MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
UK warns Spain with legal action over the tight controls at the Gibraltar border
Britain warned Spain it might take legal action to try to force Madrid to abandon tighter controls at the border with the contested British overseas territory of Gibraltar in what it called an “unprecedented” step against a European ally. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesSpain - their own worst enemy.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 03:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0@1 Troy
Aug 13th, 2013 - 03:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed.
And of course the Spanish government are also making fools of themselves, and of Spain, sacrificing Spain on the altar of their own political ineptness and corruption.
Dear Spain.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Greeks would love 5,000,000 British tourists.
Tell me, could Spain have to bear the costs of the case - I don't know how these things are done at the international level?
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0In any case, I suppose the costs would be trivial in terms of a national economy.
The UK government should ignore getting involved in a war of words and just get on with sorting it out through the courts.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5 Idlehands
Aug 13th, 2013 - 05:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UK government is trying to do the decent thing by giving the Spanish Government an 'out'.
However it is wasted on them, and I agree they should just take them to court.
The only loser in this is Spain because they have NO legitimate reason for the excessive border searches, or indeed for the so called 'tax'. Especially as the government is on record of saying that this 'tax' is to compensate the Spanish fishermen, who were illegally fishing in Gibraltan waters.
Spain will lose miserably, and will most likely have to pay compensation to Gibraltar (won't that stick in their craw?). If they won't pay, then their access to further funds from the EU could be blocked until they do.
And all of this so the Spanish government can distract the Spanish people away from their own corrupt actions. They really are pathetic, aren't they?
“Hay! Can we please pay EU fine with tomatoes?” Que?
Aug 13th, 2013 - 05:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0seems even more desperate than CFK's government over the Falklands.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 06:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0> Spain retains five territories in north Africa - Ceuta, Melilla, Penon de Velez de la Gomera, Alhucemas and the Chafarinas Islands.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 06:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0seriously WTF
The Spanish government it looking for a common enemy to stop the infighting and prospect of provinces seeking independence. They picked the wrong 'enemy'.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 07:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nice interview with Fabian Picardo on Sky this morning. Tells it like it is.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 08:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://news.sky.com/story/1127976/gibraltar-row-spain-creating-a-diversion
Wouldn't be surprised to see Spain go same way as Yugoslavia if their economy is further damaged as a consequence of this.
Do the right thing. Sink every spanish “vessel” within 100 miles. Fishing boats, “state” vessels, private craft, jet-skis. Everything! Don't forget the Apaches from HMS Illustrious to destroy local military bases. Particularly the Rota naval base. Might be an idea, on Wednesday, to tell US personnel and vessels that it might be a good idea to evacuate.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 09:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0@11
Aug 13th, 2013 - 09:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is indeed a genuine possibility. Many have already suggested that Spain could split into 3 countries.
Catalonia has already declared independence & Madrid has prepared plans to send troops in to occupy the country if they did break away. The Catalans in Barcelona are very sympathetic to the Gibraltarians. The Basques have also been seeking independence for years.
The problem for Spain though is that they are jumping into bed with an enemy. Argentina has still not compensated Spain/Repsol for YPF and Buenos Aires has no intention of doing so.
Spain is siding with a country known for their abuse of their indigenous people, who carried out an act of aggression in 1982 & was condemned by the UN for doing so.
The Mad Bitch does not have much longer left on her throne. Argentina is in almost as bad an economic state as Spain. So they may share similarities, but only as 'Basket Cases' that need bail out.
I've said before that I believe that this dispute can only end in a shooting war.
Spain cannot back down without loss of face and Gibraltar refuses to back down because they are within their legal rights & any concession would be a concession on Sovereignty - which Gibraltar can never allow.
Some Spanish people see the dispute for what it is - a smokescreen, but they are powerless to do anything about it.
Even if Rajoy was arrested by the police for his corruption, or fired by the King, his replacement would most likely be Margallo & he's just as mad as Rajoy.
The EU can huff and puff all they like, but Spain considers that they are too big for the EU to neglect. If Spain fails (through lack of EU money) then the Euro fails & the rest of falls into depression. So the EU can make as many orders as they like and Spain will ignore them.
As for the United States, the special relationship would be permanently damaged if the States took sides. They may try to broker a peace, but the Spanish would want concessions that Gibraltar refuses to give.
Shooting war.
@12
Aug 13th, 2013 - 09:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0We didn't have the largest empire the planet has ever known by blowing everything up all the time, as you seem to enjoy spouting on here. My guess is that we have some very clever lawyers and economists all ready to set to work on Spain depending on which path they wish to choose.
DID NOT I TELL YOU???
Aug 13th, 2013 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0All this time I have been REPEATEDLY writing “Argentina will never sign any agreements with the Falklands precisely because that is what the UK uses to further it's agenda of control of ARGENTINE territory”.
Well, here we go. Exhibit A.
Britain takes Spain to court.
Why so?
Because Spain signed “Agreements” with the UK.
And now, the Spanish don't even have sovereignty over their OWN territory. In effect, La Linea and adjacent areas have been de facto annexed by the UK. Eventually, who knows, maybe even legally so.
All you foreigners here that were calling me “nuts” for stating a similar scenario in Argentine WATERS outside the Fakland's EEZ... What if Argentina had agreements with the Falklands, and now chose to change them?
I said the exact scenario playing out here would unfold... That's why we sign no agreements, even if it is harmful to the fish in the region. It is the UK's fault for having such a sordid history of admittedly cunning artifice to further its expansionism (territorial or economic). Argentina is smarter than all the other countries, we keep away from London and they know they will never “charm” us or get us to sit down with them again.
once again, proven right.
@15 TTPT
Aug 13th, 2013 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Treaties are not made lightly, they are agreements and commitments and if a sovereign power, or company or person can keep to an agreement then they are trustworthy and have integrity. If they cannot then they are untrustworthy and have no integrity. What does this say about Spain and Argentina, renegers of treaties... they are not trustworthy.
Treaties can only be changed when it is agreed by all signatories, unlateral changes are non-sequitur, nonsensical.. like your postings!
@15 Toby
Aug 13th, 2013 - 10:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Can you remind us all again on here: what agreement Did Argentina sign with the Tehuelche? Is there a Wiki you can point us all to?
Tick, tick we are waiting......
(Your not telling us you just marched in like wanna them Conquistadors and stole everything are you??????)
But now we have become trustworthy by being honest enough to not sign them. Give credit where credit is due.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Better than what Europe did with the natives for 400 years. How many hundreds of “treaties” did you sign with them and then unilaterally reneged on? This is well known modus operandi of the Europeans in the colonization period. Proud of that?
@18 Toby
Aug 13th, 2013 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0But you and your relatives marched into Patagonia no? Short memory or what!
Still nothing on paper though - tut tut. Someone call the ICJ.
Spain is going to look foolish when this is all over, Rojoy has dug himself a big hole and the spanish are not fooled by this smoke screen.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Rojoy may have forgotten that Catalan helped the British to take Gibraltar and the rock enjoys a lot of support from the Spanish today.
http://www.panorama.gi/
Just a question, are Rojoy and CKF related
What a pity we have the cowardly Camoron for a PM.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Has he ever made a correct decision on his own of national importance.
I have been trying to remember one but can't?
Apparently the Catalan seperatists are siding with Gibraltar railing against bullying from Madrid. Seems cracks are starting to appear :-)
Aug 13th, 2013 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@22 Good to see the plan backfiring and doing the exact opposite. This may divide Spain even more.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@18 How about the fact that Argentina reneges on the Arana Southern Treaty - AN AGREEMENT SIGNED WITH GREAT BRITAIN.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The United Provinces stated that they were at perfect peace with Great Britain with no outstanding disputes - yet you keep claiming land that never belonged to you.
The Falkland Islands has NEVER been and will NEVER be part of Argentina.
Rajoy is heading for a fall. He doesn't care if Spain breaks up as a result of this dispute. Rajoy's headed for jail anyway and he knows it.
Catalonia and the Basques are ready to declare themselves separated from Spain. Rajoy and his right wing generals may have laid plans to send in the troops, but they won't be able to stop Barcelona declaring independence.
Spain is so weak financially, that if the EU refuses to bail them out, then it will collapse under the weight of all the debt. Much like Argentina will implode when they cannot import any more oil without payment up front.
@14 Don't be such a ridiculous twat. We didn't get the largest empire the world has ever seem by letting little tossers challenge us. We have, unilaterally, decided to reduce our armed forces as a signal for peaceful co-existence. spain is too dumb to understand that. So now, an action similar to the destruction of the French fleet in 1940. Unfaithful allies aren't “allies”.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@15 You don't have the brain or eduacation to argue, or even discuss. Perhaps 20 years from now when you are, nominally, an adult, try again.
@18 Well, we signed a treaty with argieland that argieland breached. Let's KILL argieland.
Margallo and Rojoy appear to be a double act and beating Timerman in the pathetic half baked ideas road show.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 022@ huge cracks and they will even get bigger
Catalan separatists side with Gibraltar against Spain
Aug 13th, 2013 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/13/uk-gibraltar-spain-catalonia-idUKBRE97C0KX20130813?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews
(Reuters) - One of the main pro-independence parties in Spain's northerly Catalonia region has fuelled the country's growing row with Britain over Gibraltar after expressing sympathy with “bullied” residents in the British territory.
The separatist Esquerra Republicana party (ERC), a junior coalition partner in the Catalan regional government, wrote to Gibraltar Chief Minister Fabian Picardo deploring the “improper” behaviour of Spain's central government.
While Catalan support for Gibraltar's position is unlikely to have any influence on the outcome of negotiations between Britain and Spain, the letter is a reminder of the political rifts the Spanish government faces elsewhere - and of the risk that its tough stance on Gibraltar could backfire at home.
“We most sincerely regret the improper bullying and harassment that the Spanish government is applying on the citizens whom you democratically represent ... in order to divert attention from its own internal political and financial scandals,” Alfred Bosch, leader of ERC in the Spanish parliament, wrote in the letter to Picardo.
The letter, written in English and Catalan, was dated August 12 but was released to the media on Tuesday.
Bosch is known for his often outspoken views and combative stance on Catalan independence - to which Spain's central government is strongly opposed.
Bosch likened Gibraltar's situation to that faced by Catalans, where many parties are pushing for a referendum on the territory's future.
“We are convinced that the only solution to the issue of the Rock, as with the issue of Catalonia, is through dialogue, suffrage and the principle of self-determination,” Bosch wrote.
“Your freedom is our freedom,” he added.
@27 {sarcasm}Well Nigel, this letter is yet more proof that the whole world supports Argentina's god-given claim on La Malvinas and Spain's god-given claim on Gibraltar.{/sarcasm}
Aug 13th, 2013 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Catalonia's biggest trading partner is the rest of Spain, so I would not be expecting them to break away in the near future given Madrid's love of childish siege tactics. Heaven forbid they respected people's wishes without resorting to bullying tactics.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 02:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the UK took action against the tourist trade that goes to Spain, it could well tip Catalonia towards independence. Then the UK could lobby for Catalonia's continued membership of the EU. If Madrid doesn't like it then they can leave IMO.
*27 The Catalan separatists another punch of shit heads if you ever saw one!! One of the wealthiest states in Spain with their own autonomous region and where they controlled the economy is now one of the poorest in Spain by these corrupt individuals. They spend millions in catalan embassies around the world when the have first class poverty in their backyards.....
Aug 13th, 2013 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.tumbit.com/news/articles/7041.catalan-politician-charged-in-corruption-case
www.catalannewsagency/society-science/itemchild-poverty-in-catalonia-increased-from185-to238-between2008-to2010
What if Gibraltar responded to this harassment by building a few more artificial reefs?
Aug 13th, 2013 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What would the possible outcome of such an action be?
@30 aussie sunshine: “Catalan[...]one of the poorest in Spain”
Aug 13th, 2013 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you seem to be suffering from the usual malvinista troubles with reality and decent links
try this one
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20345071
www.catalannewsagency/society-science/item-child-poverty-in-catalonia-increased-from-185-to-238-between-2008-to-2010
Aug 13th, 2013 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*31 well then..the queues would get a little longer...and the tourists coming to Gibraltar would say “ drive on to cadiz, love” “ there´s no way I¨m going in that jam, baby” ummm “ The fiestas are awaiting for us in Spain”....
@31 bushpilot: “What if Gibraltar responded to this harassment by building a few more artificial reefs?”
Aug 13th, 2013 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would be interesting (and funny) if they built one in Spanish waters, since the Spanish claim that is what they have already done...If the Spanish attempted to remove it, it would actually be evidence that Spain secretly knows the current reef is in Gib waters
*32 Beautiful city!! Highly reccomended you must see the basilica of the sacred family/casa Battlo/montserrat/el tablao de carmen/cathedral of santa Eulalia/ The port/ the food...great city....On the bbc link look at “ economy” and you will see what the nationalists have done to it..... a pity.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please do not involve us in this mess. This is a problem between the UK and Spain and not Argentina. We have no intention in getting tangled up in this web.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rajoy is more desperate than Cristina? Are you serious? For the first four to five years of Cristina's Administration, she was severely criticized by the Argentine press to give lip service to the Falklands/Malvinas dispute every April 2nd and then forgetting about the issue for the rest of the year.
It is in the Argentine constitution that every government should pursue the claim, peacefully, through international organizations. Cristina had said, in numerous occasions, including at the UN: “Just because Great Britain agrees to negotiations with Argentina, it does not mean that they will hand over thee Islands to us.” (A fact omitted here, for some reason.) What else do you want her to say? That Argentina will unilaterally drop the claim? She will be summarily and unceremoniously impeached - it is unconstitutional! Therefore, do not expect any future Argentine administration to do so - they are not going to commit political suicide. In addition, the pursuing of the claim is not important in Argentina. It is not even a second or third level news. Therefore, what is the political advantage for Cristina to pursue the claim? It became big news when she did not.
Hektor
@35 Sunshine
Aug 13th, 2013 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“look what the nationalists have done” - So the rest of Spain is an economic miracle.
Liar ©
Gibraltar/Malvinas/northern Ireland/...Can cameron sleep??!!
Aug 13th, 2013 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@35 aussie sunshine: “On the bbc link look at “ economy” and you will see what the nationalists have done to it”
Aug 13th, 2013 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On the link I gave you are given its wealth position relative to the rest of Spain, “Catalonia is Spain's richest and most highly industrialised region.”
Has the thought struck you that they have more debt because they can afford to service more debt? When we start seeing tales that they can't pay their debts then you can criticise...
On the other hand Argentina: formed by Spanish separatists, and...look at the economy and you will see what the nationalists have done to it.
Chuckle Chuckle
Sunshine
Aug 13th, 2013 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Generally people that believe in self-determination and freedom can.
Liar ©
*39 “ Catalonia WAS spain´s richest region” It is totally stuffed now.....
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@36 Hektor: “it is unconstitutional!”
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Change the constitution
Sunshine
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You obviously haven't looked at the rest of Spain.
Liar ©
Hey Sunshine do you know the latest test match score?
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sunshine
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.economist.com/topics/spanish-economy.
Liar ©
@44 Be serious:
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't think many Argentineans are interested in cricket
Comment removed by the editor.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@48: “we”
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chuckle Chuckle Chuckle Chuckle Chuckle Chuckle
@48: “asshole”
Liar
Sunshine
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0After borrowing upto 100 BILLION Euros?? That could keep even Imelda Marcos in shoes.
Liar ©
*49 Go back to sleep!! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*50 www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-03/spain-s-crisis-fades-as-exports-lead-the-way
English Tourism will pay back the 100 billion in no time. asshole
Sunshine
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not with the crowd we send down there. By the time they have had a little fun, your damage will be 100 billion. I like Portugal.
Liar ©
Comment removed by the editor.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@53: “ Portugal is nice, too.”
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is, but I doubt you've ever been.
*54 ohhh!! if you only knew!!
Aug 13th, 2013 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Got to go!! Duty calls“” have a nice evening!
@51 aussie sunshine: “Go back to sleep!!”
Aug 13th, 2013 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0oh!! This was the most entertainment since DoD.
I should try to get some sleep...I have been awake since Sunday morning.
@42 Screenname: “change the constitution.”
Aug 13th, 2013 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for your response.
It takes around two years to do so. After a long process that involves both chambers of Congress (2/3 majority) and a constitutional assembly, the final step is a national plebiscite. Even if it is approved by Congress (which is extremely unlikely,) it will never be approved by the voters.
Like it or not, the dispute will continue until resolved by Argentina and the UK.
Hektor
Ozzie Sunstroker
Aug 13th, 2013 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0is really taking a sh*tkicking on this thread !!
Ha ha, it really just shows the limits of his intellect, nothing more!
#57 Hahaha...diplomatic disaster and a running sore for the failed Foreign Minister then, no practical progress whatsoever despite high volumes of useful rhetoric. Sack him...
Aug 13th, 2013 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@13 This is indeed a genuine possibility. Many have already suggested that Spain could split into 3 countries.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hi:
Maybe more than 3 countries. Do not forget about Valencia, Andalucia, and Galicia. Therefore, we aare talking about the above mentioned three plus Catalunya, Vascongada, and the rest.
My grandparents were Catalanes: Visca Catalunya!!! :)
Hektor
The spanish Rajoy is trying to carry his 26% of unemployment into Gibraltar nothing else.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 045 aussie sunshine (#)
Aug 14th, 2013 - 12:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0'If link does not work google it!! asshole.'
'asshole'? How remarkably un-orstralian.
62
Aug 14th, 2013 - 01:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Very Argie-Troll, though.
:-)
Why pretend to be Australian? Are they embarrassed to be Argy?
Aug 14th, 2013 - 03:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's all part of the pretence that everyone supports Argentina.
Aug 14th, 2013 - 03:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0@64... I would be......
Aug 14th, 2013 - 06:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0@57 Hektor: “ it will never be approved by the voters”
Aug 14th, 2013 - 06:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0All of this would not have been an issue with Argentinean voters for decades in 19th and early 20th centuries.
Never is a long time, and in my opinion, the official Argentine view on the history is flawed over many different aspects. There is no reason why Argentina could not teach a more truthful version of the tale, which still contains respect for the common Argentinean soldier of 1982. Argentina's current views and actions not only show Argentina in a bad light, but also cast a shadow across most of the Americas, via the actions of their allied governments.
Respecting the Falklanders control of their own land is the decent thing to do. Yes, many Falklanders are recent immigrants, but control of that immigration lies with the Falklanders, so therefore they are just as valid citizens as immigrants to Argentina or the UK would be.
Your excuses for Argentina's position hold no more validity than the idea that we should tolerate paedophiles and murderers in society using the logic “they are not going to change.” An extreme example, but true.
I “liked” the way the Spanish official said ”(we) cant trust the UK“ whilst trying to claim back a slice of land they gave away ”in perpetuity”.
Aug 14th, 2013 - 08:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Kinda says it all really ;-0
Bloody amazing:
Aug 14th, 2013 - 08:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23694400
This guy dishes the dirt on the UK. Can't trust us, well that is the pot calling the kettle black. Their Foreign Minister's poisonous rhetoric 'v' Gibraltar and the UK with the International Law of The Sea, EU Law, International Law and the UN Charter on its side. And what does Spain say “Oh, er, Mrs, can't trust'em por favor !” I know who my money is on!
The British pay billions into the Euro dream while the Spanish, a poor nations, takes out billions. This they will remember when the British sabotage and disrupt Spanish activities in Brussels by vetoing its nominations from committees and blocking policy proposals. There will be tears in Madrid.
Aug 14th, 2013 - 11:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Goog God!! The Scotts have invaded London!!
Aug 14th, 2013 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ argy_ sunstroke
Aug 14th, 2013 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its the equivalent of the world cup final for them: jolly well played to our plucky Scots neighbours!
You must be chuffed; Arg. 2 nil against one of your fatherlands.
*70 If you ask me that´s very smart of them.......I would do the same take instead of give......They aren´t silly are they?!
Aug 16th, 2013 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*72 The Scotts are a proud lot and so they should!!
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