MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Judge Griesa warns Argentina on defying paying holdout bondholders
US District Judge Thomas Griesa told Argentina it should not even consider evading a recent ruling requiring it to pay bondholders who did not participate in two major debt restructurings after the country's 2002 default. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesI love how our judicial system is so relatively clean that even other countries use it. We're generous.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 05:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Impressive quick turnaround, looks like it's going to apply to the next payments too.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 06:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Result
I predict Argentina will refuse to pay any bondholders and try to blame malicious American court decisions.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 07:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's the beauty of this action, Argentina will have to pay ALL bondholders or Default, no wriggle room.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not long to wait now!
The markets still have 2002 phobia.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 10:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina deserves “ AB ” rating right now. !
This is probably turning out how Argentina wants, now they can default on all the debt and blame vulture funds and foreign courts who do not know the law.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Meanwhile a nice new hotel opens in Patagonia, pesos not accepted!
No worries, the rating systems will fall long before Argentina....
Nov 10th, 2012 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Did you lot see the article about S&P prooved common criminals?
You missed that one, didn't you?
;)
Argentina´s going to have to pay one day, or Argentina´s assets, ships, airplanes, etc. will be subject to all kinds of claims everywhere in the world, as it is already happening.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 10:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0The problem that Argentina now faces is if they lose this case, as is expected, they will have to pay the vulture funds or default.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really it's that simple.
(don't worry about ratings agencies)
Lol @ the ratings system failing before Argentina....
Nov 10th, 2012 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0And at the same time pigs will start to fly.........
Perhaps AG will stay payments on the bonds but it will be for all holders and that will be a technical default, but I suspect not.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0AG would be isolated completely if they defaulted, even a 'soft' technical default would prevent the banks from handling any AG money. Why do I say that? Who thinks that the American legal system is going to accept a slap across the face from AG, for that is what it would be?
Being in contravention of this judgement is not where ANY financial institution wants to be, anywhere in the western world (plus those marvellous people of Ghana). It just gives them too many problems, not the least of which is the CEO having to go to the court and explain his actions.
That is NEVER going to happen, even the thought of it will result in each and every CEO making damn sure any AG money his / her company or bank has stays where it is.
Why ?
Nov 10th, 2012 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has more International Reserves than foreign debts.
Your economical model is failing. US and Europe are running around like hungry hen not knowing what is edible.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 11:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0You lost your production, mainly to Asia, and you have no clue how to upkeep the service sector now that people are running out of, not money only, but salaries all together. Your pensionist are to face the biggest robbery in man-kind when you tell them all the money you legally withheld is *poof* gone, and your youth is useless, spoiled and has no intentions to reproduce.
Enjoy
“Why ?
Nov 10th, 2012 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has more International Reserves than foreign debts.”
Is it going to need them soon then?
---
It wouldnt surprise me if Argentina said “sod the lot of you then!”, pay nothing and not care at all what any ratings agency shows.
They've shown time & time again that they really dont care what the “outside world” and particularly bankers, think about them, or the doom mongerors about how their country will collapse.
And a part of me says “Yay! You go Argentina! Kick the bankers where it hurts!”
Of course the flip-side is they do default in some way and the economy DOES collapse, in which case an awful lot of people in Argentina will get hurt off the back of a CFK “vow” to avoid paying what is a legitimate (if morally bankrupt) demand of debt payment.
- - - -
And before anybody gets too high & mighty about “debts must be paid” just bear in mind that when a debt is so big it does NOT ahve to be paid, which is how Argentina got into this “mess” (perspective dependent) in the first place.
I wish I (caps) could borrow so much money that I could never pay it back, and then be able to write-off the overwhelming majority of it, keeping everything I bought with the original bulk.
Of course lowly “Individual citizens” are only ever allowed to borrow tiny amounts and those tied to their property so that the banks can call in the debts when they like and get fatter, richer and own even more of the world....
SO when Argentina turns around and says “Well you were the silly sods who lent us the money in the first place”.... seriously, you have to laugh a little and give them a bit of support...just for sticking it up the bankers junta
@13 - Guzz
Nov 10th, 2012 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I assume you are talking about Argentina. Remember when the Peronist government stole all the pension money? The same Argentine government that uses the Central Bank reserves as if it is their own account?
Argentina will have to pay one day. Tick tock, tick tock.
I predict another default, causing riots in the streets, as this time it won't just be the international community they're defaulting on, but the people of Argentina.
The way your beloved 'Dear Leader' is running the country, Guzz, I wouldn't be surprised to find Argentina being reduced to a similar state of Somalia, with armed gangs running the country, I mean, you're practically there aren't you?
14
Nov 10th, 2012 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You lot owe TRILLIONS!!
And you have the guts to talk about huge debts???
15
No LEP, “you” is you lot...
Guzzle, The things you talk about for EU, UK somewhat of the USA are 20-30 yrs IN THE FUTURE! The UK and USA can and will deal with the problems and figure out how to fix them. EVERYTHING you are warning us of we are aware the problem ARGENTINA has is that the future is NOW.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ANSES has been bankrupted, hard currency replaces with worthless RG bonds paying rates UNDER INFLATION with a DECREASING PESO, it stated this week it could not pay full pensions. THIS WEEK!
You can look forward to:
Massive Devaluation/Hyperinflation/Depression
and if you have to import wheat I will laugh and laugh
Argentina is fighting you lot, of course she will suffer. No one thinks you lot will abandon your right to vulture on the “3rd world” without farting aloud...
Nov 10th, 2012 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hyperinflation is an interesting word, don't overuse it though, or you will have to reinvent the language when you find yourselves competing with the Chinese for production...
@13
Nov 10th, 2012 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you saying that Argentina is a third world country? surely not even you could be that ignorant Guzz?
Guzz, China is failing due to corruption and an outdated political/economic model. I don't see it surviving the decade in its current form. They can barely feed their people and have the size of the whole population of the USA living in abject poverty. It won't last for long.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you not realize the USA exports 1T a year? We still have the largest economy in the world and it will stay that way for longer than you will be alive. Our population and economy grow year in and year out. We innovate which is something most other countries can't or won't do.
You make these ridiculous statements that maybe in your mind make sense but don't hold up to facts.
It is sad
I will laugh and laugh if Argentina has to import wheat from the USA..
19
Nov 10th, 2012 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Read history and stop making stupid comments. It has nothing to do with what I believe, it's the stamp you put on nations.
@21
Nov 10th, 2012 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now pay attention child, stop stamping your little feet, pin your ears back and listen; do you even know what a third world country is?
But of course, it's the stamp you put on the rest of the world that didn't share USA's views (with sidekicks) or Russia's views (with sidekicks).
Nov 10th, 2012 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you?
It was the hold out option to not get payed by Argentina when they refuse to participate in the restructuring of the old bonds. Tough luck and a little to late for wanting to take part. Maybe they will learn to become more accountable with the loans and be more conservative in their approach of giving tax payers money away to corrupt leaders, I am not buying the vultures cry. We all know too well how this debt was invented for mass consumption and it was explained to us by none other then the president of this institutions, Argentina should bring IMF into the courts and have the IMF show what we are being billed for, not the bills but the finished products IMF payed for, don't we want justice and accountability to come out of this?
Nov 10th, 2012 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
So is it going to be another default?
Nov 10th, 2012 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's the only important question.
24 Pirat
Nov 10th, 2012 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Once again, crying because you borrowed off the mafia and now they have come to break your legs. Oh the sad lament of the “wetback wail”!
“They have been waiting for years to get some money,” he said. “And they're going to get something.”
Nov 10th, 2012 - 03:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An adjudicator of law is not blind to outcome and who takes sides is worse than a traitorof secrets of the nation. He brings bane from within.
@27
Nov 10th, 2012 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spot on! The judge is clearly corrupt. How come no one else sees it that way?
He's about to go again. Hold on everyone. This will be funnier the second time around because he'll thinks he's learnt from last time.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0;)
Nov 10th, 2012 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The rule of the mob means not the mob holds reason's cane.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You guys have a lt in common with Petraeus' wife.... You bore people....
Nov 10th, 2012 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@12 Really? Thanks for that. So pay up. Thieves!
Nov 10th, 2012 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@13 Quite simple really. Your “economic model” has already failed. Whatever our youth is like, we have an advantage. Unlike yours, our country isn't filled with bending, butt-screwing, cock-sucking, murdering, transexual paedophiles. And this is your “model” for reproduction? The argie “wave of the future”. Faggots. What are the statistics? 41 million population. 20.5 cross-gender, transsexual, paedophile faggots. But credit must be awarded where it is due. Guzz - top anal invader, top buggerer, top child molester, top cowardly ex-pat, top faggot, top misanthrope, top paedophile, top queer, top dipstick.
@16 But our economy is so much BIGGER than yours. Try an example, dipstick: If your “economy” is worth 10 pesos and ours is worth 100 pesos, who's in the best position? YOU, teetering on the edge of starvation and total collapse? Or US, with an economy 30 times the size of yours, no history of default AND international trust.
@18 Looking forward to watching you DIE. Have you returned to your cesspit? I want to know that you are in argieland. Dying with the rest of the cowardly, paedophile, thieving, transsexual, faggot, war criminal argies!
@21 41,281,631 war criminals. Explain why war criminals shouldn't die!
@23 Definitions from a child-molesting, paedo, transsexual, faggot?
@24 You have a problem. An inability to comprehend. Try not to continue to avoid intelligence. Do what's right. After asking for the assistance of suitable countries, place your throat on the blade and shake your head. This is so easy. How could anybody reasonable and intelligent consider that they should not be executed for all their crimes? Rape, murder, genocide, unnatural sexual acts, theft. Who's in favour of executing all argies? Let's execute Guzzle first. Slowly. Genitals first. Then evisceration. Amputate feet. Amputate hands. Amputate legs. Amputate arms. And then... Chomp. An argie skull. Still “alive”! Problems?
“Or US, with an economy 30 times the size of yours, no history of default AND international trust”
Nov 10th, 2012 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0720 billion x 30 = 21.6 trillion U.K = $354,000
Trust is only but the gentlemen's anodyne desire to be respected when he is not. When one is trully walking with the nimbus of probity, trust is not needed.
32 Guzz
Nov 10th, 2012 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You guys have a lt in common with Petraeus' wife.... You bore people....”
LOL
You have a lot in common with Ol' Turkey Neck / TMBOA / KFC / The Harpy. No brains, no sense and lies, lies, lies!!
If a thought went through your head it would be the fastest trip in the world!!!!
Nope, Guzzy. The U.S. is the second largest in manufacturing in the entire world!
Nov 10th, 2012 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This story warms the cockles of me heart!! :)
Nov 10th, 2012 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Those who condescend from their pantheon at those beneath them, are neither above those beneath, nor could they really ever capable of surpassing them.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0oh for an ignore function....
Nov 10th, 2012 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0surfer, change back to scarfo, no need to confuse yourself...
Nov 10th, 2012 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 040 Guzzano
Nov 10th, 2012 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you decided if you're Argentine, Uruguyan, Swedish, or Danish yet? Are you a 50 year old ex ships engineer or still a 20 year old student living in northern europe?
If YOU want to convince people you aren't a deadbeat, you'll have to.... You'll have to... Uhm... You'll have to... Do something drastic......
Tool/Poppy/Briton
Nov 10th, 2012 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If YOU want to convince people you aren't a deadbeat, you'll have to.... You'll have to... Uhm... You'll have to... Do something drastic......”
I know :)
Clever, isn't it?
One day you'll learn enough English to come up with your own sentences...
42 Deadbeat
Nov 10th, 2012 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So I take it that you still arn't going to answr the question then?
Joe
Nov 10th, 2012 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tool is talking to you, think he needs some answers...
44 Guzz
Nov 10th, 2012 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know you're a few sandwiches short of a pinic but I think you'll find he was addressing the poster at 42. You.
You are a true deadbeat like Think and Dove. Congratulations.
That capital C in “Congratulations” makes me believe you are Ayayay now, he spams them all over the place.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Deadbeat...
I like this game, doesn't require much intelligence, I can see why you play it all the time....
Deadbeats...
Did not CFK state Argentina and the USA were great close friends,
Nov 10th, 2012 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0it seems not then...
Aww, this looks like a difficult choice for Argentina, back down on the 'vow to never pay vulture funds' or default.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Which will it be? Place your bets now!
Even the most baleful of your own is 10 thousand times the better person than the most innocent of foreigners.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Default or not default, that is the rhetorical question
Nov 10th, 2012 - 11:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For it is wisdom's knowledge that the joy of others failings makes the others more successful than one could ever be.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0so you admit argentina will never be sucsesfull then..
Nov 10th, 2012 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tangents work: but only for a time. Eventually you realize that you were better off going round in the circle, at least the circle respects the laws of nature.
Nov 10th, 2012 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the people's of the north love tangents.
Nothing wrong,
Nov 10th, 2012 - 11:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With,
Ring a ring of roses,
Or the M25.
Peace my human friend,
Back on Monday.
Night.
.
The United States is the largest manufacturing country in the world. Poorly worded, but you know what I mean. The total amount of manufactured goods in the United States is larger than even China. Just a little nugget....
Nov 11th, 2012 - 03:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Guzz, Would you consider yourself intelligent?
Nov 11th, 2012 - 05:34 am - Link - Report abuse 056
Nov 11th, 2012 - 07:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0All is relative, but compared to you, I'm a bloody genious... ;)
44 Deadbeat
Nov 11th, 2012 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0”All is relative, but compared to you, I'm a bloody genious... ;)“
Then, if this is the case, why did you have to be told by ”Joe Bloggs” at 45 that I was addressing you?
Intelligence indeed..........................LOL
Tool
Nov 11th, 2012 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Because you lot are the geniuses, fool-tool...
Learn your own language ;)
@34 Make a choice. Either you need a new calculator. OR, you need to mutate further so that you have enough fingers and toes. You can choose, freak!
Nov 11th, 2012 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@38 Ask yourself a question. If I'm sitting on the toilet, and you're “beneath”, who does my crap drop on?
@42 I have a sentence for YOU. 50 years. Hard labour. Followed by being “put down”, like any other unwanted animal. And then? Pig food. The pigs will be able to “guzzle”!
@49 Quite true! Any Brit, Falkland Islander or “real” American (i.e. from USA) is 10 thousand times better than any LatAm. Especially an argie genocide. (NB. ALL argies ARE genocides).
@57 In that case, you should know how to spell “genius”! Dimwit.
@59 No real need to say anything, is there? One simple 6-letter word and you can't get it right. Ever heard the saying ”Pull (self) up by bootstraps“? Could you try an experiment for us? Attach your bootstraps to those ”pee-nuts” between your legs. Attach other end to anchor point on c-130 Hercules. Jump. See how you will ascend to a whole new plane!
“@57 In that case, you should know how to spell “genius”! Dimwit.”
Nov 11th, 2012 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bloody priceless :))))))))))
Tell that to your toolmate :)))))))
@59 - Guzz
Nov 11th, 2012 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The plural of Genius is Genii.
You often slate other people on here for their lack of understanding of English grammar, when you are one of the worst culprits.
But back to the thread. Argentina still owes lots of money. According to the 'Dear Leader' Argentina has loads of money, so why not pay off your debts like you promised to do when you took out loans?
The world will respect Argentina far more if you do, all these hysterionics just makes Argentina look pathetic, childish and weak.
LEP
Nov 11th, 2012 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/genius
You too, learn your own language...
62 Arg has already paid in 2 canjes to the majority of these people.
Nov 11th, 2012 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0These kind of fondos buitres are speculating. They make lot of damage to many countries, not onyl Arg. Somebody, neutral should regulate this.
And this judge needs to jubilate. Look at his face, he looks tired.
“The world will respect Argentina far more if you do, all these hysterionics just makes Argentina look pathetic, childish and weak.”
Nov 11th, 2012 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For the fiends from beyond will profer blandishments such as this, for one to perform an action that will ultimately result in one's destruction, yet that this action will somehow be adulated by the foreign fiends.
When the reality of this world is, they want you to do this action to seek your ruin, your bane, and your annihilation. They masquerade this as good, but they know it is the antithesis, but it is in fact this which they seek, which will exult them and give them mirth.
Why hello there Tobias! Good to see you back!
Nov 11th, 2012 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Xect
Hello Tramontane fiend-urchin.
Nov 11th, 2012 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice turn of phrase! My dad always called me a urchin when I was a kid....
Nov 11th, 2012 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A near sage with keen discernment of the product of his amphigony. Were all as near-sages as him, the orb would be an empyreal place.
Nov 11th, 2012 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0sage and stuffing old chap,,
Nov 11th, 2012 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0sage and stuffing..
For your a no sage, nor a near-sage as the progenitor of 68.
Nov 11th, 2012 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0envy old chap envy.
Nov 11th, 2012 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even the most jaundiced of jealousies cannot envy that which is not there.
Nov 11th, 2012 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0oh envy is their,
Nov 11th, 2012 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0to those who do not belive the falklands are british,
cough cough.
For if you by now cannot reconcile yourself with my stated position on such a sacrosanct matter to you (inconsequential to me), then you have a defective noetic capacity.
Nov 11th, 2012 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0briton, Yankee, and other 'Good Guys”
Nov 12th, 2012 - 03:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0As with most of these threads, the posts were only significant up until Yankee@20.
The rest is trolls whinging, whining, and ranting.
Best ignored, let them bay at the moon...
LOL LOL
The U.S. has sovereignty over matters within. If the Arg gov does not like the U.S. judicial system, then it can take the enormous sums it banks in N.Y., over which this ruling adjucates, and move that money to their own banking system.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 04:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 14 Anbar
Nov 12th, 2012 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0interesting analysis - but I have a feeling you forgot the part about investments in Argentina, e.g. YPF to get enough oil and natural gas next winter, capital goods for the industry, medicine for life threatening deseases, the risk of having exported goods seized (+payment for ditto), ...
# 77 Ayayay
Nov 12th, 2012 - 09:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0if you have a suggestion to how this could be done, I am sure the Argentine government happily would cheat you for 1 million dollars for your advice.
No banker in the USA would risk handing over the money after judge Griesa's ruling - they would have to cough up with the money themselves, all $4,283.19 of them.
#14....Very interesting Anbar. There we mere citizens do have “caps” that limit what we can borrow, we can (at least in the USA) go bankrupt and wash the bank aways. Nations cannot. Maybe it is time to view caps AND a banktuptcy for nations.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We warn judge griesa that Argentina has more to gain than to lose if history can serve as the example. If anything the vulture will get what they payed for the result of a IMF and US scam.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think Argentina should demand 20.000.000.00 U$ service charge from Ghana courts representing the vultures arguing that moving a massive ship it a lot more dangerous and labour intensive then willingly purchasing troubled bonds, It all comes with the territory. Let's never forget that there is more then one way to skin a cat and where there is will there will be a way. Poor CFK having to face what Argentine corrupt men created decades ago, I don't care what anyone says this woman has ovaries the size of a bulls balls. Videla, galtiery, menem, duhalde, macri and every other Argentine man can't be trusted , Argentina's history can show us a lot regarding this matter. www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
pirate humnter....tell me, if MNL did not purchase the bonds, would argentina be p[aying the original bond holders back, who GAVE ARGENTINA the money? Or would they be refusing to pay them also if they refused reducing the principal?
Nov 12th, 2012 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@82 poppy
Nov 12th, 2012 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poppy , why bother? LOL
You will only confuse Pirat Humper using logic.
ALEX VARGAS doesn't use logic - how could he repeat his nonsense.
If any Brits here read some derogatory statements written in another article to one self absorbed, mal adjusted angry Brit, my apologies to the rest of the Brits as I know they are not all asshole like that one. I do get tired of him insulting me for American policies as I am personally responsible for the ones he personally does not agree with.
Nov 13th, 2012 - 01:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0I know Troy, anyone is a vulture that kirchner has to pay back, what's more, he is not even an RG anymore.
This greasy judge is poison, he must be highly reactionary or just corrupt, maybe even both!
Nov 14th, 2012 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And you well informed opinion is based on what particular facts? The fact that he ruled based on NY law and not argentine law, which changes like New England weather. I do not expect an answer as you never answered why you have never (lol yeah sure) been to argentina.
Nov 15th, 2012 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0@80 I agree. Gov ideally would work better if reflexive principles were applied-what's good for a lerson is good for a nation-state too.
Nov 15th, 2012 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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