters with less than half the oxygen at London level (5 banknote)

    Belgrano tried to liberate Bolivia and he designed the flag. (10 banknote)

    Sarmiento made education compulsory and universal. One of the first countries in the world to have it (50 bank note).

    I'm not telling this to you, I'm telling this to the lurkers. You will refuse to believe what I wrote because lets face it, you are not a CD-R, you are just a CD.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • McClick

    | 127 |

    Best of luck, TD,but don't hold your breath,anyone thinking of trying to brute forcing AES256,you should look up to Neumann-Landauer Limit for a 128 bit with no encryption cascade.You'll need about 40 bajillon years.And the file is not encypted with AES256(misdirection)Rubberhouse shows “” maruttuku “”........!

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • MurkyThink

    @ 132

    Cheerio !


    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias


    Actually, the Coke syrup was imported!! I remember even though I was in my low teenage years that it was a big deal that the coke syrup began to be imported because it was much cheaper!!

    In fact there is a line in the argie movie Nine Queen that references that time: the guy (Marcos) buys a pack of candy at the gas station, looks and it says “Made in Greece, this country is going to he!!”

    And I was still completely correct about why electronics and luxury goods were and are so expensive in Argentina. Chichureo would tell you this.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stefan

    115 - I think it's you who is mentally disabled, McDick. Haha. I love how Argentina still tries to spin this in their favor.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • McClick

    | 135 |

    I am not from Argentina...........

    You are very stupid not able to see think(s) around you...or....
    you are one of Think's post names.....

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    134. They syrup makes up very little of the cost...try again. Do you get your meat in McDonalds from the USA too is that why it was and is so expensive than in teh Uthe?
    BTW right now if you look at Coke is $42.59 and in eh USA we are paying U$4. How come it is 2.5% more? Just from the syrup or is an indication the economy is overheating?

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    You are trying to use one example to explain an entire economy. Each industry has its own reasons for whatever the price is.

    42 pesos for a bottle of soda? Can I sell stuff to you? I have an iglu in the Atacama, really nice and cool. I'll sell it for half.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • zethe

    ”Sarmiento made education compulsory and universal. One of the first countries in the world to have it (50 bank note).“

    Just not true in any way at all. He was the first president in your country to have an education PLAN. The first president to give your country compulsory education was Julio Roca, The fact that i know this and you do not just gives you an idea about your country's education standards.

    As for ”one of the first in the world” you're a few thousand years off being one of the first as the Jews had compulsory education as far back as the first century as did the Aztec's.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Take a look yourself that's why I gave you the link it (4 )1.5 liters of Coke for $42.59. The same thing here is U$3.96.
    And yes the Coke price is indicative of what is going on in the whole economy. I use it becuase It is easy to compare it is the SAME EXACT PRODUCT available here the only difference is it costs 2.5x more in a place that makes 1/6 of of our avg salary. So it is actually 12x more expensive for you than that right? Do some RG math for me and figure it out.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @131 San Martin crossing the Andes at their highest point in order to help the Chileans defeat the Spanish was a brave thing. So was Sir Henry Conyers Leach taking the fleet thousands of miles to help free the Falklanders from the tyranny of the Argtardian colonisation. That too was brave and we should put him on a Banknote.

    Belgrano trying to liberate Bolivia is just like Major Guy Sheridan RM liberating South Georgia from Argtardian annexation and tyranny. He should also be on a Banknote.

    Sarmiento making child beffudlement in Argtardia compulsory and universal, with great stories about Malvinas being Argtardian and historical inaccuracies leaving out everything before 1833, is just like having Joseph Goebbels on a Banknote, so I guess we'll leave them off.

    I think we'll stick with Elizabeth Fry on that one.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Tobias is right. During the illustrious history of Chile and Argentina in the early 20th century, wealthy families lived in Paris as the living costs were the same. The Argentines sent their clothes to France to be properly laundered and when they traveled they took a milk cow and servants with them on the passenger ship. All this was related to incredible wealth and highly overvalued currencies.

    Imported electronic goods are expensive. Buying an Ipad or Iphone in Argentina is a fortune.

    During the most recent Peso valuation of 1/1, I had to stay at 2 star hotels in Buenos Aires on my trips there. After the devaluation, nothing but the best! That finally now is again out of my budget range, but I await my next stay.

    Finally, Coke keeps their pricing current with each individual market as they are focused on market share. They are ruthless in this strategy.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Roca made education free in access, not compulsory per say. He was the one that introduced the government into handling school budgets and curriculums. Sarmiento however was the one that initiated the reforms, he simply didn't go as far as making it free. He did however pass laws to make education compulsory. He just didn't believe in the government taking it over that role over the churches.

    The fact you guys keep insulting me and all argentines for their education is so pathetic really. No sense of honor, no sense of rectitude, no scruples. Sad people who then point the fingers at others for intolerance. Quite remarkable.

    Here Iam speaking in YOUR language (and I can speak and indite in it better than most of you natives), and I could speak to you in four other languages... plus the fact I probably have more general knowledge than you do knowledge period... and you have the gall, the chutzpah to judge my education.

    But I shall not lay the blame on you. Your condition is not of your own making.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Toby, 9 people were gunned down today in BA, want to try to tell me how it is peaceful there and the USA is much more dangerous?

    You should learn to keep your mouth shut before you need to back-peddle just like your glorious ruler.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Ur pretty funny yankeeboy, you have no sense of honor. 9 people were not gunned down, there are nine injuries. And as you would know, that is the first time in how long, years since there was any attempt at a mass shooting? I certainly don't remember any in recent memory.

    Sorry, but you still have to shut up on that one category. Don't feel bad, you have the edge in many things (since nationality to you seems the only avenue to self-confidence).

    Your math is not even worthy of consideration. Not only is that price incorrect (one can get coke for $8 in neighborhood kiosks), but argies don't make 1/6 of the salary, nor do you take into account after income expenses Americans have in huge healthcare costs, mortgages, and car loans. You math is pathetic. You should have no problem getting a job with CFK.

    Maybe that's why you are talking so much math here. Trying to impress some of those “payed CFK” posters right?

    Chichureo, thanks. Us big footed argies appreciate your honesty (not all of us are big footed, though yes many in my family sadly do. Hope you got a chuckle about our experience on a beach trip to Chile. Poor cousins of mine, their feet were totally falling off the biggest sized girl flip-flops. Getting the larger guys size was a low point for them).

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Why do you think people pay for heathlcare here? Everyone I know has it provided from their employer as part of their salaries along with their retirement. The only pople that pay for thier own health care are self employed and this is a choice. Mortgages or Rent ( you have the same unless you live w/parents) Car loans Metro or Bus (you have the same). So I don't see why your think your monthly expense categories would be any different than in the USA. You jsut make almost 1/6 of our income.
    Let me show you:
    Let's see U$41,673.83x 5.63 = 234630/12= 19552/ 3300 = 5.92 Oh you are right it's almost 1/6th sorry I was off by .08. Is the discovirtual site wrong? search “Coke”
    $ 10.65 x Units
    Price Amount Buy Amount
    $ 42.59
    Should I inform the ministry of planning?

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    HAHAHAHAHA! You really think you can fool me that the majority of Americans have healthcare as part of a salary package with a pension? You really still think I'm a fool. You look more ridiculous by the millisecond.

    Most Americans are either waged hourly or self-employed. They don't get any such thing as a guaranteed retirement or pension, only some sort of piggy bank account by the employer were if the person puts some money the company adds some amount (Which they lose if they do not work for some years in that company).

    I have a friend who came back from the USA. He had over 400 dollars deducted from his almost 2.000 monthly salary at an entry level job. Then they took national and local taxes, then dental, then he had to put a little off for the pension (THE JOB DID NOT PROVIDE PENSION). In the end he was left with maybe 1,200. He lived with a friend in an apartment.

    With that he had to pay for his rent, and a car because in Florida there is not public transportation. He may have had 600-700 left for everything else.

    The fact you want to make me believe most americans still have built-in pensions, and don't have healthcare taken from their net salary means I will stop discussion right here. You want to talk about purchasing power of coke in Argieland and how that is X of our salary, yet you want to brush under the carpet the things that deduct from the average US salary (which btw according to Romney, its down 12% in four years. In 2008 Obama said salaries were down 15% since 2000)... .OUCH.

    WHen you get honest with me and want to use fair math for both sides and not thing you can hoodwink me, I may deign you further attention.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Oh Toby, how can you compare a legal American's salary to your poor little RG illegal cleaning pools? He was probably getting ripped off using a fake social security number too.
    You believe what you want I don't care. I wonder why my RG friends have to save for 2 years to visit me if their salaries are so high and they have virtually no expenses. That is kind of weird don't you think?

    How long do you have to save for a computer or phone? 6 months or a year? I bet is 6x more than the avg american does though....

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger


    1- A kilo of bad beef in US cost more than $25 in arg $10, bloody ‘ell US skyrocket with inflation and the economy is overheating.
    2- A pot of dulce de leche in Miami cost $4.50 in Arg cost $2, bloody ‘ell US economy near to collapse.
    3- JUGO CEPITA in Arg $1.55 in US ??? you cannot find it how can that be possible? US near to collapse?
    4- A kilo of ABS termo plastic for 3d printer in Arg $34 dollars in US USD 48 bloody ‘ell someone tell Oboso that the economy is really bad.

    Would you YankeeAmex boy?

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Yankeeboy, I'm not trying to argue American living standards are ”Significantly' better.... but it is not a care-free paradise and we are not a he!!hole. You overstate your strengths and undercut us in our weaknesses.

    It is generally agreed that after all factors are considered, Argentines make 1/3 of the average European and 1/4 the average American. That is still really good for you. But it is a big difference between that and your numbers.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    Can we stop with the silly 'mine is bigger than yours' nonsense? I have told the story here before of the complaints from Argentine girl friends about their disappointment at Argentine men's equipment. Remember the 'cork' story?

    The truth is there is no evidence to suggest an average size per country. Though there is some evidence to support a correlation between over-inflated egos and under-inflated phalluses.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias



    Anyone here talking at all about whatever she is yamming about?

    You are in the wrong place to placate your pre-menstrual calenture my frisky gamine. I'd suggest try a cheap airport-side bar. Sundays tend to be good for “after their prime specials”.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @152 Misogynist jokes? How very proud your mother would be; not.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Yeah I'm a misogynist. No Lady Gamine, it's called personal preference. I'm not into cougars. I'm also not into Asian girls. Does that make me a sinophobe too? And it was also a joke. Relax your victorian corcet my demure cougar.

    I still don't understand why you came prowling in here talking about male anatomy. I'm checking the last 30 answers and see nothing to warrant your commentary. There is nothing wrong with pre-menstrual calenture. At least you are a healthy woman.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (152) Tobias

    Quite right............

    Nobody here was talking at all about whatever that tart is yamming about..........

    Hopes she placates her pre-menstrual calenture somewhere else......

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Notice my usage of “yamming” instead of “yammering”.

    I don't think no one's cought my pun yet. LOL

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (156) I did..... (had to google it though)..... Nasty boy...

    (151) ElaineB
    Disgusting display of British tartiness.
    No wonder the Romans called you, wretched little people for Brituncili……………

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Admittedly, I'm two steps ahead of most people.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Most Argies are ...... ;-)

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    I know what you did there. I did the same in 158.

    Now, tic toc tic toc.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger


    How did you get that figures compared with living standards?

    I guess you have never been living in Europe or US right?

    Here a roadmap

    A truck driver in Germany earns in average $2100, in UK $2900 in Italy $3000 in Spain $1446 in Belgium $3700 all before tax deduction. In Argentina $2000 after tax and social charged discounted.

    Another factor is the PPP anyone with $2000 at month in EU is pretty poor hardy arrives to the end of the month at least they are very careful with the money. I used to earn $3000 when living in EU and trust me it is not a good salary if you want to live “de joda” like in Argentina.

    The gap you think it is in salaries it not real some people in EU have very low salaries. May be what you are comparing is per capita.

    If that let me explain you what that means.

    Per capita it is not how much people earns as many people believe otherwise is what people produce in theory obtained by dividing the GDP of a given economy by its population.

    So for example Goldman Sachs and its 22.425 employees produced in 2011 a GDP of 28 billion dollars by doing per capita GDP/people you will get that each has a 1.248.606,46. Sound pretty reach in theory...

    But in reality Goldman Sachs earned 1.05 billions and the employees just a medium salary of 60k each (5k at month).

    Welcome the “economist fantasyland” nothing is real like the Mohammed Army. Ha ha

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Well you say the difference is as little as 2 times in Europe. Yankeeboy says it is 6 times... I guess I am right after all (no disrespect).

    European standards are significantly higher than Argentina because the benefits received. I understand the concept of “mean” (per capita) vs “median”, believe me. I know math and stasticial analysis better than probably most people here as I am in a science bachelor.

    Cost of living and deductions are precisely why yankeeboy's facile and dissembling argumentation that living standards are just a mere currency conversion doesn't fool many people.

    If the general point is Americans and Europeans have a significant advantage in living standards, of course. But it is not his depictions of Americans all being salaried and having PENSIONS (that is simply a patent lie), and still having their entire net salary as disposible income. Who is he trying to bamboozle, who knows.

    If he is trying to browbeat to m

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (162) Tobias

    I stopped interacting wit“Yankeeboy” (Aka Fredbdc) in 2010.
    If interested, the link below can give you some clues about his primitive mentality….

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    Now now boys,

    As we would say, be grateful for small mercy’s,
    , you are worst of than some, but better of than some others .


    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    148 yankeeboy, AKA FredB from DC, CasaLopez (Arg. purse salesman)

    When you have an arrogant attitude and feel a sense of superiority over others you may miss the reality of your beloved country.
    Look for example what is in the news today:

    “UN to investigate plight of US Native Americans for first time

    The UN human rights inquiry will focus on the living conditions of the 2.7 million Native Americans living in the US”

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • stick up your junta

    Admittedly, I'm two steps ahead of most people

    Most Argies are ...... ;-)

    most evident with the retreat from Wireless Ridge

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    So big oil has now been struck to the south as well. Should be official soon. The money is already pouring in and the black stuff doesn't flow properly for 3 more years yet.

    How much longer are you Malvinistas going to keep telling us there'll be no oil?

    You're going to be isolated in Argentina from the rest of the world and we're going to rolling in it.. Hell, you'll be able to hear us enjoying it from over the fence.

    Interesting discussions about UK manufacturing going on at present also. It seems that it is making a huge resurgence and that the Chinese sector is in trouble. Too expensive to ship everything so far with the cost of oil going up and with the world trying to reduce its carbon foot print.

    Oh and while I'm on here I may as well stick to the topic you boys and girls have been on all afternoon. Mine is only of average size.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    I think you people make it too complex. Simply, would you live in the following?

    Sweden? Yes
    UK? Yes
    USA? Yes
    Argentina? No - It's a weird neo-nazi hell hole run by psycho and your kids would be ruined with propaganda about lebensraum.

    It's that simple really.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    I'm trying to figure out why everyone wants to talk about sexual anatomy.

    The first and only reference about anatomy I saw, before all the phallic interjections by ElaineB and now Joe Boggs, in reading 100+ messagues is the one chichureo made about argie girls (argies in general), which made me cachinnate a week's worth of laughter, because I felt so identified with his comments:

    “...Oh yes, you made me really laugh this morning... “Like it or not, we, Chileans, Peruvians, Bolivians and Argentineans are incredible similar.” I nearly choked on my tea... For first starters, our girls are typically shorter and have really smaller feet than yours... ”

    That's it. So I just admitted I had to agree with chichureo that chilean girls have smaller, cuter feet and little shoes, and that a lot of argie girls have long, or large footed frames and need really big size shoes, including some of my girl cousins unfortunately. There's even a big footed women association, the first and largest in the Spanish speaking world , and 80% of the members are argie girls. So obviously there is something to it!

    In my family it is genetic, as I as a guy have also to my self-hatred very large feet. I mentioned several times its something we are not very proud of and that chichureo was right about his “big footed” comments about some argies.

    With that I never intended to hint anything else. It's just the truth. I think Elaine took what was a complete moment of candor about the imperfections of my family (we are not perfect, then who is?) and thought I was bragging about something else. That's a quick stretch... unless you already had that in your mind.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    168 Greek

    I couln't live in Sweden. The shortest days in winter would be too much for me. It's bad enough in the Falklands in the peak of winter and that is about the same as southern England but Sweden is another hour or two worse off I believe; at least to the north. I suffer enough from SADS in winter in Stanley as it is.

    I agree with you about shoes. I simply cannot buy shoes in Chile. It I can in Argentina.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias


    And now that I think about it I realize something... does anyone know what the name “Patagonia” mean?

    Believe it or not, “land of the big footed tribes”... funny I had never made that connection so directly till now (since the Patagonian War of the Desert is such a fav topic here)

    So I'm guessing that not all natives from Patagonia were exterminated. It is well known in Argentina that some of the best volleyball or cestobol players come from La Pampa, Cordoba, Rio Negro, and western Buenos Aires... they are tall girls with really big feet. And many have obvious signs of being mixed European and native. The natives of central and southern Argentina, unlike those from the northwest which are shorter and barrel-chested with great oxygen capacity, are tall, lanky and with large hands and feet.

    Seems like the exterminationa theory has some holes!

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    Oops! I meant SAD not SADS. Luckily people generally only go through SADS once in their life. SAD sufferers go on suffering week after week for years.

    171 Tobias

    That's funny about the meaning of Patagonia.. I have tried lots of shoe shops in Patagonia on both sides of the border without luck though. There are a couple of malls in BA where I can find shoes but these days I tend to either mail order them or buy them in the US. Bigger range and I don't go to BA so much any more.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Good late afternoon. There is definitely a difference physically between the people of the Andean Southern cone. Perhaps in part to the higher meat consumption on the eastern side of the Andes and certainly due to the racial ancestry mix. Chileans interbred more with the indigenous people here. Argentine women have larger feet. but are definitely more stunning on the beach in their youth. In my twenties, I remember meeting a women's group of field hockey players and fell in love with each and every one of them. Foot size was never considered. I've been told however that Argentine women have impossible personalities starting in their mid-thirties and are a misery to live with. Who knows?

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Southern Patagonia the towns are really small, I'm not surprised they would not carry selection. Same happens even in developed nations. Tall people or with ususual dress/shoe sizes have to go to big cities, even if those countries have as an average a large body build.

    Me and two cousins have large feet, but one girl cousin and me have feet so large our size is not really made anywhere. There is a place in Mendoza that is called Hormagrand and they custom make. So I have a long and frustrating history with the issue of shoes, why I found chichuero's comments so personally apposite. haha

    I stayed a 7 months in Tierra del Fuego, best time of my life. Thanks to a friend we met on our trip to Europe! She happened to be from there so I was invited. I went to school there. While in Mendoza the days do fluctuate it is nothing like down there. I didn't get depressed. I had no problems with nightfall at 2:30 in the afternoon... I would do well in the hyperborean realms.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs


    Impossible personalities starting in their thirties applies to all women the world over.

    LOL! Only joking ladies.

    My wife is not logged on at the moment so I am safe!

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Ah Joe, If you remember the Rumpole Hilda character nicknamed “she who must be obeyed” Perhaps, as poor Rumpole , we have similar spouses. CFK definitely seems to fit the difficult part, but I've always liked strong women. Sleep well.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias


    Trust me, argie girls are jealous of Chilean girls little feet. I've heard that from several of them. The women's shoes they say look much cuter in 36 but horrible in a 4o or 41.

    Personally I think girls are beautiful the world over. British girls get a bad rep but when I was in London I found quite a few stunning types. They tend to be, honestly, big-breasted and have a couple of extra kilos compared to mainland euro girls.. I think its the American influence in their diet. But not too bad, big breasts I can live with.

    I think most of you fixate on Porteño personality types, porteños like newyorker women are unbearably high-maintenance. I think some of you need to meet some cordobesas, big feet and all :)

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @175 the 'impossible personality' is just the human equivalent of being 'devoured' by the female of the species, somewhat like a figurative version of something that is literally common amongst spiders. Women also have the problem that the man-type they want to be the genetic father to their children is subtley different to the man-type they want to raise their children. This is reflected in anonymous studies of paternal relationships, where quite commonly the home-raising father doesn't know that they aren't the genetic father. They cannot help it.

    I don't seem to have the gene that makes me attracted to Argentinian women. I would probably just tell them I'm american and make them sing songs and dance about malvinas during a date, before telling them I'm British... just to see how frosty the mood could get. I'd then measure the frostiness on my frost-o-meter and keep a log, to tell them how they compare.

    It's a way of not getting bored on a date with an Argentinian lady.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    To be honest, girls from all countries are usually pretty/special in their own ways.

    I've always been drawn to foreign women but then I think its the novelty factor as much as anything else. My ex fiance for instance was American and I've dated a Spanish girl (when I lived there) and a South African (again when I lived there).

    I've traveled extensively and lived in 4 other countries and I've never been to a country where I've not been attracted to the local women.

    Maybe I'm not picky lol!

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Forgetit87

    Empty threats to intimidate countries into not making full use of their sovereign rights. The world economy is already unstable: the possibility that long-term foreign investment will dry up is already there, and not only for Argentina. It would be foolish of Argentina if it cowered in face of petty threats by angry little 'investors' - and also by their international lobbying organization, the IMF - because of something that can happen even if it abided by the speculators' guidebook. In case of a new double-deep recession, no doubt many of the Western analysts now criticizing Argentina's bold move will see their own countries increasingly resorting to nationalist economic policies to avoid a full fledged depression - in fact, we've seen this before.

    The threat that more government activism will scare investment away has been employed against Argentina since the mid 2000s, when it first lifted capital controls to preserve its competitiveness in face of exports. And what can we say so many years later? That the Argentinian economy is in better shape than those of the market's champions - and denifitely better than Britain's.

    No doubt the sack of British morons commenting on this website will ignore that and rejoice in the IMF's barking, becoming cheerleaders for 'offended' big entrepreneurs that couldn't care less about the middle-class to which most bloggers on here belong, only because this satisfies their Argentina-bashing urges.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @180 Yeh, because ad hominem attacks, such as referring to people as 'morons' really supports whatever nonsense you were saying.

    The fact is, your president after being doused in fail at the Summit of Americas found out that the Chinese were about to buy Repsol, and faced with the option of expropriating a Chinese asset leading to China-based-fun led her to completely ignore the constitution and expropriate a Spanish asset, isolating herself from her major ally and investor. And now if she was in any reasonable country impeachment proceedings would have already begun. However, it's not a real democracy and so she'll just 'get away with it'.

    This makes your constitution not worth the paper it's written on, your democracy an utter sham, and whatever you were writing about other country's economic situation completely vapid.

    Where's Fat-boy Maximo to save the day with the La Campora hymn?

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias


    Interesting you did not utilize the word “argtards” here. Surely as a man of probity, you would never hide the fact that voicing complaint about ad hominem attacks, when you are the Duke of ad hominem attacks, would seem grossly hypocritical.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Argentina's economy is in better shape than Britain's thats some odd reality you live in.

    Lets compare a few headline states.

    British inflation 3.5% - Argentina's inflation over 25%
    British credit rating highest in the world - Argentina's, junk grade
    British investment up 30% - Argentina's investment down by over 70% (2011)
    British trade policy, open - Argentina's trade policy, restrictive

    Up until your odd and quite frankly ridiculous belief Argentina's economy is in better shape than the UK's, I was reading intently.

    As for the investors, you're move against Spanish owned YPF has just cost you over 1 billion you cannot afford to lose and is going to keep costing Argentina as the sanctions are likely to be coming from EU, calling them little is ridiculously far from the truth.

    Also YPF was a failed entity last time under the Argentine government losing money.

    However if you'd like to provide an analysis as to why Argentina is in better economic shape then the UK please go ahead, I will look forward to respond or will you just resort to yet more name calling?

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Forgetit87


    How is the UK economy? I heard that, even though George Osborne has tried to style himself as a deficit hawk, he has cut the top tax rates for rich Britons. What a democracy! *And* the OECD has recently said that Britain's GDP may have fallen in the first quarter of this year. Can you tell me what are the advantages of playing by the market's guidebook?

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @182 ... get back to stroking your mullet you plonk-swilling reprobate. I'm not going near your women and that's for sure.

    Argtards gonna tard?

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    The advantages Forgetit87 is the UK is the 6th/7th biggest economy whilst Argentina is stuck in a rather paltry 27th.

    If you can't see the advantages, I don't think you ever will.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DJ56


    To answer your question about the UK economy, see
    which gives the figures which directly impact most people. As you can see, we are doing a lot better than you guys in Argentina.
    This also shows the advantages of playing by the market's guidebook: virtually all the top countries in this list do exactly that.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Forgetit86


    I good barometer of economic health is popular feeling. When people are dissatisfied with their economic situation, their feelings toward the government sour, and after some time, there may be social unrest. Arab Spring, Chilean student protests, you know the story. Last time I checked, it was Britain that was having problems with riots, not Argentina. So don't think that your low inflation means something when growth is at best flat.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias


    I choose to stroke my mullet as a good reprobate. You can't choose getting near argie women or not, they eschew you by default and evade your presence with those big feet in big sized heels.

    Besides, I struck a nerve with my comment. I think you felt naked.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Forgetit87

    * a good barometer, I meant to say.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Ridiculous post Forgetit86, since when has sentiment being a barometer of economic health? Silly...

    As for Argentina have you not seen the consistent strikes happening across different industries? If you model is anything to go by Argentina's economy is dismal.

    As for the riots they have zero to do with economics and are all to do with social problems in this instance and perpetuated by less than 0.0000001% of the country.

    After that post, I really do not think you understand economics at all, which is disappointing as I was looking forward to a debate with you.

    I'd not argue the UK's economy is flat however its still worth 2,417,570M with 60M people and Argentina's is 447,644m with 40M people. I'd say your model isn't working, hasn't worked and will continue not to work especially when you take into account the UK has little natural resources and Argentina has an abundance of natural resources.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @184 UK economy is doing fine. Considering the global slowdown and the euro-crisis but we're seemingly managing to mitigate some of the risks. Lots to do though. We cut taxes on rich to get more rich into the UK and investing here, then more taxes to pay for poor people. Thanks very much for asking.

    @188 I agree. Measurements of personal achievement, wellbeing and happiness are far better measures of country status. But they're difficult to quantify and measure.

    @189 You're just upset because I'd choose to make a fool of an Argtard lady by making her do Las Malvinas dance, the La Campora March and sing the Argentina songs 'We'll invade again, and get the lebensraum we need' and ' Send the islanders to montevideo'. Then I'd laugh and laugh when she realises I'm British and she's in La Campora uniform looking like Eva Braun.

    I can see why it would get to you.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Forgetit87

    “Ridiculous post Forgetit86, since when has sentiment being a barometer of economic health? Silly...”


    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DJ56


    And, on a purchasing power parity basis, the average wage in the UK is nearly 3 times higher than that in Argentina.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias


    Oooh, I think you are revealing too much here Greek. So you get frisky frisky when beautiful women dress like Eva Braun... Are you a shackled Jew asking for mercy or a maniacal Hitler bossing her around?

    Fun times, fun times for you it seems.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Care to answer with facts rather than conjecture forgetit87? Never has popular feeling been related to economic health.

    The UK's outlook is generally once of cynicism regardless of market conditions, I'm do not know the general populous of Argentina well enough to state how they view economic affairs however as an Englishman I can say popular feeling hasn't changed here in the UK.

    I sort of suspect you are confusing this with market sentiment with is based on emotion but not of the ordinary man.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @192 If I got frisky around ladies dressed like Eva Braun, then I'd be a fan of Argtard women. But I'm not, so I'm not. Let's face it, Fem-Argtards spend most of their time in La Campora black-shirt uniform saluting at massive bronze statues of Maximo. Then they appear on tv camera saying how they want to be his concubine.

    I've got no interest in that kind of nonsense.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Forgetit87

    “Care to answer with facts rather than conjecture forgetit87? Never has popular feeling been related to economic health.”

    You're being silly, man. Any commenter of the Arab unrest of the last 1.5 year will adduce unemployment and food inflation as big causes of the uprisings. The late 80s protests in China are in part ascribed to the foodstuff prices, and even the Frech Revolution is thought to have had similar causes. Likewise the rising racism and xenophobia in Great Depression Europe is thought to be linked with the economic crisis. That's human nature for you - people react to their environment, their values change when they feel put down by external pressure, and sometimes this feeling expresses itself in the form of social unrest.

    Anyway, read the interview below. One of the interviewees, Nouriel Roubini, attributes to the financial crisis, and the subsequent non-recovery, the many revolts taking place in the world in the last years, including the British riots.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    And yet again you fail to prove why the Argentinian economy as you stated is in better shape than the UK's.

    And what is worse you've quoted an article that isn't even related to the UK where one woman airs her thoughts on the US's economic state.

    And with that I'm out since you've failed to answer any questions asked of you.

    You appear to be an educated man just not on economics.

    All the best,

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Forgetit87

    Wow, the guy thinks Nouriel Roubini is a woman!

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias

    Forgetit86 and 87? Interesting. You make some good points about the reasons for the Arab Spring and other revolutions (weather plays a role too), however I think you miss the mark when you say in Argentina sentiment is good therefore the econony is good.

    The econony was overpumped by the government, with too many subsidies. Argentina wastes a lot of electricity, because prices are low. So if all those subsidies were removed people would not be too happy. However, it would force the companies to make more investments as they would have no excuse to reinvest then.

    Yoghurt, I think we all know you love Bondage games with women portraying Eva Braun. And if not here, surely like Thatcher.... they kinda dressed alike. But I'm sure she is your hero so that would be your dream date.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tobers

    @forget 86

    You dont seem to understand how the media works in Argentina nor Britain...You know, blowing things out of proportion to make a headline, capture an audience and thus sell advertising space etc

    Yes there were some rioting in a few streets in the UK last year that affected hardly any of the UKs 65,000,000 population. I believe there were some disturbances with the minor strike in 84 too....

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Forgetit87


    No one feels happy when the prices of basic goods go up, either because of inflation or because subsidies that expire. However, in contrast to the UK, Argentina has no unemployment problem - 3 years ago the UK lost jobs that it still has failed to get back. Argentina's unemployment rates, by contrast, are smaller than they were in the pre-crisis years. More than inflation, GDP per capita, and even GDP growth, unemployment is, imho, the most important indicator of any nation, and the most significant for a nation's political and social health.

    Apr 22nd, 2012 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias


    Perhaps you make a good point, but it is also important to have quality jobs. To have low unemployment at ALL costs, which is what unions strive for, ends up keeping too many weak jobs in the economy. Then one day the system crashes and those jobs dissapear anyway because they were inefficient and new machinery replaces the workers.

    That is what happened in the 90s. Argentina had been a closed economy for 40 years, and the unions did not allow anyone to be fired. That kept “unemployment” low, but the jobs became worse and worse paid, since they were more inefficient.

    Whether we like it or not, evolution is inevitable. We can choose to try to deny it or let it happen gradually. The best way would be gradually, allowing some slow opening of certain sectors so they can modernize without making the mistake of the 90s by opening everything at the same time in 2-3 years. But we should also not make the mistake of the 80s when we closed completely and that also fell apart as the country become totally inefficient.

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • you are not first

    21Xet or whatever CHEAP intellectual means:

    The UK economy is worth 2,400m and Argentina's is 440m yet the UK has less than 20m more people so which model do you think works better?

    AND...? Do you know any body who would like to retire in UK? May be Chinesse or from Philippines or YOU.

    The UK's inflation during 2011 was about 5%, Argentina's over 25%
    Read the Economist, Dec 2011. Argentina does not includes any Colonized territories or occupied lands.

    The UK has the highest credit rating in the world, Argentina has junk grade credit
    AND...? Yes, the royal family enjoys having the highest credit rating thanks to servants like you...

    The UK's economy has been one of the most stable in the world, Argentina in contrast defaulted in 2001 and has shown to be highly unstable.

    What is the future of such an Old Empire surrounded by polluted waters. I see, UK has an stable economy. According to the global market it is so stable that is called FLAT ECONOMY.

    The UK has the 6th/7th largest economy in the world with very little natural resources, Argentina has an abundance of resources yet is 27th in the list.


    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 01:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • BenC30

    The EU, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Japan condemned the nationalisation of YPF.

    Argentina continues to isolate themselves.

    There are roughly 1005,500,000 people living in the above mentioned states. If Argentina does not value trade between any of the above then continue on the crazy route of nationalisation... but Argentina will ultimately regret it!

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 05:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Conversion rates.
    1 Argentinian peso = Euro 0.17
    1 Argentinian peso = £ 0.14
    1 £ = Euro 1.21
    Is the value a countries currency an economic indicator?
    I'm not very good at economics.
    But, I'm not short on common sense.

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 05:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    @205 - You are not the first.

    Brilliant responses.......well they would be if they made any sense whatsoever!

    Seems I touched a nerve and the poster in question was/is completely unable to answer any of the points other than to offer the same worn out insults used by some Argentinians.


    Says the person who references places to retire in response to an economic question! And the next answer is even more ridiculous and isn't even related to economic matters at all.


    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 06:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • mastershakejb

    glad to be in Chile after Argentina, argie's really goin down in flames, it'll crash again within a few years, while its neighbors flourish, sad really, there are some great ppl there, just fooled by a nutcase “queen”

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 06:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    @207 - Reality check

    Currency is one measure for a countries financial health but on its own will not provide anything like a conclusion about the overall condition of any economy.

    Generally a strong currency value indicates faith by the major financial institutions in an economy. Hence the pound always being so strong, its one of the most valuable currencies in the world for good reason.

    In economic terms its good and bad at the same time. Its good for the country with a very strong currency when it comes to trading internationally i.e. buying products/companies and other items however its bad if the country manufactures because as we have seen in the UK, there is absolutely no way we can be competitive because 1; the cost of production is prohibitive (staff wages, tax, factory costs etc) which means products have to be sold for a great deal more to even break even and 2; its very expensive for foreigners to buy our product because our currency is too expensive.

    Even this short explanation is only a small part of the bigger subject.

    Did you know London is the currency trading centre of the world? Its by a huge margin the largest currency trading city in the world. It is for several reasons, the UK tax breaks are good in this industry and as London is time zero (GMT) it allows access to the largest amount of different markets in the working day.

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 06:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Thanks for the concise explanation.

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 06:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger


    I thought that you say that Arg salaries are a 1/3 of US and a ¼ of US. Am I wrong?
    “#150 tobias Argentines make 1/3 of the average European and 1/4 the average American.”

    For statistics matter the given salaries from 5 sample nations would be $2.629,2 in average (Germany+Spain+Belgium+UK+Italy/5=$2.629,2). Just 31% more but before paying tax what that could be 25% in average less.

    Then you have cost of living, what are comparative higher than in Argentina. Some countries like France, Italy or Germany has comparable or higher level of living standard than in US.


    I do agree with you women in Argentina after their 30 are impossible to understand and to live with.

    Guys what do you mean for large feet? I use 44/45 EU do you have feet or canoes? Ha ha

    Oh! UK economy strong as ever.

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 08:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    To be honest salary comparisons are fairly useless when comparing country to country.

    There are far too many variables for it to ever work. It's the same for living costs unless carried out at a deep level. A simple example of this would be the overall costs of tax in the UK are higher than the US but then in the US a lot of people have to pay for things like health care.

    As for the OECD reports, there's some truth in there but its also worth remembering this is a think tank and a lot of the items they publish are based on interpretation of facts and not facts alone.

    For instance, the same article states the following;

    “But economists are divided as to whether GDP will fall in the first quarter of the year. A number of upbeat surveys have suggested a return to mild growth in the quarter.”

    Which shows opinion is divided.

    In the very same month, the UK has shown a rise in employment levels and permanent jobs.

    Is the UK's economy strong? Absolutely. It's flat but remains strong.

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Chilean perspective

    99 DanyBerger
    Your figures are very misleading.
    You say “I official exchange rate Arg. economy is close to the combine GDP of Chile + Colombia.” ......... Argentinas GDP is USD$472.8 billion.
    The GDP of Chile is USD$ 272.1 billion and Colombia is USD$ 378.7 billion. ($650.8 vs $472.8)
    Can you add, this is not close at all.
    You also say “So we can say that Arg. economy is close to reach the trillion dollars in near future in out put terms.”
    You are dreaming. The only estimate I could find was that Argentina will have passed the 1 trillion close to 2050. Not in the near future.
    And finally you say ' Per capita $17,400 for 2011 the highest after US and Canada.”
    The GDP per capita nominal in Argentina is USD$11,453 vs Chile USD$15,453. Both of these are very low and require a lot of work to improve, but your claim that Argentinas per capita gdp is the third in the continent of America is bullshit.
    So who are you trying to fool???
    Answer: yourself.
    I'm still terribly interested in the Argentinian Keynesian experiment and I look forward to learning more about it.

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    This has been a very good debate and I truly wish no harm for my Argentine brothers. Perhaps ALL women are difficult to live with after their 30's and perhaps the Argentine women just have the fame for larger foot size, personality and beauty. Saying that, I had the fortune to marry a Chilena. I'm moving to other topics.

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    “Perhaps ALL women are difficult to live with after their 30's”

    Surely not Cristina =)

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Simon68

    216 British_Kirchnerist (#)
    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 12:07 pm

    That's because you don't have to live with her!!!

    Just living in the same country is utter hell.

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Retroqqq

    @214 The Chilean perspective

    why you only use the nominal, PPP exists for a reason. they didn't make it for fun.

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    217 Simon68

    I hear you, but don't loose faith, I have seen in the posts on this website that there are people who think that same as you, who are upset and angry with what KFC has done to your country. Not everyone is following blindly on.

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    #217 Not what most of your people think though is it? Surely if it was so hellish they'd have noticed?

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • tobias


    I think while getting exact figures to measure development are difficult, with salaries, taxes, what you get for your taxes, currency conversions, and local prices for basic items. But to get a general idea is very simple. Everyone knows Europeans are better off today than Argentines. This was not always the case, and could change again since there is a past precedent.

    I think that is why the world is rather annoyingly captious about Argentina. They don't berate Chile or Brazil or Mexico in the same way because they never have been wealthier than Europe. Argentina has. So now people around the world say “Chile is doing great, Brazil is doing great, Mexico is this, Uruguay that, Panama...”, yet Argentina which is at the same or higher level than those countries is said to be doing poorly. In a way is like the world expect one thing from Argentina (a higher standard), and a lower standard for the rest of Latin America... playing devil's advocate.

    As for what is large for feet, you do have feet on the larger side. My uncle is a 45/46 that is considered quite big in Argentina. In my personal case I wasn't exagerating when I said my family can have very large feet. I take 49/50 and I'm not joking. My cousin who is a girl has 44 and another 41. We are tallish but not 2 meters tall, our foot length is almost unheard of. We hate it. Everywhere us three go we have the biggest sandals/ojotas for a guy or girl, and people may stare and make a public issue of how darn big they are.

    As chichureo said, Argie girls just have the reputation of visibly larger feet than other latin women. Even if two latin girls are the same height, the argie girl's feet will be bigger, the toes visibly longer. A lot of women go to the USA mainly for shoes in fact, but even there larger than 42 is an issue. When this friend that is a 40 came back she said at the malls colombian/venezuelan/peruvian/mexicans were at the 38/39 isle and at the 41/42 it was all argie girls struggling. Big foots.

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • cLOHO

    More great news my RG friends :) jajajajaja (translation - it means laughter)

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    222 cLOHO More great news?
    “Investors jump ship after Borders finds Falkland gas, not oil”

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    Marcos, why do you have such an issue about falkland islanders? Even with no oil, their lifestyle is better than yours, and will just take longer to build up their infrastructure before they become a great independent nation state like NZ, Canada or Australia.

    What's your issue with this?

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Forgetit87

    Their lifestyle is better than that of Brits themselves.

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @225 Now that's just a barefaced lie.

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Your at it again, on another page, only quoting 1/3 of the article. Nothing about the city being supportive, nothing about high expectations, nothing about the well being unvalued yet. Really, if your going to quote something, quote it all. Anyone might think your being selective to falsify the facts! God forbid.

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Chilean perspective

    @ 218
    When talking about Argentina you cannot use PPP because INDEC fakes the GDP and the inflation rate figures.
    PPP uses a large basket of goods and services as well as the official interest rate. INDEC uses faked data and this is why ppp is not trustworthy. Nominal is more difficult to fake.

    Apr 23rd, 2012 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Forgetit87

    You don't like it, but that's the truth. And I know there are some Brits who resent that.

    Apr 24th, 2012 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    I don’t want to fool anyone, I just follow statistic for several countries and see the inconsistency of IFM and WB when reporting figures, taken from previous reports made by them. That’s all.

    I said “Arg. economy is close to the combine GDP of Chile + Colombia.”

    Close means close not exactly the same amount. If Argentina is a little bit more than 500bn is pretty close.

    And you forgot an 8% growth for 2011like IMF in your $472 GDP what makes 472.8+8%=$509,76bn
    The IMF projection seems to be a year later.

    Chile: $243 billion (2011)
    Colombia: $321.5 billion (2011)

    Total: $564,5bn - 509,76=54,74bn Pretty close!

    Now comparing the data showed by IMF in your link, they showed for 2010 $369.99 GDP(right).
    Argentina growth was 8% (right).

    Now why they reported 2011 update with $447.64bn instead of $399,58?
    27% growth from 2010 to 2011? with devaluation in the middle?

    Answer IMF for political reasons had been systematically under reporting growth by less than a half. And now the guys have a huge gap to cover up, that even a child of 5 year can note that.

    Umm mistery.

    “The only estimate I could find was that Argentina will have passed the 1 trillion close to 2050.”

    Is not like that Argentina has a super-devaluated peso on purpose, but historically its value was similar to the Brazilian currency. Now make the adjustment and you will have the 1t economy. Is called monetary policy.

    “The GDP per capita nominal in Argentina is USD$11,453 vs Chile USD$15,453.”

    This figure is in OER but per capita for all countries are measure in PPP and not in OER. Because distort reality so PC is for Chile $ $16,100 and Argentina $17,400 nominal is not used for that purpose.

    So get a cool beer sit down and wait for the next IMF fake report.

    Apr 24th, 2012 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Usurping Pirate

    230 : None of the above changes the fact that children in your country have to look for food in bins , yet your president gave her son U$S2.5 billion to fix Aerolineas Argentinas but he stole the money instead and spent a lot of it on a chain of hotels for the family .
    Forget the IMF figures , they are not important .

    Apr 24th, 2012 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    Surely the INDEC fake report comes out first hiding the fact their own statistics are nonsense and their economy is in a state of free-fall.

    Apr 24th, 2012 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    With the kind of friends we have in the EU who needs enemies??
    Argentina should stop wasting their time in EU and start looking in Pakistan, india and China for trade, isolation from vultures couldn't be a bad thing. No body will keep a pet bunny in a caged with snakes.

    Apr 24th, 2012 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Chilean perspective

    You are more stupid than you sound if you believe the INDEC figures over the IMF ones.
    You say your currency is under valued, how can that be when you have an inflation rate higher than 20% (some estimates put it a 30%).
    You are a tripper my friend, like so many Argentinians I have met. It seems to be one of your idiosyncrasies. You are the only country in the world that has gone from the first world (Arg was the 6Th largest economy in 1919) to the third world. Incredible.
    Stop believing the bullshit you are fed and start doing something about it. Argentina should be like Australia, you have NO REASON not to be.

    Apr 25th, 2012 - 07:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Usurping Pirate

    233 You DONT HAVE any friends in the EU .....
    Cristina is already selling the country to the Chinese.
    Fek me , if you think the EU are vultures , you had better start learning mandarin fast .

    Apr 25th, 2012 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @The Chilean perspective

    I was born in Germany “Mr. Chilean Perspective” and when I was so little my family moved to Northern Italy, for daddy’s job.

    After few years there, and after eating pasta, they desired to move to wonderful Argentina.
    Then I desired to live in Europe again and after several years, different countries and deceptions I thought... Umm Argentina is much better than here. So here I’m very happy.

    Do you think that all this changes have made me so stupid or perhaps the Buenos Aires climate?

    “like so many Argentinians I have met” I am really very glad you think I’m a 100% Argentinean very nice people a little bit crazy but none is perfect.

    Now be happy,

    Argentina is not an important country and if blow up who cares. If IMF says Arg. GDP is 5bn who cares, if “Economists” says inflation is 500% who cares? If EU ban Arg. Exports who cares?

    Meanwhile there is ink and a printer machine no problem. Look US how they being printing from the ’70.
    It is not fantastic?

    After all you sure are safe in your first world country whatever that would be.

    BTW where is that fantastic country where you live, that sure has a GDP of 4 trillions and is leading exporting country and everyone is very rich?

    Apr 25th, 2012 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @236 I think it's your new colonial master, China.

    I love how you write some nonsense, just because you're bitter about not being able to live in Europe because no one can put up with your lies for long enough for you to make any relationships.

    Apr 25th, 2012 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger


    Are you talking about yourSelf?

    Where are you from GY? You are not a EUC or Brit born?

    Come on tell me I will not tell anyone. Your writing is already a evidence of that.

    Apr 25th, 2012 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Usurping Pirate

    These campora boys are in for a rough surprise if they think the chinese are going to let them sit back and watch them do the work.
    They WILL exploit local labour
    There WILL be strikes as a result
    Then there will be a bloodbath , because they do not tolerate dissent, or give a rats arse about human rights , and if chinese economic interests are harmed , a chinese military presence will appear to protect those interests .
    I can't wait ....

    Apr 25th, 2012 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @239 Even more interesting would be if Chinese started impinging on FIG territorial waters on behalf of the Argtards.

    @238 You're La Campora, and I'm not La Campora... that's all you need to know, tardo.

    Apr 25th, 2012 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LEPRecon

    @240 - I doubt the Chinese would interfere with thevFalklands sovereignty, as it could effect their trade relationship with the EU and probably every Commonwealth country and the USA. They may make a few diplomatic noises to calm the rabid Argentine hysterionics, but they will not act, especially against a fellow permanent member of the UN Security Council, and a fellow member of the nuclear club.

    The Chinese will only ever do things that benefit them.

    Also, I'm sure the Chinese remember the Battle of Imjin River, where the British and Belgians (29 Bde acting for the UN), stopped their spring offensive in their tracks. The estimated loses: Britain 1,000 men, the Chinese: 10,000 men.

    At hill 235 the 'Glorious' Gloucesters (approx 1,200 men) held out for 3 days against overwhelming numbers of Chinese and North Korean troops.

    It was reported by some of the British soldiers taken prisoner by the Chinese that the Chinese general in charge said of the Gloucesters: 'If this is how you defend a position in a country that means nothing to you, then I pity the men that try to invade England.' Of course this comment can't be verified independently, but it does have a ring of truth to it.

    Unlike the RGs, the Chinese don't ignore what happened in the past, and don't rewrite their history if it doesn't support their current world view. They will quite happily take all the gas and oil they can from Argentina, and they will also be quite content to trade with the Falkland Islands for their oil. Much easier than trying to take it by force.

    Apr 26th, 2012 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    Argentina's resources have been wasted by successive bad governance. The country should be the richest in South America but it's not. There are no excuses. The present government of Argentina is leading the country down a disasterous path of isolation and the poverty that will ultimately follow.


    Apr 27th, 2012 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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