MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Brazil begins major military exercise to test security along its southern borders
Brazilian Armed Forces began this week a major deployment along the borders of Uruguay, Argentina, Paraguay and Bolivia involving 9.000 troops from the three services with the purpose of testing border security against smugglers mainly of arms and drugs and organized crime, said the Ministry of Defence. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesI thought that S.America were all chums together. Does Brasil feel threatened on its border with Argentina. ?
Aug 08th, 2012 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0@1 - well when the economic meltdown happens, CFK is liable to do anything including rehashing old border disputes.
Aug 08th, 2012 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0She knows she hasn't got a snowflakes chance in hell against the Falklands, but doing a quick 'landgrab' off one or more of her neighbours, it the interests of solidifying Argentine territorial integrity could be on the table.
Perhaps Uruguay should start excerising some of their troops by the Argentine border too.
Brasil's Defence Minister Amorim says that Operation Agata 5 is
Aug 08th, 2012 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0'targeted to combat criminal activities, organized gangs, drugs trafficking and illegal mining in the Amazon basin.'
It is to 'dissuade foreign threats, not from the region, where we have full cooperation from the different countries.'
So, it seems that - and he specifies - the 'Foreign Threats' are not Uruguay, Argentina, Paraguay and Bolivia ... but the 'Foreign Threats' that are there in the southern part of the Amazon Basin.
Perhaps the 'Foreign Threats' are the USA and China.
Or Chile.
Or Venezuela ;-)
(Or perhaps they are Exercising in order to dissuade the Falklands Island fisheries protection vessel from 'criminal activities, gang warfare, drugs trafficking and illegal mining' up the border rivers Parana, Paraguay, Pilcomayo and Uruguay ;-)
All in all, Amorim once more shows that he is a foolish speaker.
Are they SLRs or FNs or similar that those guys are carrying? FFS! Someone tell me they're a couple of generations newer than the ones we used in the 60s, 70s and 80s.
Aug 08th, 2012 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0They look like Belgian FNs which are fully automatic. The SLR is similar but is semi automatic i.e single shots.
Aug 08th, 2012 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0So brazil are holding exercises not with its neighbours but against,
Aug 08th, 2012 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0how interesting, a need to show force to its bestest enemies... sorry i meant buddies,
I feel the togetherness, I feel the LOVE!!!!
Has Hysterical Hector called the UN again to complain about “militarisation” of the “region of peace” yet? I thought not.
Aug 08th, 2012 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0F-5s.....I didn't think any miliatry was still using f-5s other than training. #3.....If the USA or China were their threat they were drilling for, I would suspect the excercise would be to lay down and roll over.
Aug 08th, 2012 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Best to be prepared when you have such snivelling backstabbers as neighbours.
Aug 08th, 2012 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Clyde15: This is just about drugs and crime in general along the borders. From times to times Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay perform a military exercise together.
Aug 08th, 2012 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@GeoffWard2: I don't think Venezuela or Chile are threats to Brazil. Brazil recently supported Venezuela's membership to Mercosul and Chile is pretty much peaceful.
China is a member of the BRIC just like Brazil which nowadays is a true block. As for US, they have a much more conciliator attitude toward Brazil than in the past.
You don't see Brazil involved in wars since WWII, that's the reason it doesn't have no real enemies.
Sorry, Fred, you failed to see the ;-)
Aug 08th, 2012 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am aware.
Amorim is having to conjure-up 'external enemies' to validate a military programme on its borders whilst, at the same time, not threatening the governments of its southern neighbours.
It is calculated, batty-Bolivarian disingenuousness.
Most countries attempt to address 'criminal activities, organized gangs, drugs trafficking and illegal mining' at their borders - arguably because it is politically 'easy'.
But the infinitely more effective programmes would be to address these problems at critical locations, normally well within the neighbouring country.
It is politically extremely difficult to move 'forces' across borders to effectively address these problems (as we see in Columbia/Venezuela).
Uruguay in the firing line by the looks of it?
Aug 08th, 2012 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But perhaps it is just sabre-rattling, just like our southern friends are very fond of doing.
As long as that it all it is, who cares?
#1 More likely by Paraguay, after all non-democatic states are less peaceful!
Aug 08th, 2012 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We think, what she is saying, to her greatest friend,
Aug 08th, 2012 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is this?
Its better I have it, and do not need to use it,
Rather than I don’t have it,
And CFK just happens to turn on them.
Just a warning between friends.
.
#13 Really!?!? Lugo got impeached, as permitted by the constitution. After the dictatorship in Paraguay ended, the constitution was written up to prevent any future dictatorships from being installed, thus the Senate was given more power over the Executive branch. Partly based on the British system that allows the Parlament to change the Prime Minister as see fit. You and everyone else knows that Lugo was getting setup to become another dictator, just like CFK, HUGO, EVO, Correa.
Aug 09th, 2012 - 02:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's possible that populations of the nations on the southern borders of Brasil are migrating to Brasil in their thousands and that Brasil - irrespective of their Agreement to allow such migration for a 'better life' - wish to set up more effective border controls.
Aug 09th, 2012 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's a good job that Brasil is so big that it can live with high influxes.
I remember that a certain Guatemalan leader, having failed to invade successfully and take over Belize (defended by the British), announced to his people “ there are more ways to take a country .....”.
The encouraged mass migration ('Refugees') of the Guatemalan population, its influx to the Belizean highlands, and higher subsequent breeding rates (highest birth rates in the Western world) is making Belize more a de facto extension of Guatamala than an independent country (ex-British colony, one time British Honduras, renamed Belize).
@11 GeoffWard2: I'm not sure if you can call Amorim's policy a “batty-Bolivarian disingenuousness”. If I understood well what you're saying he's doing (using an excuse for reinforcing its defenses) I guess almost half of Western has done it in the past. It's not something specifically bolivarian.
Aug 09th, 2012 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@16 GeoffWard2: Geoff, I shall respectfully ask you. You don't live in Brazil, do you? HDI in Brazil (0.718) is lower than in Argentina (0.797), Chile (0.805), Uruguay (0.783) except for Paraguay (0.665). You don't see many of these nationalities in any city of Brazil. Except for Argentinians tourists in the summer.
Usually illegal immigrants come from Bolivia (0.663) and Peru (0.725), this last one I don't why the come but they come in a lower rate than Bolivians. Among the neighbors of Brazil only these two nationalities are commonly illegal immigrants and because they come from the Andeans Mountains they are called “Andinos” just like Mexican and many other nationalities of immigrants are called “latinos” in US.
As for this “agreement”, I never heard about it. Argentinians, Uruguayans, Paraguayans and now Venezuelans can visit Brazil without any visa because they are full members of Mercosul but that doesn't mean they can legally live or work here. They need a permanent visa or work visa before and because of bureaucracy it's pretty much complicated and takes a long time.
#16 As long as Belize stops being a tax haven I don't mind if it stays independent or joins Guatemala, by self determination in you're scenario. Though that scenario, if true at all, is pretty specific, and I'm sure you wouldn't want to generalise it as some might do, factually incorrectly, on the hot potato topic of immigration
Aug 09th, 2012 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Clearly, no one here understand a bit of military equipment.
Aug 09th, 2012 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- First, this rifle is an FN FAL, however is very modified, it uses a rotating bolt as the m16 and have selective fire, single, burst and full auto.
-Second, the brazilians f5 are modernized with the state-of-art avionics avaiable , as comparitive, on the last Red Flag edition, we were able to put down the Americans f-18 1/2 of the times. Just research.
As for our defense minister, he is a very reasonable person, you can trust me in that, i had a few classes of international relations with him, last year, before he took charge, in my university. I can't see any real and clear threat for Brazil in the next few years, however, after that is quite possible that wars for natural resources start happening. Unfortunately, as many of you said, bolivarianism is not our enemy, for now, until Aécio Neves take charge in the presidency. So the objective is just to integrate the three forces more and to patrol our porous borders.
#19
Aug 09th, 2012 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can you give me the reference to the Brazilian success against the US in Red Flag using the F-5 against the F-18 I tried to find it on Google but it did not come up - or else I missed it.
Clyde
Aug 10th, 2012 - 02:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0My bad, it was in the 2008 edition, and the planes were no f-18 . There were only f-16 and f-15 silent eagle. Although , the f-15 is pretty much similar to the f-18.
#21
Aug 10th, 2012 - 09:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for the reply. I actually knew the answer which was rather cheeky of me but I wanted to test your knowledge. You passed with flying colours.
I have been following all the Red Flags and Maple Flags since they started
The F-5 was a better machine than it was given credit for and in the right hands was a dangerous adversary.
I had the privilege of being shown round its prototype successor, the F-20
when it flew into Prestwick airport on it's way to the Farnborough airshow. The pilot ,Darrell Cornell, who had also flown the F-16, rated it a better aircraft in climb and maneuverability. He was tragically killed in a demonstration of the aircraft when he lost control after pulling sustained 9g and blacked out. His successor met the same fate with g-lock. This drew attention to the Air Forces that the new generation of aircraft posed serious problems for the human frame.
Politics in the USA were pushing the F-16 for foreign sales and foreign air forces would not buy an aircraft that was not in USAF service.
This led to the cancellation of a fine aircraft as without govt. support it could not survive.
Clyde, i was wrong again, it was the strike eagle, not the silent one.
Aug 10th, 2012 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However, the f-5 is a great aircraft indeed, but is no match for a long-run conflict anymore, nor is able to receive any new upgrade. Their “ mid-life ” ( don't know how to say that in english) is closing to the deadline. Thus if our government doesn't acquire a new model until 2014, we will be living a dangerous gap. Unfortunately our culture is impregnated with the notion that military expenditure is not necessary as we are a “peaceful” nation erasing whatsoever technologic advent which come with it. This doesn't make sense as one of our biggest exporter is EMBRAER, a civil and militar aircraft manufacturer. I hope that the party in power doesn't stay long enough to make us drown in another lost decade. Sorry for my english. Greetings.
Geoff, Before commenting on subjects you know very little about, why not take the time to study the subject. It is none of these countries you mentioned that are the threat it is Drug traffickers and terrorists organizations that are the problem, Read this...
Aug 10th, 2012 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/pdf-files/TerrOrgCrime_TBA.pdf
#23
Aug 10th, 2012 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's OK, I understood it to be the F-15E as the “Silent Eagle ” was not around in 2008.
Although the F-5 was a good aircraft, it is outclassed by modern fighters. Brazil needs a modern aircraft for its airforce.
The F-18E, Rafale or Typhoon would meet its long term needs.
I had no idea that Brazil had an aircraft industry until I saw an Embraer Bandeirante at my local airport in 1980. Of course, they moved up into a bigger league with the Tucano. I was impressed with it when I saw it at the Farnborough airshow. Then it became the “ab initio ”trainer with the RAF. I see them frequently as the trainee pilots fly to Prestwick airport on their navigation exercises.
Your English is fine. I had a holiday in Portugal and the only thing I could say was obrigado !
Apart for a passion for aircraft, I love bird watching. In the Clyde estuary just now, we have a bird called the Manx Shearwater - puffinus puffinus which breeds off the west coast of Scotland in thousands.
In Autumn they journey into the south Atlantic and end up off Rio de Janeiro in February - just in time for Carnival. I often wish I could join them !!
Best wishes to you
I expect for the best, but our government surpass every prediction of imcompetence. The bandeirante was the first model Embraer produced. There are still a lot of them flying in “air taxis” companies.
Aug 10th, 2012 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well i think that “obrigado” and “por favor” are the first and more important words that you should learn in portuguese, you are doing well so, hahaha. You also should come to Rio once, but not in the carnival, too much mess! Come in the winter, or the end of the year, you will sure enjoy!
Best wishes for you too!
wangito (#24)
Aug 11th, 2012 - 08:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for the link which focussed on Muslims in the Mercosur countries.
I was totally unaware that the whole area and the three countries as a whole were riven with Islamic terrorists undertaking Jehad on behalf of the Prophet Mohammed. The USA Report (Revision 2010) seems to indicate that this is the main threat in the region. I doubt this, it smacks of US Muslim paranoia, however ..
”Islamic terrorist groups with a presence in the TBA reportedly include Egypt’s Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group) and Al-Jihad (Islamic Jihad), al Qaeda, Hamas, Hizballah, and al-Muqawamah (the Resistance; also spelled al-Moqawama), which is a pro-Iran wing of the Lebanon-based Hizballah. Islamic terrorist groups have used the TBA for fund-raising, drug trafficking, money laundering, plotting, and other activities in support of their organizations.”
I am much less familiar with the Tri-Border Area of drugs and terrorism than I am with Northern Brasil, where I made my home, but I have read many of the relevant Wikileaks from the three USA embassies to the CIA and Washington.
In Salvador the sight of the end-user on the streets and occasionally being rounded up by the MP/police is the most we ever see of the drugs - not being users ourselves - but the crime rate has exploded as the pressure on the Rio favelas has imbalanced a fairly stable drug power structure. The waves of these incursions of gangs into the provinces are there in the crime 'stats' in the local papers, etc. And, since the drug money has come to town, it is a mistake to attribute all the huge coastal mansions just to corrupt politicians.
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