MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
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Chile tells Morales “it will not yield sovereignty over any piece of territory”
The Chilean Executive secretary general Andres Chadwick gave full support on Monday to Foreign Affairs minister Alfredo Moreno decision of not attending the Sunday session at the OAS General Assembly in Cochabamba where Bolivian president Evo Morales called for a sovereign sea outlet for his land-locked country. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesGood on you Chile; thanks for de-linking the Arg nonsense on the Falklands issues. Strong voice was needed to put down this Morales nonsense.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Some northern part of Chile should be handed over to Bolivia once grabbed.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 09:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argenweener stirring up trouble, they have no morals destabilizing the south american continent by manipulating bolivia in its own quest for land grab and resource taking, good to see Chile standing firm against such dated tyrants and their spiteful games.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 10:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Surely borders will now be heavily fortified Miliarizing the south Americas all caused by Argenweener and its childish meddling and interference.
I hope Argenweener gets all it deserves (and not demands!)
So Bolivia may have to learn the hard way. Being buttered-up by amoral pariah state argentina has it's costs'. A bit like catching a virus, or maybe selling ones soul to the devil. When one becomes known by the friends that one keeps, Bolivia seems really down on its luck.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh Peru, Bolivia and Argentina all rattle their sabers, but they're rusty and broken. Ours are sharp and and oiled waiting for what we hope is never necessary...
Jun 05th, 2012 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 05% of Chile's GNP has been spent to arm ourselves against idiots such as Morales. We can (and will if necessary) destroy the armies of all three nations simultaneously should we be attacked.
Don't be too impressed as our friends in the Falklands can destroy the core of Argentina's military forces with just 4 fighters and one destroyer.
The sad part about this is that Argentina is being destroyed from within by its own people with Cristina in the lead.
I knew that once it dawned on Argentina that it would get nowhere with its fake claim to the Falklands that it would straight away start making trouble for Chile, and sadly my prediction has come true. I am sure though that Chile will be assisted by its true friends such as the UK in many more ways than one in the slapping down of both Bolivia and Argentina as regards this attempt to steal Chilean land. Well done Chile for standing up to these bully boys.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”“Chile has no fears or doubts in presenting its ideas about the issue and it will be seen that they are widely shared by other countries within the continent,” Moreno said. “On March 23, 2011 he (Morales) said he was going to bring Chile before the (International Court of Justice), but it has been more than a year, and he can’t specify with what he is going to charge us with.”” Sounds familiar...
Jun 05th, 2012 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe Paraguay can start making claims against Argentina and brazil for all the territory they lost in war with those countries (that they started) in the late 19th cemtury
Jun 05th, 2012 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure had Bolivia and Peru won the War of the Pacific way back when and if Chile were now demanding land lost in that war......um yeah, Morales and Humala would be telling Chile to suck it. That was then and this is now. The borders are what they are.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bolivia can and does use the port in Arica on a daily basis.
Perhaps Chile might like to consider that an 1850 treaty between the UK and argieland ended the argies' claims to the Falkland Islands!
Jun 05th, 2012 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#9 hammerhead993: Chile lost the right to eastern Patagonia while it was on war against Peru and Bolivia, and Argentina cowardly took the opportunity to gain and blackmail rights over it paralelly, and I have never seen any chilean government officially whine about it.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's against Chilean dignity and pride to cry about spilled milk.
@11 That's because Chile has been too worried about things that matter...like growing their economy.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Surprise, surprise.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You must remember this pantomime is for the Argie and Bolivian electorate.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Morales, makes a big song and dance on the opening day but subsequently hasn’t submitted a motion. He has to do this, just as Chile has to rebuke him, in order to maintain credibility at home. It is all noise with no nuts, as we say here.
Well done Chile, but, you are wasting your time officially supporting the Argentines false claims to the Falkland Islands , because there is nothing in it for you. Nothing. If you were to support the rights of the Falkland Islanders, you would get more help from them and a more rerliable ally. Your choice. Go figure.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Chilean support for the Argentine claim is just superficial to keep their excitable neighbours quiet. It costs them little to say it when they are never going to have do anything but watch Argentine politicans make fools of themselves.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CFKC eventually visited Chile hoping to get the LAN flight to The Falklands cancelled and some big speech of support. She came away with nothing, remember?
Once again short-term thinking by the interns running the political strategy department of CFKC's government have failed to see how foolish it is to link their claim on the Falklands with Bolivia's claim on Chilean land. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
CFKC is soooooo desperate to get anyone to agree with her that she fails to see the Bolivian claim will piss-off the Peruvians and Chileans.
For a country that tells the world it only has peaceful intentions,
Jun 05th, 2012 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is doing a fine job, in not only turning countries against each other with claims, but the possibility of violence erupting,
All to serve CFK;S vindictiveness , and obsession over the Falklands ,
At this rate, Bolivia may well put the Falklands on the back burner,
For argentine support over land from Chile,
Especially if CFK already suspects Chile will let her down, and thus siding with Bolivia,
Could well distract Chile from argentine intentions .
Just a thought,
But CFK is playing a very dangerous game,
And the outcome may well be, what one did not expect .
.
what hacks me off about this is Chile getting all righteous over their land, but when it comes to UK land ie the FI they support Argentina. total hypocrisy.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yet again though south america shows itself up to be a divided continent.
Can't the South Americans simply accept that everyone is on stolen land, and then draw a “line under it” and say “This is where we are now, as this is how it will be forever”. If I've learn't one thing from this superb MercoPress newspaper it's how the South Americans seem to live in the previous century, not the present one. ?????
Jun 05th, 2012 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#16 ElaineB point important - states say things and states do things, but not always do what they say/say what they do. Chile has regional geo-political issues with neighbouring countries, as well as a Latin America integrationist heritage, and like all states, that may impede some discourse and narratives - but open other channels unavailable to UK, etc.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0While Chile may not be able to welcome Royal Navy ships right now, both Chile and UK participate in mega-regional Pacific Ocean military exercises. RIMPAC 2012 in a few weeks will see both Chile and Britain participating together on a huge multi-national team effort near Hawaii: http://www.public.navy.mil/surfor/Pages/RIMPACtobeginJune29.aspx#.T858wdV5GSo
Maybe now is the time for Morales to leave behind his Salida Al Mar claim on Chile and to push ahead with getting Andean coca-leaf chewing declared a Bolivian heritage asset.
@20 I think you are right about Morales pursuing the coca-leaf issue as it will have far-reaching consequences for his voters if he fails on this point. I suspect that as he is pretty unpopular at the moment he has been talked into creating an outside enemy - Chile - to grandstand and distract.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I get the situation Chile is in. They have a thriving economy and are on track to become the first developed country in South America. (Sure they have social issues to address). They trade with 48 countries and are developing their economy beyond copper reliance. But they have sensible heads running their country and they know it is important to keep the peace with their noisy but useful (for trade) neighbours.
@18 Cestrian
Jun 05th, 2012 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I hope you can see the contradiction in your post.
I the first sentence you scold Chile for showing unity with Argentina, then in the second you mock SAmerica for lack of unity.
Which is it to be?
Chile’s position is not hypocritical. These are two separate issues for Chile: in the first we defend our position on the north of Chile; and in the second we are supporting our largest neighbour in a dispute with a 3rd party. Is it hypocritical that the UK defends its position in N.Ireland and recognises French Guyana as part of France? – No, it is not, they are two separate issues, right?
Incidentally, I like most Chileans are on the side of the islanders.
“south america shows itself up to be a divided continent”
No one is claiming differently. South America is a continent that is divided into many different countries and we all have overlapping interests and points of conflict. In the last century Europe has gifted civilization two world wars, the likes of which have never been seen on other continents. One of the reasons the EU came in to existence was to bind Europe so tight that the slaughter of the two previous generations could not be repeated.
In the big picture the EU (not the eurozone) has been a huge success and I would be happy to see SA emulate it one day. However I think that for EU type root and branch trans-national integration to become a reality some kind of a catastrophe is required to galvanize the will of all nations involved...and we are not there yet.
@19 Moriety
I wish we could, but don't fool yourself, it is not an exclusively SAmerican problem, ask around in Ulster, Bilbao, Barcelona, Macedonia, etc.
@20 John
I don’t think we have refused any UK navy ships. I know Peru did.
@16 Elaine
Jun 05th, 2012 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can you please explain what the obsession the Argentine government wants with the Falkland Islands? They certainly dont need the land as they have plenty, they also know the Falklanders dont like them either, so why is the government so obsessed with this tiny nation?
I doubt you'll reply and I'm reluctant to to give my email on this site, but I simply cannot understand the obsession they have. History is against them, agreements are against them but we simply get a series of governments that simply will not leave these Kelpers alone. Is it because they are the smallest kids on the South American block? I simply cannot get my head around it. A meal/gig awaits in London if you can actually explain it to me.
Toby
Moriety
Jun 05th, 2012 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is simple. They have a tenuous historic claim. They claimed the islands up to 1850, then signed a treaty and dropped the claim. Then to stir up nationalistic sentiment, the claim was revived in 1941 and has been an issue since then.
Argies are taught at school that the islands belong to them and that they were forcibly taken from them by the British, this is why many get so upset on the issue you believe the islands are theirs as much you think Cornwall is in England.
The size of a country has never stopped a country from wanting more territory. The Brits don’t say, “oh we are bigger than Holland so let’s give the Shetlands back to Norway”.
That is about it.
Condorito,
Jun 05th, 2012 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I couldn't reply as I was the last to reply: but you posted just ahead of me.
Out of the posters, You, Tobias, Elaine and British_kirtener (whatever, sorry mate, I cant see it!) and Greek_Yogurt (If dismissive, always intelligent) are interesting.
You just made some super comments about our European Union in your last post.
You also commentented about NI: well, the island of Ireland has never yet been a nation: it is the last nation in Europe that has never become one, I wish it could, it's quite disgraceful, but it's not my choice. 1 in 4 Britions within the UK have Irish blood, 70% in the US apparently do, one is a joke, the other is real, And I'll stick to my British side with real family and history for the stats. We live next to each other, no one else does.
Some of my relatives took part in the Easter uprising, so what. Most people claim Irish Ancestary even though us English, Welsh, Cornish and Scottish outnumbered them more than 10 to 1, so immigrants to other nations would be....
The EU:
”In the big picture the EU (not the eurozone) has been a huge success and I would be happy to see SA emulate it one day.“ Just make sure you are a single nation before you attempt it.
The Northern Industrial nations of the Netherlands, Denmark, Northern France and of course Germany are now bailing out the collapse of this bizarre economic wonderland the WORLD has, caused by bankers in the UK and the US. I can speak for the UK if only to say that we are, as Napolean once said when we were not: ”a nation of shop keepers”. 25% of the wealth of the UK now comes from from the Financiers in London, but we have an overall economy that is 70% service-based. That is neither healthy or good.
To get a real EU you'd need a real united nation, and nobody wants that as we are all tied to our own nations and all are proud of their own history, as nations.
For South America, you would all have to agree on Spanish for the language (Brazil), and teach a common history..
Those Irish whose ancestors pre-date English conquest , are direct descendants of early stone age settlers who migrated from Spain.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 11:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Try the “Scotti” tribe of Ireland: they gave the name of of “Scotland” to the Scottish. I just cannot be bolloxed we it all. We all live on the British Islands.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@23 It is complicated and really has nothing to do with Argentina wanting the Falklands or the oil (that is a convenient excuse to play the victim). What they yearn for is a mythical island called Malvinas.
Jun 05th, 2012 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wind back to the 40's when a chap called Juan Peron visited Italy and became enamoured with Mussolini's brand of fascism. He realised it would work on the disparate, bickering, hot-headed Argentines in a very divided country. He needed something to unite the country to create nationalistic pride and he chose the mythical Malvinas, weaving a story of it being stolen by English pirates to unite the people. It all played into the myths and legends of Draco (Sir Francis Drake) used to scare the bejeezus out of Spanish children. At this time Peron was backing the Germans to win WWII, another reason to be anti-English (rarely did they speak of the British) and many British people were wealthy in Argentina. They made great villians to whip up hatered amongst the very poor; and there were many Argentines living in extreme poverty. The golden-age of a wealthy country possibly a rival to the USA as an economic superpower were well and truly in the past by this time.
Since that time, successive Peronist governments have perpetuated the myth to play into the victim psyche and create a common enemy. Seriously, the Argentines have no legal or moral right to the Falklands.
You have to speak to Argentines to really understand how brainwashed they are from nursery school level to believe this wonderful Disneyesque place called Malvinas was stolen by bad pirates and if only they could regain them then all would be well in Argentina. They would suddenly all be wealthy and their governments actually working for the people and they would be the best country in the whole world!
When you question them closely about the lies and offer them the reality of the situation, you can see the struggle on their faces. Because people believe what they want to believe.
and the truth really hurts them .
Jun 06th, 2012 - 12:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for almost treating me as a child in explanation.
Jun 06th, 2012 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think what you say is they are indoctrinated via school books, as children.
The one comment you made, which I'll agree on, as I have no realistic basis to argue or compare against is the blindigly obvious:
“this wonderful Disneyesque place called Malvinas was stolen by bad pirates and if only they could regain them then all would be well in Argentina. They would suddenly all be wealthy and their governments actually working for the people and they would be the best country in the whole world!”
Perhaps not how I'd put it, but I just couldn't understand why they (the government) will simply not leave this tiny weeny nation alone.
Have they no respect?
Thanks@ 29. I wanted to add that, of course, not all Argentines believe this nonsense and are fully aware it is a manipulation tool for the poor, under-educated, prejudiced, zenophobes and egomaniacs. They are not even the majority, but enough to vote CFKC in power so she can make tearful speeches to her poor, disenfranchised whilst dressed in her designer clothing before flying back to her grand home to count her ever increasing stash. (Every fascist/dictator is the same). She just has to keep a proportion of the population stupid and poor enough to keep her in power.
Jun 06th, 2012 - 12:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks Elaine!
Jun 06th, 2012 - 12:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry if I got a tad cynical. I think the Peronism (Fascism to me, nationialism to others, but both are bad). “Divide and rule” and all that crap was as destructive to the Germans as it's...... I've seen two women in power now that have both been destructive once in power (and got noticed). I wait for a new age where women are as common in power as us men, thus far, the prognocious (? spelling) attitude isn't good. How about actually serving the people, from a female point of view, in a mans world? (Yep, I'm a man).
It seems that if the world wants change: women in power are not going to deliver it.
@32 I am glad you posted again because I wanted to respond directly to you. I wasn't quite sure what you wanted in an answer from me, so I gave my opinion in story-style; I certainly was not intending to offend you.
Jun 06th, 2012 - 12:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do I think the Argentine Malvanistas have respect for the Falkland Islanders? No, not at all. I do not think it even occurs to them to consider the Islander's position. Argentina is a 'me firster' society, something it took a while for me to adjust to, especially amongst friends there. Added to that, their public education system is really bad. If they are taught at all it is to learn facts (some misinformation) rather than HOW to learn and question. However, they are TOLD that their education system is wonderful and the envy of other countries so they believe that. So, I doubt it ever occurs to them to question the lies being fed to them by their government. As I said before, people believe what they want to believe.
(Obviously, not all Argentines are the same).
One reason I despise CFKC is that she does considerable damage to women aspiring to positions of power in a male-dominated world. (Yeah, it really is despite us thinking we have a foothold). She is so obviously incompetent at the job she ruins the opportunity for more qualified candidates. She should be retired on the grounds on mental illness.
Now, Michelle Bachelet is the complete opposite; much respected and admired. There is always hope.
@28 Elaine B
Jun 06th, 2012 - 01:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0You do have a point;
“You have to speak to Argentines to really understand how brainwashed they are from nursery school level ...”
Have you seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Eh1B4a-RMA
At the least, scary
You have a point .
Blimey @34
Jun 06th, 2012 - 01:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0I dont speak Spanish, but even I understood the brainwashing. How sad.
@Elaine: Turn your attentions to promoting more positive females in Parliament: such as those who have children and want to collect them once school is over, and expect Parliament to respect it.
After all, did a man and woman made a child or was it just a woman, all by herself?
My son is grown up now and I've seen too little change in Parliment. They have their sessions untill 10pm, then continue after in the subsidised Bar: not too great if you are a mum of three. Speak out.
I would like to tell all the Brits that feel annoyed at Chiles support for the Argentine claim on the Falklands the following:
Jun 06th, 2012 - 03:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly, since 1962 this has been the “official” position. So it's not the current govs fault.
Secondly, ours is a marriage of convenience. They sell us tons of good cheap stuff (mostly subsidized by the Arg. taxpayer) and we would be bonkers to buy from others and pay more. So it is in our interest to stay sweet with them.
Thirdly, if the Falklanders want to change this position, then hurry up and start pumping oil and gas out of your offshore wells. You would see an immediate u turn on Falklands policy from Chile, as we got a huge hard on for LNG.
Lastly, most Chileans DO NOT WANT the Argentines to take over the islands. Our experience with the Argentines, particularly in 1978 have left a very sour taste in our mouths, and we don't forget easily.
Curiously when we talk about the Falklands on the TV news we always use both names (....Today in the Malvinas o Falklands....etc.)
Cheers gringos.
@35 I know a few people in both houses and it has improved; a little. But women can be their own worst enemy at times. Parliament is a little different as it was run like a gentlemens club for years, but it changed a lot under the Blair government. (I'll give him some credit there) Not enough, but it is a start.
Jun 06th, 2012 - 03:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0In my experience I had to be twice as good as any man to get the same recognition but I didn't bleat about making 'huge personal sacrifices' (with false tears in my eyes), I just made sure I was good at what I did (still do, but freelance). I understand why some women play the 'victim' and 'poor little me' card but I would never lower myself or respect any woman that did. Just sayin'. : )
Elaine:
Jun 06th, 2012 - 03:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0The closest I've ever got to Parliament was being with a New Zealand girl when younger, who somehow lived in an official property of the NZ government, but who worked for an MP. I'll never know who she really knew to get the job, but what I do know is women still haven't made their mark on society, and it's starting to piss me off. (As she wouldn't discuss it).
You I'm guessing, are Irish (by a single word): So come on girls. It's been a mans world (or women being men) for too long. If ever their was a case for positive discrimination it's this. F++k Argentina. Only 50% of the population have yet said anything, about anything, on the entire planet.
As I get older it really is starting to annoy me, as I watch the grey/blue/black/whatever suits.
I stayed up just to see if you replied: I hope you lot might do something about our crap political system a few of us have.... (Not Germany or DK obviously....), Nah, let's just stick to real women representing anyone.
I did actually check out the Chilean woman you mentioned and was very impressed.
More like her please, and sharpish.
Your turn Elaine.
I am not in England at the moment, so my time on here will be strange hours.
Jun 06th, 2012 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd like to tell you guys a story about women and power.
Jun 06th, 2012 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A good few years ago, more than I really want to think about, I took part in an advanced fire fighter course in a North American National Park. During the practical part of the course we were divided into squads of 22 people. Interestingly the most experienced fire fighters all headed forthose squads managed by women.
I, as an Argentine and used to the machista society, asked a Californian Hot-Shot what this was all about. His answer was very simple, women as squad bosses tend to bring back ALL there squad, whereas men sometimes lose a few to the fire.
Since then I have always supported women bosses.
@40 Interesting story. : )
Jun 06th, 2012 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 036, dont worry, we here in the islands do understandand respect the Chilean position- as more than one has said to me- “friends we choose, neighbours we live with - and look at the map”!
Jun 06th, 2012 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry Elaine, when I said “Your turn next” I actually meant the women changing the political scenery. Well overdue.
Jun 07th, 2012 - 11:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Moriety
Jun 08th, 2012 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't judge all women leaders by Thatcher and CFK, after all you wouldn't judge male leaders by Hitler and Stalin.
Two of the largest economies in the world are lead by capable women, ie Germany and Brazil.
#2...Murky think
Jun 08th, 2012 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your user name reflects exactly who you are, and how you think... Murky thinker...
Go study history and some laws of war.
The 1904 war was declared by bolivia and Peru. they both lost it, and hence signed the treaty and therefor have no legal or moral right over the territories they lost.
Same applies to the Occupied territories ofIsrael's west bank. What has been taken by a DECLARED war is the conquer's land. period.
@44 Condorito
Jun 08th, 2012 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fair comment mate, I can't argue about that.
Except: :)
Thatcher was the first female leader on the world stage, CFK is also as bullying as her. People dont notice the quiet decent female leaders we've seen in other nations more recently.
As they say: “If it goes right, nobody notices, If it goes wrong everyone does”.
Attitudes within the male-dominated political world (and the media) will change only when having a female leader is as common as a male one, but first the women need to really get there, as a woman, rather than a fake man. Sad but true I think.
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