MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falkland Islands’ dispute: Timerman to meet UN Ban Ki Moon this week in New York
Argentina this coming week will be meeting in New York with UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon, with the support of top regional officials to renew its long-standing demand that the UK sits to discuss with Argentina the Falklands/Malvinas sovereignty dispute. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesThis should be interesting.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 03:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0ditto
Mar 24th, 2013 - 04:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Gluttons for punishment.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 04:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0LMAO...One can only laugh at the “Insane” babblings of this “TImerman” weasel....Is he NOT aware of recent history concerning the UN and “Self detemination”..?Let us take just ONE example....Kosovo/Serbia. In light of Argentinian aggression and the totally unprovoked attack on the “Falkland Islands” in 1982, I think it's safe to say that there is no way in hell that these Islands and their population will EVER be turned over to what really amounts to a third world “Facist” state riddled with corruption and violence.“Fact”...Argentina has not now,nor EVER had any kind of an historical claim to these Islands and its way beyond time that the UN finally got off the fence and told them so.In the mean time,Argentina would be doing itself a great favour in finally accepting the wishes of 98.8% of these Islanders and “Leave them alone”...Finally as some of the more bombastic Argies have suggested...”They will again invade when ready.THAT my Argie friends would result once again in your total humiliation, and heartbreak on a scale that will make 82 look like a walk in the park.One would have thought by now that you would have learned not to underestimate the resolve of the Brits, as unlike the Argies... They say what they mean....and mean what they say...!!
Mar 24th, 2013 - 05:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0“People living under certain conditions should have a CERTAIN LEVEL of capacities to decide their own future”... Like the Sweedish population in Aland Islands that gained CERTAIN LEVER of autonomy, under Finnish sovereignty.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 05:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wee Timmerman as A Jewish Catholic should really concentrate on drumming up support with his Iranian chums for a jihad or a crusade against those unholy bandits in Stanley. He might even get Queen Crissy the title of Princess of Tyre Well she will need a bolt hole and probably needs a a retread also
Mar 24th, 2013 - 05:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0And when he tells you to get lost?
Mar 24th, 2013 - 06:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Or like Argies - who have a “certain level” of democracy !
Mar 24th, 2013 - 07:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why doesn't he address the problem of the indigenous peoples of Argentina who live under appalling conditions with little respect from the imported majority?
Mar 24th, 2013 - 07:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5
Mar 24th, 2013 - 08:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina won't give the Islanders ANY LEVEL of capacities to decide their own future, and the Islanders have made it clear there won't be ANY LEVEL of Argentine governance over the Falklands.
Typical bully, bringing his gang with him, why is it they always have a delegation with them?
Mar 24th, 2013 - 08:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5 Falklamd Islands
Mar 24th, 2013 - 08:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Åland Islands?
You go back to 1920 and a pre-UN adjudication? You do know what happened to the League of Nations don't you?
I prefer the examples of a CERTAIN LEVEL of capacity by these UN supervised referenda:
South Sudan in 2011
East Timor in 1999
Much more recent than a 93 year old decision by an organisation that doesn't exists any longer.
20 supporters from 172 members of the WIPU, very impressive!
Mar 24th, 2013 - 08:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's all academic anyway, because after next week, the UN will recognise the Referendum result and there is not a damn thing they can do about it.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 08:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5: Typical Argie calling the lands by the old name, Ahvenanmaa is nothing like the Falklands situation. The islands are very close to each country in comparison to the Falklands lying around 300 miles from Argentina. The islands have been almost continually populated, compared to the Falklands that had no indigenous population. It's debatable whether the people are even Finnish or Swedish as speaking Swedish doesn't prove things one way or the other, especially as it's Finland's second language. Lastly, Finland was under the Swedish crown for hundreds of years until Sweden got their arse handed to them by the Russians, and they made no claim to the islands until Finland had firstly gained their independence from Russia, and then waited until the civil war had finished. Basically, a cowardly moment of waiting until Russia had gone and Finland was at it's weakest, hoping that Finland wouldn't fight back under the threat of war.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0In the last case: yes, it's similar to the Falklands issue, because Argentina made no claim until the UK was at it's lowest point during WW2 and they thought the UK wouldn't fight back. Sweden and Argentina also sided with the nazis while claiming neutrality and continue to claim to be bastions of peace despite the rest of the world being fully aware of their bloody, cowardly history.
Please never compare these situations again, I'll make you look even thicker.
@14 DoD.... surely not ....one of cruellas cretins actually accepting that the UN does not, and never has, supported the false argentinian claim, which is based on failed governments needing a nationalistic cause to deflect a restless population from internal crisis.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 08:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Finally some sense of reality setting in? will this lead to the chop for Cruella and her cretins, maybe a one way airticket halfway only on the outward trip?
So Mr Timerman are you going to tell the UN the real facts as they are. Argentina claims that British forces destroyed their fledgling colony on East Falkland in 1833 after they had 'inherited' the archipelago from Spain in 1816. The UK's claim however goes back to 1765 and the British Government in 1829 clearly warned Buenos Aires of its ownership, and to stay away. Argentina invaded the Falklands in 1982 but were thrown off by a British Task Force.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Look at the dates they tell the story not the lies you are going to tell.
How many times / years will it take to finally get th emessage into the heads of corupt Argies that the Falkland Islands are not theirs never was and never will be period. They say they want dialogue but we know what that means to them eventual ownership of my home. Start looking after tour own people like decent human beings and leave us to live in peace you barbaric morons.
@16. Putting aside once more the childish name calling, the UN does not, and never has, supported the Argentinian claim. The UN recognises it. though, hence the ongoing request for negotiations and the offer of UN SG's good offices for mediation.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sadly though, good sense has now prevailed and I declare the statement that next week the UN will recognise the Referendum to be truly cretinous. Fortunately I borrowed it from one of the real cretins on here.
Shylock Trimmerman, the newly reformed Jew-papist, is going to go to the UN, again, and tell them how democracy is illegal and neo-hitlerist expansionism is the true path. I'm sure they'll get a rousing applause from their fellow latinos for expression such nauseating views.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0It truly makes one want to puke to watch this, when one thinks about the original purpose of the UN.
@5
Mar 24th, 2013 - 09:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Re: Aland
The League of Nations recognised Finnish sovereignty and concluded that a change from the status quo could upset peace and international order. The status quo in the FIs is UK administration and the Argentine constitution forbids the use of force to retake them. Thus applying Aland to the FIs means a finding in favour of the UK. It would be for the ICJ to determine sovereignty but Argentina knows it would lose.
The LoN also sought to reward Finland for being a bulwark against the Soviets. But what current use is Argentina to the international community. In fact Argentina is seen as an international “problem” country in SA, not like its neighbours Brazil and Chile that are seen as proper countries on their way up.
Next, the LoN trusted the Finns to honour their obligations, whereas one only needs to look at 1982 to know what the future would be like for the FIs under Argentine rule.
Finally, in 1922 self-determination didn't exist in law. With the formation of the UN after WW2 it now does.
Does anybody really believe this infantile Malvinas mythology would still be twisting knickers if Argentina were Sweden or Finland?
Mar 24th, 2013 - 09:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0(18) Mr. McDod
Mar 24th, 2013 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0When will you ever learn.....
Don't waste your irony on them Turnips...
They totally lack any sense of English humour....
21: You say that but there are still people shouting about for the return of Karelia and Viipuri even though it's full of Russians now.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0(5) Islas Malvinas
Mar 24th, 2013 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Åland Isles are a very good example of how to resolve a sovereignty conflict where a population is involved.
Anuseful and quite acceptable example to follow in the “Malvinas Isles Issue”.
Regards from Chubut
El Think
24: Except it's absolutely nothing like the Falklands issue.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0I do not know about that, refering to your comments as cretinous, now that's
Mar 24th, 2013 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Funny!
(5) Islas Malvinas
Mar 24th, 2013 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0And, I'm happy to say, an example that is being seriously studied and considered by many individuals and organizations involved with the “Malvinas Isles Issue”.
If and when something like the “Åland Solution” goes through in the South Atlantic, I'm positive that quite a few Kelpers will regret not having taken the FCO's “Money and relocation in New Zealand” offer.
Future will tell....
27 Think
Mar 24th, 2013 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0You say:-
Future will tell....
I say:-
The past speaks volumes.....
The rest of the world is just waiting for the economic collapse of Argentina ( and it is coming, dear Think-me-not ) and when it does, The Falkland Islands will be the LAST thing that Argentines think about, they will be too busy in their caves, trying to light a fire.....
@24 Another example is the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, where a population declared independence under the protection of a sympathetic and militarily capable state. The British Kingdom of the Falkland Islands has a ring to it.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Another example is Wales, a principality within the United Kingdom with devolved competencies. I make myself available to Her Majesty to create me Prince of Falklands if it pleases her. No need to actually live there, obviously. Or a Duchy perhaps.
I see a flaw or two. The Isles of Åland solution is not at all acceptable to the older generation of British People and the other status changes would be unacceptable to the current Argentinian State, presumably. Best those individuals and organisations (internationally recognised presumably) get back to the drawing board.
@27 Think. I live here, I can assure you that we will not be going anywhere! We enjoy living here, so why should we move? The more you piss us off, the more hardened we become. So hello from over the water, we are not going anywhere!
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0@27
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's true that Court judgement in the Aland islands case put the principle of territorial integrity above that of self-determination. This isn't terribly surprising, since the principle of self-determination had not yet been enunciated, while Finland was able to show valid legal title to the islands in questions.
This is hardly a good precedent for Argentina, since as we have seen repeatedly, unlike Finland Argentina is completely unable to make a serious case that the Falklands were ever part of its territory. Nor can it, as Sweden was able to, invoke the wishes of the inhabitants in its attempt to overturn the status quo.
And last but not least, the Aland case involved two countries which were willing to let an international court decide the issue, and respect its judgement. Argentina's track record in this regard is not encouraging.
But why not go ahead and apply to the court anyway? Even Thatcher said back in 1983 that the UK would respond positively to any such move. I'm sure Ban Ki-Moon would also support such a move. It would at least give him a respite from finding Hector Timerman on his doorstep every time he opens the door.
@26 That's funny because you are the cretin that said it.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2012/12/17/in-january-begins-third-phase-of-argentine-landmine-clearance-in-the-falklands#comments
42 reality check (#) Dec 18th, 2012 - 08:03 pm
Gollum will be disappointed, surely its Args last throw of the dice. Ban Ki Moon can't make resolutions on his own anyway. Britain and Falkland Islanders won't talk about sovereignty. Arg won't attack whilst Astute Class lurks offshore. It's all a stalemate, with Islanders and Britain waiting expectantly for Arg to go down the plughole quite soon. Seems Botox woman etc want to return Arg to third world and are making a pretty good job of it.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 024 Think-me-not
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Åland Islands case has been touched upon on this forum and now I think about it, I think that the idea has got legs.
Yes, the more I think about it, the more I think it would work.
You see, applying the same process to the “Malvinas Isles Issue” then the Argentines living in Argentina would gain a CERTAIN LEVEL of autonomy, under Falkland Islands sovereignty.
That way, The Argentines would be granted “the capacities to decide their own future” free from corruption and the bullying from their own government and “fat boy” Maximo would be carted off to a health farm and kept there until he lost 15 stone.
(32) Mr. McDod
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please don't slap them Turnips so hard :-)))
Remember, they have feelings too.
Doveroverdover : I claim the right to be Prince of the Falklands , and declare you to be a pirate and a usurper .
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 01 ) I'd heard of the Falklands before you did .
2 ) I think I may have bought a Falkland Islander a drink once , but can't remember .
3 ) Living on the south coast , I am closer to the FI than you
4 ) My wife is catholic , therefore the Pope would support my claim .
So there . Beat that , pirate .
Oh Sir Jeffrey. You really are talking through your arse these days.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is pretty much crunch time for the Argentine “case”. If Ban Ki Moon declares the referendum illegal (unlikely) then the UN's credibility is blown out of the water (ie this is a clear case of self determination - a key tenet of the UN Charter). If he asserts the islanders' right to self determination then they can bang on about [non binding] C24/ 2065 etc as much as they like but this will trump the lot
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0I expect a woolly statement from Moon but the subtext will be to tell Argentina to stop acting like a spoilt child and face the realities of life in the 21st century. Watch this space!
(36) Usurping Pirate
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0I claim the right to The Malvinas , and declare you to both to be Pirates and a Usurpers .
1 ) I'd certainly heard of the Falklands before you two could even hear .
2 ) I know I have bought a Kelper a drink too many.(Not at all difficult)
3 ) Living in Patagonia , I am closer to Malvinas than you both.
4 ) I'm a free man, therefore I could even become Pope .
So there . Beat that......, Pirates .
#39 You Scottish slimeball. One more vomit from you and you could face someone like this. http://www.flickr.com/photos/18089623@N00/8491114214/
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0@32
Mar 24th, 2013 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice quote, early days yet.
When all is lost for the Argentine economy, UK should set up a loan agreement contingent on the renouncement of all aggression towards the Falklands and a clear statement of Sovereignty with The UK.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In just a little while they will be cold and hungry and will sign anything for a few pesitos.
It is easy to get people without honor to do just about anything for few $.
Doing the same thing over and over again Timerman? Expecting a different result? Hmm, wonder what Einstein would have to say about that?
Mar 24th, 2013 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@40:
Mar 24th, 2013 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do you think this troll is a Scot?
It does seem Hector is stuck on repeat lol
Mar 24th, 2013 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have no doubt Argentina’s colonial ambitions will given short shrift, it should be a quick meeting.
50/1 says that whatever BKM says and Timerman repeats, are two completely different things altogether.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@15 Boovis
Mar 24th, 2013 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice one. The argentine government had stayed silent on the falklands for 91 years in the light of the 1850 Treaty of Settlement. They stayed true to that treaty then threw it all away when Britain fought on virtually alone against Germany.
Interesting times ahead. Mr Moon must stay true to the values enshrined in the UN charter. He's already stated Britain has broken no UN resolutions. He's already stated in some strange fashion about 'capacities' and he's already said he's not happy with the current operational style of the UN C24....I do not think for one moment he'll turn around and say “Malvinas son Argentinas”!!!!!!
You know I think that enobling our commander Quackover Dover as Duke of the Jason Islands might not be such a bad I dea Being a seafaring gent of classical bent he could even have his own navy whose sailors would of course be known as arginauts. Might be a good place for him as the isles are a zoo anyway and he might feel at home there
Mar 24th, 2013 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or how about making Tristan (you know, that fella from Chubut who is always chasing Isolde) the Grand Panjandoram of Lafonia?
But think first O Scandahovian. Before you construct your palatial hovel you should really ask those nice people down at North Arm VERY POLITELY if they well sell you electricity from thier smart new wind turbine
(48) redpoll
Mar 24th, 2013 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
”How about making Tristan (you know, that fella from Chubut who is always chasing Isolde) the Grand Panjandoram of Lafonia?“
You got it all wrong, my angry Yorugua friend......
Look who's chasing who...:
”(39) lsolde @36Think, You are a sneaky little hombre aren't you?
l'm impressed. Very close, bit lower.
And l like viejo verdes.”
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/01/20/argentina-praises-immediate-support-from-the-region-in-the-falklands-dispute#comment85703
Lafonia would fit me well, though.......... Prime horse riding country.
I claim the right to e prince of the Falklands
Mar 24th, 2013 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) I've actually been there
2) I've definetly brough an islander a drink admittidly in the UK and after making crossroads joke
3) most importantly I can access a general purpose machine gun and know more or less how it works.
4) I have a flag as eddie izard will explain thats the most important part in global domination
5) I have the flying spaghetti monster on my side and it likes pirates
6)so get off my land :) Usurpers
Im sure that the Argentine Government will look at and attempt every single possible avenue towards getting their paws on Falklands Islands, historical precedent or not.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Their success in the future will no doubt mirror their success too-date.
- - -
Oh Lookie - its the DoDyThunk sock-puppet show time! (again).
ThickoDoDge will need to fight over who is the bigger Queen, certainly not Prince or any other male type.. oh, except possibly eunuch. You can see them fighting each other in front of the mirror whilst screaming in different voices and adjusting rubber pants. (Shortly before the staff do up the arms across the back again)
Unlike most on here, I don't agree that the ICJ is the correct model to satisfy this dispute, in essence Argentina would have nothing to lose, as even if the judgement went against it, it would ignore it and continue to say that “the west” and it's “puppets” are stealing from Argentina.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would only support such a move if there was genuine “skin in the game”.
Britain would agree to taking the case to the ICJ only on the grounds that if the court found that the Argenint case was spurious and their actions during the past 30 years illegal, then the “Nation State” of Argentina be perminantly dissolved.
The government would be held for crimes against humanity “the attempted ethnic cleansing of the islands” in the Hague, and the various provinces of Argentina distributed to other South American countries, including a homeland for the Amerindians in Patagonia.
Paraguay, Uruguay, and Chile get first choice followed by Brazil, Peru and the Falkland Islands whom would get Tierra del Fuego.
An practice of “being Argentinian” or “promoting Argentine behaviours” e.g. Corruption, lying, thieving, dishonesty would be punished by a perminant UN peace-keeping presence in the independent international city of Buenos Aires.
Timerman will claim a great victory; purely for propaganda purposes, just for the gullible folks back home but the reality will be the meeting will end up just like his London trip - a complete farce.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I notice there is discussion about precidents for claiming sovereignty. There appears to be a number of different precidents:
Mar 24th, 2013 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) self determination for independence
2) maintenance of the status quo
3) self determination for alignment with another nation state
4) merger or dissolution
I find absolutely no precident for any territory being FORCED against its will to be RULED by a DISTANT ROGUE NATION which has no historic, moral or geographic claim, and only two lots of two month invasions in 1832 and 1982...both resulting in death and dishonour.
Recently found this on the internet from 1995
Mar 24th, 2013 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'The recent announcement by President Menim that the Falklands will be back under Argentine sovereignty by the year 2000 has not helped.'
I've just had a look on the World Inter Parliamentary Union website and can find no mention of the Falklands.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.ipu.org/english/news.htm
Not only that but there was nothing included in any of the agendas as an emergency item:
http://www.ipu.org/english/news.htm
After his Harrods and Fortnum and Mason trip I think Gollum is just going to NYC to top up his shirts at Maceys. He knows he hasn't got long now as the creditors close in on Arg. Having failed to get Pope Belgrano on board the slimy duo are getting a bit desperate. I am looking forward to the disappointment. No doubt he will twist and spin the BKM statement for all its worth but all he will get will be the usual calm implacable put down from W Hague and co.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So Timmerman is getting a “favourable opportunity to expose the reasons of the illegality of the referendum.”
Mar 24th, 2013 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good
Because in the interests of fairness the British Government can then request a meeting for the FIG with Ban Ki Moon to put their defence in person. If the stooge Diego Morejón Pazmiño is also there then all the better, as Ban Ki Moon will see for himself how this horrible 'man' treats the people he is meant to be helping in his role as president of the Special Committee on Decolonisation.
Great potential photos for the FIG, and a total meltdown in BA. Bring it on.
@39 How about this? To “overtake” your “claim”, I claim the right to cut off your balls, slit your belly so that your intestines slither onto the floor AND cut your throat. Do you have a brother? A gateway needs two heads.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Free”. In your dreams. Ever voted in favour of “real” democracy? How about “real” self-determination? What's the going rate for vote? US$50? AR2,000 pesos? Or about 10 pence. Argieland is shit. And everyone in the UK knows it. What do you do with shit? You bury it. Or you flush it away to be buried elsewhere. Or turn into fertiliser.
@42 and you think the people in Argentina would allow such an agreement?
Mar 24th, 2013 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Think, So when you going home to support your country or is it still not safe for you to do so??? poor poor Think Squating in Northern Europe because Argentina is not a good enough place to live in.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@61 andy65
Mar 24th, 2013 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I assumed Think was in Europe carrying out military work for the UN.
I often wondered if his UK colleagues realised what a cock he is.
The population of the Falkland Islands and the British Government are no fools. Since 1982 the colony has been gradually dismantled and a large measure of self-government introduced. In 2008 the islanders signalled their decolonization by discreetly dropping the term “colony” from the preamble of the revised Constitution.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So the UK can claim, in regard of the Falkland Islands, that it has complied with UN Resolution 1514, which seeks the end of colonialism in all its forms. The UN Secretary-General recognized that when he stated (interview with Javier Borelli, Tiempo Argentino 11/11/12) that he believed that no permanent members of the Security Council had violated “relevant resolutions”. At no time in the interview, however, does he give credence to the notion of a referendum and a right of self-determination for the Falkland Islanders.
.
Furthermore Ban-Ki-Moon and the observing world know that the Falkland Islands remain a form of colonialism, in so far as the territory was seized from Argentina in 1833 and administered as an outpost of the British Empire for 150 years. UN Resolution 2065 (XX) Question of the Falkland Islands/Malvinas (1965) concerns itself with the disputed sovereignty of the territory and calls upon the two parties, the UK and Argentina, to find a peaceful solution to the problem. Ban Ki Moon inferred strongly in the interview that Resolution 2065 is yet to be implemented when he called on the British Government to accept the offer of his good offices and enter a dialogue with Argentina
Good luck Mr. Timmerman!
Think is in Scotland, he speaks the lingo and carrys a chip just like DOD = same thing.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@63
Mar 24th, 2013 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He does not need to, the right is not conditional as you would have the world believe.
39 Think (#)
Mar 24th, 2013 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Would I be right in saying you once resided on the Islands and it all went wrong for you so you deserted to become a bitter disapointed person who is still angry because you could not get what you wanted. That could explain buying a drink for an Islander. So you acknoweledge that Falkland Islanerd exist. Could you please pass that onto CFK and Timerman because they seem unaware we do.
@63
Mar 24th, 2013 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Except of course the islands weren't “seized from Argentina in 1833” at all.
This statement is the basis of the entire fallacy.
Argentina didn't exist in 1833, at that time some of the land which is currently Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia and Uruguay was called the United Provinces of Rio Plata existed. But Patagonia certainly wasn't part of theis United Provinces nor was any land with 1000 miles of the islands.
So, nothing was seized from Argentina.
Nothing was also seized from the United Provinces, whose entire history on the islands amounts to 60 people for 60 days in 1832. These 60 people were warned prior to their arrival that they would be evicted if they attempted to usurp the islands, and only had time for a bit of mutiny, a murder and rape before their eviction....hardly seizing by any measure.
So that fallacy is easily dismissed.
As you indicate, the UK is in full compliance with BOTH 1514 and 2065.
It is Britain who ensures that the people of the Falkland Islands have the right to self-determination and respects the interests of the islanders ....1514 TICK.
It is Britain who ensures that the dispute remains peaceful, as the Argentine Defence Minister confirms...if it wasn't for the British defences, Argentina would seize the islands....2065 TICK
It is Argentina who have broken both resolutions by denying the right to self-determination and attacking the islands in 1982 causing the deaths of 1000 people.
Job done...
UN resolution 2065 is dead and was killed off in 1982 when Argentina decided to settle its sovereignty dispute by its illegal invasion of the Falklands. Asking the UK to honour resolution 2065 is like Hitler asking Chamberlain to honour the 1938 Munich agreement in 1940. It is dead. Ban Ki-Moon confirmed on 12th November 2012 that the UK was NOT in breach of ANY 'relevant' UN resolutions over the Falklands. There is no requirement for the UK to talk to anyone in Argentina about Falklands sovereignty.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@68
Mar 24th, 2013 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please keep up...1982 wasn't Argentina it was the Junta..completely different.
According to the Malvinistas things that Argentina DID do in living memory must be forgotten, but things that Britain DIDN'T do 180 years ago must be recompensed.
It's the same weird logic that says
The Islanders are an implanted population but Argentines aren't.
Self determination applies to all the Americas except the Falklands.
10,000s Ameriindians don't constitute an indigenous population but 55 militia present for 60 days does.
UN resolutions calling for a peaceful resolution means Argentina can invade but must also have sovereignty.
.....and so it goes on and on and on.
Have we not heard enough from these spanish colonialists. As much as they threaten, provoke and rattle away with that rusty old sabre, it's all for nowt.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are out of the game, it's over.
Think. Is your real name Alex Best?
Mar 24th, 2013 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was game over on 14th June, 1982. Only they are to stupid to realise it!
Mar 24th, 2013 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Does anyone wonder if this is just another smokescreen given the economic catastrophe Argentina is experiencing thanks to the increasingly bizarre policies of CFK's government and do they not also have to submit an answer regarding the proposed bond holders payment scheme before the end of this month?
Mar 24th, 2013 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bets on Argentina's position with the so called 'vulture' funds?
Be sure to mention your illegal blockade too.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only legitimate reason for Timmerman to visit Mr Moon is Mr Moon has heard that Timmerman's rendition of the The Ketchup Song is pretty good and wants to hear it for himself:
Mar 24th, 2013 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48OCiN1dki8
(64) CaptainSilver
Mar 24th, 2013 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not inScotland, I don't speak the lingo but I certainly have a soft spot for that wee Country.
(66) kelperabout
No, you would not be right in saying Ionce resided on them Islands......
(71) redpoll
No, my real name is not Alex Betts, if that's what you meant to ask.
@76 is your real name Alessandro 'bitter and sour because none of my family or legitimate children talk to me' Betts? You should just own up.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@76 is your real name Marcelo 'I don't live in Argentina because it's a horrible place and cannot even put up an argument that stands up in an internet forum' Cohen? I think we know it is.
Think is getting rather upset maybe some comments are not with his agreement. So we have established who you are not and never done. So why are you so anti the Falklands. What actually have we done to so upset you. Don't say squatting. That word is getting like you rather stale. Given that we Islanders never took anything from Argentina because the Islands belonged to Great Britain does make one wonder why THINK wants to drive us out of our existance. Have you ever been threatened of loosing your identity your home and your Country. Oh sorry I am forgetting you don't have a Country because history shows it actually belonged to others before your lot took it. Sound familiar. Still intrigued where you bought drinks for Islanders. Could be quite an interesting story don't you THINK.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are a few minor details you all seem to overlook about the Åland situation:
Mar 24th, 2013 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) Sweden and Finland are friendly neighbours, rather than bickering neighbours
2) In common with all the Nordic countries, citizens of one country enjoy the full rights of citizens in the other .. pretty much like the situation between the UK and the Republic of Ireland
3) Both Finland and Sweden are parties to the Nordic Union, the EU and Schengen Agreement
4) The set of circumstances that gave rise to to original problem have long-since been resolved
5) Swedish has equal status with Finnish as an official language of Finland
@15 Boovis You seriously need to relearn your history is you think Sweden sided with Nazi Germany, either actively or passively. In fact, it is safe to say the Britain wouldn't have survived through to the US intervention had it not been for supplies of Swedish roller bearings and ball bearings.
This is becoming so boring, I can just see Ban Ki Moon's eyes glazing over when they start spewing out the same old bullshit. They should take the Syrian rappateur from the decolonization committee to lecture him on human rights too.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0so= SUNDAY PANTO TIME.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina this coming week will be meeting UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon
The answer will be NO
On Tuesday they meet the North Koreans,
Wednesday the Iranians
Thursday-china
Friday-Russia
Next week, the OAS , Nato , EU , And the UAU,
Followed by turkey the Arabs , Israelites , Syrians , Iraq , brazil, Mexico,
The Caribbean islands , and Aid for the poor,
Next month CFK has meetings with , aid UK, red nose day, argentina in need,
And the worlds losers federation.
And they all say NO,
Then, she starts it all again, with a meeting with the UN , the pope,
And the argentine freedom fighters,
All bullshit is it not,
But why then is it always CFK and her government that drops it,, then steps in it,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Conclusion
The Falklands freely democratically choose to remain British,
And unless CFK grow a pair of balls and invades,
Then they will remain British,
Full stop, pronto, , savvy.lol.
.
lunch time..
@79
Mar 24th, 2013 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who gives a shit about Aland anyway. What has Aland got to do with the FALKLANDS? You Tart
@82 golfcronie
Mar 24th, 2013 - 07:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did I start the Åland discussion? No, so save your banal “tart” comments and go swivel on that sad little shrivelled excuse of a brain of yours.
HT: Mr Moon I am here to protest about the illegal referendum
Mar 24th, 2013 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BKM: Illegal? How so?
HT: By Argentine law and the Malvinas is part of Argentina
BKM: Part of Argentina? why is that?
HT: because it was usurped in 1833?
BKM: Usurped? how so?
HT: the British arrived and evicted the Argentine authorities?
BKM: Argentine authorities? Which ones?
HT: The 55 crew of the Sarandi under Pinedo
BKM: the crew of the Sarandi...when did they arrive?
HT (sweating): November 1832
BKM: I see, under Pinedo you say, he seems a low rank for such a venture
HT: they were under Mestevier
BKM: and what happened to him exactly?
HT: they mutineed and killed him and raped his wife in front of their children
BKM: I see, tell me more about the other 55?
HT: Well, some were deportees, some were hired mercenaries, some were vagabonds...
BKM: ok, and none had set foot on the islands before November 1832
HT: er No
BKM: and none were in any way harmed by the British
HT: er no they weren't
BKM: And the British had a prior claim, that you knew about before you sent the Sarandi, but you ignored that right?
HT: Yes
BKM: And Argentina invaded the islands in 1982 right? Costing 1000 lives?
HT: No, that was the Junta
BKM: But 1832 was Argentina...
HT: Not really, it was the UP that ignored the British claim, not us, but it was Argentina that was evicted
BKM: you are full of shit aren't you?
HT: yes, but can I have the Malvinas?
BKM: not really
HT: but we've bribed the c24 and tried to have it filled with all the nations with appalling human rights records
BKM: I spotted that..but they are a bit shit too aren't they
HT: CFK won't be pleased
BKM: it's one of the jobs of the UN to ensure fascist autocrats aren't “best pleased”
HT: can we have the Malvinas...
HT: can we have the Malvinas..
PMSL!
Mar 24th, 2013 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina's entire foreign affairs policy encapsulated in a single conversatino.
84 Monkeymagic
Mar 24th, 2013 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Classic comedy....
I didn't know they had released the minutes of the meeting already!!
@84 MonkeyMagic
Mar 24th, 2013 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Real good laugh.
@85 Anglinto
@86 Tooyoung
Bloody well said.
Oh to be a fly on the wall.
I agree with @46 Reality check.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whatever BKM says, TM will say something completely different.
I suspect that BKM will reiterate his statement from November that;
“people living under certain conditions should have a certain level of capacities so that they can decide their own future”, be it independence or some kind of government in their territories.
He will say that the referendum is precisely what these people are entitled to and furthermore that their wishes should be respected.
BKM can no more call the referendum illegal than he can deny the right of Self-Determination, because to do so would be contrary to the Charter.
I rather suspect that BKM will ask Tinman why he didn't attend the empty chair meeting. There's a pretty good chance that he will ask why CFK did not discuss the matter with the Pope and why the Pope is unwilling to get involved.
Simply put, BKM will smile & suggest that Tinman ask for another (empty chair) meeting with the Falkland Islanders. If he refuses to do this on the grounds that recognising the Falkland Islanders exist would also mean recognising their rights, then BKM would say;
“If you refuse to meet with them, will you kindly stop wasting the UN's valuable time demanding negotiations that you refuse to attend?!!!”
Not content with trying to divide and conquer with the Scots I see that the RG's are now trying it on with the Welsh. However it looks like the Taffs have rumbled them:
Mar 24th, 2013 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2013/03/23/patagonia-could-form-template-for-falklands-in-argentina-says-ambassador-91466-33043072/
clearly the Argentines arent going to get the Falklands and they now know it. It looks like they are now quite brazenly simply asking the UK to hand the islands over. Incredible really.
Still this is what you get when one third of the Government is Montoneros, one third is Quebracho and the other third is La Campora. Imagine having to deal with 3 terrorist organisations.
Comment removed by the editor.
Mar 24th, 2013 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now that's the most sensible thing I've heard from the malvinistas for a while!
Mar 24th, 2013 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@84:
Mar 24th, 2013 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lmao! Good one.
http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2013/03/24/pope-will-not-support-argentina-over-the-falklands/
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:-)
Good word, LT :)
Mar 24th, 2013 - 11:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@89:
Mar 25th, 2013 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Big Fcukin mistake trying to gain Scots support in this day and age, after 1982.
Apart from George Galloway, the rest of Scotland will not forget the sacrifice of 2 Scots Guards on Mt Tumbledown, - And that of all other Jock Paras, Marines, and everybody else.
So the Pope is a no go for CFK wonder what her next comedy act will be.?
Mar 25th, 2013 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0@89:
Mar 25th, 2013 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Aye, and of course The Welshmen. The real Welshmen, not the ones in argentina.
Nice one LT
Mar 25th, 2013 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0““no regional country” has recognized as a legitimate voting process”
Mar 25th, 2013 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I thought the world support Argentina's claim? Now it is just the region....?
before the result of this meeting is announced, i will say it now HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH.
Mar 25th, 2013 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0SELF-DETERMINATION.........status quo! rocking all over the world.
Wouldn't it be great if Timmerman got to his meeting at the UN, and as you walk through the door he saw a member of the FIG sitting next to Ban Ki Moon.
Mar 25th, 2013 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Question. Would he:
A) explode
B) storm out
C) sit down quietly and then foul his underwear when he realises what CFK will do to him when he gets home (sorry, did I say home? I meant Argentina. Obviously by Timmerman's logic home is really somewhere that used to be part of the old Soviet Union).
That should be a fascinating meeting! Neither of them knows a thing about the Falkland Islands.
Mar 25th, 2013 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Philippe
Argentina is a fraudulent republic, corrupt to its heart.
Mar 25th, 2013 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We were all here before and now marginalized in our land:
aonikenks-tehuelches
atacameños
avá-guaraníes-chiriguanos
aymaras
chanés
charrúas
chiripás
chorotes
chulupís
comechingones
diaguitas y calchaquíes
huarpes
kollas
lules
maimaráes
mapuches
mbyás-guaraníes
mocovíes
ocloyas
omaguacas
onas-selk' nams
pampas
pehuenches
pilagás
paí tavyterás
puelches
quechuas
querandíes
ranqueles-rankulches
sanavirones
tapietés
tastiles
tobas-qoms
tonokotés
tupís-guaraníes
vilelas
wichís-matacos
yámanas
The Kelpers are our brothers. Another ethnic minority the Republic wishes to destroy. I salute you in your fight and one day we will emulate your example of self-determination.
We are growing, moving silently through the night while the the huinca sleeps. It is our land, our home and we will have it back.
I'm sure that the Falkland Islanders recognise & support the cause of the native peoples of South America. Especially those in Argentina who suffered so cruelly at the hands of the Spanish and during their so called 'Conquest of the Desert' which should really be titled the 'Argentine Genocide of Native Americans'.
Mar 25th, 2013 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was your land before the Spanish colonialists arrived and it will be your land again in the future, when their state falls apart. The Falkland Islanders are also victims of Buenos Aires aggression, but the more that the Argentine Government tries to oppress the true owners of the land, the more the native Americans and Falkland Islanders will fight back.
I wonder what trimmerman expects Banksy Moon to say that he's not already said? Is this diplomacy?
Mar 25th, 2013 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0--- their so called 'Conquest of the Desert' which should really be titled the 'Argentine Genocide of Native Americans'.----
Mar 25th, 2013 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0they tend to use - 'The Campaign' of the Desert' - these days.
@106 obvious renaming of a genocide is obvious.
Mar 25th, 2013 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Desert genocide was only the most visible of many. In the north was the “green desert” genocide of Gran Chaco where massacres continued into the 1930s.
Mar 25th, 2013 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Today the soyaization of the rural economy means wealthy landowners are again using violence to force original peoples of their land in the north.
@108 there are no limits to the extents Argentinians will go in order to kill their native people, outlining a reason why the Falklands should be protected from these people. The Argentine presidency released a TV advert where they showed the falklands with all the british ethnically cleansed and the 'new' population all speaking spanish, being corrupt and children saluting the flag of argentina.
Mar 25th, 2013 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Presenting their desires to kill the falkland islanders so obtusely, whilst claiming they care about humanity, made me want to puke.
103 Calfucurá
Mar 25th, 2013 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good luck my friend. We all have our “Struggle”.
Yours is to free yourself from the chains that your government hangs round your neck.
The Falkland Islanders ( Kelpers ) is to free themselves from the bullying and constant whining and b*tching that comes from the Argentine government.
The UK's struggle is to escape from under a Europe full of lap dogs and “Yes” men, presided over by the Jackbooted, goose stepping Germans.
If we fail, if we let the chance to show the other down trodden nations of Europe see the light ( Greece, Cyprus, Italy ) then the whole of Europe will be under the rule of the 4th Reich.
David Came-moron would do well to read the signs and listen to public opinion on this one otherwise, I think, the Conservative party will cease to exist after the next general election.
@109
Mar 25th, 2013 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The TV advert you mention is a recent example of their “negationism”. For us it was the false history written in to school books. We never existed, there was no genocide and all of us indigenous are merely foreigners who have recently arrived.
The huinca only need look in the mirror to know the truth. Of course many know, but for them living on stolen land it is an inconvenient truth best left in the past.
One day we will be heard at the UN.
@110 Thank you.
@111
Mar 25th, 2013 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One day representatives of all the native Americans will stand in the C24 committee room to demand the decolonisation of their land by the evil Argentine Republic.
Karma is a bitch sometimes and it would be sweet justice to see the Argentines try and deny that they murdered the native Americans to steal their land and still treat them as a second class peoples today.
Once the Falkland Islanders have sufficient oil revenue, I'm sure they would enjoy seeing the Argentine Republic put on the naughty chair and subjected to demands that they decolonise all the native American lands, which basically means handing back virtually all of Argentina.
That would be one sweet day to be in the committee room, applauding the native Americans as they present their demand for decolonisation to the C24.
Ban Ki Moon will have a hard time with Pazmiño, president of the UN Special Committee on Decolonization (C24).
Mar 25th, 2013 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pazmiño will press the C24 case, and BKM will have to explain to him the illogicalities of his own UN Committee. The UN cannot come out of it well if BKN chooses to go down this semantic route.
Better to have his position established in a flurry of articles and statements before the meeting, and then sit and listen (without speaking) to the Argentinian/C24 case. Then, after 5 minutes, he should say “My next meeting starts in 5 minutes, you have two further minutes to make your case”.
BKM's C24 can then be restructured during the coming year because TFI referendum has highlighted and publicly exposed the C24's unfitness for purpose.
There is no mileage for BKM and the UN in making even more of a fool of Timerman; his status, and that of his president, on the matter is well known worldwide.
Though foolishness is not an all or nothing - like pregnancy, the Argentinian foolish position is as close to complete as it is possible to get. BKM should, at the very minimum, point this out privately and diplomatically. This is his job.
Its time for the C24 to be run down and dismantled,
Mar 25th, 2013 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0its worthyness is not out of date, corupted , and a waste of taxpayers money..
79 Skåre-Vuggevise - thanks for your comment. Another important difference is that Finland, being a Nordic country, is cool-headed, whereas Argentina, being a Latin American country, is hot-headed.
Mar 26th, 2013 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0@115
Mar 26th, 2013 - 01:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0In short they are mature, self assured, progressive countries. Model democracies. Everything that Argentina isnt. They've had no more of an advantage over Argentina in becoming the countries they are. In fact less so. Argentina has no excuse other than losing its way and the ensuing terrible self management over the last 100 yrs.
Nationalism is the cancer. If everyone - The Peronistas etc AND Clarin etc - dropped the nationalistic rhetoric (used for a variety of reasons) Argentina would immediately start moving forward towards greater stability and equality in wealth ..
Even when Finland was a Grand Duchy of the Russian Empire, it was more of a democracy than Argentina. Democracy isn't just about democratic elections, it's about a democratic political culture; something neither Argentina or Spain have, as illustrated by their attitude towards the Falklands and Gibraltar.
Mar 26th, 2013 - 03:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Mar 26th, 2013 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@84
Mar 27th, 2013 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Excellent!
Perhaps Ban ki Moon would ask why with a numerical superiority, Pinedo did not resist Captain Onslow, and he would perhaps be amazed that Pinedo's British born mercenaries (the majority of Pinedo's men) refused to fight their fellow brits -something Timmidman would wet his drawers to admit-yet it happened. But your piece hit the nail on the head. Many a true word spoken in jest.
Or perhaps Timmidman would protest that Pinedo's British men (despite the fact they were expelled too, by Onslow)were pirate agents of the British crown, and therefore a replay should be arranged, The Libertard vs say HMS Victory out of mothballs and competing crews of Brits and Argies down to Port Louis.
Wonder who would win? (heh heh).
Given that Victory's broadside was enough to demolish two of the first line French ships at Trafalgar, Bucentaure and Redoutable, I don't think Libertad would last 1 minute. Possibly less than 10 seconds.
Mar 27th, 2013 - 11:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Victory was under fire for nearly 40 minutes before she could finally open fire with a broadside, but when she did, it was Goodnight Vienna!
One of life's greater ironies is that one of the Santísima Trinidad was one of the Spanish ships of the line captured and then sunk at Trafalgar. The Argentine ship of the same name ARA Santísima Trinidad 'surrendered' to the sea (by sinking in port!).
“favourable opportunity to expose the reasons of the illegality of the referendum” So what is this alleged illegality based on? Simply some demented mantra.
Mar 28th, 2013 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Obviously, the referendum was legal as:
1. There is no specific law that Argentina can rely on to nullify it.
2. Argentina by her failure to legally challenge it, has given tacit consent, with her acquiescence.
@120 Nigel Nice comment indeed.If the ARA ever manages to get its ducks in a row, should Uk send a Drake to falk the lot of them perhaps?
Mar 28th, 2013 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@121
Mar 28th, 2013 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”
The very fact that Argentina has protested so loudly about the Referendum, even gathering together the other LATAM countries to support them when they protest to Ban Ki-moon at the UN, shows how impotent they were to stop it and how effectively it demonstrated the rights of the Islanders, whom Argentina would prefer the world ignored as implants.
It must really sting them that the world's press paid so much attention to the vote. They were hoping that it would be ignored, but with so many nations sending camera crews and independent scrutineers from many nations (even South America) it was impossible for Argentina to claim that the vote was rigged, or that it did not truly express the wishes of the 'down-trodden' Islanders.
The fact is that the more Argentina bleats about the Referendum, the more everyone realises that Argentina knows that the Referendum was a massive victory for the Islanders.
“The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”
The meaning from Hamlet is quite clear, the more that make your statement, the more people believe that you are not sincere and actually believe the opposite.
Argentina might have done better if they had ignored the vote and dismissed the result quietly as having no relevance. The problem is that by protesting wildly at it, they've actually drawn everyone's attention to the fact that the Islander's exist and that their rights must be respected.
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