MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands: “last thing we want is religion inserted in the dispute”
A top Falkland Islands’ politician and Britain's UN envoy shrugged off the idea of the Pope intervening in the long-running sovereignty dispute over the Falklands/Malvinas and South Atlantic islands, as was suggested at one point by Argentine President Cristina Fernandez. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesFalklands: “last thing we want is religion inserted in the dispute”
Jun 21st, 2013 - 06:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Should have stopped after the first half of that sentence. What it should read is:-
“last thing we want is religion”
Anyone who believes that the catholic church can be a force for good in this world is going to very badly let down.
The catholic church, and it's beliefs have been shown up to out of touch with the modern world......
No wonder they have found a rich breeding ground in Argentina.....
I personally can't think how a bunch of paedophiles are going to help the situation either.
Jun 21st, 2013 - 07:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0@1 toooldtodieyoung
Jun 21st, 2013 - 07:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Agreed.
'He referred however to 1493 decrees by Pope Alexander VI that granted Spain the right to the lands of the Americas.'
Sums it up, religion has no part to play in this dispute.
'Dispute Over Falklands Intensifies'
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/21/world/americas/dispute-over-falklands-intensifies.html?_r=0
Kings meet with kings etc...
Jun 21st, 2013 - 09:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps we can find a turd for Timmerman to talk to.
Timerman and his 1493 decrees. It was a papal bull. Why doesn't he go and tell the United States and Canada that their countries actually belong to him? Could it be because he knows he'd get squashed flat? Back in 1493, every non-catholic nation repudiated the “bull”. Even the Catholic chuch has said it's meaningless. And yet Tinman desperately clings to it as a “justification” for argieland's “claims”. To the ICJ with you, Herr Tinman. Where we can expose every one of argieland's bare-faced lies.
Jun 21st, 2013 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0An Argentine Pope?
Jun 21st, 2013 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0That would be unbiased, do you think?
As my kids say, “Yeah right!”
#4 Lol!
Jun 21st, 2013 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Any suggestion of allowing the leader of the world's largest paedophile organisation to participate in any dispute is indefensible.
Jun 21st, 2013 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0The press coverage that the Argies are getting on their 'Great Malvinas Lie' is shrinking fast. It is obvious that interest outside of Argentina is minimal and the Falklands referendum has made their cause even bleaker.
Jun 21st, 2013 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 04 Monkeymagic
Jun 21st, 2013 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Love it!!!
I thought mine was good.................But yours is better!!!
Lol the Catholic church. An organisation we stopped listening to in 1534.
Jun 21st, 2013 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0So, from the meaningless C24 to the even more meaningless vatican. Will Argentina's bullshit circus ever go anywhere with some legislative power, or are they just content to spew nonsense in fora that don't have the ability to do anything concrete?
It's all a bit pathetic really.
@4
Jun 21st, 2013 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL!
Although I doubt we will ever find a turd willing to lower itself to Timerman's level.
#4 a mr blair is free I belive
Jun 21st, 2013 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ROFLMAO....!!As I have said before....These Argies are a laugh a minute,when I need a lift I just read a few of their post's...Does it every time..Ohhh yeah,the POPE...Ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...!!!
Jun 21st, 2013 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Christina,
Jun 21st, 2013 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Pope is NOT your special friend.
Though perhaps he'll prove willing to hear your confession.
You'll be in there a long time.
Popes always have those conditions for reconciliation, dialogue and make possible real peaceful solutions (not like your politicians that make peace throwing bombs), at least he could try to make possible an approach for dialogue. Dont be afraid of the Pope, he is not kirchnerist, doesnt like Kris too much, and religion wont get envolved.
Jun 21st, 2013 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 016 malen
Jun 21st, 2013 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Grow up. Would you be happy for a British pope to mediate? I think not. WTF has religion got to do with anything in the age we live in?
@16
Jun 21st, 2013 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Malen are you sane? We have moved on since we had any dealings with the Pope. He was elected by Catholics, he has no divine right. Perhaps we should ask Buddah to intervene or perhaps the Christian Scientistsor perhaps Dr WHO. We do get a good laugh on this site. Just said a Few Hail Marys to be on the safe side.
16 malen (#).Erm Malen sweet cakes I do believe back in 82 it was indeed the seriously unbalanced Arjuntinians who started“throwing bombs”,and for the record ol popey wopey has gone on record as saying the Falklands do indeed belong to Arjuntina.Now I ask you,could the Falkland islanders expect a fair and unbiased decision from this dude who runs around with a daft lil hat on his head that seems to serve no perpose at all??...17 Joe Bloggs (#)...Religeion has NOTHING to do with the “Falklands”..and thats exactly why the pope should never even be considered as a “mediator”..Ohh and remember the last time a pope acted as a mediator concerning Arjuntina/Chile?...Arjuntina IGNORED his decision because it did'nt go Arjuntinas way..So Joe I must say to you....Grow up and get a dose of reality..!!
Jun 21st, 2013 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Pope could only try to put parts together, then go back to the Vatican. Popes do those things. Not taking decissions.
Jun 21st, 2013 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Which mediator would you propose for talks on sov?? Say one.
@20 krusty the clown?
Jun 21st, 2013 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0seen as there is nothing to talk about anyway!
@20 Malen
Jun 21st, 2013 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What about a joint adjudicator?
The Head of the Catholic Church, and the Head of the Anglican Church.
I believe that the Head of the Anglican Church (Queen Elizabeth II) would make mince meat out of the Pope and out of Argentina's claims with one hand tied behind her back.
20 malen
Jun 21st, 2013 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We don't propose any mediator because we have no dispute. If you have a problem I suggest you go to the ICJ.
21 Pirate Love
I propose Stewie and Brian Griffin in the multiverse.
Oh come on guys, let's have a bit of respect for the popsicle.
Jun 21st, 2013 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I like the strawberry flavour myself.
Oh, oh. Just realised I am on the wrong tack: or am I?
Got to take religion as you find it. Full of RCC paedophiles and rolling in gold but preaching to the poorest on the planet.
Two faces anybody?
Chuckle, chuckle.
LOLs
20 malen (#).....“Mediator”..?...You just DONT get it do you Malen...?there is NOTHING to mediate as the Falkland Islands have made it perfectly clear as to what lies in their future,and I'm affraid Arjuntina is not,nor will it ever be part of the future as far the Islanders are concerned...!
Jun 21st, 2013 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Note to dumb primates:
Jun 21st, 2013 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Since atheists remain a vocal but very much crackpot minority in the world I'd say religion has a great deal to do with the age we live in.
Feel free to take that fact back to your multiverse with you.
@23 Brian gets my vote, and he would make a lot more sense than a hypocritical organisation of child groomers lecturing us on morals and the will of a mythical idol for the backward.
Jun 21st, 2013 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Griffin for Pope!
27 Pirate Love
Jun 21st, 2013 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, Brian for pope. At least when we see them doing ghastly things we realise it's just a fictitious TV show. However, each time we see another priest destroying a child's life we can only WISH it was just a fictitious TV show but unfortunately it's the 10 o'clock news.
26 Bongo
Jun 21st, 2013 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'Crackpot'? 'Multiverse'? “I'd say religion has a great deal to do with the age we live in.”
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH THAT COMMENT!:-
Paedophiles in every RCC country in the world;
Muslims killing kaffers because they defy Mohammad, ‘shit and piss be upon him’ (check that out);
American ‘evangelists’ send us your money ‘in Jesus’ name’ while flying their private jets;
Denial by many religions of anything that scientists state as fact that conflicts with ‘the word of god’.
Is that the best you can do Bongo? Just WHEN are you going to realise that the bible is a collection of stories that are based upon religions of 4,000 years ago and has as much to do with reality as David Copperfield the American illusionist who is at least entertaining.
From an atheist who has enough practical experience of the church to know when he is better off without it and the likes of delusional imbeciles that cause trouble in the name of it.
Makes sense, after all Argentina hasn't got a prayer of taking over the Falkland Islands, so maybe some guy in a frock could do that for them.
Jun 21st, 2013 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is the man from Del Monte available? Or is he busy running around with his pants round his ankles in Venezuala looking for toilet roll.
Jun 21st, 2013 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK is NOT a catholic country, the Pope means NOTHING here. Now on behalf of the British people, take your pope and get stuffed!
@16
Jun 21st, 2013 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0” dialogue and make possible real peaceful solutions (not like your politicians that make peace throwing bombs),”
The 1982 invasion by Argentina was peaceful?
There's still Argentine mines there-if the Argentines were peaceful they would have removed their mines by now.
Sooo according to Tinderbox....Kings talk to Kings...and Queens talk to Queens...!!..Right..! We all know that Tinderbox is a “Drama Queen”,but some one should explain to “IT”..that Q.E 2...is a “constitutional monach”and has no powers what ever to talk to any “Drama Queen” on behalf of anyone,and this includes the Falkland Islanders.Soooo Tinderbox....back to square one..!!
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 04:41 am - Link - Report abuse 016 Malen
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 04:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Malen is right: always bet UK colonialism and terrorism. Want to fix everything bombings and deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan Libya
Argentina suffered four British invasions (1806-1807-1833-1845).
Argentina commitment to peace and dialogue. All who love peace and dialogue to support Argentina.
Always bear in mind that the specificity of the Malvinas Question is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity Argentina.
The Pope is a symbol of peace in the world. You may think the UK does abandon its racist practices, colonialists and imperialists of the 21st century, to initiate a peace process and making them return the islands to their legitimate owners: the people of the nation Argentina.
There was no “original population” in the FI. But there was one in Tierra del Fuego, which was whiped out. Perhaps by the famous Argentine “commitment to peace and dislogue”?
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 08:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina invaded in 1982 got kicked out end of the matter.
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 08:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0You tried you failed.
@ 34 raul2
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Always bear in mind that the specificity of the Malvinas Question is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity Argentina.”
Even the RG Government no longer tries to claim that the original population/settler/colonists were expelled just the Argentine authorities.
See the RG Govt. website here:
http://cancilleria.gov.ar/es/history
This also means that CFK lied to the C24 committee last year. What a surprrise.
26 Bongo
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0I see your point, but you're still full of s**t. Seems you are a bible basher and live your life by the word of the Lord.. Would you stone your wife because she disobeys you? You would agree with it though because, as a true Christian, you agree with what the “Good book” teaches you.
Would you agree with stoning to death anyone who works on the sabbath? There again, that's what the “Good book” teaches you.
Yeah, and Christianty has got ALL the answers, don't it?
Before you call down the wrath of all the heavens upon us to smite these “non believers” I would invite your brainwashed mind to think this one through:-
Atheism is also a religious position. Seems it is the denial of god and is therefore a regilious position. A true Atheist thinks of god constantly, albeit in terms of denial. there, atheism is a form of belief.
if an Atheist truly did not believe, he or she would not bother to deny.
Answers on a postcard please.
38 toooldtodieyoung
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0As an atheist for many decades, the only time I think of religion is when it 'slaps me in the face' by reason of idiots who think god exists try to justify their delusion.
This usually involves misunderstandings / denials of the undoubtedly perverse nature of their particular flavour of god such as Bongo. My instinctive reaction is to pity them for a lack of wanting to find out about life beyond the throttling and grasping hand of the perverts they call priests. They do not need to be a paedophile to be a pervert because I refer to it in the actual meaning: they pervert the truth.
It stems I suppose from allegiance to their parents (such as mine) and the thought that they would not harm you. It is only when you understand the real meaning of life, that this is all there is, that you can relax and not fear ‘the wrath of god’.
There is undoubtedly some comfort for those who do not believe in themselves or have a really bad life and cannot see a way out of it. If god exists why are they having a bad life? Presumably they long for death in order to go to heaven. Mmmm pity it does not exist.
@20
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Which mediator would you propose for talks on sov?? Say one
MLA Ian Hansen
34 raul2 (#).....Yada yada yada...Raul still peddling the same ol horse shit( Yawn)...Raul,has anyone ever explained to you that there is a huge difference between scratching your ass and tearing it all apart..?
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 039 ChrisR
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The thing I find so frustrating is that those god botherers who knock at my door can not and do not entertain that they might be wrong.
They do not seem to be able to see that there are other points of view in this world.
Everything else in this world has evolved and changed. The idea of “family” has changed and the idea of “marriage” has changed as well. and the idea that Homosexuals are somehow monsters that are not fit to join the Church is adhorant.
It is a shame that relegion has not kept up times.
@38 Happy to oblige, dude. Here's my favorite quote.
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Athiesm is a religion like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby.”
Unfortuntely there IS a problem with that. Atheism has to be cubbyholed somewhere when believers discriminate against them* in volation the EEOC, RRA or equivalent, its under the banner of “religion” that they do it, just as discrimiation against non-stamp collectors is likely to be done by stamp or even bottlecap, matchbox, paperclip, navel lint, or beanie baby collectors. (*And yes, it happens, the 24-carat case-in-point the minister who ran the Asheville NC-double-freakin!-A-CP proudly scuttled an atheist running for city council by citing archane NC law, just the kind of law used to keep him and his his flock down for decades. And then of course look at the OIC whose ideas on “right” to leave theur religion would make the fascist Malvanistas here feel right at home.)
As for why the non-religious bristle at “God,” that's not quite right. We bristle at people who insist that we worship theirs while they justify sometimes dreadful things (like religous daycare not having to play by the same rule as non-religous ones at the risk of children, likewise, denying medical care to children on “religous” grounds as two examples), while at the same time question the moral integrity of people who, to borrow a phrase again, ”have raped all the people they want to (and that number is 0)“ without ”a celestial dictator” and are totally clueless as to how turely creepily AMORAL they come off as when they say/ask such vacuous things.
But as to this case, I don't care if Francisis a free thinking Jeffersonian build-up-that-wall deist or a celebrity scientologist Cruising along at OT-8, he's Malvanista, having already made enough prejudicial statements. He can swear on a Bible, Koran or 1rst edtion copy Numerical Reciples in Fortan77 (Like Dawkins and Hitchens, I'm a high-church atheist, myself), he's still be a lie of an arbiter.
The Argentine bishop was fervently in favour of Argentine sovereignty right up to the point where he became pope. Now he has changed his mind and doesn't want to be involved. Perhaps he does have a hotline to God.
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has been going on recently about how this is a situation that has been in desperate need of a peaceful solution, well for the last 31 years this has been a military crisis with no casualties, no engagements, no oppression of civilians on the islands - so here's my solution - bugger orf and look after your own affairs and your own people.
I am a Catholic and the last thing I want is the involvement of Pope Francis in the matter of the Falklands archipelago. As an Argentine prelate of Italian descent he was very supportive of the false claims, myths and fairy tales of Argentina and his involvement now would be tainted.
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just carry on as you have started your papacy, your Holiness, and leave well alone. Truth will out - the Falkland Islands are British and that is what the Falkland Islanders want.
34 raul2
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No thanks Raul. We have experienced enough of your 'peace and dialogue' to last a lifetime. It involved guns and bombs as I recall.
We've had quite enough of your racism and imperialism too. If we were a bit darker in colour and a bit more Latin in culture, we wouldn't be having this conversation. You hate us mainly because we are not the same as you, and that stinks quite frankly.
And Argentina didn't exist in 1807. Britain was at war with Spain. You must know this. Don't they teach you anything in what passes for schools where you come from? You and poor Malen really aren't very good advertisements for the Argentine education system.
As for all you rabid atheists out there, I have some sad news for you. You can hope that religion will disappear all you like; unfortunately, the paedophiles, terrorists and perverts will still be with us.
So will the sanctimonious prats who think it is their business to argue other people out of their 'delusions', meaning any view that isn't the same as theirs. Particularly embarrassing since most peoples knowledge of what religious belief and practice are is shockingly inadequate
There are plenty of atheist criminals in the world. I have never been tempted to suggest that their atheism and their criminality were anything other than a co-incidence.
As an atheist brough up in religion, I have known many fine people of faith quietly getting on with their lives, and many atheists who were complete evangelical arseholes. The only people who have ever tried to 'convert' me to their beliefs have been atheists.
43 GFace
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0when I was 3 years old, I had an imaginary friend. I would lay a place at the table for him and he and I would play together all day, everyday.
Then I grew up.... and my imaginary friend? well, he went away, never to be heard of again.
It would seem to me, that if my imaginary friend put in an appearance again today, I would be fitted with one of those nice comfy jackets that do up at the back, and carried off to the nearest funny farm.
If however, I went to church to talk to my imaginary friend then that would be ok..... How twisted is that?
As Ricky Gervais once said “If god does exist, why did he make me an atheist?” Good point Ricky, i think you are actually starting to make some sort of sense there!
46 Monty69
Agreed “There are plenty of atheist criminals in the world”. But there are also lots of “Christians” preaching hate towards their fellow man. It seems that Relegion is the cause of human suffering, not the cure for it.
47 toooldtodieyoung
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0''Relegion is the cause of human suffering''
No, sorry, but I can't agree with that. People created religion to reflect something inside themselves and in their societies. Good people use religion to good ends, and bad people will be bad whether they are religious or not. Are you really saying everyone would be living in peace without religion?
People seem to have a fundamental need to sort themselves into groups and create conflict with other groups. Either tribes, nations, religions, whatever. If we didn't feel the need to dominate others and make out we are better than them, that prat Dawkins would be quietly living out his atheist existence and not using his views as a stick to beat other people with.
As for your imaginary friend, if you want to go to church to talk to him, then that's between you and him, and I have no right to an opinion on that if you aren't bothering anyone. I also wouldn't suppose I had a better right to decide what's real and what's 'twisted' than you do.
There are literally billions of people in the world who live their lives comforted by the beliefs of their ancestors stretching back countless generations. Neither you nor I have any right to abuse them for that; it's arrogant and presumptuous, amd actually just a bit fanatical.
48 Monty69
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Are you really saying everyone would be living in peace without religion?”
It has never been tried and could well be better than the preaching of hate against others by various ‘faiths’ around the world, particularly the religion of peace itself: Islamism.
“There are literally billions of people in the world who live their lives comforted by the beliefs of their ancestors stretching back countless generations.”
Yes, just like mine do, they are after all partly responsible for who I am today, the difference is I do not expect to ‘see’ them when I die.
Just what is it with you and atheists? I have never tried to ‘turn’ anyone, but I will not standby and listen to the ‘blather’ as if it was real when I know for a fact that anything preached by a bunch of rapists in dresses MUST be a load of bollocks. But hey, that’s just me!
Re-Religion.
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To each his/her own.
lf you are not hurting anyone or any animal then it doesn't matter what you believe in.
l have reservations about organised religion though.
Jesus never advocated churches or priests or any of the trappings of modern religion.
Each person's faith was within themselves.
A very important way to live is:- “Do unto others as you would have done to yourselves”.(malvinistas take note!).
@47 toooldtodieyoung,
Are you sure that your friend was imaginary?
49 ChrisR
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0''the difference is I do not expect to ‘see’ them when I die.'' ..well that's your prerogative. Your belief is that there is nothing above and beyond ourselves; theirs is that there is. Since neither of you can prove it, your belief is not superior to theirs.
''Just what is it with you and atheists?'' I have nothing against atheists, as I am one. However, when I read statements like 'a bunch of rapists in dresses ', I start to understand how moderate muslims feel towards the fundamentalists. Extremism in any form is lazy and stupid. And dangerous. You don't have to be a religious bigot to be an atheist.
I don't believe in Father Christmas either, in fact I don't feel that I should tell children that he's real, but I don't think that gives me the right to abuse people who do. And I'm damned if I'm going to let that or any other non- belief dominate my thinking.
51 Monty69 (#)
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Awwwww ....Monty...you bitch..how dare you..??Father Christmas is REAL...Just ask Turdman...he puts lotsa $$$$s in his account every mth...!!
Just got back from my first Pagan wedding ceremony, nice couple.
Jun 22nd, 2013 - 11:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Christians have deffinately got it wrong.
50 lsolde
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 08:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0What? you think that maybe he was real????? ooohhhh could be!!!
But ( and here is THE question ) do you think that he knew he was real?
We British Catholics and especially those who belong to the Falkland Islands have no intention to relinquish sovereignty to an alien nation and will not bring our religion into the debate.
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Falkland Islands are not and never have been part of Argentina.
51 Monty69
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz267A6jhbw
That is religion for you.
@47
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Greater minds than yours view things differently!!
“Einstein said, ”In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views.”
I have found your imaginary for you……..do you feel secure now and experience comfort against the Great Unknown?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0PI2djoA10
UN Visitor Centre has confirmed that All People ARE entitled to self-determination.
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://tinyurl.com/15hbt2b
Bill Maher on the Pope.
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0RC DO NOT WATCH IF YOU CAN'T TAKE THE COMMENTS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxoaodRQg04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxoaodRQg04
@52, given all the effort that I and a globe of parents facing some-assembly-required December 24ths go to become Father Christmas/Santa Claus every year, you bet your bippy he's real. We put enough effort in reading too-tiny-to-read-without-a-microscope instructions for each and every one of us not to be the real McCoy.
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And if Timmerman wants the Falklands under the Christmas tree / Chanukah bush, the overgrown brat can do what scores of gimme-gimmes do across the globe have to do: he can mow the lawn, clean the litter box, do the dishes, clean his own room/house/country and (since he's old enough) clean the gutters BEFORE the first heavy thunderstorm of the year & program Disney Junior his OWN %#&@ Tivo. I'll be happy to hand him a box of legos and he can make is own friggin Islands complete with minifigures his can jail for doing the inflation math right (I'll even sign him up for Master Builder Academy so he can do it in a manner that doesn't COMPLETELY humiliate him and his country).
@46, as for Dawkins and God Delusion “stridentness” (a word I only really hear from him). While I roll my eyes at his bomb of a trial balloon that was “The Brights,” I'll take him over that nasty piece of work Mad Murray O'Hare any day of the week. Additionally, unlike MMO'H, Dawkins has a dog in this fight. His own field is under constant attack from religionists who want to ban the teaching of fundamental science.
Additionally there are a lot of us who are at all not vexed by nice folk who seek comfort in religion who neither break our legs nor pick our pockets, we ARE vexed by those “strident” religionists who tell me my citizenship and morality is deficient, lie to my children and fine my kids teachers if I don't “teach the controversy” that evolution is “only a theory” and then teach something as laughable as the 6000-year-old earth or the “accommodation” that can't even be legally called “intelligent design” since the US courts saw through that fraud as well.
55 Gordo1 (#)
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jun 23rd, 2013 - 11:09 am
Some of us Argentine Catholics think in exactly the same way. The Holy Father WILL NOT intervene in the Falklands dispute!!!!!!!!!
As to the rather sterile discussion about atheism, surely the answer is that every one has the right to their own beliefs, this is SELF DETERMINATION!!!!!!!!
@60
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Discoveries in astronomy have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that the universe did, in fact, have a beginning. There was a single moment of creation.
Advances in molecular biology have revealed vast amounts of information encoded in each and every living cell, and molecular biologists have discovered thousands upon thousands of exquisitely designed machines at the molecular level. Information requires intelligence and design requires a designer.
The universe is ordered by natural laws. Where did these laws come from and what purpose do they serve?
Philosophers agree that a transcendent Law Giver is the only plausible explanation for an objective moral standard. So, ask yourself if you believe in right and wrong and then ask yourself why. Who gave you your conscience? Why does it exist?
We are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated.
“then teach something as laughable as this”
Quantum Theory
Your consciousness affects the behaviour of subatomic particles
Particles move backwards as well as forwards in time and appear in all possible places at once
The universe is splitting, every Planck-time (10 E-43 seconds) into billions of parallel universes.
The universe is interconnected with faster-than-light transfers of information.
Fascinating discussion. I suspect Pope Francis is too worldly, experienced and smart to want to get involved in this particular conflict. And, as others have pointed out he's already got form on this subject.
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Something to consider: a few years ago there was a Catholic world youth congress in Sydney. It's safe to say they were the most well behaved young visiters in the country for the duration of their stay - even handling with remarkable good grace the antics of a group of ( also young ) radicals who were compelled to throw condoms at them. They seemed to be the only young people who seemed to know how to have a good time without being intoxicated. They charmed the whole city - a tough ask.
I have no religious beliefs - I find it almost impossible to convince myself that there could be a God - but I have the utmost respect for those whose faith is sincere. And when I hear the utter commitment, devotion and gratitude in the voice of Mavis Staples or the ecstatic beauty in the poems of Gerard Manley Hopkins I almost envy them.
61 Simon68 (#)
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I cannot for the life of me understand how atheism and/or its merits(if it has any!) got into the conversation.
Best wishes.
@64 Gordo1
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0See 26 Bongo.
@65 ChrisR Thanks - but what does Bongo mean?
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@66
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hey Gordo1 it's a Drum, an Antelope or.........
it might be the name of the poster @26 ;-))
WOW how brainy is thinko? Anyone would think he had some sort of world wide web of knewledge at his finger tips!!!!!
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@68
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well......... you may think that
Care to add any thing of interest to this thread?...........Enrich our lives with your fountain of bile..........Thought not.
@ 59 ChrisR
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you can 'get away' with them, how about these,
1. Attributed to mark Twain, “Religion was invented when the first con-man met the first fool.”
2. Anonymous, “ Religion is the worship of the unexplained by the ignorant.”
70 Biguggy
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have to remember that in the middle ages Christianity was used by the controlling elite of all nations to subdue the masses with the promise of paradise in the afterlife.
TMBOA is using the mythical Malvinas to distract the stupid people of Argentina.
Nothing changes unless you think for yourself, so in Argentina, nothing will change.
@ 71 ChrisR
Jun 24th, 2013 - 12:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Agreed.
@71 Chris
Jun 24th, 2013 - 08:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting point-Malvanism is like a religion, where the followers don't question the 'religious leaders' (CFK and Timmerprat being the high priests), or the text, and it's origins and precise contexts,(historical records), having blind faith in the crap that is preached. Their problem is as with all religions/mantra, it isn't accepted by those who don't agree.
So when Timmerprat refers to papal edicts from 1500s, the way the pope divided the world up has no application to people who are not Roman Catholics, and as has been pointed out, if it were the case Canada and the United States would be Latino and South Georgia, and the Falklands would have originally been Portuguese not Spanish.
I have to confess to believing in a God, though I can't explain why, it's just things that have happened that I can't explain any other way.
However, it is nothing whatsoever to do with being influenced by what I call ' religious middle men' who profess what they /their religious texts say is absolutely correct.
What they cannot do is summon 'God' directly to prove these texts were indeed dictated/written by 'God' Therefore I tell them that I have no need of their indoctrination, as my belief comes from what I believe I have experienced.
Apologies all, religion has no place in this debate, and I am sure the Pope has realised that there are Roman Catholics in the Falkland Islands that he cannot discriminate against.
@54 toooldtodieyoung,
Jun 24th, 2013 - 09:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0There are many strange things upon this earth & l have seen many things that l could not explain.
Some l will not talk about because l KNOW that people would just flatly refuse to believe.
The problem is that there are many charletains & hoaxers, so when someone does report an unusual event, no-one believes them.
lts best to keep a wary open mind.
@73... Well we DO have Think's imaginary friend warping established science to push down-is-up misinterpretations of QM (which explains how 1982 never happened and how the UK claim comes after the claim of a country that had not yet existed), citing our complex biology and ignoring the evolutionary evidence therein right down to progressive DNA version tracking, refusing to recognize that someone had to be there before the designer arrived, etc, in a manner that would make the Discovery Institute blush and Kent Hovind hide under his jail cell blankie (I mean when you've lost Pat Robertson...).
Jun 24th, 2013 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed there are parallels in rabid zealotry between Young Earth political Dominionists and fascist Malvanists... But yes, we're diverging from the OP and Francis has other loaves and fishes to cater such as Qom and others who may actually want his more terrestrial intercessionary services.
73 Pete Bog
Jun 24th, 2013 - 11:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0You have expanded my point correctly.
I only comment about atheism when I am considered a “Note to dumb primates: Since atheists remain a vocal but very much crackpot minority in the world” as per Bongo @26.
I am neither dumb or a crackpot and I will not keep silent about the despicable RCC and the paedophilia that is endemic within it because it has still a long way to run. The last Chief Liar KNEW it was happening and INSTRUCTED it to be kept hidden. How many more young children were sexually abused as a direct result of that?
There are about 1 billion RCC adherents (they claim adherence anyway) and about 6 billion humans so I am glad to be in a minority of 5 billion (I wonder who does Bongo’s accounts).
A lot has been said about a divine designer: this is only because people lack the scientific knowledge and do not understand that ‘life’ in its basic form has already been replicated many times in a laboratory and the point about the single origin always begs the question ‘what came before?’ The answer is very simple we do not know at this time though there are many interesting ideas, BUT what I DO know it that it will be a scientist who comes up with the answer not some kiddie fiddler in a dress spouting mumbo-jumbo.
We don't care to much for Popes in England we haven't for over 500 hundred years and seeing that the Government sits in London England make no mistake we could not care less what a Pope says or does. We care even less for the people that THIS Pope is part of or even the country its self. I am sure there are some very nice Papists in Argentina probably from English extraction, for the rest, well what can I say. You South Americans deserve each other your all wank Papists.
Jun 25th, 2013 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0@77 Britishbulldog - I, too, am a passionate Brit, but I am, also, a “papist”. You, sir, are a “heretic”! How do you like being called nasty names?
Jun 28th, 2013 - 09:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Leave your religious prejudices out of the debate! What an ignorant fool!
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