MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands’ lawmaker regrets South American leaders take for granted Argentina’s version of events
Falklands’ lawmaker Gavin Short regretted on Tuesday in Bolivia that the governments of South America take for granted the Argentine version of the conflict between Argentina and the UK over the Islands sovereignty without ever having listened to the other side. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesGlobal issue, is that as opposed to the minor regional issues with Syria and Korea?
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 07:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Cruella is barking mad. Talk about an illegitimate claim whilst BA drowns ... good solid, considered, balanced leadership? I, like the majority of onlookers think NOT. She is an embarrasment not only to Argentina but to the rest of the world. Please could the ordinary, decent Argentinians remove this idiot from power so that thier country can survive and flourish.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 07:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Falklands’ lawmaker regrets South American entrenched racism towards non-latinos”, would be closer to the truth.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 08:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0The fact is, the vile stench of Latin American Chauvinism persists in all but the most progressive of South American nations (such as Chile). Whilst this racism persists, the Falkland islanders will not get anywhere and should just be happy with having a massive stretch of water between themselves and the ex-spanish/ex-italians.
In summary, people of the falklands: build ports, build roads and rail, invest in education.. as the Argentines are never going to be your friends.
@3 Agree
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 08:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0This goes back as far as the Treaty of Tordesillas where the New World (ie S America) was divided between Spain and Portugal. France fell foul of it with the Port Louis settlement and so do the Falklanders.
It has to do with a form of ethnic cleansing as much as it does with Argentina's specious sovereignty claims.
The good news is with all that luvverly oil revenue there is the possibility of by-passing S America altogether with a new deep water port and flights further afield (eg St Helena once they get their airport) and the US (Miami was mentioned). I think the latter will happen (or perhaps Houston) due to the movement of oil related personnel
Brazil, Chile are trading partners. The Olympics will connect the UK and the Falklands to Brazil as,we have so many people helping there, and Brazil has Portuguese heritage. As for the rest, just keep calm and carry on. The Falklands should be invested in, nurtured and supported, it has great potential. It's hard to ignore the invective stream from the cretins in Rgland, but that's what we have got to do.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0What is happening right now should have been happening a hundred or so years ago. Our elected leaders should have taken the voice of the people to the rest of the world then and not allowed the Argentines the level of freedom to inject so many lies . Thankfully our modern society finally has seen the sense to go out in the world and tell it how it really is.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 09:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0We are British wish to remain so and do not want Argentina as a part of our culture thank you very much. We have been quietly going about our own affairs peacefully while Argentina has done nothing but try to ruin our way of life. A lifestyle that is envied by many across the globe.
It is time for Argentina to stop this stupid prehistoric claim and start looking as the Islanders have done to the future. War and aggression solves nothing but causes much misery. No one wins from these acts but simply destroys their own lives and their Children's lives.
Falkland Islanders have very valuable tools at their disposal today and one of them is the world wide web. We are now able to tell the world exactly how it is , No lies , just the plain truth and Argentina is having difficulty coping with the truth.
I believe that it is necessary to go on the offensive armed with the truth.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentines have been indoctrinated with a false history for so long, they don't even wish to consider that they've been lied to. Indeed, they refuse to accept that they've been lied to (even if the lie is exposed), because it is too painful to admit that they've been the victim of a lie & spreading that lie to others.
No one likes to admit that they've been fooled, because it damages ones ego to accept that you were gullible. It can also be hurtful to your reputation. Especially when you've unwittingly been fooling others with the lie, totally unaware that you were doing it, because it makes the further victims feel foolish too.
That's why I believe that it is in the Islander's interests to commission a comprehensive television history of the Islands (in many languages), by a reputable internationally known historian, to tell the true historical story of the Islands.
How many times do the Argentines appear on these boards to tell their distorted history, the one that's been fed to them as propaganda, about how they 'inherited' the islands from Spain in 1810. How many times do we have to tell them that the British first arrived in 1690 and set up a colony in 1765, long before the Spanish arrived. How many times do we have to repeat that the Spanish never relinquished their claim until 1863, or that the Spanish who left in 1811 went to Montevideo, not Buenos Aires.
People only believe what they can see. There are documents in museums in London, Buenos Aires, Washington & Madrid which prove conclusively what exactly happened & a TV reconstruction of these events would undo a lot of the damage by the Argentine propaganda by showing the other countries in South America & around the world that Argentina has been lying to them.
We know from the excellent Pascoe & Pepper papers, as well as Roger Lorton's that the Islands belong to the Islanders The true story must be told.
“president Cristina Fernandez speaking from Puerto Madryn said that the Malvinas claim had become a ‘global cause’ against colonialism and in support of dialogue with the UK, as mandated by the UN.”
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0'global cause' No it isn't
'colonialism' Yes, but on the part of Agentina
UN mandated dialogue, well thats her version of the UN position.
Once again, lies and spin from the president of Argentina.
She was on BBC TV tonight, talking up Argentina's democratic and human rights credentials. Clearly the high moral image she projects doesnt extend as far as the Falkland Islands which suffers from Argentine trade embargos and whose population is not recognised by her government.
Its good that the Falkland Island lawmakers are out and about in latin America trying to put their case and counter Argentina's biased version of history. They have nothing to loose and everything to gain.
Hear hear, nigelpwsmith.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Let the campaign begin.
7
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0“
No one likes to admit that they've been fooled, because it damages ones ego to accept that you were gullible. It can also be hurtful to your reputation. Especially when you've unwittingly been fooling others with the lie, totally unaware that you were doing it, because it makes the further victims feel foolish too.”
Now I understand why you continue with your lies...
It's very simple, you are Brits. Go home to Britain. The island might be populated by Argentines, Falklanders, Ghurkas, whatever. But they will nev er ever be British. Only on your maps.
I'm trying to do my bit here in Ireland regarding the truth about the Falkland Islands but whenever I mention Kristina Kirchner people I'm talking to either roll their eyes and shake their heads or say “who”.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's the problem with global support when nobody's heard of you.
@10 and also on Argentine maps, specifically the one used to settle the beagle channel dispute which Argentina refused to accept the resolution and tried to take the islands anyway by force.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Kind of ruined your own argument there.
@11 The issue is more to do with the fact that Latin americans know the Argentines to be complete liars, however, they are overwhelmed by the need for Latin America to be something. As a result, like the 1930s germans, they'll accept any old BS as fact simply to improve their own personal situation.
Spreading information to match the argentine disinformation isn't going to help anyone. All that matters is that the Falkland Islanders build a successful and prosperous community both socially and economically. Then it's going to be pretty difficult to argue with the fact they don't exist and have no rights.
@7, thats weird, I remember a certain map used in the beagle channel dispute. Care to guess what name was given to the group of Islands east of Argentina?!?
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 11:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0So, in your heads, anyone that calls the islands Falklands, are automatically siding with the Brits?
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really sorry then, from now on, it's the Malvinas.
#14
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0You can call it anything you wish-nobody cares.
“ But they will nev er ever be British.”
Stop press news just in.....the Falklands are British since 1765 !
Dream on !!!!!!
15
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0No they are not. They are colonized by the Brits since 1833.
They will never ever be British. You can call it so, if it makes you a happier man though...
@14
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0You can repeat the phrase “Malvinas are Argentinian” until you are blue in the face, it doesnt make it true. You need to explain why...the Argentine position as to why is confused, hypocritical, misrepresentative and ever-changing.
At various times it is based on:
1) Geography
2) Inheritance from Spain
3) Usurped, displaced population
4) self-determination does not count for “implanted populations”
I would agree with you that if a definitive case for any were provable, that Argentina would have a case for feeling agrieved, even then, my view is that self-determination of the current population would have to prevail.
HOWEVER, NONE OF THE ARGENTINE ARGUMENTS ARE ROBUST
1) the islands are 300 miles off the coast of what is today Argentina, and 1000 miles from where Argentina stopped in 1833. There are dozens of cases where islands are affiliated with countries not immediately closest to them, and very few “automatically associated” to countries 1000 miles away. Typically the faroe islands are 150 miles of the UK coast and associated with the much more distant Denmark.
2) The inheritance is again unclear. There was no population in 1814 to support “indepndence” and certainly Spain didnt recognise the inheritance. It is also far from clear that the islands were wholly Spanish to cede.
3) The islands were not usurped 55 militia were peacefully evicted from the islands. They had been there 2 months and already committed murder and rape. The 20-30 civilians were not evicted and in 1833 were under the leadership of the British Matthew Brisbane. If anything, Argentine were attempting to usurp in 1832. Argentina continually insinuate that a large, long established population was evicted..this is WHOLLY UNTRUE.
4) Finally and most hypocritically, the Argentines argue that implanted populations have no rights to self determination...WHICH IS EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE ARGUMENT THEY USED IN 1814..l.as did nearly all the Americas.
The Islands belong to the Islanders
17
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0You don't get it... I could not care less of your history, the Argentines have their side of the story.
You are Brits. This is South America. End of story.
16 Stevie
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0I had thought that you at least had some intelligence and understood the real facts concerning the islands.
I also used to think Guzz was intelligent also.
Then he, as you are now doing, descended into the argie cesspit of idiocy, lies and abuse.
I suspect you will not be posting here much longer. Guzz gave up telling lies and was never heard of again: then you turned up.
Stevie
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have proven my point..Argentina doesnt have its side of history, it has exactly the same history (ask Think about your National Archives) only it is being misrepresented.
You are Spanish/Italian in South American, the Falkland Islanders are British in South Atlantic. You have exercised your right to self-determination in 1814 and deny the same right to them. You committed genocide to expand your country in the 1880s, they evicted a handful of rapists and murderers..whod been there 2 months.
In other words you are a hypocrite.
END OF STORY>>>LOL
@18 Stevie:
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...and you are Latins. It is South America.
We get it: you are hypocrites that can't be bargained with unless it is down the barrel of a gun.
19
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cheers, sadly, I never felt the same about you...
Tell me, who have I abused? Have I ever even insulted someone, other than with my views?
You keep mentioning that Guzz character. Soon I'll google Mercopress to find out what happened for that fellow to leave such a deep impression on you.
Stevie has already jumped from the usurption argument to the geography argument...next we will get implanted population or inheritance.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All four arguments are bollocks..
Timmerman had the nerve to sit in the UN and ask the chap from Reuters how long a territory had to have been “seized militarily” before it became ok?
An Argentinian....asking that question in the UN. The indigenoua Patagonians jaws must have dropped at the OUTRAGEOUS HYPOCRISY.
20
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, we are Brazilians, Chileans, Bolivians, Uruguayans, Argentinians, Paraguayans, Venezuelans, Ecuadorians, Peruvians and Colombians. We are not Spanish or Italian. You are Brits.
We need no other arguments.
I see Stevie..
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you would have absolutely no qualm whatsoever with the Falkland Islanders becoming independent and having the Falkland Islands as a nation state as opposed to a British Overseas Territory.
Practising the exact self-determination that you “Spanish and Italians” in the 1800s.
If you do have a problem with this, you are again a steaming hypocrite.
25
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0See? That's a solution I agree on. Mostly because I'm not Argentine, but should that be the case, my guess is that Argentina would be alone in her claims. SA's issue are the Brits and their arms. Not many people gives a damn about your historical pie-throwing.
@Stevie
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Only the indigenous native Amerindians have a right to own the land of South America.
98% of the population of Argentina are colonial people who came from Europe. In Argentina, the majority of these came from Spain & Italy with a few Germans & Welsh. The 2% who are indigenous are the true owners of Argentina and by rights, they should be taking the Government of Argentina to the C24 Committee to force the Spanish & Italian people to leave & go back to Europe (only Europe would not want them!).
You refuse to accept the truth, yet documents in the Argentine national archives support the Falkland Islander's version of events. There are documents in London, Buenos Aires, Madrid and Washington which prove conclusively that the British were the first to arrive & claim the Islands, that the British owned the Islands when the United Provinces tried to steal them, that the United Provinces were warned to leave & then removed peacefully when they refused to.
You say that the Islands have been occupied since 1833, whilst the historical documents in your own country say that the British were there long before Argentina even existed.
The Argentine claim to the Islands fails comprehensibly because each arm of it, be it historical or geographical has no validity legally. Otherwise, Argentina would have taken the claim to the International Court of Justice long ago.
Argentina knew full well that they have to fabricate their claim with lies, because if they relied on the facts - on historical documentation - then other countries would not support them.
Even today, the Argentine Government is forced to admit that the Argentine population was not evicted in 1833. Firstly because Argentina did not exist in 1833 & secondly because the civilians remained & Argentine documents prove this - the courts martial of Pinedo.
Denying that these documents exist only makes you appear the fool, because the Falkland Islanders can prove to the world that they own the Islands.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/04/03/falklands-lawmaker-regrets-south-american-leaders-take-for-granted-argentina-s-version-of-events#comment234645: You will be able to remain British after Argentina regains control of las Malvinas so there is no problem.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perfect...
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now we have established that the Falklands can be an independent Nation state with the support of SA..a solution that very few could argue with, we now need to understand security of the islands.
Britain had a tiny military contingent in 1981. It is a myth that Britian has an inherent wish to spend £60m a year in a “NATO base” in the South Atlantic.
However, the absence of a defence for the islands in 1982 cost 255 British lives. Quite simply, we do not trust the Argentines not to do it again, and 255 lives to recover the islands is too high a price to pay, in fact without an aircraft carrier until 2019 it would be a significantly higher death toll.
We do not buy for a single second that most Argentines did not support the war, we dont buy for a second that undefended the islands would not be attacked again, and we recognise the defence minister of Argentinas ascertain that they would attack again if the defences were removed.
However, if you are happy with the independence route, and the islanders using their oil wealth to perhaps pay an independent (US?) defence to be stationed on the islands to provide a permenent deterrent, I think we are in business.
27
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's a bunch of rubbish. With that argument, we should all move back to Africa. Don't waste your time. Or mine.
The only proofs that I see, is that the islanders are Brits, as they themselves pointed out in last referendum.
@24 Stevie
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You are Brits. We need no other arguments.”
You should take that killer point to the ICJ. That might really swing it for you. And as for “End of story” (18) - Ouch!! You're on fire!
29
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We don't believe for one second that you warmonging troops are there to ensure peace.
They are there to meddle, and meddle they do.
31
Cheers!
“”“”You can call it so, if it makes you a happier man though...“””
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can, they are and they will be.
Argentina, however, the rabid coloniser of Patagonia, will not be allowed to colonise the Falklands.
Argentina has no rights to either the Falklands or Patagonia, other than through forced occupation by military might and subsequent colonisation of the local peoples.
Lets see you deny that little fact.
33
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You shouldn't really be pointing fingers until you are prepared to recieve whole of USA in Heathrow airport...
You cant deny it can you?
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You COLONISED the entirety of Patagonia.. you are COLONIALISTS.
end of moral argument by Argentina.
QED
@34
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes the American colonists declared independence and like all former UK colonies made a real success of themselves. Interesting that they never claimed Canada or Bermuda when they went.
Argentina not only COLONISED Patagonia but they raped, killed and pillaged the indigenous people to do so.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0British settlers didnt do that in the Falklands - there were no people living there.
Odd that Argentina tries to claim some moral high-ground where it, once again, wants to COLONISE a neighbouring area where it says the locals Have no rights”.
Can we see a pattern here?
@32
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can you please answer the following:
1) why were they not there in 1981 “meddling”?
2) any examples where they have “meddled”?
Having no defence in the islands cost 255 British lives and 650 Argentine lives.
Having a defence on the islands has cost zero lives.
However, if as part of the “Independence discussions” we can agree that an Independent UN peace-keeping force be stationed around the islands with no British or South American contingent, and a clear message to Argentina that any invasion or sabre-rattling would be an act of war with full and unequivocal consequence...we can continue our independence discussion.
35
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the Anglo-saxons COLONIZED the British islands. Go back to Africa!
What happened there, Anbar? Did you short-circuit?
36
That's the key, independence.
As it is now, 1500 Brits are implanted in the Falk... sorry, Malvinas (as the naming is of major importance to you lot) with another 1500 British military.
“”35
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the Anglo-saxons COLONIZED the British islands. Go back to Africa!
What happened there, Anbar? Did you short-circuit?“”
Well done Stevei - you just help prove y point: THAT happened a very long time ago.
Argentina are trying to COLONISE the Falklands TODAY.
Please explain to everyone why Argentina should be allowed to COLONISE somewhere in the modern world?
Stevie,
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Simple message mate.
The Falklands are OUR lslands.
They do NOT belong to Argentina.
They have NEVER belonged to Argentina.
They NEVER will belong to Argentina.
We will live our life on our lslands how we like.
It's none of your business & we don't care what you think.
Can't make it any plainer than that.
40
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0According to the Argentines, they merely want back what is rightfully theirs. As for to the rest of SA, we just want the Brits out.
@40
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is no need for the UK or the US to return to where they orignally came from, as both those countries fully sign-up to and support the principles of self-determination.
It is Argentina that doesnt support this principle and believes that it is not relevant to “implanted populations”.
As Stevie points out...we are ALL implanted populations, one way or another..so according to Argentina (TODAY) nobody has the right to self-determination.
This is of course folly...
The Falklanders population have families that go back 8-9 generations. At what point do you stop being an “implanted population”.
Interestingly, the same Argentines (Hector timmerman) call those expelled in 1833 as “the original population”.
So, according to Hector 55 people who were not born on the islands, had only been there 2 months, had raped and murdered...constitute a population (not implanted)
But 1500 people, through nearly 2 centuries, who evicted no civilians aren't a population.
As I said HYPOCRISY ON A GRAND SCALE.
“”“40
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0According to the Argentines, they merely want back what is rightfully theirs. As for to the rest of SA, we just want the Brits out.”“”
SO THAT you can colonise the Falklands.
Yes, we all know that.
Thank you for confirming it for everyone.
The 1850 Convention of Settlement ended any Argentinian claim regardless. Argentina protested every year from 1833 to 1849, once the Convention was signed there was no more protests showing that the Government of Argentina accepted British sovereignty.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“This is of course folly...”
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course its folly, it in fact completely barmy.
But it takes blood, sweat and tears to get an Argentine to admit their “Moral” arguments against “colonisers” applies FAR more to their own actions than to anybody else in the entire world.
They havent got a moral leg to stand on whatsoever.
#16
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes they are. You can call them Argentinian if it makes you happy.
Define “IMPLANTED”
#40 Such as the Falklands , South Georgia, South Sandwich Isles, Antarctica, parts of Chile, etc, etc and anything else that takes their fancy.
If you are not Argentinian, what is it to you apart from a hatred of “Brits”
Stevie, We would also like the Brazileans living in the UK illegally pretending to be Portugese out also
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let's take your points one by one so that we keep things straight.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@10 Yes, you've been lied to. So we don't give a toss what you “think”. And the Islanders ARE home.
@14 Malvinas, Cordoba.
@16 1690. At least have the courtesy to get the date right.
@18 Fine. The Falkland Islands are in the South Atlantic.
@24 No, you are delusional, deluded, self-important, imperialist, colonialist twats. At least 50% of south american populations are European. A large proportion of the remainder are half-breed mongrels. You can be what you are. Or you could be dead. Push it!
@28 Couple of “errors”. Argieland will NEVER “regain control” of territory on which it only ever TRESPASSED. But feel free to continue to wait. How do you feel about the year 52013 as an “aspiration”?
@30 Sorry? I thought you were still living in caves and trees.
@32 What you “believe” is of no interest. We can't “cure” every queer psychotic. But what we can do is..............
48
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do as usual, shoot them in the “tube”...
“People are happy, they have the feeling that at last something was done to show the world what it is they wanted, to remain British” said MLA Short“
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The same who
”described the referendum as the beginning of a new path towards the adoption of greater autonomy for the Islands.”
and reported that
“A growing number of younger generations are longing for independence” .
So there we have it. We want to stay British but we will want more autonomy and some of us long to be an independent country. It makes one wonder why there wasn't a NO vote after all.
go away DoverOverDover you inane sock-puppet.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 051 Dover- very simple reason- Whilst we have Argentina shouting abuse at us next door and saying very publicy that they want to take us over and make us a part of Tierra Del Fuego with an absentee Governor and State Legislature who would have control over out laws - ie we would have to become A COLONY of Argentina - we have NO choice but to want to remain a B.O.T. as it comes with a Defence Guarantee of our Human Rights.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now- get the Arg Govt to state publicly at the UN and in the OAS that it would recognise the Islands if we went Independent- then we could be getting somewhere.
16 Stevie you are a hypocrite no mistake. You are brainwashed and beyond reasoning. If anyone colonised any place it was Argentina when the brutally murdered the indigenous people of the land. The stole it . Argentina has never owned the Falklands period. It is a myth to think you ever did. The reality is it is human greed. If our Country was just a piece of windswept uninhabited territory your people would never have lived on them. The only reason you want us is you have the utmost hatred for anything British and you cannot bear to have them living so close to your stolen country.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is time that the Argentines were told the truth. It is bad news when a Country lies to its people. I shows just how bad the modern world still is in under developed Countries. Argentina had a lot going for it many years ago but blew it all away by allowing dictators to control you.
it would be the biggest mistake ever if Falkland Islanders were to accept your corrupt ways. We are a proud people who have been getting it right since we first settled on the land. Proud also that we did not slaughter any people to live on the Islands. The only thing we are not proud of is fooling for the argentines sweet talk during the 1970's. Thank god we got a wake up call in 1982 that showed us and the world just how evil Argentina had become.
THINK will be here any minute now
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They're expecting another 100mm of rain in BA today. This might be the end of the line for CFK.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One can only hope.
@7 nigelpwsmith
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Totally agree.
Now the referendum is over its time for the FIG to follow it up with a big campaign promoting the truth around Latin America, fight fire with fire. More high profile diplomatic trips and several full page newspaper advertisements. Educating Latin America is key. No reasonable person would support Argentina's colonial cause knowing the truth facts.
@51
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0IMO there was a no vote for, 'do you want the government of Argentina to have any direct contol over your lives?'
Do you think I might be right, Think?
#51
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A NO vote would have been taken by Argentina that the Islanders wanted nothing to do with the UK.
They would then have used this as “proof”that the UK was holding the population against their will and acting against their wishes.
A more correct vote would have been-“ Do wish to be colonised by Argentina ?”
@52
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie is just another puppet, he is as real as DOD.
TWIMC
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0MLA Short is in Bolivia to….......: ”Present the position of the Islanders vis-à-vis what they consider “a gross distortion of the truth” from the part of Argentina.”
MLA Short told the Bolivians that.........…”It is really sad that they (the Argentineans) don’t acknowledge that the Falkland Islanders are “humans” and have basic rights as any other person to decide on their status and future.”
Anybody mentioned…..................: ”A gross distortion of the truth”?
Brainwash anybody?
@32 Stevie
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“29
We don't believe for one second that you warmonging troops are there to ensure peace.
They are there to meddle, and meddle they do.”
How do they “meddle”?
Is this like USA “intervening” or “interfering” in the current Venezuelan election by asking for a “fair and free election”??
@42 The Argentines want what isn't rightfully theirs. It's like they have no legitimate rights over the islands. Get it right, because the devil is in the detail.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@51 One day there will be a NO vote, and we'll proudly let them go. However, the Islands still won't be yours.
@40stevie
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“
According to the Argentines, they merely want back what is rightfully theirs. As for to the rest of SA, we just want the Brits out.”
Sounds racist to me.
@42 Stevie
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0> As for to the rest of SA, we just want the Brits out.
Seems like once again Argentina has slipped behind the rest of SA. While some of the rest have made it as far as the ethno-racial hostilities of the 1930's, Argentina remains grounded in the territorial land-grabbing of the 19th century.
I guess we should be grateful.
@51
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tell me , whats wrong with wanting to be independent? Good luck to them, but remember we will be there for defence purposes. They will be independent once the oil starts flowing in about 5 years time.TOODLEPIP
Hay! Short, Short, Short ..... how it lives up to its name this type: “corto, corto, corto” in Castilian!
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The poor guy does not know that the Republic of Bolivia was the first country to officially denounce the outrage to Argentina by usurp the pirates of his majesty, the Malvinas Islands.
“The occupation of East Malvinas, without previous complaint, without giving any title and without other support abuse arrogance .... so manifestly in violation of international law should be considered an insult not only to Argentina but all American Republics ”
Brilliant words of Chancellor of Bolivia. How 2013? No! June 1833. Yes, in 1833.
(For the morons of this blog who do not know, the Constitution of 1826 called Argentina, Argentina Republic.)
And really think this retarded, that Bolivian brothers will betray their history?
I do not forget: THANKS AGAIN TO BOLIVIA.
This man “peed out of the jar”.
Steve
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you've crystallised beautifully the key Malvinista claims
I'm sure they will play well at the ICJ
Good Luck
@53 Nonsense. Let me just point out that the best way to achieve greater autonomy now and still remain a BOT would have been to vote NO. So long as you have the 2008 Constitution no amount of claiming to be self governing will persuade those who can read the English language that this is the case.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for your Human Rights, they are essentially individual not collective rights. Have a read of the Constitution if you don't believe me. If you were to become an independent nation you could negotiate a defence treaty with any sovereign nation you choose (and who would choose you) in advance.
It's bad enough that UK hides behind you without you hiding behind the Latin American bogeyman to avoid fronting up to the nationalist claims of other nations.
A COUPLE OF CONCEPTS BEFORE TALKING TO SHORT AND COMPANY.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It seems that short's fragil memory forgat to tell that the right to self determination has never been applied for this case, in fact, the d. c. from the u. n. have always considered the malvinas-falkland cause like a special colonial situation.
On the other hand, he forgat to tell also that the govt. from the islands has never been included as a third part in this conflict by the u. n.
Beside, if he's affraid of a new invasion, he should remember also that our constitution is very clear in relation to the way that arg. must continue with it's claim, which is under the respect for the international right and peacefuly.
I would like to know what kind of independence is short talking about?, doens't he remember that if the islands are still under british govt. is because of the sovereign conflict between arg. and the u. k.
There are no other reasons to remain under british colonialism, in fact the islanders are living in one of the most prosperous places in the world, and have one the biggest life standards. So, beyond short's fragil memory and omissions, as long as the sovereign conflict continues, independece is just a dream, and short and all the rest of the islanders know it perfectly.
Short and all the other members of the govt. from the islands claim for dialogue, but at the same time they reject to discuss about the sovereignty which is the main problem, arguing that arg. pretends just one outcome, which according to their opinion, our country just would accept it's sovereignty over the islands, doesn't this posture of the govt. from the islands mean that for these people there is also just one outcome?, of course it does, the problem is that the colonial hypocresy of these people doesn't let them recognize it.
He should remember about the secret proposal of 1974 treated between both nations, read by c. f. k. last year, which included the wishes of the islanders of remaining under british government.
@62 We will know it's coming because someone will stand for election to the Assembly on an Independence platform and been voted in first. Not in my lifetime then.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@67
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re-read your quote again. It seems that Bolivia in 1833 was against the claim of East Falkland due to the fact the historic British settlement had been on West Falkland and the original French/Spanish settlement on East Falkland.
Assuming this was the case,
1)why do Argentina now claim all the Falklands when clearly even their allies didn't support them in west Falkland.
2) why did Argentina attempt to usurp west Falkland in 1832 before mutinying and raping Esteban Mesteviers wife
3) why did Argentina attempt to usurp West Falkland in 1982 leading to the deaths of 1000 people
4) why does Argentina complain about the stealing of their “resources” when the Sealion oil discovery, the Darwin condensate discovery and the Loligo gas discovery are all closer to West Falkland?
Seems that Argentina hasn't got a consistent message has it??
Yeah, lets go back to AD 1833. It's funny that in 1833 Argentina was 1,000 miles away from the Falkland Islands, now its 300 miles away. Is Argentina being hypercritical or will it return territory to Chile, Bolivia, Uruguay, Brazil and to its indigenous population?
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@63 who the hell cares what bolivia does, doesn't or didn't think about anything? They're a right sh!t hole.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@70 Are you retarded? The principle of self-determination applies to everyone, it said so in the charter. It applies in this case, and every case. Argentina tried to get the principle of territorial integrity to somehow trump this within the context of decolonisation, and repeatedly failed. You've been told this 100 times now, and yet it seems to not get into your skull. Therefore you're probably retarded.
How do you know what they will or won't discuss? You refuse to acknowledge that they exist and your foreign diplomats refused recently to even talk to the islanders.
You keep bringing up some secret proposal without remembering the fact you turned peaceful negotiations into a war in 1982. The world changed.
You're clearly not just boring, but also very very slow.
Axel, it appears your post is inaccurate.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) the chair of the decolonisation committee made the statement as an Ecuadorian not in the UN role. Personally, I think his impartiality should have seen him fired.
2) the UN resolution expressly reference the islanders in all it's resolution TWICE. First in that any peaceful and lasting solution should respect the UN charter (all people's have the right to self determination) and again saying that the solution should respect the interests of the islanders (again, the islanders interests are best determined by whom?)
3) simply, we couldn't give a crap about the Argentine constitution. WE DON'T TRUST YOU. In living memory you invaded the Falklands at a cost of 1000 lives. blaming the Junta may suit you...but we do not accept that or trust you. Why would we with the abuse and lies coming from your President, Foreign Secretary, Defence Minister and UK ambassador?
4) the islanders are happy to discuss two outcomes. remaining a BOT and becoming fully independent. They are not prepared to talk sovereignty with Argentina, who cost the lives of 1000 people in living memory and have attempted illegal blockade of their homes.
So, as far as satisfying UN resolutions it is Argentina who are clearly in contravention of them and Britain who are in full compliance:
1) Britains solution is in full compliance of the UN charter as directed by the Resolution stipulating all people have the right to self determination. Argentina is not.
2) Britain is in full compliance in respecting the interests of the islanders. Argentina is not.
3) Britain is ensuring a peaceful and lasting solution to the dispute by providing sufficient deterrent to stop Argentina invading. Argentina has used military force in 1982 and economic blockades and violence against cruise ships in the last 2 years.
So, sadly, your wish to return to 1974 is NEVER going to happen.
@70axel
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I would like to know what kind of independence is short talking about?, doens't he remember that if the islands are still under british govt. is because of the sovereign conflict between arg. and the u. k. ”
Axel
There is no “sovereignty conflict” between UK and ARG.
The UK and the Self-governing Falklands have Sovereignty.
Argentina WANTS sovereignty.
Only ARG sees this as a “conflict”.
@Axel
“Short and all the other members of the govt. from the islands claim for dialogue, but at the same time they reject to discuss about the sovereignty which is the main problem, arguing that arg. pretends just one outcome, which according to their opinion, our country just would accept it's sovereignty over the islands, doesn't this posture of the govt. from the islands mean that for these people there is also just one outcome?,”
Falklands want “dialogue” with Argentina, as they had before '82, and they had before the Kirchners.
They are very clear that Argentina can make proposals about sovereignty to them, but they will refuse them - at this time, as is their sole prerogative.
In turn, Argentina wsnts “dialogue”, but is very clear that according to their Constitution, they cannot accept less than total sovereignty.
So, Argentina wants to do an “end run” by avoiding the Islanders (and their decision), by asking the UK to hand them over.
The UK has clearly stated that it is the Islanders decision, period!
There is no hypocrisy as Argentina and Axel suggest.
There IS a very clear message that Argentina avoids.
If the UK has sole sovereignty as Argentina says, then the UK can still make its decisions as they see fit, using whatever criteria they want to manage their affairs.
72 “Mono Darwin”
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The google translator translated Malvina East. But Bolivia spoke of “the occupation of Isla Soledad.”
Any notices -less a fool like you- that Puerto Soledad was where the Argentine authorities. Before Spanish and French before. So if your majesty pirates wanted to take ALL the Malvinas Argentinas, had to take Puerto Soledad.
Would you explain it again?
The “shortie” was the wrong place. He should go to Canada or New Zealand, maybe.
“La ocupación de la Isla Soledad, sin previo reclamo, sin alegar título alguno y sin otro apoyo que el abuso de la prepotencia.... en violación tan manifiesta del derecho de gentes hay que considerar no solo un ultraje a la República Argentina sino todas las Repúblicas Americanas”
FIG are actively looking at models around the world with parallels to our current and upcoming situation (a lot of wealth and a reliance on a larger / parent country). Bermuda has attracted a lot of interest. Another BOT and one of the richest populations per capita in the world. The UK Gov't provides their foreign affairs and defence. Defence is not seen as a big issue (no real UK military presence is required) but the Bermuda Gov't fork out a couple of million a year to pay the foreign affairs bill.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We're looking at other models but I like the Bermuda one so far. Another visit due shortly.
Another interesting point is that, despite Bermuda's wealth, the UK Gov't don't appear to be draining them of their wealth because they are simply a possession of the UK. Curious. Maybe the UK Gov't don't realise how wealthy Bermuda is. OR MAYBE, just maybe, the UK is happy for them to manage the majority of their own affairs and prosper.
Jose
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is that the same Port Soledad that had been evacuated in 1811 by the Spanish and the population transported to Montevideo to join the fight against Buenos Aires.
Is that the same Port soledad that was clearly sovereign territory of Spain and not Buenos Aires
Is that the same Port Soledad that had absolutely nobody present in it from 1811-1828 to declare independence or otherwise. From the sounds of it, it seems that they were more likely to have joined Uruguay, or stayed Spanish rather ythan Argentina.
You mean that Port Soledad
Or perhaps you mean the Port Soledad that in November 1832 was under the command of Matthew Briabane (British) when the Sarandi rapists and murderers turned up ?
(78) Joe Bloggs
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“We're looking at other models but I like the Bermuda one so far. Another visit due shortly.”
I say...:
You go and take a nice, long look at Bermuda...
There are many others doing the same...
Icarus flight, Joe......
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm130312/debtext/130312-0001.htm#130312-0001.htm_spnew48
79 MONO DARWIN
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BLA, BLA, BLA...
monkey monkeying repeat only knows.
@70 axel arg
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The right to self-determination of all peoples, guaranteed and enshrined by the UN, according to the UN Charter. Its article 1 states that “The Purposes of the United Nations are ... to develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples.”
Section 2 of Resolution 1514 (XV) states: “All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.”
There is in fact no principle in International Law or UN doctrine that can displace the inalienable right to self-determination. In this regard, in 2008, the UN 4th Committee rejected the claim that a dispute over sovereignty affected self-determination, affirming it to be a basic human right.
Question...
Do you agree that Argentina's claim is colonial?
Stevie (#18)
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'You are Brits. This is South America. End of story.'
I'm pretty sure that the amerindians said the same in North America. But that wasn't the end of their story either.
@57
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Society has become very TV oriented. People only believe what they see on TV. It used to be that if people wanted to check facts, they would go to a library or museum, but now, if they don't see it on TV, they don't believe it.
The truth is that the story of the Falkland Islands would make a marvellous documentary series. It has some of the critical elements that can only be found in films like Pirates of the Caribbean, Hornblower or Mutiny on the Bounty.
There's plenty of pirates, but unfortunately they are all Argentine. There's Jewett seizing a Portuguese & American ship, then there's Vernet seizing 3 American ships. Of course that won't go down well with American audiences, who will see modern day Argentina as nothing more than an extension of the same pirates that stole their ships in 1831.
As for the 'Argentine' military arriving in October 1832, I'm sure that audiences will be titilated (NOT) by the murder of Mestivier & rape of his wife in front of their children and the mutilation of Mestiviers corpse. Next there's the brutal mass killings that originated from a pay dispute when Vernet's representatives tried to give Rivero & his gauchos worthless paper instead of the silver which the British Captain insisted they be paid in.
Maybe we can even include an episode showing the Argentines ordering the defenceless Falkland Islanders to do what they wanted whilst aiming their automatic weapons at the Islander's children and threatening to shoot them. Maybe showing the Argentine soldiers defecating in the post office, or the Argentine officers shitting in the bath of the old pensioner couple who refused to wait on them hand and foot & serve them food whenever they wanted.
Maybe they'll show the Argentine soldiers forcing over 100 people at Goose Green at gunpoint into a small community centre for weeks with no adequate toilet facilities or food and then thieving from their homes & wrecking them.
The world will see the Argentines as the animals they are.
@ 10 Stevie
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Now I understand why you continue with your lies...”
Can you elaborate, please.
Which lies?
.
As for maps, see these **Argentine** maps:
1882, Mapa Geográfico de la República Argentina, Buenos Aires 1882. Printed in app. 120,000 copies and distributed to Argentine embassies and consulates. Many original maps still exist and they are coloured like this one - one colour for Argentina, another for not-Argentina.
http://resources21.kb.nl/gvn/KONB16/KONB16_531391442/KONB16_531391442_1_X.JPG (this original is in the Netherlands' State Library, “Koninklijke Bibliotheek” “Nationale bibliotheek van Nederland” as can be seen on the stamp and the website http://resources21.kb.nl/gvn/KONB16/KONB16_531391442/KONB16_531391442_1_X.JPG
Similarly, the map 'Limites Australes de la Republica Argentina segun el tratado de 23 de julio de 1881' (according to the treaty of 23 July 1881) does not show the Falklands Islands as part of Argentina. http://resources21.kb.nl/gvn/KONB16/KONB16_531391442/KONB16_531391442_1_X.JPG
1905, “Mapa de la División del Territorio del la República en Regiones Militares” = Argentina's military regions. please tell us where on this official map the Falklands Islands are shown. http://resources21.kb.nl/gvn/KONB16/KONB16_531391442/KONB16_531391442_1_X.JPG
10 Stevie
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting you say that:-
“It's very simple, you are Brits. Go home to Britain. The island might be populated by Argentines, Falklanders, Ghurkas, whatever. But they will never ever be British.”
Well...... Argentina was populated by spanish yes? before they came along ( and presided over the wholesale slaughter of the rightful, native, population ) so, by your own argument, that land that you call Argentina is not yours, it may be populated by Argentines but it isn't yours to call your own.......
Clown
Argentina's tax revenue is not keeping up with inflation...
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rut Ro
That means they have to print more to pay the bills
that means more inflation
that means hyperinflation very soon
Soon enough they'll forget about bothering the peaceful Falklanders
just give them a little more time to slay the harpy
Well said Nigel, the animals are retreating back to their sties! Bring the documentry on...
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree on this front Nigel. And to be honest, I like most humans find it hard not to be sick when I hear stories of the actions of real Argentines. Their behaviour is just abhorrent and they are not worthy of the term humanity.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even a stray cat would treat people better than they did and do.
@88
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The old pensioner couple had the last laugh. I'm sure you know the story, but I'll repeat it for the ones that don't.
The Argentine officers told the couple that if they did not prepare food for them, clean for them and wait on them hand and foot, then they would use the old couple's bath as a toilet and left the sh1t there so they would have to clean it up. The old pensioners refused to do as they were ordered and the Argentines proceeded to crap in the bath.
After the war was over and the Argentines had surrendered, a British officer visited the old couple to see if they needed anything. The old couple served the British officer a cup of tea.
It was raining outside and the British officer noticed that rain was coming through holes in the roof. However, the rain drops dripping down were pink. The officer asked why. The old couple explained.
During one of the recent bombardments by Royal Navy warships, a 4.5 inch shell landed in their back garden. The old gent said one of the Argentine officers was in the back garden at the time. Now half of him was still in the garden and the rest of him was in the roof!
Dover- Had we voted No then we would have been voting that we do NOT want to be a BOT- the question was perfectly clear! Had we voted NO - we would have been voting for:
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0either opening discussions with Argentina on sovereignty- as we know they refuse to discuss anything else- and they have long made it crystal clear that the only possible outcome would be full Arg sovereign control.
or a move to Independence with the result that UK would withdraw- due to the threat nobody nor the UN would want to guarantee it - so our independence would last a few weeks until Argentine forces arrived again - weak as they are, there would be nobody here to effectively stop them, our own Defence Force would put up a brave fight and no doubt kill many- but they do not have jet aircraft nor ships nor artillery!
I know what the Constitution says - and what it means - British type Constitution is different to yours - hell even in UK it is quite clear in the Lawful Constitution that the Queen can over-rule the elected Govt at any time! BUT we all know she never would- and only advises and suggests!
I actually helped write the FI one. Yes is may say the Governor can do this and that- but in practise and reality he never would - unless there was clear evidence of illegal operations/corruption etc within the elcted Govt here - its there purely as a safeguard - as used a few years ago in Turks and Caicos when their elected folks went on the fiddle.
@91 Still nonsense. What it means to be a BOT is negotiable and a No vote would have led to a discussion, that's all. As for your understanding of British constitutional niceties, let me observe that in UK the Prime Minister has executive power. In the Falklands it's the Governor, who may be appointed by the Queen but he works for the FM who works for......
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@92 That matters not. The fact is they voted for that relationship and have been through political change creating a constitution and who knows what next, that is for them to choose. The fact the referendum agreed that they wanted to keep the same relationship with the UK and through free association only serves to provide the C24 with the right to reject the referendum, and in the process it rejects the decolonisation process. It make itself remitless, which is a powerful thing for both the UK and the Islanders.
Apr 03rd, 2013 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the UK wanted bilateral talks, then they'd just send the 'british' islanders to meet with the Argentine government. Given the Argentines would even reject that, they stand there bollockless with no options of possibilities.
Seems the Argentines are on a loose, loose system and the Islanders are on a win, win. Keep up the good work Gavin and Stacey many more will be told the real truth as you progress around Latin America. Strongly suggest you both do a similar presentation in parts of Argentina while CFK is hiding from the BA masses who are struggling to survive a massive flood. Go tell them how it really is that would be a real scoop for the world press. I can almost see the headlines Argentina Outsmarted By Falkland Islanders right on their door step.
Apr 04th, 2013 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Short has a point. If the South Americans had initially been presented with both sides of the story it would be interesting to see how much 'global' support their ridiculous argument would gain. Independence should be the main goal for the Islanders, and I for one think that, given the gaseous gold mine that they are sitting on top of, an independent Falklands state would be able to kick start its economy, attracting investment. It's population could then expand and it could gain a varied economy allowing it to survive beyond the natural gas. The world really is their oyster. But until Argentina drops its sovereignty claim that can't happen. It's really quite selfish on the part of the Argies if you think about it.
Apr 04th, 2013 - 12:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0For a caricature of a British person that has been quite grumpy about money being spent on the Falklands. DoD seems quite keen to splurge more money on more voting that the people of the Falklands have already decided is not needed...
Apr 04th, 2013 - 01:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is almost as if there is an underlying agenda that is not quite logical when being put forward by a fictional character.
More work is needed on the back-story Think. DoD's reasoning conflicts with itself.
Dover - Sorry no - you are eiother a BOT - or you are Independent - or you have direct Colonial type rule from London.
Apr 04th, 2013 - 01:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Those are the 3 options all overseas British Territories (remnants of the empire) have. No doubt a bit of variation in each grade to suit the Territory concerned, but I think you will find we are at the top of the grade we are in.
And yes - of course the Governor is answerable to the British Government of the day for Defence and Foreign Affairs issues - and internal but ONLY if we screw oursleves up internally as described earlier- what is the problem with that?
It is called a B.O.T. who has developed as far as they can without moving to full Independence and who do not want to- as they simply cannot at present as somebody else would come and grab them!
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/04/03/falklands-lawmaker-regrets-south-american-leaders-take-for-granted-argentina-s-version-of-events#comment234830: So, you expect las Malvinas to remain a colony of the UK for all time?
Apr 04th, 2013 - 02:24 am - Link - Report abuse 098 Hepatia - Unlikley as we ceased to be a Colony some time ago and moved to British Overseas Territory status.
Apr 04th, 2013 - 03:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Gavin Short
Apr 04th, 2013 - 03:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0“I feel sorry because the governments of South America and in many other regions have accepted, totally, the Argentine version”
Mr. Short
You should feel sorry because the British official history have accepted, totally, the Argentine version as well.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/7331547/Official-British-history-of-the-Falklands-War-is-considered-too-pro-Argentina.html
@97 The current political relationship is defined by the 2008 Constitution. This is significantly different from say the Gibraltar Constitution yet both are BOT and Gibraltar has more autonomy short of independence . An option that would have been opened with a No vote would have been a discussion on increased constitutional autonomy. You missed it so you'll have to keep relying on the promises of politicians and the emotional support of a diminishing number of people who remember 1982. Meanwhile, UK continues to live beyond its means.
Apr 04th, 2013 - 07:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0@99 I used to own a car but now I drive around in an Automotive Transportation System.
Ah Marcos, misunderstanding a simple article I see.
Apr 04th, 2013 - 07:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0The author made factual mistakes, they were pointed out and he was happy to correct them.
It's all rather simple to understand.
@kelperabout
Apr 04th, 2013 - 08:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0“A lifestyle that is envied by many across the globe.”
Envied for your role as a pawn in a geopolitical conflict and militarization of a region? How obtuse do you have to be to believe that?
@ 101Div
Apr 04th, 2013 - 08:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0You missed it so you'll have to keep relying on the promises of politicians and the emotional support of a diminishing number of people who remember 1982.
You think so?
On Thursday 11 October we announced an additional £6million for small grants to enable young people working in their communities to explore, conserve and share local heritage of the First World War. This scheme will run for six years from early 2013.
http://www.hlf.org.uk/HowToApply/whatwefund/FirstWorldWar/Pages/FirstWorldWar.aspx
Meanwhile, UK continues to live beyond its means.
Still got money to give away, I would worry when we stop :-)
http://www.hlf.org.uk/HowToApply/whatwefund/FirstWorldWar/Pages/FirstWorldWar.aspx
@103
Apr 04th, 2013 - 08:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0How obtuse to you have to be to believe that the presence of British Defence Forces in the South Atlantic has nothing to do with Argentine belligerence?
http://www.hlf.org.uk/HowToApply/whatwefund/FirstWorldWar/Pages/FirstWorldWar.aspx
Apr 04th, 2013 - 08:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Throwing money to distort history and glorify the british aggressors?
http://www.hlf.org.uk/HowToApply/whatwefund/FirstWorldWar/Pages/FirstWorldWar.aspx
29th march 1943 when Britain bombed my cities civilians in their sleep. You will need to spend trillions to make people forget your crimes against humanity.
@106 Is that Coventry city centre?
Apr 04th, 2013 - 08:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0@106
Apr 04th, 2013 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Goodness! Why ever would we have been bombing anybody in 1943?
@106
Apr 04th, 2013 - 09:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/mar43.html
If they were that fucking stupid to live near a port or were German there aint no helping some people
28/29 March 1943
St Nazaire attacked by 323 aircraft - 179 Wellingtons, 52 Halifaxes, 50 Lancasters, 35 Stirlings, 7 Mosquitos - with most of th bombs falling on the port area. 1 Halifax and 1 Lancaster lost.
7 aircraft minelaying off St Nazaire, 5 OTU sorties. No losses.
29 March 1943
61 Venturas flew 2 raids to Rotterdam docks and 1 to a railway target at Abbeville but the weather was unfavourable and only the bombing on the second raid to Rotterdam was accurate. No Venturas lost.
29/30 March 1943
Berlin
Berlin attacked by unsuccessfully by 329 aircraft - 162 Lancasters, 103 Halifaxes, 64 Stirlings. Weather conditions were difficult, with icing and inaccurately forecast winds causing most of the bombs to fall in open countryside 6 miles south-east of Berlin. 21 aircraft - 11 Lancasters, 7 Halifaxes, 3 Stirlings - lost, 6.4 per cent of the force.
Bochum
8 Oboe Mosquitos and a 'Main Force' composed of 149 Wellingtons also visited Bochum. This raid was another failure. The night was moonless and cloudy and the Mosquitos were not able to adhere to their timetable and there were long gaps in the skymarking. 12 Wellingtons lost, 8.0 per cent of the force.
1 Mosquito to Dortmund and 7 Stirlings minelaying in the Frisians without loss.
and as for crimes against humanity how much will the Germans need to fork out
http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/mar43.html
“”@91 Still nonsense. “”
Apr 04th, 2013 - 09:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0you and the fact that everything you post is a result sock-puppetry is what is total nonsense.
crawl back into your little hole fakeman.
@106
Apr 04th, 2013 - 09:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0if Britain is so keen to “militarise the region” can you explain why there was only a tiny military defence prior to 1982 and massive one since.
Did anything happen in 1982 that perhaps suggested a military deterent was required?
Has the deterent been successful?
The deterent will be removed when the risk is removed..
We have Stevie in this thread suggesting that SA have no interest in the sovereignty dispute but “want the British out”.
The easiest and simplist way to do this, is to reject entirely the Argentine rhetoric, recognise the Falkland Islanders, open up trade and logistics and heavily lobbythe Argentine government through Mercosur and Unasor to drop their propoganda and aggressive stance.
Then the british defence could be relaxed.
Simple.
@109
Apr 04th, 2013 - 09:39 am - Link - Report abuse 029th march 1944 actually.
@112 29th march 1944 actually
Apr 04th, 2013 - 09:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Read Rail yard for port and if your German tough shit
http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/mar44.html
29/30 March 1944
76 Halifaxes and 8 Mosquitos of Nos 4, 6 and 8 Groups attacked the railway yards at Vaires, near Paris, in bright moonlight. The bombing was very accurate and 2 ammunition trains which were present blew up. 1 Halifax lost.
19 Lancasters of No 5 Group to the aero-engine factory at Lyons, which was bombed accurately. Mosquitos: 32 to Kiel, where 47 people were killed and 134 were injured, 11 to Krefeld, 5 to Aachen and 4 to Cologne. No losses.
@100
Apr 04th, 2013 - 10:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0As a typical Argentine, you've misunderstood the meaning of the article.
As it mentions, the historian says that he failed to research the events of the 18th & 19th Century thoroughly & as a result, he jumped to conclusions that were untrue & unsupported by any evidence.
One of the reasons the false propaganda has been so successful in Argentina is the failure to verify the facts with all the available evidence. As I've said before, there are documents in the Argentine National Archives, as well as London, Madrid & Washington which support the Islander's view.
The other point is that Argentines have been indoctrinated with these false facts at an early age. Many refer to this as 'brainwashing', but a more truthful description would be that the Argentines have had the false history impressed onto them by their teachers & families at an early stage. They are unwilling to accept that this history is false, because it damages the credibility of the people who taught them or the people they love.
The problem is that ever since the 1940s when this propaganda was first taught in schools, the school children back then have had children of their own, who've also had children & each generation has passed the false story on as gospel. They are unwilling to accept that the story might be false because it infers that all previous generations were gullible & foolish, accepting lies as fact when there was evidence to refute the lies at hand.
Argentines dismiss the British version of events, simply because it is the British version, unwilling to verify if the evidence is correct. That's why we need to produce a televised history, explaining all of these facts, checking them against the documents, so it is irrefutable that the British version is correct & the Argentine version is shown to be corrupted merely to fit in with their nationalistic expansionism of the 19th century.
A reputable historian would present the evidence on TV far better than any politician could.
@113
Apr 04th, 2013 - 10:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0The website doesn't talk about the 23th march 1944 bombings civilian buildings? How convenient to leave out the terror bombings of the RAF.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Sofia_in_World_War_II
“Among the historic buildings were several schools”
@ now we know where you come from we can have some fun
Apr 04th, 2013 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0UMD Calls on Bulgaria to Apologize for Deporting Macedonian Jews to Their Deaths During WWII
http://www.umdiaspora.org/index.php/en/frontpage-news/58-unity/768-umd-calls-on-bulgaria-to-apologize-for-deporting-macedonian-jews-to-their-deaths-during-wwii
@116
Apr 04th, 2013 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0It doesn't matter where i come from. What matters is that no one sides with the Falkland squatters and their British puppet masters.
@117
Apr 04th, 2013 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0You're misinformed about what matters.
When in 2008 at the UN Argentina and Spain attempted to have the right of self-determination limited in cases where there existed a territorial dispute, 40 countries voted with them, 61 against, and 47 abstained.
The 40 countries voting with Argentina included such luminous beacons of democracy as Syria, Belarus, North Korea, etc. I believe it's safe to conclude that for the most part this support was due to factors other than outrage that Argentina's implanted rapists and murderers were sent home nearly two centuries ago.
Your own country supported the Falkland squatters and their British puppet masters, by the way. Perhaps you should have a word with your MP.
@118
Apr 04th, 2013 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentina and Spain attempted to have the right of self-determination limited in cases where there existed a territorial dispute”
This is a much broader subject than ”Should the british squatters stay on the stolen islands.
Only if you can't distinguish between a general principle and a specific instance of it.
Apr 04th, 2013 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mostly this was an attempt by Spain and Argentina to get agreement that the fundamental founding principle of the UN doesn't count when it contradicts their national mythology.
The UN didn't buy it. And the point you are missing is that it contradicts your assertion that “no-one sides with the Falkland squatters and their British puppet masters.” In fact, more countries did than didn't.
Perhaps you just try rephrasing without your propaganda knee-jerk language, and you might get a grip on the situation after all.
#115
Apr 04th, 2013 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How convenient to leave out the terror bombings of the RAF.
Well, there's a thought.
I suppose that the bomb that killed my aunt and many young children sheltering in their house, in Glasgow was a “friendly” German bomb, dropped by the Luftwaffe and not meant to harm anyone.
The town of Clydebank was almost raised to the ground in two air raids in 1941 - a civilian target. You could add Plymouth, Exeter, Coventry, Warsaw and many more civilian targets to this list. How about the Condor Legion bombing the defenceless city of Guernica ? This was pure terror bombing and set the Luftwaffe's pattern for WW2.
All the UK did was to reply in kind. Precision bombing was a myth except for highly trained crews such as the Pathfinders, 617 Squadron and low level attacks flown by Mosquitos.
I will let you into a little known secret, War is extremely unpleasant and cannot be sanitised. Civilians get killed on both sides. I had several colleagues who had flown Lancasters and Mosquitos in WW2. They did not enjoy dropping bombs on cities but they were replying in kind to what the UK had been suffering since 1940.
The war is long since over and both Germany and Britain have put that history to bed - where it should be and have friendly relations.
Now, what has this to do with the subject of this forum ?
#119
How about Should the Argentinian squatters stay on the stolen lands in S.America.
@115
Apr 04th, 2013 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They fought for the axis, they got the same treatment as the rest of the axis!
You can never accuse Bomber Command of favouritism!
What do you call the German raids on Warsaw, Crackow, Rotterdam, London, Liverpool, Coventry and got knows elsewhere? Humanitarian!
“They sowed the wind, they reaped the whirlwind!”
Love the way these facists
@121
Apr 04th, 2013 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Now, what has this to do with the subject of this forum ?”
http://www.hlf.org.uk/HowToApply/whatwefund/FirstWorldWar/Pages/FirstWorldWar.aspx
It has to do with the fact that UK is spending 6 million pounds on WW1 propaganda. If they think they can sweep their crimes under the rug with cheap tricks they have another thing coming.
#124 Toby, aren't you tired now? Get into your cot and get your head down for a bit. Any othe fascist trolls want to play?
Apr 04th, 2013 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@123tuba
Apr 04th, 2013 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“www.hlf.org.uk/HowToApply/whatwefund/FirstWorldWar/Pages/FirstWorldWar.aspx
It has to do with the fact that UK is spending 6 million pounds on WW1 propaganda. If they think they can sweep their crimes under the rug with cheap tricks they have another thing coming.”
1) What does Gallipoli have to do with the Falklands and Argentine anti-British propaganda??
2) What is being “swept under the rug”
and why.
Please explain any relevance your comments have to this subject in the article???
@125 In both cases the UK is spending money to push it's own (false) version of history as fact.
Apr 04th, 2013 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0123 Tuba- funny how all on your side change topics and divert attention when you realise you are loosing the debates! For your info the Falklands will also be commemorating WW1 1914 - we plan to jointly commemorate with the German Navy - the 2 great battles fought down this way- Coronel off southern Chile where the German fleet sank the British fleet and 2000 men - and then the Falklands Battle where honours were evened and the British sank the German fleet and about 2000 men. And it is Commemoration you see - not celebration-honour and respect for both sides - who are now close allies.
Apr 04th, 2013 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A concept I suspect is beyond you though.
@126 Tuba Toby Troll
Apr 04th, 2013 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”@125 In both cases the UK is spending money to push it's own (false) version of history as fact.“
Poor attempt at deflection and linking two unrelated events and program's.
Again, ”what is being swept under the rug“ and why?
Your link relates to funding for historical research of an event 200 years ago, that is already acknowledged by Britsin as bring grossly mis-managed.
That is something that Britain has revealed to all and they have learned from it.
So, no ”false history” or propaganda, or sweeping anything under the rug.
As to anything else, now that they have a well-documented and independently confirmed Referendum, the Falklanders are publicising their results and giving educational seminars that refute the Argentinean propaganda of the past 70 years, all backed up with documentation from several international sources.
Questions and debate are encouraged, as well as conversations with politicians, academics, and historians of your traditional allies.
Sorry you don't like that
PS. You need to get out more.
101 Doveoverdover (#)
Apr 04th, 2013 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apr 04th, 2013 - 07:08 am
“... @99 I used to own a car but now I drive around in an Automotive Transportation System.”
Don't tell me you've sold the Disco!!!!!!!
@127 I have expressed my thoughts on the commemoration on a previous thread and I thoroughly agree wih the idea,
Apr 04th, 2013 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is honourable about sending untrained conscipts from tropical Corrientes to the Falklands and then teaching them that the Post Office is a latrine
@129 OK, I won't
Apr 04th, 2013 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@67 So what? So, in 1833, the “Chancellor of Bolivia” was as thick as so many latino “presidents” today. I notice you don't provide links to any independent sources. Who gives a toss? Bolivia is like a gnat. It can be “swatted” in minutes. I've been looking at the Bolivian military. Have I got the translations right? The “Ejercito” = the “ejected”. And the two “Fuerza” = the “ferns”. Useful for driving over or for bedding. Bolivia! Stevie's accommodating arse.
Apr 04th, 2013 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@70 Wow! Your prattishness reaches new heights. Nobody gives a shit what your argie-bribed “decolonisation committee” thinks or says. Amazingly, nobody gives a shit about what the argie oft-ignored “constitution” or the argie “government” (current bunch of gangsters) says. In fact, no-one of any importance gives a shit about anything from argieland. Just as a comment, axel. You're a real moron.
@71 So your “lifetime” is short? Goodie!
@77 Could you translate “Isla Soledad”? Seems a little different from “Puerto Soledad”. In any event, it doesn't matter. 1982. Uti possidetis. End of story.
@81 1945 Hiroshima, Nagasaki. 2013 - Buenos Aires. You think?
@92 Oh shut up. You are incredibly tiresome. If you need to irrigate someone's arse, go see Stevie. He likes it. He begs for it. He backs on to it. Have you got more than an inch (length)? He's picky. Be careful. If you've only got an HB, you'll get lost in the cavern.....cavern.....cavern.....
@106 Oh dear. We bombed your cities' civilians in their sleep? And you were allies of the nazis? And we missed you? So sorry. Come to Britain. Personal service. We'll cut your throat personally. About 20 minutes after we cut your balls off. Oh, and thanks for your women. Good shags can be hard to come by. I think I can do 2 or 3 dozen. Per day. What do you reckon? Do you understand “deep throat”? Sub-human “female” survival is not an essential. But have you told them to be ready for 8 at a time? Every 15 minutes. Give or take. Should be an “opener” for your slags!
(101) Mr McDod
Apr 04th, 2013 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your today's analogy about the difference between a “Colony” and a “BOT” (Too difficult for Turnip (129) to understand)...:
“I used to own a car but now I drive around in an Automotive Transportation System.”
An analogy I tried long ago to exemplify the difference between a “Colony” and a “BOT” (The Turnips didn’t get that one either)...:
My car is not an Opel…………….. It’s a Vauxhall.
@133thinkedover
Apr 04th, 2013 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”(The Turnips didn’t get that one either)...:“
In other words, ”my Dame Dover remark didn't get enough attention, I'd better jump online as 'think', reinforce my smug cleverness, and bait them for a response”.
Same thing, right?
http://www.clarin.com/politica/Mujica-Cristina-vieja-peor-tuerto_0_895110696.html
Apr 04th, 2013 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very interesting!
The islands are british,, full stop.
Apr 04th, 2013 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@133
Apr 04th, 2013 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So how did Argentina stop being a colony of Spain then?
Did the implanted squatter population, who were responsible for the genocide of the indigenous people, use the basic human right of self-determination, to seperate themselves from their “colonial yoke”?
This basic right that you deny the islanders because..(I'm not sure which argument you are using this week)
1) they took the land by force (as did those claiming independence in Argentina)
2) they are implanted (as were those in Argentina claiming independence)
3) there is a sovereignty claim from someone else (except you massacred most of them)
4) the land is closer to a bigger neighbour (fine Argentina is part of Brazil)
So, the very self-determination you would deny the islanders is the EXACT right that was used in Argentina in 1814. The difference of course as shown in your National Archives (LOL) is that the islanders ancestors did not commit genocide to steal the land, the islanders ancestors removed no indigenous population.
So, it could certainly be strongly supported that the islands have a greater right to self-determination than the Argentines in 1814.
Sadly, you would deny them the rights and wish to see them evicted from their homes.
It makes your morality and humanity 200 years out of date.
if you and dickupyourarse cannot see the varying levels of autonomy and devolution afforded to various BOTs, Crown Dependancies and States of the UK, really it's your problem. Perhaps you are a bit thick, think.
#123
Apr 04th, 2013 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It has to do with the fact that UK is spending 6 million pounds on WW1 propaganda. If they think they can sweep their crimes under the rug with cheap tricks they have another thing coming.”
What “crimes” are we sweeping under the carpet. Give us examples of these in WW1. You must have dozens of authenticated examples to share with us, or HEAVEN FORFEND, you may just be mouthing off !
#126
” In both cases the UK is spending money to push it's own (false) version of history as fact.“
OK, enlighten us on what false version of history in WW1 are the British pushing ? You seem to be the current Argie military historian so I am sure that the world is waiting with baited breath to hear the pearls of wisdom from your extensive research on the subject.
My post #121 your”reply“ at 123
Are you still saying that it was the RAF only that applied ”TERROR BOMBING“ You quote Sofia as an example and the picture you referred to looks like light damage to me.
In Clydebank of the 12,ooo houses in the town, only 7 were left undamaged !!!! Even well into the 1950's there were still bombed sites to be seen.
What do you think the Lufwaffe did to cities in the Soviet Union -- drop food parcels ?
Your obvious burning hatred for the UK shows in every one of your posts. Luckily we are a phlegmatic race and Latino inspired histrionics bounce of our broad shoulders.
It's a compliment really that you take so much time and effort to try and rile us, but, to paraphrase Rhett Butler in Gone with the Wind......”WE DON'T GIVE A DAMN” what ill informed argie trolls think. Sudden thought, can they think ?
“””@125 In both cases the UK is spending money to push it's own (false) version of history as fact.“”“
Apr 04th, 2013 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DOes that include your little ”gem“ on another thread where you said that the Argentine Junta was funded by the USA & UK and therefore they were responsible for the deaths of 30,000 Argentines....?
Because, well, you know... in terms of ”re-writing history“ thats a pretty BIG one.
------------
”“”“In other words, ”my Dame Dover remark didn't get enough attention, I'd better jump online as 'think', reinforce my smug cleverness, and bait them for a response”.
Same thing, right?”“”
Yup, they use the accounts to try to firm-up each others startlingly inaccurate, naive and inane points.
Clearly they like firming each other up - even though they are on the same computer... soon we will hear more about DoVerThunks visit to his local British Legion (the one where he attended a previous function that didnt actually happen) whilst looking at a ship in the harbour (that was miles away at the time) in a Britain that is Roman Catholic..
Sock-puppeting eejits the one of them.
The only people who are pushing,
Apr 04th, 2013 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0are the brain dead argies on their leaders orders.
so keep pushing,
and deserve what you get.
I like the short-changed, bitter, under compensated, disillusioned, curmudgeonly, ex-serviceman pensioner, yet he boasts of his Discovery 4!
Apr 04th, 2013 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I suppose he couldn't resist contradicting the original image of his caricature, and chose to portray the image of a “wealthy, very British patriot, to be envied.”
@133 Great to have you back in close support; the turnips had nearly driven me back into the palisade with their monotonous, meaningless chant.
Apr 04th, 2013 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“No British Legion Function, no Cruise Ship in Harbour, No Popery in Britain, Whoop, Whoop”.
curmudgeonly,
Apr 04th, 2013 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0caricature,
Definitely not Argentinean dysfunctional
Polycarbonate educated then lol.
ooollllh DoverThunks getting tetchy ;-0
Apr 04th, 2013 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0all sensitive and antsy that hes been outed again... poor little lambykins.
hes been outed again
Apr 04th, 2013 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yep,
like all spots and boils, squeeze em hard enough,
and the rotton poison always comes screaming out..lol
@141 I like you too.
Apr 04th, 2013 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@142thinkedover
Apr 04th, 2013 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0““No British Legion Function, no Cruise Ship in Harbour, No Popery in Britain, Whoop, Whoop”.”
As an Opel by any other name, I'll take this to mean, “I have no idea how to explain or deny this, Amigos!”
“”“I like the short-changed, bitter, under compensated, disillusioned, curmudgeonly, ex-serviceman pensioner, yet he boasts of his Discovery 4!
Apr 04th, 2013 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I suppose he couldn't resist contradicting the original image of his caricature, and chose to portray the image of a “wealthy, very British patriot, to be envied.””“”
thats rather amusing ;-)
he needs to add “forgetful” though: its his best chance of covering up the multiple cockups and memory lapses “he” keeps having... like the “I forgot Britain isnt Roman Catholic”...
at least if hes on the Road Dementia he's got a half-plausible excuse...
(mind you I wouldn't really class a discovery 4 as indicating wealth - its not exactly swish... now if I pull up in my DB7 then you'd be talking about an automobile that says something more than “grandad mobile”)
(Every 4x4 in these parts is driven by half-blind pensioners afraid to get their rims dirty so they drive down the middle of the track in a 4x4 and expect me to hug the ditch - i dont think so!)
@Anbar
Apr 04th, 2013 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Forgetful” LOL!!
As to Disco 4, you are correct, but it would be a recent purchase, British, iconic, more desirable than older versions, and out of reach of most “retired servicemen”.
However, point taken :-D
It is probably very desirable in Argentina!!
DB 7 - very nice!
I don't think that Thinkedover is un agente secreto, just a cyber agent.
@106 Tubalcain Alhambra
Apr 04th, 2013 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You've posted a photo claiming “29th march 1943 when Britain bombed my cities civilians in their sleep”.
While I marvel at your ability to look at a photo and determine what time a bomb was dropped and by whom I should point out that the first allied bombing raids on Bulgaria took place on 14 November 1943.
Now I'm not suggesting for one moment that you aren't who you claim to be but surely a “Bulgarian”, especially one who seems rather uptight about events that happened 70 years ago, would get such fundamental details right?
With made up facts, a fondness for the past and nonsensical ramblings about the British I might begin to think you aren’t Bulgarian at all but rather an Argentine posing as a Bulgarian in a desperate attempt to convince people the Europeans are behind Argentina after all. LOL.
@150 Lou Spoo: Since quite a few Bulgarians are about to become very anglisied, I'm not that surprised that an Argentinean would try to dig some dirt.
Apr 04th, 2013 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately for Argentineans, that vast majority of Europeans do not take things to heart if they happened around the same time as the battle of Waterloo...Castille is the exception that springs to mind...so what are the chances Tubalcain Alhambra have ancestors from there?
@Lou Spoo
Apr 04th, 2013 - 11:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“With made up facts, a fondness for the past and nonsensical ramblings about the British I might begin to think you aren’t Bulgarian at all but rather an Argentine posing as a Bulgarian in a desperate attempt to convince people the Europeans are behind Argentina after all. LOL.”
Ha ha Lou Spoo!!!!
Now, who do we know who is
Argentinian?
Fondness for the Past?
Is Wiki-whore?
Likes 'Role-playing'?
Likes attention?
Is desperate to show Argentina has 'support'?
Is conspicuously absent?????
C'mon, help me somebody!
Nostroll, can you guess?
Arifu, any ideas?
TTT, who springs to mind?
Pope John Troll III - any divine inspiration???
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/04/03/falklands-lawmaker-regrets-south-american-leaders-take-for-granted-argentina-s-version-of-events#comment235068: But that is nothing more than a semantic move. The fact is that the people currently squatting on las Malvinas voted to remain “British” and a colony of the UK.
Apr 05th, 2013 - 03:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0@153 Hepatia
Apr 05th, 2013 - 06:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0More importantly there was nothing in the vote about them showing the slightest inclination to be Argentine or a colony if Argentina.
Seems you support their vote.
Thank you.
@153 Hepatia
Apr 05th, 2013 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Encuesta revela que si les preguntaran si querrían ser británicos, porteños votarían igual que kelpers en referéndum”
“el 65 por ciento de los porteños ”haría lo que venga“ para tener la ciudadanía inglesa.”
Survey reveals that if they were asked if they would be British, the porteños (people living in Buenos Aires) would vote like the kelpers in a referendum.
65% of the porteños would do what it takes to become British.
revistabarcelona.com.ar/encuesta-revela-que-si-les-preguntaran-si-querrian-ser-britanicos-portenos-votarian-igual-que-kelpers-en-referendum/
SHED TIME. MONKEY MAGIC. TROY TOMPEST. STEVE-33-UK.
Apr 05th, 2013 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As i said in another comment, everything i say is based on objetive facts, not on opinions or speculations. You and everybody else have right to think wether self determination is applicable or not for this case, opinions are free, however, if you had unless a little of intellectual honesty, you would realize that the application of that principle for this cause is hightly arguable.
In your answers, you are just telling what is convenient for you, this is evident that you suffer also of fragil memories, like short and company.
For being honest, i have never denied that perhaps the right to self determination is applicable for the people from the islands, in fact i said it in many of my comments, however because of the u. n.'s posture i have always had serious doubts about the application of that right for this case.
If it soposes that self determination is perfectly applicable for this cause, then why has this case always been considered like a special colonial situation by the d. c. from the u. n.?, why hasn't the u. n. never applied that principle in any of the resolutions that were expressed for this case, in contrary to it's application for other colonial situations?. In fact, you don't need to believe what i say, just get into u. n.'s website and you'll see that you won't find any resolution which says: application of the right to self det. for the population from the malvinas-falkland islands.
On the other hand, if it soposes that self determination is applicable for the islanders, then why did the president from th d. c. explained twice in 9 months the reasons why that principle is not applicable for this case?. I must confess that i couldn't stop laughing when i read monkey's comments in reference to the president from the d. c., it wasn't serious.
Anyway, i respect your opinions, but i don't agree on them.
(155) St.John
Apr 05th, 2013 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I 've noticed that you have commented a couple of times on the link below as if it was a “Serious Source of Information”……........
http://revistabarcelona.com.ar/encuesta-revela-que-si-les-preguntaran-si-querrian-ser-britanicos-portenos-votarian-igual-que-kelpers-en-referendum/
Just for your info……...................., The Argentinean Revista Barcelona is an Ironic/Humoristic publication in the same stile as the English ”Daily Mash” or the American ”The Onion”…….
Is it from those sources you get your “Malvinas Issue” information?
What a Turnip...........
@157 I've noticed two.....
Apr 05th, 2013 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2013/04/03/falkland-islands-success-in-colombia-debate-at-leading-university-and-speech-before-congress#comment235742
Revistabarcelona is in complete accordance with the number of Argentines who do all they can to get a passport from the country in which their parents and/or grandparents are born.
Apr 05th, 2013 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel
Apr 05th, 2013 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly, you do not post facts, you post opinions...e.g.
“both the British and Argentine arguments have strong and weak elements”
That is your opinion. My opinion is wholly different. However, I am happy to admit that it is my opinion and not ( unlike you state it as fact)
Now, as far as the decolonisation committee is concerned, again your “facts” are misleading. You are quoting the Ecuadorian chair of the committee, not any official position.
You also fail to realise that self - determination is a right to all people's, even those on stolen territories like Argentina.
(159) St.John
Apr 06th, 2013 - 06:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0How does that Shakespearian quote you English keep misquoting go?
Ohhhhhh yeahhhhh.............. :
“The lady doth protest too much, methinks”
@157 Think:Regarding your link
Apr 06th, 2013 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0revistabarcelona.com.ar/encuesta-revela-que-si-les-preguntaran-si-querrian-ser-britanicos-portenos-votarian-igual-que-kelpers-en-referendum/
Is an obsession with turnips an Argentinean thing, this comment from the above article mentions them as well...
'18 marzo, 2013 de 1:22jajaj me encanto la nota, que acertado fito al decir que la mitad de los porteños les da asco y pensar que se creen super vivos e inteligentes, desde la capital salen idolos como cristian U wanda nara, gran hermano hace un rating y no olvidemos al rey tinelli, como no se dan cuenta los porteños que son mas nabos que muchos si lo eligieron a macri como su gobernate jaja eso ya dice todo
ResponderMauro'
MONKEY MAGIC.
Apr 08th, 2013 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Accept them or not, what i said in my comment 156 is based on objetive facts. Beside, everybody give opinions, it's obvious, but the difference among some of you and me, is that i don't tell just what is convenient for me.
In reference to self determination, you already know what's my posture about it. However, you fail to realise that despite the genocide that our country committed against some originary populations, our constitution includes their rights and claims, which is a historic reparations, despite all the serious problems that those people still have, and the harass that some of their populations sometimes suffer by powerful masters who want to expeal them from their lands, in order to plant soya.
However, the u. k. has never made any historic reparation for having deprived arg. from the islands in 1833, and rejects sistematicly to resume the negotiations with arg. in order to find a solution for this conflict.
@163axel
Apr 10th, 2013 - 05:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0“However, the u. k. has never made any historic reparation for having deprived arg. from the islands in 1833, and rejects sistematicly to resume the negotiations with arg. in order to find a solution for this conflict.”
Axel,
You are repeating that same droning monologue.
UK will not negotiate the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and its people.
ARGENTINA must talk to the FALKLAND ISLANDERS to discuss Sovereignty.
Your rant is always the same and the answer does not change.
The answer is the same, whether you continue to treat your aboriginal people dreadfully, regardless of your Constitution, or you learn to treat them properly.
That is solely up to you, and IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FALKLAND ISLANDS.
Sorry, same answer. You are talking to the wrong people - the UK will only abide by the Falklanders wishes - it is their community, their culture, their home, their land.
end.
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