Escalation in the long-running dispute between Britain and Spain over ownership of Gibraltar shows “disturbing” Falklands-style tendencies. The warning comes from one of the Rock's MEPs after a stand-off between Gibraltar and Spanish police patrol boats over fishing rights. Read full article
Spain has its' own colonial enclaves in North Africa. If they want to press us on this issue we should remind them very loudly of the hypocrisy of their position.
Then we should start to openly support the Morrocans in their claim for the return of Ceuta, Melila and the other ouposts of Spain in North Africa.
Follow that up with getting the british to boycott Spain as a holiday destination (I never go there myself-I won't support people who are not our friends) and then tell them to forget having any bailouts for their imploding economy.
I have been reading posts in El Pais and El Mundo and as well as 'English pirates' making an appearance there are also some readers pointing out the hypocrisy of Spain holding Ceuta and Melila while claiming Gibraltar. At the end of it 'self determination' should be the trump card in this day and age.
The Spanish fishermen seem split largely according to whichever political party runs Algeciras and La Linea. I think Senor Rajoy's
'get tough on Gibraltar' policy is backfiring.
Spain needs all the friends it can find at the moment.
2- Not a trump card but a right, if the peoples of Ceuta & Western Sahara wish to remain Spanish so be it. But the same right is accorded to the Gibraltarians and Falkland Islanders.
Very interesting, but was not Gibraltar given to Britain at the end of the War of the Spanish Succession (Treaty of Utrecht 1713)?
Can you blame the Spaniards for wanting back a small piece of the Iberian Peninsula? On the other hand you can think what might have been had the Fascist Franco government had control of Gibraltar during World War 2?
All these land claims in the era of self determination are daft. Both Argentina and Spain need to learn the lesson that if you piss people off they are unlikely to want to accede to your demands. It seems a simple lesson to me but they just don't seem to want to learn it.
The other problem with territotial claims is that claimants tend to only want to go back in history far enough to the point where the territory belongs to them. It could be argued that half of Spain belongs to Morrocco.
Nations need to get over it. France doesn't fret about the Channel Islands and the UK doesn't fret about the Isle of Man. It is what it is.
@5
Seems to be the fad these days. Governments want to turn back the clock to better times. Look at a map of the world in 1713 (or 1833.) It becomes ridiculous at some point. How far should we go back to address political (or vindictive,) grievances?
@4 Then the Spanish in Moroccan territory should do what their argie cousins always advise. And go home.
@5 The “answer” is quite simple. What do the people of Gibraltar want? On more than one occasion, they have indicated their wish to remain British. And, noting Spain's crashing “economy” that is clearly in their interest. Bit of a no-brainer really. And I wonder how many areas of Spain also wish they were British?
@8 Another dozy Melvin comment. Come on, child. Show us the clause where the UK said it renounced its claim to the Falkland Islands. I expect we'll hear from you when you've faked one up!
@9 It's only a fad for some “people”. But, if you check it out, you'll find that when the Spanish ceded Gibraltar, they also ceded Minorca. So how about Spain gives us that back?
Sadly I wouldn't be surprised if some nationalist Spaniards might be communicating with their Argentine 'hermanos' who must possess equally brittle egos and tiny appendages, sharing tips on how to best annoy 'gringo'. You fought for it, you lost it, get over it.
It raises an interesting paradox - Spain says that Gibraltar does not have any territorial waters. How strange that the ONLY place to fish around the Iberian peninsular is adjacent to Gibraltar. The Spanish fishermen want to fish in Gibraltar waters because they can't fish in the waters off Algeciras because the nets they use are illegal under Spanish law. So the GC are protecting them in one place and at the same time arresting other fishermen near Marbella for doing the same thing as they are encouraging off Gibraltar. Surely this has nothing to do with the economy and the need for a distracting issue ...
perhaps 60 years of peace, has been to long,
it seems everybody is trying to take the piss out of the brits, because we are seen as weak, and the british goverment does very little to diswade from this, mostly being quiet,
[you can insult all you want]
just make sure you dont play the victim, when the time comes,
17 aussie sunshine (
It took Argentina less that 50 years to kick out aussie sunshine from Argentina The other argie immigrants have been less that 50 in Australia ...there time will come, too.
Australia has patience
.
@aussie sunshine : I wonder how long it will take the Catalans, Galicians, and the Euskarans to kick the Spanish out. Judging from their booing at the Spanish National Anthem at football matches, not long. Gibraltar will be British in perpetuity, and thats a long long time.
23 The Catalans have always been like that...now they want the Spanish government to pay their deficit. The Galicians have always been very nationalists ( Franco was a Galician and so is the current Prime Minister Rajoy) This separatists are a minority. Scotland and Northern Ireland is the same in the UK only, a minority. Independence is fairly hard to achieve at least in Spain.
Neither Scotland, The Basque Region, Catalonia etc will be able to survive independently unless they get Goldman Sachs to cook their books as well.
Franco was pro-nazi and Hitler said that a visit to him was like going to the dentist. King Juan Carlos is a democrat and stopped Spain reverting to a fascist type monarchy in 1981 - remember when the police colonel burst into the Cortes and fired into the ceiling!
Thanks Condorito - I knew about the Picts and Hadrian's wall.
What I did not know was that the Basques were also called Picts
Incidentally I am great fan of yours and read all about your adventures in the Chilean Comic strip - gradually I am becoming familiar with Chileanismos. I have close family across the border in Argentina.
@24 argentine sunshine,
You seem to know a lot about Spanish & Argentine affairs but very little about Australia.
Of course, silly me. You're not from Australia, are you?
Have you “remembered” the name of that hot Melbourne wind yet? lol.
Go on! Have a go. You might just guess it.
@30 argentine sunshine,
Where did you go to highschool in Melbourne?
l finished 6 years at Corryong High School in Victoria's north-east.
Can you make just a little guess as to the name of the wind?
Just for me, then l would know that you're genuine. ha!
What footy team did you barrick for?
Mine was Collingwood. the Magpies.
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesSpain has its' own colonial enclaves in North Africa. If they want to press us on this issue we should remind them very loudly of the hypocrisy of their position.
May 30th, 2012 - 06:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Then we should start to openly support the Morrocans in their claim for the return of Ceuta, Melila and the other ouposts of Spain in North Africa.
Follow that up with getting the british to boycott Spain as a holiday destination (I never go there myself-I won't support people who are not our friends) and then tell them to forget having any bailouts for their imploding economy.
Go away and be poor spain.
I have been reading posts in El Pais and El Mundo and as well as 'English pirates' making an appearance there are also some readers pointing out the hypocrisy of Spain holding Ceuta and Melila while claiming Gibraltar. At the end of it 'self determination' should be the trump card in this day and age.
May 30th, 2012 - 06:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Spanish fishermen seem split largely according to whichever political party runs Algeciras and La Linea. I think Senor Rajoy's
'get tough on Gibraltar' policy is backfiring.
Spain needs all the friends it can find at the moment.
2- Not a trump card but a right, if the peoples of Ceuta & Western Sahara wish to remain Spanish so be it. But the same right is accorded to the Gibraltarians and Falkland Islanders.
May 30th, 2012 - 07:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Let's face it - residents of Ceuta and Melila are not going to want to leave the EU and become Morrocans.
May 30th, 2012 - 08:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Very interesting, but was not Gibraltar given to Britain at the end of the War of the Spanish Succession (Treaty of Utrecht 1713)?
May 30th, 2012 - 08:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Can you blame the Spaniards for wanting back a small piece of the Iberian Peninsula? On the other hand you can think what might have been had the Fascist Franco government had control of Gibraltar during World War 2?
History is full of ifs and buts.
I await your comments, if any!
All these land claims in the era of self determination are daft. Both Argentina and Spain need to learn the lesson that if you piss people off they are unlikely to want to accede to your demands. It seems a simple lesson to me but they just don't seem to want to learn it.
May 30th, 2012 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0The other problem with territotial claims is that claimants tend to only want to go back in history far enough to the point where the territory belongs to them. It could be argued that half of Spain belongs to Morrocco.
Nations need to get over it. France doesn't fret about the Channel Islands and the UK doesn't fret about the Isle of Man. It is what it is.
Actually the faroes or ireland would be a better idea
May 30th, 2012 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Treaty of Utrecht 1713)?
May 30th, 2012 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Also uk renounce to MAlvinas at Utrech....
@5
May 30th, 2012 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Seems to be the fad these days. Governments want to turn back the clock to better times. Look at a map of the world in 1713 (or 1833.) It becomes ridiculous at some point. How far should we go back to address political (or vindictive,) grievances?
@4 Then the Spanish in Moroccan territory should do what their argie cousins always advise. And go home.
May 30th, 2012 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5 The “answer” is quite simple. What do the people of Gibraltar want? On more than one occasion, they have indicated their wish to remain British. And, noting Spain's crashing “economy” that is clearly in their interest. Bit of a no-brainer really. And I wonder how many areas of Spain also wish they were British?
@8 Another dozy Melvin comment. Come on, child. Show us the clause where the UK said it renounced its claim to the Falkland Islands. I expect we'll hear from you when you've faked one up!
@9 It's only a fad for some “people”. But, if you check it out, you'll find that when the Spanish ceded Gibraltar, they also ceded Minorca. So how about Spain gives us that back?
@8 Malvinero1 (#) May 30th, 2012 - 11:18 am
May 30th, 2012 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You were there taking the minutes of the meeting were you? I reckon it is far more likely that you just made it up.
Sadly I wouldn't be surprised if some nationalist Spaniards might be communicating with their Argentine 'hermanos' who must possess equally brittle egos and tiny appendages, sharing tips on how to best annoy 'gringo'. You fought for it, you lost it, get over it.
May 30th, 2012 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It raises an interesting paradox - Spain says that Gibraltar does not have any territorial waters. How strange that the ONLY place to fish around the Iberian peninsular is adjacent to Gibraltar. The Spanish fishermen want to fish in Gibraltar waters because they can't fish in the waters off Algeciras because the nets they use are illegal under Spanish law. So the GC are protecting them in one place and at the same time arresting other fishermen near Marbella for doing the same thing as they are encouraging off Gibraltar. Surely this has nothing to do with the economy and the need for a distracting issue ...
May 30th, 2012 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0perhaps 60 years of peace, has been to long,
May 30th, 2012 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0it seems everybody is trying to take the piss out of the brits, because we are seen as weak, and the british goverment does very little to diswade from this, mostly being quiet,
[you can insult all you want]
just make sure you dont play the victim, when the time comes,
Why has the US never had an issue with Bermuda?
May 30th, 2012 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do they not feel threatened by a tiny island off their cost?
perhaps their secret weapon
May 30th, 2012 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the burmuda triangle, scares them of lolol
It took Spain 800 years to kick out the Moors from Spain. The Brits have been 300 in Gibraltar..there time will come, too.
May 30th, 2012 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spain has patience......
17 aussie sunshine (
May 30th, 2012 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It took Argentina less that 50 years to kick out aussie sunshine from Argentina The other argie immigrants have been less that 50 in Australia ...there time will come, too.
Australia has patience
.
18 man!! you come right out of a comic book!! LOL
May 30th, 2012 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Beano springs to mind,
May 30th, 2012 - 11:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dennis the menace .lol.
Can you blame King Juan Carlos for wanting back a bit of his territory?
May 31st, 2012 - 04:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0@21 yes as its not his territory...
May 31st, 2012 - 05:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0@aussie sunshine : I wonder how long it will take the Catalans, Galicians, and the Euskarans to kick the Spanish out. Judging from their booing at the Spanish National Anthem at football matches, not long. Gibraltar will be British in perpetuity, and thats a long long time.
May 31st, 2012 - 09:19 am - Link - Report abuse 023 The Catalans have always been like that...now they want the Spanish government to pay their deficit. The Galicians have always been very nationalists ( Franco was a Galician and so is the current Prime Minister Rajoy) This separatists are a minority. Scotland and Northern Ireland is the same in the UK only, a minority. Independence is fairly hard to achieve at least in Spain.
May 31st, 2012 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Neither Scotland, The Basque Region, Catalonia etc will be able to survive independently unless they get Goldman Sachs to cook their books as well.
May 31st, 2012 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Franco was pro-nazi and Hitler said that a visit to him was like going to the dentist. King Juan Carlos is a democrat and stopped Spain reverting to a fascist type monarchy in 1981 - remember when the police colonel burst into the Cortes and fired into the ceiling!
Did you know the romans call the Scots and the Basques, “Picts”. Just a point of interest.
May 31st, 2012 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks Condorito - I knew about the Picts and Hadrian's wall.
May 31st, 2012 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What I did not know was that the Basques were also called Picts
Incidentally I am great fan of yours and read all about your adventures in the Chilean Comic strip - gradually I am becoming familiar with Chileanismos. I have close family across the border in Argentina.
They are good aren't they. I have a cousin who has every single one, right from the first issue.
May 31st, 2012 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@24 argentine sunshine,
Jun 01st, 2012 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0You seem to know a lot about Spanish & Argentine affairs but very little about Australia.
Of course, silly me. You're not from Australia, are you?
Have you “remembered” the name of that hot Melbourne wind yet? lol.
Go on! Have a go. You might just guess it.
I am an EDUCATED man and educated man knows the affairs of many countries except the name of the hot winds in my home town Melbourne.LOL LOL
Jun 01st, 2012 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@30 argentine sunshine,
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 10:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Where did you go to highschool in Melbourne?
l finished 6 years at Corryong High School in Victoria's north-east.
Can you make just a little guess as to the name of the wind?
Just for me, then l would know that you're genuine. ha!
What footy team did you barrick for?
Mine was Collingwood. the Magpies.
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