MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Middle class Argentines protest with pots and pans against corruption, crime, inflation and the dollar clamp
For the third night in ten days angry Argentines took to the streets of Buenos Aires and other major cities banging pots and pans to protest corruption, rampant crime and insecurity, inflation and the dollar clamp in the midst of an economy that is showing clear signals of exhaustion and growing questions on the current course of affairs. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWhat percent of Argentinas population is middle class?
Jun 09th, 2012 - 05:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0I predict a Falklands deflection coming on!
Jun 09th, 2012 - 06:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0So basically only poor uneducated people and the rich and corrupt love turkey neck. Gaw bless 'em, every one.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 07:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe FIG could run their country for them.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 07:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0For say...........a 5% fee of course!
Put it this way, couldn't do a worse job, anyway!
This situation will really only get worse with her incredible levels of mismanagement and corrupt lying officials.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 07:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Britworker is correct, she will surely step up the rhetoric on the Falkland Island's like at the decolonization committee where she wants to colonize the Falkland's (it doesn't get anymore retarded than that).
And the truth is only the brain dead will be the only ones who don't see through her attempts at deflecting attention from her many and increasingly large problems at home.
None of this matters so long as CFK has her stash of Dollars hidden away & so you don't dwell on the matter too much she will jump up & down like Rumpelstiltskin about the Falklands
Jun 09th, 2012 - 08:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Statistics say Argentina has always 2/3 protests per day just kind of a sport..even though you have not problems.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 08:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0& 1
average as well as the other countries have.
Two points of irony here.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 08:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0a) they actually believe she, nestor or maximo actual care about their opinions.
b) if she was cast out of office, they'll undoubtedly vote in another Peronist for more mismanagement, populism and corruption.
So... no news here.
This is very interesting. Is it a case of history repeating itself?
Jun 09th, 2012 - 09:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Remember the coralito in 2001 when Ferdinand de la Ru(in)a escaped from the Casa Rosada by helicopter and the protestors (caseroles) were banging their pots and pans in the streets?
I sincerely hope that there will be no violence with consequent casualties.
Will CFK also have to escape by helicopter?
Will a new junta take over?
Will Dr Domingo Cavallo return to sort out the mess?
Don't miss the next thrilling episode of ”The trials of Cristina
@9 I've got my money on Maximo stomping in like the Stay-Puffed Marshmallow Man and saving her from the roof.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 09:26 am - Link - Report abuse 010 ..Love it. But we all know this is not happening, the rgs are fine living in near paradise. Yep wait for huge Falklands whine next week, expect a spectacular display of ignorant childish behaviour from reichmistress and tinhead.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 10:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Where's all the Arg bloggers to tell us this isn't happening?
Jun 09th, 2012 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0@12 They're probably playing soggy biscuit.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ha ha ha... ITS ALL GOOD!!!!!
Jun 09th, 2012 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0For all those ignorant kirchenists trolls your country is in sh*t creek, deny it!
thats made my morning, all we need now is a desperate act of deflection, could do with a good laugh. Bring it on
This country is lost for good, i cannot believe i hate everyone equally.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0You voted for her. You bought the turkey, now you are stuck with it
Jun 09th, 2012 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Wesley
Jun 09th, 2012 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't have any choice.
This is why i always thought voting shouldn't be obligatory in this country..
Oh well, glad i have the european citizenship. Here i'm hoping i can leave this cesspool anytime soon.
Does anyone remember the g20 meetings in Toronto Canada?? Argentina needs to put all this lazy trouble makers in a big jail and throw away the key, CFK We support your policy on the dollar, keep up the good work.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here we go again!! The ordinary folks are the ones who always suffer at the hands of these pr****.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A nation that could be one of the richest on the planet is destroyed by these mongrel politicians.
This is not like the ordinary protests which, I agree, are like a hobby in Buenos Aires. Usually average Jose goes to work and is told by his union that today he is to go and protest at a certain place and shout pre-arranged slogans. Jose doesn't give a fig about the protest but if he wants to keep his job he has to do what the union tells him.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cacerolazos protests are made up of ordinary individuals that have had enough of the government and CFKC's bonkers policies. It is much more significant and very interesting that social networks are being used to co-ordinate individuals. Like the Arab Spring.
Start the Helicopter!
Jun 09th, 2012 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maximo ate it :(
Jun 09th, 2012 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This protesters are Lazy people who rather go on the steers to party drink eat for free and break stuff, Argentina should take Canada G20 protests as an example and put this protesters in jail. lazy criminals belong in jail, we support Argentina's policy on the dollar, no one in Argentine gets payments in dollars, can anyone tell me who this people are and who has dollars in Argentina if they are as poor as this report will like to promote? Dollars?? No thanks!
Jun 09th, 2012 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@23 Partying, overeating for free and breaking stuff (Aerolingus Argentinas)?
Jun 09th, 2012 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you talking about General Maximo again?
@23 - Pirat-hunter - too eay, but I'm bored so I'll play.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here are a few names of Argentinians who would rather have dollars than pesos.
1. Cristina Kirchener - your El Presidente
2. Hector Timerman - your foreign minister
Oh hell, let's just make it easy on myself
3. The Whole Argentinian Government!
There you go, the traitors of Argentina. Your whole government!
@23 You are in the minority in Argentina, blindly following the myth that CFKC's government gives a rat's arse about the people. They are just power and money hungry. You, and the remaining few like you, are just fodder for them.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@12. I have repeatedly highlighted problems with corruption, crime and inflation to have been told by many Argentinian bloggers that the 'problem is worse in the UK'. Its totally laughable!
Jun 09th, 2012 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0spot on britworker (#2)!!!
Jun 09th, 2012 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even though the pots and pans banging triggered by our pathetic corrupt government saddens me a bit, I fully support those staging the protests. The level of frustration some argies feel is extremely high (me included), really hope Cristina´s helicopter crashes this time.
Funny comments on this site made my day! Have a great weekend everyone!
Maybe FIG could run their country for them.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For say...........a 5% fee of course!
Put it this way, couldn't do a worse job, anyway!
ahahahah
hELP UK IF YOU CAN...ISOLDE..
UK IS finished!!
1 TRILLION POUND PUBLIC DEBT,3 MILLION UNEMPLOYED,9 TRILLION POUND FOREIGN DEBT
Ah good old Malv, as per usual is posting the same thing over and over again hoping it will somehow be true but alas reality as ever escapes his grasp.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He is from Argentina and posting 'the UK is finished' over and over again yet doesn't really understand economics.
Argentinian inflation over 30%/UK 3%
Argentinian investment grade - Junk/UK AAA
Argentinian unemployment 9%/UK unemployment 7.9%
Argentinian GDP 447,644 /UK GDP 2,417,570
I could go on but its all rather academic when we compare countries since there is one clear loser.....
Helicópteros para tod@s.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry I couldn't resist a replay!!!
@30 You forgot to mention that Argentina consumes more cream buns per Maximo than any other country.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@18 Good idea! What then? A quick flight over the Rio de la Plata?
Jun 09th, 2012 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@23 Bet you've got some dollars, haven't you? Or are you too poor to buy one?
@29 Let's see now. This country that you talk about as being “finished” can put 4 combat aircraft a couple of hundred miles away and you wet yourselves. Then it puts a single naval vessel (just one) a similar distance away and you dump in your pants. Of course, it might be the 1200 troops we keep there at vast expense. Don't know how we manage. Oh, I forgot the nuclear submarine that “might” be around there. Can you afford a nuclear submarine? You haven't got any. Can you afford a state-of-the-art destroyer? You haven't got ANY destroyers. Can you afford next week's groceries? Did you know that I have 3 freezers full of food? It's so lovely to be a citizen of a failing country.
This is why the Argentinian Govenment is causing trouble again over the Falkland Islands they are trying to divert the peoples attentions from their own internal problems and save their own backsides
Jun 09th, 2012 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nat gas is running out in the Western Provinces!!
Jun 09th, 2012 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Toby, how is it going in San Juan? I heard they diverted gas away from homes and to the hospitals because they are having supply issues care to comment?
1/3 of the U$ bank deposits left in May! They are letting the banks lower their reserves so they don't collapse. Psst they're going to collapse anyway.
It is still cold in BA another week or so and they'll have to start rationing to homes there too...
brr
hahaha
35 yankeeboy (#)
Jun 09th, 2012 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jun 09th, 2012 - 04:34 pm
So far no problem with gas in Neuquén province.
No US dollars available here though, its been like that since the beginning of the month, and this is an oil producing province with lots of yanks living here!!!
@23
Jun 09th, 2012 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even before she was elected president of Argentina, Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner carried the haze of corruption. In the most famous case, an emissary from Hugo Chavez, the president of Venezuela, was discovered at the Buenos Aires airport carrying a briefcase stuffed with $800,000 in cash, destined, he later told the FBI, to support Kirchner’s presidential bid. Kirchner denied the allegation. Within Argentina, many question the huge fortune Kirchner and her late husband Nestor amassed since taking public office. Her declared personal wealth stands at $13.8 million, up from $500,000 when the couple first entered national politics. Kirchner cites income from real estate and hotels the couple had purchased to explain the 2,600 percent return on the couple’s investment purse. Corruption watchers complain that her government has neutered government oversight, giving auditing posts to cronies compromised by conflicts of interest. The result: corruption cases take an average of 14 years to work through the system, according to the non-profit Center for the Study and Prevention of Economic Crimes, and only 15 in 750 cases have led to convictions.
If she loved you, she would go,
Jun 09th, 2012 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0if she hates you and uses you, she will stay,
[and where is she]
@19 spot on
Jun 09th, 2012 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@2 Yes, CFK and co will need a bit of Falkland Island's (Malvinas) distraction politics to keep deflect the poor Argentine public away from the fact that they can't run a modern country and are politically and economically inept.
Question: Where is BK?
@38 That is kinda true because she must know she is completely out of her depth and cannot run a country. She can buy shoes though. She should make THAT her misson in life and make the great personal sacrifice of spending her stolen lucre.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL @ 32
38 That is kinda true because she must know she is completely out of her depth and cannot run a country. She can buy shoes though. She should make THAT her misson in life and make the great personal sacrifice of spending her stolen lucre.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeahh...elaine....She wil be much better than cameron,and all the crooks uk had since 1950...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbLfje8_jgI
BTW,the next president in Argentina,will be MUCH WORSE than her for MAlvinas.....
Malvinero, you make a point on that Trillion Nat Debt...
Jun 09th, 2012 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We would be a little more silent if we`d have that kind of debt.
Some brits think that live in The Shire and give all the time a lot of economic advise that nobody has asked for.
Take a look on yourselves before you speak...how many times we have to remind you?
If you think that she has trouble and problems running the country, what about the poor SOB who tries to run it after she is gone. I do not believe that Argentina can recover from the K mess in less than 10-20 years.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It isn't just the middle class who protest.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There were also cacerolazos in La Boca, a blue collar district.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGEpcL88AA4
@43 This is very true. I have noticed my CFKC supporting friends are now reluctant to discuss the civil unrest and the impending collapse of their economy. They prefer to pretend it is not happening or chat about other things; a bit like the CFKC supporters on here. I don't blame them.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 042 what are you reminding us about? Your sheer lack of understanding of economics?
Jun 09th, 2012 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And to be frank given the corrupt, failed state you live in, you should be directing your petty criticisms internally not externally to one of the worlds most stable and reliable countries.
You can't have debt (outside of the WCB) because nobody will issue it to you given you defaulted and refused to honor your commitment and pay it back.
Essentially Argentina trying to hand out economic advice is akin to Hitler lecturing other countries on human rights.
45 ElaineB
Jun 09th, 2012 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0oh yeah and where are the usual suspects? The likes of Think and B_K? I would love to see them try and put a positive spin on this one. How different this crowd is from the rent_a_mob tried to storm the British Embassy 2months ago. My, how the world turns huh?
We will just have to wait and see how many of these protesters start being dead once la camping gets hold to hear about this......
@47 Are La Campora packing up camp, do you think?
Jun 09th, 2012 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I notice on other threads there is desperate attempt at distraction from the reality. I honestly don't know which way this will go and I doubt the government does too. What is really surprising is that CFKC would even consider leaving the country at a time when there is civil unrest; unless she plans to leave for good.
It does not look good at the moment. The situation is getting a little “tense” at the moment wouldn't you agree?
Jun 09th, 2012 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With the economy in the toilet and food shortages, strikes happening left, right and centre.
I think that KFC will be looking for her “retirement home abroad” or at least, staying out of the crosshairs to try and save her saggy, cracked a*se.
@12 Ken Ridge @13 Greek Yogurt
Jun 09th, 2012 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have mentioned many times about the serious financial crisis afffecting my 2 countries ,the US and Argentina.
Here in the US we are loosing the middle class very rapidly. There is despair..But, we all can survive living with less...Think about the past generations that have survived without supermarkets, medical services, transportation and others services. It will take years of economic planning for the US pay back the 15 trillons dollars.. Argentina only has about 40 millons people. We all can follow austerity.
50 SussieUS
Jun 09th, 2012 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0eeerrrmm and arn't you forgetting Spain? which has just asked for a 100 Billion Euro bail out??
Soon we´ll see CFK looking for a Chopper with enough gas to fly very far.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wouldn't put it past The Mad Bitch of Argentina to ask the Falklands (there are no Malvinas) for Political Asylum!
Jun 09th, 2012 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0At least the asylum bit would be correct.
l'd give her a job as one of my farm workers.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0wouldn't put it past The Mad Bitch of Argentina to ask the Falklands (there are no Malvinas) for Political Asylum!
Jun 09th, 2012 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0At least the asylum bit would be correct
chris: You are an IDIOT!
uk is FINISHED! poor deluded ex empires...
Just get out from uk,while you still can...
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA
How dumb the brits in this forum!
@41 & 42 The thing you ignorants forget that Britain has a perfectly viable, safe economy. Unlike yours. You are, as ever, talking crap. Just watch what Britain can do. And then watch what argieland can do. And the answer is: Britain - anything it wants to. argieland - not too much. It can't reduce inflation. It can't provide energy. It can't borrow. It can't work. It can't deliver major projects. It's a slagheap sinking.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@55 Here's a little tip on how the “uk is FINISHED!” What are you so scared of? Our “finished” nuclear submarines? Our “finished” frigates and destroyers? Our “finished” combat aircraft? Our “finished” troops with their “finished” anti-aircraft, anti-missile and anti-ship defences? How about the “finished” Falkland Islands fishing industry, the “finished” Falkland Islands animal industry, the “finished” Falkland Islands oil industry?
Now here's a tip. Eventually you will push us TOO far. You are getting close. You WILL be looking at the destruction of every argie city, town, military base and anything we can think of. We can turn your cuntry into a nuclear wasteland. Be careful. Be very, very careful. And be very, very scared.
Malvi baby - yeah, so finished that i am looking forward to seeing that FPSO taking Falkland Island oil to the market. So finished that i look forward to filling the tank of my XJ up with it.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Get back to your black market and watching your betters bang their cooking utensils.
MIDDLE CLASS?.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can't believe that a serious website like mercopress publishes such a shamefull and very partial analisys. Most those hipocrites who were doing the cacerolazo aren't midle class, they belong actually to the richest sectors from capital federal which have always been anti k. There is a lot to say about it, and i will.
Firstly, i agree when they criticise the corruption, in fact, although i support many of the decitions that the national government took, i have always criticised too the suspitions of corruption cases that involve the government. However, all those hipocrites criticise and make such a fuss only for the suspitions of corruption cases that involve c. f. k's government, but they dont say a word about their intendant, mauricio macri, who was accused of illegal spy, and is being investigated by the justice, like others former integrants of his government who are accused of different corruption cases too. It's obvious that all those hipocrites are just using the argument of the fight against corruption as an excuse, but what actually annoy them, are the restrictions to buy dollars. Anyway, i understand that this kind of articles with very partial information, are great news for planty of the anti k, and anti argentina people who love posting comments here everyday, but unfortunatelly, you have no idea about how missinformed you are.
58 axel arg (#)
Jun 09th, 2012 - 11:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jun 09th, 2012 - 11:07
Yes absolutely middle class. And not only “clase media” but also working class, what do you think all the people losing their jobs because of Moreno's stupid import restrictions are doing? Sitting at home and watching the cacerolazos on TV? Don't be so stupid, they are out in the street, “aguantando el frío” to show their fury at the way Kretina has let them down.
This is what comes of sentiment about Eva Peron. As a result of her early death, too many people vuy into the notion that widows of certain dead president would be an appropriate replacement.This time they got a scary situation.
Jun 10th, 2012 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0@23
Jun 10th, 2012 - 12:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for referring to Canada, a country blessed with abundant resources just like Argentina. If you could only get your shit together and vote in a decent government, you might be as prosperous as us too :)
@58 AXEL ARG
Jun 10th, 2012 - 01:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0You couldn´t be more wrong...the richest people of the city/country do not live in those areas where the “cacerolazos” took place. They usually live in Puerto Madero, and many (mind you, not all) of them are politicians who have made millions of dollars over the last few years in power: Boudou, Alberto Fernandez, Vanderbrolle, Cristina (has just bought one more property valued over a million dollars in Puerto Madero) and all of their close friends. Oh, and even the most powerful trade union leader of the country, Hugo Moyano, and some of his colleagues could be included amongst the richest in the country... filthy corrupt bunch of politicians and “enterpreneurs” linked to this KAKA government, they are the richest scam of this country. CHORROS!!!
@ 60 Fbear
Jun 10th, 2012 - 03:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0“This is what comes of sentiment about Eva Peron.”
I am reminded of - not la Evita - but of Isabel Perón.
@37 Leiard..............
Jun 10th, 2012 - 06:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Truly frightening statistics.
I wish the Argentines all the best because they are going to need nothing short of a miracle to get out of this one.. By the way does anyone know if they have paid any money to Repsol yet for the theft of YPF????? I'd love to know.
Cheers.
@all
Jun 10th, 2012 - 07:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0What axel is doing here is classic distortion. Internally he has to deal with cognitive dissonance relating to: a) the fact the KFC government that he supports is collapsing his nation around his ears; b) the huge levels of corruption associated with the KFC government are bleeding his economy dry; c) as a member of La Campora he is unable to go into exile, unlike General Maximo.
So what Axel is doing is altering his perception of reality, and then he is trying to project that perception onto others by telling us things which aren't true, like the upper classes are revolting. He actually believes these statements, because if he doesn't believe them the dissonance causes him a huge levels of stress, by suggesting things like KFC and General Maximo lied to him. By La Campora maintaining this 'alternative to reality' they are able to keep people's attitudes to the government positive by ensuring the 'alternative to reality' blames the British, etc, and maintains the Argentinian perception of KFC goodness for as long as possible.
It's mildly orwellian, but basically the same strategy Goebbels used; If you tell someone lies enough times, they start to think it's the truth.
41
Jun 10th, 2012 - 08:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0BTW,the next president in Argentina,will be MUCH WORSE than her for MAlvinas.....
worse how? shes tried everything, perhaps you can tell me what new measures the new president will do :/
Tick, Tock stand back and enjoy the implosion (25%inflation,capital flight,non payment of international debts,energy crisis & power cuts,no foreign investment,farmers strike.........etc,etc............blame it on the Falklands !!!
Jun 10th, 2012 - 09:25 am - Link - Report abuse 065. A while back Axel told me 25'% inflation doesn't matter because everyone was getting raises more than that, my response was what happens when the $ runs out. I never got a clear answer on that.
Jun 10th, 2012 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well Axel the $ has run out...now what? You $3300/mo salary (maybe) is now worth U$560 by eom July it will be U$413 and maybe under U$200 by Dec.
Axel and Think HATE when my predictions come true. Wait for the comeback. Sputter blank blank blank ends with you lie. I have seen it 100x.
hahaha
@68 Remember O'gara - the pretend Irish person? 'Everyone feels rich in Argentina'. Not so much.
Jun 10th, 2012 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Elaine, It must be really hard for them to stick around while all of their predictions of everyone is getting rich (but not producing) mantra didn't quite work out as planned. I bet they are still reading though.
Jun 10th, 2012 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am kinda surprised Think aka Marcos aka Guzz is still around usually he disappears when things start going badly for CFK. I wonder if he has any gas to heat his house? The solar panels don't work really well when it is cloudy and snowy.
People have been very kindly asking after me, well I've been too busy having a real life to tackle this major thread (as opposed to the occasional witty aside) until now. But I can affirm I still support and adore Cristina, and am angry at the rich hypocrites, as axel rightly calls them, who are trying to bring her down not because some on her side may be almost as corrupt as their own plutocratic leaders, but because she is doing the right thing for the poor majority by restricting the baleful influence of the dollar. Well as the article said this didn't last happen when de la Rua fled or the junta fell, but in 2008, and that was followed by the triumphal re-election of Cristina the Great. I pray that such an outcome happens this time. And that like last time, the whole experience leads to a further left tunr and weakening of the oligarchy =)
Jun 10th, 2012 - 01:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@70 There is a bit of a pattern in that they usually lose their temper trying to defend the indefencible, say something blatantly outrageous and then disappear. I guess they are relieved of their duties until they can come back as another ID.
Jun 10th, 2012 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would be so easy to blame the rich for protesting, it fits well with the imagined enemy but CFKC is very rich, so how do you square that? The truth is, the rich will always be rich and they got their money out of the country years ago. It is the poor and middle-classes suffering under CFKC's policies. And being middle-class in Argentina is not the same as being middle-class in the UK. They are just a couple of wage-packets and a small amount of savings away from being poor. Take away the security of their savings and threaten their jobs at your peril.
70. Rich people don't protest! If it gets ugly they leave. I lived with them for years and they didn't care about the state of the economy at all. It was the upper middle class that didn't have their U$ outside of the country that were having problems.
Jun 10th, 2012 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately they have been taken down a peg or two through the last 10 yrs and are now middle class. The middle class is in TROUBLE, higher taxes, higher utilities well higher everything with their wages stagnant and rapidly falling against the U$. They're terrified.
A lot of my friend's families want to sell their property to have some U$ to survive but they are stuck because no one is buying. The same thing happened in 2001 except this time is going to be much worse and much longer.
The Ks have destroyed Argentina's economy and now it just has to reach the bottom.
72 ElaineB (#)
Jun 10th, 2012 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jun 10th, 2012 - 02:09 pm
You've hit the nail on the head, about the beginning of this year, only 6 months ago, I was quite well off, now I'm just managing on the same income. My savings, in pesos as a good patriot, have lost about 15-20% of their value in that time.
As representative of middle class Argentina I thoroughly support the “cacerolazos” against the corruption, lack of justice, criminal management of the economy and lack of security brought on by Kretina and her troupe od idiots.
At the end of 2011, I forcast that inflation would be 30% for the year Aug 2011 - end of July 2012 and I was well and truly shouted down by O'gara and the other idiots.
Jun 10th, 2012 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0AND, how long has it been 30% and it is only early June?
I don't know what to think from here: the disasters are coming so fast it could be total meltdown by Christmas.
Just a little concerned of the knock-on effect to Uruguay.
@63 St John
Jun 10th, 2012 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If your comment was meant as a correctrion, my comment was meant not simply about Isabel Martinez, who, like CFK was her own worst enemy, but also about Eva Duare, who, with Juan Peron, tricked the masses into idol worship and then had the bad taste to die of cancer while Juan was still popular and before his exile to Spain. Without her charisma, his second term was a disaster, and his third should have been non-eistent, as his faux devotion to labor ought to have been well understood by ordinary Argentinans.
However, like JFK in the US, he took on a mystique that allowed people to think Isabel would have had the same empathy for the masses. Didn't happen, as her ouster and eventual zarest in 2007 showed. So, as the old saw goes, with the election of CFK, Argentinians proved that those who fail to learn from the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them. In the case of Argentina, this hero(ine) worship can be traced directly to Eva Duarte Peron, as I said in my original post.
@ 76 Fbear
Jun 10th, 2012 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0not a correction but an unpleasant feeling, which has been growing for a year or more.
@77 St John
Jun 10th, 2012 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have been observing and worrying too. I am not in Argentina but nearby, with friends there whosde potential problems worry me a lot, especially when I heara president sounding more like a woman, younger than CFK's actual age, with a serious case of PMS. Talking publically about face lifts, et. As the economy tanks, she hauls out the very situation that the generals usdd to cover for their mismanagement thed lasst timd around.
@73 yankeeboy
The plunder of Latin America by the elite has been going on since the Spanish and the Portuguese first landed. While the English sent its rejects to North America (principally to the USA), much as it did to Australia, where they actually made a life until an elite emerged only by robbing their fellow citizens, the elite of South America simply came, plundered and returned, with absolutely no concern for the pl;ight of those they had used to enrich themselves. Thus it is a cultural trait for the rich to have no sympathy for the middle class and the poor. And don't forget that it is usually the elite who make the rules and levy the taxes on those less well off, in an attempt to further consolidate their own power and wealth.
This is why Globo and the elite despise Lula and Dilma in Brasil and try to expose the slightest corruption within their governments. But the Brasleiros appear to have learned a few lessons, though for how long is anyone's guess. The elite in Brasil continue to be worried, but apparently not worried enough to separate themselves from a little of their wealth th make their world a little safer from those who still are economically desperate. However, it could be that the fuse in Argentina has become a bit shorter and the explosion could happen . . . Pity that a government could waste an entire country for its own ease and comfort. Then again the USA is doing the same thing. Maybe it's just human nature to be so reprehensible and think to get away with it forever.
78. Wow what a bunch of left wing nonsense and a complete re-write of history. You need to read some books and maybe travel a bit so you don't look so foolish when you post. Sheesh I don't even know where to start it 's all such gobbledygook. good gracious!
Jun 10th, 2012 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@78 fbear
Jun 10th, 2012 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0WTF???
The most superficial load of left wing horse shit I have ever read.
yankeeboy (#) there is much sense in what Fbear (#) writes if you are a conspiracy theorist and believe in the Illuminati, One Worlders etc..
Jun 11th, 2012 - 03:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0The world is in a mess and this was caused by the unfettered use of financial derivatives, bankers believing that the “party”” would never end and so on.
Think about Syria, Sudan, Zimbabwe .........
@ Malv, I think you look at UK debt wrong. I look at it this way. I have just got a mortgage for £125000 pounds so I am in debt to that amount. Yet that does not mean I am up shit creek as I have the ability to pay it. I also have a loan. I also have the ability to that as well. It does not matter how large the debt is as long as you can pay it back unlike Argentina that defaults on all its debt.
Jun 11th, 2012 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0You could also compare this to Japan. Japan has one of the world largest economies. Yet its debt is 150% roughly (not looked up the exact figure) and it remains in very good stead economically as it can afford to run a defiecit that large.
If I have my facts wrong here let me know. Also if I am looking at it incorrectly.
I remember being there in 2008 during the last set of these kinds of protests. Was getting married but got stuck in BA with no way of getting down to Patagonia. This type of protest is always interesting as it is based on organic growth, word of mouth and, now, social networking. If anything it is a sort of 'anti-protest' due to the method of registering discontent.
Jun 11th, 2012 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0The fact that this is starting to happen does not surprise me. People are realising that they have been miss-sold an idea and, far from being the economic geniuses with a brand new economic plan, the present government has pushed the country into a stagflationary cycle. If you start looking at the hallmarks of stagflation it is normally brought on by one of the following:
1 Stagflation can result when the productive capacity of an economy is reduced by an unfavorable supply shock, such as an increase of trade tariffs;
2 Stagflation can result from inappropriate macroeconomic policies (e.g. the government can cause stagnation by excessive regulation of goods markets and labor markets + central banks can cause inflation by permitting excessive growth of the money supply).
Normally one of these factors is enough to cause stagflation. Currently the government is aggressively pursuing two of these policies while the 3rd (increased money supply) is likely to come as a result of the first two.
Stagflation can be the natural result of monetary pumping which weakens the pace of economic growth and at the same time raises the rate of increase of the prices of goods and services. We are seeing all of these factors at work in the economy at the moment and the rise in prices is being fuelled by the fact that, when negotiating wages increases, future inflation is being taken into account by the unions thus pushing inflation higher. Each time the government has a decision to make which could see them set away from the abyss, they take the opposite route and entrench themselves further in the mire.
#63 I missed that the first time; the idea that Cristina is anything like Isabel, who aggressively supported right wing death squads and was never loved by the people, is totally ridiculous
Jun 11th, 2012 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#74 I'm sorry things have gone bad so rapidly for you, but if these rather extreme swings are the way things happen in Argentina, then surely they can improve again once the fine tuning works its way through and the economy is atabilised and safeguarded from the sabotage of the very rich and financial elites. Surely thats a better bet than pushing more chaos?
#78 I salute your brilliant rendition of American history and you should take the attacks of the right wingers as a compliment. (But the MOST ridiculous left wing nonsense you've ever seen, Chilean Perspective? What about me?) Which is why I'm intrigued at your other point, about Presidential widows etc. Surely it depends on their politics, and Isabel and Cristina have, as I've already said, very different politics - different enough for the Kirchners to try to have her jailed for her role in the Dirty War. Some of your commentary on Cristina quite frankly comes across as sexist “when I heara president sounding more like a woman, younger than CFK's actual age, with a serious case of PMS. Talking publically about face lifts”. Well she is a woman, why shouldn't she sound like one? And a lot of women of her age have remained youthful for longer than was usual in the generation above them - surely thats a good thing, indicating both longer life expectancies and the advance of women's liberation. As for the rest, I don't know what PMS is and I've never before heard of Cristina talking publicly about face lifts. Please lets discuss this in a comradely way based on our shared anti-elitist perspective, but I think a defeat for Cristina would help the elites. What is your reason for opposing her and what do you think will come next if she goes?
BK, what a sickening sycophantic rant. You need to go to a psychiatrist.
Jun 11th, 2012 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why oppose CFK, hmm corruption, cronyism, kleptocracy, dictatorship, fascism, public theft, vote buying, rigging courts, trying to destroy dissenting media, destroying the economy, destroying int'l relations....on and on and on...all she gorges herself on the public trough.
Simply disgusting.
84 BK - with regards to your comment on Simon's situation, I’m not quite sure that fully understanding the real issue. These aren’t problems that can just be ironed out and some tweaking will not solve the major issues faced by the government. Cristina is no economist and she is continually making bad decisions. Even Keynesian scholars (who first rejected the concept of stagflation) eventually had to not only accept its existence bad also the brutal impact it has on an economy (this is poignant as Cristina seems to be trying to work with an adaptation of Keynesian economics). It is incredibly difficult to stop stagflation and normally people resort to printing money to keep the economy afloat. You keep on blaming the financial elite for the issues she is facing but these are currently of her own making. You may also dislike yankeeboy’s political view point but his musings on the economic situation are based on very sound economic arguments which have been established for a great deal of time and are also recognised by the left as the death-rattle of an economy. I can see Simon point and also his unwillingness to allow Cristina to tinker with the economy continually as each decision she makes and puts into practice is having a negative impact. Einstein said that insanity is “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”. Well, for Simon, he can see continual economic intervention with adverse consequences for himself. Why on earth would he wait around to see things “improve again once the fine tuning works its way through and the economy” when each time they have just got worse? That would be insanity…
Jun 11th, 2012 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BK,
Jun 11th, 2012 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are starting from a false premise, that Kretina is left-wing. She is not left-wing she is part of your famous ELITE, this woman and her husband made a fortune lending money to poor peasant farmers in Santa Cruz province during the Dictatorship and when they couldn't pay up Kretina and Fester took their land.
When Fester was governor of Santa Cruz he and Kretina “bought”, for a nominal price, fiscal land and then sold it for millions of dollars. Where the hell do you think she got herself a fortune of more than US$370 million?
If you really believe all the bollocks you write on these treads you are perfect example of “you can stuff anything into soft sh*t.”
@56 CONQUEEERRR
Jun 11th, 2012 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0POOR OLD QUEERRRRR, HIS “MALE” SENSITIVITY WAS TOUCH AGAIN AND HE IS SEEKING REVENGE.....HE IS VERY OFFENDED...POOR BABY HE IS CRYING AGAIN...HE WANTS REVENGE.......
THE US HAS HOLD THE UK MALE TESTICLES FOR YEARS... AND THEY CAN NOT EJACULATE UNLESS THE US TELL THEM TO DO SO....LAST TIME OF UK MALE EJACULATION, APRIL 13, 2003
SIMON68. GONZO. GREEK YOGHURT.
Jun 11th, 2012 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your answers were so obvious that dont sorprise anyone, anyway, i suggest to read my comment again, where i said that although i support many of the decitions that c. f. k took, i have always criticised also the suspitions of corruptions cases that involde her government, but unfortunatelly hate blinds your minds, that's why you make stupid and very partial analysis. In fact, all those hipocrites who were caceroleando in plaza de mayo only criticise the corruption cases that involde c. f. 's government, and dont say absolutly anything about their intendant who is being investigated of illegal spy, and you are doing exactly the same, that's shows that you are as hipocrite as them, who are using the argument of the fight against corruption, in order to criticise a government that you dont like. If some of you you prefer to compare me with goebels etc etc, that just shows the low level of debate that you have, that' s why you need to make such stupid comparisons. On the other hand, i dont know if you saw on tv what those people said that day, i did, and thats' why i could see that most them weren't middle class, most them said that they hate her, because we are living a dictatorship, they also said that we are going to become into a comunist country, many of them showed their ideological hate against the government, when they expressed that all those ex montoneros must leave the government, planty of them complained about a sopossed lack of freedoms in general, and complained about especially because of the restrictions to buy dollars. Anyway, if you prefer to interpret something different, i respect it, but unfortunatelly, you dont know how missinformed you are. With my last comment i tried to make an ample analysis, in order to tell what's behind that hipocrite protests, that's something that you couldn't do.
Axel,
Jun 11th, 2012 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What you comment above proves exactly what I said above, this is the middle class, and they are demonstrting against Kretina's government because it is totally corrupt. They aren't demonstrting against Macri because the Judiciary are investigating him and will or will not bring him to trial eventually.
You are absolutely right when you say that they hate her, that is because she has brought their hate on herself. I dislike her intensely, and I'll tell you why, about six months ago my wife, my mother-in-law and I could live quite well on my income and my savings were building up to something that would take me on a trip with my familly to see some of the beauties of my country, now my saving are worth next to nothing and my wife has had to find a job to keep us going.
Now if you are a paid La Campora troll, I can understand why you support this “lacra”, but if you are an ordinary everyday Argentine how can you be so blind to the truth?
@90 Somin68(#) Kretino
Jun 11th, 2012 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is your fault if you are saying not longer can afford anything or to make a living..You have had sufficient time prior to your retirement to buy land in Patagonia or to move to the argentine valley of Rio Negro where farmers gives FREE fruit and vegetables...You had a choice to plan your retirement years...so stop blaming the argentine leader...
91 SussieUS (#), I have bought land in Patagonia, and I don't want to live in te Valley. I did plan my retirement, very carefully and wish to live where I am, that is my choice, so what right has the Argentine president to ruin my retirement plans?
Jun 11th, 2012 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The same goes with you, you decided to live in the USA, no one should have the right to spoil your decision to live there. OK
What you comment above proves exactly what I said above, this is the middle class, and they are demonstrting against Kretina's government because it is totally corrupt. They aren't demonstrting against Macri because the Judiciary are investigating him and will or will not bring him to trial eventually.
Jun 11th, 2012 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0AHAHAHAHAH less than the corrupt incompetent criminals brits politicians.....
Anyway,with or without CFK,the next will be much worse on the brits imperialist..
uk is FINISHED!!Thanks to the lazy bum brits!
92 Simion(68)(#)
Jun 11th, 2012 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I keep repeating that with my 2 nationalities I can decide where I want to live and when. No one is spoiling my decision. But to blame Obama in the US or the argentine leader in Argentina about not making it during the retirement years is simple absurd!
@89 AXEL ARG
Jun 11th, 2012 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel, have you not taken your daily pill this morning??? I cannot blame Macri or any other governor of any province of the country for the policies brought foward by Cristina and her cronies!!!
Discussing any issue with you is like discussing with a 12-year-old...no logic and no objectivity. Are you paid to defend the indefensible in your in-depth K analyses? That´s really sad, boy...shame on you and your K lot!!!!
To all and sundry: I am not a conspiracy theorist, and neither do I speak from my back parts. My understanding about Eva Peron and much of 20th cdntury Argentinian history comes from my having been alive long enough to withess it. I don't base my understanding of the Peronistas and Peron himself on “Evita.” I don;t need you to tell me with such certitude that you are right and that I am so off base. Left wing? No, but certainly not right wing either. Nor would I delight in calling your philosophies tripe or worse simply because I disagree with them. As for those of you sho believe that my ideas are valid only if one believes in the Illuminati or that pigs can fly, well, look at history. Certainly there HAVE ben a lot of organized groups who don't give a damn about ordinary people. Read more? Travel? How do you know that I do not do or have not done either? My travels are vast and my reading deep and eclectic, and I have friens around the world from most classes and political persuasions. So why don't you all log a few “miles” yourselves and not rely on a good offense as your best defense and give some sound documdntation for you opposition rather than hurling insults in hopes that smart people won't notice how hollow they are. I did not rewrite history and Peron's exile was a fact, in Panama ands in Spain, where he had an apatment in the same building as Ava Gardner and other “elite” people of the era (and where he married Isabel only under pressure from the church). Kind of like “leftist” Fidel living the life of easde after the revolution in Cuba, while the ordinary people continue to rehab American cars from the 1950s. Look around at the world you inhabit and don't simply rely on what some writeer with an agenda has to say in one of the endless political diatribes regularly being published and hawked as authoritative. Read what is available from the period, day by day and see how very different the picture really was in most parts of the world.
Jun 12th, 2012 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Seems to me our RG posters are becoming a bit unhinged.
Jun 12th, 2012 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0SIMON68. GONZO.
Jun 12th, 2012 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With your last comments you showed how missinformed you are. Firstly, if you say that those people didn't criticise macri, because justice is investigating him, let me tell you that you are wrong, it's true that justice is investigating him, in the same way that it's investigating others former functionaries of his government, who are accused of different corruption cases, but it's also true that many of those people expressed their support to macri's government that day, and in others cacerolazos, and obviouslly they didn't say a word about the corruption cases that involve his government, that's why i say that they are just hipocrite, who only use the argument of the fight against corruption, in order to criticise a government that they dont like, and dont claim for justice for the corruption cases that involve their intendant, in my case, allthough i support many of the decitions that c. f. k took, i have always criticised also the suspitions of corruptions cases that involve her government, because i am not neather hipocrite nor injudicious. On the other hand, if your arguments are, kretina, or suggest that perhaps i am being paid in order to deffend c. f. k's government, that shows that you didn't understand absolutly anything of what i said, and it also shows the low level of debate that you have, that's why you make such pathetic comments. I dont deny that we have serious problems, and we all must discuss about them, because they will take many years to be solved, and we must be ample when we analyse them, we can't blame only the government.
if (when) things get really bad economically she will go down like her Northern African siblings..... I just feel so sorry for the Argentine people.... they are a lot more foolish than I thought.. she has robbed them blind of international respect and economic opportunities in a resource rich country.
Jun 12th, 2012 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0btw....I don't think it is that difficult to hide the stolen money/assets..... that is what she/cronies will try to protect till the bitter end.... and that is what the opposition needs to go after and publicize.
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