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Mujica says Argentina's attitude in Mercosur is 'insular' and shatters integration
Uruguay President José “Pepe” Mujica questioned Argentina’s recent decision to stop freight transfers at ports belonging to Mercosur countries Buenos Aires has no maritime agreements with. Mujica blasted an “insular” position that “shatters” regional integration. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesAs usual....
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pepe is right....
No! Uruguay is the union Brazil-Argentina.
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Irreconcilable differences. Who gets to keep the toaster?
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@2
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 03:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0No disrespect intended but that comment makes no sense whatsoever.
It's time for Uruguay to reopen its port to traffic from the Falklands. There is nothing to be gained by showing solidarity with a bully neighbor.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 03:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ramon
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 04:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Opening the ports for traffic from the Islands would be showing solidarity with bullying Brits. Send the war-mongering of the sorts home and I'm sure we find a solution that suits every party.
Uruguay shouldn't complain.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 05:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mujica has no right to criticise Mercosur or Argentina.
When Cristina departs this World and Argyland returns to normal, Uruguay and the Falkland Islands will be able to prosper in peace without the Nazi like threats from BA.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 05:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0@8 Be serious
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Has Argentina ever been normal?
From the Falkland Islands point of view, I say vote in Cristina for another term! She can then REALLY wreck what's left of Argentina.
As for Uruguay. Grow a pair, tell Argentina where to stuff it. Sign lots of agreements with the UK (including a mutual defence pact - that would really annoy them), and when they complain, politely acknowledge their complaint, and carry on as normal: showing Argentina just how inconsquencial it actually is.
Argentina may have been the 'big bad' of south America once, but now it is a toothless, old tiger, and it's about time Uruguay treated them as such.
@6 Who's war-mongering? The argies that INVADED in 1982 or the Britain that defended? The argies that are conducting an economic war in breach of the UN Charter or the Britain that is making sure it doesn't work? The argies who would like to conduct a military war but can't because they are broke and know they would get flattened? The latam states that are supporting the argie economic war, in breach of the UN Charter, or the Britain that ensures that none of them will succeed?
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 10:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0@7 I had to think about this, but then realised that you're right. Uruguay likes to ride the mercosur coattails and benefit. Now it's getting hurt and doesn't like it. Tough! Can't it gather a few members together and get argieland suspended?
@9 Living in the “trade” sphere, close the international bridges. Require all argie cargoes arriving in Uruguay, or at its borders, to return to argieland. The long way round. If argieland abandons them, seize them to take ownership, then dispose as appropriate. Foodstuffs? Sell them at knockdown prices. Soy? Can it be used in the pulp mill? Manufactured goods? Auction them.
Sorry Lep, historically Argentina has been with us in good and bad. Where was Britain when we needed help?
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina might be in trouble today, but she is not more toothless than the UK...
Stevie, Uruguay has not closed its ports to Falklands vessels - The reason why many fishing vessels have moved elsewhere to another S.American port was to do with corrupt lawyers and a corrupt system that backed them in filling crewen with drink and getting them to fill in ridiculous “compensation” claims against their employers.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 11:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Other vessels from the Falklands continue to trade with and are increasing trade with Uruguay,
Internationally Uruguay is becoming I believe a more important “container shipping hub port” than B.A. anyway for several reasons - one being Cristina!
Best thing Pepe can do is igore the lunatics up the river and carry one and make Montevideo a better alternative internationally.
@11 Stevie
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The President of a country is meant to put their own country and it's need before others.
The relationship with Argentina is poison. For far too long the government of Uruguay has put Argentina's wishes and desires above the good of Uruguay, probably believing that Argentina would reciprocate in kind.
But it is increasingly apparent that Argentina doesn't give a damn about Uruguay and it's people, and has been dragging it's feet over a number of issues that directly affect Uruguay, and it's ability to do business, because they see Uruguay as a direct threat to their own similar businesses.
Argentina has ONLY ever done what is good for Argentina. They don't give a damn about the rest of South America. They only trot out the latam solidarity whenever they need something, from their 'South American' brothers.
They are con artists, and it's about time Uruguay woke up to that realisation.
Uruguay's government is supposed to make the lives of the citizens of Uruguay better off, not the citizens of neighbouring countries.
Surely you must agree with that, if you really are a loyal Uruguayan citizen.
Uruguay and it's needs MUST be the priority for the government, and they need to stand up and be counted when other countries try to renege on treaties, or are trying to disrupt Uruguayan productivity.
The only country trying to do that is Argentina.
As for being toothless. Yes it is, and it's about time Uruguay realised it.
The UK isn't toothless. Argentina found that out in 1982, and if they are ever stupid enough to try invading the Falklands again, they will be retaught that lesson.
Why do you think Argentina wants Britain to remove the vast number of troops (all 1,200 of them) from the Falklands? Because, even though they have over 71,000 members of the Armed forces, they are afraid of the consequences of attacking.
Poor Argentina. Afraid of the British, because they only outnumber us by 60-1.
@11
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK is toothless? In what respect?
When was the last time anyone dared to invade British sovereign territory? 1982 and look how that turned out, we fought and won a war moving literally everything we needed to the other side of the planet
We are the second biggest producer of sophisticated arms on the planet after the US.
The biggest mistake our adversaries have made in history is underestimating us.
We will see how toothless we are if any latam nation tries to invade or harm the Falkland Islands again, the truth is, you really don't know what we have lurking under the sea in the South Atlantic.
Guys!
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why are you even bothering replying to Stevie: he is off his rocker and hates us, the Brits, for whatever nonsensical reason he has?
No-one else in Uruguay has these radical, stupid, views that Stevie has, even the old commie Pepe is beginning to wake up and see Argentina for what it has been since the poison of Peron took hold.
Stevie is locked into the Tupas view that resulted in the military rule of Uruguay because the stupid, stupid non-lawyer (just like TMBOA) couldn’t think TWO steps ahead when he formed the Tupameros.
NOBODY I have spoken to has a good word to say about the Tupas, though there must be some wacko or two who remembers “the good old days of robbing banks, gun clubs and murdering people”. Even Stevies parents, who were expelled from the country are now re-homed in Uruguay and taking a “social inclusion” pension since they could never have made the payments living in Sweden.
And what does he do: sucks up to the argies because of brotherly love, FFS.
You only have to look at post 6 to realise he has lost all perspective on reality.
Stevie's a classic example of “the empty vessel makes the most noise”. There's no substance or credibility in anything he says because he's a rich, bored attention-whore in Sweden pretending that he's a poor, fiery rebel in Uruguay - I'd feel embarrassed for him if he wasn't such an tosser.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did that “toothless” hurt, did it...?
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You guys are trying to convince me that Argentina is bad for us, but history has shown us Britain is worse.
You fail to realize that killing women and children around the globe isn't getting you lot any extra points.
Say what you want about who you want. I make my conclusions on what I see, not what I hear.
@17 nice one Stevie talking about murdering women and children on a debate about Rgenweener, your double standards amaze me
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let's be fair, people. Will “Stevie” give us his co-ordinates, honestly? Here's the options. You give your co-ordinates and argieland flies over and drops you a “present”. Or RAF Typhoons fly in and turn “Stevie” into a crater. Co-ordinates will be checked. Alternative is central Montevideo. Let's hear from you, “Stevie”. There may be a delay. Anywhere between 24 hours and 7 days.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have always thought of Stevie as a woman.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What info do you have that 'she' is not a woman?
@ 20 GeoffWard2
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, I don't think Stevie is a woman: he has a wife and child(ren) and is a middle ranking engineer who works on a rig supply vessel (RSV) in the North Sea.
He certainly has engineering knowledge but from my experience the RSV middle rank engineers are all men. These people actually work the deck and damn dangerous work that can be, no company would allow a woman in that position: senior engineers certainly and brought up in semi-sheltered jobs (inc. land based engineering).
The other clincher is that a woman would not be so easily swayed about brotherly love, in other words women are not so stupid.
The only problem I see here is that the rest of the world is obsessed with trying to drag Argentina to their point of view: whether its the IMF with their laments about Argentina's policies, or the USA with its incessant cries about how we should be more cooperative with them, or the EU and their whinging about our protectionism, or the UK throwing a tantrum at international gatherings to unload of litany of things “the evil argies refuse to sit down and engage us in” (fishing, cultural exchange, commerce, etc), or the other members of Mersosur or the rest of Latin America fidgety over the fact we refuse full integration with them.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0WE ARE DOING NONE OF THOSE THINGS.
Get that over your heads, IMF, EU, USA, UK, Mercosur, rest of the planet. If it benefits us, sure.
But since sitting down talking fishing with the UK, free trade with the EU, cooperation with the USA, integration with LatAm aretotally irrelevant to Argentina, as there is nothing anyone can actually name that Argentina needs from those scenarios, thus we just do nothing about any of them.
In order to have “treaties”, the other side most offer something compelling too. Europe, the UK, the USA, and Latin America as far as we know, have nothing compeling to offer, thus are irrelevant in Argentina's foreign policy mix.
Poor man he knows damn well that this was not a protectionist action, it was a punishment action for the UPM increase production.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dear god what a way to @rse lick this Pepe has. Pathetic.
You sell your country to the lowest bid and call Pepe pathetic for wanting to unite instead of divide. You love division, Cabeza. Is that how you make your money? Is that a requirement for your cashflow? Or does it just make things easier?
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We got people like you in Uruguay as well. Parrotting nationalists that helps nobody but themselves. But neither them nor you will make Argentina an enemy.
Our nations might have issues between them, the electorate will judge who handled the matter best, both here and there.
The only thing that is pathetic here is your disrespect of democracy.
I don’t see your country nor its people as an enemy, what I don’t want is you lot becoming our little bitches as Pepe is turned you into. Pepe is a pathetic appeaser and so are you. The only thing I want is that Argentine leaders treat a smaller and weaker neighbor with respect and practice good faith relations with it. Simple as that.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In your eyes we are weaker.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We are not weaker Cabeza, you are an excellent proof of that.
We are fewer.
26)
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don’t like De la Sota, he is a old crook and I did not vote for him last time he as being in power for years now in the Province, but he does defend the Provinces interest against the Central Government, last election confirmed the province is the most anti K of them all, so you can expect Cristina’s whip used with a liberal hand against us.
This is what De la Sota said at the beginning of the campaign listen carefully from 1:05 onwards. And I’m afraid I have to agree with the old fox on this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz9n9bcLVHE
He understands what your Pepe fails to...
Three bloggers were taking a hike when a genie appeared to them and said he would grant them each a wish
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think was granted the first wish
That all non native illegal settlers in Patagonia should disappear.
Done said the genie and Think disappeared in a puff of smoke
Next our snotty from Mendoza
What is our wish?
I want an impenetrable wall 10.000 meters high built round Argentina to keep the foreigners out
Done,said the genie
then it was Conquerors turn
genie, see that impermeable wall you just installed ?
Well, now fill it the brim with water
Now you have called Uruguay a province and a weak one op top of all.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Take your ideas and kindly shovel them up where they belong.
If there are any Argentine I should defend my country against, that would be your sort.
Where did I say Uruguay is a province?? I was expecting you would take note of the part and I quote “hicimos todos los esfuerzos por llevarnos bien con el gobierno de la señora presidenta. Pero No hay manera digna. Repito. NO HAY MANERA DIGNA DE TENER UNA RELACION NORMAL CON ESTA GENTE” But you prefer to victimize yourself.
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And nooooooow in shock of Braveheartness... You take it as if you were being offended and you are going to defend your country...jajajajajaajaja.
You are a joke Stevie. Get out of here
Cabezota
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You memory might be good but extremely short.
Or is it just selective? You talked about running over Uruguay before I reminded you you'd never find it on a map.
Now you say you merely have compassion for a weak nation.
Bajate de tu ego, vibaum, vas a morir de falta de oxígeno...
Stevie if we are going on about what I said in other threads, don’t take it out of context. You said yourself Uruguay is a province right after I said that …
Nov 03rd, 2013 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2013/10/30/botnia-upm-conflict-argentina-retaliates-against-uruguay-with-trade-and-port-measures#comment283942
And No… Mr Stevie, Argentina is not a Province, Cordoba is Province, but that doesn’t mean we will not defend all that is ours and have a central government in Buenos Aires telling us what to do and stealing from us and submitting in return.
Once you are giving excuses as to why you are being bullied like PEPE IS DOING NOW BY MAKING THIS INTO A PROTECTIONIST MATTER and having to ask PERMISSION on absolutely everything to the Casa Rosada you are submitting sovereignty even if UPM increases its production.
Naff said
How to tell a troll
Nov 04th, 2013 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Camel lions who change their names at the drop of Campora hat
Even our sage of Chubut is guilty of it
Thinks what ever happened to Dove over Dover? Cirrhosis of the liver in the RBL club?
As the rest of them, the seem t o change their soiled knickers frequently
@28
Nov 04th, 2013 - 03:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0I hope you are not taking credit for the joke, es mas viejo que la injusticia.
That joke is used by other Latin Americans against Argentines, which proves they never were very friendly to us to begin with. Same with the joke about bolts of lighting and argentines posing for the picture.
Cabeza
Nov 04th, 2013 - 05:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody asked of your permission for UPM.
Nobody asked of your permission for the regasification plant.
Nobody asked of your permission for the deep sea port.
Stop feeling so darn important. You are not.
Hi Redpoll.
Nov 04th, 2013 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0'Camel lions' ... captures the imagination!
http://switchzoo.com/zoo.htm ... try a Zebra-phant. :-)
G.
When your government is permanently giving explanations for its actions to my government that means it is effectively asking PERMISSION.
Nov 04th, 2013 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CFK : jump pepe!!,
Mujica: Certainly Madame...How high???
Ordering the ministers not to comment on the decisions is hardly giving you any explaination, Cabeza.
Nov 04th, 2013 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No matter how hard you try to make it be...
This is a punishment for your gov't desicions, not a protectionist matter. Its your fault for having asking permission and giving explanations all the time to CFK and her gang
Nov 04th, 2013 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No matter how hard you try to make it be....
Cabeza, lets say it's a punishment for Uru gov't decision.
Nov 04th, 2013 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How on earth do you get it to be Mujica's fault???
Mujica gave no explainations, he said that if the plant kept their contamination levels below the limits, he would allow the extension.
They did.
He did.
Were did he ask for Argentinas permission?
Ohh but he is not stupid enough to openly ask Argentina's permission, I know that there is bound to be patriots in Uruguay that will condemn him for doing so (and you are not amongst them), but when you have endless negotiations and low diplomatic channels to see how the other part will react you are effectively asking for permission. That’s basically entitling the Rosada to tell you what to do. After all your government tried to see how Argentina will accept another peper mill plant on the Uruguayan side of the River, and they had rejected it. You know this dummy boy
Nov 04th, 2013 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0NUEVA PLANTA
“Para los enviados de Mujica quedó en claro que la Argentina no admitirá la ampliación de la producción de UPM y mucho menos de la instalación de otra planta de celulosa en las costas del río Uruguay, como se deslizó en la reunión.”
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1625170-se-agravo-el-conflicto-con-uruguay-no-hubo-acuerdo-por-la-ex-botnia
Why doesn’t Argentina treat Chile the same way ??? Because Piñera never sucked up to CFK the way Mujica has.
A friend of mine sent this to me:
Nov 04th, 2013 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A LITTLE “JOKE” ESPECIALLY FOR THE COMMIES:
Recently, while I was working in the flower beds in my front garden, my neighbours stopped to chat as they returned home from walking their dog. During our friendly conversation I asked their little girl what she wanted to be when she grew up. She said she wanted to be Prime Minister someday.
Both of her parents, Labour Party members (aka the socialists), were standing there, so I asked her, “If you were Prime Minister what would be the first thing you would do?” She replied... “I'd give food and houses to all the homeless people.”
Her parents beamed with pride!
“Wow.....what a worthy goal!” I said. “But you don't have to wait until you're Prime Minister to do that!” I told her.
“What do you mean?” she asked.
So I told her, “You can come over to my house and mow the lawn, pull out the weeds, and trim my hedge, and I'll pay you £50.
Then you can go over to the shop, where the homeless guy hangs out, and you can give him the £50 to use toward food and a new house.”
She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight in the eye and asked, “Why doesn't the homeless guy come over and do the work, and you can just pay him the £50?”
Out of the mouths of babes!
And your understanding of matters is like an infants as well, dear Chris.
Nov 04th, 2013 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In our world there is not room for everybody to succeed, in order yo have rich we need to have poor. It's all a question about how we distribute the wealth.
But you chiflás pa'rriba and pretend the poor are poor because they want to...
@43 Actually I can agree with that you said.
Nov 04th, 2013 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 43 Stevie & @ 44 CabezaDura
Nov 04th, 2013 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh dear guys!
So we ALL have to give our money to the poor, diddums. It is clear to me NEITHER of you has ever been poor then.
I have said before on MP that my family was relatively poor. My father was a machine minder and my mother (once I was 5 and going to school) had a number of poorly paid jobs. Neither of them did well at school and left when they were 14 YO to work and support their families.
BUT, did you note the fact that BOTH worked all their lives until retirement and then they scraped an existence out because they had no savings to speak of.
NOW, the poor in Uruguay (I have no knowledge of The Dark Country) have several things in common. They do not work. Their children do not work at school (I know this for a fact) and cannot wait to leave and then spend their time doing nothing. Spotted the systematic failure here? There are a growing number of these dead heads in the UK and for the same stupid reason: the government gives them money NOT to work (as far as they are concerned). We call them CHAVs (council homed and violent) and it is a truism.
I, on the other hand realised early on that this was no life for me and soon got working at school, worked to become a professional engineer, worked to get ahead in the management structure of big companies and then started my own businesses. Notice the difference: I worked.
And if you think that I will be giving these work-shy bastards my money for the good of social inclusion then think again.
I will (and do) help youngsters to get a leg-up in their university work and I am pleased with the progress the first three have done.
“Give a starving man a rod and teach him to fish and you feed him forever, give him food and you feed him for the day” is a really good saying, Pepe for one should put it into practice.
No need for everyone to be rich, but I am sure both of you missed the point of the joke, albeit for different reasons.
What I agree with Guzz/Stevie is in the CONCEPT that poor people are poor only because of their choosing.
Nov 04th, 2013 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As DanyBerger pointed the other day (he was being biased about it by inflating the poverty to excuse the Argentine one as he is a kirchnerist, but that is another matter) there is a working class in Japan that is having problems to pay up the rent and eating properly. Yet Japanese unemployment rates are around 4,5% and nobody is begging in the streets nor committing crime and theft. That is a good example as to you can work hard play by the rules and still be poor.
My parents where poor during the 1980s and early 1990s. I was a kid back then and I don’t remember much.
You may have done well but remember that you grew up in a country or in an environment that enabled opportunities for you to develop into. If you would have grown up into a poor family in India, Nigeria, Haiti or Bolivia your chances would have being significantly reduced despite how hard working you may be. The question is how you enable these opportunities, is it necessary for the state to intervene, how much and in what cases and how…
ChrisR : Don't impose your Northern European , neo liberal and Anglo Saxon Calvinistic and frankly reactionary attitudes on the peace loving but idle bloggers of the River Plate .
Nov 04th, 2013 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It frightens the Trolls .
One of the UK’s previous PMs (can’t remember which one), from a bygone era, said “if you pay people to be poor, you will have a lot of poor people.”
Nov 04th, 2013 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It should be about giving people a way out of poverty, not maintaining them in it.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime
Nov 04th, 2013 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“if you pay people to be poor, you will have a lot of poor people.”
Nov 04th, 2013 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And if you slightly better the lot of the poor by weekly handouts,
you will have a lot of dependent voters.
The sad fact is , most of the people in the slums of Buenos Aires have no desire to better themselves .They live rent free in a shack they fashioned themselves, and steal electricity and water . Public transport is free , since there are no ticket collectors on the railways and someone in the family , or all the family , will qualify for a “ social plan ” ie welfare , so money comes in . They can make extra money being pickets or writing political graffitti on the walls (quite a big business ) , doing casual labour or thieving .Though some women will have worked as maids in the posh neigbourhoods of Barrio Norte , the idea of aspiring to that lifestyle is completely alien to them . Because of the history of rampant inflation , the concept of investing and saving is totally unknown to them .
Nov 05th, 2013 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some make it out , footballers , drug dealers , local politicians and the odd beauty who marries above herself , but they are viewed as lottery winners by the rest .
If multinational firms built a string of factories around Buenos Aires and paid European or US level wages , you would still find it hard to attract a workforce from amongst the poor , because they see no point in “ working for the man ” when they can hustle and get by .
Argentina will never be sorted out , plenty have tried . .
@50 GeoffWard2
Nov 05th, 2013 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Isn’t that what they call “El modelo”
Nice observations, UP.
Nov 05th, 2013 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not just Chavez' Modelo, Pugol ... everywhere where the poor outnumber the less poor it is a grand strategy for grabbing power and staying in power.
49 Anglotino
Nov 06th, 2013 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Alright clever clogs!
But in my version he gets a free fishing rod and lessons plus a balnced diet. :o)
LOL
Nov 06th, 2013 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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