MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina will have to post 10m plus bond in Ghana to liberate ARA ‘Libertad’
Argentina will have to come up with 10 million dollars or more as a bond to liberate the flagship of its navy, “Libertad” retained in the Ghanaian port of Tema, following on the request from a US hedge fund. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThat's cheap. They should have to pay what they owe.
Oct 04th, 2012 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Among G-20 countries, “Argentina accounts for 84% of pending cases at ICSID. It has consistently disregarded the rule of law”.
Oct 04th, 2012 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0OUCH and they've nicked you're ship, crikey things aren't looking good, I'll buy it just to piss you off, loads of fire wood.
Oh joy!
Oct 04th, 2012 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0At last AG has come against an honest country that is quite prepared to enforce a legal document unlike her friends in LatAm, including I have to say with dismay, Uruguay.
BUT, I advise caution here. Will the bond be an AG piece of toilet paper with fancy printing to fool the 'natives' as I'm sure TMBOA will be referring to Ghana.
OR will it be something worth having, such as a USD10M escrow account made in favour of Ghana to pass on to NML Capital Limited when the 'negotiation' by the AG spin-doctors goes tits up and they lose the case?
BRILLIANT, round 2 in progress, can't wait for round 3.
Expropriation is funny
Oct 04th, 2012 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do see the funny side of this. i.e. RG has a government that defends the theft of property (Repsol) now finds itself having its property stolen. The other amusing angle is that CFK has tried so hard to make SAm ports a no go for British ships and here, as if by magic, a ship, no less than the iconic navy training ship, is detained.
Oct 04th, 2012 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You reap what you sow, karma, call it what you will, poetic justice, has taken place.
...but Mr Singer sought to make a fortune buying risky investments. In business you lose sometimes. He lost. Countries, like businesses and people need to be able to default or go bankrupt.
Whatever the rights and wrongs this must be deeply humiliating for the Argie. If they pulled a stunt like this with our navy training ship, Mr Singer would have to sleep with one eye open and check under his car. Come on Argies, where are your cojones! Time to recover some national pride.
The last time I recall somebody trying a stunt like this was the chinese with HMS Amethyst.
Oct 04th, 2012 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So why didn't the RGs on Libertad fight their way out of Accra to preserve their honour?
RG Nayvee.... weak as piss and half as salty.
and what happens at the next port on down the line?? I think Libertad better be recalled to Argentina if they want to keep the ship.
Oct 04th, 2012 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Only $99,990,000,000 to go!
Oct 04th, 2012 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0this story just gets funnier and funnier
Oct 04th, 2012 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 5 Condorito w/broken wings....
Oct 04th, 2012 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Buying the “argentine debt”....is that only what Paul Singer can afford?
....he should try to buy the USA 15 trillon dollars National Debt ....if he really has good cojones....jejeje
The Government described the detention of the vessel of “sneak attack of vulture funds against Argentina.” These nutjobs are hilarious.
Oct 04th, 2012 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess it is like having your car repossessed, you go outside and it is gone and you wonder why?
Idiots.
Bad for CFK/Arg is that it will happen again and again until the debts are resolved
hahahaha
@7 Yep, only option is to go direct to rgland.... do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Oct 04th, 2012 - 10:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I believe she is one of the ships they are planning to convert to nuclear propulsion.....
Hahaha......Argentinas reich regime.......you couldnt make this sh1t up.
Oct 04th, 2012 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.a different day, another calamity........ 84% holy crap, so funny........international recognition as a law breaker, im goin to miss argentina when it finally breaks up into smaller pieces of s**t, province power!!!!
Its all good!
I understand that just recently, TMBOA was unable to use her Government jet to fly to the UN meeting, because it was going to be impounded at the airport for non-payment of other court ordered debts.
Oct 04th, 2012 - 11:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0At this rate, anything Argentine that gets exported will be impounded the moment it arrives in a foreign port, making it impossible for Argentina to trade without settling their debts first.
The only countries that want to trade with Argentina are those so desperate that they cannot trade with others because they are under UN sanctions already. Even so, It's doubtful that those countries would pay their debts.
So the world's biggest debt-defaulter would end up being screwed over by their debtors!
Hilarious..... you really could not make this up...
LOL!
Oct 04th, 2012 - 11:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Them Argetards gonna be FURIOUUUUS
Just imagine if TMBOA had actually taken her presidential jet to the United Nations meeting and it had been impounded at the airport.......
Oct 05th, 2012 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0She would have been forced to stand at the side of the road with her thumb out, hitching a ride back to Buenos Aires.......
Either that or she would have been mistaken for some mad prostitute like Aileen Wuornos.......
Good job that the UN meeting wasn't held near to Thanksgiving, because with a turkey neck like hers, she would have been strangled, stuffed and carved up......
Do you think the gendarmes are scared of going back to work because they'll get yelled at about the ship?
Oct 05th, 2012 - 12:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is SO freaking funny! I heard the ship is going to be re-christened as the ARA REPSOL!!
Oct 05th, 2012 - 01:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The Paul E. Singer Family Foundation.[2] According to The Guardian, ”Elliott's principal investment strategy is buying distressed debt cheaply and selling it at a profit or suing for full payment.“ Singer is a major donor to the Republican Party.[3]
Oct 05th, 2012 - 02:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Singer has been active in Republican Party politics and was a major contributor to George W. Bush's presidential campaigns
In 2002 and 2003 a British Court awarded Elliott more than $100 million for these debts”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Singer_(businessman)
That took the wind out of turkey neck's sails ... X marks the spot, shiver me timbers.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 03:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0And marcos what is your point? He is a debt collector, its obviously a practise engaged in all over the world, he is just a bigger cat than the one who comes to reposses your house!
Oct 05th, 2012 - 05:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sussie, what is your point? U continue to talk about the USA as if its a parallel to RGland! It doesnt matter what is happening in the USA as the article is about ure toy ship being impounded!
Both ure posts are continually pointless, are you children trying to grown up or has the special ward allowed u access to computers??
Paul Singer, what a shame for Jewish people! For people like you we have bad reputation.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 05:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0What kind of scum steals a ship? I mean, normal countries steal Energy companies, attempt to steal islands, steal land from indigenous tribes, but not ships, that's just uncivilised!!
Oct 05th, 2012 - 05:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0' he is just a bigger cat than the one who comes to reposses your house!'
Oct 05th, 2012 - 05:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Isn't that how the Kirchners made their first---almost legal--million or two?
At 22
Oct 05th, 2012 - 05:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0??????? What?????? RG have a bad reputation because they take and do not honour the debt..... RG gov problem! By being jewish he is in no way tarnishing the jewish community! How? Come on!!!! He is doing a job and doung very well! He isnt killing people, he isnt stealing the vessel, he is a debt collector and Doing it through legal channels (apologise if legal is a word that u may not understand), so pay ure debts and then all will be well!
LOL No silly, Im jewish also. was not talking about my argentinity!!! hahaha.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 06:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0When my grandparents escaped from Europe people like him was trying to take advantage of the situation, for sure!
@26 - GastonBaires
Oct 05th, 2012 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really? You know for sure that Paul Singer's family also didn't escape from Europe?
Yet you are Argentine. A country who welcomed with open arms the Nazi war criminals, taking payment using gold and silver stolen from the murdered millions, most of whom were Jews.
Pot, this is kettle, send colour status over!
Paul Singer, regardless of his nationality or religion, is doing a job. He's, for want of a better word, a bailiff. Someone whose job it is to seek out debt defaulters, and try a reclaim some if not all of the debt back.
If Argentina had payed off its debts it wouldn't be in this situation.
Trying to bring religion and the events that happened in the 1930's and 1940's into the argument is pointless and irrelevant. What happened many years before he was born is not the fault of Paul Singer, even assuming that his family had been up to no good in that period. The child cannot be blamed for the sins of the father.
So perhaps you should cough up the cash, get your ship back, and have a really good look at why these things are happening. They are happening because your country owes millions (if not billions) of dollars, to many different people around the world.
Your government defaulted. Your next government refused to accept the debt, and buried their heads in the sand. As did the government after that, your current government. All the time the interest on your debts is increasing.
Argentina has the resources to pay back all these debts, and have huge amounts of money left to improve the lives of the ordinary Argentine citizen. The problem is that your government is so corrupt, that no one is willing to invest.
It's a catch 22 situation, brought about by the mismanagement and untrustworthyness of your government. No one will invest in your country until you have paid off your debts. You can't pay off your debts unless someone invests in your country.
All your own fault. Start facing your problems instead of blaming others.
@6 Frank
Oct 05th, 2012 - 09:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0I can almost imagine that as soon as they come ashore they'd have to raise the Argentine flag, and having done that then I'm sure that they'd be trying to claim that Accra is the long-lost 57th province of Argentina and it needs to be referred to the UN so that they can reclaim it.
Not to mention that Ghana Army isn't really on a par with Argentina, they've got a good (and well deserved) reputation for being fair, impartial and tough.
HMS Amethyst was a bit of a foul-up all round. Having had permission to sail up the river, I don't think anyone had expected the government on the banks to have changed before they wanted to sail back down the river again...
Post 27 is absolutely correct.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has lived in denial concerning your debts for decades. It is this problem which will eventually bring the corrupt regime of TMBOA down.
A country cannot continue building debt upon debt, because eventually a time will come when no-one wants to trade with you any more. Major oil producers will demand hard cash up front before they will send supplies. Equipment will breakdown and spares will not be supplied. Argentina will cease to function as a proper nation because they are unable to get the vital supplies needed to operate.
When food cannot be trucked into the cities, because there's a lack of clean diesel for the trucks, or when the electrical grid (or water supply) breaks down because they lack parts for power distribution, then the people in the cities will riot and TMBOA wont be able to stop them. Mind you, she will probably have left long before then in her private jet stuffed full of all the dollars that were taken from the Argentine public.
This problem is deep-seated in every Argentine. Argentina has become a 'nation of thieves'. First they stole the property belonging to Spain, then they tried to steal land from other countries formed out of the vice-royalty. Then they tried to steal land from Britain.
It has become engrained in the Argentine mind that you can steal whatever you can get away with.
If you cannot steal it, then you make promises to pay for it and then forget about these promises - which is basically the same as stealing!
No wonder that nations are now refusing to trade with Argentina until they address this immoral behaviour.
The biggest thief of all sits in the Casa Rosada and steals from her own people, becoming a super-rich despot able to afford all manner of things that her people cannot afford (including Botox and poor plastic surgery!) until they rebel and then she flies away to her Caribbean hideaway.
A nation of thieves - and they have the temerity to call us Pirates!
Come on TIT.... Look forward to your linguistically beautiful and scientifically elequent response to the last few comments!
Oct 05th, 2012 - 09:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0This ship is the flagship of your Navy , and it is being held , with the crew , in some squalid W African port and the Argentine people do nothing .
Oct 05th, 2012 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0U$S10M is ARG $45M ( official ) or ARG$65M ( blue ).
That equates to between ARG 1 peso to 1.5 pesos per person .
Christ on a bike , you could raise that in a street collection by this lunchtime and have the boys and girls back by next week.
Otherwise the Falkland Islanders are going to buy it and re-name it HMS Revenge and display it as a trophy in Stanley to taunt you .
Now , where did I put the pop corn ?
Perhaps Argentina should offer the Falkalnds to its creditors like they did when they trying to clear the Barings Bank Loan in 1838!
Oct 05th, 2012 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Camporistas are always telling us there is strong LATAM solidarity .
Oct 05th, 2012 - 10:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0In that case , Argentina simply need to borrow Brazil's carrier the Sao Paulo and sail over to W Africa and kick some Ghanean ass .
Oh , the Brazilian defence ministry are not answering the 'phone ?
Surprise , surprise ....
hry folks, can we please stop with the “ARgtards” and similar comments... it doesnt make you look big, clever or anything other than juvenille and xenophobic.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please leave that to the Argentine Government, by the looks of the news the Argentine PEOPLE are just a sick and tired of their latest Dictator as the rest of the world.
No need to cast sweeping abuse @ them.
------------
TMBOA = ?
29. You are absolutely correct. The corruption and lack of fair dealing is ingrained into an Rgs bones. As long as I lived there I never met one that wanted to deal fairly with me on my business transactions, from notaries to buyers or sellers. Everyone was always trying to do something slick to try to get one over on me. The only thing they understand is POWER.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0They are strong with the weak and weak with the strong.
It is too bad gun boat diplomacy has been lost to history,
It may be time to bring it back again.
A nice Destroyer in the middle of Rio de la Plata might get them interested in paying their debts a bit more quickly.
But crushing them economically works too it just takes so long and the outcome is a bit unpredictable.
I guess in Argentina's defence they have helped de-militarise the South Atlanticthanks to Ghana.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0A few less beligerent noises to the Falklands now their FLAGSHIP is impounded?
CFK: Damn! My last throw of the dice before my presidency expires is to invade Islas Falklands. How can we do this now the flagship is impounded?
Chief of RG Navy: Let our glorious FAA kick off by launching waves of Pampa's at the INNNggklleeeesshhh
Putrid Jelly: Advance to victory! We can at last eject the Pirates!
@31 Usurping Pirate
Oct 05th, 2012 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure CFK will do something to get the ship back but if she does nothing other than screech and jump up and down whilst pouting to try and get it back for free, a court ruling could be passed in that time to allow the ship to be auctioned to pay a tiny fraction of the debt owed.
I wonder if the head of the FI budget is putting some cash aside and watching the international maritime auction houses, just in case?
What happens if they don't pay up? Does it get auctioned off?
Oct 05th, 2012 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 034 Anbar
Oct 05th, 2012 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0TMBOA = The-Mad-Bitch-Of-Argentina © ChrisR, aka Cristina Fernandez, your illustrious severely Bi-Polar President.
I have never, nor will I ever, nor do I condone or support the term ARgtards.
CFK will pay the 10MM bond it is too embarrassing to have the ship seized and auctioned. I imagine after this trip they'll go home, problem is I don't think they could sail directly home without stopping in another port. Will this happen again in the next port? I wonder....
Oct 05th, 2012 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think the majority of non-Argentine and some Argentine posters here criticise the government and aspects of the culture, not Argentines per se. However, particularly young Argentines are nationalist to their core and take any criticism personally. It is the curse of nationalism, criticise any aspect of the government and you are criticising every Argentine. It allows the government to operate without scrutiny. Clever brainwashing and a cornerstone of Peronism.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why couldn't it sail straight home without docking in another port? It's not far to Brazil and they won't impound it. It's not like it will need a fuel stop - assuming the crew actually know how to sail her.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Elaine : Add to that the cult of personality in Argentine politics , and you have the perfect ingredients for ready made dictatorship .
Oct 05th, 2012 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't get these argie types, Clarin says “ATFA, the group that is pressuring through lobby efforts in the Congress in the name of the vulture funds, has contributed enormously toward creating an “anti-Argentina” climate not only at the domestic level, but also internationally, including in London.”
Oct 05th, 2012 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What the heck has London to do with this? Are they convinced that everything that goes wrong is somehow some britishers fault? Get a life.
For this and many other reasons I as an Argentine support a nuclear defense program, if this was USA or Britain they would have declared war already. This shows that For jews in Ghana being mad about Argentina meeting with Iran wasn't enough.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0PiratHunter : It wasn't the jews in Ghana , it was the lizards in the spaceship , you know the ones that take human form and are members of a powerful masonic lodge that used to include the pope's and Massera .
Oct 05th, 2012 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0JesusH Christ , TMBOA said “we don't live in disneyland” but you do !
@44 Another cornerstone of Peronism. You need to create a common enemy to unite a disparate population. When Peron took power the British (they like to call them English) were the most successful of the immigrant population and held most of the wealth. Keep in mind that all the immigrants started with nothing - a level playing field. This invented 'enemy' has been perpetuated for decades.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In every other South American country there is a certain resentment towards the Spanish conquistadors and the fact that Spanish companies still own a great deal in SoAm. Argentina alone likes to blame everything on the English.
This even made news in a MAJOR NEW YORK CITY newspaper.......millions of people are going to laugh at the “RIDICULA” Kretina:
Oct 05th, 2012 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/high_eize_yO4PzlS9lcFrl4biOuGzhP
the only thieves here are these miserable yankees!
Oct 05th, 2012 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyone else think this will start a precident, with creditors seizing vessels, planes etc, wherever they can around the world? It could open the flood gates so to speak, it would certainly curtail Argentines freedom of movement using their own transport assets.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 050. Yep, I can't figure out why they have not gone after Aerolinas Argentina jets yet. I bet they are trying to prove it's 100% owed by the gov't to the courts and that takes awhile.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They already have judgements/liens filed on all the DC properties that are not considered Embassy property so the eviction should be coming there shortly too.
You are all pathetic opining about Argentina, when your countries are not having a good moment.Buy your own life! PATETICOS
Oct 05th, 2012 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@34 I certainly understand what you're saying. I think when people use the term “Argtard” or something like that, I think they're generally referring to CFK and her little clown brigade and anybody who ardently supports her, her incessant claims on the Falklands, etc. Most Argentines are good, friendly people, but I think those derogatory remarks are for the “not so smart or friendly” Argentines. But, I definitely get what you're saying and maybe terms that aren't so offensive should be used.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0HA HA HA this is quite funny, yet again Argentina has been beaten by a geographically smaller country. First the Falklands and now this. Only this time its both a geographically, politically and economically smaller state. LOL
Oct 05th, 2012 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Damn yankees always pushing and invading weaker countries with his puppy UK from behind! “I'm speaking about governments ok!?”
Oct 05th, 2012 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hands up if you believe it is a sensible viewpoint to develop nuclear weapons over this issue - especially when you're broke?
Oct 05th, 2012 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@55 Idiot
Oct 05th, 2012 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@57 suck my eggs! :)
Oct 05th, 2012 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The suggestion that Argentina would develop nuclear weapons shows two things.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly that Argentina still fears a nuclear response to any aggression and secondly that they are hypocrites, claiming as they did that the UK had sent a nuclear submarine armed with nuclear weapons into the South American nuclear free zone, whilst they would seek to acquire both nuclear submarines (both Brazil & Argentina have tried) and nuclear weapons as well, if they could.
The Junta narrowly dodged a bullet back in 1982. As it happened, the Task Force did not have time to offload the nuclear weapons they carried as part of their standard armament for NATO operations. The NDBs were cross-decked from the destroyers to the carriers & RFAs for safe keeping - which puts paid to the oft-told lie that the Argentines successfully attacked HMS Invincible, because she was carrying MC600s.
The truth is that Argentina had not signed the Treaty of Tlatelolco before the conflict and if the Task Force had suffered the loss of a major asset (such as a carrier) it would have been legal under international law for the other carrier to carry out nuclear strikes on each of the Argentine air bases to remove them once and for all.
It has been made perfectly clear to Argentina's leaders that any attempt to acquire nuclear weapons would not only incur the displeasure of the permanent members of the UN security council, but also Argentina's more progressive neighbours, who would feel immediately threatened by a breach of the treaty that protects their security as well.
You only have to see the 'nuclear porn' (pictures of Russian SSBNs) posted on Argentine nationalist sites on Facebook by CFK supporters to know that if they cannot get nukes themselves, they fervently believe that Russia would come to Argentina's aid in time of crisis. They even try to interest the Chinese for the same reason.
Dream on kitties. We know you fear nuclear weapons & if you misbehave, you'll find out how hot they get!
A message from an Argie who has just woken up:
Oct 05th, 2012 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0““It’s impossible to imagine then that one of the most important symbols of the Argentine navy would be detained at the port of Tema, Ghana, over a judicial order,” fumed Capt. Carlos Alievi.” (NYP) He said as he was chucked off his Flagship of the AG Fleet.
Does it get any better than this?
YOU'D BETTER BELIEVE IT.
LOL
I think it very probable that Brazil will achieve the capability of nuclear powered submarines and that she will not share that technology with her neighbours. I also believe that Brazil will not want nuclear weapons, they seem to be a far too intelligent and developed country to go down that path and know that it brings no advantage belonging to the nuclear club. Nuclerar weapons are a curse they would not want to bring on themselfs.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@5 It's property hasn't been “stolen”. Argieland expropriated YPF without prior compensation in breach of its own constitution. http://www.senado.gov.ar/web/interes/constitucion/english.php See Section 17. The Libertad has been detained in accordance with the law. All argieland has to do is come up with US$10 million plus!
Oct 05th, 2012 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@28 Are you sure? The last time I arrested a ship, nobody was allowed ashore. Even contact with a chandler wasn't permitted!
@34 Why can't we call argtards argtards? Didn't the majority of argtards vote for the chief argtard? Or was it fixed? Sooner or later you get what you deserve. In 1982, the argtards invaded some British islands. Retardedly, they forgot who has the best and most professional army in the world. Bar none. So they got their backsides kicked. What would the Americans have done had they lost all their helicopters and humvees. Did the argtards learn? They did not. They are still lying. So they get called what they deserve to be called. Argtards!
@35 Got a couple of Arleigh Burkes not doing anything? HMS Dauntless could come back through the Panama Canal and join them!
@45 The USA and Britain would never find themselves in such a situation. We stick to our agreements and pay our debts. And the demographics of Ghana doesn't mention any Jews.
@49 What about us British?
@56 According to the Prat, he wants nuclear weapons as a defence. I have trouble with the concept. How do you “defend” yourself with nuclear weapons when no-one is attacking you? How do you “defend” yourself with nuclear weapons when no-one is using nuclear weapons against you? Then there's the small matter of the Treaty of Tlatelolco. I say “small” because argieland thinks nothing of breaching treaties, conventions and international agreements when it suits. It can best be described as amoral!
@58 Willing to stamp on 'em!
@61 Brazil had a “secret” nuclear weapons program in the 70s and 80s!
I would say that this is much cheaper than calling on Unasur and sending the Carrier Sao Paolo and her fleet to escort the ship out to sea. This is what Uruguay is anticipating if no solution is found. There are guest cadets from several SA countries on board. Uruguay, Brazil, Paraguay, Chile, Bolivia, Ecuador , Venezuela, Colombia.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0She has been on maneuvers on the North Coast and her call into Bahia has been called off and ordered back to Rio De janeiro.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sao_Paulo_carrier.jpg
The Sao Paolo is a sister ship of the broken up 25 de Mayo.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 063. You are a f'ing moron. You think Brazil will get intercede in a debt collection between Argentina and USA & Ghana? Invade Ghana's sovereign waters to re-take an Argentinian ship? Put their prestige and lives at risk? Create an international incident for another country?
Oct 05th, 2012 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are smoking something mighty strong or
You are delusional because nobody that can type can be that stupid.
#63
Oct 05th, 2012 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your wilki. ref. brings up pictures of files - ie tools !
I believe Ghana has defense agreements with the USA and the UK.
This could be embarrassing . How do you think the rest of Africa would view an attack on one of their fellow countries. It would be classed as an attack on the African homeland and also on a member of the Commonwealth of which Nigeria and South Africa are members.
The advantage to Brazil being....?
Gunboat diplomacy is what Argentina always accuses the UK of threatening. It's OK for the Argies to apply it as they are beyond reproach !
Has Argentina asked for this or is it your bright idea.
Yankeeboy
Oct 05th, 2012 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nah he did not say that, did he? read it again. Is he saying Uruguay want to send a fleet? not sure what he is saying, perhaps PA can clarify. he is aware that Ghana is a member of our commonwealth. Guess there is another RN SSB's patrol area designated then!
Embassy / High Comission / Consulate for Argentina
Oct 05th, 2012 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Office : Consulate
Street Address : Echeverria 2557 2 A
City : Buenos Aires
State : Buenos Aires
Country : Argentina
Telephone : (+54-1) 7856610
i propose all Argentines to occupy the consulate of Ghana in Argentina Untill they return the thefted ship.
Having served in HM Forces it was taken for granted that our intelligence, corporate knowledge, equipment, CREDIT RATING (FFS), tactics, personal kit, etc, was all pretty good in world terms. If we had a job to do we had the funding to go and do it and our contractors and suppliers always knew they'd get paid, albeit a little late sometimes.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some smaller forces had the flexibility to move quicker on decisions and buy the latest kit quicker than us but overall we were given the resources to do what was usually a pretty good job.
WTF it must feel like to be in the rank and file of something like the Argentine military I can only try to imagine.
Is there any Argentine military reading this? Would you care to let us know how it feels? Are you embarrassed or is this just the norm when you're so far down the list?
I'm not trying to be funny but I am intrigued to know because something that I think helped us was the knowledge that the odds were usually in our favour at the sharp end.
@61
Oct 05th, 2012 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I believe that's true. Brazil may very well acquire an SSN. They might even be able to persuade the US, UK or French to train the officers. After all, we don't want them to lose their vessel accidentally. I doubt that Brazil would seek Russian training, as their record has not be altogether spotless. It would certainly give Brazil an edge over their neighbours, but I doubt that it would confer any strategic value.
The Brazilian Navy would most certainly not assist in recovery of the Argentine flagship. If the Casa Rosada did call, all they would hear is the laughter as the Brazilian Naval officers fell off their clairs and rolled around the floor!
PH
Oct 05th, 2012 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Communique from the Republic of Ecuador to the Republic Of Argentina.
”With reference to you forthcoming operation to occupy the Ghanain Embassy. We take great pleasure in showing our solidarity by sending you are formost expert in these matters. Please excuse his deplorable Spanish language. it is his Australian accent, he is working on it. There may however be a slight delay, whilst we try to extradite (no pun intended) his sorry arse, from our Embassy in London.”
Attention Argentine's it is our responsibility to occupy ghana consulate Untill the pirate regime returns the thefted ship. Bellow is the address of the pirate consulate office.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Embassy / High Comission / Consulate for Argentina
Office : Consulate
Street Address : Echeverria 2557 2 A
City : Buenos Aires
State : Buenos Aires
Country : Argentina
Telephone : (+54-1) 7856610
http://www.facebook.com/TruthTellingTroll?fref=ts
Oct 05th, 2012 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Pirate hunter
Oct 05th, 2012 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For this and many other reasons I as an Argentine support a nuclear defense program, if this was USA or Britain they would have declared war already
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6484279.stm
You dont arf talk bollox
@72 Hurry up then. You are calling for the occupation so lead the protesters and get down there.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Ghanaians, have demanded cash, hard cash, gold perhaps.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And all the tough speaking Argies can do is, whine whine whine,
still,
Their was nothing you could do anyway, but waggle your tongue..
Hmm that reminds me, what do I say all the time...
Oct 05th, 2012 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is only yours if you can defend it
I guess the Rgs see why I say that now...
@69 JB
Oct 05th, 2012 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am ex services too. Suprising how many of us are on here. I watched a movie on youtube the Argies made about their war in 82. I felt sorry (Not much though) for the poor bastards, their squaddies. At the way their NCO's and Officers treated them like fucking animals. I do not know what rank you got to, me, I only made Cpl, but my guys ate first, they slept first they reorged first, then I took care of myself. If that didn't happen I was in a world of shit with my boss. That is the difference between them and us, we care about the guys we fight with and they care about us. That's what makes us so good at it!!
@70Nigel
Agree with your analysis, having an SSb and operating one are two different things entirely. We and the yanks have been doing it for more than 50 years and we are both good at it, very, very good at it. You can not buy or train experience. Saying that, if the knowledge was to be passed on, the Brazilians are probably the best people in South Ametica to pass it on to. Them and the Chileans, though I doubt Chile will develope the technology for some time.
As long as Brazil does not , or is not tempted to share , train , or support argentina with any new future weapons.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0trust is built, not bought.
You said it mate. Though to be frankly honest, can you ever see a time when Brazil would trust Argentina enough to share technology, especially this kind of technolgy. Me , I think Brazil knows she is on the verge of ascending to the pole position on her continent and becoming a nation of substance, not just ecomicaly,but on the world scene. It mind sound daft, but Brazil 2016 will demonstrate that.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I always think that trust is a two way street. So far Argentina prefers to drive one way only!
64 Simon68 (#) “The Sao Paolo is a sister ship of the broken up 25 de Mayo.”
Oct 05th, 2012 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No. It is a French Clemenceau class carrier, the former Foch. She is larger than the British Colossus class carriers of WW II vintage built in the mid 60's and and during it's life has undergone modernizations in France and Brazil.
The Argentine Naval air wing performs joint operations on this ship several times a year and contributes to its maintenance funding. Argentina has an agreement with Brazil when it can be called into service and is available for use under the umbrella of Unasur. She is equipped to handle Super Standard for Argentina and A-4's for the Brazilian Navy, and Trackers for both, plus an array of helicopters. In fact, fully stocked she can carry up to 40 or so Aircraft vs. 22 of the 25 de Mayo.
65 yankeeboy (#) No I am not a moron; at least most people don't think so. You sound to be one.
This is no longer a debt collection issue with the said countries. You cannot impound a military ship, especially an unarmed one that cannot defend itself from such attempt. This detention is in violation of International law and the Geneva conventions of the sea. The crew is obliged to stay with the ship and they are now considered hostages. It is thus a provocation of a Unasur member and to all of the members that have a crewman on board, thus, Unasur as a whole. It is in Unasurs' right to use whatever means necessary to settle this matter if the Ghana refuses to release the ship.
I don't smoke and never have. You seem to know well the effects of smoking something strong and it's effects, don’t you?
I am neither delusional nor stupid. I just call things as they are.
Ghana’s' sovereign waters would not be invaded. Under International law the fleet would remain outside of the territorial waters with active air cover and the Libertad would sail out under its own conventional power. The fleet would await her until she reached international waters and escort her away. If
Outside all the smoke that this situation may cause, #81 is correct. No country can just grab another's warship just because they did not pay. Confiscation a Navy vessel is...an act of war. It gets more complicated with a number of South American countries have members onboard...“military members”. I wonder what the Navy brass is thinking right now....if Unasur gets its act together and gather a fleet to take action....they are on their own right to do so.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Personally, I would had left port the minute I heard the retention order!!!
@81
Oct 05th, 2012 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You cannot impound a military ship”
Actually you can. Just ask the crew of Libertad.
You can even sink military ships, there are plenty at the bottom of the sea if you need proof.
I invite all Argentine's to come next week to occupy the consulate of ghana, we will be celebrating the expulsion of ghana and their consulate back to pirate land, we wish the jews in ghana a long hated existence without Argentina. There's no difference between white or black jews, they are all the same scum bags.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.facebook.com/events/330731473689378/?ref=ts&fref=ts
@68 Don't mess about, Ghana. Shoot terrorists dead. All argies are terrorists. Shoot all argies dead.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@72 Message to Ghanaians. Any attack on your embassy is an act of war. You know what to do. Kill!
@81 Point by point.
It's not unarmed. Detention is legal as an argie government asset when the argie government has failed to obey legal court orders. Unasur could try. Ghanaian allies could reasonably respond with major force. Got anything capable of firing across Ghanaian territorial waters. In international waters, you're dead meat. Ghanaian Navy, Royal Navy, US Navy, Commonwealth navies.
You want to rely on “law”? A law you don't comply with? Haul it out of the water and set up the auction. Destroy it by fire. Let''s all watch it burn. Argie survivors that reach shore? argie government pays for repatriation. Or they can walk. In international waters, sink anything argie as interfering with law and justice. Increase argie bond to US$100 million. Actual money to be deposited. No argie is trustworthy!
Well done to Ghana, unlike the Spanish who just sat by and watched whilst they were robbed blind. Who would have thought it would be Ghana that would highlight to the world what a collection if thieving dirt bags the Argentines truly are.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Um, they did impound it. Argentina/UnaSur will not do anything militarily. They are too weak, disorganized and uninterested in helping Argentina out of an embarrassing situation.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0do you think Brazil will enter into this dispute, don't think so matey, Ghana would kick your arse anyway with a couple of dhows and rocket propelled grenades
Oct 05th, 2012 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As long as you understand that Ghana,Today,, the Ghana Armed Forces are in military alliance with the People's Republic of China's People's Liberation Army....
Oct 05th, 2012 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0there are 3 things Argentina MUST do:
Oct 05th, 2012 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) save money to pay the bond.
2) keep saving more money to honor all debts.
3) next time vote with the head, not with your pocket.
LOL!
Oct 05th, 2012 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well this was amusing, particularly the screeches for violating the diplomatic immunity of the Ghana consulates. As if the Argentinians didn't have enough problems without pissing off Ghana as well.
@81
Oct 05th, 2012 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How interesting that a random passing American would be so well informed.
@81/63
Oct 05th, 2012 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0HA HA HA
PRoRG American is convinced that Brazil will use its naval assets to help out poor pathetic Argentina who cant pay debt. My god this man is deluded. not to mention that the Sao Paulo is undergoing major testing that should have been completed a year ago. Any way what would you have: 1 50 year old 30,000T Sao Paolo or two brand new 70,000T Queen Elizabeth class carriers?
64 Simon68 (#) Continued
Oct 05th, 2012 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't smoke and never have. You seem to know well the effects of smoking something strong and its effects don’t you?
I am neither delusional nor stupid. I just call things as they are.
Ghana’s' sovereign waters would not be invaded. Under International law the fleet would remain outside of the territorial waters with active air cover and the Libertad would sail out under its own conventional power. The fleet would await her until she reached international waters and escort her away. If the violating nation attempts to prevent the ship from leaving port, than the fleet and air power can be used to enforce the ships departure after reasonable ultimatum has been given.
Ghana has planted the seed for an international incident, not Argentina or Unasur.
Argentina should just pay this extortion money and learn from this to make a better intelligence assessment of ports of call in the future. Hold outs smust be put on notice that the 10M will be be deducted in any future agreement with the bondholders. Unasur must make Ghana pay for this adventure by other means.
In this case, we have a corrupt African country that tries to pass for a western friendly democracy, one of the new Darlings of Wall Street, a Commonwealth country, a judge that was on the take, a President that is promised something under the table and some future deal by a British based legal entity representing vulture funds. It has all of the makings of a British Intelligence sponsored operation following tradition to just make trouble on the international scene.
Meanwhile the Sao Paolo is sailing back to Rio.
92 HansNiesund (#) Mein Herr
“How interesting that a random passing American would be so well informed.”
Why do you say this. Does being an American exclude me from being well informed?
@81 Please show the link to Statute Law on this because I for one do not believe you.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And what are a bunch of AG LatAm friends, even the military going to do?
Laugh at the AG Captain fuming on the dock and then get the next flight home, if they have enough money and their passports I would imagine, certainly not start a military action on behalf of AG.
@94
Oct 05th, 2012 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Read my comment at 93 sir, Brazil is not going to waste its time beating up a small country like Ghana that only wants its payment from Argentina. You really are foolish to believe that Brazil or any other SA nation will waste so much money to get back a sailing trainer from a country that hasn't payed its debt. Stop defending Argentina and grow up.
For a country that abuses everybody else’s rights
Oct 05th, 2012 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Seems odd, that they now complain of others,
Pay up, or lose it,
There is nothing Argentina can do,
She is friends with china, and belongs to the AU,
Just what are you going to do.
.
Hmm...Argentina explicitly waived its sovereign immunity
Oct 05th, 2012 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.acus.org/new_atlanticist/cry-libertad-ghanas-blow-rule-law-fiscal-probity
These holdout creditors have won more than one hundred court judgments against Argentina in courts around the world. Legal action is made possible because, in the process of getting the loans it eventually defaulted on, Argentina explicitly waived its sovereign immunity, thus rendering enforcement proceedings against it a matter of routine commercial debt collection in common law countries like the United States, England, and Ghana, a former British colony.
While this episode may have been planned by Argentina’s creditors with the objective of shaming the country into ponying up the full amount it owes them if, for nothing else, than to avoid the ignominy of having its once proud navy’s flagship seized and sold off to satisfy part of the debt, Africa watchers will derive a different satisfaction from the fact that it simultaneously focused well-deserved attention on not only Ghana’s robust economic performance, but also its commitment to the rule of law and fiscal probity, principles which transcend borders and bridge the expanse of the Atlantic Ocean.
Good luck getting Brazil to help you losers. Maybe th mighty Bolivian navy can threaten Ghanta...
baahahahahaa
@94
Oct 05th, 2012 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“corrupt” Ghana stands at number 69 on the Transparency International Corruption Perception Index. That's not quite Scandinavian standard but it's way ahead of, for example, Argentina at number 100.
@98 yankeNobody
Oct 05th, 2012 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0so what? I repeat, Argentina and the USA are having difficult economic times...
soon the USA will have to pay ONE TRILLION DOLLARS TO CHINA..IF NOT CHINA WILL TAKE THE USA...of course, is embarrasing...
Sussie, We pay our bonds every day. Every single day. Anyone anytime can cash them in at any financial institution in the world. They are the same as U$ every where in the world. We even honor the ones that we issued 100 years ago if someone may still have one. The rates we pay are practically zero and it will stay that way for the foreseeable future.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't why I am bothering trying to explain finance to a maid that probably uses a check cashing business because she can't open a bank account but well I'm bored today.
So double standards then. An alleged rapist seeks refuge in a south american embassy and they scream respect our rights. An African country, exercising power through their own courts and they scream. storm and occupy their emabassy. Duhhhhh, what you playing at, you realy look like a bunch of prize dickheads!
Oct 05th, 2012 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@101 YankeeNobody
Oct 05th, 2012 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am not a maid. I did not work as a maid and I never will.
Please, pay attention:
The USA don't have ONE TRILLON DOLLARS to pay CHINA in the near future.
The USA is paying 50 billons dollars p/year...on interest to China ....since 2006.....
The USA National Debt Clock is telling all that the bubble might burst!
So, the situation in Argentina is not that bad.
If you are residing in the USA, prove it!
Mail me a postcard to:
Sussie Brown
P.O.Box 7141
Tempe, AZ 85281
A military ship cannot be used as for this type of dispute. Everyone knows this. China knows it, the AU knows it, the US knows it, etc. This is the making of a Ghann judge on the take. The AUs' best option is to help defuse this matter by convincing Ghana to back off. Too much at stake in trade relation with Unasur. Cannot allow to have this pattern going on in the future elsewhere. I rest my case.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The USA can print as many $ as we need to pay any debt. I am not suggesting we do it but that is why we would never default.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Latina in Az...odds are you are an illegal mexican maid. Why would a waste a stamp to mail you anything.
The ship is under arrest... not the crew.....they can go home whenever they want to.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are plenty of arrested cargo ships rotting away around the world that have been long since abandoned by their crews..and owners...
@102 Need to remind you that the story behind Julian Anssange's ALLEGED rape is mediocre at best, and the witnesses are unreliable. Just read through all the sites that report on this daily, read the news sites, WikiLeaks too, and come to a collective decision on this matter before calling someone a rapist. Not that I'm saying you are, just making a point.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0funny sad and so so Madam Presidente - perhaps she could use some of those American $ that she took from her own people and refuses to let them use abroad and buy it back AND then use some to pay the Brasilians for the stadium lights power so they can play the football game sometime this year
Oct 05th, 2012 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@107
Oct 05th, 2012 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did I not say “alleged” rapist. Mediocre or best, legal systems exist to investigate allegations! Not social media, not national media and certainly not consulate officials. The due process of international law has been complied with.
Scrap it shall we, take a vote on line, scrap the worlds legal systems and decide by cyberspace whether a person is guilty or not. Scrap hundreds of years of hard earned legal systems in hundred of countries and arrive at a verdict by the the cult of celebrity.
@59, 70 Nigel
Oct 06th, 2012 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please disregard Privts-Hunter.
He is just a kid, ALEX VARGAS, and he lives in Scarborough, Canada with his parents.
He Has never lived in Argentina, except perhaps as a smaller child.
He is NOT in the military and never has been.
He is angry and likely mentally -ill.
ALEX rants about nukes frequently, regardless of topic.
He is a self-proclaimed racist.
There is no point engaging in conversation with him. It is time you will never get back, but by now, I expect you realise this.
We just ignore him usually, except for the odd chuckle.
Hope this helps.
Our ship is not sinking!
Oct 06th, 2012 - 12:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Their ship is sinking! Just look at it!
I'd rather do something about our own ship...
NO! LOOK! THEIR SHIP IS SINKING!
Oh.
We sank.
Do what every decent person does, pay your fucking bills, don't you have any pride?
Oct 06th, 2012 - 01:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0@110 Troy
Oct 06th, 2012 - 01:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you. I wasn't aware that this one was undergoing psychological treatment. It's useful to know.
The point I was making is that many of the pro-CFK nationalists tend to have wet-dreams about acquiring nuclear weapons, so they can:
1) fanticise about using them against the UK (both before or after any aggression against FI)
2) use them to frighten their neighbours, especially Chile, Brazil & Uruguay
3) to assist them to threaten the peaceful Falkland Islanders into giving up their rights.
When these nationalists are threatened, or if Argentina is embarrassed by TMBOA's antics, their 'Go To' response is to say they should start a nuclear program to acquire nuclear weapons.
The lawful seizure of the ARA Libertad is a perfect example of this and the response above shows how their immediate reaction is to reach for their guns and start threatening Ghana with some UNASUR task force to liberate the ship by force. They think that having nuclear weapons would somehow make the african nation back down. Of course, we know it wouldn't help.
The problem is that nuclear weapons are not the 'panacea' they appear to be. They can create more problems for any state that has them. Look at Israel. They've had nukes since the mid seventies & whilst the arab states are terribly reluctant to attack them, it has encouraged asymmetrical attacks.
Worse than that, now that Iran is hell-bent on acquiring nukes with the intention of using them, Israel has to strike first or be destroyed in turn. Not a very palatable decision for the Israeli Prime Minister to make - causing the deaths of millions of humans. President Truman understood this only too well.
I don't believe that AR would attempt to acquire nukes, because Brazil would never let them. They've too much to lose to let CFK ruin it for them.
@100
Oct 06th, 2012 - 01:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0One question.
How are you HELPING?
You know deficit has been a higher ratio of gdp before, right?
Clinton had surpluses of the general budget.
The U.S. has the LOWEST fed tax of aaall the majors: No VAT, Nothing on income for nearly the majority (thx Bush :)
A tweak might be ok. These things take decades. PATIENCE! (:
http://money.howstuffworks.com/only-53-percent-pay-income-tax.htm
@ 81 ProRG_American
Oct 06th, 2012 - 02:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0“This detention is in violation of International law and the Geneva conventions of the sea.”
Interesting.
Which section(s) and article(s)?
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/08/11/bad-day-for-vulture-fund-that-was-after-100-million-dollars-from-congo
Oct 06th, 2012 - 02:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0www.gregpalast.com/getting-into-massas-drawersthe-truly-creepy-details-of-the-congressmans-behavior/
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/08/11/bad-day-for-vulture-fund-that-was-after-100-million-dollars-from-congo
Settlements typically are made at a discount in hard or local currency or ....?..
I have an idea! Falklanders pay the 10m bond, in return for the vessel! Then UK sends some RN boys over to sail it to PStanley, where it is renamed HMS Kelper, a Jolly Roger is then hoisted, and then shes turned into a museum on the history (real history, not the misleading tripe RG,s believe) of the Falklands ! Free entry to school children and RGs!
Oct 06th, 2012 - 03:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 116 Pirat-Hunter
Oct 06th, 2012 - 05:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Has Argentina been moved to Congo?
If not, your link has little to do with the Argentine debt, as Argentina explicitly waived its sovereign immunity on the debt - or else no one would have lent her a centavos. Congo did not.
Of course, Argentina does have the option to appeal to Britain’s Privy Council.
This is no longer a debt collection issue with the said countries. You cannot impound a military ship, especially an unarmed one that cannot defend itself from such attempt. This detention is in violation of International law and the Geneva conventions of the sea.
Oct 06th, 2012 - 07:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Confiscation a Navy vessel is...an act of war.
lol this thread just gets better and better
It hasn't been confiscated.. it is under arrest.
Oct 06th, 2012 - 07:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0The government of RG land owes money... this ship belongs to the RG government....simple....
@81 - PRoRG
Oct 06th, 2012 - 07:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is it illegal to seize military hardware? Please link to any international law that states that Ghana acted illegally?
I also find it amusing that Argentina felt it wasn't illegal to enter and search a US military plane, despite the fact that the US said it was. Oh, but I forgot. The Argentine government doesn't feel that it has to follow international law, but everybody else does. Double standards!
But the Argentina government waived its sovereign rights in order to secure the loans it then refused to pay back, so it is completely legal to seize her assets, including military hardware.
These people are a complete joke! On the one hand they defy international conventions by refusing to pay their debts; yet on the other hand their president goes. cap in hand, to the UN and trys to enlist community support for its trumped up dispute with Britain over the Falklands Islands.
Oct 06th, 2012 - 08:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am sure that the international community will be falling over themselves to assist the argies! Not.
If I were the Ghaneans and the Hedge Fund , I'd start upping the ante .
Oct 06th, 2012 - 08:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0I would hang a crewman from the yard arm every hour on the hour 'till the bond was paid .
Sussie 2012 : I've run out of pop corn , go fetch some .
This gets better & better,
Oct 06th, 2012 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Normally you have to pay good money to see a show like this,
But this show is free!
How entertaining!
Alex Vargas, are there Jewish people living in Ghana?
and Argentina is racking up U$49k /day in port charges....hahahahahaa
Oct 06th, 2012 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0@81 Pr0RG_American
Oct 06th, 2012 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0I've got a better idea. Why not just claim the ship is American? Nobody will ever twig that one.
81. “You cannot impound a military ship, especially an unarmed one that cannot defend itself from such attempt.”
Oct 06th, 2012 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I bet a lot of people won't try to impound an armed ship. I guess this was the perfect target!
Pretty and weak just like the country.
hahahaha
More happy news for Argentina, soon they will be embargoed world wide! www.nypost.com/p/news/business/singer_hunt_for_treasures_eBCiGMJEn8gOYhkoux94EJ
Oct 06th, 2012 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't think our friends in Brazil will help you :0)http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Latest-News/2012/October/05/121005-Olympics-Rio-Navy-Agreement
Oct 06th, 2012 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0129 slattzzz
Oct 06th, 2012 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0OMG! (from an atheist) no wonder we haven't seen TMBOA this week:
1) Her UN diatribe turned into a fiasco;
2) She couldn't keep her temper with the undergraduates of Harvard;
3) All the oil companies she wanted money off told her to piss off;
4) The AG Flagship was sequestrated in Ghana against a USD 10 M bond and the crew chucked off;
5) AND NOW HER SECOND BEST FRIEND IS 'GETTING INTO BED' WITH THE BRITS!!!! No chance of the Brasilian Navy coming to spring the Flagship out of arrest there then.
Oh, the HUMULIATION, oh the fact that all the rest of her friend are laughing their socks at the stupid AG 'government' and TMBOA can take ALL THE CREDIT!
I can't take it anymore, laughing so hard has given me the stitch. And this was less than ONE week from her shopping trip in New York.
130 ChrisR
Oct 06th, 2012 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and here was me thinking I'd had a bad wek at the office this week...
still, you've got to laugh haven't you?
Hmmm for 10 million US she looks like a perfect addition to the Royal Navy as a sail training vessel for our Navy Cadets. If it is confiscated I am sure the £6.2 million pounds could be found to buy her off the creditors so she can be inducted into British service under a new name! I can think of a few good ones ... Sheffield, Coventry, Antelope or Ardent all seem VERY appropriate!
Oct 06th, 2012 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lets hope we shall soon see her flying the White Ensign!
If Singer does sell her there would be many people / countries wanting to buy her.
Oct 06th, 2012 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However, he has more than enough money to keep her as a permanent reminder / embarrassment to TMBOA.
That would be my choice and form a charity for youngsters of all classes to learn to sail her. Even the argies would not be so stupid as to attack the US flagged ship carrying young people, would they?
They could adopt the traditions of old: when an enemy ship was taken the victors flag flew ABOVE a small version of the original owners flag to remind everyone not to mess with the new owner.
@105 YankeeNobody
Oct 06th, 2012 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the USA can print as much money is needed to keep the Federal Goverment afloat....why is borrowing foreign monies?...
Check the USA National Debt Clock?...tic tic tic...the internet shows the latest....$$$$$$$$$$$
Yes, the USA defaulted in 1933. Check the facts in the internet.
The USA cannot pay ONE TRILLON DOLLARS TO CHINA !
China won't take ships or drones...because are worthless...
The USA will have to pay China with LAND....stay tune....
Amazing really,
Oct 06th, 2012 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CFK shouts and screams over the falklands,
but is remarably quiet over ghana,
is it because she wishes no conflict,
she has no military,
or as a peacefull nation, she just wishes to talk to them.
May I suggest many of you read upon the history behind Paul Singer, before you wipe away your tears for him. He is not simply a “duped” investor who was cheated out of bonds purchased from Argentina in good faith.
Oct 06th, 2012 - 10:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Look up the history of his fund's dealings with sovereign debt, and then you may realize that perhaps this gentlemen and Argentina fully deserve each other.
What he is doing here is in fact nothing (since Argentina can afford to pay what is supposedly owed to him without severe harm to their economy), you should inform yourselves about what he did in the Congo and a few other countries far poorer than Argentina is. It would appear he has friends in high places both in New York and London, and I would in fact put forth that some in American and British judiciary make a tidy sum under the table courtesy of their alliance with Singer. It is quite sickening to be honest.
This is not to dispel Argentina's obligations to reach a final settlement with all remaining creditors, but this particular man and his particular situation are in fact not “Mrs Smith and Mr Johnson” in Pittsburgh or Mr Mario in Turn, fighting to get their retirement money from loses incurred in their funds which invested in argentine bonds.
@136 Bacilus
Oct 07th, 2012 - 12:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for that note. Will look him up.
136 Bacilus Hypolite
Oct 07th, 2012 - 01:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0This guy is a businessman. His business is making money from companies / countries who do not want to pay their dues.
The banks and others who could not / did not want the hassle took a hell of a haircut on these bonds and he bought the others who did not settle for 15c or so on the $.
Then he did what he does best and AG are now having to face the consequences’ of their own actions. Had they paid the bonds out as they should have done none of this would be necessary.
If Singer has operated outside your idea of probity and the public good just remember who he is dealing with. You may not like it but get over it.
I hope he takes this bunch of crooks for every cent at face value plus interest on every bond his company holds.
@138
Oct 07th, 2012 - 01:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am afraid I do not entirely concur. Had Mr Singer stuck to countries like Argentina (which amongst world standards are relatively well-off), then I would agree with you it is a business man doing his art, in a dog-eat-dog world. In this case the people of Argentina would not be directly affected by the process.
However what he carried out in Africa is unethical under any moral, religious, or philosophical value system, and it was by premeditated design. His fund purchased distressed paper and then asked for a 5000% mark-up on the tender. There is no unpaid, nor accrued interest formula I can think of that would merit such usury. Whether US or UK courts sanctioned it is irrelevant. They are not infallible institutions and are accesories to an unscrupulous maneuver.
You simply do not make the people of Africa, most of whom are on the fence of chronic malnutrition, to bear the burden of such ill-conceived governmental schemes.
You mentioned I must remember who he is dealing with. I did and said as much. Nontheless it does not make him any more of a sympathetic fellow. That's why I find myself ambivalent on this latest of his gambits. The best outcome in all honesty is that both sides are a nasty thorn on each other's backcheeks for a long, long time to come.
The Singer /Kirchner combo seems like a match made in heaven.
Oct 07th, 2012 - 04:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder if Titterman can feel a little old fashioned karma coming down here....?
at 134 sussie,
Oct 07th, 2012 - 05:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0what are you dribbling on about????
rantings of someone insane .....again!!!
There's just a little fashioned karma coming down
Oct 07th, 2012 - 08:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just a little old fashioned justice going round
A little bit of sowing and a little bit of reaping
A little bit of laughing and a little bit of weeping
Just a little old fashioned karma coming down
Coming down coming down just a little old fashioned karma coming down
It really ain't hard to understand
If you're gonna dance you gotta pay the band
It's just a little old fashioned karma coming down
139. You have a very similar writing style and logic of 3-4 of the nicks here. So I will just call you Toby.
Oct 07th, 2012 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your logic is devoid of what is considered to be right and wrong and someone who has never learned the concept of honor.
It strikes me as the same logic of someone who has just lost their house because they have not made a mortgage payment in a year. It is unfair, the banks lack caring and understanding. blah blah blah
Like the example above Argentina is a deadbeat robber. They have refused to pay their debts and court judgements then want to whine and carry on when someone tries to collect.
Mr. Singer has every right to collect anywhere in the world that respects the rule of law. He has won 100s of judgements in courts all over the world. His goal is to embarrass your corrupt and dishonorable county into paying what is owed.
He will win.
You will lose
He can outlast the current regime, the interest keeps accumulating and eventually Argentina will have to sell bonds internationally.
The problem is, Nestor, stupid stupid Nestor promised ( although an Rgs promise is not worth much) to pay all the bondholders who accepted the deal forced down their throats to compensate them equally if anyone in the future was to get a better deal. Argentina is already bankrupt she has no money to pay anyone. Not even gov't salaries or suppliers.
I can't wait until next year when it all falls apart.
I hope you like barely bread and soup.
139 Bacilus Hypolite
Oct 07th, 2012 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0And while you were checking this out did it strike you to check what the loans / bonds etc. were for and WHO actually got the money?
I have some personal experience of Nigeria when I worked in the oil industry there. Everyone was on the take, from bribing the immigration officers on arrival to the customs when you left.
The attractive figures of animal and traditionally dressed natives that were hand-carved by locals and purchased for a few dollars at the village market suddenly became valuable 'national treasures' and unwary people were put into the airport cells until huge fines were paid.
There are always two sides in this unfair world we live in.
BTW what has religion got to do with it unless you want even more trouble? (from an atheist).
@139
Oct 07th, 2012 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're right. Singer's an asshole. But you'd need a heart of stone not to be enjoying this.
@139
Oct 07th, 2012 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hahahaha XD
Triple T!
You know you're using a thesaurus from the 18th century, right?
@136
Oct 07th, 2012 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“This is not to dispel Argentina's obligations to reach a final settlement with all remaining creditors”
Argentina owes no pecuniary arrears to anyone, that qualifies as an erroneous asseveration. There were two take it or leave it offers proffered, the hold-outs refused to negotiate. They will never see a cent.
@147 - AG/Tobias/TTT
Oct 07th, 2012 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Er...wrong!
Actually the debtor cannot dictate terms to their creditors. They can make an offer to pay part or all of the debt on different terms, but if their offer is refused, it doesn't make the debt go away.
For example. You buy a car worth US$100,000 on credit. You are unable to make repayments, so you offer to pay US$10,000 and tell your creditor it's a take it or leave it deal. The car dealership isn't amused, nor are they willing to lose 90% of what you owe them.
They can do one of two things. Try to recover the debt from you personally, or sell your debt onto a debt collector. The debt collector tries to get you to repay what you owe, all the time adding interest onto your debt whilst you try to wriggle out of paying. You still refuse to pay stating that they car dealership should have accepted your offer, and because they didn't you are no longer obligated to pay them.
The debt collector isn't amused or convinced by your argument, so one day they turn up a your house and repossess your car.
It's all perfectly legal, and you are to blame for getting yourself into debt. You either couldn't afford the car in the first place and shouldn't have bought it, or your financial circumstances changed. Either way you are still responsible for repaying the debt.
That applies whether it is an individual, a company or a country.
So Tobias, Argentina is still obligated to repay its debts, no matter how much they try to wriggle out of it. The Argentine government can try to get the court decision overturned, but it doesn't look good.
So the Argentine Government is left with these options:
1. Try to get the court in Ghana to overturn its decision.
2. Pay the bond and get the ship back.
3. Refuse to pay, and see the ship sold, and every asset they have overseas seized and auctioned to pay off the debts.
No matter what option they take this is a huge embarrassment for the Argentine government, and to the people of Argentina.
@148
Oct 07th, 2012 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is AG/TTT/Tobius??
To compare a luxury car loan to sovereign debt indicates your complete dearth of perspective.
The only embarrassement is in your mind, you still believe your anglo value system is the only one that exists or is the only one under which everyon else is to be assessed? You just don't get it do you, no one gives a fuck about your anglo values or what you think of us.
I feel no embarrassment at all as I am not argentine (where did you get that), and even if I was one, I wasn't the one who took the debt so the fact you hold a nationality responsible for the actions of a government is quite hipocritical, since you constantly claim the past actions of the British should not be transferred to the people.
I smell a massive pile of hypocrisy, but what else is new from a society that has no moral center but that of self-interest and aggrandizement.
@149
Oct 07th, 2012 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps Argentina could apply under the Heavily Indebted Poor Countries Programme? There are conditions, of course, but they might get their ship back and it would also save their Trolls having to rename themselves after each meltdown.
It makes you all very small invididuals to not only take the side of a wealthy man on his quest to dispossess very poor people, this is like Carlos Slim going to a Mexico City barrio and taking the tv set from a bunch of poor families because of some unfulfilled clause. This is why no one respect the anglosaxons, they are immoral people who hide under “regulations” to justify their immorality.
Oct 07th, 2012 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure enough, you call the muslims immoral for targeting your civilians, the question is why that any different from this situation. If bankers can force the people of poor countries to pay with their lives for a few hundred million, then why can't the muslims do the same for their goals.
More and more hypocrisy, that is the only central value of the saxons.
@151
Oct 07th, 2012 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But goodness, Truth Telling Arifu, surely an African sounding gentleman such as yourself is heartened by the spectacle of a plucky African country standing up for the rule of law against the naval might of Argentina?
Although perhaps it is a shame that the Ghanaians don't seem to have followed the British branch of the Saxons in banning vulture funds from pursuing such claims through their courts. Maybe your friends in Boko Haram could have a quiet word with them?
@149 - AG
Oct 07th, 2012 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No it doesn't. Argentina isn't a poor country. It's a poorly led country. It has more than enough wealth to pay off all it's international debt, and have plenty to raise the standard of living for a great many Argentines. The problem is that they have institutionalised corruption.
That means the people at the top don't care bout the people at the bottom, but it doesn't make the country any less liable under international law for the debt.
This is not a case of the rich picking on the poor, it's a case of a potentially wealthy country refusing to accept reality, and trying to dictate the terms of loans made to them in good faith. They didn't try to renegotiate, they demanded that the world accept their conditions, but the World wasn't ready to cowtow to them.
By the way you write very much like Tobias aka TTT. It's the syntax, the style, the blind loyalty to Argentina, the use of big words to try and make you seem more intelligent (which never works), and the fact that you refer to the anglosaxons.
Pathetic Tobias, must try harder.
Given the British branch of the saxons take credit for the positive traits of their pond-hopping cousins, it is only air to also blame them for their moral frailties.
Oct 07th, 2012 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I must say, who is the Truth Troll? I've been lurking for a couple of weeks and he is credited in being behind a multitude of personas, from sussie, 2012, Guzz, Think, Tobius. They all seem very disparate characters... Now you accuse me.
I reluctantly inform you I am no such person. I say reluctantly because he seems to have so many of you, dozens of people here, all in a paranoid frenzy. They see this person in their closets, under their beds, and in their soup.
He must be real good and a formidable intellectual and debating threat in order to cause such rampant psychological scarring amongst the people here. He even has a fan club apparently online, and others have tried to impersonate him.
I don't know him, but given all that, one must admit he is a demiurge in this website.
TTT/AGob (how appropriate)
Oct 07th, 2012 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0AG bonds were undertaken with the sovereign clause deleted because no-one would deal with you without being able to sue the country. Knowing AG as we do I cannot understand why anyone would even consider buying a bond, perhaps they were naive or thought AG would honour its agreement. As you well know AG and honour is an oxymoron, you are just a moron.
It really is that simple to understand and I have no idea why you cannot admit it.
I do like the AGob tag though!
@154 Arifu
Oct 07th, 2012 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That must be some rather partial and fragmentary lurking if you've been here a couple of weeks and not run directly into the great man himself. He's all over the place, like a rash. Yet you are even unable to quote his full title correctly. Tsk tsk.
But never having met the demiurge himself, what a remarkable coincidence it is that you have inherited the very same obsessions, prejudices, phobias, irrationality and archaic language. What are the odds?
#151
Oct 07th, 2012 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here we go again under a different alias.
“More and more hypocrisy, that is the only central value of the saxons.”
So it's Germany's turn to be the baddies - makes a change.
The only Saxons left are in N.W.Germany - Dresden and Leipzig being the main cities.
According to you, about slightly less than 7 billion people don't respect them - that is almost as many as those who do not respect the Argentine.
“I smell a massive pile of hypocrisy, but what else is new from a society that has no moral center but that of self-interest and aggrandizement.”
You have described Argentina to a T ! or as we say here - your nose is too near your @rse
@155 and @157
Oct 07th, 2012 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What evidence is there that your country is any more honorable than these Argentines? It was your nation that embarked upon a war of agression under false pretenses, deliberately misleading others through bad dossiers and shamelessly lying in front of the UN, was it not? How is that less of an offense to humanity than some debt squabble?
@156
I have seen him, but I did not think he was particularly noteworthy. I did not realize he had traumatized so many here. I also did not even fathom he would be behind those other people, since they all seem to bring to the table very different angles of arguing.
What obsessions and prejudices do I have exactly? Quite presumptous for you to state this when you have only read a handful of my posts.
@158
Oct 07th, 2012 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's a shame you missed him. Towards the end he confessed he'd been wrong all along, especially in his view of the Brits, and intended to retire to a monastery to rejig his world view and atone for his sins. Up until then, he sounded exactly like you, and indeed your handful of posts have been uncannily like his plenitude.
@159
Oct 07th, 2012 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Uncannily like his plenitude? Wow, that's stilted language, one of the accusations made towards this Truth Troll.
Are you some sort of double agent? Are you in fact accusing me of being the person that in fact you are??
@160
Oct 07th, 2012 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How very perspicacious of you. Only here five minutes and you've already cottoned onto the problem of double agents. Keep it to yourself, of course, but in fact many of the posters in here who purport to be Argentine are really plants from MI6 intended to make the Malvinista cult look wicked and stupid. Watch out in particular for Pirat-Hunter and ProRG_American.
The Troll, of course, is widely suspected to have really been Sasha Baron-Cohen, but perhaps we shall never know.
@157 Arifu Gobakuwi Too bad you're TTT/Tobias etc.
Oct 07th, 2012 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Judging from the time it takes you to reply to a post, and your vocabulary in your posts, we all know that you are using external sources to make yourself appear as more articulate in the English language than the native people who use it every day. Did you know that people who have a vast range of vocabulary, tend to be more charismatic than intelligent? Most people who have normal grammar are more likely to contribute more to society, and generally intelligent. Just a note... Scots aren't Anglo Saxons. Learn your history of the country, then you'll find out.
Also, Scotland is considerably more respected across the world than Argentina, and also more honourable. We have contributed many things to society, and helped the world progress. I'll give you a few examples of things we've invented;
Telephone... Read up about Alexander Graham Bell, one of the most influential people in human history.
adhesive postage stamps, anaesthetics, antisepsis, artificial diamonds, reaping machine,
Bank of England, latent heat Brownian movement, Buicks, chemical bonds ,
penicillin, the decimal point, documentary films, Encyclopedia Britannica, engineering sciences,
fax machines, first cloned mammal, flailing machines, geosciences, golf,
historical novels, hypodermic syringes, Kelvin scale, percussion powder, logarithms,
Maxwell's equations, marmalade, mackintosh raincoats, macadamized roads, microwave ovens ,
colloid chemistry, breech-loading rifle ,tubular steel, quinine, Sociology,
pneumatic tyres, pink bathtubs, hollow pipe, drainage Peter Pan, radar,
paleobiology, polarization, cure for scurvy, King Arthur, Halloween,
refrigerators, Neptune bakelite, iron bridges solitons
the steam engine telephones thermos flasks/dewars the telegraph television
the stereotype sulphuric acid the steam-hammer cure for insomnia paraffin
Sherlock Holmes Toad of Toad Hall Long John Silver Jekyll and Hyde Auld Lang Syne
Whisky US Navy Beat that bitch!
“Telephone... Read up about Alexander Graham Bell, one of the most influential people in human history.
Oct 07th, 2012 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0adhesive postage stamps, anaesthetics, antisepsis, artificial diamonds, reaping machine,
Bank of England, latent heat Brownian movement, Buicks, chemical bonds ,
penicillin, the decimal point, documentary films, Encyclopedia Britannica, engineering sciences,
fax machines, first cloned mammal, flailing machines, geosciences, golf,
historical novels, hypodermic syringes, Kelvin scale, percussion powder, logarithms,
Maxwell's equations, marmalade, mackintosh raincoats, macadamized roads, microwave ovens ,
colloid chemistry, breech-loading rifle ,tubular steel, quinine, Sociology,
pneumatic tyres, pink bathtubs, hollow pipe, drainage Peter Pan, radar,
paleobiology, polarization, cure for scurvy, King Arthur, Halloween,
refrigerators, Neptune bakelite, iron bridges solitons
the steam engine telephones thermos flasks/dewars the telegraph television
the stereotype sulphuric acid the steam-hammer cure for insomnia paraffin
Sherlock Holmes Toad of Toad Hall Long John Silver Jekyll and Hyde Auld Lang Syne
Whisky US Navy”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a2SS0zqmzk
@163 Shit song, got any better ones
Oct 07th, 2012 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0tit.......utube gives you away. How long did it take you to come up with arifu gobakuwi?
Oct 07th, 2012 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@165
Oct 07th, 2012 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is there one person that was not mentally scarred by this troll TTT?
What a coincidence that not one person here answered my question:
What evidence is there that your country is any more honorable than these Argentines? It was your nation that embarked upon a war of agression under false pretenses, deliberately misleading others through bad dossiers and shamelessly lying in front of the UN, was it not? How is that less of an offense to humanity than some debt squabble?
@166 Actually we didn't have much of a choice at that time, as Tony Blair was a prick who allied with Bush. The nation didn't go to war-he did. As for honor, we have a lot of it. Too bad the Argentines, including yourself, disregard EVERY SINGLE debt judgement against them.
Oct 07th, 2012 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@167
Oct 07th, 2012 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wait, why are you the British people not responsible for the war you began, but the argentines are responsible for the debts they didn't incur?
How does your position on one torpedo your position on the other? Both the war and the borrowing were done by governments, not the citizens. Thus, if you exculpate one citizenry of their government how can you in the same sentence hold another citizenry culpable?
This is precisely the position the British here hold, which is whimsically inconsistent.
I'm not argentine.
@168 One rule of foreign policy in most countries;
Oct 08th, 2012 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0The government consistently makes decisions that the citizens oppose. We protested against it, but to no effect. We didn't know Blair would ally with Bush and invade Iraq. We didn't know 100,000+ people would be killed. The New Labour didn't have 'mass murdering' in their manifesto pledge, so it's not our fault it happened. It eventually stopped, as Blair's popularity was at an all time low. Anyway, you can't compare an invasion to a ship being rightfully detained by a debt collector. They're on two entirely different scales of importance. To be honest, I couldn't give a shit about the ship, but just come on her out of interest on what goes on in SA and what the posters are saying. Then I add my opinion. So please, stop the Brit bashing, criticizing us for the wrongdoings in the world (Argentina as a whole, not you), when it is not just us that creates a load of mess in the world. Why don't you criticize China for the economic collapse of other nations by enslaving their people in order to entice business into manufacturing goods there, just for profit. Criticize the businesses to, for that matter. China is one of the worst countries on this planet in terms of economic policy and trade. That's why we need to legally destabilize them, in order for the Western and SA economies to grow more consistently. Pushing aside the main matter, what do you think about the point I'm making on China? Fair or unfair criticism?
@166,
Oct 08th, 2012 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0again pumping himself up! if youre that clever, why do you waste your time on here! Make yourself usefull and save your country!
Poor tit.....still latching to moms tit rambling about war. Stick with the screenname TTT.....but it does not matter. Having a hard time with debtors not accepting less then they are owned and taking assets? Has the argentine navy been evicted from there DC buildings?
Oct 08th, 2012 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0@170
Oct 08th, 2012 - 12:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Answer the question: Let me put it simpler.
Why is an unpaid bill more immoral to the British than lying to bomb a country?
Toby is confused
Oct 08th, 2012 - 04:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 172
Oct 08th, 2012 - 04:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0How can u compare???? thats like trying to compare an apple with a wholly mammoth! There is no comparison! Try harder! You are looking as silly as ARA Libertad being held by Ghana!
A mistake. Like the Falklands.
Oct 08th, 2012 - 05:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Note part of the reason why reparations aren't an issue is that the coalition had to help Kuwait a few years earlier when Saddam invaded them.
The U.N. Security Council is purposely designed, for good reason, to not be able to assist any country with resources. Hopefully there'll be brilliant new ideas on promoting peace in the future.
@166 Arifu
Oct 08th, 2012 - 07:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0> Is there one person that was not mentally scarred by this troll TTT?
My dear Arifu, you have misunderstood. Nobody was scarred by the Troll, the Troll was a legend and a prince among men, remarkable both for his towering intellect and his unique origins.
Alone among mortals he was entirely free of sin, having been cloned in a secret lab in Tibet from the tears of the Panchen Lama. That was how he acquired the TTT title, only back then he wasn't Truth Telling Troll. The monks knew him as Test Tube Three.
And as for his intellect, he'd even mastered the passive in German. Almost.
176 HansNiesund
Oct 08th, 2012 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0My hat off to you sir, Test Tube Three!
LOL
Mind you I do like the AGob tag, it's so the TTT.
172 A Gob
Oct 08th, 2012 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are so one and the same as TTT. The linguistic characteristics of your posts are absolutely unmistakeable; there are plenty of racists on here but not many who would use 'Anglo Saxon' with a straight face.
What clinches it for me is the way you employ a logical fallacy and then brag about what an excellent debater you are. The fallacy is almost always the same one: a dog has four legs, a cat has four legs; therefore my dog is a cat. Or , in a classic example from you;
''Why is an unpaid bill more immoral to the British than lying to bomb a country?''
Don't ever give up. You might be very very stupid but you are quite entertaining.
This is soooo Pythonesque .
Oct 08th, 2012 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina reminds of the Black Knight .
They have had their arms and legs cut off but still threaten to bite , despite having no teeth .
Malen , more pop corn please , my little dumpling ...
@178
Oct 08th, 2012 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Since you are lacking understanding, let me explicate: Your fallacy is in fact, the British way of thinking.
It is you who equate unpaid debt with attacking a nation with bombs. It is shocking and appalling thinking, agreed, but that is what every solitary Anglo here supports.
Not just that: to the British, not being caught up with debt is a WORSE act of crime than going to war under mendacious pretenses, and lying to the nations of thed Earth about it.
So you misunderstand sir. I'm not the one equating a cat with dog due to their four legs, I'm the one mercilessly lampooning at such a proposition, the quintessence of 'anglo' mentality, your mentality, and one shared by all your compatriots. Which is one I've asked the question five times “why do the British feel more zealous about pursuing unpaid debt than punishing nations who go to war and murder thousands of children through lying”, and not one has had the manhood to respond. Caitiff is it not.
In fact it is your people who claim such a risible association. And far worse. Argentina is “breaking the law” with money, you spew outrage. The UK broke the law by lying under oath to the UN, and by breaking the UN charter in initiating a war without any self-defensive purpose, you cowardly dodge the question.
Not only do you equate a dog and a cat, you equate the AIDS virus with a dog, and in fact want to go after and punish the dog.
Repugnant, I know.
#178
Oct 08th, 2012 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Man tit, you are the most transparent individual I have ever meant in my 50 years of life. You shallow use of words in feeble attempts to convey your intelligence only heightens your lack of it. Even to most celebrated intelligent people on earth knows that brevity is the soul of wit, to quote a very famous person. Look it up!
And you are right......bombing a nation is not the same as unpaid debt as this article is about reclaiming property from argentine unpaid debt. Get back on topic and be brief.
You have serious issues titty with other countries debt and other countries going to war. I stems from argentina's inability to manage and pay their debt and their inability to wage war (as when the Brits used their Royal Boots and kicked your asses off their island)
@180 Tobias Now you really are showing your lack of intelligence and understanding. Let me repeat myself very briefly. It was the UK government that invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, not us. We disagreed, protested but to no avail. Therefore, it's not our fault. Simple as. Nothing else is true apart from this as it's a stated fact.
Oct 08th, 2012 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're just a rambler that spouts out the occasional 'impressive' grammar. You say that we equated all this bullshit about comparing war with debt, when it was in fact you that did this yesterday.
Overall, you're just a pathetic racist, that has nothing better to do than attack individuals over their nationality and clearly have regular patterns of condescending behaviour.
Last time I checked, you had “representative” government. Any court of law, will define “representation” (whether in law, economics, government, personal matters, public relations) as someone who acts on your behalf. That makes you equally responsible.
Oct 08th, 2012 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@183 Again.... lack of understanding as to how the government works, and what actually happened. Keep going, please.
Oct 08th, 2012 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@182
Oct 08th, 2012 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're falling for Tobias' Nigerian cousin's distraction tactics. It is rather hard to see what the Iraq war has got to do with Ghana impounding an Argentinian vessel of behalf of a New York litigant, and it is even harder to see how British failings are an excuse for Argentina not to pay its debts. Just sit back and enjoy some schadenlos Schadenfreude, eh Arifu?
@185 Yep
Oct 08th, 2012 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am not Tobias.
Oct 08th, 2012 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And what does this ship have to do with the British, or the Falklands?
Check mate (under Hans Niesund's terms).
#187 TTT
Oct 08th, 2012 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No checkmate titty boy, not even a threat to a pawn little tit.
Hwey tit, how come you momma let's you out loose without a leash?
Did you change you identity because you hate being referred to as a nipple? No worries, I thought you more of an aerola than a nipple. The nipple serves a purpose.
@188
Oct 08th, 2012 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Checkmate, since you can't even make an argument on topic about it. This has nothing to do with the UK or the Falklands and yet....
check mat.e
@189 Tobias largest hypocrite in the known universe. Just look at all the crap you post on every MercPress article.
Oct 08th, 2012 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@190
Oct 08th, 2012 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How funny, the hypocrite label upon Tobias (which I am not), this coming from a man who purposefully ignores all the crap, insults, racism, and scurril hurled at Argentines in this forum.
I have nothing to argue with Ghana seizing the libertad, I applaud them. With mercosur exporting 2.8 % to Ghnana and improting .06% from Ghana, I think they shake in their boots.....not. Later titty boy.
Oct 08th, 2012 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@191
Oct 08th, 2012 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Seriously, Tobias, I'm starting to think this has surpassed the normal rough and tumble. You seem to have completely lost the plot since your earlier Al Qaeda meltdown. Maybe it's time to just go out and drink some beer or something.
@193
Oct 08th, 2012 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am not Tobias. I am aware of him, we work “roughly” for the same goals, having been contacted by the same Undertaker, but please I ask you to stop. I am Mr. Gobakuwi and have been involved in this matter far longer than the gentleman Tobias, who apparently was here under the alias Truth Telling Troll. I get all that, just stop now.
@194
Oct 08th, 2012 - 11:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well Mr Gobakuwi you must forgive some if us if you sound worryingly like our dear friend Mr TTT.
Just a wee correction, the action in Afghanistan is NATO-ISAF AND Afghanistan AGAINST insurgents (what my Muslim friend calls their rednecks-Taliban).
Oct 09th, 2012 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0In the last downturn, when Brazil wanted to invade Argentina, the U.S. said it wouldn't support it.
Just a wee correction: the action in Afghanistan is NATO-ISAF -AND-- Afghanistan against what my Muslim friend calls rednecks-Taliban. Not an invasion.
Remember,
in the last downturn, (the Great Depresh), Brazil wanted to invade Argentina, and the U.S. said it wouldn't support it.
#194
Oct 09th, 2012 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0“having been contacted by the same Undertaker,”
Are you both expecting an early demise ? When is the funeral ?
@197
Oct 09th, 2012 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think he is trapped in the Matrix.
Undertaker is a code word in our organization. Irony is not a strongsuit amongst you here.
Oct 09th, 2012 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#199
Oct 09th, 2012 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So tittyboy.....you refer to the la campora lab as the undertaker? Makes sense....they kills brains there.
200 Captain Poppy
Oct 09th, 2012 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0NO, NO!!!! (stamp feet in frustration)
You have it ALL wrong!!!! (another little stamp)
“The Undertaker” is TTT /AGob little attempt at being ironic! They are going to make a funeral of the US & the UK!
Bet I am correct, but I hope not because it would put me down to their level of idiocy.
LOLs
Unless Ghana rules in favor of the RG's, I do not see them ever getting this vessel back. They are reffered to as being in a death spiral:
Oct 10th, 2012 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”The government has brought in capital controls to stem the flight out of pesos into dollars but it will fail. The chart looks like it could go parabolic and one-year forward rates are at almost 6 (I wouldn’t be surprised to see USD/ARS at 15).”
http://www.forexlive.com/blog/2012/10/09/argentina-nearing-death-spirral/
sussie, sit on this article and get use to it. Asslips kirchner is determined to destroy argentina single handedly
Just in ... the boat ain't going nowhere.
Oct 11th, 2012 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Regardles of how funny, or not, you may find this piece of news, I think it's time people stop repeating folklore information regarding Argentina and nazi money and refugees flocking freely into the country.
Oct 11th, 2012 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps you should read Ronald Netwon's book “The Nazi Menace in Argentina” to put thinks into perspective.
Two U boats surrended to Argentina after WWII and both were handed over to the US, one oft hem with crew included.
“Amazingly”, ALL nazi refugees that came to South America “escaped” from British or US prisoner camps and made their way here via the Vatican, who issued false documents.
Refer to Klaus Barbi in Bolivia and the Bolivian government of the time revealing the “mild pressure” placed on the country by the US to “accept” this “escaped” refugee.
For those that think Argentina is the only debtor you should perhaps read about Britain's indebtment after WWII and how they paid for it.
Not everything we are told is true, not everything we hear is founded.
Have we got an Argentine pretending to be Japanese now?
Oct 11th, 2012 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#204
Oct 11th, 2012 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where do you get these ridiculous names from . Have the guts to use something a bit more believable.
How about “he who speak with fork-ed tongue ”
#204 tittyboi.....if you really want argentina to have respect, first they need to start with self respect and stop the flow of oxygen to asslip kirchner. Then outlaw peronism. Thats just for starters.
Oct 11th, 2012 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hi
Oct 11th, 2012 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My name is Avasukon WaciBaccy and am a native of the Peoples Republic of Groyerown. I have followed the debate and can categorically state that these islands should belong to Iceland.
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