MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
IDB financing for private sector 90 MW wind farms in Uruguay
The Inter-American Development Bank (IDB) approved a private sector loan for up to 132.6 million to partially finance the construction of the Carapé I and II wind farms in Uruguay. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesOoops Chris...
Nov 04th, 2013 - 05:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Did you invest? Still not too late...
I expect CFK will more than likely order the wind to stop blowing
Nov 04th, 2013 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@1 in Uruguays case, I'm not sure that wind farms are a bad idea,dependant as we are on imports of oil and indeed electricity from our fractious neighbours.
Nov 04th, 2013 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What we really need is an integrated policy of energy production using as many of our own national resources as possible
did they get permission from Argentina?
Nov 04th, 2013 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0QUE?
Nov 04th, 2013 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 1 Stevie
Nov 04th, 2013 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ha, ha. NO thank you. Like Uruguay I cannot afford windmills, the difference is I KNOW it.
@ 3 redp0ll
Sorry to disagree but these useless devices at most put out 13% of the rating plate power so that’s 11.7 Mw. That number is the highest ever recorded output from a western mill.
Have you ever looked at the “wind farm” just north of Ruta 12 on the way from Minas to Maldonado?
Just a couple of weeks ago I saw ALL the mills running, the first time ever in two and a half years.
Did you spot the wishful thinking: “which will contribute substantially to the success of the Uruguay project”. Mmmm, that means we will still be overcharged for this crap.
BTW, I don’t know who has provided the “postcard” but all the mills I have seen in the area have been triple bladed.
My fingers are itching on this one...
Nov 04th, 2013 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chris, your grumpiness is not letting you see a good deal.
Uruguay is going for 30%, regardless if you like it or not...
Chris. I have no doubt that your economics are correct, but we must be independent in power generation .
Nov 04th, 2013 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie has thing about eucalyptus and I am half inclined to agree with him,though I think pines are even worse
But most wood factories not only self supporting in producing electricity from waste products,but also sell excess power to UTE, whose charges I would agree are exorbitant, particularly as all hydro dam construction costs have been long since amortised.
The Aalto power station is run of river generation shared with our stroppy neighbour
the plants on the Rio negro are dependant on the water storage in the lake at Bonete.
It's our battery if you like
So let the windmills when they run take up part of the base load which would enable us to shut down some of the turbines at Bonete,thus enhancing the battery of cheap hydro power
By doing that there is a different economic equation I suspect
@ 7 Stevie
Nov 04th, 2013 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are supposed to be an engineer: act like one and look at the facts because the facts prove the windmills do not make money with your mythical “free electricity”, over their whole life they cannot even balance out the costs! The 30% will turb out like the battery buses – a non-event.
@ 8 redp0ll PT 1
“It's our battery if you like
So let the windmills when they run take up part of the base load which would enable us to shut down some of the turbines at Bonete, thus enhancing the battery of cheap hydro power
By doing that there is a different economic equation I suspect”
Yes, and that one doesn’t work either.
Please, without any intention to insult anybodies intelligence do not fall for this “base load” nonsense.
Windmills are EXTREMELY volatile in their output for a number of reasons:
1) the wind varies from moment to moment and the electronics controlling the equipment downstream from the variable transmission (VT) have a hell of a job trying to minimise the shunting in the system. Above a preset point the VT has to be altered to provide a smoother response for the electronics to live. If the response manages to provide the shift needed fine, if not things start to go awry;
2) when the wind increases in velocity (and the power – we are back to one half Mass x Velocity squared) the system has to restrict the rotational speed of the blades which it does with a severe change within the VT, sometimes together with an application of the brakes which are designed to fail-safe the over-speed risk. This usually works, if it does not over speed usually wrecks the VT. The US has employed a contractor to hopefully come up with a lubricant that can stand these very high pressures but no luck so far.
3) then the wind can suddenly drop (and don’t we know about that in Uruguay) and that causes an immediate shutdown of the load to prevent the blades from stalling. The load factors at this point are of course in reverse and the VT gets a caning (again).
Tourists LOVE a country that isn't putting out smelly exhaust, or kicking out natives like the Qom to frack.
Nov 04th, 2013 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hope the IDB microfi's some solar in Uruguay too!
Fine Chris, don't then...
Nov 04th, 2013 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You wish to base load with gas turbines. That's insane and far too expensive.
http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
Have a look at the current output in the UK. 1.7 GW (about 2 GW yearly).
Add another GW for embedded Wind farms.
That's about 35% of Uruguays total consumption 2012...
Query? - what is the average mean windspeed where these are being built? Was not aware that Uruguay was a windy country?
Nov 04th, 2013 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Windturbines work very cost effectively in places like the Falklands - The Scottish Northern and Western Isles, Southern Patagonia etc.
Because they need a WINDY CLIMATE!
In England I dont think they work very well - all the ones I have seen there are creeping around if moving at all!
PART 2
Nov 04th, 2013 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now contrast that with what the demand requires: relatively smooth operation to maintain safety on the transformers down the line – no problem if you are supplied by water turbines or large scale fuel efficient diesel alternator sets. Please do not overlook the fact that the level of the water to the turbines does not alter from one second or minute or even an hour and the turbines cope accordingly. Most big rotating machines must be operated smoothly and turbines are no exception BUT you want to turn them down to take “advantage” of the “output” of the windmills! Not such a good idea as you can see.
Now, to be fair, the more windmills the less the problems are because the wind does not blow smoothly all over the “wind farm” and there are more mills to spread the variations out. Then the wind ceases completely (we see that as well). Soon you have not a watt of power from these things AND your water turbines are running at a greatly reduced load or the diesels are not operating at all. That is when you get very low system voltages AND power factor problems presented to your customers and, if you are really lucky blown local transformers and fires. UTE are replacing the existing transformers with “harder” ones to help prevent the fires (I have seen three), yet another hidden cost of the use of windmills.
In the UK all the Generators have to operate main line alternators on “low load” but spinning at 3000 rev/min to provide frequency matching” to instantly pick the load up that these useless mills cannot handle – 24/365, but the windmill advocates don’t tell you that. The Generators are of course making VERY big profits from the “Green levies” which the Prat “Lord Prescott” knew was coming from his Kyoto Protocol.
I really would not object if the truth was given to people but it is not, not at all.
@ 11 Stevie: WHERE DID I SAY GTs? Are you ever going to quote reality and not RATING PLATES?
What is your solution for base load then, old man? Oil? Fossiles?
Nov 04th, 2013 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And no matter how you twist and turn it, have a look at UK current Wind power.
Medium average output of 3GW yearly (measured + embedded), and I'm being generous.
That's 35% of Uruguays current consumption.
@14 Stevie
Nov 05th, 2013 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Limitations of 'Renewable' Energy”
http://www.templar.co.uk/downloads/Renewable%20Energy%20Limitations.pdf
@ 14 Stevie
Nov 05th, 2013 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are an engineer, start acting AND thinking like one and “do not let your ego driven contrary opinion get in the way of science FACT”
AND how much as a percentage does this 3 GW represent of the whole hundreds if not thousands of these things in the UK? I prefer to rely on the STATUTORY figures that have to be released by the big six Generators: last year it was 7% and no matter how many more we have foisted on the countryside or in the sea it will NEVER get anywhere near to rating plate values.
Living in Sweden as you do it would not matter if we, who do live here, end up with over a thousand of these “marvellous” things all over the country, would it?
Please read this excellent paper, you will recognise yourself in the first few paragraphs.
@ 8 redp0ll
I seriously advise a reading of the paper referenced below, it is written in words that are easily understood regarding the science involved.
@ 15 agent999 EXCELLENT PAPER
http://www.templar.co.uk/downloads/Renewable%20Energy%20Limitations.pdf
@16 ChrisR.
Nov 05th, 2013 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is ironic that it was Stevie's link @11 that took me to this site in the first place !
Your problem is that you have a min requirement of 35 GW to begin with.
Nov 05th, 2013 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That does NOT change the fact that UK's current average output of wind energy would cover over 35% of Uruguayan base load.
@ 18 Stevie
Nov 05th, 2013 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please, please get your head on regarding the UK thing.
“That does NOT change the fact that UK's current average output of wind energy would cover over 35% of Uruguayan base load.” You say.
OK, let’s go with that as a fact.
Now, how many windmills are used to provide that miniscule load? Answer ALL OF THEM IN ALL THE WIND FARMS ON LAND AND IN THE SEA IN THE WHOLE OF THE UK!!
Get it now? They are an absolute disaster for the piss-poor output and they cost the taxpayers (of which I am one) an absolute fortune in “green levies”.
Yes Chris
Nov 06th, 2013 - 01:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0That Means we'll have to put some more up.
And that's what we're doing...
;)
@ 20 Stevie
Nov 06th, 2013 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0“That Means we'll have to put some more up.”
I have no idea how many windmills blot Uruguay at the moment, but to produce the miserly actual output in the UK at present takes all of the 4,366 built and operating so far.
The greenies in the government intend 13 GW by 2020 and have approved a FURTHER 10,000 mills (totalling 14,366) BUT they have cut the subsidies as well!
We don’t need to guess whether the 13 GW will ever be met, we can do the arithmetic based on present production FACTS. The answer is 16 GW!!!!
Ha, ha, ha. Now ALL they have to do is make, deliver, install and commission 10,000 new mills without the backlash that is presently growing in the population against the costs of these things AND cope with greatly reduced subsidies.
Any guesses anybody? Long, long shot indeed, I hope they fail miserably, just like the windmills fail to deliver what the salesmen promised the government.
So, Stevie, I bet YOU are quite happy to have 15,000 mills in Uruguay because YOU DON’T LIVE HERE. Have you ANY idea what a hypocrite you look like to everyone on MP?
Comment removed by the editor.
Nov 07th, 2013 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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