MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina with the largest number of protectionist measures worldwide
Argentina has implemented the largest number of protectionist measures worldwide, according to a Latin Business Chronicle analysis of Global Trade Alert data from the UK-based Centre for Economic Policy Research. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesTimmerman just doesn't get it. The reason imports have risen is because of the governments utterly incompetent running of the economy taking short term populist decisions rather than the difficult ones required for long term productivity and stability.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 06:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0The solution is to make Argentina a competitive economic environment - not slap on another tarriff to compensate for the latest economic shambles. Retaliatory sanctions make it pointless.
Argentina.........keep going protect yourself....dont care others...!
Jun 19th, 2012 - 09:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Although it's called “protectionism” it is not protecting Argentina from anything. Protectionism only works if you are trading from an utterly dominant position - and in that situation it is hardly needed anyway.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 09:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0However I am happy to watch Argentina slap tariffs on anything and everything it likes. The more it isolates itself from the world the easier it is to deflect the Falklands ravings.
As you were - carry on...........
Argentina's protectionist measures=191
Jun 19th, 2012 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Chile=2
Question which country is more succesful, stable and employs superior diplomatic skills????
Sometimes I just don't think Argentinians understand that other people can see beyond their lies... so they just keep telling lies... and everyone can see the underlying data knowing they're lies... but they just keep telling them.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's kind of weird to watch them doing this, especially about North-Korean style protectionism.
This is how Kirchner stays in power. Political corruption Kirchner / Argentina style. And they say “oh we won by 54% of the vote”, well how much of that 54% was purchased by the Kirchner gang and how many actually voted without getting a few pesos in hand?
Jun 19th, 2012 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyPC0SD0PGw
Its clearly not a straight capitalist/socialist split if the USA has 106 protectionist measures (3rd in the world) and Venezuela only has 11! It must be based on more complex local conditions; in Argentina's case, I imagine, redressing the toxic legacy of hyper neoliberalism
Jun 19th, 2012 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is protecting... it's protecting it's own economic death/implosion.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0@7 the difference is the USA comes from a position of power in trade whilst Argentina does not. The reason is that Argentina must maintain a trade surplus (i.e. it must export more than it imports) this is because this is the only way Argentina can raise money for the coffers, (as it is banned from mainstream international lending markets). However, if Argentina continues to restrict imports countries will turn tway and find other suppliers (i.e. Brazil) leaving Argentina without a trade surplue and hence bankcrupcy. These policies are part of a barmy economic model which is administered by yes men and cronies rather than educated economists.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I will give you an example in which the Argentina olympic cyclcing team are being prevented from importing olympic standard bikes from the USA because they have been told they must export goods up to the same value. Does this sound like a sensibile well thougth out economic model to you?
Seems like the lending issues are to blame. I hear life is tough in Gaza too; is that maybe because they are under an(other) illegal siege??
Jun 19th, 2012 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0err..... who is to blame for the lending issues?
Jun 19th, 2012 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Would you lend to somebody that has consistently refused to repay debts in the past?
@10
Jun 19th, 2012 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are trying to liken Argentina to Gaza? Really?
@10 Argentina is disqualified from the mainstream lending market due to it having invoked the largest soverign debt default in history in 2001. ($93 billion US). In simple terms the countries sepending was reckless and it could no longer fund its foreign debt repayments and had to default. This was no ones fault other than the Argentine governments since 1940 who spend huge sums of money and even after depleating the national reserve continued doing so. We are seeing the start of this again with the government pasisng laws along it to sieze funds held by the national bank (i.e. private money) just to enable it to make repayments on the world bank debt (the only organsation which will lend Argentine money) This is also why we are having restrictions placed on out buying of foreign currency so that the government can hoard the dollers to pay its debts which must be paid in dollers. People across Argentina are getitng fed up of being punished for the mistakes for successive governments and when we consider that since coming to power the decelared assets of the Kirchiner family have increased by 572%. It is easy to see why Argentines are demaniding chnage from this corrupr demigogery of a government.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting to know how Latin America's historical experience with Import Substitution Industrialization, while apparently of some success in Brazil and in México, was problematic for the development of other economies. But if Argentina now argues that its protectionist policies don't amount to ISI because of the high 30% rise in imports (by $ value?), question might be about whether those imports were related to ISI or not? It appears from Wiki info that ISI in Argentina has been dead for awhile, and that these CFK policies are prompted more by need for fiscal management? Interesting to know if the heavy involvement of Venezuela in buying Argentine debt might leak over to Venezuela interference in Argentina's internal or external politics?
Jun 19th, 2012 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import_substitution_industrialization#Latin_America
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import_substitution_industrialization#Latin_America
Does the 30% raise in imports have oi and gas in that figure? This year they have already had to CUT the gas to the top 300 mfgs in BA 3X more than in 2008 AND IT IS NOT EVEN WINTER YET! They are estimating that they need to import 1/2 of their nat gs needs! U$14 BILLION this year.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What happens when they run of out U$? They're pretty close as it is now....
@10
Jun 19th, 2012 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Remember that announcement regarding the 400,000 homes to be built where you had a pop at the UK about not building enough and were wrong. Apparently only 100,000 are going to be built (a government leak has confirmed). Also confirmed that there was no intention to tell the people that the would be a decrease of 300,000 in the number of homes.
15. CFK has bankrupted ANSES. There is no more reserves left AND they are worried about making the monthly Pensions!
Jun 19th, 2012 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would bet CFK will be in jail or exile before the end of her term.
@17 ANSES has effectively been used to underwrite everything since it was taken over, without that balance sheet to where will they turn next...
Jun 19th, 2012 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 014 JohnN (#)
Jun 19th, 2012 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jun 19th, 2012 - 01:04 pm
I think that ISI was never born in Argentina. Most Argentine entrepreneurs concentrated on HEAVY industrialisation rather than the more difficult and higher cost of high tech industries.
This is why the present import restrictions are harming the smaller industries at the moment.
The problem of ISI here is that it requires highly skilled labour to be able to substitute parts etc. This conflicts with the peronist need for a mass of uneducated people to maintain the voting base for the demagogue of the moment. There is no way that ISI can work with a peronist government.
Anyone care to predict when the $US invoice will arrive that they simply cannot pay?
Jun 19th, 2012 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm thinking the winter fuel problems might be the straw that breaks the camels back - or maybe CFKs latest Louis Vuitton.
20. There are so many bad things about to happen to Arg it is hard to tell which will make it collapse.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0a 3-4 week cold snap
Holding WB and IDB loans
SCOTUS declaring BCRA reserves are attachable
Collapse (thy're already bankrupt) of every electricity company in the country
Wage Strikes
Provinces not meeting payroll
Really hard to predict which one will happen first..
@21
Jun 19th, 2012 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BK thinks that the end of the world will happen first...
He was lauding her as the ideal president of a new world government a couple of days ago.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Imagine that - CFK with her hands on a $ printing press and a nuclear arsenal.
“The hills” would become a very crowded place.
22. Maybe the end of his world. I guess he will disappear like all the other CFK supporters that used to tell us the economy is great and it will never end blah blah blah...YOU LIE! Ugh glad they're gone. Although I do miss Axel and Ogara only Toby gives me a laugh now and then.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There does seem to be a large rolling turnover of Malvinista posters. Do we drive them to despair or do they simply get banned and come back in a new incarnation?
Jun 19th, 2012 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am convinced Think aka Marcos aka Guzz aka Tobias are all the same person.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How many people in Argentina or Uruguay can speak Swedish, English, Spanish...maybe some Swedish Embassy folks but that is about it. It would be extremely unlikely we would have 2 posting on this obscure board.
I concur the government had no choice but to implement the trade measures it has homologated. It needs at least a balanced budget.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What they need to do is to cut spending... but the they alienate the 40% that is their constituency, and which as I predicted, are the ones that are most vulnerable to any disruption in their economic model.
Now, if you ask me to choose between this model and a model of foreign debt and borrowing from the EU/US/etc, I much prefer this system.
Poor, but free.
I think the roll-over will increase over the next couple of months as inflation bites into the malvinistas' pay cheques.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Guzz seems to have died a horrid death already, but he did claim to be Uruguayan, so maybe he's holed up inPE begging on a street corner!!
Think must be riding the endless Chubut plains on his faithfull criollo and thinking about turnips and wurzels.
Tobias and his alter ego TTT are probably diving deep into different thesaura with an aim to blind us with erudition.
The problem is that none of those things pays the bills, and La Cámpora is probably out of cash with Máximo laid up.
Pretty poor prospect for the malvinistas!!!!
Poor but free....apart from to buy foreign currency - or a Big Mac.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poor but free..except you still owe a LOT OF U$ to Int'l Institutions, foreign creditors and judgments. I doubt the Int'l banks will be releasing any further funds or allowing the balances to be rolled over. The BCRA reserves are almost depleted. So now what? The WB and IDB don't take pesos.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not very free to buy Olympic standard bicycles by all accounts either
Jun 19th, 2012 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#11 “who is to blame for the lending issues?”
Jun 19th, 2012 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The World Bank and IMF, who first pushed unworkable neoliberal policies and then punish the default which was their inevitable result
#12 “You are trying to liken Argentina to Gaza? Really?”
Both are victimised and then further punished for their democratic choices by the so called international community. Although of course Gaza is even poorer as it is smaller, weaker and constantly bombed (including today, in case anyone else noticed)
#16 I'm sure if thats right it will appear in full on mercopress, they won't miss an opportunity to print a negative story about Argentina...
#22 I never said that. But I do think the Latin American left will head off their immediate difficulties to continue their project of making an imminent end of the world less likely =)
#24 If Cristina does lose power I will not repudiate her, I will continue to defend her in exile or against any persecution she may face in a neoliberal restoration, I am loyal and true and do not simply run after power, my politics are the same in every coutry and in most are in opposition. I just don't think its likely I'll get to prove my loyalty to a weakened Cristina, as she goes from strength to strength =)
@32 When she does flee the country, I'm sure she'll invite you along for your unswerving loyalty. Maybe you should give your gimp suit a quick Febreezing now, just in case.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Excuse me, while I throw up.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@32 Ahh thos old chesnut again, the it is not my fault that the bank gave me so much money. They had a choice as to wether to borrow the money or not (as did all those who got stung with subprime morgages). The moment an entitiy (person, state, company) agrees to the terms of the loan, takes the money and then spends the money they are responsible for its repayment and any default.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@27 I agree that what Argentina needs is a massive cut in public spending and that because they are unwilling to do this (as you say for purely political reasons) that the current economic model is not stable (i.e. spending more than you a) have and b) can borrow and afford to pay back).
Yes the european model was highly flawed and was caused by greedy banks over exposing themseleves to risky venture and not retaining high enougth levels of resveres. However, the difference between the EU and Mercsour is that the EU has systems and the desire to help members out when in trouble, i.e. the strong nations less effected support the not so well. This does not exisit in mercsour. In addition all the european countries most affected have been those with a history of large public sector spending and or low tax yields.
@32 need some tissues bet you used all yours up watching her drivel at c24
Jun 19th, 2012 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@28
Jun 19th, 2012 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are not good at physiognomy. Don't quite your daily.
@30
Argentina is not paying the defaulted money. That's why is called default. What is the point of a default if you must pay everything back?
Would you as an individual go to bankrupcy over 100.000 dollars if you still had to pay it all back after the procedure??
@31
The olympics are not a requirement for freedom. I mean freedom from countries like yours. The best thing is not to owe anyone anything, if it means not going to the olympics fine. No one in Argentina will be watching anyways.
37 Truth_Telling_Troll (#)
Jun 19th, 2012 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You are not good at physiognomy. Don't quite your daily.”
Translation please.
@38
Jun 19th, 2012 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You judge me for certain analect passages (selectively chosen by you), which I indite here; that is a very shallow and illusory analysis of any person.
39 Truth_Telling_Troll (#)
Jun 19th, 2012 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm afraid you're mistaken, I merely commented that you, in your two personas, were probably consulting thesaura to blind the rest of us with your erudition.
Not slectively chosen analect passage in the case!!
@41
Jun 19th, 2012 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I haven't used “tobias” in 2 weeks, ever since I promised to Xect I would stop using both names. You see, he is at least somewhat objective and I appreciate that. So I keep my promises to such people.
I see you also as Xect, somewhat objective, thus I treat you with much more respect than most other people here.
The easiest way I show respect? I'm very unique: the more respect I have for someone, the simpler my vernacular becomes. The less respect, the more you will see 15th century language in my writings.
Come on TTT you can't really think that that's a way for a G20 member to act.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina at the moment is still borrowing money from the world bank, My money may I add as a British tax payer.
The Argentine Gov is a bit cheeky isn't it by borrowing money it probably won't pay back.
Yes be debt free, but why expect us to pick up the tab.
@42
Jun 19th, 2012 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would help if you cite the latest borrowings by Argentina from the World Bank.
I'm not expecting anyone to pick up the tab, that is why I celebrate the fact Argentina cannot borrow to this day, it has not borrowed in many years, so that is good for us and for the lender (since they are dummer than house dust).
Sorry TTT, quite right, I should back these up with some source info
Jun 19th, 2012 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://data.worldbank.org/country/argentina
(near the bottom for finance info)
$9,376,674,673 loaned as of 4/30/2012 - only $2,500,000
Paid in as of 3/31/2012
That does not indicate when the money was borrowed, that could be from the 90s for all we know.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the last few years, there has been no major borrowings from that institution.
A complete pay-off like we did to the IMF would be best, and then withdraw from the body just as we did the IMF.
@45 TTT
Jun 19th, 2012 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem is Argentina is struggling to meet the payments, hence why it was brought in new laws to allow them to use Banco Nacional funds as well as the restrictions on doller purchases which the government needs to make these repayments. Like you said what is needed is a cut in spending.
To correct a misconception, British tax payers money does not go to Argentina in world bank loans, it is used like many othr countries to underwrite the loans.
TTT, ok, this page is a bit more helpful:
Jun 19th, 2012 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://finances.worldbank.org/Loan-and-Credit-Administration/IBRD-Statement-of-Loans-Latest-Available-Snapshot/sfv5-tf7p
(Use the filter so you can remove all the other countries except Argentina)
Ministerio de Economia y Finanzas Public has been receiving funds(or will be) and some are DISBURSING or APPROVED with repayment dates that won't even start until some years into the future.
I agree, an IMF style payoff is the way to go!
At the moment the the Argentine gov is being propped up by some of the countries that are effectively keeping it in power!
Kind of like that saying - biting the hand that feeds you!
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/09/29/us-will-vote-against-loans-to-argentina-in-world-bank-and-idb
Jun 19th, 2012 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The link above (althought a second hand source) gives some idea of recent and upcoming loans.
The problem is you are not propping anything “v”. At best only a couple hundred million dollars a year. Remember, the 9 billion is the entire history of Argentina with the World Bank. Which means the current active (what money is actually in use and not what was already used in such loans in the past), is a fraction of 9 billion (which is not much overall in Argentina's GDP), probably a few hundred million dollars. And “British” contribution is a tiny fraction of that.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina's budget is a few dozen billion dollars... If you want to believe you are feeding me and my government, be my guest.
WB and IDB loans have been disbursed yearly until now. I doubt they will be getting any more until they get a new gov't.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just because Arg thinks they defaulted doesn't mean that the bonds that weren't reissued don't have to be paid back....does the term holdouts mean anything to you?
Arg will also have to pay the ISCID judgments and the IDB and WB loans as they come due. I don't see them being rolled over while CFK is the still the dictator.
I don't see how it will be possible without U$ though...I 'm not sure where the U$14B for this yrs nat gas is going to come from...
@50
Jun 19th, 2012 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The holdouts are not getting a cent bank, they never even wanted to sit down and discuss in good faith.
Their choice.
sorry - correction to 47
Jun 19th, 2012 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0At the moment the the Argentine gov is being propped up by some of the countries (enemies) it is in dispute with that are effectively keeping it in power!
51. One of us will be right and one of us will be wrong...I have a pretty good track record of being right where Arg is concerned. At some point Arg will need U$ and they will have to deal with the holdouts. It is just a matter of time now.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Arg owes more than the BCRA reserves in judgments, holdouts, Int'l loan commitments. Arg is already already bankrupt you just don't know it yet.
When is SCOTUS going to rule on that?? Soon I think...
Um, Argentina only paid off the IMF by selling bonds that only Venezuela would buy. Now CFKC is indebted to Venezuela.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'Poor but free' , only someone that knows Mama will put the next meal on the table would say that. The poor are never free.
SCOTUS will rule on the BCRA reserves on July 5th. It is a very interesting case and could be a very hard lesson for Arg.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This ruling has the potential of destroying the economy of Argentina.
The US State and Prez don't want the reserves to be attached but their opinion is only taken lightly. Very interesting indeed!
@ TTT
Jun 19th, 2012 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even if it is was what you said, a couple of hundred million a year should be repaid in full!
As EnginnerAbroad links show the Americans believe that Argentina CAN pay
”We consider the stance of Argentina particularly concerning since the country’s per capita income belongs to the group of mid-income countries”, said before the US Congress Marisa Lago Assistant Deputy Treasury Secretary for international markets.
@54
Jun 19th, 2012 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Only any elitist snob like you would state the poor can't be free. However, in reality you are correct, in YOUR countries the poor are not free, they are slaves of the system. In Argentina, they are slaves of the politicians.
But countries are not people. If Argentina cut expenses it would never need to tap markets again.
@55
Yes, American court decisions are so obeyed in Argentina. HAHAHAHA.
The decisions won't have anything to do with Argentina in country. The BCRA reserves will be attachable worldwide and there is really no way of leaving out the US Federal Reserve/SWIFT when you are paying in U$.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So let's see how that goes after July 5th.
I never did understand why people blame the money lender for lending people money at a rate and terms that they both agreed. It's just a contract between two adults.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why is it suddenly the issue of the lending party when the country is so corrupt that it's unable to pay anything back. Suddenly it becomes not the borrowers fault.
Amazes me.
Weak minded people always want to blame other for their own problems.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do you think it costs 5-6X more to build a road or dam in Argentina as compared to the USA..BAKEESH MAAANNN
Like blaming terrorism on the terrorist and not the policies of the government right?
Jun 19th, 2012 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@57 You need to get out of your cosy bedroom in your parent's house. I am currently in a Latin American country where mothers often have to choose which of their children to feed that day. They do not feel free; I know because I asked them. They are trapped in a cycle of poverty from which they see no way out.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@59. Indeed. And the feckless attitude to paying their debts by the Argentine government seems to filter down to their supporters. One of my first-hand knowledge stories follows......
An Argentine friend of mine took out credit cards and maxed them out on what I consider frivolous items like perfume, eating out, foreign trips etc. She complains repeatedly that she has to pay the money back. I pointed out to her that she borrowed and spent the money so she has to pay it back. Still she complained and whined about it and the fact that the credit card company called her every day about the debt. Again I pointed out that she owed them money and they would call her until she repaid it. On about my third or fourth visit and her still complaining I talked her into getting a full-time job and meeting with the bank to arrange a repayment schedule she could afford. She kept to it for just three months before stopping. I asked her why and she said she had reduced her hours to part-time because 'working 7 hours a day was too tiring'. At her age I was regularly working 60 and 70 hour weeks.
Is there any doubt that the “argentine” is none other than herself? LOL.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Shoudn't have bought so many perfumes Elaine. Just a shower or two a day does wonders, maybe one day you Europeans will find out for yourselves.
As for “freedom”, do a quickie survey in your country. I bet a majority feel trapped by the system and not free. Sorry, that is a well known perception universally.
@63
Jun 19th, 2012 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're right that a lot of people in Europe feel under pressure but most of us do understand that we can't just sidestep our responsibilities in paying something back. painful now, but we didn't need to borrow when we did.
Argentina is capable of paying it's debts - why shouldn't it TTT?
Toby, I'm guessing since you are sidestepping our conversation you did a little research on the SCOTUS case huh?
Jun 19th, 2012 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Could be devastating right?
Brr it is cold in July when there is no gas....
Poor and free...or lazy and ignorant?
@64
Jun 19th, 2012 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not just Europe, everywhere.
“Poverty” is relative. You could enjoy weekend vacations in London, Paris, and Milan like yankeeboy and still feel a miserable, downcast individual, merely because your more affluent neighbors also include Dubai on their patrician escapades :)
As long as one can have food security, a secure roof, and personal health, one should strive to achieve social independence. The way not to do so is to take on debt, personal or private. Or also, to sire progeny you cannot afford (right, Elaine?)
@65
I don't really have time to educate myself on the matter, but I can tell you that usually in the cases of sovereigns judicial adjudications are rarely applied in pure form, geopolitical concerns nearly always trump the letter of the law.
And you bigots accuse us of protectionism.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Deaf dumb and blind,
And going downwards, fast .
.
So, TTT, you still think someone that has to choose which child to feed feels free? You are showing your immaturity again. It was YOUR statement that poor = free.
Jun 19th, 2012 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My friend in Argentina is not unique is rushing to join the credit card bonanza but not having the long-term view of actually having to repay it or the work ethic to even try.
@68
Jun 20th, 2012 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0What credit bonanza?
Just a suggestion: ask them why they sired so many infants. Cruel put pertinent question. I doubt you would have the temerity to pose the query.
@ElaineB
Jun 20th, 2012 - 07:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0I just wonder why you always have some “argie friend” in financial difficulties are you living in “Villa 31” perhaps?
@
What Argentina is doing is pretty clear.
As her, by own decision, is out of private financial market to borrow money to not create more debt.
And having still a remaining debt left by Menen & co from the ’90 to 2003, which Argentina is currently re paying.
The only dollars Arg. needs now are to server not replaceable imports and external remaining debt.
So Argentina by turning pressure over multinationals and companies that can manufacture same products in Argentina. The job is quite well done. After all who cares about multinationals only idiots and lobbyist.
The difference is that countries like UK and Spain to pay its “external interest debt service”, they need to continue borrowing. And to do that Politicians need to show “the Market” they are willing to pay even with flesh.
Not theirs or fellow coffers or happy bankers of course No, no sir otherwise with flesh but from the stupid taxpayer that ironically also have voted for them to do the nasty job.
So they are cutting on education, health service, basic service, etc, etc. contracting even more the dying economy and causing more unemployment and recession.
What for? to collapse in the near future of course. Why? Because is logic and natural.
Does ISI policy works? Of course it works here an example.
In the latest 90 toothpaste and shaving gel made by Gillette were imported from UK.
Since 2004 they are made in Argentina and exported.
Thousand of examples like this can be cited.
Once the remaining debt is paid and oil imports will be cut down due to more exploring and oil refining in Argentina, import restriction will be lax.
Next step? I will recommend to provide credits in pesos to small little countries and no so little to by Arg. stuff like software, sats, communication devices, engineering plastics, etc, etc.
Can I include weapons too?
@ 69 Truth_Telling_Troll
Jun 20th, 2012 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0“What credit bonanza?”
Take a walk down Av. Las Heras or San Martín and count how many signs with “quotas” and “préstamos” you see; walk through many other streets in Mendoza microcentro - or any other town in Argentina - and see the same. Even supermarkets like Átomo or Carrefour let people buy food in 6 or more quotas.
You know it and I know it (I was in Argentina, including Mendoza, 4 months ago), so don't pretend.
@70
Jun 20th, 2012 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0“So they are cutting on education, health service, basic service, etc, etc. contracting even more the dying economy and causing more unemployment and recession.”
Point taken, but your government is increasing public spending at rapid levels (was 30% of GDP, is now 45%) but to do this they are just printing more pesos (an Argentinean friend who works on social community projects in Argentina said funding for the projects in US$ had been cancelled and replaced with Pesos. She said there seemed to be an unending supply but, for some reason, the money didn't go that far even when increased by 10% each year). This just fuels inflation which always hits the poorest and middle classes the hardest. I understand the clash of ideologies between left and right with regards to social/public spending but this route is only going to harm the poorest in the long run as the rich will be able to hedge against it.
Furthermore, providing peso credits won't work where there is a huge inflationary problem and, if you can't pay in US$, then you won't be able to make “software, sats, communication devices” and there are special components that need to be imported to produce these. They are expensive and you need to pay in a proper reserve currency.
The fundamental issue with this is thinking that everything you need can be made in Argentina. In theory it might be possible but you would need currency reserves 5x the size of China just to get these industries off the ground, let alone maintaining them.
@ 70 DanyBerger
Jun 20th, 2012 - 10:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0“... a remaining debt left by Menen & co from the ’90 to 2003, which Argentina is currently re paying.”
Wasn't Carlos Menem an Argentine president, elected by the Argentine people?
Wasn't Carlos Menem an Argentine president, reelected by the Argentine people in 1995?
The debt “which Argentina is currently repaying” is the debt incurred by the elected government's erratic economical policy, not the usual “somebody else”s fault.
tinman
Jun 20th, 2012 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0a puppy in the making
Dany, You are so misinformed it is laughable to us and sad for you.
Jun 20th, 2012 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentinian hospitals are on the verge of collapse because they can't get medical supplies out of customs! Diabetics don't have syringes or insulin, there is little to no Cancer or HIV medicine IN THE COUNTRY!
These ridiculous import restrictions are literally KILLING PEOPLE!
It is hard to imagine that the people of Argentina are as stupid as their rulers but everyday I am convinced a little more.
@Welsh Wizard
Jun 21st, 2012 - 05:27 am - Link - Report abuse 01- Spending is a luxury vacation.
Using taxpayer money to save banks is silly spending.
You don’t spend on education otherwise you invest.
Do don’t spend on infrastructure otherwise you invest.
So I would like to know what you have included into your % calculation.
2- We are talking about macroeconomic and not personal or friend experiences.
3- “inflation which always hits the poorest and middle classes the hardest”
A guy without job in UK (with 4% real inflation) or in Spain (with 6% real inflation) is infinitely more harmed that a one in Argentina working and with 50% inflation. The last one loses 50% of what he earns and remain with 50% the other first ones get –4% and –6% and if in the future are lucky to get a job he ended up with a huge external debt. How much that will take from his future earnings?
4- Nope why inflation if you are lending to foreigners to buy your products? US having doing this since the WWII do you need any other proof?
5- Fist at all who said that Arg cannot pays in U$s? And second who say that you need much U$s to produce this?
Here and example How much do you think Ebay e-commerce platform software cost? Lets say a couple of millions perhaps?
With a cheap U$s500 I can produce something similar and if you have U$s 250.000 to invest I will sell it to you. Add value it is call produced from knowledge. And with the same cheap PC, I can make more money if I fund the rights clients of course. Ha ha
On the electronic stuff is the some a cheap Chinese laser beam (U$s7 cost) plus some other stuff total electronic cost U$s700 + some software can turns in a U$s 14000 commercial application sale.
On sats and other stuff same equation.
6- Last you don’t need any reserves the example is US they thrown U$s everywhere since WWII.
Why do you think the Euro in under attack at the moment?
EU is having WWIII but instead to use weapons someone is using $$$.
Think about it.
@St.John
You are absolutely right mate.
73/76 Menem's reason for the privatizations of the 90's was to ......
Jun 21st, 2012 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Raise capital to pay off the debts he inherited from the military dictatorship , which in turn deposed Isabelita because she was running up too many debts trying to pay off the debts left by the Ongania government, who was trying to pay off Frondizi's debts , who was paying off Peron's .....
Peron assumed the presidency in 1948 with so much gold in reserve that it didn't fit in the strongrooms and had to be piled in corridors of the Treasury .
When he was kicked out in 1955 there was nothing left , but a lot of debt , yet the Argentine people idolise him and his wife for trying to create a protectionist self sufficient workers paradise , which was never going to be achievable , least of all in Argentina.
Menem on the other hand tried to make Argentina a progressive , neo liberal economy based on free enterprise , hard work , exports and international trade .
The Argentines don't like the idea of hard work , preferring to live off the efforts of others , which is why ANY economic model is bound to fail in a country that by rights should be the 10th strongest economy in the world .
@Usurping Pirate
Jun 22nd, 2012 - 06:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Raise capital to pay off the debts he inherited from the military dictatorship , which in turn deposed Isabelita because she was running up too many debts”
The debt hold under “Isabelita” terms as you say (till 1976) was 5bn really a bargain compared with the 80bn left by the militaries.
I reality the privates big groups in Arg. used the military dictatorship to borrow money from abroad and never pay back.
Cavallo the former Economy minister turns private debt from multinationals and private Arg. big groups into a public debt. Like Cameron have done in UK with the banks.
Menem was a monkey ignorant that cause to Argentina more damage than a Tomahawk to a wood house.
Usurping Pirate come on where do you get all this crap?
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