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Mercosur doubles list of goods that can have tariffs raised unilaterally 35% by each member

Saturday, June 30th 2012 - 05:39 UTC
Full article 111 comments

Mercosur rejected an Argentine proposal to raise imports tariffs on all goods from outer zone to protect local industries, but accepted Brazil’s initiative to raise tariffs unilaterally on 200 goods, up from 100 agreed last December. Read full article

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  • Self Determination

    So much for free trade. It would appear Uruguay is the only country talking sense.
    Does Brazil, Argentina etc think other trading countries wont respond to these punitive tariffs ?

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Forgetit87

    Mercosur is designed to promote trade between countries within the bloc -- neither it nor any other trade group in the world was created so countries outside of it can dump products on the member nations. Is it sign of Britain's economic decline that your education has been so poor, SD?

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    Good news for Cristina =) Though Mujica's idea of partial windows sounds like it could be a workable compromise between free trade and protection...

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @2 Forgotten. Do you understand the concepts of international trade? Basically, the potential importing country says ”We want to buy this from (a.n.other country).” Having been party to international trade in a wide variety of sectors for a considerable number of years, I am not particularly aware of too many exporters that send goods to countries on the off-chance that they might sell them. But do we care? It is the IMPORTER who pays.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Forgetit87

    Shut up, you nuts.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    MercoSur would have probably worked if it's two biggest members DIDN'T MAKE THE SAME FINISHED PRODUCTS.

    It will fail...spectacularly with Argentina dragging them all down until the other countries cut the line before they go down with it.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    Oil, gas, gold, wheat, soy, meat, wool, wood... Not bad for a starter, don't you think yanqui? :)

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Guzz, Not sure how I can make this any simpler, Argentina and Brazil industries basically make the same products, refrigerators, stoves, washers etc. So they are just competing on price. Do you understand? Brazil doesn't need or want Soy or wood from Argentina do they?
    This is why MeroSur will never work.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    yanqui, watch and see Mercosur change into something else than a “free trade” bloc :)

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Guzz, I'll watch it crumble along with Argentina's economy :)

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Simon68

    The best thing Pepe Mujica can do is get out of Mercosur right now, Argentina and Brasil are going to shaft poor Uruguay the same way they want to shaft Paraguay.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    11 Simon68

    I agree entirely.

    The sooner Uruguay is out of the reach of the Big Girls, the better.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Simon68

    12 ChrisR (#)

    With the new port on the Atlantic, I should think that Uruguay and Paraguay would make great trading partners with US and UE. This could be the beginning of an Atlantic Alliance.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • slattzzz

    Guzz your a wierdo mercosur change into something else yeah a clusterfook,....oh they already are

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • jerry

    Argentina controls Paraguay`s outlet to the Atlantic through control of the Parana River. Paraguay is the one that can really get screwed by Argentina, and has been for a long time.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • slattzzz

    even more reason for the US/UK to build a military base there

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @7 “Oil, gas, gold, wheat, soy, meat, wool, wood”. “Oil, gas” - importing both. How's that working? “wheat, soy” - rotting on the quayside, aren't they? “meat” - not with all those “extra” hormones, yuk. “wool, wood” - is it legal to use the contents of your skulls?
    @9 A South American “jungle”? Gonna kill each other off until only the “top dog” is left? Do hope so.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    slattzzz
    Just looked at the map, poor old Paraguay is land locked, no oil support then. Have to be an airbase, still good old fleet air arm will come on board.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • rnbgr

    It will be interesting to see how the dynamic changes now that Venezuela is a full member of Mercosur.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    If you were in too conspiracy theories you might believe she engineered all this, you reading this Guzz?

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • TipsyThink

    8
    You shouldnt make deep comments here they have just hooliganist,gossip, ignorance comments

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • KFC de Pollo

    @2 Mercosur is designed to promote trade between countries within the bloc....

    I disagree its more to allow the dumping of products in Uruguay. Never seen any Uruguayan or Brazilian products in Argentinian supermarkets. Lots of Argie and Brazilian products in Uruguayan supermarkets though.

    Mercosur is a joke

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    reality_check
    If we see Lugo getting back into power in Paraguay in a near future, I would say the sudden rupture of democracy is a bit of a coincidence. Even so, why should the Paraguayan minority decide the path of Mercosur and South America? Lugo in all honor, but getting Chavez in is a win-win, no matter the outcome :)

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Guzz
    Five times in office. Now there is a result. Democracy rules. Question is?
    Who'se democracy?
    Viva Chaves! the hero of Democracy.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    reality_check
    The democracy of the people of Venezuela that, without asking your opinion, voted for him 5 times. All in order with the constitution of Venezuela that was changed after a plebiscite, according to the wish of the very same people. Viva!!! :)

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Guzz
    Well if you do not want my opinion, you should not waste your time by coming on this site, after all I did have the smallest, slightest idea, that was why we are all here. No?
    Just what do you find so disturbing about my views, that one man should hold power over people for so long, after all most democracies, do set a limit on terms in office. Unless you are a Russian where you set up a system to exchange the offices between each other, term about.
    Do you not feel a little unsettled that if a leader, wishes to change the amount of times he or she can serve, he or she simply has to organise a vote to change the rules. No?
    That is always assuming that the vote is fair, far from it to be for me to suggest that, that vote can be rigged. Therin lies the reason why it should not be allowed by any viable constitution.
    Do you see what I am saying. We have a constitution that says, our president can serve for a maximum of say three terms, for arguements sake. Then that same constitution says, oh we can change that.
    Question? What is the point of setting down a written consttiution if you can change it so easy.
    That is why ours is not written.
    On a personal point, if you are happy to live under one leader from cradle to grave, I feel for you, because you will never experience change!

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    Are you SURE you live in a monarchy?

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • slattzzz

    yep GSTQ

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Guzz
    Now why would you say that?
    Please explain to me just waht you think a monarchy is. I would like to point out before you answer, that our constitution is one of the oldest in the world and like other constitutions it is unwritten. Do you fully comprehend what I am saying, our constitution is not written down anywhere in our democratic system!!

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    Lets assume your are british (if you are US, the discussion is pointless...) A true monarchy, power (if any) goes in the blood (imagine la Didi's unborn children, muslim siblings of the future king, wicked....)
    Case closed, if you don't wish to argue that true power lays in the parliament. Then, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the representation of the members of your house of commons is party-based, and the party that ends up ruling the country, in coalition or not, is free to choose their candidate for prime minister. A prime minister can be elected and re-elected many times, all in the spirit of democracy. Now, still assuming you are british, you don't have a constitution. But a constitution is not certain natural laws that co-exists with time and harmony, they are laws agreed on based on need, knowledge, morals and human understanding. In every constitution, there are certain conditions that needs to be met if you intend to change, remove or add anything to it. If those conditions are met, every country has the right to choose their own path, regardless if you like it or not.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    Oh dear!! looks like President Mujica beat Maxi-baby to the cream cakes!!

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • slattzzz

    ships cat we like it GSTQ god save the FALKLAND ISLANDS

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    money is power , power is money,
    coruption wealth power money,

    parliment = about one third of the above, depending on your opinion.

    diana, you presume something that would have never have happend,
    trust my friend, never would have happend .
    ???????

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    reality_check
    Mayhap that is just why they can film you while you are having a crap :) Hey, it's not unconstitutional :)

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    South Americans have a tendency for Presz por Vida. They think it is democratic to have no one run against you.
    Of course in Chavez's case he is going to to be Prez por vida, He's not expected to make it until the end of the year anyway.
    Good riddance to bad rubbish...

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    yanqui
    Your democracy is the worst crap of spectacle ever presented for humanity :)
    First of all, you have to be a millionaire, secondly.... well, that's it, isn't it?

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Forgetit87

    This is so sad.

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/248750.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    British army to shrink to 82,000 men

    Yes foggetty, so sad, is it not,

    But hey,
    50,000 on exercises
    15,000 in foreign lands
    10, 000 at home with their families,
    5,000 on leave, [well deserved]
    1,500 on ceremonial duties,
    250 making lunch for us all,
    50 making a nice cuppa,

    And guess what, that still leaves us over 200 to deal with you lot .
    Far too many, surely .lol
    mmmm

    .

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    briton, you forgot conqureror, he is out feeding the sheep...

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    @30&34Guz
    Now why would you suddenly challenge me on my nationality, have we not verbally jousted on these pages many times? I most ceratinly am British and proud of it, also very proud of that part of Britian where I come from. Are you not equally proud of your heritage? have I not read on many occasions that you are the son, I hope I spell this right, of a Tupamoro? Do I cast doubts on your pedigree? Then why do you fell it necessary to cast doubts on mine?
    Now, linking a discussionon political institutions, to the late Princess Dianna' association with a male friend and casting slurrs on whether or not she gave birth to a love child is frankly, well, childish. I was under the impression that you were an educated person and wanted to debate seriously. I was obviously wrong, given your later posting of the filming of my bowel movements.
    Frankly, you have let yourself down, it shows me that by resorting to such ineptitude for constructive dialogue, you have conceded the arguement to me. For that I thank you, I did anticipate a harder battle. Oh, I thought you and Yankeeboy had sorted out this “Mayhap” issue. While we are on the subject. You sir, Madam or Ms are a Paltroon.
    Hear from you soon no doubt.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    When a person runs out of the truth, he tries another subject, when he runs out of these, he changer the whole thing,
    Then when these run out, he resorts back to his animal instincts,
    They do say, to insult someone for no reason, because you run out of excuses, is a sure sign
    The indoctrinated batteries are running out .

    Envy and jealousy of the very word British, might have something to do with it.

    mmmmm

    .

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    reality_check
    I casted no slurs, unborn children, meaning future ones, if any, hence the “imagine”.
    Don't try to look for emergency exits, you live in a nation that permits the re-election of the prime minister, and sticks to the blood-line when choosing its head of state. At the same time you criticize another nation for wants to change their own constitution accordingly, to have the same right as you do in your democracy. Yet you deny them this right and call them undemocratic...

    Didn't know there was anything to sort out regarding “mayhap”...

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Briton
    Luv it, 200 battle hardened veterans, more that enough to sort them out.
    Excuse me I have to go to the Loo and find the secret camera that that twat Guzz planted there. After all there are limits, if a bloke can not take a leisurely crap whilst reading the Sun, well, the world is doomed!!!!!

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • slattzzz

    guzz i think you need an emergency exit. No wonder poor reality check needs the loo all the crap coming from you is enough to make anyone run for the bog roll. You claim to be a ships engineer an oil worker etc etc, I don't think so because you are thick as mince, do yourself a favour and reinvent yourself as Think maybe?

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    43 reality check
    Agreed
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    42 Guzz
    Permits the re-election of the prime minister, and sticks to the blood-line when choosing its head of state.
    [confusion confusion, my horse for a confusion,][ice lolly]
    1, we can re-elect a prim minister, , as we do live in a democracy,
    But its very rare to serve more than two terms,
    We do get fed up you know..

    2, blood-lines, to head of state,
    This is very normal, if you had a queen or king, his heir would succeed him,
    Nothing wrong in that old chap,, millions of ordinary men, even today, give all or most to the eldest son .
    Quite normal,

    .

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Guzz or Toby, whichever it is it today... You are so jealous it is hilarious.....you sputter and spout such utter nonsense you only make yourself look more desperate with every post.
    Do you still have heat in Mendoza? Gas for the bus you take to work? How about U$, I see even if your kids are studying abroad they aren't letting you buy any. We don't take pesos in civilized countries you know...

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    @42Guzz
    Welcome back, no more silly inults then? hey? Well I do not know why I am bothering but here goes. Read this first,

    In the 2005 United Kingdom general election, the House of Commons had 646 constituencies covering the whole of the United Kingdom. This rose to 650 in the 2010 election. Each constituency elects one Member of Parliament (MP) by the “first past the post” system of election.

    Now there are several parties in the the UK , the three main ones being conservative, Labour and Liberal. Each of those parties elects a leader. With me so far Which ever party wins the majority of the vote, their leader becomes Primeminister. So we do we do not atually vote for a particular person, we vote for a particular polital party in our constituencies. Which ever party wins the most, their party leader becomes Primeminister. When there is no majority, a coalition may be formed and that has not happened often.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    briton
    Well, according to reality_check, it was undemocratic for the Venezuelans to remove the part in their constitution that strictly prohibited a head of state to be re-elected. So, of you have the right to elect and re-elect as you wish, and furthermore not only put a person as a head of state but also choosing for coming generations, with what right does he critizice Venezuela?

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    48 Guzz
    eye do not not know venezuelana, or what rules they have, so to be fair,
    eye cannot comment on his reply to you.
    thanks

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Guzz
    Man you have totally misunderstood me. I do not disagree with constitutions. I disagree with those constitutuions that can be changed, at the will of the person in power. Can be changed to enable him or her to hold on to power. Constitutions are supposed to be rules of how power is excercised. Chaves has held five terms, if he had is way, he would have another five terms.
    Now you tell me, what is the point of it!!! It is nothing moe than a dictatorship. Your fond of knocking Monarchy, what the hell do you call Chaves, King of Venezula, because he certainly aint going to be replaced in his life time.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    50
    Then you are just misinformed. Chavez did not change the constitution, he passed through a plebiscite all done according to the constitution itself.
    Of course constitutions can and have to be changed with time. You can't rule a country with a centuries old constitution that is totally outdated.
    If the Venezuelan people want him in power until the end of his days they are not allowed to choose so according to you, because it isn't democratic? At the same time you defebd your own right to elect and re-elect at will...

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Fine,
    You want to comapare constitutions. Ours has developed over centuries, his and others are younger.
    I would respectfuly like to point out, that our does not allow a person to govern in pertuity, whilst his and others seems to do so.
    Guzz, if you disagree with me, I would certainly like you to point out, when or if, you ever envisage him being replaced by demoratic means by another leader of Venezula?
    If you do not think he ever will be replaced, then please, enlighten me my friend, what type of political system do you call that. I would like your opinion, sincerely, no trick, what do you call that in South America?

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    He will stay in power for as long as the Venezuelan people want him there, the very same people that put him back in power when he was attempted to be ousted. The very same people that puts their vote on his name and not on the existing opposition. Same opposition that publicly announced that a coup was needed on a now closed TV station.

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Enough of this, answer me one simple question?

    What do you call a people that elect a leader, time after time? Happy!

    Because, I see no signs of that!!!!!!!!!!

    Jun 30th, 2012 - 11:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    Not for us to decide what makes people happy, friend... Much less dictate whom they should choose for their leader...

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 12:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Been waiting for you to come back on this one Guzz.
    Lets see,
    Your a Uruguyan I believe, you post here.
    Think, DB etc, are Argentinian, they post here.
    Chicuroe, Chilean Perspective are Chilean, they post here.
    I have read a Brasilian poting here.
    I have read a Peruvian posting here.
    I have read a Paraguyan posting here.
    I have read a Bolivian posting here.

    But Guzz, agree or disgaree with you, swap insults and point score with you all.
    I have yet to read a Venazulan post here.

    Now you explain that, or are you going to glorify their denial to the internet access that you, I and all the aforementioned people have.

    Tell me Guzz, if Chaveses Venezula is so good, where are the Venazualians?

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 12:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    Try a Venezuelan forum, or a news site treating issues of a more... caribbean nature :)
    Not many english folks in Mozambique's annual harvest forum, goesn't mean you people don't exist, have access to a computer, or is it an indication of your happiness by any means...

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 12:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Fuck you really are a pass master at turning the issue aren't you. You go on about Chaves, I point out his people have no access to this forum and you direct me elsewhere. Man, the point is, WHERE THE FUCK ARE THEY? YOUR HERE, ALL THE ABOVE ARE HERE, WHERE THE FUCK ARE THEY!!!

    Or do you the son of a Tupamaro, I lookek it up, believe they do not have a voice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 01:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    Well, regarding the fact that this is a site for, as it states, south atlantic news and Venezuela is a caribbean nation, don't be surprised if you don't find many Venezuelans around here, just as you wont find many Uruguayans in a carribean news agency forum...

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 01:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Oh man, now you are grasping at straws. I am sitting here in Norfolk, England, at 0230am gmt what, 8000 miles away from you in Uruguay. Corresponding with you via this 10 by 18 little box on my lap. Willing to discuss anything you wish and your response is that Venezula is a Caribbean counrty. Fuck sake Guzz, like or dislike your opinions, I at least credited you with more intelligence than that!

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 01:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    I have to admit I did the same with you... You didn't seriously expect to encounter a bunch of Venezuelans in a South Atlantic news forum, did you?
    You read these news for a reason, let it be the Falklands or mayhap you're a (former) expat. I read them because of my geographical connection to the news themselves, but what on earth would a Venezuelan be reading these news for??

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 01:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Now see mun, (clue there if you care to look for it) Why do you persistently refer to my lineage. Ex pat, if you are in fact a Brit and so on. Yes I would expect to find a Venezulan giving his or her opinion on this forum. Am I a South American? no. Yet here I am corresponding with you! So I ask you once more? Where are the Venezulaians on this forum. 28 million of them, surely you've read and corresponded with Brits here?
    Give it up man and admit, there is only one reason they are not here and that is because they are prevented from doing so.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 01:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    Well then, reality_check, do a geography_check and you might realize that Venezuela is nowhere near the South Atlantic... I haven't met any Portuguese people on these threads yet, what does that say about democracy in Portugal?

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 01:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    For christ sake man, this is the fucking internet, what the hell does geography have to do with it. If I was not talking to you in Uruguay, I could be talking to someone in Outer mongolia, Australia or fucking Tibet. There are no boundaries, that is what is so great about it. Yet you persist in geographical clap trap to avoid the truth. What the hell is wrong with you man, what has happened to your priciples that you resort to that crap!! You postulated that Venezula under Chavez was a great country, I came back with a counter arguement and your response is what? a fucking Geography lesson!
    Shit man, what has happened to you, you tired or something?

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 02:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    The ignorance of some people is flabbergasting…..

    1) Mr. Chavez has served 2 (two) electoral terms. He is currently serving his third. He has been in power for 13 years.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_chavez#Presidency

    2) Anglo countries have a long tradition of reelecting their leaders…

    Canada: William Lyon Mackenzie King, six terms (6), 21 years in power.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_chavez#Presidency

    Australia: Sir Robert Menzies, eight terms (8), 18 years in power.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_chavez#Presidency

    New Zealand: Richard Seddon, 13 years in power.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_chavez#Presidency

    Etc…etc…etc…

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 03:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    reality_check
    You draw parallels between the (lack of) Venezuelans on these threads and their democracy. First of all,democracy is not based on how many of your countries citizens post comments in Mercopress. Secondly, the facct that I've never seen a Portuguese post in these very same threads does not mean their democracy is flawed, only your arguments...

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 07:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Think
    Read it all now. You are actually comparing the democracies of Canada, Australia and New Zealand to that of Chaveses Venezula. You realise how ridiculous that makes you look. Anglos vote for a political party, those parties select their leader, if his or her party wins then he or she becomes head of government.
    Those leaders of the losing party, form the head of the opposition in their respective parliaments.
    How many political parties in Venezula? where is their opposition in their parliament???
    Guzz
    Yes I am, I would rather hear it from the horses mouth, unfortunately those horses do not seem to appear on here. Argentinians, Boliovians, Chileans, Uruguyans, Paraguyans and Brasilians do. Now why is that?
    If someone is going to sing the praises of Chaves, I for one would like him or her to be someone who actually has experience of living under him. Not some admirer of his utopian society, but from an actual “Utopian!”

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 08:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    Then, my friend reality_check, you are looking for apples in an orange tree. Again I must point you towards a news agency that deals with Caribbean news if you want to exchange words with Venezuelans. As I already told you, me meeting no Portuguese people here does not say anything about Portugals democracy, now does it?

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    I will say it one more time. this little box I am tapping on his a lap top computer. It connects me to the I N T E R N E T. It also connects millions of other to the I N T E R N E T. People like you and me!!! but not Venezulans it seems.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    And you base that assumtion on them not being present in MP? :)
    By the way, Venezuelas national congress is made up by some 12 different parties...

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 08:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Yeah, twelve, wow!! that is a lot of parties. How many representatives do they each have? Let me guess, one!!!

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    I wouldn't know, but if it's a guessing contest I'll say... 15 each!
    For the upcoming elections, the opposition in Venezuela has put forward Henrique Capriles Radonski as their presidential candidate. Venezuelan people are free to vote for him, should they want to, all according to democracy.
    Venezuela has had more election in the past decade than any european nation (except Germany voting to bail out minion states or not :) ), a proof that Venezuela not only is democratic, but also even more so than the whole of Europe. And before you mention it, yes, the elections in Venezuela are transparent, and the participation high, as any international observer can tell you...

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 08:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Since 1998, Chávez, who came to power backed by the leftist Patriotic Pole, a coalition of parties that includes the Communist Party of Venezuela, has dramatically changed the power structure in the country. Chávez's Fifth Republic Movement is the largest party in Venezuela but it is a highly personalist party and few expect it to survive beyond Chávez's political career. The two traditional parties, AD and COPEI, have not recovered from the 1998 election and despite having a few seats in parliament, have been unsuccessful in mounting an organized democratic opposition against Chávez. For all practical matters, the only party that exists in Venezuela as of mid 2003 is Chávez's Fifth Republic with the rest of the political spectrum being highly fractionalized.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 09:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    It's not V Republic , it's PSUV...
    Fact is that a majority of Venezuela want Chavez to lead their country, a fact that is mirrored in the national assembly. That the opposition is unable to find a common ground to regain votes is not Chavez fault, he is not locking up political counterparts, nor prohibiting other ideologies. Yes, he closed a TV station, or rather denied to renew its contract, for calling for a coup. Something that would be outrageuos in Sweden, Britain, Uruguay and yes, Venezuela aswell.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 09:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Still, what will happen when he goes and no that is not a reference to his cancer. I would not wish that on anyone. Seriously what will happen when he goes? chaos, how can any democracy operate around the persona of one person and be called a democracy. Contradiction in terms.
    Bye. have a pressing engagement!

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Max

    & 30

    the most clever comment in this forum,

    normally the English can't defende/reply on contra point becouse their
    senses are full of memorized empty drivenness maybe they are afraid of MI5/MI6..or else to say all thought thinking.

    democracies are not different from other regimes(*(my favorite is dictatorship..i have never voted in my life !)*)where you can't determine the nominees ,just elect one of them who were determined before in line election days..

    also democracies are slow, numb regimes even if unspotted can't resolve socio economic problems..as we see on present problems.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    76
    Problem with dictatorships is that you would need a ruler that puts the nations interests before his own, a hard thing to do while he decides everything. Would you find such a ruler, you are faced with a problem the day he leaves. I don't agree with dictatorships, as even in its best clothes is nothing but an imposed short term solution by force if need be.
    Democracy is the best solution, but not the double morale one, the one that says act as I say and not as I do... you know, the European version

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Only a f''in idiot would think Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador or Argentina, t have functioning democracies.

    Going on for 30 posts saying UK USA Canada ( Anglo) countries don't is just a reflection of how stupid you are.

    It is embarrassing Toby, you know you live in a failing state run by a hysterical, bi-polar dictator that is about to get overthrown, just admit it and move on stop wasting everyone's time.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    We pay really high taxes to import tobacco and alcohol into Canada even the gas tax is more then 20% and nobody here seems to whines about Canada's taxes, why should we even care how much taxes other nations charge us????? People here should get a life.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Great Article:
    Many Latin American countries’ selective defense of democracy — raising hell when right-of-center leaders trample on democratic freedoms, but remaining silent when left-of-center leaders do it — has resulted in a steady erosion of democratic values.

    Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/30/2876575/region-shares-blame-for-paraguayan.html#storylink=cpy

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    Taxes are good, we pay them all the time in USA and Canada why do we side line south America and pest them for no good reason, We should fix our own country and stop murdering muslim women and children before we patronized them, thanks but no thank you all.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    What does the EU or USA produce anyway?

    When was the last time anyone here bought anything “made in the UK”, “Industria Española”, “Industrie française”, “made in USA”, “made in Italy”? Everything is made in China.

    They have lousy workers, too high wages, and overvalued currencies, no wonder their are being disindustrialized at the rate they are.

    I buy everything argentine anyway.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    79/

    Don't complain on taxes of Canada !

    Canadian consumers pay only 5 % VAT(value added tax)
    while here in Europe the consumers pay ~ 20-25 % of it.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    82. Do you think before you write? I know you like to feign a good education but come on what does the USA and EU produce? UM ER about 4 TRILLION combined worth of products other countries are buying YEARLY!
    How is your RG ipad working?
    retard

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    @84

    I don't have an Ipad. But I do know where they are made.

    Not in the USA.

    The discussion here is manufacturing. I bet that those 4 “trillion” a lot of it is merely “gdp” sales and not “gnp”. Many European and American companies post such figures which affect GDP, but not the actual GNP.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    Venezuela
    The reason they are not on here,
    1, they have no computer
    2, they have no internet,
    3, they are not allowed
    4, they have no interest in this blogg,
    5, they don’t like argie blogger,
    6, ive no idea.
    7, lol.

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Pirat-Hunter
    Once again, you like other indocronoughts, make false claims and statements about the west likking innocent people,
    They conveniently fail to prove it,
    [so prove it]
    As for taxes, if you don’t like paying taxes, then either,
    1, don’t pay any and refuse,
    2, leave the country, and find a country that has no tax.
    3, lol again .
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,, 82 Truth_Telling_Troll
    Again, you guys are so bloody clever, and brilliant, why we ever try to argue with the likes of you and think and the rest, ive no idea,
    Yep the European and the American and the British, produces absolute nothing,
    And Argentina produces everything, and replies on no one,
    Boy im surprised CFK aint rulings the whole world.
    [still]
    Thank god we don’t belive anything you say.

    .

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Pick pick pick
    No Apple no ipad...where is apple?
    No Chevrolet no car....where is GM?
    And profit on Finance?
    Medicine? There is basically no madicine inventied outside of the EU UK USA. Where do you think HIV, Cancer etc etc etc medicine comes from your country?
    Are you breathing carbon monoxide, you shouldn't use a garrafa in the house. If you are feeling tired just go lie down.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    @87

    Again, the point of this article is manufacturing tariffs, not where the headquaters of any company is. You must be a moron because the fact is that eventually you may have a bunch of companies making “trillions”, but all the economic infraestructure for those products will be outside the USA and Europe. That is why inequality in the USA is approaching Brazilian levels (and worse than Argentina at this point), and Europe's inequality has gone up by 1000% since the crisis began.

    I don't use any medicine, even when I have a headache I just close my eyes and breath exercise, then lie down for 30 minutes.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    I don't use any medicine

    Mmmmm
    Ive met your ancestors; they had a good cure for headache, didn’t they,
    Just cut of the head, and hey presto, no headache,
    I don't use any medicine]
    Is this just today, or all in the past, are you saying you have never used medicine, [ever]
    Or will you come back with the technical data,
    Pointing to the tiny small print at the bottom of the page.

    And lastly
    As you never use it
    Would you thus consider leaving your strange body to science .

    .

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    88. It is pretty hard to mfg anything unless it is invented first...right or am I missing something?
    If you don't understand how this works I am not sure how to begin.
    If I can make something in Argentina that I invent in the USA and pay 1/3, 1/4 or 1/10 of the money to assemble it, then sell it there so there is little to no shipping costs don't you think that is wise?

    Same goes for China or India or where ever my stupid little monkey.

    This is why when you block cheap imports you make your products less competitive, less reliable, let's go so far as shoddy and expensive.

    Why don't you think I can go out and buy an RG made car here, or computer, or or or or just name it. Your brilliant rulers have systematically destroyed your mfg base with poor monetary policy.

    I remember my RG chauffeur saying he bought, gosh knows what, but he kept saying made in oosa so I had to ask my partner what is oosa because the driver was so proud he could afford something made in oosa. Come to find it it is MADE IN USA. OOSA good gracious!

    BTW here so you don't look so dumb next time:
    http://www.businessinsider.com/usa-manufactured-products-exports-america-2012-3?op=1 that's U$ 2 T mfg goods

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    @90

    Let's just say the likelyhood of an “invention” is greater when you have nearl 10 times (USA) or 20 times the population (Europe), than us.

    Don't flatter yourselves, genious occurs randomly in the world's population.

    @89

    I'm serious I do not use any medicine. Of course being young I have that advantage, but to be honest I don't want to be treated when I get older with quack nostrums. I remember a long time ago reading a panphlet for an acne drug at a shopping center. It read like this:

    “Do you want glabrous skin? Take Vidpromea. It will give you natural, radiant glow*.”

    .

    .

    .

    *May cause temporary baldness, which may sometimes become permanent. It may trigger seizures and induce severe dehidration through convulsive vomiting. Do not take this medicine if you require to drink water on a daily basis as this may cause spontaneous combustion. People with confirmed history with this medicine have reported loss of hearing, profuse hair growth in the tongue, sudden aphasia, and burning in the eyes leading to blindness. In some rear cases people reported their limbs falling off spontaneously. Likelyhood of you dying is pretty darn good. Otherwise expect the your nose to fall off and to lose all sense of coordination. If you have any questions about these sid effects, contact a doctor of your trust“.

    ”Clear skin... it can be yours, with Vidpromea. Try us!”

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    well to be fair, its your body .

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    91. Ahh my stupid little monkey. So now you think innovation is dependent on the size of a country's population? I think there are quite a few smaller countries that would disagree with you. Sweden comes to mind, but that's just one example there are plenty.

    Weren't you saying a few weeks ago capitalization didn't work because your county's size was too medium?

    I think Argentina's best at playing the victim of why it will not and can not ever succeed. Blaming other's for your misery/plight is a sign of low intelligence.

    Yet again you prove to be an imbecile and brainwashed by a gov't education trying to keep the population lazy and dumb to keep themselves rich and in power.
    Tsk Tsk.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    You mean capitalism? I know big words are tricky.

    How is a demographic impairment tantamount to blaming others? Argentina's demography makes it a place were capitalism cannot work, simple as that. Capitalism in the 21st only cares about market scale, or punctilious ideological adherence. Countries like China, Brazil, India, Russia, Mexico, Indonesia can do literally whatever they want and still receive investment because the investors only see the demographic potential.

    Countries like Uruguay, Singapore, Panama, etc, cannot rely on demography but have a much easier time in promoting a nationwide climate that is amenable to capitalism. That is why microstates even smaller than these are such a favorite offshore spot.

    Argentina is too small to be attractive demographically, but simultaneously it is too big to impose a nationawide environment that capitalist want.

    Capitalism failed in Argentina because it is not based on principles (like mercantilism is), simple as that.

    And no one has ever disputed it even though I have presented and explicated the evidence at least three times.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @Reality check
    I am not a fan of Chevez at all, but Internet Access between Venezuela and the rest of the world is not restricted in the way it is in Iran and China.

    82 TTT
    “What does the EU or USA produce anyway?”
    The entire Aerolineas Argentinas fleet for a start....and about half of all manufactured goods.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Toby, you are wrong on so many levels. Maybe tomorrow I will explain in simple terms why Argentina has and will always fail but I will leave you with a couple things to think about tonight:
    Corruptions
    Lack of respect for Property rights
    No Innovation
    Laziness
    It has nothing to do with the size of the country or population size just look next door to Chile...idiot.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    Actually Chile is the perfect validation of my argument. They have for 30 YEARS followed the Chicago model imposed by Pinochet...

    And while they have improved from a very impovirished level, Chile has not demonstrated to have a significantly higher wealth than Argentina after 3 decades of the model. And lets remember Argentina went through the 2001 which lowered the wealth significantly.

    You would think by now Chile would be clear by 5000-10000k of Argentina in per capita.

    Jul 01st, 2012 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    TTT
    I though Chile might fall in to the “cannot rely on demography but have a much easier time in promoting a nationwide climate ” part of your argument.

    Regardless, Chile has made remarkable progress (Pinochet hasn’t imposed anything for 2 decades) and I hope it will continue. Education and diversification of the economy are key to keep going forward and, despite slow progress in these areas, I am optimistic we can continue to reduce poverty and increase GDP. But who knows, maybe the price of copper will crash and we will see we have just been fooling ourselves :(

    Jul 02nd, 2012 - 12:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Simon68

    97 Truth_Telling_Troll (#)

    Actually Chile's GDP per capita is slightly lower than ours, US$14.413 to US$17.516.

    The major error in your thesis is that Chile has only 17.4 million population we have 41.3 million and has a CONSTANT growth rate of between 4 and 5%, while we bounce about from 1.6% in 2001/02 to 9.5% in 2011 (INDEC figures!!!) but we cannot keep to a steady growth rate.

    Capitalism would work here if we had a sensible government that had the people's good as their North, but unfortunately what we get are a group of crooks lining their pockets at our expense!!!

    Jul 02nd, 2012 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    Simon,
    According to the IMF GDP per capita (PPP) is:
    Arg: ca $17.5
    Chile: ca. $17.2

    Whereas nominal GDP per capita is:
    Arg: ca $10.9
    Chile: ca. $14.2

    Jul 02nd, 2012 - 12:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Simon68

    100 Condorito (#)

    Thanks, viejo. I was doing a quick and dirty on Wiki!!!

    Jul 02nd, 2012 - 12:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    Condorito and Simon are making my point. Let's not quibble in the details, the fact is that according to all surveys and reports, Argentina and Chile have a VERY similar per capita.

    It is true, Chile used to have a much lower per capita and they cought up. I do recognize that.

    However, most of those gains came in the 90s, and since then they haven't really gone significantly up. And they “caught up” to Argentina by virtue of Argentina collapsing its per capita in 2001, from which it is STILL with room to recover.

    I'm not trying to troll here, this is real. Argentina, according to most here, doing everything wrong, and Chile doing everything right, are tied in per capita.

    Doesn't that indicate something is not delivering in Chile's model, in fact? I'm not opposed to their model, it seems to work have support and that is all that matter ultimately. I'm just pointing the glaringly obvious in the stats.

    Jul 02nd, 2012 - 01:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    Agreed, GDP is similar in each country.
    But it’s not true to say that most of Chile’s gains came in the 90s. As Simon points out Chile’s growth has been quite constant.
    I don’t think it is true to say that because Chile and Argentina have similar GDP that there is something wrong with the Chilean model. Chile makes very good use of its limited resources while Argentina makes poor use of its significant natural resources.

    In the last 20 years Chile has laid the solid foundations required to move out of the “developing” stage. The next step requires improvements in education and diversification of the economy (and some say reduced energy prices). If it is to happen, it won’t be fast.

    Jul 02nd, 2012 - 02:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    It's not about GDP, my fellow brothers, it's all about how we share our common resources. It's about producing locally and sustainable. We can't follow Europe and US lead in their detorioration of humanity and life.
    Sure they bring innovation, technology and mass production. But the cost is our earth. In their chase for more they totally ignore the impacts of their society of use and discard. The impact it has on earth, our values, our chilren, ourselves.
    Now we got all these fancy things, and in order to upkeep their standard of living, they will have to keep introducing new fancy things into the self-regulating, globalized world market.
    Now China, Brazil and India, a total population of some 2.5 billion people, lets say a third of the worlds population, wants the same deal as them. Who is going to upkeep that? 80% is upkeeping 20% as it is today.
    Don't shake your head, mathematics are simple, if any country is living above it's limits regarding its natural resources, some other nation or region is upkeeping the difference. If a whole region is living above its limits, a whole other region is paying the upkeep, as the difference must come from somewhere.
    Now, 33% of the worlds population wants the same as those 20% lucky ones (actually all 80% wants it, but nobody cares yet), and the self-regulating market decided to put them all in top 6 biggest markets, quite natural if you ask me, as the more population, the bigger the market...

    There are, as usual, two solutions to this problem.
    1, 20% say “fuck off, you get nothing”.
    A solution that would lead to armed conflict, as the market is out of their control and the only way to continue the farse would be to take the resources by force.
    2, 20% say “Fair enough, welcome to the club”
    A solution that is fair, but not sustainable. A tragic solution for life, humanity and our mother earth.

    As you can see, we need to introduce another unknown into the equation, the one about over-consumption.

    Jul 02nd, 2012 - 06:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Guzz/Toby/TTT I guess you have been studying Marxism quite a bit the last few months.
    It doesn't work, it only makes the Politocos rich and everyone else poor.

    Regarding Chile and Argentina, this discussion reminds me of the fable The tortoise and the hare.
    You can't run an economy/business/life on fits and starts. At this rate RGs are going to be back living like it is 1870 again with no heat, cooking with wood and using horses as transport.
    A SEVERE depression in on its way sooner than anyone imagines.

    Jul 02nd, 2012 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @75 Just so's you know, the last time Venezuela had a national election for its National Assembly, most of the anti-Chavez parties pulled out about 4 days ahead of election day. The election sent 167 deputies to the National Assembly. Of these 114 went to the Fifth Republic Movement with the remaining 53 going to smaller pro-Chavez parties. In that election 74.74% of the electorate abstained. Effectively, there is no “opposition” in Venezuela. In the 2006 Presidential election, 25.25% of the electorate abstained.

    @74 It's PSUV “now”. After the 2005 “election” the MVR voted to dissolve itself in favor of joining the proposed United Socialist Party of Venezuela, while Chávez requested that MVR-allied parties merge themselves into it as well. Essentially, creating a one-party state.

    Jul 02nd, 2012 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    Taxes are good we pay tabbaco and alcohol tax when we bring personal gifts into Canada why can't mercosur have their own taxes too, USA has laws for drugs and trades weapons with terrorists why couldn't mercosur write up their own laws, the british thefting resources from other nations, I am sure we can tax goods for being dumped in our markets.

    Jul 02nd, 2012 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Dave204

    hey pirat hunter, you know what the great thing about Canada is? It's not a prison, so do the rest of us a huge favour and piss off any time you like. Get your tax free booze and smokes somewhere else you scrounging refugee :)

    Jul 02nd, 2012 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    My point is that we all pay taxes in Canada, USA and I am sure EU wich doesn't accept GMO, wich means that if they can pick and choose, if drugs are bad and weapons is good, or ever war in Libya , Iraq or Afghanistan, what is wrong with taxes , tariff or whatever convenient name you give it?? In any case who cares if a nation has taxes or tariffs as you said, stay out if you don't like it, simple why be stupid. Unfortunately we can't dictate to other democracies what to do, specially another country.

    Jul 03rd, 2012 - 12:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Dave204

    why keep mentioning Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan? Two different governing parties supported Afghanistan, the opposition was more or less behind Libya, and we weren't in Iraq. This has nothing to do with the issue being discussed. Also, if you're such a rabid anti west south american patriot, why are you hiding in Canada?

    Jul 03rd, 2012 - 01:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Guzz

    Canada is a great nation. In fact, should Canadians father every US born child for two generations, 70% the worlds problem would be gone...

    Jul 03rd, 2012 - 05:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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