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Malvinas' flagged vessels ideological solidarity with Argentina costs Uruguay lost jobs and income
To the loss of transshipments from Argentina, estimated in 100 million dollars a year by Montevideo port authorities, must be added the 60 million dollars following the ban on Falklands' flagged vessels from operating in Uruguay, claimed Mario Baubeta, president of Uruguay's Navigation Centre. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWell it's perhaps time Uruguay stopped trying to placate it's impotent, yet insane neighbour, and started doing what is best for Uruguay.
Nov 01st, 2013 - 06:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0I guarantee that Argentina doesn't give Uruguay a second thought when making it's decisions.
Uruguay, happy to accommodate Hitler's battleships in accordance with the laws of war, but not a harmless merchant boat from the Falkland Islands. Honestly.
Nov 01st, 2013 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Think of youeself first Uruguay, and stop implementing Argentina's foreign policy for it, to your cost.
Nov 01st, 2013 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0LATAM solidarity HaHaHaHa
Nov 01st, 2013 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0What goes around, comes around :-)
Nov 01st, 2013 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0A very sad commentary to be held hostage by that lunatic in Argentina...cut the rope!
Nov 01st, 2013 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Uruguay can it change its geographical location so will always have to deal with Argentina. However its inability to chart an independent foreign policy is having real economic consequences.
Nov 01st, 2013 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do either of Uruguay's neighbours reciprocate?
No!
Oh well, so some Uruguayans have lost there livelihoods and now unable to support their families, seems fair game to me, that's what they are doing or at least trying to do to the Falklands, good for the goose, good for the gander. Still think it's laughable that they think harming the economy of Falklands will do anything anyway, it takes a lot more than that to keep the good old British people down.
Nov 01st, 2013 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Again bad “business” made by the Uruguayan government. It´s a chronic issue , with the PLUNA disaster perhaps the most known off.
Nov 01st, 2013 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure, trade with a 3000 habs island seems not to weight against trading with a 40.000.000 country.
But it does.
Besides we have to live upholding our beliefs, looking for the long term, instead of striving for short terms profits in an amoral way.
Kitchenrists were able to blow out the mind of Mujica and impose their will on Uruguay. I hope this will end as soon as a new government take over since no opposing party candidate seems to agree with the current policy related to Argentina and the Falklands.
The moral of the story is grow some balls!
Nov 01st, 2013 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But don't forget all that brotherly love that Stevie keeps harping on about.
Nov 01st, 2013 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You know it makes nonsense!
I cannot wait for Vasquez for all his abortion and religious hangups due to his wife, he just cannot be such a lamentable creature as Pepe, can he?
25% of Montevideo's port activity: Whooooooo!
Nov 01st, 2013 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder how long this 'unity' will last..?
This sabre rettling rhetoric by RA isnt going to stop
Nov 01st, 2013 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Any government based on corruption, intimidation and thuggery needs a distraction
Irecall aprediction in March 1982 in the Argentine prees - the only thing that can save this government is a war. History repeating itself?
So from an Argentina the easiest target is Uruguay
We have alienated most of our traditional allies and dont have any outside the “fraternal properity sphere ” of the mercosur
So some mutual defence agreements a should be put in hand without delay, Chile and Paraguay being possible candidates. Falkland flagged ships should be welcomed once again to dock in Montevideo and a direct air link between Montevideo and Mount Pleasant in the Falklands opened up
Any such arrangments would be of course harrased by Argentina. The Argentine government should be warned unequivocally that any such action would be a hostile act. If they try to use thugs like La Compora they would be treated as pirates
Hanging at the yardarm is out but they might be liked to be dumped off somewhere else. Somalia perhaps?
Perhaps some would ask,
Nov 01st, 2013 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who actually governs and runs Uruguay,
Argentina or a puppet,
Would not it be better for the Uruguayan people to decide there fate,
Rather than an Argentinian puppet state.
CFK care not, but for her very own agender, that probably includes the eventual claim and over throw of Uruguay,
Just a thought.
.
could send a few warships to Montevideo to help out if you want, just in case the rgenweens get lippy
Nov 01st, 2013 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't believe the US 100M for a second, and even if it were true does anybody on MP think the argies can “manage” the changes without it all falling apart.
Nov 01st, 2013 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So, the argies will either forego the exports or be sending them back to MVD.
To be fair, MVD can’t organise a piss up either, just look at ship-mapping to see tens of container and freight ships off the east coast stretching beyond Punta del Este. Our container ship was out there for FOUR days before it was even called into the local queue. And then there was the Aduanas to wait for.
But our transit through the port only took two weeks. My Argentine neighbour was astounded when he knew we had received our goods as it took at least three months and many bribes to get a container through BsAs.
As a reward for barring Falkland vessels, we terminate Argentine transshipments.
Nov 01st, 2013 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Best regards,
Arg. Gov.
What South America as a whole is too stupid to realise is that banning Falkland ships don't lose the Islands money-it loses South America money.
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 01:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Islanders just avoid the need to use South American ports-and the people there lose jobs.
Nearly every country that has pledged solidarity with Argentina over the Falklands has been shafted.
More fool them.
Hahahahaha Pete!!!
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 06:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes!!!
Our economies are heavily dependant on shipments from the Islands.
Somehow, we managed to create a 300 million people market where the profit is directly linear with the traffic between the Island and the mainland...
Hahahahahaha!!!!!
@ 19 Stevie
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 10:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh dear, you just cannot see the wood for the trees can you?
Anything for laughable, mythical SA “solidarity”, even if Uruguay suffers.
As for 300M market, how much crack are you smoking? The argies cannor import unless they export, this even affected the Olympic athletes wanting to import equipment needed for training: they were told by “Pistol Pete” Moreno THEY had to export the same value as the import! Ha, ha, ha.
Venezuela: what a basket case: we are all Chavez now! Oh, of course, the commie bastard got himself killed by his Cuban doctors who misdiagnosed his cancer, so all together now: “we are not Chavez”, but the little bird is taking over running the country as the present idiot still thinks he is driving a bus.
And the Cowpat coca farmer who blows a so called instrument failure into an international incident but can’t find his arse when it comes to international trade.
I could go on but what is the point? You are regressing to the worst of your old Guzz persona, just why are you so racist (and I use this in the real sense of the word NOT as an insult)?
Chris
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Again, if I dislike you lot it has nothing to do with your race.
Why not taking responsability for what you lot say and do? Why do you always have to blame someone else or hide behind a particular skin colour?
THAT is racism...
Stevie
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you are truly Uruguayan, one has to wonder why you would support a country that is trying to strangle the life out of your own.
That would make you a traitor, wouldn't it?
Or are you just a coward who is so afraid of the 'big bad wolf' next door that you'll roll over and perform any trick that they ask of you?
Well I'll let you into a secret. The 'big bad wolf' next door is actually a small impotent mange-ridden poodle with a loud bark. Give it a smack and it'll run away with it's tail between it's legs, crying and whimpering.
Lep
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Recent numbers shows that Uruguayan exports to Argentina have dropped more than 20% last month
Uruguays overall export increased 8%.
What are you talking about?
Argentina wishes to go preotectionist, and us Uruguayans can only try yo diversify our market in order to maintain the numbers.
And we are doing quite well, thank you very much...
Firstly Uruguay have nothing to worry about, Stevie is “on a journey” that will solve their energy crisis and then he will run for President with his own brand of socialism which has never been tried anywhere else.
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0PMSL hahahahahahahahah...stop stop...my sides are aching. Hahahahahahahahaha....how far up his own arse is that spotty sweaty student??? PMSL hahahahahahahahah.
Anyway, now I've dried my eyes, and stopped banging the floor with my fists with the hilarity of Stevies over inflated ego...ooops no hahahahahahahahaha PMSL.
The question really is whether Uruguays stance towards the islanders is worth a single lost dollar or a single lost job.
Stevie (racist turd) can't make up his rather thick mind.
Firstly he claims that he has no issue with the islanders, but can't trade with them as Uruguay would lose trade elsewhere. This would suggest Uruguay is weak and can be bullied by Argentina.
When he lost this argument he claimed that actually it was because of the British “militarisation”. But then it was pointed out that Uruguay is quite happy to trade with Britain quite extensively.
Then he suggested that any trade with Britain was actually at a cost to British companies who were desperate and Uruguay won every negotiation, but the multinationals are charitable in this way.
The guy is thick as shit...and full f shit...but at least he's on a “journey”
Hahahahahah hahahahahahahahahah....hahahahahahahahahahahahahah...lLOLOLOLOL
No Monkey, it's much more simple than that. Uruguay is diversifying its trade and if we don't trade with the islanders, it's because there is more to gain elsewhere. I still have no issue with the islanders...
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And British, and US, companies DO wish to be a part of the SA development, despite the fact of the ideological differences. It's all about cash, nothing out of the ordinary, don't act surprised...
And yes, Brit militarisation of S. Atlantic is a major reason things are like they are.
@25 Stevie
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poor stevie, Argentina's stooge. Willing to betray your own country so you can suck on the c@ck of your nazi friends.
Uruguay would be a better place without people like you.
Uruguay needs a stong leader who is going to do what is best for Uruguay, not what is best for the national socialists in the country next door.
Uruguay needs a leader of our choosing, not one of your picking.
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is called democracy.
What you suffer from is called buttache.
@27
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course, and if you choose one like Pepe again you'll continue to get shafted by your beloved neighbours.
Though at least let's be grateful that the Falkland Islanders won't get shafted by your neighbour.
So the best of luck-you'll need it with a neighbour like Argentina.
@ 26 LEPRecon
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie does not live in Uruguay though he says he has a vote.
With the plethora of little political parties it is impossible to get a strong leader elected in Uruguay as they would be blackballed by the others. That is why we get handwringers and wife dominated presidents that are good at horse-trading.
No first past the post here!
Mr. Ed's (Post No. 2) ignorance of the Uruguayan stance at the time of the Battle of the River Plate and during WWII is astounding.
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@30 Totally agree with you. Its a cheap comment on Uruguay and I think on Langsdorf as a man. Having commented on this sort of comment before on other threads I didnt bother to reply. Perhaps before he gobs off again he should read a bit of history
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...I've read it....coward that had one taste of actual battle with ships that could retaliate...and that was enough for him....
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Should have died in battle honourably...didn't even go down with his ship..
Was probably told to take his own life to save his family.....like Rommel...
...and allowed a complete crew to survive to be involved in the deaths of other allied troops....
...anyone that sympathises with him is a Nazis sympathiser....
@32 Anyone else like to reply to this halfwit? Too angry to do myself at present
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The fact are as I said above....you can say what you like but they remain the same.
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No excuses...you live by the sword...you die by the sword...and a Captain goes down with the ship..
@32
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would be careful with Langsdorf, he put up one hell of a fight against a superior Royal Naval Force for nearly 3 hours and was forced to retreat to Uruguay only after his ship had been pounded into submission.
I would like to see you take on the might of the RN during the war. Just the sheer size of Britain's Royal Navy un-nerved German commanders. He would have been deeply shocked by his defeat and the consequences of his actions in taking the Graf Spee to Uruguay, this especially given Hitlers lack of interest in the German Navy, this lack of interest saw many German officers in the Navy being threatened with death if they failed in their duty.
Also he was probably talked out of going down with the ship by his officers as his crew would have needed representation for their amnesty in politically neutral countries. The overall British commander, Commodore Harwood even remarked at Langsdorf's bravery in the battle.
Lastly, the RN had tricked the Germans into believing that a numerically huge force was waiting for him when in fact it was the same three types of cruisers that had battled him earlier, most of Spee's armament was out of action, meaning that a defenceless ship like that wold have gone down without a fight anyway, and also there was the risk of capture by British forces (something truly unacceptable from that perspective).
“Was probably told to take his own life to save his family.....like Rommel...”
Thats probably the most courageous thing a man can do, tell me is there nothing you would do to save yours?
I know the history...and his pocket battleship had guns three times the size of the British and he wasn't pounded into submission. He had already taken one of the ships out of the game so that left two....his damage was minimal....
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...I would have gone out fighting...he died anyway.......
@36
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It doesn't matter if your guns are three times larger! He was outnumbered 3 to 1 by three much faster cruisers that could run rings around the Spee. Oh and also Achilles and Ajax had 8, 6-inch guns and 4, 4-inch guns while Exeter had 6, 8-inch guns and 8, 4-inch guns.
3 x 6= 18 inches. Graf Spee only had 6, 11-inch guns and 8, 6 inch guns. So I fail to see how she had guns three times the size of the Royal Navies.
Also the damage may have seemed superficial but Spee's Sea worthiness had been impaired, her oil plant system was destroyed, her desalination plant and galley were also destroyed, which would have increased the difficulty of a return to Germany. Oh and not only had she suffered heavy casualties but most of her ammunition was gone, making any last fight pointless. These were all problems that could not be repaired in Uruguay, especially under the neutrality rules.
Langsdorf fought the good fight, the British commanders admitted this and I seriously doubt that you would be all heroic and try and fight and risk the lives of your crew so wastefully, when they could live to possibly fight another day.
Oh and yes he did knock Exeter out of the fight but it didn't matter as the British ships were able to carry out repairs quite quickly and bring up possible reinforcements to the fight later while Spee couldn't to her defence.
Oh and one last thing; the whole go down with your ship thing had largely gone out of fashion by this period, Captain Smith in Titanic in his nervous broken down mind is one of those famous exceptions to the rule when it came to ships sinking that has everyone convinced that the captain of vessels ranging from an Aircraft Carrier to a Kayak go all noble and honourable and die with their vessels when in reality they rarely do.
Who said the cruisers were faster...they weren't.
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...and Exeter was wrecked..there were only two ships waiting...
You should look at the size comparison of the shells from the Spee...
The cruisers knew that the Spee could in fact beat them and only had a slim chance of survival...hence sacrificing the Exeter down the middle and the other two coming either side so the Spee could only fire on one at a time...
They also knew the two would be beat...if the Spee came back out...hence all the delays waiting for reinforcements..
Langsdorf must have known he had a fighting chance but didn't take it......Coward!
@38
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Again you aren't listening, HMS Cumberland a heavy Cruiser had arrived to replace Exeter, meaning that not only was the RN back up to strength but was also fully re-armed against an opponent that had exhausted most of her ammunition, it doesn't matter how large her guns were, the RN had more of them and had inflicted more hits (70) then on Spee had on them. And as I said the RN had encouraged the rumours regarding more vessels in the area as they un-nerved Langsdorf, he fought the good fight and had earned all the honours of war. Had he of come out with damaged engine systems and low ammunition it would have been a for-gone conclusion, leave him alone.
Yes the RN feared Spee's power but this was countered by their numerical superiority and larger number of guns, man power and repair and re-arm abilities. The match up was very much equal and this is proved by both sides withdrawing from the battle at the same time. Both sides had equally punched up the other.
I see you didn't bother replying to everything else I said, that would be an admission of me being correct.
You know with all your treatment of Langsdorf, I would imagine you would also be amongst those people who thinks that Yamamoto was evil or that Nelson was a reckless commander.
Say what you like....he scuttled his ship rather than go out fighting..you will never convince me this was right. It's like throwing away a loaded gun because the opposition have guns.....
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0HE WAS DECEIVED!!!!! I have said that about 3 times now! Everyone in Montevideo was convinced there was a large British strike fleet waiting for the Spee. Why waste all those men in a ridiculous suicide run when they can live to fight another day? Langsdorf was 10 times the man the you or I would ever be. He had done everything the articles of war required and his honour was full along with enormous respect from the British side, I value the opinion of Harwood more then you boyo,, for pretty obvious reasons.
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But you obviously don't seem interested in listening so never mind.
Your interpretation.....and mine is....a Captain that only sank unarmed ships until one day he came up against armed ships...
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So he put his men ashore, sank his ship and was told to commit suicide...end of another dead Nazis...
You are deceived...
He sunk nine merchant vessels yes, but he was extremely honourable and didn't harm their civilian crews in any way, (something ALL of their crews remarked upon and respected), when challenged he attacked and inflicted heavy damage on a RN squadron. He scuttled his ship to prevent her capture and as a result spared his crews lives and his families in his suicide as the blame would rest on him and not them, now thats honourable and brave
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0“another dead Nazis...”
Also you show an ignorance of history as the German Navy hated Hitler for the most part and he hated them, they were frequently at each other throats, Langsdorf fought for his crew, his country and his honour, not for Hitler and the Nazi party.
Calling the German Navy pro-Nazi is ridiculous.
Stop generalising I've heard the same arguments for the Wehrmacht and the SS.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0You have no idea his political views....you assume.
Do you know
“ I shall face my fate with firm faith in the cause and the future of the nation and of my Führer.”
Sounds Nazis to me...
@44
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 01:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Did I generalise? No. I said “mostly” notice the difference? I have never supported those statements regarding the SS for instance as that would be ludicrous.
Those were his last words and he was more that likely trying to gain favour in his position especially for the sake of his Crew and Family. Notice the word Fuhrer was last? Emphasis that he believed in the cause firmly and to the last, else he would be seen by many as a coward.
And even if Langsdorf was an ardent Nazi, and he more than likely wasn't my statements regarding the Kriegsmarine are still true. Go and look up how Hitler viewed them.
Now leave Langsdorf alone.
No...I won't
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 01:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0...his last words were he believed in the CAUSE...what cause..the Nazis cause...
You have your opinion and I have mine....
...just another dead Nazis Coward is mine.
And you being an un-informed troll with a slight Nazi obsession is my opinion.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 01:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh btw I never really worked out where you are from, do you mind telling? I was just wondering thats all.
Here we go lose the argument and have to resort to the name calling.....
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 01:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Oh btw I never really worked out where you are from”
and you never will.....
Ahh..so a chicken and a troll?
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 01:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0I never lost the argument and its a bit hypocritical for you to call me out on name calling when you were throwing around the word coward without any basis. Langsdorf was 10x the man you will ever be.
Mind you its possible that given that many on here consider you to be an incantation of Think that you are, as he is an Argie of Germanic/Scandinavian extraction. It fits considering your interest in that period of history and your general knowledge of the region wouldn't it?
You lost...
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 02:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0I said he's just another dead Nazis.....
You said he wasn't..
His last words pretty much prove he was.
Mmmm what do they normally say about suicide...fill in the blank...
It's the ______way out......
a clue, the first letter is C and Rhymes with Howard......
Did I deny he was a Nazi? I said he wasn't a hardcore follower, much like the rest of the German Navy.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 02:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Last words prove nothing, especially considering that was a letter he wrote hours before his suicide, he was in contact with hotel staff right before he killed himself so we don't really know what his last words were.
He killed himself to save his family and crew, nothing cowardly about that. He would of went down with the ship but his officers would not let him. Would you take your own life to save your family? I use family to describe both his genetic family and his crew by the way. Would you actually really consider being called a coward for one second if your death saved your family? No exactly.
I have said this 5 times now, when will you get the message?
Now its 230 AM so I'm going to bed, good night.
This guy spends more time defending a nazi than attacking Argentina...
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 04:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0(49) Conor J
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 06:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0You say (to Mr. A_Voice)…:
“Mind you its possible that given that many on here consider you to be an incantation of Think that you are, as he is an Argie of Germanic / Scandinavian extraction. It fits considering your interest in that period of history and your general knowledge of the region wouldn't it?”
I say (to you)….:
From our previous encounters, I seem to remember that you are a British White Supremacist and a War-Mongerer………. but let that rest.
My personal opinion on Kapitän Langsdorf is, opposite Mr. A_Voice's, quite positive.
I will just refer to some of his last words...:
“Ich werde uns nicht von einer Übermacht in Stücke schießen lassen. Für mich sind tausend junge Männer lebend mehr wert als tausend tote Helden.”
H.W.L
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/10/12/argentina-sends-top-level-political-mission-to-ghana-after-the-ara-libertad#comment174390
Enough said.
@53 At last we can agree on something Thinko
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0@52
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're not very bright.
@53
Well from our previous encounters I remember you as an un-informed deluded idiot so obsessed with the Anglo-sphere and lacking in any real historical insight to make a real informed and accurate decision on anything, as well as the sort of chap that once humbled or proven wrong hasn't got the guts to admit to it.
Well I'am glad that you agree with me on Langsdorf, but White Supremacist? I fail to see were you got that idea from, I have a large variety of friends and acquaintances from around the world, I grew up in Kent for gods sake, with neighbours from all ethnicities.
War-Mongerer? What like that Homophobic nob, Conqueror? When have I ever called for war???? I have an interest in military history yes but that doesn't mean that I want a repeat of the Napoleonic wars or 1982 now does it?
Try again thinly boy before you make untrue accusations.
Was Langsdorf a Nazi?
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0His upbringing and behaviour and even his death would indicate otherwise. Born on the Island of Rugen son of a Protestant pastor, he was a most unlikely candidate to be accepted by theGerman Naval Academy at Kiel. So how did he manage it?
The Langsdorf family moved to Dusseldorf and became intimate friends with another family, that of Admiral Maximilian Graf von Spee. His two sons, Hans boyhood friends were destined for a naval carreer and I have little doubt that von Spee pulled a few strings to get Langsdorf accepted as well
Von Spee was a man of principles.and relly got on quite well with his British oppos. Indeed he had fought alongside Kit Craddock, the man he defeated at Coronel only later to lose his own life and those of both his sons at the Battle of the Falklands
One of his captains, von Muller of the SMS Emden has a remarkable similar history in his attitude to commerce raiding as Langsdorf. Indeed it is highly likely that Langsdorf would have met von Muller on his return from captivity to Germany and learned a few tips from him
So here we have a man in command of a great ship named after his mentor and we can imagine his feelings about that
More evidence. When Langsdorf shot himself in an hotel room he first wrapped himself in the old Kries marine ensign, not the Nazi flag
At the funeral of his crewmen in Montevideo , much to the disgust of the German ambassador he gave the old naval salute rather than the Nazi Hiel Hitler. Indeed his former British captives sent a wreath to that funeral inscribed To Our Brothers of the Sea. Captain Dove of the tanker SS Africa Star, one of Langsdorfs prisoners would never hear a bad word said against Langsdorf
Sure Langsdorf made some bad errors of judgement in his tactics at the battle, but I will go into that aspect in a later post if anyone is interested.
Guys!
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A_Voice is not a logical person, only he thinks he is.
Don’t confuse him with facts like the RN had more heavy guns than the Spee: the Spee’s were BIGGER! The fact that probably twice the hit rate was being taken by the Spee, JUST DOESN’T MEAN A THING!
He does not realise that this is to some extent a penalty if only for the fact that a hit with an 8” shell very often has the same effect IN PRACTICE as a much bigger shell which also takes longer to reload. Just think of hitting a fly: you can kill it with a rolled up light newspaper, have you ever tried a metal hammer?
Now let’s all just agree that anybody who allegedly rides a Triumph America that only has 60bhp AND a 270° firing angle to sound like a HOG must be right about everything, deluded as he is.
http://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/range/cruisers/america/2013/5591
I bet he looks as cool as the lady sitting on the kerb; he WON’T look as cool as the guy on the bike. Ha, ha, ha.
Oh shut up you silly old duffer.......
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I really do believe this Geriatric has-been ...runs about on a Sportsbike...ha ha and ha!
You must now have the reaction reflexes of a slug....you are almost dead...for goodness sake. You wouldn't last two minutes on a Sportsbike...dream on..Grandad..
Even I avoid superbikes now and I'm decades younger than you...
Instead of disputing without knowledge read this...
The pocket battleships were fitted with two main turrets each with three, eleven- inch, forty-five caliber guns located on the bow (front) and stern (back) of the ship. These guns fired a 670 pound shell that had an effect range of about 30,000 yards, or seventeen miles.
The reported damage to the Exeter demonstrated to Captain Perry of the Achilles the power that the Graf Spee possessed. “I remember a rather sickening feeling in the pit of my tummy as I realized we were in for an action in which the odds were hardly on our side. Luckily there wasn’t much time to think about that.”
The Exeter had the heaviest guns in the group with eight-inch guns that fired a 256 pound shell and had an effective range of twelve miles. The Ajax and the Achilles conversely held six-inch guns that fired 112 pound shells with an effective range of eight miles.
At roughly 0700, the Exeter began to limp back towards the Falkland Islands; all wireless communications aboard had been destroyed. This left only the light cruisers to engage Langsdorff. Harwood now realized that his only advantage in the battle had just been taken out the equation and the concentrated fire of the eleven-inch guns of the Graf Spee far outclassed what firepower he posed. “We might just as well be bombarding her with a lot of bloody snowballs…”
At 0725, the Ajax received a direct hit from the Graf Spee, putting her back turret out of action. With less than 20 percent of main gun ammunition left in both ships’ magazines, Harwood made a smokescreen and pulled his ships out of range of Langsdorff.
A man can't always choose what to do, he's not always allowed to. But he can choose what not to do.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- Mario Benedetti
@58 Langsdorffs first major error was to fight the battle at all. The three German pocket battleships were designed and built for a “guerre de corse” as propounded by the French jeune ecole school of naval thought. As such they were commerce raiders and not suited for engaging other naval forces in pitched battle
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To this end they were fast enough to outrun most heavy naval units and with thier heavy armament to fight off any faster pursuing ships. So why Langsdorff decided to engage Harwoods squadron is a matter of unresolved speculation
With a trials speedof 32 knots Exeter probably had the legs to catch him as the Spees speed was 28. Both ships probably had less speed owing to worn engines and in a stern chase the Spee could most likely have put the Exeter and her consorts out of action at long range with her heavier armament
The Spee had elementary radar which the Brits did not
Even in the earlier stages of the battle Langsdorff, once he had seen the strength of his opponents could have made a run for it but he didnt
58 A_Voice
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Even I avoid superbikes now and I'm decades younger than you...”
Well, if you will misread the road and lose it on an island and hit a metal pole with your body, then yes, you are doing exactly the correct thing for other road users: keeping stupid sods off superbikes.
I have been riding big bikes since the age of 16 (350 Triumph twin - no size restrictions then) and I have been riding bigger bikes since and I still do.
The thing is, I learn from near misses in lack of reading the road or even miss-judgement with the controls. On polished concrete slab roads with a hint of water, twisting the throttle (that's the rh grip) can light up the rear tyre (and it’s a 190/50R17 BT-016) and cause a sideslip: but only once. You tend to stay alive and unhurt that way.
Back to the Spee, etc. I do not understand your term of “11 inch forty-five calibre guns”. They didn’t have a secret Colt 1911, A1 mounted on each of the barrels as well did they? (These are semi-auto pistols).
Try understanding the practical results of this conflict. The biggest problem that faced the RN was closing the gap on the range difference of FIVE miles, NOT the size of the projectile (remember that exterior ballistics of any bullet or shell depends on the energy of the shell and its ballistic coefficient, (E=1/2 MV squared). Yes, a strike from a 670 lb shell is more than from a 256 lb but not as much as expected or as you imagine.
An 8 in shell through the bridge will do as much damage to the people inside as the big ones will, but the ship has to be in range.
No doubt you will ignore these facts as you have all the others above that do not fit your “view” on things. Reading without understanding does not make for a good start when going against others who do understand and have a knowledge of the science involved.
You didn’t go to a girls school did you only you seem lamentably poor on physics: ah, perhaps you are a female then?
Gave up bikes years ago after I wrapped a Four square 1,000 cc Ariel round telegraph pole on an icy road
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apparently there are ongoing salvage operations taking place to raise the Graf Spee, not least because it is a hazard to navigation. The ship was scuttled in full sight of Montivedeo rather than in the deeper waters where the River Plate meets the Atlantic. Some parts of the ships mast are actually still visiable above the water. Hea'ven knows what they'll do with it.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some in the German Navy have complained about this, with talk about desecration of a war grave, but obviously the deliberate sinking of ones own ship without loss of life excludes vessels from such reverential considerations.
@63 It's not a war grave as no one died when she was scuttled. Yes the eagle from her bow was salvaged some years ago and I think the ownership is still under litigation
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 061
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't blame me for an inconsequential technical error....blame the source..
http://www.writing.com/main/view_item/item_id/1888339-The-Mistake-at-the-River-Plate
I have already mentioned before....that I had an Exup..which was faster and more powerful than anything that you have had....so what...if you don't ride it to the limit there is not point in having it....
...and I did mention before, that I had High-sided it.... happens to the best..
With a huge amount of power to the rear wheel any sudden loss and regaining of traction can flip you like a rag doll...and the faster you were going the further the flying lesson...
It has nothing to do with how many years you were riding bone-shakers...
http://www.writing.com/main/view_item/item_id/1888339-The-Mistake-at-the-River-Plate
...and for those that don't know the term...
highside
”Old School Biker term for a crash where the bike and rider slide over the outer edge (highside) of a curve form losing traction due to wet or rough pavement, excessive speed, or, more than likely, simply showing one's ASS, drunk, stoned or sober!”
There is no point in crawling about on a Sportsbike like a fanny....you might as well admit that it's time to move on....
Besides I did say I'm thinking of trading the America for this......
http://www.writing.com/main/view_item/item_id/1888339-The-Mistake-at-the-River-Plate
64 redp0ll
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure, you can hardly have a war grave without any war dead.
I’m not a marine lawyer but i suspect that if you scuttle your own vessel than abandon it for several decades you probably forfeit any claim of ownership. The laws on salvage also tend to favour the salvager against the original owner.
I remember watching the 1950’s Powell and Pressburger film “Battle of the River Plate” on TV some years ago; and very watchable it was too with dramatically realistic battle scenes which used real war ships. It starred Peter Finch as Captain Langsdorff and Anthony Quayle as Captain of HMS Ajax.
Amazingly some of the ships which took part in the actual battle, HMS Achilles for example survived the war and were used in the making of the film; an indisputable case of art imitating life.
@65 Don't blame me, blame the messenger. Is that your message? I happen to have done considerable research on this and many of my comments now appear on Wikipedia articles
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yep. That old film. Btw she was a Kiwi ship, HMNZS Achiles
67
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Don't blame me, blame the messenger.”
are you confusing the adage....Don't shoot the Messenger?
“.....and many of my comments now appear on Wikipedia articles”
....whoopee doo...anyone can comment on a wiki article.
all worship and bow down to Redpoll...
Hail the mighty.....Nazi sycophant!
Nazi sycophant describes your attitude exactly Voice
Nov 04th, 2013 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0So I'm a servile self-seeking flatterer of Nazis?
Nov 04th, 2013 - 12:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0...I thought that was you
This is what happens in the real world where you seek to impose your imagined or personal opinion as a fact.
People disagree...
Because of his disobedience ...Do Not Engage Warships...and thirst for glory..
He was responsible for how many deaths of his own men and the deaths of the sailors on the Allied vessels?
I'm sure those sailors families thought Langsdorff was a hero.
Just another dead nazi to me....
Had away canny man and return to the ooze of Jarrow Slacks that spawned you
Nov 04th, 2013 - 01:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0I thought I could debate with you on serious subjects, but your mentality would make a ten year old ashamed.
All you Brit posters are mis informed as usual .
Nov 04th, 2013 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Graf Spee blew all 3 British ships out of the water with only 10 rounds . The gunners were all Argentine naval conscripts on attachment to Kriegsmarine .
Perfect replicas were then secretly built in Gibraltar to replace them , while the conniving British film industry faked pictures of the Graf Spee in flames . The Spee was sailed up the Parana in perfect condition , kept there till May 1945 and then incorporated into the Argentine navy .
It was going to be used in 1966 in Operation Condor , the first attempt to invade the Falklands , but never sailed due to a lack of spares .
Its still there and was used as a clandestine detention centre in the 70's .
Astiz ( Langsdorff's illegitimate son BTW ) was the captain for a while .
Langsdorff died in Bariloche in the 90's .
I was told all of this by a taxi driver in Buenos Aires , whose father , also a cab driver , used to drive Langsdorff's wife to the same hairdressers in Olivos that Evita used .
72
Nov 04th, 2013 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are confused...it was Adolf that died in Bariloche....
http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/the-girls-from-argentina-daughters-of-nazi-boss-adolf-hitler-who-escaped-from-berlin-on-april-27th-1945-thanks-to-franco-in-spain/
71
..........“return to the ooze of Jarrow Slacks that spawned you”
Same old M.O....and then come the insults.....ho hum
My name is Geordie McIntyre, An' the Bairns don't even have a fire
So the wife says “Geordie, go to London Town!”
And if they don't give us half a chance, Don't even give us a second glance
Then Geordie, with my blessings, burn them down
Come on follow the Geordie boys, They'll fill your heart with joy
They're marching for their freedom now
Come on follow the Jarrow lads, They'll make your heart feel glad
They're singing now, yes now is the hour
http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/the-girls-from-argentina-daughters-of-nazi-boss-adolf-hitler-who-escaped-from-berlin-on-april-27th-1945-thanks-to-franco-in-spain/
65 A_Voice
Nov 04th, 2013 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please tell me you are not serious?
Not even you could fall for this overweight wanabe HOG! Compare your present machine with this:
American: 240 bhp/tonne (no rider) 250 kg. Torque 53 ft.lbs @ 3300 rev/min
Storm: 286 bhp/tonne (no rider) 19% more, 339 kg 36% heavier. Torque 115 ft.lbs @ 2950 rev/min
117% MORE TORQUE: hope the rubber band stands up to it.
At $14,799 it’s 78% dearer as well, but you are worth it!
Just don’t try high-siding that or having the front slip away, especially on Mulholland.
The big bad colonists of the 21st Century are not the UK or the US .
Nov 04th, 2013 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's the Chinese .
1 ) The Chinese control 30% of food supermarkets in Buenos Aires and the big cities . That figure grows by the day.
2 ) They have build secret training camps in Salta with weapons ranges where they practice military skills , sabotage , infiltration and economic warfare .
3 ) The biggest concentration of chinese supermarkets is around barracks and naval bases , so they can overcome the armed forces in a lightning strike .
4 ) There is no bread to be had , because the chinese govt. bought the next 5 years' supply to destabilise Argentina , cause inflation and food riots .
5 ) You never see a chinese person dressed as a gaucho , wearing an escarapela , dancing the tango , watching football or eating an asado . Ever seen one drink mate ? Thought not . Ever asked yourselves why ? Because they hate Argentina
6 ) The chinese govt. recently offered to buy the Falklands off Britain . Asked why , they said because penguin feet taste like chickens feet , but what they really meant was “ We are out to really shaft Argentina ”
You are all doomed , I tell you .
74
Nov 04th, 2013 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am half serious...sort of toying....
Well it's like this.....
I bought the America.....told the rep...take the seat and the drag bars off the Speedmaster...give me the “off road” exhausts...the seat and bars will cost you nothing...mark them down as damaged..Triumph will replace free. So it's only costing you the the difference in what you get for my standard exhaust when you sell them.....and I'll give you full price.
They went for that...
I put twin headlights on it and replaced the big speedo with one that fit in the tank and I shortened the rear mudguard.
Then low and behold they brought out the Storm looking exactly how mine is....
Ok it's heavy but it's a beast and can leave any Hog standing... has Triumph engineering and handles like a dream...so I've been told.
The final laugh was I got the America as a business asset...believe it or not...wily accountants..
So I'm toying....I don't think I would get away with it twice...lucky the first time. So only the difference of the trade in......Ha..why not...
Besides the Rocket III is heavier but watch this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rla9KU0m808
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rla9KU0m808
Besides I have one of these...although the DRZ.....on the road...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rla9KU0m808
7 Chinese proverbs for Argies .
Nov 04th, 2013 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 01 ) He who strikes the first blow admits he's lost the argument.
This one refers to a little row in April 1982
2 ) A fool judges people by the presents they give him.
They are renewing your railways for a reason , and it's not goodwill .
3 ) When you have only two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other.
This was BEFORE inflation . a ) he means dollars and b ) spend them both on bread , because tomorrow the price will have gone up
4 ) Hatred corrodes the vessel in which it is stored.
OK , who stored all that hate in the Trinidad ?
5 ) A loan is like rice eaten. It is soon forgotten.
Yes , but not by the rice vulture ...
6 ) To buy a quarrel, borrow money from a friend.
Done that one often enough....
7 ) Frugality is the mother of prosperity.
Social plans must be the father of destitution then....
76 A_Voice
Nov 04th, 2013 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I did look at a Rocket III but I just cannot face the windblast from a naked bike any more.
The 3/4 on my present bike is just right.
I was seriously thinking of a Triumph 1055 but the woman at Hinckly told me that they would not sell one knowing it was going to Uruguay “because you cannot import a bike yourself”. That convinced me they did not know what they were on about.
Don't forget that the amount of torque the new bike puts out high sides will be a real risk.
78
Nov 04th, 2013 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”would not sell one knowing it was going to Uruguay “because you cannot import a bike yourself”.
Don't really understand why they would say that...still there are dealers for Triumph in the States and they will ship...and you don't get charged the State tax as it's going out of the State.
Be a bit cheaper than the UK....
79 A_Voice
Nov 05th, 2013 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's OK until you get to Uruguay, then it's amortise the transport cost to the bike, multiply by two (100% import tax for personal imports) then multiply that lot by 1.22 for the VAT, then you pay an Aduanas “personal clerk” from a shipper 5,000 pesos (238 USD) to get it through for you plus the actual Aduanas port fees ab=nd they seem to be plucked out of the air.
Main dealers pay 50% import, the IVA and they get it through the Aduanas themselves. A K1000R costs USD 27,000 from them, don't know what the 1400 is.
The national speed limit here is 90 kph (56 mph) it's all based on the old US limits during the petrol crisis plus an allowance for the crap, no brakes, bald tyres, no front wings, no lights, really bad steering cars, that are everywhere.
But I love riding my bike! My “little run” is 85 miles long and the longest 128 miles. Can't beat it.
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