MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Malvinas' globe in UK stores triggers strong reactions from Falklands’ veterans
It’s not the first time it has happened mainly in Argentina where maps, stationery, climate and navigational charts and even school books related to the Islas Malvinas have been found referred and printed as the Falkland Islands to the fury of the Kirchner ‘Penguin’ governments. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesStorm in a teacup.
May 13th, 2013 - 05:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Unless CFK will purchase one to plonk down on the desk at the next C24.
“Stationery”, not “Stationary”. Tsk, tsk.
May 13th, 2013 - 05:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Vintage-inspired” or Fantasy as it is more commonly known.
May 13th, 2013 - 06:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Vintage inspired is ok, between 1770 and 1811 the Islas Malvinas was probably the correct name as the only civilian population was Spanish, not withstanding the British plaque at Port Egmont.
May 13th, 2013 - 06:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0As we know, these Spanish settlers voluntarily left the islands and went to Montevideo to fight the beginnings of the Buenos Aires uprising, and there was nobody left on the islands between 1811-1828 to self-determine independence, status quo, or choose to be part of Mars....just two plaques claiming British or Spanish sovereignty...Nothing Argentine.
However, for this globe to be properly vintage inspired other changes would need to be made to reflect the late 1700s. Firstly, Patagonia would need to be shown as not part of Argentina (perhaps called the pre-genocide independent state of Patagonia, prior to a blatant act of 19th century Argentine colonialism)...I'm not sure all that would fit on the globe.
Again, for vintage expired, to reflect the 18th century, the Viceroy should shown, not the “independent” states. These usurped territories full of implanted populations need to be clearly identified.
After all, history is a wonderful thing..especially in Argentina, where you can make it up, ignore the bits you don't like, and pretend to be the victim.
Lol
Anyone can make a mistake.
May 13th, 2013 - 07:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0And it came from lndia, the article said.
Most lndians probably have never heard of Argentina(lucky them!)
And John Lewis is doing something positive about it(they said).
I can understand Simon Weston getting upset & l don't blame him one little bit.
There are of course, forces that would like to whitewash Argentina's despicable rôle in all this & we must always be on our guard.
Has anyone complained to Ban Ki Moon yet?
May 13th, 2013 - 08:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good curiousity item for collectors investment -as depicting an Argentine government Fantasy.
May 13th, 2013 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0The John Lewis chain is owned by its own employees - they are all deemed to be “partners”. John Lewis and its supermarkets, Waitrose, are favoured by the “chattering classes” - very middle class. Their customers are not very likely to boast of a recently manufactured(in India!) globe in their sitting rooms much less with “Malvinas” describing the Falkland Islands. Maybe we should all subscribe to the cost of one of these “Malvinas” globes and present it to the “trolly dolly”, Alicia Castro, the non-diplomat who is alleged to be the Argentine Ambassador to the Court of St James.
May 13th, 2013 - 08:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure whoever the buyer was from London and probably not a UK national, would not have given it a second thought when they got them in bulk from India, so long as the person is sacked and they all end up burnt, then the problem is solved.
May 13th, 2013 - 08:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Stupid bungles that happen from time to time on both sides - agree with 9. had similar with my Credit card compant onec- simply refused to pay them until they changed the address - eventually they did and apologised for the computer glitch.
May 13th, 2013 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wow..I think Britain should invade..!!
May 13th, 2013 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyone can make a mistake - so correct the mistake already! India is a manufacturing and political powerhouse so the message needs to get through to them too.
May 13th, 2013 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But how many people will buy those globes and actually look at them in detail compared to Google Maps
- AND IT IS GOOGLE MAPS THAT MUST BE SHAMED AND NAMED AS A CO-CONSPIRATOR WITH CFK TO “RE-LABLE” THE FALKLANDS!!
GO TO THIS GOOGLE MAPS LINK AND *ZOOM IN* TO SEE “ARGENTINE SEA” APPEARING RIGHT NEAR YORKE BAY: http://goo.gl/maps/FPCHz
WTF??
THE MARITIME TERRITORY AROUND THE FALKLANDS IS MOST CORRECTLY “THE FALKLANDS SEA” - ALL OF IT! NONE IS “ARGENTINE SEA” (GAG!).
GOOGLE MAPS - SHAPE UP!
Another CFK conspiracy stopped in its tracks, lol.
May 13th, 2013 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And yes google should know better,
But does anyone care, we doubt it,
But then again, IF a British manufacturer made a globe that had Argentina as a British south Atlantic territory,
Boy would the shit hit the fan.
We live in a two faced money grabbing business articulated world.
Cough cough. Wink wink.
.
No reason to trouble when is to THE TRUTH: The Malvinas Islands, South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands are Argentine.
May 13th, 2013 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A country like India, which suffered the brutality colonizing pirate, knows it very well.
A drawing on an Indian globe is the closest anyone's going to get to your version of the truth, Jose.
May 13th, 2013 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 014 José Malvinero (#)
May 13th, 2013 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May 13th, 2013 - 02:37 pm
Funny thing, José, on the “globe” both te South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands are shown as “British”, not Argentine and the Falkland Islands are coloured differently to “Argentina” which shows that the Indians only erred over the name of the Islands but they did get the name of the capital right!!!!!!
@14
May 13th, 2013 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That right, well tomorrow when I go out for lunch with my friend Gurbut Singh, I will profusely apologise to him for brutalising him. Will not bother telling you is reply. He lives in this world, not in yours.
Damn don't you lot ever get pissed off with living in the past? Silly question really? Seeing how your future looks!
@14 - seek help immediately
May 13th, 2013 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0India is an excellent example given by Jose Malvinero.
May 13th, 2013 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When the British Empire controlled India, through expedience it used its base in Bombay to administer Aden, hundreds of miles away across open seas.
Upon Independence, India never once considered Aden to be “part of India”, nor thought that it was their “god given right”. Nor did India seek to colonise all lands between itself and Aden, by massacring the indigenous population in a “conquest of the desert”.
India today has excellent relations with the UK and is one of, if not the key member of the Commonwealth.
yes, Jose Malvinero, Argentina has a lot to learn from India.
I am Welsh, those English swines raped and murdered my country.
May 13th, 2013 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No fuck off, none of my neighbours did that. You silly RG plonkers, try looking around and living where you are today! You might find that it helps.
MercoPress FASCIST CENSORSHIP EXERCISES TO THINK FOR PEACEFUL CLAIMS OF ARGENTINA.
May 13th, 2013 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately, Mercopress removed my IDE and password to review not my view.
Raul2 use my name as an alternative to continue reviewing with respect and dignity as any human.
Thank you very much.
14 José malvinero
Gradually the truth prevails over falsehood English colonialism and imperialism century.
Soon the world will recognize maps to the Malvinas Islands, South Georgia and South Sandwich sovereignty as Argentina.
Jose malvinero is absolutely right. Little by little the world and world public opinion recognize the justice and legality that the islands belong to Argentina.
India and the entire Asian continent and African genocide well know English as well as racism, colonialism and imperialism in the UK.
No wonder India is part of the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) against English colonialism and imperialism century.
Just look at the movie Ghandi English comprovar genocide.
Always keep em that the specificity of the Malvinas Question is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity Argentina. Is ruled out then the possibility of applying the principle of self-determination, as its exercise by the islanders, cause the “disruption of the national unity and territorial integrity” of Argentina. In this regard it should be noted that Resolution 1514 (XV) “Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples” states in paragraph six that “Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the United Nations Charter ”.
Copy, paste, boring!
May 13th, 2013 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 014 José Malvinero
May 13th, 2013 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0changy subjecty again,
tell us why you think it all belongs to argentina,
as for india, just another exuse by argies to avoid the truth.
Rail 2
May 13th, 2013 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice, you resorted force of arms in 82 to solve the so called problem and lost.
Now for god sake, show some honour, you lot are really sad, I mean really sad!
Pathetic, the school yard bully whining cos he got his arse spanked!
yes
May 13th, 2013 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0begging outside the UN really humiliating for you lot.
What do expect from a bunch of shits that declared war against nazi Germany, just so they could be the last to join the UN. Someone must have forgot to tell them the UN could not exchange Reichmarks!
May 13th, 2013 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poor Argies,
May 13th, 2013 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Conquers of a lost world
And as popular as rabies..lol.
RG bites a rabid dog, poor dog, must have caught something!
May 13th, 2013 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The globe article is trivial. A tiny victory for argentina? Barrel scrapings, nothing more.
May 13th, 2013 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is better to build bridges to help each other.
May 13th, 2013 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Discover that we have much in common.
Destroy the wall.
1 Anglotino . Quiet right a storm in a tea cup . Somebody made a stupid mistake and it will be withdrawn . John Lewis is a first class retailer who makes money while others founder . Incidentally it is owned by all the employees . They just had a very good year and the profits were shared by all workers . They all received the same amount , from CEO to the bathroom attendant !
May 13th, 2013 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We could all put on our Argie hats, and do that Malvanist thing, go and torch the offending John Lewis stores :-)
May 13th, 2013 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Next year Commonwealth Games in Glasgow. 54 nations attending, Rgland not invited. A few countries not colonised by Britain belong to the Commonwealth and requested membership. Britain has no friends, Raul and Josey? Where are Rglands friends - Communist Cuba, Venezuala, Iran? Please tell me more? Pariah corrupt crime ridden nutjob ruled by crooks, riven with crime, financial basket case. Who on earth would want to be associted with a country like Rgland?
May 13th, 2013 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@21
May 14th, 2013 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0“always keep em that the specificity of the Malvinas Question is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and”
The specifity is that you are an ignorant prat as a cursory glance at history tells us that all of the original population except for 4 stayed on in 1833.
Pete Bog: Of course, expel soldiers with their wives and children, with the intention to settle and live in the islands is not a crime. True?
May 14th, 2013 - 12:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0In Memoriam.
que linda carita le quedó al gil ese...
May 14th, 2013 - 02:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is good that our British friends in Britain start learning the real name of the Argentinian islands.
May 14th, 2013 - 04:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0M A L V I N A S
Got it?
Good.
@35
May 14th, 2013 - 06:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0When those soldiers were warned before they set out three months earlier that they would be expelled..no its not a crime
When those soldiers had already committed mutiny, murdered their captain, and raped his wife in front of their children...no its not a crime
When those soldiers were peacefully requested to leave, without a shot being fired...no its not a crime
When those soldiers were trying to do exactly the same thing that Argentina blames Britain for...which is to deny the sovereignty claims of the other party...no its not a crime.
So expelling a murdering, raping 50-strong militia, who'd only been there two months, tried to deny British historical rights, just like you warned them you would...not a crime
Get it? Good.
Oh! poor Britons
May 14th, 2013 - 07:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Even India is making fun of them...
No economy, no jobs, no Strong Bpound, no AAA to borrow, no Army, no Royal Funny, no Royal Mal?, no carriers, no planes and now no globe with FI on it.
Its is no so sad?
I really think I'm going to cry for these stupids idiots...
Is that I am becoming susceptible after so many post on MP?
I just can't get enough...
How the idiots can stand all this humiliation?
However, whilst my post @38 points out what wasn't a crime..we can of course point out what was.
May 14th, 2013 - 09:03 am - Link - Report abuse 01) The murder of Esteban Mestevier by Argentine militia
2) The rape of Mrs Mestevier by Argentine militia
3) The murder of Matthew Brisbane by Riviero
4) The invasion of the islands in 1982 by Argentina
5) the indiscriminate planting of minefields in 1982 by Argentina
6) The use of civilians as a human shield in 1982 by Argentina
7) The violation of binding UN resolutions by Argentina.
Heck, The Argentines/UP have only been on the islands for 4 months in history and all these horrific crimes have been perpertrated.
Together with the rank hypocrisy of claiming that the British actions in 1833 “were a crime” (which they werent), but ignoring their own genocidal colonialist expansion into patagonia in the 1880s.
My goodness...
@37;
May 14th, 2013 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0The name Falkland Islands existed around ninety years before any human being uttered the word 'malvinas'.
It's actually a Spanish bastardisation of the French 'Malouines' - Named after St Malo in NW France.
39 DanyBerger
May 14th, 2013 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You haven't got any of those things and you seem to be standing any amount of humiliation. Including being defied and humbled by 3000 Falkland Islanders. How does that feel?
What is a 'Royal funny' and a 'Royal mal' anyway? I'm sure we'd be worried if we knew what they were.
Poor Dany
May 14th, 2013 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No economy, no jobs, no currency $1.00 -10.4 Pesos, CCC- to borrow, no Army, no Navy, no Air force, Royal Funny (Queen Christina) !, no Royal Mal? (not understood,incomprehensible English), no carriers, no planes and still no chance of stealing the Falklands, S.Georgia and S. Sandwich Islands.
Now crawling up China's nether extremities for a handout.
It must make you glow with pride to be associated with such a sad, sorry third rate country. The Girl Guides could make a better job of running your country.
@29
May 14th, 2013 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly, corrupting globes and maps is as ineffectual as having a dream-the Islands still belong to the Falklnd Islanders.
@30
“It is better to build bridges to help each other.
Discover that we have much in common.
Destroy the wall.”
Excellent sentiments. But until Argentina talk to the Islanders instead of burying their heads in the sand to deny they exist, the wall will remain.
The Argentine government is the wall. And it's costing Argentina $millions in lost revenue. The Falklands are getting richer-even without Argentina.
@35
“intention to settle and live in the islands is not a crime”
When the British left in January 1833, the majority of inhabitants welcomed to stay were South American (2 British residents out of 22). If Rivero had not engaged in murder later that year , the British would have left the settlers (mostly of South American origin) alone.
You may have forgotten that most of the military expelled in 1833 were as aresult of the British (who you forget conviniently had claimed the Islands since 1690), objecting in Buenos Aires to the military garrison.
As the garrison (which was a penal colony, not a commercial one like Vernet's) did not withdraw it was hardly a suprise when Britain asked it to leave
. You seem to forget that most of Pinedo's men did not put up a fight as they were British-so actually the majority of the UP forces ejected were of British,origin not of South American origin.
So even in those days you could not do without brits as there were British people who joined Vernet's multinational community in the 1820s.
Also see @38 which points out the obvious. and @40 which points out the extensive crimes carried out by the UP militia-but I take it murder and rape are not crimes in Argentina.
@41-Good point, a name which Argentina changed again before the 'v' was added.
@39
“Even India is making fun of them...”
That's no problem for us, we have a saying'if you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined.'
@38,40, A simple answer: internal problems of Argentina.
May 14th, 2013 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0P & P brainwashing. They hide to the people the history of the islands.
Malvinas Islands map. Governor Phelipe Ruiz Puente 1768.
http://www.bne.es/es/Micrositios/Guias/12Octubre/resources/images/MR_42_399_g.jpg
@45
May 14th, 2013 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody disputes the Spanish settlement on the Falklands (nor indeed the British settlement) in the 1700s.
Nobody disputes that the Spanish called it Malvinas either.
Where the dispute lies is that both the Spanish and the British settlements withdrew voluntarily years before Argentina (or the United Provinces of River Plate) claimed Independence.
The premise of your argument is that in 1814 the people of the United Provinces used the principle of self determination to claim the lands that they lived in from the Spanish crown (something the Spanish didn't recognise until 20 years later). Simultaneously, they were able to claim sovereignty of an island group 1000 miles away that had no population to determine whether they wanted independence or not.
Not only that, you premise is that this sovereignty passed to Argentina, as opposed to Uruguay where the last Spanish civilians had headed on their withdrawal, or indeed Chile which was 1000 miles closer.
Further to your premise, if it were true (which of course it is bollocks), then there would be no need for the Jewitt/Vernet fairy tales which Argentina try to use to claim it established sovereignty a decade or more later. It would also mean that Argentina was deliberately ignoring the British claim...so they can hardly claim foul if Britain did the same.
So, you are talking bollocks.
Spain shared sovereignty with Britain in the 1700s. Argentina NEVER inherited that sovereignty (there was nobody there to become independent from anyone). Argentina tried to steal the islands in November 1832 and Britain removed them. They tried to steal them again in 1982 with the same outcome.
You see, not Brainwashing.
When the USA claimed independence it didn't automatically get every island within 1000 miles formally owned by the previous colonial state, neither did India, nor Australia, Nor importantly did Mexico, Chile or Uruguay.
You talk of building bridges. Afford the FIs the same rights you had in 1814.
Perhaps to save face,
May 14th, 2013 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina should unite with Spain,
Think of the benefits
You can now claim all of Europe,
Oh
And Africa.
Unite with IRAN or North Korea,
You can claim the whole world.
Still
You are allowed to dream lol.
.
Argentina can claim the world's best expertise on:
May 14th, 2013 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. How to lie with maps
2. How to lie with stamps
3. How to lie with posters
4. How to lie with Geography
5. How to lie with History
Etc.
Philippe
@39 DanyVerga “No economy, no jobs, no Strong Bpound, no AAA to borrow, no Army, no Royal Funny, no Royal Mal?, no carriers, no planes and now no globe with FI on it.”
May 14th, 2013 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I asked you several days ago where you obtained this misinformation and you declined to answer. Can I be hopeful that you will now tell us?
THE MALVINAS ARE ARGENTINE, and this is the list of Spanish and Argentine governors until piratical usurpation of 1833:
May 15th, 2013 - 12:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0SPANISH
1767-1773 F. Ruiz Puente
1773-1774 D. Chauri
1774-1777 F. Gil y Lemos y Taboada
1777-1779 R. Carassa y Souza
1779-1781 S. de Medina y Juan
1781-1783 J. M. del Carmen Altolaguirre
1783-1784 F. D. Montemayor
1784-1785 A. de Figueroa
1785-1786 R. de Clairac y Villalonga
1786-1787 P. de Mesa y Castro
1787-1788 R. de Clairac y Villalonga
1788-1789 P. de Mesa y Castro
1789-1790 R. de Clairac y Villalonga
1790-1791 J. J. de Elizalde y Ustariz
1791-1792 P. P. Sanguineto
1792-1793 J. J. de Elizalde y Ustariz
1793-1794 P. P. Sanguineto
1794-1795 J. de Aldana y Ortega
1795-1796 P. P. Sanguineto
1796-1797 J. de Aldana y Ortega
1797-1798 L. de Medina y Torres
1798-1799 F. X. de Viana y Alzaibar
1799-1800 L. de Medina y Torres
1800-1801 F. X. de Viana y Alzaibar
1801-1802 R. Fernández de Villegas
1802-1803 B. de Bonavía
1803-1804 A. L. de Ibarra y Oxinando
1804-1805 B. de Bonavía
1805-1806 A. L. de Ibarra y Oxinando
1806-1808 B. de Bonavía
1809-1810 G. Bondas
1810-1811 P. G. Martínez
After the emancipation of America, by the principle uti possidetis juris, the emancipated countries inherit, of course, the limits that had its pre-emancipation, including the Malvinas Islands
ARGENTINES
1820-1821 D. Jewett
1821-1821 W. Mason
1824-1824 P. Areguatí
1829-1832 L. Vernet
1832-1832 J. F. Mestivier
1832-1833 J. M. Pinedo
During all these years (66) there was no complaint from any country.
THE MALVINAS ARE ARGENTINE FOREVER
@46 Spain never shared sovereignty with Britain:
May 15th, 2013 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Study, when the islands were incorporated as an overseas territory?
It is true that English and Spanish populations existed simultaneously.
England did not discover the islands, neither occupied first.
Argentina inherited the territory belonging to Spain. This was recognized by countries like the U.S. and Britain.
Spain later ceded these territories, although at that time part of this territory was usurped by Britain (Malvinas Islands)
Already in 1810 the first Argentine government considered the islands to their administrative costs as “a navigating ship”
Let's start again, build the bridge.
I'm willing to take at my home to an islander who wants to know Argentina.
Oh they're back!
May 15th, 2013 - 04:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Love cut and paste. No original thought just repeated drivel. No proof of Spain ceding the Islands. No support in international law in 2013.
Argentina doesn't possess the islands now.
That was a big 'ol FULL STOP. Repeat a false history until you are blue in the face.
The Islanders have the Islands.
Argentina doesn't.
I've yet to see a credible scenario to change these two points.
Please feel free to keep posting the same stuff throughout 2013. Into 2014. And keep going. It won't change any facts on the ground.
The Islanders have the Islands.
Argentina doesn't.
Ok Malvinense your a nutter repeating the same old shit
May 15th, 2013 - 06:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0The British made the first recordered landing in 1690.
Argentina did not inherit the islands from Spain nor was this recognised by Britain or the US (you made it up)
Jose.
Nice list, Mexico had Spanish governors, as did Chile and Cuba do you claim those too? They are irrelevant, as Spain withdrew voluntarily, the population went back to Spain via Uruguay, and you didn't inherit it.
You Argentine list is hilarious.
A pirate, two guys who never went to the islands, a busisnessman who sought permission from London and when he voluntarily left left a Brit in charge, a poor guy who was murdered, and his wife raped by other Argentines after he'd only been on the islands a couple of weeks, and Pinedo..again just a few days before he and his militia returned the islands to their rightful owners.
So...Spanish governors no body denies (Spain left voluntarily), a big gap that even your fabricated shit has to show, a few Argie fairy tales, a Vernet community being run by a Brit in 1832. The attempted usurption by poor Mestevier and the return to British rule.
It's simple, show any evidence or precident where an unpopulated island group over 1000 miles from a newly independent country automatically became part of that country. Show any evidence that Spain ceded its rights to Argentina (as opposed to Chile or Uruguay), show any evidence that there was ever an Argentine civilian population on the islands.
You can do none of these. Therefore you never had sovereignty.
A sovereignty, that even if you could prove for academic purposes, would have lapsed with the 1850 agreements, and more importantly the 1982 invasion.
You have no historic, geographic, legal or moral rights.
Build a fucking bridge with that.
Let's start again and build bridges.
You give Patagonia back to the remaining indigenous population that you didn't slaughter in the 1880s.
You stop lying and whinging about a history that never happened.
@53 Monkeymagic,
May 15th, 2013 - 07:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0lt seems that we go round & round with no end in sight.
l've had these same discussions with these malvinistas for a few years now.
They were taught all these lies when they were in school.
That's a very impressionable age & its etched in their brains.
l think it best if we ignore them, but stay fully armed & alert as l don't trust them not to invade again.
You would think that they have more to do with their time(i.e. getting their country back on its feet)than worrying themselves over a land that they've NEVER owned & are NEVER likely to own.
Especially as we do not want anything to do with them.
What a pity, Argentina could be such a great place if it was governed correctly.
Oh well!
Isolde
May 15th, 2013 - 09:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0I understand that they wont change their views, no matter how well or often the flaws in their arguments are displayed to them.
In Britain, we have “guilt” etched into our brains at school and therefore normally look for where we have wronged someone and try and make ourselves feel guilty. Even with our own reverse-indoctrination, it is very hard to see any merit in the Argentine case.
Give or take a few minor details (whether a Portuguese/Dutch/French explorer sighted the islands sometime before 1690 or not), everyone agrees the history to 1811. There is actually little point repeating it.
The crux of the Argentine argument is that either:
1) the Spanish claim wasn't eliminated when they voluntarily left
2) the Spanish claim didnt remain with Spain
3) the Spanish claim didnt pass to Chile (the closest country) or Patagonia, or Uruguay (where the Spanish settlers actually went to after they left), but somehow to Argentina, a country that didnt exist until years later.
4) Somehow, Jewitt is relevant (he isnt)
5) Somehow Vernet is relevant (he also left voluntarily leaving a Brit in charge)
6) Somehow the Mestevier/Pinedo usurption was successful
7) the 1850 agreement didnt eliminate any of the above anyway
Time and time and time again they have failed to show any of the above.
However, Britain can prove the following
1) The islands first recorded landing was in 1690 and the islands were named the Falklands
2) Britain had a civilian settlement in the 1760-1770s and never ceded their sovereignty claim
3) Britain gave permission to Vernet for his business venture and continued to support the venture post 1833
4) Britian warned the UP that their attempted usurption in 1832 would result in eviction due to the british historic claim
5) All these people are now long dead. The inhabitants of the islands today have harmed noone and are the moral, legal, and UN charter supported rightful owners. They have been subjected to an illegal invasion in 1982.
RE #48
May 15th, 2013 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please add:
6. How to lie with statistics
7. How to lie with international law
Etc.
Philippe
Oh!
May 15th, 2013 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really bad news again for Britons without FI in Indian globe and now close to collapse...
It is not very sad?
UK DEBT TO DOUBLE by 2018 - Newsnight (FULL VERSION)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikgkYGDXnc4
Chris Leslie on UK borrowing and crappy economy (21Feb13)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikgkYGDXnc4
The debt time bomb that is Britain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikgkYGDXnc4
Keiser Report: Slime Mold For President! (E412) (Central Bankers,UK Economic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikgkYGDXnc4
If we are in such a mess,
May 15th, 2013 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0then what is the mighty powerfull rich wealthy Argentina waiting for.
“The British made the first recordered landing in 1690”.
May 16th, 2013 - 12:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0monkey, monkey, monkey, if you want to lie to yourself is your problem.
Look:
1501- Amrigo Vespucci sighs islands that may have been the Falklands (Malvinas)
1520- Esteban Gomez, the captain of one Magellan ships, sights islands that may have been the Falklands (Malvinas)
1540- One of ships from a spanish expedition under Francisco de Camargo winters in islands that may have been the Falklands (Malvinas)
1592- The englishman John Davis sights islands that may have been the Falklands (Malvinas)
R.A.F., U.K. 2004.
1690? 177 years before, the islands appear in Spanish maps .
A small sample of British lies.
@51 Malvinense 1833 Argentina rebelled, how can you claim the Falklands without claiming Spain, and all the other countries that Spain claimed, you are all full of crap! back off or you will be back with you tails between your legs like in 1982. You lost and that is forever!
May 16th, 2013 - 01:13 am - Link - Report abuse 059
May 16th, 2013 - 01:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good contribution. Nothing new moreover!
Thanks for the link 45. The survey map of the first Spanish governor appointed by the central government in Buenos Aires. Very interesting.
61 Nothing new ... But the British insist erroneous data to justify the possession of the islands.
May 16th, 2013 - 02:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just want to show that they are wrong in some observations.
Saludos, José
60 Falkland Islands:
The Argentina was in possession of the islands until the arrival of pirates.
The first British settlers arrived in the islands knowing the existence of a conflict with Argentina.
It is therefore not possible in this case self-determination.
It is very simple.
Nothing new.
May 16th, 2013 - 05:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina does not possess the Islands!
Why these fools feel the need to hold this conversation every couple of months is beyond me.
Argentina has NEVER been further from possessing these islands as it is in 2013.
I saw something that might have been the moon. But it wasn't landed on or a flag planted until Neil Armstrong.
May 16th, 2013 - 06:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Vespucci was Italian not Argentine
Magellen was Portuguese not Argentine
Now, by your own drivel...“the British settlers arrived knowing the existence of a conflict with Argentina”
So, what was your beloved Jewitt doing? or Mestevier (poor soul)? Or Pinedo? Or even when you tried to appoint Vernet?
Were they arriving trying to claim sovereignty for Argentina “knowing the existence of a conflict with Britain” LOL
So it's ok for Argie land to try and steal...but not Britain to take it back.
What a warped joke of a world you live in Malvinense.
You claim the islands for Argentina, although even by your own inaccurate drivel
The islands weren't first sighted by Argentina it was Italian or Portuguese
The islands weren't first landed by Argentina it was British
The islands first community wasn't Argentine it was French
The islands second community wasn't Argentine it was British
The islands third community wasn't Argentine it was Spanish
None of these communities went to Argntina upon voluntarily leaving, none considered themselves Argentine, nor claimed independence to be Argentine.
The Vernet community was a business venture that included Argentines but had permission from Britain and was actually led by a Britain when the UP attempted to usurp the islands in 1832 “in the knowledge that of an existence of a conflict with Britain LOL”
The UP militia murdered their captain and raped his wife, and their attempted usurption failed.
They then attempted another usurption in 1982 “in the knowledge of the existence of a conflict with Britain”
Malvinense, you are a ridiculous hypocrite, even your own posts show the weakness of your argument.
@64 well said. The usurpation by Argentina of 1832 is just the same sneaky tactics they used in south Georgia 1982, pretending to be scrap metal merchants. They didn't learn the first time. Both times they had permission from the owners, Great Britain, so if you were to look in your archives you would probably find the paperwork showing permission to land and work.
May 16th, 2013 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0@62
May 16th, 2013 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The Argentina was in possession of the islands until the arrival of pirates.”
Argentina did not exist till 1853, so the only time it possessed the Islands was for 2.5 months in 1982.
You ignore that Jewett and Vernet were real pirates, ie they committed piracy.
You also forget that the British did not kick the people from UP off the Falklands-the USA did in 1831.
Pete Bog
May 16th, 2013 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are not thinking in the mind of a Malvinista.
According to our malvinista friends...the Viceroyalty of River Plate and all its realms became Argentina.
Except it didnt.
Huge chunks of the Viceroyalty became Bolivia, Uruguay, Brazil and Argentina...as well as a chunk becoming the Falkland islands.
So the idea that all the lands of the Viceroyalty automatically became Argentina is bullshit...they became whatever the various military skirmishess between 1814-1880 made them.
Also, if Argentina is limited to the inheritted land from the Viceroyalty, they can recede the stolen territories of patagonia, usurped in the 1880s from the rightful inhabitants. Certainly the current population cant self-determine as there is a territorial dispute with the Amerindians!! LOL.
Also, the Falklands were empty when the Viceroyalty became the UP, so there was nobody to claim independence or loyalty to either Chile, Uruguay, Brazil, Argentina or Britain.
So the inheritance claim fails on all counts.
the question then becomes, did Argentina do sufficient between 1814 and and 1833 to justifiably assert sovereignty.
Clearly not, no civilian population, a small 2-month garrision with associated murder and rape, a bit of piracy, and as Malvinese so clearly puts it, all this attempted usurption “in the knowledge of an existing conflict with Britain”.
What a pathetic lot...
The islands are Argentine because maybe once in the 1500s, an Italian “might have seen them”. LOLOLOL
@41 'Malvinas' derives from French, 'pertaining to St. Malo' in Brittany. Brittany is populated by Bretons, who came to Brittany from Cornwall, which we all known is part of the UK. So the 'Malvinas' are French, and so Breton, and so Cornish and so British. Easy.
May 16th, 2013 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Malvinas is just a bad translation from the French “malouines”. A better translation would be maluinas- not “malvinas”. All this, of course , is as Argentinean as is Wazirinistaneese.
May 16th, 2013 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Philippe
It seems to us that argentina seems to think it has rights to every piece of land that an argie ever stepped foot on,
May 16th, 2013 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0greedy , aggressive and a bully,
and all bullys get their just deserts in the end.
Briton
May 16th, 2013 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not really, and this is the weakness of their argument. There argument moves when you show how ridiculous each part it, and as Isolde says you can go round in eternal circles.
The most recent claim by CFK was that a child of three could see that Argentina was closer to the Islands, therefore they were Argentine. Jesus Christ, a child of four could point to 20-30 cases of where that rule doesn't apply and a child of five could point out that until Argentina genocidally usurped Patagonia, Chile was closer.
The second Argentine claim is that the islands were claimed for Argentina by Jewitt/Vernet/Mestevier/Pinedo. All complete bollocks for reasons discussed previously. The only one who attempted a civilian population was Vernet with the permission of the UK, and when Vernet left the islands voluntarily he left a Britian in charge, the self same Britain who Argentina celebrate the death of by gaucho Riviero.
The final claim is that Argentina Inheritted the islands from Spain. This is the most interesting. However, none of our Malvinista friends can explain this inheritance:
1) there was nobody on the islands to declare independence, nobody to choose whether they wanted to be Argentine, Uruguain, Paraguaian, Brazilian, Chilian, remain Spanish, become independent islanders or something else. I can see no reason why the default position would be Argentine.
2) as there was nobody on the islands, the use of self-determination, or the claim of independence used across the Americas is irrelevant.
3) Whole swathes of the Viceroy of Rio Plata, and the United Provinces of River Plate are not and have never been Argentine...including the Falklands, chunks of Bolivia, Uruguay, Brazil.
4) whole swathes of Patagonia which were never Inheritted from Spain are now Argentina having been usurped in a blatant act of 19th century colonialism.
Perhaps when the borders in the rest of South America revert back to some mythical 1833 boundaries they wouldn't look so ridiculous
very true,
May 16th, 2013 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0they want what you have,
but wont give back what they stole,
their logic knows no bounds.
The Argentine state has long behaved like Serbia did in the early 1990s. However, being bombed and bombed and bombed again made the Serbian state stop and behave.
May 16th, 2013 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There's a lesson there.
Vespucci was Italian not British
May 17th, 2013 - 01:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Magellen was Portuguese not British. Navigator in service of Spain.
Therefore, England did not discover anything. And you have nothing.
Forget you something, Argentina is the successor state of the territories belonging to Spain.
Mexico, is the successor state of the territories belonging to Spain. Colombia, is the successor state of the territories belonging to Spain. Chile is the successor state of the territories belonging to Spain,etc, etc,.
If there was no one on the islands then how are British?
If Vernet had British permission, then how existed a garrison Argentina?
If Vernet had British permission then why Great Britain sent two warships?
Pete bog “Argentina did not exist till 1853, so the only time it possessed the Islands was for 2.5 months in 1982.”
Argentina was recognized by Britain in 1823 and 1825. Are you sure that Argentina did not exist?
Malvinese
May 17th, 2013 - 06:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your a funny fellow. You missed a few the USA is a successor state to colonies belonging to Spain, Canada is a successor State to colonies formally belonging to Spain, much of the Carribean are successor States formally belonging to Spain.
Or are you only counting those where “Latinos” are still in charge, and if the other “Latinos” don't want them,..it must be Argentine. How's about you invade Texas or California to try and “get back your Latino birthright”? LOL.
Moving on to the rest of your twaddle.
The Argentine (actually UP) garrison arrived on November 15th 1832, murdered their Captain and raped his wife in front of their Children before Christmas, and we're rightfully removed by Captain Onslow in January 6th 1833. Luis Vernet had voluntarily left the islands years before...
The remainder of the Vernet community,, under their leader, the British Matthew Brisbane, we're encouraged to, and chose to stay in 1833.
So, in answer to your drivel.
Because an Italian MIGHT have seen a territory in the 1500s (but didn't land) doesn't make it Argentine in the 21st century. It is perhaps the most ridiculous argument put forward by anyone other than Dany Bugger on these boards.
Lots of the former Spanish Empire (that wasn't subject to an existing conflict with Britian) isn't under “Latino” control today, I am sorry if that offends your clearly racist sensitivities, as above, if you care that much invade California.
As you clearly identify, the Falklands were subject to Spanish-British disagreements centuries before Argentina existed. Spain may or may not have had a case...Argentina certainly doesn't, and never did.
The screaming hypocrisy with which you sidestep Patagonia is funny though
The globe still says “Malvinas” enough proof for me to whom belongs this Islands.
May 17th, 2013 - 08:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0ha ha
Argentina is the successor state of the territories belonging to Spain.
May 18th, 2013 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mexico, is the successor state of the territories belonging to Spain. ...etc, etc,.
No, it is A successor state - you have the indefinite article in Spanish - UN estado sucesor, not EL estado sucesor.
I think we should stop referring to the capital of Argentina as Buenos Aires and start calling it Fair Winds.
Britainico
May 18th, 2013 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed.
Argentina is A successor state of some of the territories colonised by Spain, and other territories stolen by Argentina through genocidal slaughter in the 1880s in a blatant act of 19th century colonialism.
Uruguay is A successor state of some of the territories colonised by Spain
brazil is A successor state of some territories colonised by Spain and other colonised by Portugal
Mexico, Colombia, Peru, Chile, Ecuador, Venezuala etc are all successor states of some territories colonised by Spain.
The USA is a successor state of some territories formally colonised by Spain and the UK.
Canada is a successor state of some territories formally colonised by Spain, France and the UK.
The moons of Jupiter were first seen by an Italian in the 1500s, according to Malvinese, this would make them Argentine.
The Falklands are a BRitish overseas territory and a successor territory from areas in the past colonised by Spain, France and Britain.
The list can go on and on, we could talk about French Guyana, Aruba, Cuba, much of the Carribean....etc etc.
In none of these cases is there the hard and fast rule that if a Latino (seemingly Spanish, Portuguese or Italian) “MIGHT” have seen it first, it MUST be part of Argentina today.
Generally, the more prevalent rule, is that all these territories, successor states, and various regions are the SOVEREIGN TERRITORIES OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE and it is up to them to SELF DETERMINE their own choice of government.
That is the case whether those territories were gained by the genocidal slaughter of 100,000s of indigenous people such as Argentina, whether it was won in wars between colonialists such as California, or the break up of the UP, or was voluntarily evacuated by one group of colonialists and filled by another twice over such as the Falklands.
In fact the Falklands seem least controversial as at least no indigenous were slaughtered.
Still there is still hope for Malvinese to claim Jupiters Moons
@74
May 18th, 2013 - 11:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Are you sure that Argentina did not exist?”
Yes. The United Provinces of the River Plate existed, not the same country as Argentina (formed 1853). They may well have claimed the Falkland Islands but their claim does not go back as far as the British claim. The Spanish were not the only country to claim the Falklands, the British settled the Islands in 1775 before the Spanish arrived. The Spanish did not have whole possesion of the Falkland Islands. It is typical of Argentina to say a country known as the United Provinces of the River Plate (not wholly what was to become Argentina), claimed the Falklands but that the British claim (from 1690) did not exist.
Three arguments and historical evidence EXCELLENT!!
May 20th, 2013 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 045 Malvinense 1833
@ 38.40, a simple answer: the internal problems of Argentina.
P & P brainwashing. They hide the people the history of the islands.
Falkland Islands map. Governor Ruiz Puente Phelipe 1768.
www.bne.es/es/Micrositios/Guias/12Octubre/resources/images/MR_42_399_g.jpg
Excellent English show falsehood. Another argument justifying Argentina sovereignty over the Falkland Islands.
50 José Malvinas.
List of Governors of the Falkland Islands before 1833
Excellent demonstration of objectively verifiable historical facts. No doubt 1833 English encroachment.
62 Malvinense 1833
Excellent reasoning:
The Argentina was in possession of the islands until the arrival of pirates.
The first British settlers arrived in the islands knowing the existence of a conflict with Argentina.
Therefore, it is not possible in this case the determination.
It's very simple.
Face1354@hotmail.com
Take it to the ICJ if you are so certain !
May 20th, 2013 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So the Falkland Islands are still part of the UK...... seems the minutiae of history are just that.... history.
May 20th, 2013 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Facts on the ground in 2013 speak louder than Governor Ruiz Puente Phelipe in 1768 it seems.
All those Governors and Argentina still can't get the islands.
80 Raul
May 21st, 2013 - 02:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you. Indeed, the story not began in 1833, as believe these trash (which are nothing else).
It is my impression or AngolaLatino is more stupid of what I thought?
May 21st, 2013 - 05:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0He start to sound to YankeeBobo reload...
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