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Venezuela plays the ‘US interference card’ suspends dialogue with Washington
The Venezuelan government said on Wednesday it has suspended a “channel of communications” with Washington as it escalates tension and polarizes public opinion ahead of elections to replace the late president Hugo Chavez. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWhy would Washington assassinate Capriles?
Mar 21st, 2013 - 07:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is about a diplomat named Roberta who responded to a reporter with, “Anybody could win, Capriles ciuuld be a very good president. But we [meaning U.S.] don't have favorites”favorites.”
Mar 21st, 2013 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is Maduri forgetting Chavez publically announced a favorite, Obama, in the U.S. election?
We're just so much more mature.
Bonkers as most members of the Venezuelan government are, you have to admit, it will be a very strange wind the day that the US isn't interfering in domestic South American politics ;-)
Mar 21st, 2013 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Venezuela is descending into fantasy land! Maduro is running scared and is inventing conspiracies.
Mar 21st, 2013 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The sad thing is that the Venezuelan public buy all this crap as a result of brainwashing during the Chávez years.
Sounds like a bi-lateral issue to me, as a Brit we couldn't possibly take a position on it and we will respect their defacto administrations. They should probably sit down and talk to each other peacefully.
Mar 21st, 2013 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0See how they like it!
But what about the petroleum products that Venezuela IMPORTS from the USA because they cannot refine them for themselves after Dead Man Now Finally Rotting sacked all the people who knew what they were doing and put the Military in?
Mar 21st, 2013 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I bet the bus driver does not even know that!
Venecuba is running scared...and it is so pathetic. I sincerely hope the people finally wake up to the horrors that have been inflicted upon them.
Mar 21st, 2013 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Vugguevise.....you are drinking the paranoia cool aid the the bus driver is handing out. Making a stament is hardly interring, but the chauffeur has to do something to unite the 75% poor electorate. If not, how will Venezuela support Cuba at the expense of the Veneuzlans
Mar 21st, 2013 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Obama send this vídeo to Capriles!
Mar 21st, 2013 - 11:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcm55lU9knw&nofeather=True
But Capriles do not understand portuguese. More one mistake: Venezuela stay in América, Obama, not in Ásia like Afeghanistan, Iraque, Palestine, Japan, VIETNAM, or China. Venezuela is a friend, Obama!!
Venezuela is right!
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 02:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Washington USA..... is poison!
@10sussie
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 04:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pure crap
#10 then stop selling us your crude and more importantly, stop buying our refined gasoline.
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 09:51 am - Link - Report abuse 012
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0you mean interference in SA politics is part of the US gasoline deal? If you need a backyard, try Canada.
@13
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Read my point at 6 and educate yourself.
These idiots cannot refine enough petrol because a number of their refineries are 'resting' due to the twats running them into the ground. But heh, they are the Military, so that's alright then!
14
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0I've read enough of your comments to know for sure that anything you come up with has little to do with education. You are rude, offensive and you have little respect for human life. Have a good day.
SO what was the “interference” that recently happened lil stevie?
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0More so......what is the connection between the politics and gasoline? Did you actually read what I typed? I will repeat myself:
If Washington is so poisonous, then stop selling crude oil to us and stop buying refined products, like gasoline from us. You meet 40% of you gasoline demand from huying it from the USA? You statement in #13 makes no sense.....unless that is South American sense.
And Stevie, Chris is speaking the truth....the Bolivarian commie countries to manage like idiots. Day is bright, night is dark and Ven, Bol and Venezuela act like managerial idiots. Fact is fact.
16
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I understand you don't appreciate Venezuela's gesture. A country that does not invade, torture and kidnap. You'll just have to accept the fact that not commiting these atrocities IS a possibility.
@Stevie
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As an independent observer,
This all sounds very bizarre - in this realm of fsntasy, wouldn't the USA have wanted to assassinate Chavez, and now, Maduro???
Why a conspiracy to assassinate Capriles?
Unless it was really orchestrated by Maduro to eliminate Capriles and discredit the US ?
Waiting to see what happens when the “smoke” clears, after the election.
Stevie....rather than digress, anwser the question I posed to you ot just shut up.
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes Troy, the USA most likely would prefer Capriles to win. If we were doing assassinations, chubby would have died long ago without the covert slip of cancer in his coffee.
Quite honestky, I would be fearing for my life if I was Capriles. To me that sounds like Maduro is looking to have his opponent killed and blame it on the USA. All South America......Blame the USA...blame Eurpoe...oh woe is me.
Answer my 1st question in # 16 if you can. Answer why you Venezluelans buy 40% of your gasoline from us in the USA? Why?
@19 poppy
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Quite honestky, I would be fearing for my life if I was Capriles. To me that sounds like Maduro is looking to have his opponent killed and blame it on the USA. All South America......Blame the USA...blame Eurpoe...oh woe is me.”
Captain Poppy
I think it is the unfortunate truth in many states in SA, any opposition candidate must knowingly enter the election fearingfor his life.
When one considers the personal wealth and power that the position of Head of State brings, the incumbents are not going to want to give it up.
Added to that, the past abuses they may have visited upon their rivals, and their control of the media, if they are usurped, they fear catastrophic exposure of their crimes, and harsh retribution.
Maduro has a lot to lose, in a continent where historically, a regime will persecute its predecessors as scapegoats and purge the bureaucracy of those who are not loyal. Argentina is an example.
Now that Maduro has already established in the minds of the people that there is a foreign plot to manipulate the election and the government, by assassinating Capriles, he is a marked man!
75% of the electorate there is in abject poverty, what the hell did Chubby do? He gave Cuba oil at the expense of the people of his own country.
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Capriles needs to be campaigning about opportunity not to be poor and live on handouts.
“75% of the electorate there is in abject poverty”
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a bunch of crap...
If Venezuela buys gasoline from USA, it must be because they need it, same reason USA buys oil from Venezuela. So?
22 Stevie
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If Venezuela buys gasoline from USA, it must be because they need it”
Well, that was a statement of the blindingly obvious from our only 'Citizen of the planet' But why do they need to buy it? The refinery infrastructure that Dead Man Now Rotting (DMNR) inherited worked very well until he dismissed the properly trained professionals operating the plant and replaced them with his own favourites from the military.
Stunning move that eh? The first refinery fire soon showed the fallacy of that belief. And it went downhill from there.
No western oil people will work in Venezuela, only the cowboy Russians but they have plenty of them in the country already who, together with the Cubans trained by the ruskies are running the health service!
Wasn’t it a mis-diagnosis of colon cancer instead of pelvic problems that did for DMNR? Talk about complete incompetence.
LOLs
Yes lil stevie you Venezuelans need it more than we need your crude. But we in the USA are not lying and telling stories to our public like your bus driver presidente. You have yet still not answered my question....What interference in your election? I ask a simple question to a simple man (I assume) and you go off in left field. Are you ADHD?
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Then why are you buying the oil?
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 12:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0When your Presidents speaks about how he expects Venezuela to hold free and fair elections, when his own nation holds rigged and unfair ones, it's interfering in Venezuelas elections. Obama should sort his own country and realize that he moved from a house to an apartment, he has no backyard, nor a front one anymore.
Poppy, Stevie isn't Venezuelan. I doubt he has been there and gets all his facts from a Chavismo newsletter by the looks of it.
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Facts he ignores because they don't gel with his indoctrination include:
* Venezuela has had more murders during Chavez's presidency than civilians killed in Iraq by the US invasion
* Venezuela is the kidnap capital of the world
* Other Latin American countries have reduced poverty more than Venezuela without oil wealth
* Venezuela has one of the highest, if not highest, inflation in the world at times
* Venezuela is broke even after record high oil prices and has a smaller sovereign wealth fund that East Timor
* Venezuela has taken massive loans from China to keep afloat
* Venezuela's most important oil market is the US
* The US' now imports less oil from Venezuela than it did 10 years ago and has replaced it with Mexican and Canadian oil
* Venezuelan infrastructure is crumbling - roads sink, bridges collapse and refineries blow up
* Venezuela has massive immigration from poor countries but very little population growth as educated Venezuelans pour into Colombia, the US and even Australia
Now which one is the fault of the US?
@25stevie
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 12:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0“When your Presidents speaks about how he expects Venezuela to hold free and fair elections, when his own nation holds rigged and unfair ones, it's interfering in Venezuelas elections. Obama should sort his own country and realize that he moved from a house to an apartment, he has no backyard, nor a front one anymore.”
Respectfully, Stevie, it sounds more like the US is asking for reassurance that they can support you and do business with you, without being criticised by other countries.
Venezuela appears to be taking a very unnecessary defensive stance.
Or, is it just 'posturing' by an election candidate to bolster his image?
That's what it looks like from here.
None of these troll SA supporters ever state where they are truly from. I know most do not even live in SA. The are a few I am sure of, but they are not trolls, except for one, Toby....lol now the Pope.
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 03:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0We had a Major League baseball player who went home to Venezuela last year and was kidnapped. Venezuela is a shithole.....my brother in law goes there on business a once or twice a year. It's unbelievable what he says about it.
We are importing less crude from them and there are importing more gasoline from us. I do hope Maduro wins.....better chance for democracy in the long run.
Anglolatino
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 07:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0*Lies, your statistics
*Lies, your statistics
*Hidden lie, maybe, but with Venezuelan oil
*Lies, your statistics
*Lies, your statistics
*Lies, your statistics
*Truth, and?
*Truth, normal reaction to higher oil-prices, remember Exxon
*Lies, only thing crumbling here is your credibility
*Lies, your statistics
Troy
Venezuela has hold more elections than any other country in the world during Chavez. International observers all agree on all of them being free and fair. In the same time, USA holds elections where observers aren't allowed in, not taking into account that they are few nations where a president can be elected without getting the majority of the votes. Add the fact that you have to be multi-millionaire or work their agendas in order to be elected at all. Call that fair and free if you wish, but don't point fingers towards Venezuela, that's just pathetic.
Poor poor Stevie
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The facts are out there if you look for them and are not fed them.
How much was the recent currency devaluation? And did you ask why?
Anglolatino
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are deluded, your lies are not “facts”, only lies of yours. No matter how many times you repeat them, they will still be no more than your personal little lies.
Devaluation is good, triggers currency wars.
@25Stevie
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0““When your Presidents speaks about how he expects Venezuela to hold free and fair elections, when his own nation holds rigged and unfair ones, it's interfering in Venezuelas elections.”
Please explain to me how asking a country to hold fair elections is 'interfering' in Venezuela's elections?
The US has no jurisdiction there, as we both realise.
I don't see how Venezuela is being 'forced' to do anything.
Venezuela is free to do what it wants.
If the US elections, in the US, are not to Venezuela's approval (or yours), how does that affect Venezuela, or the outcome of Venezuela's elections?
These are not rhetorical questions, I am trying to understand their reasoning and position, and why it makes you angry.
Thanks, I'll wait to hear your reply.
Troy
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just like you and me, Obama knows that Venezuela's elections are far more fair and free than the US ones. When he chooses to say what he says, it's with an agenda, it's not like he suddenly felt he needed to tweat his stance. In the past, USA had their dirty fingers in Carmona's coup attempt back in 2002. Fact is, USA and Spain were the only countries to acknowledge Carmona as interim President in those brief 47 hours that the coup lasted. The people put Chavez back into power.
This is only taking into consideration the most recent issues between Venezuela and USA. If you want, we can speak of Operacion Condor, Schools of America, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Chile, Paraguay, Brazil, Uruguay, Dan Mitrione, Henry Kissinger, CIA...
@Stevie
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Historically, that is interesting.
However, while I understand your frustration, how is the US “interfering” or influencing the Venezuelan election?
The US is not covertly backing Maduro, Chavez's 'choice', and a theory that the US had a plot to assassinate Capriles, so which candidate does the US support???
34
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The candidate you are looking for is called “instability”.
USA has always had their dirty fingers in SA politics, why on earth makes you think they stopped? As it is, the only ones that need to prove anything, is USA. They should prove they aren't interfering, starting by swallowing their comments. History, old and present, is proof enough
@35 Stevie
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How does asking for free and fair elections “de-stabilise” Venezuela and its election, in 2013 ??
Because the elections ARE free and fair, contrary to the USA.
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Only reason Obama would ask for that is to plant some excuses for future involvement. We've seen that movie before. Many times.
@35 Stevie
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How does asking for free and fair elections “de-stabilise” Venezuela and its election, in 2013 ??
ause the elections ARE free and fair, contrary to the USA.
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Only reason Obama would ask for that is to plant some excuses for future involvement. We've seen that movie before. Many times.
So if Maduro wins (which I'm hoping he does) then I'm guessing there was no interference?
Mar 23rd, 2013 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've yet to see any destabilisation in Venezuela.
Anyone else seen any?
Even Maduro's illegal seizure of power and usurpation of the constitution has not caused any country to say anything.
Maybe Maduro is the destabilisation that the US is plotting?
#29 lil stevie....add some factual proof to your statement that Ven has more free elections that any country in the world....choke cough lol.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 12:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0The USA has 50 states that has numerous counties, cities and town that are having local elections at any given time, not just elections at the national level. That's THOUSANDS of elections every year.
You sound like a little teen girl crying you lie...you lie...you lie.
As for observers, each state has the right to decide if observers come in and observe.....not the federal government.
One thing we have here in the USA is called “Burden of Proof”. It's unlikely you in SA understand the concept, but essentually if you make an accusation, you have the burden to prove it. The USA does not need to prove anything, especially to an insignificant flea like the workings of a Venezuelan bus driver, oops, I mean president. Well, at least being a driver, he will have the experience when he drives Venezuela over the cliff.
BTW.....claiming that the USA is trying to assassinate Capriles, hoping to instill fear the Maduro is actually going to kill him, that is free and fear elections.......yeah.....good old SA way of dictocracy.
@Stevie, Anglotino, Captain Poppy;
Mar 24th, 2013 - 01:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0@35stevie
“As it is, the only ones that need to prove anything, is USA. They should prove they aren't interfering, ”
@Anglotino
“Even Maduro's illegal seizure of power and usurpation of the constitution has not caused any country to say anything”
@41poppy
“One thing we have here in the USA is called “Burden of Proof”. It's unlikely you in SA understand the concept, but essentually if you make an accusation, you have the burden to prove it. The USA does not need to prove anything”
Ok, Merco-posters, what do we make of this?
“Foreign Minister Elias Jaua said the move was a response to “interventionist statements” by US Assistant Secretary of State Roberta Jacobson, who called for “open, fair and transparent” elections on April 14.”
or
“Jaua claimed that Noriega and Reich were “recruiting mercenaries” in Central America to carry out the plot against the opposition leader. Reich, a former US ambassador to Venezuela, denied any involvement in the alleged plot, denouncing it as “Maduro's latest lie.”
Capriles himself dismissed the accusations as a “smoke screen.” ”??
I still don't see how asking for fair elections is 'interfering' or 'interventionist'?
-Only Jaua mentioned 'interventionist', with no evidence of it.
-Only Jaua mentioned a plot to assassinate Capriles, with no evidence of it.
-Noriega, Reich, and even Capriles have denied there is any truth to the accusations.
- No country, including the USA, has criticised or 'intervened' in Maduro's handling of the last election or the suspension of the Constitution, despite great media and political controversy.
Lots of accusations with no evidence and no contemporary precedent of 'intervention'.
Sorry, Stevie, your conclusions don't seem to have been arrived at logically.
Venezuela is holding an election - why are foreign states obligated to 'prove' they will not interfere??
If CFK is accused of planning to paint Casa Rosada blue, by your logic, she must 'prove' it is not so!!
41
Mar 24th, 2013 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Venezuela doesn't have to proove anything either. Especially to an ex-empire in free fall.
42
Logic? This is not about logic, just have a look at history and you'll have your proof.
Venezuela made the accusation that you blindly believe. Of course, that is how your criminal system works also, accuse and not have to prove anything, just convict.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lil stevie mi chica, in the free world, historical actions does nothing to prove current accusations and charges, every accusations stands on it's own proof.....but that's a free world concept. What you are inferring is circumstantial evidence and typically is not allowed to be entered as evidence to convict someone.
So again, what evidence is there for the bus driver to support that claim........the statement of the US calling for open, fair and transparent elections?
lol
Where ain Eurpoe do you live lil stevie?
44
Mar 24th, 2013 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If USA is calling for “open, fair and transparent elections”, I'm sure it was autocriticism and nothing at all to do with Venezuela.
Do you always speak assumptuously without feeling the need to substantiate ANYTHING you say?
Mar 24th, 2013 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where again do you live in Europe?
It may have been indirect criticism when the Bus Driver stated “He hopes he can keep Capriles alive from the USA plot to assassinate him”
Really IF the USA was to assassinate anyone, it would the chubby chavos hand picked puppet, not someone that would side with the USA. Even and idiot could see and understand that.
Where again in Europe? Netherlands?
46
Mar 24th, 2013 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's far too ironic to discuss transparency and fairness of Venezuelan elections vs US ones with a yankee critizicing Venezuela. It would be like discussing human rights with you, or the respect of sovereign nations. Would make no sense whatsoever. You lot think that kidnapping and transporting political prisoners to be tortured in Guantanamo, is a “human right” of yours. Or that invading sovereign nations in order to steal their natural resources is “spreading democracy”. Be my guest to fool yourself. But just like your human right are flawed, so are your elections. In that sense, lets agree on that Venezuelan elections are different from yours.
No sense to a latin. Lets not digress here and stick to the article. We can go somewhere else and discuss that if you like, and my personal take and POV on it. As I digress, this I will tell you, there is a serious price to pay for the Twin Towers and Pentagon, ask bin laden: this is far from over. I have no tolerance for lice, nits and fleas of humanity.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In fact give me your tele # and I would be overtly excited to call and discuss the USA information extraction methods with you personally. I would be thrilled to discuss the unpublished methods. But that's another article. Do not be such a troll and change the subject when you get cornered like a trapped bottom feeder, or nit....ok?
No where were we? Proof....that is where we where....yes? And WHERE is it you live in Europe ....Belgium? Fear and Loathing in Belgium? Definitely not SA.
How about an email address? I will send mine back.
48
Mar 24th, 2013 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't criticize other nations when yours is the most anti-democratic, murderous one , based on thievery and living off other people's shoulders. You set the discussion, attacking other nations, claiming they do what history and reality shows your nation is responsible of. Then you defend yourself stating it's another discussion. It's not, stop pointing fingers and sort your own problems, they are bigger and far more than any others.
digress , digress.....end the discussion if you cannot keep up and stick to the article. You soumd like ll the latino's wah wah wah.....only no momma to run home to. You have two choices if you do not like my critiques:
Mar 24th, 2013 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 01-leave and shut up
2-stop me from criticizing
Stopping me is tantamount to Argentina making a British, self determined society Argentina's.
IT AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN LA MUCHACHA
So go on and further digress and change the subject. It is another discussion, give me your email or tele and we can discuss it.
BTW, I find it doubtful that you are a Spanish descendant that came and settlement South America and “usurped” the land from the natives and ultimately killed them off, now living in Argentina as hypocrites, I really doubt you are.
Again no proof to the bus drivers claim. I have lunch catch....good day mi nina linda
Guarani?
And you sound like every yankee I met. Critizicing the rest of the world when everybody can see that you are the ones commiting atrocities.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Say what you want, at the end of the day, YOU are the invaders.
Say what you want, at the end of the day, YOU are the ones torturing.
Say what you want, at the end of the day, YOU are the ones stealing resources.
Say what you want, at the end of the day, YOU are the murdering women and children.
Say what you want. We know.
And you sound like NONE of the Argetines I met, know and are friends with everyday.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0great you are correct...whatever you say
You are not even a south america let alone an Argentine.
And to say that about American's only proves you never been there, never met one and speak like a man with a paper asshole. Not even South American at all.
Adios lil wannabe. BTW, if you are looking for integrity, don't look in Argentina
CYA
@43stevie
Mar 24th, 2013 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Logic? This is not about logic, just have a look at history and you'll have your proof.”
Certainly, I agree. You don't seem to be able to link any 'intervention' to any motives, logicly.
How about 'historically'??
@42
“- No country, including the USA, has criticised or 'intervened' in Maduro's handling of the last election or the suspension of the Constitution, despite great media and political controversy.”
The events of Venezuela's last election, and the circumstances around Chavez's death, Maduro's suspension of the Constitution, allowing Chavez to assume office, though rumoured to be dead, were major topics of contention in the press.
Though very controversial, the USA made NO criticism or threat regarding the election, Chavez, or Maduro.
Surely, that would have been the time for them to 'intervene' or ' interfere' or at least, criticise, as a later pretext to 'interfere' in Venezuelan government affairs. Nothing.
So, historically? Nothing.
Why would they make a weak 'indirect criticism' now, when they had a great opportunity to object strongly and openly, just weeks ago???
Besides, as an objective observer, “we hope you have a fair and free election” sounds very tenuously connected to a possible assassination conspiracy to kill a candidate to de-stabilise a government.
And the only one saying that is Maduro, and even Capriles is saying Maduro is lying for political purposes.
To sum up:
- no logical reason, as you said
- no history - US did not intervene or interfere during the previous very controversial election
- no evidence of a US assassination conspiracy
- Venezuelan Capriles says that Maduro is lying about assassination and US interfering, for political purposes
Stevie,
I think you should give up on this one, it does not add up as true.
Notably, no other anti-US, pro-Mercosur Internet posters are supporting these Conspiracy-theories or your argument either.
Your arguments are empty and unconvincing.
Troy
Mar 24th, 2013 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your logic tells you that USA doesn't intervene because they didn't catch up on some rumour saying Chavez was dead.
I say look at history, USA need no excuses to intervene. Economical interests is more than enough.
The US missed nothing.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody else missed anything either - there was lots of discussion that the events surrounding the last election,the no-show of the winning candidate, and the suspension of Constitutional Law, were suspect and improper. Both in the Venezuelan Press and International Press.
The US said and did nothing, about economical interests or anything else.
The US currently trades with the existing Venezuelan government - why would that not continue??
What are you expecting, an invasion, or assassinations, perhaps ??
Troy
Mar 24th, 2013 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm expecting free, fair and transparent elections in Venezuela. And should USA intervene again like they did in 2002, I expect the Venezuelan people to react as they did back then.
USA said nothing about Dan Mitrione either, until we made that weasel squeak.
@stevie
Mar 24th, 2013 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“USA said nothing about Dan Mitrione either, until we made that weasel squeak.”
Ummm,
who is “we”?
troy, like most South Americans, they live in utter paranoia because of the incompetent leadership. They need to blame all their past failures on everyone but themselves. Perhaps there is something lacking, intelligence, on why South American and North America started the race on the same line and why they are all still 3rd world countries.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Troy
Mar 24th, 2013 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“We”, as an organization, are the ones who made the weasel Mitrione squeak, simple as that. The one that had the honour was Antonio Mas Mas.
@56 Stevie
Mar 24th, 2013 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hello!! Who is “we”?????
No reply. Perhaps you're busy, huh?
2002:
There is absolutely NO evidence that the USA supported, instigated, funded, directed, guided the attempted coup in 2002.
In fact, when I looked into it, just the opposite seems true.
US Intelligence was aware of it, before it happened, but there was NO military, intelligence, logistical, or financial support.
The US rebuffed invitations to join the coup, but instead, they said it must be done peacefully, by “constitutional means” without violence.
The only weak tenuous mention of the US,
- a Chavez aide, “recalling” that he “heard” at an OPEC meeting that the US approved a coup. Unsubstantiated.
- Admiral Molina, a Venezuelan coup principal, stated, “ I thought we had US support ...we agreed we could not allow a Communist government”.
What did he mean by “US support”? Cheerleaders? Non-interference??
Is that all you've got, Stevie? Hardly damning.
There is NO evidence otherwise.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d'état_attempt#section_4
The above Wiki article of MARCH 2013, has “issues” and the “neutrality is disputed”.
The recent March 2013 also plays up the part of Otto Reich, but still does NOT link him to any intrigue or conspiracy to assassinate Capriles or 'destabilise' the election.
Did you ( the “we” in your post) torture “Dan Mitrioni” to make him “squeal”??
Another wiki coursist...
Mar 24th, 2013 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://books.google.dk/books?id=-L8GtJY_J00C&pg=PA426&lpg=PA426&dq=mitrione+%22signs+of+torture%22&source=bl&ots=udxa3NzL3V&sig=_H5Sb4LsUSyTvtNJ57c-53qWRjA&hl=da&sa=X&ei=bnNPUYjWCtGL4gSbiYHoBA&ved=0CFkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=mitrione%20%22signs%20of%20torture%22&f=false
No Troy, we're not like them.
Thanks for the link, in German? Something else?
Mar 24th, 2013 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No matter, why don't you speak plainly, and tell me what you are getting at?
.dk Troy, .dk
Mar 24th, 2013 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you read the page on the site?
“His body showed NO signs of torture, binding or mistreatment”
Ok, I did Read some of it. I am on an iPhone just now, as I am travelling in the US, not near my desktop. It is a bit inconvenient.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know what your point is, or why you decided to try to intrigue me with a reference to making a man “squeal”?
Are you saying people were interrogated for info without leaving marks, or your 'organisation' did that to Mitrioni??
You are being too obscure. I don't know what you want me to take away from the reference?
Troy
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The fact that USA always interferes and never admits doing so, much less talks open about it. Mitriones case is one perfect example of what I'm talking about.
I'm saying that there was no need to torture for information. Firstly, the Tupas didn't torture any guest of the “prison of the people”, and there were several. a Brazilian banker, a British embassador, local corrupt public persons...
Secondly, in Mitriones case, we had a Cuban double agent that provided us with all information needed, pictures included. Mitrione didn't have to say anything. We offered to exchange him for the top leaders of the Orga, but USA wasn't interested. So instead, the Orga did the world a favour.
Without meaning to sound cynical, I suppose, being familiar with Mitrioli's techniques, it would have been an enjoyable irony, should he have been made to 'squeal' by interrogators employing his own methods, yes?
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ok, so that was the 1970's.
I would've thought that the Venezuelan's would have screamed to the rooftops if any real information was unearthed implicating the US, just like now.
Isn't that so?
66
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Many people wanted to apply his own techniques on himself, that I can assure you. Luckily, that wasn't the case, as one can't fight against an evil being just as evil. One has to be better, or just get back in line and shut up.
And of course there are no proofs on US meddling in Venezuelan elections. As you say, there would be an outcry should that be the case.
But you have to understand the mistrust. USA has shown over and over again that the DO meddle if the possibility present itself, and with that in mind, I can fully understand Venezuelas position.
While I can understand the mistrust, I can also see how such fears can be used to politically influence voters or public sentiment.
Mar 25th, 2013 - 12:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0It would be naive to think that does not happen.
I am sure that there is need for food, and that it would lack compassion for a society to ignore that need. However, a population that is in such dire need is vulnerable to manipulation, at a very basic level.
A good way to exert control for an unscrupulous government.
A benevolent government would be expected to reform the economy and educate the poor to give them employment and skills to make them no longer dependent.
I am .
I am afraid that governments like Argentina, with a corrupt leadership and a collapsing economy and social program's, are abusing the very people that are their base.
I do not agree that Communism works, but nor am I advocating abolishing social programs.
I would like to see a morally correct government that is responsible and professional enough to build a robust economy and a healthy environment for its people.
CFK is a crook. I don't know enough about Maduro.
Troy
Mar 25th, 2013 - 07:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0I read so much misinformation regarding Venezuela, you wouldn't even imagine. Instead of throwing pies, I suggest you go there, talk to the people and ask them about improvements the last 14 years. Ask them about education, health care and social advancements. Why do you think even Capriles is talking about the achievements under Chavez?
Do that, and I will do the same with USA, as I'm sure some of my perceptions are based on biased information.
Then we talk.
69 Stevie
Mar 25th, 2013 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Why do you think even Capriles is talking about the achievements under Chavez?”
But he is not is he? All he is doing is making the statement and it would be ridiculous to suggest that Dead Man Now Rotting had never achieved anything positive.
But overall he was a failure, and good riddance. I hope they get the bus driver because he does not have the ability, charisma if you like, to hold this rabble together and then some of the people will see for themselves what DMNR 'achievements' really were.
I just hope that it goes not descend into bloodshed when the reality sinks in but I cannot imagine the bus driver giving up without an armed fight.
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