MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentines main concern insecurity, but also greater satisfaction with democracy
The main concern of Argentines is insecurity, followed at a distance by poverty according to a public opinion poll released this week in Buenos Aires, which also revealed that one out of three interviewed had been victims of some kind of criminal activity. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesQuite rightly the 'Malvinas Question' does not come up at all.
Jul 19th, 2012 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It must be very frightening for women and old people to have to deal with the cowardly thugs without support from The Mad Bitch Of Argentina.
such comments as “mad bitch ect”add nothing to a reasoned discussion!
Jul 19th, 2012 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I suppose Moyano's view on the Falklands is no different from other Argentines views, but if he were to gain power, perhaps he might concentrate on solving Argentina's problems rather than creating fictional fairy stories concerning the Falklands.
Jul 20th, 2012 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Pete Bog
Jul 20th, 2012 - 05:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0I guess you are so wrong because he will make a huge economic mess and the “Malvinas cause” will pop up and you will have 50k soldiers knocking your door like in Galtieri times. Be careful with what you wish maybe it comes true.
4 D0nnyBerger (#) How big is the Argentine army?
Jul 20th, 2012 - 07:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0@toxictaxitrader
Jul 20th, 2012 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0More than 130k last time checked
27.470 Navy + 90.000 reservist
21.560 Air force (N/D)
81.233 Land Troops + 110.000 reservist
Total active personnel 130.263
Any other question?
5 toxictaxitrader
Jul 20th, 2012 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0The more relevent question about the military of Argentina is how good is it and how is it equipped.
Answers: not very and poorly.
The budget is lamentable and the equipment from old full-auto SLRs (which are useless if you want to hit anything) to Thyssen 1700R subs (most of them out of the water) to 30 YO Type 38 Cruise Missiles which have NEVER been test fired or upadated since 1982) Mirage 3s & 5s in very low numbers because the rest have fallen out of the sky with time expired airframes breaking up in flight and killing the pilots and old British Navy vessels, is very patchy to say the least.
They were developing a mid-range missile but it has not met with much success (good job anyway as, if it were fired at the Falklands, that would be the end of most cities of Argentina - we could legitimately blatter the crap out of the place).
I suspect the declared 130K personnel have a lot of the brass and hangers on making up the figure, the reservists would probably not materialise in any great numbers if they knew it was a shooting war.
A reasonable force however for suppressing internal rebellion and at least it will be one bunch of pansies against a bunch of cowards. Take your pick which is which.
Hope that helps. :o)
@4 When's your next appointment with the psycho?
Jul 20th, 2012 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0@6 Must have been cost-cutting. As of 2012, the Army was 110,000. And the air force was 14,600. Other figures unreliable. But then it is argieland. The navy has a new weapon system - water skis!
@7 - ChrisR
Jul 20th, 2012 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0You have to remember that Dany is a military genius. I mean he did win a game of Risk once. ;0)
Dany has no concept of logistics, he believes it's just a matter of saying to the troops here's the target, now attack.
Moving 50,000 men, plus equipment, takes time and British Intelligence will have gotten wind of the preparations and have time to reinforce the British Garrison on the Falklands.
The Argies don't have the airframes to fly troops in, their ships are old, and would have to travel 300 miles or more through Hunter-Killer patrolled waters, have to also face the most advanced Destroyer in the world, plus the Combat Air Patrol. Then, assuming they made it through that, they would have to face very experienced land troops who have the latest weapons systems.
If they then gained a foothold, they would have to resupply these troops through this gauntlet, whilst all the time more British assets would be arriving.
In 1982 the Argies couldn't resupply their troops when they had full control of the islands, let alone having to resupply through enemy lines, so I think the Falklands would be pretty safe.
It's nice to know, though, that Dany believes the Argies require odds of 50-1 to beat the British. I mean the French only had odds of 10-1 at Agincourt and didn't fare too well.
Meanwhile this story shows that the average Argentine citizen has more pressing concerns that they want their government to address, than the Falklands. I mean it's been 180 years so what's the rush?
9 LEPRecon
Jul 20th, 2012 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DunniBurger aka Mr. Blobby has also fired an SLR on full auto!
I have never done that, preferring single shot accuracy. I CAN actually hit what I am aiming at.
Interesting about Agincourt. The example par excellence of over-egging your forces (all Knights in armour of course on massive horses) only to have them all killed by an English commoner who practiced regulary with his longbow - on foot, not forgetting the 6 inch bodkin tip that pierced the breastplates through to the heart / lungs. Oh joy!
Bit like the Argies, really. All puffed up over their army only to have them chucked off the Islands by a superior one of much smaller numbers.
You only have to ask yourself one question: would I like to face Three Para or 42 Commando? And that's the question we all know the answer to, don't we?
@9 Don't you mean that Dany is a military genie? Poof!
Jul 20th, 2012 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree on logistics, but it's better than you suggest. Whatever transports they send, sink one and the rest run. Why, oh why, didn't HMS Conqueror sink more when the opportunity presented?
Let's be accurate. At the start of the 1982 invasions, the argies required odds of 825-1. There's “courage” for you.
Of course argies have more pressing concerns. “Insecurity” for one. There are more psychiatrists for the population in argieland than anywhere else in the world.
But I can make an on-the-spot diagnosis to help them. It's not “insecurity”. It's fear. Pure, abject cowardice. The argie disease.
The most frighting number for me in this survey was that 40% of those interviewed still believe that the freedom of speach is a goal yet to be achieved.
Jul 20th, 2012 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree that the major problem in Argentina is insecurity, but I'm disappointed that this survey didn't include a question on the Justice system.
Jul 20th, 2012 - 01:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I believe that one of the major causes of both insecurity and corruption (both financial and political) are due to the lack of an INDEPENDENT system of Justice in Argentina. Until judges can come to independent descicions on corruption cases, there will be no improvement in criminal cases. When the crooks see that the politicians get away with anything, they know that they can too.
I also agree with 12 EnginnerAbroad (#) that 40% believing that freedom of speech on Argentina is non existent is certainly horrific, to say the least.
@10
Jul 20th, 2012 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yup, kind up like some brainless morons that marched up some city streets in a battle much more recent than Agincourt, with their full Panoply of “world's greatest army”, all the pomp, the weapons, the training, and tactics, only to be humilitated into rat-retreat by illiterate civilians and women tossing burning lap oil from above. :)
14 Truth_Telling_Troll (#)
Jul 20th, 2012 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd love to know what “lap” oil is.
Hey if you are going to pick on typing typos, be my guest.
Jul 20th, 2012 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And funny thing is I always did think the Rio de la Plata invasion was a very minor incident. Turns out when I went to compare it with the battle of Agincourt (which I had never heard of before I admit, we don't really focus on the 100 year war), to the 2nd invasion of Buenos Aires in particular, the size of the battle is not that dissimilar.
So if Agincourt was such a great success (as was the repelling of the Armada), then given both battles had combatant numbers in the range of the Buenos Aires invasions, one could not objectively state it was a “footnote”, at least logistically.
@16
Jul 20th, 2012 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree logisticaly no it could not be considered a foot note. However, impact on the nation as a whole was much larger from Agincourt and especialy the Spanish Amada.
Funnily enought (and it does not justify the actions) the events of the battles of the Rio plate actualy showed the (then) Spanish citizens that they did not require the protection of the Spanish crown and that being a colony of Spain only exposed them and was one of the main causes of the May revolution. A revelution which was supported by the British crown (by trading openly with Monteviedo and BsAs) as a way of undermining Spanish dominance in the area at a time in which the British were at war with Napoleon and his allies.
@18
Jul 20th, 2012 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ah I see you are here. Read the “comments” above? Now you see why I came out swinging?
If they don't like cold fish slapped on their cheeks, don't dish it out!
#16
Jul 20th, 2012 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, I would have to agree with you on the battles of Buenos Aires.
Two nil to you.
However battles fought in 1807 do not really have much resonance in today's world - neither has Agincourt which the French lost rather than the English won.
Moving large amounts of troops across water to the Falklands is well out of any capability that the Argentine has at present.
Why would you wish to try ? The Argentine is totally secure from any invasion by UK forces. You have nothing we want and our forces are only there as a deterrent against any future military action instigated by your present or future government.
@18
Jul 20th, 2012 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I asusme you mean tot say @17, if not I appologise. I have read my comment aboce and have not dished any sort of insulting comments. My only comment has been to remark on a stat from the survey.
As an Argentine resident and tax payer I have the right to comments on how my taxes are spent and the government behavious. If others have insulted you I appoligise for their behaviour but please direct your anger to those who direct it to you. For me to question the country I live in is not isnulting.
19 Clyde15
Jul 20th, 2012 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am going to play by Argie Rules Of War.
So the two battles in BsAs WE WON!
:o)
@20
Jul 20th, 2012 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not you, don't play coy now.
Any human being feel insecure when crime increase. The argentinian citizens are suffering the consequences of bad economic times similar to the USA economy. Here in the USA drive by shooting, home invasion and robberies have increase since Obama become president. What is a good advise to protect themselves from crime: don't go alone during night time and try to do the groceries shopping every 2 weeks. Here in Arizona the law permits people to carry a gun for personal protection. This is a good advise.
Jul 20th, 2012 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interestingly the two battles of B.A.were at the same time as Ireland was subjugated ,a lot of Irish will not like me saying this but the British left us with a uncorrupted judiciary civil service ,good education service,and decent infrastructure .if you had lost you would have a Spanish/English speaking nation|(the top two world languages with0 gone the path of Australia,Canada.ect but with much more natural advantages. Just a thought!
Jul 20th, 2012 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@23
Jul 21st, 2012 - 12:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah, great job in that movie theater, or in the other half dozen mass shootings just in three days or so.
And no the problem is not the gun, is the society in which it occurs. I will repeat what I said before, there may be lots of “illegal” guns in Argentina but you don't see what happens in most of Latin America (in terms of cruelty and sheer numbers), or the USA. The guns are not responsible for something fundamentally wrong in those societies.
@24
Australia and Canada don't have natural advantages? They are twice our size for ffs? And we were richer than them, so Argentina proved you didn't need to be “formerly British” to do VERY well. The problem is not who the former suzerain was.
And btw, the British left the same supposed institution in Zimbabwe, India, Pakistan, Guinea, Belize, South Africa, Kenya, etc. I don't see them at any time recently being categorized as particularly sucessful places in terms of low corruption, or the so-called judiciary.
I don't understand your first comment I didn't mention USA because they were independent by then.however the British did leave them English common law ,you have a point with your list,but I think it is unfair to include India,the biggest democracy in the world and a coming super power
Jul 21st, 2012 - 07:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0My point is not to insult those countries, I don't do that.
Jul 22nd, 2012 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My point was more technical, if the institutions Britain leaves behind are infallible, then they should have worked in India immediately.
The bad economic times in the USA and Argentina makes people feel insecure suffering mental depression. The shooting in the movie theater in Colorado is again a fact that americans and argentinians are suffering mental depression and in need to receive medical care with proper anti-depressant pills. My nation the USA is suffering the consequences again of the mentally ill population. No ones cares for the US veterans suffering mental illness, the unemployed, the poor suffering hunger and students such as the one who committed such crime. I feel sorry for his parents. What a mess!
Jul 22nd, 2012 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 6 DanyBerger
Jul 22nd, 2012 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For one who has actually been there, it is good fun to see one who never hasn giving **numbers**.
What proportion of those 130.263 are battle hardened troops?
Britain has lots of those - which is what really counts in combat.
@St.John
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 03:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Britain has lots of those” what?
battle hardened troops
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 06:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0@St.John
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do you mean battle hardened troops like this? Ah!
British soldiers in Iraq beat the hell out of innocent kids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhOYpy0iIz8
#32
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0I apologise unreservedly for this. It was something they learned from the Argentine forces.
At least they were held to account for their actions.
Interesting to see that satisfaction with democracy has shot up during Cristina's time as President, not what you'd think from some of the haters who comment here! Still a lot for her to do though to bring moe equality, but lets put this in perspective; 60% think there is still not enough equality, yet the opposition call for LESS equality and oppose every egalitarian measure!
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#3 I think he'd be a complete disaster, incompetent, corrupt, authoritarian, and a neoliberal who would betray his working class base as soon as he got power. And then, as Dany said, he may do a Galtieri just to get back some popularity. My message to the Falklanders - better the angel you know =)
@34 Blind_Scottie_Kirchnerist
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you mean the 'The Mad Bitch' you already know?
And you must be out of your tree taking any notice of DunniBurger aka Mr. Blobby, the second biggest liar on these pages after 'I don't Think' aka The Turnip In Chief'.
Is unfair to call my argentine leader “The Mad Bitch”.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I repeat, the economy in both countries, the USA and Argentina makes people feel insecure and depressed.
President Obama like the argentine female president are not responsable for any tipe of crime found in Argentina or the shooting last week in Aurora, Colorado.
I don't think Mr. Danny Berger or Miss Think are liers. They have different views than the UK rubbish bloody citizens.
#34
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sussie thinks you are UK bloody rubbish citizen. Would you care to comment ?
@35 CrisR
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is the one using the offensive words of “the Mad Bitch”. ChrisRepulsive is the UK bloody rubbish citizen.
You like Conor Luden-Brown, Zhivago, Briton and Conqueror don't understand american english.
You should keep your mind in your UK.
@38
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Au contraire, baby! I think you can't resist me!”
As for American English, the term is an oxymoron.
As Churchill put it when he spoke to Congress: England and America are two countries separated by a common language (originated by George Bernard Shaw I believe) and how true is that!
Given your exemplarily manners to date, I am hurt and disappointed that you refer to me in that way.
BTW, the English version and indeed the American version of my shortened name is CHRIS.
@39
Jul 24th, 2012 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I repeat, the american english is much acceptable.
You should help your fellow british man “Engineer Lost” working in Salta, Argentina with his grammar. Or maybe C. Louden-Brown
Cooneen Fermanag, N.I.UK, 028 8569 46701 should call and help him with his english grammar.
Is dificult to accept he calls himself “engineer” ...I believe he has a fake degree like most of the brits working in my country Argentina.
40 SussieUS
Jul 24th, 2012 - 10:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well it might be IF you could speak it.
I have no idea what type of 'English' you are writing, looks like pidgin espanol/american english to me.
@ ChrisR
Jul 25th, 2012 - 06:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh! Come one Chris SussieUS is right.
The English of most poster here sucks and what is more fun is that you guys like to correct others over the matter.
“Well it might be IF you could speak it.”
This is like the expression from a cavern man.
How can we learn English here if you speak like Tarzan from the jungle?
From what countryside in England you come from?
#42
Jul 25th, 2012 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Minor points Dany - it should be cave man, not cavern man. There is a difference in meaning. A cave man is the expression used to describe a stone age man. A cavern man would not signify the same meaning which I presume you meant to convey.
The last sentence should be “ do you come from”
The wording “you come from” is what is used often in Western films when “Indian speak to white man”
From what I have seen of Sussie's posts, she speaks Latino American.
This is probably the English spoken by latino Americans in the S.W States but not, I think among Anglo Americans.
When I hear any US politician or business man being interviewed , I can understand what they say. There are sometimes Americanisms and differences in idioms that I have to think about but it is the same in every language.
Sussie seems to think that she speaks the only form of American English.
Her version seems to rely on a Spanish influence which would not apply in the Mid-west, the original states at the time of independence or any where there was a large “Anglo” population.
For example the expression “much acceptable”. This certainly would not be said in English. It really does not mean anything, It is something no educated English/American would say
I am not trying to offend non-English speakers for their lack of detailed knowledge of English, but only trying to point out that, at times, some of what they are trying to say is indecipherable.
What puzzles me is why some of the most vehement haters of all things British, bothered to try to learn English. Surely, in a language like Spanish, there are more than enough curses and swear words you could use to vent your spleen
@43
Jul 25th, 2012 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is obvious you have not reside in the USA. My american english is the same than the rest of the USA citizens. I don't have a spanish accent because I speak the american english. The USA citizens speaks with a four words sentence. Please, observe Obama, Hillary Clinton, or former US president George Bush talking and then respond me.
#44
Jul 25th, 2012 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Got it in one. My experience of the USA was passing through LA airport on my way to Fiji and New Zealand . I heard nothing but Spanish American accents the whole time I was there.
Are you telling me that Americans can only speak in a four word sentence ? It sounds like something out of Dr. Seuss.
I have listened to President Obama many times on the TV and was not aware he spoke in 4 word sentences. George Bush was a joke !
Even a 3 year old in the UK can do better than that.
For example, in the above posting you have made four errors which I have heard Spanish speaking Americans make.
“You have not reside” this should be“ not resided”
My American English is the same than - not than - should be “as”.
“ The USA citizens speaks” This should be “speak.”
“Respond me” should be “respond to me.”
This is what gives the impression that you have not learned American English as a native speaker.
As a self confessed lady who likes the more sophisticated side of life, if you entered East coast society then you would be looked down on for your speech as coming from the bottom rung of society.
Remember, you are the one who says everybody in the USA hates the bloody rubbish English accent. I have no idea other than guesswork what your accent is, but your American English is not universal throughout the USA.
Over to you.
@45
Jul 26th, 2012 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What you are saying some immigrants from Cuba, Mexico, India, Japan, China,etc. have difficulties learning to copy the american english accent and to learn the american english language.
Have you seen an asian able to imitate the american accent?
Have you seen an english citizen able to imitate the american accent?
Any british actor able to imitate the american accent?
As you can see, you are accepting the fact that the british and several other nationalities can not imitate the american accent.
I never said I am an american born. I keep repeating I am argentinian residing in the US that I know the american english language which is more acceptable than the bloody rubbish english accent.
#46
Jul 28th, 2012 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for you reasoned reply.
The accent is more difficult to learn than the grammar and syntax of a language. Mandarin Chinese is a language that depends on the pitch of the voice and sounds sing/song to Europeans/Americans. Conversely, an American finds it very difficult to imitate Chinese.. Japanese is spoken using sounds made from the back of the throat - again the Japanese find it difficult to speak with an American/English accent. They pronounce L as R.
Have I heard a British citizen imitate an American accent -yes.
It was good enough to fool a US citizen from Virginia but that was an exception - there would be no requirement for most people to do so.
Anyway, it would take a native speaker to vote on this one.
British actors ? Hugh Laurie seems to do passing well as he is one of the highest paid actors on American TV -playing an American doctor.
Judy Dench and Kate Winslet seem to be acceptable to the great American public.
Why would the Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings films be so popular in America if “their bloody rubbish accents” were so hated by ALL Americans ?
There is no universal “bloody rubbish English accent” in the UK.
There are dozens of variations and dialects, do you hate all of them for the only reason that you hate all things British and you attribute this hate to the sound of the speech. Remember, if it was not for the English language, you would not have your American language - it was ours first before the colonies ruined it !
I have read a lot of American literature from Steinbeck, Hemingway, Faulkner, Mark Twain and contemporary authors and am fairly well versed in their quality of writing. Their use of grammar is almost indistinguishable from UK writing.
I feel we can never agree on this. I would suggest that you get your hands on two books by the American author Bill Bryson.
The Mother Tongue and Made in America. These examine the history and evolution of the English language in the UK and America.
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